#24 | Shellee Rose - Breaking Generational Trauma & Building the Life She Was Never Given

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Talk Therapy. I'm so happy that you're here. If you are yet to do all the things, like, comment, subscribe. It really supports the show and helps us keep pushing these episodes out. But I can't even say anything else today because I'm very excited for today's guests. We have been cackling like behind the mics. It is none other than my very best friend, Shelley Panada. I would say Panada. Panada. Panada. Panada Rose. Guys, okay, so I need to give you a bit of context before we get into today and just there's no plan of attack. But it really is like, you know my personality through this pod, but you'll see it today because this lady in this other seat is just like twin flame have never experienced something like our friendship. And it's like so deep, but so funny. And shit's pretty fine sometimes. Just say lightly, but you know, we'll just keep it moving. So I can't wait to get into all of that. But for a bit of context, Shelley and I were actually going to start talk therapy together. When was this like two years ago? Two years ago. Yeah, it would have been, yeah, like two years ago. Yeah. So it was like a year and a bit before I started on my own. Yeah. And we were like, yeah, definitely got to plan the pod. And then we just like ghost for like months because our nervous systems were both just so fried and we had like no time. And and then got to the end of the year. And I was like, hey, I might do this. You're like, yeah, let's go go do it. And here we are. So it was going to be a Shelley and Tina show. And you know what? We might circle back around one day. But for now, here we're finally here. Finally. So welcome to the pod. Thanks so much for having me. I feel like I'm like kind of the co coach, but not fully fully. And like Shelley, something about show is like, like I said before, the deepest like most self-aware smart intelligent human. But then I feel like where we clicked from the get go, it's like we're very similar in that. But then we're also just pretty rogue. And like it's like so much, even for you, we'll get into your story. But like you know, one would know the life that you've lived and like what you've walked and stuff. And because of how you are now, it's like, well, you do just make light of life. And you do just maybe in a toxic race of what's myself laugh things off. And you're like, interesting, like probably something to look at there. But that's really what I feel like was such a healing thing for me when we first met. And also where the name talk therapy came from because it was like, well, therapy is talking. Sometimes talking to your best friend is 10 times more productive than a therapy session. Not saying you shouldn't get therapy guys. Do we need to do it? But I remember when Shelley and I met online and we hopped on a call one day. How do we even get on that phone call? I think you just reached out and I'm like, hey, we should jump on a call. Yeah, random for me. So I usually avoid like any new friends, because I'm like, I'm scared. Yeah. But I was like, oh, jump on a call. And we spoke for hours. Like, I think it would have been four hours four hours. And my whole life was processed in that call. Like any trauma that I've ever had. I'd never had like proper therapy really until that call. I was like, I got off thinking, wait a damn minute. My life makes sense. And like, I just felt so seen and so heard and so like supported. And that was just literally life changing. Like, I've never had that. I feel like I've told you that, but maybe not. Yeah, I feel like no, maybe not. No, actually the first time I ever felt like, whoa, someone's got me. Don't make me cry. No, no, no, no, no. But yeah, and that's and that's that and here we are. Here we are. And I'm excited. I am so excited. And I like, I feel like we could go so many different ways. So I'm just going to let you know. Yeah, I'm like, guess, prepare your ear holes because like we might be a bit out the gate in this app. But then we also might cry. Then we also might laugh. Then we also might like, I don't know what else, but it could just go anyway. But let's start with there's so many ways I could go with you. But I just want to hear. I hate to be the elevator pitch guy, but like if you had to just kind of explain the current season of your life, and I guess the life that you have, because for anyone that doesn't know Shelley and just like, you can tell your own story, but you and your husband and with the boys have created an incredible life for yourself. And something that I really love to talk about on the pod is how often you see the current position of anyone in life. And it's so easy to assume that that has just been the way for them or that the way to get to that point was like, quite useful. Maybe it was whatever it was, like whatever the story. And I really want to break down conversations around that so that people realize what they're capable of when they hear it from someone who has created the life that you have against literally every single odd ever. Yeah, definitely. What do I start? Yeah. Well, I think like obviously for anyone who doesn't know me, I have two small children. So four-year-old and a six-year-old, a beautiful husband. And I would say that it probably would have been at least like, I'm going to say like six years ago is when I feel like I stepped into like becoming this version of myself for pretty much the entire like entirety of my life. I've probably had quite toxic habits in the sense of from an external perspective, it looked good and was probably praised. But internally, I was like fighting myself and punishing myself and hating myself. But once I had the boys, I think I just was like, you know what, like I'm going to do everything I possibly can to be the version that I needed for them. And I guess with that, there's just been so much evolution in like who I am, what I stand for, what I tolerate, what I don't and all of those things. And yeah, like I feel like I feel I've always kind of lived with the knowing that I wanted more for myself. And I've always pushed for more and made choices that align with that. But again, I probably would say it wasn't until six or seven years ago that I that came from like a good place, not a toxic place. But I just think that, yeah, I think I've just like, because I have gone through so much, and I think even pre kids, I thought that I wouldn't go through more stuff. And then I went through probably the heaviest having kids. But I think what I've just really come to realize in life is that when you overcome, and I know I've said this too so many times, but when you overcome like the most immense pain, you realize that you like no matter what you're going to be okay. And I think that for me is just so much fuel for more and to create a life that is so deeply on purpose. Because I'm like the things that should have broken me and have, you know, have broken me to some degree. But the things that, you know, should have and and did have also been the things that have allowed me to become the version of myself that I am today, who believes in herself so deeply, because I believe that life, you don't get the life that you want by having everything handed to you and by everything going easy. You get the life that you want by like seeing how fucking shit life can be at times. So I feel like where we currently are now, where we are, like I would say we are living our dream life, like I genuinely could not fault any area of my life at all. But the only reason I've got to that is because I've had to pull myself out of hell. Like literally. Like literally. Yeah. Yeah, I always like, it's your story to tell. So like anything that you feel comfortable with, I guess, sharing with the audience, I've got a bit more context to you and just like, because it's one of those things you hear people say, you know, you've gone through like really hard things and whatever, and it's all relative, but you have just been through. No. And it's like, we'd like look at our last laughing, but like the most just fucked up shit. Fuck up shit. Like, better hear I am gasping myself thinking. It's on the back. It's actually, you know, there's most off. No, like, okay, just like not to make a lot of things. It's like not whatever. The way that we will often hang out with Shelley guys and like she'll just say stuff and we're just like, wait, like, what? It's like, it's just, and it's so like, yeah, just like, it's, I mean, it's like not because it's so, I just, you make such light of it. But I, I feel like I just want to give you in whatever way it feels good. Like to actually just open up about that and like to give the order some context before we go into crack and jokes about. It's like, it's probably not one to crack a joke about. It's like the real where it's like, you just talk about like, you know, the most romantic event in your life, just casually in your friends alone. Yeah. Yeah. No. And they say, I'm sorry, that happened to you. Like, I was just telling a joke. Like, what? It's like, oh, it's so, so true. I guess for context, like, there is so much. And I always, like, I'm always like, where do I even start? Because there has been so many things. And I also don't want to like say in a negative way. Because I think that like the big thing that I want, like the biggest thing that I always say to anyone is like, every single thing in which you experience is pushing it closer to the life in which you want and the person that you need to become in order to have that life. If that's what you choose, you can either choose that as fuel or you can choose that as limitation, excuse and be a victim. But I guess to give like context, I grew up surrounded by addiction. And when I say addiction, like very heavy addiction, I don't want to cry. Yeah, I hate it. And I think like growing up, like growing up, I kind of just naturally took on the mother role or like the responsibility, whether they, whether they That was a coping mechanism or, I think it probably started as a coping mechanism and then just became, you know, the person that everyone relies on. But from a very young age, you know, grew up in quite a very dysfunctional family. I moved in with my dad when I was nine, which I think was like such a pivotal moment in my life because I feel, how do I not? I probably would have gone down a very bad path and probably turned out like, you know, the rest of my family. And realistically, I am the only one who got out of that. Like I am the black sheep that escaped that way of life. And I don't ever want to, you know, speak poorly of anyone because I do love them. And I can't, you know, like everyone has their own choices and who am I to say that their choices are right or wrong or good or bad because what the fuck even is that. And I think it's taken a long time for me to realise that there's obviously illness in that. But yeah, from a very young age, I just became the one who everyone relied on and that just got more prevalent as I got older and became more independent. And I think just with like, you know, any, I think with addiction, it's just nothing ever ends well. And nothing like there's just so much that has come with that, that you know, obviously the depths of what has come with, you know, the addiction and the choices that then have been made as a result of that. I would say that that's like, that's kind of eaten in a nutshell. But then equally, like I said, like what happens when you are dealing with very heavy addiction and the choices in that it's quite brutal. You know, there's obviously overdose. There's a lot of like, just poor choices, poor people, all of those things. And being someone who kind of, from a young age took responsibility and cleaned up the mess, that was really evident throughout all of my teen years and early adult years, I guess. It wasn't really until I had the boys and had kids of my own where I was like, hang on a minute, like this is where I draw the line. And up until that point, I probably, like I wouldn't have had any boundaries. I was always throwing money, rescuing at the hospitals, all the things. And I would say that the boys have been like the best in, you know, like that has completely changed my life in, from the perspective of like, I've actually been able to implement boundaries now, where it doesn't impact me as much, still impacts me. But then I think there's just such a multitude of other things. Like that's obviously like the growing up. But then all of the like, you know, there's all the stuff that blaze and like, there's just, I feel like there's just been so many other things that I've just taken so many hits and so many hits. And we joke about it. And it's like, kind of laughable when you really think about how much there is, you're like, the fuck. But then equally, yeah, like there is not one part of me that would ever take that back, which I think is really, like if I really sit and think about all of it, would I, like would I change it? Probably not. And it's taken me a long time to get to that point. Yeah, I've never heard you say that. Yeah, just crazy. But like I would not have the marriage I do. Yeah, no. I would not have like, you know, I wouldn't have my health the way that I do. I wouldn't have the mindset. I wouldn't have the resilience. I wouldn't have, like I wouldn't have you, you know, to mean like there's so many things that I wouldn't have had. Have I not chosen to overcome that in a way that actually leads me closer to where I want to be? Yeah. And you're such a testament to that. Thank you for sharing, because I just love you, you know, things and we get to crying. I mean, I mean, I would cry all the time, you know? Crying tin. But that such a testament to you and how you lead your life where like and so many people can take away from that, whether you've never get anything similar or to the same extent or whatever it may be. But you really do just choose like every day to make the choice that is going to be right for you in your future. And like you said, it wasn't even when you were younger, probably not necessarily the easy choice, like being surrounded by so much, the easiest thing would probably just to be followed in the footsteps of what you know. And not pick up the pieces and let it crumble and crumble with it. And for you now, you still live with it every single day from literally like things will still come up, but then also you live with what you were robbed of as a little girl. And especially having kids of your own, I can imagine like how much that comes up. Yeah. But you know, and it's like that doesn't go away, but you still every single day lead your life. And I think people so easily go, well, if someone, if anyone looked at your life now again, that they'd be like, they are killing it. Like you are absolutely killing it. You've got the most and not at the expense of a relationship. Your marriage is incredible. The boys are amazing. You're doing so much with your careers, with your investments, with your future. And people could easily assume, oh, well, it all goes as no problem now, but you're like, you know, every single day and not that it's a bad thing or a negative thing, but I live with that. And I live with the grief of it. And I live with the reminders of it. And I live with the present experience of it that you're still choosing you and your family and your husband. Yeah. But I think that that is life right. And I think the thing that, the thing that I believe is that in life is never linear. Like, you know, I both know that it's, and I don't believe it's ever easy either because choose your heart. And it's like there is always, you take the easy path, you're going to have to face the heart in somewhere or another. Whereas if you choose the hard, then, you know, you're going to inevitably have more ease. But I do think that, yeah, like, life is governed by your choices at the end of the day. And you can either see life is happening to you or life happening for you. And it's like the cause and effect, right? And, like, nothing changes, you know, like it's like you, if you live in a victim, like if you live your life as a victim, you're just going to state a victim. If you live your life knowing that shit was hard and that, you know, things were unfair and things were cruel and that hurt and that's painful and that's all other things, like it's like one thing I do, you know, I do want to preface just, obviously kind of speaking to the, the hard that I have experienced and how I'm grateful for that. That's not from a toxic positivity lens of like me not acknowledging that, that was far. Because there's been so much grief and there's been so much pain and there's been so much work and healing that I've had to do in order to get to a point now where I'm okay with, you know, not having family members in my life. And I'm okay with having, you know, a body that doesn't function normally and having to be on infusions every eight weeks. I'm okay with like, you know, I'm okay with all of those big life things that have had a significant impact on me as a human, but I also am like not naive or not I wouldn't even say it's naive, but I'm like, I also feel like I've got two ways to look at it. And it's like, if I continue to look at like fuck that was hard, fuck that is not fair, you know, like why me? Well, then I'm never going to get to where I want to be and I'm never going to have the things that I want to have. If I can look at it and go, you know what? Like, yeah, that was shit, that was unfair. But equally, I'm still the creator, I still get to choose, I still get to create what's right in front of me and do the things that are going to yield a return that supports what I'm wanting to build. Then like, that's on me, you know, and I think that, yeah, like it's so easy for people, it's so easy for people to look outside of themselves. And it's so easy to put blame on everyone and it's so easy to project that, oh, well, it's just easy for them or they've just had it better or they've had, you know, XYZ. But I'm like, for as long as you're looking outside of yourself, for as long as you're looking at somebody and, you know, projecting onto them that they've had it easier or whatever, you're mitigating responsibility. And the only reason I have everything in which I do, the husband, the marriage, the health, the investments, like, and take all that away, like the fulfillment, the love, the connection, like, you know, strip me of everything. I still would be so fulfilled within my life because that's the responsibility I've taken and that's what I've created. And I think that that's where people go wrong is like, if you want to have the things in which you want to have, then there is nothing that you can do other than take responsibility. Because otherwise it's just wishing and hoping and probably, you know, blaming and projecting, which isn't getting you anywhere. Yeah. And it's so, it's not saying that things aren't valid right. And I think people maybe struggle to hold true, it's like, no, like you mentioned, what happened was cruel. And it's like, you were the victim and that was unfair. And you were the victim in that situation, but there's a difference between being it and then continuing to play it for yourself. Absolutely. And I think until you actually realise the game in remaining the victim, to a situation. where you very much were, you're never actually going to overcome it because, you know, it's like, on a conscious level, people can come and say, "I want more for myself and I know there's more available to me and I'm going to make it happen." But then as soon as things get hard, they go, "Oh, but it's hard because this happened to me and that's why I'm the way that I am," versus, but if I couldn't use that, and again, I don't want anyone to feel as low, this is like invalidating your truth because it's not, but it's like when you are someone who you wouldn't listen to this podcast if you weren't like, "All right, I'm getting after it. There's more for me like we're getting it done." So it's like, "How quick are you to use what has happened as the reason as to why you continue to make the same choices today?" And there's going to be days where it shits harder and you can't actually make that choice and that's okay. And again, your testament to that of like, but the more you just show up on the days that you can, the more those days continue to compound, the more you get to a point where you can't even imagine not showing up for yourself. But there is so much secondary gain in pulling on what's happened in the past to justify your decisions in the present. Yeah, yeah, like, could not agree more. And yeah, like, and I think it is one of those things, because it's not like, it's never to invalidate your experience. And I think for, you know, people who do suffer quite a lot of trauma or, you know, like, you and I would do anything not to be seen as a victim. No, yeah, with, with, yeah. And it's actually not that bad. Yeah. That's like sure, oh, good. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I know, like, it's myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that, yeah, people are worse. No, they do, yeah, so good. But then equally, it's like so much of my work. And I know we've spoken about this before, but so much of my healing. And like, when it come, like, when it really came to me actually, diving into like the deeper work and actually taking responsibility for myself and my life, beyond my toxic patterns of overachieving and, you know, unrelenting standards and expectations, when I actually had to like, strip all that back and actually fucking heal, which is the hard. So much of what I had to do was actually let myself be a victim, because when I was like for my whole life, I've just pushed through. Yeah. And that was why I got chronic, like, I believe deeply that's why I got chronic because it was like, and my specialist at the time was like, your body's giving it like your body's fighting you, like you're done, like you need to actually look after yourself now. And it probably wasn't until then that I actually realized how much I did just like bury shit and never faced anything. And that's where there is the line. And it's like, there's so much duality in everything. And I think that this is why understanding yourself is such an important part of, you know, getting the things in which you want, because you can, like, you can let yourself be a victim and not stay a victim. You can, I think, like, there is such a line there where people like, like, it's like the pendulums will swing too far one way. For me, it was like, don't let anyone know. Like, until I was 25, no one knew what I was dealing with. And no one, like, my whole life was built on making it look like I had my shit together. And making it look like I was successful and making it look like the shit that was happening behind the scenes was like, picture perfect. Yeah. But then when I started to actually, like, do more work and be more vulnerable and actually, you know, show that life is not perfect. And it can make it like anyone can make you make it look like they're living a good life. But, you know, like, at the end of the day, it's just all perception. Yeah. But there is that line of, yeah, letting your, like, being a victim and then staying a victim. And sometimes you are a victim. And like I said before, there is like shit happens that you just, like, you know, everyone goes, oh, yeah, everything happens for a reason, which to some degree, I do believe. But it's like, there's just other shit that just, like, is like, no, you've just been dealt with a bad set of cards. Yeah. No reason for this one. It's pretty fucked. I think to, um, on that with you and for anyone, but until you actually acknowledge the truth of the situation for yourself. So for you, it's like, no, I was the victim in that. And I am still, like technically, and my body is still now trying to make up for what all that was. And now I've presented with currents and this and the other. And it's like, until you actually acknowledge the truth, you're never going to be able to evolve past it and here. And I think that's where a lot of people do get so tripped up in life because it's like, I don't want to actually acknowledge the truth and the depths of what it is that I actually need to process. So rather than doing that, I will push it down. I'll cover it up. I'll overachieve. I'll have the job. I'll have the handbags. I'll, you know, get the lashes, get the Botox, get the whatever. None of that is wrong. Like, but there's something so real to the fact where, like, the more that someone heals, the more quote-unquote natural they become, right? And that's like nothing against what any choice anywhere makes around their body. But it's so true, not from a point of this is right or wrong or good or bad, but it's naturally the more that you acknowledge the truth and you heal from that place, the more you actually realize things that I once sought to achieve a feeling or to suppress a feeling or to make myself feel better or look better. Yeah. I'm not gravitating to those things anymore because I've actually addressed the rule. Absolutely. Whatever, like cause thing, whatever. Yeah. And then you can still have those things and make those decisions from a place of genuine alignment versus like, I'm doing this to mask what I'm so afraid to see. And I feel like you are just testament to that too. Because I'm like, even if you look back, you're like getting the handbags, you're getting the cars, you're getting the jury, all of that is still such a big part of you. But it's just such a clean expression now, whereas then for you is like, no one can say the truth because I'm not willing to say the truth. So let me just get this. Yeah. Like, let me just be sane as like the person who's got us together and like all of the things. And probably the external validation. 100%. And like, looking for love where you can receive it. In a way that you're like, I need attention right now. And I need to feel something right now. And I need to be validated because shit's fucked behind the scenes to put it lightly. Yeah. So if I'm seen as this or I present as this, then I'm good. 100%. And I think also like looking back, it's like also acknowledging the part where for so long, I'd built like, like I said, up until I probably like up until I had kids so much of my life was built around an image of who, of how I needed to be perceived because I was so scared of being seen as broken, damaged, you know, unlovable, not enough, all of those things, which at that time I didn't even realize because, you know, I was too, I was too busy putting my attention into this because that's what fed me the things that made me feel the things that I was avoiding. And when I look back at that, it's like there was the part of me that was so wrapped up on needing to be perceived in a certain way because that's what I made myself believe was the thing that was getting me out of what I was in. So it was like, you know, the expression of success was the thing that was actually getting me, like, you know, the choice in that was getting me out of like, well, I am different. I am the black sheep. I am creating all these different things, but I didn't realize it was still so toxic, whereas now it's like, I'm still chasing probably more than what I was chasing back then. I still want the same things probably more than what I did then, but equally I want them because that's because it's coming from desire. It's not coming from pain. It's just coming from like this is just what I want to be building for my, you know, for myself, for my family, for our future, not because I need to be seen in a certain way. And I need to, this is what defines success for me because that's not. And I was actually having a conversation this morning with one of my friends at the gym when we were just chatting. And we were talking about like, we were like talking about like relationships and stuff like that because he's always, he's always like, I just love you and Jack. And he's like, you two just like really set such a standard for marriage. And I was like, oh, thanks. And I said the thing that I've really come to realize and what's been really evident for me over the last probably like a year. And I think I had this conversation with Jack even a couple of days ago, where I was like, yes, we have nice things. Yes, we are, you know, trying to build wealth and buy properties and all of that. And from an external perspective, it probably does look like we're doing well. But then equally, I think that like, you could take all of that away. And I would, like, I've still got everything that I want, like I said before. And I think that's the key to life, right? It's not building all of these things to feel a certain way. It's feeling a certain way and then building the things as a result. I'm clicking my fingers if you can't see a fact though. Right. And that's the thing. It's like, you can still want the same thing. But the way that you pursue that thing is the place that you pursue that thing from is worlds apart. Yeah, like absolute worlds apart. Same with like body composition. Yeah. So you can do that from a place of hatred and pain or you can do that from and that that never lasts and then that you cycle and then there's a whole thing. Yeah. Addiction. Anything in that way, like, or you can do it from a place of say with your body and physique. I just love myself and I want a long future and I want to be there for my kids. And I care about the state of my mind. And I've seen what happens when you don't take care of yourself. Same outcome. Such a different view. Yeah. And I also just like, you know, further to that as well. I do feel like it's like the people who are strong. for more. It's so easy to like get caught up in like you're just being unrealistic and you're wanting too much and like why can't you be satisfied. But I think the the point of life is to fucking live your life to its fullest. And you and I have had so many conversations around this and like one of my favorite lines of yours is like what storage you want to tell to you know the people your like your kids your grandkids and stuff at 85. And I think that that is such an important line and such an important thing to reflect on because nothing in which you know what we're personally pursuing is because we don't have enough and because we're never satisfied. It's like we just want to give life a red hot crack and we want to get to 85 and be like you know what we fucking set out to achieve the things in which we wanted and we did it. And when you can live your life knowing that realistically nothing is like nothing is off limits. And you like you can actually have the things in which you want and irrespective of circumstance because that is like that has been my message for so long and that's what I like anyone who comes into my path like I want them to know that it's like no matter what you can have the things in which you want because if there's any you know anyone who's lived that I feel like I'm living proof of that. But equally it's like like you get like one life and that sounds so cliche but it is so true and I feel like even for you you see that probably and feel that more now because you've seen the consequences of life being taken way too soon. So it's like why are we not more hungry to have the most insane levels of fulfillment? Yeah. To have the most beautiful relationships, the deepest connections you know to go after the big things that we want whether it's property, whether it's money, whether it's travel and experience like whatever it is it doesn't have to be even like a money thing. It's like just understand what success looks like for you because when the day comes when you know when the day comes and shits not the way that it was you want to know like you want to know that you've done everything and you've given everything to the life that you've been given. Yeah it's so true and it's like not even about having to achieve anything which you will but it's just about knowing that you got to that point at the end you're like I actually just gave it a crack. I think that's the difference right because people go well there's so much I see this a bit where people like you shouldn't always be chasing and doing it and I agree like if it's coming from a place where it's like your worth is fully attached to what you've achieved and what you can do then of course look at that but then similar to what we were saying before then you get to a point where you're no longer doing it because you think you're only worthy of your succeeding but you're doing it because you go I actually deserve to get to a point at the end of my life where I'm like you really just went after it and you showed yourself what you were capable of and there's again different ways that that can be expressed it can come from I don't feel good enough so I'm going to try and do more more more that's where you're going to address what's actually happening yeah but where it's like no I've done the work I'm feeling solid I am actually good but also what fuels me is to be someone who keeps going after it because one day won't be able to and then I'll be able to look back and then that feeling of it's like again so cliche but they're cliche for a reason right but it's like you just I don't want to feel regret and I know how crap it feels when you know how much more you're capable of and you're not showing up for that and you are dropping the ball and for me like even the level of anxiety in that because it's not that it's you're not good enough it's that no because you are so much better than this and you know that you don't need to prove it you just know that so you so act that way yeah and yeah like you said I think well that's why I love this platform for speaking to this kind of thing because it's not until for me even and like for you it's been a big part of your life but I grew you know five years ago I probably had this perspective but like not really because I didn't really have a real reason to have it or maybe I did with my football being sick and stuff but again like he was older and that was you know life and heartbreaking but it will fuck you thank God for you in that season by the way bro you've actually said I sure like what would I be about if you didn't come into my life I'd really but you know it's like yeah unfortunately a lot of the time you don't realize it until you're forced to realize it 100 you know and I spoke on a pod the other way and it's like you literally never know when the last time you do anything is ever yeah and not even to put fear into anyone but also like it is something to actually be fearful of where it's like yeah when you leave the house and you speak poorly to your husband not you but just however or you go for an old boyfriend that could be last time you ever speak to that person yeah and then that could be last time you ever speak to your dad and then that could be the last time you ever whatever and just actually having that level of awareness of life and it doesn't mean you're not going to slip up or have moments or you know let yourself down whatever you're a human like we're not saying to be perfect but just actually acknowledging that it is that deep one like it it absolutely is like I just think that we need to take our lives more seriously yeah and not from like not from a grind like not because we need to grind and achieve and all of that but it's just yeah it's like you said like I when I did my NLP which was like years ago they spoke to like having purpose and one thing that I've always struggled with is like you know with the choices that my immediate family have made and things like that like I've always held a lot of guilt around the life that they haven't had yeah as a result of those choices and for a long time I almost felt guilty because I have like I have kind of escaped that and I've created a very different life and I still sometimes feel guilty of that and I feel like you know especially with my brother who struggles very badly with his mental health I've been his mom pretty much his whole life so I he's still very much relies on me and sometimes like I really struggle with the fact that he is struggling yeah and I'm not like not in the same way but then also it's like you know I have to be I also have to be okay with the choices that he makes and the choices that I make and all of that but I remember doing my NLP like many years ago now and one thing they spoke about was like purpose and how you know we all kind of come to come aside with a purpose and for so long I've said like if my you know if my immediate family my sister and my mom specifically if they had purpose in their life they probably wouldn't be where they are but because they don't have purpose that's why they turn to these numbing and avoiding and you know distracting and all of these very toxic patterns and stuff like that and then I really kind of just start with it and I remember like just having this light bulb moment of like maybe their purpose was to give me my purpose no no tears yeah no tears but like you know and I'm like not like I'm such a firm believer in like pushing and giving everything a red hot crack but but equally I think that there is a level of like interpretation and everything right and with that it's like okay well if their purpose was to give me my purpose then my purpose is to break that cycle and I have done that which is like you know but yeah I think like yeah I think like life life is going to test you it's going to challenge you it's going to fucking knock you on your ass time and time again but if we stop looking at those as setbacks and actually look at it as stepping stones which is something I've said my entire life then ultimately you are going to become the version of yourself that you are proud of and I think kind of back to your back to what we were talking about before it's like getting to life without regret like getting to 85 without you know regret and and really going after everything that you want isn't necessarily about the achievements right it's always about who you become in the process and that is why high achievers and people who have built incredible lives for themselves continue to evolve at rapid rates because it's not about the end goal it's always the journey it's always the becoming and it's like am I addicted to achieving more for myself yes because I'm addicted to the feeling of of knowing and seeing and feeling my own you know for feeling my own potential and my own capabilities and and it's like who who we become in the process of is always the thing that has us reaching for more it's never what we're achieving because we bought a house on Friday and everyone was like what did you celebrate and I was like no we just didn't like you know I was like oh it's just like very neutral and like yeah maybe we need to celebrate that a little bit more but equally it's like at the end of the day it's not about the things ever and the reason that I am so passionate about sharing also the journey and sharing you know like I guess sharing the story of like you actually can create everything that you want irrespective of circumstance is not because you know I want people to go I want to achieve these big and clean. incredible, beautiful lives, I want them to experience the belief, like how do I say it, like I want them to experience the internal things in which you feel when you go from not feeling like you're enough, living your whole life, thinking you're broken, to then actually seeing how capable you are. That's what it's for, because really that, like you know, like it's like, if you had to told me 10 years ago, this is what my life would look like, I would have said absolutely not. But now I'm like, you know, like five years ago, three years ago, 12 months ago, I'm like everything keeps getting better, because I just continue to step more into what is available, and I think that that's true for you as well. Yeah, we're going to get it done, you know what I mean, but it's like to that point, I just said I'm so proud of you, like you actually made me cry, you know, like we get off this and have like a cool conversation guys, you won't be on it, you know what I mean, but yeah, I'm just so proud of you, and it's not exactly what you have, and it's definitely not what you've been given, you know, because you go, you look to people in the world as well, who have everything on a silver platter, and not maybe a silver platter, maybe they've worked for it, but in a way of like, it's not been purposeful, it's not been, you know, a feeling of accomplishment for them, maybe it was like say inheritance or it was whatever it was, and they get to a point and then the veil kind of lifts and they go, I'm so miserable and I don't feel a level of confidence within myself, I don't feel like I'm capable and why is that, you know, so when you're not chasing things from that place that you are now, it doesn't matter what you have, it doesn't matter what you've been given, it doesn't matter if you've got dealt the perfect hand because at the end of the day, nothing will override that feeling of fulfillment, like nothing can compare to that. And so that's like to the even the point before, it's not about if you have the houses, it's not about if you are in a van and that's what you live in and you travel the world, like whatever your thing is, you know, what would you say to someone that is maybe feeling a little bit lost in terms of their purpose or, you know, what they're here for or just a path that they're on because we haven't even got into this, but Shelley is like an incredible life coach. Well, you've been my coach for free, I'm like seriously, I don't even need to hit her up, but actually, just, you know, we need to get you back on the coaching seat somehow. So maybe that would be this podcast, but yeah, what would you say to someone like where to start, I guess? Where to start? I think I feel like that's such a nuanced topic because if you start with yourself long enough, you would know what you're here to do. And when you're in it, like when you feel stuck or you feel lost or you feel disconnected, it's very hard for you to get that clarity. But then equally, I think that if you are someone who, you know, doesn't feel right now that you are living your purpose, like take note of the things that make you feel good, take note of the things that, you know, like move you closer and again, like success is such a, like success based on society's terms is so different to what success actually is because success is measured by what you believe success is. And again, like success for me is fulfilment, success for me is freedom, success for me is progression. I think that is like it's so deep in, you know, the things in which I value is progression and growth, which is why I want to always be, you know, evolving and going after things. But I think that when it comes to like what society deems as success or what society deems is good about or wrong or right or whatever, it's like if we just strip back all of that and we come back to like you in your core and you go, okay, well what are the things that delight me up? What are the things that I value? What are the things that I deem important in life? And I say this all the time, but I think that understanding what you value is probably one of the most like important things you can do for yourself. And I used to say that that was very love and light and like surface level, but when I actually sit with like how important it is to understand the things in which you value, it's like if you don't feel aligned in your life, it's probably because you're not living a life aligned to the things that you deem to be important to the things that you value. And something that I've always said is like your values are obviously, you know, the things that are important to you and we might say friendship and we might say freedom and we might say, you know, our children and all of those things. But if you were to strip back your values and you were to really challenge it, it's like what do I want to feel on a day to day basis? Because we are all out here wanting to either avoid a feeling or feel a feeling. And for the most people, they're trying to avoid a feeling. And therefore their actions don't align with the things that they want because they're too caught up in avoiding the thing that they don't want to feel even though they're probably already feeling it as opposed to actually doing the things that make them feel the things that they want to feel. So if you are feeling stuck or disconnected or you feel like you don't know your purpose, can we actually just strip everything back, let go of all of the limitations that society plays on us, let go of what we shouldn't do and go, okay, what is actually important to me? And how does that make me feel? And we just continue to challenge, okay, and how does that make me feel? How does that make me feel? And then if we get to, you know, the basis of, okay, I want to feel fulfilled each day, I want to feel love every day, I want to feel connection, I want to feel purpose, I want to feel growth, whatever it is, I want to feel accomplishment. Then it's like, okay, well, what steps, what actions, what choices do I need to make in order for me to feel those things? Stop looking in the things that I like, stop trying to avoid and actually move towards the thing that you want. Because naturally, you will avoid those feelings because you're no longer stuck in the, like you're no longer stuck in the identity of them. And you're actually focusing on the identity of, you know, the version of yourself that you're becoming. Yeah. And that's like, arguably harder, right? Which is one of those things where it is actually, people think that they don't like the quote unquote negative emotion, right? But it's like, if you really look at it, that's where you're gaining the most. Because if you stay in that, nothing changes. But I think it's also protection, like we're wired to protect ourselves, right? So it's like as humans, we, we aren't wired to create sick, like we're not wired to build these big, beautiful lives and have all this, you know, like self-belief and all the things like, we're wired to protect ourselves. We're like, we're always looking, we're looking, you know, for threats. And then I think especially if you're someone who has navigated hardship or gone through trauma and your nervous system is just pretty far. And you've lived your life in, you know, a state of survival. Well, then your threat radar is far higher. You're like anything. It's like, you're like, I'm just, I'm just in protect. So I think it's not even that we, like I think there's definitely, we get, we get a lot of secondary gain from living in the negative, but then equally, we also do that to protect ourselves. If you can challenge that and understand that, it's like something that I, you know, I say this detains all the time. You will overcome the hardest things in your life. I don't want to get emotional again. But like, you know, like, the thing that you're fucking so scared of may happen. And you will overcome it. So when you, like, and when you go through that level of pain, you kind of, like, I feel like you kind of give less fox because you do almost create so much self trust and so much, like internal resilience of, like, enough, like I am unstoppable. You got to get through it first, babe. And I know I say this to all the time, bro. You're still in it. You're still in the think of it. But also, like, yeah, in the sake of it. But then, oh shit. But I'm getting through it. You know, so it's like, I feel like even over the last 12 months, like your ability to just hold the duality that is has become so much, I don't want to use the word easier because that's, it's never going to fucking get easier. But like, you're able to live in the duality of so much pain and still create so much beauty as a result of that. Yeah. And I guess it also comes back to the value piece too, right? Because, you know, and the guilt and it's like so similar, also so different in terms of what we've navigated and then what we navigate now. But I'm like, okay, so out of the thick of it, very much in the thick of it, but like in me accepting that that is the truth of I like out of that thick of it. Okay, this is actually life. And then being able to come back to the point of, okay, every single part of me wants to resist feeling happy. It wants to resist going after my goals. It wants to resist living a good life because who am I to have that if my dad can't, for example, yeah. And then it's like, okay, so putting that down in terms of like, it's actually selfish for you to think that way because if you zoom out and then And if you looked well. you value, but then not only that what the people that you love value and what they would want for you, that easy path would be to give up, to let it consume you, to sit in it, and that is very hard to be in it, but it's easy to be in it. And then the hard thing is choosing every day to live in purpose of what you value again, but then also what the people that you love want for you, similar to your mum and your sister in, you know, your purpose being birthed from that. And I think having a view on the world of, okay, well, if something in the fuckery of all of this is being communicated to me, it's the lesson of what's not guaranteed, and it's the lesson of life can be a lot shorter than you thought, or it can come out or no, or whatever it is, and you go right, so if I'm choosing hard every day, my hard is to choose to see the good, and it's to choose to see the light, and it's to look at what's happening, and then go, okay, for me to continue with my life, what do I also need to make sure as being met in terms of what I value? So for me, what I value is being able to get home, and when I'm home, I don't tell anyone I'm there, and I'm at my duds, like, oh, I'm with, where is, and then I'm with my mum. And then I'm like, okay, so that feels that part of me, where I'm not going there and leaving feeling guilty, because I didn't, you know, spend time. So it's like that, whatever you're navigating, also being able to look at it from that perspective of, okay, as hard as it is going to be, like, what is going to make me so proud in how I lead myself in this? What's going to make the people that I love feel loved? What do I need to say? What do I need to get off my chest? What letter do I need to write? What action do I need to take? Yeah, that's all very hard, but I think doing that, the more you do it, it's not that it becomes easier, like you said, but it does just become your autopilot. Yeah. And I think that's where you stop living in so much protection mode, right? Because it's like, you've already, almost, like, and I think that everything is relative, right? So we're talking about really heavy stuff, but at the end of the day for anyone listening, it's like, think of the hardest moments in your life that you probably at the time didn't think you'd get through. You got through them. So when I look at it, like the self-trust that I have and my, you know, my willingness to show up and do the things on the hard days, it's because I've built so much evidence for myself that I can do that, but equally that I've come out of something that I didn't once think I would. And I think that that's really tip for everyone, because whether you've gone through the depths of the depths or, you know, you haven't experienced too much, you've still experienced pain because that's life. We, you know, that, and that's the beauty of life. There's, if we all just experienced all the good, then we wouldn't appreciate the good, right? But I do think that when we want to, when we want to pursue the things that we want, it's like what exactly, right? It's like, understand what they are. And then also see the part of you that's so hesitant to pursue that because you're in self-protection. But then know that, like, if you can just, like, lean out and go, you know, while I've overcome things I probably didn't think I could, I already have so much evidence that I can do hard things. So even if I'm knocked on my ass by pursuing this thing or by doing this thing, I know that I'm going to be okay. And I think that that's where, like, that's where life really changes because you are more willing to really hone in on the things in which you value and do the things that are important. And it's like what you said before, it's like, when you go home, you're like, I am so selfish in what I'm doing, but so selfless at the same time. And I think as humans we need to do that too. Because at the end of the day, it's like nothing is guaranteed. Like nothing, really. And one thing that I was thinking when you're chatting before, which I think is also a big, big component to having a really deeply fulfilling life is acceptance. Because every time I've ever coached, you know, when I was coaching and I would speak to, you know, some of my clients who really struggled with potentially relationships that they had with their parents or relationships they had or, you know, life not being how they thought it was going to be or whatever it was. I was like, okay, but the only way that you're going to move beyond that is by accepting it for what it is. And that is fucking hard because how, you know, like how why do I have to accept that? Like I shouldn't have to. And I think that there's always like the logical, conscious adult version, the healthy adult version. And then the, you know, the small three-year-old version that just can't fathom and both are at war with one another. But when you actively choose to like see things from the perspective that actually supports you, then you're able to look after the three-year-old and actually come into a place a bit full acceptance. You've got me. I was like, I actually don't cry on this app. But it's true. And I think forgiveness too. And like the guilt, like relieving yourself of the guilt that comes with living a life that the people that you love don't live or get to live, you know, for whatever reason. And, you know, to that point too, the hard is harder, the longer you avoid the hard. 100%. And it's like we're always trying to avoid it. But that's actually making it worse for you. And then when life inevitably gets harder, the older that you get. And I used to hear people say life gets harder, like it gets worse. And I'm like, I get it. Like in life's great and beautiful. But then it's like, no, life will just get harder the older that you get in life because there are so many more things that you have to navigate. And if you have never shown yourself that you can get through it by choice, life will knock you on your absolute ass. And not in a way of, but I can get through the hard ship. It's like, it would knock you to the point of, I'm flawed. Like because I've never in my life built that evidence for myself that I can actually get through this. And again, all related, that could be you set up the gym. And then it could be navigating what you do with your family. And then it could be someone that you love passing. And then it could be whatever. But it's like every single time that is an opportunity. It's not to say that when something happened, you end up like so grateful. Everything happens for a reason. Like, no. But you will have that evidence bank of, in this moment, like even with dad, right? Like when we found out and that all started, I'm like, why don't get through this one? No. But then you do. And you're in it. But I would say even like when you found out about your dad, like you didn't tell any of us for like 12 months. I haven't even told really many people to be honest. Yeah. And because also that's not my story to Shayna and I'm like, no. Because you're like, yeah, well, what do you do with that? And I think for me personally, a lot of it, you would relate to this in your own way where you go, well, I can't make sense of this. So how could I say that to someone? Because then it's like, how are you? Fucked, I think. Like feels like I'm dying. Yeah. Has felt that way for the last four years. Yeah. So I'm not going to talk about that because like I don't know. So you know, so it's like, I think that can be a really was so many ways we can go in that. But like that's where you've always been so healing for me because literally that phone call had changed my life in terms of, obviously I've always had crews. But I think there's a difference between and my mom and even like dad. Yeah. But it's like, there's a difference between like your partner and your life partner. And you always say they get all of you right. But it's like when you have someone outside of someone who is so emotionally invested in it, not that you're not. But you're like, oh, should I can actually just speak and not have to have the answer? Yeah. And I can actually just be loved and supported and sane and have someone. And again, you the first person like even with other, I don't know what I was never getting at the time. Fucked out of Jenny. But you know, you've always been like, yes, fucked. Yeah. And like actually just allowed me to acknowledge what was not, but just be happy that this would just be grateful that this or just this. And it's like, I'm actually grateful, but it's not like there's nothing to be grateful for. Yeah. And I'm also grateful now for the fact of like, I know my dad and like what he lived for and what he values, like the older I get. And like even now I'm learning so much about him that I wouldn't have probably if what was happening wasn't happening. Right. But I'm like, well, we're so similar. And like that also scares me. Some like similar, you know, in terms of like life. Right. And like things. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, I am grateful for that. But also, it doesn't take away the heaviness of it. Yeah. And it's like when people say, you're so strong, you're like, oh, like not by choice. Yeah, I've had no to know. You know, you're like, hey, no, no, like, yeah. Yeah. I wish I was pretty weak. I'm saying. I actually got such a big quads. It's like that thing of like, um, you're writing your affirmations like, God, um, this year, I just don't want to be on the strongest soldiers list. Like I just want to be, I'm good. I'm fucking out. Yeah. Don't be on the strongest soldiers. I don't need to be strong soldier. I just want to be like awkward. Um, nothing more. No, no, no, no, it's just this year. Give me a year. You're the one one year. Because I often think if anything else wanted to happen in my life right now, yes, yeah, I don't know about that. It's absolutely. And I think that like that's the thing where we like we laugh about it, but it actually. is no joke right and it's crazy. There's just so much duality in life and it's just like you know this conversation's gone so many different ways and probably quite contradictory as well because I'm like you know you got to see it as be like see it as as your driver and things like that which I'm fucking believe deeply but then equally it's also having to like acknowledge and I think we spoke about this like only a couple of months ago right where it was like also acknowledging the heaviness and the weight that you carry every day without actually even realizing that you're carrying it and it's like we've become so good at like we have I don't want to say normalized it because it's definitely not normalized but it's like we accept like we've accepted it enough to be able to still just like pursue the things that we want and and create these beautiful lives but I still do think that that doesn't necessarily take away the heaviness that that comes with that yeah and I remember I was saying to you like not too long ago when I you know something when when South as it does and I was like I was like Easter this year and I got like that that message that I got and I was like oh yeah just a standard Easter and I was having conversation with Jack and I'm like the crazy thing is is like I just now have to go on with my day and pretend like everything's you know like everything's normal I've just literally done like the most beautiful Easter I can't with my kids and now I've just got this and I'm just like okay like you know and it's not that Jack expects me to be that way or I even expect myself to be that way but it's just like that's just that's just how it is you know and it's like well I'm not going to fucking dwell on this for the day am I having a you know like am I having a my own experience as a result of it yeah I am but equally it's like the just like the the like polarizing I don't even know what the word is like yeah yeah I know like and yeah it's like every day like you know like it's like even for you where we have accepted so much and we are so grateful and so content and life could really not be better but it also couldn't be more fucked like then he could really like it could be more like yeah but you'd look at us and go amazing no no I wish you actually like sometimes I think like if you knew if you knew but like to that point it's you know with you and then with me in my own different way and not even just doubt but like the rest of the family and the dynamics there and then yeah yeah and then mom then whatever it's a lot baby and I but it's even like you know like it's like sometimes like you're like oh yeah but like you and like yeah I've experienced fucked up trauma but I couldn't even fathom experiencing what your spirit your experiencing you know what I mean like I think of like mind scratches this like you know and like not that there's and not that there's ever like it's never comparative yeah yeah but I think like you know like everything is so relatively and everything is so individualized and I think that's why I see you so much because there is no words that can explain the pain you know like it's like yes we can still smile and be fucking pretty quick so cooked and joke and laugh and you know have the most like cook shit happening and still just be making fun of it but then equally like there is still like I still see yeah how heavy that is and how painful that is and how like there are times where your heart feels literally shattered and you're like there's there's no way this is getting pulled back together yeah no and yet to give your point even like of Easter and then you know with your life and then with my life and all things you do just normalize it for the point of I will actually pass over if I don't like the pain it's like all can shoot me like there's no way right so it's like okay we keep it moving we show up we do what we know we're going to make us proud what's going to make who love we love proud whatever but then because of that you find that it hits you in these random moments because you're reminded of it you know so you're like even you with the boys or like you know and then you've got so many different dates of the year that brings stuff up for you and then Easter get a text message and then you know even for me someone's like your family coming out to visit like that I'm like whoa triggered like bed there's things that you just would never realize yeah oh you're almost not suppressed it's not in a way of like avoidance but it's just like well I just have to normalize this so I do actually feel quite numb to think about it so like that's just I can't be in it right now so I'm not yeah but then you're reminded of it in these weird ways and you're like yeah that's my life yeah and I think it's like also one of those things where it's kind of not like a singular event that you kind of are overcoming yeah yeah it's not like like it's not one thing's happened and you're overcoming that it's like no but like you're living with that every single day and they're always going to be anchors and moments and times and and things that do do really bring things up and I would say that whilst my kids have been like becoming a mom has been literally like the thing that has like when I look at the boys I'm like whilst they need me I needed them 10 times more like they were my gift and like I don't want to get emotional but like I will never be able to think them enough for what they've given me but then equally it's like also seeing the part where like I've never had a mom really and I have and I'm grateful like you know in this but I'm like I'm so great like my mom has taught me some incredible things and she has you know I so much of like the things that she has taught has taught me have been beautiful and I've just I've had to come to so much acceptance that she's just unwell and that you know she has had like when I look at her life I'm like fuck like you know like it's her it's insane and she's the most selfless person equally selfish but not intentionally but I look at like how like I always I'm sitting in that of like all I ever want is to be mummed and I've never had that ever which is fine because that's my path but it's like you know and then equally I know that there are so many people who you know have lost their mums which is also fucked but I also have to see the part where it's like I've had to grieve that so much and I still grieve that because parenting is so fucking hard and doing it without anyone to call or anyone to rely on or anyone to yeah like like I think that there is just nothing like having someone like your mum that you know can be there and no one can really replace that role my dad tries to do a good job and he has done but yeah I just see the way that the boys depend on me so much and I see how other mums depend on their mums and it's hard to like yeah it's like you do have to accept accept that whilst like it's like but I don't really want to accept that like that's bullshit but I will but it's like not in it's not in isolation like that's a reminder for me every single day every time I'm fucking like I'm at my limit and I just want to tap out I'm like I got no one you know and so so it is those reminders and there's going to be more that arise and the same for you and that's just like like that aren't words yeah like that is just the like the the fuckery of it yeah that's our line truly like we just get to a conversation like we'll just get to a point of any conversation it's like yeah um yeah well I've got to say it's pretty fucked and that's a wrap like you know it's like you get to a point where you have these conversations you can and you put so many words to it and you know you speak to the truth of it all and then you just still no matter how aware you are of the situation you get stumped yeah because it's like but then equally and again we're just going to contradict ourselves because we are contradictions but but then equally it's like you can still carry the heaviness of that and still choose to have the the deeply fulfilling life and it's like what we're talking about before where I'm like I could not fault any part of my life yeah but genuinely genuinely I'm like there is not one part of my life that I could fault and there's not one part of my you know the things in which I've overcome that I would change but equally that also doesn't take away that like there is not heaviness and there is not sadness and there is not grief and And there he's not, like, well. or he having a human experience. And again, whether it's losing someone, whether it's not losing someone, whether it's addiction, whether it's like whatever it is, it's like both truths get to existed at the same time. And I think it's our like as individuals who want to live deeply fulfilling lives, then it's our choice to see that those truths get to coexist and come to a level of acceptance, even though it's incredibly hard to accept. And like still choose the life that you want, not the life that one you know, or that feels easiest, or feels most comfortable, or like feels like even so distant, you know what I mean? Like it's like it. Like life is not like it's not always gonna be perfect, and it's not always gonna be incredible. But I do think that we get to choose in every single fucking moment, every single moment, the life that is ours. I think that's like the life that is yours, and the life that looks like success for you, it's a fulfillment for you, irrespective, because otherwise you just like, you know, you can't be half in half out, you gotta just go fucking all in. - Well, it's hardy the way, right? Like it actually is hardy the way she may as well, have it be hard in a way that part of you still gets to live and be fulfilled. And I would say in all of that like to wrap it up, it's not even the you know, the heaviness or the fulfillment that's like the hard bit, it's like the middle ground, I would say, of the guilt of like, don't you reckon? It's like the guilt of overcoming the guilt of allowing yourself to experience the fulfillment and the happiness and the success, whilst this also is your being true. So it's like the duality, navigating the guilt, letting it both coexist, not letting one take away from the other, but especially not letting the weight take away from. - Absolutely. - You know, your potential in your life. - Yeah. - And just a reminder to everyone, like sorry, just go off. - No, no, no. - Like in this conversation, it's just such a reminder of really just be aware of, you know, not that you have to tread lightly for anyone, but it's like anyone that you look to in life, have an aircraft, they have stuff going on. - Yeah. - And you hear of people and their stories and the pain and you're like, I would literally never have known. - Mm. - You would never know. 'Cause I'd be kind, firstly. - Yeah, absolutely. - Maybe in ourselves. No one's got it easier, no one's lucky. Some people are lucky, maybe. But like, probably not fulfilled. - Yeah. (sighs) - And I think like I said before, it's like the fulfillment comes from, like comes from the heart. - Yeah. - Like it really does. And I remember like when I was chatting to you, when you came down from my birthday, and we were just talking about the fuckery of what is. And, you know, like the pain that comes with that. And it's like, you know, people like, oh, like one day you'll be grateful for the lessons. And I know I feel like you're kind of, you're seeing the lessons and you can appreciate the lessons, but that doesn't take away from also the fuckery of what is. And I, you know, and I said to, I was like, right now, like I think we put so much pressure on ourselves as well when we are going through hardship or going through adversity to get out the other side, right? And we almost put pressure on ourselves to find the lessons and to be grateful. And I know I'm contradicting myself here 'cause I'm like, I know for me, I would not be where I am, how do I not go through that. I wouldn't have this fulfillment at all. I know if it's certain, without that pain, without that grief, without all of that. I wouldn't be who I am. And I think everything, like I said before, it's always about who you're choosing to become in everything. But it's like, I think for all of us, we can almost, whenever we feel a level of discomfort, we try and get out of it as quickly as we can. And sometimes that is through the lens of looking for the lessons and being grateful. And kind of doing the toxic positivity, positivity thing, where we're like, oh, you know, like, yeah, everything happens for a reason and blah, blah, blah. But I also would say that the only, like, I can stand outside of, you know, a lot of that, that hurt in that pain. Now, seeing that that was always playing out the way that it needed to, not to take away from it, but to, like, now I feel like I've been able, like, I'm out of it enough to know that, to take the lessons that are, I can overcome anything. So therefore, I am going to give life a red hot crack because, like I said, I am through the things that I thought would break me, blaze being the biggest. And I think even that, like, that put all of the other shit to, like, feel like it was this. Like, and I think, how did I not go on through all of that prior? And like, that's heavy. But I wouldn't have coped with what we went through with ladies. But now I'm through that enough to then see the part that is like, okay, you know, we, like, you can actually achieve great things and still experience the depths of hurt and pain. But I think when you're in the hurt and the pain, you have to let yourself be there, not from a place of being a victim, but to actually letting yourself just see how bad it is in order to then move out of it and then see the lessons in it. - Yeah, agree. - Because, yeah, it's like, you will only ever find the most unstoppable version of yourself when you actually go through things that make you unstoppable. But you also can't expect that of yourself when you're in it because you also do need to, let yourself fall and let other people around you catch you. And that, you know, self creates so much evidence for like what gets to be possible. - Mic draw. - Mic draw. - We could keep going, but we'll be here later. - No, we actually could. I'm like, it's like another hour. No, it's so true. And also just to wrap that like the level of care that you don't have for shit. - Yes, that comes with just, you know, I'm gonna get through this. I don't need to people please over here. I don't need to do shit that I don't want to do over here. Not because it's just a neutral thing. I think that's what I've always admired in YouTube. You're just like, "No, come on, okay." (laughing) - Do you want to do that? - Yeah. - You know, yeah, 'cause life is so short. Energy is limited. Your energy is limited. There's limitless potential, whatever, but like only when you protect your. - A hundred percent. - And your peace. - And what you value and what you don't. And it's just like, absolutely no to anything that isn't that. - Mm-hmm. Which is ultimately getting you closer, right? Because it's like, for as long as you're saying yes to everything, then you're not actually saying yes to the things that are going to get you where you wanna be. - Yep. - So I think like, we've gone down. - We've gone in any circles. But I think the crux of it all is like, like, go after what it is that you want. Knowing that it's not gonna be easy, and that's the fucking point. But equally see everything, you know, everything that life is, is because you're here having a human experience. - Yeah. - Yes, you know, there is hardship, there is pain, there is adversity, there is people that are like the worst of the worst, and then there's kind of not, again, relative, relative. What does that even mean? But I think when it all comes back to it, it's like, if you just choose to do the things that allow you to become the version of yourself you wanna become, you will ultimately achieve the things in which you wanna achieve. - Period. Irrespective. - Period. - Period. - Period. - Shelley Panada. - Panada. - I was a panada. Panada like Kanada. But I think in Italian, it's panada. - Oh, Slay. - I'm getting it right. - Yeah. - Oh, you're not Italian. - No, we'll judge it. - Like, Dad's friend, so he says Panada, but the surname's Italian. - Yeah, right. - So, I'm right. - I don't know. - Shelley Rose. - Shelley Rose. - Oh, I love you. Thank you for being on the pod. - I love you. - We look, bro. We might be back for a part, too, like a monthly talk therapy app with the OG talk therapy. - But this, right, like this podcast episode, was just the point of this podcast, right? Like the name of this podcast was this episode. It was, we just talk, and you just get through it. And that's just, we're not going down other conversations, we've been talking for an hour and a half. But it's like, with the right people in your corner, talk literally, is therapy with your friends? Because you're just like, yeah, I can actually just be seen in the fuckery. And then we're just gonna go for a walk, you know? Probably complain about like the rain. - Right. - Like, get some noodle. - We can weird shit. - About your goat. (laughing) And I don't know about the goat. - About the eyes on through the head. (laughing) - The Undies on Cruises Head. - Yeah, guys, if you've stayed around to this point, you deserve to hear about the Undies on Cruises Head. - No, no, no, no, maybe next time. Come into my tent. DMs. Anyway, thank you so much for coming on the pod. Thank you so much. Love you so much. Can't wait for us to leave over for the next three days. Thank you guys for listening. If you have got this fast slide into the DMs because I want to know who the real ones are because that's a real one if you're still here for an hour and a half but I feel like I'm so grateful for show. Obviously just everything that you shared and your mind and the lessons and the fuckery and everything in between and coming on and just sharing. So openly for like people will get so much from it. If you don't already follow Shelley work and everyone finds you and follow along the journey. I'm not really doing much coaching anymore though so um actually Rose. Yeah. With the doubly. Yeah. Let's go. Um but yeah. Obviously I'm always an open book though as well. And I feel like also now that I'm not coaching like I feel like I have more capacity to actually like support people and not have to monetize it because I think that that's what I love is like actually being like doing this. I mean I'm not going to have it conversation. But I do think like you know I love I love showing people that they get to have the things in which they want and yeah if you want to jump in my DMs and get some support free coaching or insane. No, no, no, no. Yeah. I feel like saying though since stopping coaching I'm like I just love to do it like on here or like Instagram is a free. I'm like don't even want to do it. But I think that's why I like I got into it because I wanted to help people. Yes. I wanted to monetize it. Exactly. So yeah. If you ever if you ever need some coaching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll continue this at this chat off of record. You know what I'm saying because we could keep talking. So love you all so much. Thank you for listening to another week of talk therapy. I'll be back in your ears. Same time. Same place next week. And we can't wait to hear how you guys loved this app. How all-landed because I feel like there's a lawyer in that. And I am so grateful. Love you. Love you. See you next week. Bye. Bye.