27 Strength without size

Hello and welcome to the high-performance physiology podcast. I'm Chris Beardsley. I'm here with my co-host Rob Mauseri. Well, we're going to talk about a topic today that has been a question that's recurring in my Instagram. There are messages in my Instagram questions each week. I think Rob gets a question quite a lot as well. Which is how do you get stronger without getting heavier. Now technically that's not usually the way that it's phrased. Normally the way that it's phrased is how do you get stronger without getting bigger and okay, fine. That's kind of the same thing. But I think it's important to just emphasise the fact that we are talking about strength relative to weight because it's classically referred to as power to weight ratio. But that is generally the way that we see it in sporting context. It's kind of how strong you are relative to however you are because that really determines your ability in many different sporting situations. It also obviously allows you to fit into a particular weight class. So basically the mechanisms of strength, we're going to stick to the maximum strength side of things today. If there's interest we can kind of go down the route of thinking about the more power to weight ratio type ideas and kind of bring speed into the mix later on in another conversation. But today we'll stick with maximum strength. So basically what we're going to do is just describe very quickly what I'm going to do is describe very quickly the maximum strength mechanisms. But if you would like a more detailed analysis, there is a episode dedicated to that at the beginning of our series. So maximum strength mechanisms include neuro mechanisms and also peripheral mechanisms on the neural side you've got coordination, corrective vision reductions and increases in motine at recruitment level. And then on the peripheral side you've got obviously hypertrophy and psychomerogenesis which in this context we tend to go together. And then you've got lateral force transition increases and depending on what the straight shortening cycle is doing in the movement you're interested in, you've then got tendon stiffness or compliance as appropriate. But honestly, generally speaking, it's more likely going to be tendon stiffness that is probably more important in most maximum strength situations. When you go down more the power kind of route or speed route, then yeah, sure we might be interested in tundling compliance system. Now, in terms of improving maximum strength without kind of adding too much extra body mass, basically there are two things we need to think about. There's two contexts to really think about this in the first context is if we are actually practicing the movement that we are going to be tested in. Imagine you're talking about the weight lifting or power lifting or some other strong man and you're basically doing a gym exercise which is either identical or as near as identical as you're going to get to the actual movement you're going to be tested in the competition that you are training for. In that scenario, you've got coordination, corrective vision reductions as to really, really important components of your maximum strength improvements and actually they're going to pretty much obliterate the others in all reality. They're going to be so much bigger than everything else. Now on the other side, obviously if you're training for a particular kind of sport and your gym movements and gym exercises don't look pretty much identical or as near as identical as you're going to be to the tested movement in the sporting context, then you're not really going to have those things. You're not going to have that coordination improvement supporting you. You're not really going to have that corrective vision reduction, not very much. There's going to be a little bit more on that side than there is on the coordination side, but there is not going to be very much transfer on that side. So you're going to be relying on the other mechanisms, you've got recruitment and then obviously when you start looking at the peripheral side, you're like, well, hang on a minute. If I start improving muscle size and whether it's bi-psychymogenesis or hypertrophy, then I'm potentially going to start creating a mass increase which is not going to be helpful for me in the context, not necessarily. And we'll get into that as we go through. And obviously the lateral fourth time mission that potentially will be beneficial without increasing muscle size or overall body weight. So basically just by introducing this, what I'm saying is that you've got two separate contexts, we've got two separate contexts to talk about when we're talking about gaining strength relative to size or relative to mass. One context is where we've got coordination as a possible route to improvement and one scenario where we don't. So Rob, I'm not sure which one we should start with first, whether we should start with the kind of coordination based one where it's more of power lifting, a little bit weight lifting, strong mind type situation, whether we should start with the kind of more general one. I guess the general one is probably easier, but yeah, let's start with that. So when you're thinking about improving, when you're writing a training program and and your client has a specific requirement to ensure that they don't increase body mass and their focus is maximum strength rather than kind of the more sort of power and speed related in the spectrum. So we're not, we're not talking necessarily about, you know, a kind of an athlete where they're trying to keep their body weight down for maybe, you know, speed related reasons like a sprint, a sprint to my want to keep their body weight down, you know, to avoid getting, you know, that detrimental effect to extra mass, but we're thinking more about the maximum strength and the spectrum. So talks through a kind of approach that you would take in terms of, you know, I mean, everything exercise selection sets reps frequency, all that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, so the first one will throw right right out of the way just because we mentioned it before the podcast, just don't eat too much. So take that and run with that one, but from the programming end of things. So really, you know, if I have a client who for whatever reason doesn't now want to increase their overall, you know, mass too much, they just want to get much stronger. I mean, the first thing I'm going to be looking at, if you're trying to add as much, you know, muscle mass as possible, get as much hypertrophies you can, you're going to be want to, you're going to want to be getting as many, you know, stimulating reps. And then you can do a session per week on that as you can be while you're still recovering between sessions. And you know, that could be low or, you know, more often it's going to be moderate reps. And I guess a little bit more training volume, you know, on a procession and then on a total weekly basis, you know, hard volume of those reps. Or, you know, right away, I'm going to be going more towards a bit lower rep ranges. Still saying a bit, you know, a bit shy failure, probably a couple reps and reserve, something like that. You know, really just to, I guess, be limiting the total amount of stimulating reps, possession and per week. You know, if you're training lower volumes, very heavy loads, lower reps, all those things, you'll be getting a good amount of strength increase. And then if you're, you know, I guess I'm limiting the overall amount of stimulating reps, you'll be getting, I guess, a smaller amount of total hypertrophy than you otherwise would. You know, exercise selection wise, if coordination is not a factor, when you're still going to be looking then at typical body building type exercises, I mean, if you want to get stronger. You know, I'm still going to be going for like fairly stable, maybe more compound like multi join exercises, maybe not as much isolation work, you know, it would depend on the person and what exactly they want. There's a lot of different caveats here, but, you know, if coordination is not a factor and we're saying here that it's not, you know, you just want general, what people refer to as general strength, which I guess most of the time is coming from hypertrophy. But in this case, just a smaller amount, you know, still want to get things like, you know, I guess bench presses, pull downs, squats, hinges, you know, all the normal stuff, maybe machine variants. And then just, you know, like I said, so many things you could think about here, but depending on the person and what muscles they may or may not need for, you know, that's with every person. I think that's a really important point because straight away, you can, you can, yeah, you can make a decision and you can go, well, you know, these are much less importance. Therefore, I can allow that to remain at a lower level of development. And then that saved me. It's like a budget that I'm saving on. If you, you know, you need, you don't need big, big calves, big forearms, big, if you don't need as much, you know, middle, dealt, which, you know, is probably pretty logical. If you're not a bodybuilder or things like that, where there's all those kind of more physique oriented muscles, I guess that you could, you could kind of just leave out of your program. I mean, if you're doing, you know, general overhead presses, bench presses, all that kind of stuff, you'll be getting most, most everything an athlete would need without, you know, rounding things out. When the more aesthetics focused, isolated stuff, see I can weave that. I mean, I'm not going to be if someone wants a limit muscle mass increase, not going to focus on lateral raises and like breaking already hours work, like little things like that, that you wouldn't with a bodybuilder who's trying to maximize muscle size everywhere they can. Sure, sure, absolutely. And obviously that's, that's kind of taking a sort of defensive strategy, what you're doing there, you sort of saying, I'm going to try and avoid adding mass by, you know, putting hypertrophy, you know, in places I don't necessarily need it, and also I'm not going to chase hypertrophy aggressively. So I'm going to keep the, you know, rep ranges lower, I'm assuming we're kind of working either two or three times a week in this context, depending on the area. the person. Um, so yeah, we're keeping sets, uh, relatively, uh, kind of low, we're keeping, um, reps, uh, rep ranges relatively low. So I guess four to six, maybe, um, uh, reps and reserve. And yeah, I mean, I think an essential kind of, uh, number of exercises, not, not pushing that too much. But I guess on the other side, you could play more, uh, kind of offensively. So kind of that's the defensive side of it. And you're kind of avoiding doing something you don't want to do in playing offensively. And you obviously have the motina accruement to chase. So when you're chasing motina accruement, what are kind of the tools that you've got in your toolbox? Then you can use, I mean, put it once we mentioned for brief isometrics. When you want, you can absolutely use, um, again, heavy loads, you know, threes, twos, things like that. I think most people will, will notice if you're trying to really improve your strength on a lift and you've been even doing, you know, sets of like five or six, and you drop it to, you know, sets a two to three, you really do see like even, you know, exercises that are not super coordination driven, a giant increase in, in strength. Um, I mean, it goes up very fast in the first few sessions. And I mean, yeah, like, it's a coordination element, but it's not a highly coordinated exercise. So then you're getting, you know, you're getting strength increases and recruitment increases in that specific muzzle. Um, again, without a ton of hypertrophy and without relying on, you know, huge amounts of coordination after maybe the initial few sessions. So cool. So yeah, so I guess, I guess you could work in a couple of single joint or even single joint, single limb isometric contractions into the warmup prior to doing your kind of main session. Um, also, I guess you could move between rep ranges. I mean, you could have some sessions where you're doing, um, you know, sort of, as you say, properly heavy loads, like twos and threes and other sessions where you're doing kind of the four to sixes and kind of just alternating, I guess, across the week. I mean, that's the thing that you can do really that we tend to be kind of quite clear that, um, sort of, if you're doing two sessions a week, you don't want to be doing different exercises for the same possible. Different rep ranges totally different ranges is totally fine. Yeah, I mean, that's that's cool. And actually that might be very comfortable. Um, and sort of, um, you know, give people the chance to or give the client a chance to, um, you know, work in that sort of heavy load rep range without feeling like it's kind of, you know, um, existential threat every time you go to the gym. Yeah. Yeah, not everyone likes twos and threes every time. Not every time. No, it's not everyone's comfortable there. No fun though. It's not. So cool. Okay. So I think that that's, that's a really good, um, template there. So basically what we're saying is, um, you've got these two main things to think about the recruitment side, which we're chasing, you know, that's our offensive side. So we're going to try and put isometric. So you could even do some high velocities to other. This is not really the complex high velocity kind of athletes, but you could do some jumps at the beginning or something throws. But generally speaking, isometrics with single joint, single limbs probably going to be the most kind of, um, uh, kind of, uh, the strategy with the longest amount of kind of space in it is going to carry on giving you gains for the longest time. Yeah, you're running away with that. Yeah. I think so. Um, and then, and then obviously the main heavy strength training session, and that's where we start to think more, or you can still think offensively, you can go down the heavy load route, but you can also think defensively and try and just avoid, you know, kind of adding too much hypertrophy in places where you don't need it, but also just generally overall, because we can kind of push that lateral force transition a little bit, you know, without necessarily feeling that we're always adding mass. But as you said at the beginning, uh, fundamentally, you know, uh, there are lots of people out there, even now doing strength training programs, which are, you know, not like this at all, and actually, um, much higher volume and much more like bodybuilding programs, but the bodyweight is going down, you know, simply because what they're eating. So, you know, I think this is the thing that people forget is like they, they can ask these questions about how do I get strong without getting bigger? And so well, it's not so much in your program as much as is what you're doing outside at the gym, really. Yeah. Like muscle hypertrophy is going to come along incredibly slowly regardless. And then like overall bodyweight, you know, if you're, if you're not purposely pushing your calories very much, you're just not going to be increasing bodyweight very much. So yeah. Exactly. You really watch the food end of things. Yeah. But of course, you know, if we are in that territory where we're kind of trying to keep calories under control, we don't particularly want to be doing a lot of, uh, for teasing exercise and actually this kind of template works really well anyway. So, you know, it's not going to be surprising that this kind of template is going to look pretty much like a kind of, not, I wouldn't say it looks like a pre-competition, uh, kind of bodybuilding training program because it doesn't because it doesn't have, you know, every exercise under the sun in it. But, you know, it does probably look a little bit more like an athlete training program where they are, you know, either doing a lot of other stuff, um, competition or, you know, they are trying to, you know, reduce bodyweight a little bit. Cool. So now let's, um, look at the other side of the equation. So if we're now starting to think about, um, you know, powerlifting athletes or, uh, other strength athletes, um, we've got an exercise, uh, in the strength training program that actually can be improved by coordination and it's kind of a little brother, the characterization reductions, which kind of functions in more or less the same way. Um, we've done, we've done episodes on powerlifting before. So I'm not proposing we kind of start, you know, rehashing that and talking about powerlifting, but just in kind of print, in, in principle, um, how are you thinking about then changing the approach when you've now got the ability to improve, um, strength by coordination? Yeah. Um, I mean, first of all, if you want to improve strength from the coordination end of things, whatever specific exercise you want to improve, why is that at the beginning of the program? Um, we don't want any fatigue present there, anything to be interfering with the coordination adaptations. So right away, I just, you know, if for some reason you've been doing it later, move it to the front of the program and then that'll help quite a lot, um, leaving a few reps and reserves saying quite a ways from failures. Well, if you're trying to improve coordination, like, yes, it's a load specific, but as long as you're getting in, you know, reasonably heavy loads, we're also, I'm going to also assume that you're, you know, like you said, trying to improve one rep max strength, a clean squat, anything like that. Um, you know, reasonably heavy loads, few reps shy of failure, you know, three, sometimes maybe four, um, again, you know, that would be limiting the total amount of stimulating reps as well. It'll have you along with those coordination gains, um, and then frequency, you know, generally training, low session volume, higher frequencies, so you can get a lot of fresh practice through the week and just over time. So those, you know, those three things right there will definitely help you with the coordination element, um, reductions in co-activation, you know, kind of just tagging along with those not, not really needing to target them specifically. Um, you know, I guess the only caveat with those is, you know, I guess like coordination and velocity load specific to an extent, but, you know, if you're using heavy loads, you'll be getting them at least in my opinion as much as you're going to get. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really interesting, uh, kind of shift of mindset, isn't it? It's kind of where we're, we're now thinking about practicing. We're now thinking about, you know, a skill. So we're now looking to get as many quality skill, quality from a skill point of view, not quality from a high-perture point of view. I'm trying to get as many skill, uh, quality reps as possible. So yeah, I mean, like thinking about maybe something like a five sets of two with three reps of zero. I mean, that's, that can be fantastic. Oh, that would be great. Um, so, so that, yeah. And so imagine you kind of, you're coming into the workout. We're still trying to do the things that we did before. I mean, this, everything that we, uh, talked about in just five minutes ago is still valid. So you're coming into the workout. Maybe you're thinking, okay, so you've either got high velocity jump or something. If you're, say, let's say we're trying to improve squat performance, maybe you've got high velocity, uh, jump to improve quadriceps, um, kind of moat. Or maybe you just do a knee extension isometric of parriolma. And then you move on to your squat, because as you see, put it first in the workout and we do, you know, five sets of two, five doubles, basically plenty of rest. Um, now here's just an interesting point we can add. Um, because we're trying to improve coordination in the lift, we can use an external focus of attention and it's actually going to help us, you know, it's going to help us maximize that coordination in the moment, but also it's going to help us maximize the gains in coordination over time. So don't tend to talk a lot about external focus tension, because it's just not relevant towards most of the time, because we're not dealing with, kind of the movements that athletes are competing in, but here it obviously is relevant. So just worth kind of reinforcing that. So yeah, um, I was just a real quick mentioning, um, you know, one of those in one's seeking out coaching, you know, yeah, absolutely. And that's good to me. Yeah, me nice. Improving technique as much as you can over time and making whatever small adjustments you would need to that movement pattern. Yeah, I mean, it's got to be seen as a journey. I mean, like, I think a lot, what happens to a lot of people is they kind of feel like they want to, you know, fix their squat or improve their squat or improve their left. And it's like they think it's something that they're just going to do. And then it's ticked and then they can walk away. Yes, well, it's more, there are phases in the journey, but it is a journey. I mean, it's like, you can carry on kind of making those adjustments and changes. And not necessarily, you know, always through the same techniques. Sometimes it can be extra for a good engine that's doing that for you automatically. Sometimes it can be getting your own video feedback. Sometimes it can be working with the coaches. Sometimes it can be all of those things. I mean it's like there's a whole set of tools available to us to do that. But that I think is super, super important because as I said at the beginning, coordination really is going to massively overshadow all the other mechanisms really. And that's why you see some people who can just do lift monstrous amounts of weight. And it's like, well, their levers are really good and they've got a great coordination in the moment. They've mastered that particular activity. Yeah. I think one of the things people go wrong with when it comes to improving coordination in lifts, I see it all the time with the power lifts and that. And even somewhat in the Olympic lifts, having people do incredibly light loads and things like technique days, technique sessions, whether you use like just a loading that's really not relevant. And then yeah, like you're able to execute the technique that you may like at the heavier load. But it's just not, you know, at that point, you know, if you say you can squat 200 kilograms and you do, you know, 100 kilograms for a technique session, you're really not getting much out of that. Like at that point, I mean, yeah, sure, it meets conditions of being like part of failure and things like that. But it's just so light. It's not really, you know, relevant. You know, the recruitment, the muscles involved are going to change in heavier loads. The pattern's just going to be different. So if you're trying to improve coordination and technique in that, I definitely don't suggest going that route. And I think I still see that too often. And though, yeah, I'm practicing. And it's like, yeah, but I want to really consider that the right kind of practice for a heavy strength work. Yeah, that's really important. And I think, I mean, that that topic is quite deep. And it has got quite a lot of interesting kind of rubber holes to it. But the easiest way, I think, just to kind of get a full hold into it is just to think you're doing a back squat, bubble back squat. You've got the obviously bubble weight on your shoulders. If you change that bubble weight, obviously you're not changing your body weight when you do that because you're still the same person lifting two different weights. Your center of mass as a system has now moved. Yeah. And just like I think that one observation helps a lot of people who have, you know, basic understanding of kind of classical mechanics. It helps them realize that, yeah, now my relative muscle activations have got to be different. Even if you can't just say, well, I'm increasing all the mass activations the same. It's the same movement. I might know it's not. No, it's just moved your center of mass closer to the barbell. If the barbell is not heavier, but you've changed, stayed the same weight, your center of mass as a system has now moved. Therefore, all your mass activations are now different. So you can't, as you point it out, you can't just say, oh, I'm practicing, you know, kind of the squat with the bar or with the bar plus a couple of plates. And yet, my max effort squat is like, you know, several plates. It's not well, then different things are different. Very different. It's the same as it's just a more extreme version, I guess, if I were to do just a body weight squat, and you take a look at it, and it would look disgusting. And then I can, you know, squat perfectly well with even a plate, two plates, three, four, whatever it may be. It changes so much as you just add that load to the bar. Yeah. And people really, when it comes to the technique working that don't, don't really factor that in so well out of the time. Yeah. And I think really what that points us to is looking for those high quality reps, you know, that are close to our kind of target weight, you know, as I say, I think five doubles is a really nice sweet spot. I mean, there's other alternatives absolutely, but I really like that one. I think it has a nice combination of being, you know, allowing it's kind of truncated at burn really. I mean, I just found that burn was too, too much. Well, you know, I think it is, it's just silly. Yeah, but I do four or five sets from, you know, two or three stuff with that. Yeah, I think that's a really good sweet spot. Yeah. Yeah. So, and that obviously gets, you know, as close as we can to that practice zone, as I say, we can use tools like, you know, the external focus retention to maximize those coordination gains. Really, then when you start to sort of bring in questions around like powerlifting, then really it just becomes a matter of saying, well, okay, now I'm trying to spread myself across a larger number of goals that I have. Instead of just having one exercise that I'm trying to chase, I've now got three. And now it's so a lot harder because I've now got to move these across the week. And that's really where programming for powerlifting becomes a little bit messier and more difficult because you can't just say, oh, well, we're just going to carry on doing, you know, the first time we can't. Yeah. And for any support, what you're saying, where you have with the powerlifting or even Olympic lifting, you have multiple lifts, you have to target. Programming wise through the week, you just want to make sure you have fresh exposures. Exactly. You get into the session of each of those lifts to be maximizing coordination over time. You can't just start every session with a squat or start every session with your clean work, things like that. You're going to have to at some point make it so that you place them all to be getting, which is where I know we talked a little bit about splits. But, you know, you can then do upper lower splits, you know, with success. And some other split routines that it can make a bit more sense than in the context of, you know, normal athletic training where full body is going to be kind of the standard. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's definitely chasing that coordination that changes things. And then when you combine that with the demands of powerlifting, requiring you to kind of do three different lifts, then suddenly it's like, well, okay, how I'm going to fill this in, how I'm going to get these fresh exposures to all of these things, you know, across the week. Can't do that in the normal kind of full body two or three times a week pattern easily. Can be done if you've got all the time. Not as elegant, really, I don't think. Cool. So you've already mentioned that you've seen, I mean, I think we've kind of, I think we've kind of sort of covered a pretty good coverage there of those two, those two kind of aspects of this question. But you've already mentioned that you've seen people, you know, going down the wrong route here, by focusing on training with lighter loads to improve coordination. Are you seeing anything across either of these two scenarios, whether it be improving with coordination or improving, without coordination, are you seeing anything that people are doing out there in the moment that is definitely off kind of the, you know, sort of sensible side of things to put it in. Yeah, I mean, when it comes to the side of improving things, you know, that don't have a coordination element. I mean, I think the biggest one is people just thinking they need to avoid strength training altogether for that activity and that sport. I still, I see that in combat sports a lot, still people thinking they don't need or shouldn't do strength training when they have, you know, a weight class cap and things like that. And it's just because they don't know how to go about it in a way that they could, you know, structure a program to very easily stay in that weight class and maximize strength gain that's useful for the sport. So yeah, I think just avoiding strength work altogether. Still one of the biggest ones. And it's, it's unfortunate, it's still very prevalent in combat sports that they really underestimate the benefits and think, you know, it's, it's so, so skill-based that the person with more skill is always going to win. And if you have two people of equal skill and one of them is significantly stronger, you know, more powerful, et cetera, that person is going to win every day. Yeah, and we talked about this in the context of combat sports before. And I think there are certain scenarios where you can kind of get really creative with certain different types of strength, depending on whether we're looking eccentric strength or, you know, different, you know, velocities and that kind of thing. And those scenarios, I think, yeah, we, I mean, especially on the eccentric side where you suddenly now got an extra set of adaptions you can bring in. And, you know, suddenly you've got the ability to add on lots of extra strength that isn't really costing you anything in terms of mass. Or, you know, if it does, it's, it's kind of punching well above its weight. So, yeah. I think the other one I see often still when people are trying to limit size in your state of wake-up is, you know, focusing on a classic kind of power training because they'll say that they're not going to be putting on size. And yeah, you won't really be putting on size. I won't really be doing any of that. I'm not getting, like, transferable strength gains. You're getting good at whatever, you know, loading and velocity you're working at. But there's not anything else happening there. Interestingly, interestingly, here's an interesting idea there. A lot of people do, yes, you're right. I've seen that. People kind of go, oh, well, I'm just going to do power training rather than strength training because I don't want to add any size. I'm like, okay, so if you're doing basically identical exercises, let's say you're doing a jump squat instead of doing a back squat. Technically, you could just do a couple of heavy reps with a couple of reps in reserve and you'd probably get the same gains, the recruitment that you're getting in the power training. You might get a little bit of extra stuff, you know, kind of from the heavy strength training that you're not getting from the power training. But you could replace a lot of that with some asymmetrics. Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's something that I think is is really interesting. You could actually just say, well, actually, you know, I'm just going to do some max FIs metric. And we're doing them a more stable situation. I'm going to do them with less muscle mass. And I'm going to get better gains in recruitment than I'm guessing from either of those two approaches. And my up people go, that's heresy. And my wife actually is probably quite a good idea. And I actually had a conversation with one of my athletes today who was asking about some various things with warm-ups. And I was just explaining exactly that. When you're trying to improve recruitment, the more isolated, the more stable, the less muscle, the better, because it was comparing, essentially, very muscle-specific versus, I think we've talked about it before, like a pin pole variation on a deadlift. Sure, yes. I'm like, that's him. He asked me about that. And I said, you know, sure, you could. But whatever muscle you, for some reason, want to increase, just find an asymmetric that's specific to that muscle. Yeah, definitely, definitely. I'm not saying that, you know, sort of multi-joint is never a good idea. No, no. Just, I mean, I think, sort of, single-limm multi-joint can be really cool. I mean, a single-limm pulling, that kind of thing. I think that's definitely got some value to it. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, you know, you can generally set these things up very easily and quickly without not doing equipment, if you've just got a standard commercial gym. And, you know, they probably will give you that recruitment improvement that you're actually basically getting as your primary adoption from something like powertraining. Yeah, I mean, that would be the only thing that I'd be going on, really. (laughing) I mean, it's so strange. The powertraining gets so much attention and so much, you know, kind of effort gets put into it. And you look at it and go, well, what adoption am I getting out of it? And it's coordination in the movement, the practicing and motino recruitment. I'm like, what else is going on? It's mad. And it gets so much attention. It's like, it's like, practically, you know, a third of SNC is just running around doing these power movements. I'm like, I'm really not sure I see the kind of - I mean, years ago, you know. - Years and years ago I did them. And I'm like, nothing ever happened. You know, really happened in my jump heights, my broad jump, my anything really. And I'm like, now I know why, but, you know, 15 years ago as an athlete, I had no idea. I'm like, wow, I'm doing all this power training. And I don't feel like I'm getting more powerful. - Yeah, that's the problem. Cool. I think that's basically been a pretty good coverage of that topic. We will probably come back next time and talk about a similar topic. There was something we're going to talk about similar. It was, oh yes, it was. The other, this was one of two questions that I keep getting. So this is the first one. The second one that I keep getting is, if I'm like, people ask me, they say, if I'm already doing like a kind of standard, not competitive bodybuilding training program, but like in the spirit of a bodybuilding style training program 'cause my kind of personal goals have been largely physique related. So we're going to gym largely doing a kind of, you know, maybe four body three times a week. Pretty complete exercise selection across that week. And then they say, okay, yeah, but now I want to go and play some sport on our weekend. And so the question is kind of, how do I take my existing bodybuilding program and add in some sort of athletic elements without now kind of interfering across both the athletic side and the bodybuilding side. Well, of course, the answer is, well, you are going to interfere a little bit, but we will do our best next week to answer that question. So you're interested in how to convert your existing bodybuilding training program as I say, not competitive bodybuilding, but like, you know, sort of all you call general population style bodybuilding training. If you're interested in adding a little bit of athletic focus to that, we will cover that in our next episode next week.