231-When Trauma Changes Everything: How to Rebuild Your Life with Kate Massey

Welcome to Widow Too Soon. This is Michelle Bader-Eversal. I'm excited that we are doing our mini series out of the fog and into the light rebuilding your life with it when everything changes, which will eventually be its standalone podcast. So I have today with me another amazing guest who I'm excited to get to know right along with you. Her name is Kate. How are Kate Massey? How are you today, Kate? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, and now I don't even know where do you live. What area are you coming from? I'm from South Carolina. Over kind of near the Clemson area. Yeah. Okay, I'm Washington State, so I don't know anything about it. I've been to the East Coast. Well, what I know of East Coast is Boston because my husband, every married and my husband Joel, his family is from Boston. So that's what I know. I know that's not exactly the same, but to me it's all like over there. So, anyway, I'm so glad that you're here today and we're going to get a chance to talk. I know you do a lot. What's your official title? I know you told me earlier. I'm a licensed professional counselor. Okay, and you work with trauma. Is that correct? I work with a bunch of different things, but trauma is what I specialize in. Yes. Well, a lot of us who are rebuilding our lives have had a lot of trauma. And I've worked with a lot of people that it's just such hard traumas. I'm so glad that there are people like you who specialize in this know how to give us tools and all of that. So, before we dive into what you do, I would love to know on a personal level, what brought you to your career? Was there something that happened in your life? You're like, I want to do this or you just always had a passion for helping people through trauma. So, I always knew I wanted to help people, but I didn't really know what that was going to look like. And so, going into college, I thought I was going to be a nurse. That was not the right option for me. And as I just prayed about it and I knew that I wanted to be helping, but I didn't know what it was going to look like. God just kind of dropped counseling in my lap. I had been through a lot of trauma myself. And when I went through counseling, I had counselors that had no idea what I'd gone through. They didn't understand what it had been like to go through those things. And so, that was hard for me. And it actually pushed me away from counseling because I felt like I couldn't relate to them and that they couldn't relate to what I was going through. And so, God just kind of aligned it and perfectly, as he always does, you know, the chips fell into place. And that's where I am now. I love it. I love how God can use what we've been through to guidance in our career. Most of my audience knows this, but maybe not my new audience on this new podcast is that I was a teacher before Luke died. And that was like the direction of my life. And how God totally redirected. I feel like I teach now, but not kids, you know, in a different way. I have a nonprofit for widows and I teach widow groups and do a widow retreats and all of this stuff that I never thought I would do, but God can take what we've been through and use it. In fact, my son is 18 trying to figure out what he's going to do with his life. And we were talking about this last night, just about how God can use the things that he's been through, losing his dad at 12 years old. And what he's been there in, you know, to shape his life that nothing is wasted, which kind of leads me to the title of your book, "Curpus into Pain." Is that right? Did I get it right? Purpose in the pain. Purpose in the pain. In the pain. Okay. I love that because that's exactly what we're talking about. That there is. Purpose God does not waste anything. In the moment, it's hard to see it, right? When we're going through it, actually, I was talking to my daughter about, it's like, this is just exactly what we've been talking about. My daughter is almost 20 and just about how when, you know, sometimes you want something so bad and God doesn't allow it, but then there's a reason and then it's like, you can see it or you go through something and you have no idea like what, what is the purpose? And sometimes we will never know that this side of heaven, but a lot of times I feel like God shows us. So tell me about what inspired your book and a little bit about what it's about. So my writing experience is different than anyone I have talked to. My pastor was doing a series on God-given dreams and I had always wanted to write a book and I was sitting there and I felt God say now's the time and I said, okay, what do you want me to write about? And he gave me the title and I said, okay, well, there are many directions I could go with this. What direction do you want me to go? Right. And he was like, I want you to write about the traumas you've been through. And so each chapter is a different trauma I've been through in my life and I address where God was in that situation. I give tips that help people through what they're going through. But for me, it was one of those things where when I was going through those situations, there were a lot of things that I, I wasn't really paying attention to them, right? Which we all tend to do. We are going through the motions when we're, especially when we're in pain and not paying attention to where God's hand is because our situation can be screaming at us and sometimes God's voice is a whisper. And so it's hard to hear the whisper over the screen. And so in the book, I talk about how one of the things that God pointed out to me is how he placed different people in my life at that point where he was really using them and speaking to me through those people. And without those people in that time or in that area of my life, it would have looked completely different. I talk about everything from struggling with suicide to sexual abuse, to injuries that took me out of sports when I was younger, just a whole different array of things, family trauma, just all that. And I just want to people to understand that God's with you in that pain. And if he's not that God causes our pain, but he's, he's allowing it to happen. And if he's allowing it to happen, instead of sitting there and allowing ourselves to be a victim to it, he doesn't do anything unless it works for our good. And so seeing, okay, how could that have worked for my good? Right. Right. I was just talking about this recently that I heard a sermon when Luke was sick with cancer. And the pastor said, everything passes through God's hand. He either causes it or he allows it. He doesn't cause the sickness and death, but he allows it. So if God allowed it, I can accept it. So that's something that I try to hold on to when it's like, God, I don't understand this. It doesn't make any sense to me. And then, you know, a very simple thing that I taught my kids when Luke was going through cancer is like, you know, God sees it's like the whole world is a puzzle. We see little pieces, but he sees the whole thing. And so it won't make sense to us. If you just look a part of the puzzle, it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense to him. And that's kind of where, you know, I just kind of land with everything that I don't understand. I mean, in fact, we were talking about this last night. There was, you know, we're talking about we can see some good from, you know, not that we would ever want. My husband had passed away, but we talked about the good that's come, the ministry I have, things that have happened. But he was talking about a girl his same age who died in a car accident a few months ago. And what's the good in that? And I was like, I don't know. Like, whenever I start questioning, I think about, I feel like God says to me, this world is not your home, you know, it's world's not our home. And there's a verse about that. And then just to focus on that, we won't understand it because it doesn't make sense. Like when young people die and babies die, you know, just all the stuff that doesn't make sense. And so I love that your book is addressing that. And I applaud you for being able to be open and vulnerable, you know, about those hard things in your life. Like, was that was that a challenge for you to write some of those hard things? Very much so. I've always been that person. I'm very transparent. But being vulnerable, because of traumas that I've been through is very challenging for me. And God said, I want you to be like, I want you to go there. And I was like, oh, are we sure? Like, I don't know. You know, there are things that I had one of my best friends from childhood tell me she was like, I never knew that you were suicidal. And she was like, that was a hard chapter for me to read that. And I'm like, well, wait till later on the book, because I mentioned that it comes back up. And this was someone that I have been super, super close with. And they had no idea. And it's in those things like we might not see where God's working. But when you were speaking about like your son and that girl, one thing that God pointed out to me when I was younger was the first Deuteronomy 29, 29. And it's the secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed to us and our children are ours forever. And for me, when I don't understand why something is going on or why I'm having to go through it, I lean on that verse because it's his knowledge of why I need to go through it. I might not know until I get to heaven why I had to go through that. But it's trusting him in the unknown. That's beautiful. I'm going to share that verse with him. That's great. I love it. I actually never heard that or never remember hearing that. So I think that's really really good. So when did you, when was the book published? The book was published last June. It's very fresh. Last May. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's exciting. And what do you have plans to write any more books? I actually have two books that are written that I'm one of them. I just started the editing process. So hopefully that one will be coming out soon. And then I have a third one. And then God's been talking to me about the next few. So we shall see. That's awesome. I love that. Well, let's talk about another topic you like to speak on in that's your identity in Christ. This is one of my favorite things. Let's talk about that. Okay. So I think a lot of the church doesn't really understand their identity in Christ. And it can be hard for us to understand that. But I feel like in order for us to fulfill the purpose that we have, that is an elementary idea that we need to understand. Because if you don't understand who you are, that affects a lot of your life. In my book, I talked about how when I went through, I went through some bullying, which is what led me to being suicidal when I was younger. And if I had truly understood my identity in Christ, those things that were being said to me would not have been able to penetrate into my soul. It would not have shifted how I saw myself. Because I would have known my identity in Christ. And we have so many verses in God's word that says who we are, yet we turn to our family, our friends, the world around us, to tell us who we are. When in reality, sometimes our friends can speak life into us, right, and family and things like that. But there are also times that things might not be spoken into our lives that are uplifting or helpful. And so recognizing, okay, those things, are they in alignment with what God says about me, with who he has identified me to be? And understanding, I think a lot of times we don't see just how much God truly cares about us, that we were adopted. We were chosen to be a part of his family. And in that, like knowing that he knew everything, every one of us have done, knew where we would fall short, and yet he looked at us and he said, no, I am choosing you to be a part of my family. I don't know about you, but I've had some pretty big best ups in my life. And so knowing that he knew those things were going to come, and still he was like, no, that's my girl, that's my daughter. And understanding that, allowing that to like seep into our soul of, you are so chosen by God. And he has made you just the way you are. Understanding that who you are in Christ, that is the root of it all. I know for me, part of that being bullying was I have ADHD and dyslexia and some auditory processing disorders. But for me, there were a lot of things that were spoken over my life because of that. I had teachers who told me I was stupid. I had students who told me I was stupid. There were just different things that went through my life of, okay, because of these issues, I'm less than because I was made this way. And it's not anything that I did. That's how God made me. And as I was able to further understand and see, okay, like God allowed us to have those different things in my career with my ADHD, I can focus on what the client is saying and be able to take notes. And I don't have to divert my attention from one or the other. That's a blessing in my career. I'm not missing what the client saying is I'm taking the notes. I wouldn't have recognized that. But it's seeing that God made me how I am. And he knew the purpose that he had for me. And because of that, something that the world saw as a negative, he said, no, this is going to be used for your good. This is going to be used to benefit your situation later on. That's good. That's really great. How, how were you able to flip that in your mind? Did you just realize it one day and you're like, oh, okay, that's good. So I actually ended up leaving the school that I had been at. And I went to a school for kids with learning disabilities. And it wasn't just for kids with learning disabilities. That's how it started out. But it was such a successful school that people started sending, you know, their normal kids there. And for me, when I went there, they educated on how I remember I had a teacher who was telling us that the people who invented things, if you look at their history, the issues that they had, they would all probably meet the diagnosis for ADHD or things like that. And so because of people who were similar to me that thought differently, that their brain work differently, our world has had things like electricity, air conditioning, heat, things that we take for granted a lot, right? And it was because someone like me was different that God allowed us to have those amenities. He used, even at that time, someone who was seen as people who were getting kicked out of school and things like that. But at the same time, God was able to use them in ways that were different than a lot of the other people around them. And so it shifted it to where I was able to see it almost as like a super power instead of seeing it as a fault. Yeah, I love that. That's such a great way to shift that. So if you had a client come to you and, you know, they're trying to rebuild their life and struggling with their identity, I'm not married anymore. I'm not, you know, whatever we talked about, like, when you're identity completely shifts, like, how would you, how do you help them find their identity in Christ? Is there like a certain certain steps or do you, I'm just curious how you help people find their identity in Christ? Yeah. So the first thing that I do is I'll have a client list what they think of themselves, whether it's true or not, what are the things that have been spoken over you? And then after you list those, look at God's word, does that line up with what God said about you? And if not, you start to memorize the verses that speak as truth because it is the ultimate truth. We have that evidence by God of who we are. So like one of the verses for me was I felt worthless because of ADHD, excuse me, and the issues I faced. Well, the Bible says I'm more precious than rupees. So I'm going to hold on to that instead of holding on to I'm worthless. And then speaking that over myself, after you come up with the verses coming up with affirmations for yourself that are like based in scripture. And so like that's one of the ones that I would speak to myself is I would say I am more precious than rupees. I am the apple of my father's eye and speaking those things, but then also knowing the scriptures that go behind it. Yeah. And I love that. That's so good. I have a chapter in my book about like who am I now? And also I don't podcast about it. It's kind of thing because it's it's so confusing when your life crumbles and you had your identity in these titles, whatever they are. And then trying to figure out like who am I now? Who does God say that I am? And what you're saying reminds me a lot of what my counselor taught me years ago, like even before Luke died just about automatic negative thoughts, ants, you know, how you have one. And then your brain tries to think of something to support that. And then she would say, no, you need an ant eater, you know, which is something that's the opposite to just get up that thought. And I want that to my kids to to, you know, know, stop going down that path. But I like memorizing scripture even better to be the thing that you say to just stop that pattern. Because I think it's, I think it's what the enemy uses a lot and obviously is our thoughts and gets us to go down these paths. I mean, I am guilty of these like ants coming in sometimes and going down this path and then all of a sudden you're in this bad place and it's like, no, that's not what you want to be. That's not who God says, but I know I love that you do that. So I kind of want to move to trauma because I know a lot of people listening have been through a lot of trauma watching loved ones die car accidents, you know, just all of these huge things. So let's say you have a new client who comes in. I mean, what is, what is the first step? And I know it's probably different every person you do to work through trauma. Is it really just having them talk about it or I'm just curious like what do you do? It really depends on the client. It is case by case situations. But one of the big things is educating people on trauma. And then another thing that I've noticed with people who have been through trauma, which we compare as humans all the time. But the world has kind of led people to compare traumas. So I would have people come in and be like, I went through, say it was like being abused by my father. But I wasn't sexually abused by my father. So like, it wasn't that bad, right? And we kind of teach ourselves, oh, well, it wasn't as bad as it could have been. And so people kind of talk themselves out of, oh, maybe it wasn't a trauma. It wasn't that bad, right? And that's not everybody's case. But a lot of times we see people are comparing the traumas. And I like to give the example of two different water bottles and looking at it from the perspective of if I take a water bottle and put a pin size prick at the bottom, will it leak water? Yes. What if I take a similar water bottle and stab it with a butcher knife? Would it leak water? Yes. They're still leaking water. They're just going to be at different rates. And so a lot of times when we're comparing our trauma, your trauma might not be seen as as aggressive or as big of a deal to other people. But if it shifted the way you see yourself, the way you see the world around you, it is still affecting you. And so even if it is that pin prick instead of something that we would see as more severe, you're still going to have that leaking out. And that still deserves the same healing as the other water bottle. It's all about having that perspective of, okay, let's shift that around because just because your trauma isn't just like someone else's or whatever, it's not worth comparing, but then also understanding how those traumas affected you. So a lot of times people will see the symptoms of the traumas that they've been through and not really see how it connects to the trauma they've been through and making that connection for them so that they're able to see and reflect, okay, this is how it's affecting me now. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting learning about trauma and what it does to your body. So I think my biggest surprise after Luke died is the way my body reacted. I don't remember anyone telling me that I was going to start feeling physically ill. And so he had cancer, but he died of a blood clot. And literally three days later, I thought, like I remember the feeling my calf was hurting because that was the first thing he complained about. And I, then I like pretty much almost fainted and my daughter had to help me. And of course, she was freaked out because her dad had just died in three days later. I'm like, no, my leg, my leg is something wrong. And I literally thought I was having a blood clot. And then for the first six months, it was like, I thought I was dying all the time. And I learned that when you go through a trauma, especially if you watch someone die, it can embrace this anxiety and trauma and all these things that I had no idea would happen. That was something that surprised me about trauma. And I had no idea, you know, and he, you know, it's traumatic to watch your husband die. But it's not even, yeah, and I guess we shouldn't compare. But I have a lot of friends who had much more traumatic deaths. And I just can't even imagine like what that's like for them to, you know, have things. And then the weirdest thing that ever happened to me was like three years later, my husband Joel and I were downtown Portland. And there was a homeless man who was appearing to be dying because he had overdosed. And all the sudden, I don't know, it was like I was back in that moment. And it was the weirdest thing I'd ever experienced. And it was like, because I hadn't seen anybody die since Luke. And I was just like, I couldn't even breathe. And I felt really faint. And it was the strangest thing all the way home. He's like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, yeah. But it was like, you know, where you're, I know that you're going to have some good explanation for this. But basically like your mind thinks you're back there. And so do you like grounding techniques to be like, no, this is where I am. Like, I don't know what, can you explain that a little more? Because I'm sure the other other guests have had these kind of things happen before. What is happening when that sensation happens? Yeah. So a lot of that is our bodies. There are many ways that your body can process trauma. One thing is that your body can store trauma in different areas. There are many different factors to this. Part of it is even like with what you're talking about. If you haven't been around someone else who has passed and you're seeing someone else pass, it could be memories that have been blocked from that time that are trying to resurface because they've been triggered. And like you said, working through those coping skills and different things like that. But it's interesting to see. And trauma's not the only thing that gets sort in the body. There's also unforgiveness and things like that. But there's actually been a link to people who have untreated trauma and people who have unforgiveness and things like that. They're starting to be researched to see that that's actually connected to physical things in their body. And so recognizing, okay, a lot of times we want to step the trauma to the side or not deal with it. But actually that can cause it can come out in any way. And sometimes it'll come out when you least expect it when you're walking down the street. We never know when it's going to come out. But recognizing like with trauma, it's about rewiring your brain because when you go through something that's traumatic, that's what it does. Is it rewires your brain. And so after that, you have to go back and rewire that so that your brain responds differently to those instances. And there are many ways to go about that. Highly recommend finding a counselor to walk you through that. But there's a lot of different factors of psychoeducation and things like that. There are a lot of things that people don't realize could be considered trauma. And it's just different things of like people who have families that fought a lot growing up. If you ask them they would say, "Oh, that that was normal." That's still pretty traumatic because it affects how you interact with the world around you, the people around you. And so understanding like when we have those different things, knowing your coping skills. But also I don't know if you were in counseling at the time, but having someone that you can go to and process through that. Because that's where you're going to be able to help rewire those different thoughts that are in your brain. Yeah, yeah, it was one of the strangest things of our experience. And that was the only time I've ever had anything like that where it was just like flashback to like feeling like I was at Luke's death, but it was it was so strange. Yeah. Do you do EMDR? I do not. EMDR has had some pretty good practices. For me, the counseling I do is a little different. I am very much a Christian counselor. Now I do have some clients that aren't Christian, but if people say that they are Christians and they're willing to go there, having God be a part of that process really shifts the process for you. And so for me, that's one of the things that I would say is different is I use practices that that are also backed by scripture. So as I'm learning different techniques, I make sure that they are in alignment with what scripture says. I'm not trained in EMDR, so I don't know where it stands on that. But for me, it's helping people connect with God and working through their situation. Because you can come to me all day, and I can give you tools. But I am not capable of healing you. That is not my job. That's God's job. Yep. I'm just there to help make the connection between you and God so that you can have that healing that you need. Exactly. Exactly. There's so many great tools. So I'm a grief recovery method specialist and let a lot of people through that. And they always tell them, well, if they're Christian, that there's so many great tools in this process. We actually graph out their life, and we go through their losses, and we write a letter to their loved one, great tools, but it's really God that's going to heal you. It's not me, it's not the process, it's God. And one of the sayings that I always say is what we feel God can heal and to not stuff down the emotions because you really have to feel it in order to heal. So when I was in grief counseling, my grief counselor would say the same thing, don't stuff it. You need to feel what we feel we can heal. And so for years I said what we feel we can heal and I felt like God told me one day, no, no, no. What you feel I can heal. And so I started saying that what we feel God can heal, it's like a big part of my book and everything. And it's so true. We can't do it. We can point people to the right things and the right tools, but they have to be willing to go there with God. He is the ultimate healer. There's so many great programs that help. But he's the one who does it. And when we seek him with our whole heart, we will find him. We need to be the ones doing the work when people want to get help. And I know you know all this stuff that just for our audience, people will be like, well, I'm five years out from this. I'm 10 years old. Why am I not there? I didn't understand it. When I was a new baby widow and I was feeling good in six months because God was healing me. I was telling everybody like, I'm good. All of these things. And I didn't realize some people who would be five years out be like, well, I'm not. And I realized I learned this in grief for recovery. It's not about how much time it's what you do with the time. So you have to put effort into healing. I tell people, you got to heal is your job. When you're newly widowed or you're going through these big traumas. That is your job. If you can't just sit back. It's like if you came to a doctor with a broken arm, and but you didn't set it, like you didn't fix it, it would still be in the same place. Like if you're late, if you didn't get it set, or I like using this example, if you had a flat tire and you just sat there and you're like, it'll be better in a year. I'm going to come back in a year. You didn't do any work. It's going to be in the same place. You know, you've got to be doing the work. And that's one of the big things I like people to know is like, we can give you the tools. But unless you take them and do something with them, you're not going to get any better. Like you have to do it. There's work recovering, you know, from whatever grief and trauma and all of that, it takes work. And some people I'm sure you've seen this. They're just not willing to do work. And it's so sad because I'm like, I know this would help you if you did the work. You know, if you do the homework and you do the things and all of that, it can help you so much. Anyways, I love what you're doing, you know, with a trauma work and all of this. And your book sounds amazing. Have you enjoyed kind of shifting gears? Because I'm an author too. So I like to talk about, have you enjoyed the process of writing and publishing and all of that? Is there been anything surprising in the process? Or like, what are your thoughts about that? I have enjoyed the process. The first one I did a traditional, well, it was a hybrid self-traditional publishing. Yeah. But there were things that I saw that I was like, oh, I don't necessarily like that. So I'm going self-publishing this next route. So this next, my second one is going to be self-published. But it was interesting to me. So when I got my book deal, they also gave me an audiobook because they thought it was going to help so many people. And they, I signed up for the marketing package and stuff like that to help my book. Because I'm not a known author, you know, I'm just starting out. And it was interesting to me that they didn't start promoting my book until about a month ago, because they had to wait for the audiobook to get finished. And so I was like, oh, that's like, I didn't realize that it was going to be almost a year later that the marketing side would come into play. But yeah, so that was really interesting for me. And you're like, I can do this myself without paying somebody. So I love that you're doing that. It's my very first time publishing like 20 years ago. I did a kind of a hybrid kind of thing. And it was like, I can do all this myself. And then I eventually, you know, I've published like six books top myself how to do it. And then you're like, oh, I can totally do this. I don't need somebody to help me to do all that. I love that. You figured it out. And it's a fun process. I love getting books into people's hands and audiobooks and all the things. And I love that you're here today sharing about your book and what you do. So one last question before we wrap it up. If you were sitting with a new person, like maybe a new client, they're rebuilding their life after some kind of trauma, whatever it is. And they just wanted some advice. Like, what would you give to a brand new person who's like brand new to rebuilding their life? So if it was a Christian client, it would be let God in. Let God in. A lot of times when we go through hurt, it can push us away from God because we don't understand. We don't see where he's moving. And when we push him away, you're pushing away your healing. And understanding that when you're going to counseling, the counselor is there to guide you. They are not the one to heal you. And like you said, there is an aspect of you have to put in the work. And if you're not willing to put in the work, you're not going to see the results. So putting in the work, allowing God in, those are the things that really shift how that healing process works for you. Yeah, that's good. That's really good advice. I love it. Well, is it OK if I pray for you? Yes, please. OK, Jacob, I just thank you so much for Kate. Thank you for connecting us through technology. Thank you for what she does in her counseling. I pray, blessings over her counseling that you continue to give her the words to share with people, bring her the right clients, and that she can continue to make an impact. Thank you for her book that's published and the one she's about to and the one she's going to write. I pray that you bless those as they go out into the world and the right people will read them and hear the audiobook and be impacted by them. And that she continues to build your kingdom and serve you. And we just thank you for this another day to be alive. I pray for every listener here who is trying to rebuild their life. That these tips will help them and that you will just put some joy in their life. Something fun happens today. Somebody reaches out to them. They smile or something. God just continue to bring them joy as they rebuild their life. And just give them peace. That it's all going to be OK. That you're going to help them through this and to always turn to you. We just thank you for all you've done. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Kate. So we want to make sure we'll have links too, but where can people find you and find your book and all that good stuff? All my social media is Kate Massey writes. And then you can find my book on Amazon or online at Walmart or Barnes and Noble. Awesome. That's great. Well, thank you so, so much for being here. I know that your wisdom is going to help a lot of people who are in the rebuilding phase of their life. So thank you so much. And we'll see you next time. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]