#2499 - Marcus King

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! What's up, Marcus? Good to see you, brother. What's happening? It's crazy to be here. It's crazy to have you here, man, and thank you so much for the guitar. That's the dopest shit that anybody's ever given me. Oh man, I hope you like it. I'm sure I like it, I just can't play. And I would love to learn how to play, but I know my brain, and I can't give my brain another thing to do. You've got a lot. Well, the problem is I get obsessed with things. Me too. I'm sure. You can't get as good as you got without getting obsessed. Are you like this, like, I don't like doing things I'm not good at? I love doing things I'm not good at to get good at them. Right. But it's not leisurely to me to play golf. Like, I can't enjoy it because I'm bad at it. Well, you'll enjoy it if you get good at it, but the problem is to get good at it, then you've got to get obsessed. Yeah. And then you've got to take lessons. Like, Jamie's got a fucking virtual reality thing in the back where he whacks balls every day. He's a-- Oh, yeah. He's obsessed. It's like recovering from hitting today. Sweating. Wow. It's hot. Yeah. My drummer's a really good golfer. Golf is one of those things that if you get into that, man, that's your whole fucking day. Yeah. That's eight hours. He goes out, like, three or four days a week on the road. When I was living in Boston, I noticed that the comedians that really got into golf, their career kind of stalled. Because they were just playing golf all day, having fun, drinking. And then they'd go to the club at night, but they weren't writing any new jokes. They weren't obsessing on their career. They kind of stalled out a little. When I still drank, I really liked golfing. Yeah? And then I quit drinking. And I was like, I don't really like this. When did you quit drinking? Well, I quit a few times, but most recent time was like a year and a half ago. Were you quitting because you were just off the rails or, like, got to get your health in order? It was kind of a combo deal, you know? Like, when I met my wife, at that point, I thought that I could drink like a gentleman. And it just never really worked out that way. There's just something in me that just wanted to completely burn my life to the ground every time I drank, you know? A real destructive quality. Ooh, that's not good. Yeah. Yeah. Fortunately, I never had that. But that is a thing. I've seen that. What is that? I think it's-- I think a lot of it is repressed emotions. And that's where they find you, when your brain is off switch. Demon in the bottle. Yeah. They go, hey, Marcus, let's get those problems out. It seduces me. It's like, you don't need anybody. Fuck everybody. That woman in me. That woman that marries you, you don't want her. I think sometimes people do that to almost save themselves from heartbreak sometimes. You kind of wreck it yourself. It's like making fun of yourself before anyone else can. Right. It's like that thing. Yeah, right. Just assume it's going to go bad eventually. Let's get this fucking train on the tracks right now. Crack, pour, drink. Eugh. Rawr. That was kind of my-- you know, that was my approach for a while. I just-- I don't know, man. I was just-- I didn't want to feel anything. So that was all-- that was where it would always end up. I remember even asking my wife, like, a couple years ago, we opened up for the Avett Brothers in Raleigh, North Carolina. And at that point, I had been sober for like six months. And I was like, I really think I can handle it. You know? And then-- and then cut to, it's like the famous last words. It's like, I chugged a Jumbo Whopper. A Jumbo White Claw. I started with a Jumbo White Claw. And I just got completely hammered, blacked out. Pissed my wife off so bad, like, I woke up. And I was at our friend's house still, like, on the floor. And she left in my bus. And like, my wallet, everything was on the bus. I had no identification. She was like, you can fucking figure it out, man. Wow. And the bus turned around, come got me. But yeah, she doesn't play any games. So did you stop then? Yeah, I did. Oh, so one night? Yeah, I had one night off the leash. And I realized I couldn't handle it, you know? There's just some kind of quality in me that's like, I can't stop, you know? And maybe someday I'll find that. It's like, I got to get right in here, you know, and in here with myself before I can really consider that again. I quit drinking for about eight months just because I realized I just wasn't feeling good. I was doing it because of the club. I was at the club every night. And you know, it's like one night, someone would say, hey, let's do shots. I'll do a shot. I want to be cordial, hang out with everybody, sense of community, let's all do it together. Come on, boys. And then, you know, two drinks, three drinks, go home, get up, feel like shit, work out. Do it again the next day, feel even shittier the next day. And it's like, god damn, I got to take some time off. So I took about eight months off. I think-- I'm not exactly sure how much time I took off. And then I had like a drink with dinner one night. And I said, all right. And so since then, I've never gotten drunk. I've only had a drink or two. Yeah. You know, so I've managed it. But I was not an alcoholic. I was just realizing that all this fun was-- it was messing up the rest of my time. I was like, what is it-- there's an expression that when you're drinking, like, you're taking a loan out on the good times that you could have had for some good times you could have right now. And then you got to pay it back. Yeah, with interest. Yeah. Well, physically-- the problem is, physically for me, it just wasn't worth it. I just-- I would be working out at the gym going, why am I doing this? I keep feeling like shit. And every time I'm working out, I'm pushing through all this, you know, toxic shit that I poured down my throat the night before. And my body's recovering from it. So I feel tired and drained. And then my brain wasn't working as well, you know? That's what it was for me, was like the anxiety and just like the dopamine depletion and just feeling just completely just like-- and I'm somebody who's already struggling with, like, that's why I drink in the first place. It's like my mental issues and just anxiety and depression. And then it would just kind of hit me tenfold the next day. It's always interesting to me when someone with anxiety chooses a path in life like live performing. Yeah. Because, like, if there's anything that gives people anxiety, it's live performing. And you're really good at it, which is crazy. It's like, you know-- you're picking this thing that you're really good at, but that gives a lot of people anxiety, and you have anxiety to begin with. Yeah. I mean, it's like there's something to that. It's like Dan Soder, I always quote him on this. He's like, you know, I go around each night, like, craving the approval of, like, thousands of people a night. Like, you didn't think I was doing that because things went well growing up. Right. Like, I'm fucked up. I need-- I need all these people. I need all these people to tell me I'm doing a good job. But-- I think the idea is that eventually you channel that. And when you get yourself to get-- the idea-- some people have this idea that if you ever get yourself together somewhat, and I don't think anybody ever gets totally together, but you get yourself together somewhat, and then you don't do it for the approval of it. You do it for the love of the art of it, the thing, and bringing the thing to people, and getting enjoyment out of having these people have a good time. Yeah. And I think you-- I think that can be done. I think you can shift your focus from I just want these people's love to I want to give them love. I want everyone to have a good time. You know, I want to be up there just fucking having a good time. They're having a good time. We all have a good time together. I make their lives feel better for a brief moment. I feel better. Everybody's-- This episode is presented by Paramount+. The King. The King returns. Sylvester Stallone is back as mob boss Dwight Manfredi in the Paramount+ hit series Tulsa King. With new enemies closing in and his empire on the line, Dwight and his crew prepare for the biggest fight of their lives. Tulsa King, new season, now streaming only on Paramount+. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. 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Yeah, I was, my boy, Ben Jernigan, he told me, he was like, you should text Joe. Because I'm an avid listener. I was like, you think I should say something? He's like, yeah, fucking tell him rock and roll ain't dead, man. It's here tonight at Green Hall. Well, it's not dead, but it's different. And a lot of the rock that's out now that's doing really well is like a Southern inspired rock, which is interesting. It's like a Southern, almost country like rock, like bluesy country rock, you know, red clay strays, like that kind of shit. They're doing great. It's like, there's a lot of that out there, you know? Like people, people are digging that kind of music, but there's just, you know, when I talk about like rock, I mean, like when I was in high school, it was all Van Halen, ACW. DC, like that. There was so many big rock and roll bands, the Stones, you know, there was just so much of that out there. And it's odd that there's not a lot of big bands like that anymore. I think it's coming back around. I gotta hope so. It doesn't make sense to me because like the classic rock is still, like we're in the green room and Freebird comes on, still everybody's going nuts. You know, I mean, there's classics, another Southern rock and roll band, Leonard Skinner, but there's, there's still like a love of that kind of music, but it's just, it's weird that it kind of, you know, it just didn't, I don't know what happened. Well, it's interesting how cyclical the music industry can be. Like, I feel like for the first time in the last 10 years, like since urban cowboy came out, like, cause I mean, for the last 10 years, I've been going to LA with a cowboy hat on and I always get the same shit. Like, well, where do you want to park your horse? You know, like, what are you up to cowboy? People just talking shit. But now I go out there and everybody's got a cowboy hat on. Really? It's like chic. Yeah. That's interesting. It's like in Vogue, like the cowboy thing. Which makes you not want to wear a cowboy hat. Well, you know, it's just, I think rock and roll is kind of having a similar, a similar resurgence. God, I hope so. I hope so. You know, I mean, there's gotta be people out there that still love it. And I just don't, I mean, I just don't understand how there's no new big bands like that. Well, it's interesting. You know, I was actually, I was in the gym watching Led Zeppelin at Royal Albert Hall. Oh, wow. And I was like, this is a fucking jam band. They're jamming, you know? And I'm like, it just, like the Allman Brothers band was a jam band. They had guidelines. And that's kind of how we do our show. Like we have songs that we're playing just to get to that, that improvisational section where we can just kind of, you know, work with the chemistry of the crowd and each other on stage. And it's just, it's interesting to me, like the way things have become subdivided, you know, it's like, you're not a jam band unless it's like, widespread or like Phish or like The Dead or something like that. But like, Zeppelin was a fucking jam band. Yeah, in a lot of ways. Yeah. Especially when they're performing live. Yeah. Yeah. What is that band that sounds like Zeppelin? Greta Van Fleet. Yeah, Greta Van Fleet. They're fucking great. They are great. It's weird. It's weird because they sound so much like Zeppelin, but they're really good. So like, I give them a pass. They get a pass from me. I mean, they're my boys. I really, I really like those dudes. Like, we used to party together a bunch. They live in Nashville. And the guitar player, Jake, he's, he's just the sweetest guy. Like, he gave me a housewarming gift. He's like really into pirate stuff. Pirate stuff? Yeah. He's really into piracy. And he gave me, he gave me a, like a, like a, like a musket pistol. Oh, wow. Like what a pirate would have carried around. A real one? Yeah. So like from the olden days? Yeah. Oh, shit. That's gotta be worth a lot of fucking money. Yeah. I mean, they're doing pretty well. Wow. What is a old musket pistol run? How much can you get one of them for? See if you're gonna find something, Jamie. Yeah, an old musket pistol. You know, when the Conquistadors took over Mexico, that's, they had 12 of those. That's it. 12 guns. 12 musket pistols. Wow. Yeah. I looked that up on Perplexity. I was diving deep into how the fuck Mexico became Spanish. Yeah. You know, like what happened? How did it, like, they lost like a hundred indigenous languages at least. Wow. It's kind of crazy. But here it is. What? You can get one for 195 bucks? That's modern reproduction. Oh, reproductions. What about a real one? Down here. Antique ones. 17th century, Barbie Wars. Antique pirate flintlock pistol recently sold for $416. That's it? Yeah. That seems crazy. That seems crazy. It's pretty good for a gift budget. I'd say it looks, based on how many reproductions and what you just said, there being 12 back then. There might not be that many of them that exist. You have to make reproductions. But if this is antique pirate era muskets and it said it sold for 416 bucks from the 17th century. Maybe it sucks. Maybe it's a bad one. That's all they can get. But it's from the 1600s and it sold for 416 bucks. Yeah. I'll try to look it up. Can you see what those look like? We'll see if we can get one. We should get one and put it on the wall. Oh, shit. Look at that one. How much is that one? I think that's the one that sold for 400 bucks. That says $155. What? That's crazy. How are they so cheap? There's the one for 416. God, that seems like they should be almost priceless. I mean, this is from the fucking 1600s and it's sold for 400 bucks? That one sold for 200 bucks? Wow. Just go pick them up. There's a store in Austin. I bet they've got a bunch. No way. Yeah. Really? I went to the store. They've got a bunch of weird shit like this. They must have. They would have to have them if they're only 300 bucks, I guess I would say. And all kinds of armor and guns and cannons and weird shit. What? What place is this? It's called Collectors. I'll look it up real quick. There's something weird about those dudes who want to recreate wars. Yeah. That's an odd thing. That's a very odd thing. Yeah. I mean, I've got the facial hair of a Civil War reenactor, but it's about as close as I get. They've got shit on the wall. Oh, wow. That's in the store here. That's in Austin? Yeah. No shit. Yeah. Well, that's pretty fucking dope. Yeah. I didn't price it out. Collectors Crossroads. I popped in there one day to see what it was. That's what it was about. And they have little musket pistols? Yeah. They got all kinds of shit. I wonder how do you know that. Crossbows. Swords. Crossbow is just a shitty gun. I'm not a fan. What if it was a pirate's crossbow? Yeah, I guess. It's kind of cool. But it's just, it is weird that we're really into like old, like, you know, it's interesting you're holding something that's a piece of history and what history is, is like, at the time, this was a piece of history. This was the shit. Like, at the time, this was like the coolest thing you can get. Like, 400 years ago, if you wanted to kill somebody. This was the way to do it. You had to get one of these things, which is very odd. Yeah. Which is very odd that, oh, look at all this stuff. I don't know if it was George Washington shit there, but they had, that's what it looks like it would be. George Washington swords? I don't know. We should get one of those for Shane. He's a big George Washington fan. Look, there you go. Oh, wow. Look at that. That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what that is. That's a weird one. Look at the handle on that fucker. Is this from Middle East, Central Asia? Oh, look, it's got like a dragon mouth on the back of it. That's pretty sweet. Wow. Huh. All right. We need one of those. All right. Let's take a road trip, Jamie. We should probably do it before this episode comes out. No, we'll grab it tonight. Yeah, we need to go down there today before this episode goes. Fuck up their business. You go there, it's empty. All these dorks have fucking armor all over their house now. It's just people that are really into like the old wars and recreating old wars. All right. I always, I always want to know, like, what's wrong with you? Like, what happened to you? Yeah, it's, um, I grew up with a kid that was like that. That was obsessed with like everything Army, Navy. But he, his father was in the military, but he had never gone into the military. They wouldn't, they wouldn't accept him. Why? I don't know. He was, I don't think he could ever pass the physical. He was a bigger dude. Oh, okay. His name was Maurice. Maurice. 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I believe it, man. Just based on my own experience. Like, I remember the presidential fitness test. Like, that's a bad memory of mine. Just hanging on the pull-up bar in front of all my classmates and not being able to do one pull-up. Just hanging there. What is the presidential fitness test? It's something they did when I was a kid. It's like they wanted to make sure I was fit. It's like they wanted to make sure that you could do, like, 10 push-ups or however many pull-ups or whatever. How many pull-ups do you have to do for the presidential fitness test? There's a different standard, but they literally, this was going on last week, they just started it up again. Donald Trump had, like, Bryson DeChambeau in the White House with a couple guys, Gary Player in the golfer. Well, they had kids in there also. That's funny. It's funny because I'd go, hey, why don't you do it? Let me see you do a chin-up, bro. 22 push-ups for a 10-year-old. 22 push-ups. That's a lot. Yeah, 45 curl-ups, that's crazy. Six pull-ups, that's a lot. What's a curl-up? With the other way, like biceps, hands, you know, pull-up with your hands. 45? Yeah. Come on. That's crazy. Wait a minute. In an eight-minute mile? Come on, is that really? It says six pull-ups or 45 curl-ups, but curl-ups aren't that much easier than pull-ups, are they? I remember when I was 10, they were. What? But that's just being a 10-year-old, because your body, you're only like 60, you know, I don't know, kids are lighter than I am. I was heavier than most. I was going to say, there are different standards. I remember kids. But, bro, 45 is crazy. That seems. It seems excessive. That seems like a lot of reps. I don't even understand how that's possible, that that's the standard? I don't think I could do that. Actually, I think those are sit-ups. It's calling it a curl-up, because here it says it measures abdominal strength. Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, sit-ups. Okay. Why are they calling it curl-ups? I don't know. Because it was like 45 chin-ups. So it's like, there's pull-ups and chin-ups. Which one's a pull-up, which one's a chin-up? Pull-up, hands over. Okay, and then chin-up is this way. That's what I would do. 45 of those would be bonkers. That's crazy. I can't do that. Because like six pull-ups, I could do. Easy. But 45 sit-ups is still hard. That's hard, too. That's a lot. It's a standard. Huh. Not every kid's there. That seems like a lot of kids wouldn't be there for 45 sit-ups. Yep. What are they trying to do? What are they doing to us, too? I would fail on that, too, so they couldn't draft me. These motherfuckers are talking about drafting people. I was listening to Tim Dillon's show, and he was saying that, see if this is true, that Palantir thinks that we should reintroduce conscription, that kids should start getting drafted again into the military, and they should have mandatory. Military experience for kids? I just don't understand why anybody would want to support that. That sounds crazy. Especially after this Iran war, where everybody's like, why the fuck are we in Iran? And if you signed up for that? That sounds nuts. Is that real? Palantir has publicly called for the U.S. to move away from an all-volunteer military and toward some form of universal national service. The many observers interpret as reintroducing a draft or conscription. Yeah, Tim got into this manifesto that I haven't looked into this yet. Why the fuck would a tech company be saying that we need to move towards a universal national military service? How about fuck you? How about fuck you, you go? Because, you know, none of these tech dorks that are running these companies, they're not doing it. Like, what? What are you talking about? Yeah. Throwing meat into the machine? Right. Throwing people's children into these unnecessary wars? Fuck you. It's scary. It's very scary. It's scary that they would, like, how about, let's figure out a way to use your technology so there's no more wars. Wouldn't that be a better goal? Right. Instead of getting kids to fucking learn how to go shoot people they don't know. Sure. Because someone tells you to. And how many of these, out of all the wars, that we've been in since World War II, is it zero that made sense? I think it's zero. I don't think there's one war that we've been in since World War II that makes any fucking sense at all. Sure. And they're like, Ivan, the solution is we need more people to be forced into it. I mean, what would a draft look like in today's culture? I mean, like, with inclusion, would it be like anybody at 18 years old can be drafted or do you think it would still be just, able-bodied young men? That's a good question. You know, I'm for people doing whatever they want, but when it comes to, like, combat, you're going to draft women? That would be fucking insane. That would be insane. So are you not going to, are you going to be sexist? Are you going to, yeah, are you going to go inclusion and say, everybody has to do it? Well, then that'll be good for America. Cause most people would say, get the fuck out of here. There's not a chance in hell we're doing that, right? I still understand how people that aren't elected officials that essentially just run a tech company would think it's a good idea to call for national military service. I've heard other people say that too. I've heard like podcasters and weird tech people say it's a good idea. And I don't know what the fuck they're thinking. I think they should have to go over there and experience war and then, and then come back and see if you really think the same thing. Sure. I buy that. I mean, or at least go on like a USO tour or something. Go with Jeffrey Ross. See what it's about, you know? Well, then you're just going to meet people that are happy to see you. You need to actually see combat. I just don't get why we're even listening to them. You make software, keep doing that. Yeah. It's interesting that they don't even have the, like, why would they say that? No, it doesn't sound good. And it's also, they make weird surveillance. Software that a lot of people are like, but how much are you severe? How much power do you have? Like Tim Dillon went pretty deep on it on the show, which is, I can't recommend enough. If you did not listen to the Tim Dillon show, you're fucking up. It's the funniest fucking take on all the chaos that's going on in the world. I don't think there's anybody better right now. His, his podcast is fucking phenomenal. I'm it's my must listen to podcasts every week. Yep. It's so good. I just listen. But if you watch it, it's even more ridiculous. He was, he did this thing about them giving Ozempic to babies. Oh, it was so funny. It was so ridiculous. My dad did Ozempic and he said, he said, man, you know, like you can eat through that. He's like, you can just keep going. I mean, you won't feel great, but you know, it curves your appetite, but you can, you can get it down. Well, Tim talked about it cause he did it and he said, but it didn't just stop his desire for food. It stopped his desire for everything, which I've heard. So there's some people that think there's some good in these GLP-1s for addiction because it curbs whatever that is as well. So it can help people with all kinds of addictions, too, not just like food addictions, alcohol, but gambling, like weird stuff. I heard that. Yeah. Actually, I was doing it for a minute, and it was around the time that I was, like, one of the times I was trying to quit drinking, and I was working on a record. And I was trying it out, and it actually curbed my desire for a drink. Yeah? Yeah. What else did it do? Gave me really bad stomach cramps. Yeah. And also, I mean, that was, like, before I really, I just, I don't know. At that time in my life, I just wasn't really concerned about what I put in my body, you know? I say that while I'm smoking a cigarette, but, you know. But, dude, you're smoking natural spirits. I think those are safe and effective. Yeah. You know, additive-free. Yeah. I just, I always wonder about these things when things come along that give people an easy fix. Like, okay, maybe it works, or maybe there's some sort of side effect. That's going to fuck you up for the rest of your life. And for some people, there is. I mean, some people are experiencing all kinds of wild side effects. Stomach paralysis is one of them. Brian Simpson got pancreatitis from it. Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. He was sick in bed for, like, two weeks. It fucked him up. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, the long-term effects, like, you just have no idea. Because it's new. Mm-hmm. You know? I've also heard that the problem is the dosages are too high. And what, you know, when you go into a doctor, they give you a standard dosage. And the way to do it, some people feel, is to make a much smaller dose than what they're prescribing. And that that's what you need. You just need a little bit of a curb to it, not like a complete cessation of all desire to eat. Right. Getting to that high dosage really fast could probably be harmful. Or have some fucking discipline. Yeah. How about try that out? How about try out don't eat as much? Same thing. Right. Except this way, it's not going to kill your body or kill your stomach or make you go blind or whatever. What are the side effects? Because there's a lot of lawsuits. There's a shit ton of lawsuits that are coming down the pipe. Because I think people have gone blind. I think I might have made that up. Check that. But this is wild lawsuits. Yeah. Where people are claiming bad side effects. Which, you know, makes sense. It's a medication. People vary biologically. Can cause vision. Permanent blindness. Yeah. In one eye. Oh, well, you know. You got your other guy and now you got a six pack. Eye stroke. Eye stroke. Oh, boy. Wow. Whew. Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy. I don't think I said that right. Okay. Sudden. Painless and often permanent blindness in one eye. Wow. Eye stroke sounds like a punk band. It does. Side effects. Acute pancreatitis. That's what Brian got. Gallbladder problems. Gastroparesis. Stomach paralysis. Bowel obstructions. And potential thyroid tumors. Hmm. Mild GI issues are common. These severe complications require immediate medical attention. Often occurring more frequently at higher doses. Yeah, that's what they're saying. It's apparently when you're getting it from a pharmaceutical drug company, you're getting it. This is the argument for compounding pharmacies, apparently. And then there's a new one that's coming out. What is it called? Rituitide? Ritututide. Ritututide. And this one is supposed to be better because it doesn't cause muscle loss and it doesn't cause bone density loss. And it's supposed to be more effective. More effective. Huh. Investigational. I mean, I don't know. I just typed in Ritututide. That's what it's telling me. Isn't that a weird word? Investigational? Once-weekly injectable triple agonist medication targeting GLP-1, GIP, and glucogen receptors developed by Eli Lilly showing unprecedented weight loss results of up to 24% in Phase II trials. They say that this is going to be a trillion-dollar medication. Whew. Yeah. Go to the gym. Eat better. Be healthy. Do what Jelly Roll did. Yeah. You know, Jelly Roll was at the club last night. He's down 300 pounds. That's fucking nuts. He runs like five miles a day. He works out every day. He looks fantastic. He looks like a different person. It's like I knew him when he was like 500 pounds, and now I know him when he's in the twos. It's like he's a different human. He looks different. I know it's still Jelly Roll, but it looks like a completely different man. It's nuts. I remember when we did, I was in the house band for Kill Tony at the Garden, and Jelly came out and did New York, New York. Yeah, I was there. That's got to be a custom suit. I was like, that's a big suit. Yeah. And then the next time I saw him, he was like he is now. And I mean, hell, like what I did, because I have an appetite, you know? Like what I do now, like I'm basically doing, like a keto diet, because I like to eat a lot of whatever it is. Me too. So if it's like a big salad, you know, or whatever. But I'm down like 25 pounds doing that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Are you doing this with the help of a nutritionist? Are you just doing it on your own? Just doing it on my own. Yeah. Yeah. You're laughing. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's just, I've tried a few different routes, man. I've been, you know, husky since I was a kid and shopping in the Husky. Yeah. I've been shopping in the department at Kmart, you know. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com slash Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code Rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. It's football season and Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, buy a four-piece signature chicken from Popeye's and get another one free on Uber Eats. When your watch party gets hungry, order in and keep everyone's attention where it matters on the game. Order a four-piece signature chicken from Popeye's, and get another one free. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score great deals on Uber Eats all season long because it's not football without food. Popeye's offer valid through November 1st. Add eligible menu item to order prior to checkout. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. Is this, do you think it's a genetic thing? Do you think it's the way you ate as a child? What do you think? I think psychological, a lot of it. It was like the only thing I had control of as a child is like food. It was like, and a scarcity mindset as well. Just like the way that I, you know, think about food is just, you know, probably not the healthiest. So for me, it's just easier to say like, I don't eat these things. Because like, if I eat bread or something like that, it just hurts my stomach now, you know? And I just, I can feel, like, the difference when I don't eat it, you know? I just feel better, I have more energy. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And once you get your body working on ketones too, the thing is you've just, your brain functions better. That's one of the more interesting things. This is why people take things like, like ketone. What is it? Ketone IQ? That stuff's great. Like you just down one of those little shots and it puts you into ketosis temporarily. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. They're exogenous ketones. I think the guy who just invented those just died. He was also a guy that worked for Balco Labs. He developed the clear, that shit that Barry Bonds took. Okay. The steroids. So this guy was a chemist. He was a scientist. I think someone, oh, I think Chris Bell, Chris Bell or Mark, I think it was Mark Bell, just posted about it on his Instagram page that this guy just died. This guy was like one of America's great chemists. And he developed, developed a lot of these things, including exogenous ketones, according to Mark. But that's one of the things that I noticed when I went into, when I did the carnivore diet is that immediately my brain just started functioning better, which is what I try to eat most of the time. Like this morning I ate sausage and eggs and sausage from an animal that I shot. I like to do that. I eat like, I had sable. This is the guy. So this is Mark's Instagram. The greatest chemist of our time and possibly any other. Patrick Arnold is dead. Patrick Arnold's the guy who made the cream and the clear for the Bonds and McGuire. all that Bonds and McGuire blasted home runs off of, supposedly. In addition to those incredible inventions, he also brought exogenous ketones to the market. What happened to that guy? How did he die? That's an interesting picture to put up. Yeah. Looks like Oswald looking at Jack Ruby. He looks healthy. I want to know how he died. I wonder how old that picture was. Organic chemists. Andrastine Dion, too. Oh, he had all those pro-hormones or whatever those things were that people were taking that weren't totally steroids, but they were kind of steroid-like. How did he die, does it say? It's a weird website, too. He died at 60. Maybe he's experimenting on himself. Bonds just put in cause of death. I know, it should come up. You would think a guy who's working on, like, performance and fitness. Does it say? No. There's a Reddit post, but I don't know. When you click on what happened to David Arnold. That's somebody else. Oh, Patrick Arnold. Yeah. Huh. So it just doesn't say how he died? Nope. And it just happened, so there's not a lot of information about him. Oh, okay. So it hasn't been released yet. Yeah. Doesn't say. He made a lot of roids. You gotta wonder. The dude is, like, doing so much work in anabolic steroids. He worked for Balco. They were the ones that were making undetectable steroids. You know about that whole story? Mm-mm. This is back in the--wasn't that in the '90s, Jamie? Mm-mm. the the mcguire around 2000 so um they developed steroids that were undetectable so when they would test for steroids what they would do is they would take because when i guess the way it works is when they're doing a steroid test they're looking for very specific molecules so they invented a molecule that had like additional things attached to it where it wouldn't show up i'm probably butchering that but essentially they were undetectable steroids one of them was called the clear and the guy who ran the lab was called balco laboratories this guy victor conti who eventually went to jail for that and then when he i don't know why he went to jail but he got out and then became an anti-steroid sort of activist and he was i don't want to say activist but he was essentially he was ratting people out and saying that this guy's probably doing steroids and this is how he's doing it and then a lot of uh athletes were using his company to do steroids and he was doing steroids and he was doing steroids and he was doing steroids to use steroid free performance enhancing supplements that were legal so he would show you what's legal and how to do it he knew a lot about it because he did the illegal stuff too interesting yeah i've got i've gotten a couple steroid shots like before a show like if my voice goes out like what kind is like a cortisone or i guess that's what it is it's like that one that they shoot in your ass cheek hmm what does that do like for your voice when your voice just brings you back man it's got to be rough when a fucking singer loses their voice yeah i mean people have asked me before like what my warm-up routine is and like i've never had one and a few cigarettes a couple cigarettes it used to be shot of whiskey um if i was really in dire straits i would take uh like a handful of sugar-free gummy bears and put uh boiling water on that really and then the gummy bears would like coat my throat huh like honey ginger lemon yeah a hot water and lemon is a really good one there's something about that that really it's like time off is what fucks my voice up more than anything time off yeah really oh so like your vocal cords get out of shape interesting because it's hard to like keep them up you know right unless you're like going in your garage and screaming for two hours a night you know that's crazy i never thought about it like that like your vocal cords are essentially a muscle like any other and they develop over time and you get endurance that makes sense yeah so like the pandemic was like the first time that a lot of us like had any extended amount of time off from the road and we all started noticing like or at least me like i came back like hurting a little bit oh that makes sense i saw guns and roses in athens greece and uh axl rose you know has that crazy singing style yeah it's like a like and that has to be fucking hell on your voice and you know the show was amazing but his voice is not the same it's just there's no way it can be um i know stephen tyler like he's back is he yeah so he quit for a while because he was like i can't sing and then he healed up and now he's back again i don't know exactly what he did but i i played with him back in january and like the boys really always back no shit that's fucking great singing his ass off that's fucking great i love to hear that i saw the stones a couple years ago at uh circuit of the americas and mick jagger can still wail yeah he could still wail that that was a great fucking show almost surreal he's got a lot of energy too man so much energy it's crazy he has two trailer trucks that he brings with him that are just gym equipment wow everywhere they go two big ass trailer trucks just filled with gym equipment they say he works out seven hours a day seven days a week that's awesome and he's 180 000 years old he's still up there still and then keith richards opposite approach whiskey cocaine lsd no problems still there too so it's like yeah find something you love and stick with it i know it's so funny like it makes me think like we went out with willie a few times and uh willie's got like like most artists he's got like 18 tractor trailers and he's got like a lot of stuff he's got like a lot of stuff he's got like trailers back there but like i don't know if you've been to a willie nelson show recently it's like there's nothing on the stage i'm like what's in all these fucking trucks i never really got to the bottom of that but there's like seven or eight truck drivers it's all weed it must be all weed or something you go in there's all grow lights and plants and shit he's got that drink that they sell oh yeah he's got that weed drink well his remedy yeah and ron white brought some to the green room of the comedy mother show and someone was saying oh you can't get that's not real i'm like it's real as fuck dude that stuff's very legit it's real yeah it's very i don't know what the rules are the laws are it feels like it's starting to become like a gray area it should be i mean they just made it schedule three okay so what that means is and i mean listen it's a great step in the right direction i'm very happy that the president did that it really should be regulated the same way alcohol is it should be for adult use 21 and older it shouldn't be maybe i wonder what the issue well i'm sure there's a bunch of issues right there's like lobbies that are trying to keep it illegal like there's the alcohol lobby that doesn't want it legal because it cuts down on alcohol sales and i know they lobby to try to make sure those laws stay in place and then unfortunately you have prison guard unions that lobby for it which is fucked right they want to keep their job and so the way they keep their job is to keep people in prison and they want to keep their job and so people locked up and the way they keep people locked up is keep laws that don't make sense like it's fucked up fucked up that's a that's an evil fucking that it's it just doesn't make any sense if you can buy alcohol you should be able like i'm not saying you should drink alcohol you don't drink alcohol anymore like i said i took months off it's like you should have some self control and i know some people don't but get your shit together you should but other people are fine go to the bar have a drink or two go home go out to dinner have a drink go at home have a drink while they're watching tv and they're fine yeah it should be a personal choice no adult should be able to tell you what you can and can't do and be able to lock you up in a fucking cage if you don't listen that's nuts and in a free country in this country is as free as it gets in this world there's no way weed should be illegal it should be regulated and it should be only for people that are adults where you know you have to be 21 to be able to buy it look it's never stopped kids from getting alcohol they still get alcohol it's not stopping kids right now from getting weed they can still get weed but if it was legal and regulated first of all we'd get taxes from it and that would be huge for every state you'd get a ton of tax money that you're not getting right now and also you would keep people from getting locked up for their own personal choices which is just insane yeah i don't know what you're talking about i mean i don't know if you're talking about personal use these days that's pretty rare but there's still there's just way too many laws yeah i mean it's interesting too like if you have like um like cbd flour like technically that's legal yes so like if you just put some of your cannabis in a cbd container like are there ways to like test that on the side of the road like if you get pulled and they search your car not on the side of the road but they could confiscate it and then test it i think But there's weird things about like legalization I was watching a YouTube video about what Texas's laws were. And Texas's laws are the amount of THC by volume. So the thing about that is if you get like gummies, like a 10 milligram gummy will pass that by volume and be legal. So are you saying that people can take 10 milligram THC gummies and that's legal? Because they'll fuck you up. Like if you don't smoke weed, a 10 milligram THC gummy will have you going, oh. Take two of those and who knows what's going to happen to you. I just watched this movie that a friend of mine was in this movie, Lanny Wilson. And we watched the movie and I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody. But it turns out that the girl like she went to jail because she was impaired while driving and she was impaired by weed. And I was like, that's kind of gay. Well, it depends on how much you took. Yeah, but. If you take 200 milligrams to get behind a wheel, you're not even exactly sure what the road is. 200 milligrams is a lot, yeah. Right, so that's pretty impaired. That's equivalent to like eight shots of whiskey and then getting in your truck. Yeah. You're impaired. I guess you're right. I don't think you should drive on weed. I don't. I definitely don't think you should drive fucked up. But it's like the same. Like I don't advocate drinking and driving either. But if you have like one drink and drive, like you're going to feel like a little relaxed and lubricated. But I don't know how much you'll be. And it also varies on who the person is. If the person is used to drinking all the time, one drink is not going to do a damn thing to them. But for some people, one drink will make you drive stupid. You'll do stupid things. Yeah. It's all a personal responsibility thing. That's the bottom line. That's the bottom line about all of it. And yeah, you shouldn't be out there drinking and driving. You shouldn't be out there eating 500 milligram edibles and fucking driving in a car. No. No. I remember one time my drummer had this like THC spray. Have you ever fucked with that? Oh, yeah. We had that back in California. Yeah. Like breath spray. Yeah. And I was still drinking at the time. And me and my wife were both just hammered. And we were on this ferry. Like the tour bus goes onto the ferry. And the ferry carries you over from. From France to the U.K. And we were like sitting in the lounge area on the ferry. Or lounge area on the ferry, rather. And he had this spray. And I was like, it's not doing anything. Oh, no. Me and my wife both kept just spraying it. No. And I woke up in my bed just like in a cartoon. Just like completely removed from reality. And yeah, it was a bad, bad scene. I remember one time I took a day. I had these THC breath strips that they used to sell. And the problem with these things. And this is back in the pre-legalization days of pre-2016 in California. And so each store you would get weed at. Like they would have medical stores. So you could go to a doctor and say, hey, doc, I got a headache. And they go, you need medicine. And they would write your prescription. And then you can go. And like there's always reasons to have it. Just like there's reasons to have Tylenol. Do you get a headache? Yeah. Well, then you need it. Do you have a backache? Yeah. So you could get it pretty easy. And they had these breath strips. And I took one and I got on a plane. And I closed my eyes when I was lying on the plane. And I was watching neon, like cartoon characters that are made out of neon light. And they were having sex. It was an orgy of. And I was just lying there with my eyes closed watching these cartoon neon characters fuck. And they were fucking in like complete. Blackness like void. So it was just the colors of their weird bodies just banging each other. And then they would shift shapes. And another one will pile on. And they were I was like, this is crazy. It was very psychedelic. It was almost like but when I'd open my eyes, the world was normal. Yeah, it wasn't like I was the world was wiggling. And and I was just I didn't have anything to do. I was flying all the way in New York. It was a six hour flight. By the time it landed, I'd sobered up. But I was like, this is great. Like, how much is in these fucking things? Because it's they're not. They're not making them in the same labs where they're making fucking Tylenol. Sure. You know, I mean, it's some hippie, some dude who's like pouring weed into a machine and can't remember whether I put weed in there because he's high as fuck. So he adds double. They're very inconsistent. It's like the micro doses that I used to get in Macon, Georgia, as like some of these are stronger than other ones. He's like, yeah, depending on the day, my boy was like, you know, he's going to ride it for whatever it is. Well, that's why we need legalization regulation. That's the beautiful thing about whiskey. You get a glass of whiskey, you get a shot. You know exactly what that shot's going to do. The shots of whiskey have been having the same impact on human beings for hundreds of fucking years. You can quantify it. Yeah. And that's how it should be with all these things. But the problem is when they're outlawed, you know, some of them are, you know, a glass of wine. Some of them are fucking moonshine. Like you need regulation. And it's the idea that there's law. There's laws against people's personal choices. Just fucking stupid, man. There's plenty of laws that are good. Don't murder people. Don't rob. Don't rape. Don't do this. Don't do that. That's great. Don't vandalize. Great. Great laws. Makes sense. Better society. Laws on personal choices, especially things that you might enjoy, like having a joint with your wife, you know, after dinner and just sitting there and watching Netflix together. Like the fucking armed thugs can burst into your house and take the joint away from you. I mean, like who are we protecting, who are we serving, who are we protecting and serving with that? That's dumb. It's just bad for society. And it creates this business. Once a business is established, the business of enforcement, once that business is established, that business doesn't want to go away. Because now you have a bunch of people whose jobs depend on enforcing laws and enforcing these things that don't make any sense. And they want to protect that because that's their livelihood. So now you've got a quagmire. Now you're in a fucking terrible situation. There's no easy way out other than ripping the Band-Aid off and making it legal. You're also propping up the cartels. That's the other problem with it being completely illegal in this country, federally. It's like, well, guess what? There's still a demand for it. So legal companies that actually employ people and give the employees health care and, you know, have rules and regulations. No, they're not making it. So they're not growing it. So instead, you have fucking cartels that are growing it. In California, on public land, because if you get caught, it's just a misdemeanor because it's legal in California. So literally, I think it's more than 80 percent of all the weed that's sold in the United States that's illegal is grown in California on public lands by the cartel. And they use toxic pesticides and herbicides. They use all kinds of shit that you're not allowed to use in normal farming. Right. And, you know, the only reason why it exists is because it's illegal. It's because we've made these stupid fucking laws. So now that it's Schedule 3, it's in the same category as like Tylenol with codeine, which is not bad. It's better, certainly better than Schedule 1, which is ridiculous. So now, hopefully, once they do more testing and more studies, they can get to a point where federally it's legal and regulated. That would be the best case for everybody. Just in the same categories, alcohol. Get all that tax money from it. And then don't make criminals out of American citizens that just want to make personal choices. This episode is brought to you by OnX Offroad. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes that are tucked away, dispersed campsites? With OnX Offroad, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off-roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions, and difficulty ratings. So you'll know. If your vehicle's capable before you go. Unlike other apps, OnX gives you turn-by-turn directions on the trail, and their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You'll also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try OnX Offroad for 50% off. Go to OnXMaps.com slash Joe Rogan. When did it get scheduled as Schedule 1? Well, the whole Schedule 1 thing, this is what I talked about when I went to the White House recently, which is a hilarious thing to say for a retard like me. That I helped get things scheduled. I mean, when it all goes down in the history books, they attach my name to this. It's going to be really cool. It's going to be really confusing. They're going to be like, fucking that guy? What? How? What the fuck happened? So when, in 1970, the Richard Nixon administration passed the Controlled Substances Act, and it made DMT, psilocybin, LSD, all these different things, it made them Schedule 1. So the idea is that there was no benefit, including Ibogaine, which is crazy, which means it has no medical benefit. bit. And harmful and addictive, all these different qualities that they attached to it. But the only reason they did that was to target the civil rights movement, the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. That's what they were doing. They didn't like the fact that these people were causing trouble and then they were organizing marches and doing all these different things that were disrupting the government. And there was also this movement where people were like, why are we living the way we're living? Like this was the 60s. Like why are we doing what we're doing? Like, well, I don't want to be like my parents. They're not happy. You know, I want to live a life that's like freer. I want to be filled with love and joy and I want to, you know, have a good time and follow the Grateful Dead around. Like so a lot of people in government were very concerned with this new movement. And if you go and like music is a great example. Like if you look at the music of the 1950s and then you look at the music of the 1960s, like what the fuck happened? Like if you look at the music of 2016 and the music of 2026. Not much difference. Right. Right. It's all great. It's all. But it's like it's not there's not some revolutionary, crazy new change. But you saw that from 1959 to 1969. There is a radical difference. A radical difference. 1950. You got like you go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix. Like, OK, what the fuck happened? Something crazy must have happened. And it's drugs. It's psychedelic drugs. It's like the stone type theory. And, you know. Our modern society. Exactly. To be able to see it. Exactly. And this terrified the administration. And they were really worried that they were going to completely lose control of the country. And so they passed this Controlled Substances Act. And that happened in 1970. And from that time on, we've been fucked, you know, for 56 fucking years. We've been under the grip of this stupid fucking law that was passed by the Nixon administration. And it didn't make any sense. Some of the drugs that they added to aren't even psychoactive. They just threw a bunch of stuff in there. And they missed a bunch of potent ones. Yeah. They missed 5-Methoxy-DMT. They missed 5-MeO-DMT, which is one of the most potent psychedelics, if not the most potent psychedelic. You used to be able to buy that online. Oh, wow. Dude, there was a company that you could order from. And they would send you a fucking jug of it as big as this. Now, the amount that gets you. Like, blasted into the center of the universe and introduces you to God is, like, the size that goes on your pinky. Yeah. Like, your pinky nail. Like, that amount. You smoke that, you'll see God. Wow. And you could just buy a fucking jar of it online. There was a company called the American Chemical Company. American Chemical Company or American Chemical Corporation. And you used to be able to just buy 5-Methoxy-DMT. And they would just send it to you like a jar of vitamins. Wow. And then you could go to head shops and buy salvia. Oh, yeah. So, salvia is a fucking insanely potent psychedelic, which, by the way, is also sage. Like, sage is the same family, the same genus as salvia. So, like, think about it. Sage meaning wise, like an old sage. Yeah. And meanwhile, that is one of the most potent psychedelics in the world. And so, kids were going to head shops. And buying salvia. I don't know if they've made that illegal now. They probably have, right? Is salvia illegal now? I think, I don't know. So, Ari Shafir on Brian Redband's podcast. Do you know this story? No. Okay. Ari Shafir went on Brian Redband's podcast and took a giant hit of salvia and went under for, like, 10 minutes. And when he came back, he said that he had lived six months. Six months under the water with, like, with an entire different community of human beings under the water. Had relationships. Had a job. Like, had a six-month experience and then came back in that 10 minutes. And he was so confused. He was so baffled. He's like, I had a life under there. I had a girlfriend. I had friends. He goes, I had all these experiences. Oh, shit. Yeah. Ari's crazy, man. He's crazy. He's fun. He's fun. He came out to my show in New York. He's the man. He is the man. But, I mean, that's how potent this fucking salvia stuff is. By the way, a lady had a very similar experience recently who went into a coma. So she was in a coma for an extended period of time. I want to say it was, like, a few months. And when she came out, she had a whole life that she said. She had triplets. And she had, like. She was married. All these different things. Here's a story. She asked for her triplets after waking up from a coma. Doctors say they never existed. When she woke from a coma, first thing she did was ask for her three daughters. Medical staff was stunned. The response shattered her entire world. Just like that, the children she had nursed, watched grow, and deeply cared for over seven years were gone. So, she was placed in a medically induced coma for three weeks. And what followed was a dream of a lifetime, quite literally. She was obviously not aware that she was in a coma. Instead, she slipped into a dream. And a lifetime unfolded before her eyes. Talking to the outlet, the teen recalled having extremely intense dreams and nightmares. She was not aware that she was in a coma at the time. So, those dreams became her reality. So, she became a mother. She said it felt so real. She felt the physical and emotional pain throughout the hallucination. I could feel so many things. When I dreamed about giving birth, I felt the stress. I also felt a lot of pain in this dream. I gave birth to. I gave birth to triplets, who I named Mila, Miles, and Miley. Miley died shortly after birth. I felt so awful, overwhelmed with sadness and guilt, she recalled. She remembers the first skin-to-skin contact that she had with her babies. It was incredible. I felt an overwhelming wave of love, she added. In her dream, she lived for seven years and watched her daughters grow up. Each had their own personalities. One was quite shy. The other was a bundle of energy. I remember walks, meals we shared. In bed time stories, she loved them with all her heart. And then she woke up from the coma and was told that her children never existed. That's when they told me they didn't exist. I was in shock. I was so convinced that it was real, that the time I saw my parents again, I told them they were grandparents. Whoa. It makes you wonder, what is reality? What is this thing that we're currently experiencing? Yeah. And we're currently experiencing this. This thing. But what is this? Is this everything? Is this the whole thing? Or is this like one channel on an infinite radio? And just while we're on that channel, we think this is the radio. Right. Maybe when you go to sleep, maybe that's just as real as being awake. It's a heavy thought. But the idea that you just shut off every night is bananas. Yeah. We look forward to it. Oh, Cameron. We can't wait to just go away. Go away from you. Can't wait to not exist. And if I don't get enough sleep, whatever happens during the dream time, the sleep time, the recovery, I feel it. My waking life, I haven't done what I'm supposed to do by sleeping for an extended period of time. So this reality is compromised. This reality, I'm dumber. My memory sucks. I'm more tired. I don't have any energy. I can't wait to go to sleep. Can't wait to shut off so I can pay back the void. Pay back the void, the time I owe into the dreamland of bizarre dreams. Yeah. And just the symbolism of dreams, too. I've been having a lot of crazy dreams lately. Like what? I dream about snakes a lot, which is a good sign. Is it? Yeah. Dreaming about snakes evidently just represents shedding your skin, going into something new. You know, growing. Or you're surrounded by people who want to get you. Or maybe that. Yeah. Which both can be true. You know the music business. Yeah. There's a lot of snakes. Isn't it every business, though? Yeah. I mean, just the idea, like the business side is just so in contrast to like the artistic sensibility. You know? An artist is supposed to be. Not supposed to be, but just like psychological, our makeup is more just like open and just more just like giving and wanting to share your craft with somebody and more emotional, you know? Yeah. And then having to be like a shark and having to think like these snakes. Contracts. Yeah. Sign the dotted line, Marcus. You're going to make so much money. You're going to make so much money, Marcus. It's only seven years. It's just seven years. With an extension. With options. With options. I was about to say. You'll be free. Don't worry about these song rights. Yeah. You'll have other songs in the future. Right. That will be even better. Oh, good night. Bet on yourself, Marcus. Take the money. Don't you want a big house? Don't you want a fancy car? You need a big house. Have you ever seen Lightknot with a dog? devil uh yes that's fucking good yeah that's the talk show yeah yeah that is great man who made that uh that's a good question that's a really good movie we watched it on the bus one night i was like whoa that was like 2019 or something it was heavy yeah this was uh 2024 oh it's an australian movie uh jack delroy the host of a failing it's in 1977 jack delroy the host of a failing late night show decides decides to film a halloween special however the broadcast takes a dark turn unleashing evil into the nation's living rooms yeah it's a dope movie it's really fun it's fucking scary shit too it was scary yeah it was good bro you know what's fucking scary as shit and really good that i just found out about from my daughter there's a new show called well it's not even new it's like four seasons it's called from from yeah is it on like uh it's on apple tv i don't know if it's an apple show but it's on apple tv it's with the dude from lost one of the dads from lost harold he's been in a lot of things yeah he's great and the show is fucking terrifying it is it's very original and very weird um so it came out in 2022 interesting season premiered on epics oh okay what's it on now is it just on apple tv release epics mgm plus yeah so it says in 2018 youtube red remember we were talking about youtube red canada italy it's on paramount plus india it's on amazon prime i was on all over the place huh mgm pluses so it appeared on epics i don't even know what mgm plus is maybe that's just the company that's the production company so in 2026 they renewed the series for a fifth and final season it's fucking good man it's good and it's really scary it's really scary and fucking creepy and horrific it's about these people that um are stuck in this town that doesn't make any sense like the town doesn't make any sense like they can't get out of the town and at night time people come out of the woods but they're not people and they're like these monsters and if you let them into your house you can't let them into your house but if you let them into your house they butcher you and tear you apart and people they try to trick you into letting you letting them into your house like i'm not doing it justice it's like it sounds stupid but here's the pitch but it's it's really scary man it's scary and really creepy to the point like i'm watching i get anxiety and i don't like watching shit like that before i go to bed because then i get like weird dreams and i start getting because it's like children are in trouble in it i'm a father and when i see children in trouble i get i fucking freak out you know there's part of you to like the sheep dog and you know just like right so it's it's a good show though my wife gets on to me i like it's like forensic files i love it you like that before you go to bed i don't know why that's crazy that's my comfort how people murdered people yeah this episode is brought to you by visible as fall hits 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follow every drive touchdown and game changing moment across the biggest matchups of the week no matter which team you follow or which game you're watching you're always connected with one app one app every sport all 50 states new draft kings customers sign up with code rogan spend just five bucks and get one hundred fifty dollars in total rewards within 14 days includes all markets that's code rogan in partnership with draft kings the crown is yours event trading offered by draft kings predictions a cftc registered futures commission merchant trading involves risk of loss market availability varies eligibility restrictions apply fifty dollars every seven days via click to claim issued in non-withdrawable predictions dollars that expire in one year nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and or free to play sports contest availability varies by state terms at dk and g dot co slash offer limited time offer i remember that uh show on hbo the autopsy show that was like one of the first ones okay do you know that show the autopsy one it was this guy dr michael badden and what he was was a forensic scientist that would catch people that had murdered people and got away with it they would exhume bodies and find things and it was all these different cases of where someone had gotten away with it and they were like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die murder but then they discovered how they did it it's very very interesting wow because people are fucking weird man like you know a lot of like wives poisoning their husbands like multiple husbands died of similar ways and yep nurses that poisoned their the people under their care there's some fucked up people out there there's some fucked up people out there man and the crazy thing is they get away with it that's the crazy thing is for every person that's been killed by a every one that michael badden catches how many of them get away with it yep like what percentages of murders in america go unsolved let's put this into perplexity our ai sponsor and find out what the d what do you think it is what percentage of murders go unsolved in america uh that's a good question i mean yes 50 60 percent whoa but i i don't i don't know how you would quantify it i you'd find out well someone gets murdered and they don't catch anybody oh right right okay yeah yeah it's half wow so you're saying there's a chance approximately 40 to 50 percent of murders in the united states go unsolved means that roughly half of all homicide cases do not result in arrest or resolution so uh i was talking to somebody and um someone who lives in the united states in their community got arrested because the wife went missing and uh they got the wife's dna from this guy's chainsaw they have no body they have no evidence other than there's some dna on his chainsaw and you know he's playing stupid so he's in jail now but everybody that knows him and like like these these friends of mine they know the family they knew him they knew her and he's just in jail and they don't know if they have enough evidence to convict him and so he's been in jail for a while now and they're trying to gather enough evidence for trial but all they have is like dna i don't even know what that means like how much dna like did he clean the chainsaw and not do a good job i don't know what that means but they got she like out like trimming hedges who knows that's the thing it's like you could use a chainsaw and accidentally scratch yourself like you don't have to cut yourself it doesn't even have to be on like if you're moved if you're you know taking a chain i don't know why the wife would be taking a chainsaw out into the i mean some women are capable and they do it but my wife you know accidentally scraped your arm yeah with this chainsaw and they went over every blade with a swab they probably could find your dna and go oh my god you did it yeah i don't know i don't know what happened but apparently it's a chain saw and it's a chain saw and it's a chain saw and it's a chain saw and it's a chain saw and it's a chain saw and it's actually these people that i know believe that the husband chopped this lady up oh really yeah they think you did it they're fighting a lot and i remember when i was a kid my sister used to and like shane's actually got a really funny bit about how diabolical older sisters are and just my sister used to say i hope you go to jail for something you didn't do whoa i hope you get wrongfully convicted for something and you're in jail forever jesus christ terrible thing to say to somebody what did you do to her to make her say that to you who fucking knows that's so dark i hope you go to jail for something you didn't do is so evil wow we're very close now are you oh yeah well she's a kid she we were how old was she when she did that when she said that she's two years older than me so she must have been like nine or ten oh but people say things good stuff and i can they're just being kids yeah that's a diabolical mind though like that's how you want someone to suffer you want someone to emotionally suffer for something they didn't do forever her her and a neighbor boy it was a vacant house across from mine and they like locked me in the back fence and my sister was like this is where you live now whoa they were like unless you break that window and i was like i don't want to break the window and like sure enough like they said well we're not letting you out of this gate and i probably could have waited it out but i was like five or six so i just said all right so i took a brick to the window and they're like well we're gonna go tell on you now i was like wow really fucked up what the fuck does she do now uh my sister is actually she's a badass man she's uh she drives for the department of transportation um she's got her cdl she's awesome sounds uh like she has some devious thoughts in her mind she's yeah sounds like she should write books i know she's so smart that sounds very creative yeah you know like she's manipulating a five-year-old into breaking away so she could tell on him but as a seven-year-old yeah no she's she's awesome but uh actually i had a good friend i told that story too and she loved it so much she got me a a welcome mat from my house that said this is where you live now that's fucked up man where did she learn that kind of behavior probably my mom oh was your mom like that my mom was pretty wild yeah yeah mm-hmm yeah i had an interesting upbringing most artists do especially most interesting artists i don't know a lot of interesting artists that say like my childhood was perfect it was amazing there was so much love and everybody was really supportive and understanding yeah we talked a lot about stuff and yeah we spoke about our feelings mostly around the dinner table no there's there's always some sort of element of psychological torture involved or some kind of abandonment or some kind of sometime touchy uncle whatever it is yep something ignoring you yeah and just not making you a priority making you not feel special or making you feel like you're a burden there's something something that causes you to like want exorbitant amounts of attention from strangers sure yeah yeah but look that's where the great stuff comes from which is really wild like there's this concept that you cannot have good without evil and i think there's something to that i think it's just part of the human condition for whatever reason you you don't appreciate good unless you experience bad which is why rich kids are fucked you grow up rich with everything you've ever wanted there's no struggle it's so difficult for those people to ever be exceptional because they don't have the motivation they don't have that they haven't experienced the bad not much but they don't have that way like i remember i went on a hunting trip with uh my friend uh steve ranella and brian callan we went to alaska and it rained every day it rained like six days and we're soaking wet and we came back to la and uh it was sunny and i was driving my car and i had to call my friend steve and i said dude i have never been happier the sun hits my face i'm so appreciative i'm so and i've never felt like this like it's always like this in la yeah but it never meant anything to me it was just yep another day in la gotta go to work but this one day i was like just filled with gratitude and i was so happy the sun on my face felt so good and warm and and i realized like oh you have to suffer in order to really appreciate the good like if it's just all good you're you're not going to appreciate it you don't you need to appreciate it you need to appreciate it you need to evil people so that you really appreciate the people that are beautiful and that you love right you need people that suck so you appreciate people that are kind yeah you know you need people that are mean so you appreciate the ones that are nice yeah just people that are on the level just people that are like no agenda yeah just just kind people and it is that duality that kind of gives you perspective that's what i meditate on every day is perspective that's why i think it's so important to think about the other side of the spectrum and i think it's really important to think about the other side of the spectrum and i think the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum is when you think about the other side of the spectrum okay trauma bonding yeah we're away from okay trauma bonding yeah we're away from okay trauma bonding yeah we're away from the cunts yeah we're away from the vampire the cunts yeah we're away from the vampire the cunts yeah we're away from the vampire cunts it's like cunts it's like cunts it's like my boy charlie crockett you know um my boy charlie crockett you know um my boy charlie crockett you know um charlie always says like you can do what charlie always says like you can do what charlie always says like you can do what they do but they can't do what you do they do but they can't do what you do they do but they can't do what you do charlie's great he's a man charlie's great he's a man charlie's great he's a man interesting dude too interesting dude too interesting dude too very interesting dude very you know very interesting dude very you know very interesting dude very you know interesting life like the life that that interesting life like the life that that interesting life like the life that that guy had and guy had and guy had and playing street music for so long and playing street music for so long and playing street music for so long and finally getting discovered finally getting discovered finally getting discovered very like again but that's how you get very like again but that's how you get very like again but that's how you get a person like that when you talked about a person like that when you talked about a person like that when you talked about his childhood that up it wasn't his childhood that up it wasn't his childhood that up it wasn't crazy he was basically just on his own crazy he was basically just on his own from the time he was a teenager from the time he was a teenager from the time he was a teenager just just just running around just running around just running around just singing songs yep singing songs yep singing songs yep you know like you know like you know like that's how you get a person like that that's how you get a person like that that's how you get a person like that yeah you can't create a charlie crockett yeah you can't create a charlie crockett yeah you can't create a charlie crockett in a lab no or a jelly roll you know you in a lab no or a jelly roll you know you in a lab no or a jelly roll you know you don't create those in the lab they got don't create those in the lab they got I got to go to jail first. You know what I mean? But it's like, I mean, Jelly's like one of the most beautiful people I've ever met in my life. He's one of the nicest, sweetest, kindest, warm, affectionate people. He hugs everybody, tells everybody he loves them, and he means it. And because he's been through hell, you know? And that's how you make a person like that. Jelly's in, like, a constant state of, like, when you run into somebody after they've had an ayahuasca experience. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He has this constant, like, gratitude. Yes. That I feel like kind of fades even with people who have, like, ayahuasca journeys or experiences. Yeah. You know? He's just, I don't know. There's something really pure to that. Yeah, he's maintained it, especially now that he's on this, like, health journey. I think that sometimes the. The momentum of life takes over, and you kind of forget those beautiful moments. You're grounded in these moments where you realize, like, God, I'm so lucky to have a beautiful family that I love and friends that I love and be able to do what I do for a living. God, I'm so lucky. And that feeling, like, sometimes it goes away because you're dealing with this and that and contracts and fuck, and then the New York Times wrote a hit piece on you. Oh, shit. And you forget. Yeah. You lose your perspective. But I almost feel like you need all those other shitty elements to just reinforce the good elements. That there's this constant sort of mechanism that's going on where there's this constant process of pros and cons, of negatives and positives, and they're duking it out to see who rides. And the more the negative comes at you, the more it has this creative desire inside of you to excel with yourself. Your music or your art or whatever it is that you do, to just push past it. I mean, think about some of the great songs that people have written just about the struggles that they've gone through, just even in the music business, you know? Yeah. Like Leonard Skinner, Working for MCA. You know, there's a lot of those songs like that, where it's just like people just want to tell you what the fuck they've been through. Yeah. Le Chic, Freak Out. What's that about? What's that about? Like, they weren't allowed to get into Studio 54. They wouldn't let them in. And the song was originally written as Fuck You, you know? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Fuck you. Oh, really? Yeah. Instead it's Freak Out? Yeah. And that ended up being a major hit, you know? That was because they couldn't get into a club? Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Pretty crazy. Yeah. Yep. But it is just about threading that needle of like. Wanting more for yourself, but for the right reasons. And that's something that I think about every day. It's just like having a virtuous reason to want more, you know? Not just for the sake of having it or for hoarding wealth or anything like that. It's like I want to work to where I can get to a place where, you know, my wife and I can have our own bus and raise kids on the road, you know? But you can't do that unless you have a certain profit margin on the road, you know? So I'm always kind of trying to think of like. Virtuous causes to want more, you know? Because in reality, you know, I should be grateful for everything that I do have. But also, speaking of that, you know, and trying to meditate on the things that I'm grateful for every day. That's a good perspective. I think people get trapped in working towards a result instead of thinking about the process. Right. I try to be process-oriented. I try to like think about whatever I'm doing. Just try to. Be better at it and do a better job at it. And I think the other stuff sort of takes care of itself. If you have the right people. And that's where the evil cunt vampires come in. Because they'll steal all that goodwill. Like if you leave the door open. Like on that TV show on From, you let them in, they'll fucking tear you apart. They'll tear you up. Yeah. Just, and it's hard because you don't want to become jaded. Right. You don't want to become like, I feel like I meet a lot of people out there who, like they're open and they're kind, but they're not interested in making any new friends, you know. Right. It's like they have their circle. And on one hand, I kind of understand that. I get that, you know. But it's hard, you know, you got to maintain a certain level of perspective not to become like angry. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. And it's hard to know who you can let into your circle too. Like you got to give people a stress test. Yep. It's almost like you have to give them a baggie and then have a fake cop grab them and say, where'd you get it? Marcus King gave it to me. Oh, gotcha, bitch. I ran into this guy recently. And basically what happened was like, I was on Jam Cruise years ago and I was super fucked up and I was supposed to sit in with this band called Naughty Professor from New Orleans. And they're like. That's a great name. They're so good. And they're just outrageously talented musicians. And I had gone out on an adventure that morning on a catamaran. I didn't know what the fuck a catamaran was. I didn't know if it was land. I didn't know if it was land air or sea vessel. Right. So we go out there. Turns out it's a boat. And we go like snorkeling in the Cayman Islands. And we're just like looking at all the fish. And like my girlfriend at the time and a bass player friend of mine from a band called Lettuce. His name's Jesus. So out there with my girlfriend at the time. His name is Jesus? Yeah. Not Jesus? Well, his name's Eric, but he goes by Jesus. Oh, boy, Eric. Oh, boy. How did Eric get in your circle? I don't think. I don't think it was a messiah complex or anything. I think it's just a nickname that stuck. But they were tripping on acid. And I was drunk on rum and beer. And just out there waiting. And like when we came up for air, the boat or we had drifted quite a ways from the boat. And like we couldn't get their attention. And like the waves started crashing. And like a storm started rolling in. Oh, fuck. And like, you know, I'm not the strongest swimmer, you know, but we were. We were basically, you know, we were treading water out there for like 40 minutes. Holy shit, dude. You know, we were we were going to drown. And finally, the dude jumped off the boat and came out there. And then he was like yelling at me because I didn't have flippers on. I was just out there with just my shorts on and some goggles. And he signaled for the boat to come around and they pulled us up out of the water. So after that, we were celebrating our life, you know. So I got completely hammered. And then. I was on the boat and I was like, well, I need to pick me up, you know, because I got to sit in with these guys. And they're like college educated, like jazz musicians. So this guy comes over. He's like, hey, man, you know, you two ski. I was like, yeah, me up. And he pulled out a spoon and he digs it down in the bag. And I go to take it. And it's like a small little mountain. I was like, give me a little more. And he gave me some more. And big snort. My whole face went numb. And I was like. And it stung. And I was like, whoa, what the fuck was that? And he was like, oh, it's just a little blow. And I was like, no, it wasn't. And like he said, yeah, it was. And I grabbed him by the shirt. And I said, what the fuck did you give me, motherfucker? And he looked at his buddy. Like, well, I had him, you know, like this. And he said, hey, what bag did you give me, bro? And he was like, the blue one. And he's like, oh, no. And he looked at me. And I was like, what was it? And he's like, it's ketamine. Oh! So I'm like. That went totally the wrong direction. But I ran into that guy at the Grand Ole Opry. And he came into my dressing room. He was like, hey, remember me? Wrong bag. I was like, yeah, I remember you. Yeah, I don't like you. Yeah, you kind of put me in a weird spot. What was that like, taking ketamine after you almost died? Man, it was heavy, you know? I basically, like. From what I recall, like, I became part of the boat. That's how I remember it. Like, my feet were, like, in the deck, you know? And, like, I was moving the whole boat with every step that I took. That's what I remember. Whoa. Yeah. But there was this one guy that kept trying to get me to come play a festival in, like, New Mexico. And I kind of put him off the whole week. And then he ran into me. And, like. I just remember his eyes getting big like saucers. I don't know what I said to him, but it was some crazy shit. Or it wasn't English at all, probably. 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Right now, millions of people are dealing with stolen accounts, fraudulent loans, and the exhausting process of proving who they are to banks, creditors, and credit bureaus. LifeLock helps you fight back. They monitor your personal and financial information. Alerting you when something looks suspicious. And if identity theft does happen, LifeLock has live, U.S.-based experts who step in and fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't fight that battle alone. Get LifeLock identity theft protection. Visit LifeLock.com and save up to 30% your first year with promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE or go to LifeLock.com slash JRE. J-A-R-E for 30% off. Terms apply. Ketamine talk. Ketamine's a weird one, man. Yeah. Because there's a lot of people that are doing that right now for therapy. Yeah. Like Neil Brennan, a comedian, the co-creator of The Chappelle Show, he was the first person to tell me about it. Because Neil's had depression problems most of his life. And we were in L.A. and he said, we were in the hallway of the comedy store. He goes, I've been doing ketamine therapy for depression. And I go, how's that working out? Is it good? He goes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't know what to expect. He goes, I thought, oh, you know, it's in a doctor's office. It's probably going to be just, I'm probably just going to close my eyes and I'll feel. He goes, no. He goes, it's fucking a full-blown trip. He goes, tripping balls in a doctor's office is fucking strange. I bet. He said it worked, though, for a little while. Like, he's done a bunch of different things. He did a ton. He's done a ton of ayahuasca. He's done a bunch of ketamine. He did, like, magnets on his brain, I think. He's done, like, a bunch of different things to try to, like, rewire the way his brain works. Yeah. Like, whatever it is. That's a journey I'm on, you know. I'm on antidepressants and I want to get off them. Which one's you on? I'm on Cymbalta. What does that one do? Well. Is it an SSRI? Yeah. So, basically, just kind of a, it's for a chemical imbalance, you know. But, like, the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and stuff was microdosing, you know, mushrooms. Yeah. Like, that's the most progress that I'd seen in my life. And I'm going to figure out some kind of strategy because, you know, like, being on antidepressants and them telling you, like, well, don't just stop taking them all at once or, you know, you could have seizures and shit. I'm like. I don't like that. I don't want to be, like, you know, enslaved by a drug, by a pharmaceutical drug, you know. Yeah, I'm. And it's like, also, like, now you just take this the rest of your life. It's like, what's the end result here? Yeah, Theo Vaughn's going through the exact same thing. And last time he was on the podcast, he was explaining it to me. And it freaks me out because I know Theo has had conversations before, like, even publicly. He had a conversation with me. He had a Netflix taping, and it didn't go well. It was like they actually shelved it. They never used it. You know, there was all these stories from people that were there saying he bombed. I think he just had kind of a breakdown. And then he was talking to the crowd, and there's a video of it where he said, you know, the people were shaking. Hey, we still love you. Thank you. Look, I'm just. I'm trying not to take my own life. That's what I'm trying to do right now. Yeah. And, like, you hear stuff like that, and you just go like, oh, Jesus Christ, I've known too many people that I didn't think were going to kill me. themselves and then did and then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events and freaking out i'm like oh jesus christ like i gotta help this dude and so i send him things about people getting off of them and apparently there's some doctors that specialize in getting people off of them but here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing that's not real they they used to think that that was what these things do that they treated a chemical imbalance but then recently studies have shown that they're that is not what they do they don't exactly know what they do and they kind of numb you in some sort of a way that helps some people and i've had some friends and i don't you know i don't want to make any blanket statements because i've had some friends that were suicidal um ari is one of them and he got on ssris and it helped him he got on you tried a bunch of things and you got on ssris and it helped him he got on you tried a bunch of things and he got on ssris and he got on ssris and it helped him he got on you tried a bunch of things and he got on you tried a bunch of things and he got on ssris and he got on ssris and he got on ssris of different ones found one that worked got on track and then his career started taking off and then as his career started taking off he started feeling much better he was on a good positive path in his life and then he slowly weaned himself off of those and now he's off of them so i think that might have saved his life i also know other people that have been on their on those things and taken their own lives so i don't know because that's part of one of the side effects is suicidal ideation it's one of the side effects but see if you can find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true the chemical imbalance reason for taking ssris it's they've measured like levels of dopamine serotonin and people that take it's not that's not what it's doing and they don't even exactly know why it works and it's a huge business that's part of the problem and it's also part of the problem these doctors are incentivized to prescribe people these things i had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and um was talking about their life and things not doing well and immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him ssris right away like right away here's something that you're never going to get off i'm gonna give it to you right away first meeting and he was like well i don't mean shouldn't i like try exercise shouldn't i try diet shouldn't i try just drinking you know like i i read something about like magnesium and red light therapy being far more effective than even ssris there is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an ssri but ssris do change brain chemistry in ways that can help some people um but so for decades depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance in the brain reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people with depression have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable imbalance that explains their symptoms experts now describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition and here's the other thing about depression it has to be connected to the state of your life like if you have a terrible job you're in a bad relationship you have abusive parents you know and you live in a shitty neighborhood who why why would you be happy oh i'm depressed oh you need a pill no do you is that what you need right well it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all these other things that we talked about shitty life shitty house shitty job shitty neighborhood shitty parents maybe you just need to make your life positive like figure out a way to get your life in a positive direction they've shown that exercise is way more effective than antidepressants at actually helping people with depression just exercise just fucking go on a nice long walk every day do some cardio you know take a fucking yoga class that's way better for people than these goddamn pills but these doctors are financially incentivized to prescribe these things and they prescribe them and hand them out like candy and again i think for some reason i don't know if it's a good idea to do that but i think it's a good idea to do that for some people it helps them and and that's the issue right i mean if it wasn't a financial incentive i think it would be like take these for six months you'll be better you know yeah it wouldn't be like forever this is you now even six months it's like okay how long does it take to get off them right because i know a guy who was on them and it took him a year and a half after he got off of them before he felt normal again for a year and a half he was fucked up because he was on them for i think he said he was on them for 10 years and then for a year and a half he got off of them and it just took that long before he finally like balanced the ship out like whatever waves he had to go through for a year and a half but he was like whatever i'm doing i am not going back on those goddamn pills so he wrote it out and came out on the other end it's fucked up too because it's it's hard to compare your experience to other people because everybody's brain chemistry is different yeah so you you could have two people on the same medication like you were you know saying earlier like um it's hard to even quantify like i even talked to my own sister or like other family members about you know their depression and their you know mental health uh journeys and um it's just it's interesting to think like you could say like it's it's hard to disprove it you know it takes two weeks for it to really get into your system and i've i had to try like three or four different ones before one really i felt felt like me you know like even at my grandmother's funeral like i just felt nothing i just felt numb and like i didn't notice it until i got into a situation where i was like this woman raised me and i can't feel anything wow and it wasn't until like a heavy moment like that that i was able to kind of have that perspective of like i can't feel anything i should be feeling something right now so i put those down and then uh it's like two weeks later i was having dinner with somebody and like this song came on that just brought all of it up there was this melody this wayne shorter melody that just uncorked everything and i was just sobbing at the dinner table you know wow um what did you feel like before you took them and what was wrong with the ones that you didn't stick with um well i don't know if it was a a matter of like maybe the dosage was too high and it was just kind of creating a block because like you got to feel some emotions right so how did you feel before you were taking them like what was what was bothering you that you realized you needed to take something well i think a lot of it had to do with just like substance abuse but i was feeling really anxious and really suicidal and um just really really depressed you know and um just this overwhelming sense of dread every day and just also just a lot of helplessness like just trying to go into different doctors and just like trying to figure out like what the fuck is it that's gonna finally you know take this away but also realizing like i rely on that a little bit you know for what i'm doing for a living you know so there's kind of that you know rely on the feelings like the depression yeah all that you know for writing and for creating um god that's a fucking conundrum yeah being fearful that it's going to take your drive away because you don't have anything to create for no substance right so it's a it is a strange battle it's one that i still kind of deal with but i'm just in a much better spot and i'm just kind of like i'm just kind of like i'm just in a much better spot on the journey so which ones did you try and what was wrong with the ones that you tried that they just numbed you up this was like six years ago so like 2020 um i can't remember the name of the specific medication i'm sure i have a an old bottle of it somewhere in my house but um yeah i don't know i just but what did it do it just made you to know just made me feel numb and then when you found one that worked what did that do differently so the one that i'm on now uh i mean like if i go a day without it like i like the withdrawal symptoms are like fairly severe just like headaches and just like complete like body tingling sensations and just like it's really scary stuff it's just you know so i'm gonna have to wean off of it slowly over time like i already did yeah i wonder if ibogaine would help with that well i mean you know it's like i was saying like microdosing mushrooms was like the first thing that i actually felt some kind of lasting result like now like when i get an anxiety attack or something i can recognize it as something just coming from an outside force you know an energy that's not aligning with me and i can recognize it i can work through it where like before i would just get a little bit of anxiety and then i would get a little overwhelmed you know but i think also just like not drinking and like having to socialize with people and having to have a little exposure therapy to like social interactions and life in general without just masking myself with drugs and alcohol has helped a lot too in that growth so when you first started taking it you there's all the stuff that you're doing in terms of like abusing alcohol and substances and that which definitely causes you to feel like shit and it definitely causes a lot of people to have like all sorts of angst and anxiety and just fucks with you this stuff alleviated that what i'm on now yeah uh i mean you know it has kind of and i'm afraid of like you know if i get off of it are those emotions going to come flooding back in you know so did it stop those emotions it this was all by the way why you were drinking right you're not drinking and how long has it been since you've drank like a year and a half okay but i mean those those emotions do come back every now and again even while you're on the stuff yeah but it significantly curbed them but it's like you know at what price i mean i was talking to my boy earnest about it because you know uh he's kind of a kindred spirit and like you know just talking about like i'll be working out and like getting after it feeling good listening to the stones or whatever and like i noticed like uh in my gym at my house like i guess they used to have a punching bag hanging up there and just like you see something like that and you just take a mental note of like i could probably hold my weight you know it's just like these oh you mean to hang yourself yeah like these thoughts just kind of come you know and it's i don't know where they come from they just they just pop in and as quick as they come they go and this is before you're taking the medication no i mean this is now a month ago you know okay did the did you have those thoughts before the medication oh yeah okay so they're still there yeah so whatever it's doing it's doing a little bit it's i mean it's got to be helping to a degree do you think it is i think it's so but i think it's it's really just about like your will and like your your mental just your ability just like we were talking about like with diets and stuff you know like does ozempic help curb you know appetites but you could also just exercise and just have willpower and i think mental health can be of a similar thing one of the things that people are finding about ozempic is it actually curbs your desire to be in love too yeah yeah that's a nasty thought yeah you you don't enjoy anything yeah yeah what i'm hearing about these ssri's is like um like genitalia like paralyzed i saw that yeah i saw that on twitter some lady was talking about her she got off of it and her clitoris is numb she can't have orgasms anymore that's fucked up yeah if that ever happens like you know well the problem is i don't know if it comes back yeah so you can't wait for it to happen and like which medications cause it to happen yeah um if you do get off of it have you talked to your doctor like what is the protocol um well waning off of it yeah my doctor always just says like i don't know he just every time i talk to my doctor it's like every few months we check in and he's like well how you feeling you know how you doing uh i'm like well i'm okay you know just kind of feels like the same um kind of want to get off of him and he's like well you know if you want to do that like you're gonna have to go slowly over time but uh you know are things good and i'm like yeah things are fine he's like well you don't really want to change things if they're good right you know that kind of thing and you worry what yeah i worry about what's gonna happen if i you know what's that gonna be like getting off of them because the thing about it is like i was talking about this guy that was on him for 10 years like that year and a half was fucking rough where he was experiencing all sorts of problems because his body was just kind of in shock that it'd be on he'd been on ssris for a decade and then all of a sudden he's off of him there's like like the way theo described it is like the floor was missing like the floor fell out from under him getting off him he got off him for a while and then got back on him he got off him about a year ago for a little while and then got back on him but he wants to get off him he just doesn't know what to do and i mean hell it's like it's it's like a it's literally a plot device you know like the show the ozarks you know like the crazy brother like he's pouring his medication down the drain yeah and he goes fucking nuts you know it's like somebody being off their medication is kind of a pejorative term right yeah but i'm like yeah i kind of want to get off mine well it depends on what medication right some people are schizophrenic yeah if it's anti-psychosis i guess if you've got psychosis have do you exercise yeah what do you do i usually do 20 minutes on the peloton and then a different muscle group every day oh that's good that anything cardio wise is great for depression supposedly and even weights weights are supposedly really good for anxiety for some reason i've noticed yeah there's a there's a real definitive difference when i'm working out versus when i'm when i'm not yeah man so like do you have a strategy for when you're thinking about doing this or how you're going to try to do this well i was thinking i'd probably do it when i had some time off but i'm working the rest of the year but honestly man being on the road is kind of my my constant so i'm working the rest of the year but i'm working the rest of the year so i think it's something that i could probably accomplish while i'm on the road but i'd hate to have like a breakdown yeah fuck that you're in nashville about to do a show you're like i gotta cancel the show right yeah so it's it's hard to determine you know it scares me man because and again it scares me because doctors incentivize to keep you on them and promote them and get you to do them also and they've been prescribing them for people they don't want to ever think that they're doing something bad there's a justification process in there somewhere a hundred percent justification process financial incentives there's there's a lot going on there and then there's also this this position that they're in of expertise where they're explaining to you what you should and shouldn't do and how it works and and when you're like this is fucking up my whole life and i can't get off i'm like oh it's just why why slow down like isn't everything doing well just keep keep on the same path marcus everything's fine marcus bye click got a new patient calling oh hi jenner do you yeah it's it's very weird man it's very weird that our society is so hypermedicated yeah yeah and injectables are the the wave of the future like even like um like uh my boy chevy that works for me he's um he used to work in pharmaceutical sales and he's like everything is injectables now because that's what's hot because they're like they're not injectables they're not injectables they're not injectables so like every medication is like peddling injectables because like the the wave of like peptides and ozempic and all that kind of stuff now it's like it's trendy which is really interesting to me that is weird because i grew up with my dad having type 2 diabetes and and my grandfather too and uh you know just seeing them inject like insulin and stuff i was like yuck well type 2 the thing about that one is you can cure that yep you just gotta stop eating like a pig which is crazy i know a bunch of people that have stopped themselves from having type 2 diabetes yeah and that and that's that's a goal that i'm on is preventing myself from ever dealing with that yeah i don't i don't eat sugar or anything oh that's awesome yeah i gave up sugar well again the ketogenic diet is supposed to be good for depression too do you take supplements are you taking magnesium and multivitamins and all that stuff yeah i don't eat anything i don't eat anything all that jazz oh yeah that's good that seems like you're doing a lot of the right things man yeah man i'm you know i just i don't want to be a prisoner to pills yeah and i love my wife and i'm just excited to have some babies and just i want to get myself like her career is taking off and my career is going really well and like does she take ssris no that's good she's very anti like any pharmaceuticals which i really admire about her i was just reading something about ssris and the development of children children's brains when women are pregnant and they're on ssris and apparently there's a bunch of issues yeah i can see that i mean look man there's millions of people on those things there's a giant business and they want to hide all the side effects and hide all the negative aspects of it and hide the impact that it does just to the overall psyche of the nation when you've got okay let's just take a guess how many people do you think in this country are on ssris with liberal women it's like 80 percent Yeah. And the other 20% need them. What's the percentage of people on SSRIs in America? Let's guess. Man, I'd probably say like, I would go even higher. I'd say like 60 to 75. Really? Yeah. 60 to 75% of the country? Yeah. Wow. I don't think it's that. I think it's under 30. It's too many. It's too many. It's definitely too many. But there's also a bunch of people that are looking for a quick fix when there's a bunch of factors to why you don't feel happy. Like we were talking about before, there's lifestyle, life choices, situation that is beyond your control, like where you're born, where you live, the job that you have, where you, you know, if you're in a place of limited opportunity and you got a bunch of shitty people around you and life sucks every day, it's hard to be happy. It's hard to not feel depressed. So then there's the question of like, how does one develop the tools to get out of that situation and get somewhere else? And for a lot of people, it's something that helps them break out, whether it's starting a business or being a musician or an artist or something that gets you out of there. And then you start getting around more positive people and then you make more positive lifestyle choices, but you just can't expect to be happy if your life is shit. Right. 13%. Okay. I was way off. American SSRI prescribing, but I bet in your business, that's why you think of it because with artists, I bet it's a lot higher. 13% of US adults report taking an antidepressant in any given 30 day period. SSRI is the most frequently used class within that group. Yeah. Okay. So 13%. So that's 2015 to 2018. I asked for an update for 2020. It said it's about the same. For 2026? I mean, yeah. I asked, is there any updates in 2020? And it basically said the same information. So about 13%. Still a lot. One out of 10 people on crazy pills is a lot. Yeah. In the arts community though. Yeah. Much more. Within the artist community, the last data that I remember reading was like 70% of artists struggle with some faction of mental health. That makes sense. Yeah. And then there's also the newest element that targets your mental health and goes after it, which is social media. Yeah. That's a rough one, boy. That's a rough one. And so many people treat that as if it's no big deal. Like you're just shooting heroin into your eyeballs every day with that stuff. Yeah, man. Not good. So many people are in there all day, every day, and then reading a bunch of negative shit about them and getting angry and upset. And then carrying that weight around with them all day. It's easy to say, like, don't read comments, but it's easier said than done. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you have it on your phone. That's the thing. Like you got to not have it on your phone. If you have it on your phone, you're going to go to it. But then the problem is if you use it for touring and for posting information, keeping your fans engaged. Yeah. Well, the algorithm also serves you like you got to engage that. Like anytime you talk to a social media group, they're like, what are your engagement levels like? Like, so they want you on the app using it, commenting, responding to people. Because if you don't and you choose not to do that, then they're like, well, can we go on there for you and like respond to comments or whatever? And I'm like, no, I don't want you punching in any bullshit. So I'm like, I want to be on there and be myself. And like, if this is a tool that I have to have, I want it to be me, like authentically. But, you know, it's a necessary evil. Yeah, but it ruins so many people's brains. It rots you. Yeah, it really does. And it's also you're absorbing so much negativity just from what's going on in the world. Like on any given day, if I open up Twitter and I just start reading what people are upset about, it's just like, oh, my God, the whole world is falling apart. Everyone's mad at everything and everyone and every little whatever fucking social issue, political issue, world issue, economic issue. Everyone's blaming everyone and everyone's pissed. And there's so many grifters and psychopaths that are just on there all day using it, stirring up bullshit. Fuck, man. I know. It's. Yeah. You think I could use a bathroom? Fuck yeah, we can use a bathroom. We'll get into this. We're going to pee, folks. We'll be right back. And we're back, ladies and gentlemen. Where were we? Depression. Everything sucks. Stay off social media. Yeah. Let's talk about music. Let's talk about some music. Damn. That's how how does it take so long to talk about this? You seen that James Brown interview from the 80s? Which one? When he's got those big glasses on. Oh, yeah. I want to talk about some music. That fucking interview is amazing. It's the best. When he had just got arrested. I'm out on love. Yeah. Aren't you out on bail? I'm out on love. Yeah. And he starts talking to the women in the thing. He's like, why is that, ladies? Yeah. No, it's hilarious. It's the best. He's clearly high as fuck. Yeah. Something going on there. James Brown was an original. When you first started doing music, how old were you? Man, I was probably like two or three years old when I started feeling with it. Really? Yeah. That's crazy. My grandfather played. My uncles. My dad still plays, you know. Wow. So were they professional or they just did it for fun? My grandfather. So he was a career serviceman. He was in the Air Force and he was a staff master sergeant and he played hockey talks on the weekend. He was in charge of booking all the NCO clubs on the base. So he would book like Charlie Pride or Johnny Cash, Barbara Mandrell, and his band would open up and then back them up. Oh, wow. So he was a country and western purist. Did you get a go to any of those shows when you were young? No. So this was back in the 60s. My dad's 73, I think now. He was born in 53. And I was born when my dad was like 43. Oh, wow. So by the time I came along, everybody was, you know, a lot of my family traded in like, I think they associated music with a lot of the secular lifestyle. So they kind of, you know, got born again and into the church. That's around the time I came around, you know. So the music was really associated with church. But I was really interested in that other stuff. Isn't that interesting? I wonder why there's a division. You know, I think about it a lot. I think that's the closest you can get to divinity, you know, is music really allowing yourself to get that close to something. And the conviction that you feel in a church, you know, that's a good common thing for everybody to get on the same level. Yeah, that's part of the church experience that everybody having it together, experiencing it together as a group. Being together live in a room with a great musician on stage when everyone's enjoying it together is very much a transcendent experience. It really is. It's like drinking the Kool-Aid, man. It's like there's a beautiful moment where you're all experiencing it together and you're all clapping and cheering or you're all dancing and singing along. It's a beautiful moment. It really is. Music is like a drug, man. It really is. It's like a beautiful drug. Like the right song when you're on the treadmill, you're like, fuck, yeah. You can just keep going, you know. Tear a door off the hinges. Yeah. If I hear like Little Feet, skin it back. Yeah. Yeah. There's certain songs that just. They just give you fucking energy, man. Like Bitch by the Rolling Stones. Oh, yeah. That song, if I need a pick-me-up in the morning, that song comes on. A great weightlifting one is Prison Sex by Tool. Oh, yeah? Oh, you know that song? Tool's a band that I never really delved into, but I know Danny Carey and I know them because of my buddy Brent Hines. Did you ever listen to Mastodon? No. Man, I got to send you some choice cuts, but. Okay. Brent was, he was the fucking man. He just died back in September. Oh. I took him on the road right before that, which was. Oh, really? Which was messy. Oh, really? Brent, he and Mastodon kind of had a mutual agreement that he would leave the band. So he was doing his solo thing, and he's one of my heroes, you know? And I was like, I'll take you out, sure. And he just threw it together somehow. And then I ended up having to kick him off the tour, which broke my heart, but he kind of forced my hand. The night in question, I walked outside, and he had this little tour manager named Angela, and she was crying. And my tour manager was holding her, and she was crying. I was like, fucking A. What happened now? She said, I walk into the dressing room and Brent pee on the floor. And I said, no, no, you have to stop. So then he pee in his mouth. Oh, Jesus. jesus christ and like i know so you just have to picture my boy just like pissing and she's like you have to stop and then he's like oh and like at his funeral i told i told uh matt pike from the sleep i told him that story he was like yeah like and normal he's like it's a party trick that's a wednesday move and i was like yeah no it's hilarious but it really offended her and she got very upset and um the whole thing just fell apart and you know that that was the last straw that was this and in his own mouth that was what did it really but you know um get him some paper towels and let's fix this i was ready to fix it but like his whole band and crew they were like it's not working so what was he doing he was just just partying a little too much you know and i mean you i really i love that dude like a brother you know i miss him miss him a lot sometimes it takes a really wild crazy off the rails person to make music or make any kind of art that just moves you drives you crazy yeah i mean he was a true artist you know like he he was insane yeah like you gotta have friends that your wife doesn't particularly love you hanging out with right you know there's something about that friend yeah that's a lot of my friends yeah yeah yeah though but those are the ones that make the magic yeah there's something to it and again that it is a magic thing that the the you know and this is coming from someone with no music i have no talent and so for me like watching it and experiencing it is a pure experience because i'm not like oh i don't like how he played that chord i don't like how i don't know anything about music i just know i love it i mean rick rubin you know he's held on to that he he wants to be you know and i think he has been like the uh you know the voice of like the consumer he he hears what the consumer wants to hear and well he knows what he likes yeah and he's got a very interesting mind you know he's a very interesting person to talk to his perspective on things is very unique i like him a lot yeah really like him a lot i like talking to him a lot and just he sends you the wildest text messages he didn't text me oh yeah he sent me some fucking conspiracies that are often sometimes i have to say hey that's not real but every now and then he'll send you some some ones that make you question reality i like the thought of you talking rick off of a ledge not necessarily talking off a ledge just letting him know that some of the you know it's hard to know what's real and what's not real out there in the world if you're not like deep into the bowels of conspiracy theory movement yeah you know right but again a guy like rick like his sensibility like he he has a it's like a very valuable position a person just with a unique mind that is just helping shape how music gets produced and created because like whatever whatever it takes whatever it i mean it's not a science like a math thing or a it's not carpentry like you have to level this and square that like no man there's like a some weirdness and there's love in there and hate in there and there's there's there's a lot of stuff that it's intangible it's hard to describe like why this is better and why this is good but when you hear it you know when you know you know sudden riffs you know there's some riffs that just like oh my god like the beginning of voodoo child slight return come on yeah come on yeah just the beginning you hear you go oh yeah yeah dude yeah i mean dan hourback's another one who's just oh yeah i love those guys perfected the riff yeah josh homie yeah stone age oh yeah um this episode is sponsored by better help if you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner better help insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just 23 per session and with world mental health day on the 10th now's the perfect time to give it a try in fact don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel it's not waiting around so instead of letting it build up sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time not just on world mental health day if you've been waiting to start therapy better help works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just 23 per session with insurance don't have insurance or live outside of the united states you can still get 10 off your first month visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options that's better help.com this episode is sponsored by better help if you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner better help insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just 23 per session and with world mental health day on the 10th now's the perfect time to give it a try in fact don't even wait until the 10th because all that stress you feel it's not waiting around so instead of letting it build up sign up for a therapy session and unload at any time not just on world mental health day if you've been waiting to start therapy better help works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just 23 per session with insurance don't have insurance or live outside the united states you can still get 10 off your first month visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options that's better help.com you know rick's a funny one man i love his philosophy on music too he just he looks at it the same way that colonel bruce hampton looked at it colonel bruce hampton and rick both believed that music is like pro wrestling you know is colonel bruce hampton the colonel from elvis that's not different different colonel who's colonel bruce hampton colonel bruce hampton he was kind of like um so billy bob thornton put him in a movie in sling blade um he was i can't remember his name in the film but yeah colonel bruce hampton there he is he died on stage at the fox theater wow in detroit no in atlanta oh okay his story is he was born with two birth certificates he was just a wild man he was just he was all about like instead of instruction he called it outstruction and like billy bob worked on a documentary about him in like 2003 and he was just like his whole philosophy on music and just like why we do it and just pointing out the hilarity of like the business and like the coffee getters as he referred to them you know we have a whole industry built around coffee getters now you know all the people that got the suits their lattes and stuff in the morning now they're calling the shots and that's a that's a weird place to be but the colonel bruce hampton i you know i just what i do now is i just buy copies of uh his uh documentary basically frightened and i just give it to people who aren't hip to the knowledge so i'll send a copy down here yeah it's called frightened it's called basically frightened basically frightened colonel bruce hampton story yeah is it available anywhere like is it on apple or amazon or it's not streaming anywhere no so i just i just collect the dvds when i can find them oh wow is it can you buy a dvd anywhere like if people are listening to this and they want to get a hold of it yeah like ebay that's the only way that's that's the only place i've found them really yeah and you'll be bidding against me i just keep buying copies of it i yeah every time i give one away i buy another copy wow yep here's a final thread on reddit people looking for it and someone's like just mail me the dvd and i'll copy it for you like you can't find it anywhere yeah wow it would be cool if it were to be streamed somewhere it's a fascinating story $219 on amazon but i don't know that it's gonna be even real right they might just send you a fucking brick but he he was somebody like you know widespread panic that was like their guru you know really colonel bruce hampton jimmy herring you know um otil burbridge who i'm in a band with now um you know he started with bruce really i've never heard of him before you know it's just he's one of those guys that you know he was like to the southeast he was like our frank zappa you know like our son raw oh wow he was just all about just the outrageousness and you know i have a lot of friends who spent a lot more time with him than i did but like he was one of the first people that took notice to what i was doing when i was like 15 you know and then i remember like being in germany and finding out that he passed away on stage which he predicted he did really yeah he said that's how he was gonna go well if you keep performing long enough well carlin died in a hotel room on the road really yeah i'm gonna have to download this for you real quick oh there you go It's unlisted on YouTube. Oh, perfect. It won't be there tomorrow, though. After this episode gets released? Yeah. Yeah, can you download it? I can try it, yeah. Yeah. I'll just download it to you. I'll figure it out, though. Okay. Jam me to the rescue. Sorry, folks, if you're getting this. You might be able to find it still. I found it, but good luck. Yeah, maybe somebody can upload it on one of them other social media platforms. That's cool. I'm interested in checking it out. I love music for inspiration, you know? It's one of the unique art forms that inspires you to create, inspires you to go do things. You know, whenever I see a live band or a live performer, I can't wait to go do something. I want to go write. I want to go perform. I want to—Paul Mooney, who's a great comedian. Do you know who Paul Mooney is? Yeah. He used to write for Richard Pryor. He was one of the real OGs back in the early days when I came to the comedy store. I was kind of blown off. He was one of the guys I was always nervous around being around until he liked me. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, Paul Mooney hates you. You're fucked. But he gave me that advice once early on. He said, if you want to entertain people, he said, go be entertained. He goes, you want to entertain, honey? Go be entertained, homie. Go see some other shit. He goes, go see something that gets you—go see a great movie. Yeah. Go see a band. Go see something. Be entertained. That's what my process is like in the studio, man. Like, this last record we did, like, we had a projector, and we'd play, like, you know, Giant with James Dean, or we'd play, like, Easy Rider or Big Lebowski, or, like, films that, like, inspired us, films that we, like, really gravitated towards. And all the while, you know, waking up in the morning and reading East of Eden and just, like, some of these great architects of Americana and just, like, being inspired on every turn, watching live concert footage of bands that we love, Marshall Tucker Band, Skinner, whatever the case, just inundating yourself with inspiring stuff, you know? Just something to get the juices flowing. Just summon the muse. Mm-hmm. Something to— Sometimes we would play just the footage of, like, a Midnight Cowboy or something. Ah. And we would record. You know, in the mindset, like, we were trying to score this film, you know? Oh, wow. Just to kind of get a different approach. I forgot about Midnight Cowboy. What a wild movie. It's a good one. Yeah, that was back when Times Square was dirty. Yeah. Now Times Square is one big Applebee's. That's when people would go and watch pornography together in a theater. Yeah, in a theater. Yeah. Not only that, but it was a thing in the early days of pornography where couples, couples would go out and, like, Johnny Carson went to see Deep Throat. Yeah. There's, like, famous people went to see the film Deep Throat in the theater. Yep. Well, it was adult entertainment. But how weird is that? That pornography, like, there was always stag films, right? Mm-hmm. Like, that was the thing that they used to make, like, in the early days of movies. They would film people having sex, and you could watch it, like, at a stag party, which was, like, a bachelor party. Right. But then people tried to make films, like, artistic films that had people having sex in them, which is really interesting that we find that abhorrent. Like, people don't like that in today's society. We don't mind, like, this show From that I was telling you about. Bro, the violence is horrific. The gore and the violence is crazy. That's okay. Mm-hmm. Just don't suck someone's dick. Don't make them cum. That's terrible. That's terrible. Like, do you remember the movie Bad Bunny? No, not Bad Bunny. Was that Brown Bunny? Brown Bunny. Do you remember the movie Brown Bunny? Mm-hmm. Brown Bunny was a Vincent Gallo movie that he made, and there was a real sex scene in there, where, like, how do you say that lady's name? Chloe? I don't know. I don't know how you say her name. She's a really good actress, and she blows him, like, for real, in the movie. Like, it's a real scene. and the movie's a real movie but then when it came to the sex part they actually did it and people were horrified I mean it's so weird like if it was violence like if it was a scene where she beat him to death with a baseball bat people would be like wow what a crazy movie but if it was a scene where she blows him people are like this is outrageous and I think that movie ruined Vincent Gallo's career yeah because Vincent Gallo had been in a bunch of movies he's a really weird guy like a very interesting guy and after that he kind of dipped away from Hollywood like he kind of vanished in a lot of ways and that was the big thing I remember reading these articles on how outraged people were that they had actually seen real sex in a movie like it's so strange that we don't mind violence like once upon a time in Hollywood Brad Pitt takes a lady's head and bashes it into a mantelpiece and fucking brains her fine no outrage everyone okay? but if he fucked her like actually pulled her pants down you see Brad Pitt's penis in her vagina you're like this is crazy something that we all do but the simulation of it is fine too right simulation of it is fine like it was a sex scene and you just see his hips and her face and they're kissing fine fine you just don't see actual sex even if it was like him and his wife like if he made a movie with him and his wife and they decided to have actual sex in the movie people would be like this is disgusting get this fucking smut off the screen but if they had a movie with him and his wife and she shoots him you're like okay that's fine didn't really happen weird right? it is weird I mean hell I did a commercial for like I did a shoot for this car and like they couldn't have me in the car while it was moving for insurance purposes so they had to like make it seem like I was in the car while it was moving insurance purposes that's crazy but that's more of a financial thing but the weirdness about sex the point is see if you can find that footage of all the people that were in line there's like an old there's a YouTube video of an old news report of people in line to see Deep Throat right and again Johnny Carson was one of them I think they even interviewed him after the film like they went and watched people fuck and like it was a movie like you know you're watching the Joker or something right very odd it is odd and they got that name Deep Throat from the Watergate did they? yeah I thought Deep Throat was afterwards I thought I thought the Watergate thing was after I don't know I could be wrong chicken or the egg okay so Watergate was what 70 74 was it? the movie came out in 72 oh yeah so the movie came out first okay and so that was after those so that's interesting too when you think about like 72 was not that long ago and people's ideas of pornography were very different back then a lot of my favorite venues in the country were porno theaters first comedy mothership bro alright yeah was a porno theater at one point in time and like people cared about like the quality of like the audio production in those films and like you know and these rooms sound really good Variety Playhouse in Atlanta it's one of the best scenes in American Werewolf in London okay do you remember that movie? American Werewolf in London? um it's a great fucking movie one of the best scenes they're in the middle of London and they're in an adult movie theater and these people are watching pornography they're watching a smut film and while these people are fucking he turns into a werewolf and kills everybody I gotta check that out oh it's great one of the greatest movies of all time that wolf that we have in the lobby that's a recreation oh really of American Werewolf okay that's what that is the thing with Johnny Carson and Deep Throat I think is like a conglomeration memory yeah is it? there's a weird there is a photo of people waiting in line to see the movie mhm but it's like this is it on the screen mhm but there was a video of Johnny Carson talking about it after the fact during his monologue that he went to see it oh so there wasn't a photo or a video of him at the movie theater? I don't think so man I'm looking for it cause I sort of remember what you're talking about I think remember we might have read an article that listed all of this stuff together what was that play where they had like everybody was like naked and it was like really a big deal um was it like Hairspray or something like that? I don't know in the late 70s my dad told me him and his friends went to go see this like Broadway production or off-Broadway production um where like everybody was like nude and it was like this really you know it was like this really racy thing yeah and uh there was a preacher up front just like really just giving them hell man and then he got up closer and he realized it was His uncle, my great uncle, was up there just motherfucking him. That's hilarious. Widely cited overview. Many works are quoted. Note that several mainstream celebrities appear to have seen Deep Throat, including Martin Scorsese, Brian De Palma, Truman Capote, Jack Nicholson, Johnny Carson, Spiro Agnew, Frank Sinatra, and others. Barbara Walters later mentioned seeing it in her memoir. These references are usually brief, but they're pulled into many articles about the film's cultural impact. That's what's so interesting. It's like that is not normal in today's society to even think that a bunch of people would say they went to go see a porn film. I think this is also Midnight Cowboy, which is where you guys started this, 1969, which is before this, and won Best Picture as the only X-rated or NC-17 movie. So there started a little bit of a trend then. Interesting. And this is only three years later. Why was Midnight Cowboy X-rated? The reason? Yeah. What was so explicit that they had to make it an X? I would say a little bit has to do with marketing. But I don't know if there's a reason. I'll see if there's a reason. Marketing. Yeah, it would make people want to go see it. Right, I guess. Oh, this is crazy. This movie's crazy. It's not standing out here. Right here. After consulting with a psychologist, they were told to give it an X. Homosexual frame reference and its possible influence on youngsters. Wow. That's crazy. Today that would be celebrated. Oh, there's a rape scene? I haven't seen this movie. I saw it in like the 80s. I haven't seen it in forever. Yeah, but even, I mean, like in that film, it's like a distant thought that Jon Voight's character keeps going back to, like the rape scene. What was the last time you saw it? A couple months ago, probably. Oh, really? But like, fucking, the deliverance plays on AMC on TV. Right, right, which is another rape scene. Nothing's edited out. Sweet like a pig. That one fucked me up when I was a kid, I'm not gonna lie. Oh, yeah, very much so. Not to mention it supposedly took place in the Appalachian backdrop, which is where I grew up. I was like, that's fucking happening here? Yeah, it is, yeah. Because of then-shocking sexual content, even more importantly, it's frank portrayal of homosexuality and hustling, hustling meaning having gay sex for money, which the studio and censors saw as potentially corrupting to young viewers. The film includes scenes and references to male prostitution, homosexual encounters, and brief but explicit situations, including implied oral sex and nudity, which went far beyond what Hollywood had shown in a mainstream drama up to that point. Maybe now it would get just an R, but also that would be with this never existing. Now it'd be celebrated. It's a film celebrating sex workers. It's weird. It's weird what was, but it's also weird that there was a movie that was an actual porn movie that a bunch of people just went to see and talked about. Like today, people want to pretend they don't even watch porn. Meanwhile, I think last check we did, oh, no, we've done this before, Jamie. Like what percentage of the internet is pornography, internet traffic? Take a guess at that. I bet it's way more than SSRIs. Right? Don't you think? Yeah, I haven't guessed right so far, so let's see. 50%. Oh, I don't think it's that high. I would say 30. Okay. I'd say 30% of the internet, but I could be wrong. I don't remember. 30% of the internet traffic is pornography. Pornography. Let's say that. Maybe it's 40. I was just saying that's a myth. It's a myth? I don't, I mean, I haven't read through this yet. That's a bunch of people lying about jerking off. The 30 to 40% thing is a myth, apparently. Okay. Porn makes up a small share of sites. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but traffic. Yeah, it says it. 30, 40%. Wiley stated, but what is the, what about traffic? The amount of internet? Searches. Yeah, but no, but I mean, traffic, like the amount of bandwidth. All right, then it's getting lost in this word because I used traffic. No, I used traffic. Yeah, you did. Why do we see higher numbers? See 37% of the internet is porn. BBC reported tracing one of these popular figures back to single content filter company press release, not an independent audited measurement. Some advocacy. I bet now today because of YouTube and the amount of streaming that goes on with like Instagram and TikTok, I bet it probably, isn't as high as it used to be the percentage wise because there's so much more content that's being streamed now than ever before. Porn related searches are 13% on the web and 20% on mobile devices. That's funny. It's more on mobile devices. People can hide in the toilet. The content filter company. Okay, I claim comes from this. Yeah, we read that. We already read that. I just said so it could be just made up to begin with. Yeah, it could be, but there's got to be like a number. I don't know. Like the internet traffic. I don't know how you'd get that number. So some advocacy or internet safety groups cite very high traffic shares and storage figures. Example, nearly a third of all internet traffic, but these are rough, sometimes opaque estimates rather than peer reviewed measurements. Okay, so it's at least 4%. So it says roughly websites, four to 12%. That's a lot. Just four to 12% of the whole internet. It's jerk off websites. That's crazy. But the volume in terms of the amount of bandwidth used. Right. But. I bet if you went and watched Deep Throat today, it'd probably be pretty pedestrian. It'd be tamed. Yeah. It probably would seem just like soft core almost. Right. Yeah, like one of them Showtime late night movies. Yeah. I mean, it is something that I, you know, I like to save all that, you know. When I get home off the road, I see my wife. Yeah. You know, there's something to it. Is that the tagline that it had originally? The woman had an unusual birth defect that came from a doctor who has an unorthodox solution to make the best of her situation. That it? Is that the Deep Throat? Yes, yes. Or that she could just take it. Some birth defect? Balls deep downward, their chin. That guy, Harry Reams, he was like one of the first, famous male porn stars. I think he went on to be a real estate salesman or something. Like, if you're one of those people that gets famous fucking, that has got to be a very, yeah. Is that where the porn mustache comes from? Oh, yeah. Got it. That thing's huge. Oh, yeah, he had a crazy stache. 1947, wow. What's he up to these days? He passed away. Did he? Yeah. When did he pass away? 2013. Wow. Didn't live that long. All that fucking. Wasted all his jizz. I bet he shaved off his mustache, and he was just anonymous. He was just drifting in and out of traffic. Nobody even noticed him, you know? Right. Weird life, having sex with people on camera. Should we add that to the wall? Oh, look at that. No one's gonna know what that is. When would he get arrested to? If we add it to the wall, probably for indecent something. Yeah, we should add that to the wall. Memphis. You gotta be up to some no good to get arrested in Memphis, I feel like. What did he get arrested for? I'll see if it says something. Too much dick. It says his appearance in Deep Throat led to his arrest by FBI agents in Memphis. Wow. And charges of conspiracy to distribute obscenity across state lines. Whoa. Whoa. He called it forum shopping, but I don't. What does that mean? Forum shopping? A real term for the practice of litigants taking actions to have their legal case heard in the court they believe is most, oh, to give them a good judgment. They're trying to get him convicted, I guess. Trying to make an example of him. So they found a court that would take the case. Like for obscenity? Yeah, and then they overturned him to pre-court. How interesting. Miller versus California. Reamson's granted a new trial. Charges were dropped in August. Wow. So they just- The defense argues the first act to ever be prosecuted by the federal government for appearing in a film. It's like the Lenny Bruce of slinging dick. And then all these people got behind him. Very. Shirley MacLaine, Warren Beatty, Richard Dreyfuss, they all got behind him. Jack Nicholson, Ben Gazzara. Gazzara, wow. Dick Cavett. No, he was in Grease as the coach. Wow. He was in the movie Grease, the musical? What? In 1978? Out of fear his notoriety would jeopardize the film's block, he was replaced. Oh, he was cast and he was replaced by Sid Caesar. That's hilarious. Wow. After an eight year, in 1982, after an eight year hiatus from porn, Reams returned to the industry and performed in the film, Society Affairs, and reportedly received a six figure salary. How weird. That's funny back then. Weird. It is. The whole pornography thing is very strange, 'cause like people want to watch other people have sex because people like having sex. But it's like. But you can't talk about it. Well, you know, if you say you like it, people are like, fuck is wrong with you. And then they watch it. But if we could destigmatize it and like, not give people unrealistic ideas of what happens in the bedroom and note it as something that is entertainment. I think the fear is that the women that are in it, for the rest of their life, they're always going to be thought of a certain way. And the men skate. They don't really have a. They're thought as seedy, but they're not thought as girls that got used. Well, I think what's going to get weird is AI porn because then you can watch porn and there's no victims. There's no person you feel bad for. Like, oh, that poor girl, everyone's going to know that she sucked dick on camera. She took it in the ass on camera. It's not a real person. So then maybe you can watch that and. Remove any kind of victim. I don't know. People are fucking weird. People are weird. I'll tell you one thing I've never tried and I'm not going to. I don't want it. Nope. Not going to do it. Is VR porn. Because Duncan told me, dude, have you ever seen VR porn? It's fucking amazing. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to sit there with fucking goggles on and jack it off. Joe hasn't left his house in about six months. I mean, you imagine you're watching porn and the people are fucking 20 feet high in front of you and they're banging. And if you could move around in it, like you can move around in other VR, you can get really close to watch the dick go in there. That's one thing I haven't tried either. So VR porn, good for you. Stay away. VR in general is weird. You know what's really great though is VR games. Have you ever done any VR games? You know what Sandbox is? You ever heard of Sandbox? Sandbox, they have one in Austin. They had one in Woodland Hills right down the street from our old studio in LA. And it is a place where you go. It's like a big ass warehouse. And you go to these rooms in the warehouse and they have fans set up and it's all like these, these walls, like it's all boundaries. They put a haptic feedback vest on you and goggles and they give you rifles and the plastic rifles and then you get dropped into this virtual reality world where you fight zombies. Oh shit. It's fucking dope. Dude, it's nuts. When the zombies attack you, they run at you, they claw you, you see blood splatter in front of your eyes and you gun them down. It's fucking crazy. There's one called Deadwood Mansion. That's my favorite. And the Deadwood Mansion. There's a couple different Deadwood games. I think there's two or three now. I think there's three. There's three zombie games that you can play. Three different ones. No, it's here. Here. They have one in Austin. Yeah, it's out at the Domain. It's fucking so fun. My family hates it because they get like sick and that's all I ever want to do. So on Father's Day, I make everybody shoot zombies with me. Like, it's Father's Day. What do you want to do? Shoot zombies. Like, no. I'm like, come on. We have to do it. Yeah. Once you do it, it's fun. Father's Day is coming up. Tournament, Joe. Tournament? Okay. At one point in time, I had the number three score in the country at killing zombies. Yeah, I went ham one day. One day, I was just locked the fuck in. And the key is, I'm going to give you guys a pro tip. If you're doing Deadwood Mansion, get the shotgun. The shotgun is overpowered. The shotgun kills more things than anything else. It's way better at it. But the game is nuts, man. I mean, there's zombie rats that come running at you. There's fucking people that are attached to the walls and they shoot down their tongue and wrap it around your neck and they're pulling on you. Show them a clip of it. It's crazy. It is a fucking. It's really fun, dude. You'll love it. I'm going to tell you the band to do that. Yeah, that's what you could do. You could do it, like, six people. We're always looking for, like, band activities. It's a good one. I bet they have multiple. I only know of these two, of Austin and L.A. The one I pulled up is in Atlanta. Oh, there's one in Atlanta? Mm-hmm. Yeah, they have to have them all over the place. I don't know. I have no idea why it's not everywhere because it's so fun. It's one of the most fun things you could do with your friends. We've done it. My wife and I have done it on double dates. Like, you go do that and then you go have dinner. It's great. It's great, man. It's great. It's really fun. They got a ton of locations now. Oh, shit. They're all over the place now. Yeah, that's great. See if you can find a video of Deadwood Mansion. Oh, Deadwood Phobia. Oh, that's the newest one. That's the third one. Oh, there's a Squid Games one. We've done that one, too. The Stranger Things one. They have so many different. Deadwood Valley, that's another one that's really good. The Deadwood Valley one, do they have a. Yeah, there we go. So, check this out. So, this is what happens. You get dropped off into this city and the zombies are there. And so, this is. This is you. It's like it's cut between you with the guns and then, like, this is what you see. This is what it looks like. So, but this is more like a video like showing you what it looks like on the outside. But when you're in it, I wish they would show you what it looks like. That's what it looks like when you're in it. Oh, wow. And these dudes are like, these dudes are chasing after you and you're gunning them down. It's really fun. But again, there's a bunch of games that you can do that. Survive the horrors. You got to save the heroes. There's people in there that you have to save and there's other people that you have to kill. It's dope. It's really fun. It's badass. So, that's a good use of VR. Don't be looking at 10-foot vaginas. Go kill fake zombies. You get stuck on a train and as the train's running down the tracks, they're jumping onto the train and trying to get you. You have to gun them down. It's really fun. That seems like something I could get into. I never played any video games growing up. Really? Yeah, no. That's crazy. How old are you? 30. How's that possible? I mean, I just, I never had much interest in them. Like when I was young, I don't know. Do your friends play video games? Uh, like the rest of the band, they all play, you know. And you just say, nope, not interested. I was just never really into it, man. Well, this is different than a regular video game. Like, this is very physical. Like, you're running around. You're in a room that's bigger than this room and you have your haptic feedback. You also have fans that blow air at you. You know, like, so you like, it's also to cool you off too because it gets hot as fuck and you're running around and you got this vest on and when you get grabbed, the vest vibrates. Oh, I feel it. Like, oh. That's sick. Oh, yeah. It's really fun. But it's probably good that you never got into video games because they're so time intensive. They rob you of your life. You think golf robs you of your life? You don't have to leave the house to play video games. Like, look at Jamie over there. How often do you play video games, Jamie? No, not that often. No? No. I thought you were a junkie. I actually haven't played in weeks. Ooh. Maybe. But you were hooked for a while, right? It's a fun, as I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, I grew up playing video games but I also wish I was fucking sick at guitar. So, there's a fucking, there's a fucking trade-off there. And most people I know who are sick at guitar aren't good at video games or play them, so. That's a very good point. I did make, I made an effort like a year or two ago. I got a PS5 and I got Red Dead Redemption. I was like, I'm gonna fucking do it. I'm gonna play this game. And I just got, I was like, I feel like I'm just doing chores. And I asked my drummer, he was like, yeah, that's pretty much what it is. Oh, Red Dead Redemption? Yeah. You gotta play something like a first-person shooter. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, play like Quake or something like that. Like, what's the big first-person shooter that the kids played today, Jamie? I made Fortnite, really. Fortnite? Fortnite is, boy, Fortnite's been around forever. When I, my kids were in, like, grade school, Fortnite was big. Yep, and they just made some weird, I don't, I stopped paying attention, but like, Star Wars is now in Fortnite and the games that they made for Star Wars are just like, nope, it's just in this thing now. You can just play it in here. Wow, really? Yeah, and it's like, they downloaded on, Stormtroopers and Lifesavers. Whoa! Yeah, my nephews are always hitting me for, what do they call that, like, Fortnite Bucks or, B-Bucks. B-Bucks, B-Bucks, yeah. They want B-Bucks so they can play more. Yeah, there's Robux. My kids were always into Robux for Roblox so you could buy things in Roblox, but apparently now there's like, pedophiles have been, gotten into Roblox. They try to message people. They ruin everything. They do. They do. Creeps ruin everything. But there's some very fun video games that you shouldn't ever do because it'll fuck with all the other things you do. Like, not getting into golf, not getting into video games. Again, Jamie's dead right. That's probably why you're so sick at guitar. You can make a guitar gently weep. Well, there's other things like, there's certain games where you can play guitar, like Guitar Hero. That's not the fucking same. No, no, no, but haven't people learned how to play guitar, an actual guitar, because of Guitar Hero? There's a game called, there's technically a game, it's like a training game called Rocksmith, which is a way, it's a, you actually have a guitar and it's plugged into it, not on rock. Oh, that's cool. Guitar Hero, you're just hitting five buttons. Oh, I see. You're just matching red to red, blue to blue, and it's a timing thing, but as you, no transfer. It doesn't, oh, but it would, I would imagine that a game that would teach you how to play guitar with an actual guitar would be dope. Like, if you got, like, you know, like these games, like, the sandbox game, Deadwood Mansion, they, you get a gun, and. If you got really good, like Staccato has a VR gun game. Staccato, they make pistols, and there's a VR gun game, and you get a plastic staccato. And when you're playing this game, you're actually pointing the trigger, and when you pull the trigger, there's actually a muzzle jump. So your reticle actually jumps up and down a little. Your red dot jumps up and down a little bit. That would be exactly like it would do if you actually shot a gun. So they have to, like, recenter it. Bang, bang, bang. And so you could run around doing things and shoot stuff and shoot targets. That's here, too? Yeah. But that's a game that you can get for, like, meta VR goggles, like consumer VR goggles. And so you doing that could get better at shooting guns because you're shooting a plastic. It doesn't weigh the same, but it's the same shape, the same form. It's a plastic gun. I mean, what they really should do is make one of those things. With the weight of an actual steel gun so that you're accustomed to the actual feel of the thing. Yeah. And then, God, why can't they do that? They should be able to do that. Maybe we'll talk to them. But if you did that, like, that would be a skill that would actually transfer over. So if they could do that with a guitar, if they could figure out a way to attach, like, computer sensors to an actual real guitar. This is Rocksmith. This is, uh, there's levels of it. You can slow it. You can slow it down. And what are you playing? Real songs. You pick the song. They're all real songs. Right. But what is the interface? A guitar. Oh, an actual guitar? Yeah, it's plugged in with a USB cable to the computer. Oh, it's their virtual guitar? No, no. This is just, I showed you what it looks like on the game, but. Right. What is it? But it looks like an actual guitar. It's a real, whatever guitar you want to play. Oh. It's your guitar. It's not a fake guitar. Guitars are just things that vibrate strings and expel. Oh, dude, that's dope. Expel, like, digital sound thing. That is dope. That's actually pretty sick. But I think after a while, you'd have to abandon that, right? Yeah, he's good at guitar. I mean, he doesn't need to learn this. Did you learn by lessons, or did you just learn by playing? So, initially, I just learned by just sitting around the house, watching cartoons, playing guitar. My grandfather would teach me something. He'd give me, like, a piece of music. It was a project, basically. Or my dad would leave me a record to listen to, and it was just his old record collection. So, a lot of Allman Brothers band, a lot of Skinnerd, Marshall Tucker band, that kind of thing. And then I would just sit at home all day and just go over it. And then later, when I was in high school, I studied jazz theory with Steve Watson. It was like a vocational school for the arts. It was called the Fine Arts Center in Greenville. South Carolina. And I'd go there in the afternoons and study jazz theory, which was really beneficial, because it's good to put a vocabulary to the things that you kind of knew, you know, but you didn't know how to quite name it. Right. Just kind of learning the, you know, the vocabulary, learning, you know, what the things are called, and then expanding upon that, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think theory is a valuable tool. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Does it help you in writing songs? It can. It helps in, like, in Nashville, they use something called the Nashville number system. So, like, you go into a session, and, like, it's all based off of the major scale. So, like, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And then the eight is just the octave of the one, right? So, they'll say, like, we got a one, four, five, you know. And it just represents what the chords are. Yeah. Wow. This is where math and stuff gets really interesting. You go down this rabbit hole forever. Yeah. And this gets, you could bring a Terrence Howard back in here. And then some weird stuff. And honestly, and then you could bring in ancient Egypt, and so this is all vibrations, and you could probably translate hieroglyphs into some of this music theory stuff. It's fucking weird. Terrence Howard trying to find the one. Yeah. Yeah. In a beat. That's hilarious. But the first time I used the number system was with Auerbach. Oh, really? Yeah. Because Dan, like, his house band for a long time was the remaining members of the Memphis Boys, who played on, like, Son of a Preacher Man by Dusty Springfield. Oh, wow. And, like, Suspicious Minds, that kind of thing. Gene Chrisman was 80 years old playing drums. Bobby Wood, keyboard player, Billy Sanford. And his second session in Nashville was pretty wonderful. And he wrote the riff. Oh, wow. So, I walk in. I was early to the session, and they were still, they were finishing up their first session of the day, which was John Prine. Wow. And I walked in. It was just like, whoa. Wow. And Dan was like, don't Marcus get his ass in here and play some slide guitar. So, they threw a chart in front of me. I just had to pretend I knew what was going on, you know. That's where you got to rely on your ear. Hmm. But it's conversational. It's conversational. It's conversational, too. Like, if you don't really know what's going on, like, you don't want to say much. You know? Right. That's fascinating, man. I'm scared of music. Not really, but I'm scared of practicing it. I'm scared of learning it. Because I just feel like it would be very rewarding. It is. And I'd get very obsessed. Yeah. Something to it. Yeah. Well, listen, man, I'm glad there's people out there like you doing it. Man, I'm just thankful. Well, that's the best attitude to have. That's what I think. I think gratitude is the best attitude to have. Yeah. Anyone that's doing what they actually want to do, what's going to propel you forward and keep it going is probably gratitude. Yeah. Just be happy that, like, you're able to do one of the coolest fucking things in the world for a living. Yeah. Kind of amazing. Just, and don't be an asshole. Don't be an asshole. That's it. You'd be surprised how hard it is to follow that one. I know. Right? A lot of people fail. Well, thank you, Marcus. Thanks for being here, brother. It was fun. I enjoyed it. Thank you all for having me. What's that? Oh. 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