Speaker 1People might initially come to see you for, you know, like your bio, but usually they'll stay around because of you, because your content and specifically your personality and like personal content is interesting. So that's why I put that first. Welcome to the Profitable
Speaker 2Graphic Designer Podcast. My name is Katie Sandel, and this episode was brought to you by Aventive Academy, an online business education platform that helps brand graphic and web designers get more clients, increase their pricing and build a profitable design business. We have online programs, courses and templates that you can use and you can find out more about us. You can find out more about starting and growing your freelance design business at AventiveAcademy.com. Could you introduce yourself and let our listeners know who you are, what you do and who you help? Hi, guys. So happy to be
Speaker 1here on the Profitable Graphic Designer Podcast. My name is Alyssa Morales. I'm originally from Louisville, Kentucky, which is the land of bourbon and now live in New York City. I live in Brooklyn, where I've been for 12 years since I came from Kentucky to go to NYU. So I'm the owner of Nerve Client Studio, which is a sales agency. Specifically, we do done for you sales, which is a new term. So if you haven't heard it, that's OK, because I made it up. And yeah, we. We made a brand new kind of sales offering. We do done for you sales where we actually find leads and opportunities and close them. So we make sales for you. And I work with all different kinds of free and bold business owners, many of which are queer or female owned business owners. So that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 2Yeah, I love that. So today we are talking all about how designers can make money on Instagram. And to start out. Why do you think Instagram is a good platform for freelance designers who want to grow their businesses? And I will tell you later on that I've never gotten any clients on Instagram.
Speaker 1Really? OK, well, I'm going to make a convert out of you. Before before I go into in-depth about designers on Instagram, I will say just as a little bit of background that, guys, I started my business, which has had many iterations. I started my business back in 2017. Which don't kill me if I get this wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the year that stories came out. It's either 2016 or 2017, but I started my business pretty much solely on Instagram. I started as a freelancer, then a marketing agency, then a business coach, sales coach, and now a done for you sales agency. So I've pretty much worked on all sides of sales. But when I started my business in 2017, I started as a freelancer, then a marketing agency, then a business coach, sales coach, and now a done for you sales agency. But when I started my business in 2017, I pretty much only had Instagram. So no website, no email list, nothing. And within Instagram, stories were new. People were still testing them out, but I really went for it for whatever reason, probably because I can talk to like my wall 24 hours a day. I can talk to anything or anybody. I really used Instagram stories to the full extent. And that's where I've made the majority of my clients for going on six years now.
Speaker 2Yeah. And do you think that Instagram stories still work? Because now we have reels and we have carousels and all that.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think I don't discriminate against all types of video content. So if you guys want to do, I would recommend, this is actually in my notes, but I would recommend doing at least two forms of video content. And I've. I've increased that. I used to tell clients and my community to do at least one form of video on Instagram. But now that we have so many options, reels are kind of like, you can't really ignore them. That's just the way it's going. But reels don't necessarily mean that you have to have video of your face. Although I highly recommend some of your reels being of you as well. So I definitely would recommend. Yeah, using at least two forms of video on Instagram. So we've got Instagram lives, we've got reels, we've got stories. I was going to say feed videos, but now those are now called reels also. So I would try to do at least two of those. My recommendation, if you're just getting started, would be probably reels and stories. But you can also do short Instagram lives. A lot of the issue, and I find this for my designer clients as well. After they get over the hump of like, okay, I'm going to show my face. Then they get nervous about like talking for so long. Which you just, we just got to practice. Well, like everything, it gets way easier with practice for like, you know, background again there. This is probably my 250th collaborative interview. So I've done a lot of these and same with reels and Instagram lives and stories.
Speaker 2The same is with everything. Even with sales calls. Like I remember practicing by myself, just looking at my screen when nobody was on the other side. And I would just say, it's $15,000 per brand strategy, logo design, whatever, whatever. And I just repeat that over and over by myself until finally I had a potential client who I could actually say that to. And then it felt comfortable and normal because I already said it a hundred times.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I love that. I love that you're practicing. Sales calls and yeah. And you guys can do the same for, for reels and stories and lives. They actually make it, you know, really increasingly easy now. Now you can practice going live by yourself on Instagram. Like that's a feature. So they're trying to, to help us out. Yeah. That caveat was just to say that, you know, if you haven't gotten any clients on Instagram or Instagram stories yet, as some people haven't, it definitely can be done. Cause I have. Made my entire business built upon that kind of by accident. And I will say to you all, when I started, I wasn't very good. I, I practiced a lot. Yeah. Sometimes I would, first of all, this isn't like my number one priority, but I always looked like a hot mess. Like I would, I was like, I started doing it in the middle of the summer and I would always like exercise and I live in New York where it's very hot in the summer. So I would like exercise, get amped up, have all these ideas. Like I do when I go running or if you guys ever get shower ideas. And then I was like, go straight onto Instagram stories and be a hot mess. I would talk for way too long. I would ramble. I didn't use like any engagement features, et cetera, et cetera. So not doing like the best, but I got better with practice and yeah. Katie's question about like, well, now there's. Reels and lives, like our story's still going to make a difference. We've seen the Instagram features come and go. We see them bring on stuff and we see them take it away and we see them say, you know, this is going to be forever. Whenever going to change it. And then it changes. So stories have been here for a long time. I don't think they're going anywhere. They make sales at least in my purview for the 200 plus clients I've worked with and my community. Which has even more designers than that in it. Those people are making sales from Instagram stories every day. So if they do it, Katie, you can definitely do it. Our audience listening, you guys can do it too.
Speaker 2So yeah, I've actually never even tried to make sales on Instagram. We do post just so people see that we exist. But most of our clients are coming through LinkedIn. So my ideal clients are business owners who either have their business. All the day, like that they started or they're launching a new business. And I feel like I connect better with them on LinkedIn versus on Instagram. Even though, you know, Instagram is a visual platform. However, my clients are just usually not on Instagram. Also, they tend to be a little bit older. And when I say older, I don't mean like old, but like 40, 50 or so. And it's just every time when I would talk to them, when they're looking for brand strategists or a website design, or something, they say they Googled or they ask for referral on LinkedIn. And they're not so much on Instagram. So that's why I want to talk to you and to hear more about like how graphic designers can actually grow either their following or business and, you know, land clients on Instagram. Because I honestly don't know much about it.
Speaker 1Yeah. So what you said at the very beginning about like, you know, you've never tried to make sales on Instagram stories, I think. I actually have a creative writing minor, so I love like LinkedIn. and writing and then marketing was my major the words that we use like katie is using to describe sales and sales and stories are very intriguing to me so at the beginning when we're talking about like i've actually never tried to make sales on stories to me that's like indicative of katie's like entire sales perspective which is that and forgive me if this is incorrect this is just me like kind of yeah forecasting what i think is going on in your head about sales but i would probably venture to guess that for you maybe sales is something that you have to like work at it's like an activity maybe that in your head seems like there's a lot of things to do and it's going to take like you know forethought work and it can maybe be sometimes like feel a little sleazy like you don't want to put people off do you feel any of those things
Speaker 2probably not no i actually see sales as i'm not selling i'm helping them they need me they need my services they can't grow their business without me so i actually help them and when i say that like hey i can help you someone can maybe see that as like oh i'm selling sure fine if i'm selling but i'm actually helping them i love that yeah it's just um instagram was always you know i'm not selling but i'm actually helping them i love that yeah it's just um instagram was on the side in terms of also what i prefer even though i am a creative i'm a graphic designer but i love writing so blog was always kind of like how i would express anything business or like any anything related yeah i just love writing and then also linkedin worked really well for me so i didn't want to kind of like spread myself like so thin and try every single platform and every single feature so i just like stayed with what i know that works but i know that i know that instagram can definitely work for designers
Speaker 1for sure yeah so katie's mindset is is what i work with people to achieve exactly that that sales doesn't have to be like sleazy or be you know a shitload of work that you hate every minute of it most of all sales as a coming from a place of service that we're looking for people that need what you have and are excited to work with you and after they you know you sign or when you guys make a decision to work together they're going to be like oh katie thank god this is exactly what i needed thank you so much for reaching out or for answering my dm yeah exactly about you yeah i mean
Speaker 2we do we do make sales on instagram when it comes to online courses so as a business coach teaching graphic designers how they can start and grow their businesses i do make sales that way but i don't make sales when it comes to my services my design services but again i haven't
Speaker 1okay yeah okay so just a couple of notes there so yeah like i first of all if you guys are doing like katie like linkedin considering instagram stories emails i'm actually the opposite at the moment of katie where i really want to get onto linkedin more and katie is like we're doing really good on linkedin and it's working for her but maybe considering instagram stories so i agree with you like we don't want to spread ourselves too thin so if something is working great for you i would recommend to keep doing it but i also am an adventurous person and kind of carry that into the way that i consult with people for business overall but specifically marketing lead generation and sales so if i usually help people find depending on how much bandwidth they have how many sales we need at least two to three if not three to five different sources for lead generation which usually includes doing marketing on that platform too so i say usually like if networking is one of your forms of lead gen you might not need to make content you know for i'm like a networking platform but you still gotta engage there but if you guys have the bandwidth i would recommend using two to three different platforms for marketing where you're making your content making content and doing lead generation and if you already have one that's working great for you like linkedin definitely stick with it and then if you have the room for it even a little bit then i would also try out like one new platform maybe once a month or once a quarter if you're really stretched thin so like for katie if linkedin is working great i would keep doing linkedin and then maybe try to add you know a little bit of instagram to it and then i would try to add you know a little bit of instagram maybe in august or september and try it out for at least like a month or two and see how that goes yeah
Speaker 2so what i'm doing at the moment is a linkedin blog and in-person networking events because i'm here in austin texas and we have a lot of amazing events so i yeah so basically i i love those three things and those are my kind of like key points but then i also actually my team posts on instagram like two or three times a week or something like that just so people know that i'm doing this and i'm doing this and i'm doing this so people see that we exist or if someone you know stumble upon us like on on instagram that's all fine but these are kind of like our three main focuses and that's when it comes to my branding and design agency but then when it comes to my educational platform event of academy then instagram and email marketing are like the main main things that work for us because we are selling online courses coaching programs masterminds and so on so i think it's also like depends what you do yes and and also what you enjoy the most i don't know there are so many people that would hate going for networking events well i love those so
Speaker 1i feel like just as a side note you can take this out if you want to but i think i found you through the academy right and i messaged you yes yeah so yeah i'm very extroverted i do it for first of all because i love people but also for networking just like katie is talking about and and it ended it started maybe even in the beginning this and then also that makes an immense sales for our business too but um i thought for some reason that we were going to talk that like that katie that you were like maybe a little bit shy i'm not giving the feeling that you're shy no no i am not shy at all no i love that and the networking too that's awesome i would definitely recommend everybody trying to have one of those like if you're going to have three which i would recommend be really your base minimum if you're going to have three different marketing and lead generation sources having some form of community-based or in-person networking as one of them so that could be like going to memberships and talking to people like there's a lot of we actually throw one of those we do every third thursday of the month inside of my sales pitches membership we do a free happy hour which is like i was gonna say it's nothing about sales it's nothing about me selling to you it's just about people coming to network but we can talk about sales but i'm not like selling you my program so there's a lot of people that do those like i keep finding more and more and more so like if you're somewhere with really strict covid restrictions and maybe you don't have the chance to do in-person networking like there aren't any opportunities for that you could do like in you know online networking and then you could do like a three-day online networking you guys are welcome to come yeah
Speaker 2exactly because for example i'm originally from serbia and i don't think there are many events in person even though there are no covid restrictions but it's like there's just not enough in order for you to maybe find enough leads and clients and whatnot so i always encourage people to find networking events online and they're so easy to find there's a website meetup.com where i find a lot of events from then facebook events event price like so many different options yeah
Speaker 1and even in the like entrepreneur community as well there's lots of them in there too i think freelancers union has like at least national if not international chapters there's luminary croissants like a lot of major cities have like a hub that has like in-person events and online the other thing i was going to say regarding like austin specifically if you can't find any events in your city you could a start them all you guys need for like a networking event is like you and one other person so like me and katie that's how i started my nyc events business was just me and one other friend of mine stephanie and we would meet up invite other people to come and that was it really yeah that's amazing yeah so you can make one or you could travel for an event if that's something that's like in your budget for instance you could make one for an i know because it's one of my clients dallas girl gang on october 21st has a 300 person event and those are really good opportunities to meet people like potentially like you know katie you should come by the way potentially like katie and i or you guys listening could go to this like got dallas girl gang event or create and cultivate event or we are women owned like You can go to these wonderful events. like four five ten people that could be like half your clients for a year yeah definitely and also
Speaker 2i was just about to say you meet a lot of people who got to know you like you trust you all that and then they send you referrals because there are so many people that also have clients but offer different services to maybe the same target so that's really really good to connect but also let's let's just go back a little bit to uh to instagram because yeah we are like this podcast episode is going to be all about instagram but then we talk about everything else so if we if we go back to instagram stories do you think that high paying clients really watch instagram stories and do you think that's a good feature for designers like to focus on yeah definitely someone who has i don't know wants to invest like fifty thousand dollars on their brand and like let's say it's a skincare line they're rebranding they have fifty thousand dollars they want to work on their labels boxes websites whatever do you think they would really like scroll on instagram and watch the stories yeah
Speaker 1definitely so about like making sales on stories like just getting into it as an opening i don't want you guys to think that like if you're already doing stories or you haven't started yet to get those high-end clients which is what we're getting now that you have to go in there and like i'm gonna make sales on stories now like walk up like a bro marketer and like have it all planned out and like all about sales like very strict like it doesn't have to be like that and honestly at least being a female identifying entrepreneur who works with a lot of other female identifying business owners most of them are not going to respond to that like if you've ever seen something maybe some will but if you've ever seen the stories that are like i call them like sales slides where like maybe it's your first time going to that person's stories and you see like three slides that are like here's this thing here's why you should want it come and get it and like that's it and like as part of a larger strategy that can work but that's not how all your content has to be so i don't want you guys to think that like if you want to start making sales on stories that you have to totally change your entire like content formula and start making like super salesy shit that you don't feel aligned with and like then wonder why it's not working so if we're talking about like the high-end clients yes they are on instagram stories and the way that i would advise you guys to like go along there and get those is that you want to start with the personal first and i mean that like literally and metaphorically so like if you're like i don't know i don't know i don't know if i'm gonna be able to do that like literally when you're posting your stories i would this is very strategic after me doing it for like six years i start with my personal content first so usually when i'm posting stories i'll post a mixture mixture of personal educational and sales content and in those three usually i do like all three of those each day one might be like shorter than the others but i try to do all three each day which doesn't mean that i have like more content it actually is like the opposite like i try to be really succinct with what i'm posting and then also people get used to me selling every day in different ways so when you're doing instagram stories yes those you know 10 000 a month 50 000 a month plus clients are on there and to speak to them to get them to trust you the number one thing i've learned i think they want to know is like is this someone i trust to be in business with so i would do personal content first and then you can have your educational and sales content mixed into there too when you're doing the personal content i would recommend that you guys have like at least three or four kind of personal brand pillars that you like to talk about and then you can you know be yourself and talk what
Speaker 2would those pillars be can you give us specific examples like do i need to post every day with kind of coffee i drink or yeah my daughter's face or what would that be yeah yeah so i think
Speaker 1definitely keeping your ideal client in mind like you know katie and i were both outside of our business full-fledged people with lots of interests or hobbies things that make us up as a person so i would think about number one what really makes you you and then also which of those do you feel comfortable showing in your business and then what's going to speak to your ideal client so like coffee for instance if you're a coffee shop which is really obvious but also like coffee could be a big part of your brand that huge blonde influencer that just did like the met gala she emmy emma yeah i know i know who you're talking about yeah emma something like i will i looked at some of her new like oldest youtube videos and they're just her making a coffee and now she's like got a coffee brand so anyways if that's something that you like really love and you could easily talk about every single day and you think about it all the time that's great and i i mean that like with the utmost support and confidence so for me one of mine is cocktails specifically whiskey my um pal jen of neat marketing is a great example if you guys want to look at for that as well so jen and i are both from louisville kentucky which is not bourbon kentucky where bourbon is actually made but still known for bourbon so that's a big part of our background is like the south and bourbon and bourbon tastings etc so that's one of my brand pillars that we talk about it's actually in my new branding it's like cocktails specifically like whiskey cocktails so that's in my like brand photos of me like holding a glass of whiskey or a bottle of whiskey it's in my like brand gifs so when i post on stories we have like a gif of like a whiskey bottle etc etc so that's one of mine another one of mine is cooking i love to cook and i love to eat so i definitely use that one like i cook probably three or four times a week and that's these are things that matter a lot and for you guys what i would tell you to choose something that matters a lot to you that you're deeply invested in and ideally that you're that's gonna like appeal to a large audience of the audience that you want so like loving whiskey and cocktails cooking high-end healthy meals the nyc content that's where i live and i've made that a huge part of my brand and then last but not least would be my little cheetah that's running around meowing because he would rather me play with him and i have posted my cat gambit he's a bangle which is like named after the bangle tiger he has stripes and spots that cat is like an identifier like if i go and meet people at that like dallas girl gang event in october people will come up to me in person the first time they've met me and say like oh you're the girl with the cheetah with the little cheetah so we just want things that are like appeal they matter to you they appeal to like you know most of your audience and they're memorable if you guys know which most of you probably will like madison tinder a huge part of her brand and this isn't an accident either a huge part of her brand was the scrunchies like a big messy bun and the scrunchies to the point that everybody knew her as like the scrunchie girl so she made a scrunchie business the point being that these personal topics that you guys can talk about in your stories can be so like iconizing they like solidify you as a business owner and make you so memorable in people's mind that you can actually like monetize if you want to those brand elements themselves so that's where i would start with the personal content and that would be to really get high-end clients to trust you you know there's lots of for example of like what to do and what not to do i'm not a like super spiritual coach like i'm not like a spiritual sales coach who helps people with like all sorts of spiritual things and like using tarot cards and meditation you guys know what i'm talking about that's not the way that i run this sales consulting business so when i do my stories like i'm not going to be talking in depth about that in fact i might even talk like i just said about how i respect those business owners but that's not who i am and the kinds of clients i'm looking for so that if katie comes to my stories and meets me for the first time if she's looking for a spiritual sales coach she's gonna know because i'm gonna tell her like that's not me so all we're looking for with personal content is for you to get comfortable showing yourself and make a connection with people for your content so that high-end clients that are watching can either say like i'm not a spiritual sales coach or i'm not a spiritual sales coach like, oh, Katie is like, as we would say in Kentucky, like she's my kind of people or she's not yeah right which is good because if you're not their kind of people that's probably not somebody that you want to work with anyway this is a big qualm a bone to pick i found with designers specifically that like they don't want to push anybody away they don't want to post their prices they want people to fill out an intake form and get on a call because they don't want anybody to be pushed away that could be a potential client and just like i was saying you know katie's sales mindset is the mindset that i want all business owners and clients of mine to grow to that's like a starting mindset i was gonna say a beginner but like that's a scarcity mindset right of like i want anybody and everybody i can find so i'm not gonna scare anybody you away so i'm not gonna tell people i don't want these people maybe i don't really like that person it's not really the kind of work i want to do they're gonna be really tough but like i could try to make it work i would advise you guys if i was starting over to not do that from the beginning if you only take the clients you really want from the start if you can afford to do that or afford to do that if you can't afford to like mostly talking about the clients that you do want even if you have some that you don't like working with as much yeah so basically going
Speaker 2in that direction yeah like going that direction of where one day you can actually pick and choose who you want to work with versus letting them to choose you and that's that's another thing like a lot of people a lot of designers are afraid of like specializing and niching down because they think that if they do that they're going to say no to a lot of people but i mean yes you will say no to a lot of people who you don't want to work with you know like i was always passionate about like health and wellness businesses specifically product-based businesses and going like even more into like wellness and self-care like skin care lines vitamins other supplements and all that and then as a graphic designer i finally found like how i can merge those two and basically specialize in you know now now what we do at my branding agency like we do branding and designs for health and wellness businesses focusing on skin care lines and as soon as we specialize like niche down and said who we want to work with that's when my business took
Speaker 1off yeah because there's so many businesses out there now which is amazing so many female-owned businesses queer-owned businesses so many entrepreneurs of so many backgrounds that it's gonna be tough to find a super specific niche where there aren't still tons of people that want to work with you i want to get this in here and then i'd love to share some specific content ideas like i think you want i
Speaker 2was just about to ask like if a designer like he's using like instagram stories or posts or whatever and try to engage with high paying clients like what would you know either their goal be or like what do they post or yes
Speaker 1yeah so i want to say too and then i'll get into the specific content ideas that just like we were talking about katie was saying and i was saying like maybe at the beginning you feel like you gotta take everybody but over time you realize you don't and you can be more choosy this is another lesson i would say i've learned and maybe maybe katie has too that even though you have beautiful visual work and ideally you just put that work out there people see it and it sells for you that's definitely gonna happen if you guys are talented designers i assume that you all are gonna happen you're gonna find people that want you but until then and even after then i would also advise you to have a sales plan and that includes multiple things like lots of different parts of you know who you're working with what kind of offers you have price point market research where you're selling what's your lead gen process how to onboard people but for sake of this conversation one of those things is to have a sales plan and be selling on instagram or on whatever marketing avenues you guys are on but for this convo like instagram stories specifically so a lot of designers that i've worked with over the years do exactly the reason katie and i are having this conversation they do what everybody else is doing and you guys are not everybody else nobody is we're all different but they go on instagram and they post like it's not always even before and afters a lot of times just like here's what i did next post here's what i did next post so like to be specific like logo in one post next one might be a carousel with like logo brand palette and social media templates like guys that's fantastic everybody wants to see your work but there's also more to selling to get you guys clients than just what you can do another thing so many designers have told me as i'm like their sales consultant and doing sales for them it's like well i don't even have to work with the clients so they don't need to get to know me like okay but do you do an intake call well yeah or an intake form yeah and then i just do the work and hand it to them but you're still working with somebody so in order for those people to decide if they want to work with you not only do they need to see the beautiful work that all of you designers are hopefully posting and most of you are but they also need to know who you are what's your process like not only what does the work look like but what is it going to do for them why are you different what kinds of questions do people ask when they want to work with you if you guys can put all this stuff in your content specifically instagram or instagram stories here if you can put all that content out before you talk to somebody then by the time that like you know sarah comes in wanting to talk with you as a designer she's already got most of her questions answered so then instead of sarah asking you like 12 questions and talking your ear off in the dms or you know on a sales call she might have one question and then want to get on a sales call or most of the designers i work with they're ready their clients now are ready to buy in the direct messages because they've put all of this content that helps people to make a buying decision in their instagram stories and in their instagram content so i want to give you guys some specific examples of those but in a nutshell what i just said is that you need a sales strategy on all of your content but for this convo for instagram stories you need a sales strategy and it needs to be more than just just beautiful pictures of your beautiful work so more than that and i will say that when you guys have that beautiful work and then combine it with the other content types i'm about to tell you you're in a really good spot to be on instagram as a designer because you have like the aesthetically pleasing piece because you already have beautiful design work whereas like you know a systems coach doesn't have design work to show so you've got something beautiful for people to look at then you can also like talk about the process behind it and show your personality and that can put you in a really good position to make sales even more so than other people so you guys have a good opportunity there okay so for instagram content this could really be for the you know you can use these for stories but also for your feed i'm really into content repurposing and taking like one idea and using it multiple ways but specifically for stories what i would tell you guys to put in there is just make sure that you're giving them all of that information to make a decision i use this analogy a lot and i'll do a very short version of like let's say you go into a really high priced makeup counter like at a department store or in new york like a makeup boutique let's say you go in and you think that just like designers that the product or your design work is beautiful but there's no details on it you don't know if it's a lipstick or an eyeliner you don't know what it's used for you don't know what it's used for you don't know what it's used for you don't know how much it costs then people sometimes get so frustrated that they just go away so if somebody's coming to your instagram or your instagram stories and has a couple of seconds to decide if they want to go to the next story or exit out which is really easy we want to make sure we're giving them all the information to be interested but also potentially make a buying decision so here's a couple of examples these basically all fit in to the five categories of my sales content cocktail so the first one would be what is it that they're buying from you so like what are they going to buy and what's the difference like do you sell design coaching or do you sell design done for you services so many people use the word design guys that could be print collateral that could be billboards that could be websites that could be brand guidelines so what are you going to buy and what are you going to sell and what are you actually making and are you doing it for them or are you coaching them what size business are are you looking to work with so that's the first part of the sales content cocktail is like what do you actually do second of all would be who is it for just like katie was talking about she niched down and got really specific we cannot put in our business profiles anymore like i work with female entrepreneurs i know i said that at the beginning like as an intro but if somebody actually was telling me or in my stories content like who do i work with i would get much more specific into that so tell like specific examples of what kinds of businesses you work with the third part would be how can they work with you so like what are the different options that you offer that could be multiple offers like katie has her educational platform but also her services or it could be multiple options within an offer you know like this package or that package so like maybe you just have one service that's like done for you branding but that could be just a logo or it could be logo and collateral so tell them those options in that how do i work with you you also want people to know the process so if you do like an intake form and then you do a brainstorm and then you do first looks like whatever your process is before they work with you and while working with you we want them to know that the features that they would get from working with you so do they get boxer support do they get an intake call do they get regular calls do they get a bonus of instagram stories highlights all of that shit is people things that people need to know and want to know and then the last one last two would be when so like when can i get started when will i see results what are those going to be like in terms of like what will the work look like how can i use it what's this work going to do for me that's probably the biggest one that designers miss out on like time and time again i've worked with dozens of designers probably 50 plus of my 200 plus clients in the last six years i've worked with a lot of designers and that's like number one that they miss out on in their content specifically their sales content not just what do your beautiful work look like your before and afters but like what does that do for the clients so that could be a text review it could be a video review it could be you talking about that work you guys don't have to wait for somebody to give you the perfect review to actually talk about the work you did the work it's your work you can talk about it so that's really really important of like the difference would be so like a basic review what most people would post is like oh man katie made the coolest brand for me now it's speaking directly to my ideas and it's like oh my god ideal clients i love the colors and it feels totally summery and high-end fantastic but what did that do for the client after that did it actually get them more high-end clients coming to them did they get a speaking opportunity with their dream client did they have to work less in their business because clients were coming to them easier were they more confident to show up now that they felt like they had an aligned brand like hopefully you guys can see and katie is nodding how that's so much deeper and if you can kind of guide your clients not to say what you want but to go deeper so i'm glad that you love the brand what did it do for you after you started implementing it that's great or if that client's not around anymore or whatever you can also talk about the brand as well and then the last one would be objections this is probably the second biggest issue i see with designers is that they're not covering any objections things that in katie is going to nod i bet but any of you listening if i can see you you guys will probably nod too well why should i pick you over meredith because she's cheaper well i don't know if i really need branding i think i could probably just make a logo myself it's pretty easy right all of that stuff the basics to like really in depth those are objections of like speaking to what is your worth what is the value of your work so if you can handle those in your content before people ask them they get even more answers answered of what they need before you even have to spend one-on-one time speaking with them and then you can go deeper answer answer any other follow-up questions they have so a couple specific ideas would be for your reels sorry just looking at this note i'm confused about what it said yeah no
Speaker 2worries i also wanted to add that a lot of designers keep posting the visuals you know they post this is a logo that i made this is the website that i made but they don't post any educational content and clients don't know so yeah if i design an amazing logo okay fine but then someone else also designs amazing logo too but then if i add an educational part to it or the real value behind that logo that's how clients is going to choose me and a lot of my students at the end of academy have like if you go to their websites they would say we offer logo design and packaging and websites versus if you go to my website where i say that i am helping wellness brands launch and boost product sales yeah and then how i do it you know because it's not about the services that you provide it's about the results that you provide
Speaker 1yes that's very important and what i've heard from i love that you do that what i've heard from a million designers over the last six years is like well i give them a website i don't get sales results like you i give them a website i give them branding that's what you physically give them just like i physically might if katie's my sales consulting client i might physically give her and calls, but that's not their result. Their result is why people want that brand work. And nobody buys, well, some might, but almost nobody buys branding just because. Every client who's going to work with you guys as a brand designer is buying for a reason. So make sure that they know that reason. Hopefully they're buying for the same result that you're providing. And then at the end, we also want to check in with them and make sure that when you give it to them, that they're happy and they think this can or has done what they want. And then also remember to check in with them like a month later, three months later and see how it's progressed.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. Because if you talk about physical products and designers offering like packaging design and label design and whatever, they're not supposed to talk about these things only. They're supposed to talk about the product. And they're supposed to talk about the product. They're supposed to talk about, I'm going to help you make more sales of your product. I'm going to help you attract the right audience. I'm going to, you know, something about conversion or something like the, the bigger goal behind that physical thing that they sent over, which is a file.
Speaker 1Yeah. And I will say too, so going back to the educational content, when you guys are doing educational content, keep the level of client in mind. So the biggest things that I hear from people when we talk about the diff, like, so we've got personal content, we've got sales content. When we're doing educational in the mix with that, your educational content doesn't have to be number one, teaching them to do what you do. That's, I hear so much shit from my clients because I'm very open and just let them say however they feel, cursing, get catty with me, whatever. So they'll say like, Alyssa, I don't want to teach so-and-so how to do what I do. Then they'll just go do it. So you don't have to teach people with your educational content. You don't have to teach them how to do what you do. If you've given educational content for years and you're tired of it, you also don't have to teach people how to do anything. Your educational content could be teaching people why they need you. So your educational content piece could be like a carousel of like, you know, why do you need an onboarding brochure? That's something that you make. Or why do you need to, this is probably more like relatable. Why do you need to update your logo every three months or six months or whatever it is for you, whatever you believe, right? Things that set you apart and also are going to teach people. This is problem awareness, which is part of the buyer's journey going from like no problem awareness to knowing they have a problem to knowing there are solutions to choosing a solution. So just getting people who are right there, maybe they're even your past clients to know like, oh, I don't have any problem. I've got a great logo. Yeah. From like two years ago, that could be even the post, you know, like, so you've got a logo from two years ago and you're sitting pretty dot, dot, dot, or are you question mark. So teaching people why they need you is still educational content. But as I explain it, you guys can probably also understand how it's sales content. I don't really advise clients anymore to stick so rigidly to content. pillars so like I would advise you guys to use personal and educational and sales but one piece of content could be both of those or all three of those so you can mix and match within there but yes we definitely want to educate people on why they need us why they need specific offers why they should come back to that and like Katie said make sure that we're talking about the results of what we do and not just you give them a logo because even if you guys think that all you're doing is making logos or making branding it's not and ideally we as a seller so you guys as a branding designer that are selling services ideally as a seller you understand the results of what you're providing but but even if you don't then that's something that we need to figure out right that's something that you need to figure out right so I think that's something that you need to that's something that you need to go find for market research and then you can talk to people about in your content as well so I definitely would would recommend that okay a couple of specific content examples so for whatever like kind of campaign you guys have it going on you know maybe your campaign is just that you have like three spots left for the month maybe you really want to sell your you know full branding package that includes like website and branding whatever your goals are make sure that your clients know or your potential clients know that too we don't want people to come to your page and not know if you are taking clients or not if you have x offer they need or not what kind of other offers do you have we want them to come to the page and be really clear on you know what you offer and when they can get it and how they can get it so make sure that that's really publicly available I would recommend putting whatever your goal is whatever your most trying to sell or maybe that's a couple of things I would recommend having that in your bio in your link in bio and then also in your content so one of those content pieces for example would be I would do this every month at the least and then I would do it every month and then I would do it every month and then I would do it for you guys to do like a ways to work with me post even if it's the same thing people need to know like maybe Katie has her educational platform and her services available and that was available in July but it's like 12 posts down then we also want to post it again in August even if it's the same like visual maybe just change the colors on it but every month at the beginning of the month I I would post a ways to work with me post even if it's the same like visual maybe just change the colors on it but every month at the even if you guys are all booked up then say that I'm sure as designers you've seen and maybe envied other people that have the like all booked up for August post put that up there you're not bragging maybe a little bit but that's just the truth you're booked up so people know that you can't take clients right now and ideally put when you are taking clients again and maybe that you're like taking deposits in advance so ways to work with you post is great I usually recommend people do that like as an infographic and it literally would be like ways to work with me one two and three and then if you are designers like you are you could also make a carousel and go a little bit more in depth of like here's a little bit on offer one offer two offer three here's how to get all of them or each of them on the last page that's a good one I definitely would do that also um what I was talking about earlier of like who you work with and who you don't that's a really fun infographic as well I love for sales content when possible to be readable that it's sales I call this like visual sales content so yes you're gonna sell like inside of the caption or in the stories like inside of your stories videos or your stories slides or pictures but the cover of that post or that reel or that story ideally also shows people that it is sales content and what you're going to talk about so the cover of the graphic could be like who I work with on one side who I don't on the other so people know or you can just do one that's like who I work with and lists like three or four traits about them that's great for post or stories another one would be the you could do this as a real or story but you know we were talking about before and afters it can get a little cliched if that's all you're doing but I still love before and afters and so do people in general and specifically design clients so instead of just doing like a before and after picture you could do stories where they like swipe to see a before and after of you know like one business you could also do a reel or stories where you do a bunch of before and afters so like before and after a project one then a project two then a project three or you could do that for like one piece of it maybe the logo piece or maybe brochures you made or maybe social media templates those are fun for stories because it moves a little faster but also fun for a carousel I think they're also really fun to do in reels where it goes like really quick and people have to like watch it again that shows that they're interested another one for like the personal and that's again also sales and educational would be like a day in the life stories that's like a tried and true that's a good one you can show your breakfast you can show your pets or your kids you can show where you live are you working at a coffee shop show the coffee shop I right now I'm living like on the beach of in of Manhattan like looking over the NYC skyline so you can also then talk about what kinds of clients you have why you chose that project what you're doing for it why it's challenging etc etc that's a good one and then um yeah I have a couple more if you want me to share them yeah sure go
Speaker 2ahead and then after that I have two more questions and we are getting into like more than an hour episode okay yeah I would
Speaker 1just say like for stories like we were talking about before people might initially come to see you for you know like your bio if you if Katie says like that she does design services for health and wellness especially like skincare brands and I'm a health focused skincare brand I'm gonna be like oh she's for me which is great so they might initially like check out your content or check out your Instagram and see if there's anything that you're interested in because you've got the results that are just for them but usually they'll stay around because of you because your content and specifically your personality and like personal content is interesting so that's why I put that first so like if I find a bunch of like gorgeous designers that I'm looking at on Instagram if I find a bunch of gorgeous designers that I'm looking at on Instagram like I might follow all of them but the person that I'm going to come back to and keep watching is the one who I actually see their face because I get to know them I meet them and I like them or maybe I get to know them and I don't like them and then I move along to somebody I will align with which is good for you to the seller because then hopefully it's somebody you would like to so last thing about like when people are finding you on Instagram stories make sure that when these high-end clients are looking for you and then I'll give a couple more content ideas when people are looking for you we want your Instagram stories content to be selling for you but we also want you to be searchable in the way that a high-end client would search for you so that means that a couple different places on your feed you know I said like your offer your main thing that you're selling or your spots left that should be in your link in bio your bio and your content and then you can search for it and then you can search for it and then you can search when we're talking about being searchable for people to find your Instagram stories sales content there's a couple more places that we want those high-end clients to be able to find you first of all would be your title I don't know if you guys know this but they extended the amount of words you can put in your title which doesn't mean that you want to make the longest one ever but like if Katie does branding and websites put that in your title because they're going to look up branding or they're going to look up websites but maybe they want both and then they'll be able to read that when you pop up in the search engine if you do like other engagements like Katie does and I do if you do collaborations paid speaking events podcasts put that in your title too so the actual headline not the bio the actual title so you want that to be there of like what you do in multiple capacities because most business owners I know now are multi-faceted then also in your bio that's where I would put a little bit about who you help, what specifically you help them with. with like the result you helped to achieve and then a little bit of detail on that current offer and how to get it so like if you want design services click my bio for design services dme for design services go to my highlights icon there's lots of places that was another one of your questions so we can take them and so title bio highlights are really important a lot of you guys because your designers are great with the visuals your highlights look great but sometimes need a little bit of beefing up or a couple more highlights so i would have everything that's in your website or even if you don't have a site yet we want to put in those highlights so about you what are your services what are the results past projects that you've worked with so they can see it see the results see the reviews the kinds of clients you work with and then maybe like faqs and how to get it and i think that's it and then your content yeah so your title your bio your link in bio your highlights and your content make sure you're searchable in all those places it really really helps i keep getting high-end clients ready to pay my rates or even bigger packages telling me they found me just from like an instagram search that they've never talked to me before but they search sales saw mine come up as done for you so i'm like okay i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this so you're still fitting within the searchable term that you're a little different i would recommend that to you guys as well and then you stand out and they'll message me and want to work together um and then last thing i said you know to like have a sales plan and be selling on stories and just as a reminder i would recommend that you guys sell date daily so here's a couple more ways that we can for stories specifically that you can sell daily the things that people are going to be looking for are the things that you're going to be looking for and the things that you're going to most would be why do they need you these are like the three things i would say are what most get people to buy so why do they actually need to work with you like why should they do it and why should they do it soon why should they pick you like what makes katie different than the other 300,000 designers out there because people are going to ask that right they will maybe nicer than i do but they will maybe not nicer and then last but not least what are the results that you're going to get them so make sure that those things are in your content and here's a couple specific ideas for them so the like why do they need you or why should they pick you a really great way to do that is similar to like a day in the life but doing like a q a this could be personal or it could be business or both i like when people do this like every wednesday or every tuesday they do like an ask me anything in their stories people ask them anything then they share the results with like kind of pictures of what they're talking about and that's a really great way for people to get to know them personally and business-wise you could also use your stories to route people to a q a that you do like every wednesday for 15 minutes at three o'clock and answer people from your stories on a live and make sure that you're answering questions that they get and if you're not getting any or not the ones that you want to answer then you're going to have to do it in a you could also say like and so and so once asked me and answer that question that shows why you stand out why you're different etc etc another one would be for like a story series kind of similar to the real ones just to show like an overview of all the work that you're getting that you have work who you're working with what they're saying about you what the results were etc so i call this like the break apart and put it together method where like if katie was my branding client i could do a story just on her and say like why katie came to me why she was worried if she should pick me or not what we decided to do together what the results were what she said about me what she said like a month later after she implemented it so that's like uh break it apart but then if you put it together katie could do it together so that's great to do in your stories too and anything where people are like clicking through is great because it's like active like a carousel or stories where they're tapping and we know they're interested yeah to keep going i will say to hear one more thing video reviews if you guys can give a shout out to my five top clients from august and show like one piece of all of them a couple of guiding questions to your clients like why they came to you you know what work you did and how they liked it what the results were have them answer that in a like 30 second to a minute video put that in your stories that's great and then you can use that to open your sales stories or at the end to show like you know the results that you were talking about so that's really good to also remember to tag those clients with their permission so they'll share it and then you can get more people coming over from them um if you can interview your clients like do a stories takeover where you ask them questions and they answer in your stories or you use your stories to route them to an instagram live whether you guys are talking about it together so it's like even less awkward that's great and then don't don't don't forget collaborations just like katie and i for doing are doing for this but anytime that you're doing like anytime that you can do like a blog takeover or a linkedin takeover or stories takeover or live together that's a chance for you guys to get in front of multiple audiences and not only have potential for high-end clients to come to you but for them to come to katie or you and then be routed to you from her so don't forget collaborations don't wait for people to ask you to do collaborations there's so much of this shit as female entrepreneurs of like i don't want to be too bold i don't want to be too over the top i don't want to be the first to ask i don't want to go to a movie alone it's all about like what other people are thinking about us right if katie and i are going to do a collab or if you guys listening are going to do a collaboration somebody always has to ask either katie's gonna ask or i'm gonna ask so if you're not getting asked yet start asking other people and see if they'd be open to like a two-way collab where you feature them on your page and then they feature you on theirs but someone always has to be doing the asking so don't wait till you're big enough for being asked all the time just pitch it to people because it can be a benefit should be to both of you and last but not least one other thing you can do for like to feature others is do like my top five designers of the week or my top five briefs of the week and just feature them on your website and just like feature other people don't consider them competitors these are your colleagues right this is your peers nobody is going to have the exact same clients and the best client for you is always going to pick you in my mind so that way to do it of just like featuring other people that you admire or like things like there's like 10 of these i just found out but like the brief collective or brief babes those people offer like up-and-coming designers the chance to a flex their design muscles so you have projects to show even if it's not from a client you can also make that up and then they'll feature you back and tons of other designers will see you so definitely be open to posting about others collaborating with others and then you can potentially get referral work from somebody or do the work with them maybe katie loves to do logos and i love to do the collateral the social media templates so just like i said if you're just being open to all your options and really being like generous of like shouting people out and being intentional and kind with it can really help you grow your network and get leads from stories as well i think that was a lot i think that was yeah
Speaker 2that's that's amazing you actually answered some of the questions that i was about to ask so okay good yeah but that was amazing thank you so much for sharing all of that i'm sure this will be super helpful for brand graphic web designers like really any creative that's trying to get work and it's constantly posting the creative work but there are no leads yes yeah yeah if you guys are doing that
Speaker 1don't think that it's your work either you probably should keep doing what you're
Speaker 2doing and so yeah well that sounds perfect again thank you so much do you have any last thoughts on how designers can improve their sales and you know grow their business using
Speaker 1instagram yeah um the last short two things i'll say number one is that when it comes to the dms that's really where i get my sales so when i say i'm making tons of sales on instagram most of them i make sales from people coming from my content it being sales content and then other stuff in the middle like personal educational and then people and i close in the dms and like send them a contract i also have made sales now that i'm selling like more passive things from directing them from my content to my LinkedIn bio, where they can check out for my membership or my course without me. But most of my stories sales have come from the content giving them 99% of the information they need to make a buying decision. And then they come to me in the DMs to check on any questions, make sure that they like and trust me, and then buy there. So all that to say that make sure all of your content has a call to action, your stories also. That doesn't mean every single story has to, but each like segment should, for the most part, especially each sales segment. Maybe a personal segment would tell them like, you know, DM me if you want to ask me anything. An educational segment might tell them like, go to X live. And now we have the link sticker. So you could link your live, like go to this link. Go to this workshop training for more information on this topic or even this post and share the post next. And then also for sales, another one of your questions, advising them to DM you or ask questions in the question box and you'll answer and DM them or LinkedIn bio. It really depends on your audience, but I think the easiest one and what stories is really set up for is to have people DM you from the story because they can just write. And it starts a new DM and you can make it super easy for them to like, don't make them make it as easy and accessible as possible. Don't make them like make up what they have to say. You can use code words. So if I'm Katie, I would say like DM course to talk about my educational platform or DM services to talk about the design services that I can offer for you. Then they can say one word and that starts a conversation, a sales conversation. So make sure that your content is leading people to that for stories. I would write it in there for your posts. I would usually put it on the visual and in the caption. And so that it leads people to your DMS. And then when you get people to the DMS, I have a whole nother free training on this. I can share if you guys want, maybe I can share that with Katie just to send to them. Um, but when you get people in the DMS, finally, that's all that you guys have worked for. Right. Is to get people who are interested to come to you. So we don't want to drop the ball. I also don't want you to be too stressed out or too robotic. Basically my process is rapport goals and struggles offers and objections. So that's the process that I would go to long story short. Just remember that it's people on the other side, like Katie said at the beginning, you're coming from a place of service. So make a connection with them and then, you know, ask them if they're interested. About your offers. They are great. If not fine. But I would advise you guys to reach out to people on your own, at least like three people, three times a week that are your ideal clients. And just start, remember with rapport, with a personal connection. You know, I love your dog. I've got a Husky too. Or I also get that brand of coffee. What's your favorite flavor lately? Whatever. I would usually start with personal, sometimes business, but I would advise you guys to reach out to people at least like, you know, five to 10 people a week. And just remember that it's people on the other side. And all we're trying to do is make a connection, see if they need your help and offer it. If they do, even if you've offered and they don't need your help, stay in touch. They might refer to you. They might come back. They might want a different offer. So just don't take it so personally. We're saying like build a personal connection, but a personal connection for business. So don't be afraid to reach out to people and make connections. That's why I built my many, many thousands of dollars a month business on. And there's no reason that you guys can't hit whatever your sales goals are, whether it's 5,000, 20,000 plus like me and my clients have just through Instagram stories and any other marketing methods you want to use as well.
Speaker 2Yeah. I love that again. Thank you so much for all the amazing, amazing content you shared with us today. And thank you so much for joining me today. Where can our listeners connect? With you online, like your website, social media, probably your Instagram and your Instagram stories and anywhere else you might be.
Speaker 1Instagram stories is really my, like still my main thing. I just fell in love. I do get sales from it, but I also just love it. So you guys can find me on Instagram at nerve client studio, and we do post, we have more posts coming out, but also lots of stories as well. I do a live every Wednesday, usually also. So feel free to find me on there. And then later in August, our new website will be up. It's nerve client studio.com. It is up now, but it's just a homepage while we're updating it. And those are really the two best spots. Perfect.
Speaker 2Well, thank you again. All right. Thank you so much, Katie. I'll talk to you soon. Sounds good. Bye. Bye. Thank you for joining us today on the Profitable Graphic Designer. In addition to this podcast, we have created some amazing online courses to help you set up your business, get more clients and scale to the income level you desire. If you need help developing your freelance portfolio, so it stands out. If you want to learn how to create proposals, new clients will say yes to, if you're still trying to figure out how much to charge for your services. And if becoming the go-to designer for your dream clients is your goal this year, then I invite you to enroll in my signature 12 week program, the Profitable Designer, or one of our other specialized online courses. To learn more about the programs and get started, visit AventiveAcademy.com. See you next time.
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