#239 - John Rogers

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Also, one small favor to ask if you guys aren't subscribed and you see value when we talk about here on this show today, subscribe and share the show because again, that's how we have grown this organically is through each and every one of you because if you guys see value in this chance to start your networks, going to see value in this as well. I got a very special guest for you guys today. This gentleman has just came into this industry with no experience at all didn't even know what a truck was essentially when he he started in this and he has built up a successful brokerage with us through hard work and dedication. So I got Mr. John Rogers here today is an independent freight agent and John, thank you so much for joining me here on this Friday evening because freight never stops you guys it's already 6 p.m. Eastern time out there and we're making shit happen man because that's what we do in this industry. So John, thanks for joining me. Glad to be a part of it. I appreciate it. So dude, like I like John and I were talking right before we started recording and he started telling this story and like, no, fuck hold on, we got to get this on we got to get this on camera. So dude, how how did you get your start and freight like what brought you into this and like what were you doing before? So for 26 years I was a successful automotive car salesman car manager general manager general sales manager finance manager work my way up the ranks. Move to Florida worked in the car business down here for a large group. It's just it just wasn't my fit compared to a small town where I'm from in West Virginia. There was an ad for a freight broker, which I knew nothing about plot plot for the job they interviewed me. And the rest of history it took a job and I started being a freight broker. It's just why I like I love that. So like what do like what keeps you coming back like what excites you about this industry because I think coming in as your second career essentially at this point like what what is it that keeps you coming back every single every single day for this. Well, a couple things number one. If there's never a dull moment right yeah, I had to truck the other day that was doing a road from Dalton to bowling brick which I do every night. And the driver gets the Nashville gets in a fight with another driver in the fuel aisle and gets the shit beat out of him has a concussion I can't make this shit up man has a concussion sitting on the side of the road goes to the hospital. I mean it isn't but it's fun and number two it's very lucrative. Yeah more so lucrative than than the car business. So it's a so the combination of two it's fun it's sales it's it's just I just having a good time I'm really having a good time. So how did you start with like with no industry experience minimal knowledge about everything because again like a lot of people listen to this stuff and shit they might even have experience but they're starting over because like I came from a big box broker starting out and like man you're kind of fed accounts at a lot of these places because people leave. And there's an established account that's left over but you came in and you had to start cold what what was your approach to that. Well I had no clients when I started at Arnell which is the I worked for Arnell global which was the 3 p l for Arnell carriers which is the 6 largest trucking company United States. They really didn't give you any training it was basically here's a desk here's a phone here's a list of some old recycle customers that don't ever answer the phone go get them tiger yeah what I've done was I targeted West Virginia because that's where I'm from yeah it is small town. It's not like a Dallas where there's 10,000 shippers within a 20 mile radius right it's small town and I just started picking those off so obviously I speak the language. I'm like hey I'm from West Virginia oh no kid where you from when field so the guy that gave me my first shot his name's Mark. I know his dad his dad just lived down the road for me yeah and he's a logistics manager for a company that makes biscuits and as a copacker. Okay and he's like sure I'll give you a shot you're from West Virginia I've got to so I started with him then he gave me some referrals I started working those referrals then I started working with some some other clients up in Ravenswood and Millwood and some of these companies are big companies like I like what am I big clients and see here's a difference I want to think I know I don't care to mention my clients because they're loyal to me. So I don't worry about poachers because nobody can outwork me right so like in court in health care they're a huge medical supplier you know I said I called up the guy and I said look I'm from West Virginia I do some business here in West Virginia already hey sure man I'll give you a shot next thing you know I'm moving freight for him. So I just work that West Virginia niche and that's how I got started. Okay so how like how did you expand out from there because like I do I'm all about that like you know I live in Arizona now and I'm you know in building up my brokerage like I'm targeting Arizona I'm targeting Minnesota Minnesota East or Western Wisconsin where I'm from because you know kind of that same approach is it's like dude I just feel like there's that connection with those people no matter what and and. You know for me personally I feel like in today's day and age when everybody's talking oh go digital we're gonna you know everything automate this and that and again like I personally feel like 95% of my job should be automated as a freight broker but I also think you should never ever automate anything in regards to conversing with a customer. So it's like for me I want to go and visit people in person I just want to go buy and introduce myself that's it I want you to see I am a real person because again so many people want to hide behind an email they don't want to pick up the phone because they're nervous and you know rightfully something like I'm open about this man I'll scare shitless when I first started call call it you know because it's like you just never know because you you're attaching so much to a person who you're literally never going to meet in real life and it and it literally stifles a lot of people from actually going to be. I'm not going to be able to get people from actually going through and selling but now I realize that there is immense power and just be like hey I want to stop by and introduce myself that's it because that's how relationships are built I think so many people put the cart before the horse john they're like I called you why aren't you giving me $10 million today. We just talk for 30 seconds why aren't you giving me all your business. Obviously, if it was that easy, everybody would do it. - 100%. Yes. - Right. So the way I, so I come in out of the car business, right? So you've got to be able to close people. So you've got to be able to talk to them, right? Because selling is just a transference of feeling. It's obvious. And so you got to make people feel warm and fuzzy. And I've always said that. And so we're in, and there's, and I've, I've probably between my employer and myself, I have spent probably about $100,000 in developing my craft from conferences, different ways to close. And here's what's funny, is if you replace the word car with the word freight or truck, it's the same thing. - Yeah. - The way you close and the way you approach. So there's a, there's a, in a car business, there's a 10 steps to a sale. But what's the first step? You just nailed it on the head. A meet and greet. What's the second step to a road to a sale? Find common ground. So if you get through step one and you get through step two, the rest of those steps, now you want to, the rest of those steps are going to be much easier. - Yeah. - So I took my car, a trance skills and I transferred them over to freight. - Yeah. - I do, like for example, when I'm been against other brokers, we, we all do it. You're going to do it. I do it. I don't do a lot of it now, but I did, especially in the trenches at Arnell, right? I say this. So when I do a quote, I'm all about speed. So I'll quote somebody back within seconds, 30 seconds, one minute. Then I'll wait 10 minutes. I'll watch my clock. 10 minutes goes by. I'll call them up. I'll say, "Hey Janet, did you get that quote over? How did that look?" Oh, John, I'm still waiting on other brokers. Janet, obviously I find your business a priority. So that's why I quoted you quickly. Obviously these other brokers do not seem to have the same values of making your business a priority. So I'll tell you what, Janet, we all use the same data to quote. So why don't you just go ahead and let me get this off your plate, send it over to me and I'll get started to work on it now. So I create a sense of urgency. So what I do is I condition my customers to expect that I'm going to quote them fast. So as everybody knows, people are busy. So sooner or later, as you condition, and I just made a post about this in Lincoln, as you condition your clients, now they expect that they're know that I'm going to pop that quote right back out to them so that they can make a decision. And so it's just conditioning, training, and speed. I think those are the things. And then some other little things I built my business on, which were the weaknesses. Arnell closed at six o'clock every day. At 601, it's Cricket's everybody left. How many of you had a customer on a West Coast? It's three o'clock. Guess what? They're not going to get quoted until they're not going to-- you're not going to get back in the office till eight, nine o'clock. That's not going to get quoted. You're done. That some other brokers already got that right. And then of course, answering your phone. I answered my phone 24/7, 365. Yeah. No, I'm right there with you, man, John. I'm from the exact same school of thought on a lot of that. Because again, it's like, I feel like if you're going to work in sales-- like, again, I'm not going to sit here and say that, don't-- like, oh, wake up at 2 in the morning. Do whatever you want. But if you're going to find a way to build up a book of business, you have to be-- to your point on quoting, you have to fucking be quick on that. Because in my opinion, if you wait five minutes, you're already gone. Like, you're done. If you're going to play in the spot market, now, there's a difference of, hey, you're contracted. And you receive a load tender and you don't respond right away. He below your, sir, tender and it over to you. But if you're going to build a book of business on a spot market alone, which a lot of people do, they live and die by the spot market, you have to be fucking quick, man. If you don't know a rate, you have to at least respond and let them know that you're working on the quote and you get it back to them shortly. You have to be engaging in it. You can't see a quote comes by. And then, oh, well, my text message came by. I'm going to go text my wife or my girlfriend or my boyfriend or whatever the fuck that looks like. Because that's where I found the most successes. It was that quick, fast, reliable-- hey, every time they reached out, I'm quoting it. I'm quoting them. And even this, even if they send over something and I can't do it, because I'm of the school of thought, if I don't have a trucker, if I know that I can't get it covered, I'm not even going to fucking roll the dice anymore at this point in my life. It's gone bad too many times for me. So I'm going to respond to them. At least, we'll be like, hey, I do not have an option for you on this one. Thank you, whatever. I'm going to acknowledge it because I will never over commit to my capabilities ever again. It's cost me a lot of money in my career and I won't do it. After hours, same thing, man, we can stuff like that. Again, this isn't for everybody. And I'm not going to advocate for people to go down this route if they don't want to. But I'm a 24/7, 365 mindset as well, John, because I-- this isn't a game to me. All right, like this is literally how I provide for my family. This is how I put clothes on my son's back and food on my son's plate. I will fucking do whatever it takes. That's about, like, at this point in my life, John, when people ask me, what do I do? My response is whatever it takes. Because that's what it is. And that's the mentality that you need to build stuff up. Now, you don't have to work-- the 24/7, 365 thing, you need to take your time. I'm sure you have carved out what works for John Rogers to decompress and walk away from your business. Because everybody at some point in time gets to that point, I feel like. Because I was listening to a podcast where guys like, man, he's like, my vacations are when I sit by myself and take a shower for 10 minutes and I don't think. He's like, that's my vacation. Or when I'm eating dinner, for example, I don't look at my phone. I don't think about work. I don't think about anything. That's a little mini vacation for me. But it takes a lot of effort. And that's like what I'm hearing you say right now, is it's like if you're going to build a book of business or a business in general, and you want to experience success, it is a lot fucking harder than you think. And you have to be committed to it. You have to be on the ball with it if you want to see this stuff grow out. Absolutely, 100%. I always tell my clients, if your lights are on, mine are too. In his bottom line. And I've even said this in sales pitches. Why don't you pick up the phone and call me at 2 o'clock in the morning, see if I answer. I will. Yeah. And that's what it takes. But I'll tell you what, I mean, freight doesn't sleep, money doesn't sleep, right? One of my big clients is Brinks, the armored car company, right? I'm moving to load right now to Brooklyn, New York, a couple of trucks. And those trucks are going to replace trucks that are down. Those trucks will get dropped off tonight, and they will be riding around New York City, picking up money, gold, jewelry, diamonds. And they depend on me. If they would have called another broker, and this is a quote from the guy that I'll deal directly with, you are the own, they're a 160 year old company. 160 years. They used to transport gold and money in a stage coach in the average lifespan of a Brinks employee in 1859 with six months, because they were dead. Yeah. So let's fast forward. On the only broker they have ever found that really truly answers the phone 365 days, 24 hours a day. Yeah. No, that's one of the days. Yeah, man, and I agree with that. I truly do, because especially when you're getting in the door with a customer, like everybody, like again, everybody wants that opportunity to be like a pickup at noon on a Tuesday and delivery fucking, you know, like it's going to be a Friday night, last minute, 10 pm pickup has to deliver at 6 a.m. Saturday morning style of opportunity. That's just the way it always goes. Like at least for me, maybe I'm fucking bad. But every new customer that I've ever brought on, John, has always been the first shipment was an oh shit last minute, our entire current network dropped the ball. You're the only one who's been following up with us. Or I'm the last person that reached out to them and they reach out to me and it's four o'clock on a Friday. And I answer the phone. What's up? You know, and they're like, hey, this is what we got. I'm like, all right, I'm on it. Let's roll because I've just been conditioned to that because I've had to build books of business from scratch multiple times. I've never been afforded the luxury of, well, I can't say that I was handed a very large account at when I was working at XPO that I got to work, but I was there as the carrier rep while we were building it. So like I was there from the very first shipment that we moved with it. So I felt like I had earned the right to work that shipment to Saturday mornings and the Sundays and the holidays and everything else that I invested in it. But going in and starting over from scratch at a startup brokerage. And then at this one now that I'm starting at Freycoach logistics and starting from scratch, I know what it is going to take. I know that the amount of outreach that I'm doing right now is going to lead to an opportunity where fuck if my phone rang right now, I would say John, I'm pausing the episode. We got to go, I got to take this call. Same thing. Respect. You know, and that's the thing, man, is it's like, I know that that's what it takes if you're going to build something up because I think over these last couple of years and building up my consulting business, like again, I value a customer's relationship so much more now because they're entrusting me in giving me an opportunity to earn their business. Because like I think so many people, it's like that churn and burn mentality of all just find another customer. And it's like, well, wait a second. Do you know how hard it is to actually onboard a customer and then keep them retained? I think like that's because again, it's like that constant value that you have to add because I say this a lot, man, you you can you can you can do a thousand shipments with a customer. But if you fuck one, like the thousand and first one isn't guaranteed, you have to earn that business. - Absolutely, absolutely, 100%. And it comes down to execution. It also comes down to communication. Well, I have, I mean, I'm gonna tell you what, our families, our lives, things just get dust, convobulated, you got kids coming in, dogs coming in, you just got everything going on. It happens all the time. I've got a client in West Virginia that all the time the freezer man doesn't show up. The pretzel machine that they use to make pretzel mix breaks down, right? The order's supposed to be ready at 10. And then he calls me up and says, "John, it's ready at five. I need you to slow down the truck." Now, you know how that goes when you have to call carrier. And they're ready to pick up at 10. And you gotta say, "Hey, man, it's not gonna be five o'clock before it's ready." You know, you're gonna, "I ride on the back end of that." But that's part of your job, right? That's part of your, you're there to communicate properly. So, and I train my clients, "Hey, I'll fix it. I'm the fixer. That's what you pay me to do." All I need to know is as soon as you know, so I can fix it. - Yeah. - Well, if you give me that, I'll handle it. If I have to cut the truck loose and get another truck because that truck doesn't wanna wait, that's what we'll do. And I'll give the carrier the choice. Hey, you can wait. I understand. I told you 10 o'clock, but shit happens. This is trucking. But hey, I'll, you know, and make, hey, I'll throw you an extra hundred bucks if you wanna wait. Nine out of 10 times, if you talk to 'em good, they'll wait, it's no big deal. - Yeah, I think it's out, you know, with that communication literally solves, I'll say 100% of your problems in life. I think a lot of people are so avoidance of that 'cause they always build it. Like, and when I say they in a lot of these instances, like this was me, I fucking built up so many of these scenarios in my head to be so much worse without actually picking up the phone and doing it. And then after a while, I realized, holy shit, people are actually cool with it. 9.9 times out of 10 if you just call 'em with ample time, and you don't wait, you know, 'cause bad news never gets better in time. Rip the fucking bandaid off, deliver that news. And then again, I love your point there because I agree with that wholeheartedly. My customers pay me to deliver that news. My customers pay me to deal with these things. Because again, anybody out there who's like complaining about, oh, my customer did this and this and this, I'll take 'em, you make a money on 'em, I love making money, send 'em my way. I'll take care of 'em right now for you. I'll take 'em off your hands. I'll deal with the bullshit. That's fine, because that's what I'm getting paid to do. - And every time the phone rings is an opportunity to make money, it's an, you know, when those problems happen, it's, you know, every time the phone rings is money, that's the way I look at it, when my phone rings, that's money. - Dude, that's a good one. - And if it's like, John, they're going to you over your competition in those moments. Yet so many people are like, I don't want to take this call. You know, everybody wants to be a millionaire at a nine to five schedule and have five weeks of paid vacation and they don't want to deal with, you know, fuck that, bring it on. Like, my guest who was on today's episode, this is the ninth of December, his name was Brandon Bay. And we were talking, he was like, man, he's like, I love the shitty lanes. He's like, they don't need my help on power lanes. He's like, I'm going in there for the shitty lanes that nobody else is on. And that's my approach on a lot of things too. I can look at a bid sheet and know, all right, I'm not going to be competitive on this, this, this, and this is an asset heavy lane. They're going to be significantly cheaper than me on this stuff. And frankly, that's where all their incumbents are and they're sitting in there. So you know what, I know that lane sucks. I'm going to bid on that one. I know that's fucking ugly. I'm going to bid on that one too. And then guess what? It's like the reverse Christmas tree, where I'm going to start at the bottom. And then eventually, I'm going to fucking own the entire network in time because if you can service their shitty freight exponentially in due time, you will have all of their freight. It just absolutely wants to commit to the work that it takes to get to that level though. I'll tell you a quick story. I love getting brokers fired. I'm going to use in a good example. When I'm drinking water. So on November, so on, on, on election day, 2020, November of 2020, TQL got a load. My client gave TQL load. And he said the TQL agent told him it's election day, there are no trucks. Swear to God, that's what he said. There's no trucks because it's election day. So he calls me, John, man, I got to get this left, Contextus moved. TQL gave me some kind of bullshit. That was his words, not mine, some kind of bullshit. And then I said, right, are you serious? They said there's no trucks because it's election day. Posted the load, they was a truck needing to go to Arkansas. My low went to Lutkin, Texas. I called the guy up and I said, look, I can't get you to Arkansas. But I can get you pretty damn close. I figured Texas and Arkansas is pretty damn close together. You can surely find a load to go to. Yes, sure, man, take it. Within an hour and a half, I had the truck secured, smashing bugs, hauling ass toward Texas. That was the last day that TQL overhauled. Yeah, man, and I just think though that everything, again, every customer that I've ever onboarded was because somebody fucked up or somebody told them, there's no trucks, which you can't, there's a truck right now for any load out there. How much money are you willing to pay? That's all it boils down to. It's out like there's a truck for every land in America if the money's right. All right, it's that you get in. If somebody will go to fucking rural Montana right now at this juncture, they will fall off another load if that money pays better. That's just the reality of this industry. And a lot of people have a hard time accepting that this is the way that freight is. 100% I've done it a ton of times. Obviously, you know, and I call that buying a truck. That's what I tell my client. Absolutely. I truck you are buying a truck on this particular move. How deep do you want to go? Yeah. And that's the way it works. That's exactly it, man. As you know, again, it's like, and you have to be willing to have those conversations with your customers, you know, because again, and it's also, I'm of the mindset like this too. I know early on in my career, like if a customer turned my quote down earlier in the day, and then they came back to me later on in the day, I used to like, oh, it's a four o'clock upcharge and everything else, but like now, man, I'm like, if I know I can get it done for the original rate that I quoted you, I'm gonna be like, I'll send it over. Let's roll, you know, like I'm not gonna play those games because again, I know in brokerage, you make it in volume. And then you make it and they're gonna eventually give you more freight. All right, they're gonna give you more opportunities. And the next time you quote them, they're gonna take your rate no matter what, because you service and when your service backs up, your pricing, you will become, I don't wanna call it like their oh shit option, but there's like, I think of it like this man, 10% of every customer's providers that are set up with them, they will pay whatever they need to to those providers because they constantly show up for them. They answer their phone at 7 p.m. on a Friday night or 4 a.m. on a Saturday morning, and they get shit done for them. It's no matter what they call you answer, eventually it will get to a point. It's not gonna be after five shipments you guys. Eventually you will get to a point where you can quote your customer whatever, within reason of course, like you're not gonna quote them $10,000 for a 100 mile run, they'll be like, are approved. But you're gonna get to a point where they're not gonna question it because regardless, you can be three to $400 higher than everybody else, but they know when you say my truck will be there at 2 p.m. at 1.58 your fucking trucks going through their gate. And it's arriving a 100% of the time. - Absolutely 100% right. And here's the thing like with my business mix now, it's obviously much different than what it was when I work for 3.0. About 65% of my, so let me back up. I do about an average of about 466 full truck loads or quoted LTL a month, which when I say quoted LTL as I quoted and then I got a manually punched and tendered over to the particular carrier. With that being said, 90% of my freight is hauled by core carriers. So I've built those relationships, right? So when Nate says, hey John, I got a PNG on December 30th or January 4th, I say, okay, and then I hang up the phone, I call Chuck. They send Randy down on the third, we got a PNG. Okay, we're done, that's it. It's over. So 90% I do, I have a lot of relationships. So 65% of my business mix, it's just the clients say, John, I've got a shipment going here and I say, okay, the rates are already in place. And I have some clients that just give me the load and then I can put whatever I want on the bill. Whatever I want, I have several of those clients. Then I have about 35% of my mix where they'll say, hey John, how much does it cost to go from A to B? I give them a number, okay, set it up. And then 5% a very small portion of my business, about 5% I actually compete with other brokers. Very, very little. How do you manage that many shipments as one person? 'Cause I think, again, it's, it can be, I'll call what it is, man, it can be overwhelming at times. When you got shit coming at you from every angle, so it's like what systems do you have in place or a lot of your customers, EDI, do you have like an RPA that a bot that scrapes your email and builds loads for you and everything? Like how do you work through this, man? I do it all by myself. I have. no EDI or customers whatsoever, I'm manually type of meant. Of course, obviously if I've run the same lane before, it's just a copy/paste change dates type thing, right? But if it's a new lane, I type in the addresses, pick up time, pick up numbers, just like anybody else. Here's the thing. Remember what I said, 90% of my carriers, because I've trained them, I've conditioned them to do the same lanes. So if I don't hear from them, I know everything's fine. So we'll use the example today. I had 24 loads today, 24 of those 24 19 regular carriers. Love it. Love it. They already know what they're doing. So I can track and trace five or six loads, right? Yep. Now I've got now three of those loads this afternoon, eight, nine, ten, they were to break those loads. And I had to obviously get on those pretty quick. But like I said, nine out of like I said, 90% of the time, and then I get a text delivered. I push my delivered button on my TMS and we're done. I love it. Dude, I like because I preached that all the time. I preached that all the time about having a core carrier based and it's identifying lanes that carriers already run and instead of trying to force a carrier to run it, landed a Charlotte, for example, when they're telling you, I want to run it landed in Nashville. I don't want to go to Charlotte. You know, and again, it's like if you find that mix again, it takes effort and that's one that's like a common denominator. I think that a lot of people don't want to put out there is effort. They just want to like post a load and then have all this inbound calls. But it's like taking that approach to it, man. Like you can move a shitload of freight with, you know, because again, like I had mine was at 85%. I was moving 85% of my freight with a core carrier base because I just ran a region. Like I call it my like my little triangle of death is because I lived in Reno, Nevada at the time. So I did everything from Reno to LA over to Phoenix and back up to Reno. That was my target market that I went after for all my shippers and all my carriers. And I was like texting and covering 10 loads with two trucks with two trucking companies. Hey, I have this load this day and this day and this day boom, send them all over. And then same thing with the other one, send them all over. And it was like I was covering 20 trucks or 20 shipments with two trucking companies. There you go. And here's the great part about once you build those relationships. So I'm going to use an example. I run a lane three times a week from Kansas to West Virginia. It's flower to make biscuits, right? And it goes into a big franchise called Tutors Biscuit World. They have about a hundred franchises. And obviously, you know, this runs on, I mean, like clockwork, right? So my regular carriers, when they haul that, I pay them significantly more than if I go off the board, right? See, they know that they know what the market is. They're not stupid, right? So they know. So when I get a, so when my regular carrier does it, so when Chuck doesn't, he gets a, he knows he's getting a premium pay. So he's going to give me premium service. Now I can make, I can cover that load for $700 less by posting it on the board. But do I cheat on Chuck? Absolutely not because cheap because Chuck does me good service. And he bells me out. So if a customer gets a hot load, forgets an order, customer just called I need this. I call Chuck. And I said, Chuck, send Randy's, send daylight with one of the drivers just send it, send somebody down there to pick us up. Get it on the truck. And so he's scratching my back. I'm scratching his. So it's a win win. Dude, and I'm right there with you, man, is that, you know, because I, I don't believe in the nickel and diamond portion of this anymore. Like again, I'm not immune to a lot of the shitty behaviors that brokers are notorious for out there. Like I've done it, but I've learned the hard way in a lot of situations. Like a lot. I don't have time to go through and fucking talk about every single one of them anymore. But what I've learned is that value piece right there. Because again, I'll make my money in volume. I want to pay a carrier above market value. So especially if they're communications on par if they're servicing, if my customers are calling me and telling me I want that driver back here, I'm going to overpay that carrier 10 times out of 10 to get them to come back. Because absolutely. My customer's happy. I get afraid. If my carrier is happy, I get more afraid. Again, I don't understand that at this point in my career in my life, I don't understand that all this posted up there and try and make an extra $400 today. I'm not really in to roll the dice and risk the integrity of my relationships with my customers to try and make a couple extra bucks. Because at the end of the day, $400 isn't going to change your life. $4,000 isn't going to change your life. You know, like you got to be thinking constantly about the next 12 months because it's not about the next 12 seconds, which a lot of people live and die by the spot market. They're like, oh, I'm going to just worry about today today. And I'll figure out tomorrow tomorrow. You got to be planning ahead. You got to think of the next three, six, nine, 12 months out of the year. I want to work with the same customers. I don't want to reshuffle my cost my book of business every three months. And then I got to shuffle my carrier book of business every three months as well. You're working against yourself at that point. 100%. And that's the thing is you want to retain. And when I work for a 3PL, I was on a management call every morning. And this went through me. Now, first off, you're a steward of your money. And I respect that, right? I'm a steward of my money. And I'm going to respect a business that's a steward of their money, right? They, you know, so we would be on a call with the president of the company. And he would say, if you can't make 20% margins on your customers, I want you to fire them and get new ones. I just went right through me, right through me. I heard it every day. Now, I'm thinking these are good people. They're a steward of their money. They pay good. These are some of these were big companies like big companies, enterprise companies. And you want me to find in customers, they just don't make them every day. You know, they're not, you know, I mean, customers don't come. A dime. It doesn't exactly. And I'm thinking that is such the wrong attitude. You know, I've got a shirt that Jason, you know, says relationship matters in the back of the shirt says I'm sending every one of my customers. I spent two grand on shirt. He shirts. And the back of the, in the back of it says my freight broker is awesome. John A. Rogers. My phone number and my email address. I love it. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm that I because and here's the other thing. I got a client that followed me from my previous job. And they are a half a million to $600 million profit client. One client, $600 million, $600,000 a year. And I said, I went to my boss and I said, Hey, I'd love to send them a subway sandwich. You know, we're lunch. Oh, man, we just don't, we just don't do business that way. I said, Are you kidding me? These guys were making 600 G's, three million in cash flow. And I can't send them lunch. No, no, we just, we just don't do business that way. I paid for it out of my pocket. Why do you think they followed me? Because I gave them great service. I took care of them. These same guys. I was up these same guys. I met them last year, being my wife did. We said if the bar had a hood, I had a $300 bar tab, it was great. We had a wonderful time. But it said it was the mindset. It's like we don't, you know, like I saw all, you know, like my bonus. You know, so, you know, I was turning out $120,000 in profit, right? They were paying me 4% as a bonus. They were banking the rest. This is bullshit. I want to get a piece of this pie. So I left and I went with the work for myself. Yeah, man. It's all, I'll take the bet on myself any day of the week now. At this point, John, I'll never take a W2 from anybody else ever again. I'll never, I'll figure it out. I'm confident in that. If I turn, if I was able to turn to survive over these last couple of years, you know, because like I wasn't brokering, you know, like I was doing consulting work. I was doing all of this stuff. And I figured it out. And I, you know, I just closed it. I've just bought my first house about 10 weeks ago. Now at this point, October 1st, I cloned, you know, we moved in to it and everything. So it's like the way that I see it, man, if I can figure it out in the middle of a pandemic, I'll figure it out any fucking day of the week. And I'm just, I'm addicted to the thrill. I'm addicted to the thrill of knowing. And especially like, man, there is nothing more encouraging to me to like look at everything in my house now. And just feel like I paid for that. I paid for that off of what I built, you know, it's fucking, it hits different. It hits different for me. And it just, it's like, I don't, like I don't believe in motivation. Like yeah, it's a thing, but motivation fades off. But it's that fucking gratitude now of knowing that you know what? If I need something, I just got to fucking work for it. That's it. I'll figure it out. That's where I'm at with everything in life. I will figure it out. Whatever you need, if my wife comes to me and says, I want this. All right, baby, give me, give me an X amount of time. I'll have it for it. Absolutely. Now I do the same with my class or one of my, so hey, John, can you ship this? Does it eat? Nope. I can ship it. I had a, last year at a client said, hey, John, I need to get some chemical, or well, two, I had to, I need to get some chemicals to Hawaii. And I need to get these five toats to Pakistan. I'm like, give me a day on the Pakistan or two and give me a couple hours on the Hawaii. Yeah. For sure. You just, you just got to figure it out. And guess what? LinkedIn, I've connected myself with professionals, right? Hey, who's the, I need some drainage help or I need a container. I've got a new client that is a huge international container company, huge company. So when the container, so they lease the container, so when they're at their life's end, they sell them to me and you. Businesses, residential, you might want to put your lawnmower in them, right? They had a, and I got them off LinkedIn through posting, they had a, they have a broker that's not doing a good job. Horrible, horrible job, just not performing. And I didn't know what a landal was. You know, I had no idea, right? But I said, let me figure it out, see if it's a good business for me. I did a little research, took me, took me five or six days, put some numbers together that made sense for me and then and we're doing business. We start going business Monday. Yeah. No, absolutely, man. And that's the thing is it's like, because I talk about niche base selling a lot and I'm a fan of it because I feel like at the end of the day, there's more freight inside of a niche than most people realize. But what I don't want anybody to get confused on is if that niche based customer comes to me and says, hey, we need to import this load from this place, I'm going to figure I'll have the right to figure it out at that point. If I can't do it, though, I will let them know like, hey, that's not my specialty, but I'm going to put them in contact with somebody that I know. I'm going to facilitate them so that I'm never going to say, like, oh, no, no, I want nothing to do with that. And then just not even give them a solution. I'll provide a solution, whether it's coming for me or coming from a trusted partner that I know that can execute it upon it better than I can because I'm just all about the life cycle and the value that I can add because again, I bid off more than I can chew early on in my career and it costs me a lot. And I just if it's not something that I can say, yes, I have an answer for you. Yes, I'm confident in it. I will find a solution for them one way or another. But I feel like for a lot of people, is they chase freight markets around the country. They're like, oh, that's hot up there. I'm going to all of a sudden start call calling in that area. No, no, no, no, no, it's hot. I'm going to go start calling over there and they wonder why they can't gain any traction. It's because they're fucking all over the place with their approach. But if I have an existing partnership with the customer, I will do everything that they bring to my table. I that like it's my duty. If I can't at this point in my career, if I can't figure it out, it's got to be a shipment of fucking unicorns going to Antarctica at this point where, you know, like that's the only way. But if it's like a new customer, like somebody who I don't have a relationship with and I know that that's not my specialty. And I'm not going to risk a relationship, a long-term relationship because I want to see if I can maybe figure it out. I'll just put them in contact with the people. I have a very vast network. If somebody needs something shipped to Pakistan, I got seven people in my phone right now. I can call and be like, "Hey, this is the person you need to talk to. They can move on because you will never be punished for doing the right thing." Correct. And, you know, one of the ways that I've grown my business is through referrals. And obviously, you know, asking the way to ask for referrals, all that stuff. And if you get a referral, you've already won half the battle at least, right? You know, and here's one that's a recent pick up in the last three or four months. I do, I bid for a company that does bids for the prisons. Yep. And so you're delivering food goods to prisons. They bid on it, right? So a lady worked for him named Amy. Amy didn't like the drive. She went to work for another company who's a software company in the gambling field. Yep. They don't know anything about trucks. They don't know anything about shipping. They really don't, right? But the software that goes in these slot machines and roulette wheels, it can't be compromised. Yep. Like because these are a million dollar machine. You mean, I've done that before. The Gaming Commission has to load it and the Gaming Commission has to offload it in this trailer. If the trailers tampered with, they reject the entire shipment and you're fucked essentially. Absolutely. And it's got to be secured. And people sign for it. Absolutely. So I get this call from her and she's like, you know, hey, you were a referral from Dan. He said, you're the guy to do this. And I didn't, you know, immediately go in for the sale, you know, especially in this, you know, this is something I've not heard of. I've not been in, this is a niche market for sure. I mean, we probably spent 45 minutes just conversating about what her expectations are. Yep. And then I set my expectations. I knew there wasn't any other freight brokers that I had to worry about at that point. But, you know, and so, you know, I spent time getting to know aiming. Oh, you're from New Jersey. Why did you, why did you leave Dan and come here? Oh, it was a drive. Oh, and you have children. Yes. She called me during the hurt because I live where the hurricane in hit, right? She texted and called me 10 times until I picked up my phone to make sure I was okay. And I've never met her. But I take care of her freight like it's my own. I'm as involved in their supply chain and their logistics. I know they're freight better than I do. I know that that I need to be at Gordon's Food Service at four o'clock to make my four-mill eight o'clock and Gordon's Food Service unloads early. I mean, unloads fast, but Fort Meal might take six hours. Like I know how these grocery warehouses work, how these food warehouses work, how these DCs work. And I know the freight and I know how to structure because I do a lot of multi-stops too in the food side of things. And I know how to structure that load and how to set those appointments. So that there's no late fees and the drivers are happy and everything just runs smooth. Yeah. I love that, man. That's what it's all about is it is creating that that you provide so much value to your customers in those instances. Because again, I think like if people are actually committed, truly committed to building up something and actually adding value to their customers, they'll never be nickel and dime by a customer. They'll never like you will actually understand how much freight really moves out there. Once you can get past that beginning phase because a lot of people I think, you know, because again, you start out on the shitty lanes, you know, like let's call them what it are. They're not the most appealing lanes out there. There's trucks for them. I'll cover them, send them my way. But what I think a fatal error that a lot of brokers make is once they graduate past the shitty lanes and they start getting some of the power lanes, they stop accepting the freight that got them there. And then there's a guy like John Rogers and Chris Jolly who's calling emailing, reaching out. I'll do it. I'll do it. And then they get complacent in that business. And then they forget that the lane that you start on is your defense lane. Now you execute upon that no matter what because that keeps the Chris Jolly's and the John Rogers out of your customers' ears because you're executing upon what they needed. They don't need your help on that stuff. And then when you get that good freight, you can't forget about the freight that got you there because otherwise, that's my in. That's all I need is for you to fuck up one of those loads. And then I'm in. And then you will eventually be out. And also you and I, even with some of these big companies, can't hurt them in their transportation. And let me explain how I mean. So one of my clients is ADM. So they're one of the largest producers of flour baking soda. So I had I had so I do a customer pick up there. And the logistics manager there locally in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania is a lighting name Amy, Amy, Amy. And I would say to Amy, you know, hey, is this pot? Does this ready? Oh, yeah, come in or if it's packed earlier, hey, you can come in and get it today. And I would always ask her for business. And she says, John, I'm just not taking on any other brokers. And that's what she would say. And I say, Amy, do you mind if I just touch base with you once a month? Check in. Absolutely not, John. Next month, same thing. So I'm keeping my self fresh in her mind, right? Well, guess what? Somebody finally screwed up. And they screwed up pretty bad. But it was a carrier. It was a carrier that screwed up. They were bringing in drop trailers. They weren't bringing in the trailers fast enough. The one would have a hole in it and she would call them up and say, hey, come and then it would be three days before they do it, even though they tell her it was going to be done the next day, right? So the carrier just was not a good performing carrier. But from an RFQ perspective, that's who the corporate people said they got to use, right? So they got to use this carrier because of rates. So she finally says she says, here's what I'm going to do. She says, I'm going to sign you up and give you and give you their lanes. Wow. And I told, and here's what I told her. I said, Amy, just take what I didn't even ask for the number. I didn't ask for the number. I said, whatever you pay them, add $250 to it and give it to me. That's what I told her. Yeah, add 250 wherever it goes. Just add $250. Well, in this market, obviously it's soft. This carrier, by the way, when some lanes are, is like 475, 510, a mile. Wow. I'm moving the stuff for 230, 240, 250. That's how I got in there. is because I kept keeping myself in front of her, my name in front. And I'll tell you how that I learned that. Let's say when I was in a car business and let's say you come to my dealership and you bought a, and I sold Honda's. - Yeah. - You come in and I said, "Hey, Chris Jolly." And you test drove it, but you didn't buy it. I call you next day, I said, "Hey, Chris, "I wanted to see what you and your wife "thought of that Honda." You know, John, it just didn't fit us. We bought a Toyota. I'd say, "Chris Jolly, man, "Toyotas are great vehicles. "Congratulations." - Yeah. - Chris, do you mind if I go ahead and continue to follow up with you maybe every couple, three months and senior texts? And the reason why I want to do that is maybe when you're ready to buy something in the future, you'll remember me. You'll probably have a family member that may need a vehicle, gets wrecked, or somebody you work with, and you might refer them to me. - Yeah. - Sure, everybody says yes. Yeah, sure, John, no problem. I would even go a step further. I would, I would go a step further. Send him Christmas cards. And I kept my name fresh. So then when the trading cycle comes three years later, right? Everybody trades three, three and a half years. They remember me because, man, John Rogers is fresh. He touched me 15 times. He touched me 12 times throughout the year. I stay fresh in their minds. So that's playing a long game. - Yeah, man, and that's exactly it. That's why you got to be committed to the long game. Because again, man, like I, some people, it might take 18 months of prospecting. But again, it's going to come at a point in time. Like I say this whole hot, man, I will always bet on somebody fucking up at some point. You know? So for me, it's gonna get to a point where somebody, is there gonna reach out to somebody? And who is it gonna be? Is it gonna be me or is it gonna be John Rogers? Well, it's gonna be me. 'Cause I'm gonna follow up last. I'm gonna be there. I'm gonna be in front of them. And I'm gonna let them know. Again, when a customer tells me they're good for now, but I can follow up, I'm done selling from the, hey, I have trucks available. Hey, I have trucks available. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just value value value. I'm not, I'm doing that right now, man. I have probably 15 prospects that I'm talking to right now that they've told me that they're good. They're not adding anybody right now. And I'm just gonna, hey, I'm just gonna send you some article. Are you cool with, you know, if I send you articles of interest, they're like, yeah, that's fine. I have zero expectations. I don't say anything other than, hey, I saw this article. I think it might be of benefit to you because it talks about freight theft. Have a great day. Hey, I saw this article. It talks about hot spots for trucking. If you have any freight moving on this route, might be of benefit for you to not have your driver stop at these locations. And that's it, man. That's my expectation with them. And that's all I plan on doing. If, and here's the thing, John, at the end of the day, if I don't win business from them at all, that's fine. That's fine because eventually I will because if you do enough good out there, it will come back to you full circle. It might not come from them. But who's not to say that they know somebody, be like, hey, this guy reaches out to me all the time. I can't set him up. But maybe you will work out for you. Fuck, I don't know. But here's one thing that I know. I'll never find out if I don't try. All right, it's that simple. - Yeah, I mean, if you never ask, the answer's always no. - Exactly. The man, dude, I feel like we could talk for like 17 straight hours about this stuff, man. I love your energy and I love what you're doing out there. And at the end of the day, man, you're doing what you got to do to provide for your family. I respect hustle more than anything, man. So how can you be to reach out to find out more unless they're to shipper who wants to give free, call me and I'm just kidding. But I was, if anybody wants to reach out to you, to find out more, man, how do they find you, John? - Obviously you can call me at 304-964-3950. That's 304-964-3950. J Rogers, that's letter J-R-O-G-E-R-S at chip-sh-i-p-l-d-i. - I love it, man, John. Thank you so much for joining me and sharing. If you guys made it this far in the episode, chances are you're already subscribed. But if you're not and you saw a value in what we just talked about here today, you guys, share the show. Subscribe, share the show. It helps everything out. That's how we have grown to be the top podcast in the industries through each and every one of you. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon. ♪ Right that the earth is mine ♪ ♪ For right let the ambition ♪ ♪ You know I'm gonna get it every time ♪ ♪ Check the yaw wearing the crown ♪ ♪ I can see my name and lights ♪ ♪ Spot from the hall in the shine so bright ♪ ♪ Yeah let the whole world know ♪ ♪ Let's go let's go let's go ♪