Speaker 1Hello and welcome back to the James Kennedy podcast. How you doing? I missed you. I wasn't here last week. I took a week off. Did you notice? Did anyone care? I doubted very much. But you know, I've been trying to be really good with these podcasts, like getting one out every week. And I've just been so crazy busy with other stuff, man, that I just wasn't able to get one out last week. So apologies for that. But I'm sure the world kept doing its thing despite my absence. So what the hell have I been doing with my time? I hear you scream. Well, check this out. Just two days ago, your man here was sat inside the walls of the House of Lords, giving evidence on behalf of the incredible Carry On Touring campaign about the difficulties facing UK creative industries wanting to tour in Europe post-Brexit. There was a bunch of us there. There was myself. There was Perry, the guitar player from Pendulum. There was the Musicians Union. There was, of course, Tim and Ian, the amazing people behind the Carry On Touring campaign. Tim Brennan, of course, was on the podcast just a few episodes back. He was the guy that spearheaded this whole thing with. the incredible petition that he set up, which garnered over 280,000 votes, signatures, I should say, and got it debated in Parliament. And now, you know, I was part of the entourage that went down there to give first-hand or second-hand evidence to the Lords and the MPs about the true realities of what it is like for touring parties and their crews to try and do their thing in Europe post-Brexit. So that was interesting. You know, we had to go in through like an airport type of thing, you know, where you go through a, like a metal detector and you've got to put your, you know, all your wallet and all your bits in a tray and then they scan that through and then you go in. So there was about 30 of us. We're all dressed in leather with big beards and long hair and we're just like jamming up the entire entrance to the House of Lords and you've got all these like, you know, guys in suits trying to squeeze past and the looks we were getting. They were just like, who the fuck are these guys coming into the House of Lords? But it was cool, man. It went well, I think, you know, and like for the campaign to get it that far, it's a huge achievement on their behalf as well. So I was happy to play, you know, whatever small supporting role I could in the thing. I got to give my 10 cents, you know, where I kind of fed back, you know, the issues affecting my industry as a musician with regards to touring in Europe post-Brexit. And it was fucking hilarious because I said that, you know, many of the bands that I know of are just straight out cancelling their tours. And then I went on to elaborate, you know, about the issues surrounding the carne, the ridiculousness of the carne situation, which has been discussed on the podcast before. The 90-day rule, you know, where crew members have got to come back after three months. And they have to be home for another three months before they can go back out, which obviously is, you know, terminal for their career as a full-time professional crew member trying to do their thing in Europe. So I was talking about all that. And then I mentioned, you know, the awesome and beloved Eddie Marsh, the bass player from the James Kennedy and the Underdogs extravaganza, who is, as some of you may know, part of the Iron Maiden touring party. And I spoke to Ed a few weeks ago, and he said that they'd had a bit of a nightmare on the European leg as well. So I talked about that as an example of how this affects all of the bands that are going to come out of the levels of the food chain. And Perry from Pendulum chimed in with a comment about, you know, Bruce Dickinson from Maiden being such a strident supporter of Brexit that now it's interesting that he's getting his comeuppance, you know. And the Lord, I was sat like right at the head of the table, man. It was really freaking freaky. I was sat pretty much right next to the main Lord that was hosting the thing. And he was scribbling everything down in shorthand. And I was fascinated by this because it just looked like a mess on the page. But he didn't miss a trick, this dude, man. He was scribbling everything. Because about an hour after Perry's comment, you know, when the conversation had gone elsewhere, he just randomly said, well, I'd like to get this Bruce Dickinson chap in for a chat to see what he's got to say for himself. I was like, fucking hell, he wrote that down and remembered it. He clearly got no clue who Bruce Dickinson is. And the idea of Bruce Dickinson from Maiden getting reprimanded by a bunch of like 80-year-old lords, it was just fucking hilarious. But I thought they were quite cool, man, to be honest. They all seemed quite clued up on the issue. They all spoke quite passionately. I'm talking about the lords now. You know, they all talk quite passionately and quite knowledgeably about the issues affecting the industries, which was quite hopeful. Interesting to note, though, that there wasn't a single Tory MP or Lord in the room at all, in the audience, given that they are, you know, the government. That, I think, is going to be a bit of a roadblock to progress on this issue. But at the same time, you know, they were swearing in their new dictator on Tuesday, weren't they? The lovely, I'm sure, distrust who is going to solve all of our energy problems within the next five days or something like that. So that's awesome. But it was an interesting experience, man. It's just one of the many bizarre and random and interesting things that you get to do when you're a musician, you know? So I just say yes to shit and turn up and see what happens. And it was fun. I met some cool people. And it was, you could tell we're all musicians because the second the thing wrapped up, you know, we all just whipped out our phones and started taking selfies. Like, there's no way I'm missing the opportunity to get a picture of myself sat in a house of lords. Fuck that. So we're all like, hey, man, can you take a picture of me? And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to take a picture of you. Yeah, man, can you take a picture of me? And, you know, it was like back in our natural habitat of taking selfies. And then the conversation immediately moved to where we all going to go for a pint, you know? But, you know, in all seriousness, I think we did a service for the campaign. It's a lot further down the line now, hopefully, now that it's actually got some traction inside Parliament. I mean, I know these things take a long time and politics is messy and full of compromise and, you know, but I know there are much bigger issues, I suppose, more broadly speaking. But Kevin Brennan, you know, I mean, he's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great man. The main man was there, who was also on the podcast a couple of episodes back. He's a major driving force in this. So big up to Kevin Brennan on behalf of all the musical community and all the crew members that were affected by this issue, because he is, you know, he is very eloquent, passionate and articulate and very energetic. And he is really driving this hard from within South Parliament. So, Kevin, if you're listening, we thank you for that, man. Right. But today, I know that most of you have clicked on the link to listen to this. I've clicked on it for one reason and one reason only. You've clicked on it because you want to hear the mighty, the awesome, the brilliant, the talented and the lovely Mr. Frank Turner. Frank's coming. Hold your horses. He'll be here in just a bit, you know, but I mean, he's a busy dude. He's got to wrap up his previous interview and then he's going to squeeze us in before he's going to move straight on to another one. Now, for those of you that are hoping to hear about when Frank first discovered his love of music and what was the first record he ever heard and all that sort of stuff, I won't be asking him any of those questions. Sorry. You know, my podcast is not a promo platform and Frank doesn't need that anyway, you know, so I'm hoping to have a bit more of an interesting conversation with Frank and try and give him some questions that he hasn't already answered a million times before, which would be difficult because, you know, he's done a lot. But I purposely don't get a lot of musicians on the podcast because, you know, no disrespect to the community that I'm a part of. Many of them, they live quite a one-dimensional life, you know, and I get that. It's all about the rock and roll and the music and not much else. I'm more interested in talking to people that have got something we can either learn from or that can, pause or a campaign or just people who are dead interesting and insightful about life or their stories or whatever. And Frank, I think, navigates quite a lot of that stuff. He's a very interesting guy who's done a hell of a lot, achieved a hell of a lot. He's experienced a lot of highs, a lot of lows. He's had a very interesting journey as a person and as an artist. And, you know, thankfully as well, he's also very articulate, well-spoken and very outspoken. So I thought Frank would be a perfect person. If we're going to get somebody from the music world to come on, I thought he just come on and try and plug their latest record, you know. But by the way, Frank's latest does have a new record, the number one in the album charts, incredibly awesome FTHC, which I'm a massive fan of. So I'll try not to fanboy over that aspect of it too much. But that's not the main reason why Frank is on today. I just thought Frank would be an interesting guest and hopefully we can have a chat that for you Frank Turner fans out there listening will be something different to see a different side of Frank. So I'm just looking at the clock here and Frank is due to join us any second or stay right where you are. And in the meantime, I'm going to nag you again. Have you subscribed to the podcast? It's a click of a button, man. Come on, help a brother out here. If you haven't, what better reason and what better time to do it than to do it now? Get on it. Smash that star ratings button. Give me some stars, man. Come on. Is that too much to ask? And of course, please do spread the word about the podcast. You know, we're getting interesting dudes on every week and we'll continue to do so as long as there's interest in us doing that. So, so help us get this word out there and help support the podcast and, you know, help keep us afloat so that we can keep giving you the good stuff. And now the moment you've been waiting for. Frank Turner is a man who needs no introduction and is one of the hardest working people in the business and one of the finest songwriters and lyricists of our time. He's only just recently gotten back from completing a gargantuan tour of the US, 50 states in 50 days and his latest album, The Awesome FTHC, recently peaked at number one on the UK album chart. We've got a lot to get into and not a lot of time to do it. So without further ado, Mr. Frank Turner, how are you, sir?
Speaker 2I'm very well, thank you. What a lovely intro that made me feel accomplished.
Speaker 1Well, accomplished you are, number one. How does that feel, man? Having a number one record?
Speaker 2Yeah, it's good. It's a slightly mixed feeling for me simply because as a kid, my whole sort of identity was that I was the kind of kid who didn't care about the charts, what was in the charts. And then as an adult to then sort of get the number one in the charts, it's, I mean, the point is, it's awesome. But there's a little 16 year old me in the middle wagging her fingers. You sold out.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2But the thing is, ultimately, that guy was an idiot. So let's just move on. It feels great.
Speaker 1100%. And dude, I mean, what a record as well. I mean, I'll be plugging the shit out of the record later on. But I mean, it's one of my favorites. Honestly, I love it. Thank you. That's very kind. But you are a busy mofo, as I just said in the intro. I mean, you've just gone back from 50 states in 50 days. You've been a busy mofo for a long time. You're an unstoppable force. I mean, for me, I'm interested in what's driving that. I mean, I couldn't keep up, man. I don't know how the hell you've been able to do this for so long, so consistently. It's such a high quality, constantly on the move with such a high level of creative output. What's driving this? Is it pure creative? passion and endeavor or is this something else do you
Speaker 2think i mean it's it's i mean first of all it's a slightly difficult question for me to answer because i'm sat in the middle of this this uh um tasmanian devil tornado um uh but like it's you know i kind of uh i mean i i grew up idolizing bands like black flag and there was very much a kind of there there's an interesting and unpackable crossover between the puritan work ethic and hardcore punk i think but anyway uh that's a whole other conversation um but you know the idea of touring a lot and touring hard um and all that kind of thing was always really appealing to me and um i'm sort of in a way that's unoriginal but i'm slightly sort of i've always been slightly haunted by mortality in a sense of like limited time and this kind of thing and it's like get on with it you know um i can no longer be an archaeologist and a paleontologist and an astronaut and you know i mean my options limit so this one do it well um but i mean ultimately i suspect that like it's just a um like i've got two sisters and they're both equally driven in their fields you know um one of my sisters is in the green party one of them's in the army i mean and like i think my mom slightly wonders what it was she was kind of drinking um if you know what i mean uh so i mean this is definitely like that we have quite a sort of we're quite a kind of um driven family should we say okay so this
Speaker 1is nothing more sinister driving this you don't think it doesn't seem like that when i look at you it seems like this is just something i don't think so this is just in your blood like i'm getting and it sounds as if it's in the
Speaker 2family yeah i think it is yeah i mean again i can psychoanalyze to a degree and like you know i was pretty angry about quite a lot of my uh childhood and my my education and that kind of thing and and there's a certain degree i think most people involved in punk rock there's a little kind of burning coal of fury yes um uh somewhere in the middle of this chest but like i mean yeah it's it's difficult for me to figure out what's going on and what's going on and to answer the question but um yeah 100 yeah hopefully it's a it's a constructive drive rather than a destructive one i
Speaker 1well it was certainly constructive for us because it gives us all this great music so even if there is something painful within you triggering it you know that it's it's to our benefit so thank you for that thank you so do you even manage to have a work-life balance at this point how do you manage to straddle that
Speaker 2that's the thing actually that i've consciously worked on for the last few years and it's funny because like i i had i mean pandemic aside i haven't was actually in the middle of just easing off the gas a little bit um and in a way that perhaps not everybody has noticed because we're quite good at sort of spreading things out and announcing enormous tour dates in one go right and therefore people miss the gaps but like you know we used to do 250 plus shows a year it's not that intense anymore and uh you know i got married i have a home life i have a cat oh nice um lots of people in my band and crew have kids now you know and ultimately i do want to do this for the rest of my life and i'm sort of old enough now to understand that it's a marathon i'm not a sprint right and you know um i turned 40 and believe me there are things you can do when you're in your 20s that you can't do in your 40s um and uh just physically um so uh you know it's there's definitely been a sense of of um trying to be realistic about that also there's definitely there was a moment in my life when i was kind of engaged in an arms race with myself to be the hardest touring but sob in the world kind of thing and um and i sort of realized after a while that first of all nobody else was taking part in it and i was like oh my god i'm not going to do it in this race um and secondly i like no one else really cared um and it was it was quite quite destructive for my own kind of mental health and and indeed it makes you just it makes you quite sort of one-dimensional as a person if you only do one thing all the time and like you know i'm i'm lucky that i started this idea of trying to build a kind of a hinterland for myself outside of touring before the pandemic hit because then it meant that i didn't completely go off the deep end once once my job was done and i was like oh my god i'm not going to do it again i'm not going to do it i've got made illegal right yes yeah for 18 months um so you know it's uh i've been very fortunate in that so yeah there's definitely been a sense of trying to sort of like do things in a slightly more controlled fashion going
Speaker 1forward i think that's one of the hardest things um to achieve in in our line of work so it's amazing it's amazing that you've managed to do that because i was speaking to the uh the lovely ian winwood when he was on the podcast a couple months ago by his amazing book bodies which i'm sure you've read as well uh where he talks about all of the negative sides of this business and the whole world and i think that's a really good way to that you can well there's several many holes that you can fall down to in this business and i actually met him um about a month or so ago in london for a bit of food and we were chatting and i said yes so um you know who if you could name an artist that you think has got it about right then that manages to avoid the trappings of the music monster while still managing to be creatively authentic and um active and successful as well who would you say is managing to pull that off and he said you so i mean what is the um what's the secret then that's very kind of him uh i
Speaker 2mean well the first thing to say is that i spent a fair amount of time jumping gleefully into some of those holes um and indeed uh i think it's at times with ian um we both one of our friendship is in many ways based on the fact that we both came through certain kind of addictive issues yes at a similar time um uh i think that he had a more difficult time than i did but regardless um uh but so i mean i think at this point i mean it's partly due to the fact i just occupy a weird place in the music industry um you know when i started out with my solo career it was kind of interesting because there were quite a few people who i was sort of playing kind of nambuka and squat gigs and this bar is hanging out who got signed to enormous labels and had a gigantic the stratospheric kind of spaceship taking off kind of start of a career and i totally didn't i put up my first record and played to 200 people and sort of went hooray um and you know and like essentially a lot of my friends careers just went bang right at the beginning and a fair few of them then have crashed back as often happens in the music industry some of them um i mean jbt is still riding high and so he should because he's one of the greatest songwriters in the country in my opinion but um uh you know my my ascent such as it was was much slower um and i kind of crested on like album five do you know what i mean rather than album one yeah and that's under your control um uh and there were times when i was pretty frustrated about this in retrospect i'm pretty glad about it because i think that it meant that i sort of managed to build a sort of longer lasting structure for what i do yeah um and in terms of fan base and in terms of my own kind of regard for it like i wasn't it was hard enough for me to be quite so swept off my feet by the trappings of success given that it took me a long bloody time to get um and it was just slightly more realistic about it i was slightly older when it when i when i did get to the point of you know headlining an arena i wasn't 23 i was 31 you know there was difference there um and so all of this just sort of meant that i was able to kind of be slightly more arm's length about the industry generally and like what you know when it comes to america like an awful lot of british bands go to america and they play chicago new york and la and then they come home and they go well we didn't crack america and it's like and i got in a van and played every state round and round and round and again and again again 15 years wow and now now i have a career in america but it's like with that i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure that goes back to the thing about growing up listening to black flag that's all i ever wanted to do as a kid was get in a van and drive around america but um uh so you know i just i don't have the traditional music industry career and i never really did um and it means that there's a more kind of sense of stability in what i do hopefully more a sense of realism and yeah now at a point nine albums in there's no cliches around where i stand do you know i mean there's no there's no cliche about the difficult ninth album yeah if you get to make a ninth album and you're still people are still interested and you're still selling records and tickets and all the rest of it you're kind of home free because yes what what criticism is someone going to level at me i mean people can say i don't like what you do that's totally fine of course whatever but they can't say it's completely without merit yes or without value because it self-evidently isn't it can't be at this point and there's a sort of security in that which enables you to be kind of free in a funny way
Speaker 1and you've got an incredible fan base as well your audience man it's it's it borders on worship and rightfully so because i mean you know you've spoken throughout your amazing back catalog now throughout your songs you've spoken honestly about so many different parts of the human condition that so many different people can relate to um and i meet people all the time you just come up in conversation you know you start talking music people like oh i've got a frank turn a tattoo and it's like and they're fucking you know that you've got an amazing loyal fan base and i think that's testament to like you say you've built that up from doing it in a van playing to 12 people to 200 people to 2 000 people and you and you've just been consistently playing and just getting out there and doing your thing authentically and you've built that up so that so it's not that overnight promo extravaganza situation you know
Speaker 2yeah totally i mean it also i've sort of long had a philosophical issue with the idea of kind of almost like class stratification of music like the thing that appealed to me about punk rock was the idea that performers and audience come from the same pool like it's it's we are a community conversation yeah um but it's like the idea that you know musicians are a separate caste to uh to punters is just sort of idiotic to me it doesn't make any sense um and uh obviously you know in my early shows i sold my merch i just hang out to show all the rest of it you can't do that when you're playing wembley arena it's just it's idiotic it's not possible yeah but there is a sort of from an awful lot of people who are into music there it has been a philosophical gesture in the early days which hopefully establishes all that and also like i mean just little things like my email address is still on my website so people people can say well yeah well i i
Speaker 1mailed it to you and you got back personally i was like oh that doesn't happen often you know
Speaker 2yeah well but you know who else does that henry rollins um and and he still does i might ask so i can confirm that he does yeah so you know so i mean there's an obvious kind of lineage there
Speaker 1well it's interesting you mentioned punk because um if i look at your back catalog there is there's a lot of different genres there i mean the new album's got some heavy shit on there it's great to see that coming back and obviously you know a million dead as well was a very heavy band um but i think if i look through some of the more poppier records and you know the more acoustic folk tinge stuff i still feel the punk aesthetic there i think that's the through line i can just feel that through everything you do and it's interesting because for me i don't think punk is is about a genre i think punk is about an ethos and i'd be interested to know what punk is to you do you see it that way i
Speaker 2do i mean i should preface this by saying that if humanity collectively it could take all the time that people have spent arguing about what punk is and isn't and directed towards something like curing cancer that would be a better use of everybody's time because ultimately who cares right like what punk is or isn't and like my wife who is a proper old school folky and didn't really have any interaction with punk rock until we met regards to this whole debate with a detached sort of perplexity she's just like who cares boys yeah yeah it's just boys arguing and and she's 100% right about that so with that bit of throat clearing out of the way i mean you know punk was usually important to me as a kid because i felt very very alienated when i was growing up and and kind of pissed off and and um like i didn't fit and all this kind of thing and then i discovered you know the rage of the pistols and black flag was great the inclusivity of the clash was arguably more important yes um and i started kind of bunking the training going to london and discovered that there was an it wasn't just stuff that happened in 78 or 81 or whatever there was an active underground hardcore punk scene in london based around household name records the ukhc scene the late 90s and and the barrier to entry was showing up yes because they were partly because there were so few people interested but also because the whole point was it was inclusive and this is a um uh a slightly um not the right time period but it was it was a safe space almost you know it was just kind of like if you can find this place and you love it and you want to be part of it then you're in that's it done and that was so important to me as a kid because i felt like i didn't fit with my school i felt like i didn't fit with my family and all the rest was like yeah yeah these are my people it was the first kind of sense of welcome and community i ever really had and um and you know over the years my relationship with punk has changed enormously and it's gone up and down and there's certain people from the underground scene who loathe me because i've been successful or whatever it might be but right in the middle of it there is still that sense that it's it's my safe space kind of thing and i will defend that until my dying breath you know having said all that the other thing that i do think though is if i'm having a conversation with somebody who with people who are quote unquote punks then i am very critical of punk as a concept but if i'm having conversations with people who aren't then i'm incredibly defensive right right right yeah it's you know what i mean it's like it's mine shut up leave it alone um
Speaker 1well i i love your missus's response to that and i think that's the one that i'm going to parrot now when people start talking to me about it as well i'm just going to say ultimately who cares yeah yeah yeah yeah but um well you mentioned that you've recently turned 40 and you've had an amazing career now for a long time as well you've started right at the bottom you've had amazing success but i know that you've had a lot of struggles and stuff like that personally as well as through the journey of you know the arts and everything i'm interested to know at this point in your life i don't want to get too heavy at this early hour in the morning are you aware of how this has changed you at all have you got any kind of midlife revelatory life lessons that you're particularly unique because you've had a unique journey that most people don't get to experience most people don't get to travel the world well
Speaker 2you know yeah that all of that side of things is true of course um and i've been very privileged to and play music for a living it's like i do it for free don't tell me um like uh so there's that side of things i mean obviously in terms of like having kind of issues and struggle i mean i think that's a pretty common human experience um i don't think that um my journey's been any more dramatic than anybody else's on that level um sorry i'm just getting a coffee delivered by my band mate gotta be done nice yeah yeah good work matthew you're hired for another week i'll yeah he wants one too but yeah um anyway anyway um but so i mean i said i i'm very hesitant to talk about lessons and all the rest of it and and accrued wisdom and all this kind of thing because um i still kind of like fall out and step on brakes um pretty regularly do you know i mean just in in all possible readings of that statement um uh so you know i don't know i mean i i feel like i can stand here and say things like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know like um looking back on my career to date uh that there have been the only regrets that i have and incidentally the whole like i've got no regrets thing it's just like well then you aren't examining your life particularly right of course i've got some regrets everybody does my regrets tend to be those thankfully very few moments when i haven't kind of trusted my gut instinct about my art 100 thing you know i don't want to get too deep into the weeds on this but there's a couple of music videos that i'm just like about to pick an example um and and like you know so it's a long lesson it is the cliche that everybody tells you when you start out but speaking now 20 years 25 years of music career it's true trust your gut do things you believe in right um because ultimately you will have to answer for your creative decisions for the rest of your life you know um and uh so so that's that's one thing i would say i designed i guess the second thing i would say is that like and i wrote an entire record about this so forgive me for quoting myself but like ultimately i feel like over time people forget the content of your conversations and remember the tone of them more um so and i think that being kind and considerate and and um yeah kind and considerate with your introductions with other people and gentle um even if you disagree with them and all this kind of thing is really important to me i should hasten to add at this point that i'm aware that there's a degree of privilege in putting myself out there and i'm aware that there's a degree of privilege in putting it that way in the sense that there are people who are in situations where kindness and gentleness in their disagreements is a ludicrous idea and of course that's true um and i'm not trying to this is why i'm hesitate to answer your question is that i'm very resistant to tell anybody else what to do but for myself like i just think that like the older i get the more i think back to the things that trouble me are the times when i've been brittle and harsh and unforgiving and all these kinds of things and i think that if i could change anything i would go back and make my own decisions and i think that's a really good thing and i think that's a really good thing myself more kind basically um uh and and like as i say that's not going to apply to everybody in all situations i don't think that um uh you know you should be kind to fascists or whatever to pick a clunkingly obvious example but but so so you know there are there are obvious kind of um uh different gradations to this but on a on my personal level on my journey through life i sort of even the people that i have fallen out with and disagree with i could have been more
Speaker 1i love it yeah well i think your uh your reticence to answer that actually speaks volumes because i think you're you're right in that so i appreciate you sharing that um how do you feel about the uh the music industry you've seen the transition from the old model to the new any any thoughts on that
Speaker 2well it's a funny thing that you say that because actually for my engagement with kind of like the the above ground music industry if you like sort of began almost exactly at the point when everything started falling down everyone started running around screaming with their hair on fire so like i don't i i sort of know about the music industry and i don't know about the music industry and i grew up as a consumer of the music industry before the internet and before everything went nuts but i never worked in that industry do you know what i mean um and so to a degree i'm quite comfortable with the fact that the music industry is generally in some kind of panicky death spiral forever and everyone thinks it's gonna collapse next week and they you know it's been like that the whole time i've been involved in it right i always think in these conversations it's crucial to say that music industry is two separate words and that i'm interested in the music and i really engage in the business or the industry side of it but ultimately if i get to make a living expressing myself and indeed my band and my crew get to make a living being part of that then happy days and and quite the mechanics of the of the economics behind that obviously there's something i have to pay attention to but i'm not i'm not that fussed in some ways yeah yeah yeah exactly exactly secondary having said everything i've just said i mean i do think there's an inflection point in the structure of the industry his image of the music industry is that music industry is um i think that at the moment the music industry is very very um obsessed with data um and particularly you look at things like tiktok which incidentally has the death harbinger of civilization and culture as a concept um but have you i mean have you been on tiktok of course dude i'm i know i was addicted
Speaker 1to monkey videos as anybody else mike i'm on human
Speaker 2but i mean i i got i got told to go and have a look at tiktok because they wanted me to get a tiktok account which i did and they were like just spend a bit while on the account getting used to it and i thought to myself it's not the western civilization and culture is about to collapse is that it collapsed some time ago um hence tiktok this is the yeah hence tiktok anyway um i mean this is all ultimately the gripe of somebody who's too old to get it um uh but like so it is interesting there's a huge thing going on with particularly the major labels are kind of obsessed with data and streaming and tiktok and all the rest of it and it doesn't seem to me to translate into any meaningful either economic or artistic activity there's a sort of break in the logical chain there somewhere and i don't think that the current sort of data is a particularly sustainable business model i don't know i i'll in many ways i don't really care um you know for my i i have a different approach that i'm interested and engaged in but um yeah i don't know i mean the music industry has long been a uh a back-slapping congratulatory um cutthroat all the things that hunter s thompson said about it and all the rest and you have to slightly engage with that realistically um uh but it is what it is well
Speaker 1speaking about what does matter because we gotta let you go soon you in three days time you're in hamburg in germany and cologne you're doing a few dates in germany and then you're back in um they're back on home turf 21st of september in redding you're playing all through the uk right the way through till october and then you're back into germany on in november so you are playing everywhere man you're doing redding sheffield oxford london nottingham birmingham cambridge norwich leeds at glasgow everywhere uh or you're playing cardiff on the 12th of october at the tram shed so i'll be there for that one because that's my
Speaker 2hometown fantastic please do yeah and the tram shed tram shed is a great venue as well awesome i i have the fortune of having done what i do for long enough now that quite often i know the venues we're playing better than the local crew do because i've been playing them since they were in school and uh it's um uh which is a lovely thing actually and like there's a lot of spots in this i'm really excited to to get back to british academy nottingham rock city oh my favorite all
Speaker 1that kind of thing nottingham rock city is my favorite venue in the uk to play it is the only
Speaker 2venue i have tattooed on my arm so uh oh sweet i love that yeah
Speaker 1man well i've got a goldfish ball from rock city over there which i stole when i was there last there you go amazing so good work before we wrap up so what's next then what's what's after that what have you got coming up now anything else that we need to know about or i mean you said enough already to have a number one record and a massive tour
Speaker 2i mean i think the this record was an unusual one for me it was sort of released at a point in time when touring was still up on bricks usually i tore through an album release um you know i'm starting to toy around with writing new stuff but this record was very much written to be played live and the record's been out for more than six months and this is the first uk tour for it that's mental to me um so i guess my point is my intention is to keep touring this record for a while yet because i'm proud of it i think it's a good record and i want to keep trucking around the world um so there'll be that also recently released a side project record called eating for swimming which is uh what to say about that it's a kind of deranged post-modernist deconstructivist electronic metal record wow okay was that the most pretentious thing anyone's ever said on on on here that sounds like my all my records well there we go there we go so that's that's been out lately which has been fun too so
Speaker 1just keep them busy basically amazing well the brilliant fthc is out now and is available everywhere go out and buy a copy buy 10 copies and give them to your friends and let me tell you that if the life affirming extravaganza that is a frank turner live show comes even remotely near your town go and grab a shitload of tickets and get out because it is the best thing you will ever experience frank thanks so much for stopping by to chat with us today i wish you nothing but the best thanks for everything you give us and long may you continue to shine hey
Speaker 2thank you so much man that's very kind of you and hopefully i'll
Speaker 1see you in cardiff i'll see you in tram show cheers frank and just like that he's gone there we go frank turner ladies and gentlemen let's hear for him what do you think of that i hope you enjoyed it i enjoyed it there was loads of things i you know i would have asked more if we have more time but i mean you know i'm not going to be able to do that i think we managed to pack quite a lot into uh you know the 20 odd minutes that we had there what a cool dude i got a lot of time for frank turner man you know not only do i genuinely believe he's one of the best songwriters of our times but um you know what a super intelligent articulate and you know grounded guy that he is and also he's bang on you know he's on the right side of a lot of really important issues and he's very outspoken and supportive of a lot of important causes so yeah an all-around cool dude that deserves all of the success the hard-won success that he's spent so long building so big props to frank turner and you know really appreciate him giving us his time today as well i know he's super busy um check out his website at frank slash turner.com and go to the live page and check out where he's playing because he's literally playing as of about two days from broadcasting this episode tonight he'll be playing in germany and all over the uk and then back to germany and doubtless there will be a ton more dates as well so check him out he's on tour right now he's going to be coming to all the main spots around the uk if you can get a ticket i would not hang about get them because the live show is fantastic the dude's got so many good songs man classics you know what i mean and like i think at this point with nine albums you know that every song that's squeezed into a set list is going to be an absolute banger so get out there i will be at the uh the cardiff show which is on october the 12th at the cardiff tram shed so i shall see you there and if you haven't yet heard the new album fthc man just go and listen to it i know i i'm gonna get i'm gonna pick up a copy on vinyl i think because you know i want to have the real deal it's a absolutely incredible album so many great storytelling songs on there and nice to hear a return to like a heavier sound which frank does so well as well so there's my plug you know gotta keep the label happy but i mean every damn word of it i cannot get haven't been so well out of my head it's keeping me awake at night and it's so many good tunes in that record and his lyrics man his lyrics are second to none you know when i when i listen to like a frank turner record i i always have this overwhelming thing a feeling of hmm okay this is what a real songwriter sounds like it's just his storytelling and his wordplay and his lyricism yeah it's really second to none so there we go so i hope you enjoyed the chat you know maybe we'll get him on again for a longer chat when he's got a bit more time if he ever gets more time but you know i thought that was interesting and i hope you did too if you're in london this coming saturday the 10th i will be performing in hyde park with those pesky kids at extinction rebellion so uh come and say hello i shall be there uh playing some tunes of the new record make anger great again and it'd be great to see you and have a little sing-along if you're in town i think i'm on at about three o'clock um but you know due to the nature of these kind of pop-up protest events that could mean anything from three o'clock till seven o'clock you know what i mean so but come along anyway to stand up be counted because it's a very important issue as you know extinction rebellion are people that i've been involved with on many events and i am a strident supporter of them so they're doing a festival of resistance it's going all weekend please do come along and show some solidarity and stand up be counted and support the cause because as they say there is no music on a dead planet climate change is real it's happening and it's urgent as always i'm going to finish up by nagging you again to subscribe to the podcast there are some awesome episodes coming up truly incredible guests coming up so hit that damn subscribe button and the follow button so that you get notified when these episodes drop because as i said in the intro i did miss last week and it's possible that i'm not going to be able to do that because i'm not going to be able to i might be missing next week as well so you can't rely at the moment on these dropping at seven o'clock every wednesday because other things are going to take precedent because the end of the day i'm not just a podcaster this is something i do on the side as well as being you know a professional musician myself i'm supposed to be finishing my second book i run a label i go to the house of lords you know these are the sorts of things i do now you know what i mean so the podcasting is something that i love doing and it's great for me to be able to share these like really interesting things with really important dudes but i at the moment i think and for the future you know obviously when i'm touring with a band and stuff i'd like to keep doing these but it is going to be like pretty much impossible for me to keep these regularly coming out at seven o'clock on a wednesday so i think if you want to know when these are dropping you know if you're not following me on social media then the best thing to do is to subscribe to the podcast so you get a notification bell when you you know you log into your apple your spotify or your youtube or whatever and on a week when i do miss one you know please do go back through and listen to the previous episodes so many great conversations i've had with so many great people who've been kind enough to give me their time so if you know if you've missed a few episodes then do go back and check those out because there are some great conversations there that i'm really proud to have been able to put out into the uh into the content space as always thanks for the support thanks for listening and i hope you're all well have an incredible week take care of yourself take care of others and go and check out fthc the new album by frank turner it's a banger turn it up and you can thank me later maybe i'll see you at one of the shows love you loads guys have a great day bye bye have an awesome week i'll speak to you soon see ya
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