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Coming from SportsPro, the number one business that connects, educate, and inspires the international sporting community. SportsPro+. Is the ultimate hub for sports business knowledge with exclusive content, data, and analysis that keeps me up to speed with everything happening across the industry. And right now listeners of the Sports Management Podcast get an exclusive 20% off with the code SMPod20. That's SMPOD20. All you need to do is head over to sportspro.com/membership and start exploring today. Well-contained so 225 of Sports Management Podcast. Today's guest is Vance Morris. And in this episode, we will uncover what sports teams can learn from Disney when it comes to service and fan experience. We spoke about how Vance went from a security guard at a burst control factory to working for Disney. Why he was a Lausie employee. Why his business charges 40% more than its competitors. Taking the leap to start his own business and his wife getting sick only three days later. And much more. Vance Morris. Welcome to Sports Management Podcast. I appreciate it, Marcus. Thanks so much. It's great to have you on the show. You are a consultant now having your own consultant business have worked for Disney for many years. And working a lot with the guest experience. Today we will talk a little bit about your background and what you have learned and how that can be implemented into the sports industry. Oh, certainly. Yeah. Pretty much everything, even though I work a lot with businesses. I have worked with a couple of sports teams and everything is interchangeable. If you're dealing with people, everything we're going to talk about is appropriate. Exactly. So let's start from the beginning. You went from working at the As a Security Guard at a birth control factory to designing guest experiences at Disney. So that's quite a journey. So how did it all start? And how has your journey been like? Yeah. So I promise you I will be the only birth control factory security guard you will meet all day today. I don't think you'll meet another. But that was a job I had while I was in college. But it's instructive because it gets people's attention. And most people won't ever meet one of those in their life. But so after college, my first real job was with the Walt Disney Company down in Orlando. And I was on the opening team of a number of their resorts, operated a number of their resorts, and really saw how a big company can still deliver really, really personal, magical experiences, even down to just a one person. At your time at Disney, you have described it as a masterclass in experience design. So obviously Disney is, you know, when you think about Disney, you think about, you know, happy memories and creativity and a lot of other things that comes up. But when you say masterclass in experience design, what do you mean with that? Sure. So every business has boring and mundane things that they have to do day in and day out to keep the business up and running. Answering the telephone, answering emails, greeting people in your office. Disney has just figured out a way to create experiences out of all of those individual things. You know, for instance, answering the telephone. How you answer the phone could be as boring as, you know, thank you for calling Dave's insurance. How can I help you? We've all heard that before. Or do you have something that separates you from everybody else in your industry? I did work with a number of insurance agents. And this one gentleman was a loved rock and roll. I mean, he had pictures of the who and led Zeppelin and autograph guitars and everything. And, you know, we decided that answering the telephone was one of the big areas where we could see improvement and help filter out people that would make a bad prospect or would not be a good customer for them. So we took this whole rock and roll insurance thing and one of his employees actually came up with the way they were going to answer the phone. Thank you for calling for Dave's Allstate, the agency that rocks. It's a little corny, yeah, but it does a couple of things. One, nobody else is answering the phone that way and they can't. So it's separating you from the rest of the industry. And two, if you remember, your marketing is designed to do two things, attract the people you want to do business with and repel the people that you don't. So just by answering the phone this way, we're sifting, sorting and screening out, people that would be a bad client for them. No, that's really interesting. And I know in sports now, you know, it's a lot of talk about fan experiences and how to connect with your fans from, you know, from the moment they're thinking about the game, buying the ticket, arriving to the arena, the experience at the arena, but also how can you connect with the consumer when there is not a game day, when there is a day off for a way game stuff like that. So a lot of, I guess, learnings from what you just said can be implemented from what you did there at Disney and into the sports industry when it comes to teams or other right-todders. Yeah, and there's a couple of things that you just said there that are really vital to keeping your fans excited, keeping your fans engaged, and it is on the days off. You know, what is the team doing to engage with the fans to keep them excited about the team? You know, I'm a firm believer in doing things by the mail. So I mean, if it's a local team, you probably are in a local geography. So reaching your fans by the mail is something that I would fully recommend people do. Because I mean, if you do it just by email, well, you know, it can go into the spam folder or it might not ever get there. And then, you know, okay, well, is it really interesting that I'm going to open that up and read it versus the other hundred emails. I've got in my inbox. But if you send something through the mail, I mean, there's not much competition anymore in the mailbox. So, you know, you can send newsletters, postcards, you know, teen gifts, stickers, something for the back of the car, you know, things to help keep your fans engaged. And then all of the things, you know, that happen between ticket purchase and the actual event, there's a lot of time that could elapse. And so how do you keep them excited? You know, Disney, you spend a lot of time waiting at Disney. I mean, you wait in line to see the ride, you wait in line to, you know, for food, et cetera. So Disney has something called line entertainment where they entertain you while you're in line. So the weight doesn't feel so bad. And I think in our businesses, we can certainly, you know, if you buy the ticket today and it's going to be a month before you go to the game, well, there's 30 days for somebody to, you know, well, I don't, you know, the game's on a Tuesday. I maybe I don't want to go or well, that was kind of expensive. Maybe I want to sell that day. So there's a lot of time for people to change their mind. So within that time period, what are you doing so that they don't get buyers remorse and so that they do are excited to come to the game when it arrives and you're not really compressing time. You're just making it feel like it's not so bad and you keep them entertained and engaged. I like that. And I used to work for an amusement park in my home city in Sweden and they had the same thing as you said, like, this is a line activity that when you're waiting for one of the rides, you could play a mobile game that you like you, Scandic, you are coding, you play some game while waiting. But how do you think this could be implemented into sports? You said like, from you buy the ticket and then there's 30 days up until the game. What are some things that rights holders can do to keep the customer intrigued? Yeah, sure. So again, just sending stuff, whether it be, you know, scar for hat or whatever. And then, you know, if you're not sending something physical because there is an investment there. So if the team is not all that financially sound, you know, we do a lot of those virtual happy hours or virtual parties where everybody just gets together. I mean, if it's done well, it can be really good. But do it.
doing a Zoom with 200 fans on the Zoom and everybody's got their favorite drink and their favorite team hat and everything. Certainly, there is that. You could be doing interviews with the players and coaches and team managers and getting them excited, okay? What are strategies you're going to use next week versus this team and really having their own YouTube channel, having their own podcast where they can continue to interact with their fans in a way that the fans consume because everybody consumes entertainment and media differently. May I'm a reader? I like to read things. Other people love video. Great. So we need to have a presence on YouTube or TikTok. Others love to listen to podcasts because maybe they have a, you know, they're in the gym for a half hour or they have a long commute. And so they'll listen to a podcast. And every team should have a minimum of podcast if not a YouTube channel and it doesn't have to be overly produced. It just needs to be there. Get a good host who can interview the players and take deep dives. People love the behind the scenes stuff. I mean, you know, you look at Netflix now. I mean, there's, you know, there's US football has got behind the scenes on everything. I think there's something on Arsenal now from the UK. People love the behind the scenes or the, you know, what is this person really like in real life? And you know, you have the camera that follows them for a day or something like that. I think a lot of that can be done, you know, between ticket purchase and game day. And now you also have a huge library of content that can continue to be repurposed over and over again. No, that's really good point. And you, of course, that digital content is really important. Is this day and age and we're having, you know, the younger generation, they are living on social media and their phones and that's where they consume most of their content. But you said a very interesting thing in the beginning that with regular mail that you don't have as much competition there. Do you think that you still can reach the younger demographic with the snail mail, so to call 100% and I think like I have my kids are 23 and 26. So they would be in that generation. And my son is a big Manchester United fan and there's two local Manchester United clubs in the Washington DC area and they, one of them has a print newsletter. I mean, it's nothing extravagant, but it's a four page. You open it up and, you know, it's got, you know, some team bio and maybe, you know, there's actually a section in there for the player's favorite recipe. I mean, who knew, right? So yes, I think 100% getting in front of them with something like that, putting contests in the mail, you know, stuff where it's interactive, where the fan actually has to do something, gets them involved with the team and how they feel like they're part of the team. So this is the lead up, let's say, from the bottle ticket until you go to the game. But when you're at their own game day, I know at Disney you talked about on stage that employees consider to be on stage. So how can that be implemented? First of all, what does it mean and also how can the, how can this works industry apply that at their games? Yeah. So Disney takes a lot from theater as their business terminology. So on stage is all of the guest areas. So the restaurants, the rides, everything that a guest would see as they're walking through. Backstage or offstage is literally like being at a theater. All the props are in the back. Things that you don't want your guest to see because it will ruin the image or ruin the show if they saw all of that stuff going on. And I think that a lot of it is especially for the on stage stuff is not just a physical on stage, but a attitudinal on stage as well. So do your ticket takers and your concessions, workers and people, are they leaning up against a wall, they're face buried in a telephone or which would be really, that's bad show. Or are they attentive and looking to be what Disney calls aggressively friendly. So if people are, so Disney, if you're lost, you're looking at the map and you're trying to figure, okay, where do I go next? That's a visual cue for the employees to go, ah, they look lost. I should probably go help them and we'll go over and say, hey, can I help you find something? Same thing in sports. You're looking at your tickets and you're like, okay, well, where do I go to get to this section and this seat and you know, you can tell when somebody looks lost. Well, instead of just sitting back with your arms crossed, the employee should be going up and say, hey, can you help you find your seat? Let me, you know, let me walk you over there. The on stage areas also need to be presentable. You know, at Disney, we did what was called a good show, bad show, walk through. So at the beginning of every shift, a supervisor would walk through the entire work area and note things that might need to be fixed. Maybe there's a light bulb out or the plants are dead or something needs to be painted. And all of that is documented and then acted on and given to the different departments to make sure that all that stuff is fixed. You know, I mean, when you're going to, I mean, trash laying on the ground is something that is detracting from the experience. We know that we get it. And I think having a fanatical attention to detail is what's really going to help that on stage appearance for sports teams and arenas and things like that. You know, does the trash lay on the floor until the end of the game and then everybody just comes by with a big broom and sweeps it up? Or do you have somebody whose job it is throughout the entire game to be looking for trash and just doing little sweep up so that it looks like it's ready to go? You know, is there abundance in the food service or abundance in the merchandising or does it look like there's one hat hanging there and it looks kind of sad? Those kinds of details detract from the experience and any one of them is not the end of the world. But if you add four or five little detractions up, now people are like, well, geez, I just paid 50 bucks for this ticket. This isn't worth $50. This is like worth 10. And so now you have problems with your pricing. So the more you can create the experiences on stage, pay attention to detail, making sure the employees are dressed well, here in Maryland, I own a number of home service businesses. And a couple of the rules I have are one, you're not allowed to wear cologne and two, you're not allowed to smoke while you're on the clock because there's nothing worse than, you know, running into the Marlboro man who just smelled like he took a shower in some kind of acts or cologne or something disgusting. That detracts from the show. So having those kinds of rules in place, really letting your employees know, hey, this is what we need to do to create a great experience. And here are the rules, here are the guidelines. And this is how we should move forward. Yeah, like that. And as you said, it's important to feel that the customers get value for their money. And I know that you have talked about also, terrible moments. So that goes in a little bit to the experience as well, right? Yeah. So people are going to talk about your team or the experience they are. We need to direct what they're saying. We need to give them the words to use. And preferably it's positive because they're going to talk about how the game went. Other than team one or loss, they're still going to say, oh my god, you know, team loss. But man, I just, you know, they had this incredible, you know, Italian sausage that had this that and the other thing on it. And at the end of the interaction or at the end of the game, what you want your fans saying is, oh my god, you'll never guess what happened at the stadium today or at the game today. And you want that to have obviously a positive answer, not a negative one. So what can you do that is maybe different from other stadiums or other teams? I'm sure you've heard of the Savannah bananas here in the US baseball team. I mean, completely, I mean, he has taken Ringling Brothers, Circus and Disney and combined it with baseball. It is a show. And do you need to go to that extent? No. But can you take some of the things that they are doing, you know, with, say, you have a baseball team, okay? Well, sometimes baseball can get a little slow. What do you do between innings to entertain people? You know, certainly, you know, soccer matches, you know, you don't have a lot of time because, well, there's not very many breaks in the game. But what are the experiences that are happening in the stands, you know, or the seats comfortable, Are they clean? Is there access?
to concessions, do you have a VIP area? Do you have an ultra ultra VIP area? Because those kinds of things will get people talking about the stadium or about the team. For sure. And I think many people associate creativity with spontaneity many times, but I know that you're a big fan of the systems and that system creates freedom. Yeah. What is the thinking behind that? Sure. So when I opened up the Yachton Beach Club with Disney, we walked into the training room. You have to remember this is before there was a computer on every desk and nobody had telephones. I mean, we use big thick binders of paper and we walked into the room and they were just stacks of binders everywhere. I'm like, what's all this? And my boss was like, well, these are all of the SOPs and OJTs on how to open and operate a Disney resort. And you'd think like, oh my god, that's a lot. But if you can get your employees, and this is what Disney does is you learn your job and it becomes like muscle memory. It's a road. You don't have to think about it. And if you do that, now you have the freedom to do all of the nice little things that Disney is known for. So if your job is to sweep the the foyer or sweep the concessions area and you know that that's what you got to do and you're doing it and you're doing it. But you're not thinking about it. And then somebody's, you know, dad's taking a picture of the family. Well, that guy should immediately say, hey, you know, why don't you go ahead and get a picture. I'll take the picture for you. You know, or you know, the kid's ice cream cone falls on the ground. Okay, great. Immediately go in and get the kid a new ice cream cone. I mean, it doesn't cost much. But you want the kid to have a great experience because if the kid has a great experience, mom and dad will have a good experience because the kid isn't cranky. And then you go ahead and you clean up the the dumped over ice cream cone. So it's really prioritizing, you know, what is important to the business? What is important to the team? And you know, you have to understand what you're selling. So Disney knows that it's selling happiness and memories. That's what they sell. Yes, they run a theme park in hotels and TV stations and everything. But at the end of the day, they sell happiness. So what are our teams out there selling? I'm sure they're selling entertainment. They're selling fun. How do you make sure that your fans are actually having fun? Or are they annoyed when something goes wrong? So I think those systems, when your employees know exactly what their job is and they don't even have to think about the job, it gives them time and freedom in their brain to think, oh, look, somebody needs help. I should go over and help them. And also your analogy with a kid in an ice cream cone there, used also because there is so much cheaper to keep a customer than to acquire a new one, right? Oh my gosh, you're not kidding. Exactly. So when you already have gotten the customer there, it's so important to keep them coming back instead of going out and acquiring new ones. And that is true for any business. And I think a lot of businesses, sports teams included, forget how much money it costs to get a new customer. In one of my businesses, it cost me $126 to get a new customer in the front door. Now that's a lot of money. But when I look at it, it only costs me $22 a year to keep the customer. So every time I serve an existing customer, I'm $100 more profitable. And the experience that you're providing is going to determine whether they become a lifelong fan or, well, okay, that was nice, but I'm not going back. I'll just watch it on TV. So yeah, having that frame of mind is vital. You got to know your numbers. Definitely. I'm interested in like when you decided to leave Disney and start your own different ventures, how was that thought process like? Why did you come to that decision? Well, I make a lousy employee. I don't like to be told what to do. Just ask my two ex-wives. And I had a couple of jobs in between Disney and going out of my own. And I managed to get fired from both of them. So I figured, well, I should probably go start my own thing. And so I started the home service businesses here in Maryland. I started them all from scratch, so from zero. So it's not like I just bought into a business or had something handed to me. I've got a market, the business advertised, do the service, et cetera, et cetera. And as the business grew, I knew that one, I was going to be marketing to an affluent clientele. Affluent people have plenty of money. And they're more apt to pay for an experience than somebody who's coupon clipping or pinching their pennies or things like that. And that served me very well. So to this day, this is 18 years later, our company pricing is about 40% higher than our closest competitor. We're still busy. We have a wait list. And as we went, we continued to not rest on our laurels, so to speak, but we are constantly doing things to improve the experience. Because well, one, it gets kind of boring if you do the same thing all the time for 18 years straight. But two, as we improve the experience and we improve the value that we're delivering, we have what's called price elasticity. We can increase our pricing without the risk of losing a customer because the value and the experience is there. And I think, teams that have tremendous value or delivering value, excuse me, and are delivering the experience can charge more for their tickets than somebody who just, okay, show up. Here's your hot dog, watch the game and leave. So I mean, we talked about that before the value of money there or basically like you said, the experience wasn't worth $50. It wouldn't have been worth 10. And you said your price 40% above. So are you making then a 40% better service than your other customers? Why are they still keep coming to you for a higher price? Great question. And I would like to think that we do our job 40% better or we do a lot of a couple of the businesses are for cleaning. I'd love to say we clean 40% better. But if I'm being honest with myself, we're not. I mean, there's only so many ways to clean carpet. But the value that we deliver, though, is far and above what my competitors do. A couple of examples. We offer warranties and guarantees. So which my competitors don't. So there is a value to warranties and guarantees. We offer a concierge service. And it's an annual fee. And if one of our concierge clients calls in, they could put right to the front of the line. And so I mean, if somebody had sloppy kids and they dropped a hot dog on the floor, you know, will come out probably within definitely same day. But probably within just a few hours to take care of them. So that value is there. Also, you know, I talked about the no smoking and no colon wearing. You know, if you have somebody coming into your home and they and they stink like that, it is very off-putting. And when somebody or when a customer or a prospect is annoyed or is irritated, they don't spend money. I mean, they might, you know, they'll have you do the service. But if you were to try to upsell them or, you know, offer a different service, something psychologically with them is saying, yeah, you know, I don't think so. You know, how we treat the homes that we go into. We treat them with, you know, complete respect. We do a lot of entertaining. So, you know, we have to get into somebody's home to do the cleaning. So we do an exaggeration of wiping our feet on this carpet. Then we put little booties on. And at the end of the cleaning, we actually give little booties to the kids to wear out the house. It's all of the little things you just keep adding all these little things together. And it equates to a fantastic overall experience. It's about going that extra mile. 100%. You're going to go an extra quarter mile. That's all you need. The bar is set so low these days, then all you have to do is just a couple inches above that bar. And you're good. I mean, I'm making fun. Yes, going extra mile is what you need to do. But your competitors are not doing it. So just a little bit of effort on your part. And you'll be far and above. Why do you think that is? Because I know Dana White, if you know from the president of the UFC, he says the same things that if you're a young person today, if you just like have a little bit of drive, you will run everybody over because that just doesn't exist in most people nowadays. So why do you think the bar is so low nowadays? I think
One, a lot of people are lazy. And that's everywhere. I don't matter. US, Europe doesn't matter. I think it's just some laziness there. And I think that a lot of companies and teams are trying to be everything to everyone. And when you do that, you, your pricing goes down. And when you become a generalist or when you have a something that's average, you can't increase your prices, which is actually, you know, it just compound. So if you can't raise your prices, that means you can't hire that one extra person who might make or break the entire experience. But because we're only charging a little bit, you know, it's everybody's so price conscious these days. And I think that having just a little bit of a thought, see, everybody thinks that they're delivering a great experience. Let me give you a statistic I saw up earlier this year. So there was a survey of businesses. And when they asked the owners, do you deliver great service? 80% of the owners said yes. Yes, we deliver great service. But when they went and they surveyed the customers of those businesses, only eight percent of the customers said that that company delivers great service. So there's a huge disconnect. And I think a lot of managers owners, they're stuck in the day to day. And they can't see that the standards are slipping. Or they have no standards. And I think that's what really separates the great companies from the average is that you've got to have set service standards. You know, how fast do you answer the telephone? Is it within five rings, three rings, one ring? What is your standard? You know, you greet somebody at the ticket counter. You know, what, what is the timing and what do you want them to do? Do you want them to just kind of have their head down and say, yes, what can I do for you? Or do you want them to smile and make eye contact and say, Hey, welcome to the stadium today. It's going to be a great game. Here's your tickets to very different ways to do it. But certainly one is well below the bar. And the other one is above the bar. Yeah. It's that sense of urgency, right? That you talk about that when you're getting something on your table, like you treat it with a sense of urgency. So you're answering fast. You're doing it as, you know, every case is important. Yeah. 100%. And one of the things, if you want to get your employees engaged in this is they have to understand the why we do things. You know, we're pretty good at telling them what to do. We're probably pretty good at telling them how to do it. What we don't do is tell the employees, why do we do it this way? And once the employees understand why then there are a lot more engaged and there are a lot more apt to follow and deliver the standards that you're looking for. You know, the reason we, you know, greedy guests in 10 seconds or less is so that they feel recognized and that they will, you know, make a purchase or make a larger purchase. Why is that important? Well, it keeps you in a job. You know, if we, if the guests aren't happy and they're not served right, then they're not going to make the purchases and if sales go down, so do the employees hours. So it's really showing them the entire picture of how, you know, the business works. Yeah, definitely. And let's talk about leadership and, you know, creating this culture. So you have led large hospitality teams and small business teams. We've talked about this thing about keeping the best service possible. How do you lead and create this culture for your teams? Sure. Well, you know, certainly it starts with hiring and I hire people that have a heart for service. You know, people that will, you know, I don't care what your job used to be. I can train you to do anything. I can train you to clean carpet. I can train you to carry a train in a restaurant, but I can't train you to do is be nice. I can't train you to be on time. These are things that you have to bring to the job. And so when you're interviewing, you have to ask questions that are going to get beyond the actual things that they do and really learn, okay, are they customer centric? Are they proactive? Once we have them, it really starts with your new higher orientation and the beginning of the job. Do you tell them do they understand the culture of the team? You know, what is the team been through? Because a new employee, if the team's been around 50 years, a new employee doesn't know how the team started. And how, you know, the owner of the manager, you know, had to, you know, they had to sell this to build the team. And, you know, they almost went bankrupt and, and then, you know, we got this player and all of a sudden we were really busy and people were flocking. And then we just build, build, build. People have to understand that culture. Disney has something called traditions. And it is a full day and a half of learning about Disney before you ever go to your new work location. And then I think as far as management and leadership, there is anything I will ask an employee to do that I won't do myself. And they will see me. And actually, you know, a lot of times I much rather be doing the work and out there talking to guests and fans and things like that. I would much rather be sweeping the street or. But so you're showing by example that you're willing to do these things. And you have to be congruent with your messaging. If you want your employees to be aggressively friendly and seek out guest contact, well, you need to mirror that as well as the leader. Yes, a leading by example, more or less, that's what you're saying, right? Yep. 100%. We have talked about this there. There is a lot of opportunities out there for someone who's working hard. So, you know, for the young people listening that they want to either, you know, work in the sports industry, maybe become an entrepreneur, what are some advice that you have for them? Make connections. So my my third son is a freshman at university this year in Philadelphia. We are big Philadelphia Eagles fans for the US football. And he met the COO of the Eagles at a college event. And the COO told him, you want to work at the Eagle Stadium. You got to stay in touch with me. You've got to continue to network. You've got to continue to, you know, be out and about. You know, he says, look, if you're just selling popcorn, that's fine. You're in the arena. You're in the environment. Doesn't matter what your job is. Just get into the environment. Use social media, preferably linked in, you know, to connect with management of the teams. And say, you know, hey, look, I, and my son did this. He was the guy, the COO asked him, is do you have a LinkedIn account? My son's, no, I mean, he's 18 years old. And he says, well, first, go get yourself a LinkedIn account. Second, I should be the first person that you connect with so that we can stay in touch while you're at school and we can get you into the Eagles organization. So networking, like nobody's been volunteering, you know, especially if it's a small team and you can't, you know, they can't afford to pay for certain things. Being in and around the sports world will help you. And it's building your resume, you know, doesn't matter whether you, you know, were a ticket taker or concessions. Yes, I worked at Eagle Stadium for three years while I was in college. Looks a lot better than, you know, I worked at McDonald's, you know, so just get into that whole atmosphere, I think, is the first step. Yeah, no, that's a good one. And I like to end on a networking note. But one question before we get there, has there been any bumps on the road in your career? And if so, how did you overcome them? Bumps, are you kidding? Bumps? They're not bumps, they're freaking mountains. Yeah, we ran into stuff, you know, you're running to a brick wall all the time. It's how you react to that. And what do you do when I first started my first business? We were supposed to live off of my wife's salary. She was a regional manager for Starbucks while I was building the business. Well, three days after I signed the contracts for my new business, she had a cerebral aneurysm and went into the neuro ICU for 11 days. And then she was fine now, but she was for two years, was unable to work. So our income went, you know, overnight, literally down to zero. And I'm like, well, I guess I could go get another job. I'll be miserable. Or I can make this thing work. And so you just put your nose to the grindstone and you do what has to
to be done to make your business work. And I think it's how you react to every one of those roadblocks, speed bumps, brick walls. How do you react? What do you do? Are you just going to cave in and fold and say, "Well, I tried. I'm done." Or, "Do you just pick yourself up and say, "All right, what's next?" It's fun you say that I talked to a previous episode about the guy who started his own swimming company like Swim School. And he said it wasn't until, like, year seven. "Got successful. I was making money." And I said, "What happened that year?" He's like, "I ran out of money. I had to." So it's a little bit of an idea. When you have no other choice, sometimes that actually might work in your favor, right? 100%. And you know, it really is a mindset. And one of the things, especially if you are starting any kind of business with sports related or not, is you have to seek out and surround yourself with experts, mentors, coaches. I mean, even if you can't afford to pay for a coach, go and get a book by Jim Rohn or Ziegler, or, you know, start to learn and get the right mindset. If you can join a mastermind or a networking group, you should do it. Because being an entrepreneur is a lonely place to be. And isolation kills entrepreneurs. So you have to be out amongst people just like you in order to survive. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. If someone wants to get in touch with you, is LinkedIn the best place? Yeah. LinkedIn, Vance Morris. I don't think there's too many of us there. And then if they want to reach out, I have a hot sheet, which is 52 ways to wow your customer without breaking the bank. So it's 52 no or low cost ways to really wow your customers. And you can get that at wow52ways.com. That's awesome. So what I told you before, I like to end on a networking question. You mentioned the importance of networking. So who from your network, do you think would be a good guest on this show? Oh, wow. Certainly there is one sports marketing professor from St. Joe's University in Philadelphia. Would be great. And if you're looking for marketing person who's brilliant with marketing, Kevin Donnellan is absolutely amazing, brilliant copywriter. And I mean, he could sell, you know, snowballs to Eskimos. No problem. That sounds good. Vance, thank you so much for taking the time to be on sportsman management podcast. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the sports management podcast. Please hit the follow or subscribe button on your podcast app so you don't miss out on any upcoming episodes. If you want to get in contact with me, send an email to
[email protected], connect with me on LinkedIn or follow the podcast on Instagram, X and Facebook at sportsmpodcast.
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