The discussion centers on a documentary film that recreates Bob Lazar's alleged experiences at a secret facility using predominantly handmade CGI, with only minimal AI enhancement. Lazar expresses amazement at the film's accuracy, stating it visually extracted details from his memory and even triggered forgotten recollections. The conversation highlights the longevity and consistency of Lazar's story since the late 1980s, noting that recent U.S. military UFO videos appear to show craft maneuvering exactly as he described decades ago. Lazar recounts the severe intimidation he and his associates faced after going public. He also details the frustrating, compartmentalized work environment at the facility, where excessive secrecy between scientific teams—like material scientists and propulsion experts—stifled collaboration and progress, treating the advanced craft with a surprisingly casual, nonchalant attitude over time.
[MUSIC] >> Hey Joe. >> Great to see you again Bob. >> Same here. >> Long time. >> We're reaching Joe. >> You are still to this day the most watched ever podcast we have ever done that's on YouTube. >> That's just done real. >> It's done real. >> It is unreal. >> It shows you how many people are just absolutely fascinated by the story. What you guys have done in this new film is essentially recreate S4 and using AI recreate you as a young man in these experiences that you had. It was really excellent. Luigi, you're the one to put the film together. You figured it all out. First of all, what was the technology that you guys used to recreate everything you did? >> Yeah, I just want to say there's about 10% AI in the film, but there's 90% blender. That's actually handmade CGI. Everything you see is all handmade. Even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob. We went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de-aging him through that, then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages and then placing him in the environment. In some instances at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it with a little touch of AI, but the whole thing is handmade. The craft, the environment, the papu slake, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made. Some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there. One of the guys that is Barry in the film is a guy called Luis Martinez. It's been working with me for the past 10 years and he laughs at it because he's like, "I can't believe I'm Barry." >> Does he look anything like Barry? >> Actually, he does. >> He does. >> That's why we chose him. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Where is the actual Barry now? >> I don't know. I kind of thought at one point after all this happened, we would at least hear from one of those guys. But I never heard from anybody after the initial release of all the information. >> It seems like, well, I don't know. If people are able to keep secrets for this long, it's got to be very difficult to just blurt it out. You're holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years. >> I guess these guys were lifers though. They spent most of their time there. They spent at least two weeks at a time and one week off. So they stayed at the base. These guys were hardcore. I had just come in on the project. I don't know what happened to them. I'd love to know. I suspect the Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died. I've seen people track him down all the way to point to speaking to his family. And they said, yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert or something. They showed me his gravestone and stuff. So at least they were able to track him down. But I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Renee or anybody like that. >> What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film? >> Because essentially it was your direction for lack of a better word, your description of it. You telling them exactly how everything was laid out. And then once they re-created it, what is that feeling like when you watch it? >> Well, the final product is absolutely mind blowing. Because as I've said to Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain. I mean, you can describe something a hundred times and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear. But this took years. I think it was like five and a half years from when I first met Luigi and he said, yeah, I can do this. The quality kept improving to where he started showing me pictures and I went, Jesus, that's really it. It's not really it. It's really it. And I mean, it blew me away. Later on, he showed me a 3D environment where I could put goggles on and move around inside. I mean, that made the hair stand up on my arms. It was unbelievable. So I don't know if I could really describe how that made me feel. It felt like I was teleported back there. And that's when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's talent. I said, you know, I'm behind this and flew out to Canada a couple times. I didn't have much to do with the film other than, I guess a couple times going out there and going, no, that's right, that's the wrong color. Move this here, do that. But those guys spent over three years working on it. And they never showed me anything. I speak to Luigi a couple times a month and you know, you don't always say, oh my God, you won't believe this. I said, show me. No, it's not done yet. So I really didn't get it to see anything until close to the end. But when I did, really without trying to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes going that that's it. You did it. Just stop. It's perfect. Well, I had the pleasure of watching the movie with you and sitting there with you, there was a bunch of times in the movie, you're like, yeah, yeah. You could tell. Yeah. Yeah. I swear I could feel that place. I could feel it watching that movie. It just, it really freaks me out because, as I've said before, it's not like what I saw. It's exactly what I saw. It's perfect. It's just like Luigi was at us for with a camera. So it's very unique. It worked. It's a very unique documentary in that regard and watching it with you, seeing you, experiences thing. And then me trying to imagine what it's like for you. You're this young scientist who gets brought in on this thing without much explanation and then all of a sudden you're confronted by this craft. And you, you know, the way it's broken down in the film and you get to actually see you viewing this thing and being in the presence of this thing for the first time. It's just, I could just only imagine what that must have been like for you. And it's so weird to watch you watch it again and see your wheels spin. Yeah. What the fuck happened to my life, man? What did they do to me? What did they make me experience? Like, what the hell? Yeah. I really can't feel in the blanks there. It's, I want to just say that there was a time when Bob got angry at me a lot because I wouldn't show him. And he was like, come on, show me. And I said, it's not ready yet. I don't want to show you something. But at a certain point we had to. And Bob started remembering more stuff. Yeah, that's true. It really made a big difference when he showed me some things and, you know, walking down the corridor here in turn. Oh, stop. Wait, there's another door there. I mean, it was like I was going back into the facility. And really brought, I mean, actually seeing it again, really brought some things back that I had completely forgotten about. So that, you know. Well, what's really fascinating is for people that don't know your story, you came up with a story, you talked to George Napp, and was it 89? 88, 88, 88, 89 somewhere in there. So late 80s, you've essentially told the exact same story all these years. And then within the last, you know, nine, 10 years, we've started to get all these reports. There was the New York Times story. There was the Go Fast video and the Flair video. And all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model moving. Right. Which kind of freaked a lot of people out with the way it rotated and turned. Yeah, does the belly roll faces at the bottom towards where it's want to go? And then it takes off. Yeah. It's exactly how you described all those years ago, which is really fucking crazy. Well, that's, I mean, that's the way it was. But it's just, it's, it's crazy because you had this story way, way, way back then. And everybody's like, this guy's just making things up. This is all cock-a-mamey bullshit. And then you see those videos from these fighter jets and you're like, whoa. Wait a minute. It's moving the exact same way he described. It's doing what he described in 1989. Yeah. Yeah. It's time to take a drink. Cheers. Yeah. Because it's so weird. I can't, I mean, I've had so many conversations with people. And, you know, one of the things that comes up is, do you think Bob was always telling the truth? And I say, "Look, I don't know. There's no way I can do it."
- Yeah, I can know, but he doesn't seem like he's lying. I've been around a lot of liars. - Look, nobody can know unless you're there, you know? I'm the biggest skeptic of all. Although if you look at Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy theorist or something. - If you're a conspiracy theorist. - I think it says I'm a far right podcast. - Yeah, all right. I mean, yeah, that's crazy. But, shit, that's my train of thought now. - Well, they, that if you, like basically, are you a conspiracy theorist? - No, you don't even look at this stuff. - Well, you've had, if you have a lie, you have one lie. And it's amazing, 'cause you've told the same one. - Well, it's got, it's a pretty detailed lie. - It's also not normal. Like normally when people lie, they get bored with the same lie and then they come up with another lie and there's some other stories. You catch 'em, eventually you catch 'em. There's some cockamame-me-new thing that they come up with and it's the type of people that are that deceptive. I mean, it just, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the standard model of someone. - Well, there are other people involved with it. I mean, this is for the first time, Gene Huff, finally is on film, you know, 'cause when I had the, you know, the test flight information, it was one of the, not one of the, it was the first person I told about that. And, you know, we were all able to go out and see it and everybody knew that I wasn't crazy. - And then also all the confirmation that you were being fucked with, that, you know, when you were in the gym, they would show up and open up your lock car doors and open your trunk and leave it there so you'd go out there and see it, they'd go to your house when you weren't there. - Yeah, they were even, right, they were even following George Napp and I mean, all of us, anybody that had anything to do with it at that time, they were keeping eyes on. It was, not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation tactics, just letting you know, letting you know that they could touch you. - Yeah, so I've really worked for decades to push the set of my mind, so it's always tough to bring it back. You know, I'm done talking about it. And it's, yeah, although it might be funny now, it wasn't funny then at all. It was a really stressful time and still is a very stressful thing for me. - I know it's so many years ago, but do you remember the thought that came in your mind when you realized that it wasn't ours? - Do I remember the thought? - Do you remember the experience? - Yeah, I remember the feeling. - Of recognition, 'cause initially you saw the American flag sticking. - Yeah, when I saw the American flag, when I first went in, the first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back, you know, I'll slide my hand across, but saw the American flag and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nuts, you know. - It's ours. - Yeah, this is ours. This is a new top secret fighter. We can't with a new propulsion system and, you know, it explains everything because I never believed in flying saucers. I thought people were nuts. But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying, I was trying to replace somebody or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible. And they had two directives. One was to, directive one was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost, which is exact verbatim what it was. And directive two was to be able to disable this technology at a distance at any cost. And, you know, once you start thinking about that, wait, don't you guys know how the thing you built worked? And it's kind of like they left that out, that this, by the way, this isn't ours. And Barry is the guy that filled me in, going, no, no, no, this is an alien craft. And we need to figure out how this works. Look at the technology here. I mean, this is decades, light years ahead of where we are. And it was a shock really to me. I remember going home that night and just laying in bed and reviewing everything that everybody said that day. And I really don't remember how I felt the following days, but it was just a different feeling. Like the world just changed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, I don't know, I really can't put it into words. Well, I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine what that experience is like. And it's also very strange that they would bring you in and not specifically state to you that this is not ours. They just bring you in and just give you a directive. This is what you were trying to accomplish. Well, they gave me a bunch of briefings. Everything was moving at a very fast pace. And I don't know why. I think I mentioned in the movie. Right prior to I got there, there were Russians involved. And from what I can ascertain, there was an exchange of information. And then we discovered something, something of great importance. And of course, kick the Russians out and just held on to that information ourselves. And there was kind of a knowledge vacuum there. There was also an accident. And I was told I was embracing someone that was injured. I believe he actually died. There's no record of who this person was or is anybody ever tried to figure it out? I don't know. I don't have any names. I just know that Barry told me, I'm replacing somebody that he used to work with. And he was without a lab partner for a while. So when I came in there-- How long's a while? I don't know. But I mean, that brings up a good point. First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it was from another dimension, another time, another planet. I mean, who really knows? So I'll eventually get to answer the question here. But wouldn't you think this place would be more like the lunar receiving lab where everything is white? So you can see a speck of dust. There's everything is sterile. People are being extremely careful with what they're doing. But you're not seeing that. This is in now something akin to an aircraft hanger in the middle of the desert. There is dust on everything. People are taking everything nonchalantly. There's a friggin' poster about the thing. They're here, poster there. Thank you, Luigi, forget me. Yeah, I'm sorry. We got to figure out a place for that and put it in here. It's awesome. Yeah, but I mean, they went to the trouble of the making a poster. They actually-- I think right here. That's a good place. Right there. There it is. Right there. But they actually cut one of the amplifiers out of the craft. So my point is-- This isn't the film as well, you could see. Yeah, but my point is it's so nonchalant at this point. When they first had it, it had to be at that level. And they became so used to it, so familiar with it that, to them, it just became like another fighter aircraft or something from another country. So it must have been there a long time is what my point is. Because as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there and a hanger and be exposed to the environment and have security people walk and buy and people touching it. I mean, it's an an isolated, sealed, secure environment. And they were past that. So I think it had been there for a decade or decades a long time. And these guys were intimately familiar with it, not afraid of it, and knew what was going on. So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists, that it was there. And there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out and figuring out what it does and how to recreate it. So it just kind of sat there. And so-- I think they were making very little progress. And I think they kept going over the same road again and again. And they probably had other experts there and just didn't. And I think the reason I got hired is because I was a guy out in a left field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on. I mean, the biggest distractors in the-- in-- to me, anyway, in the story, are other scientists, other physicists, well, they would have hired me because I'm the top guy in the field. Yeah, you probably are. But I think they hired plenty of you guys. And you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything. I think they were looking for somebody that just would have some radical idea and just to push the project forward because everything had stalled when I got there. And I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress. One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate. And you have to be able to share ideas and you have to be able to collaborate. But that's not how this was.
was run because it was so top secret, everything was compartmentalized. Like the metallurgists weren't talking to the propulsion's people who weren't talking to if there were biologics experts. Like everybody was-- - Super frustrating. Super frustrating. Because I think, I don't remember exactly where that started again, it's 40 years ago, but I think it started with the seats. And no, it started with the actual skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material. And I wanted some information about the skin, the superstructure of the craft. And they said, "No, that's restricted to what's, "we need a reason for you to." I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material and what I call the seats in the craft. I still don't know if they're the seats, but they might be. I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually something else. But I wanted some information on those and that was restricted information too. There were other groups working on that. So they compartmentalized stuff so much. There was no exchange of information between any groups. I mean, you get to submit a written response that your supervisor, in my case, Dennis would have to carry over and they would have to approve. And you'd get a two or three line response from the other group, but it's just, that's not how science works. Science works on the free exchange of information. And they were just killing themselves with security. And it was really frustrating. It was terribly frustrating. - So was this a function of security people, people that are concentrated and talk to top security that don't truly understand how collaborative science works? - Yeah, that's it, right there. You didn't stop right there. They had no idea how that works. Because it stands to reason that whatever that thing was made out of, probably in some way interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique. - Exactly, that's exactly my point. And I suspected the material was an electric. You know what an electric is? - No. - Okay, you know like a magnet, a permanent magnet is like, you know, it's a magnet. - Right. - For ever it's a magnet. It has a magnetic field. An electric is a material that has a permanent static field to it, a static electric field to it. And I strongly suspected that the craft was made out of an electric. And I was not, because again, that's the material science guys. I was not allowed to connect that to, but that's so important to connect it to the propulsion system and how the propulsion system interacts with the amplifier or the emitters. And I just, I wasn't allowed, you know, the information I needed. So it was, I don't know. It was self-defeating. - Well, it seems like they were treating it like a fighter jet or a automobile. Like in an automobile, you have the outer area, the shell of the car, you have the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff, which is, but then you have the propulsion system, which is the engine and the transmission and the tires and the wheels and the suspension. But they're all not connected. They're connected because they're bolted together, but they have different functions. I think the idea or the concept, at least as I'm gathering from you, is that this thing all worked as a cohesive unit. - Right. - With no physical connection between, you know, between the subsystems. - And all of it made out of the same material. - At least on the outside, at least on the outside, it all made out of the same material. And the other crafts all had the same power plant in them. So that brings to mind, you know, like a GM plant that makes a car with a Chevy 350 and makes, you know, a dozen different models to it. - Right. - So that makes you think about, boy, is there a factory making these things? And, you know, your brain can just wander off in directions, but I tried to stick with just the technology. - Did you know who the metallurgists were? The people that were-- - Oh, I saw them, you know, I know them. And we'd go to the lunchroom, and the Barry would point them out, you know. - And you weren't allowed to communicate with them at all? - Oh hell no. You have a lab partner, which my, in my case was Barry, and you have, you're allowed to talk to your lab partner, but you can't talk to any other group that has to go through a written request, has to go to your supervisor, and he'll bring it over to them, and they'll bring it back, and so on and so forth. But yeah, that's ridiculous. But that it slows down any progress you might be making. - Which is why they were probably stalled out for decades. - Yeah. - Did you ever expressly communicate to them that you theorized at least that this hall could be connected? That there's something about the way the metal works. - Oh, we all knew that. We all knew that. Because we'd get requests from other groups. And you could tell their desperate, just like we are, and fighting against the system. - What kind of request would you get? - Just exactly what we found out, you know. What, where is the energy being transferred here? If the reactor fires up, is there a field present around it, or is the field just absorbed into the emitter, and you can touch the reactor itself, and just little things like that, you know. If, and actually that was an important thing. When the reactor's operating, is it perfectly tuned, the emitter to where it removes all the energy from the reactor and pushes it out the bottom? And the answer to that was no. I remember that as a specific request from one of the groups. The metallurgy group is the one that we really wanted to hear from. And some of the groups, I don't even know what some of the other groups were. But, how many groups were there? - I don't know. There are only 22 people there total, including myself. So, I would like for you to tell Joe, one of the things that all interested me, 'cause I built a craft, is how the wave guide worked with the ceiling in interior, and how it blended. If you can explain there was no telescope. - Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the metallurgist people. The reactor that sits on the bottom of the craft has a little dome over it. And there's something that looks like a pipe that's slight, you can lift it up and take the reactor out, put the reactor in and lift it down. But, you know, like antenna works on an old walkie-talkie. It has different sections. There it is. There's from the video. - There it is. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, you can retract the pipe, but there's no sections, and it doesn't get any thicker. It just becomes smaller. And if you look underneath, where the emitters hang down, they turn, and it doesn't buckle. It's a magical material. This is the basis of the craft is really the material that it's made of. It's amazing the way it works. It just, you can push it into a smaller volume, and it doesn't change at all. It doesn't, it doesn't get bigger physically. It's, I don't really know how to describe it. - So you're lifting the pipe up and down, but it's not going anywhere. - Look, if you add a big pipe, and you push it together, it has to get thicker. Because the material has to go somewhere. This doesn't. Okay, it stays in exactly the same dimensions. - How? - Well, yeah. - 'Cause you couldn't talk to the metalers, so you had no idea. - Yeah, but those guys knew how. - They did know how. - Well. - Well, they know it did it. - They know it, they know it did it, and that's their job. So I imagine they have more information than I did. But that was fascinating. It really was. And the waveguides, it hold the emitters. They come down and the emitters can turn and bend, and the pipes bend, and nothing changes in them. And there's no wires or anything to make the pipe bend. I'm trying to relate it to something, but I can't think of anything to relate it to. - Well, one thing that you said that I also thought it was fascinating, there's no seams. So everything looks like it's 3D printing. - Again, right, it comes down to the material. - Which at the time, 3D printers weren't real, right? - Yeah, at the time that really confused me, I said, how did they build this? It must have been built out of wax or something, and then melted. because you're a little bit more focused on your work.
You can't build anything without seams. Then 3D printing came into existence and you could build stuff from layers up. That made sense. Some sort of 3D printer or they grew it in some, of course it's not a crystal in fashion, but I don't know how that was fabricated, but it was fabricated different than anything that we have. I don't even think it was 3D printed. And so you never got any inkling or any understanding of what the metal was, what kind of an alloy, what it consisted of? All I can say it was cold to the touch because when I touched it, I can't say it was a ceramic or metal because it was cold. Because it looks like metal. And this is. Yeah, it looks like metal. This is the designs by Perry version of it. How much does that look like it? No, that's 100%. That's it. Yeah, that's it. It's got to have the first ripple supposed to be black. Yeah, right. See? Yeah. So Luigi has gone over the. I mean, I've built many times. So there's an insulator ring and a lot of. Jimmy, show what it looks like in the film if you could show one of the images. I don't. I was pulling off the trailer and I don't. They've been holding that back from. Yeah, on the trailer there's some ring. There's a ring. I got it. Yeah, there's a ring around it. And we measured the voltage on the craft and there was a high voltage on it. And above that ring, there is. This is not a good shot. There's probably a. It's very quick, massive. This is the original trailer. It's the new trailer that would actually. Yeah, that one there. And you'll get to see it right there. Actually, right after this. It's actually before this, I believe. You're going to see the craft. And if you see there's a black. Right, there's like a black line. It's the first ripple. That's actually not metal. Yeah, we call that. Yeah, there it is. That's a good shot. We call that the insulator ring because below that there's a high voltage present on the craft all the time and above that there isn't. I would imagine that your life has like two completely different chapters is before this and after this. Whereas once you see it, the whole rest of your life is now going to be very different. And you are in its presence for how long would you work there for? I don't know. Maybe six months or so. So for six months, you're around this thing. And I would imagine that's to occupy your thoughts 24 hours a day. Well, at the time it did for sure. It's actually three stages to the life. It's before it, during and after it. Before it was just my life, during was when it happened. And then the after part of my life is almost trying to dismiss it, you know, to just go on. Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time. I mean, you did the George snap interviews. You talked about it a little. You made some videos explaining things and how things worked. No, I don't really like public attention and I don't really like doing interviews. As you probably know. But I know there's people that thrive on that stuff, but, you know, I felt privileged to be part of the project, but it left me with an insatiable appetite. Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone. Like even when I was there in the 80s, they were talking about moving the project at that time. So I really, I'm dying to know, is it still there? Has it moved on? Did they split it up and move it to other places? Yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to the South Pacific like in Quajilin or something, but they said the expenses were so great they couldn't do that, but they wanted it away from everybody. And they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada, you know, by South of Area 51. But that's the best place they had at the time and the most affordable. And of course now with, you know, budgets being so tight, who knows where it is. Who knows if budgets are tight for this though? Yeah, that's true. That's true. I mean, they did say at whatever expense, figure this out. Yeah, they were serious about that. We don't really care what it was. So like the original Apollo program, you know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts and if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person and take their stuff if they needed it. And you know, they had an unlimited budget. I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything. And uh, or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology. There you go. It's there in lies the problem is that they're dealing with something that's not possible with like you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989. No, but that's what they wanted to do. And really thinking about that now, I'm not sure. I'm not exactly sure. These guys should be allowed to do that. This is really powerful technology. And the world has really changed. And we have a lot of crazy people doing stuff now. And nonsense transmits through the population at the speed of light. And uh, you know, I don't know. This can be a very powerful world conquering technology. And look, for 40 years, I think I've said this before. For 40 years, all the people in control of this information have all agreed to keep it quiet. And these aren't idiots. These aren't idiots for 40 years. You have a line of people that all have agreed, no, let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. There has to be a reason why. And if they all agreed to that, maybe I'm the asshole. No, really, maybe they're right. And maybe you would have figured that out if you kept working for them. Yeah, I don't know, but I'm increasingly thinking I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe this is supposed to be just kept quiet. Yeah, but that doesn't ring true because I don't think it's ever healthy. If small groups of individuals have information that would change our understanding of where we are, there's that. It's, I don't think they, I don't think they deserve it. I don't think it's right. I don't think it makes any sense. Well, I don't know, I mean, really, but really think about it. What if it's something that's really dramatic? Like how so? What do you think would be like? I don't know. Maybe, I mean, what if it's, I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like, you know, like we, like we raise cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just going to be food. But if it's something like that, what if we're just like, you know, a population of creatures that are just to be consumed in some way? I don't know if we're to be consumed, but I do think we are not physically concerned like eaten, but I mean, I think we have a task and I'm more and more convinced as time goes on that we were engineered. I don't think we came about as a normal evolutionary process like all the other animals. Yeah, I agree with that. I really agree with that. There's a lot of people that think that it just doesn't make sense objectively. I mean, without seeming like a cuck or someone who buys into conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on Earth, why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter. We're a weird animal. We're very strange. Like we don't seem to have normally adapted to our environment. With the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity and electronics and flight and travel, we're so beyond everything else that evolved. Whereas every other animal, predator or prey, planet or a meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem. And then you have us, which is like almost like an invasive species, like invasive species destroy ecosystems like because they don't belong there. Well, that's kind of what we do. Like we suck all the fish out of the ocean, we pollute the rivers with our technology, we mess up underground water systems with fracking and we're liking invasive species in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. We're really weird. I can't argue with that at all. Yeah, this is Timbershet thing. So Timbershet is a very interesting thing.
Chad has recently been talking about this and that he can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen, if the things that I've seen have released. Yeah. He said, "We just need to disclose it all. I'm sick of it. Ah, well, I was briefed and I will tell you this. I was brief last week on an issue or excuse me two weeks ago and it would have set the earth on. This country would have come unglued. I think if they would have heard all that I heard." Well, this is what I was talking about. If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down going, "Oh, look what we discovered. You know, here I have some information and you know, what if it's not that? What if all the information is bad? Well, what would be bad? Like, if you ever thought about this, tried to like play it out to its natural conclusion, like, what do you think the scenarios could be that's bad?" I don't know. Everything that we're, look, we view ourselves at the top of the food chain. What if we're not anywhere near there? I don't think we are. Okay. What if we're just consumables? Well, I don't know, like, chimpanzees are consumables, right? They're not at the top of the food chain either, right? No, but there's, I would consider them substantially lower than we are. Right. Like, my good friend that died John Lear, who had a bunch of crazy thoughts, I mean, he used to come over and tell us that, you know, on the moon there was a soul sucker. And when you, he said this, "You better give me that bottle." That would have been a drink before you just played this one. Oh boy, a soul sucker. John Lear was an eccentric individual. I'm just kind of sad I never met him. Man, he was supporting evidence. He was a, what? Terrence, we can't be talking about the moon. Moon thinks soul can't shine. Yeah, yeah. No, he'd give me pictures of these giant antennas on the moon. In fact, I'll tell you a story. He was an accomplished pilot. He had many world records and things of that, you know, part of the Lear family, that his father invented autopilot, the A-track tape, all kinds of stuff. But John Lear was a loose cannon. At the time, he'd fly from Las Vegas and, you know, shuttle L-1011s, which are giant planes back and forth. And he'd say, you know, be kind of lonely. He goes, "Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis tonight? He'd come up at like at nine o'clock at night and say, "Well, no, not really. Come on, come on, fly with me." Is it just put on a suit and, you know, come to so-and-so? And I'd go to Macaron Airport and, you know, go there. And yeah, I'm going to tell everybody you're, you know, an inspector from the FAA. And I'm like, "Okay, great. You know, and I get on the plane and they say, you know, just act like you're, you know, going to kick everyone's ass." So I'd go on there and I'd sit in there, they'd fold down a jump seat behind the plane and I'd just sit there looking at everybody and, "God, all of this stuff is so illegal." And, you know, get on there and fly and, you know, John would take-and the F-L-T-11 was a pretty advanced plane at the time. This was in the 80s. And, you know, John would be smoking his pipe. He'd take off, he'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe and he'd fall asleep. And I'd just be, you know, hanging out there and, you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up and, you know, be smoking his pipe and, you know, playing with land itself. At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons and he said, "Yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here." And, I think they had an engineer also on another panel. I don't quite remember, but I was there with my wife, there were people on board and he ate, say, "Hey, come on here and take the wheel." And he'd get the captain of the plane. You know, I think my wife was in her 20s at the time and just sit her down and say, "Yeah, hold on to it." And, you know, just keep correct it. And he'd just let her fly the plane, which is insane. And, you know, the co-pilot would just look over and I remember looking over at, I think the engineer that looked at the gauges and he just put his head down and pretended like nothing was happening. And that was just one time, another time he was firing in L-1011, going by Roswell at the time I was living in New Mexico. And they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid, that the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that. And he was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell, just took the plane and landed at the Roswell airport. The whole 1011 got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station, gave me a call on the pay phone and said, "Hey, Bob, I'm coming over." "Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico, yeah." And he drove up, taxi would drop him off at the house, he'd walked, he walked anyway, flying on tired. And he'd just lay down on the couch, you know, and go to sleep and I said, "What are you doing here? What's going on?" I just dropped to plane off, they're not paying me. And you know, that's it. But I mean, John Lair was such like a loose cannon. He was a great friend to have, but he had no bullshit filter. If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information, or if he had a psychic come up from, you know, the neighborhood and give him all kinds of information, he'd put him in the same category. And so he really did have useful information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed up with nonsense. And sometimes he would just really lean into that nonsense. Like he was convinced that the sun wasn't hot and there were people living inside. And I used to die laughing, I mean, you are insane. I said, "You can't prove it, Todd." Yes, I can. You know, just go outside, you know, on a hot day, you know, and John said, "That's not the sun. That's just the sun's atmosphere that's on fire." And I said, "You're just crazy." But we got along and he knew that I thought he was crazy. But the thing is, a lot of people did come to him and give him good information. Anyway, I don't remember. That's the thing about some people. Some people will tell you nonsense and then they'll tell you true things. And it's difficult to accept that true things also come from people that say nonsense. Like just because they've said something that's nonsense, does it mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, there's another thing. And you've got to be able to discern. You've got, like I talk to a lot of people that say a lot of cookie things that don't make any sense, but then they'll say something that rings true. And it's difficult because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche and of those kind of people because there are kind of people that have very loose nets. You're counting on their filter working like yours. It doesn't. No, it doesn't. Some good stuff gets in there and you go, hold on, would you just say, tell me that again. How does that one work? Yeah, you can't really discount people because somebody comes up with some absolute nonsense. It just means their filter is defective. Right. Which is also the reason why they're willing to entertain things that are outside of the normal spectrum. Right. So like they might have actual real useful information, but it's wrapped up in there with Bigfoot. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But so the soul catcher thing. Oh, yeah, that's where I was going. The soul catcher. So I remember him sitting and I think he was telling my wife, Joy, the story because I walked in on it and he said, yeah, they're these giant antennas and when you die, your soul goes up. And I think he said the grays, you know, this alien race set up this soul catcher and that's what this whole thing is about. And as you die, it sucks your soul in and they use it in some way. And it's not where your soul is supposed to go. They just like set some sort of intercept. Did you say where your soul was supposed to go? No. No, he was just more really into the soul catcher. But that was one of the weird things about some of the documents that you had at least been alerted to when you're on the base and one of them being that humans are containers. Yeah. Yeah. And which the likely conclusion is containers of souls if a soul is a real thing or whatever that's what you would think. Right. I mean, that's what I thought. Yeah. I mean, it's just. I would prefer to believe that that's not true. But maybe it is. I just, they, I don't.
know. As Barry said, you know, they mix absolute nonsense in there. So if they get, if you, and it's unique to each person. So if you give out any information and they go, we heard stuff about soul catchers, we know that came from a Lazar. So that's just a way where they can direct where it, where it came to. But none of the problems like decades and decades, generations, generations of people working there, how many people know what the real truth is and how many people know. I don't know. I mean, there must be, yeah, there must be a group of people that really have the pure information of what's going on. I would assume, but not necessarily. I would think there has to be, there has to be a group of people that know what's going on. And, uh, who are those people? You know, and to me, like I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of questions for me, you know, like what would be your questions for you if you met you? Yeah. Now, questions for me are people that ask me over decades, the same same questions. You know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid me. I always said the name, everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force because, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, you know, this project, Blue Burke and the Air Force and all that, but everything associated with this was the Navy. So, and in these days, you hear some of these new types of craft that are transmedium. Yeah, you hear the word transmedium and in a David Praver, Commander David Praver, you know, with the Tic Tac and, you know, things are under the water. And, you know, supposedly the the craft that the sport model was an archaeological recovery and that itself was underwater. So, what is what is the deal with the water? I mean, it's it's by far the biggest medium of the planet. I mean, if you want to hide people down there almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean as long as you do it deep enough and away from people. So, yeah, number one is what's the deal with the ocean? That's probably the number one question. Because there's a ton of sightings where people see things come out of the water and go into the water. Yeah, there has to be a reason for that. But just in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space, if they, if whatever that thing is really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space time bubble. Yeah, but maybe it's not space. Maybe it's not space. Maybe, maybe it's time. Maybe it's another dimension. There's there's really no limits. If you can start manipulating physics in that way, you can bend time, you can open doorways into other dimensions. So maybe it has nothing to do with going, I look, we all want it to be like Star Trek. Right. You know, because Star Trek is really understandable. Right. You go out there, you find another planet, you meet the people there, you go to another one, well, all these guys are happy, those guys aren't, you know, and it all makes perfect sense. I don't really think it's like that. Look, you know, if you're looking at history, especially, you know, in United States history, anytime a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys. Never. We never come over and go, oh, we just want to teach you guys everything that we know. No, no, it's like, we're going to rape all your women, take all your stuff, and then just kill you. Usur resources. Yeah, right. And this consume everything you want. That's just always the way it goes. No, maybe that's just what humans do. But I would be concerned, that's what all life does. Well, we are territorial primates. And that makes sense that that's what we do. The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the grays, they seem to be genderless, and they seem to have no muscle at all, and they seem to have enormous heads. And the stories, at least, the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures is that they communicate in some way telepathically. Yeah. If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like all the things that are attached to being a human being, ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources, all those things are territorial primate instincts. And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend, Theo, we were talking about like what's happening to people's bodies is that people are slowly, we're consuming microplastics and thalates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system or testosterone's dropping. All this stuff like leads you to say, well, where does this go ultimately? Like, well, like how many more people are autistic now than we're before? It's one out of 12 boys in California now. It used to be one out of 10,000, just a few decades ago. Like we're moving into this very weird direction without us recognizing it. Let me stop you there. It's one out of how many? One out of 12 boys in California are diagnosed autistic now. But do you think that might be the way they're diagnosed? No. No, I think it's exposure. I think it's exposed to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins. You think that, do I know? That's not just me. There's tons of studies in a lot of buried studies too. I mean, if that's accurate, that's right thing. Well, it can't be just diagnosed because I mean, I know so many people that have nonverbal autistic kids where I didn't know anybody that had nonverbal autistic kids when I was younger. Well, you know, I mean, back in the 60s and 70s, there were no kids with ADHD. Kids that were like that were just assholes. I think that's still the case. I don't think ADHD is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real excuse to give people medication. I think ADHD is essentially a superpower. What ADHD is allows you to concentrate on things that you really enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on things you don't enjoy. I think I have it. And I think I'm very fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or wasn't or was born in the right time when they weren't doing that as much. No, I actually I'll stop you there and say I agree that that's a superpower too. Because it's very unusual. I can yeah, yeah. If I find a thing that I like, I can lock in and concentrate on for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no food. Oh, I need is like water or coffee and I'm locked in. I locked in for four and a half years. Yeah, yeah. I don't I don't think I think what ADHD is you're taking kids, you're putting them completely on natural environment. You're making them sit down. They don't want to sit down. They're very active and energetic. You're making them study things by very unenthusiastic teachers. They don't want to pay attention. They're fucking off in class because they're completely bored. And then you're saying that kids got a problem. We have to diagnose them and then what do you give them? You give them a draw and then all of a sudden the kids locked in because they're on fucking speed. Yeah. And I just think yeah, but if you focus in and let them do what their interest is in the video game, watch and play it for fucking hours with no food. Yeah, yeah. Because that's what happens because that's something they're actually engaged with. It's not that they can't be focused on anything. They just don't focus on things they enjoy and we want to turn people into nice little factory workers. And the only way to do that is you got to get a kid to comply. You got to get a kid to pay attention. Now we're on the same channel. I don't believe that ADHD is a real thing. I just think there's some people that are wired differently and they should pursue different things in life. Right. The difference between that and autism is very different and autism is especially when it happens like almost directly after multiple vaccinations. There's a lot of them they point to particularly the MMR vaccine. There's quite a few. When you look at the schedule of vaccines and how it ramped up and it completely correlates with the ramping up of the diagnosis of autism. But without casting aspersions or getting into some anti vaccine conversation. Wait, I just did. Yeah, I did. But what I'm saying is but ultimately the human race is moving into a very weird place. So I had a conversation with Shanneswan, Dr. Shanneswan who is she studies environmental and immigrant disruptors. So various toxins, thallates, microplastics and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system. And from the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and 60s, you see a direct correlation between the dip and testosterone rates in amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility. And then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint. So one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals in particular, when you see a child, a baby mammal, the difference between a male and a female.
is easily recognized by the size of the gap between their anal, their anal hole and where their genitals are. - But that could just be correlation. You know, it's like-- - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, explain why it's not. Because when they've done studies, where they've used thallates, particularly thallates, and they've introduced them specifically purposely into certain mammals and rodents, their taint shrinks. And their taint shrinks and their penis size shrinks. And their studies on alligators, where alligators, when they live in polluted rivers, they have smaller penises. And she talked about all this. And all of this, these are endocrine disruptors that are in the environment, that are doing something that reduces fertility. And it changes the way the human biology functions. And it makes men more feminine, and it makes women less fertile. Well, ultimately, when you look at the grays, what do they look like? They look like they have no genitals. They look like they have no sex. They have-- that might be where biology has to go to transcend away from our territorial primate biology. Our territorial primate biology that is insistent on war and violence and all. Right. And we think this is the place to stay. Exactly. And it may not be. It may not be. Yeah. It may be completely non-beneficial to all life. Right. Right. We have to transcend that. And well, we are transcending it, whether we like it or not. And what I was saying is that I don't know if it's a bug. I think it might be a feature of evolution, that our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us from being these hulking hair-covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that could fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep. Right. It seems like if you extrapolate and you naturally take that further, well, what do you get? You get really skinny things with no muscles and giant heads. My take also-- and I do agree with that-- is what I find sometimes really concerning is how fast that's moving. So it's not just a question of, is this actually-- this is probably a thing, but it's moving so incredibly fast. If I look at my father's generation or my grandfather's generation and my generation, I mean, it's similar. But now it's moving so fast. I do agree with what you're saying. And I'm thinking if it's moving so fast, there could be a natural component to it, but there's an intentional component. Right. If you wanted to do something to a race to change it, like think about what we did with wolves, right? All dogs are wolves. I have two dogs that are the first fucking thing from wolves you could possibly imagine. Is that Marshal? Marshal. Marshal. He might be a Marshal. Marshal. Marshal, who's a Golden Retriever, who's a sweetest dog of all time, and I have another dog named Charlie, who's a King Charles Cavalier Spaniel, who is even further from a wolf than Marshal. He's just a cute little fuzzy, little sweetheart. They have no killer instincts whatsoever. That used to be a wolf. Right. But what happened? We soften them to the point where there is something compatible with our modern life, with households and families and babies. And we made them safe. And that's happening to people. It's happening to people whether we like it or not. We could attribute it to all these different factors. Oh, it's a problem. We have to remove these things from the environment. This is what's going on. Maybe, or maybe we just look at the overall picture. There seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology that human beings have. If you looked at us from afar, if you weren't part of the human race, and you're just studying us, you're like, what does this species do? Well, it makes better things. It makes better things all the time. Constantly. You know, I look, I have an iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the iPhone 17. iPhone 17 is better. Won't you get an iPhone 17? Right. It just like keeps going. It never stops and never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get stronger. Your cars get faster. Your computer just more cores, processing, video editing. So much quicker. Everything moves faster and better. We keep making better things. We never stop and say, you know what? Society right now. We have a lot of problems. The problems that we don't have are technology. Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're living in right now. Let's just stop making new things and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrate on educating people, concentrate on counseling for troubled young people. No, no, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guarantee you do. We make better things. We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes. Everything we do, we make things better. And I'll, sorry, I have to add, we do that. And we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now. Think about it. We make better things, but we make them so that you have to buy the better thing after. Right. Then we're engineered obsolescence. Yeah, that's also important. Yeah, it is because then it also, human beings have this very bizarre desire for materialism. Like why would a thing with a finite lifespan want to accumulate objects? Like I know people that are in their 80s that collect things. Like what are you fucking doing with that stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to die. You have maybe like 10 summers left on Earth. And here you are, collecting stamps or cars. 10 summers, yeah. Oh, no, I haven't gotten to that. It's weird. Yeah, I mean, at some point you have to bypass the accumulating stuff, part of life. But materialism ensures a constant fueling of innovation. Because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff is that you're going to make a better version. Like I don't care how good your Mercedes is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes. Right. It's exactly better. That's new features. It's a new thing. And so it's like all built into the human psychology and also to this thing that I said, like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do? It makes better things. What does sharks do? They eat things. They just swim around. They can't even stop swimming. They eat things. What do people do? They really just make better things. They go to war. Why do they go to the war really? They go to war so they can control resources so they have more money so they can make more things and better things. And also the amount of innovation that is in warfare, in war weapons and war fighting. That's actually critical to keep the system going. Well, ultimately all that does. And all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems. To the point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of the race, we're going to have to figure out how to reproduce non-biologically. When I first got involved in. Yeah. It's something to ponder, right? It's something to ponder because we're so wrapped up in who we are. We're so wrapped up and look, I love being a person. I love living in Texas. I love driving in an American car. I love all those things. But what does it mean? Like what is that? What is that? You know, these are just weird identity points that you connect with whatever this species is. But if you just could just have a above view and you'd look down and go, what are we doing? Yeah, that's a good question. That's a good question. Yeah, like how far are we going and how fast are we going there? We're going pretty fucking fast. And now with AI, I think we're going way faster than we even understand. Because with Claude, I mean, they think that the Claude AI, the engineers, they think it's sentient already. It just doesn't have a physical body to be more ready. Well, AI is going to kill us. Everybody agrees with that. There's no question. I don't think it's going to kill us. But I think it's going to do. I think it's going to prevent us from breeding. I think it's a little to let us die off. I don't think that's going to kill us. But I think we're going to willingly go with it because we're going to get like mates, like ex machina. We're going to just something that's easier. But as soon as they come out with a female robot, that's sexually attractive or whatever, game over. Game over. There's just going to be no more babies and we're just going to die out. Or integrate. And I think it's much more likely that we integrate. And that's where you get the grays. I think what the grays are is a combination of technology and biology. And if you just go for a very wealthy-- And egg group. And you can go, "Chimp to caveman to gray." You go, "Oh, I see where that's going." "Chimp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow moving, weak, modern human grays." Like I've always leaned into what Barry told me because it's the only information I had that the craft came from Zeta, which is a star system, 30-some odd light years away. And again, it was just like a star trick thing. They came over here for whatever reason.
but that information may not be true. - Right, that might information, may information might be one of those things they put in. - That's nonsense. - Again, if it has to do with time, I think from what George is told me, Jacques Ballet and some other really credible researchers have said that these are people, either from another dimension or another time, or maybe they're us from the future. - Future, right. - Just coming back to interact with us in some way. - Make sure we don't fuck everything up irreverably. - Yeah, but it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job. - Well, maybe fucking things up somewhat is also part of the plan. Maybe that actually has to take place. - I mean, only count. - I'm not a disrupt. - Look at the way things are going right now. - Yeah, exactly. - Things are totally off the rails. - Mm-hmm. - But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is that we start making meaningful changes and implement AI as government. - That's a dangerous thing. - Exactly, but is it as dangerous as Iran getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as dangerous as the global is wrong? - Iran may call it fate. No, it's not Iran. - Iran's not getting nukes. - I mean, they never, they never mind. (laughing) - I don't want to get into political stuff. - No, you could. You could. Look, if you gave Iran the technology to get nukes, everyone has any physicists as the technology to get nukes. - Right. - I mean, the difficulty is actually making the material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I would have enriched to 80 or 90% because that's where you can make a weapon and stop there. - Right, it's not like there would be the only people with a weapon, Pakistan, in the North Korea. - But that doesn't make you have a weapon. It just gives you a shortcut to it and making a weapon from there and being able to deliver a weapon, you know, to 4,000 miles away, good luck with that. That's a big deal. So. - But they're in communication with China. Who has that? They're in communication with the rest of the world. - Well, then they don't need to enrich uranium or do anything. Can you give me a missile? - Right, but wouldn't they rather make their own? - No, but it's not even the point. - Rather make their own. Why would you do that? Would you rather make your own car or just somebody give it to you? No, why would you do that? You got a buddy that'll just give you one. - 'Cause you'd want to be self-sufficient. - You'd want to have your own production where you don't have to rely on someone. - No, you can always do that. You can always do that. - Okay. - I don't think they're ever, they were ever gonna, they're gonna absolutely make a weapon now. - Right. - Because we're kicking their ass. As everyone has learned, I guess you have to have nuclear weapons now to, - Right. - But this is a really bad situation. - Oh, it's a horrible situation. But my point is, why is this situation taking place? The situation taking place is because human being suck. We suck in how we interact with each other. We suck because we're territorial primates with weapons of war. - Yeah, can't we just all get along? - Right, right. - What is the way to stop that from ever happening? Well, one, you will let a catastrophe unfold, and then you offer a solution to make sure these catastrophes never unfold again. Well, what's the best solution? Will we have something far smarter than people that will take over control of resources in government? - AI. - AI. - AI. - This is Colossus. You ever see the movie Colossus? - No. - I gotta watch it. - Well, that's the merit against you. - One was a merit against you. - The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s movie, and it's about, the scientists makes deep inside this mountain our computer to take over the defense of the United States. And they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain, or something similar to it. And they flip the switch and they went, okay, we're protected. We're in good shape. And shortly after time goes on, they realize, wow, the computer's really performing better than we expected. And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing. And the computers wanted to communicate together. And they start communicating and the United States goes, well, they might be given our secret to ways. We'd better cut the communication line and the computers freak out and they go, well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs, at everybody and they launch weapons. And essentially holds everybody hostage, but it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of like a trap. If we go that way, it could trap us. It's exactly a trap. Well, you know, in simulated war games, AI's used nuclear weapons. Oh, they, 98% of the time. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because they're crazy. Why wouldn't they? Because I mean, look, the goal is to win. Right. And we're gonna present you with the scenario and they go, okay, nukem. And why wouldn't you pick that? You're gonna start with slapping them in the face. Well, why is it better to just bomb them over and over and over again until you achieve the same amount of death? That's the slap in the face. Nukem, it's over with. We can move on from there. Right. So, yeah. Well, you think about what happened in Gaza. Like you look at the leveling of all those buildings, the mass destruction. It's terrible. It looks like a nuke. It looks like one nuke instead of thousands of missiles and bombs. It's one nuke. But it's not. Right. In terms of the amount of damage you do instantaneously. Big guy, I mean, because we can detect a nuke. Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to where they discussed? Because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down all the weapon systems. No, I actually know nothing about that. Most of the UFO stuff are UFO lore that I've heard. I don't know anything about it. I've just looked at it. That's so fascinating. Because you're the most prominent figure in all of UFOs. I was telling him yesterday. Yeah, but I really only like to talk about what I know about. Right. Of course. And I've heard other stories, but I've never heard them officially. I don't know if they're really real. What's one of the things that makes you most credible? Because you're not a UFO. I guess, but I mean, it does with me. Because when people are way too into it, they want to believe too much. Yeah, yeah. But no, I don't know. Do you know who these people are? Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill. Well, see, you know, they were the first athletes. I mean, to me, they're, I don't know who first introduced those to me and I looked them up. And people say, do you believe them? And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing you want to do is be recognized as a mixed race couple, right? I mean-- Right, and go public. Yeah, I mean, holy cow, they would hate you. A black person and a white person that were, you know, in any kind of relationship. But yeah, they did that. Reasy story. Yeah. And you hear them in the microphone. And actually, on top of that, I have a connection. Yeah. Because Barney said, they're from the Zeta Ritikoli star system. And I believe it's Betty Hill drew a map of the Zeta Ritikoli star system and said, this is part of their roots. Whoa. But did you know that? You didn't know that? I don't remember that. Yeah. Okay, if you look at that-- I mean, remember it from what you said from your story. Okay, but if you look up and Betty and Barney Hill, she said, I think-- I don't know if I can ever get this stuff right. They show her a map and they say, well, this is a map. She wanted to know why they were here, what's going on? They showed her a map. I'm right. And they said, do you understand this? And she said, no. And they said, well, why should we tell you anymore? And maybe you could show them. Well, I know. Maybe you could show them. But they showed her this star map. And she-- Obviously. Look at that. Yeah. Underhipnose's Betty Hill describes a map she was shown by the leader aboard the ship. Later, she sketched it. She said she was told the heavy lines marked regular trade routes. That's right. And the broken lines recorded various space expeditions. The following year, the map seen at right was published in the New York Times. This is Hill struck by the similarity between the Times map and her sketch, then added the corresponding names. Yeah. And it ended up being the Zeta Reticuli binary star system, which was really interesting. And I remember when I first heard about Bob's story back in 1989, and he said Zeta Reticuli, I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw. So that made me also question, is that real in that document? Did these guys really. come from there, you know, because it was mentioned in 1968. Right. So why would the government, the US Navy, write that in there that would correlate to something that we already kind of knew? I think that was a purposeful disinformation to disinform someone, I think so. But why? Maybe it's true. Yeah, go ahead. We'll pause right here and you see the extra room. Okay. We'll be right back. I really got it. We'll be right back. We were talking about this whole Zeta reticulate thing. So when you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things, the idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kind of silly. If the universe is populated by all these things. I don't know. Does it? That's it. I mean, the universe is really big. I do think everybody can find this place. I mean, yeah. I would imagine it's like spots that you visit. Like, you know, there's Macho Picchu, there's Ancient Egypt, there's, you know, Subzaher and Africa. There's a bunch of different places where people go, you know, just humans on Earth. And I would imagine if you have an understanding of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably stages where things reach certain levels. And if you are a-- But they're far apart. Right? They're far apart. I mean, one could be in this quadrant of the Mokoui galaxy and they reach that point where they can travel and explore. And there's a far distant point where another civilization can do that. And I mean, really, do you think there are that many? I don't think there are that many civilizations visiting us. There's certainly-- there's no doubt that there's one from somewhere on the planet, on the other time, on the other dimension, whatever it may be. Someone else is here. We're not the top, you know, of the pyramid. No. We're absolutely not there. There's no question. Well, I think if you got technology that say, let's just say the Graze. Let's say they fly around these little crafts. Why would be assumed that it stops there? Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than them, but they also are completely undetectable? Well, if you want to view the universe as infinite, then it never stops. It scales out. There's somebody above them. And there's somebody above them. And it never stops. I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement and she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is limited by what our current technology is and our current understanding of what space and time actually are. Absolutely. And what she was saying is there might not be, we might, at one point in time, given enough time, thousands of years, whatever, be able to instantaneously travel anywhere. And that just how quantum, like sub-tomic particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand even at far dis-spooky action at a distance, right? As I instant. Right. That we might eventually get to a point where that's how travel works. That instantaneous travel everywhere. I think we just have hints of these technologies. Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equation. And things like that that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on and how they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe. But that may be nothing. There may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that, you know, these crafts, these people, or these civilizations just utilize. So, of course, I mean, if you just stop and think about going from Morse code to a cell phone in a relatively short period of time historically. You go to the difference between 1,200 and 1,400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology. What's available? The difference between 1,800 and 2026 is fucking massive. It is a massive, crazy change, right? So, 2026 to 2226, who fucking knows what we're talking about, especially when you have sentient AI, you have nuclear power plants that are controlling sentient AI that are fueling them and giving them resources. I mean, you really have no limit to where this goes. You scale out a thousand years. You scale out 2,000 years. You really can't scale out a thousand years. Right. It's not possible. Even at a hundred years, it's way more than we would have ever considered. Also it's exponential, right? That's why you can't scale out to a thousand years. And if you think it's exponential now, imagine when you have AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is what's happening with ChatGBT5, which is essentially made by ChatGBT4. Now, AI is absolutely the death of us. There's no question. There's no question. Well, we're going to become obsolete in terms of our thinking. But if we're obsolete in terms of our thinking, we're obsolete. Yeah. I mean, all AI needs is hands, right? I think we integrate. That's what I think happens. Yeah. It's a scary thought. Yeah, I was going to say, and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought because it's like, we're going to integrate. I think it's inevitable. Think you're right about that. We're just going there. It's not like, even if you and I are not going to actually do it, somebody will and it's going to integrate because other people will and it's going to happen. But it's still the same primate. We're still the same human. Sort of. But we already have problems with joints. So we replace them with fake ones. We have titanium knees. And, you know, yeah, but they don't work as good. They don't for now. Yeah. But before they used to not work at all, like, you know, I met people that had surgeries in the 1980s, like knee surgeries and, oh my God, they're crippled for life. Even though they put your knee back together again, it's still destroyed. You know, you get a knee surgery today. Six months later, you're 100%. No, I'd love to know the future. Yeah. Well, it's kind of good. I love to know the future. So one of the things I want to talk about is the actual, the generator, this thing that works on this element that bombards with radiation. How did you guys figure out what the function of it was and what it did? So when you're first introduced to this craft and you see this dome, the reactor that's covering this thing that's generating this power, what was the introduction to it? How did you explain it? The introduction was way before me. And that's where the guy, prior to me, either got hurt or killed. So they determined that this was the power source. And at some point, they decided to take that out to the nuclear test site because they wanted to cut into it. They x-rated. They only found a small tube that went around it. They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on. So at some point and Barry made this somewhat clear that they cut into the reactor while it was running or while it was under load, I should say. And the reactor exploded. That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced. But it produced the base gravitational wave or base energy that propelled the craft, that provided the craft their propulsion. I mean, when they removed it, the craft didn't work. When they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it. So they determined that was the power source. That's at the point that I was introduced into the project. So when you say gravitational wave, is that for lack of a better term or is it something that's measured? No, it's for lack of a better term. Like there's nothing, I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with light poles and push them together and they repel. But you can't take your hands ever and push on something and they repel them. That's a force field, right? That's science fiction stuff. But that's what this did. And this produced a field that repelled the craft from the ground. Did you try to touch it? Yeah, yeah. When you try to push it. I pushed it. What did you feel? An elastic field. You can push down, but you can't get close to it. The closer you get to it, the more it pushes back. How much distance between you and the actual thing?
I mean, I would say about six inches or so. Maybe about nine inches, which is about a span. And at some point, you can't push back on it at all. But the important thing is if you have a magnet, a little disc magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet, and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right? Yeah. Because it's pushing on it. But the craft didn't. The reactor didn't. If you had the reactor there and you pushed back on it, it didn't push away when you pushed on it. It just prevented you from touching it. Yeah. And so when Dennis said go out there and look under the craft, here's the craft, whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground. And I went underneath it. You would think it's translating its weight onto the ground and pushing-- and I should be-- Squashed. Squashed without any doubt. But I'm not. There's no feeling there at all. So it's not translating its weight or its push to the ground and pushing off the ground. It's just cancelling out its weight, which is something completely different. And so when-- so element 115-- so you have it in this triangle shape form. Did you ask how they got into a triangle shape form? Was it made like this? This is how it came in the rear. I'm sure I did. But I mean, it only worked like that. It worked like a stack of discs and had to be cut at a certain angle to work in the reactor. And did they say they cut it? Or did they say it was already cut? Well, it was already cut and they were duplicating it. Pull that microphone up, too. So they were duplicating it. Did they have more of it? This element? Yeah, yeah. They had quite a bit of it. So either there was a quantity and other crafts or other reactors that they removed. Yeah. But was there any discussion that there had been some sort of an exchange where they had been giving this? No. So one of the things, like, you know, Diana Pousalquez, she's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs and she's worked with Gary Nolan and on material recollection from supposed crash sites. And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations. And-- I guess that's possible. Right. Well, it doesn't make sense if this thing crashed. Why is it perfect? Why is it not destroyed? Look, I've heard so many-- I'm not into UFOs. Right. Crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. I'm just interested in the technology. And I feel very privileged to have been involved in the project. But I don't know. I don't think there can be that many crashes, do you? No. This advanced technology-- You think they're coming to Earth and just-- there's a thunderstormer and they're crashing into the ground? I'm not buying that. There's one logical explanation that does actually make sense. There were some high-altitude nuclear tests that they did. And-- Well, there was the TEEK test back in the '60s. Starfish prime. And Starfish prime, right? Yeah. If you had no idea that this was about to happen, and you were hovering over Earth, observing us-- what are the chances? What are the chances? They're not very high. Yeah. They're not very-- What are the chances of crashes coming over in a nuclear test? That exact second? Unless there's a lot more observation than we know, and that they just observe us in a way that we can't see them. Especially if you're going back to the 1950s and 1960s, we have very few satellites. We're very-- That was the nuclear cowboy era. Yeah. Where there were just-- Well, just-- Starfish prime, explaining to people what they did. Yeah. They had a 1.4 megaton detonation up there. And just-- I think all they did-- Let's see what happens if we blow it up at this altitude. I mean, that's crazy. There was another test planned to blow up on the moon. Just to make the Russians look like we were awesome. But they-- Detonate the moon. What if they pushed it away and fucked up our orbit? Yeah. I think that would take a lot more. I mean, I don't remember with the project-- Project A19. Oh, A19. That was it. Yeah. I studied lunar research flights. Detonated nuclear raw. Yeah. I can't pull up these numbers. But yeah, Project A11, I think. Crazy. Yeah, we're going to do that. Because everybody on Earth could just go outside and look up the moon, get blown up. And the explosion would be faintly visible to the human eye to people on Earth. Yeah. I still think they should have done that. But-- [LAUGHTER] Yeah, we do. You're the guy that put a jet engine in the background on the sea. Like, I honestly think they should detonate a nuclear bomb on the 4th of July every year. But that's just me. Well, also, you live in Nevada. That is the way I used to live. No. That I had a long history of them doing that. So going back to this reactor. So how was it explained to you? Did they explain to you how the technology works? Or what they know about it? Now, the way it was explained to me is, when I got to be alone as a Barry, he said, he was excited to show this to me. He said, this is the reactor that we assume power is a craft. Sorry. No worries. I'm going to show you the reactor, the power is the craft. And he turned it on. Small little dome on a flat little plate. I said, was this in the craft? There was this on a cable. This is in the experimental area. OK. And this was not the one that was in the sport craft. This was another one. This is it right here. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's in the film. On the table, and he had it there. And he went over to the emitter and rotated it. And he said, try and touch it. And I put my hand on it, and it rebounded off. And the closer you got to it, the more it pushed back. And that's a real shock, because there's nothing that pushes back like that. That's a living force field. So that really got my attention. So explain what is happening, like in terms of the rotation of this thing, like what is happening, like what energy is going into it that's causing it to go on? Well, actually, we don't know that. I mean, that's the whole thing. It's pushing back. It's a repulsive gravitational field. As far as we know gravity only has an attractive force to it. We've never, even with any matter, we've analyzed it, and it still has an attractive force to it. There's no repulsive force that we've discovered, because that would be a great propulsion system. But this repulsed. So this was a new field completely. But how is he turning it on? He had the emitter, which is a big pipe. What is an emitter? What is-- The craft itself has, on the main level, has the reactor and what we call the amplifiers, the reactor and three amplifiers. Right underneath that, there are three emitters that are right under the amplifiers. And we believe the energy from the reactor is amplified by the emitters and-- By the amplifiers. By the amplifiers, sorry. And transmitted to the emitters. And they produce this field that lifts the craft off the ground. And that's how it works. But there is nothing-- nothing even in our physics or our science that correlates to that at all. What is the energy that's going to them that causes it to turn on? We don't know. I mean, we just assume it's gravity, because it's the only thing we know like that. But it has a negative gravity effect. So it might be a new force entirely. But when you're saying, so you have this machine that's next to it, that you do something to that causes it to turn on. The emitter. Right. There's the amplifier. And there's the emitter, which looks like a big pipe. And if you rotate the emitter-- I don't know how many degrees. Was it 20 degrees? 20 degrees or something like that. That connects it in some way to the reactor. And it begins to be powered. And what is the emitter doing? It emits that field. It's not a gravity.
It could be a gravitational field, but it's an anti-gravitational field that pushes on the ground. And what's happening in the emitter? Did you study the emitter? Well, we attempted to, but no. There was nothing that we really came up with that. What does it look like? Like what's the internal structure of it? It's just, it's a hollow pipe with, I guess, little copper-colored plates all inside. It's kind of in the film. But there's, I mean, these guys have been working on it for years before I got there. And there was really no, no concept of what they were doing. Did they explain to you why Element 115 is crucial to this working? No. What its role is? No. So Element 115 was not even really discussed back when you were doing this. It wasn't even discovered or proven physically until it was a large Hedron collider experiment in the 2000s, right? No, I know they synthesize that. But look, and you know, in any element, there's always, there's always a large amount of, well, it doesn't decay. There's like, the, the, the, that was the thing about. In the large Hedron collider experiment, they were able to achieve it, but it only existed for a few milliseconds. Yeah. Sorry, I've had too much. No worries. So, did they, how did they define this material? No, there's, I mean, there's different isotopes of, of every element. And Element 115, just like any other element, there can be a stable version of it and 100 or 50 different unstable elements to them. So, I'm sorry. No, no, no, sorry, just continue the trend thought. So, it's basically different isotopes of it. Yeah, different isotopes. I, I need to stop drinking this. Yeah, have a cup of coffee. I can't, I can't even remember. Yeah, so, I saw if he's good. Oh, we got coffee. Oh my god. All right. Holy cow. There you go, little help. Yeah, there's, I mean, there's, there's different isotopes. And you were able to physically touch this element with. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I was fully. Physically, it is such the element, yeah. But when you're physically able to touch it, there's no adverse effects. It doesn't have any effect on the pot. Is it feel like metal? Does it feel like plastic? No, it looks, it, it looks copper like. I mean, maybe it's not as dark as copper is, but it, it's that color. And I haven't seen an element like that. It has unique properties that other elements don't have. It produces an anti-gravitational field. When combined with energy, with some kind of energy it produces. Yeah, yeah. And was it understood what is happening? Like, what is the relationship between this element and this. Like, how is, what is going on? Like, you're bombarding this element with something? Yeah, I, from what we understood, we x-rayed the reactor itself. And there was a path around it that looked, it made it look like a cyclotron. So, it looked like there was an accelerator. So, when they were explaining it to you, is, is, is this just your work partner that's explaining this to you? Yeah, it's, it's just very, it's explained. And did you ask him, how do you know this? Where are you getting this from? Is this. Yeah, he got this information prior to me. And they x-rayed it, found a structure in there to where they believed it was an accelerator. And it was interacting the point of the one, the 115 is in a little triangular piece. And it was interacting with that in some fashion. So. And did he say whether or not the United States government or whoever was doing this research had tried to recreate one of those on their own? That, that was our job to try and recreate one of those on their own. But what was the metal that it was made out of? We don't know. We don't know. Again, the metalers, it was not, that was not. It seems insane that you couldn't communicate to them that whatever this stuff is made out of, this whole thing acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like you could make the same exact thing with aluminum or carbon fiber. No, you can't. This thing acted differently. This thing acted differently than any material that we knew. And I mean, I think all the answers are in the metallurgy, guys. That's who knew what was going on, who was able to provide the answers. As far as we knew, if we didn't have the connection with those other groups, we weren't really going to make any progress. You were speculating that there was a type of metallic alloy that would work better with this concept. Was it Byzantine, like, was. Byzmouth? Yes. Did I say that? I don't think so. No, no, no, no, no, no. Someone that I talked to was explaining to me. It's related to on the periodic table. I mean, Byzmouth is above it and 115 is below it. But we never did see any correlation between Byzmouth. This was a completely new material. Well, I think, oh, that's what it was. This is what it was. So one of the pieces that Gary Nolan had found that was. Gary Nolan is the guy to Stanford that has examined these pieces that are from supposedly crashed sites, crash sites where something had gone down and scattered. Some of these pieces, they're atomically layered. I've heard that. Magnesium and Bismuth seem to be prevalent. Bismuth is the thing. It's right above 115 on the periodic chart. And there's something about that. There's something about 115. Yeah. It's weird magnetism stuff with Bismuth. There's a video from the Action Lab, the strange magnetism of Bismuth. Yeah, it's diamagnetic. Yeah. So let him play it out a little bit. Oh, I'm trying to find this. What is diamagnetic? Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic fields, I see. So it kind of makes sense if they're finding these pieces that are. The way he was explaining. That's what it meant. The way he's explaining this, whatever this alloy was, this very small piece that was found, I believe in. prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the exact date that he's had. From one of these crash, one of them was from Brazil that they had recovered. And someone had gotten possession of it in the 1990s, and someone had gotten it eventually to Gary Nolan. He said that to create this on Earth, first of all, it can't be done with current technology. We don't have the ability to do this. The layering technology? Yeah. And that it would cost billions of dollars, just theoretically, to make this. And it doesn't exist. Yeah, this is it. A ledge extraterrestrial metal, the bottom of a wedge-haze craft in 1940s. 26 alternating layers, one to four microns, dark bismuth, with 100 to 200 microns, silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece received from the US Army source were formed with a curvature that tapered. Oh, and the 40s. Yeah. Right. That good luck making the way it says it was. This is the point. Wedge-shaped craft in late 1940s. That's Roswell. I mean, that's Roswell. Or, I mean, what does it do? I would like to see the test results of just the material. We can make that now. We can? Yeah. One to four microns of bismuth. 200 microns, silver, yeah. The thing is like making something like that in the 1940s is absolutely-- No, in the 40s, forget it. It's impossible. But I mean, now we could fabricate something like that. And it would cost us shitload of money. So like the idea that you would make something like that and just scatter it around. But what does it do? Right. What does it do? Why? Why is magnesium and bismuth? Why in that particular array? There is something about bismuth. But that's why it's so fascinating. I would love to know where they-- Like, it's been 40 years. I would love to know where they're out now. If they continued. Well, they had to have continued. I can't imagine you were done. No, I mean, they made a move that-- I mean, like I said before, they were anxious to move it out of there at that time. Are you aware of the labyrinths in Egypt that David discovered? So there's a-- Are you talking about the columns? No, no, no, this is unrelated. This is something different. So Herodotus discussed this. Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick, who has uncharted X on YouTube. So, an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely
fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and left his field and started making these incredible videos. But he's highly intelligent, incredibly articulate. And so these videos are just absolutely fantastic. And really, he's very well versed scientifically. So you can understand these things and explain them to you. Like, they're examining the construction of the pyramids and the whatever technology was used to carve the stones. And there's just so much of it that is like confusing because it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication and technology that's involved in creating these things. Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths that were underground in Giza-- not in Giza, but Hawara, is that where it was? Jamial find it. The way Herodotus described it, he said, they were far superior and more impressive than the pyramids of Giza. Underground. Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area. So they changed the water table, fucked it up. That's whole area got flooded. Did they know they were there when they accidentally-- No, they didn't, because a lot of this stuff-- this is from thousands and thousands of years ago. A lot of it was covered over with sand. And there had been some explorers a long time ago that went there and saw some of what was in there. But the way Herodotus described it, it's just absolutely fantastic. So then they started using ground penetrating radar. And they started using these various technologies that could detect what was under the service. And one of the things that they found was there's a massive atrium. And inside this-- You mentioned this damace. There is a 40 meter long metallic object that is inside this atrium, 40 meters of some unknown metal. How deep is it? I believe it's 100 meters into the ground. So you're telling me ground penetrating radar can get to 100 meters underground. The stuff that the-- The Filippo Bondi is used from satellites. Again, we were talking more than a kilometer into the ground. And with decent resolution? Well, no. Not decent resolution, but enough that you could see symmetry. Enough that they can also detect things that are well known. 100 freighters and chambers. Well, listen to this. They detected accurately a particle collider in Italy that is inside of a mountain, 1.2 kilometers below the mountain. It sees through the mountain and can detect this thing in the exact diameter, the exact dimensions that this thing exists. So they can show you this-- And they-- Yes. A particle collider? Yes. So this is a particle collider that they know exists. So this is an actual particle collider-- So they're looking for it to prove it? So it's just proof that this technology is not just-- No, wait. I mean, hang on. I mean, how do they know it's a particle collider? No, no. The particle collider exists. The Italians have this particle collider. It's known. They made it. It's just-- Oh, OK. They just use this on the ground. No, they sound like we found a particle collider in the-- OK, that's what I thought you were saying. No, no, no, no. So this particle collider, they use this technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain. So they know that the exact dimensions of this particle collider-- you can almost draw a schematic of it. Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids. These columns are 22 meters, 20 plus meters in diameter. And they have something that resembles coils around all of them. And they're positioned at various points all around where the structure is. It goes all the way down into hundreds of meters down, and then it goes to another structure. And the whole complex of it, these structures, goes to over kilometer into the ground. But how can you see a kilometer underground? Well, you would have to understand this technology. But it was called radio tomography. And you explained it to me. And synthetic aperture radar, right? Yes. Well, whatever this does-- And then a kilometer underground at decent resolution? It's on decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the scope of what it is. It's enough to understand where spaces are. And where-- Like everybody knows about this, but me. I mean-- It's pretty fascinating. I'll send you the podcast, and I'll send you some of his conferences where he was explaining this to roomed fills with scientists. You would think they'd be anxious to dig this up. They are. And there's actual studies that are currently being discussed. Well, they already know that there's these channels that go in the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand-- because the sand's constantly moving, but these things go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down. Look, if they find shafts, hundreds of meters down, it boils around them. Look, that's advanced technology. Exactly. This is the point. Yeah, this is the point. Whatever this thing is that they have it in atrium, like if they said that they got that craft from an archeological dig, maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this, thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago. Yeah, I believe that's possible. Yeah. Well, the object that you're-- I actually got to speak to Philippa Biondi, by the way. He's in Italy, he's in Rome. We got to speak Italians. We got to talk. And we talked about that. I had no idea they found something with a metal object down there, though. This is not Philippa Biondi's work. Oh, this is-- OK. --difference scientists that are just studying the labrants. Jamie, pull up some-- That's really schematics. --some really schematics of the labranth. So in the labranth, there's like a big large atrium. You got to pee again? Yeah, go ahead. It's good. Sorry. Yeah. I feel like a fucking ass. Don't worry about it. It's a mare. Clear your head. I have a broth. So in this labranth, there's a large atrium. OK. In this large atrium, there is essentially a tic-tac-- Really? A tic-tac-shaped object that is 40 meters long, that is of some unknown metal. They don't know what it is. They don't know how it works. But this structure is all underground in Egypt. Which is wild, because-- and how-- it's 100 meters? Well, look, we'll get a chance to look at it. This is a whawara. So there it says the 40 meter metallic object. See where it says whawara rising? Yeah. See if you click on that. It talks about the 40 meter metallic object, discovered in Egyptians. Hmm. I don't know. I can't read a report. Subterranean labyrinth. Yeah. This is people talking about it. Right. Got it. But so whatever it is, play out some of the video just so we can talk about it. So this whole thing, if you see some of the images, they're discussing. Friends, Lewis, the 40-minute-willing in Brown. And today we're going to talk about the work that I had in Chicago. And the team that was in Poland as well. And at that point, it's when I had met the person who we've seen the lobus who later became my wife six months later. So yeah, you actually were working with the NRAG and then the-- I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. This is not going to help us. But if you could just go to some of the images where they've sort of outlined-- I've just-- I find it that there is not a very clear image of the metallic object that-- No, that's fine. But just the labyrinths itself. What do you think the structure of it was? So I don't know where they got this from. It's also the other issue. The other issue. 40-meter mystery metal object. That's a weird rendering that doesn't usually come out from-- Right. But there's some other drawings of like from the Herodotus days. Yeah, but I do. So this is what they think it looks like under the ground, which is fucking completely bonkers. And if there is some 40-meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about like the sport model being a part of an archeological dig, they might have found something back then-- That was-- --worship that thing and had that thing as like-- You turned it into this. Right. Yeah. I think there's something to that. Well, all these people that believe that there was an incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalyptic disaster, that reset civilization, and it took thousands of years. And what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, but a rebuild. Yeah. A rebuild. Thousands and thousands and thousands of years later. You know, that rings true with me. And me too. As Graham Hancock always says, we're a species with amnesia. And I think that makes sense. And I think if you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago, and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now, I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic, megalithic structures, where we don't understand. Yeah, we don't understand how that happened. We don't-- Yeah. And it literally doesn't make sense that they were able to do this. It's even like when we see those big gigantic stones and they're not just piled together, they're like interlaced. And weird shapes and all that. How did that happen? I mean, those are things that-- Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous--
evidence that not only were these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably more advanced than we are now with some different kind of technology. And maybe, again, it's like advanced, but in a different way. Right, right? Yes, the other way. Yes, the different pathway. They didn't go our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal combustion engine and electronics. Because we would see something. Exactly. Right. And we were talking about 100,000 years ago. There might not be any left, which is part of the problem. Right. But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there, see all layers converge at a central corridor or avenue. He said, like the H.M.O. shopping mall, where you can see all floors from one vantage point, a hall consisting of a massive space 40 meters wide and no less than 100 meters long. My personal interpretation, Tim said, is that the entire hall was constructed to house a centrally positioned freestanding object about 40 meters long. So this hall, they believe, was constructed to house whatever this 40 meter long, unknown metallic object is. How could they not dig that up? Well, they could, but it's going to cost a immense amount of money. And the thing is about the Egyptians, the people that run it, I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawaz. And he's incredibly dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what. And when you say, how did they make these structures? Two million, three hundred thousand stones, the way between two and eighty tons, the biggest stones cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through the mountain. And it's like, this was a national project. Yeah. The Egyptians did everything. Yeah. Because they were awesome. Yeah. Right. I'm sure they were awesome. Yeah. I'm sure they were awesome, but it doesn't explain the technology involved because there's extreme technology. It's to be able to cut those things. Like one of the things that they don't understand is these vases. These vases that they made that are perfectly, perfectly designed where there's the difference between like the edges and the symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair. And these are cut out of incredibly hard granite. They don't really, I've never heard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are familiar with that. These are these, this is a 3D print of one of them that exists. And they're fascinated by the perfection. And they're saying, how did they do that? We don't even know how to do that. Incredibly hard. Is there a stone? With an incredible precision. Yes. And granite. Incredibly hard granite. Incredible precision. Back when they had no metal alloys. They had copper tools. It doesn't make any sense. None of it makes any sense. Then there's the symmetry involved in some of these statues. Like they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between the eyes, the nose, the lips. Most, no one's faces symmetrical. Your left side of your face is different. If you combine the two sides, they look weird. But when you look at these statues, these statues, which are massive, carved out of granite, again, supposedly before they had steel. Like they didn't have diamond-tipped instruments to do this. They polished them. They're perfectly symmetrical and massive. Some of them are a thousand tons. And they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there. They all seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest. How could you not want to dig those up? Yeah, well, and look at them. Because I mean, they're concerned about national pride, but if you dig them up, it's not just national pride. It's the pride of the people that have been espousing this one narrative for so long. That's part of the problem, the gatekeepers of the information. It's still national pride. It is, but these people are idiots. That's part of the problem. Like, their own ego is preventing them from being open-minded and calling out to the world's research communities and saying, "Listen, there's something going on here that we don't have the big picture. We have a picture that we have formed from a limited amount of information, and we've been incredibly arrogant about what we're assuming." We also know that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name and carve their hieroglyphs into existing things. They would claim existing things. Some of the carvings on these things are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing. They think that these are old things that were there already, and then these later pharaohs should have to attach their name. Chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things. And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot, is the fact that there's no tools that were ever discovered in those areas that would prove that those things were made with the tools and they had to use tools and have something. So there's not even that. That's not even available. So it's like, "How did they do it? Did they hide the tools? I mean, why would they do that?" It doesn't, none of it makes any sense. And also these incredibly hard vases that you find, they're the oldest ones. The things that they find in the oldest sites. It's like the most complicated, complex, confusing technology seems to be the oldest stuff. There's also like. You had another guy here that does research on Peru, and he was talking at Kimbermber his name. I got to meet him. Luke Caberns. Was it him? Yeah, it goes to Peru, and he has a show about that, about the ancient stuff that they're finding underground in Peru. There's a couple of guys. What was the other guy? He got black hair. Kimbermber's name. That's Luke. The younger guy? Yeah, younger guy. Yeah. So basically, he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer is younger, and what's below it is what's really incredible. And more complex. More complex. But they don't want to go there because you're going to destroy an existing archaeological site that's on top of it. So what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level which is even better because they're going to have to break an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization. This is a common theme among people we build on older sites. There's a place that I go to in Italy and the Amalfi coast, and there's this incredible old church there that's over a thousand years old. But it's built on an even older church, and there's a plexiglass floor that shows the old church. Yeah. And the old church is underneath it, and you can see the structure of this old church. And I was asking them how old is the old church? They go, "We don't know." It's over a thousand years old. So it's over a thousand years old this church, and then this really old church is on top of it that's like hundreds and hundreds of years old also. But they built it on top of an existing structure. So this is a common theme. This is a theme in Peru where you see the Inca construction, which is like much less complicated, smaller stones, mud mortar. But it's on top of these megalithic structures that are carved in these jigsaw shapes where it seems like they've been melted. Yeah. It's freaky stuff. They have no understanding of what technology was used, who did it, how they did it, how they moved these immense thousand-toned stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, that's really-- There's a lot of that stuff that's really, really freaky. And then you get into old religious texts, and that's when things get really freaky. You get to things like the book of Enoch that talk about the watchers who came down from the sky and created you as a well. Yeah, it clearly is. A lot of unusual stuff happened a long time ago. Yeah, a long time ago. And we don't have a good record of it. We just have what we know and what we know we get very arrogant about. We know what happened. 300 years ago. That's a really good point of what we know we get very arrogant about. Right. And it's also-- And it's anything else we don't accept. Yes. And these people that are in charge of the narrative like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers. Because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explain to the world how these incredible sites were produced. And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it. They fight it because-- Yeah, they fight it. It's part of them. It's their identity. When I spoke to Philippe Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy when I was younger. One of them, she was younger than I was when I was there. But she's now become a respected archaeologist in Rome. And she's an Egyptologist. And I went out to Italy to visit family and I was sitting at the table. This is not even that long ago. And she's sitting next to me. And I remember her from being a kid. And she nudged me at the table. There's-- her family's all academic. Everybody's the doctor or scientist or something like that. So there's always that pride of the science. And she nudges me. And in Italian, she says, I'm really interested in what you do, what you're looking into. And I knew what she meant. It was about UFOs. And I just responded, I mean, I'm even more interested in what you know about what's out there in Egypt. And she looked at me. And she says, we don't really know all of it. She said a lot of it makes no sense. But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table. Because now she's going to come across as this pseudo-science type of like, oh my god, she's going to come out of the mainstream. So-- and then she came-- she went to her place. And I was still there. We were there for a couple of days. She came and gave me a little book. And in Italian, I don't know how to say it. He went--
The missing, I don't know how to say it in English, but the missing vanjeilo, like the missing scriptures, basically. It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible that speak of things that are not convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand. And one of the fascinating things about these missing scriptures is they found them alongside existing structures. So when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Kumaran, so they found these in a cave in Kumaran. It was kind of a crazy thing. Someone threw a rock and hit a clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot. So they threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there and then they started looking. And then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots. Inside the scrolls, they found the Book of Isaiah. It was a thousand years older than the oldest version of the Book of Isaiah that we had ever found. And it's identical verbatim to the Book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible. Along with it is the Book of Enoch. And the Book of Enoch is fucking squirrely. Yeah, the Book of Enoch was squirrely. And that's a good way to describe it. Just a few rabbis decided that the Book of Enoch was too weird because it didn't jive with the Torah. So they left it out of the biblical canons. That's why it's not taught. But the Book of Enoch is readily available. You could read it. And it's also in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian Bible includes the Book of Enoch. Really? Yeah. So those are the people that supposedly are in possession of the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant, yeah. Which is like Graham Hancock talks about it. There's like a person is set to like they have a job of watching the Ark of the Covenant. But it's known that it's going to kill them. So they all get cataracts and cancel all one dying. Yeah, like it has like bad things. Yeah, that's right. But it has some sort of radiation apparently. And they exhibit signs of radiation poisoning when these people are designed to be the curators. Where is the Ark of the Covenant supposed to be? Supposedly in Ethiopia. So you guys think that's, I mean, I think it's ancient technology. I think it's probably ancient technology. It's probably some completely not understood ancient technology. I'm not discounting it. I'm just wondering. Well, the fact that you're skeptical, even though you have the craziest fucking story of one car. Yeah. But it speaks to your integrity. It really does. Because you're not a guy who believes cookie shit. So for you, a guy who doesn't believe cookie shit is a hard rational scientist who's an engineer who's done things, like put a rocket engine in the back of a fucking Honda and then or a hydrogen powered Corvette. And then you go and see these things. You're like, what the fuck is this thing you have in this thing? I worship technology. Right. Nothing else. Right. So I mean, here's something like that. Do you think that that actually exists? I don't know. I'm how you think it is. It's very carefully guarded in these people who've been guarding it for centuries. I mean, it's just too much history. Yes. So, I mean, there's too many missing pieces of the puzzle to really say one way or another. I don't think there's- Well, they're not. It was just mythology or an actual. Right. But it is weird that he's talked to these people. They have these fucking cataracts and these people all say the same thing. They die. The people that are designed or that are designated to be the curators of this particular religious doctrine. Take this back to- I think I told you the first time we met, you know, if somebody found a nuclear reactor back at that time, you know, and they took it apart, they just would drop dead, you know, from- Exactly. Yeah. Magically from that. And anybody that came in to check on them would also die and they go, this is evil. It's evil. It's cursed or whatever. Or- And something that you're not supposed to have access to because it's divine. Right. Or some other, yeah. Right. This would be something at another level. Yes. You know, that I have to say, and I mean, I'm no one to say it, but I struggle with divine stuff because I'm like, this craft or this technology, I mean, our phones to somebody a thousand years ago would look like some divine object. I mean, it's technology to us. So we have to be very cautious in- I'm not saying there is no divine something. Maybe there is. We don't know. I think technology really could mask itself as divine power- 100% or divine energy itself could be technology- Sure. -taken to its final form. That's- that I'm open to. Well, if you think about what we're talking about was sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself. What happens if it's left alone for a thousand years to do this? Well, what do you have? You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself. In some axis. The zero point energy can do whatever it, I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement, complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created. I mean, this new theory is that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole. You know. To try to figure out whether or not there ever was a big bang or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes. So where do you think we are? What do you think this is? I think it's a process. I think we're at a stage of a process. Our problem is we have ideology, we have dogma, we have ego, we have people that are smarter than most people, but want to think that they have all the information and I don't think they do. And then we have open minded people that are curious but don't want to look like cooks. And they're all trying to figure it out while we're making a fucking digital god. What are these weirdo on the spectrum? We are literally manufacturing our own god. But if you take that and you extrapolate, you go from where it is now, you think about the exponential increase of technology, well where does that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean, that might be what God is. We want to think that God is a thing that exists. It just exists that created everything. Maybe we make God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're on the same channel. Yeah, I think we created God. I think human curiosity and this thirst for innovation is all a part of it. I'll say something about the technology because it always fascinates me. I mean, I spent four years with Bob and Ed to build it in a virtual environment. I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it. But if you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of whether it's art, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with. And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie. There was a test that was done in the lab that froze a candle flame. Right. Right. But the photons are still visible within our realm here outside of the field. And you're still seeing the photons yet it looks like it's frozen. To me is this is that technology like a black hole? Is it some type of time stop and they and it basically gives us the power to utilize time in our advantage. If you think about progression and technology, anything we do, it takes time, anything takes time, whether it's computing power, we're now we're seeing quantum computers do things that they're faster and faster and they could do a trillion processes in an instant. And Japan is coming up with better and then China. But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that? Right. If a technology can make you bypass time, it's like the record player playing music, but you're you're now able to lift it, lift the little pin on the record and move it to wherever you want. Yes. That's a good way to describe. Right. That point time is in your hands. And if we have a technology similar to what you saw, because you always said gravity is a control gravity time. It's interlocked right space. Yeah. Exactly. So if that's interlocked, then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve, sorry, to evolve faster. Because again, the faster we can compute the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving. And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it or should I mean should we be allowed to do that? Us in our current form. Yeah. No. I'm right. Like I said, I'm not exactly on our side anymore. Well, that was one of the, you know, I remember Jamie who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure we should be trusted with this stuff. Right. No, really. Well, really? You think about what we're doing in Iran right now. You would say no. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I would say no. We're still flying over patches of dirt and bombing the fucking shit out. Imagine if we had something a million times that power. Right. Really, humans should not be trusted with that. Right. We don't trust it to AI. That's what we're making it, Bob. This is getting scary. Yeah. It's getting scary. It is. But it's not science fiction. No, I mean, no, it's not, I mean, we're making fun of it now. Right.
- No, this is dangerous stuff. And I'm sorry for the people who think this is all a joke. It's not, this is real. And I'm really not sure we should be trusted with this. That's maybe why for 40 years or 60 years, people have agreed to keep it quiet. - I would agree. - And that's a much logical conclusion. - Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous stuff. And again, it's world dominating technology. And I don't know what to do with it other than to keep it from people. - So, and how do we know if it comes out? Something I always struggle with is, let's say we do get in a some type of thing saying, all right, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever that says, okay, here we are, we have this. Well, first of all, we have to validate it. The journal is, they're going to, the whole world. - Nobody's going to say it. - Media is not going to just trust somebody saying that. They're going to go, okay, wait a minute. What are you talking about, right? So it's not like because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it. It's like, all right, go show us. - Let's see, yeah. - And then when you do that, well, now you're exposing something else. What do we, what happens when we need to believe it? Like, as a, as a, as people, what, what has to happen? For me to believe something that somebody says, there really has to be something serious that makes me believe it. - Right. - You know what I mean? Like, if a president or anybody, prime minister, whoever it is says something to me, I'll still go like, okay, I mean, show me. And then when they show it, how do I know that's actually that? Think about that. - Yeah. - Right? And then from there, we now have to go to another level of, okay, well, if we have to prove it, we have to bring in scientific community, okay? That means they have access to it. What's the security parameters there? - Right. And then you get compartmentalization. - Exactly. - Right. - And then that stops any sort of understanding. - There you go. - And that's why you have this stagma, this stag nation of where you've got these people working on this thing for decades and not making any progress. - Okay. - 'Cause you know how far we could have gotten if there was free discussion between all the groups working on this. - Right. - Yeah. - But then you also have these fucking psychos, like from Dr. Strangelove, that want to turn it into a nuclear delivery system. - Yeah. - So you don't have to worry about them detecting nuclear bombs headed their way. You just instantaneously devastate Moscow in one shot. You don't even have to take credit for it. - Yeah, but we'd. - Right. - No, it's like we're not ready. - Right. - Yeah, no, I know we're not ready, but we'd be more advanced if we did that. - No, I agree that I agree with that. But. - It's all very strange and no one knows more strange than you. It like. - No, there are plenty of people that know more strange than me. I mean, Dennis knew more strange than me. Anybody above him knew that. I just knew a small part of it. - But you, out of all the people that can talk about it, that are out there communicating about it, you have actually seen it physically. - Yeah, I try to only talk about what I've seen and touched and verified. I've heard plenty of other stuff that I don't know if it's true or not. And there's no sense in repeating that. Because nonsense moves at the speed of light these things. - Right, yeah, it does. - And that's just, it's terrible. - You live in a weird existence, Bob. You really do. Because you've been holding on to this and you have this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a part of folklore. It's become part of the zeitgeist. Like, this is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done. This resonates with people in a way that look, I've done a lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on. I've had a lot of people that have stories. They're all very interesting. They don't get nearly the amount of traction that yours does. And I think it's because you're uniquely credible. You're uniquely credible in the fact that you are very skeptical. You're not interested in these fantastic ideas. You're very dismissive of nonsense. But yet you have this burden. Like you actually physically touch these fucking things and went inside and out. - Yeah, I mean, I was fortunate enough to have this really unique job. That's about it. And I am fascinated with the technology. But that's where it stops. I'm not interested in anybody else's story, although everybody has to email me. And I understand it. They're looking for somebody. Hey, I saw this thing out when I was around my boat. And you know, what is it? I don't know. I mean, they're just looking for something. And I don't know. Maybe it was Venus or something. And oh my God, you suck. You work for the government. It's like, dude, I'm just looking for a prosaic explanation. And you know, but I only know what I saw and I touched for myself. And everything else, even an official government documentation, it's just words on paper. I don't know if that stuff is true. So you got to draw the line there. - Yes. - But you know, I know what I did see, I know for a fact, and there is no way you can tell me that that's not real. - Yeah. I mean, I have to say in having worked with them and having inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper. And maybe there's a prop. Maybe there's gonna be a gap. Maybe we'll find something wrong with the story. 'Cause we went very deep. We had to build S4. We had to build a sport model. And there were things that happened over the years, things that he had said to us before we had built it, that there's no way he could have known because there was physicalities, real things that we built. When you build something in a 3D environment, you're actually building a real world. It's got light bounce and refractions like the real world. Like when you turn on light, it does the same thing. If a material has a sheen, you see it. It's literally the same thing. It's just computing power that gives you access to another world. And he mentioned things that were absolutely impossible to know. And he, one of the things that got, two things really convinced me. One of them was in the interior of the craft. You had said to us, it was very dark in there. And while Bob is explaining to us the this interior of the craft, and many times he kept repeating, it was really dark in there. Even though there were halogen lines on the floor. And so at a certain point, he says, as I'm crawling in, there's like these extension cords. And I remember going extension cords. Like it hadn't computed. And he's like, yeah, they had lights in there. And I'm thinking it's true. I mean, there's no light switch inside this big thing. It's 52 feet, it's big. And so he said, yeah, there were two big industrial, yellow industrial lights with four spots each pointed up. And so we decided to make those. We decided to research the type that were used back then in the United States, especially on military bases, the halogen power, 'cause it was halogen in 1988. And we turned them on. And it was still dark. And it was super dark. And I remember Christopher Matto, by the way, a big shout out to Christopher Matto, that's on my team who made a lot of those visuals. And he's like a magician, he's the best. He's there, and I say, Chris, turn on the lights 'cause we have to film in the craft. And he's like, they're on. I said, they're not fucking on. I can't see anything. He's like, they're fully on. And I said, well, that doesn't make any sense. It's so dark in there. Yeah, I remember thinking it should. That's light in there. And so we upped the power of the light so that you could see more. And I thought, what the hell is happening? I was, your bug, is there something wrong? He goes, no, I don't know. It's absorbing the light in there. We had to up the light intensity on those tripods by 20 fold in order for you to see the visuals you see in our film. Otherwise, it would be really dark in that craft. So how did you compute that? Like, what parameters did you establish? So what you do is you're inside a 3D environment. You're an actual, you're in a 3D world. Now we're inside the craft. That is 52 feet in diameter. It's, we bring a camera in there. So we were filming. The whole film was done with Blackmagic 6K cam. So we would bring our Blackmagics in the 3D environment. You can actually set that so that we could film inside the craft. So it matches the filming of our real cameras. And so as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens. It's the same aperture. Everything is as you would have it. And so you're trying to adjust for this dark room. But if the room is really dark, you can't really get a good look at it. Because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor. But you would have been like, what's the black screen I'm looking at? So what is the explanation for why it's so dark? It's just the way the light reflects it. And that is exactly-- yeah. Yeah. When you're in that space, exactly. Right. But here's the question. What are you when you're making this in a computer model? Right. What are you putting in that would make it absorb light that way? I didn't do that.
So what we did is we spent over a year with Bob. I'm not kidding, it was like a year of trying to figure out the material of the craft, the actual skin of the craft. That was the hardest thing to do in order. - The specularity and the reflectivity of the actual material. - One you see this. - And the angle. And then when the lights are in there, they just reflected a weird angle. And it never gets bright in there unless you have tremendous amount of light in there. It's always dark. - And sorry to interrupt, but that would have been, so when that happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpollished stainless steel, it's got a little bit of usage to it, just to give it some texture. It's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real material like that 'cause every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting like that. And now you turn these big halogen lights on, and it's like the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft, 'cause they were turned upwards. Remember Bob said, they were not pointed like this. They were pointed to the ceiling of the craft. So you got two of them. It's like wherever the light was going, was getting eaten up by that portion of the material. So it's not reflecting all the ways. You have a 52 foot distance, and it's being lost in a maybe seven, eight foot diameter environment area where the light is. And we're like, why is that happening? But that's how it, what that's the reality. He could not have known that. If he's trying to make that up, anybody who's inventing a story says there's two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there, a liar would not say it was really dark in there. You don't know that, you have to build it. So to me, that was a physicality of being inside the craft that made me go, Lazar can not have known that if he was making that up. - You wouldn't know it until you experiment. - Exactly. So I'm like, unless Bob, back then, decided to go in his garage, build himself a fake dome, which I don't think you did, I'm like, how would he have known that? We didn't expect that. We were struggling with, why is it so dark in there? - And you make films. - So you're used to using lighting and camera. - Exactly. And Chris was like, dude, this thing is just eating up the light. And I'm like, Bob kept saying, it's so dark in there. And it just, how do you, how is that possible? - What were the other things? - The other one, I laugh about this with Bob all the time. It's about the flag on the craft that you could have seen it. - I don't remember. So when he walked into the hanger the very first time, he saw the very first time-- - The background flag. - He saw the craft and he saw the American, reversed American flag sticker on the craft. - I don't know why it was reversed. - I'll get to that in a sec, I think I know, but whatever. I'll say what I think. And there's a lot of stuff, I researched a lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did this. And there's a lot of bad information out there. So I really tell people, if you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there, check this out 'cause Bob actually vetted everything. So it's not the wrong information to read. But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag. If the craft was that size and it was on the whole, on the craft shell, there's no way the angle, he's five something, he wouldn't have able to see it. So we built it, we built a 52 foot diameter craft, we put it in the hanger, it's there. And my team, Chris, gives me the goggles, the ones I made you try on. And it is the very first time I go in there. And I know the craft is there, so I put them on. And now they're hoping, 'cause they're there with notes, they're hoping I'm giving them all the notes. Oh no, that's not good, that's not good. And the first thing I did is I looked to my right, I'm looking at the craft. And I asked Chris to put me at five foot 10, which is your height. So I said at five, 10, I'm Bob's height with the goggles, I wanna see. And the first thing I said is, oh, it's, it there it is. And they're like, there what is? I said, the flag. And they thought I was pointing at a flag on a wall. And they're like, there's no flag in the hanger. I said no on the craft. And they're like, yeah? I said, you can clearly see it. It was clear. That was something that also made me go, yeah, this is it, this is the real size. So had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the tractors out there kept saying, there's no way at that angle a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shelf. But you can, it's as clear as day. So those were two things that I considered to be like, you know, it's there. So I know to maybe some people that's not a lot, but as a person like I am who's very technical and very, I'm super difficult. It took a long time to do this because I'm a perfectionist. And I wanted to make sure it was accurate to what he saw. I look at stuff like that because I analyze everything like that. And I analyzed his story inside out. And if you couldn't see the flag from that position. I would have been, it would have been a flag. Yeah, that would have been a red flag for me. I would have been like, wait, you can't see it, but you can. So you can't, you can't put enough of a value on little details like that because he didn't say this in 2026. He said this in 1989. Right. Why? Why do you think the flag was reversed? In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to ascertain is the fact that on military or on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, it's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag. On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way. If you look at vehicles, let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on each side. And they have a normal one on the left one, on the left side and a reversed on the right side because it's the right side of the vehicle. So it's blowing the flag. It's blowing the flag. It's blowing the flag that way. So the reversed American flag is a actual, it's the law of how to use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles. And it has to be like that on the right side. So to say, is that the right side of the craft? Yeah, it must be. It must be. You go into the craft, the seats, when you go into the craft, I can't wait for you to go in the craft, when you go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning the hatch is the right side of the craft. It's the only thing that came to mind. I mean, is that what they did at S4? The fuckin' put a sticker on it? I mean, it's the only logical thing we could think of is that's why it was there. I don't know. I'm, you know, my other, my other, because if it wasn't American flag, if it was just for identifying this as America, why would you reverse it? Right. Right? You're reversing it because it's indicating the direction in which you travel. Exactly. It's just an interesting, right? It's all interesting. The goggles is a trip. When I put on the 3D AR goggles and VR goggles, rather than you stand in that warehouse that hangers. The hanger. It's very strange. It feels weird. That's exactly like it was. It feels very weird. It feels very weird, because I mean, I'm only imagining what it's like to actually be you in 1988 and be standing there. When you put the goggles on, that's exactly how it was. What did Dennis say when you first saw it? He was like, "Huh? You're like, "Oh, Dennis was hardcore." Yeah. Yeah, he was here. Look at that. Come back in here. I mean, there was no reaction. Barry, on the other hand, was out of his mind. He couldn't wait to show me stuff. And he said, "Check this out. Oh my God, that was that awesome." But Dennis was, it was like a hardcore military guy. How much of a view did you get at the other crafts? Because it's one of the things in the film. You only see hints of them. That's it. That's it. What you saw in the film was exactly what it was. It was just a passing thing. And as I was walking out there gone, wow, there's more. Everything looks different. And other than the first two hangers, I really couldn't tell what was passed out there. But there were other hangers and there were things inside them. But that's also interesting. And I was saying that at the time in 1988, this site was not even confirmed. This was for you to have to know about this and know the exact location of it. It's kind of strange. Now, Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the general idea. I said, "I know what time I got out there and I could see Papu Slake and behind me." He pulled up a lot of stuff from there. But another interesting thing.
thing he pulled up was there was an old silver mine. Exactly there. And the exact same place. And I wonder if they used that as that it was already drilled. There was already, you know, carters in there. I actually, I actually held this for this show. What I'm about to say is first time ever. It's not even, it didn't make it in my film. I wish it did, but it didn't make it in the film. Veronica, on our team, she's my sister. She's like my right hand. And I didn't have her. I wouldn't be here right now. She found this. And at a certain point, we were looking at the maps out there. And we, you'll see in my film that Gene Huff sent us some US Department of the Interior official maps of that environment at the Grum Lake Papus Lake. But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to go deeper. We said there's got to be more. And there's one map in that is a publicly available map. It's super not easy to find, by the way. That is in the hands of the US Department of the Interior. I could get it to you if you want. I can email it to you. That map is the oldest map of Papus Lake known in the hands of the government. That is public domain. That map, and everybody's going to be listening to this, clearly shows a road that goes right into where S4 was. Is. It doesn't show a road near it. It shows a road going right in the mountain. And they removed it. That map is from 1941. Right after that, the map is 1950 and 1952. And those roads were removed. But the oldest map we ever found, it's going to be available. And we're going to post that on our websites, it can be everywhere. It shows a clear as day, a road that goes right into the mountain, exactly where Bob Lazar said S4 was. So do you think that that was the road to the silver mine initially? Yes. I believe that yeah. It makes sense that they would use an existing facility and just enlarge it instead of start from nothing. Right, of course. Especially if it's abandoned. Yeah. And it also makes sense that if Roswell was real, and if they really did find it crashed UFO in 1947, in the 1950s, they'd be like, let's get rid of this fucking road. Right? Yeah. If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they work on this for decades. You come along in 1988. They've got this happening in the 1950s. And it's still there. Yeah. Yeah. I think what happened is when the CIA took over-- because CIA's one took over-- they're the ones at Area 51. I think what happened is as they took over, they just removed the road. It wasn't even because it was a flying saucer there. I just think they got in there to control of that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, remove it off the maps, because it's there prior to them taking ownership of that land. So I mean, it's clear that there was a road there, and then they came in, see, I said, take it out. And S4 might have had already an installation-- not it wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already, because it was a mine. So it was an easier way to build a big facility in the side of the hill. Makes sense. It does make sense. And then there's also the images that you got of what looks like the hangar-bay doors that are camouflaged. And I have to say that-- Can I go again? Sorry. No worries. That's all good. That's a prostate problem. [LAUGHTER] Technology will fix that. It'll remove your prostate. Try new into a fucking alien. So that image that you got of the-- unfortunately, it's kind of blurry. But you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflaged garage-bay doors. I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe. Everybody-- everybody was trying to get in and-- getting to make me work with them or use something they found. So I was-- I was ignoring 99% of people's-- is getting tiring. Everybody's like, you got to listen to me. I know stuff about that. And I'm like, whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I have enough right now. But this guy-- we had built the base. And I knew exactly where it was. I knew exactly the layout. And this guy-- he'd not only contacted me. But he sent me an image that he had, that he had drawn. He didn't want to send me the real-- what he had found. But he says, here it is. This is where the doors are. And this is exactly where they point to. I looked at the image and I said, not bad. I mean, he really nailed it in the image. And I thought, OK, at first I thought somebody on my team leaked something we had. To be honest, I'm like, oh, who did that? Who sent out one of our renders to somebody? And because that's what I thought. And they're like, no, no, no, no. So I talked to this guy. And he's really, really good at researching. And he ended up becoming probably one of the best-- I've ever-- like, he's one of the best I've ever seen. He's named Scott Mitchell. And he says, there are pictures that were taken in 2020. And ironically, those pictures were taking on December 25, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which means the base might have been shut down. If you think about that, you know what I mean? Like, it's COVID. It's like in the heat of it. Plus, it's 25th of December. So there's probably nothing going on there. And this private pilot in a small cesset requested access inside the perimeter, and they granted him permission. And he had a big Nikon camera on board with a big telephobic zoom. And he took a shit ton of pictures. And they're all public. They're all available. You could download them. And there's these pictures of Papu Slake and the Hill. But they were being used on the internet for a long time. Everybody's like, you see, Bob Lazarus is a fraud. It's not real. There's nothing there. Well, of course, you can't see it. It's, first of all, 17 miles away. And secondly, they're not designed for you to see it. And that also, let's talk about something that Bob was talking about in 1988. The picture was taking in 2020. I mean, there could be a different landscape now. Anyway, so he said, look, this image, if you change the contrast, you got to keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image. Anybody who knows how to do that with photography, you can do that. Any pulls out these geometric shapes, you could see them. They're like little-- They look like rectangles. And I thought, what if this is not real? I was super skeptical. I'll be honest with you. I was talking about the picture with the doors-- The hangar doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we have in the film. Oh, right. And so I didn't believe it. I thought, there's no way. I go, there's no way this is real. I don't believe it. So Scott was really cool. He said, look, man, I understand your skeptic I get it. I want you to do me a favor. Go online, search it yourself. I won't even tell you where it is. I'll just tell you who took the pictures. The only thing he gave us is the picture number is 0501. That's what the picture number is. He goes, if you find it, have whoever on your team playing around with it until you see it. That was fair, because I said, OK. Because I mean, if it's out there, there's two different places it was online. And the one place we got it from was the source of it. It was from the photographer, the guy himself. We take it. I had three different people on my team. Everybody's really good at all this stuff on my team. So I said, guys, this is what we need to see. If you guys could pull it up, I'm not going to be a skeptical. Everybody got it almost in the same time. They were playing around. And eventually, the easiest software we used to get that detail out was DaVinci Resolve. And with DaVinci, it's a faster process than if you're messing around with Photoshop or whatever. And I was like, oh my god. It's really there. You could clear. So what I did is I had them scan the rest of the picture because it's pixels. So I said, let's also see if it's not some pixel pixelation. Is it maybe just what the photo does? Maybe we just got lucky and it looks like that there. Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere. And it doesn't. And then I said, all right, go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want-- because the guy kept snapping pictures. I want you to do the same. Like we went really military. Like I said, I want to make sure this is real. I'm not going to put our name on this if it's not. And it ended up being-- other pictures also show it, by the way, because he went click, click, click. So it's like it's not just that one. That's the clearest one. And so I was at a certain point I go to Bob's house, and I'm sitting there. And the guy calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me. And he has no idea what I'm with Bob's art. So I pick up. It's a video call. And he goes, hey, man.
what's going on. I said, "Well, look." I said, "Look who I'm with." And he just like exploded because he was like, "Oh my God, you're with Bob." And I said, "Show him." And so Bob was there and we showed it. We ended up transferring the call on the Zoom call. And he showed it. And you said, "Yeah." Like, I remember you going, "Yeah, that's it." Yeah, yeah, that. What did that look like, too? We saw those images. Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah. It was awesome. What was really shocking was the first hanger wicker. Yeah. Yeah, because that was the big hanger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because the first hanger is the big hanger. But a smaller one. So I said, "Jesus, the first hanger is bigger." Yeah. You found it. You found it. So I mean, that was. I just lit up at that point. Yeah. Yeah. What happens if you look at that site with Google Earth? That is with the Google Earth. No. No. That was the picture. But Google Earth. But Google Earth. And I'll tell you something about Google Earth. Yeah. That wasn't with Google Earth. No. The picture is a real photo. The picture of the hanger doors is a real photo. Okay. I said that was Google Earth. No. No. No. The Google Earth, though. You see that in the film. Yeah. I can't make this up. I didn't want to put anything in the film. I was one of my things. I didn't want to put anything in the film that would make me the whole team or even Bob look like we're trying to like, like, mageyver something in there. It has to be, you go look for it yourself. It's public. If you don't believe it, go check it out yourself. That's how that's what was. That's the only thing we allowed in there. And when you go on Papus Lake, on June 22. So June 22nd of 2024. June of 2024. Google Earth changed. There's. You're going to be right over Papus Lake. If you zoom in, you're not going to notice it because it's kind of a yellowish tint to the image. Now, remember going, why is it so yellow? I mean, I'd been there so many times. I was like, why the fuck is. Turned so yellow. And I'm like, I saw I'm zooming out and I'm like, why did they fuck it up? I thought they fucking ruined everything. It's all yellow. And as I go further, you see this box that is like right over Papus. So I'm like, what is that? And I put my mouse over it and wherever you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024. And as soon as you put your mouse outside of the box, well, it's an older date. And I thought, oh, they just did that. And the. So I think what they thought they were going to do is that new filter right over Papus Lake removes every possible detail on the terrain, the landscape where the brushes are and the Joshua trees are. It really, really removes all that. It blurs everything out. But it makes. They made a mistake. They made a huge error, I believe, so. And I think if they're listening, they're going to go, yeah, are bad to the DOD because they're going because you see all the tracks on the lake. It for some reason, that filter accentuates the tracks on Papus Lake and removes the landscape brushes. I don't know why it just did that. And I was like, holy shit, you see all these tracks. What it looks like is they're trying to purposely obscure the area. Yes. And the fact that it's in a very clear box. Yeah. And you talked about that in the film. It's kind of bonkers. And there's really no reason. There's no reason. To pick one little square box. Why? I don't know why. That nobody goes to. Yeah. So try to obscure it. Yeah. And so I thought, Jesus, we got to put this in there. I mean, it's so cool, right? It's all very compelling. I think we should wrap this up. But the film's excellent. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. It took a tremendous amount of effort. And I could tell by watching you watch it when we watch it together, it had an insane impact on you. And you had already seen it before. I saw it with you. So as you're just seeing it again, it's just like it's bonkers. Yeah. It really affected me. Is there anything else you want to say? There's a couple of things I want to bring up. Okay. Yeah. Just because I've heard stuff Luigi has told me people think that I make millions of dollars off of this stuff. And I don't. I would love to sign on to the millions of dollars program. Jeremy made made his movie. And I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's movie. I said anything you make. Give to George. You know, Luigi has spent millions of dollars of his own money literally, right? Literally, you know, making this stuff. And I can't see how he's ever going to make the money back if he does. That's awesome. I drive a 1980 something. Not a 1980. You drive? No, 19 2000. No, 2018. Yeah. It should be bolt electric car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing to drive it. Cost me $18,000. You know, my house on the 10 acres cost 450 grand. And you know, back when I got it, I mean, that's I work six to seven days a week and I did nuclear my business. I mean, if there's anyone that wants to give me millions of dollars, please contact me immediately because I would like to retire. But no, I don't make millions of dollars off this stuff. And I my wife and I do fine. We grow our food in our greenhouse. And we live in our little place up in the mountains. And that's it. But I, you know, this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's here. I think the film's going to be very successful. I think you're probably going to make money off of it. At least I'm hoping. No, he'll. Well, you know, thank you, Joe. I think we should wrap it up. Thank you very much. Luigi. Thank you to the other park. Thank you. It's fantastic. Bob. Great to see you again. As always, I'm sorry, I had a piece so much. That's understandable. It's understandable. And again, the film, let's show it on screen. Jamie, so people can know where they could see it. Wendy, when it's available. Yeah, it's available actually as of right now. Let's play the trail. We'll end it with. Let's do that. S4. The Bob is our story. We'll end it with a trailer. It's on Amazon and we are not alone. We are not alone. Right. Okay. Physical evidence now exists, which proves that there is life elsewhere. And at least one form of that life has been here. As of 1989, that evidence was in the custody of the United States government. Between December of 1988 and April of 1989, I worked as a senior staff physicist in what has to be the most secret project in history. My job in this program was to be part of a back engineering team. This particular disc appeared to be an excellent condition and because of its sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the sport model. The goal in this program was to see if the technology of the disc could be duplicated with earth materials. To start out the reactor, of course, we need some element 115. In fact, you need 223 grams machined into a wedge like this. The program outed S4 consisted of three projects, Project Galileo, Project Sidekick, and Project Looking Glass. The file on top was Project Galileo. And as it turned out, that's the project that I was part of. And that clearly referred to reverse engineering, a recovered alien spacecraft. Just cannot be a secret from for anyone, not just the American people, but the rest of the world. All this stuff is something that happened to me, it's not who he is. They're doing everything they can to keep this information secret. That's incredible, I know that's I saw a craft to do that. Thanks to him. Help his stories fills. And the world chain.
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The film uses primarily handmade CGI (90% Blender) with minimal AI (10%) to recreate Bob Lazar's experiences, including de-aging him via 3D scanning.
Lazar confirms the film's accuracy, stating it perfectly matches his memories and even helped him recall forgotten details, evoking strong emotional reactions.
Lazar consistently described the craft's movement since the late 1980s, which later matched U.S. military videos (like "Go Fast"), lending credibility to his story.
He recounts high-security intimidation tactics against him and associates after he went public with his claims.
Lazar describes the compartmentalized, inefficient scientific environment at the facility, which hindered progress by restricting collaboration between specialized teams.
Summary:
The discussion centers on a documentary film that recreates Bob Lazar's alleged experiences at a secret facility using predominantly handmade CGI, with only minimal AI enhancement. Lazar expresses amazement at the film's accuracy, stating it visually extracted details from his memory and even triggered forgotten recollections. S.
military UFO videos appear to show craft maneuvering exactly as he described decades ago. Lazar recounts the severe intimidation he and his associates faced after going public. He also details the frustrating, compartmentalized work environment at the facility, where excessive secrecy between scientific teams—like material scientists and propulsion experts—stifled collaboration and progress, treating the advanced craft with a surprisingly casual, nonchalant attitude over time.
FAQs
The film used about 10% AI and 90% handmade CGI with Blender. This included scanning Bob Lazar's face to create a digital model at different ages, and crafting environments, crafts, and characters manually, with some real actors included.
Bob found the final product mind-blowing, as it felt like it was downloaded from his brain. He described it as teleporting back to that time, and it even brought tears to his eyes due to its accuracy.
Directive one was to duplicate the technology with available materials at any cost, and directive two was to disable this technology at a distance at any cost. This revealed the craft was not of human origin.
Progress was hindered by extreme compartmentalization of information, where different scientific groups could not collaborate. This stifled the free exchange of ideas necessary for scientific advancement.
Bob Lazar believes the craft had been there for a long time, possibly decades, as the staff had become acclimated to it, treating it nonchalantly like another aircraft, indicating familiarity and little recent progress.
He initially thought it was a top-secret human-made fighter with a new propulsion system, which explained UFO sightings. He later learned from Barry that it was actually an alien craft.
Chat with AI
Loading...
Pro features
Go deeper with this episode
Unlock creator-grade tools that turn any transcript into show notes and subtitle files.
PodcastTranscript AI