#278 Nima Kermani - 9 Properties by 27

Hello legends today. I catch up with a very young cub member named Nima Kumani Nima he's only 27 years old and he's already built a nine property portfolio And he helps others do it through his company Kumani Capital Kumani Capital is really different because it's kind of an all-in-one agency They help you get the the loan They help you find the actual property through their buys advocacy and they help with their accounting practice They help you structure the ownership of your property to make sure it is optimal for whatever your situation is Nima is a young inspiring guy Who's bucked the trend that you can't invest in property as a young person these days and is proven that you can Hope you enjoy the show So I was just reading we went to the same high school Yeah, well, where's the what what it review for the listeners who don't know where I went to high school but but what what you did you graduate? 2016 2016 so that would make you what 20 27 27 exactly I think you're older than you're brother. Did you guys know each other in a high school? We did actually yeah, yeah, it was actually goes back to when um When you were starting cub I saw it online and I was like oh, do you think this is something I could join You know, I was just 18 year old all the ambition but no experience and Tom was like oh, I think they're looking for people a bit more experience Is that when you first found out about it? Yeah, that's true. So you've been out of it like just out of high school I was following it all along and soon after I started listening to your podcast when they started They were big motivation for me to get into business. Yeah, really. Yeah, that's a great story Well, you can thank Laura for that one. That was Laura's This podcast is very much Laura's baby um But that's also so you've you want to join when you 18 you've been a member now for how long? Ah nearly two years. Yeah, and how's it been it's been amazing like having that network especially being someone young You know that what you can learn right now and adapt and change is is essential to success good on you That's awesome to hear today's episode really want to focus on the concept of a building a property portfolio in a relatively short period of time Like you are super young you're only 27 and you've already built a what was it a nine property portfolio um A lot of people would want to do that too You know, and I think we should talk about how you actually did that Like practically how you actually did it so others can follow in those steps Because in this country We're so overtaxed that pretty much the best way to make money is is through property You know it helps with the attacks it Medicaid income tax and you have huge gains historically. So I think it's just a really important topic Yeah, it's funny it taxes one thing but essentially I think the key of what makes property Amazing is like infinite leverage when you use a tier advantage You know there's not many assets you can borrow five times against your deposit and then once that goes up You can then borrow against that to get into the next asset And I mean that's there's a lot about the asset class and itself the banks are willing to lend so much and leverage so much Against real estate in Australia. So that in itself gives you that confidence that Okay, let's give this a shot especially if the the option is either we're going to be wealthy or work till the age of 65 I took that decision Let's go for you know just like many start a business that was like for me before I started my business I was like I'm going to go as aggressively as possible to build a portfolio that I can hopefully retire on and not the You know so distant future. Yeah, it's interesting the concept like you're right. You know you buy property it increases in value you can borrow against that property and and use that borrowing to start business buy more property Really invest in whatever the but but I think something that a lot of people forget about is that you actually can't borrow against the property if you can't service That that amount of money. So And there's kind of two parts to property to growing your wealth of property I guess which is one yes acquiring more property or crying a property But the second is being able to service the loans on future properties which means you need to earn income you need cash flow And and a great way to do that is obviously business and well business is probably Actually, it might not actually be the best way to do it because if you've got a small business the banks don't like you You know, I mean like once your business gets bigger than they cool with you But when your small business still the banks don't like but lending to you so sometimes actually having a high paying job for a really good company is a is a easier way for the banks to And you to service your loans and build your property portfolio which is good because it means it doesn't matter who you are you could be a You could be successful in the corporate world you could be successful in the business world and Property is a very good viable worth creation option for you exactly and that's the other reason we think it's great is that really anyone can get into the market whether you're You know an 18 year old or like I was it to 21 year old time with only you know $40,000 deposit you can get in or whether you're someone that's I'm ultra wealthy and I think the key to you know you ask about building a large portfolio It's I think a large part of it is the lending and the servicing because the property can be as great as it can it can grow Double or triple but if you can't get into the one after that and the one after that you're really limited to the growth you can see Like for example, I always use the example you rather have you know five percent growth on five million on assets then 10 percent growth on one million So it's like it's not so much about how superior the asset is it's more so about how do you continue to grow? So you see a bigger nest egg Grow, you know and that kind of like the domino effect is stronger. Yeah, yeah, and so you're business There's a lot of mortgage brokers. There's a lot of buys agents like I'm friends with a lot of them We think we have mutual friends as well And what makes your business different like what gap did you see in the market that you thought okay? This this is a viable Business concept that can stand out amongst the rest Yeah, great question. I started out as a mortgage broker and I was often annoying for me because What one broker could offer is almost similar to what you could offer It's just who has a better rate and then it was almost like we were told I that's all about relationship But then it's like how are harder? Am I going to work on a relationship if if what I can offer is the same as others? So then we were getting a you know Proofles as brokers and then we're seeing clients weren't buying the best investment properties and at the time I'd bought you know Five myself so then I thought I'm doing a better job of most these people than doing it Why don't I actually put myself on a position where we're getting the loan for them and finding them the property? So that's when it became mortgage-breaking and you know, buys agency. Yeah, so and then later on it became I don't know if you saw like lately like in order to enhance your borrowing you can buy in like trust and companies So we'd be referring a lot of work to an accountant and then we thought why don't we actually just start an accounting business Which funnily enough we did with some cub members that now it's fully integrated So they come they get the strategy the loan the investment the accounting structures set up and then kind of rinse and repeat that process And that way they stay within the family and then when a broker comes along and says oh we are for this right My clients aren't even interested because they're getting so much value because we're actually getting them wealth We're not actually doing a transactional service anymore. Yeah, so you kind of built yourself a bit more of a defensible moat So like someone could have a slightly better right But the overall benefit of going with you guys maybe outweighs that yeah exact points your lump is in or however better it is exactly right And was that something that you sat down like Is it you plan that purposely or you kind of fell into that No, I did plan it purposely. I mean I was working Full-time up until like 23 only a good income and I was always scared to start a business. Where were you working? I was working a sure financials a broker then I went into stock Broking funnily enough because I wanted to see what the other side of finance was like and then while I was doing That I was still doing the mortgage broken on the side, but I was never confident enough to go fully into mortgage breaking because I was like it's just such a competitive landscape at this point But then when I did fully go into my business that's when I said okay if I do the buyers advocacy to That's my point of difference and then I was like okay That's a product I can believe in and be different and then I you know left corporate to go all out on that And did you learn like being in the jobs before you started your business? Did you learn a lot of things like for example from sure and whose I think they've been one of the top mortgage brokerages for a long time and did you learn a lot from like your career that you could then implement into your business and give it inside or or what was the benefit of that Every business needs IT services Imagine all the new technologies that are now available to help you save money and improve your efficiencies in your business And that's why I want to shout out today's podcast sponsor HD IT they have been cub members for so many years and work with dozens of members They can help you lower your IT costs with a free audit And improve your company efficiency and ability to grow they are incredible I've known them personally for many years and I highly recommend if you want to save money and improve your productivity go to HD IT to find out how I'd say two big things. I mean working at shore as an 18 year old was amazing You're seeing all these people 10 15 years older than you how they operate how they make money and it was just like I almost felt like uni was was a joke at that point being around these people how much I was learning every day I was just waking up with such adrenaline to go to work and the other thing was like Obviously, that was the rise of when podcasts and people creating content on YouTube so I was able to see like investors who would have 200 properties by the time they were 40 and I was just researching them in and out and I think those two things essentially were the biggest part in what helped at that point, you know, understand that, yeah. Well, the, like, the owner, you know, but the owner of sure and me just bought houses right or not right next to each other, but like six hours a part basically. He's a very good guy. He's very successful guy. He would have been a great, he would have been a great person to watch operate a business like, you know, from the age 18 that I can see how that would be cute. And so then tell me, so you got nine properties, you're only 27. That's pretty much most people's dream. I mean, most people's dream is to have one property by the time they die. You know, having nine by 27 is a very good result. Can you walk us through how you actually achieved that and how someone else could do? Yeah, yeah, that's obviously a big question how long do we have, right? But I'll just tell me, like, so you got your first one, what was that property? How did you get then, how did you use that then to get the second? How did your business when it start tie into the process? Yeah, perfect. Great question. So I wanted to get into property ever since I was 18, but I quickly went as a broker, you're not going to be able to because brokers are self-employed. You need two years financial sales. Always there like, I wish I was a pair YG because if you had two pay slips, banks will lend you. So as soon as I landed my first pair YG job, I saved enough money to take advantage of the first home lender's deposit scheme. So even though I had extra money, I got into my first property with $30,000 unit in neutral bay. And then shortly after that, I used deployed my other capital to buy two more units in Brisbane. And then essentially from there, I didn't, that required $200,000. And that's what I always say, I built this book for you. What required $200,000? That's those three units, the deposits for those three units. Those deposits in the stamp duty for those three units. And that was essentially most money. I built my portfolio not more than 300,000. Like those three then gave me, I was able to cash out $250,000 of that after two years. They had enough growth. In their capital gains? So when property goes up, you can borrow up to 80% of the new value. So we value those after two years and they've done really well, touch wood. And then I was able to leverage upon that. And then that helped me get the fourth, fifth and part of the sixth one. That's when I put an extra 150 to get the sixth one. And where were you getting this money from, just from yours? Were you saving like a maniac or making a lot of money? That's a big part of it. When I talk about people with large parts of its mentality, like I was willing to do anything, I mean, at the time when I was 18 to the age of 22, I worked like three different jobs because I already knew that if I could build this portfolio in a quick amount of time, it was going to stop me from having to work from the ages of like 35 to 65. So I was willing to do anything. You know, I was willing to work at Caltechs, get up five in the morning and then chewed her after work, you know, chewed her kids. And then on the weekends, I'd be, you know, tennis coaching. So it's just that mindset that was kind of like, I'll do anything it takes to get to that extra property as soon as possible. Because I almost saw that every dollar I saved now is almost like $100 in 15 years. So I was like, you know, what if that's the case, why don't we do everything we can to get as much of it and to invest it? And where did you get this kind of mindset from what were you, do you get that from your parents or from idols that you looked up to? Yeah, I think actually a lot, a big part of it comes from parents because they were immigrants and they came here and they always worked hard. And even when they had money, they didn't spend it like they would, they would prefer to invest it. And for them, they would only ever get excited if something was a good deal. Not that I now that they had the money that, you know, even like myself, like I had, I went to a public school up until you know, and then only could then therefore mean private schools. So just going through that motion and seeing that what money did and how it rewards you later in life, I was like, okay, well, I have the privilege of being born in this country. Well, I'm not going to waste that. I'm 18 schools done. I'm going to work as hard as I can to now take that to the next level. Yeah, I really like that mindset that that's very much like the kids of migrant mindset. You know, because you're close enough to them, like to the migration where you've seen what it's like to have not much money. And you're close enough to the general, you close to the generations who came with nothing. And you know, it's not just money. Like when you migrate, you come with literally nothing. Like you know, money, but you don't have English and you don't have friends and you have no network and you're you're a lost puppy. But you're close enough to them that you you saw how when you're their child, you saw how hard they worked, not just for you to like go to a good school, but even just for you to be in this country. And so you kind of like, well, if they did, if they were able to do this with, you know, with essentially nothing from where they came from, then surely I can do more with what I've been given. You know, like, and that's like I had that mindset when I was when I was like very young because I you could see it like it's the kids of migrants, kids of migrants mindset. We relate to that. We do have that advantage in a way because sometimes I feel like people say what's key and I think like the less you have as a kid, the better because then you're more hungry to go get it in the world. So sometimes you're opposite of spoiling your kids is actually the best for the might of the LA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Awesome. And yeah. And so you were so you were working a lot, obviously, sacrificing a lot of time. You're probably sacrificing a lot of money. It's by sacrifice. I don't mean sacrifice in the money. I mean, not spending it on things, you know, young people would typically spend it on like dates and restaurants and bars and alcohol. And was that impacting your life? Did you lose friends? You know, like, how was that impacting your life? It did really impact me from like the ages of 18 and 19 like because that's when you build your great group of friends like my group of friends from school, they're still friends, but I kind of distanced myself because then when they were traveling and going to schools and whatnot, I said, I don't care about any of that. I want to lock in. But then a later in life, I realized, you know, you life could end tomorrow. Even I'm likely at Kent's, you got to enjoy the process. And very quickly you'll burn out if all you're doing is work. So I realized there's a way to enjoy it. So I did, you know, I would like every other young kid in their 20s did go out on weekends, have fun and whatnot. But I guess it was really important. You know, I wasn't splurging in the clubs. It was all about how to how to utilize pre drinking, you know, drink, drink car. You're drinking positively. Like that was the opposite to me. And, and you know, so a lot of people might be listening and thinking, okay, well, you bought, I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you bought your properties, but the market has like doubled since 7 years ago. And it's probably more than doubled in a lot of places. And, but so a lot of people might say, yeah, okay, but I can't, I can't get in the market anymore with $40,000 deposit or $30,000 deposit. If you were starting your portfolio today, how would you enter? Yeah, it's funny. You say that because it's all about it's not just people in Sydney think, okay, how do I get into Sydney? But it's like you don't invest where you can live first, you know, a lot of the time it's like I only just moved out of home myself, you know, for a large part I was living in, you know, houses with four other boys, only paying $200, $300 rent. So it's like people here this position girl, he must have, you know, been living in a nice place. No, I only now I've actually moved into a place that I would call nice at all. So the key is investing into state. I mean, when I was going back to my story on how I got to nine, I bought those properties in Brisbane and then leverage those and now we're going into Melbourne. So it's about picking and I was just bought my last three in Melbourne. So it's about picking the right market. So you would be surprised like in Melbourne right now where we're looking at in some of the nicest areas. You can buy, you know, one or two bedroom units in like low density blocks, you know, so there's still a good portion of land attached to it, from the four, $500,000. So you'd be surprised that you don't need a lot to enter into those types of assets and they haven't grown in over 10 years. So we think that's definitely opportunity and value there and very different to how much something like that would be in Sydney and the five kilometres from Melbourne CBD. Yeah, yeah, you can't do that in Sydney. And, you know, was this road to nine properties, was it smooth sailing or was there any failure or a large fail event that kind of punch in the face a bit? Yeah, I think I traveled the world a lot during that time. I took a year off and then that understanding what's required to live that type of lifestyle, I think very quickly. I came back and said, okay, I'm going to lock in for another big lump appeared that I can sustain that type of lifestyle. So I think understanding what you you went overseas and were like, shit, I like being rich, like I like having a good holiday and you came back, you were like, okay, but are we keep working? Is that what happened? Exactly, that's, that's the thing. That's a real thing. And it's funny, like, it feels like every five years, everything gets so much more expensive that I feel like, oh my god, if I'm not doing this, then I'm not going to even be able to afford it, you know, bear in ten years. Yeah, ever since COVID, especially travel, travel, good expensive. You know what else kills me kills my life? It's just our dollar. A dollar sucks so much, I go overseas and I'm like, I'm paying double for like everything, you know, but then you can either sit there and complain about it or you can be like, you know what, why don't I go earn American dollar or euro or pound? You know, like now we're planning, I'm planning to buy in January. And you know, because I'll trade in USD as well. And to look at opening a cup, so I could earn USD. So when I go overseas, I spend that money, no. We get killed at our currency shit. It is it is, but it's funny. I do still think Australia is like the best country when you think about it. Like I wouldn't sacrifice that much of my time to go and US or the pound and come back here. I feel like every time I go away we realize how much privilege it is. I mean, when I was in America they talked about how that's the best places in entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial capitalism. But then I feel like it's so hard to get into the market there. Like it's the amount of people that are working 24 hours in a day to get ahead. Whereas you, the average man is pretty chill, pretty lazy, I would say. So if you work relatively harder you can get so much more ahead. Yes, we pay a bit more in tax, but I do think living in America coming here now. I think it is actually easier to get ahead in Australia. I would say. Yeah, when you're here it's like you're competing in the commonwealth games, not the Olympics. Your competition isn't as savage. But when you win, you don't win a gold medal. It's not real gold. You're not going to be a good player. They're taking some of you gold off. The regulations and the taxes and even just the attitude towards entrepreneurship business and successes is really poor in this country. But you have less competition. So it's easier to get ahead. Maybe not easy to get ahead, but it's easier to beat other people. When you go to the US, you're not just in the Olympics, but you're in the finals. You're in the finals of the Olympics and there are savages there. Like there are people who are working more than you and sacrificing more than you. But the regulations are far better for business. The culture and the attitude towards success is far better for business. The laws and some tax systems are far better for business. And the benefit of AmeriCorps is in Australia, our tax system is our tax system. You're pretty much fucked everywhere. You can't go anywhere. You can't run away and get a bettex system. In America, you've got 50 states and they're essentially 50 countries. You can be like, "Oh, New York, you're not being good to me." As a successful person, "Oh my god, Miami." You're better there anyway, nicer people, better weather. It's like every state, it's almost its own country. Yeah, and you can wait for the mayor or the governor to change. You come back again, "Okay, New York's good again." Exactly. More flexibility. You probably experienced that with your business. You've been able to do so well in Australia. But at the same time, all those things are right about America. But you probably have a lot more competition there as well. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, yeah. When we go to America, which we will, there's a lot of things you have to look out for. Because yes, you could have a unique business model. Like Cubs model is very unique globally. And our IP and the way we operate as a business is very unique. The concept of networking isn't. But the way we do the networking, the way we operate as a business is. So that's an advantage. But we don't have as much money as the Americans. So when we go there, someone else could see what we're doing. And they could very well spend a lot more money on doing it. Now, they've got the advantage of money, but they won't know how we operate. But they will learn it fairly quickly. I'm sure it won't take people that long. It might take two, three years. But it's risky. Also, there's more members clubs there. There's more people that are. It's more dangerous. It's probably riskier. And also, you don't know anyone. The advantage of starting a business where you are is that you have the support of your broader network. Starting a business when you know no one, like if you're a migrant, you just move in, you start a business. It's a lot harder than starting it. Even for me to start Melbourne, where I knew. I hadn't even been to Melbourne until I started looking at Cal. I literally never had gone. Starting Melbourne was so much harder than starting Sydney. Because I didn't know anyone. I didn't know who to hire. I didn't know. People didn't know me. So the word of the company doesn't spread as much. When you're from a certain place, your brother's friends in school know about your business. Your auntie's uncle's cousins, friends, and networks start talking about your business. The people that work for you tell their friends. It spreads. It does actually spread. Whereas when you're an independent in a place, it doesn't. And if you went from. If we went to America, everyone would be like, "Oh, what's that Australian members club for business owners?" Is that cool? I don't know. Well, they think being an Australian members club is cool. I'm not sure. I don't know. So yeah, it would be a risk. Yeah, their perception is almost like. We're almost irrelevant. If something's happening there, they don't see it as. And it's kind of like the American ego as well, it says almost. Like they don't see something as being on the real stage unless it's in America. Like it doesn't matter how great your product is in Australia. It's not in America. So is it really that good? Yeah. I was actually listening to Russell Crowe on Joe Rogan the other day. And he was. He says I'm interesting. I'd never thought about it. And I thought it was really interesting. He's like, "When you live in Australia, you're really looking out at the rest of the world." Like a lot of your attention. You're looking out at what's happening at the rest of the world. So you're looking outwards. But when you're an American, you look only inwards. You basically don't care about the rest of you. You're not looking at the rest of the world. Your sports are all the American sports. Your culture is only American culture. You're looking in ways. And obviously that can be a very big disadvantage. But it's just an interesting. It's just an interesting difference in the dynamics of the culture. It is very interesting. I think it's good for everyone to go to that. Because you can see how businesses on a different scale. They think differently. Exactly. I learned very quickly when I was there as well. We were helping a company raise capital at time. Because our business went through a business. We were through a phase where we would help VC companies over in the early stage try to get funding from venture capital. Completely different landscape. Like kids, very hard to even get someone to write like a $1 million check. Whereas in America, they were only willing to look at an opportunity if they could write a $10 million check. They went into. Like if you went to them and said, "Oh, we want one million or five million, almost a lot of the venture capital funds. They won't even interest sitting you." So it's very interesting the level they play. That's because they work off the same principles as when you're investing in property. So, for example, if I have $20 million to deploy into property, I could buy $21 million apartments and essentially have $20 million worth of assets. But I've got 20 assets that I have to manage and keep up with. Which is a lot of, I mean, a lot of fixing fucking lights and door handles and water leaks. Or I could have $4 million dollar assets. Which may have a greater return on investment but have a lot less upkeep because I've got a lot less assets to maintain. So when they're deploying money, they're like, "Okay, I can invest $1 million here, but it's going to have the same amount of admin and workload as investing $10 million. I'd rather invest $10 million because it's going to be less work. So it's a greater return for less effort." And that's why they do that. Because they've got the bank accounts to do it. Spot on. And especially with those bigger funds that they've had those run rates where they've created unicorns. They're not interested in anything less than that now. You know? So they know what investment it takes to create a business like that. So it's almost like their alignment as well. What were you doing in America? I never asked. So why'd you go? It's funny. Cause on my stock broken background, for a period of time, our business, we were raising money for companies like pre-IPO and IPO. It was just something that I got the door open with and I was very good at selling that to my database of clients. Especially because a lot of those would go onto the market generally 20, 30% higher than what we were doing the capital raise at. So then opportunity came in the US for me to help a startup raise money. So I thought that's something that I'm definitely going to take up because I value, as I said, during that time, I was valuing the journey. So I was able to have my team here continue around the business while I kind of went on this side quest and spent six to nine months raising money for this tech startup. What was that experience like? Yeah, it was amazing getting to travel around the US, realizing how hard it is as you said to get your foot in the door. So that was why very quickly I came back, blessed that I had something great here and could grow it. Because if someone doesn't know you don't have a reputation there, it's very hard to build that out of nowhere. You realized that a great business or a great reputation is not something you can build in three to six months. You've got to, I've always been willing to stay there for the rest of my life if I wanted to make it work in America. So it's not something you can go for your business and do something small there and then come back. It's, and that was a big learning curve, all of that. Yeah, there's two ways to build a great reputation. Like one is it's time. So you've got to have repeated dealings, positive repeated dealings with people for many, many years. And the word gets out. And it's just essentially time networking and proof that you're a good person and a good at what you do. Or the second one, which is, it could be slower, could be faster, but is do something exceptional. Because if you build an exceptional company that people know about, it's the hot company, you get your foot in the door straight off the bat. They might, they don't know you, they don't care. They've seen what you've built. So you've got those two options. And sometimes you don't know which one takes longer. because you could build a good reputation in 10 years if you're just doing, you think being good person, being good at what you do and what your services, your providing people. But you could also build a successful business in two years, which is highly unlikely. It's more likely going to be 10 as well. But you know, like those are the two options. And Americans love the hot stock. Like they love the hot, like whatever's hot at the moment, the hot company. Exactly. What's gonna 100 X, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. They've just got like such a different mindset to things. Like when you speak to people overseas, and they talk in such not hyperbolic, but like so much bigger terms. Like here we'd be like, okay, so you know, what we're gonna do is we're gonna do it for two years and then we're gonna open Melbourne. And then we're gonna, you know, see how that goes. And then we'll like explore Brisbane. And in America, they say things like, okay, so he's what we're gonna do. We're gonna work out how to open 10 clubs in six months. To do that, we need $10 million. So we need to raise that. And they think a lot bigger and faster than we do. I know, and it's very hard to think, 'cause you know, we would think to just set up one venue every year is amazing, right? Whereas for them, they're like, how do we be attractive to an institution to buy it for, you know, 500 million? So we have to move that quick. You know, it's almost like, we're moving in years, they're moving in days. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. That's the way to put it. I really like that. And it's true. And they're actually exceptional at this operational excellence. 'Cause they have the money. So they got the funding. But they're also amazing at, it's called a corporateizing businesses. Like they're fantastic at like scalable operations. And so they are able to do it. Whereas the rest of the world isn't like, you know, if you think about it, most of the big, big companies we all know love and use are American. Not all of them. You got IKEA. IKEA seemed, it's so American though, it seems American because it's nature is American. But like most of the big companies that you like talk about in a regular basis, they're American organizations. And I feel like every business gets to the point where they're like, all right, if we're gonna get to the next level, we have to enter the American market. Like there's just no way around that, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's like, I mean, it's not everyone's dream, but if you do make it in America, you've made it. Yeah, you know, like if you make it here, you go to America, you could still be bought. So Rich Arms City would be Cubs first location there. I think somewhere in Texas. Oh, wow. Yeah, I think somewhere in Texas. I wouldn't go to New York at the moment 'cause it's pretty anti-business with the new mayor. Exactly. And California's just literally burnt to the ground and people are leaving and I don't know. I used to love LA, but I probably, it's not very business friendly anymore either. So the options are like Texas and like Florida. Those seem to be the big two now. Yeah, well that's where all the businesses have gone. You do have issues with those places too because the taxes are better, but then the private services are more expensive. So like, when you send your kid to school there, you know, the public schools are pretty crappy and the private schools are like a hundred grand. You know? So like, it's good if you're really rich, you go to those places. But yeah, so I think Texas. And I just think that would be really fun. But I think Dubai will be first. - Pious. - Just 'cause in the middle, I can stop there on the way to wherever I feel or wherever I want to go. Amazing tax system. A lot of wealth. And Cubs does good with like migrants. Cubs amazing for people who don't have a really strong existing business network. And people who don't have a strong existing business network are people who have just moved to a new city or country. And everyone just moved to Dubai 'cause no one's from the desert. So yeah, so mean, you are fairly close to it. Our families are probably fairly close from the desert. But yeah, everyone in Dubai right now is not from Dubai. It's kind of like the Gold Coast. Have you Gold Coast like that? When you go to the Gold Coast now, no one's from the Gold Coast. But so many people, particularly young success or people who have moved there 'cause they can buy a property for $4 million and be fairly close to the beach and have this amazing lifestyle or live on that like, you know, the canals or whatever they call it. The water, broad beach waters, Miami waters or whatever it is. So I think Gold Coast is very Dubai-esque in that sense. - Yeah, and Dubai, 'cause as you said, it's kind of new. It's the newer money. So they're more open to do. So you take on opportunities with new people. If you go into places that are really established, that's a bit more clicky old money. You've got to know someone to get in. But I feel like yeah, exactly with something with Dubai, it's more about like if your energy's matched then who knows what you can take on, right? And I think that's really good, especially for young and driven people. - And they got that Arab money. You know, and you got that Arab money. - Unlimited money. - Yeah, they can, they drill the ground, take out the oil and just buy whatever they want. So, you know, it's good to be close to that. The thing people always need to remember, though when they're conducting business in the Middle East or like their Maraudis or anywhere in the Middle East, is that they don't have the like democratic laws that you, that is perceived that we have in the Western world. Like if you fail or steal or rip someone off in a way that's legal, like they'll just throw you in jail and you're like, you're not going to court. There's no like court case. Like, you're like, is it, if they want to take your money, they take it, they want to put you in jail, they'll put you in jail. Like it is a, and that's why the crime rate so low, right? - Yeah, well, I mean, look, it's good that the crime rate's low. It just, if you're doing business there, you can't do it in the same way you would do business in the Western world. You have to understand the Middle Eastern culture, which is one of like very high respect and high personal regard and like, and something that you might do, like you might be sneaky in a contract here and it's a legal way to put yourself in an advantageous position that will result in a better, a result for you and not your partner, for example. But if you do that there, they might be like, nah, nah, that's not on you're going to jail, which is going to take your business. You know, like that happens. That can happen. - No, no, no. So you've got to learn the game for each country almost. - Yeah, yeah. And the Middle East is all like just arablewards arablewards. It just works like that. And so your company, like what kind of point have you got to do? You've been talking a lot about your portfolio. But what about your company? Have you grown your team? How many people you've been servicing? - Yeah, definitely. So like at the moment, we're just hiring number six and seven now. And my team got pretty senior. I got pretty comfortable with, you know, five of us and each person would kind of serve a different part in the business. But then everyone was starting to work from home. So we just got a new office three weeks ago, 52 modern place. And then I've made a good address. Active, I've been really working hard to try to get a group of young like-minded people like myself, which I luckily have. So I've hired three new people in the last month, which has basically taken us to seven people now. So that's been really exciting. And for the last five years, and I think we've serviced over 250 clients. So helping them get loans by property, structure their ownership structures. - Exactly, kind of the full end to end service. So we're very established now, which is great. The big question is how do we now get to the next level and compete with some of the bigger guys? And I think for a long time, you get comfortable. You're like, well, if we state this level, I own this smart, it's a pretty good life, you know? And then it's only after maybe a few years, being there you go, well, this isn't really exciting anymore like it was. So what's the purpose, you know? And that's why I feel like you've always got to be working towards something bigger. And that's where we are now. So very exciting time in the business. - I think as like the best, you're right. You can get comfortable and be like, oh, I could live like this the rest of my life. At least this is a good, like if this was my minimum, life would still be good. The best way to get rid of that though is go overseas. Like just go on a holiday. And you're like, oh, okay, now I get it. Like I got a lot of work to do. Like it's the best thing to do to get your ambition. Like sometimes your ambition is like, it's like a fire. And sometimes it's really big and sometimes it's like a little, like a flame from a light up. But when you go overseas and you open your eyes to the world and what other people have done and what they have, like that little flame sparks back up. You know, okay, I could come home and actually do something. I better get going. And so you said so your next step is like, how do we move to the next stage of the business? Like how do we get to the next size? What's your plan? Like what are the issues that you have to overcome in order to achieve that? - Well, yeah, it's a great question, I think, because not a lot of businesses doing what we do. So it's like, it's not like we can be like, okay, these guys are doing this much. Like there's a lot of brokers doing amazing volume and buyers are doing amazing volume, but not many doing both. So I think the next level is going to be identifying what that looks like for us. We haven't done any marketing. Like we've all been word of mouth. We've been pretty low key so far. So I think understanding how to market ourselves better and really go on to, you know, online on matter because most of our future audience is going to be looking at content online and if we're not there, we're not going to be able to compete on that level. And I think educating, getting onto, you know, TikTok, I never thought I would say this, but educating the younger people who will eventually become our clients. I mean, we've been very comfortable servicing a certain type of client and kind of having that prestige look, but at the end of the day, if you're going to go to the next level, you've got to look at where the future is as well. And I think that's the big part for us is on the screen. standing marketing and really going down that channel now. So getting your brain out there more with the future buyers or a broader demographic of buyer. I think both. We'd be surprised how many people are consuming knowledge, just like I was on YouTube some years ago now. Now it's kind of on those short reels. So I think I've got to start creating that, educating like it's amazing what financial freedom can do for you, but like that's so great. It's not that great if you can't teach it to people. So I've got to start creating that content, I feel, because it is very simple to me, but it's not simple to everyone else out there. But if you create the right amount of content and make it easy for others to understand, you'd be surprised how many people start incorporating it. Like most people my age, they don't even look at property because they think it's so difficult. But if I can actually make it black and white as to this is how simple it is to go from here to here. And because of that, you've created this much freedom. I think you'd be surprised how many young people are willing to maybe not take the gap here and maybe work a few extra years in order to create such a bright future and to be able to travel for five, 10 years in their 30s. Yeah. The narrative is at the moment, and there's a lot of truth to the narrative, is that young people can't get into the property market. But the reality is they actually can. They might not be able to buy where they want or buy their own personal home at the moment, but they actually can get into the property market. But the other reality and the other issue that I think is plaguing them is the social media issue, which is that everybody is traveling all the time, barely working, buying really expensive things, leaving these amazing lifestyles, going to all the best restaurants every weekend. And well, yes, if you're spending all the money on that, you're obviously not going to be able to save enough money for a deposit to buy an apartment in Brisbane or Queensland. Which is where a lot of people buy their first places. Yeah, exactly. It's very simple. It's like, look at how much you get every. I used to have a rule, it was a bit extreme for me. It was like, whatever income hits my bank, 80% of it goes to saving, but I think a lot of people can try at least aim for 20 to 50%. Then again, I was living at home, so for someone who's not like my girlfriend right now, she's renting, so it's more like 20% goes. But even that, you'd be surprised over a year what it is. And I think the same goes, people overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can achieve in 10 years. And getting into the property market isn't something you decide to do in one year and then you reach the second year. It takes at least 10 years to get property right and put yourself in a great position. But when you look at life, hopefully we live up to 89 years. I mean, doing 10 years to have that much freedom and that freedom in your mind, where you can be where you want to be, living life on your terms, if it's an amazing sacrifice. And people also have this, everyone these days gets everything instantly, including myself, everyone does. It's like an instant gratification. And unfortunately, that's just not the way life works. You can't instantly have a great property portfolio or instantly have a good business. Both will take around 10 years or more. And you have to start and you have to be heading in the right direction is there any problem. So I think people have just stopped starting. They're not starting anymore because they're like, oh, it's too hard. I don't want to sacrifice my lifestyle either. People are preferring their lifestyle in the immediate over their lifestyle in the future. That's actually a good way to put it these days. But the future lifestyle is far better and more important. And there is work life balance, but it doesn't happen at the same time. Like you work like an animal from 20 to 50 or 45 or whatever you want. But then after that, if you've done that, after that you're sweet, you can enjoy your life. You don't have to be 50 and worried about paying your mortgage or having to save for a holiday or choose to buy discount flights. Like you can do whatever you want. Exactly. And that's what I always say. If you told someone, people say I'll find a job you're passionate about. But I don't necessarily believe in that because I think if you tell most people, I'll give you a salary, you can go to work or do whatever you want. People will be going on holiday, going on the beach. They won't be going to work. So that's why I definitely think money is a solution a lot of time to freedom. Not like money solves your problems, but it gives you that freedom. And I think when you have freedom and clarity, the way your life looks is completely different. And I would pick that every time. And honestly, money does solve most problems. It solves a lot of them. It solves a lot of problems. It creates also a lot of new problems, but it does solve a lot of the more common problems. And life goes fast. I started to cover 23. I was like a literal boy. I was not a man. Similar. I started at 22. Yeah, but I'm 33 now. But I feel very close to 45. Now that I'm aware of how short time is, and I was a baby and now I'm 33. I'm married with a kid in a house. It's like 45 is not that far. But 45 is another 10 years. Well, 12 years, but it's a decade away. If I keep doing what I'm doing, just keep living my life size. I'm doing now working as I do now for another 10 years. Who knows where I'm going to be at 45? It gets easier and easier. That's the other thing. It doesn't get harder and harder. It's the start is the hardest part. So once you break through that, like this next 10 years for me, that touch wood, it can be a lot easier business-wise in the first 10 years because I'm better at business. And I have more money. And I have more a better team. And I've got thousands of clients. And I'm like, you've got all these things already. You've got your reputation. People know you. You don't have these things at the start for the first 10 years. So you can assume, and you speak to a lot of people that build a lot of big businesses, they'll tell you, they start the hardest part. The first 10 years are the hardest part. The first million is the hardest to earn. A lot of people say that one. Exactly. It's true. It's a good saying. It's like, be very patient with results, but be very impatient with taking action. You know? It's a great one. That's a lot of the time people get analysis paralysis too. I think they're trying to find this perfect solution. Do we do that? Is that a good idea? But I think just take action. That's the only way you learn. Like if there's anything, we can take from my story. I just did something and it worked and I kept learning and I just kept going. So I completely agree. No one starts. Steyne is the most important thing. Exactly. Well, that's a good place to end the conversation. But I think if you're coming on, if anyone wants to get in contact with Neema, you can go to cub.clubboard/podcast and find his contact details there. He can help you get alone, find the right investment property and structure, the ownership of the property so he can stay safe and sue free from anyone else, especially if you're in business that's important. You don't want to get sued and lose your properties. You want them protected. And if you want to catch up with cub, it's at Club United Business on social media. Neema, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Pleasure. And thanks for joining Cubs, so you're young too. Hope you enjoyed the show.