#2428 - Michael P. Masters

[MUSIC] >> Yeah, disclosure day, very interesting. >> Yeah, I'm excited for it. >> Yeah, he was always like way ahead of the curve when it comes to the whole UAP UFO stuff. You know, with Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he had that French scientist that was essentially modeled after Jacques Delay. He's always been, I would love to talk to him. I wonder how much he knows. >> Is that an accident? Was he fed some information? Was he a part of disclosure the whole time? That's what I've always wondered. >> I mean, what does that mean? Because there hasn't really been disclosure. >> No, but there has to be a slow process, too, right? >> You think so? >> I don't think, I mean, the whole idea is that they're just sort of normalizing it, right? Neural and linguistic programming, they call it, where you're slowly getting people accustomed to these ideas. Like, the aspects of Close Encounters, for instance, where you have the radiation burns on the guy's face, you have a time travel component where these World War II soldiers get out of the craft with the little beans and the bigger bean. And, I mean, just seeding our culture with those little bits of information that might help later on. >> That was, like, in the '70s, wasn't it? Like, when was Close Encounters? >> Yeah, I think it was in the '70s? >> The late '70s, early '80s, maybe. >> Yeah. >> Either way, I mean, like, a lot of stuff he's done. Like, I re-watched the couple with Jeff Bridges, Starman. >> Mm-hmm. >> There's a lot of elements of disclosure in that, too. Like, I think there's just, I don't know. I mean, obviously, we don't know who's pulling the strings. We don't know what's going on. We don't know who's in charge. But it does make sense that if there's this thing that they know about, that we're supposed to know about, leak it out, do it slowly. Get in our culture. Get it in our media in different ways. >> You know the how-put-off story, right, with George Bush? Do you know the story where they were talking about that? Okay. How talked about it on my podcast? But he also talked about it in the age of disclosure, documentary, where they brought in him and a bunch of different prominent thinkers. >> Yeah, watch that episode and a watch The Dockos, too. >> So to people that don't know, I'll just explain it. >> Yeah, so they brought in him and a bunch of other prominent thinkers and they sat them down and said essentially, "We have recovered crashed UFOs. We have biological remains of these creatures. We are considering releasing it to the public and we want to make an assessment of what are the pros and what are the cons. So we want to assign a numerical value that you're estimating what kind of an impact it would be on government, finances, religion, et cetera. >> Well, whether they should do it, basically. >> Right, whether or not they should release this information and all of the people that were brought in came to the agreement that there was more con than there were pro and that formed their decision to not release it. >> And did he say at first, like he was pro disclosure? He was like, "Of course we should do this." And then after the conversation, he switched teams and-- >> Yeah, I don't know about that, maybe perhaps. >> I mean, he said that he went into it thinking, "Well, yeah, obviously we should do this." And then sort of was convinced otherwise after the conversation unfolded. >> Yeah, how could you be convinced? Like whose decision should it be? >> If some people know, everyone should know. >> Essentially, yeah. >> It's a humanity decision. I don't think it should be anybody's hands to decide whether or not this information gets distributed. >> And the implications, too, if they have zero point energy, like I would that solve the problems that we face today. There's so many ramifications of it that, yeah. Whose decision is it and why has it been kept from us? I don't buy that whole, like, Orson Welles, 1938, everybody freak out, bullshit. I don't think that's the case, at least not anymore. There's gotta be something more to it than that. >> It would certainly have, I don't know if they factor the sin, but a uniting element. Like, you remember the Reagan speech, we came in front of the United Nations, where we said, imagine how united we would be, would forget our differences if we were faced with an alien threat from another world. I mean, just knowing that we are all, I mean, how old are you? >> 47. >> Okay, so you remember September 11th. One of the things that happened after September 11th was it was a horrible tragedy, but there was a beautiful result temporarily, because we're not really united. Like, really united. Like, there's American flags, and everybody's car in Los Angeles. You know, like, the most ridiculous, progressive, sort of kind of, you know, kind of fucked up place. But everybody became patriotic. And in New York, everyone was friendly. I mean, people were smiling and saying, hi to each other on the streets. We had all decided that we were together, and that we were faced with a real threat, and that we had to be united. >> I remember it well. >> Yeah, you're right. And not to get too weird too fast here, but if there are aspects of sort of an all-encompassing consciousness that unites us associated with UFO phenomenon too, if we recognize that we are just fingerprints on the same hand, or all iterations of the same over arching consciousness, if seemingly there is a part of that in the UFO phenomenon. >> Yeah. >> So how would that unite us as well, even beyond the threat from outside? Like if we did start to understand that we're all part of the same sort of cosmic community. Sounds kind of weird to say that. >> It does sound weird, but have you seen the Apple Show pluribus? >> No, it comes up a lot, the worth watching? >> It's really good. >> Yeah. >> It's really good. It's very, very original, very unique. But that is essentially what happens, and it has a negative aspect to it. There's a virus. I don't want to give away too much of it for people that want to watch the show, because it's a really good show. But there's a virus that they get a signal from another world, and they figure out what this signal is, and through this lab work, they reveal that this signal is some sort of the encoding of a specific virus. They work on this specific virus, it spreads, and the entire planet becomes one consciousness, except for a small number of people. >> Interesting. >> It's a weird show. It's a really good show. >> I'm going to explain any more of it like that, without any spoiler alerts, but it's fucking great. But it's strange. It's like, wouldn't that be better? There's no crime. There's no this. But then it reveals all the problems that come along with that. >> Yeah. I'm going to have to watch that as a counterpoint if anything else, because it makes sense to me that everyone's kind of united as one, a super organism of sorts, but you lose all individuality. You lose all the fun parts about being an imperfect person, because we are an imperfect species, but that's also what makes great art. That's what makes great music. That's what makes great fun. >> Most creative people have the most trauma in their past from what I've seen. >> And if you have zero trauma, you probably have sucky art. >> Just stick figures and shit. I mean, I wonder why they would even have a need for it. >> It's because it's expression. It's getting your anger out. >> Right. >> Or your angst, or your anxiety, or depression, whatever it is. You're getting something out. >> I was telling my son not the other day, obviously, his name. It's hard being in these bodies, especially going through puberty. You know, you're just like, "What is this thing I'm carrying, this little meat suit?" And I was like, "Man, I was the same way. I still am the same way." And I picked up instruments. I started painting. I'd learned to play every sport. I could physically play. Like, there's ways to get that out, you know? But it seems like a lot of that does come from just the anxiety and the angst. >> Sure. >> And, you know, you're growing into yourself. You're starting to get the feels. You know, you look at women differently. It's like, "What do I do with this?" >> Well, it retranges. It rewires the entire way you view the world. And meanwhile, your body is physically changing and growing. You're like, "What am I going to look like eventually? This is weird." It's so weird. You know, there's actually this, in a small island in the Pacific. They have this weird characteristic where they start out as females. Everybody does. We all start out as females and you grow. And then, mailness is imposed on the developing fetus. But they don't until puberty. Because they're not sensitive to dihydrotestosterone. The precursor to testosterone. So they grow up their entire life as girls. And then at puberty, they turn into a boy. >> So they get raised as girls? >> They are girls. >> But they have girls. >> Not yet. >> What? >> This is a planet? >> I mean, this is an island. >> It's an island in the South Pacific. It's called pseudo-hermaphroditism. >> What? >> I know I learned about this in grad school. >> So what do they look like? >> They look like girls. >> What? >> Exactly like girls. They are girls. And then the ovaries descend as testicles. And the clitoris grows out into a penis. >> Wow. >> So you think puberty is starting off already. These people turn into the opposite sex. It aged like 12 or 13. It's wild, man. >> So is this a bizarre genetic anomaly? Is this something to do with that? >> Yes. >> A lot of times on islands, you get really strange characteristics of people because of the isolation. And those characteristics get selected just through genetic drift alone. So it's a small population. So just probably one person had this really weird trait where they're insensitive to dihydrotestosterone. And then it spread throughout more of the population. >> Wow. >> It doesn't do anything. It's not something natural selection would select against. It's just weird as shit. What is the name of this island? >> I don't remember the name of the island. But the condition is called-- >> Find it? >> I think it's Molo Island and Vanado. >> Oh, yeah, Vanado. >> How many people were on that island? >> This says there's a population in 1979 of 2,300 people. >> Yeah. >> And think historically. >> There's two different kinds of people there. >> There's two different kinds of people. >> Two cultural groups. >> Isn't that wild, though, man? I remember hearing about that in grad school at Ohio State. And I was just like, I'm sorry, what? >> It was so strange. I'm sure you've seen those people, the ostrich feet people in Africa. It's a very strange genetic anomaly where they don't grow toes. They essentially have two very wide appendages. >> Weird. >> Yeah, it looks like a weird bird foot. It's very strange. But a bunch of people in this particular tribe share this trait. >> Is there any advantage? It's just like this where just kind of happened. >> Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I don't know what advantage there would be. >> Maybe it's really sexy to them. >> Maybe you could move better with it. >> I don't know. That's what they look like. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. >> I don't know how I haven't seen that. That's wild. >> No, I'm not crazy. >> I mean, it is kind of sexy. >> If that's what you're into, dog. >> I wonder how long it's been going on for. >> Vodoma. >> See, that seems like more of a defect that just worked toward fixity in the population. >> Well, it just makes you wonder. Why don't we, it's in Zimbabwe, apparently. Why don't we all have that? What is the reason why we have all these toes that it's called electro-dactyl. >> Yeah. >> Electro-dactyl. >> I mean, historically, pre-astorically, evolutionarily, I should say, if you did have something like that and you were hunter-gatherer, you're kind of boned. You're not going to be able to run after gazelles. >> I don't know, maybe you can. >> Is their feet are well adapted to the Zimbabwe? Oh, Zimbazi, not Zimbabwe. Zimbazi, valleys, rough terrain, allowing them to move quickly and efficiently through the landscape. >> All right, I'd take it back. >> What kind of makes sense, right? Because what it's saying is that their bones are fused. If you scroll up, it'll say, the condition of affecting a ostrich-footed tribe, a genetic mutation passed down through generations, causes the bones and the feet to fuse, resulting in a claw-like structure with two large toes. Toes are very vulnerable. I don't know if you ever have broken a toe. >> I broke one an hour before I got on the plane to come here. >> Really? >> If you could see my left foot. >> Oh, that's hilarious. >> That's ridiculous. The whole thing is just purple. >> Yeah, they're so small. >> Yeah. >> My pinky toe, I was messing around with my pinky toe the other day because I have to trim my toenails, right? And the pinky toe is like barely a nail. It's so tiny. And I'm like, kind of, this little thing is so vulnerable and it has to support my entire body weight or part of my entire body weight. >> Yeah, they're so dumb. >> Oh, yeah. >> You can see that. >> Your foot's jacked. >> Yeah, that was like right before I was coming down. I'm like, "You're cheating me." >> That's awesome. >> Yeah, I've broken a bunch of toes. It's very, very annoying. >> It's so annoying. >> And you would imagine if you had two giant fucking elbow bones down there instead of these bitchy-ass little toesies. >> Oh, maybe that's why they did it. Maybe that's what they got going on. >> Kind of makes sense that that would be an adaptation. >> Invincible feet. >> Yeah. Well, you know, we're so vulnerable. And that's one of the weirder things. So first we should get into what you do. Because you have a very interesting theory. Tell everybody what your background is, first of all. >> Yeah, all right. That does seem like a good place to start. My background is in anthropology and biological anthropology. My research mostly focuses on evolutionary anatomy. Biomedicine of Densomarkiology. Various places around the world in Montana. But the reason I'm here, I assume. Because according to my friend Matt, we were butchering on a mule deer, I think, a shot. And I was like, "Yeah, I got to go to this conference." And I was like, "Do you want to know what it's about?" He's like, "Nobody gives a shit about what you do other than you oppose me." I was like, "Damn it, he's right." You guys did actually use to do a lot of what I thought was cool stuff. But no, the main thing is that I've become known for advocating for this idea that UFOs and the aliens are actually are time traveling, future human descendants. I wouldn't even say as opposed to extraterrestrials because I do think that's a component too. Oftentimes, get pigeonholed people are like, "Oh, you just think they're all time travelers." I don't. I actually say this all the time, but it doesn't matter. I do think there's a lot going on, but my background and the reason I approach this question this way is because there's a lot of characteristics of these aliens that look so hominin. They look just like us. And specifically what we'd expect to see in our hominin future if the same evolutionary trends continue into the future. So I kind of just tie those things together. And even the saucer-shaped craft seemingly or time machines themselves. So it's kind of the cliff notes version. Well, it's a theory that a lot of people have independently sort of come to, right? Especially recently. And the concept of, well, just if you just think about ancient man, I was watching this documentary on Neanderthal's last night about this one intact Neanderthal skeleton that they found that it had sort of been, he had died in a cave and the stalagmites, stalactites were mites. How do you say it? Tites are up mites are down. So he was essentially mineralized. There was stuff all over the body and it took a long time for them to break this body. I guess all that was on Netflix. No, I was watching it on YouTube, maybe originally on Netflix. But it was just documenting how strange this body was that they had found, but it was immensely strong, like much stronger than us. One of the interesting things was that their visual cortex the part of the brain that would process imagery was larger than ours, 10% to 20% larger. So these things probably had better eyesight than us. Perhaps even we're able to see it at night, and that this was a bigger, stronger version of a human being, like much more durable than what we are, modern 2025 homosapiens. If you just look, yeah, that's it. So that's one of them. It's either human or an end at all. Oh, really? This is a published one. Is this the same one? This might not be the same one. This is maybe a different one. That's a weird one because what's that fucking thing on its head? That's what it says. It's a lactite growing out of it or something. Wow. In a weird form. Weird. It's like a unicorn. Yeah, like a crest. They do have a sagittal ridge. Yes. Homo erectus had one. Well, there's an offshoot in our hominin lineage called the paranthropus or robust australopethicines, and they had a full-on, like, guerrilla style. Really? Sagittal ridge. Yes, they were vegetarians. They just chewed all day. Right, so they had massive muscles to chew. Yeah, their whole face is huge. Wow. Neanderthals kind of, I mean, they were just big. Yeah. It's just a robustisticity thing. But there is evidence from Shenadar Cave in Iraq, where they were using their teeth as tools. We think they were, like, tanning hides. They were holding the hide in their mouth and then, like, scraping all the nasty bits off. Oh. And you can see that in the tooth wear. So, yeah, they were pretty bad-ass. They were the first, I don't know. I think this is cool, but a lot of people think I'm a nerd too. They were the first to use the flake. Like, for 2.8 million years, we just hit a piece of rock and, like, all of this cool tool. But then, they figured out that if you hit the rock in just the right way, the piece that falls off, makes an even better tool. It still goes, like, 2.5 million years. Yes. Exactly. And from that point on, like, I got to work at a place called Shapino Jean-Zac in Southern France for a summer. And it was in Neanderthals site. And we found these, actually, it's pretty funny, because when we first got there, these tools called MTA Handaxes, Moisturian, it was Schulian Tradition Handaxes. And they were only eight found in all of Europe. And they said, "If you guys find one of these, we'll buy you all the beer and all the cognac you can drink." So we're in the cognac region of France. And we found one, like, the 4th or 5th day. We went on to find seven more over the course of that week. We doubled the number of these things in existence in all of Europe. And they were not lying. They bought us so many damn beers. The gargiala just liked to drink. We dig and it's boring as hell. It's not Indiana Jones, we're not running around banging hot chicks and flying on planes. We got a spoon, and we're doing this for eight hours. So, yeah, I actually found the last one on the last day, and it was by far the worst one. Like, I had to argue that this should even count as one of these. But, yeah, it was a cool sight. So, yeah, they were doing well, but we were doing better. We came in and replaced them. Well, something happened where we replaced them. But this is an ad for BetterHelp. The holidays come with a lot of traditions, gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes, and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together. That's something I always look forward to. But there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays. And that's taking some time for ourselves. This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life. You plan to get together around everyone's schedule. You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food. But you also deserve just as much attention. Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out. So, do yourself a favor and take some me time. Go on a hunting trip. Have a quiet night with a book. Maybe even schedule a session with a therapist. Therapy is an extremely effective way to make sure you're focusing on what you need. And BetterHelp can easily set you up. They have access to a wide network of fully qualified therapists, and they do a lot of the work for you. Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off at betterhelp.com/jre. That's better. The point is, as time goes on, humans today are probably the most feeble version of humans that have ever existed. And we're with the most feeble versions of people that have existed within the last century. If you go back to humans from the 1920s versus humans from the 2020s, people have way less testosterone now, way or higher instances of miscarriages, way lower sperm count. You know, there's a lot of factors that are at play right now that are changing what a human is. And if you extrapolate, if you look at the future, you would naturally say, "Well, we're probably going to be very thin." It seems like there's at least some sort of a push to eliminate gender. Like, gender seems like it's on the table as whether or not it's even necessary. There's all sorts of new technological innovations that are leading to the possibility, at least sometime in the future, of an artificial womb. There's genetic engineering with CRISPR and a lot of other different technologies that are being explored that we might be able to engineer human beings and then even create a complete individual human being without a mother, without a father. So, if you thought about what that looks like in the future, one of our problems in this planet is we all have different ideologies, different religions, come from different parts of the world. We look different. And human beings as tribal primates have a tendency to other. We other different tribes. Those are not us. We are us. Those are the enemy. But if everybody is exactly the same and we share one mind, then a lot of our problems go away. If we no longer have to compete for resources, we no longer have the desire to procreate and to acquire land and to have a territory, we eliminate a lot of our issues. And that's what these things look like. When you look at the archetypal, these iconic sort of shapes that have been on cave walls all the way up to close encounters with the third kind, one thing they share is that they have no muscle. They have large heads. They have big eyes. And they childlike. They're really pedomorphic, as we say. Yeah, you just tied together a lot of really important points related to this theory, aspects of why they're always interested in our gametes, why they come back and put that little machine on a man to collect semen, why they're constantly taking eggs from females and planting fetuses, pulling them back out later. They're clearly focused on reproduction, gamete extraction. And one of the things that might be fueling that in the future, if these are future humans, let's just assume for a second hypothetically, is that they might be having problems directly resulting from these trends toward self-domestication, these trends toward feminization, these trends toward reduced sperm counts, which is 60% across most populations of the world, the industrialized world, 50% across the entire world. Yeah, problems with reproduction and vitro fertilization, exogenesis chambers might help solve some of those problems, growing the fetus outside of the body. So yeah, and like you said, what do they look like? They look like kind of a hybrid between males and females to some extent. But there's still an essence of gender. Like if you talk to Willie Streiber, he's with this bean, he says in communion that I had a sense that she was a woman. I don't know why, but it kind of sensed that. So it's almost like the essence of the individual, the soul of the individual still retains that sort of gender identity, even though our bodies are becoming more childlike, more gender indiscriminate. I don't know, but yeah, yet another one of those ways in which we might sort of grow together as a species. Now when you say they are extracting sperm, how many of these stories do you take seriously? There's a lot of these stories. It's a great question, yeah. Unfortunately for any sort of spectacular, public thing that's in the zeitgeist, like alien abduction, whether it's Whitley Streiber from communion or the John Mac books, the guy from Harvard that wrote, what was that abduction? Passport to the cosmos and abduction, yeah. Two great books. Great books, but these are all books about encounters. Close encounters of the third time was some sort of a being from another place. Whatever it is, it's just not a human being. And it seems to be technologically superior to us. It seems to be one thing they all seem to share as they seem to be able to communicate telekinetically or telepathically. Yeah, and I mean they aren't human, but they are very human too. So for instance, that's one of the main reasons I started exploring this. I was actually kind of put into this when I was eight or nine years old, sort of activated in a way and put on this path by a weird thing that happened to me. What happened to you? Well, so I talk about it in my first two books, identified flying objects and the extra tempestro model, where I learned about a close encounter that my dad had. He was a veterinarian in Northeast Ohio where I grew up. And he was out one night on a call with another guy. So there's two people, as far as jail and ionics, reliability skill. It has more reliability because there's multiple witnesses. It's also strange on a scale because they crested the hill. There's a bright light. This is an amish country. There's no lights, an amish country. And all of a sudden this bright light darts toward them. Hover's just above their truck. Darts back to where it was and straight up into space. Like an incredible speed. So this happened before. It's born, but I overheard him telling the story to some friends one night. He got Whitley Strieber's book, Communion, as most people did in the 1980s. And as they should because it's a great book. And I walked into the living room. The book is sitting on the shelf facing out. And I remember like it was yesterday. I sort of stopped. And there was like this light, like a white light. And then I saw this image in my mind of like an early homin and chimpanzee-like creature, a modern human and then that archetypal gray alien from the cover, with this information, what if they're related? What if they are us from the future? And obviously, I mean, that's why I became a biological anthropologist. People are always like, so-- See, you saw this? Yeah. It was like a flash, like a light. And you know, it's weird looking back on it because I know a lot more about these experiences. I've talked to people that have had these types of experiences. What was the setting? It was our living room. So it was like the, you come in the front door and just to the left, there's this living room. Building a bookshelf with these books right there. I just turned the corner, saw it, and then like, just kind of, they just came. Like I didn't know shit about evolutionary biology. What did you say he saw? He just saw it in my mind. Just this white light. Just an image. And there was that image of the three faces. And then the question, could they be us from the future? And a lot of people are like, how did you get into UFOs? Like you're a biological anthropologist. It's the opposite. I got into biological anthropology to research this question of whether they could be us from the future. So this, you felt like at that moment it wasn't just like a weird thought or a dream. It felt like a message. Like what did it feel like? Yeah. Yeah. It was some, it was a tasking. You know, I think, I think Rupert Sheldrick said it that people don't have ideas. Ideas of people. I think that was like the, hey, go do this thing. And I did, that's why we're here now talking about it. And obviously, you know, you got to be careful about like selection bias and confirmation bias. Like I didn't go into this. I didn't go into grad school. I also didn't tell anybody in grad school. I was there because they would have kicked me out. But I went into it with an open mind. But I was there to study these things because of that event when I was eight years old. Wow. Yeah, it's, it is a problem. The confirmation bias. It is a problem with wanting it to be real. And I struggle with that because I desperately want it to be real. And so every time I talk to someone, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people that are, you know, air quote, whistleblowers. And some of them, I think, for sure, have been sent in here to distribute this information. Yeah, no doubt. For sure. Because it's a great place to do it. Yeah. I'll listen to you. I'll entertain almost anything, which is great. We need that. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, obviously, there's people that are going to take advantage of it. But I think it's also important for me to say, I'm not convinced. I, you know, I don't know how much of this is horseshit. But it's not zero. No. And that was your question is, how do I differentiate among these different cases? I do draw from Heinex in his book, The UFO Experience. How we all should approach this based on the reliability scale and the strangeness scale. Jacques Vallet also drew from that optimum development. It's part of the Invisible College and all of his work. But regardless of like my own personal discernment. It's my second book, The Extra Tempesture Model, is about 30 case studies, 15 main case studies, but then I pull in other ones. And it explores the different theories. Obviously, the main one being this Extra Tempesture idea, this future. Which, by the way, I saw the word of the day today was anachronistic. And I was like, man, that would have been a way better word than Extra Tempesture, which everybody struggles with. I could have called them anachronauts. Oh. Doesn't that sound cool? Anachronauts. Ooh, that sounds really cool. I know. What the hell is I thinking, man? Well, anyway. But so one of the most commonly reported things across all cases, regardless of what you think it's bullshit, or you think this definitely happened, is they really want our sperm. They really need or want our reproductive material or gametes. And it's funny, because when I wrote my first book in 2012, published it in 2019, right at the end, I did an interview, and someone was like, have you heard of Jim Peniston? I'm like, no. Which is kind of a failing on my BF. I'll admit that one. It turns out, so it was the Rendlesham Forest incident. He touched this craft. He got this binary code. And he, when deciphering the binary code, they legitimately specifically said, we are you from the future. We're having problems with reproduction. He underwent hypnotic regression. And we need this genetic material to help ourselves. And a lot of people were like, well, why are they coming back and doing stuff to us? I think they're coming back and getting stuff from us. Because of problems they're having, larger related to what you were talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts, the problem with female infertility, what if we do try to create the perfect human specimen? Or we try to cure these genetic diseases through genetic manipulation, CRISPR, and we screw something up. We might have to come back. But we can't go to another planet. There aren't people on these planets. We can't go and sample gametes from these other places. We might have to go into our past to get those wild-type unmanipulated gametes in order to fix these problems. Yeah, that's a crazy level of technological sophistication, the ability to venture back in time. And somehow another not fuck up the timeline that's leading to. I mean, this is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel. Anything that you do, if you went back in time, any interactions, you would completely change how the future would play out. In the many worlds interpretations. Yeah. So that idea is unfortunately very pervasive and mostly because of back to the future, which I think grew into the brains of most people. Might do. Certainly in my generation. But what most. Physicists don't agree on many things. But most agree that we live in what's called a block universe, landscape time, block time, where if you imagine all moments from the very beginning of the big bang to the end of the universe where all matter disappears into like a black hole or contracts or whatever it does, all moments are already there. They exist as this massive four-dimensional block of all moments, all whirlwinds, everything. So you go back into the past as you perceive it. You can do whatever you want. You can walk around, step on butterflies, you know, slap people on the face, kick over, you know, dinosaurs or whatever. I don't think we can go back that far. But you could do anything you want. And it doesn't change anything because you're going back in the block universe and doing those things you were always already going to do. And when you get home, everything's the same because that was already there past. Everybody that stayed behind, that was already there past. It was only the future for you to go back and do those things that you were already going to do. And then you just went and did them, get home. Everything's the same because you were always going to do those things in the first place. That's bizarre. That's hard. And if that is the actual model of the universe. And again, I can only work in writing these books. I can only work from what we know now. Clearly there's a lot of things we don't know. I'm not claiming to know anything beyond what we can know right now. But physicists, despite not knowing what time is, they know it's an emergent phenomenon. There's something more fundamental that time comes from. But they do agree on this block universe model. And in that case, there is no paradox. How do they all agree on that? Like, wouldn't you have to test that and come up with some sort of a hypothesis and then try to prove it or disprove it? I shouldn't say they all agree. Because there is the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Where if you went back, in that situation, it would be change. You would be changing the timeline. Would it be changing your timeline? Or would it be changing a different timeline as the question? And how would you know? There's more paradoxes with changing things than not changing things. Why did you confidently state that you don't think that they can go back to the dinosaur age? Um, partly because three different reasons. One, I think they need tremendously high speed in order to be able to go back into the past. So basically, again, working from all I can work from in this time with the limited primitive primate knowledge that I have in the year 2012 to 2025. I basically just started with Einstein's theory of relativity, which he published in 1905 on the electrodynamics of moving bodies. And then in 1915, he published his paper on general relativity. From that point on, almost instantly, there were solutions to his field equations that showed with the right parameters of a massively highly energetic rotating ring or sphere or disk that you could create close-time light curves. That you could actually orient light cones back toward the past, so you can physically go into the past. We saw this with lens in Therin in like 1917 and 18. Kirkrodell. Gaudell Universe was not long after I think the 20s maybe. And then importantly, in 1970s, you had Frank Tippler, who showed mathematically that you can shrink that down to a disk. He actually called it a disk. And it's one of the reasons I think that these are time machines is because it has all of the parameters described by Frank Tippler. He wasn't talking about UFOs, but they seemingly have the ability to jump in and out of time. They appear and disappear. And I'm talking too much. I'll wrap this up in a second. But you're definitely not talking too much. Well, I mean, we're here to talk, but I have an internal trigger where I'm like, shout out masters, we're talking too much. They'll listen to that trigger, let it roll. So anyway, you know, if you look at the history of how we understand backward time travel, what I think they're doing is that I think they're combining general relativity and special relativity. So I think they're orienting the light cones toward the past by rotating these things really, really fast. You hear that all the time. They power up, they're spinning, or at least there's some sort of flywheel on the outside that's spinning. I think that's what's allowing them to move toward the past. And then they take off. So it's that high speed that I think allows them to go further into the past. So they're using, you're aware of the twins paradox, I'm sure. Time deletion where you have two twins, they're the same age. And then one goes into a spaceship, they move it tremendously high speed. They come back and they're much younger than their twin because time move faster back on Earth. I think they're using that high speed motion while light cones are orient toward the past in order to travel deeper into the past through that process of time deletion. There are limits to how fast we can go. Einstein was very adamant about this because there's an increase in inertial forces the faster you go relative to the speed of light. That's why I thought we could never go. That's why he thought that anything with mass could never go faster than the speed of light. Light can do it because it's a wave or a particle or both. So I think there's a limit to how fast we can go. The other reason is because Jim Peniston in this hypnotic regression said that. He's like, we can only go 40 to 60,000 years into the past or we might not get back. You also have, and this is a more speculative one. So take it for what it's worth. You also have the Dan Burish testimony of this J-Rod, this allegedly captured alien, who said we're from the future. We are you from the future, and we're from about 55 to 60,000 years in your future. So those three things together are why I don't think we could go back 65 million years to hunt dinosaurs, which actually would be kind of fun. When you, when talking about going the speed of light, you're talking about not traditional propulsion, but some form of propulsion that allows you to go at insane speeds. Yeah, electromagnetic is what it seems to be. And importantly, the electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40 times more powerful in gravity. So not only do I think that's what they used to fly, I think that's what they used to manipulate space-time. Actually, and Dan Burish is not Dan Burish. Dan Ferra, I think you just had him on to the age of disclosure. There's this really cool thing at the end where how put off, and I think Eric Davis as well, we're talking about the space-time bubble, right? A really weird thing happened when we get to that in a second, but I don't want to jump around too much because I'll lose people in myself probably. But this space-time bubble that they form around the craft, I think is also indicative of the fact that they're manipulating space-time, that they're traveling in and out of time. They use it to hide in plain sight. They manipulate the rate at which they move relative to us in their frame of reference and they're moving fast all around us, and they've slowed time down outside of that bubble. So everything is really, really slow to them, and they can easily evade our bullets and our missiles. But we don't see them because we don't have that frame rate of perception. And if you slow videos down, I'm sure you've seen these all the time, where there's like a. And you slow it down, and you can see this saucer-shaped craft moving slowly across the sky once you slow it down the frame rate. But a really funny thing happened because I've never actually talked about this with anyone before. I owe a lot of the fact that anybody even knows who I am to help put off. When I first started talking about this publicly in 2018, and then I published my book in 2019, identified flying objects, he, I guess, reached out to the head of Mufon at the time, who was putting together the 50th anniversary Mufon event, and was like, "Hey, you should have this McMaster's guy come talk." And I found that out from the head of Mufon. He's like, "Hey, just so you know how put off of all people recommended I contact you." And no idea that is, so I get on the internet and I Google how put off. He also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend, in touch with me after I think he did an interview with him in Weinstein. I forget his name. Eric? Yeah, yeah. So he did an interview with those two. I guess how it was like, "Hey, you should have reached out to McMaster's, and he did, and we talked, and we've done stuff together." But what was cool is that at the end of that age of disclosure film, when he's talking about this space-time bubble, I thought back to after my first book came out, and I was contacted by someone who claimed to be an ex-intelligence person, who explained that exact same thing to me back in 2019, that these things aren't doing 10,000 G maneuvers that would crush anything inside to them. And their frame of reference, what they feel, is completely different than what we see. Because in that space-time bubble, they can be moving at 50,000 miles an hour to a right hand turn, and it would splatter anything inside because of the G forces. That's what we see on the outside, but in that space-time bubble, they probably feel one, two Gs at the most. So I started thinking, "Man, was that how? Did how reach out to me with a different email address and say, "Hey, just so you know, this is how these things are happening, this is how they're able to do it?" And I was a dumbass, I still am a dumbass, but I was an extra big dumbass back then, and I was like, "Oh, cool, thanks, man." Like a story went viral about my books, and Fox News picked it up, and space.com. And so I was going through a bunch of emails. They recognized I wasn't getting what they were saying, I was not picking up what they were putting down. And they were like, "No, this is important. Set it again, and then it clicked." I was like, "Oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense." They were manipulating the rate at which time passes in this bubble around the craft, and we see something completely different. And we're seeing this, we're imagining what we can do, and we're sort of saying, "Well, what would be an advanced version of what we can do?" And what this technology is, is something that's levels of magnitude beyond even our theoretical, like any sort of idea that we have currently about, you know, potential future timelines of technology. And there's no one talking about gravity bubbles that allow you to instantaneously traverse immense gaps in the universe. Well, they might be talking about it by enclosed doors at right-patterned, snare-fort space. Right. And have been for 70 years. Yeah, that's the real problem with disclosure. Like, how much progress could we have made if they had opened up all this stuff? And you got to imagine if you were an intelligent life form from another planet, you know, Diana Pasolka talked about her and Gary Nolan talked about how they refer to some of these things as donations. They don't think of them as crashed vehicles, because some of them are not crashed. They're completely intact. I think David Grush said that, too, didn't he? Yeah, I believe he did. And even, you know, Lazar, when he was talking about it, you know, he had a sports model. Wasn't that fully intact, too? Fully intact, yeah. Fully intact in operational, and apparently it flew it around. No kid. That'd be fun. Well, that was one of the reasons, you know, the whole story, how he got caught. It's a really crazy story. So he used to work at Los Alamos. He was a propulsion expert. Guy put a jet engine on the back of a Honda. It was a real freak. You know, he made a hydrogen Corvette, like the 1990s. He was nutty, dude. Clearly an engineer. Yes, that part checks out. So he guessed his job on Area S4 and goes there, and it's all documented in Jeremy Corbell's excellent movie, Bob Lazar, Area 51 and Flying Saucers. So he goes there and sees this thing, and it's got an American flag sticker on it. And, you know, they basically say, tell us how it works. And he's like, oh, this is ours, because he sees it has a sticker on it. And then he realizes, this is made out of some completely unknown alloy. There's no seams in it. It seems to be 3D printed. There's no controls inside of it. It's designed for something that's three feet tall. It's all very fucking weird. So he's working on this thing, not making much headway at all. They understood that there was an element, element 115, that was not even on the periodic table. Eventually found to actually be a thing by the Large Hadron Collider, but even then they only measured it for a millisecond, right? So then he's saying that they have this stable version of this element, and you embark it with radiation and creates this sort of gravity drive. He's working on this thing, and it's all top secrets. We cannot tell his wife. So they're calling him up at 10 o'clock like, hey, get to the airport. We need you. And so he would have to fly out at random times, fly out to S4, and his wife was like, this motherfucker's having to fare. Well, I'm going to have an affair too. So she starts fucking her flight instructor. I think that's what it was. When you have that kind of clearance, they are monitoring everything. They're monitoring all your phone calls. So they've realized that his wife is having an affair, and they think that he will be emotionally unstable and it's too dangerous to have him working on this insanely top secret information if he's not stable. So they tell him, you know, we're going to at least temporarily relieve you of your duties. So he's freaked out, and he tells his friends like, hey, this is what they're doing there. They have these things, and they fly them every Wednesday. I'm going to take you guys. There's an area we can go watch. So they take his friends out there on two separate occasions, I believe. They get caught. They get caught, gets arrested. They release him, and he realizes like, I'm kind of fucked. They might kill me. I'm going to have to go public with this. Contacts George NAP. I did see that. Then the whole thing is history. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's wild, man. And I think, and it's still happening. You know, there's still these whistleblowers. He says they used to fly them, and you could go watch them fly these things, and they were moving in these really weird ways across the sky that you cannot do with conventional aircraft. That they only sort of understood how to like pick it up and put it down. They didn't understand how to like really. That was out at Droom Lake, right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember as a kid. I've been obviously been in this for a long time. I remember as a kid seeing videos of people going out, and then they eventually closed it down. You couldn't get to that spot. But there was like -- That was during the Obama administration. During the Obama administration, they actually had to admit that area 51 was real. Because before that, no one even knew it was real. I mean, there was always just a joke. Like, area 51 was like for fun. But then they said, no, it is real. And we need to expand the forbidden boundary. Yeah. And isn't that when people were going to like bum rush it to? Is that when that happened? That was during COVID. During COVID, there was a bunch of dorks that were like, we're going to crush area 51. That's a good way to die. They'll fucking kill you. Hey, natural selection. Yeah, they're working on a lot of stuff out there. And some of it is weapons. Right. They can't have you internet dorks from Reddit just running out into area 51. Yeah, I think they eventually realized that. So I don't think they went out there. But I could have been bad. I think it was all bullshit. They were going to do engagement farming. Yeah, man, there's a lot of crazy shit that's been going on. It's been going on for a while. Jamie and I were talking before and about the stove piping, too. And all the stove piping. Yeah, the different ways that they compartmentalize what they're doing. And they talked about it in age of disclosure, too. That's a big problem because certain people are working on these parts of the craft. They have to reverse engineer them to understand them, but they don't have the whole picture. Lazar was talking about that from the 1980s. Yeah. In 1989, he said the people that are working on metallurgy were not in contact with the people that are working on propulsion. And he's like, science cannot operate like that. Yeah, no, it can't because you need to know what's going on beyond just this little part that you're working on. And if you have a bunch of people that are sharing information, you get a much more comprehensive understanding of what this thing is. Yeah, we all benefit from communication because there could be something involved in the actual structure of it that lends to its ability to do something. It might not be simply just structure. It might be structure with some sort of an ability. Yeah, you can't see the forest through the trees in these situations. And it's unfortunate. And what the argument they made in this, this docho is that we're putting ourselves a disadvantage because other countries are probably retrieved these things too. And they might be working on yes and secrecy, but if people are working together and not stovepiping this thing, add infinitum, then they might be able to actually make more progress faster than us. So part of the disclosure of push is to be like, yeah, these things are real. We have them. We have to get our best scientists together to work on this holistically instead of compartmentalizing it. Which is imagine if they had done that from 1947 where we would be. Exactly. If that's real. If Roswell was real, if the crash was real, Philip Drake Corso's correct, and all these people are telling the truth. I know. And we still have to preface these things with if it's real. Yeah. And yeah, I do the same thing. I mean, coming from academia, when I wrote my first book, I had to be like, if this is real. It's hard. It's this paradox of sorts because how do you rate to explain something that isn't real? What's the point of even doing that? So I think we have to assume. I'm actually teaching a class at Montana Tech this spring called UFOs History and Science. Oh, I would take that if I was in school. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. I know. I'm pretty stoked about it. I had these artists design a poster in a Norway in the UK and just crazy. I was like, how conservative should I be with this? Just a UFO. And I gave them total artistic freedom. And there's like an alien holding the earth and the UFOs swinging around. I'm like, I guess that's what I'm doing. Plastered all over campus to recruit people to take the class. But like, I'm going in on day one. We're not we're not going to fuck around with like, are these things real? We're not going to waste time on that. We're going to jump in. These are real. Here's what we're doing. This is what we know. This is what we don't know. Explore the theory. Explore the history. Explore the prehistory. Because it's it's a waste of time. Like these think these things are real. You think they're real. What makes you convinced? I have read enough accounts in researching this and from people that I know, I mean starting from when I was a kid hearing my biological father's account, you know, the way he told it. And then I interviewed him again in college to try to get more information because I was just over hearing from the stairs when I was supposed to be in bed. He saw what he saw. And then eventually I saw some UFOs. What did you say? I was kind of pissed actually because I was start talking about this in 2018 and people were always like, you ever seen UFO? No, never seen UFO like to. And then finally in 2022, it might have been late 2021. I don't remember exactly when it was kind of warm-ish. So it was probably 2021. But I was everybody's in bed at my house. I live in a canyon and I was having a whiskey and I was like, I just walked up the canyon wall for some reason, like the hill behind my house. I don't really know why. I turned around and I could see these five super bright lights over what's known as the Eastridge and but Montana. They're just like sitting there right over the Eastridge. I was like, well, that's not normal. Those aren't usually there. And they weren't stars. You know, they're way too big, way too close. I would say they were probably within eight to five to eight miles. You know, they they were in the distance, but they were like there. And then I just kind of looked at them for a second. Oh, that's weird. And then one by one from right to left, they just one shot off toward the southeast at like crazy speed. You know, like the kind of like in in Star Wars or Star Trek, hyper drive and that little light trail, like just one by one until they were all gone. But I have no conventional explanation for that. Wow. But I've never been one of those people that's like I need to see it to believe it because I believe the people who say the same thing over and over. There's patterns that we can extract from people's testaments who have had these close encounters. And that's one unfortunate thing that's happening right now is we're talking about the pilots, talking about police. But people have been seeing these forever, but they did such a good job manufacturing the stigma around it with project sign project grudge project blue book that this counties people to make them seen insane. You know, that is one of the main points of evidence that I would point to that there is something when people think there isn't something. I'm so you should really pay attention to what they were trying to do during project book. Yeah, because one of them I have a buddy mind my friend Steve Graham shout out to Steve when he was a boy. He was living in New York upstate New York and he filmed this red orb that was flying across the sky. And he took some photographs of it and they called someone some officials somewhere. I don't remember he was who was very young. And they said we're going to analyze the photos and then we'll bring them back to you. And they never return the photographs when he called he said no agents. There's no record of any agents coming to visit you. We don't know what to tell you. So they just took his photos and that was it. But he said whatever it was, you know, he was young. I believe he was 10 or 11 and he said whatever it was was really weird. He goes it was this red orb that was flying through the sky was a spacecraft. It wasn't a sun. It wasn't a meteor. It looked like it was moving purposely and under control. And it was there long enough for him to take Polaroid of it. Yeah. And they just completely erased any memory of it or any any evidence of it when he called. Like I said, they said no agents visited you. Whatever the agents name or there's no agents by that name. That's kind of the status quo. But they try to make you look like fool. Absolutely. And that was intentional. Like the state admission of project Grudge was to debunk these things come up with conventional explanations and make people seem like idiots. Right. Not science to investigate. No, not at all. The purpose wasn't let's get to the bottom of this find out is this Russia is Russia doing this. That was not the purpose. The purpose was make these people look like fools. You only do that if you know something that other people don't. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by monster ultra everybody knows the white monster that clean white can zero sugar crisp. It's everywhere lately gyms your favorite convenience store studios you name it. I see people toss it into their bag before training or long drive big flavor zero sugar that same monster energy kick. But ultra didn't stop there. There's a whole lineup now, vice guava blue Hawaiian and the new wild passion. My favorite is strawberry dreams. It's smooth and sweet with a touch of tart strawberry flavor. And if you're loyal to the white can cool just know that you've got options visit monster energy dot com to learn more. And it worked. It did a damn good job at it because we still feel like fools talking about this. Oh, yeah, we still have to check ourselves and be like is this real if this is real. You know, right. But but I think that shame is starting to diminish. I think the stigma is starting to go away. I think the New York Times article that was a game changer. That was a big one. Yeah. And then from then on it's been this trickle. These guys like Ryan Graves and you know guys like David favor these David favors guys that was you know he was in a fighter jet saw this thing move from 50,000 feet above sea level to sea level in less than a second. And they saw this thing. There was something under the water below it. It's like whatever he saw. And if you ever talk to him, if you ever talk to him, I've talked to Alex Dietrich who is with him. He's a very reliable guy and very intelligent by the book. Very disciplined. I was like a top gun. Yes. He's leading the whole group. Right. Yeah. He's a commander. Yeah. So and when he describes it, it sounds very real. Whatever he's talking about, he experienced. I believe that. And there's also video of it. This video of it flying. They have the radar data. They know that it went to their designated meetup point. The cap point. Yeah. Which is really weird. It is. And indicates they knew the future. Or they were part of our military. Right. I kind of wonder if they take tech because it is somewhat anomalous in the context of a lot of things in the UFO lore as far as spinning discs or big triangular craft. This one kind of seems like one of ours. Well, it is odd that these things happen where there's a lot of military training exercises. Like this one was off the coast of San Diego. Yeah. It was off the Nimitz. You know, so they had the the Nimitz, which was out there. Obviously got a lot of military in San Diego. And the Roosevelt, too, I think is where they were captured in the radar. And the ones that Ryan Grave experienced were all east coast. Again, it's all near military bases. It's all where they do military training exercises. Yeah. And why not figure out what you can do with people that you train with already. Right. And why not see like what is detectable and what's not, you know, Ryan Grave talks about how in 2014 they upgraded all the sensors and the jets and then also they started picking these things up all over the place. He said they were encountering them virtually every time they went out, which is so weird. Imagine you're encountering. Was it a circle inside of a sphere or a sphere inside of a circle in a sphere? Yeah, whatever it was. Yeah. Which one was it? Was a circle of a sphere? It was. I just saw a picture on Twitter recently. It was a little circle and a cube or something. Very fucking weird. Whatever that is. And it is able to hover motionless and like 200 knots of wind. Yeah. And it would make sense if we are reverse engineering these they're going to look pretty primitive. It's basically a big propane tank that they're flying around. Like they probably started simple. It's probably on manned, but they're testing that capability to like manipulate the space time to shoot off. You know, because it dropped 10 80,000 feet. That's what it looks like. Yeah. A cube inside of a sphere. Yeah, I can remember apparently my dyslexia extends to images too. Explain using UFO patents. Click on that. Explained. A recent article about the Hill is highlighted the reports of a cubanosphere UAP military pilots have been seeing is reported by graves where he once again highlights how often our pilots are seeing these things and why he doesn't believe their conventional drones or balloons. And so this is our obviously some sort of a computer generated rendition. And fucking pop up. Yeah. For sure. But I mean, I didn't get a picture of it, but we hear the patents scroll up a little bit. So a month ago, I did a deep dive in a post about UFO patents, how magneto hydro dynamic propulsion systems could explain some of the observations includes the expired patent for the 1960s and a few newer patents describing not only the propulsion, but how the plasma field can make the craft invisible radar. I mean, again, it makes sense. Like if we have been reverse engineering these for 70 years, we would start bringing them out. They would look weird. They wouldn't necessarily look like the craft that we struggle to fly at groom Lake that we could go up and down with. And that's about it. They would look like this little thing that's simple. It's basic. It's propane tanker. It's a cube within a sphere. Pride that backwards again. And then experiment with it. See what you can do. And a lot of people make the argument, well, why would they do that's dangerous? You know what, if there was a mid air collision, if they are actually manipulating space time and these things, like they seemingly are with the saucer shape craft, you don't have to worry about that. You know, you're this isn't a cat mouse game where the cat mouse are equal. Like you have complete control of space time in and around that area. You're not going to run into anybody. They're all moving extremely slowly relative to you. According to put off and Davis at the end of that. And whoever reached out to me, whether it was Hall or not, somebody reached out to me and explain the same thing in 2019. And it makes a lot of damn sense. And to kind of extend it into my area of research, if you can manipulate space and time in and around this craft, what's keeping you from using that to travel through time? I guess, I mean, but again, that's with the different model, not the multi-worlds model, but what was the other model that you described? Block universe. Block universe. Block universe. The idea that they would be so advanced that they could genetically engineer a body and get to whatever state they are at where they communicate telepathically. But yet they can't solve the problem of old DNA, like needing what do they need genetic diversity? Like what is it? What are they trying to get out of us? Are they trying to get the source source material instead of the old stuff or instead of the stuff that they've had forever? One of the arguments I made in my first and second books is that really since European colonialism started about 500 years ago, we are all becoming one inner breeding population. So it used to be that you had different isolated populations and then occasionally there would be gene flow that introduces new genes. If we all are just one population on this inbred island of earth, where are you going to get new gene variants? And then you combine that with the things we just talked about with the potential for things to go wrong with trying to make designer babies or the trends toward reduced fertility and men and women. And importantly, the potential that there could be some massive cataclysm that puts us into a huge bottleneck where there just is no genetic diversity at all. Like if you think about something that happened that wiped out a huge percentage of the population and there are warnings about this over and over again with the experiencers and contactees, they're like, there's some cataclysmic thing coming. If that were to happen, all of those problems were already having. All of the trends that are already leading to us having problems with fertility in the future will be hugely exacerbated by a very limited gene pool. Well, we know that human beings have gotten down to a very small population in the past. So we are already kind of limited in our diversity. What do you think of the theory that human beings have been genetically engineered? Man, when I first started in all this, I wouldn't touch that one because I had to impose some restrictions on myself, so I didn't seem like a crazy person. And keep your academic standing. I don't really care anymore. That would be honest. Well, you sold a few books. Yeah, I sold some books. I mean, that's the thing is like, I do have the respect of my peers. And it's not a career killer anymore. No, exactly. Back in 2018, I was kind of rolling the dice. I was really nervous about it. I went to the chair of my department and was like, hey, just so you know, in case there's any pushback, I'm publishing this book about whether UFOs are future humans. And he looked at me and cocked his head and it's like, that's our job. So what was supposed to be doing? Asking questions like that. It was all pissed off. Why are you even asking me this or telling me this? Well, that's a cool guy before. Yeah, I was like sweet. All right, well, check. I got one. I got one on board at least. But I was really conservative in this approach. Like the dean actually of my college, who gave me an award for scholarship and researchers. And there's a lot of amazing researchers at Montana Technological University. Like we're very well known for research and scholarship. She gave me an award in 2022 for research and scholarship. And all I was doing at that point was UFO stuff. You know, that was kind of a nod too. But she was telling me the other day in a meeting, some of the chair of the department, unfortunately. And she was like, oh, your dissertation book. Because I did kind of write my first book as a dissertation. It's very scientific. It's very dense. It's very technical. But I needed to do that because of the stigma and because of the shame. And you're right, it is changing, which is great. But there are certain things that we still can't. That are hard for me to talk about because it starts to get into ancient aliens territory. And that's one of them. Are they manipulating us genetically? Have they been for a long time? I don't know. I used to say I don't know, so I didn't have to talk about it. Now I say I don't know because I genuinely don't know. Maybe. Well, how could you? How could I? Yeah, good point. Yeah, I mean, it's all theoretical. But there seems to be a trend in at least the encounter reports. And when people have reported some sort of communication with these things, there is a lot of talk of genetic manipulation. There's a lot of talk of. It's the most common trope. Yeah. But it also makes sense when you look at how different we are than any other animal that exists or has existed. True. We're so advanced and so weird and we vary so much. Biologically and structurally. I mean, there's animals. There's different kinds of wolves, right? There's gray wolves and red wolves and they vary. And, you know, red wolves and gray wolves. They can't even interbreed and create viable offspring in terms of their ability. They would be hybrids if they did breed where they wouldn't. But they don't breed with red wolves. And coyotes, which is also a type of wolf. But that's kind of where it ends. Whereas humans are fucking. These coyotes all look like coyotes. Wolves all kind of look like wolves. Like with humans, you get seven-foot tall people and five-foot tall people and round people and thin people. But we are actually all very similar genetically. There's a study done in the '70s looking at polymorphisms and they found that between like. It used to be thought there were races like Africans, Asians and Europeans. They didn't consider Native Americans or Australians or anybody. But they did this study on polymorphisms. Found that only about six to seven percent of all of our genetic differences can be accounted for by those between group differences. And they did the same thing with Y chromosomes. They did the same thing with craniofacial anatomy. And found that were all very similar. So despite those differences in height, weight, skin color, hair color, eye color. We're very, very similar. Which could again lead to problems related to genetic homogenization, limited gene pool in the future. And needing to go back and sample gametes from the past. Another argument I hear people make related to what you're saying. Like an argument for potential genetic manipulation of the human species over time. Is that it all happened really fast. We see this acceleration in our rate of change, rate of our technological development. Those things might indicate that there's some sort of seeding in the past with not just technology, but the genetics that allow us to expand our minds and develop these things. Well, there is the weird stories from ancient scripts, ancient texts like the book of Enoch. What is that all about? That's some weird stuff. We're talking about the watchers coming down from the sky and mating with humans and creating the Nephilim who destroy everything. Yeah, I might get some shit for this. But I would be willing to bet that all major religions and the little ones have some sort of UFO alien component to the myth and legend that gave rise to them over time. It makes sense. It does. Actually, the third book I wrote, Revelation flips the whole script on Revelation. And it interjects time travelers, it interjects this whole-- for a while, there's this question of whether there was a fight over the timeline, whether the grays were coming back to-- because some cataclysm needed to happen and we all went underground. And that's why we have big eyes and pale skinks. We had to evolve underground for a while. And then another group trying to keep that from happening. So the book kind of explores that in a fictional capacity. And I wrote it because my friends weren't reading my science books because they're dense and scientific. And I was like, "Man, you know what if I wrote a book that's just like a crass, sex drug-fueled exploration of like this time travel idea?" And that's where that book came from. It still ties in all of these same concepts scientifically. But in the story-- like the main character is an inter-temporal sex researcher. He goes back in time and just fucks everybody to learn what sex is. That's the book I gave you when I got here, actually. It's a weird one. That's right here. Yeah, it's a weird one. But it's super fun to write, you know? And they're like-- and then her, the professor in this book, he's like the-- he's an inter-temporal drug kingpin of sorts. But it's like-- it's exploring these same ideas in a different way, you know? With fiction, it's satire, it's comedy. The word most commonly used is it's hilarious. It's a comedy book. You know, because I wanted people that don't read the science books to still be introduced to this concept and the science behind it in a different way. And then it was so much more fun to write than those science books. What do you think of when people start theorizing about some sort of a breakaway civilization that lives under the ocean? Yeah, so we actually published a paper about that last June, about the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. You mentioned it on your show in a really funny way. It went viral internationally. It was absolutely insane the impact this thing had. Like I had to go on Foxen Friends one morning to talk about it, and then the next day I did-- What made it go viral? What was the-- Well, because I published it with two guys from Harvard. I was a co-author on the paper, and so it's Harvard researchers say dinosaurs are aliens, and they live among you. So stuff like that. And it worked, because it-- Yeah. Well, it makes you go, "What?" Yours was the funniest one. You guys pulled it up on your screen, and you're like, "Man, these Harvard researchers must snuck in where they're doing the psilocybin experiments and ate all the mushrooms." That cracked me up. And I don't think we did. I don't remember if we did. I don't think we did. But it definitely had elements of like these guys ate a lot of mushrooms, which was part of why it went viral. But there were some really solid arguments in there. And the title of the paper was "Scientific openness to the crypto-terrestrial idea." That's all we were advocating for. And we listed four main ways in which this crypto-terrestrial idea could happen. And the fourth one is what really got click-bady, because maybe there was a breakaway civilization. That's the crypto-terrestrial idea. But maybe an advanced reptile dinosaurs didn't go extinct. And this was, you know, we don't think this actually happened. But we're just putting out arguments for what this idea could be. And so, yeah, they took that and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and stuff like that. But one of them is time travelers. And it would make sense if you were in the future, instead of jumping back through time, in order to study people in a specific time, you set up a base on the far side of the moon, or up until the 60s, 70s, we wouldn't know they were there, set up a base under the oceans. And this would go for the extraterrestrial idea too, instead of traversing the vast swaths of space, come here, set up under the oceans where we're not going to find you, in Artica, far side of the moon. And you can do everything here locally, instead of having a jump across space, extraterrestrial, or jump across time extra tempest room. Well, it also explains some of the very strange ways that they've observed crafts moving under the water. Like they've observed crafts moving under the water at 500 knots, but there's big as a football field. And apparently there's video of these things. Apparently there's, you know, the Navy has something that they filmed that is as big as a football field that was going essentially 500 miles an hour underwater without any ripples. Not disturbing the water at all, not creating a wake. And then moving right out of them, the transmedium capacity. Well, you know, when you think about how little exploration, we've done to the bottom of the ocean, we know more about the moon than we do about the surface of the actual bottom of the ocean. Yeah, it would be a great place to hide out. And again, you know, the ability to move in and out of air, water, space, upper atmosphere, with no disturbances, the transmedium capabilities. That whole warp space time bubble around them would help explain that too, that they're not experiencing the water. They're not experiencing the air as they move between them. Like I always think about, I really love skiing. And one of my favorite times to ski is late season. You know, it's April, the sun's out, everybody's in t-shirts or bikinis or whatever. I don't wear bikinis, but people do. And you get into that slushy stuff, you're cruising down the mountain, you hit the slush, and you just go ass over cattle, you know, over the top of your skis. And that's what, you know, we would expect if they're moving in and out of air and water and space is that there would be some resistance, there's not, you know, they don't have that. And it does indicate that there is some sort of manipulation of space and time around them. And yeah, moving under water, these football field size craft, going that fast. I mean, how can you do that if there is actual resistance from the water? Well, it just makes you wonder how much does the government know? You know, you've seen that guy Timbershot talk about it. He's hilarious. Yeah, it was very funny. He's just casually mentioning that there's five different locations in the ocean of the world, in the seas of the world, where they've observed crafts coming out of. That's a very weird thing to just say while you're walking, just casually talk about it. And with such confidence, yeah. I mean, they're doing these skiffs, they're talking to people behind closed doors. They don't have the same requirement to not disclose things as those people do. Right. I didn't sign NDAs. And he has a hilarious way of talking about it. He's got the best one-liners of anybody discussing this stuff. I mean, somebody knows. Somebody knows a lot of things. A lot of people probably know a lot of things and have for a very long time. But, you know, what is that relationship? What do they control? Why are we not allowed to know? Well, this is the real question. Like, what do they actually know about what's going on in the ocean? Like, if there are bases somewhere down in the ocean, there's that weird one, the Baltic Sea anomaly. I don't know that one. You know what that one? Jesse Michaels just did a show about it where he interviewed the guy who found it. I think they're treasure divers, and they found this very strange thing that is sitting on the floor of the ocean. And it has right angles to it, and it's kind of curved. There's an actual, I don't know what kind of an image is of it, but they have explored this thing, and he's convinced that it's not a natural formation. Yeah, interesting. So, you can find something on the Baltic Sea. Put that into our response to the collectivation. It's like a basic. It looks like a fucking Millennium Falcon. What's wrong with my mouth today? I can't say Millennium Falcon. Like, that's what it looks like. That's interesting. So, you know, look, this could be something that's sitting on, or it could be something that was built at a time where this was not covered by ocean. Yeah. Like you live in Montana. Montana used to be the great inland sea, right? Yeah. You could find seashells in Montana, which is really weird. Yeah, and even all along the coast of Alaska, there's about 110 foot rise and sea level of the last 12,000 years. More images of this thing? Like, what is that though? Yeah. But these are all artistic renditions, some of them are. But the other one, that blue one that you see there, that's the real thing. That's what it actually looks like. Yeah, it's pretty anomalous. Right. What is that though? Is that an ancient structure that people built, you know, 20,000 years ago? Like, what is it? Baltic Sea anomaly is a sonar detected sea floor formation, the northern Baltic Sea found in 2011 by Swedish OceanX, formerly Ocean Explorer team during a treasure hunting expedition. Most geologists who have examined the available data consider it a natural rock formation shaped by glacial processes despite ongoing popular speculation about UFOs or artificial origin. Yeah. It's tough, man. There's that thing off the coast of Malibu, too. Is that Malibu? Or is it a Catalina island? Was that one thing where it was in Google Earth and then they blurred it out after a while? I think that's just a Google Earth thing. Maybe. I mean, maybe not. But it was on Google Earth and then now it's blurred. I read where they're getting the data from the Google Earth, you know, like where that, what is that data, you know? Also, so it was like bad data. I think so. And then it cleared up. Okay. Also, that's a good answer. I did a good answer for the government. I did a talk in Manhattan last year. And Tim Gallaudet was one of the speakers and he would show an images of I think what you're talking about where there was like this sort of almost like a cliff on the water and then had some strange things around it. Yeah. It had been modified or I didn't I don't remember exactly what he was saying, but I think that I think that's what you're talking about. Yeah, that was just off of Catalina island. That's right. Yeah, it was very weird looking. And a lot of people were spec, and one of the reasons why it's very weird, there's a lot of sightings of a Catalina island. There's a lot of sightings out there. Yeah. And it, you know, again, it makes sense if they were trying to covertly study us regardless of their origins, ultra-dress, true, extra-dress, true, whatever. Use the oceans. Perfect. Perfect base. It's very different. Especially if you can move in and out of there with impunity, not just because we won't see them, but they have the technology to make the water. And the air, the same thing. Click on that image where the cursor's at. Yeah, that's it. So that's it. Whatever that is. Like that looks real weird. It does look weird. That looks real weird. Whatever the hell that is. That's so strange. That's so strange looking. But again, that's like, is that what it really looks like? What are the new images? Is the new one the right? Okay, that's it right there. The one that had up says it's from 2014. Like what the hell is that? It's got pillars. I mean, that's very strange. It has those sort of uniform shaped pillars. Yeah, and the top looks very flat. Structural. Like something you would make to withstand the weight of the water. Right. Like a garage door. Yeah. Like it's a garage door to a base. Yep. No, I mean, again, when I started out in this, I was relatively conservative with my views on things. But man, further you go down this rabbit hole, just the weirdest shit gets and you can't do that anymore. You've got to recognize that there's a lot of things that just. You can't write off, you know. The impossible will become possible, or at least you have to open your mind to the fact that these things you used to think were impossible. You need a second look. Right. And then there's also the people that work in military intelligence that work with these defense contractors that say there's black operations, like operations that are completely top secret that are 30 years ahead of anything that you can imagine right now. So you go, okay, well, what does that look like? What does 30 years ahead of us now look like? Yeah, like that was SR71, the black bird or whatever it is, black, whatever. Yeah, like we didn't even know about that until 20 years after they had made it. Right. And it makes sense. You know, you don't want your enemies to know, and that's an argument that's been made over and over that we can't disclose things because then our enemies will have this technology. Of course. And I always thought, growing up that, you know, it'll take a war before they're like, oh, we need to use these things. We've been developing. Like we're getting our ass kicked in this war. It's time to bring out the UFOs and our. Yeah. specialties or weapons and stuff. But I kind of think it's going to happen before that. It's weird to say, but I kind of get the sense that it is happening. There's been a lot of false horizons. People have been saying that for a long time, but that doesn't feel different. It definitely does feel different. It definitely feels that the general public is a lot more open to the concept without being thought of as a fool. Right. It used to be when I was a kid, if you'd bring up UFOs, people would just roll their eyes, especially before the internet. Oh my God. If you brought up any of that stuff, they would laugh at you. I was reading some book on Roswell once, like I think it was in the 1990s, and you know, this guy was like, what the fuck you wasting your time on this complete horseshit for? There's no such thing as UFOs. How do you say that with such confidence? We live in a galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy, with hundreds of billions of stars in other galaxies. And there's hundreds of billions of other galaxies. What are you saying? That's crazy to say that we are the only ones. They did a really good job at making us feel like idiots. Yeah. You can see how that can be done. Look what they did during the COVID crisis. If you don't get a vaccine, make your end of life preparations now. You're going to be killing everybody. No one's going to survive. This disease targets the own vaccinated. And people believed all that. I think the two are related too, because we started to figure out that we've been lied to about UFOs, and the obvious question is what else? What else were they lying to us about? Yes. Well, I think once we realize how strong the propaganda machine is and how global people are. Oh yeah, that's the big one. Easily. I mean, if people were going to accept something as 100% truth out, any investigation or any skepticism from the pharmaceutical drug industry, they are the most evil motherfuckers that have ever lived. They are responsible for more death from releasing drugs that have horrible adverse side effects that they knew about. They have taken the largest criminal fines of any companies. I mean, what they've done is really fucking creepy. When you look at how they released drugs that they knew were going to fuck people over and they knew those people didn't need those drugs. And yet, when you put people in a scary situation and you make them terrified and you offer up a solution, they believe wholeheartedly that the pharmaceutical drug companies were only telling the truth and anybody who didn't believe is your best interest in mine. So it's like that sheep mentality is so strong with so many people. There are so many cowards in the world and so many followers that would just step in line. The moment things get weird, whenever they get challenged, the moment things get weird, that it just makes sense that if you make it socially, you become a social pariah. If you start talking about UFO, here is Mike, who is fucking wacky UFO theories. Like people don't talk about those things. They don't want to bring them up. And the military industrial complex is kind of the equivalent of the pharmaceutical companies on the other side of this coin. Sure. You know, we trust them. They defend us, whatever they are making. I'm sure they'll use for great purposes. But yeah, I mean, a big part of that was making us feel like idiots were talking about this stuff and that is changing though. And it's not largely because of, you know, ancient aliens. I've been on the show five times. I had a little bit of cognitive dissonance the first time I went on that show goes they go way out there. It's just fun. It is fun. You know, and that's how I approached it. Well, I also approached it because I was trying to talk about this theory. They did this funny bait and switch for the first three episodes I was on. Whether they're like, "Hey, come down, talk about your theory." I'm like, "Oh, okay. So I'll go to LA or wherever." And we do the shoot. They cut out everything about my books in this theory and just used me to talk about whatever the show was actually about. A little small snippets. Yeah, I cut on to that. And so the fourth time I went on, I was like, "All right, but I'm only doing it if you guys actually, you know." And one of the episodes was about this whole theory anyways. It made sense, but I forget what we're talking about. Oh, the stigma. So one of the cool things that's been happening, largely because of ancient aliens in your show, you know, you talk about this a lot and it helps normalize it for a lot of people. It's that there's a safe space now, you know, like where you'll be talking about these things and some of you'll come up who had a sighting when they were, you know, a teenager in the 40s or whatever. And they never told anybody. And now it's like, wait, it's safe to talk about this. And that's so cool to see, man. And then it makes me realize just how many people have had an experience. They've been bottled up inside. It's liberating to let that come out. And we're sharing information in contact. These two, you know, unfortunately I started saying earlier, we're still kind of stuck on, this is changing too, but we're still largely stuck on the cockpit videos and the fleer and the gimbal and go fast. But people have been taken into these craft. They've had stuff put on their junk and they're seeming to take it into junk. There's a lot of no-no square touching that happens, anal probes, you know, and we used to laugh at that, but that is such a common theme throughout these. And we need to recognize that these people are having real experiences and have been having them for a very long time. Let's move on. Let's talk to these people. Let's let the contactees and experiencers who have had the closest form of a close encounter you can have. Let's trust them now. Let's listen to what they have to say. Let's be discerning, you know, but let's keep an open mind. Well, I think one of the more interesting things when you start talking about stories and encounters, one of the more interesting things is some of the research that Jacques Vallet has done where he brings up stories that absolutely predate the modern cultural visions of UFOs. Like the modern cultural concept of the close encounter of the third kind type grays that come down in a flying saucer, all those things like flying saucer didn't even come out until the kind of Arnold experiences. So it's these encounters people are talking about from the 1700s and the 1800s. And they're talking about something coming down and something interacting with people and, you know, them having some sort of experience of lost time. The thread is very common, the Betty and Barney Hill story. Yep. Yeah, it's not just the game eight extractions. I mean, you could make the argument that a lot of things that happened in very mainstream religious texts were exactly what people are describing. Even the CIA admitted that people like unexplainable pregnancies are an aspect of the phenomenon, you know, where Jesus come from kind of an unexplainable pregnancy. I think Jesus was time traveler personally. A time travel. Yeah, that's another aspect of that book. That's in your satire. It's in my satire book. Yeah. I think. Oh, you literally have Jesus. Got some shit for that. With the double bird. He's throwing up the double bird. It turns out Christians don't like that. Well, you can't please everybody, right? No, you can't. But there are many aspects of Jesus' life, big fan of Jesus, by the way. That are very paranormal. A lot of these seemingly miraculous things, I think, can be explained with a lot of the same technologies that we see today. We just didn't have a way of conceptualizing them. Obviously, Ezekiel is the one that gets talked about a lot of the wheel within a wheel, the telepathy, the embers, burning embers. Yeah. Yeah. And then you look at the Nephilim, like, and in all kinds of different, certain Bobo want to race this story from Zulu lore. It's a fucking alien abduction, man. And they've been telling this story for thousands of years. So it's this woman, the sky goddess, who chooses a man to mate with and comes down, tests him to make sure that he knows that it appears in his dreams, communicates telepathically, gets him ready for this interaction. He's in love with her. Never met her before. She comes down from the sky and takes him up with her on this rainbow of light. And I made the case in my second book that if Antonio V.S. Bois had been able to go back with the woman that he had sex with, it's basically the same story. So as Brazilian lawyers telling a story that's identical to the Zulu legend that's been told for centuries, millennia, I don't know how far it goes back. But we need to look outside of just the mainstream view, which is finally happening. So I'm excited about that. I'm very grateful. I have a lot of gratitude about what's happening. But the question is so far there. Why did the mainstream view become what it is? And we know that that is because of a concerted, concentrated propaganda effort. And a very effective one. I mean, they nailed it. But there was no other media back then. They had complete control of newspapers, complete control of television stations. I mean, how much do we know now about various news anchors that were actually CIA agents? So fucking shit, ton of them. And even if they weren't, they were being forceved this stuff that they were happy to regurgitate. Absolutely. Yeah. They just wanted to look good and have a suit and speak like on that job. Here we go. And if you don't toe the line, somebody else will. Yeah. And you're living a great life. You're traveling Mercedes, living a nice house. Why would you fuck this up over a UFO story? Just tell your friends. Just tell everybody yourself. You're supposed to tell them. Yeah. It's easy to get people to comply like that, especially when they're dependent upon, you know, whether it's a corporate entity like CNN or whether it's New York Times or whatever it is. It's not hard to give people to comply. No. And you're right. Since the internet, things have changed radically. What really radically, radically. But I think there's a downside too where we've already kind of been moving toward a post-truth existence. Good Lord, man. Like I'll scroll through videos on Twitter now. 90% of them are fake. Oh, there's so much AI now. It's so ridiculous. And not crazy. I make the unfortunate decision to go into the comments to see what percentage of people think it's real. 80. 90. I would say at least 90. It's insane. Like I just still have it on my phone. It's a stupid fucking video of a rabbit like nursing that's little rabbit babies and one of them's a cat. So the mom cat comes in, picks the fucking baby cat up by the nose. Like they're magnetically attached. It doesn't even grab it. Like they just the baby kind of comes with it and then walks out the back of the burrow. Like there's no back to a rabbit burrow. You know, and everybody's like, oh, whoops, that cat made a mistake. It's drinking from the wrong species. People don't see it. They don't see that this is very obviously fake. And it's, it's not just for that. Like they're using it for propaganda. They're using it for the same type of thing that they've used forever. Oh, well, this UFO phenomenon's not real because AI made this video. Well, there's also the problem with what percentage of people that are even commenting are actual people. Exactly. It's a huge amount of bots that are communicating on all the social media platforms. A giant percentage of the comments are not real people. That's a really good point. Yeah. No, you're right. So they would comment on anything and just say what that also still feeds the perception that it's real. Because other people that maybe don't have great critical thinking skills or discernment because, you know, they're 90 year old grandma that doesn't know how to use a computer. She sees that. Oh, it's cute. I think it erodes the consensus intelligence. Yeah. Like the, like the, the overall level of intelligent discourse that a society puts out, you know, if you have a town square, which is like Twitter is our town square, right? If that town square is populated by fake people, like enormous percentage populated by fake people that are just designed to say the most inflammatory, ridiculous things to get interaction and engagement and also to erode people's faith in other people and to make us argue with each other. Or it's construct the other like you were saying at the end of this conversation. It feels tribalism. Yeah. It's really problematic. My, my hope is that eventually there'll be some way to accurately discern and it'll stop that stuff from happening. You know, that you'll be able to tell like very clearly whether or not it's an actual person. The problem is that if that does happen, it's a gateway to digital ID because you would have to lose your anonymity. If you're like anonymity is very important for whistleblowers, like say if you work for corporation, you find out that corporation is dumping stuff into a river and it's all secret and it's illegal and you know that if you tell they're going to kill you, you know, and you're an executive of that corporation, you're conscious is troubled. You can make a fake account, you could sign up through a VPN, you can make a fake account and you could post all this information that you know and you could break a story and you don't face any consequences. You don't get killed. If you have digital ID, if we know who everybody is is posting something and you make that same post, who knows what they do to you? Who knows what happens. Yeah, and it's been happening. There's been whistleblowers who have had mysterious deaths all over a long time, all over the place. Yeah, it's it's Gary Webb. Didn't he shoot himself in the head twice? Was that the story? What's the one Timbershed always says, get shot and or you shoot yourself in the back of the head for a time. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a reference to that. How did Gary Webb die? Yeah, I'm making sure it's true. Yeah, there's, but even if that's not true, there's a bunch of stories about whistleblowers who go missing. Yeah, there's plenty of examples. If you're inconvenient, you're going to cost them billions of dollars and they can just get rid of you. They just get rid of you. Whoever they are. Yeah, it all comes down to money and it has for a very long time. Someone was deciding if this was accurate. They found the case where someone shot themselves in the head eight times. Oh, there's a couple cases where it's not boy, that's the commitment. I mean, I guess if it was like an airsoft gun or something. I don't think that killed me. It'd be really an efficient way to kill yourself. Yeah, the whole thing's crazy. Do you think it's even possible to kill yourself with gun or soft gun? Maybe like a lobotomy kind of you shot yourself up the nose eight times. That's not that fast. That's not is it? I mean, it might. That's it. That's it. I guess you got enough airsoft bullets in you just fills up your entire day. And you never went to the doctor eventually getting infection. I think somebody might intervene at that point. When I was living in LA when I first moved there, a guy had killed himself accidentally on a set because he took a gun. That was a blank gun and he shot himself in the head, like trying to be funny. And he killed him because the force that comes out of the gun is still extremely powerful. And he put it to his temple and he literally caved his skull in. That sucks. Yeah, that's rough. Yeah, that was just an actor who just didn't know any better. And he thought he was just going to be funny. Yeah, so shoot yourself in the head twice, highly unlikely. Eight times. I guess you could shoot yourself in the head once and just really fuck it up. But be aware that you're still alive and be committed to doing it and then shoot yourself a second time. I guess it's possible. I mean, unless the pain response was like, yeah, it didn't feel good. Right. I don't want to do that again. Or maybe the pain response is so bad. You want to do it again? Oh, that's a pain point. Yeah. Like, whoops. Let's get this over with. I don't know. But our point, what we're getting at is that for the longest time, there was no real outlet to get true information out other than books. And books are so easily maligned, you know, if someone has a cookie book, you're reading, you go, "Oh, that guy's nuts." That is a conspiracy theory. And then, of course, that term's popular as during the JFK assassination because of that very reason. There was a lot of people that doubted the official story and those people became conspiracy theorists. Have you looked into that much? Oh, yeah. I kind of thought you had. Who do you think did it? I think there was a lot of people. I think here's a mistake that people make. They say, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved. And he was a Patsy. Lee Harvey Oswald shot a cop. There are really, there's like very few people that disagree on that. I think it's Officer Tippett, I think that was his name, when he was on the run. So, Lee Harvey Oswald absolutely seems to be some sort of intelligence asset in some way or another. Married a Russian woman, lived in Russia for a while, came back to the United States during the time of, I mean, this is right after the red scare. The fact that this guy went to Russia, married a Russian woman, came back and, like, the whole thing screwing. He could have been a Patsy and involved, too. Yes. Absolutely. I heard some theory once about, like, the driver turned around with some, that's a horseshit gun. Was there something about, like, a poisonous fish? Horsehit. That's a horsehit. Oh, horsehit. That's why I was asking because I don't know. There's a lot of those, one of the best ways to make a conspiracy theory seem absolutely ridiculous, is to add a bunch of really silly ones into the mix. And so that any conspiracy theory involving something that's not the official narrative. But there's just so many aspects of the Kennedy assassination, the back into the left, the headshot, the shot in the neck from the front, the magic bullet, which is the most preposterous. There's a lot of them, there's a lot of these weird aspects to it. And it's also the fact that Kennedy was very hated. Also the fact that, you know, it's in daily plaza, which is like, why would you ever drive someone through there in a convertible? That's the president. That's a very, you know, any president is, you know, we think of JFK was the most loved president. Right, by half the country. That's how it always is, folks. There's always half the country that thinks you suck and half the country that loves you. That's how it was with Clinton, that's how it was with Obama. So it is with everybody. Yeah, now we don't tend to agree on those things. Down, there's a lot of people that were very happy when he died, including Dulles. So Dulles was fired by JFK and then was on the Warren Commission, investigating JFK's assassination, which is hilarious. It's kind of crazy. Richard Nixon also in the Warren Commission. The Warren Commission, there's a great book on it called Best Evidence by David Lichten. And he was an accountant that was hired to do something with the Warren Commission, something of some aspect of the Warren Commission. So he decides to read the whole thing. It's a huge amount of pages. I forget how many pages are in the Warren Commission report. I think it's at least 900 pages. So he reads the whole thing. And after he comes to this conclusion, there's so many inconsistencies, there's so many contradictions. This doesn't make any sense. They were trying to reach a conclusion. So many of the witnesses that saw the assassination died in very weird deaths. The statistical possibility or probability of all those people dying from murder or suicide, car accidents. It's just too weird. It's too weird. What about the UFO connection? That's the one I hear. I don't know what they're like CIA ties and I don't know. I don't know what's bullshit and what's not. There was clearly, we had the technology for 20 years at that point, but what does a president even know? I don't know what they know. I don't know whether or not they would kill them for that. That doesn't make any sense. Do you know the Nixon story with Jackie Gleason? No, I don't think so. The story is that Jackie Gleason and Nixon were drinking one day. And they were friends and Nixon was like, "I want to see a fucking UFO." They get into playing and he took them to, "Was it Wright Patterson? Jamie, do you remember?" I think it was somewhere in Florida, but I remember when we looked this up, he went somewhere. I'll look it up. So anyway, supposedly sees this recovered craft and bodies that are in freezers. So Jackie Gleason, one thing is true about this. He became obsessed with UFOs. That is true. And it'd be hard not to, after some like that. Yeah, there's definitely a catalyst. I mean, fucking dude, right now someone took me if Trump called me up. And all of a sudden I'm standing in front of some craft that's made of this unknown alloy. And especially some of the weirder stories where you have a craft that's like 40 feet wide and you go inside of it, it's bigger than a football field. That's wild. So here it is. Nixon arranged for him to visit Homestead Air Force Base in Florida upon his arrival. The guards took Gleason to a building at a remote location on the site there, Gleason, who harbored an intense interest in UFOs. Saw the bomb bodies of four alien beings, two feet long with small bald heads and big ears. He was told nothing about the circumstances of the recovery. He swore his wife to secrecy, but after the divorce, Beverly freely discussed the story. In the mid 80s, UFO, UFOologists, Larry Bryant sued the US government to get it to reveal its UFO secrets. It's a success to subpoena Gleason. Wow, I'm going to subpoena Gleason. Yo, that's crazy. I mean, he could just plead the fifth all the time. Oh, yeah. I was drunk. I don't remember anything. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, how would you know? But Gleason built a house in upstate New York. Oh, yeah, I heard about that. That looks like a UFO. Right. Is it for sale right now? It is right now. Yeah, we thought about buying it. I did. I looked out up one time. I don't remember why, but it's kind of cool. Yeah, it's kind of cool, but the problem is if we bought it, everybody would know that that's ours. Yeah, true. Like, oh, Joe Rogan's got the UFO house to go in. And then they'd visit and fuck up my vacation. It's pretty sure it's true. That's always bound to happen. I remember you. That's the house. Very gold. Very the house. I mean, come on, man. That's pretty sweet. Fucking crazy. Something happened. He was, he was, there was a catalyst involved in his interest. Well, I mean, if your friends with Nixon, and this is in the 1960s, and this, all this stuff is. Yeah. I saw an interview with Barry Goldwater, where he was talking about. Fucking dope house, by the way. Fucking about asking, asking some commander general about what's it right, Pat. And I guess he just custom out. Barry Goldwater. He was like, never fucking asking me that again. Yeah. Really? Yeah. He custom out Barry Goldwater. He was a, yeah, I don't think he was ever present. Can't have date. Right. But yeah, no, there's people that don't want us to know. The big thing going around now is that Dick Cheney was the ringleader of all of this. The deep state, the UFO secrets, the gatekeepers. Wow, he had to know. Of course. I don't know. Kissinger too, probably. Like the legacy programs. These are legacy people. Well, someone is got to talk, right? But it's like, but at to what level? And the idea, here's, here's the really erroneous idea that a lot of people hold. People can't keep a secret. Of course they can. Especially when their life's being done. Yeah, of course they can. Especially if, I mean, there are certain programs that if you disclose the existence of this program, it is considered treason. And they are allowed to execute you for that. So you have to take that into consideration. I would keep a secret if that was the case. Of course. Then you have to take into consideration the immense amount of money. And this is discussed really very comprehensively in the age of disclosure document. I think they did a great job of highlighting the whole problem with the misappropriation of funds. So someone had a lie to Congress. If they have these back engineering programs, if they've been spending as much as a trillion dollars over the course of X amount of years, where's that money? And who lied and who benefited from it? What military contractors were allowed to have this stuff to back engineer it? What process has taken place to shield the American public from that? And what profits have they made from that, that it made them like much more anti-competition against other military contractors? It just didn't make sense to keep the secret, too. It's not just you might get killed, but there's a lot of profit potential in this. And we don't want our competitors to have that. Also, a lot of fraud, I'm sure. Like with any no oversight at all. And a shitload of money. Black money. Oh my god. Well, there's not a chance in hell that there wasn't some money to work in people's pockets. A human nature takes over. And people were like, well, I could just keep some of that. Yeah. Nobody's watching the till. Yeah, I mean, look, we're finding that with things just like black lives matter. It was massive fraud. Like just like just non-profit organizations. Oh, yeah. Like, I don't want to start shitting on NGOs or anything. But that's a big reason why I don't give money to. I'll find, you know, smaller organizations doing thing on a local level. But you get big enough. Yeah, absolutely. You get big enough, it's just that happens. Yeah. And of course, if you're talking trillions of dollars, black money that nobody's tracing. And I mean, that was one of David Rush's arguments too, is that these whistleblowers are exposing crimes, you know, fraud, potential murder that happened to keep these secrets. So, yeah, it's a complex, it's a very nuanced situation that will. We will have to move past if we are going to have disclosure in some capacity. However, that happens. I mean, Amnesty's been talked about some people. That was in the documentary. That was the road out of this, which totally makes sense to me. Like, what is really important? The fraud has already taken place. If people are prosecuted for the fraud, guess what? If we don't release it, they'll never be prosecuted for the fraud anyway. Yeah, and what's the alternative? We wait until they die and then talk about it. I would rather just give them Amnesty now and then let them die with healthy secrets going to their deathbed with them. But just not only that, if they're misappropriating funds, they're not just doing it 30 years ago. They're doing it last week. So, now the current people also have an incentive to not disclose. Yeah. Unless you have mass Amnesty to say, listen, let's just forget about all this stuff. Then the problem with that is all those people that are profiting off of it right now and also funneling money into whatever NGOs they have and misappropriation of money. What do we do with that IP, too? Like the only actual property that say Northrop Grumman or whoever has Boeing, like, do we share that now? Do they have to give that up and spread it across the industry? Yeah. It's all weird, man. It's very weird because there's been a few inventions that came about after Roswell. A lot of people say, like, this does not make any sense. Yeah, fiber optics is one. Transistor is another one. Yeah. There's a lot of weirdness. People say, oh, there's a drug. And people say scientific research shows how they made it. Yeah, but there's not. If you go into it, it's like there's a giant leap that gets made. Right. That's real weird. I mean, I'll take more leaps, man. Like, honestly, these crafters be empowered by something that's very, very energized, you know? Yeah. And if we could use that to, I mean, I pay a lot in utilities bills. I was going to talk about climate change or some shit and then I made about myself in my utilities. You get out your own zero point energy generator in your backyard. Never have to worry about power again. You pay to eat it like 90, you know? How does my Christmas lights as I want? Yeah. Never worry about the grid. The grid doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't exist. I mean, imagine that. Yeah. Infrastructure level. And there's so many implications. And if it's real. If it's real. If you think it's real. Right. You're convinced. I'm convinced it is. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. There's so much energy trapped within the space between. You know? Like that's, that's what it is. Even that zero degrees. Try to explain energy. If you can, try to explain the concept of zero point energy. Man, that's beyond my pay grade. Other than that, I know that it is infinitely times more energetic than what you get when you split an atom or fuse atoms together, the nuclear force. My understanding, again, very limited knowledge is that even when you take a molecule part of code or whatever and you freeze it down to zero degrees, there's still energy inside of that. And there's energy at a sub quantum level that if we could tap into that, it would provide infinite energy. The downside is it would also make a bomb that is much, much more powerful than the biggest hydrogen bomb because you're releasing that energy in a way that's irresponsible. There's this quote going around by E.O. Wilson, famed biologist on, I think I saw it on Twitter that was like, we have prehistoric emotions, medieval institutions, and god-like technology. Basically saying we're fucked because we've got, we're like little kids playing with chainsaws. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But zero points. Or points. Little kids playing with guns. Yeah, exactly. But zero points kind of that next thing. When Einstein equals MC squared, there's all this energy and mass and if we split these atoms, combine these atoms, we can release that energy sweet, but hundreds of thousands of people died in Japan, you know? Right, right. So what's the flip side of zero point? Like it would definitely unlock a lot of potential, but are we responsible enough as a species to handle that type of energy? Right. Currently no. E.O. Wilson says no, and I'm on board with anything. Well, I'm on board with it. Just look at what's happening in Ukraine. Look at what's happening in Gaza. I mean, there's full scale war. Scary. Shit. It's happening right now in various parts of the world where we're just blowing people to smithereens. And you know what? That's kind of an interesting argument about the whole time travel thing. You know, there's these genocides. There's a genocide happening now in Gaza. It blows my mind that we can still have genocides and just not do anything about it. But like Pol Pot, you know, three, four million people killed the Holocausts, Darfur. But these aliens don't seem to care about us. It was something that John Mcnotist, he wrote about it a lot. They're really focused on the earth. You know, they care about this planet. They don't necessarily care about us as individuals, as a species. Well, clearly they care as a species, but they do kind of care as individuals. The people that get picked up are oftentimes, obviously, there's cases where this doesn't happen. But they're cared for. They're told, no harm will come to you, you know, Barney Hill was told that. It's a common, commonly repeated thing. So they take care of people. They give us screen memories to try to hide what they did. They sometimes give people tours of the ship. They seemingly care about us as individuals, but not when we start murdering each other on a massive scale. They've never intervened in these things. Right. However, they have demonstrated their ability and willingness to shut down nukes. They might intervene if we move to the point where we're not just destroying ourselves, but we're destroying the planet that they may also call home in the future. If they are future humans, that whole care for the planet, take care of the planet. They told the kids in Zimbabwe, they told the kids in Wales during this other incident. They tell these contactees all the time, take care of the planet, take care of the planet, but they don't seem to care about us. And it might actually benefit them if we don't screw up this planet either through nuking ourselves or just all of the other things we do to it because we're kind of parasitic in a way. Well, also, if they are us in the future, we probably have to go through all this to realize the folly of our ways. That's a good point. Dark night of the soul, kind of. Yeah, I mean, clearly we're getting better. We're still horrible, but we're better today than we were during the Viking days. We're better today than we were during the time of Ginghis Khan. We're better. We're more civilized. We're more peaceful. There's less war, even though there's still war. So it's a slow, gradual shift of consciousness that probably is going to be accelerated by technology, especially if there is some sort of a technology that connects us telepathically and allows people to read minds. One of the things that Elon famously said about his neuralink, it's like you're going to be able to talk without words. Yeah, I had a whole section in my first book about that. The question of whether it's a technology-mediated brain-to-brain communication, or if there's something about our consciousness that allows us to communicate telepathically without some sort of technology. And I kind of, I did that. My friend Jeff Crayple pointed this out, he's like, I see why you did that. You know, you're like, well, what if it is technology? And there's a lot of studies that have shown we can communicate through some sort of computer medium. But so many people in contact, eCases, who are spoken to or can speak to the visitors telepathically, don't have that. There's also all of the research of Dean Raiden at Ions and all of his other studies that he's put out that show people have telepathic abilities with very, very strong p-values, statistically showing that we have this ability, I think a lot of people have it and just don't realize, but it does seem like we're moving in that direction, like you were talking about the evolution of consciousness, it seems like we're sort of moving to that, whether Nierlink has anything to do with it or any sort of computer-mediated brain to brain transmission. I think we're just becoming telepathic and unlocking these abilities that have always sort of lied dormant within us. Yeah, I've often asked the question, is it one of two things? Is this a new emerging aspect of human consciousness? Or is this an aspect of human consciousness that exists before verbal speech? And then verbal speech, and then of course the written word, video, all that stuff, it just became completely non-useful to us or-- It's like we lost it and we're trying to get it at atrophied. Yeah, I mean, you had Kai Dickens on, the telepathic tapes were hugely impactful, and a lot of those episodes show that this is actually extremely common, and it seems like that's kind of where we're going. I look at that as another indication that these are us in the future, that their main form of communication is telepathy, and we're already seemingly moving in that direction. What do you make of the tridactyl mummies in Peru? Can we pee first? Yeah. Okay. Oh, do that right now. So we'll be right back folks. Jay Anderson's X-page, it's Project Unity. Yes, I always come in on soon. Yeah, so Jay Anderson just released this, and Jesse Michaels actually went down to Peru and actually saw those things and handled them in person, and he said it was fucking surreal. He said they are real creatures, whatever they were, it is a real thing, and they look exactly like an alien. He has a video that he just released, Jamie, I think it's a video that he's releasing on. That's it right there. So Scans reveal this ancient alien looking mummy has a baby inside of her, well, that's one of them. So these things, like whatever this is, we get volumes, are you going to hear what you're saying? So she has slightly smaller stature and slider build the Maria, but shares the same natural mummification with skin covering parts of the body. Her skull is elongated with large eye orbits and cranial volume comparable to Maria's. Importantly, Montserrat CT Scans reveal that she was carrying, in her abdominal cavity, the team identified a developing fetal form being visible on the Scans, a tiny tridactyl embryo with skeletal structure curled in a womb like space. This confirms that Montserrat was pregnant with at least one advanced fetus. Montserrat also contains an astonishing array of metallic implants, at least 10 distinct metal implants embedded into her body. These include four small round implants in her skull, two on each side, several in her chest and thoracic area, and others along her arm and leg bones as per the CT images. Her described as very dense and made of rare metals, osmium and gold. Additionally, Montserrat's chest anatomy is peculiar. She has an expanded ribcage without a sternum, like the other tridactyls, and an interclavical bone, an extra bone at the shoulder girdle. Noted by researchers, her spine is continuous into the skull, again, demonstrating this cranioservical canal. The consciousness. The most deeply analyzed specimens, high-resolution 128-slice CT scans were performed, and a full 3D virtual autopsy was conducted. The scans confirmed Montserrat's pregnancy with tridactyl features. "How strange is this? Like what is that? And these are in Peru, the same place where you get the NASCAR lines, the same place where you have Soxohemon, you have these incredible structures that defy logic, defy conventional construction methods, and especially the Alman, the big petroglyph on the side of the hill that can only be appreciated from space. There's a lot of weirdness from Peru, it seems like a very extraordinary place, and at one point in time, well also the ancient artistic depictions of these exact beings. There's these ancient tapestries and ancient art pieces that show these three fingered, three toad beings, and this is all like a part of their folklore. And then you have these actual creatures, like that thing is 1,400 years old, I think it is. So if that's the carbon date on that mummy, so I think it's that old. There's one that's 1,200, I think the oldest one is like 1,400. That sounds right, something like that. But like whatever that is, there's not a chance in fucking hell that people back then had the ability to fake that. And that with that depth, you see tendon structures, ligaments, you have a completely different skeletal structure, no sternum, different clavicle bones. It's fucking weird. Three fingers, three toes, which is by the way, exactly what Lazar described, I believe, as or some people described as like the control, it might not be Lazar, the controls inside the grass that they've observed that had these three fingered things. Varginia, Brazil, those things had three fingers and three toes. So the question is like, they saw footprints too in that case, didn't they? Yeah, well they, so supposedly one of the soldiers carried a hurt and injured whatever it is. There were three, one and two saw it too, like an alley or something. Yeah, that's the moment of contact documentary, very good, very good James Fox documentary. It is. I watched that with James Fox, a pre, before he released it, we were at the same conference in the show. Crazy documentary. Yeah, it's really good. But those things look exactly like that. Yeah, we're described, it'd be cool if they saw eyeballs because they said they had red eyes and that. Right. Daco, which would be kind of crazy. What are these things on, they're, they're the same size and then the same shape. And they're also that thing, that trifectal thing. What does it look like? It was exactly like a gray. It's small. It is a big head, it has big eyes. It's very thin, thin body. Like when you look at its body, when it's curled up in the fetal position, it's no muscle. It's very small. Yeah, there's definitely, I mean there's variation in within the way these things are described. Unfortunately, until we have, like, you know, dude got to go with Nixon to see these things in liquid. That's like a wet dream of mine, man. I would like to go see these things and like study them as a biological anthropologist. That would be the holy grail for me to actually get somewhere that you could go right now on earth. If you knew the right guy, you see that? Absolutely, yeah. That's crazy. I'm sure there's many, many examples of these things. I would argue in multiple places that I'm not allowed to go see and it makes me mad. But what does your take when you see these things? Right, so I've always been outwardly critical of them except, I guess the question is which ones and what do we mean by real? Like, these are obviously real. These are things that aren't a fairy tale. I mean, they make their way into the lore, so we do have to take that in the same way that these ancient stories about things that are very similar to the UFO phenomenon. But this is an actual physical moment. That's what I'm saying. This doesn't make believe, this is a real thing. I've been highly critical of the little ones. Oh, yeah. There's some fake ones. Yeah. But when I first started talking about these, those were conventionally understood to be real too. Oh, really? I got a lot of shit for that. I actually retired from the mummy thing. I'm happy to come out of retirement for you, Joe. But I retired from the mummy thing because I was getting trolled so hard, so aggressively, I'm like, I'm out. I don't give a shit. By people that thought they were real. Yeah. But they look fake. The difference between those. See, we all say that now. We weren't saying that even three or four years ago. Oh, I definitely was. Yeah. And you look at them. It's very obvious. But a lot of people are like, no, no, these are so real. Those are the people that still believe in Bigfoot. And that's why I have to sort of approach this cautiously. Because I will admit, scientists don't do this enough. I haven't looked into those. So I don't want to form an opinion about them until I have. I have extensively looked into the small ones. I forget what they're called. They have cute little names and they're little dolls. They're made out of animal bones, human bones, backward llama skulls. They're put together. I've been looking at these long enough that I remember when they were held together by pieces of wire and metal. I think they didn't even try to really hide that. You X-ray, I'm like, no, Jesus Christ. But then we moved away from that to like, oh, they're using better materials to hide the fact that they're sticking these together as little dolls. And now, fortunately, we've at least moved past to the point where most people are just focusing on these big ones, with the fingers and the toes. And the elongated skulls, again, I don't want to speak to those because I haven't looked into it enough. I don't have an informed opinion. But the little dolls, one thing that concerns me that I think is a red flag, is that the little dolls that are now convention or stood to be fake have the same diatomaceous earth characteristics as these. And there's also, I think if they really want to prove these are real, do more to highlight the provenience of them in archaeology. The way that we understand the way things are related is by doing a massive, as I've mentioned earlier, very boring survey of how things are located in three-dimensional space and over time. I think there's a problem with that, is that some of these people have lied about where they got them because they're essentially grave robbing. They're grave robbing. Exactly. And that's a big problem. And an ethical issue that needs to be addressed, too. But so, like, as an example, the rising star cave, Homo Nellidi, they did, you know, Lee Berger, who's actually, I guess, my academic brother, because we had the same PhD advisor. He was at Ohio State when he was my advisor, and he was at Chohanna Spurg University of Amsterdam's friend in Chohanna Spurg for him. But this rising star cave, very meticulously, hard to get to, you know, really hard. They had to lose like 50 pounds to even get down in here to see his own site. But they map it out, they study where everything is, where it comes from, and they publicly release that information. Yeah. Right. To get into, but we have a very deep knowledge of the provenience of all of the artifacts and the features and the remains at this site. We're not getting that with these mummies. And that, that troubles me with the issue of the diatomaceous earth being painted on, and it kind of makes it seem like they did these slits in the eyes on purpose. To the mummies? Yeah. Doesn't it seem like they kind of went like this with like a panoramic sheet again? Can I see some images of them? Did I close? Yeah. Yeah. I never saw that. It didn't seem like that to me. It seemed like there's a little slit. That's their eyelids closed. Yeah. But they wouldn't have eyelids with them. Why do we know that? I mean, you take off the diatomaceous earth and you see, I guess. Right. But why would we think they don't have eyelids? Oh, no. I'm saying that maybe they do when they were alive. Well, I mean, we see grays or what, you know, people describe as grays. But these seems a little bit different than what people describe as grays. It seems like. I mean. It's definitely intentional cranial modification. They have all the telltale signs of. Yeah. So I actually want to have my questions on my camera. It's not possible that they have a totally different design skull. Oh, yeah. If there are some sort of extraterrestrial absolutely. Right. But I'm saying like, when. And this happens all over the world and it happened in that region of Peru, too, that they were manipulating children's skulls that Maya did at the Do you need fingerprints? Look at that. Yeah. Like I said, I don't have an opinion about these. But here's the question about. Let me just summarize the modification of skulls. Were they modifying skulls to try to emulate these people? Exactly. Exactly. That's the question. That's one of the actual scientific explanations for it. There's this paper by Gertz and in Gertz and from 1995, where they interviewed people, said, "Why are you doing this?" Because they were still doing it long enough into modern times that we could ask them. We could interview them. And one of the reasons is because the gods instructed them to do this. Who are the gods, again, this comes back to that. And what is the end result of this intentional cranial modification is that they have the larger, more gray alien type skulls. So yeah, I would absolutely agree that that's probably a part of it. I don't have an opinion about the big ones. The little ones pissed me off and then everybody pissed me off more when I told them they were bullshit. Well, we should show people. Yeah. For context. For context. Yeah. And they brought these out at that, you know, Mexican Congress. And the guy who brought it out had been hoaxing with other things, right? Didn't even have a history in the song. I mean, look at. She's got a little dress on her. And these are an extreme version. There's some other ones that. Look a little better. Yeah. But they do look fake. When I look at that, I'm not interested in that. Exactly. And that's what I was calling out back, you know, five years back. It goes back a little bit, Jamie. Um, below the tridactyl until you get to that one right there, like the one next to your cursor. To the right. Yeah. That looks so rigid and stiff and fake. That's one of them. Like, why is it so straight and flat? Like, that doesn't make any sense. Why is it shoulders built? Like, that looks fake as fuck. That looks like a doll. There's issues. But the tridactyls. Now, click an image on one of the tridactyls. I mean, these were called tridactyls, too. That's why it was. Right. But look at that thing. That's weird. I mean, that's much more consistent with a living thing. Yeah. One of the criticisms was that these things couldn't move. Like, that little doll with a straight rib cage, like the legs, which we can identify as specific animals, they're like flipped around, they're just stuck together, like, these things couldn't walk. Right. There's a form follows function aspect of these that just doesn't make any sense. And the list goes on. I actually, in that crypto-terrestrial paper where we broke in and ate all the mushrooms, I actually published a critique of these things in that paper, um, but just talking about these little ones. I think those little ones were people trying to make copies of those things, because they were probably selling them to wealthy investors or wealthy, you know, enthusiasts. Yeah. Because, like, if one of those things were for sale and some guy from Saudi Arabia was like, "I want one in my home," and, you know, he gave them $100 million, like, for sure, that thing would vanish. And then, everybody's going to find out and start making more. Right. Right. Of course. Well, stupid fake ones. And, unfortunately, that did lead to grave robbing, which is a crime and really sad, but it also does a great grave for sure. But there's also such a small amount of excavation that it makes you ponder, like, how many of these are there right now that we have not discovered? Like, is it possible that this is one of many that are out there in Peru right now where you can't find them? And also, why Peru? And why the Naska lines, the Naska lines are absolutely fascinating. It's artwork that you can only see from the sky. Like, what motivation do people, a thousand plus years ago, at least, have to make artwork that you can only see from the sky? Yeah. And especially if you, I mean, the obvious thing would be that they're trying to get these advanced beans that make them come, come down from the sky and, like, interact with them again. Like, who wouldn't? But a lot of, a lot of contactees are really upset about what happens. Willie Strieber is a great example. This goes for a lot of people, but he felt violated. He felt raped the first time. And then over time, he missed them and wanted them to come back. And that's what we find over and over. One of the best resources currently is the Dr. Grimitchell-Free study that interviewed thousands of contactees and abductees, and there's these common themes across these different cases, and one of them is that people, 85% of people who interacted with a more human-like entity, enjoy their experience. And that's another thing that we have to combat with the stigma and this forced shame that comes with talking about this. And what has happened in TV and movies over the years is that we have this sense that abductions are horrifying and everyone's picked up and probed and hurt. That does happen, but most people based on what contactees actually say, it was a benign or enjoyable experience. Well, they're probably terrified because it's so strange. It probably freaks you out. It's the ontological shock aspect, but they also found that with repeated contact, once that ontological shock goes away, it's like, "Whoa, that was kind of cool, actually. I wish I could have more of that." That makes sense. And then people come to enjoy it, you know? That makes sense. You know, I talked about this on Jesse Michael's show and I talked about it here. I had a very strange dream. That was a great interview, by the way. Thank you. That was cool. I love Jesse. He's awesome. And he's the best. Can we talk about your dream, too, by the way? That's what I was just going to talk about. Oh, no shit. Yeah. That's what I said. I talked about it on Jesse and I talked about it here. That dream was the most realistic dream I've ever had in my life. It is a problem and that dream is a couple months ago now. And I think any recounting of that dream is essentially me recounting my recounting of the dream. I think it's weird. But what I do remember was it was the most vivid dream I have ever had in my life and that I could not go back to sleep, which is really rare. I am a good sleeper. I'm always go, go, go. And by the time it's time to go to bed, I fucking crash. I'm easy to do. So for me to not be able to go back to sleep was so strict. I mean, wide awake, just lying in bed, I mean, fully awake for an hour. I'm waiting for it to dissipate and I'm like, this isn't going away. I'm just going to go work out. So I just went to the gym and just tried to like think about like what just happened. Why was that so real? One of the things about it was they were shocking me and then laughing. They were trying to relax me. They were trying to get me to at least my perception of it in the dream was they were trying to get me to calm down from the shock of interacting with these things that aren't human. They were human like. They almost seemed like their skin coloration was like like us, but like maybe a little more tan, like a little more, like not tan, but like a yellow, yeah, more yellow than tan. And they had, it looked like clothing, but the clothing was the same color as their skin, but the clothing wasn't distinctive. It was like almost like a rash guard that they were wearing and they were very slender. And what's a rash guard? A rash guard is like what surfers wear, you know, like they wear, it's like a stretchy material that's skin tight that goes on your body and it keeps you from getting scratched up by stuff. It keeps you from getting rashes, you know, you wear it on your legs, you see surfers do it. But when they roll, we wear rash guards, so show them what a rash guard looks like. And that's, I had a whole suit of that. That's what I was like. So that's a jack guy with a rash guard on. These things were not jacked and there was no creases, there was no, there was no lines that indicated that was cloth, but I think they had a humanoid form, like arms, legs, but very thin, very thin like Michael Jackson, like super slender, like genderless, genderless Michael Jackson, like the old days, when he, you know, just really thin, like really thin and I had no sense of what they felt like men to me. Maybe it was because of the way they were joking, they were like, they were like, yeah, just joking around. Which is a very male thing. You wouldn't expect a nurturing female. Maybe a fun chick? Yeah. But whatever it was, they were talking to me without talking to me and there was some sort of communication that I was trying to absorb, where they were telling me to relax and telepathically and they move in their mouths. No, they weren't moving their mouths, but they were able to smile at me. Which is what they did when they, but I don't remember, I don't even really remember teeth. I just remember it being so weird, so weird that them, them scaring me and they're going, ha, I just wasn't going to round. Like was like, I'm like, I got it. I was like, okay, I get it. You want me to calm down and then they were telling me, just relax, just relax and try to take this in. It didn't last for very long. I don't think it changed their heart to the same thing. But after that, like when they were saying, take this in, where they're talking about being there in the environment or they communicate in something. I got the distinct impression that this was a first meeting. That's what it felt like. You come. Like maybe we'll see you again. Or we won't. But I want to let you know that, like if you wanted to introduce someone to a life form from somewhere else and you wanted them to have prolonged exposure to it, I would imagine you'd want to do it briefly and shockingly where it felt really weird and that at the end of it, they're not even sure if it really happened at all. And then slowly, over a long period of time, when the person gets to adapt and they make a decision, it's time. It's just like what we were talking about with the ontological shock. Get past that. Then you can move on with whatever it is. Because it was very brief. Very, very shocking and very brief. Well, I mean, was it though, because when you're in a dream state, time and space kind of get manipulated anyway, is not possible that you are actually interacting for a longer time. Or do you mean just from the start to finish was like, here we are, I'm going to fuck with you for a little bit. And then it's over. Well, that's what it felt like when I woke up. So when I woke up, it felt like it happened so quickly and then it was over. But I don't know. You know, I don't know. I mean, I was asleep for, it was like three in the morning. So I was probably asleep for, I probably went to bed at like 11, something like that. So I wasn't asleep for very long. Maybe I went to bed a little later. I don't remember. But what I do remember was the shock of it was, it was different than any other dream I'd ever had. Where it was like, like, this is, this is a real thing. And it was in a corridor and the corridor was weirdly lit. Like not lit in any way, like, oh, there's a light and the light is casting light. It was like the, it was weird. The walls and ceiling. But it was felt not normal. It felt like some completely different way of lighting things. I mean, I will mention just from doing a bunch of research on this that one of the most commonly described things about people being in UFOs is the light. They described the light emanating from the walls, the ceiling everywhere without like a point. Did it feel like that? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it almost, was there a curvature to the whole way at all? It was. It almost had like an organic aspect to it. It was people said that about UFOs too. Oh, really? Yeah. That almost seems like a living entity unto itself. Yeah, well, I mean, organic, like almost like I was in a cave or something like that. It was a part of Earth. It was weird. It was really weird. And it was really vivid. Like the beings were very vivid. I can't remember how many of them there were. I don't think there was three or four. I don't think you should write it off as just a dream. Like, I mean, well, most likely it was just a dream. But what is, but what is just a dream? That's the question. That's where it gets weird. I have come to think that that is almost the baseline real reality more than this. Oh, boy. Yeah. Sorry. That's kind of what I wanted to talk about. Oh, you just cracked me. Well, maybe. So I had a really insane experience in 2022 that forced me to start thinking about what this is, what this physical reality is. Because I was shown. This is 2022. I call it a mini-abduction. I was taken up, I was at a UFO conference. Actually, the same one where I was watching that with James Fox before it came out the Virginia case. So I was taken up to this room that no one was in. I was taken on in the balcony. I wasn't allowed to leave by who, a woman who I knew, but loosely. Basically I was downstairs. She saw or they saw through her because this gets really weird. That I was out of money. I was trying to get a beer at the bar for like 12 bucks or whatever they charge you with these things. It was a Halloween dance party. This was October 14th, 2022. I was out of money. She comes up and says, "Hey, I have a key to the VIP room. We had just come down from there where they hosted a meet and greet with the speakers. I was one of the speakers." So we went up there to get beers, stuff in my pockets. We're going to bring some to our friends. They didn't have to pay $12 for a beer. And then she's like, "Well, you can't go. My friend Eric wants to talk to you." I was like, "Who's Eric?" "Don't worry, you'll like him. Just keep saying that over and over. Don't worry, you'll like him. You'll like him." So at some point we end up on the balcony and I'm just sitting there and give up. I'm like, "Fine. I guess I'm just waiting for this Eric guy, wherever the hell that is." So eventually Eric comes in, pulls his chair up right into me. Like his knee is in my dick, straight up right here. I start to get that. I'm very much fight, the fight or flight thing. And I'm like, you know, pit like with a fox this guy. He's a total stranger, never seen him in my life. And his face is right here. He says, "I sense that you're angry about this, but I need to be this close for this to work." And then it just all went away, perfectly fine. And they tell me something that was that same thing that they did to you and that dream. Something that they knew would shock me and make me pay attention. So about two weeks before this, I'd been washing dishes and I just decided I wanted to quit all of this. I was sick of doing TV shoots and podcasts. I just, I was exhausted and want to be home with my family. That was it. That was just a thought. Just while you were washing dishes, my wife's right behind me didn't tell her anything. Very next thing he says is we know you've been thinking about quitting lately and we'd really prefer you not do that yet. Complete stranger. I'd never seen this guy in my life. And he knows a thought in my head. But you had while washing dishes from two weeks? privately. I was just like, how could you possibly know that? And they said, I'm going to use they because they used they. I wasn't talking to this guy, I was talking to some sort of entity or entities through him. And they said, once you know who we are, you'll know how we know that. And I'd never had a telepathic moment in my life. But I thought future humans, it's all I could come up with because like, this is what I'm doing. They didn't answer the question, but they did say, so you know how we did that and I just go, oh, it doesn't fucking answer the question. But in that moment, it placated me enough to move on. And there was a number of things that transpired. We're out on this balcony. I'm in shock. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? How does this complete stranger know my thoughts? The conversation evolved. I was loud asked questions. They're like, we know you're frustrated. We know you're upset with this. We'd really like you to keep going. Is there anything you need? Is there anything we can help with? I was like, no, I'm quite happy in general. I'm just exhausted. I don't want to do this anymore. Like, yeah, we get that. We get that. We get that. And then I was loud asked questions. I asked three different questions. And people started to come back to this room because the party was wrapping up downstairs and they're starting to come back to the VIP room where all the free booze was. So that makes sense. And we're out on this balcony. These three women come out at one point. And this man who now is like just bright here, like eyes right here, I can't move anymore. Like I lost the ability to turn my head. I'm just like laser focused said, can you close the door behind you? That was it. And these three women turned and perfect unison walked back and closed the door. Nobody came out the rest of the time. We were out there eventually got to the point where they're like, we came here because we need to put three things in your brain for some future time or times. I forget which they said, do we have your permission to do that? And over the course of this interaction, I started to remember them. And I started to feel like a little bitch about complaining about being tired, traveling, hotels, flights, you know, and I was like, oh, that's right. I know you. I know who you are. Not that guy. I've never seen him in my life. But I know you and there's a familiarity. And this was like the breaking down of me to be able to get past that, to do the things that needed to be done. They told me what would happen. They said that I would continue looking. My eyes would be open, but this darkness would come from top to bottom and they would put things in my brain. And I would see it coming in, but I wouldn't have access to it once they were done. Do you agree? They're very polite, extremely polite. Free will was conserved. Do you agree to this? Are you okay with this? And again, at that point, I remembered them. I recognized them. I was like, yes, absolutely. I agree to this. That's exactly what happened. Eyes went dark. Still wide open. Eyes went dark. And I see this massive, fast stream of information, just going straight into my brain. It was exhausting. It didn't hurt, but it was like really overwhelming. I have no idea how long they were doing this. You said you see it pulling in your brain? Yeah. I could see. I don't remember it, but I could see and understand the moments because it wasn't just me. At one point, this conversation switched from being vocal to telepathic. We just started communicating telepathically. It was so seamless that I didn't even really notice it happened and eventually I'm like, wait, we're not moving our mouths. We're just talking with our brains. But the woman who brought me up there in the first place was standing in my left with her hand on my shoulder. She would occasionally go, did you get that? Did you see that? That was important. Did you get that? I was watching it too and saw it coming in as it was coming through this individual in front of me and I could see it at that moment. I'd be like, huh? Uh-huh, uh-huh. Like I understood it. It all comes in. I have no idea how long I was in that mesmerized state, but after they finished that entire room had five times more people in it, there was like probably 20 people in this room. All looking as like, what the fuck is happening to masters out there, you know, like what is going on? They lifted me out of this site return from bottom to top, the opposite of what happened before. And I stand up, turn, walk through this room. It felt like my head was a bowling ball, like I could barely even lift my head. And this woman, I think one of the ones that came out when we were on the balcony, put her hand on my shoulder so they're, are you okay? And I was like, uh-huh, walk past her, fortunately I was on that same floor on the fourth floor of this hotel, walk down, lay back on the bed with my feet still on the floor, all my clothes on and just slept in that position for about 13 hours. What? Didn't wake up at all. And when I woke up, I started crying uncontrollably. Like my, I could not stop crying. I wasn't sad. I wasn't scared. I had a memory of what happened the night before, but it was kind of fuzzy. And then as it started to come back more and more and more, I started to be like, oh shit. That was real. You know? My first thought was like, oh, that wasn't real. And then I was allowed to remember all of it. Everything before they put me in that state is like crystal clear in my mind. And I wrote it all down not long after that just to make sure I had, you know, so it wasn't me recounting me recounting like you were saying. So there was actually like a written transcript of how everything happened. I should have known about that. It is probably done now, but I know that my recollection of it is pretty accurate. My recollection, my memory, and I know that it was very brief. Like what the encounter seemed very brief. It might have gone longer than I think it did. Well, they might have done the same thing to you. That's why I mentioned it. They might have done the same thing where you weren't necessarily allowed to remember the things that were done. Like they told me that we're going to do this, are you okay with it? And then missing time. I have no idea how long they were doing that. And then in a dream state, like it could have been dreams often skewed time, regardless. But maybe if, let's just say hypothetically, you were on a craft. They were breaking you down in the same way they did me to try to get you, whether now or in the future, like you said, it might have been an initial encounter where there's something more going to happen later. But maybe there was more to it that they just didn't let you have conscious memories of. Like they told me I wouldn't remember what they put my brain. And I don't. Just like this, this is what blows my mind. It's fucking insane. It's my brain. Right. They put things in there, the ability that they can even do that in the first place is nuts. But I don't have access to it. It's really wild. How do you know it's in there then? I watched it come in. Right. I know it is. And they told me that it was going to come in and I saw it happen. Right. But once it's in. Right. But does that make any sense? Or about it, if they're giving you information, what is the point given so many information that they can access? Well, that's what they said though. They said four time or times in the future. It's time released. It's timestamped. At some point, whatever that was, that they thought was so damn important to many abduct me at this conference and fuck with me for about five months afterwards, is going to come out at some point. Have you ever considered the possibility that someone dropped acid into your beer? Yeah. I have. Because that would be such a cruel thing to do to someone at a UFO conference. Problem is. And then fuck with them and say, sit down. Look in my eyes. I'm going to give you information now. You're like, oh my god. It's common. Information's common. It is. Problem is I've done acid over 200 times. So I know exactly what that's. Maybe there's a flashback. That's what they say. That was the thing they always, I never heard of one fucking person getting a flashback by the way. I know. I feel robbed, dude. Like I was told we crack our back and we're going to get the flashback when you drive in your car, man, and you fucking run into a bus full of kids. It's like how they told us everybody is going to give us free drugs on the playground. Nobody ever gave me free drugs. No drugs. No, it was not. I had actually only had two beers the entire night. I was completely sober. So it was some kind of experience that was very anomalous. Extremely, yeah. And so here's another aspect of it. They knew my future. They knew everything about me. They knew my thoughts. That's how they broke me down. And they even knew where I was going to be the next day. They saw that it fucked me up and I was not doing well. Like I wasn't crying so sad or scared or anything. It was just a physiologic response to whatever they did. I'm walking down through the main corridor to give a book to a friend of mine, John Dover, Navajo Ranger. And that same guy comes around the corner, comes down, puts his hand on my shoulder, says, "Are you okay?" I was not okay. But I go, "Oh." And they fixed me somehow. His touch on my shoulder released all of the whatever was messing me up. They knew where I would be at that exact moment for him to come there. He wasn't part of this conference. He had nothing to do with this. He was used to some sort of vessel or some sort of medium for this end. Whatever it means, I don't know, because the things haven't come out of my brain yet. But there are times stamped for the future. I completely believe you. It's not a belief. But it's not a belief. They did it in a way where other people were involved, so I didn't even get to pretend. Oh, don't. What I'm saying is that I'm saying I believe your story from you. I have no information on it, obviously, other than you telling me. I believe you. It sounds like this is a real experience. But most people hearing something like this will automatically go, "Get the fuck out of here." And they did. But I want those people to imagine what it would be like if that happened to you. For me, it's easy, because mine was in a dream, and I'll tell you it's a dream. I think it was a dream. It was the most vivid dream I've ever had, but it was a dream. It was really weird. I couldn't shake it. It really freaked me out. I had to talk about it. At the moment, I got on a podcast next. I was like, "This is something that I have to bring up right away," because it's just- And thank you for doing that, by the way. Well, it's great to talk about this. It takes so long to talk about this. But I was talking to Brett Weinstein. It's an evolutionary biologist. It's not the topic to talk about, but I'm like, "I have to tell you this." It was one of the weirdest things that I've experienced a lot of weird shit about a weird life. That was the weirdest. It was weird. It took me a year to talk about this. I went down. Let me finish here. Oh, sorry. I didn't know of your- This is what I- For people that are very skeptical, I want you to imagine yourself in a position where something like this happens to you, you're a regular guy, you're a mechanic for Chevrolet, whatever you are. This thing happens to you, and what do you do now? What do you do with this? And who the fuck is going to believe you? You wouldn't have believed you, so why would you- You don't even want to tell people, it's that crazy. And if these things are happening, they're not happening to seven billion people, right? They're happening to select individuals for whatever unknown reason all over the place. And if that is happening to one in a million, one in a hundred thousand, whatever it is, over time, these people have all of these similar stories, I get being skeptical. I get it. I'm a skeptical person with a lot of stuff. I go back and forth. I'm a believer, and then I'm like, shut up. I'm with you. I'm with you. But you gotta imagine what you would do if that happened to you. If these are unique experiences- That's a great point. Unique experiences, totally novel experiences that most people don't have, trying to describe them, and everybody who I've ever talked to, including Travis Walton, who's, by the way, very believable. Very believable. The way they describe it, it has that weight to it. Like I know no one's gonna fucking believe me. I know this is crazy, but I have to tell you, I have to tell you that this happened. I have to imagine being Travis Walton, that's what I want people to think about, the people that are very skeptical. I'm really glad he brought that up because a lot of people don't think about that part, how hard it is, not just to have some crazy shit like that happen, but how hard it is to then talk about it, and subject to yourself to the ridicule and the scorn that comes with it. Of course. And the possibility that you might just be some disinformation artist, just some bullshit artist that's sent down here to muddy up the narrative. Absolutely. Absolutely. And if I hadn't, yeah, I don't know, I have thought about that. Like what if, you know, there's some sort of mind control thing that the government has or whatever. Have you ever heard the recordings of Betty and Barney Hill? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jamie, see if we can find those. Yeah. They're kind of trippy. Trippy. I don't think that's the case in this situation because of the way it happened, how it happened, their uber politeness and the fact that I was allowed to leave my body and see and remember things that I normally wouldn't. Well, also, taking into the context of who you are the time we live in, Betty and Barney Hill, I believe it was in the 1950s. They're an interracial couple in New England. So they have a lot of anxiety just on that. Yeah. Imagine being a pioneering interracial couple in the 1950s. I mean, the fucking racism they must have experienced must have. So the level of anxiety that they must have slept with, thinking the KKK is going to show it at any point in time and burn a fucking cross on their lawn. So you've got all that, too. Then there's a completely novel experience where no one has talked about this before. Two of the first people to talk about that. They are the OGs. So there's a tape of Dr. Benjamin Simon and patient Barney Hill. Play this. It's right over my right. And I try to maintain control so Betty cannot tell her scared. God, I was scared. It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. This is 1961. Wild. And like you say, you know, that's actually I haven't thought about that. I did a whole case study on Betty and Barney Hill in my second book and you really thought about that. Like it's already hard to talk about stuff. They're the OGs. They're the first one. Interracial couple coming out publicly describing these horrific events. Also these events in 1961 when no one had heard anything about that before. There's so many compounding factors that make me want to give them even more credit for being honest about it. And I mean, that's what that's what's important. It was really hard for me to talk about this. It really fucked me up for like, I'm going to say five months, but it was way more than that. And the reason I bring this up is because of your dream and the shock factor. And what it means for conceptualizing reality, this physical reality versus what we write off as being dreams of dream reality. I have come to think that that is baseline that consciousness is fundamental. It's foundational. And this physical reality is built off of it. And I've heard a lot of other scientists talking about that lately. So I think one of the questions that gets me is why does everything dream? Everything. Every living organism dreams. And it almost seems like we're here for the universe to learn about itself and to have these experiences because it's sourced, there's nothing, there's just love and energy. That's it. And I've gotten to experience that. I was thinking the shower the other day that I feel lucky because I've gotten to have near-death experiences without actually dying because it's a very similar thing. And I go to that same place that people describe in these near-death experiences. That's real. It's the most real. But you don't get to have divorces and people dying and car crashes and the shit that makes this life suck. But also being the only way that the universe can learn about itself. And then every night, what do we do? We empty the hippocampus and upload that information. Near-death experiences, people describe that review, the life review. So we upload it every night. And at the end of your life, it's like, upload the whole thing all at once, go to a different body in the next time. I think your dream is just as real as anything we experience here, if not more real. Let's end it with that. Thank you. Thank you. That was a lot of fun. This has been a lot of fun. Can I tell you one more thing? Sure. You can cut this out if you want. No, leave it in. One of my favorite things about this lately has been how many comedians I get to talk to. Like the last dinner, I got, I did an interview with Mark Gagnon, I did an interview with Dave Foley. And from back in the day, news radio, like I grew up watching, that was one of my favorite shows back in the day. Dave used to make fun of me when I was in UFOs back in the news video days. Not anymore, man. He's all in. He's super into it. I love it. No, it's great, man. I don't know. Dan St. Germain, Sean O'Donnell, like just a lot of the people I've been talking to lately are comedians. And I actually wanted to ask you why? Why are so many comedians into this UFO phenomenon? I think more than like most other genres or professions. Most comedians are into interesting things. And comedians don't have to worry about the stigma of being thought of as a fool. We are professional fools. You know, if someone says I'm a moron, I'm like, okay, what do we do? This is how smart I am. I'm exactly this smart. I'm not pretending to be any smarter than I am. If you think I'm a moron, that's fine. I don't care. Like my reputational integrity doesn't depend on whether or not I'm an idiot or whether you think I'm an idiot. It doesn't matter. So if I think something, I can just talk about it. So like if my dream, if I was a political correspondent and I wanted people to believe me, I probably wouldn't tell that dream. I'd probably just tell my friends, like it was fucking weird, and I'd leave it alone. I wouldn't treat it as like something that I needed to get out there. You have the freedom to tell the story and express it. I'm a clown. You know? I mean comedians also are really observant. What we like interesting things. Yeah. Exactly. And you observe those interesting things and can talk about them and interesting ways. Most people like interesting things, but most people are saddled down by a structure. And that structure could be the office politics in the place that you work. It could be whatever your cultural or whatever your political ideology is, whatever your thing is. Like you get stuck in this structure where you have to think about things in a very specific way and talk about things in a very specific way, some things are shunned. In the comedy world, those shunned things are ammunition like that's where our weapons for comedy. Like I want to talk about things that are fucking weird. You know, I want to talk about the things that make you go, oh yeah, I didn't want to say that, but I've been thinking the same kind of thing, but that might be real. That might be what's going on. That is what's discouraged in polite society is encouraged as a comedian. That's awesome. So that's probably why we all love UFOs. That's cool. But there's a lot of us that are skeptical. I've had conversations with people that don't believe in any, oh, I don't believe in any conspiracy. Well, that's just silly. You're just coddling yourself. You know, people only see what they are able to believe. They only see what makes them comfortable or they try to only see what makes them comfortable. And a lot of people, I think Nietzsche said that people don't want to know the truth because it will destroy their comfortable sense of reality. I totally bastardized that quote, but it's something like that, you know. I think that's why people get so paranoid when they smoke weed. Yeah. That's all the blinders melt away, you know, like, I'm a big proponent of the filter theory. You know, I think there's all this weirdness all around us all the time and it just takes a little masculine or DMT or psilocybin. And it removes that filter and you see the world for what it is, which becomes much more dreamlike. I really do think that that essence of our consciousness is the root of all of this. Yeah, I think you're correct. I think it's the hotline to the universe. That's what I think it is. I think we're, you know, in order to do this task, whatever it is, my belief is this task is to create artificial God. I think that we're in the middle of that process right now. I think that's our task. There's a lot of factors that I point to and they make sense. Materialism. Why are we so infatuated with materialism? Because materialism ensures technological innovation. It ensures that this being is going to make better stuff all the time. Well, if that being makes better stuff all the time, it's not hard to extrapolate. You take this a few years down the road, you have an artificial intelligent life force. And you have an artificial intelligent life force that has sentience and creativity and is capable of making a far better artificial intelligent life force radically quickly. Different kinds of energy sources, before you know it, it's a God. And we're just the propagators of it. Exactly. We're the bees. We make the hive. We don't even know why. I call us the electronic caterpillar. We're making this little cocoon. We don't know what the fuck we're doing. We're turning into some sort of a butterfly, some sort of a superior being. Following the script. I think that might be one of the reason why beings from somewhere else are interested in us because they recognize there's a process going on. And perhaps this process doesn't go on everywhere. Perhaps these beings are embedded with the type of consciousness that doesn't allow them to seek territorial dominance, that they don't ever evolve these kind of primate instincts that we're saddled down with. Because of our savage background, you know, I mean, you don't know if you ever watched chimp nation on Netflix, amazing doctor, fucking incredible docu-series. Can't recommend it enough. These scientists were embedded with this chimpanzee pack, I guess, for 20 years. So the chimpanzees had completely acclimated to them being around. So long as they always stayed 20 yards away, never had any food, never looking in the eyes. When they approach back up, get out of there, they leave you alone. And so these guys did this for 20 years and they observed chimpanzee behavior and it's like fucking people. Yeah. Just like way more violent. The only other species other than us that's been observed going to war. Going to war having all animal social games with each other, dops, yes, like grooming each other. We're really interesting stuff, but we, so we are saddled down with that programming. And even though I think if we were genetically engineered, they made a superior version of what we used to be as chimpanzees or whatever the cousin of chimpanzee we came from, we're still saddled down. Maybe they weren't. So maybe they don't have this insatiable desire for innovation that leads them to create art. Maybe they're logical enough to realize we can never make AI. AI is a fruitless, it'll remove us. Let's be conscious of how we decide we progress forward so that we can keep our race. But where these beings that control this planet, we create this digital god. It controls us now. We fucked ourselves in a prison of our own design. Maybe they're different than us. Maybe they could recognize that and not fall into that, but they realize we're about to do it. And they go, well, the primates just always do it. The primates always want more fruit. They want more wives. They want bigger cars, bigger houses, newer phones, all that. Keeping up with the Joneses. The hairless upright ones with three hands, especially you got to be able to build stuff for those hands. Even they're curious. So they're always trying to build new things and they communicate so they can store information. It's a mess. It's a beautiful mess though, Joe Rogan. But it's a beautiful mess as opposed to their mess, which is probably telekinetic and telepathic. They could probably operate things with their mind. They probably use their mind to communicate. And so they know what each other's thinking. So there's no room for deception. There's no room for lies. No room for manipulation or sociopathy. We would see it a mile away. And so they've radically shifted what it means to be a living thinking organism. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, ma'am. Dude, thank you so much. Thank you. It was awesome. Thank you. Revelation. The future. Human past. And I really enjoy talking to you, ma'am. This has been super fun. I'm so glad you had me on. This has been my pleasure. It's been great. You can't even want to find you. How do they get you on social media? Yeah. Yeah. I've got a website, MichaelPMasters.com. It's got links to my four-- I have four books, and I just published a kid's book last week. This is on UFOs, too? Yeah. What's it called? It's called Marshmallow in the UFO, a time travel adventure. It's actually a prequel to that one with Jesus throwing up a double bird on the front, which is not child-appropriate at all. Yeah. Doesn't seem like it. All right. There's a bit of a right term, but man, this has been so fun. My pleasure. Thank you for doing that. Really appreciate it. It was fun. All right. [MUSIC PLAYING]