2Pac ft. Dr. Dre's "California Love"

♪ Shake, shake, shake, baby ♪ ♪ Shake, shake, shake, baby ♪ ♪ Shake, shake, baby ♪ ♪ Shake, shake, baby ♪ ♪ Shake, shake, baby ♪ ♪ You better ♪ Imagine Zooms through a talk box. (laughs) Like imagine like, "I don't have the report!" Like, you know, you can do all kinds of hard work. - Oh, hell yeah. (whooshing) - Luxury, I'm hype for today's show. We're talking about a rapper who's not only one of the greatest of all time, but arguably, one of the most complicated. It's honestly what I loved about him so much was that he could be an activist, and a playboy, and a self-proclaimed thug, yet to even apply these labels feels wrong and reductive. - That's right, Ciola. His shifting personas, combined with his untimely death, have made him one of the most endlessly debated figures in hip hop, not to mention one of the best-selling artists ever. He's sold more than 75 million records worldwide. And today, we're talking about a song that cemented his status as a global icon. - That's right, Luxury. When this track comes on, it never finds a dance floor empty. We're talking one song, and that song is "California Love" by Tupac featuring Dr. Drake. ♪ Out of the regal, push out of jail ♪ ♪ California dreaming to miss us ♪ ♪ That pull the scene of mirrored Hootsie screaming ♪ ♪ Feeding for money and out of the hole ♪ ♪ But life, but what's wrong, playin' what's y'all? ♪ (upbeat music) - I'm after writer-director, and sometimes DJ, Deala Riddle. - And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist, Luxury, aka the guy who whispers, interpolation. - And this is one song. - The show where we break down the stems and stories behind iconic songs across genres, and tell you why they deserve one more listen. - You will hear these songs, like you've never heard them before. And you can watch one song on YouTube and Spotify, while you're there, please like and subscribe. - So Deala, today we are talking about Tupac and California Love. When was the first time you heard this song? - I think the first time I heard it might have been, might have been when I got the 12-inch single. - Yeah. - Probably as a promo. - I was already DJing at this point. So anytime new vinyl came, you're like, ooh, you know, this might get the crowd going. And this one was sort of a hit from the very first time I put it on. It also has that thing that I love that, you know, is very DJ-friendly, like the California Love. (upbeat music) Like the California Love part of that is a perfect count-in. - Intro is on. - Yeah. - Yeah, there's some songs that have weird intro. So as a DJ, you've got to figure out, well, where am I going to bring this one in? This is one where you can literally hit stop on the other turntable. - That's nice. - And hit start on this one. And it just comes in with that perfect four count. - Dre with the DJ choices, man. You know, like it really happens across the catalog. He has all these choices about what sounds good with the bass and the frequencies. But also choices like that. - I have a little bit of an issue with Dre because he did the, yo Dre, kick in the bass. - And that one is a little bit off. So it doesn't come in right. But other than that, yes. - You just want to make sure you're still paying attention. - That's right. That's right. - Luxury, when did this song first come on your reader? - California Love video. I remember vividly being in a hotel with my parents. And the video came on. And it's a very, it's like such a memorable video. It felt expensive. It felt like a very big. - What a 90s video. It caused more of the most movies to do. - Totally. And it was production value. And it was like Mad Max theme. So that was the vibe of like the moment. - Jada Pinkett was supposed to direct it. I heard it was her concept. And yet she pulled out of the project. And the hype Williams is one of the first really big hype Williams videos. For those of you listening, not watching Chris Tucker, the actor, it's such an expensive video. Chris Tucker comes out and he says, he says, "And now I'd like to introduce to you the man of the hour." And then he yells something. - What did he say? - What did he say? - He said mustard mustard. I thought all these years that he said myself, like I thought he introduced myself, the man of the hour, myself. - We thought that was hilarious. And then this other character comes and pushes past him. I can hear now that he's saying, "Master," because that's the name of the character who he's introducing. But if you ever have to introduce some yourself. - Just say, myself. - Just to express myself. Was this sort of your first real exposure to Tupac? - I mean, yes and no. One of the funny thing is that I actually went to middle school with a girl who went on to Tam, to Mount Tam High School, where Tupac went. - Yeah. - And she was famous throughout our little friend group. Later on, we'd hear through the grapevine that she was like dating him. - Wow. - And so these little bits and pieces of like, basically 1989 information and grapevine information. I'm pretty sure she really did data. I'm not saying skeptically. But it was more of a legendary thing. And it was just like many phone tags removed from the actual story source. But our friend dated Tupac. It was super cool. So I was aware of him at a young age, because he was already famous for the digital underground connection. - Of course, yeah. - I mean, Tupac famous for dating the ladies. I will say that the one time, there's one time in life, and I'm so grateful for this night. There's one time in life, Tupac and I were in the same space. We were in the same room. - Okay. - Well, that beats my story. - Well, so I was, I was spending the summer of '96 in Los Angeles. I stayed with my sister. I was working for a, for an actor, famous actor. And I was staying at that actor's house while he was out of the country shooting a movie. So I had this insane house in the hills and like a little internship. But in fact, as I was out here, and I had plenty of free time, but I was under 21. And I had like the worst fake idea on the planet. And there was one night that I went by myself, because I used to go out by myself sometimes. I went out to the sunset strip. And I went up to the sky bar at the Mondrianne Hotel. And anybody who's ever been there, I don't think they're there anymore, but they had this gigantic, I don't think this predates those mattresses. - Okay. - But they had these gigantic flower pots that were right by the rope where they let you in. - Okay. - And I'm standing in this long, long line. And then one of the girls who like I knew in Los Angeles at the time, she was like, "Hey, come around the flower pot." So I snuck around the flower pot. - To get past all the ropes. - Like a fake, like a pure snake. Snuck around the flower pot. These things are huge. I snuck around the flower pot. And suddenly I'm in the sky bar. And like everybody's like such an adult, because you gotta realize, like I think I was like 19 or 20. Like everybody looks like a full-on adult. I couldn't believe that I was there. And I had only been there for a little bit before. Something like a pulse went through the room. Like everybody's like, "Ah, I sure, I sure." And two pop walked into the sky bar, which should night. - What? - And the comedian Eddie Griffin, who I guess was like performing across the street at the comedy store. - That's crazy. - And for the time they came in, it all just got really tense. And I don't know if it was because people were worried about, you know, violence, or if they were worried that two pop was gonna take their girl. But like, when I say-- - The frequency shifted, though. - Yes, everything you could just feel it. And cause like all of a sudden, even in this crowd at bar, like you felt like, "Oh my gosh, that's two pop." - Wow. - And Eddie Griffin, who by the way, was like a huge comedian at the time. - We've talked about this on the show. Like you talk with the prince. Your prince interaction. Didn't you have a prince interaction? - Oh, yeah, that was a deal. - There's a charisma. There's like a vibe for these superstars sometimes. He sends their presents. - You got this, it's like our breath exited our body and it all went to them. It's like a weird fee. But it was the one time I was in the same space as Pog. And I was already a two-pog fan. So I couldn't believe I was like, "Holy sp-- that's him." That's him. Like when you talk about stark quality. - Yeah. - And just the ability to just walk into a room and just control it. - Like pure charisma. - Cause the second he left, you felt like this great exhale happened in the room. - You were tensed the whole time. - No, sure. - Your butt was so much. - I could see other people like loosened up again. - Okay, yeah. - Because we're gonna get beat up or like I said, their girl wasn't gonna lose you. - I'm just watching all these videos and I'm like tense and stressed out. Cause he's a handsome man and he's gonna might steal my wife. - I don't know. - I'm very sure about what he's talking about. - Anything can happen. Just to get everyone who's listening on the same page. Tupac Amaru Shakur was born in New York City. His mother, Afini Shakur was a black panther. He grew up in New York City. Then Baltimore and moved to the Bay Area in high school, which again, which is where my loose connection to him comes into play. - By the way, can we point out now? It's so weird that the East Coast West Coast feud is between Tupac and Puffy. But he's born in New York. - Yeah. - He's from East Harlem technically. I always thought that was really interesting part of his story. - I mean, we know now to this day that like the beginnings of that was a little bit created for marketing purposes. And in fact, Tupac and Biggie seem to be. - Yeah, they were absolutely great. Marlon Lans and others have said, like these guys were absolute friends. Pock tended to try to reach out to those other rappers and artists from various regions. - They seem to genuinely admire each other. - Absolutely. - The footage of them, they seem very, it seems very real. - Tupac reached out to Bone Thunks. He reached out to Goodie Mob. Like anytime somebody like released music, they he was really into. It didn't matter where they were from. He would always be like, you know what? Like let's get together and make some music together. So yeah. - It's another thing beyond the scope of this podcast. But we're mentioning that things that got in the way. You know, we're definitely coming from outside forces. - Yeah, external forces for sure. - Listen, this man was multi-talented. He took acting classes. He took poetry, jazz, ballet. He was in theater productions at his school. There's like a theater teacher who talks about one of the best of fellows he's ever seen with when he gave a reading at age 17. - Wow. - Yeah. - And his rap career begins in Ernest in Oakland when he goes to a poetry class run by a woman named Layla Steinberg, who later becomes his mentor and first manager. - Yeah, that's really interesting. It was actually Layla who helped Tupac get his first deal with Atron Gregory, the manager of Digital Underground. Let's hear a bit of his recording debut in 1991 with Digital Underground on this song called Same Song. - That's the fame. People change when they live their life hot. Same song. Can't go wrong if I feel the nice guy. - Claim it fame. Must have changed. Now that we've been changed strong. - I remember him still the same. - Why? - 'Cause it's the same song. - By the way, the best part of that is that Humpty Hum calls him too. (laughing) Short for two. He was like, "Yeah, dude, that's gonna be your happy day." - They haven't figured out pockets. - Yeah. could have gone either way. By the way I have been rocking my brains like all around the world of the same old song that feels like an older song but I have not been able it's not on who sampled really are you is that no absolutely is that an older song that you're aware of like a 70 song or a 60 song yeah I don't think that's interpolation one song nation if you know the answer find us in the comments you always do so in 1991 two-pack released his debut solo single Brenda's got a baby which looks at the harsh reality is being a team mom it's pretty heavy stuff for a debut earlier I mentioned that there are many sides to two-pack many faces you know there's the socially conscious two-pack you know who's like the voice of the voice list so to speak you hear this two-pack on songs like keep your head up here mama you're always with the black queen and the posher misrelease changes it's hard not to feel like there's an obvious influence from his mom being a black panther right everything that she went through and everything that he saw and heard it just growing up with that group of people in his house and their whole lives were devoted to the cops so his father was a black panther to Billy Garland who doesn't sound like he was really involved in pox life after I guess 1976 but you know I think all that you know that kind of environment is what really helps shape this world yeah and it's it's there at an early age there's this incredible interview when he's out mountain high school age 17 and he talks about the influence that his mom had on him let's watch a quick clip my mother taught me three things respect knowledge search for knowledge is an eternal eternal journey that's like my aunt cut the line 360 degrees per hour knowledge always and and she taught me to not be quiet to if there's something on my mind speak it like it worked I can't hold the job but I just quit my job today actually because I wanted to come and do this and it would let me so you just quit you quit roundtable pizzas in strawberry village right there my my my school bus went past that every day when I was a teenager I knew exactly he worked at the roundtable he's from okay first of all he's from marine city my school bus went to the marine city stop and like there was a there was a incredible flea market it was like exciting for teenage me to go to the flea market at marine city so everything about two pox like this part of his life at least it's like really when I watch the footage and I know where he is yeah and I know that this girl that I knew from middle school might have been dating him during that interview who knows it's so interesting to kind of have that connection it's peripheral as it is it kind of makes it even more powerful you could have been two but I could have been you could have been what I'm trying to say like John Lennon with the whole Jesus thing I I'm very proud of the youth in two pocket pretty much how I feel right now well look although he never abandoned this activist lens it was actually the charismatic playboy puck that got him his first billboard hot 100 hit with I get around you hear this park on so many hits like how do you want it all about you let's hear a little bit of a deeper cut here's what you phone them that song obviously sampling the time seven seven ninety three eleven so there's another layer of two poku I want to talk about and that's the death obsessed gangster park I first noticed this darker side of him on his track pain which is one of my favorite songs of all time pain from the above the rim sound track he also starred in the movie yeah it was interesting listening back to pain now he's wrapping as his character from that movie which is a drug dealer named birdie but it's time to go on pop with sort of take on that air if you know he starts inhabiting these roles it's almost like a a method actor who you know goes so deep undercover they forget that they're a cop no dear mama which is that one of the great documentaries that I think you know eliminated a lot of the other thing and part of its thesis is that it's inhabiting some of these characters and these roles that he starts to like blur the lines between being on screen and being off screen yeah and I feel like this song in particular pain at least for me as a as a casual listener at the time it's signal the transition that can be heard on later songs like ambitions as a ride on hell married and let's hear a bit of a song that he recorded with bone thugs is a little bit of a deep cap it is recorded around very close to the near the time of this death uh this is thug love it was interesting this is from a purely aesthetic point of view gunfire works in songs it really makes you put your fingers up in yeah I can help it go pop pop and it reminds me of m.i.s planes you mentioned the word faces before the many faces of Tupac and it had me flashing on you know the kind of comedy and tragedy masks and the thing is it's an existential question where does one end and where does one begin we're always kind of as humans putting on masks in different scenarios so if he's putting on a mask so to speak more so of a quote unquote gangster after he plays gangsters like but he's still Tupac the same Tupac in that 17 the video we saw in 17 that that person is one end where does the other begin but that question is true for everybody like actual gangsters and thugs are also sensitive people with you know love you know who won't love at the end of the day well it's funny that you should bring that up because in Tupac's you know it's he famously had thug life tatted on his torso but according to the park that stood for thug life stood for the hate you give little infants fucks everybody you know now this is probably a back renewal but you know that that park who's very like you know aware of like social injustice it's not like that park went away no but it was also like in a weird way oh I have to give people in this get because this is like at the height of gangster rap when this when he's coming out with a lot of this music it's almost like he had to do something else to get people to listen yeah yeah and then when they were in the door hey I'm gonna share all this other stuff I was just thinking the same thing maybe he finds a new opera like a new choice you know like there's one way to do it which may or may not in his mind feel like it's been working yeah because he's disappointed he talks about when he's his shock when who is it do caucus didn't get elected which is so charming he's like I really thought do caucus is going to win pop was really watching that Iowa caucus results but he's really he really is like paying attention to the stuff and it shocks him when the world continues to disappoint him so maybe there comes a point where he's like you know it's not working doing it this way maybe maybe that it's the classic Malcolm X versus you know Martin Luther King kind of dichotomy it's like you know that the king isn't working maybe maybe maybe try the Malcolm X it's a little bit of the public enemy like Chuck D always said I need a flavor flame there so that it would seem fun and seem like a party and then when while you're there I was gonna do some rapping but I love what you also said about pop being a person who wore a mask you could almost say he didn't wear a literal mask but he did wear the bandana backwards oh yeah and that sort of let you know which pop is coming but gave him some power but pop was he he was he was totally wearing he was an actor you know and by the way a very good actor he was excellent in juice he was excellent in poetic justice so many movies I actually think if we have any cinephiles listening go back and watch it's hard to believe this movie got made but go back and watch gridlocked I think gridlock is very underrated two pop and Tim Roth together on screen they have so much chemistry directed by Vandy Curtis Hall if you get a second watch gridlock and he synopses out there you know what don't watch the movie it's gonna you're gonna be afraid of it by definition I like TV movie suck I'm afraid of them so fast forward to 1995 you know two pod gets some broiled with this you know feud with bad boy records it's an insane time for two pod in some of the best and worst ways he's in prison for most of 95 but while he's incarcerated he had his first album today view at number one with me against the world then towards the end of 95 should night paid two pox $1.4 million in bail in exchange for a three album deal with death row records I remember when death row was at the corner of Wilshire and San Vicente here in Los Angeles that office had blood red carpets no joke I think we have a picture of it uh for those of you watching I heard nothing but horror stories about this office like are you saying the carpets were blood red to mask the actual blood like you say like what why is that bad it might have been towards a gig affiliation but it might have had a dual purpose all right now again you could actually slaughter no I mean like there was like a famous story about it like a musician I think he played violin on like some death row album he had been paid so he showed up at the office and there was like somebody having sex in the lobby like insane not really appropriate things happening at the corner of Wilshire and San Vicente but here's what I do know it was probably not the healthiest environment for a newly freed two pox fresh from you know prison and also beefing with a bad boy it was probably not the best environment for him to come out of prison and enter into it seems like it might have been fuel for the fire quite possibly and I'm gonna I'm gonna choose my words carefully on this topic and I agree with you the lesson but listen we're gonna take a quick break but when we get back we're gonna try and trace the origin of that iconic California love hook. It's not as simple as you think when we get back. Welcome back to one song. We're about to get into the stems of California love, which actually started off as a purely Dr. Dre's song. All right, so apparently when Tupac out of prison, he went to a barbecue at Dre's house. Dre showed him the completed beat, and by the way, at the time there would have been, I've heard up to three verses that Dre had completed, thinking it was gonna be his own song. He strips away two of them. And then Tupac went in the booth, laid down his verse in 20 minutes, and the rest is history. Okay, well, let's get into the stems. Yeah, I've recreated the basic beat here. Dre has talked about in a number of interviews over the years, in the NWA era. He would have been shopping using, I think a Yamaha FY77. At a certain point, he moved to the NPC 60 and the SP 1200. In this moment, I'm not sure whether he used one of those or if he had already moved to the NPC 3000, which definitely became his NPC of choice. Like literally in this moment, like in 1994, when it comes out into '95. So in some form, he chopped up a kick and a snare. And to my ears sounds like a hi-hat and a shaker coming from another source. This is what they sound like individually. You can hear in the chop that there's some percussion behind it. The snare sounds pretty clean, but I think there might be like a hi-hat in there too. Again, these are just as chops indicators that they came from samples. These aren't, to my ears, drum machine sounds. They may also be layered with an 808, another tool of choice for Dre in this era. Not sure. Not sure. These are best guesses. This is Luxury's best guess. And then there's a hi-hat, which as I mentioned, you can really hear the artifacts of the sample source, of some vinyl source. And it's got a little bit of swing in it. So again, as a lifetime of chopping, I can tell you, you hear a break beat or you hear a beat you want to use. You can take the whole thing holistically an entire loop if it's just like a kick snare beat. Like, you know, we've talked many times about classic breaks like funky drummer, et cetera, and peach the president. Or you can go in and do Marley Marl style, just chop out the individual pieces that you want to reuse. So in this case, I do believe we're getting these from different sources. But last but not least, I'm also hearing what sounds like a drum machine crash. This sounds like a 606 to me. Here is my best effort to recreate the beat. Let me know how close you think I've got. OK. I suck. I fucking nailed that. I fucking nailed it. OK, you crushed that. You know, right after I'm playing a beat, my mouth stops working. So the sentence was-- Dude, you're terrible to do in real time what an absolute genius prayed, man. And you did a freaking amazing-- The tightro walk of this show sometimes is very amusing to me. I'm like, how am I-- Oh, I got a whole blank thing. I'm like, this is insane. But that is my best effort to recreate the beat from California Love. I hope I got at least 70% of the way through. Dude, you got 75%. Oh my god. I got to see. Not to see minus. I appreciate that. OK. I'm sorry. You got a 83. Yeah, enough. Check this out. Let's play a little bit of the beat. [MUSIC PLAYING] California Love has this iconic riff. It's sort of like the defining quality of the song. It's a single bar loop that goes up the entire song. Yeah. It's a piano. I always said that, like, back when I used to DJ full time, like, I wanted to compile, like, a playlist or a compilation of, like, the hardest pianos used in hip hop of all time. There are a couple of songs where, like, the piano is just-- It's hard. Yeah. It's freaking ill-strength blues by Kooji Rap is an example of that. Like, I just-- it hits so hard that piano. And this song has a hard piano in it too. Hard piano in it. Correct me if I'm wrong. Does this song in California Love? Does it sample? The song in question would be Joe Cocker's woman to woman. Intrude Dre Form. This is the era where he's not sampling it. That's because you pay less money to clear it. That's why you don't need to clear both the publishing and the master you're only paying the publishing side of things, which means you're giving up publishing as we will be a little foreshadowing as we get to the splits a little bit later. No small thing for this song with a lot of repercussions. But here's the song that was interpolated. This is indeed Joe Cocker's woman to woman. And importantly, this is technically Joe Cocker with the Chris Stanton band from 1972. I'll get back to that in just a second. Let's listen first to the source. I mean, what kind of music would you say Joe Cocker is? I mean, that's funky. That's fun music. Crazy. And he's also like, he's a white British, but he's a blue singer. But he's a blue singer, right? Exactly. I mean, he's the one who did the Beatles, right? He did. A little help from my friends. Open it up. Open it up. Open it up. Which was a couple of years. And like this parody of one of the funniest job, publishing clips of all time. But I feel like Joe Cocker's got one of those great, busy, alcohol-drenched voices. Yeah. That just sounds really cool. That's woman to woman. And so the Chris Stanton band parts important because it's actually played by Chris Stanton as a piano player, kind of an unsung hero, R.D.P. of this whole song. For sure. Because he's written and performing that hook. He's before the part that got you. Yeah. That's what we say about Sting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's played the piano in the original, which was then re-created by a mysterious force. We don't really know who played the piano. Could have been Dre. Could have been one of his- One of their in-house death row. That's right. Musician. That's absolutely right. But he's a session player who played with the who and Brian Ferry. And he's been touring with the Eric Clapton band for the last 20 years. So like a renowned background player basically, who's known in the industry to all the cats. Right. But like- A journeyman. Not a name necessary that you would know. Yeah. And by the way, that wasn't the first hip hop tune to like re-used tune. No. No. I feel it. You're going to talk about Nicknack Paddywack. Exactly. Let's play a little bit of EPMD Nicknack Paddywack. This is from 1989. Maybe this is where Dre had heard it used before. Maybe not. The capital D, the O that C, the A, K, A, A. The B, the M, the D, and me. The E to the D to the O, to the U, to the B, to the L, to the E. It's Tom P. That's a lot of spelling in there. I'm so glad you bring this up because EPMD is so important to the development of like sampling in hip hop. And I feel like they don't always get their props for it. Eric Sherman is an absolute genius. Perish Smith. But EPMD was the first to a lot of really deep-cut samples that got sampled about five or six later by other artists. And it blew up bigger for them. So I'm going to recreate that sample to the best of my ability with my tiny little keyboard, 25 keys in my little lap over here. So I'm feeling a little constrained. Okay. First of all, let me just say these are parallel fourths playing three chromatic notes in a row. So you're hearing simultaneously is. And also. And together there. But the question is, to my ears, they sound like a fourth apart. Where the G, which is what the key of the song is, is below a D. But it could very well be in the reverse, which would sound like this. Which one sounds more right to you. Versus. I'm kind of hearing the G on top, which would be. That's what I'm hearing too. So we're going to go with that one song nation, unless you strongly disagree. In which case, we would love to hear about it in the comments. I like your face when you play that. Do you like my tongue doing that? What's going on with the bass in the song? And because to me, to my ears, to my DJ ears at the time, I was aware of death row using like live, you know, live musicians in the mix. Is this a song or is it a live musician? So this is one of these episodes where we have to have a little bit of a caveat about names. Because first of all, two things. One, in the credits, there aren't any names to be as performers outside of Drey, Tupac, and Roger Troutman, who we will be doing a little moment about a little bit later. But as far as who's actually performing the sounds that you hear in the mix. We know that they are interpolated and not sampled. But I'm not sure who is re-performing them on every instrument. I will in one moment for one of the sounds. I have a theory. I will say that in the credits for this song on Discox, you'll see a couple of names. One is Sean Barney-Rubble, Thomas. What an amazing name. It's such an amazing name. He's a collaborator on a handful of Drey tunes. I do think though that that is just for the remix. It's one of those things or in the credits for the record, it just lists everybody. And doesn't correlate a name to an instrument on a song. I'm pretty sure though he's not in this one. Okay. So we're not sure who played the bass line. But we do know that it sounds like this. And this was a fun surprise for me. I thought that this was mapping exactly to the rhythm that we know from the iconic piano line. But it's slightly different. So I'll recreate the part right here. That first note is so important and that's the one that surprised me. I thought it was going to recreate the chromatic. It doesn't have the G flat in it. And that gives it that sort of tension. Yeah, I was gonna say leads into the resolution of the G. It's actually makes it a little bit harder, which would make it more hip-hop-friendly. So that was one of my favorite surprises when I went into the stems. One of my favorite parts of the song is what's going on with the horns. Who's playing the horns? I don't know who's playing the horns and up until I saw an interview with a foreshadowed soon to be unsung hero of this episode, J. Flex. Okay. I thought that they were synthesized horns. Oh, really? I thought they were real horns. You know what? This has been a fun episode for me because the rabbit hole, the deep dive into, like, trying to figure out how this got made in by who led me to all these deep-cut interviews. So there's like a minute 58 of an interview with J. Flex. He mentions almost in passing, quote, "Then they brought the horns in." So I was like, "Okay, I guess they have live horns on this." So they're live horns? According to J. Flex at Minute 52 of this interview. I got to say, that isn't surprising because to, again, to my entrain ears, I thought I heard actual horns. I thought you were going to tell me, "No, these are the synthesizers." Here's the thing, too, in 1995. What I'm about to play you is a 2025-2026 VST, basically, the synthesized version of horns that you can play, which comes from sampling live horn players. It's in the computer. The technology has evolved to the point that they sound like real horns in 1995. Probably didn't have that. Remember when we did the "Boys to Men" episode where this is a horns? They sound like that. They sound a little bit dinky. Well, with Jimmy Jam was talking about horns sometimes. In the 90s, synthesizer horns still sounded like a little fake sound. Swing out, sister. It sounds like swing out, sister. So that makes sense to me that this would be live horns. I have recreated them to the best of my ability, and here they are. [trumpet] And I keep hearing now that held first note, that long or first note that gives it, that is such an important part of the motif that runs through again. The entire song is just one four bar loop. Now that said, the horns do come and go for punctuation. Mark's essentially throughout it. But you're still getting that long or first note. I'm now hearing the more deeply we dive into the song, how crucial that is to giving it a big part of its power, I think. Absolutely, and what I'm realizing now from the use of live horns, even though we can't find out exactly the names of the players, but the use of live horns, this music video that was probably $2 million or something like that, like when you put money into the art, sometimes it makes it better. Sometimes it makes it more memorable. And I think that one of the problems that we have in society today is that we think we can short change the arts essentially and spend the bare minimum on everything. And that's still going to be just as good, and that doesn't seem to be the case. If he had used synthesizer horns in 1995 and they just shot a video at an alley, it wouldn't have the same impact that it has today. Absolutely agree. And to your point, when we get to the songwriting splits by the end of this, you'll see that no expense was spared in the making of this song, interestingly, because we're not done with the interpolations. We've got a couple more to come, and ultimately it cost a pretty penny. So there's one more important part of the music track, which is there's a single stab, which is kind of ghostly sounding. You may or may not have even noticed it, because it's a little subliminal, but here it is. That's actually what makes it sound west coasty for whatever reason. Yeah, I think you're right. There's something kind of ghostly about it. It sounds like that kind of mogey sound that he's using on the other songs. Yeah, what is that? So I'm not exactly sure what instrument that is or what synthesizer, but I do know that there's someone who claims to have played it. Okay. Again, the fun of this episode, all the rabbit holes. It's the fog of war. The fog of war led me to Chris the glove tailor, who on a live from the basement interview says, "It's a part that I created. One part, one little cord, can I get my eighth of a percent for that?" So he's uncredited as a writer. And it doesn't sound like he was necessarily paid. We don't know, though. He might have been in house getting a salary or something like that, but we do know that Chris the glove tailor says that that's his contribution. Okay. That single cord that wasn't part of the sample that he added to the song, which we agree is pretty iconic. Yeah, we like that part. We definitely like that part. And just for a little more shine on unsung hero, Chris the glove tailor, he was in the 1984 movie "Break in" DJing for Iced Tea. He wrote the song "Reckless" for that movie. Get up, everybody, get on the floor. Cut, let's curve over. All right, so let's get into the lyrics. Let's start with the chorus. I was fine. Is that Roger Troutman talking in between a little bit? Yeah, it's so cute. Let me give you another one. It's so cute, right? The cutest thing ever. We play this game often on the show. Is it vocoder, talkbots. Obviously, I think this is too early for auto-tune. Yeah, where are we getting this robot voice from this thing? Sure. Well, we're going to talk about Roger in just a second. But first, let me answer your question. A talk box is what we're hearing. Okay. And the difference between a talk box and a vocoder. Because they're very similar. But the easy way to think about it is that so the talk box, you see the tube. Yeah. The tube directs the note in from the singer's mouth to a connected instrument. In this case, with Roger Troutman from Zap, he tended to connect it to a mini-mogue. And for this song, though, he's using the Yamaha DX100. But what that means is that he's making the instrument sound like the human voice, which is the opposite of a vocoder, which makes the human voice sound like an instrument, or more like a robot. Or one ends, and the other begins, is challenging. Go back to our DAF Punk episodes, our two-parter. Because there are moments in, I think, that there's a mix of vocoder and talkbox and get lucky. But they're very similar. But we know because Roger Troutman is the king of the talk box. He's sort of the pioneer of the talk box. He is one of the pioneers. One of them, yeah. Let's just say that Peter Frampton did it first in 1976. And in his case, he's using the same device of a tube, but it's connected to the guitar. So you can connect it to any instrument. That's very fun. Let's watch a little bit of Roger Troutman using his famous talk box. Please roll like that. This fascinating is that I'm almost more fascinated by his all-gold outfit. That was insane. For those of you not already watching us on YouTube, watch us on YouTube, because that outfit is incredible. And I just don't even know if they make that. And let's give a little shine to Roger Troutman and to Zab. Because not just a unsung hero of the song. By the way, he's one of the listed features on the song. Go forget it. He's featuring its two-pop featuring Dre and Roger Troutman. Oh, gee. Oh, gee. So Zab is the name of his entity that he was in with his brothers. Four Troutman brothers from Dayton, Ohio. They are foundational to funk. So much. So foundational to great songs. We have to do a Zab episode at some point, because Zab is just. It's incredible. Absolutely. This incredible music, incredible catalog. That song that we just heard that was. He was just doing a rendition of more bounce to the ounce, which is produced by Bootsie Collins. Yeah. George Clinton actually signed them. And their first record came out, produced by Bootsie. So there's a connection right there to the godfather, the pee-funk mothership right there. Yeah. Which is another West Coast connection, obviously. Yeah. So there's a lot in the mix here of references and sources. Dre was a huge fan of Roger Troutman. And you know, really wanted to get him on a track. And this is what they figured out how to do. So many great songs out of Zab. I'm talking about. I want to be your man, computer love. And so rough, so tough. What is the relationship between so rough, so tough, with the song we're talking about today, California Love? It's so interesting. How many different ways Roger Troutman and Zab are part of the song? So interestingly, the actual chorus to the song, which is California, knows how to party, is an interpolation of a song called West Coast Pop-Lock by Ronnie Hudson and the Street People. Why am I saying this after you ask me about Zab? We'll find out in just a second. But first, let's listen to West Coast Pop-Lock from 1982. I can't pop-lock, I can't pop-lock from-- You were pop-locking. I can imitate pop-locking, but I cannot pop-lock. To the listeners, if that song sounds familiar West Coast Pop-Lock, it's because the musical bed of it is supposed to sound like so rough, so tough. Let's listen to that. So right now, keeping your head-- there's a lot of information going on here. That's clearly the source of the interpolation, potentially, one of the sources of the song, California loves chorus, but we're also, at the same time, pointing out that the music for that song from 1982 is a replay of this song by Zab from 1981, so rough, so tough. So tough. Those guitars are important. It's the walking baseline. It's the groove. It's the guitar part. These are all staples of fun. By the way, John Hussin didn't sample it. Like, if he does a replay, he does an interpolation. It's slightly different what he does on his song. Yeah, and it's absolutely. It's one of those things where it's like, it's super close. Oh, trust me. And it's, I think, part of the reason why when we get to the credits, we'll see some familiar names. Sure. Yeah. But I was just saying, it's like the difference between bounce rocks, skate, and good times by chic. These songs sound extremely similar. Yeah, and not for no reason. [BLANK_AUDIO] was an intent to recreate it basically. Exactly. And I love the idea of how West Coast pop lock came about because this idea for the song actually came from Ronnie's manager. He suggested Ronnie write a song inspired by the pop lock dance craze that was going on on the West Coast and specifically in the communities of Compton and Watts. So Ronnie. I love this story. Ronnie literally went down to do research. He lived for those big attention. He lived at the corner of Washington, La Braia. And he went south of the tin. He went down to Compton and Watts. He befriended some some locals, you know, he thinks there was some gang affiliation there. But they basically took him on a wild night a parting to show that like, hey, you know, we can have fun and you know, he saw the roles, Royces, you know, that had like people inside doing pop lock and getting out into the street. And that experiences what shaped the song as a genuine celebration of the life that they were living in. You know, Ronnie tell it, you know, he was still able to always go back down there and hang out there because they're like, oh, you did West Coast pop. Hey, that was actually, you know, putting a positive light on our community. So there's another wrinkle to the story. A wrinkle to the story. Listen, a rabbit hole within a rabbit hole for this episode. I went down to Discox Rabbit Hole because a gentleman who goes by Magic Fraga, that's his Discox user name, claims that he wrote a song called Magic's Wrap in 1981 and that it sounds like this. Okay. Listen. The what is this song? So I have never heard this song about like, no one has, listen, let's take a step back. We don't usually trust wiki dinners and Discox editors like Magic Fraga sounds like. This is for fun. This is absolutely a bonus round. Just for fun. I'm pretty sure that this is, first of all, it's a record that I don't think ever came out on wide release. Listen, this is a whole Discox saga, which is wonderful. Okay. So I, can I just say? Okay. I think that in the late 70s, early 80s, there were so many people pressing vinyl records that it's really hard to ever know. You can make it on your own, just go to a recording studio and then pay someone to press the vinyl. Yeah. We did a minimal amount of research. And we found this picture for him, Fraga, which actually, it leads to more questions than an answer. Like, who is Sergeant Pepper? Why does he look like he's in that bad BG's Beetle movie? And he was rapping in 1981, but here's also the one more thing I'd add to this is, we talked a little bit about this on the Little John episode, which is that sometimes there are these, you know, chance and, for the lack of a better word, we don't call them Larry's, but with these chance to sort of percolate up from the streets. They percolate up from the streets or from schools, yeah. And Fraga heard it and put it in his song and maybe Ronnie Hudson also heard it and put it into a song. And neither one necessarily, you know, set down a sheet of paper and wrote this out. 100% agree. We don't. It's like a street joke. We will never know who first said chicken or the egg and a million versions of that kind of thing. They're just kind of in the ether. And then so into that culture, culture, that's right. Not even based on justice picture. Something tells me that this, this, this chant, this, this style was probably on the streets first. In fact, DJ Quig said that he was performing a Mass and Square Garden. And he started doing that West Coast pop lock chant. And Dre was there. And Dre was like, oh, yeah. That's good. Gotta use that. Right. Right. Speaking of Dre, let's hear Dre's verse on California Love. On the mission for them. Greens. Lean me money, making machines, serving things. I've been in the game for 10 years, making rap tunes. Every since Honey's was wearing sassoon. Now it's my favorite part of that whole verse is what he says. Which we know what that is. Those are jeans. Those are jeans. Like tight jeans from 1979. Massassoons. Here's what's crazy about that line to me. Hip hop was young enough where the idea that you had been in it for 10 years was insane. It was like, what? You've been in rap for 10 years, and now we're like at a time like rappers are in their 50s and 60s. So it doesn't seem so weird. But at the time to be in the rap game for 10 years was unheard of, especially if you're operating at the level that Dr. Dre was operating at. So earlier, we alluded to there's another unsung hero, another YouTube rabbit hole where there is a gentleman called Jay Flex. So in an interview on the art of dialogue, Jay Flex has said that he wrote that line. He wrote all three of the verses that in fact were originally in this tune. And he wrote, he was originally a Dre song. So he wrote and recorded those three verses and then Dre went in and wrapped over them, like basically, you know, mapped to what was on the guide vocal essentials. A lot of hip hop producers at this time are going to be those writings for when it comes time for them to step. Exactly. I'd very common for vocalists to do this similar thing. So great interview, I would recommend on art of dialogue with this gentleman, Jay Flex. Jay's ghost writer on a bunch of tunes. One of my favorite anecdotes though that he talks about for this song is he mentions how when Roger Troutman came in, he was wearing a yellow suit and he would, and he talks about how Roger Troutman, I mentioned the talk box works, it's got this tube. So occasionally in between takes, he would take the tube out and swing it around the studio and they would all need to duck underneath this talk box tube. Is that because of the spittle or the tube itself? The tube itself is like maybe 10 and 15 feet long, so he would just spin it around for kicks, just like free people out and then they'd off the duck underneath Roger Troutman's tube behavior. That's some punk behavior. Well, speaking of Roger Troutman, he does come back with one more iconic part. He doesn't just sing the chorus. He has the post chorus. I mean, it's so good. It's so good. I got to believe that he goes into the studio and he records like all those different layers, you know, it sounds like he's got one in primary, and then he's got kind of like at least one higher false. I think he's doing a couple of takes, but also it should be said that the way the machine works, the way a talk box works is that what you're performing, in other words, with your 10 fingers, is what you're hearing. Imagine zooms through a talk box, like imagine, like, I don't have the report like you do all kinds of harmonies. Oh, hell yeah. Now we're talking to a pop, one of the greatest MCs of all time, and I kind of want to just let the lyrics speak for themselves. Let's hear a little bit to Pak Shakur. Only in Cali will we ride it not rally to live and die in LA we wear Chuck's not ballet. That's right. Justin loves to catch his suits and ride is what we do blossom but have caution we can lie with other proofs. His voice has such raw power. Yeah. Until you hear it isolated like that, don't realize like how emotionally like he just gets you amped. You wake right up. You listen everywhere. It's preacher like. It's totally like a preacher. It's totally like a preacher and I can just remember at the time hearing it, I was not a fighting kid, but it made you feel like if anybody steps to me right now, it's gonna be on them. It's going to contrast to sort of the more laid back. And it's not snoop, right? It's sort of the opposite of snoop, right? We have this California love, we have this drake connection, but then he's come and bringing in different energy. Like, I like the fact that you could hear him like breathe in. Like, you know, like his, even his breath feels aggressive. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. And then when he spits it out, it's like, give it a bomb beat for dry like it's like boom boom bomb. Yeah. It's crazy how much just the human voice can be used differently. You're right. It's so not snoop or slick rick. It's aggressive not even in like the the Chuck D style. I think you know it's it's it's preacher like and it just gets the people. It's so it's so authoritative. He's such a leader. He was such a leader. That's all of everything we've been listening to and watching and like the earlier interviews even even at 17 years of leader. There's a leadership quality that he has which is in in his language, but then it's also in his voice. - I hadn't really thought about it, but literally he starts off, "Hell, Mary, follow me!" (laughing) So yeah, I think you're right. There's so much potential there, unfortunately, dead by 25, which is funny, 'cause I hear that voice and I still hear somebody who's older than me. - Yeah, right. - But I had 25 years old. - Yeah, at this age, like thinking of 25-year-olds, it's like, it's hard to imagine, like, I don't remember feeling that confident at that age personally. - No, no, when I go back and watch interviews with him and stuff like he has a way of just sitting in a chair that's compelling. Like, you're just like, "Oh God, this man has so much confidence." Okay, so now that we've heard all that luxury, tell us how this blitz break down on California Love. Buckle up my friend because there's a lot of people that got paid on this song and interesting who didn't get paid. That's good. We like people to get paid. Let's do it. So, starting with the interpolation of the Joe Cocker song "Women to Woman," Joe Cocker and Chris Stanton from that song, are also cut into California Love to the tune of 20% each. Okay. So right there, 40% of the song going to Cocker and Stanton for the hook, for the dun dun dun dun dun. Makes a lot of sense. I think that's worthwhile. West Coast pop-lock also gets a fair share, 25%, which is shared between Ronnie Hudson and his co-writer Michael Hook. So they get 25% for the chorus. We're 65%. We only got 35 left. 35 left and there's a number of names. and not all of them get cut into the math of this 100% pie because the other 35% goes to the Trotman Brothers, Roger and his brother Larry. So, Pock gets nothing off of this. Pock and Dre are listed as songwriters in the public credits with zero next to their names, which is really interesting because it means that by the time they were done clearing all their interpolations, there wasn't anything left for themself. What's nice about that, this is I believe Pock's best commercial performing single. Now he would have been paid, probably on the master side for royalties, depending on the nature of his record contract or his deal with Dre. There's some money. that they are making from a song, and of course any sort of live performance, et cetera. But the publishing is all taken up with all of these interpolations. So interesting. Luxury, what do you think the legacy of California love is? It is such an iconic song for our state, for the Golden State, for the place where we live. You know, it's a lot of hometown pride, a lot of home state pride, and I love that it's encapsulated in the song, and especially given who the players are on the song, the people who made the song and the song's legacy with all the layers as we've been discussing with the interpolations and the use of other things. I agree. And so funny. In my mind, it enters the pantheon of great songs about places. You know, you would never, you know, from California's soul, California love some of the songs by the doors. Like this song definitely reeks California. You wouldn't put together a definitive playlist about the West Coast and leave this song off. But I think there's so much, in terms of legacy, there's so much I want to say about Tupac, but for this song in particular, it's the one that launched him into full blown superstars. You know, it's what prevents him from just being the guy who did Dear Mama. There are a lot of people with hits in the 90s who have never risen to the level of Tupac Shakur. And I think that because this one never finds a dance floor empty, it actually helps preserve Tupac in the mass consciousness, you know, I mean, like if, if all it saws were like super serious and earnest, well, then it would be easier to forget him. I feel like it's like maybe the most widely known across the population, like the general population, not the, not the heads necessarily for the fans. I agree. I think that if Marvin Gaye only had like his slow songs and not like a, got to give it up, you know, it'd be easier to forget that he had been there. And I think that this song, because it gets people to this day to get up and dance, is in some ways more of a celebration of his musical legacy than if it had not been there tragically, just nine months after the release of this song, Tupac was gone. But what's wild is how massive his career became after his death, seven poshemous albums, a Grammy, more than a dozen documentaries, the Coachella hologram, who knows how many books and articles there are about this guy. Like I said, we need a whole podcast off on the side to talk about Tupac. I don't know of any other artist whose legacy stretches quite as far as Tupac's and thanks to artists like Kendrick Lamar, I think future generations will know him too. We have future generations carrying that torch. I don't think Tupac or California love is going anywhere anytime soon. Okay, luxury is time for one more song. This is the segment where we share a deep cut or a hidden gem with you, the one song nation and with each other. T yellow, what's your song today? Mine song this week. I'm going to keep it West Coast. There's a song on the radio right now called Rockin by Shoreline Mafia. And it's so freaking cool. It sounds like old school West Coast. So when I heard of the radio, I was like, I liked that somebody was like going back to this sound. So let's hear a little bit of Shoreline Mafia's Rockin. I love that song. So old school. It samples funky little B by Connie. That's awesome. I mean, like a wonderful way to throw back the vibes, like when you're playing that on like a Sunday afternoon, the sun is like, you know, still out here in LA vibes. It's got that Q 80s electro kind of feeling. Absolutely. Yeah. And I like the use of the sample. Like the sample comes back like every four bars or so. I love it when people do that because it makes it sort of like a small in song chorus. There's like a subgenre of a lecture, as just as we're talking about, it's like I love a lecture. I like the hard beats. I love the, you know, everything from the crowd work and planet rock. But then there's the sort of cute subgenre where you have these female vocalists. I have so many songs I'm thinking of now. Shannon, let them music play. Might be my favorite. Absolutely. Shannon, listen to the show. Shout out to you. And let's hear just a little bit of Connie funky little B just so that people can hear the original. They've all got the same sort of craft work B. And then you can do so much on top of that. Am I right? This is cute. This is cute. Electro. It's a funky little bit. Electro, what's your one more song? So I've been enjoying this new phase of life, whereas the case here at WDJ, I'm actually doing a rock show after being like a disco and funk DJ and practitioner for a decade plus. Like they gave me a post punk show. So I'm having fun finding some new or more recent music to kind of throw in the mix along with my, you know, post punk classics for wire and gang of four. This is a band called Ambreening Girls out of Brighton, the UK. Right on. The record is called Who Let The Dogs Out? The song is called Love. Trello, it's nothing more than the wrong who to die on. Trobebo, together, it's with the best of intentions, but me or the baddest who see you commit me off. A full day. Turns her back, baby. I love it. So what I like about that is that she's singing aggressively. Yeah. The aggression is way better on, on a song that it isn't real. It's kind of preaching a little bit. It's kind of like two pocketed a little bit, but there's a little bit of like, this is what Brighton anger. Yeah. So she's so in Brighton love. Yeah. And the guitar's had a little bit of a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Z. This is LaBreeny. It's LaBreeny. It's called Lambreeny Girls. Lambreeny Girls. Lambreeny Girls. Yeah. That song is called Love. It was one of the few I could play with that explicit lyrics in it. I will say another song from this record, which I can't say is Blankology 101. It's like the key track. Okay. Go check that one out. Lambreeny. I'm not gonna say the C word. Lambreeny, but you. Lambreeny, but this song was called Love. That song was called Love. Perfect. The other one is called Blankology 101. Well, I loved it. I love it. Definitely going to go out and buy that one today. As always, if you have an idea for one more song, you can find us on Instagram and Tiktok. You can find me on Instagram at DialloDIA, LLO, and on Tiktok at Diallero. You can find me on Instagram at LUXXURY, and on Tiktok at Luxury XX. And you can follow our podcast on Instagram and Tiktok at One Song Podcast, for exclusive content. You can also watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube, and Spotify, and on Apple. Just search for One Song Podcast. We'd love it if you'd like it. Subscribe. Also, be sure to check out the One Song Spotify playlist for all of the songs we discussed in our episodes. You can find the link in our episode description. And if you've been at this far, you're officially part of the One Song Nation. Show us some love. Give us five stars. Leave a review and send this episode to a fellow music fan. It really helps keep the show thriving. Luxury helped me in this thing. I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, musicologist, and every Friday night from 10 to midnight on KCRW, KCRW DJ Luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ, and sometimes KCRW listener Diallo Riddle. This is One Song. We will see you next time. This episode is produced by Melissa Duan yes, our video editor is Casey Simonson, mixing by Michael Hartman, and engineering by Eric Hicks. This show is executive produced by Kevin Hart, Mike Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric Eddings, Eric Wyle, and Leslie Guam.