#237 - The $3,500 Tax Lien Land Deal That Almost Got Him Arrested with Caleb Richardson

How did we get here from just a simple $3,500 tax lien? How am I all of a sudden being saved or weren't ready to ready to go to jail? Well, here's like, hey, gonna put you guys as primary lean holder on the property now since it's vacant. And you guys have been paying the taxes, which we paid them for roughly three years now since 2023. And then that was when we found out we were pregnant. So then I was just like, okay, I'll be in over my head. Gotta put this on the back burner. We'll put it on the back burner. The year goes by and our lawyer's like, yeah, you boys should be good to step out on the property. You can hunt it. You have legal access to everything. And I'm thinking, okay, cool. Well, I got this little deed that says I have access here. We're about to go hunt it. We're going to kill giants on this. We just basically essentially have a lease until we can buy. And that was the furthest thing from the truth. We walk out there and we get cameras out. And within 48 hours, I have the local Sheriff's Department calling me with a worn out for my arrest and telling me it would work a whole lot better if I just turned myself in. (upbeat music) - All right, Kale, welcome to the LAN podcast. How you doing? - Well, I'm doing good, man. Thanks for having me. - It's a pleasure. We have a lot of exciting things to talk about here today. I think we're going to scratch. It's not every episode, but I think we're going to scratch some stuff that we haven't covered here on the podcast. And we'll get into that later. But before we get there, who are you? Where are you from? What do you do for a living? - Okay. My name's Caleb Richardson from Birmingham, Alabama. And do anesthesia on a daily basis. I'm a certified registered nurse and ethicist. And I've been doing that for roughly seven years. Working here in Birmingham. I work some shifts up in Illinois, Michigan, Tennessee, kind of all over. And that's always looking for deer hunting land while I'm on the road and working at the same time. So it never really shuts off. And you know, I've found your podcast listening a lot of ways, you know, back and forth on the road, and up the road, so. - Yeah, that's cool. Did you know you wanted to do that for a career? Or like, when did you, like, man, I'm going to go to school for a long time and do this? - So in all honesty, I think I knew, probably when I was 12 or 13 years old. We had a school shadow day, like in middle school. And I went in and shadowed one of my friends' parents at the time. And I was like, this is what I want to do. Like this is the coolest thing ever. And it made sense to me. So it's a little bit of a road to get there. You have to go in and do, you know, your time at the bedside in the ICU and then go back to grad school and then start your career. Sorry, doctor, go straight to home with the kid. But yeah, it's been a journey, but I've kind of known I've always wanted to do it for, you know, a long, long time. - Yeah, that's super cool. So then on kind of the same theme of a question, when did you know you wanted to own land? We were talking a little bit beforehand. It sounds like some of your folks and your family or your extended family have a love for land or maybe not. - Yeah, yeah. Well, so some people do and some people don't. I married into a family that didn't really have a love for land. It was just kind of, my wife's always been a city girl and her family's always lived in the city, but my family's always grown up in the country. I've got, you know, my parents bought 20 something acres when we were younger, I guess 13, 14 years old. And that kind of inspired me to want to do it because I got to go hunt with my dad on land that they owned and help him improve it. And then I've got uncles who have hundreds of acres of land and they've kind of encouraged me and pushed me along the way. They're like, "Hey, just go buy land." Like it's gonna hurt, go buy. So I've been working towards that goal for a long time and finally made it happen. - That's cool. So your uncles out on hundreds of acres, are they farmed? Are they just like land? Make sure they're both. A mixture of both, one of them is an investor primarily. He's always looking for a deal, always looking to get into something, use it for some rec, maybe even just flip it in general and not even use it. And then I've got a couple uncles that are one that's a, he's more of a cattle farmer than any row crop or anything but he does have some row crop ground as well but he just leases it out. But they just kind of buy stuff and looking forward and trying to build their portfolios and kind of encourage me to do the same along the way. So thankful for that and thankful for those things along the way. - That's cool. I'm curious with your uncles and investing in land. Do they ever, 'cause this was just on the previous episode, maybe a couple episodes by the time this goes live but like the great debate of land versus rental houses or land versus the stock market. Like has that ever come up in conversation and do you or they have an opinion? - Yeah, I've got one that feels very strongly about land and land only. He's more along the lawns of Mr. Higgins and that's his retirement, he's ready for that. And then I've got another one that's very heavily focused on rental properties and assets more so than rec land but he will buy rec land. But he's more focused on the rental things, condos, beach houses, stuff like that. But they've kind of given me different perspectives at least and I was just looking at you and I was like, I don't really want to lean towards the rental side of it and the corporate side, I'd much rather do the rec side if I'm going to build a portfolio that way. - Yeah, I think it's cool that you're able to kind of compare and contrast and get two really good points of opinion relatively very easy. So, married have a kid. Did that change anything about your desired own land to that, did that accelerate it? Or did we like, oh man, now I got more responsibility and I don't know if I should buy land or actually do something else with this, whatever extra money I'm able to scroll away. - It was kind of a two-fold situation honestly. Kind of when we figured out we were pregnant I was like, I wanted to experience the childhood that I got to experience. Carefree, out on the farm, jumping in mud puddles, jumping in the pond, doing whatever kids do. But at the same time, I was fearful of, like you said, it's all new change to me, it's changed to the family. Unexpected expenses, how am I gonna make enough money to cover something that's a dream of mine, which truly has always been a dream, but then looking at trying to cover that versus doing what you have to do to take care of your family as well. And the last thing I wanted to do is put my family in a bond for something like that. So, it was honestly kind of a doublefold both, but I think it accelerated the path to it more so than it did decelerate it. - It's interesting. - Just wanted to create those memories, one of those things that I long for, growing up as a kid that I won't, my wife will get to experience as we grow our family and get over as the years go by. - Yeah, no, that's super cool. So, how long were you a shopper, a land shopper? I'll call it. - For far too long, especially after listening to kids, my wife would tell you that I didn't wait long enough, but for five plus years, I've been consistently looking, you know, I'm a firm believer in, there was probably a lot of agents who really mad at me for wasting their time for going to look before I was ready to buy, but I wanted to know what I wanted in a farm before I pulled the trigger. And that was really important to me. I wanted to know what I liked, what I didn't like. And I'm grateful to have friends in the industry who were able to show me some farms and just were like, hey, we're just friends. I'm not an agent today. Let's go look at this farm. Let's see what you like about it. Let's talk about it. - Sort of what you experienced those things well before it was actually time to start moving. - What did you learn from that period of looking at different farms of like, yeah, I really like this aspect of this farm, but I really don't like what were some of the deal makers and deal breakers that you kind of maybe developed along that search period? Did you get more picky, less picky? 'Cause I think sometimes too, it's like, man, I looked at five farms and if I could take my favorite part about those five farms, I'd have the best farm ever, but you can't do that. And, you know, honestly, it was looking at it. Sorry, my kid is really unhappy. - That's all good too. - Looking at it, I really like the aspect of seclusion more than anything. - So like away from roads. - Away from roads. So from things that could be easily trespassed, easily poached from the roads, which in Alabama, there's quite a bit down here. I've done most of my deer hunting and stuff in Alabama and knew that if I'm gonna grow big deer down here and I'm gonna do what I wanna do and manage the land, I'm gonna have to have seclusion. So that kind of started limiting, you know, to where I was looking in Alabama. I learned also, like several people have always told me that like, you know, you can find non things right and you'll find one thing wrong. And you're never gonna find that perfect farm. And that's kind of where I'm at. And the biggest that has been to me is the seclusion factor, but then also the access factor. I love a perimeter access. I think it was the last episode, honestly, that you did the one with telechish. No, no, no, no, it wasn't telechish. You're not the EHD you would. But it was the one where the guy was setting up his photo shoots. - Mike, Michael, yeah. - Yeah, Mike, that was it. And he wanted the square, the rectangle property. I really liked that, the perimeter access. I was all those things. I was like, man, that was what was going through my head. Like now I actually, to hear somebody else say it, you know, it was validated. Like that was actually something that I can validate that I was looking for. And I feel like it's worth its weight, tinful. - Buckland funding, if you don't know who they are, [BLANK_AUDIO] When you're looking to buy a piece of ground, I encourage you to reach out to them. They're chartered in multiple states across the Midwest, and they understand recreational land. I've said it a million times during the podcast. The most important piece of buying your first piece of ground is finding a partner, finding a bank that understands what you're trying to do that has competitive rates and understands the world of recreational land because not all banks are created equal and Buckland funding understands our crazy goals of scooping up a piece of ground to enjoy it with family, to hunt it, to use it as an investment. They understand that and work with that every single day. I encourage you to reach out to them if you're in the process of buying your first or 20 of the farm, reach out to [email protected] back to the conversation. Those are good things and I think to the point of like you can find nine things that are awesome and you love it and then one thing you're like, "Man, I don't love it, but once again, even if you had like an unrealistic budget, I still don't know if you're going to be able to get something that's absolutely perfectly. There's always something. I think that's how that's anything. If you're shopping for a large purchase that's like, "Man, this checks off enough and I can live with it," which I think we'll lead into some other parts of this conversation. When we were talking about Forehand, you went from W2 to 1099. Why was that instrumental? I think most people I think probably know this, but for the long short of W2, they can tell you where to be and when. Usually, there's benefits. All these different things. 1099 is your independent contractor and I'm a 1099 guy, so I get it, and then also in your field too, I'd be curious, how does that work? In all honesty, I guess it's kind of the market kind of got hot for 1099 CRNAs, what they call locom, anesthesia providers. They got hot roughly around a year and a half, two years ago. Basically, it was because nobody anticipated the need for growing anesthesia markets. The schools weren't putting out enough students, they weren't meeting the demand, more docs are doing new procedures that require anesthesia, things like that. You've got this huge supply and demand issue and your shortage and basically 1099, you can come in and basically name your price to tell them when you want to work. It opened up flexibility for me as to where I could work, what I could and couldn't do, my schedules. I mean, I was having to take 24, 48 hour call shifts at the hospital after working five days during the week as well, and basically, we ended up working just tons of hours in these two and three weeks bands, and then just get eaten alive in Texas. The worst thing is a hot W2 income earner as far as when your goal is to save and invest and stuff, you're just getting eaten alive in Texas. Being able to do this 1099 kind of restructured the way that I'm able to kind of pay myself in a reasonable salary compared to what I have to claim as a W2, granted I don't have benefits if I do I can pay for them, but my wife's full time in healthcare too, so we use all of those benefits and then I do some investing on the side and then also sort of trying to build this land portfolio with some of that cash flow as well too. Alabama's in Mississippi and Tennessee, I think are pretty much the lowest paid healthcare states in the United States, so going outside of that bubble allowed me to make a lot more income and a short amount of time, and the goal initially was to pay off some stuff and my wife will get pretty mad at it, because she's like, "I know what you're going to do, you're going to come home so that you want to buy land," and I told her, "No, we're not going to do that. That's not what's going to happen, that's not the goal," and lo and behold, I hadn't paid anything off, and I started traveling for three months and then we're under contract for the farm, so she called it. She knew it all along, and she's been great during this journey, she's supported me this whole time, so I can't ask if anything else other than that, but she was definitely 1,000 percent right on that, she hit the nail on the hit. So it was, it sounds like somewhat a little bit of that sacrifice of traveling and going in 1099, that part of that care probably deep down was to buy land faster. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Don't let her listen to this episode. I'll only be in advance if you have to have that conversation, but yeah, it deep down if we're being honest, that's where it came from, but also to put ourselves in better financial situation, moving forward as well, and be ready to hit a home run deal if it came along. Yeah, and so when you worked through financing of being a 1099 versus W2, was there any additional hoops to jump through, or since I swim with your career? It's like, okay, you've been in this field. You have these certifications like your. Yeah, so basically the way your pay structure set up through like the LLC and the 1099 stuff, it makes it look like you make a lot less on paper than what you do, but it was kind of weird with the institution that I used down here in Alabama, like they wanted to see both sides of income, which I had worked for 3/4 of the year W2 anyway, so I had enough to qualify, but they were like, "Hey, you have three months of non-W2 income." And I'm like, "Yeah, I can explain why my salary is listed a lot higher than what you can see." And then they were like, "Okay, we see the numbers." And then I was like, "You know, if it makes you feel better, we could put my wife on there too, as well." And they were like, "Oh, if you put her on there, there was no question." So, once I kind of showed her that there was no volatility in my income and stuff like that, but I also have them all, "Wife is a backup." They were pretty good with it. I was honestly scared about that, though. That was one of the bigger things I was scared about, and everybody I talked to was like, "Why would you worry about that? You're a very high income earner W2, and then 1099, you're making even more." And I just was like, "I don't know what I don't know." And so, I had to dive into some options and talk to a ton of lenders, but finally I figured out what-- Did you get some lenders that were like, "Yeah, or--?" I got lenders that wanted me to put down more, they were okay with it, but they wanted me to put down a lot more than what I was just like, "Well, this isn't what you do for everybody else." This isn't what you do for my buddy two months ago, so what's an ideal-- like our income's you're close to the same, the only difference is, he's a W2, and I'm a hybrid, essentially. But then I talked to a-- to a in-house lender down here in Alabama, and they have a pretty special program. Honestly, if you have anybody that listens down here in Alabama, I'm sure they do it even in other states, too, but they have like a first-time farm buyer where they pull it like you put down 15% and gets you a pretty solid in-house interest rate, so that changed the game for me, thinking about having to go from putting down 15 to 25 and 30% like some people want me to do, because I was like, "I changed my budget pretty drastically, honestly." Yeah. Especially still trying to have, I'm pretty OCD about trying to have like a three to six month emergency fund, just being in the 10, not even a four-year-old, and I know you was like, "You're going to have some huge months and then some really low months." Yeah. So I'm trying to prepare for that volatility, it was just kind of like difficult, and then once I found somebody who was willing to work with me, it just went from there. So the-- I want to get a little bit of clarification on the-- on that specific loan. That was not like backed by the FSA or anything like that, that was just saying, like a special work at bank. Yeah, that was a ag bank down here in Alabama. Okay. Yeah, because I know there'll be people that could be confused from that. So because there's the F, I get questions about the FSA loans, usually you need two years to schedule F. I mean, it's a little bit more-- you can do it if you have those qualifications, but it's pretty, pretty stringent. We did an episode-- we did an episode, I gosh, I mean, it was probably three or four years ago now. That don't enter that more. So, okay, so this is-- I'm going to rip open a wounder, are you ready? I don't know if I am, this is something I need to pick up now. Tax lines. Yeah. Finding the deals of the century tax lines, what was that world like? Oh, man. So, honestly, before I'd come to the conclusion that I wanted to buy a farm out ride, I was like, you know, I don't-- and before I'd even changed my whole job income strategy, things like that, I was like, you know, the only way I think I'm going to be able to get into it is do a tax lane. I've seen people do it. I know people have done it. You spent too much on Instagram. So, you two get dark late at night. You get down to the record. I was like, you know what? I can do this. I was like, I'm pretty money savvy. I can do it. I talk to one of my best friends and his brother, and they were like, yeah, let's do it. And like, let's start doing this. And at first, we were like, you know, let's do some commercial properties, because one of them is in construction, and the other one does what I do. And we're like, we can do this. We got some certificates on some, made a little bit of interest back once people paid us back. But nothing crazy. And then we got this crazy idea one night sitting on my buddy's porch after we had formed our LLC. We're like, why don't we start trying to find vacant farmland that people have, you know, you know, circumstances if it came up where they weren't able to pay the taxes. Somebody passed away and, you know, didn't have it in a truss or wheel or anything. You're like, sit down to anybody. Let's try to do this. You know, so we started looking in and didn't really find anything to fit the bill. And, you know, I started writing some letters, knocking on doors, just talking to people of some land that I knew had been vacant for a while. And I was like, yeah, this looks like, I know it's a good deer neighborhood because we hunt there. I want to, I want to say if I can just buy it from them, just, you know, I know the old man that had it had passed away. [BLANK_AUDIO] His family was living out of state somewhere else. I was like, they're never here. It's grown up. Nobody's taken care of the property. I want to buy it. And that was a whole limbo for a year and a half and Facebook messages. I did everything to try to get in touch with them. Nothing. Well, then one day we're just flipping through. I see that it's on the delinquent tax list. I was like, okay. Well, hey, here's our chance. You know, it's like 80 plus hikers and you know, some of it's still a little. Yeah, bigger piece. Yeah. And it's, I mean, it's just got a lot of mature timber on it. A lot of mature wide out timber, which is huge and that part of Kentucky, especially with all the bourbon barrels and yeah, that market gets really hot from time to time. So I was like, if nothing else, I mean, it's got great timber value on it. And it's doesn't look like it's been cut in probably 50, 60 years. I mean, it's mature. So long as we're short, we acquire the tax lien on in it. And we're like, okay, man, this is awesome. You know, but we don't know where to go from there. None of us are lawyers with ripped that bandaid off, start studying. We hire a lawyer. We hire a lawyer that's, you know, roughly, he's on his way out of practice. And that that was our first mistake was hiring somebody who's on their way out of practice that doesn't really want to do this. Like older gentleman. Yeah, he's probably, I think he's like 62, 63. He's, he's ready to retire. And he's like, yeah, well, I'll handle it. We'll get all the paperwork filed this isn't that. And every county and state, everything has a different, you know, probation period before you can four clothes on it, which the time I didn't even know that you had to wait a certain period before you four clothes on it. You know, any of this was just new to the game. So I'm trying to help people from making a lot of the mistakes that I made or that we made me and my buddies made, but primarily me because I did a lot of the research. So roughly or you can say, it's up to you. How much did it take to buy the, you know, the delinquent taxes, 3500. There wasn't anything crazy. So you guys, so I just want to, I just want to paint the picture. I'll probably the next time you guys are on the on the porch. Yeah, you're like, yeah, I did. We bought an 80 for 3500 bucks. There's an X amount on here. We just smoked this out of the park. This is freaking awesome. Well, and that's, that's what I was thinking to my, in my head, I was like, you know what, 30100, we, we're coming out to the good, like even if we put the lawyer fees. Yeah, this is good. But what I didn't know was all the processes that had to be filed after that. I didn't understand it, especially in a state that I don't live in, and I'm trying to find all these processes on outdated websites that nobody updates ever. You can't get a hold of a county commissioner or a county clerk. It's virtually impossible. So long story short and I'll make it very short compared to how long I could make it. But, um, the 365 day probationary period rolls around and we get a call. The lawyer's like, Hey, you know, gonna put you guys as primary lean holder on the property now. Since it's, you know, vacant and you guys have been paying the taxes, which we paid them for roughly three years now since 2023. So I've kept them up, kept them. Current, obviously, so didn't go back to the tax sale. Um, and I knew the family wasn't paying it. So I was just like, we, you know, I'll keep it going. We'll figure this out. So then I was just like, okay, I'm in over my head. We put it on the back burner. The year goes by. And our lawyers like, yeah, you boys should be good to, uh, just tap out on the property. You can hunt it. I'm thinking, okay, cool. We're going to kill Johnson. And that's it. And that was the further thing from the truth. Um, we walk out there and we get cameras out and, uh, within 48 hours, um, I have the local sheriff's apartment, calling me with a worn out from our rest until I made work a whole lot better. If I just turned myself in. Did your, did your heart drop or like throat jump out of your mouth? Honestly, like, I was scared today. I mean, I have family who's, who's, you know, in law enforcement. So the media first thing I did was call them as soon as I got a phone. I was like, hey, what do I need to do? So I don't need to get listed and go to jail. We're like, you need to go up there and you need to talk to him or at least call them on the phone. I called him on the phone and I explained as like, hey, let me ask you. So, you know, yeah, Caleb, um, we have a worn out for your rest for X. Well, what was the reason you have to warrant? Uh, it was for trespassing on, uh, private property. And, uh, I was just like, okay, well, and it was clearly me. I mean, I, I mean, they've got pictures. But my game cameras got my cell phone number, my, it's got everything on it. Yeah. So if they really want to come down here, they're coming down to the recipe, but they're like, it's going to work a whole lot better for just if you just come up here and turn yourself in. And so I call my wife. I call all my family. Like, I'm freaking out. I'm like, I guess I'm going to, I guess I'm going to jail. I don't really know. So, um, I'm planning for that, trying to figure out, I'm like, how did we get here from just a simple 3500 or tax lane? How am I all of a sudden being, you know, but the server weren't ready to, ready to go to jail. And, uh, you know, I'm sitting there and for that point, I was like, all right, well, maybe I should back out of this tax lane game. Um, I feel like the juice isn't really worth the squeeze at this point. You know, I don't even know the processes in which I'm supposed to take after this. Um, it's been in limbo. And you know, we're still in limbo with this three years later now. Basically, the lawyers pair legal had falsely deeded us a property that she had no legal right to do so. And we clouded a title according to, um, the, uh, plaintiff attorney and suit us and all this other crazy stuff and, and, um, it just turned out to be a disaster more than what it was worth. You know, it was a million dollar a day on a back porch. Yeah. Just went south pretty quick. Um, and I wasn't prepared for that. So that was kind of the moment where I was just like, you know what, like, let's get out of this game. So was that the thing? Was it the thing? Was it the family that finally figured out, like, hey, this is going on or what? Like, well, so the gentleman that had passed away his family lived in another state that was legally deeded the property as his heir and then that person passed away. So then it went up in limbo. Nobody could get a hold of this person. Nobody could get a hold of any immediate family. I've still got the tax lanes on it. So I'm sitting here, like, trying to figure out, like, you know, the judge calls us. He's getting, he's like, Hey, I'm getting ready to deed you boys the property and this this and that. And then all of a sudden, 24 hours later, I've got, you know, an attorney, like, say, in threatening to sue us for, for cloud and title. And I'm like, how did we just randomly found family out of the woodwork and know about all this. And I just turned into a disaster. So we kind of gave up the tax lanes for Phytidom or so we thought and, uh, recently, as in less than 24 hours ago, um, as I'm trying to clear my hands of it, I just want to get my money back plus the interest at this point, um, we're like 90 days past payments to have it done it. So I was like, the only way to recoup some of those fees is just four clothes on it and send it to the master commissioner sale. So at that point, that's, that's what we're doing where, you know, if it comes up to the courthouse stamps and we can get it great. Then we can, you know, minus some of those expenses that we've incurred, but if not, we're just going to get our money back and be done with it. Wash our hands, cleans of it and, uh, by properties. The old fashioned way. And once you're really savvy with it and understand the law, it's, uh, it gets pretty hairy in some situations. Yeah, I wish, I wish I was more educated on that to even ask questions, which is kind of, you know, probably a mute point at this, at this juncture, but man, that's, that's a crazy, crazy way of emotions. And then also a very long out drop, drawn out process and the mental band with the stress associated with it, the legal counsel, you know, playing phone tag with turnies, trying to figure out what the heck to do, you know, too, but like none of that sounds fun. Yeah, especially with a newborn, like at the house and, you know, trying to handle that, along with juggle this other stuff. I'm like, man, this is just too much. Like, I've got a fun another way to get into land. I was like, this is not it. Yeah, from that point, I just kind of switched to trying to save up as much as I could and trying to like start changing how I was going to restructure things to where I could get into land pretty soon. So do you think that shortcut in real estate is not a viable path? If you're going to do it, you need to do it with somebody who is very savvy with a law who understands it, who understands all the legalities that you could get into. None of us understood that. Oh, could you done anything differently? I don't really think the only thing I think we could have done differently is instead of trying to like enter the property when we were falsely deeded the property as I think we didn't know any better though. We should have investigated that and then just said, you know what? I was like, this isn't even what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to file a foreclosure lawsuits. We haven't been paid back, send it to the master commissioner sale. And if we get it, we get it, if we don't, we don't. Like that's what we should have done. Like two years ago, three years later, just now, but it's, it's, you know, it hasn't been, you know, crazy. You know, but it's been, you know, just chipping some of the bucket here and there taking care of filing paperwork, getting rid of a, you know, a clouded title that we somehow got. I don't even, I don't even. know how the paralegal found a way to do it and get it, you know, yeah, I'm sorry, but we didn't question it. We were like, this is the property. This is what we want. Like, tell us how we can get it. Like, this is how we're trying to acquire it. And it goes back to, you know, we had a lawyer who's ready to retire. He's, he's ready. He's, he's just want to be done with it. Yeah, you'd almost need like a tax lien attorney. Yeah, essentially, it's, it's basically like, uh, it was basically like, I hired the guy that Michael Jackson hired to keep him asleep with the drugs instead of hiring somebody to do it. There was enough to where you can probably do it, but he might not do it. Great. Yeah, and that's where we're at. Like, he's like, he knew some of the stuff, but didn't know everything that that was going on that we needed to know, yeah, and it could have gotten us in a lot of trouble. I mean, luckily, I was able to, you know, talk my way through like with, with law and be like, look, like, I'm not knowingly, like trespassing. Like, I thought I had full legal right to be here. Yeah. Otherwise, I wouldn't have left a cell phone camera or a cell camera with your information. Yeah. And, you know, I was like, that's just, that's a poor poacher out there. Like, nobody would do that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and they were like, okay, okay, well, let's get this sorted out. And then finally, like, I just quit here and stuff about it. But the funny thing is is while we were even out there, we ran into somebody else who was hunting it illegal. I'm like, okay, well, we definitely at this point, like, this is just a disaster. Let's just cut ties and give somewhere else. Was it, was it a super, super rural area of Kentucky, like mega, mega rural? Super, it's, it's really secluded. Yeah. And it's not a lot of people that love other things. It's mostly just big ag and big timber, mostly just big timber surrounded by pockets of big ag. Yeah. Which is why at least a great deal on, that's, it's great, but, you know, could, could you imagine the horror of if you're like, all right, we got, we got it. And you had like already bit out the timber and you just freaking, oh yeah, smash the timber and then up, dude, I go, oh my gosh, I couldn't even imagine, we were already talking about it. So we could take that money and flip it into another farm that was for sale. I was just in here, I'm so thankful every day that I prayed for that situation to come to clarity and not work out because that would have been a disaster. Oh my gosh, yes, it would have, it would have been from bad to worse. Well, I mean, tax lanes, in my opinion, it's not worth the squeeze if you're trying to do it just to acquire rec land. Yeah. You got to be focused on, you know, you're getting your interest back with your income that you're using to free up things like that. You got to be okay with some of those risk or reward things and I'm just, I'm not okay with that anymore. I went through three years of a nightmare. I'm just like, let's just have my hands be done with it. As you know, the land podcast is presented to you by Onyx. If you're looking at buying land, Onyx is one of the first tools I open before I even step foot on a property. You can instantly see property boundaries, neighboring ownership, road access, and start to understand how a farm lays out before you even schedule a showing. Then once you're on the ground, tools like Lidar and Slope Angle help you evaluate how do you're actually using the property and where the real value is from a hunting standpoint. Whether you're buying your first farm or managing one, you already have Onyx helps you make better decisions and share it with friends telling you I use Onyx every single day and if you don't have Onyx and you sign up, I about guarantee you'll use it every day. If there's a tax lien expert listening to this podcast, I reach out to me, we'll get you on here. We'll bring you on here to cross examine them with your own questions. So on a lighter note, more positive note, so you kind of punt this whole idea and then now you're searching for a farm that you're going to get title insurance and a warranty deed. So walk us through kind of where you're at because you mentioned, you know, you've traveled around for work. This farm was in Kentucky. It was in Alabama, so I assume your search radius was likely larger than most. So this kind of we'll pick it back up and now it's all going to be fun stuff from here on out. Yeah. Thank God. Honestly, I've always wanted to have a farm, like a home farm here in Alabama just with it being something within hour and a half, two hours, not really further than that. And you can go that direction and either part of this, like any direction in any part of the state and fund, great deer hunting land. Right here where I'm at in Birmingham, it's just, I mean, you're running into which dealing with Midwest prices is nothing like dealing with Alabama, you know, paper company prices. It's dirt cheap compared to Midwest. But I mean, here in Birmingham, you're looking at farms that are going for 20, 25,000 dollars an acre for pasture land. And I'm like, it's not even, that's not doing anything for me. How big are some of those tracks? Like are they like 20, 30s, 40s? Some of them, some of them are two, three, 400 and they're, they're selling for that much. They're not really selling. They're selling on the market. Okay. Yeah. Is it, is the pitch like Birmingham urban sprawl or is it, everybody wants to be close to Birmingham? Okay. They're really, it's growing. But everybody, everybody likes the convenience factor of, if you get off work early on a Friday afternoon when a cold front comes in, drive 30, 45 minutes to the farm, get the tree, kill it here. Um, uh, no, several, several people that, that do that around here. But it's just, I was just like, I'm not willing to lose that much income to, to say I can do that. I was like, I'd rather just join a local hunting club. It's pretty close to where I can, you know, just fork out, you know, 800 to a thousand bucks to, to go sit there and a tree a couple of times if a, if a cold front comes in. But, um, I kind of ventured out like that hour and a half, two hour from, um, time from my house. Um, and I'd went out that way, simply just because I knew the genetics that were in the area, hunted that area as a kid, lands fairly priced there. It's extremely secluded and rural, um, but I was also, I also kept my open and Kentucky just because I've hunted there with some buddies, Illinois, I've hunted up there, you know, public land. I've never hunted any. Oh my gosh. We'll, we'll clip this part out. It's, it did bet dinner get burnt. We have super sensitive smirk around. It's hilarious. It's always something around here, man. I have a dog, I have a wife, it's always something. That's funny. Oh, let me, let me clap and then I'm going to make a note so I can send it to the editor. Oh yeah, you're good. 34, 35. Okay. Clap. So you were saying we had, we had a brief intermission, I think you're baking, the baking for this local arms. So you're talking about, you're talking about, um, even looking at Illinois and hunting, Illinois and hunting public land up here. Yeah. I've been hunting public land up there for five years and got on some really big deer. Never really. I shot at a giant deer. I'm not going to name the spot because I hate to do that for all the locals and everybody knows about it. But I missed a giant deer, um, two years ago up there and I've let a lot of deer walk up there that I probably shouldn't have, a lot of deer walk down here in Alabama that I probably shouldn't have. I'm not a great deer hunter. I let a lot of deer walk that I probably shouldn't, um, and it's, uh, it's gotten me in some, some pretty bad spots where I'm like, all right, well, I'm just eating tag soup again. I mean, all the, all the Illinois residents love me. I'm putting a ton of money into the, uh, department of conservation. We need more of you. We need more of you up here. I was like, you know, if you're looking at my success, we're looking at, uh, like, less than 20% success rate. So I'm not really hurting much of anything, and you know, I've been a gun tag every year too for a while. Oh, dang. Yeah. You're about it. Yeah. Well, but looking pretty much in those three states, um, if something came up, you know, I was looking more for a deal where my dollar could go a long ways on something that I could improve rather than get turned key. Um, I don't know, I, I like to put together visions in my head of something when I get ready to buy and, uh, especially after walking a ton of farms, I was like, hey, this is, this is what I really want in this farm. This is what I really want here. I was able to put those pieces together and, and find a place here in Alabama that fit that bill. And, um, man, it did it ever fit the bill. I mean, it's, I hate letting it go. Like I really, it's, it's one of the better deer hiding farms in, in the state. I mean, uh, I knew that when I bought it, um, I just didn't know how good it was. I didn't know how good it could be until I started making improvements and trail gamers. So how long have you had this farm? Uh, I bought it. We closed February 24th of 2026. Okay. Okay. So yeah. And then let me, was it listed? Did you add letter? Was it off market? Did someone bring you the deal? It was actually listed for, it was part of a bigger tract. Um, it was 225 acres total, um, a family from Arizona had had it and sold it to a guy, um, who had, uh, been on a Marjorie and them's dream season years and years ago. And uh, he's an investor down here and bought some properties and, and I was like, and you know, I was like, he, he had to have gotten that at a pretty good deal. And I got to look it around and, and I saw all what kind of deal he got it at. So I was like, Hey, you guys like, hmm, I can come into that at a lower price point since he came into it. a much lower price point more than likely. I'm going to try some negotiations strategies to see what I can do, improve it, and if I hold on to it forever, I hold on to it forever, but if not, it's a step install into something else. It had been on the market, basically, he wanted to kill a big deer off of it and then list it or start showing it, and he killed a big deer off of it, like the end of November, first week in a rifle season, and then got really heavy traffic, like people starting to go look at it after that, but they're like real, real bites on it, and then January hit, and I went and looked at it and fell in love with it from the second I walked it. It's just got a lot of elevation change, a lot of different types of just funnels and draws that draw every deer all over that property, and everything that surrounds it and I was like, okay, what? I can get this, but I got to figure out a way to get it at the best possible price point, and that's when I used some negotiation tactics from my dad, who's a salesman, I mean, he could sell used toilet paper and make you think you got a deal. What were some of the tactics? What are some of the things you've learned over the years? So, this particular piece, I just wanted to know where I was coming in if I was going to make an offer, and the 225 acres that was broke up into 175 on the other side, sorry, and the 50 was divided like right down the middle, so it would have been a bigger 100-acre track that already had a survey, and I was really interested in the whole 100. I didn't really want the 50, but I wanted to see where I was at coming in at asking for it, and I knew that the other side it was going to be kind of difficult to hold off somebody from buying it because it was the flatter piece of the ground, it had better access, so I worked in like a first-writer refusal type deal into my offer, and they accepted it, but as far as looking at it, I wanted to offer a spot where I knew that I could figure out if I was coming in high, low, or right about where they were looking for, and I think they listed it like 1950 and acre, and I think I threw out an offer at like 1850 and acre for the 50 acres immediately accepted. I was like, okay, I was like, so I know that that is well over what they're willing to accept at that point, and I was like, I was like, well, I'll let you know, I don't know, probably 48 hours go by, I reached back out to the agent who was a dual agent, he was representing me, representing them, and I said, hey, found out if they're interested in selling the other 50 that joins it, and he's like, what do you want that? And I was like, he's like, yeah, you know, we talked about it, and it's probably out of your price range, which I knew it wasn't out of my price range, I just wanted to see where I was at, and I was able to make some strong negotiations from that point and ended up getting the whole 100 for like 1650 and acre, so like well under what it was listed for, and I didn't think I was going to get it for that. Honestly, I thought that I was like, okay, well, it's like 1800 might be the ceiling for that. I was like, if that's the case, I'm getting in a little high, probably for that area, but yeah, but if it's a great farm and everything else, like, yeah, you can still feel good about it. So I'm guessing, so you got a verbal on the 50 and then you basically bought the other 50 for a lot less. Is that basically how that shook out? Well, and I actually just sort of myself had said, I tell you what, he was, yeah, I was willing to all float it. He had an investment partner. He wanted to get rid of it. He was ready to 1031 into a bigger farm closer to his house, so I knew I had that working for my advantage. And I was like, you know what? I was like, he's ready to sell it. I was like, I'll do all those 100 acres on the other road at 1650 and I heard he's like deal. So we settled at that. I didn't even have to pay a higher premium for the first 50 like it was just a deal right then in there. Yeah, there's some, there's some lessons in that, in my opinion. Obviously, great, great approach on your end, but then additionally too, like sometimes I feel there's a stigma of like, oh, this guy got a great deal on it. And he's going to make you, I mean, you can go look in the core house, see how much they pay and be like, oh, he's going to make this much, you know, and then you can get jaded pretty quickly. But oftentimes, I'm like, I still, I still think, okay, you got a great buy on it. First of all, he made a little bit of money on it. You walked into some equity versus like for them, it's like they're ready to move on. Like they don't need to squeeze every single last penny out of it. And I think oftentimes they're honestly good people to buy a farm for them. I really do. Like, no, I'm not clearly talking about I guess I could go back and look to see, but aside from that point, but there's a lot of guys that are very active and buying and selling. And I think sometimes they get an unfair stigma, honestly, where it's like, dude, they're not, if it's worth 10, they're, they'd probably sell, sell to you for 92 50. Oh, yeah. And I'll be the first to tell you, uh, lowballed him to death. Because I was like, he got it at a steal. Like, I felt, and I was just like, it was just him. He had the money ready to go ready to hit that home run in the market. I can't be mad at that. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm like, I was like, come on, man, help me out. Obviously, I mean, he's like, hey, I've got to make money off of it. And, you know, we're at that point where he made money off of it. I'm going to make money off of it because we both saw different things in it in a different way to market it. And I think that's key to is like how you market that farm. I think that's a big thing. So how, so he, I see him market it as a wreck farm, hunting farm, and you saw it as more, maybe, uh, hobby farm or a place to build a beautiful house with, you know, a hundred contiguous acres. Well, so yes and no, I saw it as a wreck farm, but also a place that you could build a house. I had a vision forward as soon as I walked into it. It's basically just a seven, eight-year-old pond thicket that's been clear cut. Um, it was so thick you couldn't walk it. The only thing that you could do was walk down the main road, this split two directions, and you couldn't really get anywhere. It had no perimeter access. Nothing but a road access that was washed out from where the timber company didn't fix it after they came in. I mean, it just, it was a disaster. So I came in and I know a guy that does crazy work down here on a track loader. And I mean, he's one of the best of ever saying. And I got him to come in for, for a whole weekend out there. And he's one of those guys that's just going to work until he tell him to stop. I mean, he's not even really counting how much he's making. He's just like, I want to work until we get this place how you want it. So he came in and he put in a just crazy perimeter fire break with access roads all off of it connecting to different fields, different ravines, different access points in and out of different fields through the timber. I mean, it was just everything that you could imagine. Like, we shared the same dream. He's a big outdoorsman. He's like, man, you know, this, I love doing stuff like this. And so the first thing I wanted to do was market like a perimeter access. And then he's like, Hey, man, why don't we clear off like a little, you know, 40 by 40 spot to to build a pad right here. And you know, if somebody wants to build a house, they can. So we did that. And I mean, he didn't really charge me anything crazy for that because he did it in 45 minutes. Right. It's crazy when you see it. Yeah, literally he did up his launch under the hood of the track loader while he was working. I mean, he was getting after it. That's just, yeah. I was like, he's he's he's good as gold. But you know, we did that. I did some legwork home. I put some big feeders out because you can feed here in Alabama. I went and I bought 20 to 25 different oak trees, planted those in the fields, kind of creating some strategic pinch points as well as just getting more food out there for the deers way. I mean, I know it's going to be a few years before that pays off. But I was just like the right person that sees these kind of improvements. They're going to appreciate it. It's less work they have to do. Yeah. Things that are going to, you know, better the habitat. And the biggest thing that I did that made the biggest difference out there was a prescribed fire. I had a guy who just tell me he's like, I'm telling you, man, he's like, you've got to set this place different from everything that surrounds it. And the only thing that's going to do that is being able to make this place feel bigger than it is with a fire. We ran a hot fire through there. I mean, it was hot. It got, there was times when I was nervous. I mean, there was 40, 50, 60 foot flames rolling, rolling through that cutover. Every fire department in the whole county was called around. I even found out that somebody had notified the Air Force Base over in Mississippi. It's insane. I didn't mean for the fire to be this big. But there was just so much thatch and stuff from all these, you know, seven, eight years or where that cutover just been growing up. And it weren't hot. I mean, I lost probably 10% of the trees. But you'd be surprised I mean, those trees just rebounded. But the thing that rebounded the most was just all the natural briles and deer came in from everywhere. I mean, on this 100 acres, I had roughly, in these two food plots, I made both of them roughly a little over an acre, created some like little natural funnels and pinch points and put cameras all around. I mean, I bet I had at one point in time within a couple months after this fire, there was probably 60 deer between both fields out there on camera. And I would say that two thirds of them were bucks. I mean, the, the amount of deer and the buck to doe ratio here is pretty insane. That was when I kind of knew I had something special. And I was like, you know, this is going to be really hard to give up if I have to give it up. But a deal came up and I couldn't pass up. So I had to find a way to market it. Well, you, you moved quick too. You got, you got a lot of work done really fast and a lot of really, really heavy lifting big projects too. To make that, you know, all, all those visual the trails, the the feeders, the fire where you can see all the new brows, like all the things that, you know, the quickest, like when you can snap or like imagine like home makeover, like move that bus, like you know, like imagine that on the farm and they drove it away, like, oh my gosh, it's completely different now. - That was truly it, like even the agent that sold me the place came out there and he's like, what have you done to this place? This is a mecca and I was like, I know, and then I sent him all these deer pictures. He's like, how many mature bucks do you have out there? I was going through trail camera pictures later, on this 100 acres, there's eight bucks that are four, I estimate to be four and older. A few of them are pushing 150, most of them are pushing 125, 130, which Rallabama, that's just here. - I was in Alabama last year, we did two white-tailed cribs and I got to see some like a squizzed trophy rooms of Alabama and it's like, yeah, that's impressive. - Yeah, it's not something that you come by every day, but you know, especially for having the first year with this place and I planted summer plots and I went all in because I was just like, you know what, this is gonna be a good form, but then I was like, I can flip it if I need to. That came a lot quicker than what I was anticipating. - Yeah, yeah, so I think, yeah, we should dive. Let me ask you this, was there, what was the biggest thing that you either learned or solidified from this first farm that would be helpful for someone else that either is about to buy their first farm or has bought their first farm in the last 12 months? What would you tell them? - Believe in the vision that you have for it and know that somebody out there will see exactly the same thing that you see. Build it for a future bar, essentially. You know, that's why I put in the perimeter access 'cause I was like, that's key for a lot of people. The, you know, it was essentially a fire break, built in already because of the county road, all I had to do was tie in two sides of it. The prescribed fire made a hundred acres, feel like a thousand acres because before the hunt only felt like 10. You couldn't see anything, you couldn't walk it, you couldn't do anything. And then I strategically, I placed Silcam all over the property with a background that you could verify. So if somebody came and looked at it when it was listed, they could say, hey, this deer picture is right here on this farm. This isn't, it was just pulled off a chat GPT or off Google and thrown in here and be like, look, this big book, it was here last night at the feeder. Like it was being able to see those things. Like it was just, this would matter to me. So I feel like it has to matter to the right bar. Yeah. It definitely did, because I mean, this place went under contract in three weeks and I was so shocked by that. Well, do you, do you want to talk about like how much made on it? Well, yeah, I can. So, I mean, we close roughly two and a half weeks. Which we're gonna wait till it closes before this goes live. Yeah, I mean, everything's already set up, all the deals on it. People who hold it are out of state. They're just buying it for rec land. I mean, they're not coming down here for a long time. It's actually somebody from up north coming down here to hunt. I was like, oh, okay. That's really, that's out there, but okay. All right. But I guess they may just be moving their family or something, I'm not really sure. But all in all between the fire, the road, all in all, I probably only had like eight grand worth of improvements in it. So I mean, you're looking at total of 165 plus 8173. And I sold it for two or selling it for two or six. So I mean, there's a little profit in six mods. Yeah. You know, I'll be able to 1031 that into something else that I'm really excited about. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Yeah. So you just bought your dream farm. You went through hell with the tax lane situation. You finally, you finally did it and you're super excited. And then you found a replacement property. Was it by accident kind of or? Absolutely by accident. So we're just up there working on one of our lease site, one of our lease in Kentucky. And we've got a guy that's doing some work for us and he's a farmer, it's getting ready to slow down, getting ready to retire, sell some of this stuff. And he just asked if we'd be interested in buying something. And I said, well, it depends on what the price is, price point and all this other stuff. And he said the price point. And that was a price point that I know my eyes had to have lit up when he said it. But I had to jump on it. And I just came home telling my wife about it. I was like, you're going to be mad. You're not going to understand this situation. I will get you through there. We will have a discussion about it. But we're probably about to buy a farm up in Kentucky now. And she goes, you're joking, right? And I was like, I wish I was. But this is one of those, I know I told you that the last farm that we bought six months ago. I was like, I know that I told you that that was probably a dream farm. And that doesn't, those type of home runs don't come up. But I was like, this is a true World Series game 7 home run that people will remember forever. And I was like, we'll look back on this situation and remember the day that we do buy it or the day that we don't buy. And once we had that discussion, it was, she's like, I trust you, whatever you think. And so now we're moving forward into that. Yeah, so you tend everyone into the Kentucky farm. And then you had mentioned, are you utilizing AlcBeans section 180? There was no passion on it. I'm going to have to get, I've got a buddy that works for the FTA, not the FTA, the, I don't know. He works for soil conservation, basically. And if he does, probably. And he's over like three different counties in the area. He's going to come out there and see if it needs to be, it potentially might have to be tiled to row crop it again. So we're going to see before I'm still going to do the soil test and see what we line up in that. Because he's thinking that it might have some pretty good numbers on it. It would be in a cattle farm for the past 50 years. And there's a neighboring cattle farm that did pretty well on it in the past. So I've got my hopes up for that. But if nothing else, it's going to be a great deer hunting farm. Yeah. If you can't do any kind of section 180 stuff on it, it's still going to be a great deer hunting farm. Yeah, sometimes it doesn't matter. I feel like sometimes when we talk about this podcast, I feel like we create more check marks that probably never existed. I've years ago, I'm like, well, what's the section 80? You never tell me. I love that. I would love to increase my income a little more on paper. And I know what I was like in a bunch of money to do. I don't really care. I was like, just give me some big deer hunting. I'll be all right. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, that's an important one for a lot of people. You know, the biggest thing that kind of steered me in the direction, I wouldn't say biggest thing. It kind of lined up with just some of my decisions and moving forward to buy this place. And, you know, the episode, like I mentioned, 2.29, we'll talk to you about the EHD, like bond in the EHD's tricking areas. We got hit so hard with the EHD in this area last year. I mean, we went from seeing 12 to 15 deer on a green field at a time, filling up feeders roughly every two weeks. And now, we haven't seen but 3 deer on one farm. I mean, it was-- We walked roughly-- This isn't Kentucky? Yeah. We walked roughly a two mile section of the river and found like over 60 dead deer just in one weekend last year. I mean, it was brutal. So it's going to take years to rebound. But I was like, hey, this is the perfect chance. I can buy a farm. I can get settled. I can rebuild it for those two years. Punnets see how the deer use it before I start really chasing some mature deer out there. And I mean, hopefully I still get lucky in November and can find something. If not, then it's just two years to improve it. Let the deer herd grow, get healthier, and then go from there. Yeah, two years goes really fast, too. Yeah, definitely. Especially with a little kid and trying to deal with that and travel out of state to work and hunt, which luckily, I've kind of slowed down when traveling out of state and out of work. So it's a little better. But now I've got to convince my watcher let me go travel to hunt. So that's a different story. But pick up some shifts somewhere in that area. [LAUGHTER] There's a hospital about 30 minutes from there. I might be able to. We'll see. Yeah, what-- I mean, you've got to jump full fledging to this. What has been surprising to you up to this point that maybe, like, kale two years ago would have been like, ah, I don't know, man. This seems too good to be true or a man I don't know. What has shocked you? The fact that I told the guy we had a handshake deal, essentially, before I'd ever seen the place, side unseen. I just knew it was in a great deer hunt in the area. I knew that it was-- I'd seen it on Onyx, and that's all I needed to see. I knew it was going to check a lot of the things that I needed. And I was like, you know what, at this point, I've already learned. It's not going to check every box. But it's going to check most of these boxes, and I'm going to move forward with it. So that aspect definitely changed. Being able to jump from five years of sitting on the sidelines to, you know, two farms down six months as well. I think that's a great lesson. You know, when this one goes live, there'll be an episode of Shana Sada. And we talked about exactly like this, because I asked him that, you know, that same question about, like, you know, people that have some paralysis, which I completely understand, like, it's big purchases. Like, it does change your household for sure. I mean, I don't care. How strong your income is, it does change your household. And versus the guy that, like, you just said, like, side unseen gut feeling, it's going to be good enough. And, you know, who? I don't want to say success, but who, hmm, trying to think of a way to phrase this, but who meets their goals quicker, I guess, in maybe one way to say it. And I think, you know, that's an awesome lesson. And I think, let me ask you this. So with the five years of sitting on the sideline, do you think that gave you the conviction to be like, boom, I've been studying for five years. I'm ready to go. I know what I want. Boom. Absolutely. Especially when this traveling man, I've had so much time to sit on my airplane and listen to the podcast and the recurring theme is just get in it. Just get in the game. Put yourself in the game because if you don't and you're always sitting on the sidelines, you can always be sitting on the sidelines. You can say that, oh, I will do this when this comes up, but you'll find a way to talk yourself out of it. And I film multiple times, so talk myself out of something. But then when this deal came up, I was like, you know what, I'm done. I'm acting on what I know is the right thing to do. I'll find a way to sell this farm in Alabama if I have to. I would love to be able to keep both of them. But I was like, and it's going to, it's not going to go over with my wife. It's going to stretch the income. That's going to really make me have to put some light nights in at the hospital. So I was like, you know, let's sell this farm. It was my first farm. It was a great learning experience. I've taken a lot away from it. Let's sell it. And let's turn it into something else. I can tell you that, you know, I've always wanted, it was a dream farm somewhere in the Midwest. And, you know, hopefully I can find more later on down the road, but that's going to take some time to rebound. Yeah. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. I'm not going to say who does it. No one knows. You just got to, you just got to chip away and, you know, time goes, time goes fast. And, and the crowd was like, you're, if you do the same thing you just did on your Alabama farm meeting, like go in and make the improvements, do the things that you know, like any farm that anyone walks like, man, you could do this, you could do that, you could do that. And then like what I see people that do really, that's really, on the hunting side, even, they go in and boom, they get it done versus like, I'm going to wait a year or two and I'm going to wait three years, like on the, on the stuff that's very obvious. I get like optimizing the farm takes time, completely understanding that, but like, really need to put a covert in here so I can access my equipment here and just get it done. Um, I'm going to add this to my last question for today. And you can put this into time caps, time capsule for you. Okay. All right. How many acres will you own when you're 50? 500 or more? Yeah. Um, that's what I'd love to say. We should round it up to 640. I was listening. Yeah. There was another, another podcast I was listening to and like he mentioned like each community needs to have a, have a name like this, he gave like the swifties, all these different people. And I was like, the land podcast needs a, needs a name. And I feel like it's corny. Like if you give yourself a nickname, which is kind of like giving the community a nickname. And I was like, the first name came up mine is like the 640s. Like, hey, like, uh, 640 gang, we just such a, such an untangible like crazy thing. When you think about it, but I know multiple people that have, you know, got to 640 faster than what you can imagine. I think, uh, if anyone made it this far and they're on YouTube, uh, let me know if you like the 640 gang. We'll see if we need to fix it or if it's the lamest thing on earth, I, I got thick skin. I'll take it. So it's always got a better idea. So K, I really, really appreciate you sharing your story, um, some really, really great advice on the off chance that you want people to track you down. Uh, I give everyone that opportunity. Yeah. Um, you can honestly, the best way is I'm so busy social media and stuff runs by me most of the time. You can just shoot me a text or give me a phone call. Um, most of the time I'm in the OR so I can answer a phone call, but you can shoot me a text, uh, my cell number is 205, 275, 3650, um, I can try to help you sort out a text link. What not to do? Yeah. Run the other way. I can feel questions about anesthesia. I don't really care. I can answer whatever you want to answer. Um, we can talk. If you want to talk beer hunting, whatever, um, here's my question. When people, when you say, uh, say the alphabet backwards or count backwards from a hundred, what people, how far, it's for a hundred, how, what number do most people get to? Cause I feel like when I got my, uh, my wisdom to that, I probably made it to like 95. Most people, unless they have a hot tolerance or about 95, 94, that's about as far as they're gonna get, um, stuff works pretty quick. Yeah. That was a burning question. I've never had an opportunity to ask someone that, so I appreciate it. Well, okay. I'll thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Yeah, man. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. It was great talking to you. [BLANK_AUDIO]