#272 Elizabeth Phillips - Inside Camp Kanakuk: One of America’s Darkest Child Summer Camps - The Shawn Ryan Show

Elizabeth Phillips' Journey: From Personal Loss to Systemic Change Elizabeth Speaker 2 Phillips. Welcome to the show. Speaker 1 Thanks for having me. Speaker 2 You're welcome. Been looking forward to this Speaker 1 same. Speaker 2 But yes, so interest, I think it was a couple months ago. I think, maybe Late. October sometime in November. Tim Tebow called me and told me about your situation, what you're doing the laws that you're getting past and and he told me about what happened with her brother, who was sexually abused at camp kanaka in Missouri. And Tim asked me if if I would be interested in doing an interview with you and and so when he told me about the situation, Immediately. I was like, yeah. Oh man, let's do it. This is a topic that we've covered several times on the show and I think a lot of people are scared to talk about the subject. I don't know why. I don't know what's more important than saving our kids. But We're here for it and and so thank you for being here. This is going to be a very heavy interview and Abandoned, I'm just heard amazing things about Camp kanaka affect one of one of the one of one of one of our team members here today, who's been there. I think she said, she's been going there since she was three years old and Speaker 1 yeah, but Thanks for being willing to have the conversation and enter the darkness a little bit. So we can expose it. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And God bless him for the intro. God bless you for winning another conversation. Speaker 2 Thank you Speaker 1 grateful to. Anyone who will let me talk about this and who's Who cares? Speaker 2 You want to start with a prayer? Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaker 2 let's do it. Speaker 1 All right, I work with a lot of survivors who are pursuing sobriety. So I'm going to read this Serenity Prayer. That's cool. Speaker 2 Perfect, that's my wife's favorite prayer. Speaker 1 Awesome, Speaker 2 15 years old. Speaker 1 That's amazing. Yeah, Okay. God grant me the serenity to accept the things. I cannot change the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Living one day, at a time, enjoying one moment at a time. Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace. That I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy forever in the next amen. Speaker 2 Amen. Thank you. Thank you. All right, I'm gonna give you an introduction, everybody starts with an introduction, Elizabeth Phillips leading voice on reforming, how the legal system treats survivors of child, sexual abuse, younger brother. Trey died by suicide in 2019 at age, 28 after a civil settlement with camp kanakuk that included a restrictive. NDA. Founder of no more victims and advocacy organization that passes child protection laws and 2025. You passed trays, law in Texas. And in Missouri, led the campaign for camps safety, with a coalition of parents who lost their daughter's on July 4th, 2025, it can't miss it to pass the heavens 27, campsie in youth. Camper acts you served as the executive director of the Phillips Foundation, since 2013, wife to Kevin, mother of three. And most importantly, your Christian and this is the first time you've spoken publicly about the collective work and what's ahead. So, once again, thank you. All right. Couple things are not out here real quick. I have a patron on account to subscription account we've turned it into one hell of a community and they're the reason that I get to sit here with you today. So one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. This is from Murphy. You've turned unimaginable, personal loss and a meaningful. Systemic change. What was the turning point? When advocacy shifted from something you were doing in your brother's memory to something that defined your life's work? Speaker 1 Hmm. It's a great question, Murphy. It kind of gives me chills because I think I'm in that moment right now. Like realizing this is my life's work. And I just can't unsee what I've seen. and, This. part of my mission started with my brother's death and I knew I had to turn that pain into something, powerful. Something purposeful. And then I started getting into it. And realized there all these survivors stuffing in the shadows so, it's so much bigger than Trey, so much bigger than me now, I will fight for these now, friends, and We've had a lot of allies and Advocates join the forces too to make sure that we are protecting kids at a systems level. And not requires policy change, and I didn't start there, but that's where I've landed. Because once you start peeling back the layers, you realize we have to change laws to make any progress on this stuff, Speaker 2 man. Well, thank you for what you're doing. It's good to be in the fire. Speaker 1 Always say, it's a secret honor. It's hard to say. Oh, it's a pleasure. It's not a pleasure. Speaker 2 Yeah, Speaker 1 this is hard. and, That's why. Yeah, people don't want to talk about it. And so I'm going to talk about it. I'm not gonna shut up about it. Someone has to talk about it. and, That's how we turned the tide. Speaker 2 Not very many people talk about it, but a whole lot of people listen. Speaker 1 So Speaker 2 I think that's That's definitely a net positive. Unveiling Kanakuk: A Mega-Ministry's Evangelical Empire Yeah, but all right, one more thing man. This seemed so appropriate but everybody gets a gift. Speaker 1 Yes, there Speaker 2 you go. They're just lie. Gummy bears made in the USA in Michigan legal in all 50 states, at least right now, but Speaker 1 my kids are gonna love me. Speaker 2 I'll give you a couple more. Speaker 1 Thank you. We're big gummy bear people, Speaker 2 right, on right? Speaker 1 You some stuff. Oh, My love language is gifts Speaker 2 me too. Speaker 1 And Confrontation and justice. But okay, a few things here, Speaker 2 perfect. Speaker 1 I have to work with lobbyists who I call my boots on the ground so they all get this. When we pass along, I got you. This one, monogrammed, Sean, Ryan show, Speaker 2 dude, that's awesome. Speaker 1 It's technically a wine cooler but I put my husband has a regenerative farm and he's Texas, and they make these Like jerky sticks. Speaker 2 Cool. Speaker 1 So that's what's in here. Oh man. I know you don't drink and I know Katie doesn't either. Speaker 2 Thank you. Speaker 1 But yeah, we're gonna give the boot to child. Predators today. You needed that. I love this. Then. I, to be honest until Tim Tebow told me about this show, I never heard of you. And so, Speaker 2 that's refreshing. Speaker 1 Oh, and then, because our phone's listened to us, all of the sudden, like, Sean Ryan shows my entire algorithm And so I I circled the wagons with a few of the, the survivors I work with just to say, I'm going on this podcast, I'm talking about kanaka because any media exposure is gonna be out there and it could be triggering, right? I just want them to have a heads up. And so, two of the current plaintiffs and active fraud litigation against Hanukkah, they've been sued for fraud. And then all this abuse too, A one of them was, like, I love Sean, Ryan. And do you think you could take? He just started a tequila company. Do you think you could take him some of my tequila? And so, we've got that here, too. I love The Branding. It's called Point Blank. Tequila Speaker 2 nice. Speaker 1 And he said his message, this is a Reposado on a Blanco. He said his message today that he wanted me to pass along is that survivors can heal and live full lives. And he's got a wife and kids successful in real estate and all so, started a side, hustle to kill a Speaker 2 business. Oh man. So I love that. Speaker 1 This from Andrew Summer's up fighting for justice. Making tequila along the way. Speaker 2 Thank you. Super cool. Thank you. Those will be in the studio too. Speaker 1 Awesome. Speaker 2 I'm not gonna drink him but somebody like, Speaker 1 well, you know, quite the collection Speaker 2 in here. Speaker 1 And this is also swag from my husband's farm. So come and take it. This is their logo. Speaker 2 Thank you, awesome. Thank you. All right, so Elizabeth if you don't mind it in just give us a very brief summary of what we're about to die into and then and then we'll get into the whole thing. I just want to give the audience a little snapshot of what they're in for her, Speaker 1 okay? So my family grew up in Evangelical circles and Cannon cut camps was the place for summer camp in the 90s. And so we all went there, my brother Trey was unfortunately, groomed and horribly sexually abused and what we now believe also traffic by this Mega Ministry, based out of Southwest Missouri. He ended his life and 20 19. and, I've been on a journey ever since to find out what happened to my brother. and then not let down this path of What's up with Canik and then what's up with summer camps in general? and so, I've been like Aaron Brock of itching, that's whole situation of like, how do we Get to the bottom of what's going on here. And then how do we prevent it in the future speaking specifically about institutional child sexual abuse. Speaker 2 Going to get heavy. All right, where did you grow up? Speaker 1 We're gonna laugh, we're gonna cry. I feel all the things. I know I'm going to cry because talking about my brother's the hardest part of this for me. I can talk about statistics and stuff all day, but I'm here because I lost a sibling under really horrible circumstances that he didn't deserve. Speaker 2 I'm sorry. Speaker 1 You've lost a lot of people too. Speaker 2 I have. Where did you grow up? Speaker 1 So we grew up, I was born in Boston. God was in grad school at their We moved to Tampa Florida. And then to Dallas, And then Atlanta. And then back to Dallas, So I changed schools. Eight times before College. Speaker 2 Wow. Speaker 1 Oh he's the new kid kind of sinkers went right, but ended up, I mean, you know, I High School especially had a great experience Ended up class president as the new kid. Speaker 2 Wow, Speaker 1 I say a peaked in high school, right? And that's the extent of my interest in politics was I actually have to plan our 20 year reunion this year. It's not up on me Speaker 2 nice. Speaker 1 I ran my campaign on that. I would throw a better class reunion than my opponent. So I've got a delivery from 2000. Anyways, Speaker 2 when did you start going to Canada cook? Speaker 1 Oh, so back then. Elizabeth's Childhood: Fun, Grooming, and Camp Kanakuk I think it started at age. Six seven. You go to it. My kids are gonna go six, seven? Okay? Age, six or seven, I went seven years myself. Speaker 2 You did, Speaker 1 yeah. Speaker 2 Well, what I mean, what is it? I've never heard of it until until her. Speaker 1 Well, that's right. Tim told me that you never heard of it. I, I looked you up when you mentioned your name and it said you're from Missouri and I was like, well, he's probably heard of kanaka and Tim was like, no, he hadn't heard about it so it's the Speaker 2 Lord. Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaker 2 we don't do these things. Well, Speaker 1 they do offer a Catholic mass for the very small group of. Speaker 2 Yes, we do. Do these things Speaker 1 that go to Canada, but this Camp has been around 100 years. and it's been under the white families leadership, since the 1950s and the 70s that became Joe White and his wife Debbie Joe, White and It's an Evangelical Sports Camp. Ton of Christian celebrities have gone there since their kids their performed. There it was the place in the 90 you were considered kind of upper class and you it's expensive. I mean thousands of dollars to go there for a week. Attracted kids from all over the country, they claim all 50 states and several countries abroad, two Taney, County Missouri, Southwest Missouri, every summer driving about 25,000 families to that, part of the state. Speaker 2 What town is it? Is this in Springfield? Speaker 1 You find the Springfield if you fly but it's in the greater Branson area. Yeah. Have you ever been to Branson? Speaker 2 Well yeah Speaker 1 it's like a Christian Las Vegas. So wild Speaker 2 the only theme park I've ever been to that doesn't sell any booze. Speaker 1 Exactly. So like yeah, the whole Canucks situation is like that show, Ozark, Meats, righteous, gemstone, if you've seen those shows and you've got Joe White, who's this big character, and People worshiped him next to God and he was really high profile in the 90s. And she thought I mean 14, at least books published by Focus on the Family. They've sent focus on the Family's taking all of that down since this has been exposed, but he was I guess star Stadium speaker, right? He would. Give the commencement at Liberty University's graduation or whatever he would. Go to Promise Keepers events and be a featured speaker at those types of conferences. So Speaker 2 the guy that runs the whole thing, yeah. Speaker 1 Still he's still he's the CEO and his own board chair. Well, get into why that's problematic. But so Here, 500,000 alumni. So 500,000 kids have gone through this camp. 50,000 staff, roughly, this is, you know, from what they've reported. And then they have, you know, they're not your mom and pop shop Camp. They have year-round Ministries, they have K life. Which is it was in over 20 cities. I think that's a dwindle down to, maybe 17 since we started exposing stuff. Sorry, not sorry. But that's how they recruit campers year round. Is these weekly Bible studies through k-life. And then you can go to Camp. They also have, and it's a whole trajectory from Starting at camp at a young age, then after Camp, you can become a counselor. But between high school and college, they also offer something called link here like this Gap year program. And that's run by a guy named Adam Don. Yay. Under the canonical Ministries on umbrella and Link here also has link Academy and Link hoops. Link Hoops is a Basketball Academy. They're one of the top in the country now actually but people don't realize they're tied to Canada. then they have a segregated camp for urban youth. That's called kids Across America and Speaker 2 urban youth. Speaker 1 Yeah they used to say inner city children. Speaker 2 Oh Speaker 1 now it's Urban Youth basically like black kids. Speaker 2 Go Speaker 1 and so they have kids Across America for that. They have then the full paying tuition Camps, that are majority white kids their next door to each other. They have historically had a camp in Colorado. That no longer exists. Speaker 2 Why not? Speaker 1 That shut down. There is a divorce in the family. Joe white's daughter, she still is like the director of alumni engagement for the camp, but her ex-husband, they got divorced. I think it just kind of fizzled. But yeah, so massive present, they claim to have a presence in over 50 International locations. concerning, we'll get into why and Joe White Brands himself as an author and a speaker. He has Dr. Joe White on some of his book covers. He's not a doctor. Speaker 2 Oh boy, here we go. Speaker 1 One of those. and, Speaker 2 We'll get into it. Yeah, Speaker 1 we'll get into it. then yeah, through his books and his speaking tours, he he's known for his crucifixion reenactments Yeah, so it's called cross talk and Camp. There would be one night where there's like a bonfire like a burning cross and Yeah, bonfire cross and you nail your sins to the cross and everyone's weeping. These are like seven year old kids and some of the camps. And Joe White when he's a double amputee. Now, he's physically unable to Do this. But he used to like carry the Carlson BG's. and then he would like use a chainsaw or an accident like, cut up across build a cross like Present the gospel message. and, It triggered an emotional reaction in a lot of kids, so they're like, yes, I'll accept Christie. I don't want to go to hell. in my opinion, like kind of an unnecessary way to bring kids to a Christianity. but they do a lot of that kind of stuff, and It started out as a boys camp in 1926, in the Ozarks. Can I cut camps for boys? And then they opened a girl's camp in 1958, Kane Como. So the boys are called cuts and the girls are called Comas. Speaker 2 Okay, and Speaker 1 it's co-ed now. Speaker 2 So now it's all. Can I cook Speaker 1 now? It's all kind of, but then they have different kind of camps. So, I mentioned kids Across America for that socioeconomic level. And then there's K Country, which is where the super Predator was. Here's the director, I hate it. When the media reports him as a counselor like he was just a random Council know he was The Heir Apparent to Joe White's Throne, Speaker 2 he what? Speaker 1 Yeah, he's in prison for three life terms, my brother's perpetrator, but he was going to be the next Joe White. He was The Rainmaker, but that's his Camp K Country, and that's like, Elementary aged children. And then there's Kay West for, like, preteens 12 to 14 year olds, there's K1 where you can go for a month. And that's after you graduate from Cape country, there's case, seven, which used to just be one week and you like stayed in teepees, And then there's K2, which is for the teens. And that's a month long thing. So there's a lot of different camps within the Canna cut camps umbrella and they call it can a Ministries now, but because they have all sorts of other programming. Like I mentioned like the Basketball Academy, they spun off a tech platform called circuitry. This Speaker 2 is this is a huge This is an Empire, this is Speaker 1 some Camp. There is a 45 million in annual revenue. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Okay. Wow. We talk a lot on the show about protecting your family and being prepared for the worst case scenario, but there's one area of protection that a lot of us myself included for a long time, tend to procrastinate on and that's life insurance. I've had term life insurance for several years now and I remember the exact moment I realized I needed it, it was right around the time. My son was born asserted thinking about the mortgage. The kids education, and all the expenses. I'd want covered. If the unthinkable happens and I'm not here to provide for them anymore but having a plan in place is what actually allows you to breed these easier. 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At Angus minutes, it meet fabric.com, Sean that's Mead fabric.com slash Sean m e e t fabric.com Sean policies issued by Western Southern life Assurance company. Not available in certain States, prices subject to underwriting and health questions. The in this started in the 1920s, Speaker 1 1926, Speaker 2 and this guy's still alive, he's still running it. So or you took it over from, Speaker 1 he took it over from his dad in the seventies. And but it was started by a guy named cl4 out of Dallas. And then, he ended up to this guy coach Bill Lance and then that guy handed it over to spike white, Joe White's dad. And then Joe White went to SMU, I went to SMU in Dallas too and he got a biology degree undergrad. So when he says doctor on his books, there's no PhD. There's like no Seminary degree. It's like an honorary doctorate and like an honorary. Speaker 2 Yeah, Speaker 1 whatever. But he, yeah, he rides on not pretty hard and he's branded himself as America's expert on teenagers on teen Purity. Speaker 2 It sounds like it. Speaker 1 He's right in books called like pure excitement about Teen Purity and multiple of them. Like very obsessed with like sex and Purity. And I think for someone who's in his mid-70s it's getting a little creepy, Speaker 2 is he? I mean we're going to get into all of it, but I mean, what is it? What is What is the What is the experience? I mean, what, what do kids that aren't abused? What did you come home and say about it? What is your experience there? I'm just, yeah, Speaker 1 I mean, Speaker 2 what do you do there? Speaker 1 My whole family was groomed during my experience. So like there are people who had great experiences. I look back on mine and I'm like, well, that was just, they were grooming our whole family. And but I mean there's so many fun things to do on the water. It's like Prime real estate along these lakes and the O's arcs. Lake Taney Como. And then there's like, part of it that's on a different Lake Table, Rock Lake Adventure. They take kids belonging. There's you can choose a sport kind of like you choose a major and call you choose a major like I would do dance or like, boys could choose if they wanted to do basketball or football, and they've turned out some great athletes actually. And a lot of NFL players have sent their kids there because it's a good football program. you have no access to watches or telephones, and so If there is something that goes wrong, it's very hard to reach the outside world, and I think that's how abuse proliferated. Not that kids should have phones in at cam, not saying that but like, It's pretty locked down and strict like you're up at this time. you clean your cabin, you a lot of devotionals and prayer time and talks, you know, preaching and and then some of its really fun, you know, just rotating throughout the day of you got tennis and then you got canoeing and then you're going to make a craft. And then there's themed party is at night. So that's when the boys and the girls interact is that these themed parties at night and they'll send you the list of what the themes are going to be. So you can pack your trunk for camp with like fun costumes for the theme nights. And so I actually I hated it. I hated camp like the first few years. I just super homesick. I like it more as I got older but I had no idea. Joe White's Cover-Up: Minimizing Pete Newman's Abuse What was going on with the abuse? It was now in hindsight. It was interesting how I got Kickapoo princess at K Country under Pete. Newman's directorship, I always got the best dancer award. I wasn't the best dancer, like the things like that, just to show favoritism to our family. Whenever they had, this thing called winter Trail, I think they still do it, where they travel around in the offseason, and go to different people's homes to fundraise. And to recruit like these marketing events, they would always want to stay at our house and we'd host things for them in Dallas. We let them borrow our car to go to a church, you know, out in one of the suburbs and do their presentation there. So we were definitely Targeted and they targeted a lot of families that you know, how to influence or money and stuff. And so it's a little bit different than what you typically hear in these situations where it's children that are vulnerable because they've been in foster care or they have and poverty or something. This, they were targeting like the elite Evangelical crowd. Speaker 2 Interesting. Speaker 1 Yeah, why Speaker 2 do you why? Why do you think they were targeting that girl? I'm just curious Speaker 1 because they're all about money. So, like it's started out as a non-profit and then they conveniently restructured it at certain key dates. When Speaker 2 if it's all about the money, why would you target? The people with the money's kids. Speaker 1 And because they wanted to make you feel VIP and special and then offer, you know, hiding trips or, you know, dry white flies around on its private plane. And Speaker 2 are you I'm talking about, were you targeted, was your family targeted because they want to do abuser brother for the money or for both Speaker 1 about. So like I feel like, for Joe White, we were targeted because we had a nice house and could host events for them and donate to the ministry. And then with Pete Newman, my brother's perpetrator, he was grooming at like, you know, giving us the special treatment at his Camp also because, you know, they wanted our donations but but because he wanted Trey Speaker 2 So these are on related. It's too targeted. Speaker 1 I think I think I just you know. If you look at the whole case, it does seem kind of coordinated. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 Jeez. Yeah. Speaker 2 How many kids will go to this at once? Speaker 1 So their materials have cited numbers like 27,000 teenagers per summer, Speaker 2 27,000 teenagers per summer Speaker 1 25,000 families. Go to Branson every year for summer camp or I think more recently I've seen numbers cited as like 10,000. So I don't know if that's like dwindling or they're just were they exaggerating their numbers, but we're talking. It's not like Again, not a typical Mom and Pop shop kind of camp. This is a mega Ministries, the largest summer camp in the world. Speaker 2 I mean, we have, it's, it's put 500,000 people through, but that would only be 20 years worth of kids. I mean, I know a girl and We're talking about, it's been a hundred years. Speaker 1 Well, yeah, but like, they are repeat customers, right? So like, Speaker 2 okay, Speaker 1 people go through high school, Speaker 2 okay? And Speaker 1 then sometimes they'll do leave here and then they'll go to college and be a counselor there. And then on the other side of college, you can do the Institute, which they've called, like a master's and ethics. Ironically. And so you can the pipeline is that's what it's jokingly called the Canticle. And from my research, I don't even joke about is like the Canticle, right? They keep you and they suck you in and you stay there to the point where people feel financially held hostage It's wild. And so that's the that's the pipeline, you know, from Early Childhood through adulthood, there's always a place for you at kanaka, because then you go to The Institute, then you can like work at kanakuk beyond that in a leadership role. So a lot of their stuff, you know, they've grown up in this and Speaker 2 and Speaker 1 stayed Speaker 2 100% bought in Speaker 1 100% bought in even those that have kids that were victimized. It's crazy. Speaker 2 What? What? Speaker 1 That's where it's like, you know, that's the cult piece of it, right? It's like why would you stay at an institution or your own child was abused. Speaker 2 This shit sounds like the Jehovah's Witnesses. This is fucking crazy. Speaker 1 It's crazy. Speaker 2 Yeah. Where do we go from here? Speaker 1 I mean, what do you want to know? I, I have five years, I mean, I can go through, kind of like, how we started this investigation out and where we are now and like, Speaker 2 let's talk about what happened? Speaker 1 Yeah, let's go back. Okay, so, My husband and I were living in North Carolina in our 20s. I'd spent a lot of time. Speaker 2 Are you older or younger than Speaker 1 the oldest? Speaker 2 You're the oldest. Yeah. Speaker 1 And three years. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 And I've gone to SMU graduated a year, early went over to Uganda to help start up a social Enterprise. And did that often on for six years started having babies? Commute got a little hard to go on to the babies and we moved to North Carolina where my husband's from to run the family business on his side. Which came with a newly and Dodd Foundation the Phillips Foundation, which I've been running since 2013. And so we had day jobs, we were having kids and My brother was really struggling. I remember being pregnant with my first son and My, I would get these calls from my mom or my dad, and then be like, we just had to put train treatment, he's not doing well. and, It was just a roller coaster. For until he died, but I didn't really know what had happened to Trey. I remember when, when he was 21, Pete Newman was arrested so I would have been 24. Pete Newman was arrested and ultimately sentenced to three life terms Speaker 2 arrested for what Speaker 1 seven felony counts of child, sexual abuse, Speaker 2 Seven felony accounts of child sexual abuse at Camp. Kanakuk, Speaker 1 yeah. And I bought at Camp Kankakee because these boys were abused all over the place, Speaker 2 okay? Speaker 1 So it wasn't just at Camp, it was in their own home, sometimes it was on mission trips to China, where he would film them getting massages. So we're talking child sexual abuse material being created that never got investigated. It was investigated by the Taney County Sheriff's department and they never looked into Pete. Newman's devices for CCM. When we have witnesses who were on those trips and we saw Pete Newman filming, these boys getting massages and having them, massage therapists activate, their growing areas. So he could film it. So, they were abused all over the place, they were trips to Haiti. You know, and the name of Hannah cook International mission trip. There were, I mean, turned out into Bago. All over the world. And so, Where was I with that? The basically like my I didn't really know the extent of what happened to my brother and tell so He was not doing well and then he decided to pursue civil litigation against kanaka after the Criminal Case Closed. He was named as a victim. A right when Pete Newman got arrested. Joe White flew down on his private plane to Dallas and asked for a meeting with my dad and Trey man-to-man like, leave my mom out of it. He didn't want to Angry moment. And This was before the story really broke and he was like it's gonna come out that Pete Newman was abusing boys, but it was really just boys. Being boys. Typical Middle School masturbation and experimentation like minimized it down. Played it with my brother Trey right there. Basically saying here's the story in her sticking to it. It wasn't a big deal. Speaker 2 Now, do you think this guy knew? Did your brother was abused? Speaker 1 Yeah, cuz he was on a list. Pete Newman provided a list of victims. So Speaker 2 this is after he was Speaker 1 arrested. This was so the exact chronology is like, March 2009. He confesses to. Can I quickly leadership? That he's been abusing boys later. Hmm. Speaker 2 What year Speaker 1 2009? March 2009. And he'd been caught multiple times before, skinny dipping, writing formulas nude with boys. Speaker 2 Go Speaker 1 ahead. I know. Um, they called him in 1999 in 2001 in 2003 and 2000 Speaker 2 just white, Joe White. Yeah, Joe White Speaker 1 Jeff Speaker 2 whatever. Joe Wade. Has he has the head guy of all these kids right? Writing around four wheelers naked with them. Speaker 1 Yeah. And it gets recorded back to the camp, like they knew this stuff was happening. And and one of the depositions as this. Speaker 2 So they just sweep the shit under the rug and they don't even tell him, don't do it again. Speaker 1 They're like, that's just boys. Being boys, being boys, and Well I can show you what they did to discipline him. I have the record here but basically yeah well put it out. But real quick, so like the four wheeler thing, the naked basketball, the new swimming. Joe White was asked in a deposition. Like, you don't think that is child, sexual abuse like Pete, Newman, naked in front of these young boys and Joe White's. Response was, well, it depends on how dark it was. Penis. Speaker 2 Still send their kids to this place. Speaker 1 Exactly. Like thousands of people. Exposing the Playbook: Kanakuk's Child Protection Plan Yeah, but that's not Speaker 2 this is this releases. Speaker 1 I hope so because kids are in danger there and I think that's why Tim wanted us to talk. This is what they a few things going on. Speaker 2 That guy does not care about anything more than saving kids, Speaker 1 right? and, I'll talk more about what we're partnering on together. To protect kids. But this is one example of how they discipline Pete Newman when he was in those situations with boys. They call it boys being boys. And he actually there's a document where here it is. They made him take a test. And then they made him sign a contract. To spend more time with his wife, not spend so much time in the hot tub with a lot of the abuse would happen in the hot tubs. And then this is they sent him to a counselor who gave him this questionnaire. Speaker 2 List. Three reasons why Camp counselors sometimes, get accused of inappropriate conduct with campers. It's hard to read his handwriting. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's all Pete Newman. Handwriting Speaker 2 conduct has been inappropriate. Child has passed abuse experiences that stimulate fear. They are careless and Ministry strategy and uneducated list three good ways to avoid accusations of improper sexual conduct toward a camper. One avoid alone time with kids of opposite. Sex avoid sexual humor inappropriate jokes never have a loan sleepovers. List three things, former President Clinton did wrong regarding his encounter with Monica Lewinsky, she did on his wife, lied about it failed to set the example of what a leader should look like. Speaker 1 What bizarre? And then flip to the back, just turn the whole thing over. And the very back page. For the next one. On the very back page. Speaker 2 Pete Newman objective to help Pete understand what healthy Ministry is and to make sure Pete never places himself in a compromising position that his Integrity would be. In question, we want to ensure that Pete be involved in a lifetime of ministry, overall boundaries for Ministry, all high school Ministries at 10 p.m. all Junior High Ministry ends at 9, p.m. never show up at home, unannounced, never encouraged students, to disregard other responsibilities. To be with you like school, family or a job. Failure in these areas will disqualify you from Ministry privileges. All contact with kids will be done in public. Never in private without parent permission, exception picking up the first child and dropping off the last child from an event. You must have parents permission never spend the light. Never spend the night alone with a child never be involved. In sexual humor, never suggest or be involved with any sexual or nude Behavior. Never touch a child in a way that might be perceived is sexual in nature. Always put a stopped inappropriate behavior, IE sexual, physical nudity vulgar speech inappropriate humor. Failures in these will lead to instant dismissal and complete reporting of the incident. Boundaries on local extra Camp Ministry. Limited to three nights a week Club leadership. Small group. One weekend a month, two small group. Bible studies won lunch, a week. Summertime boundaries. Regular accountability with Will Cunningham. The amount of time can be determined later. These times might include physical workouts. Biblical mentoring detailed discussions of feelings about Ministry life. Katie kids. Personal worth Etc. No further visits from out of state kids. Snow sleepovers IE events that required Pete to spend the night alone with one or more kids period. Noticeable change in the way Pete budgets his time. Regular time with Katie, that must be his wife. Regular time spent with peers as opposed to a lopsided. In ordinand amount of time, spent with kids? What? Speaker 1 This Is How They disciplined him Speaker 2 excited. He signed. Speaker 1 What's the date Speaker 2 1022.03? Speaker 1 They knew and O3. What normal person needs, a document like that. And they also have these like Play Books. These stuff Play books, Speaker 2 this is Speaker 1 I know. That's Speaker 2 anybody that's sending their kids to camp kanakuk. You need to read this. They're literally, they have to try to coax their counselors into not having a sleepover alone with your child. Speaker 1 What normal person means that review so, In March 2009. Oh, so this this year 03, they obviously, he was escalating, write his behavior and so they. They restructured. And kanaka had been a four Prophet, they restructured to become a non-profit, right? They're realizing, they have liability. They hire this guy named Rick brashler, as the directer of risk risk management. He's a former Pizza Hut manager. And insurance broker to churches. I Speaker 2 thought you were gonna say pizza gate. Shit, my pants. Speaker 1 So he comes over from Pizza Hut and he suddenly the director of risk management. And that's an 03 and then they catch Pete Newman again. And I was six somewhere between 03 and 06 is supervisor will Cunningham. What Speaker 2 is it with pizza and little kids? What's the thing? Speaker 1 Can you have someone on to answer that for us? so Rick is, he's no qualifications and Child Protection or anything and He's supposed to, you know, sharpen up the protocols for these bad act that they are keeping on stuff and not just that Pete Newman. Got promoted after that. So, not only did they not report him to the authorities properly or fire him? They promoted him to direct her of Kate country. He was assistant director, then director of cake country. Will Cunningham, who was his supervisor recommended his termination. And then he got squeezed out slowly and left Kanika he's been very helpful to survivors in their cases now because he's like I told them to fire, the guy red flags all over the place. more than red flags, that Joe White knew about so, Then there's this. There are few theories around how he ended up turning himself in, in March 2009. But one thing I've heard and I know this guy in Dallas, I've heard the story directly from him. His dad was a sitting us congressman and he had sponsored a kid to go with Pete to some retreat in Alabama. The kid called back said, he lost. He tried to assault me. So, that guy calls Pete. And he says, I'm gonna have the FBI on her doorstep tomorrow morning. Say goodbye to your wife, Katie and your kid and a daughter. My family through their baby shower and Dallas. Speaker 2 Oh, Speaker 1 so the person I'm Speaker 2 your family through his baby shower Speaker 1 Yeah, it was considered an honor. Speaker 2 Holy shit. Speaker 1 and, so anyways, Pete, turns himself into the Taney County Sheriff's Department. It should have been FBI from the beginning. And it wasn't, it was a Taney County Sheriff's Department investigation. It was the local victims that put him away. The prosecutor at the time. Jeff Merrill. He said there were. 55 ish victims. Known at the time of sentencing, but he estimated a true victim count in the hundreds. On Pete Newman alone. Pete's. Now, one of over 75 perpetrators associated with kanaka, we know of now. Through my investigate will go into that but Speaker 2 did you say that again, Speaker 1 pizza? And one of over 75 perpetrators affiliated with Canna cook that we've uncovered today. With allegations dating back from 1958 to very recently. so that's Pete, 55 victims, known at Thomas seeing Prosecutor estimating, true victim counting that in the hundreds other experts would say 1000, just because he was, he had unfettered access to Children year round for 14 years. Not to his, you know, Moda operandi of like how he would abuse. So yeah, hundred thousands of victims Pete Newman alone. and then, Hundreds to thousands of victims Speaker 2 for Pete Newman alone, right alone. Speaker 1 Yeah, so, kanika's crisis, PR strategy on all that was Well, we can't let One Bad Apple take down this ministry. We've saved so many Souls. Speaker 2 Timid said he was saying something in court on the stand too, I believe, I don't know if it was Pete Newman because I was a familiar with any of the names. Speaker 1 Oh, he said something in his remarks in court that, don't let what I did, take down this whole Ministry. Can I Cuts good for kids? It's the happiest place on a blah. He, you know, did his whole feel Can it cut? So he goes to prison for the white guy. Adam say that? Oh. Yeah, who knows? so then, he goes to prison at Jefferson City, Correctional Center, the address for that is 8,000 no more victims Lane So I call this and I call it operation Mills down because of a verse in the Bible that says, if you are a child, you're better off with a millstone around your neck thrown into the bottom of the sea. So, I call everything I'm working on related to this operation Millstone. but there's always, I going to say, there's a Oh, so there are crisis PR strategy was. There's one, this was one bed Apple. We can't let him destroy this entire Ministry. So, first time this has ever happened, we are so shocked. Going on. Now of perpetrators, like going back to the very first year, they opened the girls camp. And then third. We're now the safest camp in America because we have learned the hard way how this could happen. And they had started, this can cut child protection plan. That's now been spewed over 600, you serving organizations across the country. It was a credited by the boat and Foundation. and then they tried to get some other like, Accreditations on their website to look legit after they've had this massive pedophile scandal. They put the can I cook child protection plan in place? and, And start going around the country. Talking about how they know how to handle can't safety now, because they just had this horrible situation and they're now going to be the safest camp in America through this kind of child protection plan. I brought a PowerPoint that they've used on that, that, in my opinion and experts opinions. Would make better pedophiles, not protect kids. Can I show you that? Speaker 2 Absolutely. Speaker 1 You want to do it Speaker 2 now? Yeah. Speaker 1 So this is the Speaker 2 reported up on screen as we talk about it. Speaker 1 There's so much to talk about. Okay, so this is a PowerPoint that the former Pizza Hut manager, Rick brashler with no expertise in child protection, put together. And I have a whole audit on it by actual subject matter experts, but this is the slide deck. He uses to go to other Camps. It's page 24. I have in my head page. 2425 Where have you heard of NAMBLA? Have you heard of the envelope? Yeah, Speaker 2 no I'm not heard of that. Speaker 1 This is gonna get really pissed by this. Sorry, these Pages aren't numbered. Here we go. How to practice child love? Speaker 2 Oh, great. You're gonna make me read this one up. Um Speaker 1 and then 170 page. Child molestation instruction manual. Nambla.org the online voice of the North American man. Boy love Association. So if you're a pedophile in his audience, he's showing you where to go. So become a better pedophile, Speaker 2 who was okay who wrote this? This is a, we're gonna put this up on screen here. I'll read it. Speaker 1 This Speaker 2 is why I didn't write it how to practice child, Love by Richard Creech. Before you begin on the education, important info Theory before practice child, sexuality, taboos and shame risks involved. When to start what age where do I find a child? This is the this is the curriculum introduction. Having own children or family equals access single parents and moms with kids babysitting daycare in schools children out in the wide in the in the white open world. Other creative methods, and some final words, The Forum important advantages survey approach and Creator relationship. The Practical steps, the introduction. Step 1, the first physical contact. Step 2. The second physical contact. Step 3. Exploring the child's genital. Step 4, exploring the adults, genital. Step 5 Making Love For the First Time Richard Creech. 45 pled. Guilty May 24th, 2013. Creech used a peer-to-peer file sharing program to collect and share child pornography videos, including numerous videos of children between ages 5 and 12 years old, being raped and sexually abused. Crunches child, pronography collection, included more than 1,100 images and 1300 videos of children being sexually exploited. Speaker 1 Wow, Speaker 2 170 page, child molestation instruction, manual surfaces. This is in Orange County, Orange County, Sheriff. Deputy say that a 170 page, manual. His circling around central Florida. It shows people step by step. How to molest children. Nambla.org. NAMBLA goal is to end the extreme oppression of men, and boys, and mutually consensual relationships. What? The fuck is this? Speaker 1 So that's Rick rosslers. Can I cut child protection plan that he says they learned up through this Pete, Newman situation. So, it tells you a lot about what Pete Newman was doing. This is all the Playboy, you know, how people say it's like they're all using the same Playbook. There are playbooks. That exist. Someone the dark web somewhere. You know, more Speaker 2 some more camp, kaniko, Speaker 1 summer camp, kanaka's creation. and, Yeah, so that's been spewed to 600 East, serving organizations across the country. According to Rick roesler, he's still there as the Director of risk management. Speaker 2 He's still here. Speaker 1 Yeah. He's still running the child protection plan for cannot cook. The Silence of NDAs: How Kanakuk Silenced Victims The other thing I was going to mention is the so Pete went away and 2010 for three life terms and then they implement this kind of cook child protection plan in 2010. And then in 2011 they had another arrest by a pedophile named Lee Bradbury. Who was a counselor, I think he had five counts of sodomising a child And he just got out of prison. Speaker 2 He's out. Speaker 1 Yeah he jumped the registry. We got him, put back on. But Speaker 2 what's his Speaker 1 name? Lee Bradbury? Speaker 2 Where's he live? Speaker 1 Hello Bama. Speaker 2 Pelham Alabama. Lee Bradford, Speaker 1 Bradbury Speaker 2 Bradbury. Speaker 1 Yeah, we have all Speaker 2 Bradbury. Speaker 1 Yeah I hope set up a website called facts about kanakuk.com. Once I connected with other survivor families and there's a page on facts about kanaka that known abusers and you can see all their mugshots, we just added another one yesterday. It was like, never ended Speaker 2 how many are there? Speaker 1 So, there are many Speaker 2 of you found. Speaker 1 Over 75 Speaker 2 over 75 sexual abusers Speaker 1 affiliated with kanak Ministries and Joe White. But there's 13 that have publicly been elected and 12 of those have convictions. There's a 13th too because of statue of limitations, is just out there, living his best life. But he was publicly alleged in USA Today, in an article that We helped with so 13 on Speaker 2 his name Speaker 1 and that's truck price, Speaker 2 Chuck price. Where's he live? Speaker 1 Saint Louis. Speaker 2 Saint Louis, Missouri. Speaker 1 That's a whole story. Yeah, I need to tell you that story because you lived in St. Louis. Right. Speaker 2 Yeah, Speaker 1 yeah. His victim lives in Utah, there's multiple of them, but all that to say, this kind of got child protection plan, that was supposed to be their Saving Grace it immediately. When we Bradberry was arrested in 2011, Chase. So, um, I don't I mean they've gotten away with this for so long. And then Trey suicide. This is after. Years of, I mean, so pin him in one way when he was 23, when Trey was 23. So, Pete Newman was arrested at age 21 and when she was 21 and then under the current civil statue of limitations in Texas, if you were abused as a child between, 1995 and 2015, you only have until the age of 23 to sue liable institutions or perpetrator. so, Trey was forced to file a civil lawsuit because he was not doing well and he needed therapy. and, That ended with a restrictive, India, a settlement agreement, that had a restrictive NDA. So we couldn't talk about what happened to him. He couldn't talk about Canucks role in all of this. And he was one of the John Doe's that filed a civil case. Pretty soon. After Pete, went to prison. And I didn't really understand. I all I remember is one point. I was going to be deposed and other family members were going to be deposed. I was pregnant with my second kid at that point. And Terry wanted to spare me from going through that positions pregnant, because it was so hard on him. Like the deposit. Canucks, lawyers are so brutal. They would guess like these victims saying things like Are you sure? You're not just depressed and struggling because your parents have a bad marriage? Are you sure just wasn't an early homosexual experience in your gay. There like, no, pretty sure it was the child rape. So I'm not doing great, they would try to pin it on anything but Can I Cook's negligence and Pete Newman as the reason for the civil litigation? So then they put him under an NDA And I just saw that NDA for the first time after we passed Trey's law in Texas. in September Speaker 2 when Man, dude 2025 and now I know why they were so scared him after the abuse. Speaker 1 All of these victims. Yeah, except one family refused to sign the NDA. Kanakuk came after them federally sanctioned them. Because they refused to sign the NDA. Speaker 2 What do you mean federally sanctioned? What does that even mean? Speaker 1 That means that their case was filed in Texas, can I cook in Missouri, right? So at that point, like even though the case was filed in Texas, it got pulled to a different jurisdiction. And the case was Federal. So then the judge ruled and not court that the case was closed, the settlement agreement had been signed, they can't come back for more now and add an NDA in there. But they had every antenna forcing that family to sign in India. And that family did not. They're the Alarcon. It's been public since then, Ashton or cone calls me sis. We're really close. He serves our country and Japan right now. An amazing kid. Now, man, just got married. And he told his dad, I want to be able to tell my story one day. And so they had to fight even their own lawyer. Their own lawyer was pushing this NDA on them. It's standard practice and we can get into all that because that's like how I Speaker 2 their own lawyer. Yeah. It's very hard to. The family's attorney was one of them to sign the fucking NDA. Yeah. They all do it. They'll never talk about how their kid was, fucking sexually. Molested and raped. Speaker 1 Yeah. And what's even sicker is that Speaker 2 buy a fucking Church. Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh. And that Speaker 2 focus is that attorney. Speaker 1 It's all of them. Speaker 2 All of them. This is this is standard Speaker 1 practice and personal injury law. Now I think are these people. These are fucking kids. These are kids kids should never be put under a contract. They can't consent to contracts his minors. So hold on, just let me replay this. So this fucker Pete Newman gets arrested then more. These people start falling Speaker 2 Then they reach out to all the victims and they fucking try to make it sound. Like it was some other event that fucked him up in the head. And then they fucking convince him to sign an NDA saying that they'll never talk about. How Pete Newman or anybody else at Camp. Can a cook was playing with their fucking penis or their vagina or shoving? Shit up their asshole or fucking dance with them naked or playing basketball with them naked, or fucking put them in Chinese for smallest massage, parlors to give him an eruption so they can fucking film it. They and in the defense attorney is having them having their fucking client sign this shit. Thanks for saying not so I didn't Speaker 1 have to Speaker 2 what the fuck. Speaker 1 Yeah, in Speaker 2 the fucking FBI. Where's the FBI? Oh FBI's doing what they always do. Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaker 2 absolutely nothing. We Speaker 1 can Circle back to that they entered the chat. Couple years back. Speaker 2 Of course they always fucking late to the party. Speaker 1 Ya like 12 years too late but Um, so yeah, that's exactly right. So, I've spent a lot of time now. Educating plaintiffs attorneys on why they shouldn't silence their own clients, but that's how widely accepted this is considered a best practice. You settle, you sign an NDA and everyone moves on, well, guess who doesn't move on the kid who cannot heal. Because they have been legally silent by a Christian kid, who's who's having Speaker 2 dreams every night of Pete fucking Newman? Jacking them off, Speaker 1 orally Bradbury or Corby, Dale Grimes or Chuck price or Paul Green or Paul Kerr or I mean the list goes on and on. There. So some of these guys were abused twice once by Pete Newman and then again, by another one Speaker 2 The shit is legal. This shit is legal, you can. How the fuck in a kid sign a document? Anyways, this what? So there's a Speaker 1 an active fraud lawsuit with the plaintiff. Who's a kid in Hendersonville Tennessee? Just down the road here. and, His parents, he was 17 when he settled his parents of the Guardians signed the settlement agreement. They own an Ace Hardware Store, like they're not sophisticated on legal Nuance, right? So these ndas they get snuck in at the Midnight Hour. It's under the guise of a confidentiality clause and you're thinking, well, I want this to be confidential because we don't want to talk about it. The kid doesn't really know what he's signing. He's not even signing it. It's his parents. So this victim was told he would have to sue his parents to get out of the NDA. and so, Speaker 2 I mean, What what, what never mind I want to say, like, what judge what attorney is going to prosecute a fucking human being for talking about how they were sexually molested and fucking raped is a child. But well, can I says the world we live in, there's lots of attorneys love to do that. I started talking about it, and there's people that are standing up and trying to call these people minor attractive person. Speaker 1 Get me started, Speaker 2 minor attractive persons, well, as a stop fuk with them, they're protected class. They are some funny. It's fucking real. Speaker 1 I laugh. Because it's so ridiculous. It's just like, yeah. So let's Speaker 2 fucking crazy. How many people are in DC? How many Americans are there, 300 and fucking 40 million Americans? There's like 200 people running the fucking show. Speaker 1 Do the math and where their priorities. Speaker 2 We fucking know where their priorities are. Sydney Epstein files yet. Speaker 1 Exactly Speaker 2 me. Neither. Speaker 1 And connected with Nick Bryant a while back on. I was trying to figure out if the canonical. Yeah, if the can a cut Network connected to what he'd uncovered And he wanted to have me on his podcast. At that point, I was too scared. I was getting Crenshaw by Kanika. They would send me cease and desist. Letters demand letters Speaker 2 getting what Speaker 1 Crenshaw? Speaker 2 oh, Bradford my situation. Yeah, that's Speaker 1 his letters and didn't work on me either, I took him to the press and Yeah, I have it here, too. I framed it. This is what, can I text lawyer sent me first? I'm not under an NDA, my brother. My dad brother was under an Indian And this is what. so, I set up no more victims after getting into this operation Millstone. And no more victims, started putting together a website called facts about kanakuk And we got the deposition tapes from the John Doe, one case because I was the only one not under NDA. And we put all this information up on facts about kanakuk.com. We have receipts on all of it. And then can I click immediately? They don't like it. They send this letter. And it's laughable, because first of all, they think I'm a law firm. And they threatened to disarm me in the state of Pennsylvania for this website. That's soliciting. Clients. Like, nope, just Speaker 2 information. Yeah. Speaker 1 Just try and get the truth out to the public. So kids stop getting raped on your watch. Speaker 2 Where's the where do I read? Speaker 1 oh, if you want to look at like their 12th points of what they want, Speaker 2 whereas the threat, Speaker 1 the Speaker 2 dear. Speaker 1 Behind that title page there. It's like 12 things they want taken off the website. And one of them is that you call Joe White's, father, skip white, his name is Spike white and my attorneys are like well, that's not defamation, that's called a typo. They also had a correction in their Corby. Dale, Grimes is an imprisoned in Florida. He's in prison in Texas. And we're like, thanks for that. We were trying to run down where he was in prison, like just stupid things that they wanted corrected. So, I sent this to the media and they published it. and, Speaker 2 You mind if we scan this and put it up all your love, everybody download it. Speaker 1 It's public. Speaker 2 This is a camp Kanika trying to silence Elizabeth so that the word doesn't get out that there are a bunch of pedos sexually abusing so Speaker 1 that was the first one. Um, there have been other other threats and things since, but I didn't have a. oh, so Speaker 2 you Speaker 1 yeah. Yeah. Let me know whoever's behind facts about can I got? I'll take him out. Thanks sent to the facts about. Can I cook email address? Where can I Cooks posing as victims to try, like, you know, fishing to see what will react to, or, we'll put something up on our website. That's not vetted. I have great peas and lawyers who've got these things before we put them up anywhere. And we, yeah, then we got I got a call from a lobbyist in DC that can I tried to hire his firm. To is like three or four things, they wanted to pop up a dark money C4 and opposed Elizabeth Phillips bills in Texas and Missouri. Speaker 2 Gotta go to DC to get that stuff done, don't you? Then it's funny how it's real. It's fucking real Speaker 1 and I'm laughing because this totally backfired on them because that DC lobbyist actually cares about kids and he immediately got in touch with me and was like, they're trying to character assassinate you oppose your campaigns. Well, I was like, well thanks, I'll let my security team know because that was not so then there's another lobbyists they went out after I got right back to me again. And all these guys are like we don't want to work with them. We want to work with you and like coal. Come on, join the good, you know, get out of there, come join, the good side and I work with a different lobbyists in different jurisdictions and they do this because they're passionate about it. A lot of them pro bono do this, and they reject business from Pedophile Rings. Speaker 2 That's the first positive thing. You've said all interview Speaker 1 I do have some hope I do. Yeah. I hope to bring a little bit of Hope to this conversation as we get through it all. Speaker 2 Let's go. We take a little break. I'm so pissed off right now. I'm shaking. Speaker 1 Let's go. Cool, Speaker 2 let's take a quick. Five minutes. Speaker 1 Sounds good. Speaker 2 Most people think waking up sores normal. It's not if you're back hips or shoulders, feel stiff. Every morning chances are. It's not your routine. It's your mattress. I didn't change my schedule or my workload, I changed my bed to a helix mattress. And the difference was immediate Helix is the real deal. 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So I know we sent you Want to stay up to date on all things. SRS you bet your ass. You do our newsletter brings you the latest SRS news and critical updates. Get instant alerts on the newest episodes. Never miss a beat exclusive Intel briefs from counterterrorism expert, Sarah Adams. You've seen her many times on the show. She's gonna give unfiltered insights on global terrorist activity for patreon. Exclusives are going to get epic range days with me and damn near every guest that's come in the studio. They're going to get behind the scenes content and guest updates. You're gonna get first dibs on new merch, drops and limited edition items that will never be sold again. Plus, exclusive offers from our partners. You won't find anywhere else. So subscribe to the vigilance Elite newsletter right now. The Money Trail: Kanakuk's Millions & IRS Investigation All right, Elizabeth for back from the Speaker 2 break. Talked about a whole bunch of stuff on the break but I'm really interested, you know, when you guys you informed at the FBI that you're coming on the show and you ask them, hey, is there anything you don't want us to talk about because we don't want to interfere in your investigation with kanako. And what was our reply? Speaker 1 So let's go back to 2023 when I first talked to them. I think that's important context. So as I said earlier, the FBI should have been involved in this from the beginning. And when I took the story to the media, the head of the Law Center for the national Center on sexual exploitation said, the FBI should be. So on top of this, it's just screaming FBI and even the guy mentioned who told Pete Newman, I'll have the FBI on your doorstep in the morning and study turn himself into the Taney County Sheriff's Department. Everyone's like FBI, this is a it's Interstate trafficking of children. And so we get to a point where we have so much information from the private investigation I'm leading with my colleagues. We start sending information to appropriate, law enforcement agencies. We start with the IRS so can I cook got IRS Church status in 2015? I mentioned, they restructured in 2003 and then they they were a for-profit then they become a non-profit. Speaker 2 You you had mentioned, you did not the way to Shield assets. Oh good. Speaker 1 And then to it all, there's a whole rate, a lot of reasons that they would do that with what we now know they knew okay Speaker 2 I mean Nathan Affleck. Kind of broke down. Why you would want to go non-profit? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 During his interview about the religion business. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, and thanks to your producer, Jeremy, I've been in touch with those guys and we're gonna do some work together. Speaker 2 I can't wait to see what you guys. Speaker 1 It's gonna be. Yeah, it's gonna piss off a lot of pedophiles. I'm excited about it. So the IRS is involved and 2023. They start their investigation that spring a couple months into that they're like it's time to bring in the FBI. Like oh good, they're on it. And I just gotten up to where my dad has a beach house and they said, can you be in Springfield? Missouri, on Monday. So I cannot I'm not getting off this island. I just got on this island, but I'll do a zoom call. And so I did a zoom call with the lead criminal investigator for the IRS and central region and he brought in the sack agent and another agent who like leads the task force on childhood exploitation and somewhere in Missouri. They're blacked out because they're all locations somewhere. They can't show where they are and but I can see the IRS agent and he's fired up like he sees this for what it is, and I go through a presentation. I have it right here. This is what I presented to law enforcement. I had like two all-nighters to pull this together because I was not in town. It's, I had my right hand woman was on maternity leave and her Deputy was helping me scramble, to put something together. We've organized, all this information. We'd been digging up for years at this point, like three years worth of tips and just pulling numbers where we could Claims can a cut can made. And so I went through this deck and I get through the page about their money and private in German and the IRS agent goes. Oh, where'd you get these numbers? And I was like, oh we just pulled this from their 990 forms. So 994 forms or what? You send to the IRS. If you're a non-profit, you don't have to do 990 forms if you're a church. So they're trying their transparency, has gotten less, and less as since 2015, when they become a church. But we were able to dig up what we could through the 990s. And we were able to trace 380 million in gross revenue, to this camp in Southwest Speaker 2 Missouri. Wow. And Speaker 1 then we calculated that. Not that out. 25% was leaving the country and going to fail States like Haiti. Speaker 2 25% was leaving the country. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So you got kanaka who soliciting donations? They have revenue from their summer camps, right? I mentioned, it's very expensive to go there. Thousands of dollars a week to go to canak. So they have earned Revenue, but then they also fundraise for the poor children in Haiti and Joe White does his whole thing about this and how Speaker 2 can they charge for the camp, if it's a non-profit. Speaker 1 Oh, It's Not Unusual. It's a faith-based camp and they charge per term for their service. So that's not unusual. There are a lot of for-profit camps too like Camp Mystic which we'll talk about in a little bit, but can I cook was a for profit Camp then they become a non-profit Camp, then they became a church non-profit which is a different tops status. So, anyways, the IRS is looking into the stairway, you know, this is the numbers in their bank accounts that when they said, where'd you get these numbers? I said, 9944 to go, well, you should see their bank accounts, which tells me it's a lot more. Than what I know. And and then I showed them the money, follow the money, right? Follow the money to Haiti. And they were funneling money to and this is I'm telling the FBI this I'm you know, the IRS has brought them in. It's like not like out of the blue, I'm cold. Calling the FBI on this. There's an active investigation, right? And so they bring these guys in and I'm like yeah, so we have at this point Here's a turd of all their entities. I mean, there's so many of them, Speaker 2 you broke down the entire organization. Speaker 1 Worked on the entire organization. We oh we found that the white family earned 11.7 million in revenue. From Cancun Ministries. Personally, But between 2006 to 2020. 9.1 million of those rental income to the white Ford profit holding companies that they don't pay taxes on. They got the county to alleviate their taxes, even though therefore prophet Two point, six million in compensation to Joe and Debbie, Joe White. Between 2006 and 2020. So, you know, I started with the numbers because this is an IRS angle and from my experience working with the anti-trafficking on profit, I mentioned earlier. um, she got rescued she and her other friend got rescued because The IRS got their pimp on money, laundering and tax evasion, not on sex trafficking. So that's oftentimes how these trafficking Rings get busted up. It's because the follow the money. Not the crime itself. So that's how I know to like, go this angle, right? Here it is. When Rick brush or becomes the director of risk management in 2003. They had a 4,000 percent increase in their insurance coverage. They knew what was coming? This is a whole time line of Okay, so no abusers at this time. One two, this is where it becomes FBI is like the known abuser list. I'm injured earlier that time we of 11 convicted Speaker 2 11 convicted. Speaker 1 Yeah, and these are all their charges. So I'm showing this to the FBI I'm via. I mean kidney, have you been in touch with the Speaker 2 insurance company? Speaker 1 and so they were actually at one point added as To the complaint in these fraud cases for civil conspiracy, the insurance company colluded with kanakuk to cover this up. So they've been named in these lawsuits Speaker 2 shit. Man, everybody's in on this? Speaker 1 Yeah, no, we need a deep dive on insurance because that's really the root of the, this is that we live in a capitalist Society. I don't know, of a better one, right? Like, it's not communism, it's not socialism, but this is the Dark Side of capitalism and I'll get into that if you want, but this, because insurance is involved and incentives are misaligned. That's what kids keep getting raped and institutional settings, because they go with what insurance will cover and insurance, will drop their coverage. If in certain cases, when and that's what was threatened here, and this situation, with can't cut So the FBI sees this, they see the numbers, then we get into Canada. And this is really disturbing. but they're like, yeah, this is a ya. Like this looks like an organized crime ring. Speaker 2 Then Speaker 1 that's your 10. How many victims? You know? I'm like 100s I have to go I don't even know the number at this point, like thousands of tips. Hundreds of victims At this point, maybe like 50, something known perps for on our end and only those that were convicted on that slide. But when you start following the money, I mentioned all that money. Dark Missions: Kanakuk's Haiti Ties & Organ Harvesting Millions of dollars going to Haiti and other countries. But the Hades situation is particularly disturbing because Joe White always flew private and his private plane. Pilot was convicted of sodomizing. His five year old daughter. This was his flying, Joe White around. To Speaker 2 Haiti convicted of sodomizing, his daughter? Yeah. Speaker 1 And then Speaker 2 Joe White know this Speaker 1 yes Joe White testified in his trial as someone who would let his grandchildren be around this man. As a character witness, he was a character witness for this guy who had sodomized his own child. And then let him stay on Camp property while waiting trial. Okay, so I'm just painting the picture here. You've got a pedophile pilot. Flying around pedophile, Pete Newman. Here he is in a Santa costume in Santa Claus. I mean in Haiti with kanaka Katie, so pedophile, Pete, with pedophile, pilot and Joe White, Speaker 2 this is, this is Speaker 1 so we know of Haiti victims, we know a victims, can't get victims from Hawaii to Haiti and who knows where else all over the world. But here's where it gets really concerning. Speaker 2 Look at this shit. Speaker 1 In the name of Jesus. So, Can I cook Haiti was founded by Joe White and 1991? And I remember when I was at Camp, the end of every session, they'd throw around like a tithing basket and you're supposed to like fund Canada. Or you could sign a baseball to find a cabin of the poor children, that kids cross America. And next door, set a scholarship in them into the mainstream camps. It's like, oh, no, the poor kids have to go over Speaker 2 here. So you could like I know we're like this way off subject. You're a Christian. How the fuck is this allowed to happen? It's not working retribution. Like where is Christ in one? The fuck. Is he going to step in? This shit is happening all over the fucking world in every community in Are is fucking everywhere and now they're using, they're they I mean, not now it's been in the Catholic Church been in all the churches forever, but it's like they're using his name to get to us to the kids. Speaker 1 It's not. What the fuck is going on? So, Speaker 2 and why, why is why? Why is God allowing this shit to happen? Where is he? Speaker 1 When we go back to Speaker 2 none of these people are getting fucking caught. They're just going back or they go to prison for a little bit and then they come back out and they do it again and do it again. Speaker 1 I want to talk about that. I want to talk about when my brother Trey was really struggling how it and then died, destroyed my face. But because then like where were you, God. Where are you? Why are you letting this happen? All valid questions, big part of my spiritual journey. and here's the thing, I read something by a theologian who studies institutional sin, So there's a you know Catholic Church ush gymnastics. Like these institutions are part of the problem, right? It's specialist when it's in the name of Jesus. um, but he wrote an article, it was targeted towards the SBC, the Southern Baptist convention, Huge pedophile problem. They don't want to do anything about. All lip service. No, real substantive reform in the Southern Baptist convention. And so he was targeting his article towards that, and this really stuck out to me. He said, Idols, demand sacrifice. like Malik, you know, it's like Speaker 2 We just covered this with Dr. Dan Schneider? Speaker 1 Is he a priest or Speaker 2 something? He is a, I don't know. He's a PhD but um, and something and Catholicism. And we went over all these old gods and Speaker 1 false gods. So If you look at this issue through the lens of institutional sin which a lot of the church wants to ignore that institutional sense of it there. It's a lot about personal sin, right? And most mainstream Evangelical theology. And we've ignored this concept of institutional sin but because of how incentives are aligned towards. Insurance. Right? And, you know, fundraising money as part of it. Um, it's created idols. People idolize, Joe white people idolize cannot cut. People idolize can't miss dick, people idolize their mega church. You name it, and when you have an idol, Idols, demand sacrifice. And our children are being sacrificed on the altar to these idols. Speaker 2 You think that's what it is. What he, what do you think, Speaker 1 child rape is a is just casualty of business. Speaker 2 Because this is what you don't think this is for pleasure. Speaker 1 Well at the pedophile level it is Speaker 2 at the Joe White level. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think there's only a couple conclusions to draw their Like I think people who empathize more with pedophiles than children. Have a problem. You're letting this guy staying on your camper property while awaiting trial. When this is just happened to his daughter. like, The dude's not right? He's still running this Camp. He still stewarding thousands of kids per summer. On his property and making shit in a money. and, Yeah, I mean I'm sure you've heard this before about the love of money is the root of all evil. so not everyone's as a complicit as Joe White, you know, there are some SBC leaders who are not pedophiles, but they're not doing anything about the pedophile problem. Why is that the institution Above All Else? So, then you have children being raped people being hurt. Well, that's the cost of doing business because we're saving so many Souls. And I've had this conversation with a lot of people, a lot of survivors, in fact, Like where is that calculus in scripture? Souls saved, outweighs children rate. Speaker 2 Yeah, but Speaker 1 that's kind of cuts messaging is well well we had a few bad actors who infiltrated our ministry? But look at all the souls we've saved. Like, that's not my Jesus. Speaker 2 and, We're saying there's potentially thousands. Speaker 1 There's definitely thousands. Speaker 2 There's definitely thousands. Speaker 1 Yeah, so, you know, only one in seven, child sexual abuse victims ever come forward. so that's like, A conservative calculation. If we know if the prosecutor on this is just Pete Newman. Remember, One cereal perpetrator. 55 victims known at the time of his sentencing prosecutor, estimating, a true Count in the hundreds. But, you know, 55 victims, came forward in the criminal trial, I know of over. 205 in our database right now. Like Pete Newman related and then way more Beyond one Speaker 2 in seven. Yeah. And then what by seven, it's like 350, right? Speaker 1 Well, if we're talking 205 Newman victims in our database that have come forward so far, time, seven. Speaker 2 Oh, 200. Holy, Speaker 1 that's Pete Newman. Speaker 2 That's just one. How many are there? Speaker 1 Over 70. So when you start following the money and seeing their goal is to continue making this Camp a cash cow but because it's serving Joe White. You just heard me saying like they've made 11.7 million in that period of time. Personally, the white family through their Church camp. That's that's where their heart lies, that's what they're pursuing. And it's, in the name of souls saved. But at what cost, right? So then they have this thing called Kanika. Katie that Joe White started in 1991. And then they partnered with an organization called cross international. And cross international was also called Cross Catholic Outreach. So there's a Catholic side to it and then the Evangelical side guy named Jim Kavanaugh was doing Cross Catholic Outreach, Joe White and him partnered up, so it's like you know, kind of does the Catholic side. He does the non-denominational side of fundraising. Cross international is 1.3 billion in general contributions. It's the 39th largest non-profit and the US. And no one's ever heard of it. Like, I've been in Philly at their, for 12 years. I've never heard of Carlson International And then like one point two billion of their annual contributions are in kind donations and medical supplies. But then when you talk to people who have flown to Haiti with Joe White or going on, these can affect Katy trips and I have obviously talked to a lot of them at this point. Like we were handing out Ziploc bags with like candy and toothbrushes and like that's not 1.3 million dollars worth of. Medical supplies. Know Speaker 2 what are they doing with the medical supplies? Speaker 1 Are there even medical supplies or Speaker 2 are they fucking selling them? What would it? Speaker 1 I don't even know if they exist. I mean. So now the claim is That they are the primary source of funding for over 6,000 kids, in Haiti, who would starve to death, if not for Joe White. And they go on these mission trips and cross international, they would give some of this money. I was mentioning to cross international as a pass through. But then some of it like to the tune of six million, just directly wired to Haiti or sorry sent by check according to their 984. They're sending checks to Haiti to these Divine shelter schools. So I sent some people to get ground truth, on this whole thing. And first they were like, well these schools, they mentioned serving don't exist, there's not even roads to get there. Speaker 2 It sounds like Minnesota. Speaker 1 Yeah. and then, Speaker 2 We kept its 80, which is weird. Yeah, that different Speaker 1 Yeah. And but this is an American Ministry Church. Sending millions of dollars to Haiti to feed the children and on their website that they just refreshed. It's not like we're going off of historical information. They very recently updated the kanaka KD website and they say, well yes, this was started by Pastor Edmond or someone and then mention another pastor and they're both dead. And so, like, who's running, can I cut Katie or like with cross international in the ground in Haiti? These two posters mentioned on your website that have been running things, they're dead. And then we we had a whistle blower. Who found us this person on the ground was a whistleblower for where this money was going. And they felt like they had to flee for their life. When they told us what was going on with these organizations that Crossing International in Canada or funding? And I won't say where they ended up but I'm glad they're safe and I hope they stay safe. But these were organizations. One was called free The Children and then they got investigated for child trafficking and organ harvesting. Speaker 2 Organ harvesting. Speaker 1 Yeah and then they rebranded and reopened under a different name. Like Overture International or something. And then kanaka can cross international still gave them money. Speaker 2 Holy shit. Speaker 1 So, to all the, can I cook donors out there, people giving them your business, your funding, this Speaker 2 organ harvesting of kids and sexual trafficking, and sexual abuse, and rape Speaker 1 and silencing kids with ndas. Speaker 2 Yeah. And then, yeah. And then silencing the kid with a fucking India. Speaker 1 Here's the numbers on that one point. Five million to free the kids. A charity run by. It's a Haitian orphanage. Run by priests boy, there. And then in 2020. Yeah. Overturn International took over governance of the kids. after someone came forward with public accusations of sexual abuse against Father, Mark the priest running it The board was aware of multiple reports. particularly Father, Mark, I mean that's mentioned like three perps And they fail to act. Until they couldn't deny the case. And Yeah, here's all the emails and things about that. American Catholic, priest accused of sexually. Assaulting a young boy and Haiti and this is all an organization that can funds and cross international funds. Sorry for all the piles of paperwork, but I just want people to know I have receipts, this isn't just Conspiracy theories stuff. This is documented. Speaker 2 I think we'll probably. I think we should just get the digital vials, all these documents and put them in the link in the description. So, all the millions of people that watch this can access the documents, I am curious in Brought up the FBI. So what, how is her investigation going into this? Speaker 1 So that's the reason I put all that together was to present it to the FBI. Then they said, let's get in touch with the 10 worst victims, which is a horrible. phrase and label, but who's been traveling Speaker 2 traumatized? Yeah, Speaker 1 there's been trafficked across state lines the most, whether it's to China Haiti or all over the US. And so I provided that I talked to the, you know, certain victims and that pool or were willing to speak, some of them are still scared or they're not. Okay. and, So I had to do, you know, a lot of calling around and make sure that this Survivor wanted to talk every time they have to talk, it brings up, you know like sure is true for Veterans as well. It's like you have to go back there. It's hard. and, So I don't take that lightly right when I'm calling us a driver for clarifying. Question, or like someone wants to speak to a Survivor like, well, he's doing okay right now. He wants to do this right now. Is it healing for them? Anyways, we do that work. We give them the list of 10 survivors willing and ready to speak. They don't want the number one thing is, they don't want this to happen to another kid. They want this to stop. Now, I'll talk to anyone. put me on not FBI was The agent starts calling around. I hear back from the survivors. They've gotten in touch with them. and then, We follow up nothing. So, this presentation I was just referring to. That was July 2023. And here we are January 2026. and, We're doing Canada's job for that. We're doing the FBI's job for them. We're going and finding these predators. Speaker 2 I'm starting to think that the FBI's job is just a fucking mouthpiece for whoever's in the White House to explain why they're not fucking doing their job. It just goes for administration to Administration to Administration and that's what they do. You get up there and you listen to them. Talk about, why the fuck they're failing again? Speaker 1 Yeah. And on this issue, they're not informed. Because again, back to when I was the board chair of an anti-trafficking organization, the Survivor leader of that organization would go train the FBI on how to spot traffic and understand it. Again, the burden falls on survivors, Time After Time. And that Survivor I mean it's almost her full-time job is going around and training law enforcement and how to understand traffic and spot it address it. so, Like, I mean, traffic is been going on for centuries. Why are we? Fighting for Justice: Trey's Law Bans NDAs for Child Victims Fire. They only talking to ten victims. What do you guys? Busy doing something. Fucking prove Speaker 1 it. Yeah. I think they made it through like four on that. Yeah. and so I mean, since 20, I started this investigation and 2021. 2020 actually. Fall of 2020. and, Here we are in 2026. I've been in touch with eight to ten law enforcement agencies at this point. Including the inspector General's office, they were looking at for PPP loan for. I was like, well, what get him on whatever you can like this point? I didn't know what An Inspector General was. I had to Google. This is not what I do, but I guess it is now. Might be the rest of my life but yeah. I mean inspector General's office HSI. FBI IRS dpd. We had an arrest in Dallas. We have Been in touch with the yeah, different jurisdictions and their law enforcement the Attorney. General Missouri. Now, two different attorney generals in Missouri. They're like, sorry, we can't do anything about. Can I cook? Because we have unique jurisdictional issues. The way it was explained is that in Missouri, there's unique jurisdictional issues where they can't act upon anything. Unless the local law enforcement brings them in. I was positively refreshed though by from some Missouri legislators. So, Um, after I uncovered, what happened to my brother? And the statute of limitations stuff started making sense like why was he forced to file? So, or before he was ready, he was 21 when his purple went to prison and he's forced to file by 23, just trying to graduate college, like heal and like, you know, wake up from this nightmare. And so, then the civil litigation process, broke him, led him to his first iconic break and I connected with these other survivors through the facts about. Can I cut Network? We were building and I started testifying in Jefferson City and started proposing bills. That would help these survivors have access to the Civil courts passed the age of 26 in Missouri. It's 26. Not been unchanged since 1938. And so, I started testifying on statue of limitations reform and the house sponsor is from Taney County. His name's representative Brian Seitz. And then our Senate sponsor is Brad. Hudson also represents Branson. So, when I told them, what was going on at Cana cook, they have zero chill about child abuse. And they were like, we will sponsor this bill. And then I went and testified in a hearing on it. Brought some survivors as well. Who testified on this bill? The house Judiciary Committee was just mind-blown. Everyone like there had heard a cockroach because if you don't have, if you don't sing your kids to kanaka, then you go to k life. That there's something everywhere in Missouri, organic related in another state. And this lobbyist came up and testified in favor on behalf of Mayor Milton of Branson. And I lost it. I cried. Because I was like, finally. There are people that are standing with survivors. And they don't care that. Can I cook one of the top Revenue drivers? If not the top Revenue driver to the part of the state, the mayor France is on our side. And the house rep from the area and the senator who represents that District. Or standing with survivors. And I love that here in the lobbyists for me or Millington. Pulled me aside, he's like I've got two daughters. I'm so pissed off after hearing everything. I just heard How can I help you? And I'd never worked with a lobbyist and my mind lobbyists are like shady. and, Yeah. So here's like I want to help and I would just call him and ask a question. He was like, no like I really want to help like it's getting to the point where you need to retain a lobbying from because you have a lot of opposition. I'm like who you know, at this point I'm kind of like unaware. he's like oh, you know just like the whole Insurance Lobby and tort reform people and the Catholic church and the Boy Scouts of America like There's been, I don't even know what their budget is for lobbying. Definitely more than Speaker 2 what Speaker 1 I can come back as one person. Even though I'm fundraising now, for like our efforts like back then, I was like, I can't go up against an industry like insurance. I had some attorneys on my side who had seen the darkness because of cases, they've taken on Speaker 2 so they trying to shut down the law. Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaker 2 that's what they're doing. Speaker 1 They don't want nda's release. Speaker 2 Okay, they Speaker 1 don't want the statue of limitations changed because then it opens all these cases up Speaker 2 and Speaker 1 the insurance companies have to pay out those settlements. Speaker 2 Gotcha. Speaker 1 So, This lobbyist shout out to mark good man. He's like I want to help you former firefighter. Like I don't think he'll I think he went to college eventually but like he was a first responder. He'd been very successful at getting like mental health. Things done for First Responders in the Missouri legislature as a lobbyist. Father of two girls who's like, I want to help you city of Branson's on your side. We've got representative sites and Senator Hudson. And you need real lobbyists. So they took us on and then so that was Missouri. And then in Texas, through mutual friends got connected to one of the PowerHouse lobbying firms in Austin. And they've been working with me, pro bono. For a couple sessions now, the Texas legislature meets every other year Missouri meets every year. so, In Missouri, it's usually like a 123 step process, not getting things passed, and like one session. then Texas, because there's a Like a gap between sessions, you kind of get a little more panicked. If you don't pass something that session, it's going to be two more years before you can even get something else done. But yeah, we got trays law passed in Texas in Missouri. Speaker 2 Did you have any help from any people in Congress or anybody to get that push through and Texas or Missouri? Speaker 1 Yeah, so I mentioned our bill sponsors in Missouri who represent kanaka's District, which I'm sure just upset. but we got that done and then and that applies to child sexual abuse and trafficking victims. So minors and it's for cases that arose on or after August 28th of last year. 2025. In Texas, we got a version of Trey's law passed, that covers all survivors of sexual assault regardless of their age. And regardless of, when it happened, And that was a really interesting process. I had representative Jeff leech as our house Champion, he's also the house Judiciary chair and he gave us the opportunity to provide an interim briefing, to his committee. So that's super helpful because before the next session even starts your briefing them on this issue so that they can decide how to prioritize it. Who should carry the bill, those kinds of things, Jeff carried for us on the house side because this was personal his wife's a disclosed Survivor, she got the Civil statute of limitations extended to age 48, back in 2019. um, and that's great but it wasn't retroactive. So again as I mentioned if you were abused between 1995 and 2015 in Texas, you still only have until the age of 23 to sue. Then it got extended to like 33 knots, 48. But that only applies to victims after 2029, sorry, 2019. So, since that was passed in, 2019, it only applies to survivors who were abused after 2019, they have until age 48. But Jeff Leach. This was personal to him. And then I meet with Senator Angela PacSun. And turns out it's quite personal to her as well. She's a former school teacher and counselor She's a mother and a grandmother. And she is a zero chill about child abuse. And I told her about a former student of hers. That is under an NDA. Was now I can say was under an Indiana. And he had been in her 10th grade math class. And when I said, I'm not going to say his name, but like when I said so and so says hello, and this is personal to him. She burst into tears and she told her team. This is why God put me in the legislature. Oh, to pass this bill. Speaker 2 There is a good person in their Speaker 1 So I want people to know they're not all bad. There are people that have fought with me tooth and nail what I mean by that is Speaker 2 what's her Speaker 1 name? Angela Paxton. She's done a lot of good for kids in Texas. Her husband's a politician, too. And say she knew the wrote and yeah, she is a writer died champion on this in Texas and then there's a representative named Mitch little And he's a practicing attorney in the area of child, sexual abuse. So as we were drafting the bill, we had a constitutional issue. So under the Texas, I think it's even in the Bill of Rights not just in the Constitution, but no retroactive laws can be made. And I really in Texas needed the law to be retroactive. but, because It's my brother's story, right? It's that student of Senator Paxton's story. Not, they were put under these ndas. you know, after the Newman Scandal so they needed this to be retracted to be free from their NBA's otherwise it's just helping future victims would just still good, but The conflict with the constitution in Texas was an issue. And in Missouri, it's not retroactive because we have to address the Constitutional conflict there, but Mitch little being a brilliant lawyer. He came up with a loophole and he said, anyone who wants to enforce an existing NDA has to get a special court order to keep it in effect. Otherwise all ndas are void and unenforceable in the state of Texas after September 1st 2025. And I thought that was a brilliant strategy because it forces, the Bad actors to reveal himself. You want to take that abused kid to court and get a special court order to maintain that child's NBA? Or that victims in De. Show your face. So Speaker 2 look Speaker 1 what we accomplished in Texas is Monumental. It's the most sweeping NDA reform anywhere in the country and probably world. There have been other NDA reforms passed like the Speak Out act, which applies to sexual harassment in the workplace. That was led by Gretchen Carlson and Julie Rogan ski. They were Roger, Ailes victims, that Fox News. And I got to know Gretchen when and their nonprofits called lift our voices and they're still working on this issue but it's workplace related like pre-dispute nda's in the workplace. So like I mean then it's valid, it's important work. Think about the McDonald's worker, who signs an employment contract. They don't understand ndas they don't understand their signing away, their right to a court because they get sent to arbitration behind closed doors just by signing that Employment contract. So what Gretchen and Julie are doing is really important and just leaves out kids. And so the Speak Out. Act passed out early in 2022. And that's for pre dispute NBA's and workplace, sexual harassment case cases. And I got connected through Gretchen, when I was on the board of women's philanthropic Network. And she had joined, as a new member we had members day. She talked about lift her voice is and what she was trying to do, I signed at her and I said, this is my brother's story. And she goes, I've never heard of a kid being put under an NDA. That's horrible. So, we got on a call and I told her trade story. Unseen Scars: Trey's Battle with Trauma and MK Ultra And she said, you need to talk to Nancy French. She lives in Franklin Tennessee. She's a ghost writer a celebrity Memoirs. She likes spent 30 days in Wasilla Alaska with the palins writing some books. She did a book for Mitt Romney. She did Sean Johnson the Olympic gymnast, she she's had a like I hope she writes a book one day about all of the book, she's written behind the scenes are Crazy. But I didn't know Nancy. French. I just went off this lead from Gretchen, she was, you need to write a book. And then once you have your book, you can option it into a film. Get this story out like what like bombshell in their store case. Helped people understand the Roger Ailes story in the Fox News stuff Speaker 2 or Speaker 1 like Spotlight. Right? The Catholic Church crisis thought movie helped exposed the scale and the scope of the situation. So, I get on a call with Nancy for 45 minutes. She is a disclosed Survivor of clergy abuse when she was 12 Vacation. Bible School teacher when she was 12 and the Church of Christ in Kentucky. and I told her what I was uncovering and working on and she was like, I don't know how I can help like yes, I'm a ghost writer but This needs to get out to the public ASAP. So anyways, we like stayed in touch. She's an amazing writer. And so as like if nothing else, look at this facts about cannot cook website and help me out with how do we get the word out? And then I met this woman who on a blog post about the Pete Newman, arrest in a local, like a local blogger entertaining County had written about Pete, Newman's arrest and someone left her full name and address and said I reported Pete Newman. Well, before he was arrested because my daughter saw him abusing a boy in the woods. I contact her she'd investigated on her own as a freelance journalist for like four years. And I said, I acquire your research, I got her research, we organized it into like six binders. I take those binders out to Franklin, Tennessee, to meet with Nancy French and I'm going over the evidence like some of the stuff I showed you. Like they knew in 2003. Why are they putting him under boundaries of like no nudity with children. No sleeping one on one with children. If he's not sleeping one on one with children. And her husband David. He started a media platform called the dispatch with some other guys, and it was a right-leaning conservative media Outlet. And he walked in and he brought his lunch while we were going through all these binders trying to figure out like how do we write a book about this? Or what are we doing with this information? Because it has to get out and he heard me say 500,000 kids have gone through this place. 50,000. And then heard the NDA part. He was like what? So infuriated he had just exposed Robbie Zacharias, so whistleblower friend. And the Ravi Zacharias Scandal. Huge big televangelist who very well known around the world and then he died. And all these people came out about how they'd been trafficked by Robbie Zacharias, so her Nancy has been David French had just exposed that So he was like, India's all of the things where it's like the same thing, just another version of it and this is kids. And so, By the time I flew back to Dallas. They were like this. Can't wait on a book. We need to get this out to the public ASAP. So that's how the first articles came out on the dispatch and not platform. It's like a substack model kind of platform. So, not mainstream. I couldn't get mainstream media to write about this, okay? Speaker 2 Of course, I won't touch it. Yeah, they ever touched it. Speaker 1 Well, Speaker 2 Somebody did I Speaker 1 went top down on. I had a friend who was vice president of Gannett Communications. And I told her I'm stuck, I can't get Springfield News-Leader the local paper. To write about this. So we had the dispatch. And then it got picked up by some other organic Communications. Yeah. Speaker 2 Like Northeast, Speaker 1 they own USA Today and like a big media conglomerate. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 And I had worked a so, One point towards the end of college. I interned for the RNC, the Republican National Convention with this friend and we both studied corporate Communications and public affairs were both trained in crisis PR. That's how I saw, what can I was doing? Because that was my degree. Speaker 2 Wow. Speaker 1 And so I call her and she was like, this is ridiculous. I'm Gonna Get You On a zoom call with the head of investigative reporting for our whole company. And then they brought in the regional head for USA Today. we finally got five articles published in USA Today in the Springfield News Leader, but because I told them that if they don't report on this than their part of the cover-up, Speaker 2 Nice. Speaker 1 And then they ran five articles I think. Yeah. Catching up for lost time. Speaker 2 Nice Speaker 1 and would be a better anyways. But once we got USA Today that led to a Vice news piece, we actually won an Emmy on that about the nda's. Back in, we want an Emmy in 2022 for that. Speaker 2 Nice Speaker 1 Vice news, vice TV is not around anymore, but they did a responsible good job on that story. We had to have victims with anonymized treatments because they were scared because the ndas I'm speaking out. So they had to do like, you know, the blackout. Treatment for these victims to talk. And then we did a CBS Survivor. Sit down. I hosted in Dallas flu victims and from around the country. Same thing anonymized treatment. Everyone was so scared because of these ndas. so after the dispatch articles and David and Nancy, put their stamp of credibility on it, David's, now, at the New York Times and he's mentioned in a couple of his opinion pieces, the Canucks Scandal and they're both Christians and they have three kids and now grandkids they don't, they don't like this stuff. So, I still talk to them frequently and they're always trying to help make intros get this covered. Um, so the mainstream media, eventually followed, but that was not who wanted to tell this story. Initially, in fact, the woman, I mentioned who, I recently, I acquired her research, And put it in binders, she had taken the story. She did four years of investigating this. And then she took the story to Vanity Fair. And they said, oh, we have abused fatigue. We just did a story on Catholic abuse. So she gave up on it. Unfortunately you know we got connected it was a year almost a year to the day after trade I because My therapist I'd been working with. When Trey was not doing well. So, I had little kids. Oh my hats, you know day job stuff. And I was going to visitation hours in psych, wards or visiting, train, and rehab, and it got to the point where I was getting unhealthy. Right, I'm big says but I'm also Mom. and also stewarding this Foundation role I have and all these boards, you know, like I couldn't just full-time take care of Trey. But everywhere, we went fail them. Mental health systems and mess. I've seen the guts of it. It's not great. Medications. He tried would make them fat or like make the depression worse. he was on and off suicidal, for For years. I never knew when it would be the last time. I you know, these phone calls or visits like I always left thinking that could be the last time, you know, and I'd go from like Purple line. Or I'd see a, can I cook bumper sticker? To visiting Triana site Court. and, I understand why you don't want to live in this world. Every everyone in Dallas, just thinks Canada's like, I mean not anymore but like for the longest time, People still sending their kids there. He felt so unseen and he couldn't talk about it. I would listen, I'm so glad I leaned in. I listened to everything. He wanted to tell me. And a lot of it, got super dark. And he was a brain researcher. He was brilliant. He was working at the Langer lab which is shared program between MIT and Harvard. And you're studying the brain, I think, because he wanted to fix his own. So really smart kid growing up National Merit scholar, not finalists not familiar like 0.01% like on that test. He? Always wanted to be pre-med. He had the he could have been a brain surgery, I mean he was brilliant. Well, rounded football. And cross-country like athletic, all the things he goes out. And then there's depositions like I mentioned his first iconic break. Thanks, can I cut? So it's like the child sexual abuse. And then you had the institutional abuse and the gaslighting. And there's depositions. And then the in and out of Treatment Center's, some he would leave without even a diagnosis just like 20 more medications. Nothing was working or helping. and so, he started like, deep diving, and He came out to live in North Carolina with us for a month. And he was two here, going to go to a certain therapist's office. I got him in because of my Foundation while I was doing some work with the University of North Carolina in Greensboro, on healthy relationships. So these guys are all psychologists And so I called the head of the department, great counseling department. I'm like, who's the best person in town for complex PTSD, like, I, I don't know if my brother's gonna make it, right? I've got little kids. I'm dealing with too. And he gives me a name. We go and we meet with that therapist, and I have to sign the intake forms, and like my own interests. He's too. He's in a ball in the corner. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 1 We get in the office. with the therapist and he's totally like almost had a tonic closed off. and then, I asked this woman. tell Trey about other clients, you've had And she goes into, well, I've treated MK Ultra victims. and, I didn't know what I was like, what? And Trey. suddenly came to and was like, oh, Yeah. Okay, like not earned his Trust. And she had clients like, starting back in the 80s. Who would be in session with her and they'd hear an ice cream truck and just go into a trance and follow the ice cream truck. and then go back and forth between like being a three year, old a 30 year old a 15 year old, you know, like that multiple personality thing so she's like, I've seen it all and What's going on and Trays? Like tell her about Canada. So like I would tell about kanaka you don't want to talk about it. and, She's like your symptoms are a lot like victims. I've seen who survived satanic ritualistic abuse or like this? Okay, Ultra stuff. that's where I'm like, you know, I'm just saying there as a supportive sister, but I'm also listening and, I go buy every book I can on MK Ultra, like all this stuff. I thought it was a conspiracy theory and then I come back to we moved back to Dallas eventually and I got to really lean into helping my brother so that lady was in North Carolina. Move back to Dallas find other therapists same thing. So sometimes he's 15, sometimes he's seven, sometimes he's 30 something. And like what did Canada do? Like what did they do to you? So it wasn't just like one therapist. who was like, crazy is like, Everywhere he went. When I was included, I got to see, I got a front row seat to his suffering. And I learned a lot. About how these networks work. It's never just one perpetrator. It's never just one victim. the ritualistic abuse going on in the name of Jesus like This guy who was abusing these kids was also baptizing them. Speaker 2 And Speaker 1 reading scripture over them and praying over them as the abuse is helping. It shattered my face. Speaker 2 Reading scripture over them. Speaker 1 Did your brother tell you that? Oh, I've talked to so many survivors. Not so Trey was scared to talk. Because of the NDA. And he told the therapist in Dallas. She's in the same building as the guy who wrote the book, CIA doctors. call in Ross, I think his name I read that I started educating myself and the MK Ultra stuff's Declassified. Like I just totally thought Trey was being like psychotic or something, that was like, oh that's I did my own research, I was like The steps for real. And I met doctors that, like, treat these patients and Traced symptoms lined up. But with all that and I'm like, oh my gosh. And then four days english, four days like very close to His death, he reached out to that therapist. And said, they'll always control me and I'll never be free. And then he killed himself. I'm sorry. And when when I started going around to meet with his therapists, Here, like all the same things over and over and over again. I've just like victims they've treated and how it's hard to at that point. Like and then there was also like drugs and addiction involved and traced like it's just so hard to come back from that. I'm like all the medications and the failures. Of different doctors you can help them. I learned pretty early on. I couldn't save them. so, you know, as a big sister, you're like I'm supposed to protect my little brother's and I couldn't, um, so I had, you know my own therapist walking me through all this She was really cool. She's retired now. But she PhD. Messianic Jew. So like she is ethnically Jewish but she came to know Christ her housekeeper, converted her. to to Christ and she had a really cool face. and she helped me understand like how to set up boundaries like you don't have to go to Every visitation hours, you don't have to go to all his therapy like You have to self-care. Because your mom, you're all these other things too. You're not just trades. Big sister. my parents were going through a divorce the time to Perfect Storm. So she said you need to take a year and just grieve. And I'm a very action-oriented person. Sean can't tell. So. That was hard. To heat, right? Like, what do you mean just grieve? Like just cry all the time for a year. Like I I've got stuff to do. And she's like, no just great like sit in the grief. Feel like if you can't feel it, then you'll never heal from it. If you have to feel it to heal it and the Jewish faith tradition, has some really cool stuff around grief like the way that they do funerals and the way the community supports each other when someone passes away and she's like, you need to go through the first four seasons without your brother before you take any action. like just grieve it and there's really good advice for someone like me but then about a year. Like literally she said, grief for a year, then that year passed. Beyond Abuse: Kanakuk's Surveillance & Therapist Collusion I'm like okay. I'm gonna do something. That's when I got on the middle of the night. and I find this blog post, and it's called the Turner report and he was like, A local journalist who did his own blogging thing and Taney County. And he'd posted about Pete Newman's and diet mint and then like reported on the criminal trial proceedings. And that's where I found that comment from, that woman, whose daughter had witnessed Pete with a boy in the woods and then acquired her research and all that. I got a burner phone after that. Like a drug dealer. And I would take, I'd get tips because in trays obituary We? We said my parents and I like her family. Agreed, like, we are going to name this abuse. So many people were confused like what's wrong with Trey? he was like a straight A student football player like Trey was it. He was like the man, all the girls wanted at Trey, like all the boys want to be treated like and then, Suddenly, he's dead. Not so silently, actually it was a slow decline. All horrible. and, Yeah, so he and his obituary. We wrote all those things that were great about him. And at the end, we said, he was a can of cut camps abuse, Survivor And a friend to other survivors. He could help and so, that was out there in the Dallas Morning News and we started getting Outreach from You know, like the me too movement. I call this kid's too. because we kept getting all these calls about, Our family. We think our son might have been abused at cannot cook. He's never talked about it. Or a direct victim, reaching out. And I need to be really careful because one thing we knew from the Civil Case is that Hanukkah would put peas on the victims. And they would like pull their trash and surveillance them. To get like, you know, any evidence of homosexual Behavior drug you and then use it against them in depositions. And all these vectors. I've talked like, so many of them are like, yeah, I was followed by a black SUV, like I thought Trey was just Like getting schizophrenic or something like I didn't. But now that I didn't believe him, I was just like skeptical. And then you hear it enough times. You're like That is so evil. That can I cook and their attorneys would surveillance victims and they also set up a hotline in the wake of pizzas. That would report back to themselves. Like victim support at Cana cook.com. And then that's how they getting me. That's how they grew. Their list of victims is like, victims supported. Can I still up on their website? And so, then Speaker 2 serious. Yeah. Speaker 1 And they can intercept the victims and Joe White would offer some families. A trip to Disney World, a fancy hunting trip. Like 100,000 dollars for treatment. But it comes with an NDA. Speaker 2 Shit. That's still on the website. Yeah Speaker 1 it's a victims of support at kindergarten.com. I Speaker 2 think we'll pull it up on screen right now. Speaker 1 Yeah, they have this R response page because Speaker 2 that way if there's any victims you know, they can Speaker 1 Not to their abuser. Yeah, not go there. Well, it's worse than that too. They had counselors in their network of counselors and they would send people to this guy. And then things that a victim would say in their counseling session. Thinking they are. It's confidential. Hello HIPAA Things. They would have only told that Counselor come up and up positions. Speaker 2 Holy shit. Speaker 1 So this is very like Scientology. I mean, this is not the only cult that does this, but That's what they were doing to the downstairs, too. And then can I cook would pay the counter like paying voices? They would say, oh, you deserve free therapy. Well pay for your therapy but they wouldn't give the victim. The money. They would pay that therapist and therapists would report back. Do Speaker 2 you have the name of Speaker 1 the therapists? Oh yeah. Speaker 2 Is there any legal records to them? Speaker 1 No Speaker 2 nothing, Speaker 1 no. I mean I Speaker 2 went breaking HIPAA, not any of that. Speaker 1 now, I mean, I think that so that I'm thinking of one in particular like the one I have the most on He? Was at a Baptist Church in Branson. and I think when a lot of this came out in Discovery and these lawsuits, they fired him, or he's no longer in that role of that church, But yeah, there's a network of therapists that feed them information back to Canada. So Speaker 2 they Can cook recruited therapists. To talk to their victims. And then have them report, the deepest darkest, most disgusting sexual abuse back to them so that they can cover it up. These are fucking licensed therapists. Speaker 1 Yeah, and the victims. That would tell me this, I'd be like report them to like try to get their license revoked, right? Like I don't personally Have a right? Because it didn't happen to me, but I tell the victims that happened to him, like, please report this to the license in agency in Missouri. But he should lose his license. Speaker 2 Holy shit. Speaker 1 Joe White also claims to just, I think what's the most Speaker 2 how do you, how do you find this many people who are like, Okay, with sexually, abusing kids. like they they did everything but put a fucking recruitment like posture up that says, hey if you if you love to sexually Abused kids. Sign up here. Speaker 1 Exactly. So like that's why it's so important. When an institution has a case of child sexual abuse that they have an independent investigation, Into that organization, not a law from the cover, you know them, but to have an independent investigation that looks into the scope and scale of the abuse that's occurred because it's, I have never seen a case where it's just one perpetrator just one victim, like they're, they're usually tied into a special with, like, the online stuff, so intersectional with the institutional abuse, right? Because they desensitize their victims by using porn a lot of the time or in the case of kanaka and some of these other like somebody's of God and Certainly Catholic Church abuse, as BC stuff. They use an element of spirituality to it. Like Pete Newman would tell boys that if they masturbated with him in a hot tub, they were still sexually pure because they were not doing it with a woman. So and and that ties back again to Joe white's books about Teen Purity. So like from the top, you have this dude who's obsessed with teen sex and purity. And then his own words and philosophy and theology are twisted by these. Pedophiles that come to work at Hanukkah and then they get caught abusing kids and Joe White's like oh it's just boys being boys. I thought it was immature. I didn't think it was criminal. He says things like this and the deposition tapes we have and He was like there you know, just Speaker 2 have him saying that. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, we have hours and hours of deposition videos. Speaker 2 Can we put him up? Speaker 1 Yeah, let's put him up. I got Speaker 2 weekend, insert him into this, Speaker 1 please. Please Speaker 2 send it. Send it to us. Speaker 1 Just wait till you see, this guy's face lift too. He looks great. Speaker 2 Thank you. Can Speaker 1 like what in the Kenneth Copeland is going on here? You know that like that's Speaker 2 exactly who just popped into vinegar and Speaker 1 yeah, that's it. Yeah, you would agree with me that we can't trust. What? Says, or has said about the number of victims or the extent of the contact with individual victims. Speaker 2 It's hard to know what to trust and what not to trust. Joe White's Deposition: Newman's Parole & Cover-Up Costs Well, Speaker 1 do you trust him at all? Speaker 2 Got trust him at all. When he sent us a list. I believe that there was a list of approximately approximately 18 or 19 names Speaker 1 22. I Speaker 2 think. Yeah. Okay. That list and I forget the exact date of that list. It was Sent. Well, there was a, I'm referring to a list that he sent to Chris Cooper Speaker 1 and Speaker 2 I can't tell you the date but I talked to A number of those. Parents of those victims and have subsequently had conversations with a number of the children of those. And it was consistent with the list that there were two or three boys that he said he had touched on the list that was consistent. there was 16 ish boys that he sat on the list that he hadn't touched. And that has been consistent. So there's a degree of trust there that that investigating that particular list. Yeah. Speaker 1 He's ended up position saying things like we didn't fire peep because These incidents of nudity were like two drops in a Cascade of Applause and praise. And all the victims we were watching these deposition tapes, we're like those two drops. Those are poisoned the poison the whole. Wow, or waterfall. Whatever your metaphor is like I'm pretty sure scriptures says like if one sheep goes missing and you've got 99. You go after the one lost sheep, like go after those drops of water, those poisonous drops of water that most people would call felony acts, and of focusing on the Applause of praise and money coming in through this Rainmaker directors, Obviously naked with kids all the time because you're riding contracts to say stop spinning so much time, naked with kids. You're like, revising. His HR document to say no more one-on-one sleepovers spend more time with your wife, Katie lesson about time with kids, like it's unbelievable. And this is out there. So since the dispatch articles dropped in 2020, Speaker 2 whereas this guy in prison Speaker 1 Jefferson City, Correctional Center, Speaker 2 How is he not fucking dead? Usually, these guys get killed in prison. Here's protecting them. Fuck man, you're right. Oh, and Speaker 1 I had to protest his parole. And 2024. So here's some Missouri, math. Three life terms. And he was up for parole after serving 15 years. Because in Missouri, a life sentence is 30 years. So that's kind of weird. I'm 38, I've outlived my life span then. He had three of those. Three 30 year, so 90 years of prison. But under the current criminal code in Missouri, you're up for parole after serving half of one life term, which is 15 years, and then you're up for Pearl again. Everyone to five years after that. First hearing, So, I set up a website protest. Pete's parole.com. And we got, I mean, his opposition file has to be this thick. we got thousands of letters and emails sent in to the victim, specialist office and Then he had his hearing. And he started it by. I spent a lot of time in jail Counting my victims, it was only 55. Like that was gonna be a good look for him. Only 55. And we know it's, you know, it's like and like, if you count I I don't consider myself a Like I guess I am a, can I cook a victim? But not a direct victim like my brother was, but if you start counting the family members of these victims, That might be hundreds of thousands of people. It was lives up in Shattered by this. If I can't cut like Pete plus the 70 plus other perks, we know about. Times, all the ones we don't know about. And then the collateral damage in these families. And our laws. Protect these institutions and these predators. And they can walk. I mean, we just posted a new perpetrator on our own facts about kanaka yesterday. Because she got out of prison after three years. So that's a woman on. So kind of got, we know, female and female crime. Male and female male on me. My brother's story. so, it's the culture of We only care about counting the souls, we've saved. Not the kids who get harmed along the way. You talk to Joe White about it. I mean, we've gotten him on a couple phone calls and it's like, he just starts weeping and playing the victim himself. Speaker 2 Do you know, Andy for Zella by chance? Speaker 1 No shit. I, Speaker 2 you should probably know him. He's a supplemental first form. He's a good friend of mine. He's a Missouri. He's in Saint. Louis. I know he's got some deep connections. I wanted to show. Speaker 1 I love that. Speaker 2 He's not fucking scared anything. Speaker 1 I'll talk to anyone who listened. Speaker 2 I just Speaker 1 At one point. I got connected with James O'Keefe project veritas. And that. So they were on this like they were doing it and several Zoom calls. and then when I had breakfast with James and Dallas one time, I explained this summer camp situation. He goes, I've never was, but I've never thought about this. Camps are the perfect places to indoctrinate children. Like yes, this American Summer, Camp tradition. Is send your kids off into the woods for a month which strangers? And hope they come back in one piece. But parents don't have a lot of I mean they could have gone to the camp themselves but you don't get a lot of communication. You don't have a lot of insight into what they're teaching her kids, you know that like whole culture situation at the alarming, if you're there for a month. Like, I would usually only go for one or two weeks. Tray went for a month. But yeah. So project Veritas was like, this is so messed up, like, how can we help? and I briefed them, and men James left project Veritas and it was new leadership and something and like I followed up and followed up and followed up and I don't think and yeah, it's yeah. I actually we were teaming up with project Veritas the first time I interviewed Ryan about all of that stuff and they were actually we actually held the episode to release it at the same time because I had a bunch of stuff too and then they backed out. So it was just me. And Ryan. Yeah. Only ones talking about this shit. Yeah. Well. New bestie. Thanks for caring. Yeah, well, I just let that I just how could you not? Everyone will tell you they care about child, sexual abuse. and then, when it, when the rubber meets the road, They don't they don't want to do it. These people give a shit. I just told you. The last time when we brought up roadblocks, they took a six billion dollar haircut and one week and I quit. I quit tracking it, after that, we'll throw the graph update the day. We release that up. Soaked. It went. Speaker 2 Plus 6 billion and one week Speaker 1 good, because that's how you have to do it. You have to hurt them where it hurts and it's they care about the bottom line. Speaker 2 Unfortunately, it's ridiculous. That's like that's that's the win. Oh yeah. How many kids have been fucked up because that game, how many kids are dead? How many kids of cards slut into their forehead? Because of fucking roadblocks and our win is like, oh yeah, we took six billion from them. Well, at least they don't have to run around with slut carved in their fucking forehead. Everywhere they go. Speaker 1 Have you seen? I that's Speaker 2 a 764 Satan called shit. Speaker 1 Well that's a kind of victim has that in her leg. Speaker 2 What? It was a day they were doing that kind of this Satanic ritual. oh, I mean, it all is right at all, all that sexual abuses but that's That's a visible mark. Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't know if I believed in all of that stuff and then I met someone who ran the office for victims of crime ABC. and he put me in touch with my peas and he had just talked to some survivors of SRA and as I go is that real like you know I'm still trying to process all of that at this point I'm like I've heard this from therapists over and over again. And he was like Elizabeth I didn't I didn't think that was real. Until I started meeting all these survivors. And he's like, I just met with one in Missouri. Like again what the Missouri is going on and and she had no legs, they, they could cut off her legs. Speaker 2 They they cut off her legs. Where was she from Speaker 1 Missouri? Speaker 2 What I mean? What? From this Speaker 1 not no, not I can't cook victim. Like just a satanic ritualistic abuse victim. And so this guy he was like, I didn't I thought it was like You know, it's very dark and he's seen a lot of Darkness. And he was skeptical until he started meeting these victims. And he's like, it's very real. I've talked to enough of them. Now to be convinced and I was like, well, here's what I know about what happened to Trey and then there's these other victims like the things carbon their leg and stuff and like Speaker 2 this is this is this Commonality on a can of cookbook comes to have. Speaker 1 The The Carving those words that you mentioned, I've seen it once. Physically. I mean, personally seen it once. Traded other things to self-harm but not that. But yeah, I've seen this Speaker 2 was their own. I mean I know it all stones from something. So I don't want to. Take away from that. What I'm talking about is the seven six four or the the the perpetrator would have the victim carve that into them. We're talking about the same shit. Speaker 1 Yeah and you know like I was saying earlier The Playbook is the you start wondering when you look at you meet with or talk to Catholic survivors. SBC victims, you know, Kanika, these institutional situations. You're like, what book are they all reading? Because it's the the patterns across these Institution. Speaker 2 Well, we uncovered that a couple weeks ago, too, that, I mean, there's that there are, I mean, you've already brought it up. I can't remember if it was on the brake or if it was on right here but I mean there's manuals everywhere. On how to do it. Definitely book. I mean, there's tons manuals. Speaker 1 Yeah, no, like so what I showed you in, Rick brushless PowerPoint. He's like, here's the literal book on how to find children and abuse them. And now that there's so much online, you know, you don't need the physical book anymore, its just these chat rooms and stuff. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 The fact that Pete Newman's devices were never investigated for child, sexual abuse material. That keeps me up at night. The fact that Speaker 2 It's a fucking cover up. Speaker 1 Know what else? I mean. So literally, they hired being a corporate Communications. Major we had this firm a huge PR from one of the largest in the world. They would send someone in as like guest lectures and our classes. And there's one on crisis Communications. And then I noticed when I started going back and digging into all this Pete Newman stuff in the cover-up, I couldn't find anything mentioned about Pete Newman as it associated with kanakuk until like the 9th page of Google search results. So, I'm like this, they've spent Millions on this cover up, right? Like, I just knew that from my background and then the spokesperson for Canada. His name and I Googled it, and he was the head of Crisis, for the Americas, for this large PR firm. and, Now, he like works for the FED somewhere, but they hired the best crisis comes firm and team in the country to cover this up. and I my team and I have like, Calculated probably like two million dollar. Budget for this crisis, pure cover up. And now what I know they're offering these lobbyists to oppose my bills like trees on so well reform and Camp saved. D. They are. Telling us their budget. like they offered that DC lobbyists to 250k, they offered more to the Austin lobbyists and it's like, Okay, well, just keep a spreadsheet going on. How much money you're willing to spend against me on passing these child protection laws? Speaker 2 Good fucking local news comes out. you can't buy this kind of PR Speaker 1 well, I'm grateful for the opportunity, those Speaker 2 people Speaker 1 I mean, yeah. Expanding Trey's Law: Federal & State NDA Reform It's It's been a really eye-opening. Six years. Speaker 2 This shit is gonna send. It's gonna go big. I fucking I just can feel it. People are gonna be pissed. Speaker 1 I hope so because this is righteous anger. This is what righteous anger is for. We need to be pissed about the right things. We need to be a enraged. By what's happening at canak and these other camps. I mean facts about canaca is a whistleblower website that a bunch of survivors pulled together can I cook Survivor put together our social media because he does that for work and you know the Survivor Army is growing and they're getting their voices and now they can legally talk, at least the ones with Texas cases, we just filed it in Alabama trees lost in Alabama to end, ndas and child sexual. Recent trafficking cases in Alabama, we're filing in Oklahoma alongside dramatizations reform. um, and yeah, if your audience wants to bring this to their state, let's go. Speaker 2 They're Gonna want to Speaker 1 and federally. I just got word this morning that Senator Ted Cruz. My senator from Texas. He is going to sponsor trays law federal Speaker 2 That's awesome. Speaker 1 Yeah, and he's going to try to do it with the senator gillibrand. She carries the Speak Out act so she's very familiar with this NDA issue. And so Speaker 2 Who's your congressman Speaker 1 and we are talking to several, a lot of them want it. And Congressman I says office was really interested in this. He's a republican out of California. California has a version of Trades law. That was part of a broader Crime Victims at and so we don't need to pass Trace along California. They've already covered this base but it's only Tennessee. Go Tennessee, 2019 that there was a plaintiff's, attorney a Democrat and a very Republican legislature who said this is evil and he he's deceased now but Representative back in Tennessee. It's just it's like two lines one sentence that NBA's in child sexual recent trafficking cases should be void and unfortunately as against public interest of the state There was no hearing they like they're just no testimony in the committee. Unanimous. Zero. No votes. And yeah, so that was 2019. So anyone under an NDA in Tennessee since 2019 void and unenforceable And you have to change the wall because the lawyers. Don't even know. That's a loss sometimes. But so, the lawyers are going to keep putting victims under nda's. So you have to change the law. So then the victim can realize where they can find a different attorney who tells them you were putting in 2020 in Tennessee. It's voided, unfortunately, because of this 2019 law. And then Alabama, I'm from a big Roll Tide family, my grandpa didn't miss a game his entire life. and, That came about because I have a ton of cousins and Walker County, my mom's side of the family. and, They were following on Facebook like this whole trailer Journey. And then out of the blue, I get a text from a representative and that area, it's like your cousin told me about what you're doing. I would love the honor of bringing this to Alabama. And Speaker 2 that's awesome. Speaker 1 okay, there aren't good people in the world and then two weeks later he texted me and he's like I'm a senator now and I'm like what's going on in Alabama? There's like a special election or something. So, that's Senator Matt Woods. Now, he's standing with survivors in, Alabama. He just pre-filed trades law and our house rep is David Faulkner who's carrying Trace law and our camp safety Bill and honor of Sarah Marsh. One of the girls who died in Camp Mystic, she was From Birmingham. Speaker 2 Nice Speaker 1 and Yeah, in Oklahoma. We're talking to the speaker's, top Council representative Kennedy, and Then Ted Cruz's team at the federal level. Schmitz. Office is willing to be helpful because Canada senator's state. And then, I got to know. Senator Ashley Moody, when she was a Attorney General of Florida, and we were on a panel together, this event for the policy Circle. talking about safeguarding Innocents, and When she was a g of Florida, she had an over 90% success rate in Prosecuting traffic in cases. Also a mom. Like young. So she was appointed Marco Rubio. See. So she's Senator Ashley Moody now Um, and so I'm keeping her team of just being with what we're trying to do, because she cares about this stuff, and then Senator Katie Britt's office. They've been supportive and we'll have the Alabama tie in after this session. Speaker 2 Did you say Steve Toth helped you when he was in Congress? Speaker 1 So yeah, he's a Texas State Rep running for congress and He's running for Crenshaw seat actually and I was crunch all helping you. Speaker 2 You helped out. Speaker 1 Not know, Speaker 2 did you reach out to him? Know, you didn't Speaker 1 know? Speaker 2 He probably should. Speaker 1 Oh, I'll get right on that. Butthole, he's a good guy because he stood with roughly on the house floor when the house was going to vote on treys law. and, I couldn't be there in Austin for some reason. So I was watching it like on on my laptop. And you can see like, right there next to Jeff Lee just Steve Toth. And he has this look of fear on his face. as Jeff's doing the bill outlay, which is basically like saying, I'll send you the clip. I mean it's super powerful and then Mitch little had some powerful comments too but in certain situations when a Bill's presented and people are passionate about it. If even if it's not their bill, they'll go up there and stand with the bill sponsor who's presenting it and taught was like right there and the camera. Speaker 2 I would bet Crenshaw would bend over fucking backwards to help you right now because from what I've heard he could really use a win And he can't help you if he doesn't know about it. Speaker 1 Does he watch your show? Speaker 2 I don't know. I've heard he does. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, give them a visit. Speaker 2 I'll put you in touch with his attorneys, Speaker 1 thanks. Unsafe Havens: The Unregulated American Camp Industry I mean. I think this is a slam dunk for anyone who wants to do something for kids right now, but because the Epstein files aren't going anywhere at the moment. So, Speaker 2 not a whole lot of people in government wanted to help Speaker 1 a lot of momentum on that. Speaker 2 A lot of people want to help pedophiles not very many, people want to help kids victims Speaker 1 but I haven't crossed one. Elected official. Who thinks kids should be silent contractually after surviving sexual assault or trafficing. Pretty hard thing to be against. That's, there's a lot more behind the scenes on that Texas bill. If you want to talk about it but we landed the plane and victims have their voices back. And the most poignant memory in this work from last year was when I got to tell that student of Angela Paxton Senator Paxton's former student September 1st. Two words. Be free. Speaker 2 I love that, Speaker 1 he's free. Speaker 2 Elizabeth, what does? What do you have to accomplish to move on with your life? Speaker 1 I just think when you lose someone under these circumstances and crimes are involved, you have to understand the issue. First of all, Figure out how to. Prevent it from happening to others because I hold this information now. My brother's not alive to talk about it. So I have to talk about it, and Now, I work with a lot of other survivors who are ready and willing to talk about it. And as long as they need me, I'm here. And I don't know what that looks like. I've thought about I told you my face was shattered like Deconstructed, it, reconstructed like I've thought about going to Seminary, I've thought about going to law school. and then I realized, you know, and helping pass these four laws and when you are Probably best served. Best service to others if I keep advocating with them for them. Sometimes they need a voice, sometimes, they just need a mic. You know, trade doesn't have a voice right now since my brother died. I've been trying to be as voice. then there are other survivors who have just been silent and suffering in the shadows and having them testify at a hearing for a lot of them is so healing. So these hearings are healing for them. Sometimes. I'm just the first person they've ever disclosed their abuse to and I just hold. That is sacred. Like it's Holy Ground when a Survivor discloses the abuse to Speaker 2 you. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, this hair is full of dry shampoo and secrets. Because that I will not. Someone trust me with that. I consider it sacred and holy and then sometimes they need help. They need They might need counseling. They might need rehab. They might just need someone to hold their story with them. And they might need to connect with other survivors. and now there's this whole community of kenneka survivors and other survivors of Camp abuse and negligence, Who are finding healing and community. So, I haven't gotten that far to. To ask myself. Like what do I need to move on? Because I don't think you ever move on from Wallace. I think you move forward. And I am of the strong opinion that as Christians were not supposed to just sit here and wait on heaven to happen. We are called to bring Heaven to Earth. And that's what I'll spend the rest of my life doing is trying to bring more of Heaven to Earth more truth, more piece. Healing transparency. Speaker 2 You did a break. All right, let's take a break. My days, don't slow down between work, the gym and time with the kids. I need eyewear, they can keep up with everything I've got going on and that's why trust Roca. I've tried plenty of Shades before but these stand out their built for performance without sacrificing style, I put them through it, all on the Range out on the water and off-road, they don't quit, their lightweight stay locked in place and are tough enough to handle whatever I throw at them and the best part. They don't just perform. They look incredible Sleek modern and design for people who have expect more from their eyewear. No fluff, no gimmicks. Just premium frames that deliver every single time. And that's why Roca is what I grab when I'm heading out the door. Born in Austin, Texas. 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Part, patreon members can ask our guests questions. Directly, your insights can help shape the show. Join us on patreon, now, support the mission and become part of the genre and show story. All right, Elizabeth we're back from the break but hey on the brake you know we're having a little Chad. I didn't know you like Firearms. Speaker 1 Yeah, I shout out to the Texas gun experience. I was just shooting out there. Speaker 2 The Texas guy can only imagine what goes on in the Texas gun experience. But anyways, maybe the next time you go to the Texas gun experience, you can take this way Speaker 1 for real, Oh my gosh. Thank you. Speaker 2 You don't even know what it is. Red Dot. Speaker 1 I open it like Christmas morning. Thank you. Hell yeah, there Speaker 2 you go. so, I mean, After after interviewing you for whatever we've got now two and a half hours. Three hours maybe. You got a lot of enemies so you're gonna need a something to protect yourself. Speaker 1 So awesome. Speaker 2 Yes. So that's the Sig p365 Legion. With the Red Dot that you were going on about and that is their lady. You want to hold it up? Yeah, I was gonna say magazines, not in it magazines, not in it. It's safe. Holds 17 rounds. Plus one in the pipes. So 18 rounds. It's got the Red Dot. It's all metal. Speaker 1 Obsessed, thank you. Speaker 2 That is the Legitimately. I'm not just saying that you're not going to get a better everyday carry in the sub pump compact category than that. Speaker 1 I'm so excited. My husband's also going to be so thrilled. Speaker 2 He'll probably be jealous. Speaker 1 It'll be very jealous. Speaker 2 You're rocking a Hellcat now. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 that Speaker 1 I like that because it you don't have to deal with the safety. It's like in the trigger, but Speaker 2 you'll like that better I Speaker 1 already do. I like how it fits my tiny hands? Speaker 2 We'll pop a couple rounds off at the end. Speaker 1 I'm perfect Speaker 2 for you head back. Speaker 1 We deserve that this is a hard topic. Speaker 2 Yeah, Speaker 1 thank you. Speaker 2 You're welcome. Speaker 1 That's amazing. Thank you. Speaker 2 You're welcome. Speaker 1 Yeah, we're gonna piss off a lot of pedophiles. Speaker 2 We're all gonna piss off. A lot of people care. Speaker 1 One in the same. Speaker 2 Yeah, good good. So what are what are we what are we dive in into next? Speaker 1 Well, Speaker 2 What up? A chart on the break? Speaker 1 Oh yeah. Well that was just chit-chat but I did want to show. Yeah. So this was just like siding. But I think the best visual to map out the whole. Can I cook situation I shared? Is this network map. So my team of peas, you know, whenever we're digging into something, we want to put it in a format that law enforcement, can easily, read and understand, but this is how big the web is. It's like every entity that Joe Weider can a cog Ministries. Has a hand in, you can see the little handcuff icon and we have a separate page that outlines the exact charges for those handcuffs, but Speaker 2 we'll push out on screen. Yeah, Speaker 1 it's just it's not normal. So That's yeah. That's Speaker 2 each one of these is a different business. Or LLC or what? What exactly Speaker 1 fees are Ministries or churches, he's on board, like things, he's affiliated with, and you can't find one that doesn't have some sort Speaker 2 of it's not connected to the handcuffs Speaker 1 sexual exploitation of children Speaker 2 and Speaker 1 so, hold predators. Accountable. The first time you see a flag? You attract. Bad actors to your Enterprise's and not some mess. And I think with Joe White, I don't know what his deal is, but I assume It's a lot darker than just a culture of complacency. But in general, and what I wanted to talk to you about before we go shoot, this culture of complacency is a camp industry problem. It's industry wide. so, You know, I was doing this. Can I cook stuff since 2021? Trying to understand what happened to my brother connecting with all these victims. And then I started looking at okay I guess. Can I cook an outlier or is this the norm? And I started getting tips from all over the country, including other camps, many in Texas who have victims under India's. So, we're starts getting out, especially as I started testifying in State legislatures, you know, when you're testifying out of hearing that's public and anyone can watch it and so I started reaching more of the masses that way and then I get Outreach from random people about camps or we're organized crime within churches and Colts. Oftentimes, with IRS Church status. We've got to stop giving Church status to Colts. And that's an IRS issue. On my list of things to discuss with the religion business, guys. You've had on Speaker 2 Nathan Speaker 1 yeah, Nathan's doing really good work in the Name of Christ to get rid of this corruption in the church. And I'm actually, I'm going to be shooting season 2 with them in a few days. We're going to start that Speaker 2 on. Speaker 1 Yeah. They also have zero chill about child abuse in the name of Jesus. So That's cool. I always loved that. But so we figured out that the camp industry. Now, in the US, it's a, it's an American tradition. I don't know if it was where you grew up, but in my circles, like everyone went to summer camp. And some of them are just a couple weeks. Some of them are a month long. And it's a 70 billion dollar industry. About 26 million. People are involved in summer camps every year in the US. And I think there's so many positives to that, right? It's like get your kids off their devices and have them meet new friends from other places and get out in nature. Like all of that is good stuff, right? But for so long parents have not asked questions and that's why I wanted to talk about this because you started this conversation about what a parents need to know. And this is so important for parents to know that the camp industry is completely under regulated in some states completely unregulated. So, 15 states don't even require criminal background checks on summer camp stuff. Okay, that's not even how you capture the bad guys. That's just a baseline right to make sure you're not hiring people with a record. Hello. Speaker 2 Do I like how That's common sense. Can you run a business around children and not run up background? Check? Speaker 1 Yeah. So what I found is unless camps are regulated and there's laws that force that they don't, because they are saving us and Speaker 2 that's what I always just. So they are looking for the lowest common denominator to watch your kids. Correct person that will take the least of mountain pavement. They don't give a fuk Speaker 1 know, it's just it's just a body. Yeah. And a lot of these camps I mentioned earlier are for profit camps and so they see kids as a commodity, right? They want to recruit as many campers as possible and keep costs as low as possible, and that's their family business. so, Speaker 2 it doesn't anybody like The advertised the quality of the counselors that they hire or any of that shit. I mean, Speaker 1 somebody's one would think that they would want to be you know, hold a high standard and be an example of proper hiring practices and, you know, going above and beyond what the state would require with a licensure process but that is Just objectively not the case. So 15 states don't require even Baseline measures like a criminal background. Check And nine states, don't require day camps to be licensed. Eight states, don't require residential camps to be licensed. and in a lot of States even where they are required to be licensed, if your faith-based, your exempt from that licensure process, And so that makes me unhappy. As a Christian, that faith based is held to a lesser standard. It's like Senate Christians be operating with a higher at the gold standard and more, excellent. But a lot of these Christian Missouri. If you're a faith based Camp, you're exempt from the licensure process, and that was true in Texas. And until this year, 2025 Speaker 2 criminals, Speaker 1 oh yeah, it's a Speaker 2 because because there's no Speaker 1 it is a Speaker 1 Oh man, yeah exactly. Now this isn't true of every camp but parents need to be aware of the regulatory environment with summer camps so they can ask the right questions and decide if they want their children to be stewarded by these people that are oftentimes running for profit businesses or if it's a faith-based camp. They're held to no standard in the name of freedom of religion, which I'm all about but when it comes to kids safety first. The Heaven's 27: Preventable Deaths at Camp Mystic So Speaker 2 do you send your kids to a camp Speaker 1 know, Speaker 2 I didn't think. I mean, I would Speaker 1 After what my family's been through. And after what I've researched, again, I've had to Erin Brockovich. All of this, like no one's doing this work. Speaker 2 Are there any good camps? Speaker 1 Of Speaker 2 course, can you name any? Out. If you heard of that one, Speaker 1 which Speaker 2 one Outward Bound? I think it's Outward Bound Homeward Bound. Speaker 1 My husband did not. So you have like summer camps and then you have programs like that. That are a little bit different than a traditional summer camp. And then you have the troubled teen industry programs, and that's a residential program for a team that like, maybe a very conservative parent catches, their kid Smoking marijuana and they freak on like you you're troubled teen. You have to go to this program. They get kidnapped in the middle of the night show up at this troubled teen program, behavioral program. This is Paris. Hilton's story. I don't know if you've heard about any of this, she got the stop institutional, child, sexual abuse Act passed by Congress, because of her experience Speaker 2 Hilton Speaker 1 Paris Hilton. Mm-hmm. And then there's a nonprofit called unsilenced and they have a database of troubled teen programs that have allegations against them. So, Speaker 2 did you just say Paris Hilton got something passed about what I'm what I Speaker 1 know, Paris Hilton. Stop institutional, child, sexual abuse act and she and other survivors of the troubled teen industry, rallied together to get Congress to approve this act and sexually abused. She was abused at a troubled teen program in Utah. Yeah, she's really impressive really smart but then all of these other survivors have all so coalesced around this and Paris was willing to put her name on it and they got it passed. Speaker 2 Wow. Speaker 1 And so you have the troubled teen programs. There's actually a Netflix show called the program about this as well. The non-profit unsilenced is the one that has the database of these residential programs, for troubled, teens. So, like that Agape behavioral boarding school I mentioned earlier, that moved from Washington State to Missouri to be less regulated. There they would be in that database. There's active litigation against one of those programs called shelter wood. That was actually a Joe White Affiliated troubled teen program. So yeah, the summer camp industry, the troubled teen thing. A lot of times kids will go to summer camp, their troubled. And so then Joe White or someone at the might recommend they go to a behavioral school or behavioral program and what has been uncovered recently. And thanks to people like Paris, Hilton willing to put her name on it. It's become there's been more awareness around that with your traditional American summer camp. Like these sleep way camps. Huge industry in the Hill, Country, and Texas. And being from Dallas. I had a lot of friends that went to Camp Longhorn Camp Mystic a time to kanakuk, of course, too. But these are also 100 year old camps in the Hill Country and they're incurred County and that's like, the County's industry is a lot of it revolves around these camps because it brings in tourism. So, my life changed again on July 4th of 2025. when I was at the beach with my family, and my sorority sisters group, text started blowing up and it was like a flash flooding and the Hill Country and like so I'm I'm up in the Northeast I'm like, why are you giving me weather update? And then that that's related into Lila is missing one of my sorority sisters daughters. And then I turn on the news. I mean we're all getting ready for the Fourth of July parade, and then I keep getting texts. There's a text. I got a cabin floating down the river with looked like 50 kids in it. yeah, and and then it quickly as gladed from, Lila is missing too Lila's, dead. And all these girls are missing. And so, Like I'm with my three kids and my family, we like are sitting at the Fourth of July parade as all of this is like coming through on my phone and I'm like, oh no, I need to reach out to a Navy, SEAL friend. I know that's based in Austin, see if they're on it. Like what is going on? and, You know, fast forward 27 girls died. I can't miss it. during the flash floods in the Hill, Country on July 4th and it was completely Preventable. So then I know this because I'm Camp negligence girl at this point from everything I've uncovered about, can I cook in the camp industry? The American campus Association has been around for 115 years. And they're the main accreditation entity for the industry. There are also some smaller Camp organizations that Lobby for mostly exemptions and waivers not child protection. So, my head immediately goes to And it's horrible to say this but I just know what I know and like these girls aren't missing their dead. And it's not, it's the camps. Fault. And it's negligence. Like just, you know, the pattern is there. I've also, I've been in touch with a dad from California. His daughter drowned at a day camp because the American Red Cross was fraudulently. Accrediting lifeguards that came out in a Washington Post article. There's just at every turn, the camp industry has had failures and they've had 115 years. To do better. But here we are with a 19 suicide affiliated with the Canuck situation. So Trey is not the only one that died by Suicide. and then you have these 27 8 year old girls eight to 10 year old girls, Who died because the camp didn't have an evacuation plan. In fact, their evacuation plan was to shelter in place. That's not an evacuation plan. What are you trained on in? What were you trying like when there's flash flooding? What do you do? Get to Higher Speaker 2 Ground, High Ground. Speaker 1 Get to Higher Ground. Not rocket science. They left the eight year old babies. And the flood and they got swept away. Between 1 and 7. Mm. on the morning of July, 4th, Three of them were my friends Stars. Speaker 2 oh, Speaker 1 Man, I wear these bracelets in their honor. They're now known as the heavens 27. and, One of them is specially. hit close to home, because My sorority sister Caitlin like we lived together and the capitals we studied abroad in London during college. and she Has three girls and Lila was the oldest and I couldn't stay at the beach while this was happening, right. So our whole family, we leave, we come back to Dallas. We go to the service to funerals memorial service and I go hugging my friend and I'm like, this wasn't your full. She went to Mystic too, so she knew she was gonna blame myself. and I was like, These camps. I I'm here, if you ever want to talk about, That's whenever you're ready. and, It's like I'm not going to be the friend that brings you a lasagna or like a little note with flowers. But if you want to talk about Camp reform and I'm here for it and she goes, oh, I know exactly what I'm calling you for. And I'm like I'm pissed. She's like, I'm so pissed. Pissed. I was like, yeah. I'm here, then I went and talked to the dad. And he gave me the biggest hug and he was like, I'm sorry, I'm like why are you saying you're sorry to me your daughter's memorial service. it's like I know idea what you've been going through the last five years, like with Trey and like These camps, man. I'm like, yeah. like, I'm here when you're ready to tackle, these issues He's like, I'm gonna have to take action or I won't survive this. I've lost a brother and now was hard enough. I can't imagine losing. A child. Especially when they just needed to walk. 100 feet, they'd be alive. But the camp leadership pulled them to stay in place. Speaker 2 Gosh man. Speaker 1 And they're still one camper missing. And her name is seals Stewart. she's from Austin, and They haven't found her. They are still looking for seal. The, the search is very active and ongoing and There were some Navy Seals early on who jumped in to help search and they were wearing these bracelets seals for seal. and, The First Responders were amazing, people like that. Who just Wanted to help showed up started diving recovering bodies. Now, the search is under the purview of Captain Miller, former Green Beret, who's with the Texas Rangers now and he was also a combat veteran, he's from there, he knows that River inside and out. You couldn't have someone better on paper to be searching for seal and there's another man that still missing. but, Blake and Caitlin Lyles parents. They called me a few weeks later after the service. And they were like, we're ready. I thought it would be waiting on the road. like that, they would just Hunker down grieve. Raise their other two daughters? and, They were ready to fight. So it took a call with them and they like how did you pass Trey's law? How do we go about reforming the camp industry? And this was in the summer. So, you know, I mentioned, Texas only meets every other year their legislature so there are things called a special session If something doesn't get resolved, during the legislative session, the regular lettuce, legislative session, the governor can call special session. And at this point when I'm talking to my friends, there is a special session happening but the Democrats have walked out over redistricting. So like nothing's happening in Austin. and, Because that's stalled out there was the likelihood that the governor was going to call a second special session. and, I got in touch with my lobbying team who helped me past Trace law. And one of them was I mean everyone's traveling in the summer, right? So as I trying to run down this team and one was in London, one was in Italy. And then there was someone available in Austin and he actually knew Lila's, dad, Blake and Got in touch with him. Then Karen Rove. Who's married to Karl Rove? She's a lobbyist in Austin. And then another victim, their daughter was a counselor that went down with those girls. Speaker 2 Oh, Speaker 1 Man. There are two counselors that we clothing Catherine. We called Heroes because they could have left and saved themselves but they went down with those girls. Speaker 2 And Speaker 1 they were both going to UT in the fall. One was going to be pre-med, one was going to be a special education teacher. And they stayed with those girls told the end and they followed orders. Which were staying in place. And it killed him all. and, and anyways, so Chloe's Chloe being one of the counselors and Blake my friend's husband Lila's dad. After I told him like here's some of the possibilities, we rallied the truths. Like the lobbyists wheel when our group There's one girl in Birmingham who died in the flood, Sarah March, that's why we're bringing Camp. Safety bills to Alabama. Next along with I called my sponsor for Trace law, representative. David Faulkner in Alabama, represent Sarah, Marshall's district, and he's going to carry this Camp. Safe to you perform legislation for us and I'll be Emma. um, I also have one of my friends in Missouri who has been house, Judiciary chair during this whole journey for me, with Trace law and statute of limitations reform in Missouri, she's going to sponsor Camp safety reform in Missouri and Because this just touched everyone at the deepest level. From Grief to Action: Parents Demand Camp Safety Reform Anyone who's a parent, can't fathom losing a child on period, but under these circumstances when it was so preventable. Like if that cabin had had a ladder to get on the roof, they'd be alive. If there had been any redundancy in the internet connection, they could be. There's no communication. There were three adults trying to rescue hundreds of girls. And that flash flood and they refused to evacuate them. Even after one 15. Mm was like live threatening flash flood. A counselor was able to call 911 like 3:30 ish. The camp in till 7:30 and said we're missing between 20 and 40 girls. Horrible. So in Texas this was all over the news but I think it was all over the news everywhere. Did you hear about this hill country flood? yeah, so like everybody heard about this and these parents in their acute raw grief It came to the consensus that they don't want this to happen to anyone else, any other family? No, other family should have to go through this, we don't want any other children. We don't want children going to Camp next summer without some big changes. So, What ended up happening is? The second special session got called these families. Myself are lobbying team. We went down to Austin. we met with the big three, the lieutenant governor, the speaker of the house and the governor they held photos of their daughters and talked about them and what bright lights they were and what kind of girls they were and you know, still in shock. I mean have your you probably have with your background but seen someone trimmer from trauma. It's just like so like Some moms just like primary. with the trauma and the shock and grief of their daughter's, not Not being with them anymore. Those girls survivors of that flash flood and the whole country traumatized left in Blackhawks, Here, like we sent our daughter to camp and they left and we didn't send him to a war zone. And so much trauma. And that was the only camp that lost life. Speaker 2 That's the only Camp. Speaker 1 The others had evacuation plans or got lucky. So, all these lawsuits have dropped now. claiming negligence gross, negligence wrongful, death and And now I I wish I want alone in this. I mean, I felt alone in this fight, not just the can I cook fight, but realizing this goes well beyond. Cannot cook like camps in general. Are so unregulated and unsafe and they don't prioritize, they prioritize low insurance premiums profits. You know, getting their property taxes down. It's just like all the things you would think of to run a normal business, but this is kits and their lives. So, you need to go step further and protecting people's most precious their children, right? And in the case of Mystic, None of that happened. These 27 babies died, the heavens 27 and those parents showed up and testified and Passed the heavens 27 camps, safety act and the youth camper Act. So that starting next summer, not waiting on the 2027 legislative cycle which means that wouldn't be implemented till 2020. 8, so it had to happen during that special for 2026 to be getting any different than this year. So now in Texas. It is not up to human error anymore or discretion you evacuate no more sleeping babies in a floodway or floodplain. You have walkie talkies, you have things. So you can communicate among the cabinets in a situation like that. And what we've learned Is Not only was Camp, mystic not prepared for a flood even though it's called flash flood alley. And it's flooded multiple times before. To the point where I've had alumni. Tell me that they remember when it flooded and the staff would bring them breakfast in a kayak. Like, they knew they know this floods. but yeah, they They lost these 27 campers because they refused to evacuate them Chloe and Catherine went by the documented orders. Stay in place, we'll come get you. and, But now the camps in Texas are required to be licensed. No more waivers, no more exemptions. So that's huge because only 300 something camps were previously licensed and there's over 1,000 camps in Texas. They're required now to have a database on the website for the State of Texas about which camps have been licensed and just more transparency, right? So parents can make their own decisions about where they want to send their kids. And, you know, a whole bunch of other stuff, too, that makes can't safer for kids, immediately, and text us. That'll go into a. That's an effect Speaker 2 and nice work, Speaker 1 very proud of these families who I know consider, Dear friends, but I wish I were, you know, I'm not alone in this fight anymore but I wish I were. I wish it didn't have to be this way. There's an army of parents who were determined for their daughters to be remembered for their legacies to matter, not just their lives, but in their loss, how do we prevent that? And I'm here for it. I'd like to read their names, if that's okay. Speaker 2 Absolutely. Speaker 1 Because the camp hasn't acknowledged their names in any Communications. Speaker 2 Are you serious? Speaker 1 And they've announced their reopening and then one camper still missing. Maybe recover all the bodies of your dead campers from last season before you reopen summer 2026. Speaker 2 Geez, Speaker 1 it's actually one of the girl's birthdays today. and, I always hated it when people would say sorry for your loss because with Trey, it's like My loss. It's the loss to the world, right? And that's why I feel with these girls, too. It's not just their families personal loss. This is like I mentioned future special ed teacher. Studying to be a doctor. Some of them went to be veterinarians when they grew up or artists. This is what we've lost. Mary, Grace Baker. Margaret fellows. Lila Bonheur. Chloe Childress. Molly DeWitt. Lucy Dillon. Catherine Paraiso. Ellen. Hadley Hannah. Virginia Halas. Janie Hunt. Mary Kate Jacoby. Lani Landry. Hannah Lawrence. Rebecca. Lawrence Twins. Kelly and Lytle, Sarah Marsh Lenny. McCown Who would be turning nine today? Blakely McCrory. When nailer? Eloise Lulu. Peck Abby Pohl. Margaret Sheedy. Bernice Maestra. Mary Stevens. Seal Stewart. And Greta Toronto. Those are the heavens 27. and, They should still be here. Their desks were completely preventable. so, if that's not a wake up call, To parents to the camp industry that we need to do better. I don't know what else it's going to take. We launched What's called the campaign for camps safety? and, This is now under the no more victims Alliance. So, No, it's all Camp negligent. So right Trays law. Can't put victims under ndas. I mean, that camp I mentioned, I had the cabin floating down the river. They've had a huge child, sexual abuse problem, Camp Stewart. The brothers can't miss all girls Camp Stewart's, a boy's camp. They got a call from a victim's mom because they wanted to put her son under an NDA. I have a whole database of these camps that have child sexual abuse problems. And I never thought, oh, as a mom I should also ask, do you sleep eight year olds in a floodway? And so I started before you go to camp.com. And it's for parents to know how to vet these organizations. And it's started out as just questions to ask to understand. Do they have appropriate, child sexual abuse prevention measures in place. If they respond, we use the can. I cook Child Protection, Plan, big red flag. We are going to add different categories to this. Before you go to camp.com. To include these physical safety measures because can't miss dick wasn't prepared for an active shooter. I mean someone could have creeped up on those girls in a canoe on the river. No plans for that. Kind of stuff either. But you know, what's been heartbreaking is for these parents to realize that they just assumed that the same safeguarding measures in place at schools or your local YMCA. I mean, I'm looking around this room, you know there's exit signs. There's fire sprinklers, a lot of schools have carbon monoxide detectors like a camps? Not. I mean, when we were drafting these bills, Speaker 2 the blast film, on every window, we all carry. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Gun here. We don't fuck around with this stuff. Speaker 1 Yeah. People that showed up for those girls were the Camp owner. He also died. And first everyone was like, he's a hero. He died with those girls. Like he died in a ship. He built but had holes in it. But there is that guy, his son and the night Watchman. They're the only three adults around when these girls needed to be evacuated. And they waited too late. And there's a, there's a verse in Ezekiel, that one of the dads read at the state senate here in. It's really powerful. Speaker 2 Places opening up again already and they Speaker 1 are there. Yeah, on the body's correct. Mhm. Speaker 2 Who owns it? Speaker 1 It's a for-profit family business owned by the Eastlands. Speaker 2 The Eastlands. Speaker 1 Dick Eastland who passed away in the flood and his wife Tweety. Tweety and dick. Tweet. Yeah, Tweety and dick. And then their kids help run it with them. So this is what Ezekiel 33:6 says, but if the Watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes someone's life that person's life will be taken because of their sin. But I will hold the Watchmen accountable for their blood And I think that is all of our charge as the responsible adults in the room to be the Watchmen and to protect kids, whether that's guarding their innocence from sexual abuse and predators or their physical safety. You evacuate children go to Higher Ground when there is a life, threatening flash flood warning. And you know how that river floods? Speaker 2 Damn man. It's just Speaker 1 So the campaign for camps safety is now focused on Research, we're doing a national mapping exercise of what states have the worst lack of Regulation versus like what's a model state? For example. So research and then advocacy like passing the laws I mentioned and then a safe summer fund. So to your question, like, are there? Good camps? Yes. Like, there's some camps that do a mate, like, think about camps for disabled children. Like It's an opportunity for them to find people, they relate with. And oftentimes the parents come with the kids to those camps. But there are some church camps like they might Speaker 2 should all camps are supposed to be good and I mean you say that like, oh yeah, we'll just spend my kid was special news there. Do I or is there some sick? Fuck there. That's got a fetish for special needs kids. Speaker 1 Well yeah and so one of my good friends Catherine Woolf, she runs a camp in Alabama called hope heals. Her first book was hope heals. She suffered a massive stroke and half of her face is pure life. She's in a wheelchair and for her 40th birthday, I gave her 40,000 dollars per personally to put a child sexual abuse prevention plan in place because some of those kids are non-verbal. You I mean how are you going to know? and, She was so grateful and they'd already done sent her husband's in a train like they'd already done a lot too. Keep Kids Safe at that camp, knowing their extra vulnerable. That population. But the parents go with the kids to that camp, which is neat too because parents who are in a position of raising a child with special needs, they have camaraderie, right? And encouragement in that community. And so really grateful for Catherine. Wolfe and what she? I think, what they've done at Hope heals Camp, bringing in some Consultants, some real subject matter experts. To make sure that these kids are safe. They are, that's so important. She's all the friend. I met her a month after trade. I and, She was in her wheelchair. I'd never heard of her mother before and was with a mutual friend, something in South Carolina and she grabbed my hands and She was like, what are you going through? And I was like, I just lost my brother to Suicide a month ago. And she her eye. That works. She like one tear came down her. I And she was like, I just want you to know. That there are Treasures in the darkness. Isaiah tells us that there are Treasures in the Darkness. I didn't really know what she meant by that, not movement. but, as I've been through this grief Journey, and met so many other grieving people I understand it now, like I would not be connected to a lot of these people. I consider now. So my closest friends, if we hadn't both, endured the darkness, like there are Treasures in the Darkness, you know, would we all trade it to and their case how their daughter's back from me to have my brother back? Of course, but that's why we read the serenity prayer because you know, it talks about being reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy in the next. Like it's not all hunky dory here on Earth. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And we can find those Treasures in the darkness though. Those glimmers of hope those signs. and I brought this book to share because I wanted the families. I Speaker 2 just want to say something real quick, you know, when we're talking about these camps and like This isn't just camps. this is, Schools stadiums malls venues. Every churches, everything I mean we've got we have an active shooter Pro program in active shooter problem in this country every fucking school that gets hit. Oh shit! We didn't think it was going to happen. We didn't want to put the fucking blast film on the windows. We didn't want to put in a security system. We didn't want to pay for a fucking security guard. We did not even want to get our lazy asses up and lock the fucking door. How many fucking kids are dead? from active Shooters, because Nobody, it's not gonna happen to us. Happened right here, Covenant. Speaker 1 Well, Speaker 2 we yanked her kids out of school. I mean, he's just it's just, it's like, man. What the fuck is it going to take for you motherfukers to take this shit seriously, put the blast film on the Windows, lock the fucking doors, get a security guard. Put a fucking drone up over the fucking school. When Charlie Kirk is fucking talking Like what the fuck, man? Speaker 1 Common Sense. Speaker 2 What the fuck? Have the kids go up the hill when the fucking flood comes correct. In your like, what what is what the fuck is happening, man. Speaker 1 So it's Speaker 2 this country and his perishing fast. Speaker 1 the the Covenant shooting was personal to me too because the senior pastor of that church his daughter Halle died in that shooting and He, he married my husband and me, he led my husband to Christ in college Speaker 2 Arnie. Went to church, sir. Speaker 1 Well, you helped on the backside, right? You like secured the Yeah, thank you. Speaker 2 I did. Whoa, I didn't do much. I went there, and I did a free security assessment after it happened. That was that was it? Speaker 1 And it's the after it happened. That's so devastating. So, how did you know circling back to what we talked about earlier? It's like how do we go Upstream to prevention. And value prevention and put resources towards prevention. The legislative process is so reactive. Speaker 2 You do what you're doing. Or you homeschool your fucking kid and take charge. Speaker 1 That's Speaker 2 what you do. So yank, your kids out of the system because the fucking system doesn't work. Speaker 1 In Texas, this last year, another big win for kids is that representative Mitch little who I mentioned earlier. Helped us with the drafting on Trace law. He passed a bill that removed sovereign immunity from public schools. But because that's a thing where schools cannot be Public Schools cannot be sued for child sexual abuse. Speaker 2 What correct? What? Speaker 1 So that just changed in Texas and it needs to be changed in every state. I can only tackle so much at once and it started, you Speaker 2 say that. Again, if your kid is sexually molested in a public school, you have no recourse to fucking sue. Speaker 1 You can let Speaker 2 that shit sink in. Speaker 1 You can see the perpetrator but not the school. until now in Texas you can see you can hold accountable everyone that was involved including the institution Speaker 2 Is this involved with the Texas gun experience? Speaker 1 This week guy named Chan Chandler. Say sweet. Speaker 2 Sorry I gotta bring some humor into this. Speaker 1 You and me both. Um but yeah, I was shooting and he was like, okay you've done this before? He's like what do you do? And I was like, oh I hot pedophiles. Not with guns with the law. He's like what? Changing laws is how we get ahead of this. Speaker 2 Yeah, and Speaker 1 You know, the heavens 27, the camp safety acts that have been passed in Texas. We're gonna have a ripple effect of that across the country but I want to go back to what you said about. This isn't just camps. This is youth serving organizations. All of them. and, If I could tell the audience or, you know, you're not asking, but I'm going to just say three things that could change overnight and make a huge difference. It would be getting rid of NDS that we've just got the statute of limitations, so that victims have more time to sue on their own terms and in their own time. So the so that justice system doesn't do more harm on top of the harm that's already occurred. and then, Insurance companies. Requiring Subject matter expert base, like best practices and child sexual abuse, prevention, or child, safeguarding in general, all hazard. Before they ensure that organization because these organizations aren't going to run without insurance. And so that is a real root issue here, is the insurance companies. Stop fighting me. Insurance lobbyists. Get on the side of good. And let's prevent these nuclear settlements. You're so afraid of happening. If an organization that you ensure get hit with lawsuit, prevent the lawsuit from ever being necessary. Insurance could pull that lever overnight. It would change the game. So, rocket science. And then parents consumer pressure would be another one I got actually. So the reason can still in business, besides all of the legality I've gone over just the lack of law enforcement statue of limitations, His parents still in their kids there. The reason can't Mystics reopening. Parents will still send their kids there. That is so I mean I call them sheeple. Speaker 2 There's a lot of them. Speaker 1 Uh-huh. And there is the cult aspect to some of these camps too. Where it's like, oh well my grandma went there and my, you know, and so it becomes this kind of diagnostic Camp cult. and, Kids aren't safe again. It's been 115 years since the American campus Association, like started. They've had 115 years to get this right when they last updated their accreditation measures, and I think it was like 2019. It didn't include anything about child, sexual abuse, prevention, So either they're complicit in the problem, and how have an issue themselves? Or they're so naive that they don't know this problem exists, how do you live in this world? And not know this problem. It says Speaker 2 everybody knows his problem exists. Speaker 1 I mean. Speaker 2 So, Speaker 1 if we know the problem exists, I always try to say Solutions oriented. So I'm going to stay Solutions oriented, we know the problem exists. So you have primary prevention, you have secondary prevention and you have tertiary prevention. I, you know, with a bunch of other colleagues and other foundations, we've started something called the safe childhood's initiative. to bring more private funding into the field of child sexual abuse prevention because people need to understand this as preventable we just hosted a conference in Dallas at our office campus for foundations and like, you know, private funders Even some practitioners subject, matter experts. To a symposium to talk about prevention. One of the just to give a couple examples that hopefully provide some glimmers of Hope here. There's a doctor from Sweden. he came and talked about his, it's a injected medication. For pedophiles. Speaker 2 Oh, what Speaker 1 an injected medication for pedophiles that takes away their urge to act upon their desires. And he's tested this. Speaker 2 There's a medication. that pedophiles can take, that will take their Their, Speaker 1 I call it like ozempic for pedophiles. Like you get this injection everyone 100 days. And you don't have the urge to act upon your desires because pedophiles come into just, you know, research shows for the most part, you know, you're a pedophile when you go through adolescence. So just like anyone comes into whatever sexual attraction, they're going to have its when you hit puberty and Adolescence And so there's a lot of juvenile offenders. I mean, a lot of child sexual abuse is peer on peer, so not just about Creepy at all. First of all, they usually don't come off as creepy. I mean they're certainly is that but it's usually someone the kid knows loves and trusts it's not stranger danger like we were talking the 50s but someone can knows loves and trusts a lot of it is familiar which is sick. I suppose when you get into the traffic so not all. Child sexual abuse is trafficing, but I'll try thinking as child sexual abuse, right? When you get into the trafficking statistics, so much of it is familial within the family. But yeah, this injection for pedophiles, it does something in the brain that reduces the urge to act on those desires, on your sexual attraction to children. Speaker 2 Does it actually work on sexual attraction to children? Or is it just sex drive in general? Speaker 1 Yeah, so I asked that and it's It's such Drive, which is sexual attraction to children in a pedophile. Like, they don't have a sex drive. Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Speaker 1 That is their sex drive. Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay. And Speaker 1 it's criminal. And if you can, if you can intervene early enough, Then they don't act on their urges, so this trial started with 500 pedophiles and 5000. now, they're scaling it and in talks to bring it to the US and You know, my head went when I first heard this presentation? And Sweden, Her Majesty Queen Silvia, invited eight foundations to her Palace. December 2020. For we were one of eight foundations invited because we're one of eight foundations, the funds, this issue of child sexual abuse prevention at the southern figure level on above. All of us, only about 150 million in private funding goes first child, sexual abuse prevention Global on an annual basis. Speaker 2 Globally. Yeah. Speaker 1 So, how are we going to make a dent in this? with the lack of private funding because public dollars, follow private funding, For the most part. and so, what we do at the Phillips Foundation is we like to incubate Innovative or New Concepts, provide the proof of concept to then take it to the state. And say this works look, it'll actually save taxpayer dollars. If you Scale, this versus ignoring the issue. and, That's worked with a lot of our initiatives through our foundation. That's an approach. We take, we're not a traditional Foundation, but we've got summoned by the queen to the Palace in Stockholm. She had started the world childhood Foundation, 25 years ago, she was really ahead of her time. On just addressing child sexual abuse as a problem. And her daughter princess Madeline is about to because Queen Sylvia is now in her 80s. She's passing the torch to Princess model and He was really amazing. She was so nice. So chill. She just moved back to Stockholm from Florida with her kids and she's going to take this one for you know carry the legacy on so we all convened in Stockholm we heard from this doctor I mentioned we heard from a few other people that study pedophiles and have some promising interventions and Then we grew. the group from those eight foundations to like 15 foundations, To what we just hosted in Dallas. And there's another one, maybe 30. And now in Dallas it was like 50. And so we're trying to grow interest in the private funding because you know, as we were saying, everyone will tell you they care about this issue but we vote with our dollars, right? You know someone's priorities by where they're spending their time money time, treasured how it and they're just not a lot of money flowing into this issue. Anti-trafficking yes more so child sexual abuse prevention, not so much reacting to child, sexual abuse, you know, children Advocacy Center. Get a lot of funding even from the state and state of Texas gets something like 80 million in Appropriations to their children, advocacy centers, from the state. Prevention. However, not number, I mentioned under 150 million Speaker 2 Damn, man. Speaker 1 So, we need to take this issue from Millions to billions not that money alone can solve it, but it can fund these promising Innovations so that we make a dent in this issue. But it also requires a culture shift where parents are asking the right questions of their kids school of wherever they're playing sports. I, you know, I have a pi on retainer and, you know, not everyone can do that. But before my kids are coached by anyone, I run it background. Check sad to say, We've not proceeded with certain. People because they don't pass the criminal background check. but everyone else, in Dallas thinks this guy hung them in and, Speaker 2 You'd think this would just be common sense is days. You don't have to have a pi on retainer to get A background check. Speaker 1 Well, right, I mean we like to dig a Little Deeper Beyond about Crown check because sometimes, yeah, the, your typical criminal background check isn't going to do a sweep of their social media. And what are they posting? And what are the patterns, like one of the concepts that was presented, that Symposium is a database for great area perpetrators. So this is someone who may be Had red flag Behavior. But it didn't rise to criminal. So it's not going to show up on a background check, but there are conversations around these databases where someone is terminated due to Red Flag Behavior or breach of policy related to child sexual abuse. So like maybe they're in the girls locker room and shouldn't be. They're not gonna get arrested for that but they're gonna get terminated for violation of policy and I want to check that database. I want to check someone's name against that database because it goes Way Beyond just like a criminal background check. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 So, you know, those are the things we're working on and I want to leave your audience with some hope and also a call to action. There is hope but it takes action. It takes advocacy, it takes dollars. And we're putting together all through the safe childhoods initiative menu, if you will of investable opportunities that can help prevent child sexual abuse. Speaker 2 It also takes your Spud in the word around. Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaker 2 getting loud. About these things. Speaker 1 we have to talk about it Speaker 2 because, you know, nobody goes to Canada cook. And they're not on business, Speaker 1 that's what I mean. We vote with our dollars. And that's how you know, our family office in Foundation, we invest that way through I look at it as a lens, right? So It's not just a program area of the foundation where we are incubating promising Concepts but we are also applying this child safeguarding lens to anyone. We Grant to or anything we invest in. So we just invested in this technology that helps higher substitute teachers for public schools. And I'm like I I think that's a great investment but I want you to ask these additional questions about how are they screening right? How what are the what's the process for vetting? These substitute teachers. Speaker 2 How do these are these come to you? How do these entities or nonprofits or companies or whatever they are? They come to you, how do they find you? Speaker 1 Yeah, so because early on so I started running the Phillips Foundation when I was about 24. And so now, you know, it's been over a decade that we've put ourselves out there as interested in impacting using. So we everything we invest in, we look at the impact because I want to take a first, you know, harm approach. And strategy to our investments. Now, There's a spectrum of impact investing all the way to, you know, ETFs but down to venture philanthropy and there's different returns for each of those asset classes in different parts of the spectrum. But across that Spectrum, we're asking questions about, if you're a company or a concept that involves children, then we want to diligence you a different way than, you know, your run-of-the-mill real estate business. Let's say so We use this lens across our portfolio for profit and on the foundation and the foundation Grant making side. And so when we had this conversation with that investee, I was mentioning They were so receptive, they said, and on top of what you've asked, we're going to look into these three other things too. so like the more we talk about it and the more we Elevate this conversation to match the data, One, and five girls, one and seven boys will be child, will be the victims of child sexual abuse. So abused, before the age of 18. Speaker 2 I mean, all the 50% of the people that have been on the showman sexually abused as a child. It blew my fucking mind. Speaker 1 I think it's much higher. I think it's much higher than what data shows because of the delayed disclosure issue the shame specially with male survivors. Speaker 2 A lot of these, a lot of them. Tell me. Off-camera, but a lot of them tell me on camera. And Speaker 1 it's, it's Yeah, and I came forward about my own sexual assault. When I was in college at a senate committee Hearing in Texas, because I'm holding all of these stories with people sharing their worst trauma with me. I was like, I need to be brave, too. I need to. I'm gonna disclose what happened to me when I was 21. I wasn't a kid. but, It was an attempted rape. Joy and Sorrow: Finding Purpose After Unimaginable Loss I was able to escape the guy. And then I got dragged into a criminal court case around that. I didn't think anything would happen. There would be any justice but they the Dallas days, all the started testing the rape kit box Club. Have you heard about this issue? It's a national issue. Speaker 2 Oh yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, so they start testing the rape kit backlog. This guy's DNA ties to several victims. I didn't do a DNA kit because mine was an attempted rape. Not one that would require a rape kit. Yeah, I get a call from the senior detective for homeless side. Cold cases and sexual assault and just left filming a PBS segment in North Carolina for something and I get this call, Trey just died. I was the board chair of an antiquing organization like this could be one of 20 things, right? And they're like we detained Rafa Alvarez in Houston. And I was like, what? That I have not heard that name in a minute. But the rape kits had tied his DNA to all these assaults and they're like, will you be a witness like hell yeah, called the right girl. but in the and then I was a sign of victim Advocate, which was really ironic considering, I had just become a certified crime victim, Advocate myself, because I was so far into all these disclosures people telling me, What had happened in their childhoods and I want it. I don't know why. I just need a piece of paper to tell me that I was certified in something like so I just got not and then I'm assigned one and we went through the criminal process child got postponed two times. And then The statute in Texas on that. The reason it was in statute is there's an obscure. part of the statue in Texas that if a perpetrator has more than five victims, there's no statute of limitations criminally, unfortunately, like two of the victims dropped out after trial, got postponed so much that they didn't have the five victims willing to testify. So he's just outliving his life. and, I came forward about that and The senate committee Hearing in Texas because I was so inspired by friends like Cindy, klemish sure who was a victim of Robert Morris, one of the largest mega church Pastors in the country out of North Texas. She was 12 when he started abusing her and I caught him finally in Oklahoma because of a loophole and statute there where as like a frontier law. So if you come through the state committed crime and leave, it told the statue of limitations doesn't apply and so they were able to get Robert Morris through that statue and Oklahoma and then a bunch of women were inspired by Cindy story. Came forward in Oklahoma about an Assemblies of God pastor, Joe Campbell also from Missouri. He was running a camp in Missouri. Speaker 2 Holy shit. Speaker 1 Yeah. So um, anyway, so we're at this hearing Cindy's testifying and then there's this, this young man named Joseph who was abused in the Assemblies of God, they have a college Ministry called Chi Alpha. Just a cesspool. for these predators and his abuse started when he was a minor but went well into his adulthood so, after hearing Our Testimony, like I refer to myself as a college kid and we call them college kids. Your kid like so after Joseph testified about being abused up to like age, 23, 24. We were advocating for trays law to apply to sexual assault survivors of any age. and that's what we got passed in Texas because College kids shouldn't be put under NBA's either when they've survived a sexual assault. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Someone like Joseph definitely should have never been put under an NDA for what he survived. But he also exposed that simply have God was using nda's at the staff level. So they'd have people coming in a closed room and talk about. How are we going to cover this up? Sign an NDA before we disclose what's going on? So Trace law addresses that too. So like yeah, avoids ndas for employees as well. Who know, something about the abuse? It's all released all truths up free. Truth set free and Texas. I'm so proud of Texas because what we accomplished with Trey's law in Texas is the best outcome possible for what we wanted this law to achieve. and I see signs of Try everywhere. That's what keeps me going. And I brought this book signs. It's by Laura Lynne Jackson. The a lot of the moms of the heavens, 27 read this book too. And she grew up as a Christian. I also believe that people have spiritual gifts and so she, I don't think the two are in conflict with each other. I think some people are just more in touch with the other side than others and Lauren Jackson's one of those. And so people labeled her a top medium and the country, but her book is Secret Language of the universe signs secret language of the universe. and these signs that I get from my brother and that, these families are getting from their Angels Above are undeniable and I'm so convinced that when people leave this earth, their Spirits are still with us and When trade, I got inundated with a bunch of notes, from a lot of friends and people who loved him, who care about my family. And there were three out of like all these 100s of notes, three things that really stuck with me. One was from a childhood best friend's mom. She wrote in her note. Oh, with a lot of other things, too. But she said the veil Between Heaven and Earth is so thin. And it's like, wow. I've been, I've been feeling that, you know, you kind of notice. They people. Sometimes it's a butterfly, it's a cardinal. It's a rainbow the signs. I've gotten from Trey, aren't just generic. It's like very specific and And powerful. And then, Speaker 2 can you share any? I've had this happen a lot. Speaker 1 yeah, so an example is about two weeks before you died. He dropped off this potted plant on my porch. And I wouldn't say we were like fighting. I just, as I mentioned earlier, set up some boundaries where I, Didn't. Want to get sucked into like three, our phone calls every night about how suicidal he was stuff like that. Like I need it. Boundaries. I have kids. so we were at that point in the relationship, where I just set some boundaries, He dropped off this podded plant with the sweet note and it was on my porch when I got back from North Carolina, my husband's from North Carolina. I'm not we go back and forth a bit and I don't think he even knew we were in North Carolina. So anyways, it was all my porch. I bring it inside. I read the note and then he died. So that's the last thing I got from my brother. and, My oldest child at the time, was going into first grade. and, one more it was like, so I tried died in August, was like, October, Maybe My oldest son. Is like, can I tell you about a dream? I had I was like, yeah, sure. This will take 10 minutes, right? It's 7 year old had a dream, really something weird and funny, 40,000 words later, he had me type it out. It was a story about an evil villain named captain Pete. Who was trying to take over the world and the kids fought back and defeated the evil. Captain Pete. Speaker 2 Holy shit. Speaker 1 And he didn't know He didn't not know that trade had been abused by someone named Pete in it. He is so little like I'm not telling him how trade I did at that point. My therapist said, only answer the questions your kids ask because of how little they are. I'm just answer the question. His unclean haven't. Yes. Did Uncle Trey die? Yes. You know the other questions came later the more complicated ones, the sad ones. But he didn't know anything about the circumstances of Trace abuse or how he died. And I brought you these books. So he's a published author now. Three times over. It's called The Magic Island Chronicles and I hope your kids can enjoy these one day. He's about to come out with the fourth. And it's dedicated to his Uncle T. Really special and so yeah, that's one example and then I took him to Paris that October. And our flight out of Paris got delayed. Delayed cancel sold. So, we had to hop over to Heathrow spent the night in London, where at breakfast the morning after that. So, we're not supposed to be in London, like we were supposed to fly back from Charlotte Hall and Paris and we're suddenly stuck in London, we go to breakfast. That exact flower, that Trey dropped off on my porch before he died was on our breakfast table. Look around the wrist, I start crying. And will my son's like, why are you crying like These are the flowers. Uncle T gave me right before he died. I'd never seen them before in my life. And they're at our breakfast table. And no other tables around us have these flowers. Speaker 2 Wow. Speaker 1 Stuff like that all the time. Speaker 2 You don't hear one of mine. Speaker 1 Mm-hmm, I do. Speaker 2 My best friend died of a heroin overdose. and, We we worked. He was a seal with contracted to say together. And he got really wrapped up in the opiates. He was part of Red Wings, Speaker 1 if Speaker 2 you know what that was. It was the biggest loss in history at the time, anyways. When we left the agency, he was living with me for a long time and I was trying to save them. And then, that was in Florida. I moved to Tennessee and he, he overdose shortly thereafter, but wow, he was Wow, I was still in Florida. He was trying to he was a pro hockey player before he was a seal. and so, He? while he was all jumped out, he would tell me I'm I'm gonna start the Wounded Warriors. Hockey team. And the Panthers. The NHL team, they're gonna sponsor it. like, Oh, okay, Gabe right on and that's the luck. The day he died. The Panthers won over to his condo to tell him that they were going to fund his fucking team. And they found him dead. What? He had overdosed. And so fast forward a teams. That's his jersey right there. The Panthers. Oh my gosh and they still funded it. So let's fast forward, right? So I always I'm always talking to Gabe and I did this interview overseas it Ruffled a lot of feathers and with the Taliban and because I had me and a guy Legend had broken, the story that the US government sending 40 to 87 million dollars a week to the Taliban and cash. And I got really paranoid and I was like, oh shit, they're gonna fucking kill me and we'd come back. We did the interview in Austria. And we came back and that this isn't my old Studio. That Jersey was hanging, right? When you walk in the front door, right? Been hanging there for about three years. I come home. From that. And I'm already paranoid and that thing is falling on the floor, no glass broke. The nail hole wasn't weird. It just was on the ground and I felt like Gabe was trying to tell me something. So the whole day I'm like, And nobody else was at the studio. So my sister and the whole team was in Austria. And I asked her, did you? There's no reason for you to have done this but why, you know, she's like, oh, wasn't like that yesterday. And so, everybody leaves on pacing around and I'm like, what are you trying to fucking tell me, man, what do I need to be looking out for and I go home, I tell my wife. and, She just looked at me and she goes. The Panthers. Just won the fucking Stanley Cup yesterday. Speaker 1 What? Speaker 2 And I was like, holy shit. And then I, and then I found it on June 28th which is the day Red Wings happened and those were his guys. Well, Speaker 1 It's specific. Speaker 2 Oh yeah Speaker 1 there's no doubting that Gabe saying hello. Speaker 2 Yeah Speaker 1 there's one or something was. Speaker 2 Yeah so I started laughing his Katie told me that now was I started laughing because I was like man Gabe's over here. Probably looking at me. Like you fuking idiot. I'm not trying to warn you of anything. The fucking Panthers just won the Stanley Cup. And it's June 28th. Speaker 1 It was soberish. Yeah, Speaker 2 I know. I know I was like, man. I gotta cut stop taking my soul so seriously, but but I've had a lot of shit like that happened, man. And Well, it's definitely not a coincidence, Speaker 1 it's not a coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences. And I will say another note that I mentioned three that really stood out. The second one was a woman who had lost her husband and her son in the same year. Her son was a friend of mine. And she wrote in the note, joy and sorrow can coexist. And I really needed to hear that. And To your point of taking yourself, so seriously. It's easy to do that when you're experiencing a tragedy and going through grief, Speaker 2 but Speaker 1 we have to give ourselves the permission to feel Joy and sorrow. They can co-exist and then another note, a friend wrote, Her her brother was really good friends with Trey. She's one of my best friends. Speaker 2 How do you do that? How do you find joy and sorrow? If you figure that out. Well, Speaker 1 that's what these signs tell me to have. And if you listen to him, you know that's gave like Panthers won smile, chill out. And these signs, that's what I always get. It's like a chill out. Like You have so many blessings, so many things to be grateful for. Like, focus on that. And but you, it doesn't fix the sorrow but joy and sorrow can coexist and you can find purpose in the pain. and, That's why I am so energized by the work. I do people like, aren't you exhausted? Its like, Constantly I've gotten rid of the drug dealer phone now and I just like use my normal phone. I'm not so scared of the can of cult at this point, they should be scared of me and all the other way around. And they are now that I've seen trays NDA after September 1st. I know exactly why. They're, so scared of try enough of me. Can I cook specifically demanded the NDA? Not the insurance company. Not the other defendant. They tacked on more money if he would sign the NBA and his lawyer, let him do it. And he called it Blood Money. And so, This third note, I got from my friend whose brother was close with Trey. She said, God's work. Is not done with Trey yet. And that. gets me up in the morning and gets me the fighting to have I don't know if you feel this with that Gabe or others that been close to you that you've lost but they're okay, they're holding heal. Speaker 2 Oh yeah. Speaker 1 We're the ones left behind to do the work that the lessons they taught us tell us to do. and if you can't have joy in that, I think it's a slap in the face to your loved one on the other side. They don't want us to. Be sad. Every time we think of them, so, they sent us these little glimmers and they send us these And calm godwinks sometimes. Speaker 2 You get paying attention, though. Speaker 1 You have to be open to it, you have to be paying attention. and, if you are, then it becomes sustainable, at least for me. Others. This is so depressing. I mean, Yeah I'm just here Sean to lighten. The light in the mood today about child rape and I hope your next guest is like something. Oh, Speaker 2 you want to know my next guest? Is Speaker 1 that Speaker 2 Rokana. Speaker 1 Oh Speaker 2 we're talking about the upstein files Speaker 1 good. I can't wait to watch that. We posted one of his quotes on our trays while social media. He had some good ones and yeah, I'll be real Curious to hear what he has to say about that. Speaker 2 Him a Massey really blew the lid off of that. Thank God. Somebody fucking had the nuts to do it, right. Speaker 1 I respect. And stand with those survivors so much because they've been waiting for 20 years and I mean, can I go about to catch up to it? Because it's been like Newman's been in prison for 16 years. But there are 1000, there's over 1,000 Epstein victims. and, No justice. And I'm glad that the public is pressing in and putting pressure on the files being really released. Whatever that looks like. I don't I couldn't tell you tactically how to do that but it can't be that hard. Keep calling it out. I appreciate you. Speaker 2 I will fly you. but, And thank you. Speaker 1 Thank you. Speaker 2 Thank you for coming. Thank you for watching. Speaker 1 I'm so sacred honor. Speaker 2 Let me know if I can help anymore. Speaker 1 I'll be Speaker 2 No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan Show from. If you get anything out of this at all anything, please like, comment and subscribe. In most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, had Apple, podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.