#2568 - Ross Edgley

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day thank you my man brought 18 year old that's good whoa that's the real deal 18 year old single malt scotch whiskey that's smoky delicious i had a what is a true story i had a deal set up for a whiskey deal like they wanted to do you know they do these things like with celebrities and i was like well we got a lot of money i guess i could do it all right let's do it and so they said that they could help me like design the whiskey i'm like oh that'd be really cool so first i wanted to do it with buffalo trace but buffalo trace was like look we love you but the reality is that we don't have enough money to do it so we're going to do it with buffalo trace our whiskey takes like eight years in a barrel period like this that's the only way they do it oh that makes sense that's why it's so good okay that makes sense so i tried this whiskey and i was like oh it's pretty good it's pretty good i tried gave it to my friends like it's pretty good and then i fucked up and i had some 18 year old scotch and it was so good i'm like i can't lie if if i'll say this is my favorite whiskey but that will be a lie because this is so much better this is there's no substitute for time no there's no substitute for time in those barrels that tastes like scotland as well doesn't it i remember one of the writers when i was on news radio he exposed me to this stuff he said uh do you like whiskey i'm like it's okay it's kind of nasty you just do it to get a buzz right he's like no no you gotta like he he was like very specific you have like a large cube of ice and he's like come on let me buy you a it's like a 200 whiskey i'm like what two hundred dollars for a fucking glass he's like yeah yeah trust me trust me and so he bought me a bottle of whiskey and i was like oh my god i'm gonna buy you a bottle of whiskey this glass i was like oh oh okay it was 200 pounds it's a different thing it's a different thing if you drink a 20 year old whiskey it's a very different thing so it cost me who knows how much money because i i gotta get out of the deal and they're like what and i was like you didn't do it no like i can't lie i can't lie and say this is my favorite i respect i can't i could if i was poor look if i was broke i could lie but um i have a lot of money so i'm like i'm not lying to the sanctity of whiskey i respect this is there's they figured it out like the irish and the scotch the the scots they figured it out in scotland this is like a religious thing yeah for sure they don't fuck around for sure you get some really old scotch man really old scotch whiskey has a very distinct taste and they're willing to wait fucking 18 years to get that taste that's crazy that just reminds me of scotland we had to stop the podcast before the podcast even started because we were talking about so much cool shit i'm like i'm gonna leave the room because uh i don't want us to miss any of this so first of all you were telling me you swam around the 60 hours in loch ness yeah speaking of scotland oh because this is strange because obviously it was seven years ago now when we caught up when i swam around great britain and then since that was seven years ago weird right wow right and then and then now i've a career in inverted commas so we did yeah a 60 hour uh non-stop swim in loch ness um was going well so it was all for ocean conservation we raised so much money it was amazing um it was going well up until the 60 hour point started hallucinating started seeing things basically the only way i can describe it is um uh you're like you're looking through the eye of a needle it's just getting smaller and smaller and smaller and then it just went completely black it just went completely dark did you black out yeah blacked out basically it was uh hypothermia mixed with cellulitis so cellulitis is uh skin infection exactly yeah exactly from the wetsuit that was just getting to my bloodstream oh god you had a staph infection and at the same time you're hypothermic yeah and at the same time you've been up for three days yeah it's exactly it was a bad place to be joe it was a bad place in the middle of 60 hours of swimming it's so insane 60 hours of running is insane but you could stop running and take a nap you know what i'm saying it was so bad with the loch ness monster it was bad it was bad do you think that's real um i mean something touched my leg when i was but you were hallucinating yeah yeah yeah i'm not the best person to ask but exactly what you just said it was strange because my skin was on fire from the cellulitis but then i could feel in my bones i was getting so cold um anyway long story short blacked out i woke up and um just oh there we go yeah yeah oh there you go yes that's all over your back in your neck yeah so you're just ridden with staph infection yeah that's how bad it was oh that's horrible and i think it was it was coupled with the hypothermia so this is gonna sound so strange but but it went completely black i remember waking up and then i was in the hospital so did they have to scoop you out of the water yeah yeah how did they did you have someone beside you like with a net yeah we had a team they were amazing they scooped me up i look i basically opened my eyes the next thing i know i see my mom and my girlfriend at the head of the the hospital bed and i just went oh it's not going well has it and they were like ross no it's not you woke up in the hospital room yeah wow so the entire transport to the hospital you were out cold yeah yeah how long were you out cold yeah yeah cold for they think about 13 hours yeah you were out cold for 13 hours coming in and out of it i don't i don't say it proudly sort of coming in and out of consciousness i still sort of remember little bits but then like i said the main thing was just being there with my mom and my girlfriend and they were just they looked disappointed i was like i'm so sorry so so from there what's interesting a year later uh in lake tressimino in italy um we did another swim for charity it was amazing everything was organized but because of italian bureaucracy they said you have to do it on getting into the water it was 36 degrees and i don't know what that is in fahrenheit but hot it was a bath basically we got caught in a heat wave so going in there um i had hypothermia before now i have hypothermia it's a heat stroke um we see like swimming in a hot bath basically what is 36 degrees in fahrenheit is that like 90 degrees yeah 96.8 yeah 96 holy shit that's crazy yeah what is there a fucking volcano in there this is it that's nuts so they said it was the hottest month ever recorded in italy i got caught in this it's gotta kill fish no yeah it was i was swimming past fish that had been boiled alive oh my god yeah by the way go back to that picture of him jack jack son that was after i you look like the real live wolverine in that picture it's like if marvel comics if wolverine that's what it looked like you can see the chafing on my shoulder there but no cellulitis thankfully yeah thank god so this is um that was iceland yeah okay yeah and i think what's interesting so why did you why do you think you got cellulitis from the water in scotland they think because it was fresh water right yeah yes that makes sense the swim around iceland of course just as bad it was so bad but equally you just got salt water right but it's it's not doesn't have the bacteria content is exactly it yeah wow yeah of course boy fresh water's nasty yeah it's nasty but especially it well it wasn't 96 degrees but if it was imagine that yeah this show is presented by draft kings think draft kings isn't available in your state think again the cage is set and draft kings keeps the full card at your fingertips in one sports app live in all 50 states download the draft king sports app and use the code rogan new customers can spend five and get 200 in bonuses within 21 days that's 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The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Well, I think what was interesting is from then, trust me, so I got rhabdomyolysis there, so that's just muscle breakdown, basically. You got rhabdo too? Bad, yeah, really bad. Wait a minute, in Iceland or in Scotland? Well, certainly in Iceland, but in Italy, yes. So I had hypothermia and cellulitis in Loch Ness. Fast forward a year, then I got rhabdomyolysis and heat stroke in Italy. What's so strange, though, and I'm aware this sounds a little bit twisted, but as a sports scientist, I'd obviously researched the theory and philosophy of all this, whereas actually subjecting my body to it, I was like, oh, cool. You know, this is what hypothermia feels like. And it was the same with rhabdomyolysis. So basically, sitting here right now, just chilling, you know, we've not been training or anything like that. Ah, creatine kinase, so that's an enzyme that's responsible for muscle breakdown. So when it's in your muscle, basically, in your blood, it says there's been some muscle breakdown. Sitting here right now, it might be about 80. If we had a hard workout, maybe 300. If you run a marathon, 1,000. If you run an ultramarathon, maybe getting up to 4,000, 5,000. At 10,000, your creatine kinase, they are rushing you to a hospital. At that point, they're really worried about your kidney. They're just working overtime to try to filter it out. They said, Ross, yours is at 19,000, which is so weird for a sport where you are suspended in water. It's not even weight-bearing. You shouldn't have this amount of muscle breakdown. So I think, thankfully, my kidneys did an amazing job. Shout out to my kidneys. They filled me out and got me out of the hospital in a few days. But I think what's so strange is that sort of a career then led me to swim around Iceland, where I just knew what rhabdomyolysis, hypothermia, cellulitis, I knew what all of those things were. So as a result, I kind of turned up in Iceland as this kind of bulletproof swimmer who was like, oh, it doesn't matter what it's going to throw at me, I'm going to understand. Oh, my God, dude, that is insane. And then we swam 1,000 miles around Iceland, which was amazing. When you were getting the hypothermia, they say that before people die, they get hot and they want to take their clothes off. Did you have that feeling? Exactly that. But I think part of that was the cellulitis as well because my skin felt like it was on fire. Then equally at the same time, I was shivering with my internal organs. It's a strange position to be in. Did you take into consideration the possibility of cellulitis before you got into that fresh water? Did you know about it? No. You didn't know about it? No, I became an expert afterwards. I would want to research, like, throw it in perplexity. Like, what are the cons? What's the worst thing that can happen here in the water? What are the physical dangers I have to worry about with fresh water versus salt water? Yeah, yeah. Is the lock monster real? I should have researched that. I think what's weird, and I'm glad we started, you know, our catch-up like this because I think so often people go, why do you do it? But I think now looking at the anthropology of us humans, the history of us humans across different cultures, different countries, we've always been doing this idea of self-discipline for self-discovery. Yeah. You know, you look at the marathon monks of Japan, for instance. Over seven years, over a thousand days, we'll almost do a marathon a day. Those guys in Mexico from the Born to Run book? Exactly. Yeah. Taramar or whatever. Yeah. Amazing. They run either barefoot or with small homemade shoes they make from rubber tires and shit. Exactly. They make like sandals out of like retreaded tires. Exactly. I mean, it's weird as well, like even going back further as well. So I ended up doing a documentary ages ago. It's about 20 years ago now. I did Ayahuasca for a week in the Amazon jungle with the Jamanawa tribe. At the end of this week, as part of the initiation into manhood, we basically then, this is such a random story, but they kill the snake and you, you have to bite the tongue out of the snake. Pass. Hard pass. I'd rather be a boy forever. Fuck you. You can't tell me I have to eat a snake's tongue to be a man. Next thing you know, you're going to suck a pig's dick. If you don't suck that pig's dick, you're not a real man. Says who? Says some fucking guy in the jungle who doesn't even have Starlink? Fuck you. Fuck you, buddy. How about you get a pair of Nikes? You don't even have shoes, you fucking idiot. I was young and impressionable. I didn't question. So I did it. I bit the tongue. John bit the tongue. I would have bit the tongue too. I'm just fucking around. I would have definitely bit that tongue. Especially if they brought me in and put face paint on me and shit. That was it. I was caught up in the moment. We all do. Sorry for a sidetrack. I got a sidetrack when I was looking up people biting tongues of snakes. Men get high from Cobra bite on tongue. It says they got high for at least a month. Why'd you hate your life so much? You sign up to get high for a month by getting bit on the tongue by a cobra. You're like, fucking take me away. This job sucks. I just want to be high. We've all done things we regret. Yeah, but that's off the charts. Getting bit on the tongue by a cobra, I'd be like, is there a way? Can I just grab the cobra venom and put it on a fucking Q-tip? Maybe a little better. It's after an astrologer's nightmare advice they did it. Deadly snake bite. Oh, after astrologer's nightmare advice. This might be a different story. Well, that's a different snake too, isn't that? Well, performing a ritual, that was probably what I was doing, yeah. Deadly snake bite, bit a man's tongue after an astrologer told him that performing a ritual with the serpent would stop his nightmares. That is essentially what I did. Bro, where's that guy from? Say that name. Ross, you got it. Go for it. Gobi Chechidu Palonium. That might be accurate. That's probably pretty good. That's pretty goddamn good. That's a real world traveler, ladies and gentlemen. That's how they pronounce things. They roll their R's and shit. Can you put that back up, please? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is crazy. So this is the thing. So he wasn't lying. So this is a different snake. This is the Russell's viper. One of the most common snakes to inflict bites on people in India. During the ritual, the man mimicked the snake's tongue flickering movements, which is when the incredibly deadly snake bit him on the tongue. Yo. After the snake bit the man, the priest attempted to make a cut in his tongue using a knife, which only worsened the pain. Shocker. I thought that would have fixed everything. Yeah. So the Russell's viper usually causes cardiovascular complications, hemostatic abnormalities, renal failure. And is renal failure? What is that? Essentially, I think it's the kidneys, basically, no longer doing their job, shutting down. So internal organs just go- So like rhabdo. Mm. Yeah. Very similar. Very similar. Those who are bitten need treatment immediately. The man was rushed to a nearby medical center. Jesus Christ. He survived. Did that guy even get high? This was not high. This was in the same- Surgery was performed, probably for the cut on his tongue. Yeah. Why the fuck did you let cut your tongue, dude? Also in India, they get high off of this, so it was a side-by-side story there. So this is the same snake or the cobra? Different. Different. Different. This is the top one. This is the cobra. There's loads of people doing it. See, this makes me feel better. But here's my question. It does make me feel better, too. What is the venom? Can't you just rub it on your tongue? Can't you put it on a spatula or some shit? There you go. Oh boy, fella. Why? No. No, I didn't do that. No, no, no. Imagine. But he's making out with the snake. Imagine you do that, and then all of a sudden, you're in front of God, and God's explaining the nature of life in the universe, and it's a continuous cycle, and you've done this a million times before, and you're getting better at it, but you're not done. And when you do get done, you will be God. Bye. That's amazing. I wish I'd have had that experience. Yeah, and it lasts three days. For three days, you're talking to God, and God's coming out of a serpent's tongue. That's amazing. But we did that. I think what was it? As was slightly different to that. So basically, after you had basically just tongued a snake, they turn to you and they go, "Okay, now you have the wisdom of the jungle, but you cannot speak for 24 hours." So everyone's just like that. Okay, we take a vow of silence. And then for the next 24 hours, one of the things that they had us do was climb a tree. So I disappear about four meters up this tree, holding on like that, completely naked, and they just start smacking the bottom of the tree. Naked? And I just get engulfed in fire ants. But I can't make a sound. You can't make a sound. And they said, "If you make a sound, the spirit of the snake will haunt you for the rest of your life. But if you don't make a sound, you'll be blessed with the wisdom of the jungle." How old were you? 21. Yeah, 21. Jesus. So was that the beginning of all this self-torture? I think it might have been. This has turned into therapy. How many times did you get bit by fire ants? Oh, loads. I was covered. Did they get the nuggets? Did they get the whole thing? Yeah. They got all the nuggets. They got everything? Damn, son. Damn, son. But I. But I think it's interesting that when I talk about my swimsuit. What, Jamie? This kills fucking 60,000 people a year in India. What? Oh my God. I would say you're lucky to be alive, clearly, but. Wow. Well, I don't know if it's the same snake. This is from the. Right. But he didn't get a Russell's Viper. He was in the Amazon. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a different animal. Mine seemed friendlier. The Indian thing seems insane, though. I don't know what's going on here. They let it bite their tongue. I guess India. Like, in certain parts of it, life is so hard, they're like, "Fuck it. I'll do anything." You know what I mean? Like, you see some of the scenes online of India and the pollution in the rivers is so. It's so preposterous. You're like, "How did it get this bad?" Where entire rivers are filled with plastic. Like, you don't see any water at all. You just see plastic. And then you see people just dumping their stuff into that river. You're like, "Is there no adults in the room?" Like, how the fuck did this happen? There's no other. There's no other way to do this than to dump all the plastic in the river and everyone's agreement this is crazy like what the fuck give me the snake I'll take that snake let's go I want to talk to God how many times I have to do this forever this is how many times have I done hundreds of thousands oh no I thought I was unique oh my god there's pictures what do you got oh I don't want to show me let's go oh boy necrosis of the tongue oh god these assholes they get their tongue rotted out because that's one of the things that venom does that's why like when when a rattlesnake bites you it's so dangerous it's not just the venom can kill you but it also rots all the fucking tissue around where the bite is I saw this poor guy he got bitten and he had multiple reconstructions of his arm and he documented it all online and this was quite a while ago it's like the early days of the internet but this guy did this documentation of what his arm looked like from the time he got bit by this rattlesnake to like eight surgeries later crazy think DraftKings isn't available in your state think again the cage is set and DraftKings keeps the full card at your fingertips in one sports app live in all 50 states once the cage door closes everybody has a pick DraftKings keeps you close to the pay-per-view card from the first walk out to the final horn make your calls as the card unfolds download the DraftKings sports app and use the code rogan new customers can spend five and get two hundred in bonuses within 21 days that's code rogan spend five get two hundred in bonuses in partnership with DraftKings the crown is yours gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER 1-800-MY-RESET connecticut called 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of boot hill casino in kansas bet tax pass through may apply in illinois 21 and over void in canada event contract trading with DraftKings predictions involves risk of loss availability varies predictions offer void in new york bet to get bonus bets that are available in new york or visit ccpg.org or visit ccpg.org to get bonus bets that expire in seven days trade to get predictions dollars that expire in one year fifty dollars in rewards issued every seven days via click to claim for 21 days one non-withdrawable reward redeemable terms at dkng.co slash offer limited time offer nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability varies by state so this guy's doing it to his tongue oh i think it's it's weird as well this is gonna sound so strange but i i think sometimes that that granted is strange because it's voluntary but again this is a weird example but i was living with the um uh in olignox in siberia with the uh avenki herders out there and i think so often we've become too civilized we we kind of have civilization over survival you know and there's certain things that they do whether it's um they rely on the reindeer they they kill them they have them for their for their milk butter make all sorts out of them but there's one particular story i'm going to apologize in advance now but to manage the amount of reindeer that they have in these huge herds they basically said to us look we need to basically castrate some of the male reindeer because they're fighting so we still need them but we need to castrate them i was like okay that's a bit off key but give me the knife and i'll do whatever you need to do and they said no no no we'll stop you there ross we actually do a form of um semi-castration so we just want to make them slightly more docile so they're not fighting as much they deal with the teeth exactly that yeah they they grab them from behind and they bite their nuts with their teeth that's exactly it yeah so when i was out there they said would you like to perform it i'm not proud of it that's what i did i understand that they have to do that like the way they gelled horses you know they do that with horses as well i understand it but uh i don't want to be a part of that i won't even do that to my dogs like i went to a veterinarian once and she literally cradled my dog johnny cash i had this uh mastiff named john johnny cash he was the best and this lady cradled his balls she goes what are these why are these here i go well those are his testicles and he was born with them and that's how his body produces testosterone and she's like wouldn't it be responsible to have him neutered and i was like why would that be responsible he's not having unnecessary babies why would why do you want his body to not produce testosterone is it because there's a narrative is because you profit off of it like what fortunately for me i had a doctor when i first moved to los angeles a veterinarian who wasn't i mean this guy was an animal lover i mean he was like a dog whisperer i brought my dog in and immediately he was like my dog's best friend and uh i said should i get him fixed he goes no i don't want to be a dog whisperer i want to be a dog and uh i said should i get him fixed he goes no i don't want to be a dog whisperer i brought my dog in and uh i said should i get him fixed he goes no there's no reading he goes you have a fence your dog's not going to hop out and make puppies that aren't going to be taken care of if you're a responsible dog owner don't get your dog fixed i go really i thought it was like for their health so they don't get cancer he goes complete horseshit he goes if dogs get cancer it's most likely probably from really bad food they're eating shitty food just like people get cancer you know not a lot of animals get cancer it's not a lot of well tasmania and devils do but they get cancer from biting each other they're one of the weirdest cases of cancer they have a transmissible cancer like tasmanian devil like the cartoon you ever seen those fuckers in real life yeah yeah they have the craziest sounds anyway my point is don't cut your nuts off your dog if you're a responsible dog owner because they get tired even huberman we were talking about huberman before he did it to his bulldog and he felt bad so he started giving his bulldog testosterone yeah when i caught up with him yeah sharks don't get cancer as well they've got these crazy immune true yeah yeah sharks also they don't have bones it's like we're so distant from them they're so old my god so yeah i went swimming with their great whites of tasmania oh my god what where yeah you'll be you'll be aware of this as well tasmania yeah so outside australia the real ones yeah the real ones those are the ogs yeah they get big they stop growing the females certainly they stop growing in length at a certain point and they just get bigger it's just a submarine with teeth like new zealand rugby players exactly exactly like that exactly like that it is nuts so they they explained to me they basically said they have something called um the ampullae of lorenzini so they're able to pick up electrical impulses is your heart beating quicker you are you twitching do you look like prey oh jesus christ i was down there with some very experienced divers as well we dived and we swam with them on the dive when we went down about 40 feet what was nuts is they immediately knew that i was the weakest link they immediately knew that i was kind of out of my depth when it came to diving and they all just started swimming towards me like oh and they're just going ross ross i'm not saying square up to it but please stop breathing so heavy and acting like prey so in that moment it was just strange how we had a conversation but it was obviously non-verbal and across species that it was looking at me came straight up to me i sort of tried not to again i'm not saying i squared up to it but kind of was like can i help you and then it just went all right you're okay and well you didn't panic no and if you panicked that might have been a little bit more of a in the end yeah but just the way that they just like i said described that ampullae of lorenzini that they are just looking at me there is this it's a it's apex predator with just like thousands of years and it's downloading data on me and it just knew 10 of us down there and it knew that i was the weakest link geez yeah great it's probably so obvious right those other guys are so comfortable in the water they've done it a million times probably have a very low heart rate down there it's a novel experience for you and they're sharks exactly that exactly my good friend adam green tree one of his buddies back home in australia got his head bit off by a shark he was he was uh spearfishing and he came out of a thing like like a crevice or something in the reef and a shark just took it didn't even see it coming just didn't even see it coming just popped out and the shark saw something that looked like food that was coming out of the reef because they're you know they're they're in the reefs looking for all sorts of whatever they eat whatever fish fuck up and you know or in the wrong place the wrong time they're so damn scary because they're ambush predators as well yeah the tiger sharks off bahamas swimming with them and so often it's just enough to look at them as long as they can see your eyes they go okay you've seen me but the amount of time sometimes when we were down there like ross have your head on a swivel because they were just calming up behind me and had i have not turned around a hundred percent i wouldn't be speaking to you now oh yeah dude in hawaii they're a real problem man they're a real problem for the surfers you know when you're in the water you're a real problem for the surfers you know whenever you hear about someone getting got it's a tiger shark there's a crazy video we played on here once this guy he's uh he's in a kayak and he's out in the middle of the ocean fishing and a tiger shark just slams into his kayak and you see its mouth wide open this big fucking head and it knocks the kayak sideways it's terrifying and he's screaming tiger shark tiger shark just here it is watch this watch this watch the speed of them watch this oh no bro that fuck all that that that was a tiger yes yeah fuck all that look at this thing launch up imagine if he was in an inflatable if he was in an inflatable that's a wrap you just got your shit popped by a tiger and now you're floating a mile offshore whatever the fuck he is oh it's the same like bull sharks as well though bull sharks are just angry oh yeah experts like friends of mine have just said like they will just come over to you with with a white shark they're they're curious their taste buds are in their throats they'll come over nip you and they're just like oh sorry i didn't realize you weren't a seal the only problem is you're bleeding out whereas a bull shark they'll just be like i'm just in a bad mood i'm just gonna come over and just yeah exactly i talked to this dude in florida he said he will not spearfish anymore he said they live in central like central florida he said when you're off the reefs he said it's so fucking dangerous he's like the bull sharks are all over the place now yeah because everybody's being stopped the shark fin soup fucking serve it up okay serve up monster dick soup it should be everywhere what the fuck are you talking about you want to eat beautiful things like cows that are sweet and kind you want to eat veal but you won't eat monsters you should be eating monsters monsters should be on every menu if you can get fucking veal scallopini an italian restaurant you should be able to get monster dick soup they should sell that shit everywhere they should become our food fuck them fuck sharks but further to that point i would say that then i was completely out of my doubt i've never felt more vulnerable in that moment the other the only other time i felt vulnerable was um i broke the record for the world's longest non-stop river swim so it was 510 kilometers uh 60 hours all the way down the yukon river we hit these uh the five finger rapids at one point uh i basically kind of just got thrown against rocks uh cut up pretty bad so where does this start in the yukon yeah yes it was a white horse to dawson i hope i've got that the right way around yeah so you're are you in bc like where are you in in what is yukon it's alaska no no no uh canada canada but it goes to alaska yeah yeah if you continue with the yukon river it will eventually go to so does it come down what part of canada does it come through oh that's a good question so it's cold as fuck though it's my point it's freezing yeah and what time are you going there we went like oh here it goes oh amazing yeah we went july so the northwest territory so that's what they call it right yeah is that what they call it yeah and we just it was it's just the wild wild west out there and i we we took off like i said we started um basically what was so so strange is for the i got thrown against these white water rapids got hit on the rocks and that's why the back of my legs are still cut up now and then from that the rules are no one can touch you you can't touch the boat so i'm like guys i can't stop so i just pull my leg out the water like this and as i do blood is just dripping out the end of my wetsuit literally like clockwork as soon as that happened bears wolves everything i said what's happening and they said ross they can smell the blood you're like an ice cream van you're just advertising yourself to all the wildlife and they're like now in the yukon really yeah again now the black bears fine as you know they're they're skittish and it was so for me strange englishman first time dealing with bears the black bears were looking just like what are you i don't know a bit skittish the brown bears no they look at you very different so they look right through you so different they're just almost like sitting there just kind of look at and we had like i said a boat full of people we had protection on there and stuff but it just didn't care it was it was i was so aware it was the brown bear i would have no as an englishman who has no experience that i've done it just scarily big for me yeah it was big yeah and i just carried on swimming it was interesting how it was almost like it was looking going you're not a salmon but you're not a bear i don't know i wonder if you're hungry and i just i carry on so i turned to the guys i said guys am i okay am i safe shall i keep swimming thankfully one of the team turned around it wasn't even a gun it was like a cannon and they said ross don't worry if it gets too close to you it'll end up in my freezer i was like right that's what i wanted to hear we just carried on yeah i know you know um statistically you're more likely to get killed by a black bear well no that's not correct statistically when a black bear attacks you it's more likely in predation whereas when a brown bear attacks you it's more likely surprised and it's defending itself or it's a mother with her cubs which is the most dangerous that's interesting just like in real life you fuck with the ladies kids like you fuck with if you fuck with a grizzly bear and you come near its kids they they are terrifying they run at you full clip most of the times the dudes get attacked and killed that's that's where you fucked up you run into a 700 pound mama with her babies and a a jaw that could just crush your head like a candy bar like fuck you like you you can't and you can't run away from her and you can't climb up a tree you can't do shit and you just zigged when you should have zagged and you got too close to her kids and she doesn't want to take any chances so you just became food yeah what was what was kind of strange that's kind of it it was so weird going from the yukon and then a year later we did the iceland swim and and there were some of these old uh sort of modern day viking chiefs who basically were explaining about the concept of a berserker as well berserker obviously just meaning bear shirt saying that these berserkers these ancient nordic warriors would so often just try to embody the spirit of the animal and there was even the words which are it's called bear shirts that's what berserker means yeah bear pelt bear shirt basically that's what berserker means wow you learn something new every day jamie so they would embody literally the spirit of the animal like i said there was almost from berserkers as well there were almost like subcategories as well so there were the i hope i'm pronouncing it right oof huffner which were the wolf warriors and they were odin's chosen warriors there there's stories of them just running into battle no armor basically naked painted biting down onto their shield as well and howling into the wind you know they were also doing mushrooms i know right yeah that was that was one of the things about those fellows berserker comes from the old norse berserker most likely meaning bear shirt a warrior wearing a bear skin exact etymology is disputed an alternative interpretation is bear shirt referring to fighting without armor in plain english it means a frenzied warrior but i guess you have to be a pretty frenzied warrior to kill a fucking bear back then you know there was no rifle so you had to do it in an intimate fashion if you're gonna if you're gonna kill a brown bear you're gonna kill especially a male the ones in if you get to anywhere where the salmon live they get gigantic which brought me to this terrible idea that i have that i really shouldn't put out there in the universe but if you wanted to have like the ultimate really fucking dangerous jackass stunt you would put these guys in salmon suits and make them swim through when those bears are like catching those salmon that are going up the waterfall oh and those rivers where there's like nine ten of them i would watch it yeah put put the jackass guys i shouldn't have said it i shouldn't have said it because someone's gonna take i could see steve-o calling his fucking costume designer right now it's so true but it was so interesting as well because again swimming around iceland you hear stories of berserkers you know the famous one of stamford bridge no oh this was an amazing story 1066 i believe when the norwegians were invading england stamford bridge basically the most important thing and as they were there was just this one lone berserker who just stood on the bridge with a massive axe and was just taking down just soldier after soldier they just wave after wave and took them down eventually it was somebody who actually went under the bridge and managed to stab him from underneath but it was known as the berserker of stamford bridge stab him from under the bridge that's how they got him yeah eventually but he was just like those guys in iceland that win those strongman competitions just imagine one of those guys with a battle axe you know imagine like the mountain from game of thrones with a giant wood and steel wood and iron fucking huge shield in front of them and an enormous battle axe that you couldn't even pick up and he's just hacking through people and everyone's watching their friends die so they're all in a panic and he's covered in blood and he's 400 pounds it's so true and i think even as well i mean i'm a huge fan of gunner nelson as well you know you look at the the history of just icelandic athletes warriors and it's nuts yeah dude gunner beat jeff monson in an absolute contest in abu dhabi when gunner gunner fought in the ufc i only think he's fought as a welterweight correct i think he's only fought at 170 jeff monson's like 250 do you know jeff monson is yeah of course okay he's a muscle he's like a he's just muscle his whole fucking body like his his his shoulders start at his the top of his head he's fucking enormous and monson and the him they went into an absolute which is there's no weight classes in grappling they still allow that and he beat him which is fucking insane that is crazy but it traces back to their culture as well this is one thing that i i loved when swimming around iceland that for instance um you know the story of odin and ragnarok do you know yes at the end where you know spoiler alert for those listening odin knew he was going to die in ragnarok that the norse apocalypse but ran in anyway uh he got uh eaten by a giant wolf but this is what i loved that the icelandic and nordic folklore is like look you can't control fate everybody believed that you were destined that's already written for you but it's how you can control your attitude towards it and i think that's the thing that i've certainly found from icelandic culture that it doesn't matter if you are gunna nelson going up against 250 batman so you will just run into battle anyway yeah you know you that is your fate but it's choosing your attitude towards it this episode is brought to you by zip recruiter have you listened to the radio lately or maybe you've been catching up on your favorite sports podcast or even 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cage door closes everybody has a pick draft kings keeps you close to the pay-per-view card from the first walkout to the final horn make your calls as the card unfolds whether you're following the main event or every matchup on the card draft kings keeps the excitement all in one place download the draft king sports app and use code rogan new draft kings customers can spend five and get 200 in bonuses paid within 21 days that is code rogan in partnership with draft kings the crown is yours event trading offered by draft kings predictions a cftc registered futures commission merchant trading involves risk of loss market availability varies eligibility restrictions apply 50 every seven days via click to claim issued in non-withdrawable predictions dollars that expire in one year terms at dkng.co slash predictions promo limited time offer nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and or free-to-play sports contest availability varies by state yeah yeah well that's very attractive to people most most men they wish they could be like that damn it's true that's why i mean how many goddamn viking shows have there been there's so many viking shows and viking move me have you seen the north men that movie yeah yeah amazing yeah and quite accurate apparently as well yeah i bet it's accurate well except for the supernatural shit but again mushrooms yeah yeah yeah fuck all the time on psilocybin who knows what they were saying and they you know they that's what's interesting is because like people assume that mushrooms make you peaceful that's why the whole thing's so confusing because they really for most people they make you like more connected to everyone around you but possibly but it's unproven the idea is that berserkers ate mushrooms before battles a popular theory not an established historical fact there's no solid archaeological or textual evidence demonstrating drug use okay so what is the what is the oh it's a amanita pascaria but i've heard uh it also be psilocybin i've heard that being proposed you know it's in that that viking show i think they could put that back up please i think in the viking show they they talk about us or it looks like they're eating psilocybin it doesn't look like amanita mascara amanita mascara is like really obvious it's a bright red with white dots on it it looks like santa claus um the red one with the white spots its effects don't nearly explain the battle fury it can cause delirium twitching drowsiness while violent aggression isn't typical yeah even the delirium twitching and drowsiness the problem with this explanation is it's not really known what amanita mascaria does it's not like a it's not a normal psychedelic and it also doesn't seem to be as effective as it was at one point in time so the theory is like terence mckenna's theory was that it's it's very variable like a lot of things are like peppers are very variable to in genetics region and maybe even seasonally that you had to like get these mushrooms from you and then you had to get them from you and then you had to get them from you and then you had to get them from you and then you had to get them from you and then you had to get them from a very specific area you just like like like you want cuban cigars there's like some mushrooms in a very specific area that contained a much more potent version of whatever they do to you you know but it's unclear the amanita mascara is uncle like psilocybin is very clear like no one eats that and goes oh i don't see it like you eat the sill but amanita mascara it it varies a lot i've heard people having insane experiences on it and i myself tried it and it was almost nothing did very little it made you feel weird but you're so right as well that mixed with certainly being out in iceland when you hear stories of elves trolls you know and then when you're out there like i said i started the swim i had a blot ceremony basically just means that they blessed my journey as i swam around iceland and at the start they were talking about you know the different realms of iceland as well um do you know the story about the the different guardians of iceland what are the different guardians so basically the story goes that um back in the day there was a foreign king who wanted to invade and he was like oh i'm gonna go to iceland and i'm gonna go to iceland so he sent this sorcerer disguised as a whale to see where they could attack from went over to the west coast there was a huge bull that is a representative of strength and power said you can't attack there went around to the north coast over the north coast huge eagle that represents vision can see for miles it's like right you can't attack their east coast uh dragon realm of the dragon basic dragons love fast flowing water so there's loads of waterfalls that east icelandic current guns down there and then on the south coast there was a massive giant as well upon hearing this at the start during the blot ceremony i was like oh my god i'm gonna go to iceland oh okay that's a cool story you get around the top of iceland and all of a sudden birds are just coming down dive bombing me like you get over to the east coast and you see some of the caves and the waterfalls and i'm like oh for sure if you were on mushrooms i can 100 believe this yeah it's amazing and even now as well if you're in iceland and you see a road that is just like inexplicably curved and goes around i'm like what what's happening there that that road makes no sense it should just be going straight and with a completely straight face a lot of locals will say that's going through the elves sacred land we had to build around it and i'll say what do you mean and they said we were trying to build a road and then inexplicably the machines broke down the bulldozer broke down we got some more in so there's a lot of people out there who still believe in that and i'm like yeah on mushrooms i couldn't believe it well think about do you know the popular theory there's a popular theory that consciousness is rendered or rather reality is much like a computer and a 3d game engine renders a game so like if you're playing a game like say if you're playing halo it doesn't have to register it doesn't have to render all these maps that you're not in it's only rendering the map that you're in right right so as you go into the new maps then it starts to render it so there's legitimate physicists that are entertaining the possibility that reality is not concrete and that reality is actually rendered by consciousness and here's my thought i don't know if this is accurate i don't know if they're right i don't know if they're wrong it's weird and it makes sense but reality doesn't make sense neither does the fact the universe is infinite so let's put all that aside and god made us all in his image great let's put that aside and just stop and think about what is real what is consciousness capable of rendering when it has access to science access to all these different university courses you can take on biology and evolution and the nature of the world and what causes the tide and what makes thunderstorms happen and all these different things that we know now now imagine if those things didn't exist and all you have is just super hyper focused on nature primitive people who have gods as an explanation for everything and just super focused on nature primitive people who have gods as an explanation for everything and like if if consciousness really does render reality then well then the elves are real right because then because if you've done enough mushrooms you have encountered an entity you've encountered something that doesn't seem like you're making it up it seems like it's there all the time but you don't have access to it and then all of a sudden you're in front of it and if you're in a world where there's no explanations for anything because no one knows how to read okay you might you have a bunch of fucking weird grunts for your language you have extra consonants and shit and all your words like this is and they're warrior people and you're on mushrooms and you're respecting the elf land so much so you move your road around 100 but i that sounds better than today i agree i agree i love what you said there as well because i remember at the start of my swim i did a training swim i'm toweling down afterwards getting out of my wetsuit and this like old old guy old fisherman just comes out of nowhere first thing he says to me under the northern lights i'm looking up they're amazing they've just illuminated the entire sky i'm like wow looking up and he just comes over and just whispers in my ear and he just said they're probably deciding if you live or die and i went oh excuse me oh boy i'm sorry this asshole keeps swimming for 60 hours at a time he wants to die they probably saw right through you this guy's crazy i said i'm sorry i'm saying is they're probably deciding if you live or die i said you please you're gonna have to explain he said that we believe that in an ancient nordic folklore that basically the northern lights are the valkyries odin's female warriors and that is their shimmering shields and their swords as they're riding through the sky looking down at the fallen to see who makes it back to valhalla to dine with odin and i was again at the time i was like oh that's a bit off key but then a little funny way to describe it 112 days later we swim obviously through the uh through the summer so there's less chance to see the northern lights because you get 24 hours of daylight and then right at the very end on the very very very last swim northern lights come up again it was weird and i am on my back just like if there's the valkyries if odin is listening thank you so much well if you again if you live back then you would think that your journey is complete and so at the end of the video game you get to see some cool monsters montage of scenes and beautiful sights and i mean that's what happens in a movie like this is the end of the movie yeah yeah you did it that's what's weird about reality like this idea that consciousness is rendering reality again i really don't understand it i don't know if it's i don't even know if it makes sense oh there we go yeah in iceland respect the elves or else yeah i'm respecting the fuck out of them okay this rock they won't move i'm not touching that rock the elves don't want to move yeah i think there - Are they real, dude? - 100%. - I think they're real, I think you just can't see them normally. It said news crews tried to film the rock and every time they tried to film it, like, it wouldn't record. Good. Good. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fake news. Fake news. Don't film the rock. Yeah, the real news is their fucking elves are real. They moved the road. Even TV crews say their cameras failed to record anything when pointed at the rock. I bet I'd go over there and record the shit out of it with my iPhone. Fuck you. How's there a picture of it? Fuck off. You got a guy working for you that's an asshole. He's probably got his tongue bit by a cobra two days ago. The guy's tripping balls. Fuck off. That might have been a different rock. It's just fun. It's fun. Like, whoever the guy was saying they're deciding whether you live or die, he's having fun. It's a good time. Who was that guy? He was just an old fisherman. Yeah, that old fisherman was fucking with this cocky jack British guy. He's looking at you like, fuck you and your six pack. The elves are gonna kill you. He could have been Odin. He's fucking with you. That guy was fucking with you. 100%. Odin describes it. He disguises himself as an old man. Or, he's an asshole. He's an old fisherman. He's fucking drunk every night. He's tired of life. He sees this beautiful young Englishman with a fucking manly beard and a six pack, just like a jack, ready to swim for days. He's like, fuck you. He wanted you to be nervous. He's like, this fucking dork. Fuck him. 80%. In the survey, over 80% of the respondents refused to deny the existence of elves. Wow. And 8% were certain they existed. Well, those guys are dangerous. The 8% are certain. Those are dangerous people. Those are religious fanatics. Put them back up, please. Those guys, they can't be trusted. How the fuck do you know? It's all about respect for nature, which is something Icelanders know is very much alive. I agree with that. Said Gunnall. What an Iceland name. Guy's name is Gunnall. But when your house can be destroyed by an earthquake, when you can be blown over by the wind, when boiling water from your taps tells you there's lava not far beneath your feet, then you don't mess with nature. Holy shit. They get boiling water from their taps sometimes? Yeah. What the fuck, man? Can you imagine going to sleep? You know that there's so much lava underneath your house that water is boiling coming out of your tap. You're like, goodnight. No deal. I wonder what's on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. You fucking sit there staring at Kim Kardashian and laughing. No way. Caitlyn Jenner is on TV. Oh, they're all together again. You want this fucking lava under your feet? But that's Icelandic people. They're just hard as nails. I said this. It's like, it's just a country that's trying to kill you. When we were there actually, at the very end, so I basically, I made it back by three days for the birth of my first child. Congratulations. Thank you so much. That's awesome. That's a life changer, huh? It was amazing. Yeah, it was. But at the end, for instance, so my girlfriend, she's amazing. We've been together for 13 years. And the basically, the University of Iceland said, look, if you can collect eDNA samples, environmental DNA samples around the coast of Iceland, we can track biodiversity in a level of detail we've never seen before. So we had them on board. We had sponsors on board. We had a boat on board. And then we found out we were pregnant. So I was like, oh. In America, we frown upon that we are pregnant. Oh, really? We frown upon that. She's pregnant? Yeah, she's pregnant. I'm pregnant. You definitely are pregnant. She's pregnant. And when I say in America, I mean me. I frown upon that kind of talk. She's pregnant. Yeah. She's amazing. She just said, look, you know, go, but you need to make it back. So we had that hard deadline. That's a good thing to say. You need to live. You need to survive. You're about to have a baby. Don't swim for 60 days, you fucking asshole. You have responsibilities. I know. But I think, and I've heard you talk about, you know, fatherhood and stuff. It invoked something in me, a level of motivation that I've never experienced before. It was just at the end. So we got caught in a hurricane. Erin was coming through the Atlantic. So that was over the East Coast. We had 100 miles to finish. And in Grindavik, there was a volcano going off that had poisonous gas. We couldn't get too close to that as well. Inhale it, you're dead. And then here, there was one of Europe's largest glaciers that just sent shards of ice as big as this table. And at night, you just couldn't see it. You're just hitting them. Oh, my God. The team was like, look, Ross, I'm so sorry. We're going to be here for two weeks. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm so sorry. I need to get back. And it was that form of motivation at the end, just knowing you had that hard deadline. Jellyfish coming off my face, tongue falling off from saltwater exposure. It didn't matter. I was like, I'm not not being back for the birth of my son. And I made it back, like I said, by three days. Wow. Yeah. But it got nuts. Well, it's a very primal feeling. It ignites something in you that does not exist in people that don't have children. I don't think. I don't think. I mean, I am very careful about this. I do not think you have to have children. I don't like to shame people that don't want to have kids. I don't like shame people, people who never had kids. I don't think it's I think you could be a wonderful person and contribute to the world without children. But I could just say for me, it changed who I am. It changed. It changed me in a very profound way. And I always bring up this Dave Chappelle quote. So I apologize to people who've heard it before. But he said something very profound once in the parking lot of the comedy store. He said, not only did having children change the amount of love that I have. He goes, it changed my capacity for love. I love that. Yeah. And it did that for me. And it also did for me this other very profound thing. It made me stop looking at people as a static thing. If I met a guy and he's 40 and he's an asshole, I'm like, fuck that guy's a fucking asshole. I don't think that way anymore. Now, I mean, sometimes I do. If I'm short-tempered, if I'm in a bad mood, if I'm in a rush, under stress, I can have slips. I'm not perfect at this. But when I'm at peace, I look at that guy as a baby. That's a baby. That's someone's little boy and shit didn't go well for him. There was a series of either bad decisions or bad experiences or bad parenting or bad judgment or bad luck. And now here he is. Just a fucking mess. And that's why I have a hard time seeing homeless people. It genuinely bothers me. I never see homeless people and I go, fuck that guy. I'll go fuck that guy if they're like getting close to my kids and they're being aggressive and they're schizophrenic. But most of the time, I think that was somebody's baby. That's somebody's baby. I'm exactly the same. It completely changes. It changes your biochemistry. I was talking to Huberman about this and I really, hormonally, I felt, I was always a bit selfish, a bit single-minded in my swims and stuff. As soon as he arrived, I was like, that's it. Everything changes. It was crazy. I think as well, it was strange for me because I lost my dad as well four years ago and I was becoming a dad myself. So the Iceland swim sort of existed in this strange world between the two. And that was like really, really sort of big for me. I even said, you know, in my new book, I talk about how it's kind of this idea that the swim was almost a tribute to everything that my dad had taught me, but equally a letter to my future son. And I hope that they look at that and go, okay, yeah. All the values and everything that I was taught. Well, just living the way you live, just by example, would be an insane role model for your kid. I mean, you're a very unusual person. Your will is very odd. You know, the ability to do those kind of things, I respect greatly. I don't want to do it. I think it's retarded. But I respect it. I agree. I respect it greatly. You know, I'm good friends with Cameron Haynes and, you know, he runs a lot of these like really insane 200, 300 mile races. And I respect it. I don't think it's good for you, but I get what he's doing. He's trying to find out where his breaking point is. You know, he's trying to push himself to his breaking point. That is exactly it. And I admire that greatly because that is a noble quest. Whether or not you think it's smart, I don't. I don't think it's smart. But I don't want to do it. But it is a noble quest. It is an absolutely noble quest. And he is different than me. We are all different. And everyone has this thing in their head that they need to sort out. And sometimes the way you sort it out is by doing something that's fucking insanely hard to find out who you really are. And I think, I like to do it a little bit every day. That's my method. My method is do a little bit every day. When I say a little bit, like a couple hours. That's what I like. A couple hours of torture every day. Find out who I am. And when I take a few days off, I get nervous. I get confused. Who am I? I don't know. I don't know if I can do this anymore. You know what I mean? You know those feelings? I'm sure you even get those. As many times as you take a few weeks off working out and you start working out again, you're like, oh my god, am I really going to put myself through this again? It's so true. Right? Am I really going to go swim for six days again? What the fuck is wrong with me? You know? It's so true. But I was chatting to a Uber member about this because I was just like, I'm so aware that my dopamine system probably works a little bit differently. You know, in that if someone says, oh, let's go do a 24-hour swim. I go, meh. And then they go, oh, three days past bears. I'm like, okay, hold my beer. I'm in. And I think that's what's so weird. But I know you and Uberman spoke about with your anterior mid-singulate cortex. And that's the only way that I can actually. For me, it was so interesting chatting to him because in my head, when your tongue is falling off or you're just chafing cellulitis, I think of it like weighing scales. And you kind of got grit or quit pain and purpose. And at any point, the anterior mid-singulate cortex, that part of your brain is just weighing them up. And for me, you just need. As much pain as it is, you just need to outweigh it with enough purpose. If you do that, you'll continue. If not. And I think it's so interesting. I mean, I love the UFC. There are certain fighters who, if you did a scan, 100% their anterior mid-singulate cortex would just be like this. 100%. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to Shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. That means keeping the phone you already have, ditching your overpriced phone bill, and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at Visible.com. The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGAN. Terms apply. See Visible.com for plan features and network management details. I was going to bring this up. I was going to bring this up earlier. One of the fighters got pulled from a car a few years back. I can't remember when, but it was because of exactly what you were talking about, like creatine levels in his blood. And I was like, what? I was confused at the time. I didn't know what that meant. I was like, creatine? What does that mean? He took too much creatine? Like, no, his body is so broken down from training, it's not safe for him to fight. I'm like, how is that possible? Like, how does somebody show up at the actual fight day blown out? Junior Dos Santos, fighting is worth the health risk because it's everything to me. Right. Was it? Was it Junior? Wow. He got pulled from a fight? It said CK down here. Yeah. So I think, there you go, rhabdomyolysis breaking down. Muscle fiber, treatable. Oh, but I don't think that he got pulled from the fight. I think this is just what happened to him in that fight. So that fight. So he had two fights. Well, he had three fights with Cain Velasquez. Cain Velasquez has the greatest cardio of any heavyweight. They used to call him Cardio Cain. It was a freaky gift that he had. And it was also his understanding of management of cardio was incredible. He never threw anything full blast. Everything was like 60, 70%, but with perfect technique. And he would just never get tired. Like, never get tired. And the first fight, Junior Dos Santos caught him with a big right hand and knocked him out. It was on Fox. It was a big deal. Then they have this rematch. And the rematch, Cain's healthy. The first fight he went into with a blown out knee and his knee wrapped up. He fucked up his meniscus, like in training. And then in the second fight, he's fully healthy. And he mauls Junior Dos Santos. And it's a war. It's a five-round crazy war where it looks like they're both going to— well, it looks like Junior's going to die. It looks like he's going to die. And then he does it again in the second fight. They have a third fight, rather. Second rematch. The second rematch, the same sort of result. Cain just mauls him. Like, Cain was just—Cain was on a completely different level to everybody else when it came to cardio. Guys would get this 1,000-yard stare. Second round, like, I can't do this for five rounds. I can't keep this guy off me. It's impossible. And so if he got rhabdo from that fight, I would not be surprised. I bet a lot of fighters get rhabdo after the fights. Because some of those fights, they're on death's fucking door. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're on death's door. I think one of the worst has got to be Lawler-McDonald, right? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. One of the craziest life-or-death fights in the history of the sport. And they stared each other down in the final round. How about they're staring each other down and blood is pouring out of both of their faces? Robbie's lip is split halfway open. The whole thing was—the end of it when I was interviewing him, half of his lip is, like, open like a slice of pie. It's fucking insane. And he's saying how he's never going to quit. I'm going to keep going and keep going, and I'm never going to stop. And I was like, holy shit. This guy just got through five rounds of the most violent shit ever. Look at the two of them just staring each other down. It was unbelievable. Like, life or death. Like, they got to the death's door. And Rory, when he collapsed, it was like his nose had been shattered, and the pain was just—overwhelmed his brain. His body shut off, and he just collapsed. He couldn't take it anymore. It was crazy, too. Yeah. When they're staring at each other before the final round, like, motherfucker. Is that the worst? Look at Robbie, screaming in the crowd with his arms up. So what I think is going on there, there's a few things. I think there's, like, stress-induced analgesia, the way that, like, an injured animal will bite off its arm to get out of a trap. That must be going on. So just pain suppression, norepinephrine, everything. There's also some fucking genetics. Robbie Law has got some caveman genes, son. He's got some warrior genes. That dude, that's in his DNA. I've been watching that kid fight since he was 20 years old. He's a fucking savage. Like, a savage to the core. One of the greatest knockouts in the history of the sport happened when Robbie was fighting up a division. So he was fighting this guy, Melvin Manhoof. And Melvin Manhoof is a kickboxer, a very high-level kickboxer, who came out of Mike's Gym in Amsterdam. Mike's Gym in Amsterdam is legendary. Produced Badr Hari. There's, like, a series of, like, wicked kickboxers came out of Mike's Gym. And Melvin Manhoof sort of epitomized that style. They were hyped. They were hyper-aggressive. And Melvin is built like you. Like, look at him. So Melvin, in this fight, Melvin is chewing up Robbie's legs. He keeps leg-kicking him. I mean, he's punishing his legs. Melvin was so fast and so powerful. And they get in the exchange, and boom, Robbie hits him with one punch and knocks him out. And he's just out cold. Like, look at the zoom in on his face. He's in the shadow realm right now. But if you go to earlier in the fight, like, what Melvin was doing to him, it was a crazy comeback. But go earlier in the fight. Melvin is all over him. I mean, he's so dangerous and so fast. Like, Melvin was putting him in really bad spots. He kept rocking him. And when you talk about, like, high-level kickboxers, Melvin was elite. Like, perfect technique, ridiculous power and athleticism, and just a warrior spirit. Just attack you. He would come out for his fights with a dog collar on. But he would have, like, a spiked dog collar. And be dancing, getting ready for his fights. Terrifying human being. He's scary. But I think going back to the Berserker, there's such a parallel between him and Alex Pereira. You know, that idea, like, with the Jaguar style. Yeah. Embodying the spirit of an animal. I mean, I don't know about Melvin. I would be terrified if I was in the cage and I saw Pereira walking out. Well, do you know the team, the Fighting Nerds? Of course. Yeah. So the head dude, I'm blanking on his name. But I was just watching this video about. Carlos Prates, who is one of my all-time favorites right now in the UFC, in the welterweight division. And one of the things they were talking about is how he has his fighters mimic animals. And he studies animals and animals fighting to the death online. And that it's all about controlling the space. Like, they gave an example of the mongoose and the cobra. And it's not that the mongoose is faster than the cobra or more deadly than the cobra. It's that mongoose is a master of controlling space. The mongoose. The mongoose is, like, fainting. Like, as he's coming into the cobra, he's, like, moving in a little bit. Yeah, Pablo. Pablo is a brilliant guy. And he's the one. I mean, they really are nerds. Like, they really do, like, data analytics. And they study moves that work and moves that don't work. And what happens at what percentage of time. Like, he's got a very data-driven approach to MMA training. But also, like, super open-minded. Because he's, like, considering animal movements. That's amazing. Yeah. And the things that he was talking about was mongooses and cobras. And they had. I'll give you this example. And it shows, like, these mongooses, they're essentially, like, juking with the cobra. They're fainting. They're trying to get the cobra to react. And they move back when the cobra reacts. And they. But they're trying to draw this cobra in and get a sense of what the cobra's distance is. That's crazy. And all of his fighters, particularly Carlos, is a master at controlling distance. He's always pressing forward. And then when you come at him, he slides away. And he's pressing forward. And it's always. You're always in danger. You're constantly in danger. So you're always, like, on the defensive. And you're trying to get some offense. And it doesn't work. And then you're back on the defense. Masterful. That's fascinating. Yeah. I think it's almost lost. It was the 17th century writer, English writer, wasn't it? Samuel Johnson, who said, And I think so often we've lost that. Certainly for me when swimming, in many ways, I was very much inspired by the shark. You know, when I was swimming very much like the berserker, the bear. And I think some of the best athletes, like I said, like Pereira and his Jaguar style. You know, both feet on the floor, so constantly generating power. But, yeah, Samuel Johnson, become a beast to get rid of the pain of being a man. Love that quote. That's a great quote. And very applicable. Definitely. But for most people, like, the journey, the path is just too daunting. Just the idea of it is just, oh, what am I going to do? I'm going to start out a beginner and just get humiliated all the time? Fuck that. It's just, like, doesn't seem fun at all. You know? And they don't want to do it. And so then they'll dismiss it and talk about it. And then it becomes toxic masculinity, which is adorable. That one's adorable. I think also what I found so interesting is, again, I was chatting to Hoobin about this, but the different parts of the brain. So your ventral striatum, the part of the brain that's almost involved in expectation, reward, and reality. So to use a fighting example, when things are going well for a fighter, what's happening? The ventral striatum is going, okay, I've done this and that, and I'm winning. It's prime. I'm a McGregor. It's prime Anderson Silva. It's modern-day Ilya Topura. You know, that everything's going well. But as soon as that goes wrong, as something goes wrong, all of a sudden dopamine plummets, ventral striatum goes, okay, that behavior is now not working. And I think it's been so interesting seeing fighters, the same way that when I'm swimming, I can get caught in a countercurrent. There's been times where I swim and they go, Ross, you've got to swim for four hours to swim out of this massive whirlpool. I swim for four hours, head down, head down like that. My alarm goes off. I look at my watch. I go, guys, how far have we swum? And they go, Ross, you've been swimming on the same spot. You've not moved. You've just been swimming on the same spot for four hours. And I think it's interesting that it's not just losing. It's actually like the brain, the biochemistry just implodes. And I think you kind of saw that. Like I said, I think. What happened in your mind when you found that you were in the same spot for four hours? I mean, it's like I said, it's not just a loss. Understanding the neuroscience of it, basically the ventral striatum going, this isn't working. Dopamine is no longer released. All of a sudden, it is just like a dark biochemical clash. And when you understand that, you can start to try to process out of it. How'd you get out of that? I'm glad you asked. There's another part of the brain as well called the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex. And that's involved in strategy. So essentially, when you are completely losing, ventral striatum goes, this isn't working. So when I'm swimming, tongue's falling off, neck's chafing, cellulitis, ventral striatum, this is not working. And then you've got two options. Again, this is an oversimplification. But in my head, this is how I basically map it out. Anterior midsingular cortex. Grit or quit, pain and purpose, discipline. You just do it because you said you were going to do it. You just grit your teeth and get through it. Or dorsolateral prefrontal cortex over here, which is more strategy. And sometimes you can just completely reframe what you're doing. You can change technique and everything as well when you're swimming. But sometimes just reframing that suffering. You know, a great man said, be the hero of your own movie. And I think looking at the hero's journey as well, I think that's so interesting. Where Joseph Campbell talks about the idea of just kind of the hero. Slaying your dragon in the most cave battling. So I think sometimes that strategy is just reframing your suffering when you're constantly losing. And how long did it take you to get out of that whirlpool? I think we were there for most of that day. Most of that day. And then with the tide. Because basically over the top of Iceland, it's like a giant bay. So you get counter currents, whirlpools. And eventually with everything that's happening, you'll eventually be able to swim out of it. Eventually. Yeah. Yeah, but you can. Yeah. Jamie's dead. I'm dead too, bitch. I'm dead too, bitch. How much can you swim? Can you swim good? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, what do you mean? What's the challenge? I mean, like in a fucking whirlpool in the middle of the ocean, dog. It's 20 degrees out. I could probably handle it. I don't know how strong of a runner, too. I've never been tested. I'd be dead in 15 minutes. 15 minutes, I'm underwater. In the ocean. I could probably save someone. You could save someone? Depending on the waves. You know who saved somebody? Greg Fitzsimmons. Did you ever hear that story? Yeah. Didn't he tell it on the podcast? Yeah. I wouldn't go out, though. I wouldn't test myself. Some lady was on vacation. Some lady was drowning. He jumped in the water and rescued her. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, she was offshore, and I guess the riptide caught her. And Greg risked his fucking life, went out there and grabbed her and helped her. What a legend. Legend. I was like, damn, dude. I'm like, did you think at one point? Because his family was there, too. He was on vacation. I was like, do you think that maybe you wouldn't be able to make it back? Did you worry about that? He's like, yeah. Because it's crazy. People don't understand. Drowning people are dangerous. Yeah. Because they'll hold on to you, and you won't be able to get them to relax. Yeah. And then they won't let go of you, and then you're both drowning. Exactly. It's in ice on the south coast. It's called Reynisfjorda. It's considered literally one of the most dangerous beaches in the world. And they have these sneaker waves that just come from nowhere. And we were there, and I think it was a family. I think it was a little girl who lost her life. But witnessing it as well, there were so many tourists who thought it was fun to run up as close as they could. And as the waves crash over, they get a selfie, and they run. And I was like, I don't want to be like, oh, here we go. What the fuck, dude? That's like some shit right out of Lord of the Rings. Look at that. That doesn't even look real. That looks like Mordor. The sneaker waves from there, they will come from nowhere. Fuck. And they were just absolutely, yeah. Fuck you. There you see the tourists there. I don't go anywhere near that shit. Fuck you. Oh, there you go. Yeah, so you'd have tourists. When we were there, and I felt. I was so conflicted, because I was like, look, I don't want to be a killjoy or anything. There's people taking pictures while sitting on those rocks. And then you just saw massive waves. We left, and then an hour later, we saw helicopters overhead. We heard ambulances, and we knew the worst that happened. Yeah, you can die. You can die doing that. That is, a guy who was a WWE wrestler died a few years ago. He got caught in a riptide, right? Is that what happened to him? That's what I was thinking it was. I was saying it like, I think that was like on Venice Beach or Santa Monica. I think you're right. I think it was in Venice. Yeah, man, it's fucking terrifying. If you don't know how to swim, the ocean is a monster, man. Oh, yeah. Even on certain parts as well. When you get wind over tide, that's the worst. The tide's going one way, wind's going the other. And we get what's called the overfalls. And swimming over there, it was nuts. The waves, they're not rolling anymore. They're detonating. That's the only way I can describe it. It's just going off around you. And when you're swimming in there as well, what's happening underneath is all the jellyfish are just getting smashed on the rocks. So as you're swimming, jellyfish tentacles are literally. They're literally going up your nose and your ear. You're inhaling them as well. Oh, great. That's got to be good for you. Jellyfish can fuck you up too. Yeah. They'll sting the shit out of you, especially the wrong ones. The ones in Iceland are all right. But I think after you take maybe like five or six, they start attacking your lymph nodes. You start scratching under your armpits, over your groin. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to kill you. LifeLock is designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click can put your personal information and your identity at risk. So protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats. And if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated U.S.-based identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored. Backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million. And coverage for eligible losses and expenses. Visit LifeLock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE. 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My youngest daughter got a little bit, just a touch, from a jellyfish. Jellyfish in Costa Rica. And oh my God, it was horrible. She was in agony. It was terrible. And they keep like stuff on the beach that you pour on them because it happens so often. And people get zapped by jelly. It's not, they're not dangerous. They don't kill you, but they fucking hurt like hell. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, the ocean itself is just like, like what's interesting about all those people in that photograph that's in that video they're watching and standing. Isn't it fascinating how people are drawn to that abyss? They're drawn. They're drawn to the majesty of that water. Just the vastness of it. There's something about that that I think is really good for people. I think it's one of the reasons why people like going to the ocean and sitting on the beach. I think there's something about that that just calms people the fuck down. Because it puts you into perspective. It's like, hey bitch, look out at all that fucking water. Okay, you can't live in any of that. All right? You are so nothing. And that's why I think beach towns are so chill. Like beach towns are not like, why is downtown Manhattan so beep, beep, fuck you, everybody's like hyped up. It's because they're surrounded by people created shit. If you're just standing there staring at the vastness of the ocean, you're like, all right, relax. And then at nighttime, you see the stars too. You see the fucking Milky Way. And then there's the ocean like, all right, this is clearly, I'm not that important. A hundred percent. I'm barely anything. A hundred percent. And like we said with Iceland with some mushrooms under the northern lights. Oh, especially on the last day of your swim. It's like the universe letting you know you did it. You completed your journey. Fucking bananas, man. This is exactly it. But I love what you said there as well. I mean, certainly on the swim, it was so interesting. Sometimes I try to swim with gratitude as much as I can, you know, swim with a smile and you're just grateful to be there because I love David Goggins. And I've tried his form of motivation where he's, you know, man up, grit your teeth, get through this. But for me personally, after a hundred days. I can't keep calling myself a bitch. I'm just like, aw. Listen, David is a very unique character. I don't know anybody like him, and I don't recommend it. I don't recommend you becoming him. Good fucking luck. You have to have that demon inside of you like that guy does. He's a sweetheart of a guy, though. I love him to death. But that dude, that fire ain't going out. He's 50 years old. That fire is not going out. He does things where people aren't watching. That's what's crazy about David. It's not all these things where people get to see. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He calls it being in the lab. Every day he's doing it. Dude, every day he's out there running 20 miles. He runs with a weight vest on. He gets in from that. He does weights. He does chin-ups and push-ups. It doesn't stop. It doesn't end. And then the next day it's another thing. It's another fucking insane thing, and it never ends. And no one's watching. No one's watching. It's not being documented. He's just doing it. And then every now and then he'll go out and run some fucking 200-mile race, and everybody's like, what the fuck, man? And he's also got no knees. His knees are completely blown apart. He's got bone on bone on both of his fucking knees. He's had multiple operations where they had to actually – his bone had grown so fucked up that they had to chop his fucking leg in half and pull it down so they could make it level because the bone – it's like called – what is it called? Wolf syndrome or some shit where they grind against each other so your body tries to protect itself by building extra bone. And when it builds it, it fucks up the geometry of the knees. They don't work correctly. So then you're running like bone on bone with fucked up geometry, and you get back pain and all kinds of – so he had his fucking knee sawed off and shifted downward and then screwed into place. And you know what he did? He just got on a fucking bicycle, and he started using a bicycle then. And so he's fucking indoor cycling all day for five, six hours. I had something similar actually. Yeah, subacromial decompression with my shoulder, which is often – and weightlifters will get it, but they said we've never really seen it in a swimmer, but it was exactly the same. I needed to have the bone shaved down to make room again. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah, that was that left shoulder. The right's always been fine. So when they shaved down the bone, did they have to – is your cartilage okay? Yeah, cartilage was fine, and it was, you know – It was just the bone? Keyhole, yeah, just there. Yeah, just went in, shaved down the bone. How much bone did they shave down? A good amount, yeah. Did you get like a little cup of it to save? I should have asked, shouldn't I? You should save that. But I love what you said there as well, because I just think Goggins – Goggins taps into something that so few people want to almost address. Carl Jung talked about it with your shadow self, you know, that part of your psyche that you don't want to reveal to the world. Are you aggressive, jealous, hyper-competitive? Again, it was Nietzsche, wasn't it? Whoever fights monsters should see to it that they too don't become a monster. Right. Because if you stare into the abyss too long, the abyss will stare back into you. Yeah. And I think that's what Goggins does brilliantly, or Jordan Peterson as well. You know, the problem isn't having a monster, it's making sure you can't put it back in the cage and I think that's what Goggins does so well. And I did take inspiration from that on certain swims as well, where, you know, reading a few comments online, people go, he's never going to do this swim, he's too big to be a swimmer, this is going to fail badly. That is the weird thing about you, though. Like, most endurance athletes aren't that heavily muscled. Yeah. It's very odd. When I show pictures of you to my friends, and I want to talk about people who have done crazy shit, and I've detailed some of the insane things you've done, some of the insane swims, and they're like, how is he doing that when he's that jacked? I'm like, that is weird, right? Yeah. I think there's a few different things to unpack. So the first is you just need bulk. So going back to biomimicry, and we're talking about that a lot now, but I think what's so interesting is I want to become more whale-like. You know, I think absolutely. You look at a pool swimmer, they are poetic in the water. They're amazing. They look like dolphins, a mako shark. That would be useless for me when caught in an Arctic storm. You need strength. Strength and bulk. Yeah, muscle mass being thermic so I can generate heat with every single movement. Yes. But equally on top of that, I think it's also really interesting that through my strength training, it's called mechanotransduction, which just basically means people think of strength training as improving the strength of the muscles, but it's connective tissue, ligaments and tendons that respond to that mechanical stimuli. So for me, when swimming, I need the connective tissue. The tendons in my rotator cuff need to be bulletproof because that's what's going to give up. This swim isn't going to stop because of my VO2 or lactic threshold. It's going to stop because something tears So that's why being like this, I'm not as fast, but I sacrifice that for being more physically robust. That makes sense. And I think finally, this is something as well, which is really interesting at the moment. So I'm a huge fan of Cam McAvoy. He's the 50-meter world record holder for freestyle. And he's just rewritten the rule book on swimming. Basically, there's a direct correlation between your one rep max on pull-ups and your swim sprint speed. Really? Yeah, really, real strong correlation. So he's now basically doing one rep max with pull-ups. 80, 90 kilos. And just speed reps as well, Joe. Just ripping. And you see what he's done. He's barely swimming. 90 kilos? Yeah, he's an absolute savage. Isn't that like 185 pounds or some shit? What is that? Yeah, it's on his Instagram recently. He did it with 80. He's an absolute specimen. And how many chin-ups is he doing that way? I think he was doing about three. He's an absolute specimen, yeah. So that's swimming. That's sprinting. So obviously, that's not endurance. But taking inspiration from that, you have what's called your strength reserve. So strength reserve just basically means if you are capable of doing a pull-up with 100 kilos, that means your own body weight is basically a smaller percentage of what you're capable of. Here we go. Is that him? There he goes. 80 kilos. Oh, my God, that's insane. What is it, Jamie? Did we figure out what that is? I'll ask my phone. It's 2.2, so it's like a 176, I think. What is 80 kilograms in pounds? But look how strange. It's very strict and how casual. Yeah, 176. That's crazy. He's amazing. And he's completely rewritten the rule books when it comes to swimming. Like I said, 50 world record holder at the moment. That's crazy. He's doing that three sets of five with 50 kilograms. And so this is just to generate strength for the sprinting aspect of swimming. Exactly that. You think about it. If your one rep max on pull-ups is so good, every single stroke is almost like a unilateral, a single limb pull-down. So he's just ripping. He's just ripping through the water like that. But what's been really interesting is traditionally, you used to just swim for miles and miles. It was almost, we call it like garbage yardage, that you're just swimming, swimming, swimming. He was swimming sometimes in his sets like 800 meters, which is my warm-up. But it was just all flat out. So he's revolutionized swimming. So that's sprinting. But what I've taken from it, like I said, your strength reserve. Basically, if you're capable of a huge one rep max on pull-ups, it means that every single stroke that you take is a smaller percentage. Of what you're capable of. I think the best example I can think of like this is a good friend of mine, Eddie Hall, World Strongest Man, first guy to deadlift 500 kilos. He entered a CrossFit competition and there was a particular WOD. It was 60 kilos. There's a brilliant video if you've seen it, Jamie, but it's 60 kilos. And you see these CrossFitters, they're upped overhead and it's a clean and it's a beautiful push press. But because Eddie is so strong and he's got such a big strength reserve, he basically as you're about to see now, just, I mean, that's a front delt raise mixed with a row. Did you see what I mean? That's crazy. This is crazy. If you don't know, that is so much harder to do it that way. 60 kilos. I believe 60 kilos. And so, like I said, the CrossFitters, perfect technique. They clean it to the chest and then they are bending their knees and they are pressing. Bro, that shit ain't even touching his chest. That's crazy. It's a front delt raise, kind of with a row. That's literally insane. If you don't know, that's literally insane. But my point here is, I mean, Eddie's an absolute specimen, but my point here is, he doesn't train for this. This is completely, he doesn't, this isn't his thing. Clearly, because he doesn't do that movement at all. If he did that movement, he wouldn't be doing it that way. But he's got an immense strength reserve. And so that's crazy. That's my point. There we go. Actual time. He broke the record. That is so insane. That's so insane that he did that that way. Now watch a regular CrossFitter do it. Can you show a regular CrossFitter do it? Regular, well you can find it. Regular CrossFitters, they catch it on their chest. Is exactly it. And then they step back. As a poetic technique. And so that's my point. So coming back to the swimming, that as strong as I get when I'm strength training, it just means that every single stroke over the Arctic Circle is a smaller fraction of what I'm capable of. That makes sense. That makes sense. And then you have to be able to have that fine line between endurance and bulk. Is exactly. So muscular endurance and, you know, but also having strength. Is exactly it. I think also what was really interesting in an MRI scan revealed, so you have slow twitch fibers that are very resistant to fatigue, they're your ultramarathon runners. Then you have your fast twitch fibers that are sprint speed power. And what was so strange is on my MRI, they said, Ross, you have an unusual proportion of fast oxidative glycolytic fibers. So they're basically in between the two. They're able to produce a lot of force, but they're very resistant to fatigue as well. Is that cultivated? Interesting. They said, I think I had a genetic predisposition. I was trained for that, but with the amount of training I've done, I've also nurtured it. Interesting. Now, how do they know that you have a genetic predisposition for it if they didn't examine you before you started all this training? It was all theory. Yeah. They said. Yeah. Well, that's my question is I wonder how much of it is adaptable. I wonder how much of what we say, oh, he has a genetic advantage, like, are we sure? Or did this guy's body change because of necessity? It made intuitive sense when they said that. What would you call that? A clean press? The. What Eddie Hall did? No. It's. - It's part of a work I called it There we go. Thank you, Jamie. It's called the Isabella. Oh, here we go. So this is Noah Olsen, who's an absolute specimen, by the way. I think he's competed in more CrossFit games. Catching it and then using his legs to complete it. So he's doing it awesome. This is perfect technique. Look at that. Catching it. Oh, so they're not catching it on their chest and pressing it off. No, so that's a snap. It's like a snatch press kind of something. Okay, so it's called the Isabella. But do you see the rest, I suppose, between sets compared to the Delros? And like I said, Noah's a good friend. What is the term WOD? What does that stand for again? Workout of the day. There you go. What is it? Workout of the day? Workout of the day. And EMOMS is reps per minute, right? Isn't that what it is? Where are we? Okay, so this workout of the day is a whole bunch of these? Oh, 30 snatches. I think this one's different, actually. It might be different. Why did Eddie just say that he did that? He did a particular Isabella benchmark workout in 50 seconds. I think that's, I mean, that's just what I'm going off of. I was trying to find something different. If it's something different, my bad, but. No, but yeah, but it does illustrate. Interesting, beating the previous male record previously associated with figures like Rich Froning. But Rich Froning's like way smaller than him, which is crazy that he could do that. Because it's the same weight, right? Is it the same weight they're all using? Yeah, yeah, it will be 60, yeah. That's even nuts that Rich Froning could do that with. Because I don't think his body weight is anywhere even close to that. Eddie Hall's 300 plus pounds, right? He's got a bit leaner now as well. Yeah, he's getting smaller. Well, he's done some MMA fights and shit. Yeah, with Tommy as well. Did you see he went the distance as well with Tommy Fury? Yes. Crazy. I mean, I think they both won that fight. It was amazing in that. Crazy. Yeah, no one expected him to go that far. You know what I was really impressed with when he had a boxing match with The Mountain? And what I was really impressed with was The Mountain. I never say his name correctly. How do you say his name? Thor Bjornsson, I believe. Bjornsson. Bjornsson? Thor Bjornsson, yeah. He didn't use his strength. Like, he was throwing punches, like, with perfect technique. He was throwing punches like a boxer. Like, he learned how to. Whoever trained him, they did an amazing job. Because the guy's obviously got ridiculous power. But he's, like, throwing punches correctly. And he dropped Eddie Hall a few times. Whereas Eddie Hall's just winging at him with these wild power shots. Thor is moving around him. And look, see how he's throwing his technique? It's very clean, man. Even his jab. Look at that. He's not overextending. I mean, he clearly is, like, a new boxer, but a very good athlete. And is figuring out how to use his technique and recognize that the power is always going to be there. Because he's so fucking huge. He dropped him a few times. At least once in that fight. I find that amazing when sometimes, like, the laws of martial arts sometimes need to be slightly bent for people that size. You know, again, having rolled with certain people. Like, you get an armbar and they just stand up with you. Yeah, well, that's a problem. Like, there's certain techniques. Well, Marcelo Garcia, who's the giant killer, he famously would just go for necks. Like, because he felt like Kimura, like, he. Obviously, he knew how to use a Kimura. He's a very high-level black belt. One of the greatest grapplers of all time, if not the greatest. And Marcelo never hit Kimuras. He would just get necks. So he became a neck specialist. So his whole thing was high elbow guillotine. Rear naked choke. If he got your back, you're fucked. And that was how he was able to defeat much larger opponents. Because you can't really defend. If he can get that rear naked choke around your neck and stop the blood to your brain, that's it. You go to sleep. Like, you can not tap. If someone gets you an armbar, you can allow your arm to get broken. And I've seen it happen a lot of times. But what you can't do is stop a guy from choking you unconscious. And so Marcelo, being as smart as he is and being a small guy, he's like 160 pounds, he just figured, okay, I'll just get everybody's neck. And he just became a neck specialist. See, I love what you said there as well. Because I often think, you know, the best athletes are the best at doing what they do best. And what I mean by that, whether it's ultramarathon running, whether it is CrossFit, World's Strongest Man, it doesn't matter. You lean into what you're really good at. You sort of Khabib wrestling, you know, Pereira striking. Sure. It's just, you just drill what you're really good at. I think for me, swimming, certainly that's what I've sort of honed in on. I'm like, look, I'm not going to be built like Michael Phelps. I don't have this poetic, nice stroke. But what I can say is, I'm not going to be built like Michael Phelps. What I can do is just get crazy strong for an endurance athlete so my strength reserve is so much bigger. And do something really insane, like swimming for three fucking days. Exactly. That's the thing is, like, most of these guys are just not going to be willing to do that. They're willing to do a race because in a race, you just go all out. And, you know, it only lasts for a few seconds. And when it's over, it's over. You know, you do that and you can turn around, the shore's right there. Like, you have to keep going. You have many days in front of you. And that's just a completely different thing. You know, I think that's it. Because I've always, I was brought up with my dad and my granddad telling me stories. One, of athletes. But two, you know, the heroic age of Antarctic exploration when Edmondson, Robert Falcon Scott, Shackleton were trying to get to the South Pole. And you know about the Robert Falcon Scott and Edmondson, the contrast in what they did. You know, with Edmondson, just Norwegian efficiency to get to the South Pole. So it turns up he's learned so much from those indigenous in the Arctic. Learned about dogs. All of the crew were gifted in cross-country skiing. In comparison, the British guy, Robert Falcon Scott, brought ponies that fell through the ice. Mechanical sleds that broke down. Tinned food. Terrible. What was so interesting, as they got there, Edmondson even knew, as he got to the South Pole, he had a certain amount of dogs. And on the way back, he knew he could start systematically eating the dogs on the way back. Whereas the British, Robert Falcon Scott, refused to do that. They were just handling, manhandling all of their sleds. And when they got there to the South Pole, they saw the Norwegian flag there already. Them were forced. Forced to trek back. And, I mean, one of the most harrowing, it was Lawrence Oates, whose foot was, you know, badly injured. And he just knew that he was holding up the team. And then, famously, as they were caught in a blizzard, he just turned to the team and just said, Gentlemen, I'm going for a short walk. I might be a while. And he just walked to his death to try to make sure that his team made it. Oh, my God. And they didn't. They didn't, unfortunately. Yeah. And I think it's that idea of kind of like, you know, civilization and survival. You know, you have to. You have to go to a strange place sometimes to actually make it. And I think that was almost the appeal for my career in inverted commas, if you could call it. Well, that's the appeal to people that are watching, for sure. That you're clearly going to some strange place where you could die. You know, and that's why people like watching your, what would you call, I almost said stunts, but that's disrespectful. No, no. I would say, but they're not stunts. They're, you know, journeys. Yeah, they are. Yeah. In some ways. A quest is a noble way of saying it. I appreciate that. Yeah. No, you're quite right. It is. I always say they're almost these sporting spectacles that we use as a Trojan horse to deliver ocean conservation. So I don't mind stunts at all. Well, that's good that you're doing that. Yeah. I mean, obviously, that's good. You know, I mean, I think that there's one area of the world that we really are disrespecting, and that's our oceans. And when I say that, I mean, we can't keep pulling fish out at the rate we're doing. It's nuts. If you talk to fishermen and if you talk like this. People have done surveys. Obviously, the ocean is enormous. It's very hard to understand. But the middle of it is not where everything is. Most of the life on the ocean is near the shores, or at least reasonably close to the shores. Ninety fucking percent of all big fish aren't in the ocean anymore. Like all these tuna men that used to fish tuna way back in the day and catch thousands. It's a lot less now. It's and no one is even thinking about it. And. You know, there's regulations that some countries have on the way they're allowed to fish, but some countries don't follow any of those fucking regulations. You know, I mean, it's and what we've done to the, you know, fun fact. This is how Somalians became pirates. So Somalians became pirates because they were fishermen and they were all just fishermen. They were just peaceful fishermen living in Somalia. And these different countries were dumping toxic waste off their shore. And it was. Killing all the fish. And so they first started kidnapping these people who were dumping these boats filled with toxic sludge or whatever the fuck they were dumping nuclear waste, whatever they're dumping into the ocean and demanding a ransom because these people have caused them so much loss because their fish are all dead. And then they thought about and said, well, fuck this. Why don't we just kidnap people? And so that became their new sport. So the fish are all dead. And they were on that. What is that stuff called? Cat. Is that what it's called? So there's a there's a narcotic that they take called cat. And it's a leaf that you chew. Is a nut. Is it a nut? It's a leaf. Whatever it is. It's something that you chew that gives you like an amphetamine like state like look at me. I am the captain now. Like that's that's cat. You're messed up. You weigh 80 pounds. You've been up for seven days. And. Now you're kidnapping people. And so that's that's literally Samoa's history. So when you look at like the Somalian scams that are happening in America and you look at like this stuff that's going on in Minnesota, like, well, how do all these Somalians get involved in all these scams? It all goes back to Europeans poisoning their water. Yep. Yeah. Russian. I think I think Russian poison. I don't know. I don't want to blame any countries, but someone was dumping toxic waste in their water. And that's what started it all off. That's true, right? I think they call themselves. the People's Coast Guard of Somalia that's how they started off wow they don't have a long history of pirates they don't like like blackbeard or any shit like that this is a fairly recent in human history uh turn for their culture and it probably led to a lot of other criminal activity if you think about it like if the the core nature of your civilization gets shut off the core nature is you're a fisherman right you live in a village y'all catch fish that's what you live off of all that gets shut down people go into desperation mode people start taking cat they're probably taking cat already but they they're doing amphetamines and then they're kidnapping folks next thing you know you're getting machine guns you get all that money now you got a fucking you got carbines you got a 50 cal is that cat legal can i take that when i'm water tested or this episode is brought to you by chime and i know people don't usually get excited about banking but chime is 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United insurance or live outside the United States you can still get 10% off your States you can still get 10% off your States you can still get 10% off your first month visit better help calm to first month visit better help calm to first month visit better help calm to explore your payment options that's better explore your payment options that's better explore your payment options that's better H ELP calm I don't think it is I think H ELP calm I don't think it is I think it's I don't know what it is in America it's I don't know what it is in America it's I don't know what it is in America we probably have it schedule one how we probably have it schedule one how we probably have it schedule one how Somalians fishermen became pirates yeah Somalians fishermen became pirates yeah Somalians fishermen became pirates yeah oldest 2009 it's mostly just says that oldest 2009 it's mostly just says that oldest 2009 it's mostly just says that once they lost their government it once they lost their government it once they lost their government it became a free-for-all right here I do became a free-for-all right here I do became a free-for-all right here I do think that was part of it as well think that was part of it as well think that was part of it as well fishermen just kind of got pissed I fishermen just kind of got pissed I fishermen just kind of got pissed I think that was part of it as well but I think that was part of it as well but I think that was part of it as well but I think there was an aspect of it about think there was an aspect of it about think there was an aspect of it about poisoning the water I'm sure it probably poisoning the water I'm sure it probably poisoning the water I'm sure it probably came up later because it's still 2009 came up later because it's still 2009 came up later because it's still 2009 this is right right when it was kicking this is right right when it was kicking this is right right when it was kicking off really at this time when this off really at this time when this off really at this time when this article is written it said they had 18 article is written it said they had 18 cargo ships being held okay this is but cargo ships being held okay this is but cargo ships being held okay this is but I see I think this is everything had I see I think this is everything had I see I think this is everything had already started to fall apart and I already started to fall apart and I already started to fall apart and I think it started to fall apart when the think it started to fall apart when the think it started to fall apart when the fish went away if I remember correctly fish went away if I remember correctly fish went away if I remember correctly this was quite a long time ago I read this was quite a long time ago I read this was quite a long time ago I read this but see if you put it into this but see if you put it into this but see if you put it into perplexity say is there a connection perplexity say is there a connection between Somali pirates and offshore between Somali pirates and offshore between Somali pirates and offshore dumping of toxic waste that led to dumping of toxic waste that led to dumping of toxic waste that led to depleting of their fishing grounds I depleting of their fishing grounds I depleting of their fishing grounds I didn't ask that exact question I just didn't ask that exact question I just didn't ask that exact question I just asked what was the reason they started asked what was the reason they started asked what was the reason they started taking ransoms but see if that factors taking ransoms but see if that factors taking ransoms but see if that factors in see if it says that if you say was in see if it says that if you say was in see if it says that if you say was there an aspect of it where they were there an aspect of it where they were there an aspect of it where they were kidnapping people who had poisoned their kidnapping people who had poisoned their kidnapping people who had poisoned their water kidnapping people who poisoned water kidnapping people who poisoned water kidnapping people who poisoned their water sweet dude isn't AI their water sweet dude isn't AI their water sweet dude isn't AI wonderful I know it's gonna kill us all wonderful I know it's gonna kill us all wonderful I know it's gonna kill us all and it's not necessarily people they and it's not necessarily people they and it's not necessarily people they kidnap we're not all people poisoning kidnap we're not all people poisoning kidnap we're not all people poisoning water right but initially there were water right but initially there were water right but initially there were serious reports and allegations of serious reports and allegations of serious reports and allegations of foreign companies dumping hazardous foreign companies dumping hazardous foreign companies dumping hazardous waste off of Somalia however a UN waste off of Somalia however a UN waste off of Somalia however a UN environmental Ocha account said two environmental Ocha account said two environmental Ocha account said two years earlier UN fact-checking missions years earlier UN fact-checking missions years earlier UN fact-checking missions found no evidence probably cuz the UN found no evidence probably cuz the UN found no evidence probably cuz the UN was dumping and it's post tsunami was dumping and it's post tsunami was dumping and it's post tsunami inquiries did not identify specific inquiries did not identify specific inquiries did not identify specific dumping sites so they were kidnapping dumping sites so they were kidnapping dumping sites so they were kidnapping people poisoning their water is much people poisoning their water is much people poisoning their water is much more definitive than the evidence supports more definitive than the evidence supports more definitive than the evidence supports yeah I don't know if we know the yeah I don't know if we know the yeah I don't know if we know the problem with AI is it's pulling from all problem with AI is it's pulling from all problem with AI is it's pulling from all these different sources online and this these different sources online and this these different sources online and this yeah maybe the story I read was bias as yeah maybe the story I read was bias as yeah maybe the story I read was bias as well but the story that I well I read well but the story that I well I read well but the story that I well I read was a sort of a sympathetic take on why was a sort of a sympathetic take on why was a sort of a sympathetic take on why there's so many pirates I don't not there's so many pirates I don't not there's so many pirates I don't not sympathetic but an understanding take sympathetic but an understanding take sympathetic but an understanding take like they're saying like you need to like they're saying like you need to like they're saying like you need to understand that this is a chain of understand that this is a chain of understand that this is a chain of consequences a chain of events that took consequences a chain of events that took consequences a chain of events that took place and one of those things was place and one of those things was place and one of those things was people dot like for sure someone's dump people dot like for sure someone's dump people dot like for sure someone's dump toxic shit into the ocean we know they toxic shit into the ocean we know they toxic shit into the ocean we know they do that and so it doesn't seem that far do that and so it doesn't seem that far do that and so it doesn't seem that far of a stretch to imagine that that of a stretch to imagine that that of a stretch to imagine that that initially started off a crash in their initially started off a crash in their initially started off a crash in their economy if they're fishing lands were economy if they're fishing lands were economy if they're fishing lands were poisoned go and try and sort it out I'll poisoned go and try and sort it out I'll poisoned go and try and sort it out I'll do a swim there don't do that yes do a swim there don't do that yes do a swim there don't do that yes women dress up like a dollar bill women dress up like a dollar bill women dress up like a dollar bill over there or what straight up on these over there or what straight up on these over there or what straight up on these get yourself in a gold boat and put a get yourself in a gold boat and put a sign that says we have no guns and go sign that says we have no guns and go sign that says we have no guns and go have fun that would be amazing I have fun that would be amazing I have fun that would be amazing I re-asked and it gave a different answer re-asked and it gave a different answer re-asked and it gave a different answer yes some Somali pirates explicitly yes some Somali pirates explicitly yes some Somali pirates explicitly described their attacks as retaliation described their attacks as retaliation described their attacks as retaliation for toxic waste dumping not just for toxic waste dumping not just for toxic waste dumping not just illegal fishing previous answer illegal fishing previous answer illegal fishing previous answer understated the reporting behind that understated the reporting behind that understated the reporting behind that claim but it does not establish that claim but it does not establish that the crews they kidnapped themselves the crews they kidnapped themselves the crews they kidnapped themselves dumping waste right they probably just dumping waste right they probably just dumping waste right they probably just found people offshore and said you were found people offshore and said you were found people offshore and said you were dumping I'm the captain now and two dumping I'm the captain now and two dumping I'm the captain now and two okay uh 2008 pirate spokesman oh they okay uh 2008 pirate spokesman oh they okay uh 2008 pirate spokesman oh they have a spokesman I wonder if he was have a spokesman I wonder if he was have a spokesman I wonder if he was elected I wonder how he became elected I wonder how he became elected I wonder how he became spokesman you think he had a campaign spokesman you think he had a campaign spokesman you think he had a campaign you think people had like signs on their you think he had a campaign you think people had like signs on their names and they're like oh my God the toxic waste has been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly 20 years oh 20 years is a long time but I believe that the report connected that claim to the captured MV Fina a Ukrainian ship carrying tanks and military equipment not a vessel identified in the report as a dumping waste but what a great ship to bust imagine you get a boat that's got tanks and military equipment now you got yourself a army dog environment environment environment environmental accusations weren't solely a private invention in that reporting UN envoy boy say that guy's name help me out no I'm not even going to attempt that one Al Madhu Alud Abdallah said the UN had reliable information that European and Asian companies were dumping toxic waste off Somalia UNEP spokesman Nick Natal describes Somalia as a hazardous waste dumping ground but said insecurity prevented a proper scientific assessment of the problems the problems the problems well this the man people love to dump shit in the ocean these fucking assholes like you know you remember when that kid got killed in Egypt he was at a resort in Egypt he got killed by a shark I think I saw the video it's a horrible video because he's screaming for his father he's screaming for his father so what we had heard and we looked into it it's not conclusive but it seems like they were dumping sheep carcasses in the ocean like when they had sheep carcasses it's not conclusive but it seems like they were dumping sheep carcasses in the ocean like when they had sheep carcasses they didn't want to just laying around rotting so they would put them in a boat take them out to sea and dump them in the water so what did that attract it and so then these sharks were in that area and people there was a really beautiful resort people go take their families go on vacation in a fucking monster soup monster soup right out there I'll tell you make fucking soup out of their dicks take pull them out of the water serve it up and we need to go back to sharks fin soup these fucking people think sharks are their friends so do I need to swim Somalia and sort that out then I don't think you do I think you should probably stay out of that maybe that'll be the one that kills you whatever the fuck is in that water whatever the 20 years of toxic dumping that's not good you don't want that in your skin no deal no deal yeah going back to the cardio I wanted to ask your opinion on this best cardio in the UFC or MMA actually in history I'm gonna go I'm gonna put some up there Marab Marab is probably yeah Bisping had phenomenal cardio Bisping would melt people I remember his fight with Jason Mayhem Miller who was very talented Bisping just melted him just his pace was insane Nick Diaz Nick Diaz insane pace yeah Nate Diaz also yeah also incredible cardio yeah there's a lot of these guys now it's like it's we're we're in a realm now of athletes Joshua Vann insane cardio insane cardio Joshua Vann who's the flyweight champion the fifth round fights like he's in the first round insane cardio insane the level now is is at an all-time high that's why Cain Velasquez was so weird because it just didn't make sense didn't make sense Demetrius Johnson and small guys you just kind of like yeah you're not inhibited by gravity the same way but we came Velasquez you're like that just you shouldn't you should be able to do that DC told me Cain would take a couple months off of training like he had an injury had to take time off of training come back three months later fuck everybody up at the gym he said in cardio drills he said it was nuts oh it was nuts he said his his base was just It was just insanity. Meanwhile, he lost the title to Fabrizio Verdum in Mexico City at altitude because he was only there for two weeks. And Fabrizio Verdum, he got a place to train in the mountains above Mexico City. So Fabrizio was living at like, I think it was like 9,000 plus feet above sea level and training up there. And so he had phenomenal cardio and Kane actually gassed out in that fight. And Fabrizio caught him in a guillotine to win the title. I remember. Yeah, man, that was a big moment because nobody had ever not just beaten Kane that way, but beaten Kane with like where Kane was tired. Like you never saw Kane tired. It just shows you that altitude training is fucking critical, man. If you want to compete at altitude, I was showing you the hypoxia chamber that we have here. The Exalt, I think it's called the Exalt XP hypoxia trainer. It is so hard. It is so hard to work out at altitude. But if you can do it, I did it in preparation for this hunt that I did in Utah. And so I did it for two months. And I was very rigorous. I was very regular. I was doing two really hard cardio workouts inside that thing a week. And that's all they recommend is that don't do more than that because you'll get to a point where you can't recover. Like you want two, maybe three once you've built up, but I never got to three. Made a giant difference. Giant difference. Because I go to the same place every year. And at the highest point, it's probably 9,000 feet. Sometimes you're at 5,000, 7,000. But, you know, you're walking up like very steep, loose dirt at 5,000, 7,000 feet. It's hard. It's really hard. So you could feel it physiologically. 100%. I could feel that I had more gas. 100%. Yeah. A big difference. Big difference. And I only got to do it for two months. And now I'm thinking I'm getting ready for next September. I'm like, if I can do it for a whole year. If I could do that twice a week for a year, that'll make a giant difference by the time September rolls around. 100%. I think that's going to change a lot of the way. I think that particular type of training, when you're training at like that machine can crank you up to above 20,000 feet above sea level. I've only done 14. I've done 14.5. That's the highest I've done. It's insanity. There's no air in there, man. There's no fucking air in there. And you're doing sprints on the airdyne machine. You're doing sprints on the treadmill. And you're doing kettlebell swings. And it's like. When you get out of there, man, it's like your body gets this rush of oxygen. You're like. As soon as you open the door, you're like, oh, my God. But then once you recover from it, the next time it's a little bit easier. And the next time it's a little bit easier. It's like you feel your body adapting. Because it's like, oh, shit, we got to do this. So in a real world scenario like what we are here, like what is the sea level here? What's the altitude here? 500, 600 feet. It's nothing. It's nothing. You feel like there's so much fucking air. You can run through a building. That's what it feels like. And I think that's a game changer. And so many of these, like, really high level camps have chosen to train at altitude. You know, you have a bunch of them. Obviously, the Dagestanis, they train. I don't know what. What is Dagestan? What is Dagestan above sea level? It's in the mountains. Yeah. I got to say they're probably 4,000, 5,000 feet. You know, obviously, they have the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. I think that's about 5,000 feet. That's about 5,000 feet. You know, and. They have actually both. They go. They have areas below sea level that are down by the Caspian Coast. And they have mountain peaks that. Average elevation is 500 meters, though. Interesting. So it's like 1,500, 600 feet. Yeah. That's enough for an adaptation. Max is what? That's a peak. It's a mountain peak. It's 14,000. Max is 14,000. But some of these mountain towns, like where Khabib is, where's he at? I know they do runs. They do runs at altitude. You know, as does like the guys in Denver. Yeah, he's in a high spot. What's that? 2,000 meters above, so 6,500 or so. Yeah. Where he is, Sildy. Okay. So he's pretty high. Mountain village. 6,000 feet is high. Yeah. So if you're training at that altitude, that's akin to Colorado Springs or a lot of these places. You know, Justin Gaethje's coach, Trevor Whitman, he has a lot of his guys. They do runs in the mountains. They do these runs uphill in the mountains. And on limited water as well. Some good stuff now around dehydration training. That's Justin's big thing. He will not drink water while he's training. Controlled dehydration. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. The Khabib up there. That view is insane. So there is a, this is a weird story. I've got a, there is a method that could make you a faster runner. And I'm going to apologize now. This is a little bit left field. But I was in Namibia. I was learning from the Sam Bushman out there. So we were. How do you organize that? Yeah. Oh, it's a documentary. To WhatsApp? Yeah. Can I come? So we are out there doing like a marathon a day. We, for the entire week, barely any water. It was horrible. One particular guy out there. And they're amazing. They're just gliding across the sand basically as well. I'm just like heavy running, trying to keep up with them. And there was one particular guy in the tribe as well, who was, could trace his ancestry back to the Curlagin tribes. Did you know about the Curlagin tribe? No. So it's basically an ethnic group specific to Kenya. You, oh, you've already smashed yours. I'm still working on mine. Come on, dog. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm talking shit. Let's go. Sorry. So basically, Curlagin tribe, ethnic group specific to Kenya, produce more amazing marathon runners than anywhere else. It's disproportionate just how good they are with this particular group of people. And as we're sitting around the campfire, they turned to me and they said, this guy goes, Ross, do you know why we're so good? Do you know why the Curlagin tribe are so good at running? And I said, altitude. And he went, nope. And I was like, barefoot running, some beautiful biomechanics. Nope. Circumcision. Oh, you know it. Yeah. And crawling through. Crawling through needles. Oh, you know. Crawling through thorns. You all right? And they, but with the mud as well. Yeah. And they don't pass on. Yeah. So circumcision as a grown boy with no, no, nothing, no water, no cleansliness, no, no anesthesia, just they cut it. I think he's, he's a knife, right? Or a sharp rock. Well, the theory goes that he was saying that basically with the circumcision, you're basically as a young man in front of the entire tribe, they all come out and they put clay like mud on your face. And so you have to like, just sit there. And then basically the guy takes the chief of the tribe, takes your tackle. And then with essentially a tackle, I like that. Takes your tackle, circumcise you. You cannot flinch. If you flinch and the mud cracks, all of a sudden in the tribe, everyone will be like, ah, he's not very desirable. So you don't basically find a girl. You don't have kids. And only those where the mud doesn't crack, they're considered desirable and they pass on their genetics. So generation after generation, you're passing on this pain. It's intolerance. And then the end, you end up collagen tribe. Just unbelievable runners. Yeah. I mean, he looked across and said, Ross, do you want to be faster? Pulled out a knife. And I was like, I'm good. What if you're already circumcised? What is he going to do? Take it back an inch? Fuck, dude. What does he do then? Like I want in, but the problem is they did me when I was a kid. Didn't even help. I didn't have to crawl through thorns. Nothing. Yeah. You have to crawl through thorns with your bloody dick. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't wince. Can't make any noise. That's the whole point. Yeah. And then those who don't react to consider desirable, they pass on their genetics. So generation after generation, you just get this incredible. Are you going to show me a video, Jamie? How dare you? It's paused. I just, that's what they look like. Put the mud on their faces, I think. Oh boy. Getting ready. Some lady talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Fun times. And then you just got to remain there. All that just to run. Yeah. I hope somebody beats him that doesn't do that. Well, it's funny you said that, actually. Do you know about Emil Zatopek? No. Oh my God. This guy, he, the greatest endurance runner, in my opinion, to ever exist. He's amazing. So basically, to this day, no one's ever done what he did at the Olympics. Helsinki Olympics. Won the 5,000, won the 10,000. And then turned to his coach and he just went, I think I will run marathon tomorrow. And his coach was like, no, no, no, this is a terrible idea. You should not run the marathon. It's completely different events, you know, over twice as far. Emil, this is a terrible, an idea. And he turns and Emil just goes. And who is the favorite? And it was a British guy. So that was the British guy. He's, he's, everybody thinks he's going to win. And Emil goes, okay, no problem. What I do, I will run on his shoulder. And then just at the end, before we get into stadium, I go, boop. And I run around and I will finish. And the coach was like, please, Emil, this is just, you've got two gold medals. Please, let's just leave it there. And he goes, no, no, no, no. This documentary is amazing. It then cuts to the British guy who's older and he's recounting this, this entire race. And he says, I am, I'm running and things are going well. And then I, I feel on my shoulder, I feel this, this Emil just pops up on my shoulder. And Emil turns to me and goes, I, I'm so sorry. I've never run marathon before. So I don't know if it's too fast or too slow. And I thought to myself, you shit, I'm going to mess with you. I'm going to mess with your head. So I turned and I said, no, no, no, this is far too slow. We're in trouble. Thinking that would break him. And Emil just turned and went, no problem. I will see you at finish line and ran and won three gold medals, Helsinki Olympics. The reason I tell that story as well. Well, is not many people know. So his training, next time you're down an athletics track, he used to do 100, 400 meter sprints. What? Yeah. A sprint in a marathon. In a day? Yeah. Well, not a day, but, but he's, he pioneered interval training. People didn't think you could train that hard. There he is. Wow. Look, what I love as well is how he ran. He ran like he'd been shot in the leg. That's not Emil. What do you mean? He was just, there he is. There he is. So he runs like he's been shot in the leg. It's an ugly technique. Yeah. His head's wobbling. Yeah. This, and again, I think this is the marathon. So this is after he's already won the 5,000 and the 10,000. and here he is he looks like he's in agony yeah yeah so and the story goes with that as well and this is what i love so with somebody like him 100 400 meter sprints but his his wife was an amazing javelin thrower as well so date night for them is they'd go out and his wife would just like launch the javelin and he would go and get it like a dog and then come back and be like here you go babe she'd be like thanks babe that's hilarious he used to uh run with his wife on his back through the woods and then sometimes when he wasn't able to run because it was snowing too much or conditioning allow uh famously he would get in the bath and just basically just tread on on dirty laundry as well just to try to just wow as well so emile zatepec to your point i always find it fascinating that sometimes when you talk about people who are you know i've been training so hard i've sacrificed so much i'm like yeah that's great but i don't want to go against an emile zatepec someone who just loves it someone who just date night is running out their intervals bringing back well have you heard of that race they do where it's a race until everyone else drops out of course backyard ultras yeah yeah but it's there there can only be one one person can win oh yeah yeah that's amazing you must say i think chris williamson was talking about you know a mutual friend of ours talking about mark dowdle who was just basically like hunting and like just stalking the competition and it was called the last soul ultra yeah mark dowdle when this guy stopped like tie his shoelace mark was behind him and just hunting him like prey and they had them on the the night vision and they're like what is going on it's just mind games and so one person eventually doesn't quit exactly everybody else quits yeah exactly how long did they go these guys i think there's the current record i swear somebody did something like 91 hours yeah it's just it's just nuts it's just nuts i swear yeah oh my god i think it was phil jamie if you find a bit he recently yeah oh yeah mark dowdle that's when he won the last ultra 95 laps 636.5 kilometers the man last soul ultra oh my god but he talks about it as well what i love is he talks about actually collecting their souls so so at the end you're basically given a trinket which has got everybody sold on it and he's there like some ancient warrior holding it in a way he's kind of right oh there you go yeah he ran for 94 straight hours without sleep to win the last soul ultra 94 hours is crazy like what was he seeing what was he seeing at hour 92 how many elves did he come into contact with for sure he saw elves for sure for sure for sure there he is i'm on loop 72 yeah oh my god and the thing about him too is he's kind of a bigger guy i believe his background was lacrosse as well so he weight trains which goes back to what i was talking about before i mean he's kind of a big guy he's kind of a big guy he's kind of a big guy mechanotransduction strength reserve that you're that you'd say that doesn't make sense for an ultra endurance athlete but again i would argue that his biomechanics are just perfect and they won't break down compared to somebody who doesn't have that strength background um so they're actually yes the there's a backyard ultra he's actually doing it at the moment i think i'm 94 hours is but oh that was an update from now what's that video i just played with yeah they're doing it now so i think it's team america oh it's happening right now yeah on loop 54 right now on two hours ago and he's just on social media just talking for everything as well loop 54 how many days ago was that this is 20 20 hours yeah this is right now yeah he talks about like on the first 24 hours he's just like that's just your ticket you know that just gets you in the race it's now it begins and that's after 24 oh my god yeah i think and also four hours it's crazy it's nuts it's not i mean for me on some of my swims as well just those hallucinations like when they start like probably one of my worst was loch ness and that was before everything went really bad loch ness is basically really narrow um and when you look up at night it looked like there was loads of trees but the trees almost formed the silhouette of uh like a cruise ship i remember being like that's really weird i'm eating a banana and i'm looking up and all of a sudden the branches start waving and to me at the time i was like it looks like people have come to the side of the cruise ship to support me so my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm watching and all the crew and i'm just there eating a banana and i'm going guys thank you so much your support means especially two o'clock in the morning god bless you guys thank you like that and my girlfriend's like oh he's he's talking to the trees like he's thanking them for their support so sometimes oh here you go yeah that's when he's that's when he's stalking him he's just waiting behind him and he's like what are you doing but what i love it's all mind games i'm not going anywhere wow i think the reason i love mark as well is because he's bringing a level of gamesmanship and mind games that that wasn't really seen in ultra endurance right they're all supposed to be super supportive of each other exactly and i think you see in other sports as well but you can't be super supportive if there's only going to be one person standing exactly exactly i mean one of my favorite examples in in mma was uh uh yuri and uh perera where they were talking about no shamanic yeah and i'm like look whatever yuri was saying don't use any voodoo please don't use any magic i was like this is the greatest time in the ufc when someone's going you're not allowed to use magic i want a clean fight no magic it's amazing i mean on that note who do you think is the best at mind games uh in ufc history chael sonnen chael sonnen is really good but conor mcgregor is pretty damn good too conor mcgregor when he fought jose aldo he had jose aldo in a funk because aldo was a legend and he was respected by everyone and conor was just continually disrespecting him and just mocking him he stole his belt famously at the press conference he was in his fucking head you know but obviously that backfired against khabib because that shit didn't work on khabib khabib was on top of him punched him in the face saying let's talk now let's talk now he just punched him in the face let's talk now and conor was trying to say it's only business he's like come on we're talking this is what i find so strange that if aliens came down to this world and you had to explain to them like who is the best mixed martial artist you'd go okay so here's khabib uh devout muslim uh doesn't drink uh you know lives in the mountains and you go oh cool so that's the blueprint and you go ah well no sorry so there's a guy john jones over here it does coke it fucks everybody up there's outliers there's outliers there's outliers you know exactly yeah there's always like these bo jackson characters that could do anything there's there's there's people out there in the world that are outliers and it's uh very unusual when you stumble across them it's one of the things we love watching an outlier we love watching someone that's just like so unique and different than everyone else like wow yeah we love that like michael jordan uh tiger woods or someone who's just like above and beyond you're like wow we love that that was it definitely looking at like the hero's journey with joseph campbell good versus evil and with the whole daniel comey and john jones rivalry i was like oh this is it this is amazing this is you know the good and evil and this is and then you have something like john jones who just goes oh no that's that's not for me in boxing as well it was me and john jones and i was like oh this is it this is mayweather and i loved ricky hatton as well so when you saw mayweather there like if it doesn't make money it doesn't make sense on the bags and then you got ricky hatton having a cup of tea with his grandma and you're like oh this is it that's so wholesome that's a little bit of bullshit though ricky was a fucking animal he was an animal ricky hatton separated a lot of people from their consciousness he was an animal that was that was just a skill thing right okay but daniel comey is a good one they're teaching kids wrestling and you're like oh this is amazing and then yeah well you know john's not a bad guy he's just an animal i mean he's he's cut from a different cloth you know there's there's people in this world that are just wilder you know and it's one of the reasons why he's so good there's a certain element if you want to be a professional cage fighter you have to there's a certain amount of you have to have all these things to be the goat like john you have to have all these things like perfect technique incredible work ethic when he does work uh amazing talent and an iq for it it's that's a really underrated factor because john knows what to do with each famously will not take a fight on short notice even with a guy like chael sunnen who on paper you can wake john up at three o'clock in the morning he's gonna fuck chael sunnen up on paper no disrespect to chael he's a great fighter but there's levels and i think john is just on a complete and he's a larger man right chael did his some of his best work almost won the title against anderson silva at 185 john is never making it in the first place and i think that's something that john would not take a fight with chael sunnen on short notice and then when when he did take a fight with chael sun and he him up in the first round he just annihilated him even with a bad toe and well he smashed his toe in the process he was pushing off the ground so hard that he twisted his own toe around i think we isolated it in a replay where we could see the moment where his toe snapped and it was because he was delivering ground and pound with such force that as he was pushing off he snapped his own toe and turned it and to this day when he fights he has to tape those toes together to this day one of my favorite john jones is the uh the armbar with vito belfort oh yeah yeah completely hyper extended oh but it's another example of like guys won't tap if you break their arm you know they will hang on and then he wound up winning that fight by kimura in the next round yeah he got through that where most people would have tapped his arm was fucked and he couldn't fight for a long time after that because he had to rehabilitate that arm his arm was fucked oh yeah Yeah, look at that, I mean that is, and also that's Vitor who would was a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt under Carlson Gracie, elite armbar, and then he wound up tapping Vitor in the next round. Even with his fight with Gustafsson as well, it just, like, going back to that anterior metingular cortex, it just must be massive in him. Today is brought to you by the number one brand for better sex, Blue Chew. Blue Chew Gold is a four-in-one powerhouse that gets your brain and your body on the same page for sex. Two ingredients get the blood flow pumping, and two ingredients prime your brain for arousal. No overthinking, just peak performance in as little as 15 minutes. Look at the stats. Gold is three times stronger, five times faster, and eight times longer-lasting than old-school methods. Blue Chew Gold is the real deal. Right now, buy two months of Blue Chew Gold and get the third free with my code ROGAN. You'll also receive free overnight shipping. That's promo code ROGAN. Head over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information. Check it out. This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. This episode is brought to you by Takovas. All right, seriously, if you're looking for new boots or shoes this summer, you've got to check out Takovas. These guys make some super durable and handmade boots. Besides being incredibly comfortable right out of the box, they've also got some great slip-ons perfect for casual summer Fridays. Their stuff is built to last and made for long-term sex. Long, hot months ahead. And they look great with everything, from jeans to khakis to linen suits. Dress them up or down. Plus, they've got tons of options, from classic leathers to exotic hides, whatever lights your fire. So, whether it's your first pair or your 15th, you've got to check out Takovas, in-store or online at takovas.com. That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And write, get 10% off at takovas.com slash rogan when you sign up for email and text. Who do you think, I mean, there's obviously Gaethje, who do you think is one of the most durable, one of the most. Gaethje's probably the most durable guy ever, which is like incredible that Max Holloway knocked him out like that. But other guys had stopped him before too, but that's just a part of being a human being. If you're a human being and you get hit by the greatest fighters in the world, you get stopped. It's just how it is. It's just like there's, if you get hit clean, no matter who you are, some guys are more durable than other guys, but no matter who you are, if somebody head kicks you, if somebody hits you with a wheel kick or something like that, you're most likely going to go unconscious or close to it. Yeah. That's just a part of the game, a flying knee. Very few people can survive that. It's just, it's like one of those things where you get hit and you just step. Did you see the fight this weekend or two weekends ago, rather, with Johnny Walker? Oh, no. Yeah. Johnny Walker hit this dude a knee from the thigh clinch. A heavyweight. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just separated him from his consciousness. And this guy's a massive 265-pound man that he did it to. And it just proves my point. It's like no matter who you are, there's certain things, if you get hit with them, you just can't take it. Yeah. You just can't take it. And with the Max Holloway fight with Justin, that was in a five-round war. He had been beaten up because he got hit with a jump-spinning back kick to the face at the end of the fight. And at the end of the first round, shattered his nose. So his nose bone was broken. So he's compromised from the end of the first round on. And then Max is hitting him with all these shots. And then finally, in the fifth round, in a fight that Max is winning, Max points to the ground and says, let's just stand and throw. And they just wail at each other. And Max famously knocks him out. Like one of the greatest. But that's not indicative of how durable he is. It's like most people would have never made it to that fifth round. He's insanely durable. And that's why you saw that fight with Ilya Topalov. He weathered that second round and came back strong in the third. Like maybe the most durable guy in the sport. And the most calm under fire. Like he never. It never changes his expression. He never looks lost. Even when he's getting hurt, he never looks out of it. He just looks hurt. But he's always like. Like he went back to his corner after the second round with Topalov. Topalov dropped him with a liver shot. He goes, nice liver shot. He said nice liver shot. He got him with a nice body shot. He was like complimenting his opponent for hitting him in a good spot. He was like that calm. Like that was nice. Nice liver shot. I feel like it's almost like Emil Zatopek. It's genuine. You've seen in the corner. He's having the best time. I'm just like, oh, you're wired different. He's wired different. Justin's wired very different. He's wired very different. He's very smart. Like he's a smart meathead. Like people think of him as being a dumbass because he's like silly and he does back flips and uh-uh. He's thought it out. Like he knows what he's doing. Like he's. He's doing things that are very intelligent in there. And he has a bunch of things that he does that he does better than anybody else. And one of them is the uppercut from the collar tie. He does this collar tie uppercut and he hits everybody with it because he's a really good wrestler. Even though he doesn't use his wrestling in MMA, he started out as a wrestler and he's a very good athlete. And he's got this collar tie uppercut that he catches everybody with. And he pulls you into that uppercut, man. He fucks a lot of guys up with that. That's one of his signature moves. But you've spoke about it as well with his wrestling in the past. I think this is so interesting. Going back to what we said about the ventral striatum, the part of the brain that when things aren't going well, it almost implodes. Like losing feels so bad. But I think wrestlers are just used to just getting beaten up, beaten up. One of the best examples on the swim, I have a friend who's in the special forces. I was just every single tide, every single swim, I was just behind. I was behind. It was just again, like I said, just biochemically, neuroscience, I was just imploding. And he turned to me and this really helped me to sort of change my perspective on things. He said, Ross, in the special forces, we're not seeing how well you can win. We're seeing how well you can lose. Time and time again. I said, well, what do you mean? He goes, there was one particular exercise that we did. Basically, you're on the assault bike, heart rate over 180 and they're checking heart rate monitor. So you are redlining, coughing up a lung, breathing. They get you off the assault bike. They take you into a room. There's a guy there who's like six foot six, just huge. And then there's a door behind him and they say, okay, you need to get past him behind that door. Your friends, platoon, regiment are over the other side of the door. So they just run in. This guy, six foot six, is there just holding you. And then there's a guy with a clipboard in the corner. Guy with clipboard gives a nod. Bang! Knocks them clean out. He's out cold. The next thing he knows, he's being brought back round with smelling salts and he gets up like that and there's in his face going, do you want to quit? Do you want to quit? And my friend at the time was just like, no, no, I'm good. And they said, they let him up. He goes again, starts wrestling. This massive six foot six guy waits for the signal. Guy with a clipboard nods. Bang! Knocked down again. Did it three times, brought them back round. And then they go, okay, you passed, you passed. What was interesting is my friend said, one guy actually made it past and got to the door only to find it was bolted shut. You were never going to win, like ever. But that's not what they were testing. They were testing your ability to lose time and time again. Oh, that's terrible for you. No, it's bad. But that idea of just sheer adversity. The idea is interesting. However, it could be concussions. Repeated concussions could change a person's life. For sure. Yeah. You knock a guy out, a big giant guy knocks you out three times. That's a terrible idea. For sure. You sure he was punching them? He was punching them in the face? The way that the story was told to me, yeah. I know. I mean, there's some selection. Some of my friends in the special forces, some of the stories they tell me about selection, I'm like, that is brutal. But then you realize that's why they're mentally bulletproof. Do you know who Mr. Ballin is on YouTube? No. A really interesting guy. He's got a great YouTube channel. Where he tells all these crazy, spooky, mystery stories. But he's a Navy SEAL. A former Navy SEAL. And one of the things that he said about what the people that make it through BUDS, two people that do really well, two groups of people, one of them is wrestlers. Because they're just mentally tough. They're like, they're training and constantly being dehydrated and tired and just pushing and taking satisfaction being the most miserable. That's one of the things that wrestlers do. They take satisfaction suffering the most. They do really well and then water polo players. And then I was like, wow, why water polo? And then I didn't know that water polo players never touch the ground. They're constantly treading water while they're playing that fucking game. Like, you have to be in insane shape to be in water polo. I never would have thought of water polo. So you know that was my background, by the way. I didn't. Yeah, so I played England schoolboys all the way through to international. Well, that makes sense. No, no, no. But I love that you brought that up because it's absolutely true. Again, there's a famous very famous match. It was basically called Blood in the Water and it was the Hungarians versus the Soviets. And they were at war. So they were actually at war. The Hungarians were training under gunfire, bombs going off and everything. They then drew each other. I can't remember the name. It might have been the Melbourne Olympics, I believe, in the semifinals. They drew each other. There's famous pictures where basically the water just went red. Blood in the Water. That's what it was called, the match. And they just go at it. So they were at war with each other in real life. Yeah. And then they drew each other. So the Hungarians were at war with the Russians and then they went to war in volleyball, in water polo. In water polo. Yeah, they got put against each other and they just go at it. It's nuts. I mean, even like, you can't see, but under my tongue, it's all a little bit of a mess under there because I remember I was playing water polo and we were in the south of France. I come over the top like that and as I do, I catch an elbow and I just like bite down. My tongue must have been out and so it cut my tongue in half. And then I remember you then have to defend. It's kind of like basketball constantly back and forth like that. It's that quick. Why have you got a mouth full of blood? Oh, there we go. Yeah. Blood in the water. Yeah. Wow. So they're just fighting each other. Yeah. I think Hungary won, I believe, 4-0. You have to be in insane shape. Yeah. To do that game. They're trained. I always found this interesting because I made the England schoolboy squad at 13 and I was playing against under 18. So I was the wrong side of puberty. And I was just like playing against these just like men who were trained in like water jiu-jitsu. So I would throw a punch and then I'd just be under the water. So you fight all the time in that? All the time. So it's like hockey. It's exactly, yeah. Hockey in the water. It's exactly that. Yeah, yeah. So one guy's helped hold me down. Oh my God, I might be my new favorite sport. Are they still allowed to fight? Yeah, yeah. If you put on YouTube, just put underwater fights, water polo. Just put it on and they'll have cameras at the Olympics. And it's absolutely, I mean, also. In the Olympics currently, you're still allowed to fight? For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, some of the women. Are they allowed to fight in the Olympics in hockey? Oh, I don't know. Probably not. I don't know. That's weak. Weak sauce. That's part of the game. It's, I mean, I come. They have boxing. They have boxing in the Olympics and you won't let people fight in hockey? That's whack. Agreed. But yeah, so back to my tongue. I come over the top. What'd you say, Jamie? Strictly prohibited in the Olympics. Strictly. Certainly not in water polo. You still see it. So in water polo, they still get after it? The women's game's worse as well because obviously they've got more of a suit to grab hold of as well. Oh. Some of the underwater. Pulling boobs out. There are boobs that come out. There are indeed. But I, yeah, come over the top. Bang. Take basically, and it splits my tongue in half. And I remember I then sprinted back to defend because they were, Ross, defend, defend. So I sprint all the way back and you can imagine now, blood is just pumping around my body. My heart is going nuts. And I stop and there's just blood everywhere. Like the whole water has just turned red around me. But I don't notice. I think it's somebody else. So I go, guys, guys, stop, stop. Someone's been here. And then I look and everyone in the, stands is looking at me. And as they did, I remember, it's almost like, you know, when you've got like toffee or something in your mouth stuck in your teeth. Well, that was my tongue. So I was like, I was going like this, trying to spit whatever it was out. And then I looked and it was just flapping. And they were like, no, no, no, you're done. And I got out. They sewed it up. That's why it's a mess underneath. Oh, boy. Yeah. How long does that take to heal? Well, weirdly, the tongue heals really quickly. Yeah. So it wasn't, wasn't too long. I was good in about a week. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was pretty bad. But it's the same in Malta as well. So it's, it's a huge in Malta. But out there, they will just put gold in the middle of the sea and just start playing. So we would go out. And if you're in gold and jellyfish come over, that is, that is just part of the game. Warrior people. Let me see a water polo fight. Yeah, I'm on it. It's not that. Not that exciting? No, it's tough to see. We'd have to curate. I mean, it's a lot. Find a good one. It's a lot of dudes in really small bathing suits. It's moving very slowly because it's underwater. Right. Let me see. And it's also in slow motion. Oh, it's slow-mo. Also, they're showing these guys hitting each other in slow-mo. It's really hard to catch it, I think, as fast movement's happening because. It's just the amount of endurance that you have to have to play a game like this. How long are your periods? Like, how long are you playing for? Four quarters. Depends on the age. But yeah, four, four, four, four-minute quarters, four, five-minute quarters. So for four minutes, you're treading water and sprinting. It's weird. You're exactly right. It's swimming mixed with BJJ. Whoa, people are fighting. It's swimming mixed with, like, yeah, BJJ. I mean, Hungary are amazing. Oh, they're smacking each other in the face and shit. Oh, that guy's choking that guy. Oh, they literally hold on to each other. Yeah. And then they swing it. Oh, this is crazy. There we go. Oh, my God. This is crazy. Oh, my God. This is crazy. It's pretty standard. This is just, yeah. This is normal. Even at a local competition, that's pretty standard. No wonder why these guys make good seals. Yeah, yeah. You're literally drown-proofing yourself. Like, there's sometimes. When I'm caught in an Arctic storm, I'm like, it's not as bad as playing Hungary. Like, the amount of times I was so close to drowning, it was nuts. That's crazy. Yeah. And I think especially as well, I was always so young. Like I said, I made the under-18 England schoolboys team when I was 13. And we were playing against Malta at the time. And they were just, like, big, like, beards, playing against Hungary. And I just learned very quickly to be comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, that Justin Gaethje stress inoculation training. Ever since, when I swim now, and they're like, Ross, there's an Arctic storm. I go, still got my tongue. Fuck, dude. It's not too bad. You know, we were talking about Carlos Prates in that video that I was watching about the fighting nerds, about how the guy, like, emulates animals and stuff. One of the things that they were talking about is how Carlos had a losing record early in his career. It's like, or close to it. It's like five wins, four losses or something like that. It wasn't doing well, the first nine fights of his career. And then he decides to go to Thailand. And he flies to Thailand. And the only way to make any money in Thailand is you have to fight. So he winds up fighting, like, every week. So he fights, like, six times in a month. And he's, like, fighting constantly. But because of that constant fighting, then he gets, like, really accustomed and calm fighting. He has over 100 Muay Thai fights. So he's fighting all the time. And it just becomes relaxed to him. And so when you see him fight, he's always smiling and having fun in there. It's because he's fought so many times. That he's sort of that fear of whatever that experience is like. For most people, it's, like, this daunting thing. They lock the cage door. Holy shit. This guy is smoking cigarettes the week of the fight, smoking cigarettes the day of the fight, drinking, partying, just dead relaxed when he gets in there and fucking everybody up. Like, literally, world-class fighters like Jack de la Maddalena, who was the former world champion, beat the fuck out of him in his home country of Australia. Just beats his ass in, like, a ferocious way. Where you're watching, like, wow. Like, the level, the gap between them is so vast. And he's just essentially a product of that. Of just, like, being in the fire for so long. You just get forged. Like, constantly fighting. See, I love that. That goes back to, like, the ancient Stoics. Epic Titus famously. I love this term. He said getting wintered. He said that wars were fought in the summer, but what you do in the winter has a profound impact on how well prepared you are. So, they would just be doing a cold, hard winter's training. The Spartans, as well, famously, would be given essentially a loincloth and just been told to endure the winter to fight, you know, for your food. You know, so you just create these crazy warriors. And I think now we're getting modern versions. I think the closest, you know, our mutual friend Liam Harrison, but he's just, he's wired different. Yeah, I told him he fights like he has rabies. Absolutely. That's the best way to put it. He's like a little. He's like a little demon. But what I love about Liam is, if anyone's ever spent any time around him, and he won't mind me saying this, but he's like vibrating. He's definitely got ADHD. But now there's so many studies with fighters saying those with ADHD actually process things so much quicker. I don't even believe in ADHD. Oh, you don't? No. I don't think it's a disease. Or that your dopamine works differently. I don't think it's a disorder. I think it's a superpower. I think we are conditioning children to sit in a classroom and do something that's insanely boring. And some people can endure it, and God bless them. And some people are not designed for it, and I'm one of them. And I don't think ADHD is a problem at all. Oh, I agree. Not a problem. Yeah. I think it gives you the ability to concentrate on things that you love to an extent that most people cannot fathom. Mm. Oh, I agree. You get obsessed at things. I could play pool for 10 hours in a row, and I don't eat. I just drink coffee and play pool, and I don't have any problem with that. And everybody else wants to quit. I want to keep going forever. That's ADHD. Yeah, yeah. And I see it in other people that are great at things. Gordon Ryan, for sure. Sure, he's got it. He fucking trains 365 days a year. It's both things. It's discipline, but it's also this obsession that comes from if you were in school, they would say you have a disorder. There's something wrong with you. Why can't you sit down and do this boring shit all day? Well, because I don't like that. But if you sit those kids down in front of a computer and let them play video games, look at all the concentration they have. Look at all the focus they have. Look at how locked in they are in what they're doing. I don't believe in it. I believe it's a thing. I don't believe it's a disorder. And by the way, I'm not. I'm unsympathetic to the varying degrees that people suffer from all sorts of disorders. I think for some people, it probably is some sort of a real genuine issue, right, where they can't focus it and it's not something they can concentrate on other things that they love. They're just constantly scattered. I'm not talking about that. I think it's entirely over-diagnosed. And I think there's a lot of people that are just people that are just not wired to follow the standard norm of what I think is a very boring structure. of most schoolwork and most school, like most of what you have to endure when you're a young kid is sitting down when you have the most energy. You just woke up, okay? You're fully rested. You ate breakfast. It's probably filled with sugar and you're just fucking piping. You're sitting in that chair going, Jesus Christ, I don't give a fuck about Hitler. Why am I in this class worrying about World War II? I'm 10. I want to go outside. I want to play ball. I want to run around with my friends. I want to do fun things. This sucks. And they'll tell you, you need to get on Ritalin. They'll say, Billy can't concentrate. Billy doesn't know how to count. I completely, because I think to that point, exactly. Friends of mine have said like, Ross, you have definitely traits of ADHD. And again, I'm the same as you. I don't like that term because I always just say my dopamine works a little bit differently. And what I mean by that sometimes as well is even understanding the sort of biochemistry on 400 milligrams of caffeine, and then maybe like cognizant for acetylcholine as well. So I'm playing- Cognizant? It basically is a supplement, a nootropic that will positively interact with acetylcholine, which is a neurotransmitter that is less jacked up. You're just kind of done. in and focused. That and AlphaGPC. If I take that combination, I am just dialed in and just swimming every single stroke. I'm just there like going good, high elbow, good. And so are you like constantly filling up in that stuff? Are you like replenishing your stock as you're swimming? Yeah. AlphaGPC, I know Huberman talks about you have to cycle that, so that I will. But certainly with caffeine and cognizant, I'll be having that pretty much on most swims. AlphaGPC, you have to cycle in terms of like how often can you take it? Huberman talks about every two days and then three days off, I think, that sort of cycle. Yeah, you can build up a very quick tolerance to it. Interesting. Two days and then three days off. But this other stuff, cognizant, you said, so what is in that? So that's the ingredient, that's the nootropic. I hope I'm getting this right. So it is an actual, it's not a combination of things? No, no, no, no. And that affects acetylcholine, which is amazing just for their just focus. Do you ever take acetylcholine by itself? No, so that's the neurotransmitter. Or AlphaGPC, do you ever take that? AlphaGPC, yeah. Yeah, AlphaGPC, yeah, there you go. So it's a patented, branded form of acetylcholine, a natural brain nutrient and nootropic ingredient used in dietary supplements, energy drinks, and functional beverages. I like that term, functional beverages. Isn't everything beverage functional? You know, you're getting hydrated, you're getting drunk, you're getting caffeinated. These are functional. But will you do that as well? Whether you're training or dialed in on something, you'll know how your brain runs. You'll say, yeah. You know what really helps me is creatine. Creatine is a big one. And I only become aware of that over the last, I don't know, a few years or so, that how much of an effect it has on mental focus. And one of the things that they've shown is people with sleep deprivation, that when you have, were sleep deprived, when you take, I think it's 10 or 20 milligrams. It's a lot. It's a lot, right? Yeah. 20? Is it 20 grams? I think it's more than that. Is it? So whatever it is, I believe it's 20 grams or above, whatever it is. Whatever the number is, let's find out what the number is just so we can help people. I think it's 20, yeah. It severely mitigates the negative aspects of sleep deprivation in terms of cognitive function, memory, all those different things. And I find that, I've done a bunch of podcasts where, like I said, I play pool a lot. I have a real problem. And sometimes I'll come home from the comedy club and it'll be midnight and I'm wired from hanging out and- Oh, 25, 30. 25, 30 grams for many adults. That's a small study. Strongest acute study is large. Okay. Not a normal daily maintenance dose. Okay, so if you're tired, take 25 to 30 grams. And then that's the response. And normally, I take 10 or 20. That's my normal. And that's cognitively, then you'll be back to baseline? Allegedly. It's hard to know. I mean, we all vary daily. I have days where I come in and I'm like, "Ooh, I'm firing today." And then other days where I'm like, "I can't even remember words. How the fuck am I doing this for a living?" You know, your brain is very, it's like the fucking earth temperature. It fucking fluctuates a lot. That is exactly it. And certainly on my longer swims. Now, creatine, I actually didn't do that during the Yukon swim. So weirdly, there's just a part of me that does want to go back just to actually trial that. Because towards the end of the Yukon swim, I was in pieces. So I would love to see if I could actually supplement to go that much further. And I think creatine was one that I would love to add to the arsenal. So here's what Jamie just pulled up. It says, "As part of the study, 15 test subjects were kept awake overnight and had to solve cognitive tasks during this time. Sleep deprivation tends to lead to changes in brain metabolism that promote the cellular uptake of creatine. Beforehand, the test subjects have received a high single dose of creatine, an important metabolic product that is found in food, and it can also be produced by the body itself. Three hours after taking the creatine, a positive effect on the brain metabolism and cognitive performance of the test subjects could already be observed. The effect reached its peak after four hours. It lasted up to nine hours. In particular, the improvements in processing capacity and short-term memory were seen. The results suggested that a single but high dose of creatine enhances thinking capacity and causes changes in the brain's energy reserves during sleep deprivation." I wonder what it does if you're not sleep deprived. What if you're a kid and you have to take your ACTs or something like that? What would that do for you? That is interesting. Because I think that's the next frontier almost as well. I think we've known small test subject, right? But it's still, if you get a significant result from 15 people and you can measure the changes. I'd like to see it on a large study, but it's interesting. What are a lot of the athletes using now in the AC supplement wise? Creatine is for sure one of them. But the issue with creatine is also it helps you put mass on. And a lot of these guys are trying to lose weight. So I don't know what they're doing in terms of like there's some guys that are extreme weight cutters. There's guys that are cutting 20 pounds, 30 pounds the week of the fight. And rehydrating to a ridiculous extent, like before the fight. Like Alex Pereira is the greatest example. Alex would gain 40 pounds when he was fighting at 185 pounds. So he's fighting at 185 and he would weigh in on fight day at 225, 226, which is nuts. Yeah. I always love Rob Whittaker when he's like, "Who let this guy in?" It's also saying don't take that much. Right. Don't take that much. Even once it says- Oh, even once it's bad?. it's risky because it can put a heavy strain on the kidneys. It says for the time being, however, it's not advisable for people to take such a high dose of creatine at home as high doses of the substance put a heavy strain on the kidneys and can cause health risks. I wonder if you could mitigate that strain by hyper- It said it was temporary too. It's temporary. Yeah, for sure. It says four hours. But what's temporary? The gain of cognitive effects. Well, for the large dose, right? For sleep deprived people. It's risky. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, I don't think. But I think one dose is probably akin to one night of drinking. I don't think it's that bad. I think the real problem is you can't take that amount every day. No. What is. I know people that take 20 grams a day though. There's so many people though that are just redlining. And the thing is, it's like their biology might be different than your biology. Some people, they don't have a problem drinking every day. Shane Gillis can just drink every day. He got his liver tested. He's like, "I'm going to take 20 grams." He got his liver tested. He's fine. And we were all like, "What?" I'm fascinated by this. How the fuck? Like I said, for future swims, I think certainly at 41 years old, I'm kind of as fit as I'm going to be. This is the new frontier for me, looking at nootropics. I know where. I bet hypoxia training too. You think? Yeah, that could add. Yeah. Yeah. I really do. I think it just raises your capacity. I think it changes the red blood cell count in your body. That's it. Yeah. Just like EPO does, right? Yeah. Aggregation of marginal gains. Now, I'm just at a point where I'm like, "Right, where can I just get 1% here, there, and everywhere?" Are you using sauna regularly? Not as often as I should be. Yeah. God, that should be a daily for you. Yeah. You think? And even doing my cardio in there as well. Yeah. Well, yeah, you can. I mean, that's one of the aspects of the Exalt Chamber. So, they do two different types of training in it. One type of training is high altitude. The other type is high heat. So, I'll do sessions in there at 100 degrees. And so, yeah, it's not high altitude. It's regular altitude. It's counterproductive to do the two of them together. Yeah, because it's blood plasma. According to the guys who are smart. The thing you're doing is when you are at high altitude, your heartbeat is naturally lower. It's difficult to get your heartbeat that high because there's no oxygen in the air. When you're at high heat, your heart rate is high immediately. One of the things that I do. Yeah. I'll do bag work. I do heavy bag rounds. And then after the rounds, I jump right into the sauna. So, I go from being exhausted. I give myself. Just so I'm not dying, so I could breathe normal. Like at the end of the rounds, I'm usually like really breathing heavy. I drink some electrolytes. I always bring a big 64-ounce jug of water with ice and electrolytes in it. And then I go in 196 degrees. And I sit in there for 20, 25 minutes, and I wear one of those straps. Yeah. One of those heart rate monitors. And my shit will be at like 147, 148 the entire time I'm sitting there because it never got to go down. So, it's jacked up from the workout, right? Yeah. And then I go right in. And I might be at 100 when I step in there and it goes right back up. Right back up. So, like 10, 15 minutes in there, I'm just sitting there and I'm at one. Especially when I start doing heavy stretches, which is why I do a lot of. I find that you can do stretches when you're in that 195 degree, 196 degree heat that you're just not going to be able to pull off. And so, I force my tissue to just force it into position and hold it. And that really jacks your heart rate up. Then I'll get into the 150s. Because I love. To go on a bit of a tangent as well, like now, there's so many good meta studies on. So, studies of lots of studies of ultra endurance athletes, but some of the best now, these aren't guys just like hanging in there. These guys are winning between 30 five up to 50. You know, those like grizzly old guys and old women who are just amazing. Don't you think that's mental though? Like your mind gets harder as you get older. This is exactly what I was about to jump on. So, I think there's a few things. One is capillary density, mitochondrial efficiency. That you only get after like years and years and years. So, it's like when you're younger, VO2, lactic threshold, elasticity of tendons, all of those things absolutely are better when you're younger. And that's why you see so many 100 meter champion athletes. Right. That's why you see so many 100 meter, you know, champions and sprinters. They're always younger. But now, I think all of those things that you're talking about now, heat adaptation, hyperbaric chambers, everything like that, hypoxic chambers, sorry, everything like that is just trying to create, I think now, a new generation of older athletes. And we're even it. 39 years old, Alex Pereira? Yes. Yohan Romero 49? Yeah, yeah, but he is off the charts. He makes no sense. That's an outlier. He's an outlier. He's another guy. He is, yeah. He's so unusual. When you look at him, he doesn't seem like he's aging. It's insane. You know, and he still moves like a cat at 49 years old. Did you see his bare knuckle fight that he had with Darren Till? Crazy. I know. Knocked Darren Till down. Arguably could have won that fight. I know. You know, it was a very close fight, but arguably you could have given the. A lot of people online thought Yohan won that fight. Yeah. 49. Yeah. I think we're seeing it across the board now as well. Like, Kipchoge won the very recent marathon. Was it Melbourne? I can't remember. You got Messi, you got Ronaldo. Messi's only just retired. Ronaldo. LeBron. I think LeBron makes no sense because everything that I just described there, your proportion of fast twitch fibers reduces as you get older. Elasticity of tendons. Yeah. So I understand if you're Messi, who's just amazing. His vision of the game and everything. He can sit there in midfield just spraying the ball. But LeBron makes no sense. Well, LeBron is meticulous in his rehabilitation. Meticulous. He spends an incredible amount of time. Like, famously spends millions of dollars just on rehabilitating his body every year. Wow. On massage and all different therapies and he's doing everything. And I'm sure he's. I don't know what the rules are in the NBA with peptides and all that other jazz, but I'm sure he's on all that stuff too. Right. I mean, if he's not, I'd be stunned. Like, why wouldn't you be? That's crazy. That's crazy. You know, why wouldn't you be on BPC-157 and TB-500 and if you're allowed to be, you should definitely be on testosterone and definitely be on some sort of human growth hormone, either something that pumps it up, like semoralin, which, like, naturally makes your body produce more human growth hormone. Something that allows his body to regenerate tissue and heal quicker. He has to be on something. I mean, I would imagine. Otherwise, it's crazy that he could perform form. Because one of the things that we talk about a lot, or I talk about a lot, with Cyril Ghosn, who's the UFC heavyweight champion, is that Cyril has a background in basketball. And I think that's a factor. Because I think his movement, his ability to move, it's like basketball, you're doing plyometrics all the time. What's the rules? Synthetic and growth hormone-releasing peptides are banned in the NBA. Are they testing them? What is banned? Gross hormone-releasing peptides, growth hormone. secretagogues. How do you say that word? Secretagogues? Secretagogues. And other synthetic compounds designed to stimulate growth hormone or enhance recovery are strictly prohibited. But what about BPC-157? BPC-157 was weird, because it was allowed by WADA, and then it was banned. It should be allowed. All it does is regenerate tissue, or rather help heal tissue. It's banned. Banned in the NBA. It's classified as an unapproved substance under the World Anti-Doping Agency. It's in the agency's prohibited list, and follows broader anti-doping policies against unapproved peptides and experimental drugs. Listen, man, there's zero studies that show there's any negative effects of BPC-157. And there's a lot of at least anecdotal evidence, first and foremost, that it's very beneficial for people recovering from injuries. But then there's others, also studies, that indicate that it really is helpful for people. So someone was suspended. No, I was looking this up because last year this player was on the Lakers. Luka Doncic very famously got hurt right before the playoffs started, and he went to Spain to get treated and did not get better. And what that treatment was, was not really publicly talked about. People were saying, you know, get him on stem cells, get him on BPC-157, get him back so he can play. I don't know. If they are doing it, they have to take time off so they can hide, you know, from tests. Right. Sort of like Conor did when he broke his leg, right? He got out of the doping pool. Right. Yeah. And then he got jacked. And they go, fuck you, Jack. And he became Wolverine. He got super jacked. He looked like you. All of a sudden, he weighed 220 pounds, fucking jacked. I don't know if he got that big. But the point is, like, I think at least peptides that help injuries. Listen, you're dealing with a sport where your primary goal is to create an injury on your opponent. And you're practicing injuring each other all day long. You're going to get injuries. And anything that would help these athletes get to the finish line, like get to the cage in reasonable health, because they're always banged up. Like, whenever you see, even at a world championship level, when you see a guy who looks awesome, guarantee that guy's dealing with some shit. Guarantee that guy's got a sore hand, fucked up shoulders, knee hurts. Something's wrong. There's no way you get through a 12-week camp with a bunch of fucking trained assassins and you don't get banged up. You're getting banged up. And BPC 157 would help those people. But they're also doing, there's a lot of stuff these guys are doing now. A lot of guys are invested in hyperbaric chambers. They're doing a lot of hyperbaric things. They're doing a lot of hyperbaric therapy, which really does accelerate healing from injuries and just general overall recovery from just life itself. I mean, it's incredible. They were amazing for me. Like we were talking about earlier, when I tore most of the tendons in my rotator cuff, that was after the Yukon. And the doctor was like, how did you not know? And I was like, well, I had hypothermia and I was trying to dodge bears. I had other stuff on my mind at the time. If I was a doctor, I'd be so pissed. I'd be so pumped to talk to you. I'd be like, whoa. Like, look, this is an interesting study. Right, right. Like, what? What did you say? But it was new stem cells were amazing. And then hyperbaric, red light therapy. I did everything. And that got me back to the start line, ready for Iceland. I think without it, I might have needed them reattached with surgery. So that's how good they were for me. Yeah, it's extraordinary what they can do now. And it keeps getting better. And, you know, in this country, there's this battle between, you know, there's this battle between, you know, the pharmaceutical drug companies that want to, they want to patent these peptides, and they want to profit off of them. And then there's also a lot of people who don't want people taking these therapies, because it will cost them money in terms of the amount of orthopedic surgeries they get. That's a real thing. And they have influence. And it's a real problem. And unfortunately, people are willing to sacrifice the greater health and recovery of the entire population for their own personal gain. And that's dark, but accurate. Agreed. Yeah. And if we were really smart, we would be investing an incredible amount of money into studying these things. And there's not just that. They're helping people with neurological conditions. They're helping people recover from, like, Parkinson's syndrome or Parkinson's symptoms. You know, they're doing them intranasally for people that have lung disorders. Like, there's a lot of, like, really good work that's being done with stem cells. Does it mean they all are the same and they all work right? No. It's like, they're shady places. This is also part of the problem. Like, if you're traveling to some godforsaken part of the world to go do this therapy because it's not legal in America, okay, well, you got to be real careful where you're going. You know, there's some places like the CPI, which is in Tijuana. It's very ethical. And they do everything really great. But there's other places where I've heard people get infected. They have, like, horrible disease. You know, they get staph infections and wind up almost paralyzed. A lot of fucked up things can happen when you're doing this stuff if you don't go to a good place. Yeah. But it. The bottom line is, though, that's a problem with all medical interventions. That's a problem with surgery. That's a problem with, like, it's a big. One of the main killers in this country, I think it's. We talked about this recently. It's like the number three killer in this country is medical mishaps. Like, it is either misdiagnosis or bad treatment or some sort of a mistake that someone makes. It's a problem. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's a problem. It's like human beings are very vulnerable. And, you know, so it's not a cure all, but it is a very promising therapy. And for people that have had incredible results, and I'm one of them, from stem cells, like, I'm screaming from the rooftops, like, hey, let's not just throw the baby out with the bathwater with this stuff. This should be. You should. We can help a lot of folks who have a lot of, like, real serious problems with this shit. That's what they said to me. They were like, Ross, you know, this would have been a death sentence for your career. You know, you'd have swum around Great Britain. You've just done the Yukon. You're good. You're done. You know, whereas it's amazing now I've seen it that it's just managed to extend my career, you know, just a little bit more. I think that's. And just also for people that aren't professional athletes, just extend your health. A hundred percent. Like, so many people that have had, like, these injuries, like, a good friend of mine had a knee problem. And, you know, he's not an athlete. He's just a guy who runs, and his knee was in pain all the time. I brought him into Wastewell. He got a shot in his knee. This was two years ago. And he's like, I run all the time. It never bothers me now. I'm like, that's nuts, man. That didn't exist before. Agreed. That didn't exist. Agreed. And I think this is just the beginning. I think we're at the beginning of this stuff. They keep coming out with new innovations and new therapies that are even more effective. Mu stem cells being one of the greatest ones that's more recent. I agree. I agree. They need more studies, more stuff, more work. This is going to help a lot of fucking people, man. And, you know, we have to be really careful as to what influence we're receiving as to why this is a bad thing. You know, I think this is a real problem in this country in particular. Because this country is like so ate up with money. You know, money influences so many narratives in this country. It distorts reality. You're looking at everything through a funhouse mirror lens. You know, it's hard to tell what's what. What's good for you, what's bad for you, what should be recommended, what should be never taken, you know. My hospital visit on that note was so bad at the end. The rotator cuffs was also like the. How bad was the food? It was pretty good, actually. It was in Canada, in the Yukon. It was pretty good. Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They give you moose meat, moose meat and pancakes. - I genuinely did. - Did they give you mousse? - Yeah, yeah. And jerky as well. Oh, it was so good. That's incredible. Yeah, it was amazing. Fuck yeah, Canada. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Indeed. In America, you'd get fucking Fruit Loops, a bowl of Fruit Loops to recover. It was amazing. But we, oh, I'm going to apologize now for this story, but basically, during the Yukon swim, I had a specially made wetsuit. So, because I can't touch the boat, no one can touch me, I can't touch land, going to the toilet was obviously problematic. Oh, boy. Right, right. So, you'd have like one of them hatches out the back? Is exactly it. Yeah, we had a poo flap made. Like, it's just this zip. Yeah, a poo flap made. So, we had a poo flap made on the suit. It worked in training. We then, we took it on the swim. To this day, I think we were honestly about six hours into what was a 60-hour swim. Six hours in. I didn't even think about pooping. Yeah. You don't know, do you? That's what will, the whole expedition will come unstuck because of that. We're six hours in. To this day, I still don't know if the poo flap was in the wrong place or my bum hole is in the wrong place. But, I end up going to the toilet. And, it doesn't work. Like, what was meant to clear the wetsuit doesn't clear the wetsuit. So, it's filling your suit up with poop. Exactly that. Yeah, yeah. I'm then faced with a decision. And, this goes back to what we were talking about. Your anterior mid-singulate cortex. In that moment, pain versus purpose. Grit or quit. I'm like, Ross, if you quit, you are going to be known as the guy who soiled himself and gave up in the Yukon. Or, do you zip it up and just, and keep going? So, I zipped it up. I kept going. Oh, you're swimming in your own poop. But, it was even worse. It was a black wetsuit. So, it was essentially just baking. You know, like a slow cooker. I know. So, none of it got out? All of it was in there? I would say 90% remained. 90%. Could you reach in and grab it as you're swimming? No, no, no, no, no. Clean out the. No, no, no, no, no. There was no reaching in. I'm so sorry, Jamie. I'm so sorry. So, anyway, yeah. At the end of the swim, when they're taking me to hospital, I turn to everybody. And, I just go, you know, guys. And, again, the people in Canada, the team that we had are amazing. They're from the Yukon. You know, they kill bears. They gut wolves. They've seen everything. And, they're like, Ross, don't you worry. And, I said, no, guys. I'm going to apologize now. I saw myself in my wetsuit. And, it's been baking for what has been 55 hours. They cut me out of my wetsuit. They cut me out. And, they go, Ross, don't worry. We're here. We're a brotherhood. We've been preserved. They did. They did. They did. And, they went, we're here. Oh, God. And, they fought. So, I'm left there with a flannel just covering myself. Oh, and you just baked poo all over you. Yeah. So, like I said, when they said, how did you not realize you'd torn your tendons in rotation? I was like, because I soiled myself. Because, bears and wolves were after me. Very reasonable explanation for why you didn't notice that you were in pain. Does it cause staff in any way to be performed? Oh, 100%. It weirdly does. All kinds of stuff. Probably sepsis. Sepsis. Who knows what that does to you? That's got to be terrible. You're scratching yourself. And, then there's poo all over your butt. Oh, the inside of your legs. Would you have carried on? Oh, good Lord. I don't know. I hope so. I hope I'd be as strong as you. No one knows until you do it, right? Well, I think that's one of the things that the kind of events that you participate in really genuinely does. Like, it changes people's expectations of what's physically and humanly possible. And, they all have to look at themselves and say, okay, maybe I can do more than I think I can. And, I think even though these are extremes, and I think most people are not going to swim for 60 hours, what they're going to get out of that is this understanding that you're capable of so much more than you think. Than you think you are. And, just raising of expectations or at least raising of the limits of the possible. What is possible? And, I think that alone is like a great benefit to people. I'm so glad you said that. That's exactly what I say. When I say I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You know, it's a terrible lifestyle choice. It's terrible. It's terrible. But, I say that that's not my purpose, I don't think. I think my purpose is people to get them to shift their barometer, their own personal barometer, just one degree of what they think they're capable of. Yeah. And, if that's what I manage to do, then I will continue to soil myself in my wetsuit. I think you have done that. So, congratulations. And, continue on, sir. Thank you very much, brother. It's very good to see you again. It's been awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Always good to see you. You're a freak. You're one of a kind, man. I appreciate you very much. Thank you. That was awesome, by the way. Oh, you like it? It was good. Yeah. Well, thank you, man. You brought it. Yeah, but you crushed far more than me. I was trying. We're having fun. Thank you. It was fun. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.