David, a former law enforcement officer and author, investigates unexplained disappearances in national parks and remote areas, starting after a ranger revealed alarming gaps in official follow-up. He found that many cases—especially those involving lone individuals in remote wilderness—lack investigation despite initial public attention. Agencies routinely deny access to records, citing FOIA exemptions, even when cases span decades. David highlights a pattern: disappearances often occur when people are alone, and professional tracking fails, which he sees as suspicious. Notable cases include a Canadian firefighter who reappears with no memory of how he got to California, and a German hunter who claims to have been abducted and taken aboard a craft, during which time and space seemed to freeze. He also examines alleged bigfoot hair samples, with DNA results showing maternal lineage from the Middle East but no matching paternal DNA—results not replicated by independent labs. These findings suggest either advanced phenomena or systemic cover-up. While David presents these as potential signs of extraterrestrial or interdimensional activity, he emphasizes that no mainstream science confirms such theories. His work centers on the idea that official agencies may be suppressing or failing to investigate these cases due to embarrassment, lack of resources, or deeper, unacknowledged patterns—leaving many missing persons cases unresolved and unexplained.
[MUSIC] >> David, welcome to the show, pull on up to the microphone to get it to get that sucker up like a fist from your face. I first heard about you from that guy, Art Bell, the goat. The greatest. >> Yeah. >> I used to love listening to his show coming home from the comedy store. We'd come home at like one o'clock in the morning, coast to coast with Art Bell from the kingdom of Nye. It was awesome. And that's when I first got turned on to your work. So tell everybody, you started off in law enforcement, right? That's your background. >> Correct. >> How did you get involved in this mystery of people going missing? >> So I had already written a couple of books and I was at Yosemite National Park doing some research on another topic. And two rangers are following me around and I went back to my room that was at the park and about an hour and a half later one of the rangers comes to my room and he's in playing clothes and he knocks on my door and he says, hey, Dave, I'm ranger so and so, I'm here off duty. And I want to talk to you about some missing people. I said, come on. So we start talking and he says that he knew about me, probably the way he knew about me. And he says, I know you're from law enforcement, somebody needs to look into this. About an hour and a half later, his partner shows up at the door. And they said that they've worked at different parks over the years. And while they were working at those parks, they were missing people. And he said, at the beginning, there was a lot of publicity, a lot of people interested, a lot of activity. And then with time, within about 10, 15 days, all of that would end. And he said, we got concerned and we did a Freedom of Information Act against our own agency to get the reports and we couldn't get the reports. And then we did a Freedom of Information Act request on other cases and we couldn't get the reports. And we got concerned because after that initial 10, 14 day period of searching is all over, there's nothing else that happens. That's it. And he said, somebody ought to look into this because there's a lot of people missing and the park service doesn't talk about it. Now what was he assuming? Was he assuming something nefarious was going on or was he assuming that it was a lack of commitment to finding the bodies? Because you've got to assume most people after 14 days lost in the woods are probably going to die. I think all the above. He thought that there were too many people going missing. There wasn't enough follow-up being done and nobody seemed to care. So if you were being pragmatic and you weren't like diving into mysteries and the stuff that I like, the fun stuff, you would say, well, they don't have any resources. There's not enough people to go looking when you think about the actual square miles that you would have to cover to find a body. And then also the reality of predators and all these different animals that are going to eat bodies if a body's there, there's not going to be much left. You spent obviously, you spent time in the woods. Have you ever seen the dead mountain line? No. I've never seen a dead bear. I've only seen dead bears because I was hunting. Well, no, that's not true. No, we did find one. But I think it's very rare, but that one was recently dead, he was killed by another bear. I think most of the time when you find dead animals, it's very recent. And if an animal's dead and it's left alone in the woods within a certain amount of time, something's going to eat it. Everything's going to eat it, including the bones. There's almost nothing left by the time they get done with it. 100%. Now, but one thing I learned from being around rangers in all these years now is that there's few things that belong to us that we go into the woods with that are always going to be there. Namely our shoes, belt buckles, belt buckles, leather anything, the rubber waistband of your underwear, these kind of things stay forever, a rifle, a pistol, a bow. And those things you're going to find. But getting back to the point of these guys, there were too many people going missing in a short period of time that no one seemed to care about. That was really their main focus. And somebody ought to look into it, somebody ought to start collecting data, nobody did. And maybe somebody from the outside, they're the inside, maybe somebody from the outside would have more luck putting this all together rather than them. That was kind of the gist of it. Well, there's some cases that are just flat out weird. Like some cases like people go missing, they die, animals eat them, that's a wrap. That makes sense to me. But there's a few cases. And one of them you covered was a guy, I believe he was from Canada that went skiing in New York and he went missing. And then he showed up 2,500 miles later in California with ski clothes on and he didn't know what happened. Yeah, that was, he was a fireman from, I think, Toronto that went with a bunch of friends to New York on like a weekend ski trip. And the guys were all getting together at the end of the day to leave and they couldn't find him. He says he wakes up on a truck traveling from like Reno to Sacramento, woke up in the back of a truck? No, sitting in the front seat. And he said that he was, as he wakes up, he's talking, it's not like he was asleep in woke up. It's like his mind suddenly flashed open, "Hey, you're alive now, you can keep talking." And he goes, "But I was talking to the driver." And we're traveling. The driver drops him off at Sacramento Airport. He doesn't remember anything, but he remembers his home phone number. He calls his wife in Toronto and she goes, "Hey, everyone's searching for you, thinking you're still at the ski resort." He goes, "He has all the ski clothes on." How many days later? I don't remember. But even he doesn't make sense of it. He doesn't know how he got in the truck. The truck driver left. Nobody knows who the truck driver was. That was kind of the whole story. It wasn't a lot. He didn't ask the truck driver, "Hey, where'd you pick me up?" I think he was embarrassed. Just embarrassed that he was in the truck and doesn't remember how he got in there. Yeah. Okay. So he didn't say anything. Did he have any memories from skiing to, like, did he ever do like regressive hypnosis or anything? If he did, it never went public. Hmm. Was that the weirdest one? I don't know. What's the weirdest one you heard of? The strangest disappearance story. There's a lot of people that disappear, that don't have a memory. And if you look back and you study missing people, those people historically have been abducted. And there's something about that abduction experience where they can take away part of your mind. You think alien abduction. That's what you're saying. Alien, entity, something. Some type of form. Okay. Just want to be clear, we're not talking about, like, a bad person abducting person. No. No, we're talking about some kind of entity. Okay. And they take away part of that mind where they were probably doing something to you that they don't want you to know. Right. And there's a lot of those, there's a whole segment of people that I have chronicled that were truck drivers who have amnesia, who were found in conditions that were very strange. There was a truck driver in the Midwest, where the salt of the air of kind of guy drove, drove independently, wiping a couple kids. He picks up a load, I want to say it was pigs, and his truck is found, like outside of Indiana on a little two lane highway, stopped on the side of the road. He's not anywhere to be found, but his coat is found in a ditch on the other side of the other lane. So the sheriff comes out, they do a huge search, flyovers, canines, it goes on for like four or five days, nothing. We can half later, his body is found in that field, in the spot where they had searched all that time, impossible to miss. There says he's been dead for two weeks, well the sheriff can't make sense of that, because he searched that with dogs and people, that guy should have been there. But Joe, I have 1,500 of those cases where canines were brought in, multiple canine teams, multiple searches, and people were not found. And the point I try to make about this is that it's not that the searchers are inept because I don't believe that. And I don't believe that the canines fail multiple, multiple times, because I don't believe that can happen. I don't believe they were there when they were searching. They were left there later on. So you've been, you've been
this for a long time, right? What was the first case that you looked into that got you thinking something weird's going on? Probably would have been a osemite and there was a girl named Stacey Harris and she just weirdly she grew up like five miles from me. I grew up in a little city, Cupertino, California. She grew up in Saratoga the next town over. She went with her dad on a trip by horse sponsored by a contractor in the park at Yosemite and they were going to write into this place called the High Sierra Camp. Her and her dad and five other people and they get escorted in by a cowboy contractor and they come to these cabins and her dad's an older guy they get to the cabin and she says hey dad I'm going to go over here to the point I'm going to take some pictures she brings her camera and one of the guys a 72 year old guy is sitting at that point and she goes I'm going to go right there and sit with him and take some pictures he goes sure dad watches her walk out they sit down old old guy barely could ride the horse she's taking pictures she gets up and down at the bottom of the hill there's a small lake and surrounding the lake there's trees she walks down into the trees presumably to take pictures of the lake but she doesn't come back big search I'm talking about one of the biggest searches in Yosemite history and they find the lens cap to a camera inside that path in the tree line they never find her and that happened 46 years ago I filed a Freedom of Information Act for that report and all the investigation into it and I get denied I appealed I got denied finally a special agent from the park service just so people know the park service has uniformed police officers national park service police that patrol their parks and they go to the National Law Enforcement Academy up above them they have special agents detectives and they are doing all the follow-up work the police officers in the field do this case goes to a special agent there's been nothing done on this case in 40 years the special agent calls me why do you want the case I said well that's an irrelevant question according to FOIA you can't ask that and he goes why I want to know I said well it's been 47 years I doubt anyone's looked at it have you looked at it no nobody's looked at it I said I'd like a copy of it just to understand what happened he goes you're never going to get the case this guy's name was special agent you why you I said why and he says none of your business you're never going to get it I said first of all why talk to me like that I'm prior law enforcement I'm not being rude I just want to know he goes forget it drop it you're never going to see it I said no I want that case and he goes you know you've never seen any other missing person case and you're not going to see this one I said whoa I have over 30 missing person cases from your agency from around the united states that I foiled before and I've received you're a liar you said that to me I said no I'm not a liar I don't why and this is the truth and he goes well you're not getting this one anything else you want to know I said no I think you've done it and that was it in that amount of time I've really found out nothing more about the stacey ever's case 14-year-old girl disappeared never found nobody's ever done anything on the case in 40 years I stopped and seen it now I talked to Tim Burchette who you had in here the other day and I explained to him I want a meeting with Bergen and I want to lay out what I have and explain the obstruct the head of the department of the interior Doug Bergen okay and explain to him the obstructions that are happening in his agency those are our reports if nobody's looked at it in 40 plus years what is the matter if I have it right the people that were working back then aren't working anymore it's not anyone's going to get in trouble enough half of them are dead right and Tim said okay my people get a hold of you they got a hold of me they said that they called DOI they said that DOI people said yeah we'll get a hold of you I called them three times they won't come back so what do you think is going on so when you look at the totality of and let's just talk about Yosemite as I dug into it there's probably over 50 people missing in Yosemite as we talk right now when I asked for a list from Yosemite from the department of the interior 12 years ago they said they don't have a list I asked for a list of missing people from the entire system in the department of interior they said we don't have a list and I said well okay I've written so many books I'm a printed author I'm going to ask you to put that list together for me according to the rules I fit that criteria to ask but they said they don't have a list right but I asked them to put one together okay and they said we'll get back to you they said no you don't qualify but if you want us to put together a list from the entire system it's going to cost you 1.4 million dollars if you want a list from Yosemite that's going to cost you 34,000 dollars so that got me really upset over the next two years I put the list together Joe the third year you know what Yosemite did they released a list of missing people from Yosemite so I know I got all the people from Yosemite I wrote about them in my books they started released a list from the entire system so do you think they released it because you were pressuring them no like you can look at it a bunch of different ways I'm trying to like look at it from the skeptics perspective you'd say well this is clear a bunch of people don't want to do their jobs they're lazy they don't like this guy coming along and asking for information but you think there's something weird going on so before you I found on their website that was sent to him in 2011 it says that the appeal was properly invoked because of exemptions 7a and here's all you read that with that is 7a permits the withholding of records of information complied or compiled rather for law enforcement purposes but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings so they could withhold it because you could interfere with enforcement proceedings 40 years later that's 30 years later I guess that's fucking weird the exemption is intended to prevent premature disclosure of the investigate investigatory materials that might be used in law enforcement action 40 years later it says the incident is still long in criminal investigations the incident is still long going 40 years later what okay 10 foil hat firmly placed on your head what do you think's going on so first of all missing people investigations are not criminal investigations right there's nothing criminal about disappearing if it's a criminal investigation and there's criminal aspects to it it shouldn't be a missing person case it ought to be suspicious circumstances investigated by a criminal investigator right it has a classification as a missing person and what they're not saying there is what about the other 40 cases I've already gotten from them that are since that that are missing person cases right so that's a little weird but I could also see incompetent people that don't want to work they don't want to do their job and then like fuck this guy I don't want to do his work I don't want to go why is he asking me for this information he's just a kooky author I could see that but like what do you think might be going on with these people so when I was in law enforcement I worked on the SWAT team and we had canines assigned to our team Joe I can't ever remember us looking for someone with a dog and the dog didn't find the person right I have 1200 to 1500 cases where they bring a canine to find a missing person and the dog can't track won't track or turns around comes down and sits down and is not interested in tracking that's totally outside the behavior of a dog this episode is brought to you by zippercrooter we've all been there putting something off because we simply don't want to do it and then it never gets done or you do it poorly your enthusiasm or lack thereof shows in your work hiring managers know this it's a big factor they consider and if you're like them zippercrooter is your greatest ally because you can try it for free at zippercrooter.com/roganand zippercrooter just added a new feature that identifies people who are interested in your role from those who are just 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post on zippercrooter, get a quality candidate within the first day and now you can try it for free at zippercrooter.com/rogon that zippercrooter.com/rogon meet your match with zippercrooter. Isn't that what happened to that woman recently that went missing? That was a part of this whole group of scientists that were involved in propulsion research. Risa? Yeah. Some sort of situation where she was with her friend, they were hiking, they had just talked. The friend was ahead of her and the friend turned around to ask her a question, she was gone. They do an investigation, they bring in dogs, can't find anything. The lady's just gone. 100%. You're 100% right. It doesn't make any sense and it does. It fit that 4-1-1 criteria that I laid down, which is why I did a video about it. Her disappearance doesn't make sense. Do you have suspicions? Do you think something supernatural is going on? Do you think something extraterrestrial or interdimensional? What do you think is involved in these people going missing? First of all, I don't know. In my books, I've laid out facts and I let the viewer decide. One thing I did find, because I've written about a lot of hunters that have disappeared. Let's say you and I go out and we're going to go pig hunting at your friend's farm down the way. You say, "Hey, Dave, you go that way and I'll go that way and I'll meet you in an hour." In my world, I call that point of separation. Every time on a missing hunter case, it's at that point of separation that something happens. Never happens when they're together. It always happens when people are alone. That's point number one. Number two is the canine issue. Canines failure to pick up a cent. They bring in professional trackers and they can't find tracks. That's not normal. A lot of times, saying Alaska, they have some great native trackers up there. They can't find people and every other time they can. If you're going from A to B, you're going to leave a cent and you're going to leave a track. They can't find that and that's not normal. I made a movie called Missing 411 The Hunted. In that movie, there was a case of 12 guys who are planning trees on the side of a mountain in Washington state and there's a herd of elk at the bottom of the mountain and all of these guys see this classic UFO come up the mountain, hover over one elk. The herd scatters, but one elk doesn't. It just stands there. Then without anything between the UFO and the elk, it picks the elk up and it's gone. You guys all say, "F this, I'm out of here, the whole group of planners, leave." The manager for the company says, "Whoa, guys, hold on. What's going on?" They call "move on out," mutual UFO network. They bring some investigators out and they interview these guys one by one. They all say the same thing and they say, "What we're afraid of is we're next." They just took that elk, but we're next. That's in the movie. Keep that in your back of your mind. There's a guy named Carl in Wyoming. He's hunting in the medicine-bow national forest alone. See some elk, 100 yards away, lines up with this rifle, bloom. He says, "David's like everything went into slow motion. I see the bullet come out the gun about three or four feet and it drops to the ground." As I walked over and he goes, "They all couldn't move and I picked it up, the bullet." I put the bullet in my pocket and then two alien-type entities walk up to me and they engage him in mind-speak and what they do is they eventually take him on a craft and they take the elk on the craft. It's like the elk are frozen there in time. They have him march behind a screen and they say, "We don't want you. You're going back, mind or mind." He goes, "What's going on?" He goes, "You're going back." He says, "The next thing I remember is falling 10 to 15 feet, he's guessing. He hits his shoulder, probably displaces it and he rolls down a hill. They're already searching for him because he's missing, his wife, the sheriff, and they take him back and they take him to a hospital and they're taking X-rays and he had tuberculosis scars as a kid. Those are no longer there." He had other medical issues that are completely cured. The investigators came out and the Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement looked at that bullet and did an exam on it and they could not figure out what that bullet hit to make it deformed in the manner that it did. I have pictures of it in the movie. It's very odd. See if you can find the pictures online. Of course you are. If you go to Tubi, T-U-B-I, missing 4-1-1-the-hunted, the movie is there for free. You guys can watch it. Also check out GearHead's Gone Wild. That's my friend's show. Okay, so no tuberculosis scars, the bullet, so I'm talking to Carl and I said, "Well, why do you think they sent you back?" He says, "Well, I think it's because I had a vasectomy." I said, "Oh, did they say anything to you about that?" No. Okay. So he was 91 years old when I interviewed him. Sharp is a tack. How old was he when this encounter happened? I think he was 38, 39. And again, this happened in the Medicine Bowl National Forest. Where is that? So it was directly, I'd say about 75 miles north, west of Cheyenne. So at about the same time, the Air Force Base in Cheyenne is having a group of cluster UFO sightings above the ICBM sites. And that was never made public at this time. It was 30, 40, 50 years later, through Robert Hastings and other Air Force personnel came out that these documents started to show up. So Carl would have never known what was happening at the same time these things in Cheyenne were happening. And then you think about, "What's going on in Wyoming that would cause this?" But really, the epiphany to me with Carl is there's a lot of people in the woods that are found, quote unquote, "they fell." They always fall alone. And they always fall in places where if you and I are in the woods, we're going to be pretty careful when we're alone. We're not going to be walking off a cliff. We're going to be careful. A lot of these people are found in their very unusual circumstances dead at the bottom of an area that you just don't think makes sense. And they couldn't be tracked. So with Carl, when you think about him being taken, a hunter, hunting elk, nobody gets seen, nothing's heard. So I did a circumference around the area where he went. And it's in the movie, there's a group of the German hunters, Carl was German. German hunters that have disappeared, nobody else but German, that have disappeared in that area. And then when you look at the scope of what I've done in my work, I went backwards and I found there's a lot of German people that have been abducted, more than the normal population of people. And these German hunters really were the opening valve to me that something odd was happening with German. What do you think that is? Why German? I really wish I knew. That's probably the outside of my pay grade. I don't know. I mean there's a lot of rumors about the Germans having associations with aliens or during the Nazi times. Yeah. Right. Well, there's a lot of weird occult stuff going on with the Nazis, right? Then they were making like what looked like a UFO that were constructing these things that looked like flying saucers. Right. You know the Travis Walton case? Oh, very well. Yeah. I have his bobble head. He came in here. That's another guy that went missing in the woods and it's a similar story. You know, he was taking a board, some sort of a craft, multiple witnesses, including people who hated him. One guy, he actually got in a fist fight with earlier that day. And they all told the same story. They all passed polygraph tests. He shows up days later with this crazy story that he had been hit by a beam of light. They took him aboard this craft, fixed him, fixed whatever happened to him and communicated with him and then dropped him back off. I know Travis well. In fact, I was doing a conference in Phoenix and he brought his son to the conference because his son wanted to meet me because a lot of my work focused around things that happened to Travis. And I think Travis's case is probably not unique and there's probably
thousands of people out there, they just don't want to talk about it. They just want it to go away because it's too weird and because you feel like a fool. Yeah, that, and I think maybe they're afraid that they're going to get pigeonholed is what you just said odd. Yeah. You're a crazy person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Travis case is very interesting because I mean, this is just, I mean, I'm just saying this, but most people who lie, they lie about a lot of stuff. They don't just have one crazy lie from the 1970s that they keep repeating exactly the same way and have witnesses. You know, that's, the whole thing is very strange. Also, the fact that he went missing in the woods and then showed up multiple days later. There's nothing wrong with him. He's not dehydrated. He's not starving to death. He's fine. He's just weirded out. He has this crazy story. And it's not like his story is unique either. That's what's very strange. The people that have been abducted, they all have very similar stories. They have similar, similar stories about medical examinations, being taken aboard a craft, things communicating with them telepathically. You know, there's, there's no like delusions of grandeur like you have, you're the chosen one, you're unique, you're neo, you're the one we wanted. We came here for you. There's nothing, nothing kooky like that. It's all just, they want to know what's going on with the human species. And they find a specimen, they do an examination. And it sounds completely insane. But we do that. We do that with species. We do that with other things. We do that with primates. We do that with all kinds of different animals that we research. I mean, people, there's probably someone doing it right now in the Congo, probably looking for some animals, you know, tranquilizing some animal, doing studies on it, releasing it back into the wild. We do it all the time. One of the things I say at conferences is, what if we're the ant farm? Yeah. That's like a lot of fun. So this is the bullet. So this is, thank you, Jamie. This is the bullet that this guy shot and it hit something right in front of him, just completely deformed. That bullet looks like it hit a wall, like it hit something like a giant plate of steel or something. I mean, it's just completely flattened. That's not like a bullet that hits an animal. You know, bullets that hit, well, it could hit bones and stuff and get distorted. But it wouldn't be intact like that. That looks like an intact bullet that just flattened out hitting something completely immovable. Very weird. One of the things that Carl said that they told him is, when he got on that craft, is he said, hey, you have my elk. And they said, yeah, it's Carl. They said that we often come down to your earth and we take animals and we study them. And you happen to be one of the people that was right there when we were taking that. So we took you too. And I've heard this before from other abductees that, just like you said, we look at and test animals, apparently they're monitoring the health of our planet by testing animals themselves. So he said they communicated with him telepathically? Yes. What did he say they talked to him about? So the elk, why are they interested in elk? That's a good question. And-- Because they're cool. Elk are very cool. They're very cool. They're very cool. Yes, they are. Now, that's an interesting point, because there are more hunters that are abducted or that disappear hunting elk than any other animal. And it's not that there's more hunters hunting elk. There's more hunters hunting deer on the whole in the United States. But for some reason, there's more hunters that disappear hunting elk. And I've said this in my books before. Well, as a hunter, one thing that I would say is that when you're hunting elk, you're in the backcountry, for the most part. You're in wild remote areas with mountains. You're in a place with very few people. It's very hard to get to them. Whereas deer hunting, a lot of it's done on farms. A lot of it's done on flat land, a lot of tree stand hunting. Deer, white-tailed deer, specifically in North America, are the most hunted animal. But if you've ever gone white-tail hunting, a lot of it is in and around farmland. And you've never, very rarely at least, you're hunting white-tailed deer in the mountains, remote mountain ranges. Mule deer, you hunt mule deer in remote mountain ranges. But white-tailed deer, they tend to populate around humans and around agriculture. So, that kind of makes sense. If they want to be stealthy, if they're trying to not be detected by as many people, you would probably, also, you probably, if you're going to abduct someone and be reasonably sure that no one was going to see you do it, you would probably go where there's very few people and just some random guy who's decided to hike up to 10,000 feet and chase a herd of elk. Another thing I've heard from Carl is that he was told that these entities, whoever they are, have the ability to freeze time and space. And remember what I said, the elk he was looking at, he said he shot and they didn't move. It's like they were frozen. And they were frozen in that same position when he got on the craft. Time and space being that everything around him, nobody could walk in, nobody could walk out. It's like the time and space that he and the entity and the elk were in were frozen. It's a hard thing to grasp, but I've heard this before. It is a hard thing to grasp, but the people that speculate on how these advanced species, whatever they are, they're able to travel that there's some sort of manipulation of space time, that it's not as simple as like what we do, which is very crude. We do propulsion. We burn things and push stuff out the back and it makes stuff go forward. Or we have an internal combustion engine that does the same thing. It makes explosions inside the engine, burns things, pushes the pistons around, forces the transmission, and it moves. What these things supposedly do, and again, this is all just crazy talk. But what they're able to do is manipulate space time itself and instantaneously travel from one place to the next, because they have a control over the universe in a way that, with us, it's like completely theoretical. There's this woman that speculates that in the future, someday, with many, many, many advancements, and who knows how many years of, we will be able to travel quantumly. The way quantum particles are entangled, she believes that perhaps the entire universe works that way, and that everything is connected. And that this thing that we have, this idea that the distance between stars is far too vast for a human to travel, because you can't travel past the speed of light, and if you did travel past the speed of light, it would still take, and even if you went like two times the speed of light, three times the speed of light, it would still take thousands and thousands of years to just get to the closest planets outside of our solar system. And she thinks that one day, perhaps, if not humans, or whatever is coming after humans, we'll be able to quantumly travel. And you would imagine that would involve some sort of manipulation of space and time that we can't quite understand, that we're just, we're talking about it like it's magic. But again, if you were talking to someone from the 1400s about a cell phone, hey, I could face time, my friend in Australia, they'd go, what the fuck are you talking about? Well, I pick out this device in my pocket that's as thin as a few slices of paper, and through that, I can, I can like stare at my friend, and he can see me and I can see him, like that's magic. You're talking crazy talk. There's nothing, there's no cord, there's nothing, somehow or another, there's like, what are you sending that's being received, and it comes into HD video with sound and it perfectly lines up with the way the person's talking, you hear it in real time, that's crazy. That doesn't even make sense. But yeah, we just are so accustomed to it that it's normal, oh, I'm getting a face time call from my friend. Oh, hey, what's up, buddy? You know, we think it's normal. And then you got to imagine if you could just push into the future and imagine thousands of years of innovation and technology, like what does that look like? You know, communication used to be, you had to shout, you know, bobs over there, a hundred yards away, you have to put your hands, we're going to the left, you know, now you could just text them or you could call them, and that the ability to communicate at vast distances will one day be very similar to the way we travel, we can travel vast distances instantaneously.
of the entanglement idea that you talked about. What if you're in Austin and I go back to Whitefish, Montana? And what if we had the ability to think, hey, Joe, I forgot to tell you this when I was on your show, and I told you by my mind. Now people would say, oh, that's stupid, that's ridiculous. But I've talked to people that are way smarter than me that say that part of this entanglement is, is that, what if you're in space and you're on the far side of the moon? And what if we all have that ability right now to affect others and other places and our thinking and our mind is really more powerful. And we are this spider web of entanglement that we don't quite understand right now. And let me, where this came from is George Nap, been on a show like 30 times. He had a guy named Column Keller, who was the head of all investigations for Bigelow at Skinwalker Ranch. And George said, hey, Dave, Keller wants you to come out to Las Vegas. He thinks some of the work that they're doing at the ranch right now overlaps with your work on missing people. So I came out to Las Vegas three or four times, met with Keller. And we talked about just what you're talking about right now, this overlapping of understanding consciousness. Because it's much more complex than some people are willing or even for us to understand. But what if what's happening on Earth right now, whether it's abductions, cattle mutilations, UFOs, is really something that is so beyond us, we tried to think in rational terms, well, they're taking us for our sperm or they're taking us for our eggs. What if it's something a lot more deep than really we could comprehend right now? Like what? I don't know. I'm asking you, Joe. But his point being that all the time they spent almost 20 years at that ranch investigating things. And he tells me about this one incident. And he says, I've got a physicist up on the hill with another researcher. It's two o'clock in the morning. They're looking down at the meadow and they see this bright light. And this bright light starts to get bigger. And if you tell your guy, he could pick it up right now on, if you go to Amazon, to the movie American Sasquatch, Man, Myth, or Legend, it's my movie, we have it there. And it starts getting bigger. And one guy doesn't have night vision. The other guy does. And this round thing keeps getting bigger and bigger. Till eventually, it's like you're looking down a tube. And he says, it's almost three dimensional because you could see something at the far end of the tube. And the physicist just hand in the night vision back and they're sharing it. Eventually the tube gets to be about this big. That something twice the size of you and I could crawl through. All of a sudden, they see something crawling down the tube. It crawls out, it jumps down onto the land. And they see it's so dark, even with night vision, that they could just see a silhouette and it's bipedal seven or eight feet tall, all black and color. Is this it? No. Is that the documentary you're talking? No. Something different. Yeah. Sasquatch, Man, Myth, or Monster. Is that it? That's it. Yeah. Okay. So this is your film. That is the film, but that's what I'm talking about. Where is it in the film? Do you remember? That's near the near the end, like three quarters of the way through it. It's with my interview with Killer and he's talking about it and and this thing and then it walks away on on two feet. And when we talk about this, he said, it doesn't make any sense to us. You know, did we just see a portal open up and an entity from another dimension crawl through into our dimension? And is that the access point that they're using? And can they open this at certain times and close it at certain times at will? And really, that was the first time that I had heard this from someone credible that this can happen. And if you think about the people at the ranch today, they said, well, the amount of energy it takes to open a portal is somebody times greater than an atom bomb that it doesn't make sense that that could be the answer to this. Well, maybe their answer to what a portal is is different. But what these guys saw doesn't make a lot of sense to us. Well, the whole Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense. One of the reasons why the Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of sense is that Native Americans don't have a lot of mythological creatures. It's not like they have a ton of dragons and demons and pixies and wood sprites. There's not. But there's over a hundred. Didn't we look this up? The name for Sasquatch? There's like 50 different names that they have for this one thing that they universally described as a bipedal, hairy, ape-like creature that's 8 to 10 feet tall. And there's so many sightings of this one thing. It's not like people keep talking about different animals. Like I saw an elephant that has six legs. No, it's always bipedal hominids. It's weird. It's a weird so because like I've never seen compelling Bigfoot footage. It all looks bullshit. The Patterson footage I think is nonsense. I think it's a guy on a monkey suit for sure. I think most of what you see in terms of like photographic evidence is nonsense. But there's too many stories. There's too many stories for me to completely dismiss it. And I've always wondered if it's some sort of an interdimensional experience and that this thing may be the fact that it's in the woods and that they happen under heightened awareness because you're in the woods and you're probably very nervous and freaked out. So you're probably in a very bizarre state of mind. And all of a sudden you encounter something that makes zero sense. And the same thing gets encountered by people over and over again. And you could write that out. Now if you're a cynical person or a rational person, which I'm neither one else, you could write it off and you could say, well, there's an archetype. People have talked about this creature for so long that that's what you expect to see. So that's what you make yourself see. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe it's a bear that walks on two legs because we know they do that, particularly black bears. They walk on two legs all the time. I've seen them walk on two legs. It's very weird. But they don't describe it like a bear. They describe it like an ape. They say it has long arms like an ape and that it looks at you and that these things exist in the forest like deep in the forest where there's no people. And then when people go out there, they encounter them. And the story is just, it's like the UFO abduction story. It's so similar. It's so similar over and over again, like a very similar story. And you've always got to separate the cookie stories because there's always a bunch of crazy people that make things up. There's a bunch of people that are probably on psychiatric drugs or they're tripping balls on mushrooms or whatever it is. There's a bunch of people that see things that maybe aren't there at all. But then there's enough of these stories where you got to go, man, if just one of these is true, one out of a hundred. And then there's thousands of them like how, what is going on? On an ape, it's not a gorilla. If it was, we'd have it in the zoo. And we don't. The, it walks like a man, ape and gorillas don't walk like a man. Well, John can't, John can't the Pythagus did, right? No. It didn't. There's no evidence it was bipedal at all. I thought it was the jaw structure. So they have one piece of jaw and a bunch of teeth. And there's a lot of theories behind that. But there's no evidence it was bipedal. Oh, that's number one. Number two, there's no evidence if it's ever been in North America. Right. But the sightings that they find of this thing are in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest primarily. This is where you get a lot of them. And the idea would be that when the bearing land bridge was around before the ice age or during the ice age, when the ocean levels were much lower. And there was more land exposed that these things could walk across Asia. Like we know the short face bear did, and we also know people made it from Siberia into North America. So let's just, let's just take, again, to Pythagus. That wouldn't be some, an environment it could live in, though. That was, that was a jungle animal. Right. Right. In Asia. Correct. So let's, let's get back to that. But it's all before you go on. But there's also, Jacque Antipythicus, they found less than 100 years ago. So these, I believe they were anthropologists and they were searching for different bones in an apothecary shop in
China and they found a molar that was extraordinarily large like way too large and it was a primate molar and they were like what is this and so they took them to where they found it and then as they started digging they found some more bones and some different things I know how much stuff have they found of gigantopithecus that's it now imagine if they never found that here's the here's a question if they never found any of that stuff show me what they got okay we only have jaws and teeth which are gigantopithecus not pelvis leg bones or full skeleton so it's exact gate can't be observed directly researchers infer its posture and locomotion by comparing its anatomy and evolutionary relationships with living great apes especially orangutans which are all quadrupedal and not habitual bipeds so why do they think it's okay no gigantopithecus is not thought to have been bipedal scientific consensus is that was a large mostly quadrupedal ape so why does some people say it's bipedal where the idea came from okay a minority of researchers and many bigfoot enthusiasts have proposed a bipedal gigantopithecus often linking it to Sasquatch but those arguments rely on speculative interpretations of jaw shape rather than solid post cranial fossils these bipedal reconstructions are generally rejected by specialists in fossil apes regard them as highly unlikely given current evidence so perplexity our A.I. sponsor says no says bigfoot something different so but the thing is if gigantopithecus was a real thing and all we have is these a tiny amount of fossilized bones and and teeth how many things make fossils very few very few so they're very well could have been a bipedal ape like a human that was much larger I mean we know at one point in time bipedal hominids like you know the early versions of human beings were very hairy and some of them were larger than us we just don't have fossils because most things don't leave fossils like the fossil record is incredibly incomplete right yeah yeah so you know in east Texas there's a lot of bigfoot sightings really east Texas east Texas this episode is brought to you by visible spring is in the air which means time for some spring cleaning we're cleaning out the garage and finally tossing those mystery cords but while you're cleaning out your junk drawer take a look at your wireless bill don't fall for wireless traps tacked on fees confusing bills and empty promises join visible and cut out the nonsense with visible you get unlimited 5G data and hotspot on Verizon's network for one flat cost just $25 a month taxes and fees included it's everything you need and nothing you don't plus for a limited time new members can get the visible plan for just $20 a month for one year using code fresh start refresh your wireless with visible head to visible dot com to get started terms apply limited time offer subject to change see visible dot com for plan features and network management details what kind of a terrain mushy swampy okay wet yeah right on the border east Texas Tennessee the border of what Oklahoma no down in the ocean oh okay so we talked about you were talking about Alaska Pacific Northwest a lot of bigfoot sightings a lot of bigfoot sightings in Tennessee to Kentucky and a lot of moonshine Kentucky Tennessee yes a lot of people smoke and crank yes so after I was a policeman I had a masters degree worked technology for a while I had masters in HR I ran HR organizations did that for five six seven years I said I had enough and I'm leaving I had young kids so I was gonna leave with my family and have fun two founders of this company super rich come to me and they say hey Dave we got a job for you at your own space at your own will here's the story when they were younger they didn't know each other they grew up in different parts they went up into the woods with their families backpacking camping having fun they get up in the middle of the night take a leak and independently didn't know each other they saw bigfoot they found each other they formed this company made millions of dollars one day they're at lunch and they start talking to each other and they had the same experience they said wow that's that's freaking bizarre so let's get to the bottom of it so I'm leaving they know I have an investigative background they said hey we're gonna hire you we want you to go find out if it's true false or hoax they hired you to go check to see if bigfoot was real flip the whole bill they said you do it at your own pace on well we'll pay for everything I said not interested they came back to me like four or five times finally at the end of the year my wife is divorcing me I now have only 50% custody I have 50% of my life open to do whatever I want they came at me again I said okay they're I'm gonna shorten it down to from what took five years to five minutes Tennessee the Great Smokey Mountain National Park there was a man there named Scott Carpenter Scott Rusted Soul has since died but he took me into an area in the park and he said Dave this is the part where I've I've had all kinds of evidence what kind of evidence footprints hair hair hair so is he ever had the hair analyzed okay so we start talking about it how can we get a good sample of hair so I said you know with bearer they take bear samples and DNA samples from bearer all the time let's try this let's take some packaging tape wrap it inside out on the outside of a tree put something at the fork of the tree some kind of food whatever honey something if they lean up against the tree it's gonna pull the hair out which we need the follicle for the DNA let's see if that works just this Bryant we did it it worked in that area we had tracks now just so you know and everyone else knows there's hair and fiber experts in the world and they test to find superior court all the time I got in the lobby you have all these different kinds of animals if we took a hair from one animal and give it to a hair and fiber expert he could tell you within two minutes what animal that came from because every hair looks different so we took those hairs with a hair and fiber expert and they said well where'd you get that and they know what do you mean we've never seen that hair before it's not classified it doesn't exist okay so that means we're on to something so then I took it up follicle can they do DNA on her or is it just hair they did okay it did so I called the I was living in California at the time I called the University of California Davis the biggest animal lab in the world and they said what do you got I explained they said bigfoot we're not touching it we don't want anything to do with it I went to University of Texas UC Davis I went to like six or seven no one would touch it but then I found a woman that testified in the courts here in Texas as a DNA expert I call her up her name is Melba Ketchum doctor Ketchum I have this sample here would you be willing to do DNA analysis on it absolutely it's gonna cost you so many thousands of dollars I go no problem we've got somebody who's gonna pay so she goes okay let's do one better Dave send me the sample let me look at it first I'm gonna give it to my hair and fiber expert they look at it fiber hair and fiber experts says it's nothing we've ever seen so that's good so she goes okay here's here's what we're gonna do can you get any more samples I said I have an idea let me try so I go on coast to coast and I I laid it out I said hey we have these samples we're looking for hair samples don't don't bullshit us because we'll know right away send us hair samples with with everything attached and we're gonna send it to a lab you don't have to pay the bill we got a hundred and twenty five valid samples that were not deer and alope bear whatever she goes through the DNA analysis on it cost I think it cost us four hundred thousand dollars at the end of the day it's a lot less expensive now and they all so hair will will give you mitochondrial DNA from the maternal side but it won't give you fraternal DNA from the father side that you need nuclear DNA blood tissue saliva and we got some of those son of a gun at the end of the day the DNA comes back 12 to 15 thousand years to the Middle East on the mother side father side it does
doesn't exist in GenBank, 352 billion base pairs of DNA does not exist. The father's DNA does not exist. GenBank says it's impossible. Since that time, other people have come forward and said, hey, you know, on the elongated skulls, we've had the same problem. We can't find the fraternal DNA just like you. That's a guy named LA Marzooli that was during the research there. And then Ron Morhead, who's doing other DNA studies on elongated skulls in South America, said the same thing. That's odd, Dave. So the maternal, we understand. The fraternal, we don't. And the DNA, they did a paper about it, it's online, having a lot of people say, oh, you know it, it's BS, it's bad, but nobody else has ever done a test. And I could get you more hair within two weeks if we wanted to. Nobody wants to test it. I'll test it. What do we have to do? The truth is, the truth is, the truth is, Jamie ready to go? Let's go. Let's get some tape. The truth is, it'll all come back the same. And I believe that the researchers who have done it, they've gotten the same results. So, if you say that it, on the fraternal side, it doesn't exist. On the maternal side, it's showing thousands, it would explain that again. So like, I'm Greek. So they could, they could chase my DNA backwards through time to, I don't know, Greece, 10, 15,000 years ago. Well, they were able to chase the maternal side back to the Middle East 12 to 15,000 years. And what did they say it was? That's all they said. And what they're saying is that, and a lot of people have picked up on this, that has a lot of religious connotations to it. Why does it have religious connotations to it? Because of the Middle East 12 to 15,000 years. Right. But why is that religious? It's a part of the world 12 to 15,000 years ago, what gives it religious connotations other than the fact that that's the origins of a lot of religions. That's it. Right. But it's also humans and different animals lived there, like there's probably deer down there that weren't religious at all, you know, their DNA tracks back to that too. Specific results she reported. She claimed 111 samples from 34 North American sites produced two patterns. Human, M-T-D-N-A, and unusual are novel, nuclear sequences that supposedly did not match known animals. Her interpretation was that about 15,000 years ago, an unknown, hominin male population interbred with modern human females, leading to a hybrid lineage whose descendants are today's supposed Sasquatch. How and where it was published. Study did not appear in a normal, established peer-reviewed journal. Instead, it was put into an obscure outlet called DeNovo Scientific Journal, which catch them herself effectively controlled to get the paper online. Most reporters and skeptics noted the absence of transparent peer-review, the paywall for self-published paper, and the lack of independent labs reproducing her findings. But did independent labs try to reproduce her findings? That's the question. Scientific criticism. Genetics, geneticists, and forensic biologists who examined the data and methodology have repeatedly pointed to contamination and poor lab practice as the most likely explanation for her hybrid sequences. Analysis noted that the MTDNA, being 100% modern human, is exactly what you would expect from contaminated or human origin samples, and that the odd nuclear sequences are consistent with mixed DNA, sequencing errors, or low-quality data, not a new species. Current status of her DNA claims, no major genetics lab or independent research group has replicated catch-em-results or confirmed a novel, hominin genome corresponding to Bigfoot. In mainstream science, her studies treated as an example of flawed junk science, interesting to Bigfoot enthusiasts, but offering no accepted evidence that Sasquatch exists. But here's a thing. Did anybody else try to test those things? No. And let me explain that argument they just used, they're talking to a bunch of idiots. So when they say it's contaminated, so let's say I contaminated the sample, well Joe, my dad was Russian, the contaminated sample which you'll on the maternal side, Russian. Right. It wouldn't show nothing. Right. That's why that argument makes no sense. Well, I'm not a geneticist, so I don't know if it makes sense. Yeah, you know, I'm saying, like if you could say, oh, this is why, you know, if you had someone who understood DNA and contamination and the whole process, they could maybe explain it in a better way. So what the idea that humans interbred with things is not a new idea, you know, I read something recently, I actually watched a YouTube video and then read an article, I think we talked about this, I'm pretty sure we did, where they believe that Neanderthal, they used to think that Neanderthal was a subspecies, like a different version of humans and that they interbred with us. There's a group of people that now are speculating that Neanderthal was the result of humans breeding with another ancient hominid and that that created Neanderthal. So it's not that we interbred with Neanderthal, but that humans actually created Neanderthal by breeding with this other hominid. So there's only one country in the world that ever took this topic seriously. Which country? Russia. They took their science academy and took the five top scientists. This happened 40 years ago and they started studying what was called almasthi, same as our bigfoot. Okay. And I'm not bullshitting you, this is 100% true. Two of their scientists came to the US. I met one of them at a conference in Colorado seven or eight years ago. And I walk into the room and he's holding both of my books as I walk in and he says Dave, you're the only guy to tell the truth out of everybody out here. That you're saying about the DNA, what you're saying about the lineage is 100% fact. It's what we found. And we know that they aren't any kind of April Gorilla, it's a human hybrid that people don't understand. So did the Russians think that it exists currently? 100%. So how are they hiding? How are they hiding? You know, so if you think about we don't even have the ability to do something with a DNA like they, like whatever this is, it's some making a hybrid. Right. Okay. So something far greater than us has learned to manipulate DNA. And if you think that bigfoot is interdimensional, then wherever that came from probably makes a whole lot more sense scientifically than something organically made here. And there is, therein lies the reason that we've haven't found a body. It can move in and out like it did through that tube, it's gonna walk a ranch. And there's footage in our movie of what appears to be a bigfoot evaporating into nothingness. What footage is this? Sounded by Scott Carpenter. What is it called? What's the same one that we're just talking about? American Sasquatch. Can we see that footage? Where is that in the film? It's during my interview with Scott. And so who took this footage? Scott. And what year was this taken? Sometime in the last 10 years, okay. And it shows something evaporating, like that there's, it looks like a bigfoot evaporating it and nothing. What you see is something kind of like smokiness, looking down a trail. And then it slowly evolves to look like something that you and I would call a bigfoot. Okay. So what you're saying is that we're not dealing with a standard biological organism. We're dealing with something that's probably the product of some advanced species. And that they've created this thing and this thing has the ability to move in ways and appear and reappear in ways that don't make any sense to us. Correct. Well, that would make sense, if it was true, and again, putting that fucking tin foil hat on tight right now. That would make sense if you think about how many sightings there are. And that there are no bones and there's no body, no one's found anything, there's nothing. There has been footprints, the footprints are weird. So I'd like to dismiss the footprints, like, oh, come on, somebody just like made a fake footprint. The problem is there's dermal ridges on these footprints. Some of them exhibit what's very similar to. fingerprints. And that's very strange. And these are going back decades. So super hard to reproduce something like that. And you would have to be a very, very advanced person and have some sort of incredible ability to manipulate material science just to be able to create something that recreates a dermal ridge and then use it and make footprints with it that are similar to what like a creature would make. It was very heavy moving to the ground and pressing down on moist ground or mud and leaving footprints that have fingerprints in it. It's weird because these are not, it's not something like, you know, I weigh like 205 pounds or something like that. Like it's not like that. It's like something that weighs like 700 pounds. Like deep into the ground. It's weird. Abnormally heavy. Yeah. Abnormally having large feet, but again, no bones, no nothing. And the only DNA, it's like, you know, this, it's disputed. But of course, people are going to dispute everything. No one's going to look at it and go, this is definitely not human. You know, they're going to go, well, who did this? How'd she do it? You know, oh, this is a lab that's like not doing it well and they're publishing in some journal behind a paywall. This is nonsense. But then you have to think, well, okay, but are any other reputable labs, these reputable labs, are they interested in doing this work? Have they done the work? Have they taken the same stuff and done it through the exact same process, but not found the same results that she had or is there no other studies? Seems like there's no other legitimate studies of the same DNA. Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified labs. One of them was University of Texas. And all of those labs got the same result. She extracted it. They did the analysis. She did the comparison at GenBank. And she did this all herself or she had other scientists do it. So she wrote a white paper and six different PhDs wrote it. The slam job there, I think it's interesting because have you heard of an organization called BFRO? No. Biggest organization in the United States for Bigfoot sightings. Oh, okay. Bigfoot research organization. Yeah. Yeah. I'm from finding Bigfoot. Right. Right. So a man named Wally Hirschem was their benefactor. He gave him millions of dollars over the years. And they had one job. Find DNA. 10, 15 years. They said they couldn't find it. We found it in less than a year. Wally came over when we had the DNA and looked at the results met with Dr. Ketchum. Said, I am completely done. You guys have proven to me exactly what it is. I now know what it is. Pulled all of his funding at that point. He was out of the Bigfoot world. And he goes, you guys did what nobody else could do. How come there's no good camera trap photos? You know, like there's a lot of trail cameras out there that hunters use. How come there's no good trail cam photos? Do you think the ideas that these things know that cameras are there? So I think they have that ability to look in the infrared range. And they just stay away. Well, if they are from somewhere else, and you know, we're assuming they're primitive because they're covered in hair. But what if they have some sort of psychic ability or some sort of intellect beyond what we would attach to an ape? And they understand what cameras are. So do you know what the hitchhiker effect is? No. So it's skin walker ranch. The investigators coming on to that ranch. When they left and they went home, they took those entities home with them. And the entities didn't ever bother the scientists. They bothered the relatives, the wives. They did spooky things. They'd come around, show up in the home, chase the kids around in the yard. What kind of entities? A variety of things. Sometimes orbs, sometimes silhouettes of people. But things that never happened before happened after these scientists went home. And they talked about it on their show. And it's happened a lot. One of the things that happens to people that study Bigfoot is they have the same hitchhiker effect. It doesn't matter where you go. For some reason, and you were talking about, you know, maybe they read your mind or something, there's some kind of effect there that they'll follow you wherever you go. As an example, I live kind in the middle of nowhere. And there's big woods behind my house. And I was walking behind the house one day. One track, middle of a muddy trail. No other tracks anyplace else. Seventeen inches. Just one track. I can't tell you how many times other friends of mine and researchers have had the exact same thing happen. In the movie, I interviewed, I think, seven or eight researchers, all the best ones. They all say, this has happened to them. It's that hitchhiker effect that they talk about at Skinwalker Ranch, which goes to the point of it being something extra-dimensional. I went to Skinwalker Ranch for my friend Duncan a few years back. I was doing this show for the sci-fi channel called Joe Rogan Questions Everything. And one of the things we did was we went to Skinwalker Ranch. And we talked to a bunch of people there. And, you know, some of them were just clearly full shit. But there was this one guy who was not. And he didn't have a lot of stories. But he said there was this one experience that he had where these orbs made it into his house. And this orb flew through his wall, was inside of his home. And it seemed like it was interacting with him. And then it was like paused, frozen in front of him, and then took off. This guy seemed like a completely rational, regular guy. He, like I said, he didn't have a bunch of crazy stories about other things. I forget what his job was, but it was a regular job. Regular guy seemed totally normal to talk to. But he said he had this one inexplicable experience. He said it was very strange. He said this thing just flew into his home. He said it was like, I think he said it was like the size of a softball, maybe a little larger. So, one of the people I interviewed for the movie was a former Navajo Ranger. You ever hear of those? Yes. So, they went to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, full law enforcement credentials, super smart guy. He comes back, he works 10, 15 years for the Navajo Rangers. One day the lieutenant calls him in, he and his partner, they say, you got a new assignment. Oh, what's that? You're going to do nothing but investigate Bigfoot and UFOs. I'd be like, fuck yeah. He goes, I don't want to, I didn't sign up for that. He goes, I don't care. That's your new job. Because you guys are the two most credible people I have, you're going to go do that. Well, because why? They had some sort of a suspicion. They had tons of calls about Bigfoot being on the property, UFOs showing up over property, all the above. Okay. And they wanted some expertise in that team. So, he and his friend started investigating Bigfoot. And all of the things I've just told you happened to him and his partner over those years. Big, they'd get a call at a lady's house that she just saw Bigfoot on her back porch. All the dogs are afraid. They're hiding under the porch. He goes there and he finds a track and it's straight line. One thing about Bigfoot, as you and I would walk down a street, we walk staggeredly. Bigfoot walks one foot right in front of the other. And that's how you'll know it's real. Doesn't walk staggered like you and my. It walks like it's doing a DUI checkpoint. Exactly. Yes. Like it's walking on a balance beam. And he talked about the stride was four or five feet. He goes, I couldn't do it. And just like you were saying that the track was so deep in the soil, they couldn't match it. He said, it had been hundreds and hundreds of pounds. That's just one thing. But over the years, they started to make this association between Bigfoot and UFOs. They did this all on their own. And then he talked about the Native American belief. Native Americans believe that they came from the stars. Each tribe does. And just like you said, all of the tribes have a different name for these. But nobody, no tribe believes it's an animal. Really? No tribe believes it's an animal. What do they think it is? It's a human. It's an offshoot. They think it came from the stars. They came from the stars. There's a very, very famous set of stories coming out of the Pacific Northwest out of the 1920s and 30s, where a tribe of Native Americans hear that there's some people walking down a trail through the woods. Bigfoot walks in front of him, starts throwing rocks at him, doesn't hit him, throwing rocks at him. The people go home, they tell the sheriff, "Hey, these huge hairy things are throwing rocks at us." Sheriff's is, "Oh, that's, that's a bee."
will go out there, will kill them all. The tribe here is about this, and Joe, it makes no sense. They have a press conference, swears I'm talking to you. And three tribes in the Pacific Northwest have a press conference, and it's in the Oregonian newspaper on the front page. When I found it, I said, "How come no other bigfoot researchers ever talked about this? Why?" Because it doesn't support their belief system, that it's in, they think it's in April or Gorilla, and here the tribe say it's a tribe of people. We've traded with them at times. What? They trade things with us at times. They give you back. Sometimes they will give them ornaments or certain kinds of foods that they have a tough time getting, and they will come back and they will give them certain kinds of food, animals, etc. But in this story on the front page of the Oregonian, they talk about this. And when I've gone to the Pacific Northwest, and Joe, there's not one tribe up there that believes they're an animal. None of them do. And they're the ones that have lived with them and handed these stories down over the ages. And they all think that they come from somewhere else? Yes. How do they think they got here? What's there like origin story? So there's a man who owned a herd of cattle and was wintering them on the Oregon, California border, up north of Crescent City. And every year he'd done this, this one year, this is another article in the paper, this one year, they winner with the Native Americans there. He sees this Native American walking with a tray of food. Doesn't think much of it the first day. Second day, he sees the guy walk up into the mountains up to this cliff area. The guy comes back and he says, "Hey, what's that for?" He goes, "I can't talk to you about that." So he goes straight to the chief. He owns all the cattle. He's working with the Native Americans. He goes to the chief. The chief goes, "We've got Harry Moon up there. Harry Moon." He goes, "Yeah, this thing came and it comes every couple months. There's usually two of them that come together." And he goes, "Well, what do you mean?" He says, "We see a moon come out of the sky. It's very bright. It comes down near the land. And these two jump out of the moon and they're friendly. They get along with us and they stay there and we feed them sometimes." So that was in like 1885 newspaper. And you think about that story, how else would they describe an orb say? There's no other way to describe it back then. Right. It comes down. These things jump out of it and they run into the woods. And the Native Americans have been dealing with them for all these years. That's really the story. Wow. Now the rational part of me, of course, wants to call bullshit. But the part that's willing to speculate, again, if so many people are having this very similar experience with this tall, hairy, ape-like thing in the woods. You got to wonder, like, why is it the same thing? Like, why is it over and over again? And why do Native Americans have so many different names for this? And then when again, they don't have a bunch of mythical animals. It's not like they have tons of these like weird things that no one's ever seen before. The dragons. No. Just one thing. What do they do? They do have these things called little people. Fear to those? What are those? That's very odd. Something that kind of looks like you and me. But they're only about three feet tall. And they look like miniature kind of like dwarves. Well, people have those experiences when they do mushrooms. Do you know that there's a specific mushroom that, when you take it, everyone sees little tiny people? I didn't know that. Yeah. This is a, there was a recent article about this. You can find that, Jamie. There's one very specific type of hallucinogenic mushroom where when you take it universally, everyone experiences little tiny people, like little, like, you know, elves from ancient stories. I mean, what do you, why is that so common? Like, what is that? They saw them on their dishes when eating. The mushrooms that make people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans. Now, we're saying hallucinate. But we don't, if everyone's seen the same exact vision, that's very strange. Every year, doctors at a hospital in the Yunnan province of China, brace themselves for an influx of people with an unusual complaint. The patients come in with strikingly odd symptom. Visions of pint-sized, elf-like figures, marching under doors, crawling up wells, and clinging to furniture. The hospital treats hundreds of these cases every year. I'll share a common culprit. I don't know, say this. Lamau. Lamau. Azeatica. Azeatica. Oh, okay. Azeatica. Dura. Lamau. Whatever it is. Lan. L-A-N-M-A-O-A. Azeatica. A type of mushroom that forms symbiotic relationships with the pine trees in nearby forests and is locally popular food known for its savory umami-pack flavor. In Yunnan, L-Azeatica is sold in markets. It appears on restaurant menus and is served at home during peak mushroom season between June and August. One must be careful to cook it thoroughly, though. Otherwise, the hallucinations will set in. Or don't cook it at all, pussy. Come on. Don't you want to see the elves? Why would you, why would you cook it? Outside of Yunnan and a couple other places, this strange mushroom is largely an enigma. There are many accounts of the existence of this psychedelic mushroom and many people who looked for it, but they never found the species. Says Juliana Furchi, a mycologist and the founder and executive of the fungi federation, a nonprofit group dedicated to discovering documenting and conserving fungi. This person, Dom Nair, Dom Nower, is on a quest to solve the decades-old mystery about this fungi species and identify the unknown compound responsible for its unusually similar hallucinations as well as what it can potentially teach us about the human brain. You know, the thing is like, is it teaching us something about the human brain? Or is it allowing you to see something that's actually there all the time? What's at the bottom of that? Liliputian? I was going to show you, oh, when I typed it in the perplexity, there's at least one. Ooh. Type of Choctaw, I have something. Yeah. Says many indigenous nations have their own name for little people and the English phrase is just a loose umbrella term. Each language has specific words that usually means something like little people dwarves or forest people. The Cherokee have it, ooh, what's that word? Yoon-Wee, Suns die, usually translated as little people. Choctaw, they have another crazy word, little people, and forest-welling type called Kawi Anu Kasha, or forest-weller. Chicksaw have them for little people, small supernatural beings. Yeah, there's so many of these things, like- Forest medicinal plants. Uh-huh, describes a little person who provides corn and medicinal plants. Well, many, many, many people who have taken mushrooms see little tiny people, see little elves, and in fact, you know, that is a core part of the Santa Claus mystery. You know, Santa Claus, have you ever seen the relationship between Santa Claus and a mushroom called the Aminita Mascaria? Do you know that whole thing? Yeah. But one of the weird things about Santa Claus is if you go back and look at old Christmas art, like Christmas art from the turn of the century, all of it has Aminita Mascaria Mushrooms in it, and elves. It's very weird that you would connect Christmas with elves and a known hallucinogenic mushroom, and that these little elves and these big mushrooms are all together and it's Merry Christmas. See if you can find some of those old, they're really weird, because it's like, well, how did we forget that and how did that go away? And there's also the way Santa Claus looks himself. Santa Claus with his red outfit, with his bright red outfit, with the white cuffs and the white buttons, the mushroom itself is bright red with white spots on it. Like, look at these. Look how weird that is. Look, Santa Claus with psychedelic mushrooms. Gotta be careful a little bit now, because we've talked about that some of it has to have been created. Oh yeah, 100%. We fucked up the whole world. That's brand new. Is it brand new? That's not vintage. Look at that looks awesome. He sure made it. Yeah, it's on Etsy. Oh yeah, probably, but some of the old ones are real. The one in the middle is legit. Like, that one's legit right there that you just put up there, and that one's from somewhere else. Look at that. How crazy is that? I wrote an article for my website. Santa Claus was a mushroom a long time ago.
I'm gonna go about this. And I probably fucked up the whole algorithm. But if you look at these images, these are ancient images that the one that you had up there with the foreign language on it, where it says psychedelic, yeah, that one. Like how weird is that? That these little elves are carrying these giant psychedelic mushrooms with them. And they're walking off with it. And this has to do with Christmas, how? Why does Christmas have to do with psychedelic mushrooms? The question is, are these compounds, are you hallucinating when you take these compounds? Or is it opening up your vision to see things that are there all the time anyway? - Good question. - Right. And like how many people have gone and taken mushrooms in the woods and seen Bigfoot? It's another question. Like how many people have taken psychedelic compounds that dissolve the ego, completely put you in a different space in terms of your head space, and then you're able to see things perhaps that are there all the time anyway. The Bigfoot one is so weird 'cause I always wanted to dismiss it. The rational part of me wants to go, oh, shut up, it's all nonsense. I go back and forth with Bigfoot. And then the other part of me goes, too many people. Too many people see the same thing. Too many people have had that. They can't all be crazy or liars. They can't all be. And if they're not, then like, what is that thing? And why is there no dead body? Why is there, well maybe because it's not the same as we are. Maybe it comes from somewhere else. And maybe that is the whole experience, that the whole experience is weird, and that you really can't quantify it. You can't talk about it the same way you talk about like, oh, you know, I know we're a sloth lives. You know, it's like it's a different kind of a creature. So I've been around some people that say, they believe that we're part of a simulation. And part of that simulation is, you get enough coins, and you can drop in a new entity in the game that can screw with you. (laughing) Oh boy, hey, you get the right mushrooms. You see little people crawling up your chair. (laughing) Or let's see how this guy handles a Bigfoot walking in front of him. Right, yeah. See how much his blood pressure goes up. Right, yeah. Well, it's also whatever we're doing in this as a human being, going through this life, you know, you have a certain understanding of what's real and what's not real and what to expect and what not to expect. Based on your life experiences, based on what everybody else is telling you about the world around you, and you kind of categorized everything into what's real and what you're gonna experience walking through this world. But just what we know about the material world is so bizarre, just what we know about subatomic particles, just what we know about the very nature of matter itself, that's all energy condensed in different weird ways and that most of what atoms are is empty space and that a particle, like subatomic particle, can appear and disappear. We don't know where they're going. They can be both moving. They can be moving and still at the same time. They can be in a place of superposition. Like what are we talking about with just reality itself? Reality itself, the lowest observable, the smallest, the deepest we can look at it, it's fucking magic. Like reality itself is magic. And then you have the weirdness of the observer effect that when you pay attention to particles, they behave differently. - That's right. - And that there's some sort of research that shows that we somehow or another, we can actually affect particles in the past. Like quantum physicists talk about this, not cooks like me, but quantum physicists talk about that there's some sort of evidence that the observer effect can affect things in the past. Well, how far in the past? If it's only a few seconds, is it a millisecond? And what is it limited to that or is it not? Like is it the whole world flexible? Is everything malleable? Is everything dependent upon consciousness? And then what is consciousness? Is it simply what's in between your ears? Or are you tuning in to consciousness? And it's just the limitations of your radio that's making the world around you shape into the form that you currently see. And maybe that is why when you add things to that radio, like psychedelic mushrooms, like the ones that make you see the little people or the ones that make you see elves at Santa Claus, you know, I think we get real arrogant when we talk about what reality is. Especially when we know from our understanding of reality, that reality, again, at its quantum state is essentially insane and impossible. It's magic. Friend of mine the other day said, hey, Dave, why don't you go with me? I'm going to go do ayahuasca again. He's done it a few times. And he says, Dave, it'll open up your mind to things that you just don't understand that are real. And he goes, I've done it a couple times. I've had replicate seeing the same thing multiple, multiple times that I know I could never see without it. Have you ever done it? I have not done ayahuasca, but ayahuasca is the orally active form of DMT. And I've done that. Yeah. Is your experience positive? Yeah, I've never had a negative experience, but it is very strange. And it feels more real than reality itself. And you are 100% communicating with creatures, some beings, things that are, they appear to be living geometric patterns I've had multiple experiences with gestures, with things that look like gestures, where they're giving me the finger. And they were basically telling me that I take myself too seriously. They were like, fuck you. And then I was like, what? And then I was like, oh, I get it. And they're like, right. They were like telling me like, yeah, yeah. You take yourself too seriously. I was like, oh, you're right, you're right. Yeah, you have to be very careful with the experience because if you're a control freak, if you can't just let go, you can lose your marbles. You can really go crazy. And it's not really recommended to anybody that has a slippery hold on reality already. Like people with psychiatric conditions and people that are already kind of fucked up. But if you're reasonably stable and you are calm and rational and you can just let go, it is a wild experience. It's a wild experience that should not be illegal and should probably be studied and understood. What was the guy that we had on recently, Jamie, the guy who was doing Andrew Gala Moore? How do you say his name? Who was doing those, they're setting it up on a country where it's legal and they're doing IV DMT trips that last like five hours. And these people, they go and they have this experience and when they do it, they all encounter similar places, similar beings and similar patterns. Like they come back with very similar stores. Like they're making a map of the territory of whatever this is that you're doing. And they all have the exact same way of describing it, which is similar to where I described it before I ever heard of any of this, is that it feels more real than reality itself. Reality itself seems very dull and very slushy and not crisp, if that's the way to say it. Whereas the DMT experience is very vivid. The colors are insanely bright. The experience that you get by encountering whatever these creatures seems way more powerful than any kind of experience that you have in normal everyday consciousness. So does that drug open some kind of door or receiver or transfer? - It's a great color to drug. But the problem with calling it a drug is the human brain makes it. So Terence McKenna had a great line. He said if DMT is a drug, everyone's holding. Because you get to make something illegal that's produced by the human body. Like we know for a fact it's produced in the brain. We know for a fact that the mind actually makes this compound which is the most potent psychedelic compound known to man. It's very weird when the human mind, the human brain rather makes a psychedelic compound that's the most potent compound known to man. Not just that, but it exists in thousands of different plants. The problem is when we eat them, it gets broken down in our gut by monoamine oxidase. Like there's a bunch of different, like, falaris grass is very rich in it, the accacia tree is very rich in it. In fact, there's some scholars from Jerusalem that believe that the story of Moses in the burning bush was Moses burning the accacia bush which has DMT in it and experiencing God. Which completely tracks, if you think about it, like this is what the experience feels like. It feels like you're dealing with an all-powerful entity that's filled with love and understanding and knows you better than you
know yourself and gives you guidelines on how to live life and that Moses came back from this experience with these commandments, how to live life, that we all agree today. We look at those commandments like these are very reasonable, makes a lot of sense. So sometimes I'm sitting in my desk and I've got my dog laying next to me and the dogs looking down the hallway at my kitchen and I've got a great pair of knees and she's just laying there looking, then like one every four or five days she'll just jump up at like 10 o'clock at night and start growling at something down the hall, little people. I don't know what it is, she see something we don't see, so are they always there? It's a good question and what can the animals see that we can't because they definitely see things that we can, they experience things that I mean their senses are so different than ours. We just assume that we both live in the same world but we clearly don't. Dogs live in a different world than us. The world that they experience is rich with smells and sounds and they hear things and they smell things that we couldn't even imagine what they are. The weird thing about DMT is that someone figured out in the Amazon thousands of years ago, who don't even know when, how to make this plant orally active. What they did is they took the leaves of one plant and the roots of the other. One of the plants contains dimethyltrip to mean and the other one contains harming which is an MAO inhibitor, monoamine oxidase inhibitor. This MAO inhibitor allows DMT to be orally active whereas if you just ate that plant the monoamine oxidase and your gut would break the plant down and you would never experience the DMT trip. Like how, how do they figure out how to do that? And you ask them, they tell them the plants told them how to do it. Yeah. Right. Like what? But when you think about people that were living in this incredibly rich life filled jungle for thousands and thousands and thousands of years and with no contact with the Western world as we know it today, right? So this is thousands of years ago. They're living in, they have the subsistence lifestyle, living with animals and plants and fish and they probably are deeply in tune with the jungle and deeply in tune with the wildlife and the plants in a way that we can't even possibly understand. And that we've probably dulled all those senses or they've atrived to a point, you know, where we just assume that everybody sees the world the way we do and I don't think those people did or do 100% they all have, they all talk about experiences with entities from somewhere else too. Yes. Yeah. It's a very weird world out there and that's why, you know, when someone tells a story about being abducted by a craft from another dimension, it's so easy to just dismiss them. It's so easy to just throw it all away. But I mean, I was watching Fox News yesterday where they were talking about the different kinds of entities that the United States government has encountered. Did you see that? I saw it. Like, have you seen it? Did you see that, Jimmy? But I've been waiting to see it. I'll show you this thing that was part of the movie. He shows it on the, I have it on the screen. That's the box, if you will, the transparent box that Carl, who we talked about earlier, was taken into. Oh, Jesus. Were he used to, once he was in there? Hold this box. I gotta pee. We'll come right back and we'll talk about this box. I gotta pee real bad. We're back. We're back. All right. So we were at this portal thing this guy. So he had this transparent, which I would say is like, you know, transparent cube. This is what he described. He probably could have his fear in there. Yes. So he said he described that showing up and a six foot tall figure came out and, with a black jump suit to come there, but said telepathically come with me. He got in it and there he saw his targeted elk frozen in beams of light alongside five figures. Human-like figures that seemed more spectral than a live stiff, unblinking, like passengers in stasis. And then the ship shifted and took him 163,000 light years away and he ended up on a tower on an alien planet where they fixed all of his ailments, a tower on an alien planet under a violet sky. Yeah. And then they said like, they're not, you're not suitable. They don't. We can't use you. Sorry. Because of his, because he's got no jizz. And then he was found miles away, sort of just like how Travis Wallace found. Whoa. With no secession later revealed more, what's his name? Aosso? Aosso. Oh, that's the, I can quote, alien, that would be the entity. Are you so one? Okay. Yeah. Kind. We're experimenting on humans and animals, possibly for genetic or dimensional purposes. Carl's truck was found miles away in impassable terrain, embedded in mud with him inside, babbling about lights and voices. And impassable terrain. Whoa. So there's a bunch of, I mean, his truck was just placed in a place where it couldn't get to. Correct. There's a bunch of pictures that I don't know if, I'm imagining he drew some of these because in that video. No, bro, those are photos. No, that's, that's, that's he holds up this photo. So I think he drew this right so that he's an older man and drew what he remembered. So a little bit of Lee. Oh, so he drew the one there and then someone did an artist recreation. Oh, look at that. It's weird, like weird arm, like a knife for an arm or something. So he, he said he thought that those were almost robotic. Interesting. Well, that kind of makes sense, right? That eventually being, this is the photos of the bullet. It kind of makes sense that eventually we would realize like, why would we travel places but we could just make like an artificial person to do it and report back to us everything? Why, why risk a human's life? 100%. You don't have to do, but that's what Elon's doing to the moon. He's going to send the robots up to make the stuff on the moon way easier than the people. Of course. You don't need a day. They don't need air. That makes sense why he's canceling the Model S and, you know, the, in the X. Get to work. Yeah. Get those Optimus Robe because he's, he's transformed some of his factories. They've, they've stopped the Model S and the Model X and they're using it to make these Optimus robots instead that factory. And then these robots are going to fly to the moon. So if we had that idea, no one else like, you know, of course, no one else has had that same thing. Yeah. Of course, it makes sense. So he, he got a sense that this was a robot. Yes. A lot of people have also said that about the grays that they get the sense that they're not really an actual physical, like a, or a biological organism, that there's some sort of a hybrid thing or some sort of a, whatever. The thing that got me about that is that if it's robotic, but it still has the ability to mind speak. That is really advanced. Yeah. Well, I mean, we have to figure out what consciousness is, right? And what communication is. And if, if there's something you could tune it, you could, you know, you could have a robot that could speak out loud. So why can't you have a robot that transmits? Why couldn't, I mean, with sufficient enough technology, it kind of makes sense. You would have something that has the ability to transmit into your mind. So do you think, when you're studying all these different people missing, and like, do you try to put a percentage on how many of these people you think just got eaten by bears and how many of these people you think are having these kind of experiences? So if there's any evidence of animal predation, I don't even work with them, I just push them out. Right. Won't even look at the case. You're only looking at the cases that are super weird. They fit that, no animals can track, can't, and can't track. Right. They bring in a professional tracker, they can't track. There's a weather issue in relationship to the disappearance. Sometimes the people are found next to water or amongst a boulder field, and there's another one, Joe, boulder fields. Now if you think about where's the most boulders and granite, it's your semidivali. And what goes through the middle of your semidivali? Water. It's a dead river. And that area specifically, that's a hard valley to get lost in, but yet how do these people get lost? And we're not talking about people going into the backcountry, we're talking about people getting lost in your semidivali that disappear and aren't found. And there's a couple of cases, probably 10 cases that are just absolutely bizarre. There's a case that was investigated by your semidiv investigators back 40 years ago as a woman came out, and they found her body so far away from a cliff that they said their words she was launched. So it's like if you jumped or you fell, you could only go so far from the cliff. Right. She was found too far from the cliff, and they called it launched, but they couldn't understand how she got that far. Not possible with a gust of wind? No, not far away. That's all that that's that was their wording that she had to have been launched. Right. And Norm, I've never seen that wording before in any park service report.
they're usually very conservative in the way they discuss things and so this aligns with this idea that they get dropped correct that's already disturbing that aliens would do that to us just drop us like i would think that if they're going to abduct you hey place me back in my bed so pay attention when the next time you see a story about somebody being abducted a lot of times they're dropped in their bed they're not placed they're dropped um how many of these people that go missing like this under weird circumstances die versus just disappear forever i would say that it's probably 40% 50% are never found i would say that maybe half of that half that's left 25 25 split between alive and dead but you find out a lot more about the case if you get the body back because the body sometimes will show things that doesn't make any sense at all a lot of times the person will disappear and it's an 80 degree day we talk about that point of separation you go on this way i'm going to the right and a hundred yards from where i last saw you there's a pile of clothes there and you think and well it's 80 degrees out why is there a pile of clothes is underwear is socks it shoes everything pile right there he's never found where do you go why would you take all this clothes off people would say well you know he it's hypothermia and there's a condition where you take all your clothes off not an 80 degree weather not an 80 degree weather not that fast it doesn't happen and so missing clothing missing shoes are part of this that don't make any sense if you're in the woods you're on a trail and i could take your shoes off it's all very weird does anybody ever have an experience where they go and they get abducted and then they ask what happens to some of these people how many people do you do this to that it must have happened but i don't know if they've ever gotten a response from it has anybody ever asked how many people do you abduct how many people have you taken like this i'm sure they've asked but i'm not sure that they would have gotten an answer huh and then you know that there there's a theory out there that there's more than one type or one group taking people yeah well this is the fox news thing see if you could find that fox news report because it's kind of wacky because watching it on fox news you like is fox news all the sudden coast to coast with art belt like what what the hells happened because they were talking about the reptilians and the nordics the grays fox news tv like regular tv like what is going on here is that nonsense are they being fed nonsense or is this disclosure and are they slow trickling this out to us to get regular folks like boomers get them accustomed to this idea of there are entities out there what if they're just acclimating you to to the reality of our world and what if what if the truth is is that there's people around you that are aliens and you don't even know it i think elons are fucking alien it's only a thing makes sense i think i met a few aliens definitely joe t.s might be an alien there's a few people that i've met them like you're not real there's no way you're real but elons the top of my list like you don't even make sense like i've met a lot of people that are smarter than me i know i'm not the smartest guy but there's only a few people that are mad i'm like okay we're not even the same thing okay let's hear this this is what Dan from age of disclosure and that's one of people i interviewed in my film senior intelligence officials went on the record saying that there have been dozens of crashed craft of non-human origin over the years and elements of our government have recovered those those crashes and they've gotten out of that technology of non-human origin and in some cases non-human bodies that were on these on these craft a number of people might film go on the record saying that the bodies were not all the same type meaning there were multiple species were the bodies alive or were they dead the people in my film talked about events where they were they were dead bodies they were deceased bodies okay and yeah there's a lot of speculation about the amount of UFO information we've been given on this first tranche we expected more we know there is more why didn't you use that word before tranche have you ever used that word so hard to release more yeah so the president gave his directive in middle of February essentially instructing all federal agencies to declassify evidence of non-human intelligent life and uap what happened after that is uh. the white house had to go get that evidence out of the hands of all these federal agencies and they all they all for the most part push back uh. the people who have gate kept this information for eighty years they don't they don't want to share it you know they've they've gotten a lot of power and control over the years and it's just frankly not human nature for people to want to give up power and control so there's a tug of war happening behind the scenes there are a number of other reasons guiding their their desire to keep the secret including a general belief that the public can't handle the truth uh. i would argue the public can't handle the truth i think my my film shows that uh. people aren't watching it and jumping out of windows they're they're curious and they want to learn more uh. there's also a general feeling that uh. a concern that they can't tell the american public what they know and don't know without also telling our adversaries and giving them some sort of advantage um. but i think i think that that yeah that's good go back to that one weird one the beginning the black and white one that looks like a star they look like um that's been debunked i think that's what yeah oh how dare they that one yeah that's debunked yeah but this is one of the more recent ones that was released in this immense dump of information how's it been debunked uh. it's like i'm gonna debunk these debunkers fuck off that thing's awesome i want that thing to be real uh. yeah uh. that's Dan Farrah from uh. age of disclosure which if you haven't seen it folks amazing documentary very interesting you know it's a bunch of different people that have inside information that are talking about it and one here they're just debunking it the a pointed star refers to declassified 2013 infrared military video released as part of the government UFO files the footage was widely debated online and linked to alien or biblical origins however experts debunked the phenomenon explaining it is simply a distortion caused by a hot jet engines exhaust plume plume hitting a military infrared camera allegedly i prefer to believe that something else i don't know let me add another twist to this missing person thankful okay please so it's more of an evolution for me learning what could be happening in those woods and i started off in national parks and the most recent thing i've done missing for one one national parks washington state there's a case where a guy in two thousand six disappeared an olympic national park he was a former former army intelligence officer he uh. worked in israel he worked in africa he worked in a lot of different places spoke six languages and then he started to work in campaigns and he worked for a woman who is campaigning to be a congresswoman in washington state she lost she became the head of retirement services in the state of washington she brought him along as the assistant his name is gillbert gillman when i wrote the story up for my books he was supposed to show up at this meeting for her on a sunday he stopped off at olympic national park park this car was playing the music loud a ranger come by ask him to turn it down he turned it down he got out and he walked into the woods he never came back huge search he's never found that's all i really knew and i wrote it up like that can ends couldn't follow his track it disappeared blah blah blah then i interview we set up doing this thing for the movie interview in his relatives and i interview his girlfriend and his girlfriend said she saw him a month beforehand and she said a week before he disappeared he was trying to call me like he wanted to tell me something and i was busy and i couldn't talk to him and i knew he wanted to tell me something but then i put it up so something was wrong i didn't i never got to talk to him again so i started talking to her about his past and i said well did he ever work for the c_i_a_ and joe she goes i don't know if i can talk about that i said well i can't you talk about that well i don't i don't know i don't think i can so that means yes exactly so so she gets emotional she's upset she can't see him and then we go into the next room interview his mom and his mom says well david a lot of people don't know this that before he disappeared he i have a penthouse in Chicago
this woman's really wealthy and Gilbert has a bedroom there and he asked me to stack a couple books on his nightstand and he wrote something on a yellow pad on my coffee table in Arabic and I said how long was that sitting there and she goes well I went one week and he disappeared I never got to really look at it and then I flew to Washington so I don't know what he wrote so Joe here's the kicker I said well that's pretty strange and she goes no Dave what's really strange is I'm in Washington and we're doing this search for Gilbert and the people who run my townhouse my condominium she lives like the 30th floor call me and said two FBI agents were just here and they said they needed to get into your townhouse and I gave them the keys and I went into that they went into your townhouse and took some things I said Mrs. Gilman they can't do that I don't care what they say they need a search warrant to go in your house he can't give permission what was taken well I went back the yellow pad was gone and a couple of his personal things were gone so I said just doesn't make any sense why would the FBI go into your house to retrieve anything of Gilbert's if this is a missing person case and he has no relationship to the government and she goes well Dave you're asking what I've been thinking all along now this this happened 15 years before I and I interviewed her she's sharp as a tack girlfriend sharp as a tack and she says things haven't seemed right and she said I think I think he's alive somewhere so as she's saying all this my mind's racing and I'm thinking how many other people have disappeared in a national park under circumstances that I just heard from a girlfriend and the mom but I don't know about them because I haven't been able to interview their girlfriends and their moms and why wouldn't the park service give me the information on the report if it was a straight missing person case like this they would so really is there something more nefarious going on in the parks about taking people that they're in conjunction with some other body some other three-letter agency to make people go away so they're doing this on purpose with people that have information that's inconvenient or that's top secret that they don't want it being leaked somehow I had the feeling Gilbert knew I think I think it was all planned he knew they were going to take him yeah and I think he he agreed to go why do you think that because he left that pad with the with the writing in Arabic did he speak Arabic he spoke six languages and we don't know what he wrote down in Arabic no okay and she also said a peculiar thing I don't I'm sorry I don't remember the books but he asked her to get two books and put on the counter and she thought that that was a clue to what happened Dante's and Ferno might have been one of them and I forgot the other book but she said I I think that's a clue I just don't understand what he was trying to say huh but that's also not the first time something like this has happened where somebody disappeared and it was all pointing to the government in the 1950s there was a man that was going to Miami University he played in their band he was a wrestler for the varsity wrestling team he was an all-round guy one night he comes home to his dorm and strangely there's a fish in his bed and he asks the RA for new sheets she brings in new sheets he gets him changed make a long story short he disappears right after that that night so it's like that's the message that you're going to go that night or something I don't know so everything just looks like the guy disappeared from college except five months later the head of housing for Miami University or Miami Ohio is at a city 10 miles north of the Pennsylvania border in New York a little tiny city he and his wife are having dinner at a bed and breakfast and sitting across from him 10 feet away are three men at a table and he says I'm telling you that was Ron Taman that's the guy's name and he's talking to the wife and they keep keep looking at each other so they go out to the parking lot and he tells his wife I've got to go back in Ron's disappeared I've got to go talk to him so he goes back in and all three of the guys are gone all dressed in suits that was another indicator that the government had some something to do with the disappearance now Ron's family lived in LA they never saw Ron again never heard from him again but what do you think they're doing like why would they do that well the question I and I've talked to my team about this why would the government need you to separate yourself from the family under unusual circumstances what would be that point I don't understand if you wanted to go to work for government services why wouldn't you just do it the story about fish and rounds bed on Ronald Taman dot com this is the right guy yeah that's him says this was a prank someone confessed that to him in 2010 the fish was a prank to it says doesn't any confess to me the culprit behind the fish prank okay but still the guy disappeared thinking of it this way and these emotionally charged and divisive times when no one seems to agree on much of anything I present to you the one shining example of a core belief with with which all of humanity can surely agree at that time honored value is this no one in his or her right mind whatever knowingly sleep with a dead fish in their bed okay it depends on how tired you are okay this doesn't make any sense to me so when these guys just disappear like you think that he knew he was going to be taken Ron I don't know you don't know but the other guy that went into the woods you think you he knew I think Gilbert knew and how do you think he was taken that's a good question I don't know he might be a victim of a serial killer that someone else investigated on a TV show 10 12 oh that's completely BS why do you think that I if a serial killer killed him in the middle of the woods they would have found his body hmm I said that he put at least one maybe up to eight bodies a hundred feet at the bottom of the lake oh maybe he admitted to at least eight slangs before he died at age 34 oh didn't say he killed this guy but but he killed him in that area yeah oh well that's possible that that would be why they didn't find the body they should have found tracks to a kill site they would have found evidence right it would probably have found some blood and remember they were they were on that from the day he disappeared and they were they had dogs yeah they would have found blood correct unless they strangled them well even if they would have strangled them there would have been so many people in that area that guy would have been seen at least really how was this like wooded you're talking about a lake you sure they've been seeing a small parking lot not a big area right this isn't like a real big parking lot a real big church guy has done this to a bunch of people for sure not not right there no no okay the guy who disappeared and went to the woods and you you think that guy what was his name again Ron Tammon no the other guy the guy that that disappeared and went to the woods Gilbert Gilman yeah yeah when when that guy disappeared which is which is Gilbert this is the serial killer one yeah okay the the guy that you said parked his car and went to the woods and you think that he knew that he was going to be taken yeah what do you think happened when he went to the woods I think somehow they had some extraction method and who knows what that is he was he was wearing Bermuda shorts flip flops he wasn't somebody that was going for a hike that was the other indicator he was wearing like a Hawaiian shirt even the ranger said she thought that the him playing the loud music was a signal that was a signal for her to come over and acknowledge that he was there okay so he planned his disappearance maybe or he wanted her to see her there see him there that was the indicator do you ever wondered like if you're losing your marbles studying all these different things you know what I mean like you're you're going over so many different cases so many cookie circumstances and different people disappearing that your your whole perspective on this stuff gets a little weird I would say so except I wrote this up as just a standard every day missing person case these weren't my beliefs that's these were the beliefs of right the girlfriend and the mom and I have to say that the FBI going to that house is completely outside the realm of anything
normal. Yeah that's very bizarre and also taking the legal pad with the Arabic writing on it and the books. Yeah. It's very weird. But I mean who knows what that's all about. That seems to have something to do with the government. Whereas some of these things seem to have something to do with either extraterrestrials or interdimensional things or. Correct. A lot of weirdness in this world, David. I think our world is much more complex than we think. Yeah, I would agree with you. Just like humanity. Everyone's there's a lot of complex people for sure. Well certainly the people that have access to this information like the stuff that Dan Farah was talking about like imagine the mind of a person. Let's assume that there are really extraterrestrial bodies somewhere and let's assume that there are recovered crafts and that these people are like Bob's are really have been back engineering. Don't you imagine being one of those people. One of this select group of people a small amount that have information that's completely different from what the rest of the world has about the reality in which we exist in. That we share this reality with things that have technology that is beyond our comprehension. They can do things that we can't even imagine and that these people all know it's real and that they're holding on to this information. They don't think we can handle it. I mean the radio shows I've been on and the people I've talked to have said the same thing about me and missing people. It's been a revelation that this many people are missing in our woods that are unaccounted for and our government want to acknowledge it. Acknowledging it by releasing a list, releasing the documents. Why can't we see them? But you could attribute that to sheer incompetence like the people that are running the parks and working for it like you know you get bad investigators in all sorts of I mean you're a cop you know about all that. Let's go out with this guy. From two years ago Gil's mother thinks he might have disappeared to be a spy for the U.S. government and it's still alive and their authorities say that's possible. What? He had a long history as he said he was an interrogator and knew six different languages were for the UN. It said when he went missing he had survival skills from his military training. He was a paratrooper. And he just he had a camera on him was apparently all he had. So they could have staged his disappearance so that they could position him somewhere else. People would think he's dead. You give him a told you new identity. Now he's working undercover somewhere. Yeah. Well I would imagine that's possible. I would imagine like if you wanted someone to work for you and you say you know this person's gonna work undercover in some top secret mission. Okay but you've got to disappear. You got to disappear from regular life so that we can give you this new identity. We can't just have you know your friends looking for you. We have to move you to some of the new part of the world. So Joe if you were me and you were sitting across from his mom that's really something vile I think to do to your parent. Oh for sure. Terrific. She was. She was a broken human. Yeah. No that's terrible. And I asked her I said there's a good chance. Gilbert's somewhere in the world watching this. What do you want to say to him? She said Gilbert just please come home. She was like an 88 year old woman then. Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. No that's brutal. And well that's a very different thing we're talking about. That's not a fun thing. No. The fun things. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's the fun stuff. I got off tractor. No but I mean look I get it because you're dealing with like a wide swath like a bunch of different kinds of encounters and different things. You know. The those. Yeah. That's dark. So do you know much about Mount Rainier? Not much. No. So do you know that the original UFO period of time started with a UFO sighting. Kind of Arnold. Right. Yeah. So do you know that when Arnold do you know what Arnold was doing when he was flying around? No. So six months prior to that three transport Marine transports were flying from El Toro Marine Base into Seattle. Boom one after the other. They hit bad weather. One of those planes came around and they lost it. Arnold there was like a huge reward if you could find it. Arnold was flying by Rainier looking at the mountain trying to see if you could find it. And these things went by long story short months later they found the transport had crashed into the side of Rainier. First of all do you know that the Marines never took one body off of there? Did they recover the vehicle? The the the crowd? No. No. They didn't recover anything. They left it there. They left it there. Was it because the extractions too difficult? That's what they said. Isn't that possible? I guess so. I mean if it's not traversable they can't get in there. But they did get in there. They did. They did. They said they got in there. They saw bodies but it was too dangerous to remove any and they left them on the side of the mountain. So that's the reason that Arnold was there. A lot of people don't know that. And when he saw those things fly by him at an extraordinary pace he said hey that's nothing that no planes we have and there were multiple ones he saw go by. Now since that time Mountain Baker and Mount Rainier have had dozens of UFO sightings and if you look at the dispersion of people who have disappeared on Rainier it's most of them aren't way up here on the mountain. They're down here at the bottom. And when we put that in the movie people couldn't believe how many people there are missing. How many people? There's probably at least 15 that have never been found. And it makes no sense. And are they all hikers or what hikers photographers. One kid worked for Alaska Airlines. He went into the woods like every week because he lived near Rainier. And on his days off he took pictures of the mountain and panorama shots. And some of his photos actually made it into the National Parkhead quarter. So that good. He went up to take pictures one day. He has a tripod, real nice camera. He disappears. They search for him for 10 days, bringing canines, everything. They can't find anything of him. Now this is one of those cases where let's say there was bear predation. There may be nothing left of him but the tripod will be there forever. The camera is there forever. His boots, his belt, but they never found anything. There was a medical doctor that disappeared just recently within the last couple years hiking in that same area. A giant loop backpacking. I think he was 34 years old. Absolute genius guy. Came from UC Berkeley. Just recently moved up to Seattle. Took a new job. But went on a backpacking loop there. He disappeared, never found nothing. But it's repeatedly this big search. Find nothing. No tracks. No scent trail. No evidence of them being there. In the same area where there's dozens of sightings. Yes. But if you wanted to get abducted, that's the place to go. If you really want to find out what's going on. Have you ever thought about, have you ever seen anything yourself? As far as what? As far as like something that looks like it's from another planet. We've seen Orbs and UFOs many times. Many times? Yes. Have you taken photos of them or anything? We have some. Got good ones? There's a lot of really good Orb photos out there. And so that's not unusual. I think the. After what I've seen, after I've made five documentaries now. I've seen 12 and 14 and 15 year olds do things with special effects that if you watched it on film. Right. You would know if it was real or not. Well, certainly today. Yeah. Today, I mean, all beds are off. You really can't tell what's real and what's not real. That's why somebody who sends me a big-foot photo or UFO. I don't even watch it because you can't tell what's real anymore. Right. You'd have to go all the way back for me to film, actual film. And then I'll look at it. Well, David, thank you very much for being here. It's certainly a very interesting subject. I can't imagine what your brain is like having studied this for all these many years. You got a very weird version of the world that we live in because you've been inundated by this stuff for decades. But I think there's something there. I don't know what it is. Do you? I have to wait for that for maybe round two. Okay. Round two. Well, thank you very much. Thanks. I'll tell everybody where they can find your work, where they can watch your documentaries. My two most recent movies, Missing Four One One, National Parks, Washington State, is on Amazon. American Sasquatch, Man, Myth, or Monster is on Amazon. And then you can watch my three movies for free on 2B. And that is Missing Four One One. That's the number one Missing Four One.
411-the-hunted, and missing 411-the-UFO connection. And my website is missing411.com, and it has all my books. - All right. Thank you very much. - Well, thank you, Bill. - My pleasure. - Bye, bye. (upbeat music)
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
David began investigating missing persons cases after a ranger alerted him to unexplained disappearances in national parks, noting a lack of follow-up and official records.
He discovered that many missing person cases, especially in remote areas, receive no further investigation despite initial public interest, with agencies withholding reports under FOIA exemptions.
Canines and professional trackers frequently fail to detect evidence in missing person cases, which David argues is suspicious given their reliability in normal conditions.
Several high-profile cases involve individuals who vanish and reappear unexpectedly, with no memory of how they got there, including a Canadian firefighter found in California with ski gear and a truck driver untraceable.
David identifies recurring patterns
A key case involves a German hunter who claims to have been abducted and taken aboard a craft, with the elk frozen in place—a phenomenon linked to time-space manipulation.
DNA analysis of alleged bigfoot hair samples reveals maternal DNA tracing back to the Middle East 12–15,000 years ago, but no matching fraternal DNA, and no independent replication of results.
David suspects systemic obstruction in official investigations, with agencies refusing access to records, even when the cases are decades old and involve clear anomalies.
Summary:
David, a former law enforcement officer and author, investigates unexplained disappearances in national parks and remote areas, starting after a ranger revealed alarming gaps in official follow-up. He found that many cases—especially those involving lone individuals in remote wilderness—lack investigation despite initial public attention. Agencies routinely deny access to records, citing FOIA exemptions, even when cases span decades.
David highlights a pattern: disappearances often occur when people are alone, and professional tracking fails, which he sees as suspicious. Notable cases include a Canadian firefighter who reappears with no memory of how he got to California, and a German hunter who claims to have been abducted and taken aboard a craft, during which time and space seemed to freeze. He also examines alleged bigfoot hair samples, with DNA results showing maternal lineage from the Middle East but no matching paternal DNA—results not replicated by independent labs.
These findings suggest either advanced phenomena or systemic cover-up. While David presents these as potential signs of extraterrestrial or interdimensional activity, he emphasizes that no mainstream science confirms such theories. His work centers on the idea that official agencies may be suppressing or failing to investigate these cases due to embarrassment, lack of resources, or deeper, unacknowledged patterns—leaving many missing persons cases unresolved and unexplained.
FAQs
David was researching at Yosemite National Park when two rangers approached him about missing people. They reported that many individuals went missing, and despite initial public interest, there was little follow-up after 10–15 days. They also noted that their agency wouldn’t release reports, which raised concerns about a lack of accountability and investigation.
Yes, David discovered that some cases, like the 1960s disappearance of Stacey Harris, had no follow-up for over 40 years. He was denied access to official records, and park service officials stated the cases were 'still under investigation,' despite no active work being done, which David saw as a possible cover-up or systemic neglect.
David has investigated cases like a Canadian firefighter who woke up in California with ski clothes, a truck driver found dead in a field with no trace of his body, and a man who claimed to have been abducted and taken aboard a craft. In each case, there were no clear explanations, and the events defied conventional logic.
David reports that canines are often ineffective in missing persons cases, with hundreds of instances where dogs fail to track or show interest. He believes this is not due to incompetence, but suggests it may point to something deeper—like interference from unknown forces affecting the natural environment or the ability to detect traces.
David suggests that while not a confirmed fact, there are patterns in missing persons cases that align with abduction stories—such as telepathic communication, time-space manipulation, or being taken aboard crafts. He speculates that these experiences could be part of a larger, unexplained phenomenon beyond human understanding.
David tested hair samples from supposed Bigfoot sightings and found that maternal DNA traced back to the Middle East 12–15,000 years ago, while paternal DNA did not exist in any known databases. However, experts have criticized the study for poor methodology, contamination, and lack of peer-reviewed validation, calling it flawed and not scientifically credible.
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