287 // Perfect Organism Reviews Alien: Earth Ep. 1 ("Neverland") *SPOILERS AHEAD*

The following episode contains plot details about the first episode of Alien Earth. If you would like a completely fresh experience, we recommend you come back and listen to this episode after the first two episodes premiere on August 12th. There's gotta be a way of killing it, how, how do we do it? You can't. Bullshit. You still don't understand what you're doing, let's do it. Perfect, well done, isn't it? What's happening? Something in the war. What do you mean there's something in the war? It's just something in the fucking war. Hero, do you copy? Prep for dust off, we're gonna need immediate evac. Roger, on our way. Say we take off, move the side from the orbit. There's only way to be sure. Get away from her, you bitch! I ain't much for begging. Nobody ever gave me nothing. So I say fuck that thing. That's fighting! Welcome to Perfectorganism, the alien saga podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Prater, and I'm joined by my co-host. Patrick Green. And we are here at the wreckage at San Diego Comic-Con to discuss our first reactions to spoiler-filled alien-earth episode 1. Spoiler is, we'll keep this slightly light on in case people don't watch it yet. But honestly, I recommend watch it before you, you know, necessarily listen to this because you should have your own opinions, obviously. If you've already seen it and you want to kind of hear some of our thoughts, you know, that's what we're doing now. There's gonna be a lot more coverage of this show coming up. We're still gonna do an after-show for the first two episodes when they premiere. We haven't seen the second one. We've only seen the first episode. Jamie's seen it at least three times. I've seen it four times. There's a lot to talk about, and you're going to be just kind of getting into that little tip of the iceberg today. There's a cliff notes. A cliff notes version. A cliff notes. Yeah, what do you think? What are your first impressions? I have had an interesting, as you know, journey through this show. The first time I saw it, I was really impressed with a lot of things. And there were a lot of things that I really was intrigued by. But there were a lot of things that kind of frustrated me about it. And I have since now seen it multiple times in my opinions on a lot of those things have changed. Some of them, I still, I'm a little bit kind of like, how are they gonna make this kind of work? Is this gonna be, is this kind of shaking out the bugs during a pilot episode? And maybe they're gonna kind of take it, you know, and kind of fix some of those things? But the basic gist of my feelings on it are I am intrigued. And for me, the single biggest selling point that I have is that Micah and I stayed up very late after that third time that we saw it. And I mean, I was like, it was like 130 in the morning or something. You know, there was work in the morning and we were still talking through these theories. And I was really feeling like invested in where some of these characters were going and why and what was kind of driving that. And that was the moment where I texted you and I was like, okay, yeah, I like it. But it took me a little time. Yeah, you know, I think I was probably a little bit different than you. When I first saw it, I was sort of a wash and wow, this is different. I didn't really know what to think. It's a whole rating to use term for mash. And then I saw it a second time, well, Patrick and I had discussed it a little bit. And I think pilots can be difficult. Yeah. I think pilots are difficult to write. Pilots can be clunky. Pilots can be trying to find their footing. And I think that you've experienced some of that with this a little bit. I think that there's a little bit of clunkiness here and there. But I think ostensibly what they're doing is profound. And part of, I think, my own orientation with this show is that it's new. And that this isn't any kind of alien that we've seen before. But this is a shot in the arm that the series needs desperately. The series needs new pathways, new stories, new settings, new subjects, new creatures. Which is what we definitely get those. Yeah. And I'm really excited about that. And my second viewing, I remember I texted you and I was like, okay, I think I really love this. And I was like, I'm excited for the rest of it. And I'm over even some of the stuff that I have issue with that we'll discuss in depth later on. Yeah. It's still there, but I know what's coming. At least I think I know what's coming. And I think it's going to be really amazing. So I'm excited for that. But I will say this, the effects are amazing, the acting is stellar. The acting is fantastic. And I have to call out two people. And this is just by accident. Babu C. Say and Sidney Chandler. They were standouts. Babu C. Say took over every into the frame that he was in, just in his intensity and his focus as an actor. Without choosing the scenery at all times. Yes. And then Sidney, she came off so natural to me. Like she plays Wendy, even though Wendy's a hybrid, Android essentially. She plays Wendy so realistic. And that's something I noticed in this screening today is how real Sidney was playing this character. And her little subtle facial gestures or facial expressions. And she was selling this in a subtle way. And I think for me, Alien has always been about subtlety. Alien is never, when Alien works, it's about subtlety. And I think maybe some of my other concerns for this episode was things weren't played straight. They were played very like, oh, very like precious and every line. And some of that, the science seems very gobbledy-gook, like a little bit like Alien Resurrection. And I was kind of like, oh, I'm just playing it straight. Just give it to a straight. You know, we can handle this. We've seen Alien. But the characters diminish that. The characters are so good. I don't even think, like, I'm talking about it now because that's what we're here to do. But as I think back about this first episode, I'm thinking about the characters. And that's exactly where I want to be. This ship. Collected specimens. Five new life forms. Through distant planets. Monsters. We don't lock them down. That will lead to later. Yeah, the performance is in particular really elevate everything else. So for me, like that third time through when I started loving it, it was the performances. I was like, oh, actually, I really am feeling invested in these characters right now. And I think Jenny Chandler's performance as Wendy is a huge part of that. She has this amazing ability to believably be a child in an adult body without making it a joke, without resorting to kind of the easy physical affectations of what that would look like and making it kind of funny. I think, like she said to us, and she said in the panel as well, the idea of children are courageous. Children are honest. Children are-- Direct. Direct, and children are instinctual. And those are-- it's funny. If you just do those things, there's a child likeness to it. I almost said naivete. But in addition to that, the way that she plays having this access to not only an adult body, but like a superhuman adult body, it just feels the way that it would feel to have a kid do that. It's like she's in a playground. Yes. Her eyes are so expressive. Like I love it. She just has this really big open eyes. And a lot of the best shots in this whole thing are really just on her face. While she's sort of thinking, she's processing. Nobody's talking. She looks away from the camera and then she kind of looks to the camera. And she's able to transmit all of that, you know, just with her expression. And to me, that's a sign of a really great actor when you don't need a great dialogue to do a great job. And speaking of that, back to the Babu Sisai thing. First off, awesome, dude. In general, he's just awesome. And his performance as Moro is to me. Like, that is where a lot of my late-night conversations with my wife went. Because we were like so intrigued about what he was doing. What his motivations are. What he was doing. And to your point earlier about how he captures the screen, it is amazing because, like Sydney, it's when he's not saying anything. And you just, you know, you have this whole crew in the imagino kind of doing their stuff, being kind of, you know, quickly with each other. And then he's just this like rock in the center. And you just, it's almost like all of the other dialogue filters out. And you're just staring at this guy and you're like, what does he know? Like, what is driving him? Why is he, why is he like this? Not to get too deep into the themes because we're going to be doing a lot of that. But to me, a big key to me really enjoying this has been the idea of transhumanism and how that shows up in different places, right? We're given a few new types of characters, right? We have Morrow, who's a cyborg, which is a character who is human but has robotic parts. We have Wendy, who's a hybrid, which is a human, you know, mind inside of a synthetic body. And then of course, we have synthetics like Tang. In the beginning, who is creepy as hell. I don't know if that's another interesting conversation to have. He's very ash. Like, I just got. He's like, he's a worse than ash. He's more like, again, I've probably a little bit. He's a little bit. There's a little bit too morose for me. Like, we get it. We get it. But great performance. Yeah, but I mean, to me, don't forget, this is before alien. This is before the hyperdine models that we're used to. That's true. So I think it's actually, it makes sense that he would be very awkward. Like, he's like the most awkward kid in the class when you were growing up. You know, the kid who you'd always joke like, oh, this is going to turn out bad. You know, to me, that's kind of like what Tang was like. It's like they didn't quite figure out how to make them, you know, pass for these ship things yet. Maybe because of synthetics that they were putting on ships. We're really there more as science officers or as, you know, whatever. They weren't there to kind of make people feel comfortable. That's an interesting thing that we can, you know, get into another point. But the reason of bringing all these different kind of classifications up is because to me, like this, this idea of transhumanism, of going beyond the boundaries of like the kind of flesh and bone human that we know, is something that alien has always dealt with primarily implicitly, where we've had glimpses of that quite a lot. And in the prequels, it's been pretty explicit. But now it's like subtle and it's kind of suffusing this story in very real ways. One of my favorite ways, although, you know, we haven't seen this monster in action yet, really. But is this the Tiacellus eyeball monster, which to me is like instantly iconic. I think it's fucking so cool. Agreed. And what I love about it is it's like a transhumanist monster and that it takes over your mind and replaces your eyes. Like, you know, Adam said in our group chat, the windows to the soul. One of the windows is now a window to another house. It's a window of a monster inside your brain. So that idea of like, who am I? Where do I end and where does something other begin? That's something that I love. And it feels very appropriate for alien to me because the first film is very much about that. It's about parasitism, right? Yeah. It's about a foreign, you know, a hostile entity inside of you coming up and changing, you're transmogrifying you. And the alien looking human when it comes out is part of why it's so amazing. Because it's like, that's me, but it's not me. Yes. And I feel like that, you know, we talk about Noah Hawley looking for deep, thematic undercurrents. Like that works in this because I mean, even as wonderful and sort of natural and effervescent as Cindy Chandler is as Wendy, I still get a little scared thinking about her sometimes because I'm like, is that actually her in there? I think that really work, you know? And I think to your point, she's a little scared of herself. Yeah. Well, what am I? Who am I? She doesn't know, but she can make herself whatever she wants, which I think is interesting. But I want to jump back to the Tia Salas creature. And we've seen it in trailers at this point. It's got a cuteness to it, which is also terrifying at the same time. I mean, how many times, at least in my life, where I walk up to an animal, that little cute puppy, oh, hi. And it's barks at me and jumps at me. And so you think it's this cutesy thing, but it does not have cutesy motivations. It has motivations to survive and procreate. Yeah. And I don't know what this thing has in store. And also, we've only seen two of these things. We saw the little spider-like weird things. That's a super tick. Yeah, the super tick that drops down. And then you see the, we don't even see the Tia Salas in episode one. Yeah, we do. A lot, actually, not a lot. But we see flashes of it. Yeah, but you don't see it from its vision. Yeah, first, right? And then you don't see it the way you see that the super, the super tick. Right. You don't see it in action. Right, right, right. So you still have the Tia Salas that we're still getting to know the orchids. You see a little bit of that. And there's two other creatures. Yeah. Besides the Xenomorph. Is the Xenomorph one of the five? Yeah. I think so. It's interesting. And there's also a moment in this episode where there looks like there's more than five containers. There's a lot of boxes on that ship. There are. And they had 65 years to do it. And that's an interesting thing too. The whole 65 years. So is that ship 65 years old? Yeah. I don't know. How did that? Or has it been, you know, other people have been gathering them and then, you know, centralizing them and then the Maginot, which is an M-Class star freighter, right? Just like the Astromo. Wasn't picked it up or something? That's true. Yeah. I mean, yeah. We don't, we don't know. But this is what's exciting. It's like, what were they doing out there for that long? Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole film by itself. Yeah. The collection of these things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole. Which I hope we get to see more of because I feel like we're going to because they, you know, they save little flashes of stuff, right? Yeah. I have so many questions. I love having questions and I don't want answers. I want my imagination to answer them. Yeah. So as the show unfolds more, I really hope that Holly and his crew and his writers as we go on through the years, fingers crossed, just unfold more questions for us. What is this? Where did this come from? We don't really know what, what is this home world or some of these creatures from the same planet? Are they from different planets? I mean, look at Earth. We have millions of different creatures that are wildly different on this planet. Yeah. And hundreds that are being discovered every day. Yes. Yes. And one of the things, there's been some discussion about the T.S. cells looking cute. And I always bring up those really cute frogs in the Amazon's many different kinds that are so cute. And if you touch them, they will kill you. Yeah. Some of the most dangerous animals on the planet are jellyfish, right? And like not even the big ones, the little tiny little cute floaty guys are often the most poison. Yeah. Or even like certain, like, have you seen my octopus, my octopus teacher? I think you've seen them right? The documentary? Yes. The T.S. cells reminds me of like the size of the octopus in my octopus teacher. It's like if that octopus went rogue or went lethal, like, no, I'm not here to have fun with you. Yeah. I'm here to kill you. Yeah. So less more than kill you. I'm here to, you're going to live. I'm going to be, yes. Yes. I'm here to take you. Yes. That's scary. Yes. You know, more, you know, XX121 is my favorite monster ever and whatever. Like, obviously, that's, that's the best. But to me, there's something really interesting about a creature that doesn't need to look frightening to be frightening. Like, there's something really kind of unsettling about that. Absolutely. And to your point, like, poison dart frogs, they don't need to be intimidating looking because if you touch them or you ingest them, you know, you die, right? You know, see urchins. Like, all of these animals that, that they don't need to put the effort into being visually intimidating because if you touch them, you know, that doesn't matter if you were scared or not, you're going to be, you know, harmed. I think that's, that's really, really cool. I, I will say the super tick thing, I find kind of a disappointment, uh, visually. And also, I think because it should be so, yeah, it is a little bit easy and, and because it should be so scary, like the way that, when they're, you know, tied up to the pole, that feels like that should be a really terrifying moment. And it kind of, isn't. Yeah, it, it seems rushed a little bit. Um, I think part of what's work, what's not working with that is its CG, and it really looks like it does look like CG the way. I mean, bugs do move in a very sort of smooth fashion, but not as smooth as CG makes it. Yeah. So I would agree with you. Like, it's kind of creepy, but it's not real. It's, and it's obviously not real. Yeah. And, uh, but at the same time, neither is it T. S. Ellis, and that is fucking scary. Yeah. So I don't know if the T. S. Ellis is a combination of practical and physical or practical and digital. It might be like a little bit like Grogu, um, but yeah, it's going to be interesting, but I'm really interested in the orchid and I think they're not unveiling the rest of these creatures in these trailers. But we see these tiny little glimpses, and even for the orchid are so scary, like just the blood dripping from the bottom of the bulb. Yeah. It's like, what? Yeah. What happened? It's like a big, um, one of those plants that eat bugs. What do they call it? Interplant? Yeah. Or a Venus fly truck. Yeah. Interesting is what if a face hugger, face hugs someone that's infected by the T. S. Ellis or another creature, what does that xenomorph become? Yeah. That's interesting to me. That's a whole series of questions. And I'm ready and willing to talk about and enjoy a different kind of hybrid that's still within the boundaries of a xenomorph, but different. Yeah. We'll be right back after this break. This episode is brought to you by effects as alien Earth from creator Noah Holly and executive producer Ridley Scott effects as alien Earth is the first television series inspired by the legendary alien franchise and I could not be more excited as a lifelong alien fan. And the setup for this is a mysterious deep space to research vessel, the USC SS Imagino crash lands on Earth and Wendy played by Sydney Chandler and a group of tactical soldiers make a faithful discovery that puts them face-to-face with the planet's greatest threat and affects as alien Earth. And one of those, of course, we believe will be and have seen it in trailers is the xenomorph of the XX121. Yes, but we know there's also at least four other organisms that we haven't seen before and we have no idea what those are. I can't wait to see what they do with that. And speaking of expanding on things, you know, in the past, we've, of course, had William Dutani. We've had Seaksin. Now we have an Earth that is governed by five corporations. We have prodigy, wayu, lynch, dynamic, and threshold. We have cyborgs, which are humans with biological and artificial parts. We have synthetics, which we know and love, which are humanoid robots with artificial intelligence. And now for the first time, we have hybrids, which are humanoid robots infused with human consciousness. And Wendy, again, played by Cindy Chandler, is the first prototype of this new hybrid and she marks a new dawn in this race for immortality. Seaksin's Alien Earth premieres August 12 on FX and Hulu. I will say I really do appreciate that the XX121 that we get in this thing appears to be very much primarily practical. Like that's definitely, we heard a lot about the panel about the guy who played who played him, who is a Kiwi vegan, which is really just funny. And he apparently is a very nice guy and it does a great job in the costume. And, you know, but to me, the big issue that I'm feeling and one of the things that kind of helped me back a little bit on my first viewing was this idea of there should be, I think, some kind of like a sense of deference paid to the xenomorph that we know where it's like it's very different. You know, like all of these other organisms are really cool and really dangerous. But when the xenomorph is present, like to me, that should be utterly terrifying. That should be in a different way oblivion, like we always go back to, right? And in this, in this one, you know, we don't get very much time with it, but the time that we do get feels a little schlocky, like it's sort of a, it's a monster thing, you know. It's almost like, oh, there's the xenomorph here, you're expecting it here it is. And I think part of it, what pulls me out of the xenomorph in a couple of moments is when it's behind the glass door and it almost like, oh, shit. And it backs up, like someone's pulling the actor in the suit on his chair and the head looks like it was 3D printed. It doesn't look, it doesn't, it looks like it was snapped together. It doesn't look real. It looks clean. It doesn't look organic at all. And that, that was a problem for me, to be honest with you. Yeah. I would say, like, so far, the biggest thing that I'm, like, kind of hung up on is that, is the, is the xenomorph. Just because it's such an important thing to all of us, you know. And because we are now getting all these other creatures to, like, I just hope that the show reminds us of why the alien is so primally important and so terrifying. I do think in some shots, it looks really good. I like the mouth a lot. I think that looks really cool. But, you know, and again, Noah has said in multiple places that they're trying to make it look smoother, more kindness, more like, kind of, a beetle in this, which I think is a really cool idea. I do too. But we're going to see, you know, as this goes along, if that, if that works, right? Yeah. Yeah. And Noah also spoke about remystifying the xenomorph. Yeah. I don't really feel like they did that with episode. Not in this episode. If anything, they continue to demystify it. Yeah. But we'll see. We'll see where they go. I don't know. Much like you, this creature is really important to me, and it's all over the promotion for this. I get it. I understand it's on Earth, like I get, but I also feel like if you're going to remystify this thing, put it back in the dark, what's what's what's following you? I don't know. There's something following you. Where is it? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That's fucking scary as opposed to sort of what they've done with Romulus and what we've seen in episode one. It's here. It's here. It's here. Oh, look. Xenomorph. Xenomorph. You mystify this thing. Yeah. So we'll see where they go. Yeah. I mean, remember, it's a pilot, you know, like there's a long, a long time to go, you know, in the season. Oh, for sure. Seven hours left. And I, you know, I think Noah Hawley's instincts are in general really incredible. And I think, you know, that's something that we're going to see. I got to say also, Jeff Russo's score, especially seeing it in Hull H, which again, has the biggest speaker of some planet Earth. I mean, it's literally going to like rock concert. The score was like so loud and so front and center. And it was really just glorious. I mean, you know, we've listened to it. We've had them on the show. We both really enjoyed the score a lot. Seeing it in context, for me, really like locked in that I think this is a great score. I really do. I think they, Jeff and Noah really are on a wavelength together, you know, in a lot of moments in this that, you know, as a composer of myself, I might have scored differently personally. The way that Jeff approached it, I'm like, oh, that's really good for this scene. Like making things kind of sound freaky when they're actually not. Like a great example of that is when they're transferring all the consciousnesses, which I think is a great shot. I love that, you know, that whole montage, it's not a montage, that whole extended sequence where the camera is kind of moving in and out. Yes. It's kind of a montage, yeah. Yeah. It's just one shot. Like the kind of pulling in and then somebody else is there and then going back. And then there's this beautiful moment where the camera kind of goes under the table and it's tracing that, you know, the blue line, which is doing whatever, and the music there is very unsettling. It's funny that we talked about Michael Levi's score for Under the Skin because that moment actually has a little under the skin that has stuff going on because that kind of very sparse percussion kind of echoing, very kind of creepy strings. And it's taking something that actually on its face is a happy thing when you think about it. I mean, what's happening is these kids who are dying, these terminally ill children are being given new life, you know, so like, I think most people probably would have interpreted that as like a good thing. They're watching Peter Pan, they're, they're going to get a second lease in life. But by scoring it like that, it is, it is, it's giving us all of those little cues in our brain that like something's not, this might not have a happy ending to it, you know. Yeah. There's also something interesting too. And I think Micah brought this up. It's interesting that they are being put to sleep with a flower on their chest as if they're dying. As if they're dying, almost like it's a funeral, right? And the way that that boy Cavalier kind of gives them the flower, it's almost like they got to kind of choose what they die with. Very interesting. It is very interesting. I think that I find the lost boys fascinating, fascinating. And I do like this idea that boy Cavalier, which I do not like the name at all, I think it's ridiculous. But maybe he's giving himself that name, which would make sense, which is why it's ridiculous. That's why it's ridiculous. Because it's a trillion here. I can be called whatever I want to. But he's enthralled with, he is the Peter and the Peter Pan story, and he is giving these children new life. We can live, you can live forever on this island, much like Neverland. I mean, he is head over heels committed to this narrative. And it works for him. And what's going to be interesting is to see that narrative start to correct because it will. Yeah. You know, and he's drunk on himself, like millionaires and trillionaires and billionaires are. They think that they're God. They think they can do no wrong. They think that they have sway on everything, and you see that in his eyes. The actor plays it so well. He's great. He's great. He's great. You just got the little smirk that little, and he almost reminds me a little bit of Neander Wallace. There's this parallel there between them, even in what he's wearing. He's a robot. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's fascinating. And I'm interested to see his empire burn, which is what I think is going to happen. We don't know. We've not seen more than the first episode. So yeah, I'm very interested to see where this goes. Yeah. Samuel Blanken is an actor that I don't know if I knew of him before this came out. I'm really impressed with his performance. It's funny. We've been talking a lot before this came out because there have been little leaks of things here and there. And we've seen things here and there. And we've been talking about the names of the characters and about how ridiculous they are on paper if you don't have any context for them. And Boy Cavalier is a great, I mean, I made fun of that a lot. You know, once we found out that was the name of one of the main characters. And I got to say now seeing him, I'm like, oh, I get it. That's to your point. That's why it's ridiculous is because he basically is a god. He can do whatever he wants. And he is the boy genius. And he's remaking people in his image now. And his company, Prodigy, they have the logo, which is the teddy bear for Peter Pan. But it's this punk rock for it because he's a move fast and break things, Silicon Valley kind of guy. And I think it's a very believable archetype. And it's funny because in the press photos and things that have come out, you know, we were all talking about how like Samuel Blankin as Boy Cavalier just had like, you know, a kind of punchable face, you know, which is, you know, not to say he's a very handsome guy. Not knocking him. But, you know, the way that he's kind of. He has that look. That's like a punchable smirk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And when I got to say in motion though, I'm like, oh, it really works. Like he is a gross person who is drunk on himself and is pretending to give two shits about other people. But does not. And in the panel today, you know, he was talking about, he was like, you know, it's really, it's a, it was quite a feeling to look around the room and realize you own not only everything but everyone in that room. Yes. And there's very few people who ever get to experience that, not like it's a great thing to experience. But, you know, very few people reach the level of wealth and notoriety where they just basically can do whatever they want. Yeah. I mean, even in this, you know, it's so funny. We hear about Wayland Dutani. And we hear about, you know, Dutani herself and how about how she's going to be upset, you know, that he's going to keep the ship and he's like, she can sue. And that's true. That's what these people do. Like they just, they just get away with lawsuits because it doesn't matter. Yeah. They get tied up in years and then they have to pay five million dollars and that is less than bus fare. Which is like nothing. Yeah. It's like a, yeah, bus fare. Right. But the, what's interesting is with Boy Cavalier, the idea that you, you put forth in terms of him looking around the room and realizing I own everything, the entitlement that comes with that. Yeah. No, I am untouchable. No one can do anything to me. You're, you're above the law. You make the law. The law buys you or you buy the law, actually. And that's a scary place to be. And I think in some ways we're living in that in our own way. But yeah, I think Holly is whip smart. I think my hope going forward is that subtlety takes a little bit more space as opposed to sort of the, the, it's just so operatic right now. It's so like, oh, we're doing this. We're doing this. Oh, we're doing like, let's go, I hope it goes more subtle. And I think that's probably going to happen because when things start falling apart, you can't sit on your throne. Right. It's calling you to action that the money that you think is insulating you from the world stops insulating you from harm from danger. Because you have set things in motion that your money cannot stop. Yeah. And also, you know, I think part of that kind of operatic, semi clunkiness that we feel in this pilot episode, I think comes out of the fact that they kind of had to shove the exposition in to give us, you know, these are the rules that this universe is going to abide by. You know, I'm usually kind of allergic to that. And I wish there could be less of it in this. But at the same time, I think they did a good, we have to live in this thing for eight hours. So like, we kind of have to understand some of the rules from the outside about what's going on with these corporations are doing blah, blah, blah. I think that, you know, watching it now quite a few times, I think they do a pretty good job of kind of moving us through that so that we understand, you know, kind of what the stakes are a little. But if it continues like that, that's going to be a problem. Like, if the second episode, if they're still explaining, oh, this is why your body is like this. And this is why, you know, there was too much of that in this for me. And I think for me, sci-fi audiences tend to be really smart. I mean, I think audiences in general are really smart. I just felt like this was talking down to me and I think, you know, they started off this episode with scrolls, or not really scrolls, but like titles. This is what's going on. This is what's happening. Tell us about these companies in these titles. Yeah. So you don't have to strap or bridle your cast and the dialogue with this because it was just so clunky. Yeah. And I think on the ship, on the Maginot, and they're explaining these things, it just felt like, why don't they know this before? Yeah. Right. Do these companies come about? It just felt so, it was really clunky. And, you know, I think probably by episode three, I won't even remember this anymore. Yeah. But because don't forget the proportions of this are very different, right? Yes. So like Avatar is a great example of a movie that I don't like and that I think is one of the worst issues with it is the fact that it's just streams of exposition, like all the way through the end of the movie. It's just people talking about why things are happening. Like, that's, you know, if this ends up being like that, we're like six of the eight episodes or like this, then I'm going to hate that. Yeah. But again, I don't think that's what's happening. I think we're kind of getting the stakes. Now, you know, and they do an okay job of kind of dressing it up with the whole, you know, like, oh, he's, you know, this guy didn't go to school. He's a sociology, whatever. Like, get out of the way. Let's get to the real bones of the story. You know, something else just funny, it's something that we had been, there'd been some controversy about in our, you know, group green room was the whole, like, you know, Katana on, which isn't. He's back. It's not. It's a paper cutter. Which I love. I know I love that. It's so fine. I'm excited to see how people react to that because, you know, everybody's been like, oh, it's a stupid. It's like a lead of battle angel or something. But it's actually kind of the point is that it's a little kid with a weapon, you know? When she pulls it from the paper cutter, it's this big. When she puts it on her back, it's like this big. It changes. Does it? A little bit. Yeah. Well, that's okay. And I think, you know, as I, I just want writers to trust audiences more. When I watch things like House of the Dragon Game of Thrones and other foundation, which is really layered in lots of, it's not so exposition heavy. Yeah. Yeah. And I just felt like with the exposition and some of these things, certainly with, like, they could have done without, you don't need to explain Wendy to us. Wendy's a hybrid. How that happened? We don't care how that happened. We don't need to know what she can and can't do. Show us when those times come. When she's in danger, she runs or she leaps or whatever. And as opposed to the beating, oh, she can do this and this. And I understand that they're, they're bringing, they want larger conversations to happen around that. But I feel like it's just be smarter than that. But again, I don't want to also get hung up on these minutia because I still really enjoy it. And I cannot wait for the rest of the show. But I think it keeps us honest as a show to talk about things that may not work for us. Of course. And we want the show to work. We want the show to be successful. We want five seasons of the show. And I think that happens when we discuss things in an open and honest way. Yeah, completely. And yeah, like to your point, none of this is saying, at the end of the day, we both actually really enjoyed this. Absolutely. And we're very invested in it. But you know, we're, people listen to us because we're honest about these things, you know. You know, I think what's going to be really cool is to look back when this is over, when this season of this show is over, and to see how these things played out, like all of our theories, which we don't really have time to get into now, but about like what Marrow's motivations are, right? All of these, it's going to be really cool to look back into like, know these characters now. I mean, also Timothy Allefant is amazing. I think that his, so like the first time I saw it, I remember thinking, oh, it's kind of like they're doing a Roy Batty thing with the whole bleached blonde, you know. This time though, there's something really interesting about him and that we're introduced to him as like very benevolent. I mean, he doesn't want to kill the scorpion, you know, he's saying, well, have you thought about how scary it is for the scorpion? But then his whole monologue that he delivers to Wendy and the, and that drop ship that they're in, where he's talking about, you know, the cycle of life and about predators and prey and about, you know, how part of being an animal means being eaten. It was like really scary in the way that he delivered it. It's very interesting. His facial expressions too, you, you, you look at him the way in aliens when he's like, hello, Bishop and Bishop looks up. Yeah. He's got that same, what's going on inside this thing? Yeah. Because it's almost like he's been thinking that the whole time and then finally he had a chance to kind of say because the way that he says it, he's not like realizing it. He's not, you know, extemporaneously being like, oh, I'm going to tell you something. It's like he was already thinking that and then he just sort of opens his mouth and it comes out. And again, it illuminates that, like, there's interlives to these artificial intelligence as of various kinds in this universe, which is really scary and some of the best Bishop moments, I think, for such a lovable character are when you're not really sure if he is or he isn't, you know? Absolutely, and when I think about Morrow and Kirsch, there's this idea that they're playing with that Morrow is the evil one and Kirsch is the good one. I don't know if that's necessarily not that I want to speak in binary terms, but I feel like Kirsch has some things up his sleeve that we're not prepared for. I would very much agree with you on that. And I also think Morrow does too, which is part of why I'm like obsessed with this character because I'm like, what is going on? Yeah. And he programmed this ship to hit, you know, where it did, like, how involved has he been in that? And also just briefly, you know, the other rising that he endures on the ship. Like that, I mean, that, for all, at the beginning of the other show, I think, suffers a little bit from being a little bit too slavishly recreating in a stromo, from kind of moving too quickly, you know, whatever. Paul would have hung up on that, on recreating things, and we've got to show them the past first. You don't need to do that. No, you don't. But they did a nice job of it, but it's just necessary. And what I love, though, is even in that moment, I mean, it's sort of like, you know, kind of homage. But then you have Morrow, you have, Bob, you say, who's delivering like a completely authentic and honest performance. Yes. That really transcends that. Yes. And makes it not feel like kind of a fan film recreation. It makes it feel like a new story. And what I love is the way that he is singled out, right, when they're talking about retrieving the specimens, saying we lost a lot of good men, that happens in the context of him, you know, looking like an other of, you know, the guy who is saying that to him had just, you know, what do you say right before that, do you remember? The Scottish guy. I don't remember, but I do know that Morrow is like, do we need to lock you in your quarters? Yeah. I love that moment. Yeah. Yeah. This is the mission. These specimens are why you're here. Yes. And if you have a problem with that, but it's subtle. Yeah. It's like, I am in control. Yeah. You can make fun of me all you want. But I am in control of this mission. Yes. It's so cool. It's amazing. Morrow acts with mother is also really good because there's almost like a synthetic aspect to it. Like he kind of reads like David when David's on the ship in Covenant, you know, for example, and he's talking to mother. Yes. And he's very kind of fluent with mother because they're kind of the same thing, or not the same thing, but they're in the same family. There's, it's interesting because Morrow, of course, is not synthetic. He's just a human with augmented parts, but there's a fluency with like this synthetic ecosystem that he operates in that makes me be like, maybe there's more going on. Like, maybe they didn't just mess with his body when they fixed it. Maybe they messed with his mind. Yes. And that's one of the things like, what does he think he's becoming? And I think becoming is a big undercurrent in this show. Yeah. Wendy is becoming. Yes. Morrow is becoming. The creatures are turning, are becoming us, or we're becoming them. There's this play between that, and I love that, that there's something inside of you pulling you out. Yes. Years ago, my first experience with an edible, I woke up at one thirty in the morning feeling like there was this presence pulling my energy or my soul or whatever out of my body. And I was like, if I don't, if I close my eyes and go to sleep, it'll take me. I'm serious. I've never been that edible. I've never been that scared in my life. And can you imagine now, imagine that happening with a creature, but also we have creatures in this planet, the ants that are taken over by the, oh yeah, but you know, we have cordyceps, right? Cordyceps, yeah, that make these things walk up, or the cordyceps that make dead bodies walk. Like you'll see video of these husked out creatures walking in the field, and it's not them. Yeah. Even saying that gives me the chills. Yeah. And this is what we have in store for this show. It is. But even things like the, you know, the cycles of life, right, like talking about cordyceps, right? That's, that's, that's fungi, right? Like, you know, they can reproduce as males, they can reproduce as females, they can sporulate, they can do all, all of these things that like we just can't, we just don't have the vocabulary as humans to understand, and that's just with us all the time. So to have, you know, these alien creatures that can do things like that that we're just not ready for. Again, I think it's great. And again, this is why I keep going back to like, oh, I do like the shows, because like, I mean, I'm like, I'm, I'm like, I'm so I'm like, you're talking about it, you know? Well, I love it so far. I mean, yeah, I have some issues, but overall, my, I can't wait, bring it. It's really good. It's really good. And I think we can wrap with that. Yeah, we can wrap with that. Thank you, everybody, so much. We wish we could show you what we're seeing. You know, right now, outside there's like a hundred people in the grass, kind of like those old episodes of Total Request Live, you know, from Times Square. This is amazing. This installation has been just, just amazing. I can't wait to do it again tonight. Yeah, it's been amazing. It's so cool. And this whole experience has been unforgettable. And I cannot wait to do this after show. I can't wait for the rest of our amazing team to see it. It's gonna be awesome. I can't wait to hear what all of you think that are listening right now, you know, keep us in the loop on how you're doing as well as you're kind of, you know, processing this. And there's gonna be some great conversations to be had. So much in store. We're really busy. It's probably the busiest time of the of our lives as a podcast, self-stated. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. To find out more information about perfect organism, the Alien Saga podcast, please go to www.perfectorganism.com. If you'd like to support the show, please go to www.perfectorganism.com/support. Thank you. Hey, everyone. Patrick here with a little bit of cool news to share. We are launching unearthed and alien earth after show. So it's the first time we've done anything like this and we really want you to be a part of it. It's going to be on our YouTube channel and it's going to air right after each episode goes live, starting with the two episodes series premiere on August 12th and then ending with a big finale episode where it's going to be a roundtable, et cetera, at the end. We have lots of fun segments picked out. We have maybe some special little goodies in there and we're going to be featuring your voices because you're going to be there with us and the way you're going to be there with us is by subscribing to us on YouTube, hitting the notifications icon and hopping over right after the episodes go live. We will be there within 10 to 15 minutes or so of the episode wrapping and we would love to have you there to participate. Thanks, everybody.