Speaker 1hey misfits hope you're good welcome back to the james kennedy podcast what have you been up to you had a good week i've basically just been working my ass off all week every day which is pretty much my life in all honesty but i can't complain because they're all things that i choose to do for myself my problem though is that i don't let myself enjoy any of them you know like i set myself this goal like i'm gonna fucking climb to the top of that mountain you know metaphorically speaking i wouldn't climb anything too lazy but then i can't then not do it because i've told myself i'm gonna do it and i and i'm not happy until i've gotten to the top so the entire process between saying i'm gonna do it and then eventually getting to the top whether that you know is a day or a week or a year or whatever um is unpleasant which is just the strangest psychology you know i'm just frustrated until the thing is finished and then i immediately pick a new mountain to go and climb it's such a bizarre thing to put yourself through so have i been outside enjoying the sunshine no i haven't i've been sitting inside a studio with the windows closed for the audio in my black skinny jeans probably a black hoodie at some point as well um with the curtains closed just blasting through my workload with a frown on my face but then some of you know that i'm being a little bit dramatic for uh you know self-depreciative effect here because anyone that follows me on social media knows that i actually spent all day at the beach on sunday so i'm talking absolute bollocks and you know what i loved every damn second of it i'm not going to apologize because lying by the sea is my favorite place to be you know it's just something really primal and i don't know what it is about lying next to the sea you know the ebb and flow the inhale and exhale of the waves of nature you know something very calm and meditative about it and also you know just staring out at that horizon that vast expanse of nothingness essentially you know i just find it great for creative thought or self-reflection and it's also humbling as well it makes you aware of your insignificance ultimately and the sheer scale and force and wonder of nature do you know what i mean man my god when did i start talking like such a hippie let's get the guest on quick before i start talking like trying to sell you crystals or some shit got a good one for you guys today we're talking about the music industry touring and brexit and how it's basically made touring musicians lives an absolute nightmare so thanks for that leavers now as well as being a multi-camera vision director for artists such as lady gaga peter gabriel mcdonald's and the who tim brennan is also the man behind the carry-on touring campaign which is urging the government to implement visa-free travel around the eu for touring artists and entertainers tim's petition gathered over 280 000 signatures and was debated in parliament tim continues to campaign to this day and i'm mad keen to find out where things are at so tim brennan welcome to the podcast sir how you doing
Speaker 2man hi james yeah i'm good mate i'm good yeah how are you doing i'm
Speaker 1all right man you know i'm hesitant to to say once again that i've got a bit of a bourbon hangover making a bit of a recurring theme now and i think people are going to start to realize that i've got
Speaker 2a problem you know yeah actually i i've also got a bit of a hangover as well i just won too many last night
Speaker 1what's your tipple of
Speaker 2choice uh i had a nice couple of pints of local bridge burton bridge farm ale and uh and i walked back from the pub that was a that was cool nice but uh yeah no it was um it was a good evening and um i think i had too many so well some
Speaker 1days you know it's just got you know and you've got a lot to pat yourself on the back for the weather's good so hey you know
Speaker 2why not yeah yeah no it's it's good it's all good yeah well i want
Speaker 1to talk to you today about your incredible carry-on touring campaign which is obviously you know massively relevant to me as a musician but you know this is an issue that affects so many industries as well and you were the guy that started the petition that got over 280 000 signatures and was debated in parliament so that's a huge achievement and it got such viral momentum as well so you know thank you for starting that and raising awareness and getting the word out there and i think it's a really good thing about ball rolling um how did
Speaker 2it start yeah no thanks well the reason i started it and tell me if i won't ramble on about stuff but the reason i started it was i was sitting listening to i think nick ferrari or someone like that on on the radio um i was just getting more and more angry about what i could see was going to happen with regard to touring and the the red tape and the nightmare that was gonna ensue after after the final sort of brexit deadline so i i randomly sent off this petition to parliament and um you know it's a funny funny thing you don't really hear much back from me they ask you for five signatures so you go and say to a few people sign this for me and then and that was it and then it then the next thing i know a good friend of mine a drummer called jed sent me a message and said have you seen this petition i went yeah that's my petition and he went yeah i know and he said um he said you know it's gone viral and i looked at it it was about six or seven thousand signatures and this was like christmas eve and so i said to the wife this has gone a bit mad and she's and we sat watched it that evening and it was being pushed by um quite a few sort of um celebrities and we watched it go from five thousand to over twelve thousand and then over the next few days it just went it just skyrocketed we hit we hit the sort of debate part like the hundred thousand and then when it gets debated we hit in about four days or five days that's amazing and then um and then it just continued on and on so but you know it was like wow what what you know what what so many people obviously uh affected by it and concerned by it you know well
Speaker 1people love music don't they people need music you know we see this time and time again on issues that affect the arts and you know music in particular um the general public and the music loving public will put their hand up and be counted you know they'll get behind whatever campaigns they need to to support the arts and to support the musicians that make the music that is the soundtrack to all of our lives the problem is that that isn't mirrored in the hallways of power where these decisions are made
Speaker 2well yeah i think that's that's the issue that we're facing and i think we've as the campaign has as it has progressed we've garnered a lot of support right across parties you know so we've got tories we have obviously a lot of labor supporters a lot of you know a lot of s smp you know there's this is right across the board and this this campaign it's not really about brexit as such it's about finding a solution for uh the problems that's been caused by brexit you know it's finding a way through all this red tape yeah um and i think the one of the biggest things as you say is that you know you've got the corridors of power and like the dcms ministers and this and that whatever you write to them and you frequently write to them and ask them questions and this out there but they constantly come back to us and say it doesn't fit in with our manifesto pledge to take back control of our border and it's like you've said that for the last 18 months you know you keep repeating the same line and i i think it's it basically it sends back down to to the home office i think it's pretty patel saying look well i'm not budging on this really and i think that's where it's that's where it's sort of stuck to be
Speaker 1honest yeah well for those listeners then who don't as yet know what we might be talking about would it be possible for you to explain exactly what the new situation is for you know artists entertainers freelancers in many industries who who are now trying to um do their trade in europe post brexit you know what what are the new challenges that those people face
Speaker 2sure okay so let's first of all i'm not going to go through the there's let's start with um work permits and and uh and visas basically so each sovereign countries there's 27 states or sovereign countries as you like to call them um each one has their own right to set their own work permit regulation and so um someone like france and germany spain and i think as well now i've sort of said well okay you know where's where say you can come over here for 30 for 90 days uh and and work without need of a permit although you technically you're supposed to let them know that you're actually there working um and i think they can throw you out if you don't but it's other other countries uh i think i think it's hungary you have to register as a uh as a resident uh before they will give you a work permit so you know you who's going to do that that's that's that's the truth um the biggest problem we face though really is access to the shengen area yeah and that actually comes down to you know we're not allowed into the shengen as we're now third what's called a third country national um and that means that you've seen all the hassle in dover over the last couple of weeks it's basically uh you can only go into shengen for 90 days at a time yeah and there's no way around it and then once you've had your 90 days you you're out for 90 days and that's why we say it's 90 and 180 yeah yeah right so essentially you can go in there for say you go over uh for 10 days you do a 10-day stint then you come back for two weeks and then you want to go back again you know you've still got bear in mind that first 10 days and so you're then only allotted 80 days and then you you know it's it turns into it Where it turns into an issue is for not sort of for artists as such that go in and out because normally they're not normally over there for that length of time but yeah there are people out there like technicians like myself who will go from tour to tour to tour and that could potentially go way over that 90-day limit um there's opera singers that that you know sign on to uh for an opera in say spain or somewhere like that and they often frequently go well over that 90-day limit so they're not being asked to do it that's the same with the dancers and the same with everyone right across the board to be honest um so that's the big issue for us so you've got two things there you've got the access for the 90 180 you've got to take uh take that into consideration you've got your work permits to think about and then if you want to take gear with you you know if you're taking a guitar fine if it's your own personal guitar and you can carry it through the you can carry it through the through the board and facility you don't need a car right
Speaker 1now you've just you've just led me straight into the next question because i was going to ask you if you could explain the horror of the dreaded carne for people who don't know
Speaker 2well so things are changing on this but as at the moment as far as i'm aware if you're carrying a portable instrument and it is only instruments so guitars i think drums you know maybe a keyboard or
Speaker 1anything you can carry
Speaker 2yeah anything you can carry through through a border a violin or whatever um you can you can carry through without the need of a carne you will need probably um proof of ownership you if it's an instrument that has uh rare woods in it you'll obviously be subject to this i think society's uh issues and that's another kettle of fish um but if you if you want to take anything else like a tool toolkit or an amplifier even an amp head or or if you're a photographer you want to take cameras or laptops and stuff like that then that's it that's where you need a carne
Speaker 1explain to them what a carne is
Speaker 2so the carne is basically a document that says that you're you're you you apply for the carne you pay a fee and then you're you get it stamped on the way out and you get it stamped on the way into europe and then you get it stamped from leaving europe and you get it stamped and way back into the uk and basically it's a document that says that you won't sell that piece of equipment whilst you're over there and that that's kind of what it's about it's to stop you saying well i'm going to sell this guitar and that's it because obviously you know there would be import duties and all that to pay yeah you know so that that that's basically the need of it why why we have
Speaker 1basically well it's just an extra headache to have to deal with on top of everything else isn't it for bands who oftentimes probably don't know what they're doing with this stuff i mean if you're a small band like you just described you know you're all you're traveling super light you're all carrying say you know one instrument and it's traveling with you and you're sleeping on sofas and perhaps borrowing it you know the drum kit the venue or something like that then great you can circumnavigate it it's not a problem but you know if you're a professional band you know traveling around europe in a splitter you know you've got drum kits and amps and cabs and boxes of merch you know this is a big deal and i think it's a big deal and i think it's a big deal and i think this is a royal pain in the ass isn't
Speaker 2it well that's it i mean to be fair once you're in schengen you're kind of okay in that sense you don't have to sort of go once if you if you go between france and germany for instance you don't need you won't need to present your paperwork there right um it's it's only your entry into schengen then go entry into europe and entry out again yeah you know so x out again basically you know so that that's that's the issue one thing to note is if you're driving a uh a van or a splitter um and you've got a car now you're probably going to end up have been loaded down the freight lines on on the ferry or the train and um and you'll get hit again uh for for freight pricing which is quite a bit more than you would if you uh if you went through the normal channel so you know you've not only got the cost of your car now which is about 390 quid plus whatever the bond is uh then you'll you'll have um the cost of your freight freight tickets as well um i should say let me explain the cost on the car now you've got the fee to have the have it produced as i say it's around about a 350 pound mark and then you pay a bond and the bond is based on a on the value of the kit that you're taking right and and it's essentially it's an insurance kind of like an insurance policy you pay that bond and then you i believe you get the bond back at the end of it yeah right so that that's the carnage um situation and then obviously um birch is uh is another nightmare to be honest i i'm much is not my real strong point i've never really had to deal with it to be honest um but it's my understanding that if um um you're allowed to carry uh in your personal baggage um out of the uk you can carry i believe it's 1500 pounds worth of merchandise but the the flip is if you you can only take into europe in your hand baggage a thousand euros so basically do one thing ignore the 1500 quid uk limit you're allowed a thousand euros to take into into into the eu and that's per person but and this is the big sticking point um you have to be careful about the rules of origin and that's so if your t-shirt see you've got a bunch of t-shirts printed they've been produced and made in china and then you've had them shipped into the uk you've had them printed by a local t-shirt company and you go right that's it i've got my t-shirts off i go you've got to be really careful the rules of origin state that you'd be importing those from china into the eu and that's will stick um and that's the bit i don't really know that much about so that's where i'm going to end it on that one but it's it isn't it's there's plenty of people out there ian smith my co-buddy on uh carry on touring is much more up on that side of it well
Speaker 1that's already quite a lot of stuff and there's there's so much capacity there for error and confusion and i can just imagine for a band that like an independent band particularly there's a lot of bands are doing this now you know independently you know without the support of you know a label infrastructure and stuff like that this is just an absolute fucking minefield you know this is just an absolute fucking minefield
Speaker 2i i yeah i just have to say though you know it sounds like a nightmare and and i don't want to say say look it's a nightmare forget it but you know it is doable you can do it it's just that it's going to take a lot of red tape and a lot of hassle and a lot of grief right there's a lot of bands out there that are doing it and uh you know you see them on facebook or on twitter and stuff but i think once the information starts being built and we start getting people regularly doing it and we can sort of say to someone what happened there and and you can say yeah i can i understand what's going on you know you need to go to that board right or that yeah or you know to go here for this document or that document no you know what i mean and we can sort of say right guys if you wanted to yes you can do it these are our guidelines these are what we're saying yeah how to do it right
Speaker 1you know we can sort of say right guys if you wanted to yes you can do it these are our guidelines
Speaker 2this is something that the government should be putting together for us and to be honest as far as i can tell anything that's been achieved so far has been done by the industry itself you know i've really stumbled well i think you made a really
Speaker 1important point there because you know the bands that are out there at the moment doing this are kind of the first over the hill and they're the first out the trenches and obviously you know i'm part of that community so i get the feedback from people and you know none of it so far has been good but you know once there's been a bit of time perhaps and we've got a bit of a knowledge base and a bit of a pool of advice and experience from the bands that have already been out there and done it now you know then perhaps over time it might get easier because you know people will know what to do because that knowledge gets passed around and gets pandered down but you know we shouldn't be having to fix this ourselves you know this should be sorted by the people that created the mess in the first place which is the bloody
Speaker 2lawmakers well yeah sadly that that is the case um i should say there's a lot of information out there already um so uh on our on carryon touring.uk our own website we we have a lot of links there's a whole section called the info info hub and on that um there's one document on there which is really handy because it's it shows you where to go what what you know in the pool and and uh where to get your car they stamped and and where and where to get all the paperwork done basically yeah got you that's on the uh if you're in the musicians union you can access a lot of great information on their website um and the same with the institute i'm sorry the incorporated society of musicians the ism they have some fabulous uh information readily available all about work permits ian smith and um uke artworks he he's got a lot of information on there there's links to all of this stuff in in the carry on touring.uk uk website uh info hub page good plug there sorry about
Speaker 1that plug plug away plug away i've got your link straight to plug if we want if we want people to get on the website and get informed you know down straight and also to get behind the campaign and help out you know that's
Speaker 2what we're we're what we're trying to do is put information in front of people to sort of say look guys it is possible it's a royal pain in the butt but it can be done don't be put off because that's the what the last thing we want is to for people to say do you know what i'm not gonna bother
Speaker 1yeah well we have seen you know a lot of bands you know falling off festival bills and you know canceling huge swathes of dates in certain territories and stuff like that and there's a lot of i think it's very convenient to blame things on covid at the moment but it's happening so much i i honestly believe it's got more to do with finance yeah because it's so damn expensive to do a tour i mean even as a a mid-level successful band you know with label backing you know you're thousands of pounds in the red before you even set foot at the door yeah so i think with these extra obstacles and barriers to surmount i think it is turning a lot of bands off and we are definitely seeing that and it can't all be the fault of covid
Speaker 2no i i definitely agree and i think you know that that's that's a real shame because i think we have so much um cultural and and different types of bands to offer uh a new sort of music coming out all the time you know it would be criminal for it not to be not to be turd um you know especially like the issue like with streaming you know artists aren't making money from streaming anymore they have to make it from from going out on the road yeah people and if that stops because of of the problems around brexit then you know that's gonna that's gonna have a massive impact on what music music's coming out these days totally totally yeah you say i mean there's not an hour in the day when i haven't got music around and it's for me you know it would be a living nightmare if suddenly one day there was no more music you know yeah well that is one thing
Speaker 1i've said this on other episodes so you know talking about the music industry and stuff like that is one thing that this country does so damn well you know we are like top of the league i think you know on the world league table of you know look at the iconic bands we churn out man it's you know it's easy to name all the old classics but i mean you know we're still doing it now you know what i mean there's so much good music coming out of this tiny little island and uh i think it's one of the things that's going to happen in the future of our best exports you know we suck at many things you know like food being one of them but um you know when it comes to music man you know we're uh we're hard to wrestle with no that's
Speaker 2right that's right indeed and i will shout out for all the people on my stuff like all the tax and stuff as well because you know there's a lot of people a lot of time in in parliament and they're talking about labor is terrible for this they'll talk about the issue and they'll say oh we're trying to sort out the issue from these musicians too in the eu but it's like oh i it's not just musicians true it is the musicians it is the dancers it is the the the um the individual artists it's the photographers the fashion people theater actors there's so many people that are affected by this you know and like you say our creative industries in this country are second to none we we produce stuff that is phenomenal and and we we have so much to be able to push out around the planet and people people around the planet are always coming to us and looking at what we're doing and watching and and you know it's an amazing how how this small island like you say produces so much great content and have
Speaker 1you seen yourself or do you know of any research or studies that have been done on this yet as to whether there has been a detrimental effect on the industry or are things kind of staying afloat and functioning as they were despite the extra or has there been a noticeable detrimental effect on our industry or your industry
Speaker 2i i yeah for definite there is there has been we're getting to a situation where someone like myself i i work for um various bands either directly for band or for a production company um i work for a lot of american production companies uh and they will come over to europe and they'll pick up like a local crew like myself when we might show around europe and then they'll say to me right come on we're off to australia we're off to the south america or the far east um and they're saying to me now well actually we can't take we can't do that we can't we don't want to pick you up to take you around europe anymore because of all the extra hassle right you know i've had american production managers saying i'm sorry we're having to use the european crew or crew that have dual nationality or dual passport
Speaker 1well once you've done your 90 days as well you can't you know
Speaker 2well that's it again i mean that why why are they going to give me the job or or people like person like myself when they can go through someone who's maybe an irish person with with an eu passport who's not restricted to the 90 days yeah you know that's where we're losing out and it's and that's losing not a massive amount of income for this country you know and we keep saying that to the government but the government just keep coming back with this same old same old you know well you made a very
Speaker 1interesting point and i think it's a very interesting point at the start and i i sort of jumped in and steered you elsewhere at that point but i'd like to come back to it if that's okay now you mentioned that you think that this actually truthfully comes down to pretty patel's immigration policy and keeping a hard line on the hard border which is non-negotiable as far as the home office is concerned with everything you've done on this campaign now since you started is that your conclusion as to what you think is actually going on here
Speaker 2yeah right i think absolutely you know everything everything we've done has always come back and it's always been that that same answer you know we it's always down to oh we can't do this because of our manifesto promise you know well how many other manifesto promises have they broken you know you've got people like lauren frost who who's admitted that you know the the eu offered us a better deal and they turned and said no it's like well why why did you do that yeah what i don't get is it's not as if someone like myself or you or any artist they're going to go on tour europe they're they're going out there they're going to play their shows and then they're going to move to a different area we might come back to the uk they might go to america or australia and they're going to go and play shows there they're not going out to live they're not going to go out and suddenly go oh do you know what i'm going to stay here and live in france or i'm going to live in germany right or if it's and it's the same the other way around so if a french band want they're not going to suddenly want to jump ship and say actually i'm going to stay and that's that they're too busy thinking about the next show down the road and going well i'll get to germany's you know yeah so i think there's there's a big the whole thing about this is i think you know there is a sticking point there and i think until until something changes radically i don't think they're gonna give us any any leeway on it
Speaker 1oh man that sucks well
Speaker 2one of the things that really really we need help on is that we're not going to be able to do anything about it we're not going to be able to do anything about it we're not going to be able to do anything about it we're not going to be able to is is this 90 and 180 day rule yeah 100 you could get some form of exemption or maybe like a two-year access fees or anything that would give us the ability to say look guys we're we're as i say we're we're here just working well i'm here for 100 100 days i'm on this tour and then i'm off again yeah i'm here for six months on this on this show do you know what i mean it would be so much easier but i'm not going to be able to do anything about it i'm not going to be able to do anything about it i'm not going to be able to do anything about it i'm not going to be able to do anything about it easier but until we can get that that sort of um that process until we can get persuade our government to take that on board and take that to the eu and sit down with the eu and sort of say come on let's try and make this easier but let's make this work i until that happens i don't think i don't think we're going to get anywhere and i think frankly i think the sticking point for that for my my opinion this is my own personal opinion the sticking point for that is a home office right i just think pretty patel as fratley said no that's it um and that's where we're at well not
Speaker 1that we needed any more reason to hate pretty patel but you know i suppose uh the death of our musical export would be a good one you know on on top of all the other evil that woman is responsible for but let's not get into that i mean um is there any hope in any of the political parties you know is one party stronger on this issue than any other or is it you know a minority of mps cross-party that are fighting the corner
Speaker 2on this no i think i think there are genuine um i think there's a genuine want to to sort the issue out i think i think yeah the cost party wise i think i think most parties actually want to get it sorted out it's just the sticking points you know have got to be ironed out i think i think labor i think smp liberal dems and and so it's the and some mostly a lot of the tories you know if you look at what um what they're saying a lot of the mps are behind us you know they want to get it sorted out we've even got a staunch brexiteers um i can't remember his name but one of the one of the main brexiteer guys a conservative um he he's supporting us right he's saying well yeah okay it seems weird that this guy's supporting us but no it's because he wants he wants to find a solution to the problems as well yeah i can see why he's i think i can see that he's looking at it in the kind of kind of way that he needs to make brexit a success and finding a solution to this mess will help him make it a success i mean i i quite freely admit i voted to remain and i don't see brexit will ever be a success but no you know if we can find a solution to get this mess sorted out and maybe a few other messes sorted out then maybe we can sort through it but
Speaker 1well it's only an agreement isn't it it just needs to we just need to have an agreement that this is um a work visa essentially you know um because we're there working you know it's good for their economy it's good for our economy you know it's not um it's not an immigration issue because as you say we're not settling we're moving on and we're coming home again you know it's it's a work
Speaker 2permit well like you just said just there it's it's it's not about just us it's about the local economies that we go to and i've been saying this for a long time you know if if a band like a pays a 50 000 seat stadium in you know in amsterdam plays say maybe the right stadium and um you know 50 000 people turn up to watch that gig that's a lot of transport that's a lot of restaurants that's a lot of maybe a lot of hotel rooms a lot of taxis yeah you know all the security staff all the bar staff all of these people that that rely on that work you know that's a lot of money going into those local economies you know i always go i always give this example sasha lord the guy um from manchester who's the nighttime czar as it were he said to me once you know he put some park life up in manchester and he said that brings in 17.1 million pounds into the economy for manchester yeah you know that that's a huge amount of money and this is happening all around all around europe there's like festivals now that are being cancelled because you know they can't get the uk bands to go over
Speaker 1there yeah you know
Speaker 2and that's like that's some of those those festivals are in quite remote parts and it takes a big hit out of those areas you know so but it's not just those big shows you know it's just it's the little guys how many little shows were there all going on over nighttime all over europe you know and they all have all that all has a knock-on effect damn
Speaker 1right i mean you know and
Speaker 2i kind of think that's one one area that we can put some pressure on um on the eu from that side of it by sort of saying to these to these local communities these nighttime mayors and whatever it's all saying to them look you know have a word with your your um cultural ministers and your financial ministers and say look this is affecting us not having these people coming over you know and maybe we can get some traction that way
Speaker 1well how does it affect um bands in europe coming to the uk then i mean i know that i like i can keep i keep banging on about bands and i'm keeping this very you know music industry focused when you know as you pointed out you know this this doesn't just affect you know my community of rock bands you know that this affects you know tons of industries but just keeping it sort of you know narrowed down on the musical side of things how does it affect european bands who want to do dates in the uk i don't think
Speaker 2it's as bad as such um they there's a number of channels they can use to come into the uk um one of which i mean and this is in the strong point because he's as a as a booking agent himself he's he's used to doing this sort of stuff um but basically one of the things that he is is the way of way of doing it is a certificate of sponsorship now ian is is a guy that can organize his certificates of sponsorship i can never say it and basically what that means is um he got they an artist will go to me and he'll arrange a certificate uh when the artist comes into the uk they bring the certificate with them they have to have it stamped to have it to at the airport or wherever they're coming in and it's crucial that they get this stamp because if they don't get it stamped then then this is happening a lot if they don't get it stamped they're working illegally in the uk right and that throws up a lot of issues so again vitally like us going out we have to abide by their paperwork their rules we have to do the same they have to do the same coming here right you know so there's a lot of it does affect them it affects them both ways yeah it's so
Speaker 1irritating it's so pointless i mean what's the what's the what's the point of all of this you know i mean what did we what have we gained we gained nothing but you know i don't want to go down a brexit wormhole but you know i i voted to remain the same as yourself and the fact that this affects the industry that i've spent my entire life working my ass off in just the same as you have in yours in such a terminal way is just doubly offensive to me you know i mean i hate brexit anyway for every other reason i don't know i don't but you know this just adds you know it just leaves an even worse taste in your mouth doesn't
Speaker 2it oh definitely definitely no it really does i mean uh as i say the the day that the vote was announced as like oh why are we doing
Speaker 1this i know i know i know for me there was like a sequence of things i can't remember the order but there was there was boris johnson there was brexit and there was trump and it just became staggeringly clear to me that like we can't do this we can't do this can't be trusted you know don't give us a vote don't give us a referendum because we cannot be trusted to not fuck things up for
Speaker 2ourselves no no no i mean i've all i hope is that there's there's a resolution to it somewhere along the line you know well your
Speaker 1revolution is what we need not resolution but but i think i think one is likely more likely than the other so speaking of resolutions then i mean you know thanks to your amazing campaign um you actually got this issue in parliament so could we talk then about what the nature of that debate was what was the outcome and is this an open-ended conversation ongoing or are we case closed now
Speaker 2with this so really it was more about raising awareness of the situation um i i think a lot of it a lot of the the whole thing was kind of under the radar and i don't think people really realized what essentially was going to happen and i i you see that a little bit in some of the comments some of the tweets that you see like uh ministers putting out uh about oh you can just go through they should just wave you through dover you know there's a lot of misunderstanding about the whole the whole issue um but yeah so i i think the the the petition the debate um and everything was was about raising raising awareness of um of the of the situation right um and that's what the case is and i think that's what the case is and i think that's what the campaign's been about i mean off off the back of the the petition we we we had the debate and we started the campaign um and the campaign's been going as i say for 18 months since december 21 but um 2020 sorry but yeah it's it's an ongoing debate we as as as you well know we're we're going to be uh we're fortunate to have one of the lords the sponsor of the um for us um in the house has the parliament in september on september the 6th uh and we're going down to have a have a meeting with parliamentarians and and try and build the case more you know we've we've got uh we've got an amazing industry uh an amazing amount of people fighting this corner it's not just carry on touring as i said earlier you've got the musicians union you've got the ism you've got the live group you've got the music union you've got uk music you've got uh feature artists fac you've got music um music managers there's a raft of um of organizations that are fighting this corner um and you know it would be remiss of me not to sort of give them a shout out because a lot of it's been achieved it's been achieved by these these other organizations you know right great so but yeah when we we are a bit of a a shout a lot the um you know make a lot of noise that's our campaign that's what we try and do you know unfortunately i've got a lot of good uh good followers on twitter and uh so we you know regularly quite get quite viral tweets retweeted across the board so to just make make people aware you know that yeah this is what's going on you
Speaker 1know so since the hearing then you know despite you know the amazing work by yourself and and many others uh in getting it this far uh there hasn't been any political progress to speak of as yet is that is that where we're at no i
Speaker 2have to say there has been there has been some progress we we have um you know uh spain for instance and we're one of the countries that were up in the air about their work permit situation they've now come on board and that was uh that that came about because of the industry we're talking to the promoters in spain and we're talking to the promoters in spain and the promoters went to the spanish government was saying come on guys you need to sort this out so that that that's that's come around the same in greece that that's that's come on board there are there are maneuvers there are countries beginning to to do this um we had a recent fairly recent win with regards to trucking um it's a bit of a difficult one to explain but essentially uh the situation is now a lot of large trucking companies have moved half their fleet into into europe so they're based and the truck itself is registered in europe right um those that it's in itself makes a bit of an issue if you take for instance one a large tour that's out at the moment has got say 50 trucks on it and those trucks move from from france say into the uk you know before this agreement uh that would happen a couple of weeks back um those trucks would be uh stopped and they'd have to a uk truck would have to come along pick up the trailer and take it off um but now we've got this dual registration situation where the uk have given us a kind of a turning kind of a blind eye letting us come in with those european trucks do the uk leg and then going back out again without having to have the trucks dual registered and that's quite a big win you know sadly that doesn't help um the smaller companies and it certainly doesn't help the the the uh the the the orchestras that own their own specialist trucks yeah yeah yeah those guys are still struggling to just to do to do their tours um but yeah there are there is progress you know you can't say that there hasn't been progress there is progress right it's but still you know we need to still keep banging on about this yeah until proper proper answers and proper discussion
Speaker 1so what can people do to help them people listening to this you know the general public can they pressure their mp can they raise the issue with them yeah or is there something else they should
Speaker 2be doing no for sure um the best thing to do is to email your mp and and just put pressure on point them at point them at the carry on touring website or the musicians union website or the ism you know get the mps to sort of raise it crazy crazy issue you know that's what we need we need more people raising more mps raising the issue in parliament so that you know it puts pressure on the government to try and get it sorted out so that we can get it sorted out so that we can get it sorted out that that's that's the only way we're going to get it sorted we need the government to actually listen yeah you know and that that's where it comes from you know it's it's the fans we need the fans to to to get out there and shout about it and how can people
Speaker 1support the carry on touring campaign um by
Speaker 2all means uh you know if you go onto the website you can sign up um yeah yeah just follow us on twitter just retweet anything you want to know that we're putting out uh follow us on we've got a facebook group um yeah uh just on social media just follow us uh retweet stuff okay
Speaker 1so basically yeah get to the website then at carry on touring let me just make sure i get this right carry on touring.uk and from there you can be linked through to all of the other pages such as twitter which is carry on touring underscore so give the guys a follow on everything stay up to date stay informed and you know get in touch and figure out some ways that you can help as well and like tim said share stuff amplify things and you know get involved in the petitions and the campaigns and just spread the word as well you know educate your uh you know your friends and your family about this stuff you know because it doesn't just affect you know the music industry like i keep suggesting that it does you know as tim said this affects loads of industries and it has a knock-on effect through other industries as well you know so please do get involved and try and amplify and help in any way that you can and as tim said get on the backs of your mps as well you know make them aware of this and keep hammering on about it you know they have to speak to you and as tim said you know there are many mps who are on side with this issue and will do everything they can to to fight the cause from within the halls of power which is ultimately you know where the where the change is going to happen so you know there is plenty of things you can do so please do get involved and you know there is hope as well because as tim said you know there is that support there throughout all of the major parties within the mps so even though we are far from the finish line the fact that that support already exists and that awareness already exists should be a powerful source of hope
Speaker 2yeah it is it is yeah and without the support of the mps that we have and the lords and you know without that support we we wouldn't be anywhere so you know hats off to them for supporting us and and trying to get the mess sorted out you know it's um it is a mess um you know i sometimes i despair of what the government are doing and and it is sometimes it can be very very difficult to carry on you know and i think it's a very difficult thing to do and i think it's a very difficult thing to do you know yeah but it's got to be you've got to carry on because it's not just about old farts like me it's about the youngsters that are coming up that want to go out and do this stuff i mean i've been touring 30 years and and i've been all over the place i've had great fun youngsters that are just starting their careers they've got all that to look forward to so you know it needs to be sorted out for those guys and the fans and you know everyone
Speaker 1really amen amen no one one hundred percent man well we know change of any kind is is possible because we've seen it before so all it takes is the will and the effort and the energy and the morale behind it to make it happen you know although we are up against some pretty stiff opposition on this one because of course you know we haven't spoken of their name in a while but you know we are ultimately up against the devil incarnate on this one which is the aforementioned priti patel
Speaker 2indeed yes indeed
Speaker 1sorry man i had to get one final dig in you know well tim thanks so much for your time today man i'm gonna let you go thanks for everything you've done to lead the charge on this and for you know giving us the lowdown on where we're at and everything today as well best wishes with the rest of the campaign and everything that you're doing and hopefully we'll see you out there in the trenches sometime
Speaker 2okay no worries it was good talking to you you too
Speaker 1cheers tim take care man speak to you soon cheers tim brennan ladies and gentlemen let's hear it for him so there you go now you know now you know what's going on at the end of the result of that campaign so i'm going to give you guys a little bit of an idea of what's going on at the end of the result of that campaign you know as if us musicians haven't got it hard enough as it is already we make no money on streaming our venues are closing down left right and center nobody thinks it's a real job or takes you seriously you know and then you know this happens so now we can't even go and perform in europe without added barriers and bureaucracy and ball lake you know if there are any staunch brexiteers you know leavers that are listening to this whose general views on brexit are unchanged i hope i have to listen to that you can understand our position on this i hope you can understand our as people who whose industry is affected by this and even if that doesn't change your view on brexit more generally i hope that you can see the need for this restriction to be lifted on our particular industry and and others you know i mean these are just pointless strangleholds which serve no purpose whatsoever and could easily be lifted and changed so come on brexiteers we need you on site stop reading the weather spoons magazine and get involved you like music too right you know what what what's it like right wing brexiteers listen to i don't know um ted nugent or something i don't know right i honestly don't know but this isn't just a music thing anyway you know this is something that affects so many industries probably most of which are already on their knees after two years of um pandemic lockdown you know this isn't an ideological left or right issue you know this is an economic and a cultural one you know so i think everybody can get on board and get behind us on this so get over to carry on touring.uk and on twitter at carry on touring underscore there's other links as well on the website to the link in the description below and i'll see you next time the facebook group and you know i think there's instagram as well give the guys a follow and stay up to date on the progress and how things are developing and you know remember to share stuff and help to amplify and raise awareness and spread the word speak to your mp and do anything else you want to do smother yourself in marmalade and run around the streets of westminster naked if you want to screaming you know about this that would be really cool if somebody wants to do that i wholeheartedly endorse your efforts so there we go i hope you enjoyed the episode thanks again to tim for being brilliant and coming on and chatting with us today um before we go i want to thank you one final nag you know what i'm going to say if you know what i'm going to say why haven't you done it yet subscribe to the goddamn podcast hit the subscribe button now hit the follow button hit whatever you got to hit to you know keep me happy and make sure you leave a rating as well and leave a review in some comments and as always send me your thoughts i shall see you next week with another awesome guest and another awesome episode of the james kennedy podcast in the meantime look after yourself stay sexy stay awesome and i shall see you next week love you loads bye
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