#2531 - Forrest Galante

(upbeat music) - Joe Rogan wants that, check it out. - The Joe Rogan, experience. - Train my day, Joe Rogan podcast my night, all day. (upbeat music) - My friend, Joe, let's get a second, man. - Pro, it's good to see you. - So I've been setting you stuff, 'cause like we've been, I knew that you were coming on. And I sent you that one, that video of the guy who got a trail cam photo of a black panther. - Yep. - It's just a melanistic mountain lion, what is that? - It's a great question. There's never been a melanistic mountain lion. Nobody's ever seen one, ever. Never hit one with a car, never born one, captivity, nothing. So mountain lions, by definition, pumas, you know, whatever you wanna call them. There's never been a black one, ever. But every year, I mean, I got a buddy in Florida who swears blind that he's seen a black mountain lion in his backyard. And yet that photo that you send me, that photo circulates like once every three years. - It's bullshit. - It's bullshit. - It's a real photo, but it's a trail cam photo. Oh, it wasn't this one, but. - Well, that's, I think that's the first one, and then there's another one with the cat, gets like right up to the ones. Yeah, that one. - So that photo is a real, I wanna say Jaguar, it's hard to tell, but either Jaguar or Black Lapper, both of which aren't, do become melanistic. - Right. - And you can tell that, 'cause you can see the spots barely like the rosettes. So all these melanistic cats like Jags and Leopards and things that do get melanistic, they still have those rosettes under the black coat. Yeah, so not a mountain lion. - Too bad. - I know, it's such a bummer. One day, if somebody finds one, that'll be like a huge thing. - It's not funny that we want it to be different, because just a mountain lion itself is amazing. I mean, if they were all black, and there was like a tan mountain lion, be like, oh, somebody saw a tan mountain lion. - A hundred percent. It's like whatever's different and rare is what people just are like, I want that one thing. - I've always said that about big foot. - Yeah. - The big foot is kind of interesting, but not as interesting as an orca. - A hundred percent. - Right. - Like we have gorillas that are cooler than bigfoot. - Well, orcas in particular, because they have languages that we can't decipher. - Languages, specialized diets, some kind, I'm sure you know, let's kind of even talk to each other. - Right. - Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's the same as if you or I went to India or Africa. It's like, we can't communicate. We don't eat the same food. - No. - And yet, us and orcas and orcas. - Right. - And it's super smart and huge brains and don't kill people for some strange reason, except when they're in captivity. - That's right, yeah. Which is so crazy. I did a thing in Baja, Mexico maybe three years ago where we were just cruising on this little pongo, this little fishing boat, and we saw these orcas go by. And now people seem to be doing it a lot, but at the time it was like, nobody had really just tried this and this was a transient population, which means they primarily eat seals and sea lions, not the stingray eaters. And so we're like, fuck it, let's just go. And we ran the boat up ahead and jumped in, and the orcas came up, and the bull never came out. So you know the bull has a huge fin, like he's the biggest, the dominant protector of the pod. But the cows and their babies came up and the boat drifted away and me and my buddy Mike, and they just circled us, like just looking at us with their big eyeballs. And it was me to you from orcas. And they did like two circles around us, like what are these things? Then we're just like, meh, boring and kept swimming. - They must know, right? If they're that intelligent and they have language and they communicate, they must know that what a person is, right? - I think of this. - Oh, dude, I saw the guy that filmed this. This is co-crazy. - Orca headbutts a sunfish so hard it explodes. - Boom, turns into pieces. So this is a newly documented behavior. Just in the last maybe six months, they've found that orcas will literally explode fish from impact, whether it's a game or what, but they're finding that this is not the first time this is they're doing this. They're starting to just explode these fish on impact just because. - How are they doing that? Like how fast are they going? - I do not know the answer to that, but it's impressive. - I would have never imagined that that would actually be possible, right? Like how fast can you? - I'm trying to like, what does the starfish look? Is like flat like a stingray? - A sunfish, it's like a mullimolla. Those ocean sunfish with the big goofy fins. - Huge. - Some of them are huge. - 600 pounds, I get huge. It's funny. - I think literally turned a dust. - Dude, I think those are the Orca equivalents of like a red neck that wants to hit a turtle on the road and they're just like, we're bored, let's explode it. - Or those guys that do that, have you seen that game? Well, it's not a game, but it's, I guess, whatever it is. An activity where these guys just run at each other full blast. - Dude, R&C run nation. - Is that what it is? - I love that. It's one of my favorite things. I'm such a huge fan. - I love that. - I love it, dude, 'cause I play rugby. So it's rugby boys that are doing it, right? It's like an Oklahoma drill, except for rugby guys. And that's a drill that when I was playing rugby, we used to do all the time. - Just run at each other? - You just run it. It's my, run nation, R&C. It's my favorite thing. I watch every video. Look at these guys. - I would have never, they both just went unconscious. - Look at that. - They both went, oh, that guy's fine. - I'm such a fan. - But I've seen it where they both get unconscious. - I wanna bring these guys to the US and see how they stack up against like NFL linebackers. - Jesus Christ, they both had butted each other, dude. - Dude, you love fight sports. What are you talking about? - This is not a fight sport. This is just retarded. - I'm such a fan. - Oh, that's so silly. (laughing) - Oh, that's so cool. - I don't wanna do it to be clear. - R&C that you like that. - I know too much about brain damage. And you should too if you like rugby. - I've had too much brain damage to know too much about brain damage. No, I'm just kidding. But how long did you play rugby for? - Well, I grew up in Zimbabwe, and so like Southern Africa rugby is life, right? So it's like probably deep South football kind of culture. So I still play, believe it or not. Except now I play very intermittently 'cause one game puts me out for weeks. - Have you ever got your brain examined? - No, I have not. But I've only had one concussion in my life, so I think I'm okay. - Oh, that's silly. 'Cause you guarantee you'd have sub-concussive trauma. - What is sub-concussive trauma? - Well, you don't go unconscious, but you get rattled and then you have some brain damage. - You're probably right. - Yeah, soccer players get it. - Really? - Yeah, soccer players get chronic traumatic and cephalopathy. - Yeah, that's soccer players get it. - I did not know that. - I'm heading the ball. - So is that, and you know a lot about UFC, is that brain trauma worse than UFC? - Type trauma? - Well, it's all brain trauma. And it's dependent upon many factors. It's dependent upon how many times you've been hit, and also there's a gene variation. It's APOE4, is that what it is? If you have this one particular gene, it makes you more susceptible to CTE for some stray. - Oh, interesting. - So like, 'cause a concussion is when your brain sort of impacts against your skull, is that right? - There's that, and I mean, I think it's also, it's not just that it's like if you get hit in the neck, you can get a concussion. - Also, yeah, also a lot of people don't realize, you can get a concussion from getting hit in the body. - Really? - How does that work? - 'Cause you get rattled. - Yeah, also another group of people that seem to get CTE are people who ride jet skis. - That's wild. - Oh yeah, does that work? - Well, my friend, Mark Gordon, he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries in treating football players, soldiers, and he's treated some fighters as well. He said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that. - Yeah. - He had banging. If you're a fucking head banging, you're probably gonna get brain damage. - No way. - Yeah, legitimate brain damage. Like I can't remember what I was doing five seconds ago. - Wow. - Where's my keys? I forget what I'm talking about mid sentence. - Did you scare me here? - These are all things I enjoy doing. - I'm sure I enjoyed running straight at people full of last. - Yeah, I just, like those guys are animals. They're tough guys, no doubt about it. - And those specific islanders, like 'cause those are guys that are doing it primarily, right? Like they play rugby league and stuff, they're built different. - Oh yeah. - Like they're so hard, it's insane. - Do you remember David Tua? - No, I'm not gonna. - David Tua was a heavyweight boxer back in the day who was like one of the most ferocious guys that ever fought in boxing. And it just built like your prototypical island warrior guy. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's David Tua. - Yeah, I mean, just a tank. - You don't wanna run into that guy. I'm telling you what. - Yeah. - I mean, just a monster, it would knock people out, you knocked out John Ruiz like famously in the first round and like something like 30 seconds or something, like that was crazy. - Different breed, man. - Crazy left foot. Yeah, that kind of guy. I mean, we've got a bunch that Mark Hunt, who's a famous kickboxer, who's another guy, I built like that, just wide as a fucking barn. - There's like no waste, it's just like a brick solid rock. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Again, playing rugby, I played rugby against guys like that and it was the worst. - But those are the dudes that had the balls to get in a little tiny boat and make it across the fucking ocean. - You know? - And then kick your ass. - That's what it is, really. I mean, you think about it like only the super robust survived. - Right. - So it's like nature just weeding out any possible weakness. Only the strongest human beings made it. - Absolute natural selection. - Yeah, it's similar to the African Americans that we have in North America. Like those are the strongest best guys that came over here. - Right. - Right, and that's why they're all the most incredible athletes. - Yeah. - I don't know about all, but you know what I mean. I know what you're saying. - Yeah. - And also like when you look at like guys from Iceland, the strong men. - Yeah. - So how many strong men are from Iceland? - Well, how many fucking Vikings are from Iceland? - Like, let's let them live it. - Yeah, right. - It's weird when you think about it. That like nature finds its way. - It's the same thing. It's like we think we're so different and above like animals and stuff. It's a natural selection. We just bring the biggest, the best and the strongest into some area, whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland or the Samoans on their islands or whatever it happens to be. And you're just like, well, here's a superior population. 'cause all the biggest, best, and strongest have made it and all of the weakest have died off. - Isn't that weird, like you as a guy who studies wildlife biology? Isn't it weird that we want to think of ourselves as being a different thing? - No, we are clearly not. - We're not, we're not even at the top. That's the thing that people never understand. Intellectually we are, obviously, look at what we've built, but like, we're not even, we don't even sit at the top of the food chain. - But we kind of do, because we kill everything else if we want to, because we have brains. - Yeah, but not even our brains, really. It's other people's brains that invented guns. - It's not true. - It's not true. - That's such an interesting thing is like our brains or our evolutionary advantage, it transfers over to people that don't have good genetics. - Yeah. - Right, 'cause you could be built like a bag of shit, like a literal bag of shit and you can kill a grizzly bear with a rifle. - That's right. - Kind of nuts. - Yup, that's crazy. - You can just be sitting there on a ridge with a scope and boom, and you kill a 1,200 pound Kodiak brown bear. - 'Cause all of our biological energy goes into this thing, instead of being physically big or intimidating or any other other things. - We can transfer what we figured out onto other people, which is no other animals ever figured out how to do that. - Nope. Isn't that crazy? - Wild. - Yeah, it's really wild. It's when you think about it, it's like what if, if you were studying us, if you were coming from another planet and you were studying us, you'd be like, wow, this one animal is fucking weird. - Yeah, this one's doing something different. - Yeah, absolutely. - But they would still look at us and go, oh, they're definitely animals, like look at them. - Oh yeah, if you looked at the earth from an earth shot, you'd look at what we've done and be like, this is the top animal, but they're parasitic and colonizing the whole planet and changing things and manipulating things, whereas all the other animals are just getting by. - Yeah. If we found out that there were actual visiting aliens, that there was actual intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us, I think a lot of us would probably be like, why didn't you help? - Yeah, right. - Why didn't you come along and say, hey, cut the shit. - It reminds me of the, I don't know, do you watch South Park ever? - Yes. - There was an old South Park episode where Earth was like a reality show. And it's like, let's see who's getting along this week. The zebras are fighting with the giraffes and the people are doing this. And it's like, we're just like a reality show for the universe where you just put a bunch of species. We're like a big, big brother situation. - Well, we are kind of that for us. - Oh, tell me where we are. That's what a reality show is. A reality show for us is the world. - Yeah. - You know, Lindsey Graham, did he die in a rocket accident? Or did he die? Was he poisoned by Russia? Let's tune in to Twitter and find out, you know what I mean? - Exactly. - And it's hilarious. - We are locked in on whatever the fuck is happening all over the world all at once. And that's one of the weird things about social media now is that we're constantly being inundated with new things to occupy our attention, you know? - Yeah, and we have no attention span to watch anything for more than five seconds. - But yeah, at the same time, this is the rise of podcasts. - Yeah, which are long form. - Right, yeah. - So it's clear that that's not really the case with everybody. There's enough people that are interested in actual fascinating things and have an attention span. It's just like, we're also susceptible to the brain rod that comes with just scrolling. - It's so hard not, like I've tried to make conscious decisions 'cause, you know, you can imagine what my Instagram feed looks like, right? It's animal after animal half of its AI now, whatever. And I still try and make a conscious decision to not look at it and I find myself just reaching for my phone and doing this. It's just, we're wired into it now. That dopamine hits crazy. - And it's not even really rewarding, which is really terrifying to me because it's not something that's like really feels great. - And you barely retain the information. Like even if you watch an educational one where you're like, wow, that was amazing. You barely retain that information 'cause it's such a quick thing until you're onto the next one, at least for me. - Yeah, there's a little bit of that in there for sure, but I think I've gotten a pretty good algorithm lately. So lately, for whatever reason, my algorithm has been really excellent. It's really dialed in to where I'm only getting like, really fascinating things in the last couple of weeks. Oh, it's been great. - That's way better. And then every now and then some retarded shit comes on. I just skip through it real quick. And I'm like, gotta keep this algorithm going good. - Or you text me at Bigfoot AI, I think. (laughing) - Bigfoot buds are so silly. - They're so bad. - They're so silly. You actually texted me the Bigfoot one. - What was the same guy, you said the same guy texted you back. I was like, I don't think so, dude. He's like, this guy raised a baby Bigfoot in secrecy for 10 years. - It's so bad. - It's so bad. - It's so obvious this is like a shitty AI photograph of like a blurry Polaroid photograph. - And then you read the comments and there's like 400 people going like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. And you're like, come on. - Oh dude, Duncan and I, back in the day, like in 2012 or 11, whatever it was, when I did that sci-fi show, Joe Rogan questions, everything. We went and hung out with Bigfoot people. We actually went Bigfoot hunting. - No way. - Oh yeah, we were with them for a couple of days. - How was that? - The woods, the Pacific Northwest. It's kind of sad. - Yeah. - 'Cause the way I describe it, I was said, here's what you don't find when you go look at for Bigfoot. Black people. You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black people looking for Bigfoot. - It's just such a crazy white guy. - Like unfuckable white guys, out in the woods, staring at shadows. - Like making something out of nothing, right? - Look at that leaf, it must have been here. - It's just unfuckable guys. It's really what it is. It's unfortunately, that's really what it is. It's not that there's not something to the story 'cause I think there is something to the story. - Yeah. - I think it's an old story. It dates all the way back to Native Americans, right? - Well, not just that. We looked this up before, how many different names there are and I think it was more than 50. Different Native Americans. - I've never seen this before. - Yeah, that looks great. (laughing) This guy was dead big. By the way, you imagined sitting that close to that thing how bad that was smell. - Yeah, it's revolting. - I mean, the thing's been dead for who knows how long and this guy's just hanging out. - Yeah, never take your picture. - How I look. - Fight fun fact, this guy was on your mom's house like 12 years ago. - Was he? - Yeah. - For what? - Does he like a fun guy on Instagram as a dog trainer? - That's hilarious. - Tom found his videos a long time ago and they brought him in to do a podcast with him and I just thought, "No way." - I know who this guy is. - No way. - Oh no, I got in a big foot. (laughing) - He has big foot's body. - Oh, look at how bad that looks. - It's so bad, dude. - Oh my god, look at these. - Look at that. - Oh, look at the smile. (laughing) - I mean, he's, he couldn't be just a full-on spiritual troll with his baby. - Oh, he's sawing into it. Look at this. It's a cake. - It's gonna be like cake. - Oh my god, he saw it into it. Open it up, Tom. Oh, he found a foot. - Oh yeah, very real. - Very real looking foot. - That's real. - Also, if you can't trust a guy in overalls with no shirt, who can you trust? - By the way, guys are in great shape for his age. - He is. - Looks ripped. It's out there lifting up fake big-fits all day. - Six are heavy. (laughing) - I think there was, I mean, obviously we know that Gigantopithecus was real. But we were reading about this the other day that it seems like Gigantopithecus wasn't bipedal. And that there was some dispute as to whether or not it was bipedal, but apparently there's some biologists that are saying, no, it was most like the walked around like an orangutan. - Interesting. - Just huge. - Oh wow. - There's a huge orangutan looking thing. - No, I've heard of it. I didn't know that it wasn't bipedal, though. That's fascinating. - I think it's under dispute. I think it's been disputed. - That's interesting. - It's hard to say. They don't have a lot of bones, right? They only have like a few jaw bones and some stuff of them. - Yeah. - Dude, I learned something pretty interesting this last week. So I just got back from India. Literally flew in here from India. And we were doing some elephant rescues with Ventara, that big Indian wildlife rescue place. This elephant got hit by a car that we went and rescued. So its leg was all jacked up. Speaking of non bipedal things. So you would think just the elephant would walk with a limp. Well, having that trunk, it's incredible. They use that trunk as a limb. So I was watching this elephant walk. I wish I had photos or video to show you, but I was watching this elephant walk and it wouldn't put weight on its leg that was hit by the car. So it would walk with three legs and its trunk as its fourth appendage. - Oh wow. - Which is an amazing thing to see. 'Cause you think of the size of an elephant's cranium and its head and the weight. And in order to move that distribution off of that broken leg, it was using this trunk as a limb. It was just, it was incredible. It was really sad. It was an incredible thing to see. The way they sort of figured out how to maneuver using that fifth appendage. - This episode is brought to you by Zippercouter. People who go that little extra step like your rideshare pointing out the best local places to eat goes a long way. If you want people who are going to make a positive impression for your business, use Zippercouter. In fact, try it for free at zippercouter.com/rogan. Zippercouter's latest feature lets candidates go above and beyond to tell you why they want the role. And it shows you the most interested qualified candidates first. Try Zippercouter and meet great candidates who'll go the extra step for your job. Four out of five employers who post on Zippercouter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free today at zippercouter.com/rogan. That's zippercouter.com/rogan. Zippercouter, meet your match on Zippercouter. Does the elephant allow people to set its leg? - So, you know, was it broken? - I don't know, it went, so we went to, basically, so I work with this place called Ventara, which is the world's largest wildlife rescue in rehab center, it's unreal, dude. It would blow your mind. I mean, like, on a whole nother level, all privately funded by a not-embonnie, this Indian billionaire guy. The guy who had the huge wedding, if you remember that, a Justin Bieber singing his wedding and stuff. He's a great dude, him and I are buddies now, but so he's funded this world's largest wildlife rescue in rehab. It makes the San Diego Zoo look like a roadside attraction. I mean, it's like crazy big. And so he does all these rescues, right? So the reason I'm telling you all this is, they go and respond to these rescues and then take it into this gigantic world's biggest animal hospital that they've built. So we went and rescued the elephant, and now it's probably by today, back in Ventara. Yeah, here you go, and they'll be treating it. So this is long toy. This is the other one we did two rescues. This one was born with display legs and then went into logging. And so all the weight and stuff from logging. See the display legs on the front there? - Out. - Yeah. Anyway, I was just incredible, but the short answer is they do let people treat them because these animals are raised by in captivity by what's called mahoots, which are elephant riders. And it's a really, the whole dynamics really fascinating. So you grow up with an elephant as a mahoot in Indian culture. And then there's usually one or two mahoots that spend their life dedicated to the elephant. And all they do is ride them, log them, they use them as tools, but they still love them very much. It's just they use them as a tool. Elephants obviously aren't made to do that, so they break down over time. - So that's why it's legs are like that. It's from carrying the amount of weight that comes from logging. So that one would have been born with a deformity, but then yours of compounded weight and everything else makes its legs like that. - Oh. - And it's crazy. And then yeah, so we go and we take the elephants in, plus the mahoots and take them all back to Ventara, give them the mahoots a full-time job. These guys are sleeping on mattresses on the floor, right? And then take them back and it's a whole thing, reform everybody. It's an amazing thing. Yeah. - Oh wow. So when they treat the elephants, like what do they do for an elephant that has a broken leg? - So most of it's just pain management, right? Because you can only get so far. So the one that got hit by- - Can you set them in a cast? - Not really. No. I guess it depends on the fracture. I'm not at that, but I guess it depends on the fracture. But what they do is they have, and Jamie, you might be able to see it. It's incredible. They have this giant jacuzzi. Like imagine a jacuzzi, the size of your building here, for elephants and it's their hydrotherapy pool. So these animals that have terrible arthritis or fucked up feet or bad legs like that, they just spend all day in the water because then there's no weight on their limbs. - Oh wow. - Which is really cool. Do they have medication like anti-inflammatories for elephants? - Everything, man. This place uses unbelievable Eastern medicine, Western medicine, this crazy hospital. There's a lot of guys talking on their Instagram, unfortunately, but yeah. - This was got a prosthetic leg. - Whoa. - Yeah, look at that. Isn't that crazy? So they do these amazing things. - They find a mine. - Oh, fuck, man. - But yeah, it's a really, really cool place. And we get to do some fun stuff. So I was really privileged to be part of those elephant rescues. It's really emotional when you see an animal like an elephant that has so much intelligence. Look you in the eye and be like, "I'm in so much pain." And then you start to relieve it. It's cool. - I went to visit this place in Thailand a few years back that has wild elephants. So they're wild elephants, but you can ride them. And that you feed them. So you make friends with them first. - Yeah. - You feed them sugar cane, you hang out with them, and you pet them. And then they let you ride them. And they put their arm out, it feels like good. - Yeah, to walk up to step up. - Like, come on. - Yeah. - So let's, you know, like, okay. - Yeah. - I didn't like the riding part. It felt wrong to me. It's just like, it's a thing that like all the tourists did, but my family wanted to do it, so I said, okay. - Yeah. - But it's okay. But the animals themselves are so sweet. They're like, when you're hanging around with them, they're like, they're so, one of them, I got a video of it on my Instagram. She was just like eating a log. - Yeah. - She kept chewing on this log. And I'm just hanging out with her. And I made this like video with me. I'm like, she's eating a log. I don't know why she's eating this log, but she's really sweet. But it wasn't, it was a weird relationship that they had. And then you wash them at the end of the trip. - Yeah. - So you get them in this pool, this big pond, and you could just wash them and hang out with them. - It's great. I like it that you do that. So it feels good to them and they're like, thank you. Well, no, thank you for carrying me. - There's good and bads. Like, I mean, elephants have been used through history, right, in war, in logging and circuses, and everything else. But now, I would say in the last 20 years, we're finally sort of waking up to, hey, a lifetime of being on an elephant's back, like you can see the deformities, you can see the bed sores, you can see the hip display, or the hip issues, from carrying people. - Yeah, carrying people. - They're just not designed for it. You know, they look, you think they are when you look at them and you're like, what could it, you know, we're like an ant on that thing's back. But it's pretty hard on them. And the hardest part is actually not you or I or anybody riding them. It's walking on concrete, 'cause elephants have these soft padded feet. They're not designed for rock hard ground. So the impact of walking on pavement is actually that compounding with weighted, added weight, that's what's actually so bad for them. - I bet the heat of the ass fall too. - And they're dogs, like dogs hate the heat of ass fall. It's horrible for them. - And the weirdest thing about an elephant foot, if you look at its anatomy, they're one of the few animals that walk on their toes. So they don't have toes splitting out like we do, they walk on top of their toes. - So that, you know, imagine that compounding on heat plus weight. - Closed up I guess. - It's a weird animal. - Yeah, isn't it cool that they thought that that's what a cyclops was when they found the skulls? - Yeah, because of the skull. - Yeah, isn't that amazing. - That's why cyclopses were a real thing. - Dude, have you ever seen, have you ever been to the Explorers Club in New York City? - No. - That's worth a visit. You would love it. They have the champlow a tiger there, like the most famous man eating tiger skin. - That's the one that killed like 476 people. - Yep. - Is that with the number? - Crazily. - I actually have it on my YouTube and I don't remember the name. - It's more than 400 people. - It's crazy. And then Jim Corbett went and shot it. Yeah, and see you almost named my son Corbett 'cause I love that story so much. But they have the only four-tussed elephant at the Explorers Club in New York City. - Whoa. - I'm sure Jamie, you can find a picture of the skull. Nobody knows why, total anomaly. Nobody's ever seen it. Nobody knows why. I think it's the only one in existence and it literally has four tusks coming out of it. - Just a weird genetic thing. I think so. Like that's play like it won't we look like that thing? - Because sometimes with elk, they'll get an injury when they're young and then they'll get weird deformities of their antlers. - But is that different because they shed their antlers every year so they grow back in weird ways? I don't know. - That's a good question. I don't know. - I think it's an injury to the skull. - Yeah. - So an injury to like the area where the antler is, like sometimes they just have one sword. - Yeah. - Like there was a ranch that in California that had this one elk that was killing all the other elk because he didn't have antlers the same way. Oh, they got a jetty skull. (laughing) Did you find that, Jamie? - It's one of the 11 big interesting things you can see there. - Oh, I think it's more of the sport. - Oh, interesting. - Sure, that's legit. (laughing) So this one elk had, on one side, he had like normal antlers. But the other side, he just had a spear. - Oh, wow. - And so he was just stabbing all these other elk. - And it was killing the other elk. - Because this guy doing. - Because he wasn't, like they're used to their antlers interlocking. - Of course, yeah. - And this is the thing. - Yeah. - They get together and they clash. - Of course. - They try to impress the ladies. - Yep, well, there he is. - Oh, wow. - Look at that. - Wow, the tusks. - Isn't that cool? - That's so weird. - Very weird. - Very weird. - Four. - And they're like weird the way they're interlocked. - They're going towards each other's weird-- - Which makes you realize it's a genetic deformity, right? Because it's not like this perfect symmetrical, like nature made it. It's just, it's a mutation of some kind. - Well, that's just weird about genes, right? Things go wonky all the time. Someone's born with an extra arm. You know, like, okay. - Yeah, exactly. - Sometimes people are born with tails. And you're like, ooh. - Yeah. - Okay. - It's so weird. Dude, you and I talked about Barbarossa one time. The pigs that have those crazy-- - Yeah, they go into their own skulls. - My buddy, who's a vet, he just cut a horn out of a sable. You know, a sable antelope? - Yeah. - That was growing into its own skull. - Oh, god. - It's great. I have a video of it on my Instagram, Jamie, if you want to see it. So it got an injury, so it killed part of the horn. And you know, their antelope, they're not deer. So they don't shed their horns. So they grow forever. So this guy had this giant horn just circling back, punching into its own skull. - Oh. - Can you imagine that? - Dude, it was gnarly. - The pigs are nuts, though, or whatever that animal's called. - Barbarossa. - Is it technically a pig? - Yeah, yeah. It's like a Indonesian warthog. - Yeah. - But the way it goes into its own skull, no matter what. Like, it always happens. - Yeah, because they have to fight and break them off. And if they don't fight and break them off, it's nature's so weird, man. - Yeah, that is fucking crazy. - They're so cool. - Well, wonder what those things taste like. - I bet they taste great. I think all the swine tastes great. - I had to have a lean of you, which is not technically a swine. It's a peckery. - Uh-huh. - It wasn't that good. - Not good? - No. - Huh, that's unfortunate. - It's odd. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's like, oh. - No, just not the best. - Well, you got to think of what they're eating. - For what I know about how he's a garbage primarily. - Yeah. - I think that's part of the problem. - Yeah. - 'Cause that's the case with bears, right? Like, my friend Steve Rinella, cooked a bear steak or a bear ham on his friend's smoker. And he said to his friend, he said, "Hey, you should probably clean that smoker. It smells like fish." He goes, "I've never cooked fish in that smoker once." And it was just from the bear. The bear had eaten so much fish that as he was smoking the bear, all you could smell was fish. - That's disgusting. It's like eating a seagull. - Whoa, look at this one. It's going right into his head. - That's the guy. Yeah, isn't that crazy? - Wow. - No, that's nuts. - And it's, yeah, he cuts the horn off and you can see 'cause the horns are living thing. There's always that animal still alive. - Barely. Like, he had millimeters of growth to go before it punched right into his brain. - That's gross. - Crazy. - That's so gnarly. - That's so gnarly. It's like digging and imagining that like every day, just a tiny little amount more is growing into your brain. - It's gotta be this constant pain where it just gets tiny bit worse all the time. - That's so on through it. - See how much into the skull it went? Like it was right there. - That's crazy. - So gross, I thought you'd like that. (laughing) - I don't know if that says what made. - Yeah. - You thought that I would like that, but I don't know. - That is gnarly, man. (laughing) - That poor dude, now he doesn't have any antlers. - Yep, or horns, right? Is it technically horns? - Horns, yeah, but he's still got a brain, so that helps. - Well, carry on, bro. - Yeah. (laughing) - Nature's a motherfucker, dude. - Dude, it's crazy. - Where's the thylacene, man? What's going on? - It's gone pretty cold, dude. - Really? - Yeah, I mean, I was hoping you'd come in with new evidence. - I wish I was. There's a group that I've been working with that called mammal watching, like if you heard a bird watching. And they've been going into Western Papua and Papua New Guinea, which is as you know, where I think there could still be a tiny population. And so I'm working with them. They're giving trail cameras out to guys. They're still hearing legends here and there, but it's just, I don't know, it feels like the legends are getting fewer and further between, like almost over generational time. It's disappearing if that makes sense. - Oh, that's a bad time. - Yeah. That means whatever's left is probably dying off, right? - If at all. Yeah, and I mean, I still hold out hope that it's something I've always wanted to be, and I want it to be there. But it just, it feels like those bits of evidence that we're compounding have all sort of started to fade. - That sucks. - I know, really does. - It is a very interesting thing with the incredible variety of wildlife that we have, that we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be alive. The things like the thylacene or the giant sloth. - Yeah. - Like I remember I watched this documentary on the giant sloth, there was this one scientist as biologist who had spent an inordinate amount of time, like years in the Amazon, looking for a giant sloth, and was realizing at some point in time during the documentary that he might have ruined his career. - Overdoing it. - Yeah. - Because he might have been chasing something that doesn't exist. And it's this wild gamble if he listens to these people and they're telling him the truth. - Right. - Because all the natives were like, "Oh yeah, bro, they're out here." - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Right around the next time. - Yeah, we'll find him tomorrow. - Right over the next mountain. - Yep, we'll be good. - I've been there. But you know, if you don't follow those leads, like do you know what the salad is? The Asian unicorn? - I've heard that. - Yeah. - Same thing, same story, but real animal. And you know, there was basically one ever seen by Western science, an animal named Martha. And for years, scientists, Western scientists were going into Vietnam and last. So they're going, "Yeah, yeah, we have this thing called the salad of the Asian unicorn." And they're like, "Shut up." You know, and then all of a sudden turns out, here's this giant bovid that still exists. - What a cool looking animal, too. - Yeah. And nobody knows whether they still exist now or not. - Is that it? - That's it, yeah. So basically, there's been three or four, maybe more, that have ever been seen. Most of them caught in poachers snares like this one. But then, really cool guy named Bill Robachod got a call once from a prince, and he had caught one. And it was in his village, and he flew in there. And overnight, the poor thing died. And that was the only time a single Western history has ever seen a live salad. - Oh, wow. - And this guy had it. And then he's like, "Can we please preserve it?" And the king was like, "Now we're gonna eat it." And they ate it. - Whoa. - Got nothing out of it. Yeah. He's got pictures and stuff, so you know it's all real. But they call it the unicorn because it's horns are so symmetrical that when you look at it from a side profile, it looks like one horn. Come here. - Oh, like that. - Exactly, yeah. - That's weird. - Yeah, they're very cool. But it's a bovid. It's like cattle. That's not one. I don't know why they're using that photo. - Oh, how odd. - Yeah. - But that's the same thing as these, you know, these things around giant sloths and thylacene and bigfoot and everything else. It's, they are out there, you know, some of them, not all of them, but they are out there. And if you don't follow the lead, if you ignore it, then you miss things like that. - Well, there's also like, when you think about things like the Amazon, like if you ever see footage of the Amazon from above, you go, "Oh, there's no way you know." - That's so big. - You look down and you go, "Oh, well, there's no way you know." - No. - This is way too big. - There's no way there's bunch of people scouring every inch of that place. - I mean, given there are still groups of human beings uncontacted. - A lot. - A lot. - My friend Paul Rosalie, and he's, yeah, he's coming contact with them multiple times. - Yeah. - See if he can get some aerial footage of flying over the Amazon. I mean, it's in multiple countries. It's, what is it? - It's crazy. - Oh, it's true Bolivia, where else Brazil? - Argentina, it's crazy. - It's so big. - It's huge. - It's so fucking big. - And I had a similar experience in New Guinea talking about Thielstein, where we got on a plane in a place called Toofy and flew to another area. - Okay, look at this. - It was just like this. For four hours, we didn't see one building. - Amazon and 4K. So just a mat, like there is no fucking way you know. - No. - You know what's in there. - No way. - There's probably a bunch of shit in there that no one has found. - And then there's, oh, undeniably there are. And then there's stuff, you know, like, you'll get a kick out of this. Loch Ness Monster. What do you think it is? - Maybe a sturgeon or something like that. - Jamie, what do you think the Loch Ness Monster is? - I mean, I think they know, but I don't know. Probably, I don't know. - Whale Dick. - What? - Whale Dick. - Whale Dick. - Not a normal Dick. - A whale Loch Ness Monster versus Whale Dick. Look at this, and tell me this isn't what they think is the Loch Ness Monster. - Wait a minute, do you mean like the photos that the hoax photo of the one that's poking out of the water? - That one, I mean, you'll see it in a second here, I think. But there are these photos of a Whale's penis compared to the Loch Ness Monster. And I mean, that's certainly not proof, but it kind of answers a lot of like, that's a Whale Dick right there. - That is a Whale Dick, but that photo, I'm pretty sure is a proven hoax. - That one is. - Yeah, right. - I think that photo was like a guy like made something out of wood and like floated it in the water and took a picture. - Yeah. - Is that what the story behind that is? - There's something along those lines. - No, Loch Ness Monster is in a Whale penis. Professor says, "Oh okay, well if the internet professor says it then he'll say, "Oh, a professor." Oh, let's take him seriously, he's out there. - Oh, I'm just in a Whale's there. - If you're the type of professor that they call upon when they're trying to figure out if something's a Whale Dick, maybe, sir, would you please study these nine Whale penis and tell us your thoughts on this? - Maybe that's what happened to the, what? - He was his claim and then he said, he was just like kind of messing around. - Well, I'm sticking with it. I like it. - He's the guy that proposed it? - Yeah. - Oh, darn it. I like this area. - He's this walked back. His salacious claim. That's so funny. Maybe that's the guy that was looking for the giant slob. He's like, "I need a new angle." This giant slob thing did not pan out. I like it. Big difference. - If you're a guy looking for a giant slob in the Amazon, where do you look? Like, good luck finding it. - You have to find geographically isolated areas. You know, because they're little pockets, right? If the pockets of, okay, people aren't coming in here, animals aren't going out. There's a big ring of mountains. There's whatever it happens to be. I met a guy who said he guaranteed, he knew, you know, all these people like this, but I always enjoy the story of it, that there was this pocket in Peru that was completely geographically isolated by the mountains and that's where they were. And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged, right? It's like an island, basically, in the Amazon. Like, things just don't change because it's so isolated from everything else. - Well, I think the idea also was that giant sloths, where we know they existed in North America, that whenever, whatever happened that ended the ice age, the younger dry is impact, that it didn't affect things below the equator or around the equator, was more of a northern hemisphere thing. - Yeah, because the climate shift was so much stronger. - Exactly. And so the, most of the animals that died off, if you look at like this, I think it was 65% of North American megafauna died off during this very short window, that didn't happen in South America. And that we're just guessing that they're dead. - Yeah, right. - Because there was a healthy population. Like, how many tigers are there in the wild? I think there's 5,000. - It's something like that. Yeah, it's gone way up, by the way. It was down to 400. - Fun fact, more tigers in captivity in Texas. - I know. - Then there are in all of the wild of the world. - It's, Texas crazy, man. - It's such a wild. - Just in people's yards. - Yeah. - And private collections in Texas. There's more tigers than all of the wild of the world. - It's such an insane statement that should not exist. - Yeah. - I love this statement. - It's just my favorite place ever. - Get away with it. - It's just a wild place. Like for all intents and purposes. - Yeah, it's hilarious. Wild for people. Dude, I love Texas. Every time I come to Texas, I'm like, this place is great. It's always fun. Everybody's so nice too. - Exactly. - That's the best part. It's like nobody scowls at you. You're getting the elevator and they're like, "Hey, how's your day going?" And you're like, very friendly. - I'll tell you how it's going. - Very, a lot of people, especially coastal elites, I know it's like to say like people, coastal snobbs, they have this idea of it being like filled with red necks and ignorant people and foolish people. - Yeah. - Not that way at all. Especially Austin. Austin is like one of the most like liberal, easygoing progressive cities. - Yeah. - But like even the progressives here, they're like more reasonable. - It's like down to earth. - Yeah, they're not. - It's not extremism, right? - Well, they're definitely more crazy than they were 20 years ago when I first started coming here. - Okay. - But wait less crazy than like Liberals in LA. - Yeah. - Or Liberals in Cal, or Liberals in New York. - I just thought they're, where it's just extreme. like a protest and all these, yeah. - Well, it's like, there's just saying about Austin, keep Austin weird and surrounded. - And surrounded? - Yeah. - What is the and surrounded? - Surrounded by red people. Like it's all red states around you and this is pocket of blue that's in the center of this red state. I think that's good for everybody. - Yeah. - I think that's good, it's a balance. And like the liberals that want to turn Texas blue, like don't, you're gonna ruin it. You're gonna ruin it for you too. You don't get it, like balance is important. It's like, you can't kill all the predators. Because then the deer will get overrun and you're hitting them with cars. And you can't kill all the deer. 'Cause then there's no food. And I mean, that's what they did when they were market hunting. Balance, and you need balance with humans too. - 100%. - And the Austin balance is a great balance. It's a liberal city surrounded by like hardcore Republicans with guns and tigers. - And it works, and it all works. - It works. It makes for nice people. It's like it's a good mix. - Yeah. - And a misunderstood mix. - On the outside, they have a very distorted perception of what Texas is, especially Austin. - Yeah. - Well, how do you feel as a California? I mean, you bounced around, but as a California transplant, did you bring your side balls and you're, you know, you're like, I need all that California stuff here. - What stuff? - I don't know. - I mean, I don't know. That's like, that's the thing though, right? I was like, all the Californians come in here and messing it up kind of thing. - I was never one of those. So my, what I got out of California was the comedy store and work, and then jujitsu. So like, you get all that here. The Austin is arguably the jujitsu capital of the world right now. - Really? - Oh yeah. - Oh, that's interesting. - Is this where the new league is based out of? - No, that's, you mean the UFC league? - Yeah. - No, that's in Vegas. - It is in Vegas. - Yeah. - 'Cause that's where the UFC's headquarters are. But Austin has Kings World, which is Gordon Ryan's place. It's got B-Team is out here. Shonji Rehibero is out here. - Okay. - There's a bunch of Gracie Baja schools out here. There's multiple 10th planet schools out here. It's like, there's an incredible amount of jujitsu out here. - So what I'm hearing is this is where to bring run nation, freeing it to Austin. (laughing) - No, get that. They'll never win. - They'll only be able to get a win of those wild New Zealand dudes and those Australian guys. Those guys will win every time. They're built for that shit. No, but it's just a great city period. Artistically, it's always been like a great music city. Now it's arguably the comedy capital, the country. - Yeah, there's so many comedians here now, right? - It's because they got here and they went, oh, this is way better. There's no traffic. Everyone's nice. - Yeah. - And you can do whatever you want. And also, there's a lot of places to do comedy. Just on my street where my club is, there's five or six other clubs that have opened up since we opened up. - Oh wow. - So it's incredible. So if you're a young comic and you're an established comic that just wants to work out material, you could go to my club, you hopped on a street to the sunset room, which is my friend Brian's club, right down the street, and you can go down the street to the creek in the cave, an amazing club. It's just two seconds away. - Oh cool. - It's like one block over. Like everything's close to Vulcan, which is right there, everything's right there. It's incredible. - It's incredible. - That's great. I'm glad you're so stoked here. I remember when the first, maybe the second time we hung out down at your show in Not West Lake, where was it? Woodland Hills, right? - Yeah. - And you were like, dude, I got to get out of here. (laughing) - Yeah, I wanted to get out a long time ago. - Yeah. - And fun fact, we started the podcast because I was depressed because I had to move back from Colorado. - Oh really? - So I lived in Colorado for a little bit. - Okay. - But my wife got pregnant. And when she was pregnant, it was like, if you are an altitude, we were at 8500 feet above sea level. It's rough. And we went back to LA for a short period of time and she was fine. - Yeah. - And then we went back to Colorado and she was sick again. I was like, okay. And then we were reading about low birth weight, premature birth is a lot of like really bad things that happened to people, especially if you're not acclimated. So we moved to these high altitude areas. By the way, working out there, when I worked out there, I thought I was going to die. And then I went to Philadelphia and I had to do some gigs in Philadelphia and I worked out and I felt like I could run through wall walls. - You've said so much. I was like, you're blood. - I was like, this is incredible. Because the only time of my life, I've ever been altitude adjusted like where my body had adapted. And I was like, there's a massive advantage. - No wonder why fighters do it. - And you don't acclimate being up at that height over months or anything else? - Well, I did. I certainly did. I could work out there. And I used to, I did Jiu-Jitsu in Boulder. So Boulder was, I was in a place called Gold Hill, which is 8500 feet above sea level and Boulder is like 55. So I was doing, shout out to Amal Easton. My friend Amal, he was a Jiu-Jitsu gym in Boulder, great place. And when I was training there, it was fine. I mean, you trained, but you definitely could feel it. I had trained there once before, when I had come from LA and I was like, woof, this altitude is rough, like it's like working out and Denver, you're like woof, you feel it. But not like you feel it at 8500 feet. 8500 feet was, I do this, these kettlebell workouts and I was doing it and I'm used to what it does. Like, I'm used to be, and I was like, this is crazy, this feels like I'm drunk. Like it felt like you had nothing in a tank. It really felt like I drank a bottle of whiskey and tried to work out, it was so tired. - I went to the Himalayas, like maybe four or five years ago to look for red pandas up in the trees. You know, those cute little guys. And day one, I literally maybe made it 400 feet and then had to sit down. And I was like, all right, we're trekking for pandas, we're heading up into the mountains, we'll find these pandas and I just, I don't remember what the elevation was, but I'd come from Santa Barbara where I live, which is sea level, to the high Himalayas. And I just sit down like every 15 minutes for the first couple of days. - I saw the most horrifying video the other day. I love this guy who was on one of those summit hikes and slipped. - Oh, no. - His friends watched him slide all the way down to there. - Just sliding down ice and snow and couldn't stop. And they just had to stand there and watch this guy slide away. - What can you do? - Nothing. - That's so crazy. - Was he sliding? - Yeah, he was trying to, he was making it to this summit and slipped and slipped off the, you know, there's a very clear path and slipped off of it and just started sliding. And you realize, oh, he's gone. - That's it. - He's gonna go off forever. - That's crazy. - Oh, it's horrible. - I always want to like take my kids to do these things with me, you know? And I'm like, oh, I want to take them to track and see the mountains and catch crocodiles and do all these various things that I like to do. And you realize it's like, my six year old can barely walk in a straight line without falling down. You know what I mean? Imagine taking him on a mountain track. - Oh, that's so scary. But on the other hand, like you don't want to protect them too much, you want to expose them to a certain amount of danger, 'cause I think it's good for them. It's good for them to sit. - Yeah, it's good for them to experience. It's also good for them to have like a broader understanding of what the world is, right? Like the world's a bunch of different things. - That's right. - It's not just Santa Monica. - Oh, there's Costa Rica, like whoa, this is crazy. Look at these bugs, these nuts, like birds. Like there's, it's nice for them to-- - It's important, it's it, yeah. - Because of all you bull. - We live in a bubble. Like America's great. I say this to my wife all the time. I'm so patriotic, I love this country. It's great, but it's a bubble. Everything's easy, it's safe. You can order shit on your phone. It shows up at your house. You know, there's a million restaurants to pick from. Obviously, it depends where you live, but you get my point. - Yes. - And then you get out of here and it's like, okay, everything closes at 4 p.m. Like go figure out your food. And then you're like, okay, well now I have two kids who are hungry and we're in the jungle, or it's in a town that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever, it's like figure it out. Those are important lessons for little kids to be dynamic and figure out how the rest of the world works and that they have to figure out how to get things when it's not all just at the touch of your phone. - Also to recognize that there's gonna be times where you don't have food. - Yeah. - Like people are just so accustomed to having food anytime they're hungry. And in fact, sometimes when they're not even hungry, they're just bored so they start stuffing their face when they're bored. - Which never existed in all of human history. - No. - No. - Dude, I just read, you might be well read on this, but I just read something interesting. The eight hour night of sleep. - Yes. - Invented by a mattress company, you know about this? - I didn't know it was invented by a mattress company, but I do know that traditionally in the past, people would do two sleeps. - That's right. - Yeah. - Yeah, so you know about what I'm talking about. I just read this literally yesterday and one of my doom scrolling things, but. - It's interesting because I did that a lot when I was young where I would wake up in the middle of the night and I just decided to watch TV. - And do something for an hour. - And do something for a few hours and then I'd go back to sleep. - But it was just for me, it was just like being indulgent because I was single and free and you know, 25 years old and I had my own apartment. I'm like, I do whatever the fuck I want. Get up at three o'clock in the morning, watch TV for a couple hours and go to sleep till noon. - Why not? Sit around in your box or eat cereal? - Yeah. - The mattress part is a myth. - Oh, it is. - Oh. - Okay, damn it. Everything I keep bringing out the myths, Jamie. - No whale dicks, no me. - Jamie is the killer of dreams. - You're the run all my stuff, man. - I saw the same Instagram video you guys saw. And I thought it was interesting too. - Yeah. - Yeah, that is the myth. I think that might be a myth but I think the two sleep thing, it was a way that people would get up in the middle of the night. But you also have to think, I think a lot of people went to bed way earlier because it got dark. - We didn't have electricity. - And there's a normal circadian rhythm where people get, it gets dark out. You eat, maybe it's hanging. out in front of a campfire for a little while and then you go to bed right right if you've ever gone camping that's what most people do. Most people don't stay up till four in the morning when you're camping. No without booze. Nothing to do with that. You've got booze you might be up late telling stories and laughing and if anybody breaks out a guitar and you're fucked. Yeah. In your up all night. You mentioned pain as I was going to ask about a me and my I had seen going around the same places that pandas are fake. Did you see the zoo in China? A lot of people talk about that. Did you see the zoo in China that painted the pomeranians? I didn't see that. But the thing is about pandas is that and I went down a rabbit hole this the other night. There were no depictions of pandas in like ancient Chinese history. No. Is that true? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they didn't show up until like God, I want to say it was like the 16th century or 17th century. That's bizarre. I wonder why that is because you know there were explorers going through the area and all of that. Well, the idea was that maybe they were engineered to eat bamboo because bamboo, if you think about it, is like a very prolific print. Absolutely. Like I have bamboo on my property. That's shit. It just grows like it's crazy. Well, it grows. It grows so quickly and there's almost no nutritional value in it either. Right. Yeah. So here's the panda. Interesting. The claim is largely true with nuance. So was that what did you search into perplexity or AI sponsor? Is it true that pandas aren't in Chinese ancient history? The claim is largely true, though with nuance. Okay. Giant pandas strikingly absent from China's classical cultural record. Unlike the dragon, which is weird. Tiger, by the way, our conversation about it made it to the view. I don't know if you know. You changed your status to dragon believer. It was so funny. He believes in dragons. Oh my god. This is wonderful. Oh, it's so good. So good. Okay. So when did it happen? Unlike the dragon tiger crane or tortoise doesn't appear on ancient bronze or pottery in tank poetry song paintings. Juan, you want a Y U A N? How do you say that? It's me. Juan, drama, Ming novels or Q I N G. Queen. Queen. Before the late 20th century, it had essentially no symbolic role in Chinese civilization. Its status as a national treasure is a post 1949 invention. That's bizarre. After pandas became famous globally in the 20th century, Chinese scholars went back and combed old texts looking for them. A few candidate references exist. The Xi Jing, Book of Odes and Shang Shu mentioned a creature called Pai or Moe, which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda, but the identification is contested. And those same words were also used for leopards, taper, tapere, tapere, or mythical beasts. Emperor Wen of Han, second century BCE reportedly had a Moe buried in his mother's tomb, sometimes claimed as a panda, but that's weird. That is very bizarre. Fragmentary, ambiguous and rare, nothing like the deep iconographic tradition around dragons, phoenixes or tigers. Why the apps? Rogan style claim. I've never even said it before. Fuck you. How dare you perplexity. That is so funny. It's a Rogan style claim. I think is essentially on the podcast also. It's listening right now because sometimes I'll bring in questions I've asked from like last month and I'm like, no, I didn't. This is a separate search, but it's like all locked into the history. Oh, I asked it a question once and it said, as you have previously stated, no way. I was like, whoa. I was trying to find out like how many views something had gotten. Yeah. And you're like, as you previously told you, yeah, you're using me as data. This is why AI so fucked up. Yeah. Like you trust me. I'm trusting you. Don't trust me at all. I get all my information from you. Dude, that's so weird because you want it because it's not like, you know, okay, there's no mention of ducks. I get it because there's ducks everywhere who cares, right? Like, so why do we write about them? But it's not something like that. I can't as we're never so abundant that it was not worth talking about. Yeah. See if we're this fear, who invented this theory that they were engineered to eat bamboo? So who did this engineering in this theory? Well, that's a question. Like, who did dogs, right? Why do we have dogs? Right. Which is really weird. You know, why I have a dog. He's a King Charles Cavalier. You know, those little. I do. He is adorable. He's so cute. I love him to death. But he, and he's made appearance on the podcast. Oh, nice. He's the furthest thing from a wolf. As far as we've taken a wolf, yeah, to make it so fucking adorable and cute. But that is what it is that was at one point in time a wolf. Right. Somehow or another, we engineered it down to a dog that's adorable and just wants to cuddle with you and sit in your lap and play and weighs 25 pounds. So what happened? And how did we do that? And could you do that with a bear? And could you get a bear, then take that bear and make it something? I think it's the only bear that's a true herbivore as well. Yeah, I think that's correct. Yeah, which is true bear. Yeah, weird. So what have we done? They're digestive tract. We changed. Yeah. And they're required. I'm like, it's like koalas. Oh, I think they only eat eucalyptus. That's right. Yep. Fucking weird. Bizarre. Which also has no nutritional value. And you probably know this makes them like high basically. So looking up who who did it and start going on a thing that it's not no one is known for the theory. It's because they're actually carnivores. Oh, they're a tax on. Oh, so that means koalas, I think, are the ones that are pure herbivores? That they definitely are, but they're not bears at all. They're a marsupial. They just call them koalabairs. I see. So they say they are taxonomic carnivores. That means taxonomically they're in the order carnivora, if that makes sense. So, but it says with a short digestive tract and gut microbiomes of a meat eater. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So they're vegans. But you could selectively breed for anything to some degree if you had enough time. But look, but that's the other thing. Like, why are they so cute? I think of that because there's so much cuter than any other bear by far. Like that face, even with the teeth out, like, it's adorable. But he they also have the best PR campaign in history. Like they're they're the dumbest animals in the world. You know this, right? Really? Oh my God. I don't know if that's the right terminology. But like, you can hand a panda an apple and it will hand you its baby. I'm not joking, dude. You can find videos of this. Well, is that more evidence that it's raised that it's been engineered because it doesn't have the instincts that a wild animal would have? Dude, their parental instincts are bonkers. Bonkers. Like they will drop their baby and go for an apple. That's how zookeepers take their babies away. It's like these guys are trying to go extinct. I swear to God. It's insane. So where did the theory come from? See if you can find out where the theory came from that they were engineered to eat bamboo. That's why I asked that exact question. It's just what just started showing up on my Instagram about three months ago. Huh. Did Instagram? You never know what you're going to get. Of course. But that's what's fun. Yeah. As long as you don't buy into it. The problem is even like me and what I do as a biologist, I can, I mean, I'd say 90 percent I can tell, but there's a 10 percent where I can't tell if it's AI or real or, and I'm looking at it going, well, that behavior is wrong. So it has to be AI, but it's crazy what's going on in like the animal space with the AI walkups now. I watched one today where it was a wildebeest that a leopard had jumped on its back and the wildebeest jumped into the water and the crocodiles killed the leopard on its back and the wildebeest got away. Totally fake. It has to. Sounds fake. I mean, it sounds insane. Wildebeest is smart all of a sudden. So smart that it figured out all I have to do is get to those crocs and the props. Also, like you're going to run, I don't, like you're going to give yourself more problems. Right. You're going into the water. Yeah. Well, by the way, multiple crocodiles. So why wouldn't they just eat you too? They would. They just kill everything. They would kill everything. If both of you are compromised, it's not going to just grab the leopard on your back. It's going to grab you too because you can't get away anything they can get. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's crazy, but it was also fun. Yeah. Exactly. It's also a lot of fun. Get away. Get a different video, but you're here. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a. That's the I. It's a longer cut of the video, but you can see by like the saturation of the leopard and like the way the claws are kind of like, there's no claws. It's almost like softballing it. Right. I mean, look how he's hanging on. Yeah. This could be a video of a real wheeled beast getting eaten by a crock and they just added the leopard to the back. That's very well. It's pretty. It's pretty amazing. Look. No, that's the crock. Oh, this is different. Yeah. No, bro. That's real. Guys, stop. This is different. This one's different because this one, the will also, by the way, the wheeled beast is doing way too well in that struggle. Yes. Because when the crocodiles do get wheeled beast, they get them quick. The leopard got in this one. Someone put some time into this. Yeah. When the crocks get a hold of something, it's really to wrap. Dude, I just. It's not much of a struggle. I just did. I'm probably not supposed to talk about this yet, but I just did this show for discovery that I've been working on for a couple of years, where basically I put myself in the perspective of prey. So I would have been in the perspective of that wheeled beast through engineering and doing all these like builds and stuff like that. And I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles. It was insane. I had a cage around me. So a very small cage was basically a coffin made out of what though? What's a cage made out of? Whatever the guys in the world. Workshop could find I think steel do they try it out first? No, I mean we tested it with nothing in it And we're like okay, this is working. I get sent it to Jamie. I have it on my phone, but it was It's like those shark cages man those things don't hold up. You've seen that before right? Oh, yeah Where they go straight through the shark cage? Yeah, yeah, it's craziness. It's absolutely craziness. I'll find here we go Dude we did I don't know why I did. Oh, you know what Jamie go on the if you don't mind go on the discovery Instagram I think it's there a good good luck finding it I can send you something in the meantime, but I think they posted like a short teaser of it It was nuts though. So I'm in this little cage. We rigged up these cables just you wearing scuba gear Or would it so I had a scuba tank with me in case the thing broke and I ended up on the bottom? Sounds dumb or out loud and then you have so much oxygen before they can get you out 30 minutes 30 minutes before God, dude, I was talking to our guy so you know is a TV production So there's like stunt coordinators and all the stuff and I was like so okay cable snaps I go down I grab the regulator. I've got 30 minutes to 40 minutes in my tank Then what he's like a lot of this grappling hook will throw it hook it with the grappling hook and pull it out I'm like bro. What if you hit a log? He's like hmm hadn't thought about that. I'm like how you getting me out of here? This is not only that that easily you take more than 30 Of course we take more than 30 so you might have to get out and swim. Oh, I could can you get out? I couldn't I locked myself into the cage. There was no getting out. You did this. Yeah, it was pretty dumb It was fun. It was cool though because it was such a unique perspective But I told my wife when I got home from that one I was like yeah, I think this is my last year doing this shit I got it and it's getting too too much now That's the thing about those kind of shows. It's like it's not enough to just see the animals You have to do something that makes it spectacular enough to get people to tune in like that polar bear one Where the guy got in that big plexiglass box that literally inspired the whole series I swear to God yeah I hate that video. It's crazy. I mean I watched it a hundred times. I know I don't hate it But I hate the idea of it because it just shows you how predatory polar bears are and how they don't give a fuck It's just trying to get at that guy isn't it crazy? Yeah, it's not I mean just actively hunting him. Yeah, it's so different than the other bears Which is like if you get killed by a grizzly generally it's like you fucked up. Yeah, like you stumbled upon one That's old startled or yeah, or you startled it or you know you zig when you should have zagged Have you seen the city in Russia the abandoned island city where the polar bears have taken over? No, oh you got to see this. It's incredible. I've seen videos of Russia of people like getting chased by polar bears in their town Oh, yeah Yeah, there's like the one where the guy jumps on the snowmobile runs after him and starts barely gets away There's a whole area in the bearing sea that was a I want to say a former mining town or maybe fishing town and people moved out Because it collapsed for whatever reason this place. Look at this and the polar bears have just moved into town. Oh They're living in the house. They're living in the house. Look at this. They're just like they took it over as a den Completely took it over how cool is this? That's amazing. Yeah, they're just fully moved in like living in the house That's a drone shop, but they're this is not AI. This was legit. They're so cool looking. Oh, they're the coolest. They're so interesting How amazing is that though? Imagine like imagine you're out on a boat and you're like, oh man We've been saying for three weeks. Oh look. There's like a little village. Let's pop in there for a day That should be a cool movie. Yeah, that would be a good movie. Yeah, a bunch of people like we found a village Yeah, you like head in and turn you know like set up and then all of a sudden you're surrounded. Yeah, it's all polar bear You're like, why is there so much shit in this house? Because they probably just shit right in the house. Oh, yeah, so they're pond at the drones. Yeah, wow Look how cool. They're hanging out the window like hey Tom. Yeah, I come on over have a drink You could put me in the glass box on this island. This looks so cool. It is so cool. They're they're an amazing animal They really are but they're they're so weird They're so long too. I went and did a sort of a trek with them What do you mean brother getting on that island if they're the only ones there? Oh, well, they're the only ones there But there's seals and all kinds of other shit. They'll be hunting all the marine mammals in the area Yeah, they're they're the cleanup crew and they swim huge distances. Oh, yeah, man a couple have turned up in Iceland Did you know that what yeah, there's I think two or three cases of polar bears that have swam from Greenland to Iceland and may or is that I'm not sure But it's not close obviously I mean the Vikings like a hundred years Yeah, so that's crazy. Yeah, and then all the swim that far I'm miles 200 miles Wow, are you hopefully this isn't a myth? Are you skinned when it says it was shot dead after it did it in 2008? Yeah, and it's swam across, right? Get off 100 miles how crazy is that just take a swim one day and end up colonizing an entirely new place? So it's like the David Goggins of polar bears I can make it feel no pain Operation to kill the animals captured on film. Let's fucking go video might not let's fucking go. Let's see that video Yeah, but is that craze 200 miles swim as a bear? Yeah, this is it might have well jumped off just a piece of ice somewhere So you know got a little float right it could hung out for a little bit short, but still even 50 miles It's pretty far well they can last so long with the fat that's on their body and they like snooze float have you seen that? They like they won't just like actively swim. They'll like kind of like snooze float in between hunting It's kind of amazing in the winter. They have so much fat, you know that or yeah in the winter stored up Getting ready to chill because they don't eat as much during the summer. Am I getting this right? I think so, right? That they they like yeah, you seem like snooze floating in the ocean Well, they eat a lot in the summer to get ready for the winter, right? They're metat I know they eat a lot in mid summer. They don't eat a lot. It's too hot for them to actively hunt. Oh, I know that How hot is too hot for them to actively hunt? I went to Manitoba Canada to go see them on foot and it was like 75 degrees at the height of the day or maybe 70 and Yeah, they they wouldn't be hunting polar bears were frequently tamed during the middle ages. What? There's no bears been captured alive in Iceland. Oh, but since then receding north pole ice is diminishing their hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival. All this exciting and islam is 890 16 years after the first people got there But what's crazy if you what's crazy if you think about that is all it would take if people weren't there It's two polar bears over the course of polar bears lifetime to wash up on the island and then you have a population of polar bears Right, do you know what I mean? Right the male swims there five years later the female swims there boom There's population of right. There's plenty of food, you know What an adventurous female would have to be 1252 Henry the third took delivery of a white bear sent him as a gift from King Hakkan the fourth of Norway He decided to keep it in the Tower of London the bear was either too big or too exciting to be taken to Oxfordshire Where there had been a royal menagerie at Woodstock since Harry the Henry the first reign What's more it needed to fish so the beast was sent to the tower and from what we could tell it was well looked out for Although it had a muzzle and a chain to wear while on land the sheriffs of London were obliged to lay out more than a Shilling a week for its upkeep which added up over a year to roughly the expected income of a night Wild story no guns to stop and what the hell would you do? Bows and arrows I guess in spears the bear had a long swimming leash the man wore waterproof clothes what? The keeper so it had a keeper The bear came with a nori norwegian keeper and the keeper was allowed to lead fishing trips into Thames How do you say that Thames? The Thames River. Yeah, which the tower sat the men wore waterproof clothes again built to the crown The bear had a long swimming leash There were salmon the Thames in those days so while being in London was probably not half It's so pleasing the bear sitting on an ice flow and the Arctic Circle. It sure be working the way this guy wrote this is hilarious by the way Yeah, they don't want to sloth bear is yeah mean is anything there's they're in Japan right India India and into Nepal in that area Amazing they're like a perfect example of not the size of the dog in the fight But the fight in the dog because they're not a very big bear, but they will take on tigers and everything else they A certain group. I don't know the name of a tribe. I think in India used to capture sloth bears and they'd put a ring in its nose like like a nose ring and then this barbaric it doesn't happen anymore But then they would take the bear onto the street as a street performer I just read about this and they would light a fire and put like a big sheet metal over it and Then walk the sloth bear on to it so the bear would dance because its feet were burning. Yeah And yeah, they call it the dancing bears. I guess it was in Nepal and Yeah, it's a horrific thing the people used to rude Imagine doing that though and being like oh, this will be this will be worth a shilling or two like well bear baiting They used to do that with dogs. They used to have a chained up bear and they were allowed dogs to fight the bear Yeah, it's crazy. They do that with bulls Yeah, you know, they have a chained up bull and have Dogs attack the bull. Yeah, they used in South Africa in the early colonial days They used to do with baboons and let the dogs and the baboons fight and bet money on it. Yeah, people are so gross It's crazy, but you know like I always have this weird stance Do I agree with any of it? Of course not, but we wouldn't be where we were and care about wildlife and conservation if we hadn't made some of those mistakes. - Is that what that is, a mistake? - I mean, it's also if you hadn't seen half of your friends get cut and half by swords, your understanding of the value of life is probably completely distorted. - Completely, yeah. - You're living in a horrific time, everyone's dying of the plague. - Violence is entertainment. - Right, do you know what I mean? Like that is something to do, and life value is incredibly low. - Right, like life comes and goes. - The Coliseum was when, when was that? - I don't know, I should, but I don't. - I think it was 2000 plus years ago. - Yeah. - Somewhere around there, when they first started having these crazy games there, - Do you know they used to flood the Coliseum and do ship battles and things? - I went there a few years back and we went on a tour. - Was it cool? - That was amazing. - But it's also like you stand there and you try to take it in. Like when I go to these ancient places, I try to just like sit and just try to imagine. Like when you're actually, it's one thing to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video, but when you're actually in the spot, when you're in Athens, and you're like standing at the Parthenon and I'm like, okay, what the fuck was this like? - Yeah, yeah. - What was this like? - And that was like the center of everything. - Everything. - Yeah. - Democracy. - Exactly. - Yeah, exactly. - And also drugs, those guys were high as fuck. They were all doing drugs. - It was, we went to Ulysses. Ulysses, Ulysses rather. And that's the place where they had the Illusionian mystery schools and people would go on this track where they wouldn't eat and they'd walk from Athens and they would have these psychedelic rituals. And you're in this place where they did it, you could feel it, it's weird. - Obviously not synthetic, but was it just mushrooms? What were these psychedelics? - Totally no, but they have had residue from some of these clay pots that had Urgot in it. - What's Urgot? - Urgot is a fungus that has a very similar psychoactive effect as LSD. - Oh, interesting. - It's, I think it has Lycurgic acid in it. Like what, let's find out what the, what would actually, it also kills people. There's been cases of Urgot poisoning through wheat. - Oh, interesting. - People have died. And they also think it's connected to the Salem witch trials. - Oh, driving people crazy. - Yeah. - So the Salem witch trials, I don't know if there's been proven if this is just a theory, but the idea is that, if you have an early frost and that some of the wheat survives, but the wheat can have this fungus on it that grows Urgot. - Okay. - So this Urgot fungus. And so you're eating this wheat and you're making beer out of it and like everybody's tripping balls. I think I don't know how fucking witch it was. - Zero, zero, on accidental acid. - That's hilarious. - Yeah. - Probably like, man, this beer is really good. - Right. - Until there's a witch. And then you're like, man, this beer's bad. - Oh, there's also, I mean, imagine, first of all, you've got a bunch of crazy superstitions and people are afraid of everything already. 'Cause you don't know anything about science. - You don't understand it, right? - Yeah. - So there's a lot of fears. And then there's a lot of people that claim to be the wise people of the town and they tell you crazy stories about witches and you're like, oh, which is a real? - Yep. - Oh, for sure. - So, life-surgic acid amides. Urgot metrin. All these share life-surgic acid-urgling core, which is why LSD semi-synthesized from life-surgic acid is chemically related to urgot compounds. - And all of this comes from that mold on the week. - Yeah, wasn't there a time where they did it to people on purpose in France? I feel like this might have been like a CIA thing. See if you can find that story. - God or LSD? - Urgot. I think they, they, because I think they were experimenting on the effects of urgot and I think they like picked a town and said, let's see, 'cause we know they've done that before. We definitely know they've, like, just hit a whole place. - Yeah, let's see, let's see. - Yeah, why not? - Like, think about like what we found out during MK Ultra that the CIA was running brothels and they would give the Johns LSD. - Really? - It was literally called Operation Midnight Climax. And so what they would do is they would have these two-way mirrors set up. - Uh-huh. - This is proven. - This is the guy saying. - This is a Jolly West, who was the head of MK Ultra. - Okay. - Who would, they would say, let's find out what happens when you give people acid, what's the best way? Well, you get a bunch of people and do it to them in a way that, you know, totally unethically, but this is the way they're not gonna tell that you did it to 'em because they went to a whore house. Like, no one's gonna admit they went to a whore house. - Right. - So you get these guys, they go to the, get the prostitute, the prostitute's like, would you like a drink? - Like, oh, I love it, of course. - Of course, yeah. - Hard day at work. Hard day at work here. The guy sits down, he's thinking, well, I'm gonna fuck, this is gonna be great. And that's it, I'm gonna fucking waltz around. - He's tripping balls. - Oh my god. - The candles talking to him. (laughing) - Did you find anything about the French thing? - Here it is. I likely think of the infamous Saint Esprit cursed bread incident of 1951, long-running allegation that wasn't Urgot at all, but a secret CIA, US Army, LSD experiment. What happened in Ponce Saint Esprit, this small town in southern France, hundreds of residents suddenly suffered violent hallucinations, convulsions in Sobna and psychotic episodes over several days. 250 people were affected, 50 were committed to asylum, seven died, including some who leapt from windows, convinced they could fly, or being chased by snakes and tigers. The official French investigation blamed Urgot contaminated rye flower from a local baker, classic ergotism, St. Anthony's fire. That's another case of it. Some later scientists, or maybe the same story. Some later scientists proposed alternative culprits, mercury, fungicide, nitrogen, trichloride, bread bleaching agents, or micotoxins from aspergillus fumigatus? I call bullshit on this. This seems like something where they test. Yeah, it seems like a CIA thing for sure. 2009 American investigative journalist, HP albererally, albererally, junior published a terrible mistake, arguing that Ponce Saint Esprit was actually a covert LSD field test run jointly by CIA's MK, MK Ultra programs, and the U.S. Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick with Swiss drug company Sandos, who first synthesized LSD, allegedly supplying the compound. So his evidence included a declassified CIA document quoting a Sandos representative saying the Ponce Saint Esprit secret is being discussed alongside references to LSD. Oh, they definitely did it. Yeah, it sounds way more likely. That's way more likely. A testimony he attributed former CIA SOD scientist, Frank Olsen, who died in a 1953 fall from a New York City hotel room after being dosed with LSD by his colleagues. What a bunch of assholes, seriously. These guys just dosed at each other. It admitted MK Ultra incident. Interviews with former U.S. intelligence officials, why most historians remain skeptical. Sirius pushback came quickly. So symptoms don't match LSD. Victims had gangrene like vasoconstriction, weeks long psychosis, and physical necrosis consistent with Urgot alkaloids, not a single acute LSD dose. Interesting. LSD is water soluble and heat sensitive, so baking bread would degrade it. The Sandos cable, alborelli, cited is ambiguous and predates the incident in some readings, no corroborating documentation as surface despite extensive MK Ultra declassification since the 1970s church committee hearings. Yeah, but the problem with that is one of the reasons why we know about MK Ultra was evidence that they found that had been in storage. So when you say freedom of information act, they don't give you shit. They just bait you with a little bit here and there to go, oh okay, we know now. They'll just tell you we don't have any evidence. Go fuck yourself. I mean, look how hard it is to get the Epstein files. This is a guy that was all live in 2019, right? Where there were plenty of records of everything exactly, and the internet, right? This reminds me, do you know about the Lyme disease? Oh yeah. You know about this, like the Plum Island thing? Oh yeah. Seems very serious. I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist. This one to me is like a no-brainer. Well, it's also people want to say that Lyme disease has existed forever. Absolutely, true. Not to the extent that it exists today. Also, not as contaminant. Like not, not as straight as right. And spreading, like crazy, like crazy, like it's just sweeping out west. Not only that, Plum Island, they were absolutely doing gain of function research on ticks. And the idea was, the reason why they were doing it, and this is all me, what I've read, I don't have any direct information. Yeah, but it's still fun. But what they said was what they were doing was engineering ticks with these diseases. So what they could do is they could spray them from planes and they would overwhelm the medical system of any, like overwhelm a town, overwhelm their armies. You couldn't keep up. And they wouldn't be able to fight. That's right. And it could wipe out food sources. It had like multiple implications. Exactly, yeah, exactly. So now we have these fucking creeps from the world economic forum that are talking about the dangers of eating meat, right? And about how people eating meat is what's wrong with them. That's why it's accelerating climate change, all horseshit. But they're saying, it and they're saying that it's almost a moral obligation to create a tick or to create more ticks that would have this alpha gal in them. The one that makes you allergic to meat. Yes. Yeah. So they're saying that they want more of that? Yes. Bro. This guy was talking about, not only that, I have a buddy who has it. My friend Evan from Black Rifle Crawfee's talk about it. Oh yeah. I know Evan. Yeah. One of my best friends. Love him to death. Evan has it bad and it fucks him up. It's not as simple as he's allergic to red meat. Like if fucks up all of his blood work, his body's a mess. And he picked it up hiking and hunting and he got a tick and he didn't know and he got it. My friend, Bird Crusher, his wife's family, half of them have this fucking problem. No way. Yeah. They live in the East Coast. Yeah, Tennessee. Yeah. East Coast. This is the Texas Loan Star tick. It's a Loan Star tick. It's not the Texas Loan Star tick. It's this one tick carries this thing and they think that that might perhaps be genetically engineered as well. It's crazy. Because there was no alpha-gal problem 30, 40 years ago. It just didn't exist. No. And it's like ubiquitous. And it's everywhere. It's spreading too. Yeah. It's crazy. I never used to think twice about getting a tick. I get ticks all the time hiking around doing the stuff I do. I never used to think twice about it. Now I'm terrified of it. Yeah. I'm terrified of me. I'm terrified of it now. It's not just the red meat. I'm diseases fucking devastating. Well, I'm diseases. You don't catch it early. It can fuck with you the rest of your life. Uh-huh. Yeah. I know multiple people that have it including Jim Miller got fights in the UFC. Yeah. Really bad. Jesus. And it fucked up his career for quite a while but he got his diet under wraps and he figured out like what to eat, what not to eat and now he's fine. Do you know about some of those other animal warfare things they used to do? Like the spy tech they put in city cats. Do you know about this? Oh, dude. There's some amazing ones. Spy tech and cats. So during World War II, uh, Jamie would have to confirm what city this was in. Uh, I believe it was the Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats. Because because the, the, the Brits would go and meet in back alleys and have meetings but there were feral cats everywhere. So they'd have all these cats running around with these wires in their brains and stuff and these little little, yeah, acoustic kitties. That's it. The CIA. Dude, how crazy is this? A acoustic kitty was a central intelligence agency project launched by the directorate of science and technology in the late 1960s and the 1960s tended to use cats to spy on the Kremlin and Soviet embassies in an hour long procedure of veterinary surgeon implanted a microphone in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter at the base of its skull and a thin wire into its fur. Oh my God. How crazy. Imagine that. You're just like having a secret meeting in a back cove, you know, back alley and there's a cat there just live streaming your conversation to the CIA go back up a little bit here. It says, do the cat sense of hunger had to be addressed in another operation? What? Interesting. First acoustic kitty mission was eve drop on two men in a park outside the Soviet embassy in Washington, DC. The cat was released nearby but was hit and allegedly killed by a taxi almost immediately. That's probably the thing was all fucked up. It probably couldn't get us like, what is in my head, put a wire in my head. This gets a friendly cat. How were this disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace, a former director of the Office of Textional Service who said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required and that the equipment was taken out of the cat. The cat was re-soned for a second time and lived for a long and happy life afterwards. Lies. Come on. You fucking kill that cat. It got hit by a taxi but it was fine and they took it out of it's head. But I mean more than one cat, I'm sure. But this idea, the equipment was taken out of the cat. The fuck you did that, you spent money taking the equipment out. Did you really? Or did you just kill the cat? A hundred percent. Fucking assholes. Dude, there's a few of these and the bats that would light fires, you know about those ones. Hold up. The military did not give up on this use of animals as spies. Because in 2006 the Pentagon requested a creation of a cyborg, cyborg insects for use in espionage. The request was made by fucking DARPA, of course, of the Pentagon. Scientists had Cal Berkeley responded by creating a controllable cyborg beetle in October of 2009. What? There's a cockroach under your carpet here listening to us somewhere right now. They're not going to hear anything other than the stuff we already talked about. Yeah, true. The wonderful thing about having such a retarded show is like, who cares, just say it all anyway. Yeah. Whoa, look at this. Look at this. Look at this as a fucking battery in the beetle. That's crazy. Come on. That's crazy. Look at the microchip on its back. It's amazing that the beetle can live through all this. It's pretty amazing. That's wild. Wow. And I guess as these things have gotten smaller and smaller as chips and battery technologies and creatures. Of course. They have your cell phone in '09 compared to now. Right. Yeah. Fucking wild, man. There were a few of these. They used to light bats on fire and then they'd send them to roost and then they'd burn down whole towns and things like that. That's going back. Dude, there's spy pigeons where they put cameras like there's a there's a handful of these that the CIA tried. Well, how about what they do with dolphins? Oh, like the, oh, you know the whole, the, um, not beluga. What's, yeah, it was the beluga. The Russian spy whale. I don't know that. I was talking about dolphins that they use to detonate things. Oh, tell me about it. I don't know about it. They use dolphins as like literal distributors of warheads. Oh, really? Get a dolphin to go somewhere and then they blow them up. No way. Like a kamikaze dolphin. Yeah, I don't know the exact details of it because I got sad when I was reading about it. Oh. It's a fork. Yeah. I have a deep attachment to dolphins. I fucking love dolphins. I always say anybody who hates dolphins has to be a bad person. I've had some experiences with them. I had one where I was like really high on edibles in Hawaii and um, the dolphins would jump out of the water near the boat and they look at you. Yeah. They look at you when they were jumping out of the water like look, look at me. Yeah. Like look. We're doing this thing. And they're literally just playing. They're playing. Yeah. One hundred percent playing because they came to the boat and they were jumping in the wake of the boat. Mm-hmm. And the more you would cheer and yay. Look at that. The more they do it. They were doing it. And they were having fun and I was like, these are incredible creatures. Oh, they totally pick up on your energy. So the secret dolphin program began in 1959, detect underwater mines and enemy divers. But I think they did stuff where they, you mean whether this is correct or they just like, the one that says the history, it says that they didn't do anything to harm humans or engage in combat. They like, tell their handlers to do it. The one that I've heard about is that they put them out ahead. They were just signifying in dark water because they could see stuff better than our current technology back then. So they would echolocate and say, "Yo, we got something over here. Come check it out." That's what this is. Well, how's the dolphin communicate that back to the people and how's it know what the person's intended? [laughter] No, no, no. That's pretty good. I think there was some speculation that they actually used them as weapons though. Well, have you seen, not to transition off dolphins, but Valdemir, Valdemir, the Vladimir? I don't know. Is there a real thing, like, like, 100% this one's real? So there was this Baluga whale named Valdemir or Vladimir or something like that. And he turned up in Norway and he was escaped from a Russian spy program and he had a harness with spy gear on him. This is him, right here. Look, see the spy gear on him? It's like a whole thing. And so the Russians had been training this whale as a spy and had harnesses and spy equipment on him. And then he just pieced out and turned up in, I want to say Norway. And then they followed him for a while and then he mysteriously got shot, mysteriously. Yep. Some things with the dolphin. Like, with the dolphins, though, I don't know if this is accurate, but I did read this one time that we would, like, if we knew Russia was doing this, we would put some paperwork out that said, well, we've got dolphins that are, you know, blowing up minds. Right. Just so you guys know it. Yeah. Now we got to figure that out. Yeah. Wow, goose chases. That's a good point. That's a good point. Right. How cool do beluga whales look though? Look at that thing. That looks like an alien. No, they're super super. I mean look at that That looks like if the we have come to your planet. They're also discuss your use of nuclear power And he would talk in that very calm tone. That looks like something that would be very calm No, that was it. Yeah, this was a crazy, but you know the John Lillie research with dolphins. Do you know about them? I'm not sure. Okay, John Lillie is the guy who invented the sensory deprivation tank. Oh, yeah, he's one of those. Yeah, yeah, we have one over Yeah, John Lillie was the man who was the inspiration for the movie Altered States. Okay, so John Lillie who was this really interesting guy and was famously like Out there with psychedelics like he would he would take intramuscular doses of ketamine and jump in the sensory deprivation tank Oh damn. Yeah, trying to unlock brain things. My friend Todd actually did it with him. Oh wow. Yeah, so John Lillie Who was also a pioneer in interspecies communication so they were trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins So they set up a house and this lady lived with the dolphins in the house to get the dolphin and try trying to coach the dolphin And the way like literally she lived in water. So the water was like, you know, four feet deep She lived with this dolphin the problem was the dolphin was super horny Oh, yeah, so the only way that she could get this dolphin to cooperate was she had to jerk him off. Yep, so she was jerking off the dolphin and some of how or know that they found out and they cut the funding for research, but she had to do it. That's what I said. You got to do it. That's the joke. That's what you look like. She liked it though. Look at her. The way she's talking to him. She's like, yeah. I mean, after a while, she probably did enjoy a little bit. I mean, what else are you going to do? You're stuck in a tank with a dolphin. The girl who talked to dolphins. So is there a documentary on this? Yeah. Oh, let's, is there a clip? Was it like blurry, we see her hand moving? A water turn and white. So I guess, but if she jerked the dolphin off, then the dolphin would try to talk to her. But the thing was, you can't really get them to, they can't make the noises that we want them to make. They don't have the ability, like you could say. But it can't, like the vocal cords aren't there for it. That's one of the things where AI may actually start to make a huge difference. Yeah. Right. Because they are able to decipher a lot of like citation, like dolphin and whale language now. And with enough of a database, they'll start to be able to say, like this, this means this, this means this. How they actually deciphered? So it's coming up to a, so based, you know, AI works. You have to train it on something. Is this the lady? She looks like a kind of lady. It would do that. She got a real dolphin jerk look to her. This is a crazy story to this. Listen to these orca whales imitate human speech. No, says it's responding. I mean, yeah. Oh, there's your guy. That's my guy. Yeah. Let me hear it. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. It's getting there. It's trying. Yeah. Oh. Hello. It's amazing. Whoa. One, two. I bet what it wants to say is, let me go. You fucking asshole. Put me back in the ocean. You raise a bitch. Quit jerking me off. Maybe if they jerked off the killer whales, they wouldn't have killed them. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you're like, just like sea world alone. It's just, it's so awful. And it wasn't until those, that documentary, what was it called? Blackfish. Blackfish? Yeah. That was like the first one where people went like, hey, there's really eye opening. Yeah. We shouldn't support this at all. I mean, I can't believe people still even go to fucking sea world. It's pretty crazy. It's basically prison. You know about those two in France that are trapped there? No. Oh, this is interesting. So there is basically a sea world equivalent in France. And the government shut it down. I forget the, I'm sure we can figure it out, but it was shut down. But then the dolphins and the two orcas were not released. And the guys like, these are mine. I'm not releasing them. And I kind of forward to release them or move them. So they've just been sitting in these abandoned tanks for, I want to say a year now. Maybe, maybe more. Yeah. This is it here. The race to save these two. Jamie, I don't know if you can see if there's an aerial shot of it, but yeah, so they're just sitting in this thing. But, but it's closed. The guy kind of forward to feed them because nobody's visiting. And then I believe the government just doesn't want to do anything about it because they're like, we just wanted to shut you down. We don't want to actually like do anything about it. So there's just these two orcas sitting in these tanks. And how they get food. I mean, he's feeding them, but he's like doing it out of his pocket and it's like few and far between. Oh, man. So yeah, it's it's a crazy. They're they're yeah, the abandoned whales and they're just sitting in these tanks. We've had a, you know, Phil Demers is he's a guy who he helped shut down marine land in Canada. Okay. Yeah. This was an awful awful bad facility. There's so many of these fucking places like that. We see what they're doing. And you're just like, oh, man, if we could understand them. Yeah. And we could I think someday in the future, we're going to look back at that. The way people today look back at slavery. Oh, totally. We're going to say these are intelligent creatures. They just they just don't have the ability to manipulate their environment. Like we do. Yeah, but like just dolphins. There's cerebral cortex is 40% larger than a human beings. So something's going on in there. And you think it's okay to put them in a swimming pool. That's crazy. Dude, it's the same thing like what I was talking about elephants. They're they're EQ. They're emotional intelligence. We can't even comprehend it. Right. The way those animals feel like the highs that an elephant experiences and the lows that experience are way bigger than the highs are lows that most humans. I think any human can experience like their EQ is way bigger than ours. The trauma that they feel from losing a loved one or from being abused or whatever it happens to be is like 10x what humans can even emotionally comprehend. How do we know that based on their their brain scans and whatnot. I don't know the specifics of it. But because that part of their brain is so much larger than ours. And so you have these they might not have the same like competitive skills as we do mentally, but they have this emotional intelligence. It's like so much deeper and broader than ours. At least that's my belief. It is a weird thing with us where we only characterize intelligence as the ability to manipulate your environment. Yeah. Like we want you to write a book. Right. I don't trust you. You're real. You're really smart. Make a house. You should prove it. How come you don't have a rocket ship? Right. You're so smart. Where's your phone? Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's weird. It's weird. It's weird, right? It's a weird way to look at things. Yeah. It's like I think there's a part of people that recognize that this this direction that people like that this classification of intelligence in that way is is wrong. But I don't I don't think we can really quantify it yet. And if AI really can decipher a dolphin language, orca language, whale language, if they really can and we realize that they're actually communicating, God, I would hope that would change our approach to how we deal with those things. I think it would. Because there's I think they are see people. I really do. Yeah. They're just they don't need to manipulate their environment. First of all, they can travel 3D. Yeah. They go up. They go down. They go across. They can hold the breath for an hour. Yeah. They don't need to make a house. No. Their food is everywhere. Also, they're at the top of the fucking food chain. It's right. They're orcas. And they're no they're nomadic. They don't they don't we are not nomadic by trade. So we have to manipulate our environment to make it more comfortable or because they're not low. Yeah, we move so fast they can make a sunfish explode straight up. Yeah. We're so slow. Like the fastest people like we just run into each other and knock each other unconscious. That's that's what we could do. Fun to watch though. Dude, but I want to go back to what you said about I agree by the way about orcas and captivity and whales and things like that. There's this huge anti zoo movement that I just don't agree with though. Like I I believe I agree with you that in the future we'll go why did we keep animals the way we did and when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes and stuff. Uh-huh. But there's so much good that animals and captivity have done saving species, keeping things alive, connecting kids to nature. There's a there's a lot of gray area. There's there's new ones and there's fucking San Diego Zoo. There's a lot of nuance to it. San Diego Zoo is an excellent example of a really great zoo. It's unbelievable. It's incredible. I've been to that place before. Yeah. Um, but I also went to that wolf place with you. Yeah. And that made me sad. I know. Yeah, I know. I went there. I was bummed out, man. But at least they're rescuing them. You know, like I know what they also cut their balls off. Yeah. That bummed me out hardcore. Otherwise they all fight. I mean, but that's the gray area that you have like what's the alternative? You know, it's like they die. Let them lose, but then none of, but only a few of them were pure wolves. You can't just let loose a wolf dog, you know, because then you're muddying jeans. It's such a complicated thing. Well, isn't that the whole reason why black wolves exist in the first place? I think black wolves exist because it's a trait that they got from domesticated dogs. I read that and then I read it was false and then I read it again. I don't know what the truth behind that is. It's put it into perplexity. We should. The probably say it's a Roganess claim. Today's podcast. I don't know what that's like. You kind of get a good. That's interesting. How do you word that? Would you say, is it true that black wolves inherited that trait from domesticated dogs? Because that is one thing that absolutely has happened as it has been interbreeding between. Oh, yeah. And not just on purpose. No, no. Look, yeah. It happened. Yeah. I mean, you get to play wolves and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is the genetic mutation of a black fur color brought about by domestication? Yes. Hold on. Sorry. Throwing a lot at you, Jamie. Is it is the black the trait of black wolves? Did they inherit that from domesticated dogs? I had it my thing. Is that good enough or not? From domesticated dogs. Yeah. Yeah. See what it says. Let's say do do do not point it enough. Let's start guessing. I love watching it work. Or it's like spinning. Yes. This is well supported by genetic research. Black coat color in North American wolves comes from mutation in the K locus, especially specifically three base pair deletion in the CBD 103. I don't know what that little thing is. Yeah, I don't know. Defense in gene. Beta defense. Is that what it is? I think so. Produces a dominantly inherited melanistic phenotype. The mutation originated in dogs and moved into wolves through hybridization. Not the other way around. In 2009, study by Anderson at all first identified the KB black allale in wolves is derived from dog dog wolf interbreeding, follow up work analyzing 331 wolves and 20 dogs found that North American wolf, how do you say that word, haplow type, are monophyletic, meaning I feel like you're my teacher, a single good job, introgression event from dogs, most likely ceded the allale through the continent, probably in the Yukon or Northwest Territors, you know, I went to where colossal, I know, made the dire wolf, then texted me when you guys went, that was an interesting experience, was that cool to see, yes, I haven't even seen them, I know it's a whole hush, hush, you know, I brought my youngest daughter and she was cuddling with the four month old wolf, well there you go, you can cuddle with them when they're four months old, yeah, until a certain point, but it was like a puppy, and it was still huge, right, no, no, no, no, no, it was pretty small, yeah, it's like a 40 pounds, okay, it's not outrageous, fucking cute man, she was so sweet, she was so sweet, she would cuddle with you, and you pet her and she'd kiss you, that's cool, it was like a fucking dog, man, that is a, yeah, Romulus, there you go, that is a, oh my god, she's so sweet, but the males, they had two males that had a police, that's her name, that's right, Colisee's the girl, so there's Romulus, look how cute they are when they did a baby, remiss, Romulus, and then Colisee the girl, that's pretty cool, so Colisee was the one that we got to cuddle with, man they're cute, oh my god, she was so fucking adorable, but you could only hang out with her for a little while, and then they got big, yeah, and now they're big, yeah, he sends me pictures, so they were like that when we went there, like that size picture, that size, yeah, I don't know if I let my kids in with a wolf that size, well, they kept away from you, and we were in a large contained area, but we got to go out with them, and they just kind of hang out and look at you, they keep away from you for the most part, but she didn't, she just came right up, but she can't be with them yet, she was too little, it was too like, they didn't want her to get killed, just too sketchy, she was tiny, and she was still a baby still, but they were older, I think they were a year or close to a year, but they could hang out with them for the first like five or six months I think, and then after a while they just got different, there's also some stuff about them that they didn't even know dire wolves had, like the mane, which is really interesting, they get archman, they have a mane, almost like a lion's, which they didn't know, and they didn't know they were going to be white either, now is that a variant from their genetic mutation work, or is that something that's just expressing itself, very good question that you would have to talk to a geneticist about, because like there's a lot of people that don't even agree they're actually dire wolves, a lot, yeah, a lot, they're essentially saying the way you've done is you've taken the traits of dire wolves and you've made them be expressed in a gray wolf, this is a gray wolf, but that's what Beth says they've done, you know what I mean? Like she's, she's not, they're not hiding that, they're like, we're trying to fill an each, we're trying to make something, yes, yeah, but she's also said that I think I don't want to mischaracterize, but essentially what they're saying is, but that's what a dire wolf was, right, like that they are a wolf that has all of these traits, right, like the size is the same, the look is the same, you can get technical and say no, you've taken a gray wolf and made it, but yes, but they got those genes specifically from dead dire wolves, right, right, so it's like, well, what is it, is it our own classification of these things that we're disputing, right, because we can't just decide, like this, I call this a dire wolf, and that's what it is, like the genes don't give a fuck what labels you put on, not at all, you know, and if you make a dinosaur, like that's not a real T-rex, it ate everyone in the city, right, it's a real T-rex, it just took over a fucking city, right, just ate everyone in a VW bus, 30 foot tall lizard, it's a dinosaur, like it doesn't matter how you shape it, yeah, oh, the woolly mouse is really cool, too, yeah, they're really neat, Ben, Ben told me one day I could have a woolly mouse, so I'm holding him to that, yeah, it's, it's really interesting seeing the dire wolf, though, and just imagining, what was it like when those things are just roaming the earth, I know, because it's like a 300 pound wolf that's all white with like thick fur and a mane, like a lion, dude, speaking of roaming the earth, have you heard the theory about how sloth bears stopped, sorry, not sloth bears, what were the big cave bears in the mix, short face, short face bears stopped human immigration, yeah, have you read about that, yeah, that's really cool, totally makes sense, totally does, they just stood there waiting for people like salmon to cross the bearing land bridge, and they're like, well, it's that time of year again, also like who would do that knowing that those things are out there, that thing was so big, yeah, it's like double the size of a polar bear, it's crazy, yeah, it's crazy, a twice large polar bear that is can run 50 miles, look at that thing, I don't care how smart we are, that is not something you want to face, right, even if you have a gun, like good luck, like if you have a nine millimeter handgun, and you run across a grizzly bear, you're dead, yeah, it's not going to be an firepower, no, so what are you going to hit that thing with? Well, they have rocks, so you know, that's good, rocks and spears, yeah, rocks, oh rocks, I mean, when they first started coming across, did they even have a fucking pose, and arrows, yeah, I don't know, yeah, but they, I mean, spears for sure, but like that, but then there's the real question, is that the only way people got here, right, when you see the white sand footprints that are 22,000 years old, and you start going, okay, well, this predates the ice age, yeah, it's before any humans were known anywhere in the new world, yeah, so it's like, well, what's going on there, right, because this is actual human footprints, right, that have been dated to 22,000 years ago, yeah, and that's just all we found, yeah, that's just because they left footprints, yeah, like that doesn't mean there wasn't something there, 50,000 years before 100,000 years, exactly, exactly, and then there's in Mexico, this evidence that looks like predation on mammoth bones by humans, oh really, yeah, spearheads and things, like carvings into mammoth bones, and looks like they're broken open to get marrow, very disputed, right, because there's also, some people that think it could have been like some rocks falling on the bones, a fracture, sure, sure, I'm not sure how this is happening, but it does think that, oh, let me write this up for Joe, fuck off, I'm about to figure something out, I'm about to erase some stuff, what it, we're going to forget a separate computer that we're going to use for perplexity, what is the question, oh sorry, well, how would humans have contested short face bears on the bearing street? Well, let me write this up for Joe, fuck off, man, like a baby, so that the actual evidence of all of the bears kept humans out of North America doesn't hold up any longer, apparently. So, yeah, when I was following people, so it was a myth that someone, a scientist, sort of commented on a paper that doesn't necessarily, he could have thought that, but they didn't have evidence for it. Well, here's the thing, like the idea of a bear line, no, because the problem is, bears, they would have to eat so much to sustain that kind of mass, yeah, there couldn't really have been a lot of them. No, but it sure makes sense that they were predating upon people when they came across them. Oh, hold up, hold up, go back, go back up here, this, this guy's saying something cookie. He's saying that hyper carnivore built for pacing long distance, he argued that it was primarily a scavenger using a size sense of smell and long legged gait to kleptoparitiside, paris satis. You got it, there it is. Kills from lions, dire wolves, and cimitar cats, rather than the rundown prey itself. That doesn't even make sense. Long legged gait would make it faster. I heard about this, so yeah, the theory is that short face bear would come in and rob a kill, like basically what a hyena does to lions, or wolves do to mountain lions. Yes, but I think it, to me, it doesn't add up. Well, you know, grizzly bears chase down moose and kill them. There's plenty of video, I watched a video yesterday of it. They've also shown now that hyenas are incredibly efficient predators, and until like 10 years ago, we thought hyenas were only scavengers, or 50, I mean, it's longer than that. But you know what I mean, and now they show they have like a 30% success rate, which is very high. Yeah, there's no reason why they wouldn't be if they're carnivores, like why would they be completely relying on other animals to do the work for them when they have that kind of biting power? They, they're just opportunistic, like old carnivores. And they move as packs. Yeah. They work as pack animals, so they kind of move like dogs. If you're going to get food, get food, you know what I mean? If you can kill it, kill it, if you can fight something off for it, fight something off for it. Like it doesn't really matter. That's how carnivores are. What does this say? What do you say? It says this is how they hunted brown bears. They probably would have done it the same way. Oh, get them in the dens. And then burn it, burn the entrance with fire, probably kill the babies. Right. But that's if you had access to fire. They had an adult, adult in a spear at best, and maybe some fire that they could maybe move, you know? You know how close you have to be to hit something with an adult adult. Yeah. Okay. There's, there's some videos that are really interesting where they're showing people realistic scenarios where bears charging you and they pull them out. Yeah. Yeah. Showing bear spray and guns, like showing them like a mat. Like imagine you have a 10 millimeter semi-automatic pistol and you have to rack it so you have to rack a slide. Yeah. Yeah. So the gun, the bear is coming. You have to draw the gun, rack it. Make the safety off. And then point it towards the animal and squeeze it through. You're dead. You're done. You're already dead. It's like that. It has to be like a hundred yards away from you as it starts running for you to get a shot off. I think the like idea is the bear gives you some sign. Look at that bullshit ass thing. I tried one. It is impossible to throw accurately. Well, that's true, but you're not practiced in it. No. Yeah, I mean, I've seen people that are super accurate with spears. Isn't your buddy Adam Greentree, doesn't he do the atlettle? I think I've seen him tell him that he probably knows how to do it, but I mean, it's not a good weapon. No. I mean, it's definitely better than no weapon. I mean, what's the advantage over throwing a spear? It just goes further. Mechanical average. Yeah. So it's, I have a thing like that for my dog. It's like a, it's like a thing, the ball that has a ball in the end of it. And you can, it's so easy to not blow your shoulder out. You can throw it pretty fucking far. Right. Yeah, and I, whenever, every time I do it, I was like, wow, of course, this is way better. Yeah. So you get this extra leverage with this thing. And then also you can kind of whip it with your wrist and you get all this action with the ball. You would do the same thing with a spear, with a lateral. It makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense. It seems hard to be accurate though. Super hard. Well, it's hard to be accurate with a traditional bow. Right. You know, it's so hard. Yeah. You know, I shoot a compound bow. And a compound bow is, there's so much technology involved. Oh yeah. First of all, I have a laser range finder and I'll range something that says 52 yards. Then I go to my site tape that's on my site on my bow and I dial it to 52 yards because I use archery software that measures the weight of my arrow. So I have this 500 grain arrow and then it has the speed per, so it's 390 feet per second from a 500 grain arrow. And then I put it into this computer and it spits out a site tape so that I can move my pins specifically so I can put it in a quarter to 52 yards if I was accurate enough. I'm not. No one really is. Except like really excellent world class archers. Sure. But with a traditional bow, you're just guessing. Yeah. So you're just guessing the arc of the arrow and then you have to think, okay, I'm buying arrows, right? They're made by a guy who's measuring them. They're all down to like, they're within two grains of each other and they have like inserts. And my front of center is very high, perfect aerodynamics and they're made at a carbon fiber. These fucking arrows, they're making them by hand and then they're making the arrow heads by hand. So they could be off. Each one of them like, so you're just guessing where that fucking arrow is going to go. And you have to shoot every day to get a real sense of like what the drop is at a certain distance. And then you have to kind of judge how far is he, is he 20 yards, 30 yards, 50 yards. So even with modern traditional bows, and that's like, it sounds like a, yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. Re curves and long bows. Right. Right. I mean, that sounds like an oxymoron, but they are still traditional in the sense of you're not using cams. Yeah. Right. You don't have like a cam that rolls over and there's some mechanical advantage, fiber glass limbs and all this chast, you're using like wood still, right? Even with those things, you're still buying arrows and the arrows weigh the same amount. Yeah, they're perfect. If you did that over and over again in your yard, you did it every day for three hours a day, you would get a sense of how far and then if you did it a bunch, you'd get an idea of judging distances. Sure. And there's like little tricks. Sure. There's certain archery tournaments where you're not allowed to use a range finder. Oh, really? Yeah. And so the idea is you have to develop the skill of being it. And I think these tournaments probably started back when range finders didn't exist. Yeah. That's cheating. Keep that out. Right. And then the targets are at various. Yes. Yeah. And so guys develop a very good way of measuring distance. Sure. And what essentially they do is they can pretty accurately judge five yards and then they double that and then they triple that and then they try to figure it and they get within like ten or fifteen yards. Sure. But you know, that's a lot. Yeah. Even with a compound bow, you know, that drop of ten or fifteen yards is pretty significant. And something that's going three hundred feet a second. But when you're doing with a fucking wooden arrow that you made yourself with a stone tip like one of these bad boys, I have one here somewhere somewhere on this desk. Yeah. Here it is. Cool. Like that's something you made that. So if you make that one and then somebody else makes one right next to it, it might be fifteen grains different. It might be fifty grains different. And the aerodynamics are different. Yeah. Like the flint net thing is completely different. Yeah. Right. That's not good. I think it would plain like a motherfucker shot it out of a really good bow. And not to mention the stress of if I don't kill this thing, I'm either going to die or I'm not going to eat or you know, all the other things. And you have a fifteen foot bear. Right. Right. Probably bigger. Like was the height of a short face bear or the length? Like what is the, what is a big short face bear? You've seen those caves they have in like Missouri where they still claw marks from short face bears and things. Really? Oh yeah. You can go visit like middens of them in Missouri where they called out a cave like a den. Yeah, where they lived in dens and you could see their claw marks in the mud and everything else. It's amazing. Eleven to twelve feet. I think they probably have to be bigger than that because Kodiak bears get that big. Kodiak bears can get twelve feet. Do they get that big? Yeah. Kodiak? Yeah. I mean, maybe they're measuring them squirrely because you know like a lot of times they measure stuff to try to make it seem bigger. So what is the largest Kodiak bear ever killed? Let's look. Let's look that up. Largest Kodiak bear. Largest Kodiak bear ever killed. Ever recorded it. There you go. Recorded the same thing. Okay. They have it by weight. It's one thousand six hundred and fifty six pounds, which is by the way. Oh, it's me shit and sand. Yeah. And nearly a one-ton bear. Yeah. That's so crazy. The hind foot measured 18 inches. Oh God. How tall was it? How long was it? There was five hundred pounds more than that. Yeah. But over a ton. In a zoo? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. But he might have been fat. He was fat. Yeah. He might be a short fat. So. What is the, so what is the longest, the largest length? I'm pretty sure he's sitting. I think I've seen this bear and he's sitting in the Anchorage airport when you land there. Oh, there's a big, is that that bear? I think that's the largest bear ever killed. I've seen that. Yeah. I've seen that in Anchorage. That's, that thing's nuts. At the airport there? Yeah. Yeah. It's in like a glass case. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bear ever. Ever shot. Look at that one. Ever recorded 2,130 pounds. No, no, no length measurements anywhere. That's insane. That is so big. That's so crazy. Bear, the short face bear, they don't even really know how much it weighed. They're just basing it on the bones. Yeah. Right. They don't have a dead one. Now. So that, right, that photo up there, that's Fred Bear with his 1962 World Record Alaskan Bear. Go back to that photo that you just were at before. Yeah. Look at that. That's his stuffed bear. Geez. We shot that with an old bullshit bow. Yeah. Look at his bow. The recurve bow. Yeah. That bow sucks. Wooden arrows. Geez. That's so crazy. He was the first like modern bow hunter. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, he's the guy who popularized bow hunting. Fred Bear is a legend in the bow hunting world. And I mean, you got to think, how good does life have to be? Where you go? Let's try to do something that people you should do before guns. Yeah. Just because. Yeah. Because it wasn't really a thing that people practiced for fun, like the food had to be so readily available. Yeah. We had to say, let's make it harder. Yeah. Go backwards. Yeah. Yeah. Let's have so much food. Yeah. Let's make it more difficult. Yeah. And then there's guys today that they don't like compound bows because they're too easy. Yeah. They're using recurve. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. A famous bow hunter went back to using a recurve bow because it was killing too many things with a compound bow. Felt like it was too easy. But that's what happens, right? These guys master their craft, and when they spend all that time on it, and then they're like, how do I make the challenge harder on myself? It's also their competing with other world class bow hunters, like they're all like, who's the man? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a little bit of that. But that's also like, that's how they get good in the first place, like this weird thing about people in competition. You can say competition is bad, like, okay, are you saying that on your phone? Because how do you think you got a phone? Yeah. You got a phone because somebody is competing. Sure. So the people need to develop the phone. Like it's just a different kind of competition. I think competition is essential to human culture. It's certainly essential to progress. Yeah. And this is why socialism is never going to work. Yeah. You got to reward people. Yeah. If they're not rewarded, they're not going to work hard enough to do anything really spectacular. Why bother? So you're never going to get a laptop. Yeah. You would have never happened. You would have never had a high speed internet. Just a profit wildly for them to be enthusiastic about spending 17 hours a day making something like that. But that's the joy of competition paying off. Yeah. Right? It's like, I know not so much with bow hunting. But if you're competitive as a person to the point that you succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup or whatever happens to be you win and you get paid the most. We just have to have regulations to make sure that those people don't run a mock and then take over entire countries and become a monopoly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember all those? Remember that? No. How were they taking over? Bill Gates was a maniac. But it's still less. But before people think of Bill Gates now, well, now I think COVID kind of ruined his people's impressions of him. Now they think of him as a vaccine pusher. But also as a philanthropist, where he's doing philanthropy that makes millions and millions of dollars for him. Didn't he also put out that anti-protein? wasn't that him. Do you know what I'm talking about? I think Bill Gates' wife, Bill Gates correct me for a while, but Bill Gates' wife is vegan, I believe, and he funded like some Netflix documentary all on how like bodybuilders get huge about protein. Are you thinking about James Cameron? Am I thinking about James Cameron? I know James Cameron's wife is a vegan. I might be mixing them up. You're talking about game changers, that the vegan documentary, with the huge jacked guy being like I never touched protein. It turns out the problem, I think if you're looking at that from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory farming is bad, I'm on your page, I'm with you. But that had a clear agenda, also just not accurate. Anyway, I pirated your thing on Bill Gates though, sorry. So the point was, during the 1990s, there was all these trials where they had these monopolistic practices, and they were buying up competition or destroying competition. Just anybody that developed any computer, anybody that developed browsers that competed with Microsoft stuff. Yeah. Here is landmark 1990s trials, referred to United States versus Microsoft Corporation. Massive antitrust lawsuit filed by US Department of Justice in 20 states. Key elements included browser war integration, the antitrust ruling and the appellate settlement. So everybody in the 90s thought of him as this guy who is just like ruthless capitalist, it was trying to destroy all the competition. So he kind of reinvented himself. Got you. And the way he reinvented himself, first of all, he donated an enormous amount of money to the media. So to NBC, CBS, CNN, all these different, they gave him hundreds of millions of dollars just to fluff them basically. Just to kind of say, guys, I'm your friend. I'm your buddy over here. And then he developed the Bill and the Gates Foundation. And they were really concerned with global health. Oh my God. Dude, do you know what they did? Fucking in the Corbasa Delta with their mosquito nets? Why would you? But do you know what I'm talking about at all? No, what they do. Dude, I'm going to go on a fucking tirade here. Please do. Okay. So the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation decided that there was too much malaria in Africa, right? Which you and I could probably agree with. Malaria is bad. So what did they do? They gave all of these people living in tribal villages. I'm totally pirated. Your thing. I'm sorry, but I'm going to go on a fucking rant here. They gave all these people living in the Corbasa Delta, which is the bread basket of the Zambezi Valley, meaning like where more fish are born. It's a it's a nursery for fish, right? Not just there, but this is a good micro example. They gave millions of mosquito nets out to all these people to avoid malaria. Guess what the people who are starving to death did with their mosquito nets? The fish with them. They fished with them. Mosquito net has a hole that is so small that a mosquito can't get through. So guess what? These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby fish in areas like Corbasa, where the fish go to breed and reproduce and populate. So now all of a sudden you have thousands and thousands of people that have been handed nets that have been living one way for hundreds of thousands of years. Don't give a shit about malaria. They have their own way of dealing with malaria. They sit in smoky huts at night, they sleep with a campfire, everything else. Yes, they still get malaria, some of them, but they deal with it their own way. Bill Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions of mosquito nets, absolutely collapse. The entire population of fish that feed millions of people because these people just take the nets and fish all the baby fish out so that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources. So now these wonderful philanthropists that have given out millions of nets have destroyed an ecosystem, crashed a fish population and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty of resources, all because they were trying to help with their mosquito nets. Oh God. It's just like it's a fucking disaster, dude. They've taken such a rich and important part of Africa, one of the most abundant freshwater fisheries in the world and destroyed it because they're helping by handing out mosquito nets. Good God. Yeah, I don't know. Sorry, I told you I was going to rent, but it's like it's so bad what's happened over there. And they're still giving out mosquito nets, by the way. And you literally watch these guys line up, take a mosquito net and it never goes in their house. It goes straight to catching fish that are this big for them to eat. Oh God. Sorry. No, this is crazy. It's still bad for them. Tears like, can you just double up the net thing and just get them other nets too? Like say, hey guys. That's what happened in 2018. They got the new nets. Oh, you know, it says that's what I'm not some looking at the thing. Yeah. But it's good. It just totally grew and crashed the ecosystem. It completely crashed and it created widespread hunger in a place that had no hunger. So now you have people with malaria and hunger. Oh God. And it's like done from a place of good intent. Or maybe it isn't. And I think that's where you were going. But I don't think it is. Yeah. I think it's a it's a ruse. And I think there what a lot of it is is this thing. Like we are doing philanthropy. Yeah. But then you go, but you're profiting. You're making hundreds of millions of dollars from this philanthropy, right? Yeah. You're buying goodwill. And you're also on television promoting vaccines. Like why are you? You're a guy who didn't even graduate college. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I mean, I don't even know if you made it out of high school. Like he's a weird guy. He's obviously very smart. Yeah. Of course. But why are you not a health expert? Why? And you look like shit. Like why are you promoting health? Yeah. Like this is great. Could global health. Yeah. Like just a fucking weird guy, man. Yeah. The weirdest thing if you ever seen that, you know, he was obviously friends with Jeffrey Epstein or communicated with him and had some sort of a relationship. Gates did. Yes. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. It's popular. Got you. Well known. I feel like everybody is connected to Epstein now. Like I've lost a lot of people here. But the craziest conversation was there was a woman who was asking him. Did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? And he's just trying to say that the only reason why I talk to Jeffrey Epstein, because Jeffrey Epstein was going to, he was going to donate money to his philanthropy and all the different things that he's involved in. But it didn't work out. I do regret it. And and she said, did you, I forget what her question was, but Gates says, well, he's dead now. So there's that. There's something about it is you got to be careful. Like he's, it's like a weird like veiled threat. It's very odd the way he answers the question. Yeah. Essentially saying that I'm reading it like like you got whacked. Yeah. Like that's what I'm reading. Interesting. Weird. Find that that I was sure. Well, you find that I was talking to some buddies about this. You know, just like standard bro chat. If Epstein happened today, right? And you had no knowledge of the weird stuff going on on the island. Like you would be invited. They'd be like, hey, Joe, they did invite me. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, 2017. I'm like not to specifically. Yeah. But to meet Epstein. But that's what I'm saying. And I was like, what? If that happened today, let's see. The guy came to me. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Let's do it. Ported at that time that you had a number of meetings with Jeffrey Epstein, who when you met him 10 years ago, he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors. What did you know about him when you were meeting with him as you've said yourself in the hopes of raising money? You know, I had dinners with him. I regret doing that. He had relationships with people he said, you know, would give to global health, which is an interest I have. You know, not nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction. You know, those meetings were a mistake. They didn't result in what he purported and I cut them off. You know, that goes back a long time ago now. There's, you know, so there's nothing new on that. It was reported that you continued to meet with him over several years. And that in other words, a number of meetings. What did you do when you found out about his background? Well, you know, I've said I regretted having those dinners. And there's absolutely nothing new on that. Is there a lesson for you for anyone else looking at this? Well, he's dead. So, you know, in general, you always have to be careful. And, you know, the, you know, I'm very proud of what we've done in philanthropy, very proud of the work of the foundation. Well, first of all, the records. You have billions of dollars. Right. And this guy didn't give you money for years. Right. And he didn't give you money for years. He kept meeting. Yeah. What about your money? Like, what is it? What is he going to give you? How much does he get? How much does he have? Especially compared to Bill Gates. But he also probably doesn't have a fraction of what you have. Right. So, like, if, like, Elon started hitting me up to donate money to something, I'll be like, Hey, bitch, won't you? You like, dude, you don't have much money? You have so much money. Why would you? Why do you ask? If he kept meeting with me for years, for years. It's a question. Try to get me to donate. Like, it's kind of similar. Right. This is what we're talking about. He's a billionaire. Right. Like hundreds of billions of dollars. Like, none of it makes any sense. The guy was providing a party for rich people. That's what he was doing. He was providing a way with these rich people can fucking let their hair down and have a good old time and do coke or whatever they do. That's all it was, really. Right. It was just a come at, but the party had no rules. and that's what makes it. - I'm just guessing, I'm just guessing. But I had a guy who tried to get me to meet him in 2017. - In LA or where? - Well, I was in LA when he reached out to me. Epstein appeared to have drafted himself claiming Gates had, oh yeah, he wrote it to himself. - Right, this is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted to himself claiming that Gates had contracted an STI from encounters with Russian girls and hid antibiotics from Melinda. Gates said the emails were never sent and are false. His spokesman called them absolutely absurd. So absurd that someone could get an STD from a Russian girl. Gates has separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women and with a Microsoft employee, but says none of them were connected to Epstein or his victims. - Some people say those emails were like a journal he was keeping. Like he was keeping the email himself. - They were, he wrote on an iPad all the time apparently. That's why the typos were so bad. And he just liked the email, you know, it's, you know. - Well, I mean, imagine, that's your journal. But why would you do that? Why would you make up a story about a guy having STDs? I think more likely, 'cause so there was a rumor and this is an unsubstantiated rumor when we were clear that Epstein was trying to blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that he was having in a fair with. There was some really hot Russian bridge player. - I also think they've intentionally flooded the internet with so much misinformation. - Perhaps, but my point was, if he could have drafted that email, which was never sent. - Yeah. - And then sent the draft to Bill Gates or showed it to him. - Yeah. - And say, what do you think about this? - Right. - 'Cause I could just-- - If you don't, yeah. - How about you shut the fuck up? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - When you give me some money, how about you, you know. - It's a bullplay. - There was a bunch of, well, there was a bunch of people that gave him a lot of money. - They gave him. - Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, the guy, the Victoria Secrets guy gave him a house. - He gave him a house and a lot of money. - 100% of his finances, so it wasn't just he gave it to him. - Oh, 100%. - Could have taken it or, you know. And he goes, like, I didn't know what he was doing. - Wait, so did Epstein fund that house, right? - Did he fund the Victoria Secrets guy to start Victoria Secrets? - No, no, no, no, no, no, no. - That's how he got involved after that guy's, this goes real deep. So Columbus, this guy got, he was gonna go to talk to the IRS about specifically what I don't know in 1984, but he was like the tax guy for that company. He was murdered in a mob hit style hit. - Dude, that's why I like this podcast. I'm just like an animal nerd. I like talking about snakes and I'm like, find out about Victoria Secrets and Epstein and shit as well. I mean, it's what the human animal does. - Yeah. - The human animal when it's in these very controlled spaces where just, so let's look at it this way. So imagine you're a guy who's, especially if you're a nerd and you know, you were never really good with women when you're in high school or college. - So college. - And then all of a sudden you have literally $100 billion. And you could just get prostitutes anytime you want. And I guess if you get the really high end ones they know how to shut the fuck up. - Sure. - And if you have this friend of yours who's in the massage and that guy can get the best hookers, it's got a fucking island. You go to the island, it's the best. We fly, we talk about philanthropy, we fuck. - Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, that's what I was saying before. It's like, it's just a party for a bunch of dorks who can come here with a lot of money. - But there's also some weird science connection with him. And that's what the work, it's really odd. Is that there's, he got that ranch in New Mexico so he could be close to the guys that were working at Los Alamos who were famously not making much money. So he's around these guys and he's talking about going into business with them and giving them this chance to make an insane amount of money. And this is what he did with Eric Weinstein. With Eric Weinstein, he contacted him and they had a meeting and he was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him and if Eric did it, he had the potential to make an enormous amount of money. And Eric is very wise. And he just didn't buy him from the start. He's like, this guy's a construct. He's like, everything about him. He's like, he doesn't know anything about finance. Like he was talking to him. He's not, this is not a real finance guy. - Yeah. - He's like, there's something going on. - No wheeler and dealer. - So wait, what was the science they were working on? A bunch of different physicists were connected to him. Einstein, Epstein reportedly hoped to develop super race if you went with his DNA. - Wow. (laughing) - Wow. - What is that from? - Your time. - That's your time. - I got a different one of the articles. - Oh my God. - They're gonna have to put them as a New York Times. - That is crazy. But he had a bunch of relationships with some very impressive scientists and physicists. And also oddly connected to the whole UAP world. The whole Los Alamos things weird because the thing is that he by buying that ranch in New Mexico, put him close to Los Alamos, which was in New Mexico. And then he had access to all these scientists that were famously underpaid. So these guys were not making much money. And he was this incredibly wealthy guy through no way that anybody could ever rationalize for him. It was all weird. And who knows what he was trying to get them to do. - He was probably just one of those guys. I mean, you never ended up meeting him. But he was probably just incredibly likable as a con man. Do you know what I mean? You probably sat in a room with him and you're like, wow, this guy's really great. Like maybe I should give him some money. Maybe I should, like, what a cool guy. And he's just a dirt bag under the veil. - We're just speculating, but maybe. And maybe also if you have a bunch of really hot Russian chicks that are hanging out with you, you don't need to be that charming. - That's so true. - He was a billionaire with a bunch of hot Russian chicks. And then there's a bunch of people that are willing to hang out with billionaires, just 'cause I've seen it where people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely wealthy and they wanna go to the party at their house. Like whoo. - But all those people do is work like crazy. - They're not fun. - I don't know. - I don't know that many. - Well, he was. That's true. That guy partied hard. - Good point. - Good point. - To be a billionaire too. I mean, in most cases, what you have to do is be insanely driven. - Yeah, and you have to be that guy that works 18, 20 hours a day. - Right. - And give up all the other things. - Yeah, you have to give up all your time. - Exactly. - And that becomes your whole life. - Yeah. - But I think that's also why they wanted a guy like that that could provide them. This is what Eric Weinstein described it. He said, he provided them with experiences, I believe. - Yeah. - That was his, and I think he's right. I think that makes sense. - So I mean, my one and only billionaire friend is that an autumn Bonnie that Indian guy was mentioning. I think it's so cool he's built this gigantic wildlife rescue. That is pretty dope. - That's a great thing to do with money. - He's just like, he's a nerd like me. And if he hears this, he's gonna be like, thanks a lot. But like, he's just an animal nerd. He's gonna be like, he just loves animals in conservation. And he's like, I have generational wealth that might, you know, it came from his family. His family's like, fifth or sixth generation of having huge industry. And he's like, okay, so with my excess money, I'm gonna rescue animals instead of do other, you know, - That's very cool. - It's very cool. - I mean, for me, it's amazing. - Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with space race stuff too. It's all fascinating. - No. - But it's just, it's, and I get it from a perspective of people who think there's not enough money in the world. And then why do these people have so much money? And they should give all their money away. And it's like, okay, but you could do that all the way down to like $100,000 a year if you really wanted to do it. Especially when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world. - That's right. - That's right, you know. - We're in the, just living in this country alone, we're in the 1% most people. I think 1% of the world, we look this up. It's like $50,000, $60,000. If you make more than that, you're in the 1% of earth. - Right. - And that's the majority of people in the United States. - Yeah, it's crazy. - So like, yeah. - Yeah, you're barely getting by in America and you're in the 1% of the world. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Which is wild. - It's wild. - It's really wild. - Yeah, we're the weirdest animal. You should study us. - I should. - Well, I learned a lot today. I'll tell you what. - Yeah, but we're not fun. Like you, you study us and you go, oh God. What are they fucking doing? - Whereas you study animals. You're like, oh, fucking cool. - They're way cooler. They're way more interesting. More teeth, more claws, more slithering. - Well, it's also just the fact that there's so much variety and that they are real and that they are, then some of them are so strange. How about that new monkey that they just found in the Congo? - With the lipstick. Crazy looking. - The monkey. - His orange mouth. - Yeah, it looks like he just ate it. - So cool. - Like one of them freeze pops. - Yeah, exactly. Like your kid after, yeah. 100 dude, it's so cool. And new primate species coming out still. - I know. - I love that. I think it's so great. - Do you believe in the Bondo ape? Do you think that thing is? - Yes and no. Like there's probably likely a group of chimpanzees. That just are more aggressive that are a social construct. - And are larger. - And are larger. But it doesn't mean that it's like this, you know, because they have the whole thing about them being lion killing apes and all this other stuff. There's probably a family troop, a group. And you know, they're in war now. Have you read about this? - Yeah. - Yeah. - So I think that the Bondo ape is real in the sense of there is probably an isolated larger group of chimps that just act like chimps. - The thing about this chimp those, they said that their skulls are different. - Yeah, the cranial ridge. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Things with stronger jaw muscles have a cranial ridge. You see it in hyenas, you see it in things like that. - Gorillas. - Yeah, gorillas. Yeah, exactly. It's just more surface error for the muscle to attach to, basically. It's just like that would be so fascinating to find those things. And that's with, you know, that Carl Armongai spent his whole life hunting, reading rumors. But at least he got some photos, unlike that poor fucker that was looking for the sloth. - Yeah. - Still trying, yeah. - Like he got some camera trap photos of them. - Yeah. - No, and they were bipedal in the photos, right? - Yeah, some of them. - Which chimps are, you know, they'll walk on. - Behind legs and stuff, it's pretty cool. - It is pretty cool. And then there's a photo of the one that they killed that was at the airport. Do you ever see that one? - I don't think so. - Oh, it's crazy. - At the airport. - Yeah, there's a small airport and they killed this one enormous chimpanzee. So there's just two guys that are standing with it. It's hard to tell how big the guys are, but if they're normal size human beings, that's the biggest fucking chimpanzee I've ever seen in my life. - Yeah, that's you. - Look at that thing. They're amazing. - Look at that. You guys, you could tell by perspective that the guy's, he's got his hand on it. So he's right behind it. - Yeah, yeah, it's not a force perspective. His arm is not extended, so it's not fake. And that chimpanzee looks way bigger than him. - Way bigger. - Yeah, it's amazing. So they think that is one of them. - Yeah. - Yeah, like I said, I think it's real in the sense, oh yeah, this famous photo. - See, but that one just to me looks like a chimpanzee. That just looks like a big chimp. - Yeah. - Where the one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys. - That's the size of his head is fucking enormous. - Do you know that there's one river where I'm trying to remember exactly how this works? But basically, there's one area where the rivers collide, where the chimps and the gorillas go into conflict with each other over this one river spot. - Do you know what I'm talking about? Have you ever heard about this? - Yeah, it's really interesting. So somewhere in the Congo, there's this particular river. And I think it's called the Cross River. Car remember now. And it's an area that the chimps will come on one side and the gorillas will come down on the other. And they will have, they'll like throw stuff at each other across the river. And like it's like a whole thing that it's been documented. And these guys will, there's sort of these like two clans of great apes that come and communicate across the river and throw rocks and like show off to each other and then they kind of go back into the jungle. But it's been seen in this one particular river several times. - Wow. - Yeah, it's like the real planet of the age. What is a chimp wars, are they fighting over food, territory? - Unless I'm mistaken, it's relatively unknown. But it's sort of a social construct. So if you think of humans, for example, once our population gets too large and we have too many men and not enough women, we fight, right? We've seen that throughout history. Roman times, Mongolian times, you name it. So there is one troop of chimps that all live together in relative harmony and then two leaders basically sprung up. And there was a lack of enough females. And so all of a sudden this clan divided into two clans and now they're at constant war with each other. Like they live in the same relative territory, but they'll come in to contact with each other and go to war over who's gonna be the leader of the alpha troop, the mega troop. And it's been going for maybe a year or two years now. - Fuck. - Yeah. But how human is that? - So human. - Like to be like, okay, we're all part of this group. Like you and I don't like each other now. Like this is my side, that's your side. We're gonna fuck each other up. - Study highlights friends with benefits relationship between guerrillas and chimps. What, they're fucking each other? - No, it's a lot. - What? - The younger one's hanging out. It's probably in the same area. They're meeting pictures of them like in the same tree. - Yeah, yeah. I think this is that river that won't figs out of these trees. - Yeah, but friends with benefits generally. - Generally. - Yeah, I was looking forwarding that. Got to what you're getting at. - But you don't really say that with like, why do you go to dinner with Bob? Well, we're friends with benefits. - No, you're fucking Bob? When did you start fucking Bob, man? - No, no, we just like figs. - Both of us. - Yeah. - The chimpanzees though, they caught them beating their chest, which is only something guerrillas of everything. - Yeah. - Yeah. - They're imitating. - Mimicking each other. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Oh, yeah. - I'm sure you've seen that one documentary, I think it's called Relentless Enemies, where there's a particular pride of lions that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffaloes. They got trapped on an island because the river changed paths. - Yeah, yeah. I remember what you're talking about. I don't know the documentary, but yeah, they're eating cape buffalo exclusively. And the lions are just getting bigger and beefier. And they're all fat and like, yeah, it's pretty cool. - Well, they have to get bigger. The females are doing all the killing. And so they're as big as male lions in other places. - Yeah, and they're jacked. - And they don't have a choice. - Yeah, because otherwise they're gonna die while trying to hunt the cape buffalo. - Right, but it's so we're watching natural selection in real time because they just keep getting bigger and stronger. - Yeah. - And these fucking buffalo are enormous, man. They're jumping on these things and hanging on them and trying to drag them down to the ground. - The black death. - That's what they call the cape buffalo, yeah. - Those motherfuckers are so scary. - So mean, so scary, yeah. And they'll charge so unprovoked. Like they'll just turn and come anytime. But it's crazy how you have that basically insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals, no matter like animals stuck on an island. They're either gonna get bigger. They're gonna get small. - Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right? - We're tortoises, right? Like the Galapagos or the Seychelles, yeah. - Why? - Why do they get bigger? - No predators, unlimited resources. - Yeah. So all of a sudden, you know, you're a little tortoise that's this big and every time you get to this big, something spots you from the air and eats you or whatever it happens to be. But now you're stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit you could ever eat and nobody wants to eat you. So you just get bigger and bigger to out-compete. - Look at each other. - Look at that face. - Ooh. - Yeah, look at those guys. - I mean, just imagine that's the only thing you can eat is something that's three times bigger than you and you can fucking kill you. - That kills a lot of lions by the way. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - Well, you kick in the face when you're trying to take them out and then that's it. Your jaw's broken and you'll never eat again. - Yep. - And you starve to death slowly. - I love the little cub there covered in blood. Look at that. - It's a really cool documentary. - Yeah. - It seems so weird when you're looking at the size of the females. They just look exaggerated to the point where they look fake. They look like Hulk lions. - That's awesome. - It's very cool. - Very, very cool. - Nature is such a wild thing, man. I mean, it's such an amazing, fascinating, endless resource of just cool shit to see. - And our understanding of it changes all the time. Every animal theory we've ever had evolves and changes as we learn more, which is what makes it so fun, 'cause it's so dynamic. It's not a static thing. - Well, it's just crazy that we keep finding new things, like the new primate. - Well, find that little new monkey that they found. - With the orange lips. - He's really cool. - He's in the Congo. - Well, in the Congo is another place. It's like, what? - Yeah. I've seen, sure you've seen that BBC documentary in the Congo from, it's like the early 2000s. But look at him. What a weird looking guy. - So cool. So strange. - There's a few lost primates out there too, like species that we've seen once or twice that have never been seen since. - Like what? - Miss Waldron's Red Colibus is one that comes to mind. - So it's called Miss Waldron's Red Colibus? - I think it's called that. - I think it's just Waldron's Red Colibus, but it's a Colibus monkey that there's like three or four museum specimens and no live specimens. Yeah. - Really? - There's a few of those. Yeah. - Oh. - Miss Waldron's, yeah, Red Colibus. - Why is it called Miss Waldron? - I don't know. Who's that lady? - Good question. (laughing) - What do you have to do with this monkey lady? - You have to West Africa. Previously described as subspecies, not been cited since. Oh, I saw it for a second. - And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially-- - I'd like to see it. - Primates and essentially anything that lives in the Congo is in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit. - Yeah. - That is not a lot of research being done. - Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, oh, find these animals, find that animals. Nobody's looking. It's too hard. The local people know they're there. Like, these lost species are species that the people that hunt and eat them know they're there, but they have no communication to the outside of the scientific world. And, you know, for you or I to go into that part of the Congo is probably a death sentence. - Geez. - Yeah. (laughing) - Yeah. - But there's a lot of cool stuff out there. - Are there any other animals that might be real that people think they've seen as far as, like, cryptids that could still be real? - Weird ones. - Oh, man. - Is there a giant sloth or something like that? - I mean, there's that hole like the dinosaur and the Congo thing that people always talk about. - It's silly. - It's not real. - That one's silly. - I mean, I kind of think of any. I think, you know, like-- - David Cho went looking for that once. - Yeah, yeah. Actually, that's one of your pods that I watched the whole thing. He was talking about that. - David's crazy. - Yeah. I kind of think of any. But, you know, it's those rumors. Like, there's a sloth. We've seen it. There's an Asian unicorn. We've seen it. That if people don't follow, you never know. - Right. - You can absolutely be the tinfoil hack guy like I can be with the thylacene. But if you give up and don't look, you know, we never really know. - And if it's gonna be, - It would probably be in a place like the Amazon or like the Congo, so enormous. But, like the, isn't the Congo as wide as the contiguous North America? - The country or the river? - I think the country. - The country of the Congo. The Congo, the jungle, the Congo. I think it's almost as big as America. - Yeah. - I did not know it was that large. Africa's fucking huge. - It's huge. - I think, 'cause the United States imposed on Africa, you're like, oh my god. - I know. - The consequences of Africa's enormous. - Well, that's what's squirrely about maps, right? - Yeah. - Especially like when you look at the globe, like everything's so distorted. - Yeah. - Which I don't understand why they do that. - No. - I've never had that explained to me in a way that like, oh, I get it. - Or timelines. Have you ever looked at how like timelines are drawn on the globe? Like, you know, like the time zones? - Right, right. So weird. - Like, jigsaw puzzles. - Wiggly jigsaw puzzles. And you're like, why is that island in this time zone that's three slots over? Like, it makes no sense to it. - Doesn't make any sense. - Yeah. - But like, see if you can find the size of the Congo. Like, if you see the size of the Congo versus, I think it's almost as big as the United States. - In terms of the way I didn't realize that. - Yeah. - It's the same, yeah. There's so many of these incredible remote areas. - I think it's thousands of miles wide. Okay, so if you took that and you shoved it, why doesn't, why doesn't it put it over it? Right, the bottom one there is a better one. Bottom one, that one's better. So not quite. - Yeah, but it's still enormous. - Yeah, it's like 35%. - Yeah. - And there's more political unrest there now, which means stuff shuts down. - I mean, that's crazy. That's an enormous piece of, look how big that is. You get all of India, all of Eastern Europe, the United States, China, fucking crazy for France, Spain. Look at that. - It's a big place. And the cradle of civilization. - Yep. - The cradle of humanity. - And then also Egypt. That's also part of Africa. - You know about the eclipse coming up there? - What? - Biggest one in history, 2027. - Yeah. - So in 2027, I wanna say April, there'll be a six minute total blackout in Egypt. It'll be the longest one in 100 and something or maybe 80 something years over the Red Sea in Egypt. - Oh, that's when you wanna go see the pyramids. - Can you imagine? - That's when the aliens are gonna return. - That's what I'm saying, dude. Can you imagine being at the pyramids and seeing a six minute long, six minute, 22 second. - That's what it's gonna look like. - And it's in a place that never has fucking clouds. So you're gonna see it. I mean, they do, but not that time of year. So, yeah, total solar eclipse for six and a half minutes. - So we had one here. - Yeah, yeah. - Two years ago. - Yeah. - Two years ago, Jay? - Yeah. - It was cool. How long did that last you? I wasn't in the country. - Not that long. - Yeah. - A couple of minutes. But what was really cool about it though was that all the animals got oddly silent before it happened. - Yeah. - It was really weird. - Like they know something's going on. - Yeah, so we were outside waiting for it. And as the eclipse starts taking place, everything went quiet. - Yeah. - It was really wild. - So crazy. - And then while it's happening, like, whoa. And you imagine, like, imagine living like thousands of years ago before, anybody understood what the fuck was going on. - And thinking like some wild magical moment had happened and then we entered into a new timeline or something. - Oh, yeah. - You'd have all crazy theories. - I'd be like, grab somebody. We gotta sacrifice them right away. Something's going on right here. Get 'em to the pyramid, cut their heart out. - Yeah, straight away. - It's also, it's like so weird that the sun and the moon are the exact right distance that when they cross the moon just completely outlines where the, I mean, just fills in everything. - Yeah. - But the light around the outside of the edges. - It's bizarre. - Like how is it perfectly sized like that? - Have you seen, oh, sorry, go ahead. - No, it's just, it's an incredible coincidence that it's the right distance and the right size. 'Cause obviously the moon is so much smaller than the sun. But perfectly, distance. - The scale. - So that when the sun and the moon is there, it's like, boom, it's like the right size. Not like half of it. - Yeah. - You know, it's perfect. - Yeah, perfect. - It just sits right in there. - Yeah, it's like an Oreo in the cream. It's amazing. - The really screw ball theories are that the moon is fake. - I've even never heard that one. - Yeah, the panda, the panda fake has nothing on the moon being fake. - The moon is fake. - Yeah, yeah, they think that the moon is artificial and then it was like put here by aliens and it's hollow. - You're kidding. - Oh no, no, no. - That's a good one. - It's good here in order to sustain life on Earth to give us a stable orbit. - I mean, it does do that. - It does do that. - Yeah, 'cause imagine like how fragile life is. Like we're really concerned about climate change. Like sure. - Oh my God, the climate changes. Well guess what, if the fucking moon wasn't there, you'd be doomed. - Oh, there's nothing. - There's no way. - Yeah. - You need a big moon too. - Controlls all of our oceans and-- - It's a quarter of the size of the Earth. It's a weird moon. - Yeah. - I think there's another moon on in our entire solar system that's comparable to the size and the relationship to the other planet. - To the planet itself. - I think it's way bigger than every other moon on, let's find that out. - Is that what pretty-- - Formulates the conspiracy theory that it was brought in. - Oh yeah, interesting. - There's also, we did something, some sort of experiment, we shot something at the moon and it rang like a bell for like a long time. - That's why. - It echoed like way longer than we thought. - Of course, could just be, they didn't know what it would do 'cause they've never done it before. - Right. - They don't know like fifth largest moon in the solar system with a diameter of the width of the container in the states while it's dwarfed by Jupiter and Saturn's largest moons. It's uniquely massive compared to its parent planet. Yeah, that's what it is. Making the Earth moon system more like a double planet. Yeah, so in relationship to the planet like it's, so Jupiter and Saturn have huge moons, but Jupiter obviously is fucking way bigger than us. - Yeah, yeah. - Well, you can look at the size of Jupiter and comparison to the size of Earth. - Yeah, so it's the scale of the moon to this two-year Earth, yeah, interesting. That is a wild conspiracy theory. Imagine just being the guy who's like, you know what, why don't we shoot at the moon? Just give that a whirl, see what happens. - Yeah, they did something. I think, I don't know what they shot it with. I think they sent a rocket to the moon and just to measure the sound. Like, see what would happen. And it was odd, they found it was odd the way it rang. It rang like a bell. But you know, it's like, they've never done that before. Like, and also, who knows what the fucking center of the moon's made out of, who knows where you hit it? - Yeah, totally. - Maybe it's weird. - You've got some caves in there, it's hollow. Apollo experiments in the ringing effect. The phrase moon rang like a bell comes from Apollo 12. In 1969, November, NASA deliberately crashed the lunar module's ascent stage onto the moon. Size, seismometers recorded a long lasting vibrations for nearly an hour. This description is a metaphor for how dry, cold lunar rock reverberates without water to dampen the shockwave. - Oh, interesting. - Yeah, but retards and dorks. - So it's hollow, it's made by aliens. And there's also people that think that, you know, there's stuff there that, like, there's a model there. - Oh, the city's on the moon and all that. - Yeah, I'm gonna decide that we can't see. - Yeah, man. - And bases. - Reddit's a wild place, huh? - Sorry, this is really, like, this is not even Reddit. This is like, you gotta go to like weird message boards. Crazy people go. - It's deep crazy. - Yeah, people that are called on Wiki. - What's that? - The hollow moon. There you go. - The hollow moon, crostly related to spaceship moon. Ah, that's the one. Our pseudo-scientific hypothesis that proposed Earth's moon is either a holy hollow or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. No scientific evidence exists to support the idea. Let's go to go to spaceship moon 'cause that seems even more interesting. - I have a link for it, but. - Yeah, spaceship moon. Come on, baby. You see, all these pseudo-scientific, the moon's spaceship includes historical, oh, no, no. - It has not, I didn't know what just, what that means. - Spaceship moon theory. - Okay, I have a call. - Try that theory. Do, do, do, do. A pseudo-scientific hypothesis proposing that Earth's moon is an artificial hollowed out, satellite constructed by an alien civilization. - Oh boy. - See? It's like the Death Star. - There you go, bro. - Well, you need to get into like spaces fake. That's even better. - Spaces fake. - Is popularized in 1970 by two Soviet scientists. - Mikhail Vasin and Alexander. - How about that word? - Yep. - Shurkaba. - Shurkaba. - Akov. - Shurkaba Kov. Who suggested the moon was reinforced by an armored titanium hull to survive impacts. - Oh man, people need more to do. - No, they don't. - You like this? - I love the cookie or the better. - Yeah. - Like #spacesfake is one of my favorite things to look up. 'Cause there's a whole community of people out there that thinks space is fake. But I also think that a lot of these people, what you're getting is, there's been some, there's been some people who develop fake theories in order to see if people bite. And then, and then they put them out there, like on Reddit or somewhere on 4chan, 4chan's a great place and stuff like that. 'Cause you got a lot of skits and fronics that like to visit those places. And then they'll put it out there and see if people run with it. And then they'll do it to see if just for fun. - And he gives you a community, right? It's like, oh yeah, I have this group of flat-earthers that I hang out with on Saturdays and we talk about how the earth's not round, you know what I mean? It's like, I've, I've, I've made my own lunatic community. - Bigfoot Hunters. - Yeah. - Same thing. - There you go. - Unfuckable white guys, look at for cryptids. - Something to do. - Are there any other cryptids that are even remotely interesting? - To me, not really. I mean, I always enjoy the fun of it, like when we chat about it, but as far as like the reality of it, I don't think so. You know, I know it's a boring answer, but I think that. - Well, you would know. I mean, that's why I'm asking you. I mean, your guy actually goes to these places. I mean, he goes looking for stuff. - I love when you hear about something like a borrowing snake. And everybody's like, that's not real, it doesn't exist. And then turns out, somebody finds this weird snake. And it's not really a cryptid, but it's something that nobody's been looking for 'cause why would you, right? Nobody's digging in the earth in the center of the Congo to find a mud snake, you know, or whatever it happens to be. And I think those are the things that they end up being cryptid in small communities, you know, like you hear from the village about the snake, I'm making the snake up, but about the snake that lives under the mud and only bites when people dig their crops or whatever it happens to be. And it creates this generational legend that becomes a cryptid, but the truth is, there is a snake that lives under the crops in the mud. It's just nobody ever goes looking for it, because why would you? - Well, there is a weird arrogance that we have in 2020. 2026 because we have uncovered so much in comparison to people that live two or three hundred years ago. Oh, for sure. That we have this maybe arrogant assumption that we have an accurate audit of all the animals on the planet. And it's such a human thing to do is to be like, we've quantified it all, we have the answers. Yeah. You know, it's like we put a finite on something and then you have all these guys, like especially in the scientific community, which is, that's a whole story for itself. But they're now like, okay, I need funding, so I'm going to speciate a bunch of stuff. So I'm going to go look at the four things that are exactly the same except one lives on one side of the creek and one lives on the other. And now I'm going to make it its own species because that'll fund more work for me. So now you have the speciation race. Yeah. There's no gatekeeping on that where someone goes, hey. I mean, there are certain criteria that you have to meet, but they're pretty easy to meet. You have to say it looks different, it has some kind of genetic anomaly, it has some kind of physical anomaly. There's a population of it. Okay, now now I've named my own species and that makes noise and I can publish a paper and now my research is funded. And it's just like, it's not, you know, is it a species? Did we need this one frog to be split into four different groups because they live on, you know, four different patches of the mountain? Not really, you know, and it sort of lessens the conservation for that frog in general because now all of a sudden it's like, well, there's four different kinds of them. So who cares if one of them gets extinct? So it's sort of like, it's a weird thing that's going on in the sciences where there's this race to do speciation and pull apart everything into more and more and more. And then it sort of lessens the value of them, in my opinion. Hmm, that's interesting. So there's this reward thing that happens that encourages people to do these things. Dude, I'm writing a whole book on this right now. It's coming out next year because it's just the scientific system in wildlife and conservation is so broken. Because it's very, first of all, first of all, if you're an animal guy, you're probably not a great people person to begin with, right? Myself included. You're not a bad people person. Thanks, but for the most part, the people that get into the sciences probably don't have the best, yeah, they're awkward. They don't have the best human social skills, right? So then those people become professors and heads of parties and academics and all these things. And again, I'm generalizing. They're great people that I work with too, but just a picture of the system. So now you have all these socially awkward, somewhat introverted people studying animals. Now there's this tiny little resource pool of money and everybody that's socially awkward that's already somewhat arrogant because they've made it to the top of their field or close to the top of their field is competing for this tiny little pool of money. So now they're putting out anything that's headline worthy and a headline worthy could be as simple as speculating a frog on a mountain or it could be discovering something, but basically you have to just publish something to show that you are accomplishing something to then pull from that tiny little pool of money. So now a system like say you and Jamie here should all be working towards saving this guy right here, this metal, metal chimpanzee. Well, we're not. We're all fighting because there's this tiny little pool of money that we all want and we're all saying that each other are wrong because we need to prove that we're right so that we're funded because you two because all three of us can't be funded to save that species. Does that make sense? So now we're all fighting each other to save the thing that we all care about because the resource pool is so small. What's the solution to that? Well, it needs to become more mainstream and I think there's a lot of bullshit science, you know, to be honest with you like there's a lot of this speciation and publishing and all this stuff that's just sort of making noise that isn't really helping. And I think the solution is well, once it becomes more mainstream, here's the short answer conservation is incredibly easy to measure. We try and make it very difficult and complicated. Are there animals now? After your work, are there more? Have you fixed the problem? That's all conservation is, right? Are there are there more or less than when you started? If when you started there or less and now there are more and this is very black and white and every system is different, but if you had a thousand frogs and then you worked on the project now you have 2000 frogs, you're doing conservation right as long as the ecosystem supports as long as the prey is there blah blah blah blah. That's all conservation is we try and make it so complicated and so in depth and require all these papers and this publishing and this information that is sort of an information overload that the common person doesn't care about it. I mean, when's the last time you read a paper on frogs, probably never, right? I mean either because they're boring because I don't want care about it, but I would care if you just came out and said, look, these frogs need a home. We're going to fight Kichred fungus, which is this big widespread fungus that's killing all amphibians by building frog hotels and if we build, which are these little brick hotel things that frogs go into incubate to kill fungus. And if we build enough frog hotels, then there's going to be more frogs. That's good conservation. So instead of fighting over that, make that popular in mainstream, don't make it so complicated so that nobody understands. I'm not saying don't publish papers and things. Those still very much so have their place and they're important, but focus on the messaging to the common person. So the common person now cares, then there becomes more funding and resources. Then we don't all have to fight over this tiny little pool of resources to publish things that aren't actually accomplishing things. Well, this is actually the value of getting into a crocodile cage. That's right because you get people actually interested in animals. And that's why I do YouTube. That's why I do all these things is that I hope that it helps people care. I don't need to get funded by it. Like it's great when my YouTube does well and I make money, but like I just want people to care about these things because if you care about them, then that resource pool widens. Yeah. Well, it's, you got to make things interesting to people, right? And this is where like David Attenborough was so amazing because he developed these documentaries. And so and the voice that he had explaining these things mind blowing, he was the first guy to document chimpanzees eating monkeys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that incredible. That was incredible. All his stuff. He's the goat literally. But you kind of, that's another thing about being a wildlife biologist. You kind of have to get your hands dirty. You have to get in there. And the other part of the system that's so broken is a lot of these world leading experts have never touched seen anything with the living one of these animals. I worked with a person, and I don't want to say her name because she's a lovely person who is a world leading expert on a certain type of shark. And we're like, great, you're the world's leading authority. You're perfect to come with us on this trip to study these sharks. We fly to the opposite side of the planet. I don't want to give too many details. It's not fair to her. She's a very nice person. She's published 50 papers on this species of shark. And we get there. And I'm like, all right, day one, let's gear up. Let's hop in the water and look for this thing. She's like, I don't know how to swim. Like, what do you mean? She's like, I've never been in the ocean before. Like, you're the world's leading authority on this type of shark. And she's like, yeah, I don't, I don't dive. I don't snorkel. I don't know how to swim. I'm like, well, how are you the world's leading authority on the shark? She's like, well, I've never seen one alive. I've dissected him. I've published all these papers. I can tell you about the tooth count. But I've actually never seen one alive. Like, you're the world's leading authority. And you've never seen one of these animals alive to study it. The guy who fishes and eats it in the village next door is a more of an authority than this person. Right. But that's the scientific process. The world's leading authority because they've published the most papers on something that sits in a pickle jar. Do you think that that is an absolute requirement, though? Like, do you have to have some sort of physical contact with the world that they live in? I think you have to have observational knowledge. You don't have to have physical contact. Like, you shouldn't have physical contact with wild chimpanzees. They'll rip your arms. But I mean, the world they live in, I mean, I do. I think it should be a requirement. I think if you're going to be considered an authority on that thing, you have to have observational data as well as scientific data. You can't just live in a world where you're like, I've studied them in pickle jars and I can tell you everything about them. Well, to me, that was like one of the most fascinating aspects of chimp nation. You know, that these scientists had been embedded with these particular chimpanzees for more than 20 years. That's science. That is science. That means you're sitting there. And that's why the best scientists are the guys that hunt and fish and spend their life surrounded by these animals that will never once be credited as a scientist because all they do is study the behavior of the animal. And I'm with you. Like, that is, that's the real deal. 20 years watching a troop of chimps, learning their behavior, understanding their social dynamic. I'm not saying you shouldn't also cut one open and measure its canines. You should when you get a dead one, but that doesn't make you an authority on it. Right. In my opinion. Well, that was the thing about that particular documentary and those particular scientists was so unusual that they had this long history where these chimpanzees had lived and died and raised new chimps around these people. And as long as they followed this protocol, stay within, you know, 20 yards, at least 20 yards away from them, never have food around them. Don't look them in the eyes. You're good. Yep. And you got insane footage because of that. Yeah, because there's a mutual respect. Right. Like, they've learned to appreciate each other. And you can't do that with every animal. Like, it doesn't matter how many years you spend sitting watching a crocodile will still eat you at the first chance. Right. But you've earned a mutual respect with a highly intelligent creature. That to me, as a field biologist, is science. That's incredible. Well, if not a respect, at the very least, you've become a part of their world to the point where they don't think of you as being an anomaly. That's right. So that's right. Normal. Yep. Where they're, they're not, they're not weirded out. Like, if you just show up out of nowhere and you're wearing a spacesuit, yeah, the monkey's going to go, hey, exactly for exactly this new thing. But if there's always people with spacesuits around, they need. never bother them. They go, oh, it's just the spacesuit guy. - Yeah. - Normal. - It's gonna go eat my bananas like normal. - It's the same as seeing an Impala in a wildebeest hang out together at a watering hole. They're used to each other. They know they're not threats to each other. But you or I walk up in both of their ears perk up and they sprint in different directions. - Yeah, that's true. - You can have that time put in to make things calm. It's amazing. - But I mean, has there ever been anything other than chimp nation where they did that that effectively? - I mean, the grizzly man sure tried. - That didn't work out so well. - Didn't end well. (laughing) - Or did it. - Yeah. - It probably ended the way he wanted it to. Honestly, I think. - There's no way he could have wanted to go out any other way. - I think that was suicide by bearer. - Yeah. - I also think it was Werner Herzog's attempt at comedy. - You think? - Yeah, there's something about the way he edited it where I'm like, this guy's fucking with us. 'Cause there's one time where he talking about the sheriff and they ask the sheriff like, what do you thought of him? And the sheriff goes, well, I thought he was retarded and they smash cut to something else. I'm like, you're trying to make me laugh, Werner. - It's pretty funny, I've wanted to try to get him on the podcast and that's gonna be one of, he probably never answered honestly. 'Cause it would probably be disrespectful to Timothy Treadwell and just. - You got to get him out. - I would love to get him on just because he's amazing. - Yeah. - And also his documentary, Happy People, Life in the Tiger. It's one of my favorite documentaries of all time. - Oh really? I don't know. It's good. - It's all about these people that live in Siberia. And they have like no mental illness and all they do is they live a assistance lifestyle. They're just hunting and fishing and trapping and they ride around on snowmobiles and they make these huts and they live up there with their dogs and they have these extended periods of time where they're alone. - Yeah. - And all they're doing is like taking their snowmobiles to different traps and gathering wood for fire and fish to eat. And they're all happy and they're drinking and laughing and they're like, it's weird. Because he documented and it's called Happy People. That's what the documentary is called. And it's like with his like, the way he describes these people living in Siberia. - That's a Siberia. - Fucking amazing. - Oh that's cool. - It's really amazing. It's amazing documentary. I think he's incredible. - I have said forever, you don't all, look, mental illness is a real thing. I'm not gonna pretend it's not. But if you spend a lot of time outside and in nature and especially by yourself, the noise goes away. I don't care who you are. I don't care what your history is, drug history, anything. When you're much more present when you're alone in nature and mental illness, I have no experience in this. This is just opinion. But mental illness comes from when you're wrapped up in your own being, right? When you're thinking about all the problems and this, that and the other thing. But when you're alone in nature, you have to think about your surroundings and what you're doing. And you don't have time to sit and manifest on these things that create depression and anxiety and all of those types of things. - There's also no comparison. You're not comparing yourself to anyone else 'cause you're living in a community that are a assistants lifestyle people. All these people are doing the same thing you're doing. What are you gonna do? You're gonna have the biggest fish? Nobody cares about that. - Nobody cares. - It's all hunting, fishing, living off the land. They all do it. And they're all sharing and drinking together and having fun. - Right. - It's really wild and you watch it. You go, "Well, I got boiled down to like the most simplistic community driven ways that people exist like this." Like, seems to be the best way for people to live. - But like you said earlier, you have to have both sides, right, of the coin. It's like the red and blue in Texas because you have to have innovators and overthinkers and workers, or it wouldn't be a society. - Or by the way, they wouldn't exist because they use snowmobiles and not one of those motherfuckers is gonna invent a snowmobile. - Exactly. - So you gotta have the red and the blue. You gotta have both sides. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, absolutely. - That's awesome. - Well, hey, brother, it's always good to talk to you. - It's really fun. - It's really fun. - Really fun. - What is this you in the crocodile? - I'll tell you what it is. - Oh my god, dude, you didn't tell me that he put meat all around the outside of it. - Told you he has an idiot. Look at this. We made that cage, by the way, and I am no engineer. - Oh my god. - Look at the kids. - The kids look so flimsy. (laughing) - That thing looks so flimsy. - And you're just hanged by a thread? - Literally, this cable that we sourced from a village and hoped it would hold up. I mean, we tested it as far as put some rocks in it and tested it in empty cage. - This is a terrible idea. - It was dumb. It was dumb. - Look at these things doing death rolls. - But people are gonna watch this, Joe, and they're gonna learn about crocodiles. - That's a great thing you filmed it. - Right? - God, man. That's insane. - That was fun. That cage looks way too flimsy. Don't do that again. - I'm not doing it again, I promise. - Tell people how they can see that. Where they can find all your stuff. - Dude, it's Shark Week. We got an awesome show coming out this week. Alien Sharks Untamed America. Looking at some incredible sharks. Celebrating America's birthday. Our craziest weirdest sharks. - How long has Shark Weeks been going on since the 80s? - 39 years old, same age as me. (laughing) It's been around my whole life. - That is so crazy. - Yeah, it's an institution. - Whoa. - Plus we got the YouTube channel. That's where I'm doing most of my stuff now. I hope people check that out. I know you watched some videos. - Yes. - I've heard you comment. I appreciate that. - Oh, I appreciate you. - Yeah. - I appreciate you doing that stuff. - Thanks for having me, dude. - My pleasure. - Always great to see you. - Yeah, all right. - Bye everybody. (upbeat music)