24 - 5 Uncomfortable Truths About Channel Management & How You Can Confront Them - Barb Huelskamp

This production is brought to you by Magentrix. Magentrix is a pioneer in platforms for partner ecosystem management and partner relationship management. This is Partner Relationship Management, the ultimate channel sales podcast. Welcome to another episode of the Ultimate Channel Sales Podcast. I'm your host, Paul Bird. We all know that building, growing, and managing a channel can be incredibly rewarding. Fostering partnerships can take a business to heights unattainable without the power of scale that a channel provides. But it's not without its pitfalls and harsh realities. These uncomfortable truths, often kept under wraps, can hamper growth and success of your channel strategies, if not confronted head-on. Some of these uncomfortable truths include the challenge of alignment, the necessity of investment, the inevitability of conflict, the struggle of differentiation, and the demand for constant evolution. Today's guests will share their experiences, insights, and strategies to turn these uncomfortable truths into powerful levers for success. Our guest today has experienced these realities firsthand, survived, and thrived. She's an absolute powerhouse in the world of global channel strategy and partner sales, is an award-winning channel executive recognized by CRN Power 100, and has made significant strides in technology, cloud, and software markets, from growing revenues to orchestrating complex business transformation and optimizing partner relationships. Most recently, she served as the Senior Vice President of Global Partners and Alliances at Alteryx. She's here with us today to talk about the five uncomfortable truths about channel management and how you can confront them. Please welcome the very dynamic Barb Holskamp. Welcome to the show, Barb. It's great to have you here. Thank you, Paul. I appreciate that. Wow, you really know how to pump a girl up before a call. So maybe you can give us a little bit of the background that you've had with the channel. Within the channel, some highlights of your career, so far, anyway. Sure. I have been over 30 years in direct and channel sales. I had a few years dabbling in things like marketing and customer service and operations, but really the last 20 years in channel leadership, including several global roles across unified communications, mobile security, and then most recently in cloud and data analytics. I have witnessed the rapid innovation in technology, along with transferability, transformative go-to-market strategies, really scaling growth through partners. And while I feel I've brought experience to my organizations, that kind of growth also means we're learning and adapting to new ways of partnering. When not traveling, my husband and I are spending time with our kids, and I always like to share one of the most important jobs I have. We now have four grown children, three wonderful son-in-laws, and three grandbabies that we spoil run. Oh, that's fantastic. So in the context of today's discussion, in your experience, how has the channel ecosystem and partner strategies evolved over time? And what impact has that had on the organizations that you've managed? Sure. You know, I think for many of us who've been in partner alliance or channel leadership roles, we've seen an evolution of what really makes up a successful channel ecosystem and a strategy. Long gone are the days of just simply signing up partners and waiting for those leads to come, right? We know that having a strong partner ecosystem, is key to scalable growth versus just continuing to add more salespeople to your roster. So as a partner leader, you really need to ask yourself some of the right questions, right? Especially now with the current macroeconomic headwinds, is your channel strategy really driving incremental growth or accelerated growth? Have you evolved your partner program, your strategy, people, partners that align to the transformation of your industry, what's going on in the economy today? And as a partner leader, how have you evolved your partner program, your strategy, people, partners that align to the transformation of your industry, what's going on in the economy today? And as a partner leader, how have you evolved your partner program, your strategy, people, Program, Program, And as a partner leader, how have you evolved your partner program, your strategy, people, the demands of our joint customers? And one of the things I know we're going to talk about today is, are you getting comfortable getting uncomfortable with the difficult conversations to truly propel your growth and success? So question, and you've been in this industry for, like you said, close to 30 years. How has it changed as opposed to previous approaches? And do you think that the overall experience that a partner would have within these programs is evolving at the same pace that the strategy is evolving? Yeah, I love this question. I think it's a complex question because I think it depends on where you are, right? I don't think there's a wrong strategy. I think there's the right partner strategy at the right time, right? One strategy may have worked at a larger organization I was at as an example, but we were a much more mature partner organization, right? 15, 20 years, that same strategy might not work at a company just getting into a partner strategy or smaller or an emerging technology. So I don't know that there's a one size fits all answer. And I think you need to continue to be pulling up and looking at that. And one of the things I hope we talk about today is not just the short-term view. I think one of the things that if it hasn't changed for you, it should, is looking at the long-term, right? A three to five-year plan. Most companies are, right, they have an annual operating plan, but they're also looking three, five years after. So if you're out and you need to be doing the same for your partner strategy, if you're still narrowly focused on just the current quarter and the current year, I think you're probably doing your strategy a disservice. And, you know, I probably mentioned that first is what's changed for me over time is not just looking at that current year and that current quota. It's important. We all have goals, but you've got to be looking long-term. Absolutely. And you'd mentioned something about the current economic climate and how have you had to, or have you ever needed to kind of? Pivot and adjust when you get these economic situations that people have to deal with. Yeah. You know, recently I've used these words a lot, focus and productivity. If you peanut butter spread yourself across a lot of initiatives, when you have to do more with less these days, you're probably not helping yourself. So where can you focus to really get that needle moving growth? And it can be difficult, again, uncomfortable, maybe not spending time on the themes and the initiatives and the partners and the strategies that you've grown comfortable doing, but instead of those 10 things is focusing on the top three, really where you're going to get your needle moving growth. So narrowing that focus has been a big tactic for me. So in a conversation that we had and kind of focusing on that, you've always said that you've been a builder. So, you know, what kind of changes improvements do you typically take in your approach to not only the partner program? But also the people and the partners within that, that strategy, what kind of approach do you take when you are tackling kind of either revamping a program or creating a new one right from scratch? Yeah, I do consider myself a builder. And when I talk about that, it's not just the program, right? Or the strategy, but it's also the people, right? And execution trumps strategy every day, right? There isn't a wrong strategy. And if you can have the right strategy at the right time, you can have the right strategy at the right time again, right? But now, how are you executing? And I think the key to a great strategy is that maniacal execution. And that requires you to dive deep every day on the why and the how, right? Across your people, across your programs, across your strategy. And as you dive in, and I like asking why at least four or five times or how, right? How is that getting done at least four or five times? Because if you do that for every piece of data, for every question, for every question, for every recommendation, you can foster really productive conversations to architect a great joint business plan for mutual growth with your partner. You can refine a strategy so that it has greater success or get to the root cause of a problem, right? Or consequence and understand how to fertilize something that's great. Perfect. Now, when you look at kind of that approach within your partner strategy, one of the challenges that you had mentioned in the past, the uncomfortable truths, were the, you know, the actual people that are managing this program, the execution, the channel managers, so to speak. So when you look at that kind of tip of the sword channel manager role, what specific skills and attributes do you believe are really important for those channel managers to drive the business success? I think the profile of a successful channel manager has really changed over the years, right? And these are no longer junior positions. They need to be able. To influence at executive levels, really driving new business partnerships. And it's not just about, you know, Hey, Mr. Partner, what kind of leads can you provide to us, but building a sustainable growth engine for both organizations is that channel manager equipped to really drive business or are they acting as relationship managers, right? Just managing transactions. I think they need great executive acumen and presence, right? To influence partner executives and your own. as well as sellers, right? Our partners have choices. And so how are you - Absolutely. positioning that value at the executive level? Can they facilitate the uncomfortable business conversation to really drive a win-win? And that could be internally in your own organization or at the partner. One of the things I have found we don't do often enough as well is have you asked your partner what value their channel manager is providing? And if that answer isn't about growth, about innovative ideas, or that channel manager is really helping me propel my business forward with you, then what is their value to the partner strategy or your company? How do you evaluate that? How do you look at the value of the channel account manager and really kind of measure that? I love the idea of being able to ask the partner themselves what kind of value that Cam is bringing to them. But then internally, how do you measure that so you can manage it effectively? So I think there's some subjective answers, but I'm a metrics geek. I like numbers, right? It's in the numbers. So hopefully you have come up with a joint plan with your partner and you've agreed upon goals. And what company doesn't want growth? What company doesn't want more profitability, right? Another great question, how are we faring compared to other solutions in your portfolio, Mr. or Mrs. Partner, right? Because if we're growing faster, are you aware of that? If their profitability is lower, are you aware of that? If they're growing faster, are you aware of that? Is your solution driving the professional service attach that really makes you more relevant? Make sure you've identified the metrics that are important to the partner that are important to you. And are you measuring it? Now, you had also mentioned something there, and it's a term that I love, maniacal focus. I love it. But there's also something that you mentioned that I would like to kind of dig into a little bit deeper, which is that you have this perspective that execution trumps strategic vision. Every single day. So can you kind of expand on that a little bit further on how that impacts the program and the execution to drive the growth that you're looking for and that you've attained in the past? You know, I'm pretty simple minded. When you look at what a goal is, there's activities that lead to pipeline that lead to revenue, right? And if you are tracking what you're doing, and it's effective, it should lead to pipeline, right? And if you're really great at generating pipeline, you got to be able to do that. And if you're not, you're not going to be able to do that. If you're really good at closing, are you getting to the revenue? And you know, no one wants to be micromanaged, but the maniacal follow up monitoring so that you can course correct before it's too late a quarter or a year, or fertilizing what's going really well, how do I rinse and repeat that whether it's with that partner or more programmatically, just putting maniacal focus on it as well, right? Inspect to expect it's kind of a cliche, right in the sales world, but you really do have to maniacally follow up. And especially at the partner level with your key partners, if, you know, 80% of your revenue is coming from your top five partners, looking at what we're doing together every month is pretty important. Oh, for sure. Now, you'd also mentioned a little bit earlier, something about the uncomfortable truth of time, and the role it plays within your channel strategy. Why do you think it's so often overlooked? Time can be your enemy when you have really growth goals, right? Every quarter, or you're doing forecast calls every week, right? And so you've got a tactical job to do every week to make sure that you're meeting your company goals. So I think it's important that you develop a strategy and a program that's got a three to five year plan with documented ROI, and make sure you have communicated that and have those expectations. And sometimes that ROI isn't necessarily aligned to the company's current year, right? I mean, it's rare that you've got a new partner, program, strategy, or even new partner, that's going to solve for all of the problems and really get ramped up in less than a year. You know, you and I were talking about this earlier. Launching a new relationship typically needs 18 months to three years, right? To really show material contribution to the business in terms of incremental revenue, new logos, or even building new innovative bundles with partners, right? I think it takes time to build stickiness and loyalty with a partner, right? So I think it's important that you develop a strategy and a program that so if your solution can create multi-million or billion dollar professional service attached, it takes time for that partner to do that, right? Invest in the people, hone their craft, and gain references in the market. So, you know, time is your enemy sounds horrible, but have you communicated the time that it takes to do all this, including that cultural shift, right? If your company's heritage was a direct selling go-to-market, there may be resistance to the time required to get to the ROI, particularly in this economy, because it's much easier to show a one-to-one return with a direct sales rep than through a partner model. But you lose the ability to scale. And that's one of the challenges. I think that some people, when they look at, oh, I'll go to market through a partner ecosystem, channel network, they think it's the quick fix, right? It's going to allow them to scale quickly. But the opposite is really the truth, because it takes time. You're right. It takes time for people to build a practice around your business. I had said 18 months, you had said three to five years. I'm probably going to take your recommendation because I think that really is what it takes to be able to build a practice around this. And if you don't mind me adding to that, right, when we talk about the 18 months to three years, I do think it depends on the commitment with the partner as well, right? They have their own business agendas, their own growth goals. And so if you can agree on the short and long-term goals, and again, raising the awareness of that beyond the fiscal year that you're in and work backwards from that long-term three to five-year plan. Then you also mentioned the cultural shift in this part. And I have, for my career, I have worked on both sides of the channel. I've worked in direct sales organizations. I've built and managed channel in the past. But when you talk about that cultural shift, have you ever been in a situation where you've had to deploy a partner-led strategy, but this history of direct sales and how do you manage that transition? I can't imagine the challenges you would have faced. I absolutely have. And certainly some lessons learned, you know, you can flip the switch on a new program. You can flip up the switch on hiring on new initiatives and demand generation, but you can't flip the switch on cultural change. It can take years for that to take hold at the field level, right? So going back to that first uncomfortable truth first, do you have the executive sponsorship for the long-term plan? Are they boldly supporting the partner strategy with more than words, but actions, right? Proactively bringing business to partners, innovating collaboratively with them on think big ideas and investing in their success. And is your company demonstrating the right behaviors at the end of the quarter? Are there policies, compensation, consequences to support that cultural shift over to partners? It is an investment upfront, but determining when that ROI and when that growth starts to ramp up through partners, as you mentioned in a more scalable fashion, identifying when that needs to happen, right? So if you are in your go-to-market strategy, that cultural shift happens when partners become a part of all of it. And what I mean by that is training, right? Everything that you do internally, you need to do with your partners. Are partners visible at your sales kickoff? Are partner success stories part of your wind wires and your references and your customer events, right? Everything you're doing as a sales organization, partners should be included in that as a virtual extension. And that will drive that cultural shift more quickly when it is just seen as part of the go-to-market team. Do you think that most organizations have the appetite to make that change? I mean, it's a heavy lift to be able to go from always doing things one way with direct people and now being able to look at a partner-led strategy with the goal of scale. And we talk about three to five years before they start seeing a return. Do you think a lot of organizations have the appetite to do it or the wherewithal to stay with it? I hope so. In my experience, when you have leaders or sales teams who've had experience, successful experience, leveraging the partner ecosystem, understanding their value, yes, it can absolutely happen. And that always be selling, I often say a channel manager's role is a dual sales role, right? You are selling your partner on the value of your organization and your solution, but you have to always be selling internally on the value of that partner. And never assume someone gets it and knows it. You've got to be repetitive. If you're a parent, you just can't say things one time. You need to continue emphasizing the value of a particular partner. Or emotion. And we'll use that word again, just be maniacal about selling that value internally. When we had an earlier conversation, you had an extremely interesting topic that really kind of caught my attention. And as you're taking this channel and growing the channel, you have this concept of composition of growth. Can you expand on that a little bit further and kind of provide some examples on what you analyze when you're looking at the composition of growth? Yeah, I think this is one of the most uncomfortable truths in the channel. industry, right? How you're getting to grow, the composition of growth, that discussion with a partner, have you really dissected their results? So as an example, I had a partner with triple digit growth, highest revenue in their theater. But when we dissected it, 90% of their growth came from leads given to them by us. 5% from joint events and 5% were from their generated leads or deal registrations. And that's okay if it's a first-year partner, right? Because you do need to invest in those partners. But it's probably not okay if the partner's older than five years with you, right? And when we spoke to that partner, they were shocked. We should have been talking about that with them the whole time, right? So when you look at the composition of growth, I think there's several levers depending on where you are and what's important to the relationship, right? Number one, renewal rate. Are they keeping their customers? And how do they compare to your average renewal rates if you have a direct selling organization or to the just general partner community? Have you dove into the customers lost and why, right? Are there trends or opportunities to train them? On their existing customer base, are they expanding those customers or did they just hunt, they win a deal and they move on, right? What's their customer expansion rate? If there are certain customer segments they're focused in from large global strategic down to SMB or public sector, are they growing or declining in a segment and why? Verticals, are they dominating in one in particular that you targeted for growth? What's their average customer count, average deal size? Is it growing and declining? And new logos, right? If you look up the definition of partnership in the dictionary, it really does need to be a win-win for both organizations. And while it's never exactly 50-50, but if you are hovering around that mark with 50% of the opportunities we're bringing to you, 50% of the opportunities we're bringing to you, 50% of the opportunities we're bringing to you, 50% of the opportunities you're bringing to us, it's a really healthy relationship. Absolutely, for sure. And what kind of strategies do you use to do that at scale? I mean, I imagine if you've got only 20 or 30 partners, that is something that is pretty manageable. But in a global channel, how do you go through and look globally if you've got literally hundreds or potentially even thousands of partners? Is there an approach that you take or potentially tools that you use? In order to kind of give you those valuable insights? Yeah, you know, the more that you can automate, the better. I have been able to use a tool and it's, you know, I love the word template. But if you can create that template, and it pulls data from your PRM, pulls data from your dashboard and your CRM, and populates that with as much just fact and accurate data as possible, the better. As well as taking, here's where you are today, Mr. Partner, Mr. or Mrs. Partner. And here's where you are today, Mr. Partner, Mr. or Mrs. Partner. And here's what ideal looks like. Here's the money you're leaving on the table. And I've been able to do that effectively, not just showing the difference in top line revenue, but profitability, right? If you have a really good relationship with your partner, and you can openly discuss the kind of profit they can count on, whether it's on your solution or gross blended margin with your professional services, and look at things like improved renewal rates, and what that would have done to their profitability for the year, right by improving that. Composition of growth for them looks different when you do have a very balanced lead generation contribution from both organizations. So first look at the tools that you have, what are the workflows where you can automatically pull in that data? And then it's just going to have that conversation. It could be uncomfortable, but most partners are going to react very well to a valuable conversation that is focused on how they can improve their growth, improve their profitability, and sticking this with you, improving their customer outcomes. So you really focus on the kind of the importance of this open, honest communication that's obviously data driven, because that's what you want to leverage. But you also shared an analogy earlier in a conversation we had before the podcast, really relating to this concept of moldy bread, as it applies to partnerships. Now, I imagine this is a different type of honest conversation that you would need to have. So can you tell us a little bit about that? Can you dig into that a little further for us? Yeah, I love all my little sayings. And anyone who knows me knows I've said that for a while, moldy bread just keeps getting moldier, right? So when you know there's a problem, you can't ignore it. So avoiding the uncomfortable conversations only going to grow more mold, right? So get comfortable getting uncomfortable, because just like an employee's performance review, right? You don't want to wait until the new fiscal year to discuss performance, don't miss out on the same opportunity to discuss business, performance with your partner. It's not personal, it's business. I have seen nearly every time, they'll appreciate the deep dive, right? No one wants to be surprised. And with that discussion, you can decide if there's value, if there's a long term future, how to foster business that is winning for both. And you may expose the partner that they need other resources to have a better composition of growth, that they may need more focus, right? We're talking about that at the moment, right? I've seen most partners react with surprise, but the desire to do better and grasp more of the market, understanding the data. And ultimately, I mean, if they can grow their business, they're going to be more profitable. But sometimes there's a point where it's time to say goodbye, because it's not really working for for either organizations. Have you had to have those tough conversations where it's time that you part ways? Yeah, and that's probably the most difficult conversation and more for the partner. Because if you have been a dominant piece of their business, in particular, for maybe some of the more smaller boutique partners, that could be a real shift for that organization. But ultimately, you want businesses to succeed, you want them to do well. And just keeping a partner on your books, there is a cost of doing business for yourself. But you're probably not going to not doing your joint customers great service either, if it is not working. So, you know, as an example, with one partner, they made a decision to get out of a certain customer segment and get more focused on others where they were doing well. And that's fine, because they weren't performing well with us in that customer segment. So weren't we all serving our organizations and our joint customers better by having that conversation? For sure. So if you've been listening for the five uncomfortable truths that we've been talking about, we're going to talk about the five uncomfortable truths that we've been talking about. Barb, I'd like to get your thoughts on each one of these, and how you can turn this kind of uncomfortable truth into kind of a lever for potential success. So we'll count down from five. And the first one that we talked about was time. How do you take this concept of time, because, you know, time is limited, and turn it into a strength for you? Yeah, you need to create that three to five year plan, right? You might have a quota this year, got it, that's cooked. But project out that three to five year plan, do your homework, do your research. And a lot can happen in three to five years, right? We didn't see COVID coming. Last year, we saw the great resignation. And this year, we're seeing a lot of layoffs in the technology sector, which is impacting resources. So create that three to five year plan, have flexibility in that, make sure that you are communicating that up with the reality of time to that ROI, right? Again, don't build that in a vacuum, talk to your top partners, and make sure you understand their growth, goals. Just because you are growth oriented doesn't necessarily mean that they have the same aggressive goals. So you're not going to succeed with those top partners if they're not agreeing to the same short, long term goals. Great advice. All right. So number four on the list was the channel managers. How do you take that uncomfortable part of working with channel managers and really turn it into a lever for success? Build the profile of a successful channel manager for your business. What are the five or seven skills that they need to achieve? What are the five or seven behavioral attributes that are critical to your business? Outside of typical performance reviews, build a scorecard and determine, one, do you have the right people to build a strong partner-led business? How are you managing enablement of that team to mature their skill sets? I love a good buddy system. If you've got a more junior channel manager right now, how do you pair them with a veteran or even a partner sales leader to give them an opportunity to grow? Check in with sales leaders. What are they saying about your channel manager's contribution to the business, right? Are they seeing pipeline increase? Do they have confidence in their partner's capabilities? Is there something that they need from the channel manager and their assigned partners that really would make a material difference to the region's success? Again, if you're not proactively having those difficult conversations, they're going to creep up on you eventually. All right. Number three, making sure you have the right partners. Again, I keep using the word template, but build that partner scorecard template. Identify the attributes you need for your short and long-term growth in your organization. And again, that may change annually, right? Consult with your partner team, consult with your executive sales, customer success, engineers, and marketing, and just use a three-level rating, right? Anything more than that, it starts to get a bit ambiguous. So put together that list, put together those attributes, and then scorecard it. And then, you know, if you're not proactively having those short and long-term growth in your organization, make sure you have the right partners. Do you, again, do you have systems or tools that can help you automate this, pulling facts in from your PRM, CRM, or dashboards. And then with that, build your plan, prioritizing the top channels that you want to double down on, whether you eliminate partners because there is a cost, right? Or build a plan for partner recruit. And I think this is important. And every organization is a little bit differently, but that partner recruit function could be necessary just because you need to grow your ecosystem. It could be because you just need to build a more diverse partner ecosystem. And when you identify those gaps on your recruit, again, maniacally execute on the follow-up. Because if you have a PAM who's got a quota with these 10 partners, you're not going to get their time on recruit if it means that's not going to retire their quota. So understand how you're going to segment that in your team, how you're going to reward for that, how you're going to micromanage that to ensure that you recruit those partners that you need. And the last two are probably the most difficult. Number two on the list is the cultural shift. How do you turn that into a strength? Yeah, because if you don't have support, right, for the partner strategy, it will fail or at a minimum, just not reach the potential that you desire forecasted. So you need to ask for the support directly and be specific. I talked about SKO. Where I've seen partner strategies accelerate is when partners are part of that sales kickoff. They're a part of success stories. They're a part of your go-to-market team just as virtual members. Second, share their results broadly, not just with the partner team, right? I've seen big eyes from sellers who saw that growth with new logos or year-over-year growth without pacing direct, right? That cultural shift can accelerate in the field if sales and other peers see the value of the partner attribution to the company goals. And I talked earlier about always be selling. Our partners, visible, are we talking about them? Are we continuing to iterate what their value is and segment that, right? Every partner is going to tell you they're great at everything, but really aligning partners to the gaps in the business or where you need help in the business so that they are seen as members of the go-to-market team. Be very specific in the asks. Absolutely. And the number one, the composition of growth. How do you turn that composition of growth from an uncomfortable truth into a lever for success? I don't think anyone should underestimate the value of QBRs, having a joint plan and a quarterly business review. You should be summarizing the composition of growth every quarter, if not every month, right? If it's a very large partner. Again, there are plenty of great templates for business plans, but giving your channel managers the examples of what good growth looks like for your business. I mentioned some earlier. They're not all the same for every company, right? From year-over-year growth, opportunity registration, average deal size, number of opportunities, renewal rates, customer expansion, new products, right? Are you pivoting from on-premise to cloud or hybrid? Are you trying to change the portfolio of the products that you're selling? Get comfortable getting uncomfortable with the numbers and understanding the data. And again, ask five questions of that data. For every data, you're not there to just report the news. We had 100% year-over-year growth. Why, what, and how? It's not personal. It is business, and it will help you understand where in your business plan you need to make adjustments. So as we wrap this up, one final question. What do you think the most important bit of advice that you could give an organization that's trying to scale through channel? Right now, probably adaptability. We are in a time of rapid innovation. Think big, go-to-market activities, and you want to make a commitment to the initiatives. Make sure you've researched and set good goals with them, but don't let perfection be in the way of progress and adapt. Talk to your partners, talk to your sales team, talk internally, right? As channel organization. So talk, don't operate in a vacuum, and adapt quickly. All right. Great advice, Barb. Thank you so much for being on the show today. It was a pleasure to have you here. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. This has been a lot of fun and hope that we've been able to help some organizations with their channel strategy. Perfect. Thank you, Barb. All right, guys. Thank you for listening to the Ultimate Channel Sales Podcast. Please don't forget to join us next time. For more information, please visit channelsalespodcast.com. If you haven't already, please like and subscribe to our podcast. And if you enjoyed this episode today, please leave us a five-star rating. 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