Speaker 1welcome back to the album years and this is going to be part two of 1983 now tim we're getting to the point now where we could almost done a whole season on one of these years couldn't we in fact maybe that's what we should have done in the first place it's just done like a six episodes on a year and that would have been one season and then six episodes on another year because it's hard isn't it i mean i don't know how we did it frankly because i mean i'm looking at the list of of you know records for this year 1983 and it's i'm not surprised i'm not surprised that we're already on to a second episode because there's a lot you know there's a lot to talk
Speaker 2about yeah it partly depends on the year that we're dealing with as well and you're right you know you could do entire seasons on certain years because they were kind of important musically and culturally and there's
Speaker 1a lot to talk about the next category you had on the list just picking up from where we left off and by the way there's been about a month between when tim and myself recorded the previous episode and this one i was in a hotel room in chile last time we talked about 1983 i'm now in a hotel room in zurich and a month has gone by so forgive us if we don't remember exactly what we talked about but i think we concluded by talking about the sort of you know the rise of the the so-called stadium bands and the next category you've got is kind of a catch-all category you've got elsewhere and i think what you're talking about this is just is albums that don't really they don't really fit into anything and i think again that's kind of a sign of the times in a way it's becoming harder perhaps to to categorize
Speaker 2we didn't discuss the isla singaza and ben watt and the cherry red era and one kind of realization i came to a couple of weeks ago really was that none of these cherry red artists i mean cherry red at the time i think was as much a revolutionary label as 4ad and factory but it seemed to have even more of that kind of psychedelic hippie ethos even though it was in a post-punk era and what i kind of realized was that bands like isla singaza really couldn't have fitted they weren't quite as cultivated or as cool in some respects and so cherry red in a way was a marvelous label for ragged outsiders and i'm saying you know that's a kind of perception i've come to relatively recently whereas if i'd have listened to them at the time these artists were all a part of that post-punk maelstrom of creativity yeah you're
Speaker 1right i'm sorry i did skip over the cherry red category i think i meant to come back to that and i'd forgotten that we hadn't but yes i mean you they're a label very beloved to us of course and one i think you agree with me one of our favorite albums is is ben watt's first solo record north marine drive which is so beautiful and so simple and so diy that it seems to almost i mean again we talk about this a lot an album that doesn't seem to belong to the era it was made in it doesn't belong to this era it didn't belong to that era it almost wouldn't have been out of place being released in the early 70s or the late 60s um alongside some of john martin's classic records i think which were big influences on him but but at the same time even as i'm saying that it has a diy naivety which belongs completely to the early 80s and the post-punk era and i listen guys are in a group that that just seemed to to never belong uh in the best possible sense of that phrase they never belonged to the era they were they were operating in and they still don't and i think that's why their records still could they're they're not bound by the technology or the culture or the zeitgeist at all which must have been very frustrating for them at the time you know to struggling to get press struggling to get attention um but luckily there was as you say there was this label cherry red and mike alway particularly very famous a and r guy that was prepared to go out on a limb and sign these kind of misfits uh in a way weren't they
Speaker 2yeah well i think what i liked about ilas and gaza and what i liked about them to an extent was that they could and would go anywhere there's kind of a psychedelic sense of experiment so they could go from um a pop song to a 12 minute drone to a real post-punk chaotic piece to a beautiful autumnal ballad influenced by 17th century folk and i think one of the things that was likable about them is that they didn't seem to have very many boundaries really and when i was saying that i didn't think these artists were were cool they were cool enough in a way for 480 and factory who had very very strict views of how artists were presented and how the packaging looked you know and in both cases i absolutely adored it you know 480 and factory artwork remains amongst my favorite uh favorites and 480 and factory bands some of them remain amongst my favorites but i really liked this home for misfits that cherry red was and an interesting fact is that momus who ended up on cherry red on l was originally into 480 with the happy family and apparently eyeless and gazza were offered a contract with 480 if they would change their approach and kevin hewick actually was originally signed to factory and in his own words got dropped because he wasn't cool enough because he was coming from sort of zeppelin roy harper peter hamill tim buckley he had really quite eclectic mostly 60s 70s influences and although his music does have a real anger that fits into a kind of post-punk singer-songwriter and and stripped down arrangements that almost help it fit in with what billy bragg was doing at the time you know often it's just distorted electric guitar and his voice but he was coming from a different tradition and then it was kind of interesting that yeah before such hunger for love he got um booted off factory and of course he did i think audition for um joy division curtis's death or at least he did some work with uh the nascent new order
Speaker 1yeah it's hard to imagine kevin hewitt fitting in with with factory i think he is the quintessential misfit as indeed eyeless and gazza but what it's interesting because you mentioned the fact that eyeless and gazza were not afraid to to do you know something relatively direct in terms of pop you know but and i think unlike bands like abc uh or the the who will come on to in a moment who came from a different from a very post-punk diy low budget kind of like level making records at that level getting signed to big labels and suddenly having big budgets and producers like trevor horn at their disposal eyeless and gazza never had that and none of the bands on cherry red ever had that they were making records for very very small budgets but as you say they were in a way i think moments too in a way um not perhaps not at this time but certainly in some of the later records records like tender pervert and don't stop the night aspiring in a way to sound like big glossy pop but falling short because simply they didn't have the budgets or the technical know-how perhaps yeah but making really compelling records anyway you know again this thing about while you're trying to achieve one thing you kind of accidentally achieve another yeah yeah this is just no way in anybody's mind is this you know chart worthy pop music but maybe that's what they're hearing in their head when they're doing it i don't know maybe that's what we were doing in no man in the early days too look that was pure pop gold steven perhaps but perhaps we were deluded perhaps to everyone else it was do these do these fools really think they're making pop music here you know um and i think that's lovely when you hear a band like eyeless and gazza or someone like that attempting you know their idea of mainstream pop and it's disastrously you know incompetent on that basis and in that context but it's wonderful anyway so let's come on to um i just mentioned them you know three of my favorite bands of all time released their debut albums this year and these are bands which did make the transition from the sort of diy indie level to being on major labels for big producers so we've got as you know that's not necessarily true of tears for fears tears for fears made their debut album this record the hurting the the matt johnson who'd been with 4ad recording under his own name now signed to cbs records or i think he was signed actually to some bizarre wasn't he who had a a deal through essentially he was on cbs anyway making his debut record as the the soul mining and mike scott who'd been on various been in various indie bands um signing to ensign and making the water boys debut record now all of these bands very different of course i wonder which of these is probably closest to your heart after all these years tim i'm gonna guess probably the the
Speaker 2yeah you're right and and i think what's interesting about the the is that if you listen to what matt johnson was doing only two years earlier burning blue soul the album that's on 4ad he was as radical and as experimental and as borderline unlistenable as many people might find the more out there moments of eyeless in gaza so it was really interesting that without kind of compromising the mood of his music without compromising the kind of bedsit lyrical intensity he managed to make the transition from very experimental post-punk artists to viable 80s pop artist and i think that's quite impressive it's
Speaker 1interesting what you just mentioned there that that's all still in there isn't it yeah you can still hear that you can still hear the experimentation but it's somehow got this pop sheen to it it's he's got the hooks he's got the melodies he's got the pop songs that are going to get him on top of the pops and the same is true of the of the tears for fears the hurting i mean lest we forget the debut tears for fears album had mad world on it which has become one of their most popular songs um but but at the same time if you listen to that record these are guys that have grown up with early xtc records these are these are their reference points um peter gabriel three and four these are big records for for roland and kurt at this time this is what they've you know this is where they've come from and yet somehow they've made a record which has more of a pop sensibility than all of those records put together and immediately they're having massive massive top 10 hits and hits and hits and hits singles um and they were never cool and i think maybe that's part of it they never had that kind of baggage weighing them down they could go straight for the pop jugular but at the same time you can hear in much the same way that you can hear in soul money you can still hear all of those more impressive experimental avant-garde influences too that's a hard thing to pull off isn't
Speaker 2it it isn't and i remember at the time when they did interviews they were talking about people like laurie anderson and peter gabriel three and four they were mentioning a and you could hear it in the music and uh and they'd very you know naturally use those influences within it and probably the hurting you know might be my favorite tears for fears album actually because there's a kind of raw electronic edge to it and mad world is a fantastic piece although interestingly enough i really like the um the roland orzabal led version of the band elemental that era i thought was quite underrated as well well i'm
Speaker 1sure we'll come on to that when we when we i'm a massive fan of the band and i'm sure we'll come on to that when we when we come on to of elemental and raoul and the kings of spain yeah but we'll come on to that soul mining you know obviously the the haven't been the most prolific over the years but this is another record which i think has really stood the test of time hasn't it it still sounds like nothing else he's he sounds quite angry doesn't he he's always sounding a bit angry and a bit pissed off matt johnson even on these early records yeah but he's also he's also making records which you know they've got a lot in common in a way with what trevor horn and and steve lipson are doing over at his att they sound big he's obviously very very in love with the possibilities of technology and lush epic um unapologetically you know pompous production but but much like the tears of his record it's still got that edge from post-punk and um and some of these artists like peter gabriel i mean how you know how much how important are those because we talk about them quite a lot those early peter gabriel records and and some of the early kate bush records they seem to have been quietly so influential on this kind of period of time the sort of mid mid 80s they're so ubiquitous in their influence and you can hear it in so many of these artists or am i imagining it i don't
Speaker 2no i don't think so and i think you know because obviously i bought a lot of these albums when they came out and i remember being absolutely blown away with gabriel three gabriel four with kate bush the dreaming you know when sat in your lap came out as a single in 1981 it was astonishing and it did feel as if boundaries were breaking in real time when you were hearing this music so i do think they they had quite an impact at the time on people you know laurie anderson's oh superman and laurie anderson's debut as well you know these albums were quite unlike what had gone before and what was interesting is that some of these artists obviously kate bush i love her late 70s albums i think we discussed in 1978 lionheart one of my favorite albums of that year if not my favorite absolutely beautiful but she completely reinvented her vocabulary on the dreaming partly influenced it must be said by i think gabriel's experiments and it was amazing how they'd ripped apart their musical vocabulary and put something together again with technology and i'm sure that you know a lot of artists were listening to that i remember when we were in the studio with brian pugsley who worked with the work with bjerk and he was saying how influential those albums were on him in just in terms of the use of rhythm the use of sound um you know rupert heinz albums around that time very similar that there's attention to detail on every level every texture every rhythm and i'm sure that you know that filtered through to some of the young bands upcoming but you know listen to the tears of fear one of the qualities i think that allows it to survive is as you pointed out the lack of cool because actually as singers one of the things i kind of like about roland and kurt is they're not putting anything on they're just singing and this was an era when very affected vocals were very much de rigueur were very much the order of the day and matt johnson as much as i might prefer soul mining he still has that slight post-punk in which he's using his voice and tears for fear has had none of that which i think is kind of
Speaker 1interesting i think you're right there's another album this year of course that uh by a band beloved very beloved to us that is also i think simultaneously sometimes out outside of the zeitgeist and the time it was made but is also using the technology of the day and that's xtc's mama and you know i think a lot a lot of people now it's become xt their favorite xtc album is i've lost count of the times i've heard people say oh mama's my favorite xtc album because it was considered an incredible failure at the time you know um coming on the heels of english settlement and the fact the band are retired from touring and there was no hits on it a band that just a band that just seemed to you know kind of exist in their own parallel universe uh and and this is the beginning of that in a way isn't it
Speaker 2i think you're right i think this is where xtc become more themselves and they're gradually unmoored from the pop mainstream because i think before this point there are very celebrated inventive post-punk band that were very much beloved of the music papers and this was almost where they're kind of slipping away and the music papers saw them as willful eccentrics and again it's now my bought at the time it's now my loved at the time i was particularly drawn you know the single loving a farm boy's wages is one of my favorite xtc pieces but there are there are a lot of moods on this and there are a lot of um quite subtle experiments you know it is more bucolic it is more melancholic it is more melodic but it still has some very powerful rhythmic moments it plays with dissonance and it seems to me this album to be xtc unchained and i realize that you know the technology to a certain extent defines it and that's a characteristic i actually quite like um you know the use of the fairlight and so on but it feels to me like this is the band's future and it's going to be the band's future and it's going to be the band's future set loose and kind of finally becoming what they actually are yeah i mean this
Speaker 1is this is the first time we hear xtc attempting anything you might call electro pop you know with with wonderland for example uh which is not something you could have imagined them doing on black sea or english settlement can we just backtrack a sec tim because we did we did mention it briefly in passing but i want to go back to it because i think this is another of those albums that's almost a potential album for this podcast which is ben watt's north marine drive because i know we both absolutely adore this record and again it's a record that almost seems like a complete anachronism it must have seemed like an anachronism at the time but it's a record that probably not a lot of people know now ben what people will know from everything but the girl which is the band he's he formed with tracy thorne his partner um shortly after making this record but he made this record was he like 18 or something when he made this record
Speaker 2young i mean he made an ep about a year before called summer into winter which is still my favorite thing that he's ever done and he always claimed that he got the deal because he'd read that mike alway idolized jurority column and john martin so he put together a demo that combined aspects of john martin and aspects of jurority column and got the deal an ep summer into winter resulted on it and it's very fragile very beautiful there's even an instrumental on there and north marine drive is kind of an extension of that with maybe a slightly stronger john martin influence than robert wyatt or jurority column i love
Speaker 1the summer into winter ep too but i think what's different about um north marine drive is also the introduction of those kind of jazz chord voicings he's using on the guitar um but you know if you had to describe it i think it's you've done a really good job it's almost like john martin filtered through sort of jurority column isn't it except that there is also this um almost boss and over sort of sensibility sometimes the jazz got you know antonio carlos joe beam kind of like you know chord voicings on the acoustic guitar but i think he made the record in like a couple of days it's very low budget it's very intimate it's very organic it's completely an anachronism in so many ways it must have stuck out like a sore thumb at the time but it's a record that sounds completely timeless in the way those classic john martin albums and the way those classic jurority column albums sound completely out of time and timeless i adore this record And I think, would you agree with me, this is almost like the kind of quintessential The Album Years record in a way, isn't it? Oh, good God, yeah. For me, it's the one that goes with the Virginia Astley album. It has that same bedroom school piano aesthetic. It's very naive. It's got that yearning quality to it. This is a, let's face it, this is a boy who has yet to experience a lot of life. And it's very, very touching, very touching for that reason.
Speaker 2Very much so. And there's a purity to his voice. I mean, the closest really is Robert Wyatt in the sense that he has that slight southeast accent, that real vocal naivety. But it's a lovely voice. There's something tender about it. And that's an interesting thing that, you know, Such Hunger for Love and North Marine Drive are very much Cherry Red records. But one thing, I guess, Such Hunger for Love by Kevin Hewitt doesn't have is tenderness. That has vitriol. You know, that's relationships that have gone sour. Whereas this is all about yearning, hopefulness, life to come. There is a kind of, yeah, blissful naivety about it. And like I say, I really like the purity of his voice on it.
Speaker 1I find it incredibly touching. Even now at my age, I still find it incredibly touching and very relevant. It's almost like he was old before his time. There's something about being an old soul in a very young body that seems to come through and permeate this record.
Speaker 2And he never really did anything like it again. And, you know, and although you can hear, as you say, the jazz voicings came to play in Eden by everything but the girls a year later. And even when you listen to things like Walking Wounded, which I think is a beautiful album that everything but the girls did in 1995. And they were adapting drummer bass style rhythms. But I remember him at the time saying that he partly heard a kind of bossanova skittering quality in the rhythms of drummer bass. And you can actually hear this. That he's still utilising similar kind of chords. You know, these are very beautiful albums, even when they're rhythmically pummeling.
Speaker 1Yeah, I guess he never did anything quite as naive or innocent as this again. And perhaps he couldn't. You know, you can't. You can't. You can't fake that. OK, Tim, so let's let's go back to your your elsewhere list. Billy Bragg, Life's a Riot with Spy vs Spy. You know, I have this idea in my head of Billy Bragg, which which is the is the very strong. Stripped down just the guitar and the very cockney voice. I'm guessing this is I'm guessing this is pretty much from this that ilk, isn't it?
Speaker 2I mean, it's Pete Billy Bragg. It is the sound that you imagine in your head. And it was quite fresh at the time. You know, I remember him being on Ogre Whistle Test. And I think the thing is, again, with very, very little, he made it go quite a long way. And, you know, contrary to the image of him being this kind of ranting political artist. There was also something of the sensitive poet in his work. And he had a great sense of melody as well. So I was always kind of a bit of a Billy Bragg apologist, even though his music is very different from mine.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, he was kind of a cheap, a cheap guy to book, wasn't he? Because, you know, he would pop up on all these. He would pop up on these TV shows because he just kind of turn up with his amp and his guitar. I mean, it wasn't beautiful or lovely, was it? So it did feel slightly like you were being. I guess that's where his reputation comes from, of being this very political. Even when he was singing songs about lost love and these very tender, beautiful songs, it still sounded a bit like a rant, you know. So when Kirstie McColl took that song, New England, you know, so, ah, Billy Bragg wrote that. What a beautiful song. But, of course, his own version didn't necessarily have the same lushness to it.
Speaker 2Well, you know, it reminds me of, in that respect, I was going to say, it's a bit like Bob Dylan, isn't it? Because if you think of early Bob Dylan, you think of a ranting political artist. And then you listen to those songs delivered by Nico. You listen to it delivered by Sandy Denny or the Birds. And you actually hear there are beautiful melodies, very strong, poetic lyrics. And I always kind of saw in a way that Billy Bragg was like an English Bob Dylan for the early 80s.
Speaker 1Yes, that's a very good analogy. Yeah, because sometimes you hear a song like Mr. Tambourine Man, and then you go back and you listen to Dylan's version. And you're like, wow, you know, they really gave that a makeover. You know, it's a great song, but I would never have thought to myself, that's a number one. Pop song, you know. Cogtoe Twins, we've talked about the Cogtoes, I think, a few times on the show. I just adore them. Second album, Head Over Heels here. This is a transitional record. This is a record that's kind of going from the more kind of early Suzy and the Banshees influenced gothic post-punk sound. They're moving towards the dream pop era. It's a lovely record. I don't think it's their best. It is a transitional record. But if you like Cogtoe Twins, of course, you will love this record.
Speaker 2It's a great transitional album. And they're about to make that shift, isn't it? When Simon Raymond becomes the permanent third member and you're going to get. I think Treasure probably is the album where everything comes together.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. It's my favourite. Treasure and Victoria Land, that's peak Cogtoe Twins for me. I felt later on they became almost too smooth and they lost their edges. So, again, that thing we've talked about in some of the other episodes, where a band sort of. hits a certain sweet spot where they're between two points. And I think Cogtoe's reached that point on the next record for me, Treasure and the EPs that came out around the same time, Echoes in a Shallow Bay, Tiny Dynamite, Achy Guinea. This is peak. So Head Over Heels is well on the way to that. If you're a Cogtoe's fan, fantastic record. Elvis Costello and the Attractions, Punch the Clock. I think I've been very honest on past episodes and said I'm not an expert on Elvis Costello and the Attractions. But I do know this record. I didn't like it particularly. It's not. I do like some of his records. For me, this is kind of neither one thing or the other. It felt like a very compromised record to me. You're more of a Costello fan than I am, Tim. What's your take on this particular album?
Speaker 2Yeah, very similar. Never a favourite. I mean, on one level, this is a great period for him because this comes after Imperial Bedroom, which is one of my favourite Elvis Costello albums. And he released Pills and Soap, which I think is one of his greatest, most experimental, singles, and it is on the album. And he also, of course, wrote Shipbuilding for Robert Wyatt. And that is one of my favourite songs of all time. And that came out this year, the Robert Wyatt version. And this album features Costello's version of Shipbuilding. And Costello's version of Shipbuilding actually is really nice. It doesn't compete with the Robert Wyatt version, but then again, what does? And it's got Chet Baker on trumpet, which is a really nice touch. So for me, this album is really odd. You're entirely right. It's got Pills and Soap and Shipbuilding, too. My favourite all-time Costello songs. But the rest of it, it's a bit like him almost having heard Tear to Explode through Ward or Phil Collins' Face Value and making his own brass-propelled pop album. And one of the more peculiar aspects of that is that it was Enemies' album of the year in 1983, which, given how strong this year is and given how radical this year is, it's quite an unusual album to gain that accolade. Isn't it? It's not a bad album at all. I mean, he does it very well. There are a few excellent hits every day. I write the book and so on. But yeah, it's not the Costello that I personally gravitate towards. And I think that he kind of, towards the late 80s, I think the edge came back in his music. You know, Blood and Chocolates, I think, was a really strong album. But this almost seemed like Costello self-consciously embracing the mainstream.
Speaker 1Costello's one of those artists that the music press felt could do no wrong. Yeah. So you kind of felt that there wasn't any objectivity when it came to reviewing a new album. Costello album. I remember buying albums. I mean, I've tried many times over the years with Costello. I'm not the biggest fan. I do like him. I have massive admiration for him. Some records I really like, some records I don't. But I remember very often being disappointed with what I felt was the chasm between the rhetoric and the hyperbole that the music press wrote about these records and the reality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think this album is one of those albums for me. What I love about Costello is that it seems like with every album, he's kind of doing something a bit different. Yeah. And every album kind of earns, almost earns its place in the catalogue by not simply being more of the same. And it felt, it does feel like when I listen to the album, as you say, it does feel like he's attempting something, whether it comes off or not is another matter. But it's nice that he's trying with every album, okay, this time I'm going to do this because I've never. I've never done that before. Was it around about this time he also did a very traditional country record? Is that before or after?
Speaker 2That was just before, I think. I think he did that just before he did Imperial Bedroom. It was called Almost Blue, wasn't it? That was 1981, I think.
Speaker 1And I love the fact that he would do that because you can't imagine anybody else at this time, certainly not from the post-punk generation, attempting what is essentially a very traditional country album. I can't remember if we talked about that on one of the earlier episodes, but I love that about him. Yeah, yeah. And I love that about, you know, I love that about. About the sprawl of his catalogue, even if I don't necessarily like or love some of the entries in it, I love the fact that they are there.
Speaker 2I think you can hear it even on the very early albums, you know, like Armed Forces, you know, he kind of effortlessly brings in. Yeah, Armed Forces I think is a great album, but he effortlessly brings in influences from ABBA, you know, amongst other things, which would have been considered really unhip at the time. But clearly he can hear a quality in the music of ABBA and prior to that, of course, he'd experimented with Asperger's. aspects of scar. And I think it's quite nice that you know from a relatively um orthodox almost punk singer songwriter bass he really does travel quite a distance although um i think he started off as a singer songwriter i mean i've i've heard stories that he would be playing folk clubs in the early 70s doing lindisfarne
Speaker 1covers well that would make sense i know i know he was a big alan hull fan uh because he's in the alan hull documentary alan hull the leader of lindisfarne he's in the he's in the documentary talking which is really good documentary isn't it yeah the juriti columns another setting the third album we love the juriti column we've probably spoken enough about them i think it's safe to say this is not one of vinnie's best records of the first four it's probably my least favorite i would totally agree the ham patience love this record this is almost like the ham trying to do a slightly more stripped down uh guitar drum bass record isn't it but it still sounds quintessentially it's quintessentially the ham isn't it do you like this record tim i think yeah i
Speaker 2mean i think ntk and patience um they're good strong records this is what he always referred to as his beat group era as he was getting back to basics and the way that he did with an idea and there's some fantastic material on both albums you know i probably slightly prefer the more experimental and sonically searching future now and even sitting targets but i think these are really good albums and as i say some very powerful material on the title track um for patience you know patient that track i think is particularly wonderful it's
Speaker 1brilliant i mean i get a little bit mixed up in my mind ntk and patience kind of sort of joined together yeah so i'm not sure but is this album is this album got labor of love on it labor of love it's labor of love with one of with one of uh the ham's great sort of atonal lumbering riffs in the
Speaker 2middle he does but this track actually it comes back to what you were saying earlier about eyeless and gazza when they thought they were making pop music i always believe that peter feels with labor of love he's making a beautiful pop ballad that could be covered by perry como really but
Speaker 1then why would you why would you put that big atonal riff in the
Speaker 2middle because it sounds completely natural to you and it's what you think that well tom jones
Speaker 1should be doing you can get the ham on the phone and ask him exactly what maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm wrong maybe in his head that is pop music and that's why we love him kissing the pink naked yeah i know nothing about this tim and as we've already established i've done i've done no research for this podcast tell us about kissing the pinks naked
Speaker 2what is that electro pop post-punk um had a great single called the last film and like a lot of these bands uh you know random hold around this year or making similarly interesting sort of disruptive electro post-punk music you can kind of hear a lot of the music that's going on in the music industry and it's a lot of the music that's here that there's also a progressive ambition in the music oh is this
Speaker 1is this a band i should have had on my intrigue compilation then have i have i i
Speaker 2think i recommended them i think i recommended them to you it's it sounds
Speaker 1interesting it sounds like exactly the sort of thing i should have included on the compilation but you know as we've established there are big gaps in my musical knowledge and talking of which now metallica's kill them all came out this year which is the first metallica out metallica arguably the biggest metal band in history now and it's a band that's been around for a long time and it's a band that's been around for a long time this is where it all started now we don't cover a lot of metal on this show and i think without wishing to be apologetic about it one of the things obviously we do on this podcast is we focus on the things that we both kind of connect on and we both feel passionate about otherwise i could easily you know go off at a tangent about obscure industrial records for you know for a whole episode and and you tim similarly could probably talk about things that i'm not particularly interested in so this is you know when we talk on this podcast we're trying to find the common ground i could talk now about the genius of metal militia on this record as being a very seminal influential thrash track but it would mean nothing to you tim so i'm guessing so we won't so we'll move on but metallica's kill them all came out this year a fantastic debut album van morrison's inarticulate speech of the heart is probably a little bit more relevant in the sense that we but i love this record um this for this for me is a real purple patch for van which started with into the music obviously reaching an absolute peak on common one which i think we talked about in the very first episode we recorded if i'm not wrong um as being one of our absolute if not our favorite van record and inarticulate speech of the heart is very much coming in the slipstream of that record isn't it's a bitch it's a bit more orchestral it's a bit more lush a bit more cheesy in the best possible way there's lots of saxophone he sort
Speaker 2of went through a period didn't he after come i mean common one i think is magnificent although it's interesting if ever you read any books on van morrison generally it's um one sentence which ends with pretentious trash you know this is an album that is not
Speaker 1beloved we and we talked about them when we talked about this record that we don't i mean we just don't get it do we we don't understand why this record is not held up as one of the greatest records of all time and i think in
Speaker 2the slipstream of common when he produced a series of really good albums that were perhaps that spiritual element of common one but with a more new age texture i think to the production yes
Speaker 1yeah a little bit more they've dated a little bit more than that but i think it's a really good album more in their sound the sonics i think than common one but tracks like rave on john dunn i mean water that's that's that's top tier van isn't it there's
Speaker 2some great stuff and i think he carried on in this vein really until sort of you know no method no guru no teacher definitely and probably slightly after i mean you know there's aspects of it on avalon sunset as well in 1989 and after that point he sort of abandons this quest it's almost it's entirely the 1980s actually that particular side of his um output you know people talk a lot
Speaker 1about the the you know the early early early early early records the astral weeks the moon dance but for me um this is right up there this whole period remarkably consistent if not particularly you know we talked about obis costello trying lots of different things i don't think van was trying different things everything is almost like an aspect of the same thing isn't it but but fantastic you know spiritual soul uh spiritual soul music just a very quick mention to omd's album this year dazzle ships which is without question the most experimental album the most experimental album of all time they ever made and they paid the price for it commercially their their commercial fortunes dropped off a cliff with this record um having come off the back of architectural morality dazzle ships is a very very strange this is a this sort of album that should have been made by one of the german uh you know electronic bands like cluster or someone like that but it was a big british pop act pop act that made this record very strange record as much about sound design and the peter saville design sleeve as it is about you know pop songs so a very brave uh you know we love follies on this show don't we we love those kind of like willful follies this commercial suicide this i suppose was omd's version of that although they kind of pulled it right back with the next record uh so this wasn't a career ender in that sense but it's a very very noble very experimental album by a band that were at the time until that point frequently having top 10 singles so um i i admire this record perhaps more than i love it perhaps more than i love it but i love the fact that it's in there it's in their catalog i
Speaker 2like it it's one of those albums that i think means you go back to the band you know in some ways i think it's an essential part of their catalog and their story and um and i think it would have kind of survived because i think as a kind of electro pop artifact from you know 1983 by british band it's a fascinating album that i think had the band done nothing after this we'd still be dipping into it as a curio from
Speaker 1that period yeah i mean it's one thing i'm always keen to emphasize i i love looking at um catalogs as a kind of holistic thing you know this is a whole you know trajectory of someone's career isn't it and isn't it fantastic that an album like dazzle ships exists in that catalog you know and as we mentioned earlier elvis costello is probably another exponent of this idea that every album has a has a kind of place and a reason to exist in the catalog and it doesn't matter if one record was more experimental and didn't sell or if another record was very commercial and didn't sell or was very commercial and did sell they all become part of this fascinating continuum of work which are all aspects of the same same person or the same band shriek back's care i love this record um now shriek back was was um barry andrews of who left xtc and formed this band shriek back and care is their debut record and uh it's a very very unique sound on this record almost like a weird kind of um intimate electro funk they're almost impressions of songs are you familiar with this record tim yes you know what i mean when
Speaker 2i say that well it's kind of it's electro funk goth if that makes sense to you because there's a kind of dark brooding quality there's a proto goth element that i think that the reformed shriek back have really tapped into as well um you know there's something of that kind of talking heads element in the rhythms there's something of that new york club scene in there that obviously new order we're drawing from as well but the pieces tend to linger and they tend to be darker i think yeah a little
Speaker 1bit of a certain ratio thing this kind of very spectral spectral quality it's hard to sort of sort of you know hold on to the songs but the sound worlds when you're in them are very compelling and fascinating paul simon's hearts and bones uh june i'm just going through other records here on the list june taber's abyssinians talking heads speaking in tongues um do you want to talk about this record a little bit tim you said here you want to talk about
Speaker 2it so no i think i probably put an asterisk next to it saying i know about it and i like i mean it's probably my favorite talking heads album actually although i don't think it's as radical as what came before it there's just a really nice feel it's got quite a thin sound which i think goes against it and it's not as um gripping in some ways as fear of music or remain in light but i just think it has a lightness of touch and some fantastic material so it's been the talking heads album that perhaps i've played more than any other just on a level of personal enjoyment alone so we've mentioned
Speaker 1tears of his we mentioned the the water boys is the other album that came out this year with their first album mike scott one of my favorite bands of all time this is um certainly no by no stretch of the imagination the most important or best water boys album it's essentially a mike scott solo album where he's just using drum loops to essentially it's a very stream of consciousness approach to writing music in much the same way that van morrison uh would write his music and i think he was a big influence on mike scott but you can see the seeds in what is going to come some of the the greatest records of the 80s for me were to come from the water boys pagan place and fisherman's blues particularly and the same is also true of the next on this the wolfgang press the burden of meals a quintessential 4ad band this first album is very strange it's a very strange album it's a very strange album it's a very different to anything else they ever did it's very much in thrall to perhaps too much to public image metal box it's almost like a pastiche of metal box in places but again you can see the seeds of what they're going to become something um far more unique um wolfgang press were almost like the the 4ad's equivalents of talking heads weren't this strange kind of but a very british version the strange kind of version of punk avant-garde funky rhythms electronic music and a very arch uh arch kind of vocal approach i know you've always admired them too tim maybe you haven't been as much of a fan of them as i have but but you certainly have to admire them don't they were very unique in in their time yeah very
Speaker 2much so and i think one of the things that they share with street back is that they're combining dance music with something quite dark emotionally and in the case of wolfgang press there's always something slightly unhinged and dangerous as well you hear in the vocal delivery in particular and i've i can see the public image influence quite strongly but i can also see that they were probably slightly influenced by nick cave and birthday party in the very early period of the band and i sort of like wolfgang press when they really create their own sonic universe towards the late 80s where they're fusing this darkness with a kind of up dance culture and i think they do it in a really interesting way towards the end of the decade you know kansas i remember being a fantastic single kansas
Speaker 1is one of the one of the great singles of the 80s i mean there's none of that dance sensibility in this first record none of it at all it is very fragmented broken uh garage drum beats howling almost like willfully ugly in places um they've not embraced that kind of dance floor friendliness yet at all and in fact it will be in a few more albums where that really reaches a peak on albums like birdwood cage and queer which i think that the two classic late 80s wolfgang press albums but it's fascinating to see where you know where they start here and also one of the very very first 4ad releases as well we're in the very very early years of 4ad well it's
Speaker 2a bit like dead can dance's debut for 4ad isn't it you you can hear a logical progression in the first dead can dance album you can hear that they've come out of joy and sorrow and they've come out of the very very early years of 4ad and there's a strong influence there but by the second album they are absolutely cut adrift from any obvious influences and even from rock culture you know and i think with wolfgang press by an album or two ahead of this you you recognize the chaos and perhaps the the intensity but very little
Speaker 1else yeah and the same with cocteau's as we as we said earlier you know again their first album if it had just been that one album that they released and they'd never done anything else we would have to think of them as a kind of you know suzy and the banshees impersonator band who made a kind of quirky one-off record for an indie label but of course when you now look with the with the benefit of hindsight you can see this you can hear i should say the seeds of something more unique that will come increasingly to the fore until they become completely their own thing and the same is true if you say if dead can dance and the same is also true if the wolfgang press and interesting that all those bands were kind of making their debut records around i think dead can dance is the following year but it's a very very watershed kind of moment in that label in terms of signing these bands that will go on certainly for the 80s to define the very aesthetic of 4ad something that actually i think ivo probably became quite frustrated in a way and he ended up signing bands like the pixies and throwing music to try and get away from that preconception that people have a 4ad and
Speaker 2and i think that was reinforced by the this mortal coil albums that ivo put together absolutely by the artists he chose to sort of work on those albums but of course as we said earlier you know momus the happy family which was a kind of joseph k offshoot with momus singing and writing the lyrics i think wasn't it and that was a very un 4ad 4ad band and it would have been fascinating to know had they carried on would they have developed in the way that bands like wolfgang press dead can dance copter twins did into something quite spectral something quite different
Speaker 1so you've got one one more major category on this listing which is mainstream now i'm very curious about this because one of the albums you've got in this category i think could easily been something we talked about alongside tears for fears the the abc which is the eurythmics album touch what is it that makes this mainstream to you i
Speaker 2think annie lennox was very much the quintessential pop star of the era in some way and i think it's a very important part of the album i think it's a very she was almost the adele of her era and i think that that music communicated to a much much wider audience even though the eurythmics started off as a slightly more left field pop band and you know i really like their debut album in the garden i think it's pretty good and sweet dreams has some some fantastic stuff on it as well um i think they connected with a mass public in a way that some of the other artists didn't they weren't quite as um arch they weren't quite as much as the other artists they weren't quite as much as the other artists they weren't quite as obviously influenced perhaps by the whole post-punk mentality that some of the other pop artists we were talking about were
Speaker 1right although i'm not sure that's true i think i think they probably were as you say that first album um is it called in the garden it's it's definitely got quite yeah it's definitely got quite a lot but but i understand what you mean because there's something about the eurythmics that she is a pop star in a way that matt johnson andy mccluskey kurt smith and ronald oswalt would never be could never be pop star she had she naturally had that kind of pop star charisma of a madonna um who who was another artist that released i think her debut album this year madonna you have you have on the list here and i think you're right i think annie lennox did have that natural mainstream pop appeal duran duran seven and the ragged tiger i never i never got duran duran i never got them a few good songs i can hear over the years but i never quite i never quite believed them did you one of
Speaker 2those bands that i always find quite entertaining good at what they did but never really hit home for me on any kind of emotional level nothing i could ever get um too enthusiastic or excited about but they they always seem quite likable yeah that i think that's
Speaker 1the way i feel about it too it's funny we were talking about omd and about how the fact that we love the fact that there's an album like dazzle ships in their discography discography discography discography i think if duran duran had ever done something like that i would maybe believe them a little
Speaker 2bit more i was always just amused by the title seven and the ragged tiger really i think as much as anything else i i loved that title as it was preposterous and um i think it was joe brown used to sing it on the woolworths christmas advert 1983 where he was talking about all the albums you could buy from woolworths and in his inimitable style went seven and the ragged tiger
Speaker 1i do like so again i do like some of their songs i quite like the notorious album skin trade is a great song but i never completely was able to fall for them there was always something about them
Speaker 2that i just say well i think it was well because i think from an image point of view they sort of embraced the opulence of the worst excesses of thatcher era they were the antithesis of billy bragg you know i quite like rio i think it's got some pretty decent pieces on it but the way in if you think of the video for rio and then you think of billy bragg probably standing outside of the dartford tunnel singing they're very different images yeah i quite like this idea of that being the split of the 80s at that point yeah
Speaker 1or more or morrissey standing outside the working hands club in the salford yeah it's uh now talking of which the last category you have here is nothing to do with albums we are this is the album years but tim has elected this year because it's such a great year for singles to have an additional addendum to this podcast which is singles of note now We've already talked about some of them, Pills and Soap by Elvis Costello, Mama by Genesis, Shipbuilding by Robert White. But also, and we just mentioned them there, the Smiths released their first two singles this year, at least one of which for me is a bona fide masterpiece, This Charming Man. Yeah. I mean, my favourite anecdote about the Smiths, and I love the Smiths, one of the most important groups to me growing up, the Smiths. My favourite thing about the Smiths is that their entire career took place in the time between, yes, making 90125 and making the follow-up Big Generator. Their entire career, something like 15 classic singles, four classic albums, two amazing compilations full of, you know, great B-sides and session tracks. And then they broke up. And I love that about them. It's just this idea that they pretty much changed the face of, you know, certainly alternative music. Mm-hmm. In an incredibly short period of time, when a lot of bands were getting into that mindset, Duran Duran, similarly so, but not only, I think it was more, pretty much the norm. A lot of bands were getting into that mindset that they would fly off to the Bahamas or Compass Point Studios and spend three years snorting cocaine and writing and recording eight songs, each one of which would be released as a single with a three quarters of a million dollar video, you know, attached to it. And the Smiths were the very end. They were the antithesis of that in every respect, weren't they? Even down to the very, very sort of colloquial, you know, being very attached to the sound of Manchester, the sound of the north of England. Morrissey almost being like the anti-pop star. And yet, in some ways, ironically becoming a massive pop star almost despite that. Now, you actually grew up in the north of Tim, so I'm guessing it was probably even more relevant to you or even more of a reference. Or a revelation to you that a band like the Smiths could exist and invade the pop charts, you know, be on top of the pops. Yes. How strange was that?
Speaker 2I mean, the Smiths are odd because it would be going too far to say that they did what the Beatles did in the sense that they revolutionised music for a certain period in a very short time, a short space of time. Because I think, obviously, the Beatles travelled a far greater distance. But actually, there's something in it that they started in a similar way. If you listen to the very early Beatles, who were very much a sort of stripped-down, four-piece guitar band, the Smiths were as well. It was a very stripped-down guitar band on the early singles. And they sort of injected the same kind of raw excitement that you got with some of those early 60s Merseybeat singles. And then, of course, progressed and became certainly more experimental. But I think that, you know, aspect on the debut album, 1984. You know, you can already hear the band stretching out emotionally and different influences coming through. There's certain folk influences. And they, lyrically, I mean, I was always drawn to the humour in Morrissey's work. And also the fact that he was clearly well-versed in the kitchen sink films of the late 50s, early 60s, which I was a massive fan of. So it was quite nice that some of my interests were being reflected by an artist of the time. And as you say, it was the fact that it was. It was so different from what was surrounding it that gained attention. And I think we've always said this, you know, during the time of supposed punk dominance, this was also the era that War of the Worlds was enormous. And so during the time of supposed Duran Duran dominance, this was the time where the Smiths break through. That, you know, you always have this action and reaction, I suppose.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, Meet His Murder was a number one record. You know, I mean, that that's an incredible, at least in the UK, that's an incredible thing for me. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, I love the UK so much is that records like that could get to number one. Amazingly, Laurie Anderson's Oh, Superman could get to number two in the charts. I love that about. And, you know, the Smiths is a great example of one of those examples where a real misfit, someone that should never be a pop star, that breaks all the rules. Everything about him was real. Wrong in inverted commas gets together with a very accomplished musician and something magical happens. There's some alchemy there. Something incredible happens. And in a very short space of time, they kind of burn themselves out because they're so different that it's not going to last. It's not going to last. And I think that, again, is where the Lennon McCartney analogy is not completely inappropriate. There is something here of that, that it was almost doomed to fail. It was doomed to implode at some point. Because they are such opposites in the sense. But when they are getting it right for this short period of time, they are making something immortal. I love those early Smiths singles. I mean, How Soon Is Now is on one of the very, very early singles. So there's sophistication right from the very beginning. But yes, you're right. It'd be really interesting to have seen where they might have gone after Strange Ways Here We Come, which was obviously a record which was embracing much more use of keyboards and electronics and becoming more lush and sophisticated in the production. Fascinating to see, you know, where the Smiths might have gone after that. But anyway, this first year we have the seminal debut single, Hand in Glove, and This Charming Man, which I think is one of their great singles. Also this year we have one of the most famous songs of the entire era by Stealth, because it wasn't a big hit. Song to the Siren by This Mortal Coil. Another quintessential 4AD song with the 4AD sound absolutely shot through and through. It's become such an influential song, hasn't it? You know, without having been much of a hit at the time, I think, you know, cropping up in movies every left, right and centre, but also being covered by so many divas over the years.
Speaker 2Sorry, I was going to say, you can hear its influence on the likes of Sigur Rós as well, that whole post-rock movement, the weightlessness, the grace. It was a beautiful piece of music, and in some ways you could argue this was where the Cocteau Twins developed their sound. You know, this is This Mortal Coil. And it's under Ivo's direction. But if you listen to, as we said before, Head Over Heels is a transitional album. It still has a strong element of Suzie and the Banshees and the post-punk guitar music that the band had evolved from. This has none of it. And in some ways, perhaps this was the starting point for the Cocteau Twins that we know and love, that they learned a great deal from it. Although, interesting fact about Song to the Siren, because I think Tim Buckley originally played it on. The Monkees TV programme, and there's a gorgeous, very stripped-down acoustic guitar version of it. It eventually ends up on the album Star Sailor in 1970. But the first ever released version was by Pat Boone. No way! Yeah.
Speaker 1I did not know that.
Speaker 21969. Pat Boone does a version. Because the version with Tim Buckley, Tim Buckley's 1968 version of The Monkees Show was eventually released, but it wasn't released at the time.
Speaker 1That's fascinating. I'll have to go and listen to that. I mean, obviously, it is a. It is a Tim Buckley composition, but it's one of those songs that is the definitive version is the cover. In much the same way that Nothing Compares to You, the Prince song, the definitive version is the Sinead O'Connor version. The This Mortal Coil version of Song to the Siren is the one that everyone knew, and most people fell in love with the song. And that is the version that people reference when they cover it. Although the Tim Buckley version is really good, but the This Mortal Coil version just takes it. To another level, doesn't it? It just takes it into the stratosphere. It's absolutely sublime, divine, one of the most beautiful three-minute pieces of music ever made. And again, it has been so influential over the years. As you say, certainly with post-rock, I think you're absolutely right there. This is in some ways where kind of shoegazer music comes from, where post-rock music comes from. It all starts with Song to the Siren, This Mortal Coil. So, yeah, so a great single. And the final single. The final single you have on your list, Tim. David Silvian and Ryuchu Sakamoto's Forbidden Colours, which is the theme to the Bowie movie, Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence, isn't it? But it's a wonderful, wonderful single as well.
Speaker 2Yeah, gorgeous, sweeping single. And once more, you can kind of hear that along with Ghosts, that's the turning point that leads to where Silvian's solo career is going to go, with the likes of Secrets of the Beehive in particular. And in some ways, I suppose, we were talking about 1983 as being the year where things, things are no longer quite as easily categorised or quite as obvious. And in this, you can almost hear that sweeping melancholy of 60s soundtracks, you know, John Barry, for sure, but also Scott Walker, some of his albums from that period, and even Dusty Springfield. You know, there's almost a kind of natural reclaiming of aspects of music that's sort of been dropped for a decade almost. And I think that is what is peculiar about 1983, that a lot of bands are suddenly embracing pop, embracing melody, embracing excess in a way that's less self-conscious than it was even a year earlier.
Speaker 1Well, and having big string arrangements, big orchestral arrangements. Again, maybe that's the Trevor Horn thing, because he kind of brought, I mean, I might be wrong, I'd have to look at the history books, but I'm guessing that a lot of that orchestration in pop came back with albums like The Lexicon, Love, ABC, which had come out the previous year. So it's almost like it's OK to have big orchestral textures on your on your. pop records again now which possibly hadn't been hadn't been the case through through the whole punk obviously through the whole punk and post-punk era so tim we should wrap up having done two long episodes on 1983 we come to the crux of the matter what is your favorite album of 1983 and what album do you think has been the most influential over the years well as we said
Speaker 2i mean you know that as a single you know you can hear songs the siren in julie cruz and david lynch's work you know angelo badlamenti and of course cigaros post rock and so on i'm gonna go for influential i think possibly new order because i think they really anticipate what happens by the end of the decade in the early part of the 90s with that fusion of indie sensibility and dance music in terms of the album that i most like i'm probably going to surprise you go on i'm going to go with tom wait swordfish trombones it's a fantastic record it's a wonderful record one of the things we didn't say about it relating again to this era of singles and hits is that it's a very strange very uncompromising album but of course it also had a hit in the form of in the neighborhood so in some ways you know like albums like 90125 with it was propelled by a single but for me i think it's the range of that album really that it does go from these very poignant piano ballads like jonsberg illinois and tracks like soldiers things which are heartbreaking to some really quite brittle brutal rhythmic assaults on the senses and i just think that it it covers a lot of ground in its um 38 minutes yeah don't
Speaker 1forget dave the butcher uh yes as well queasy listening at his best okay so that's great i think anyone would find it very difficult to argue with your with your idea that new order is probably the most influential this year the idea that a band that had come from um punk post-punk alternative new wave background embracing the dance floor and making one of the seminal dance tracks of the band is so visionary and so forward-looking that it kind of would leave everything else in everything else this year in the shade in that respect so i'm going to agree with you on that um and also i think you're right when you say songs the siren has been quite the smiths i think had an influence for a time although perhaps that influence has waned slightly over the years i mean if you think of bands like the strokes and the libertines who were big for a time the stone roses it's hard to imagine the stone roses existing without the smiths but people don't talk about those bands perhaps as much as they do but i think it's a good idea to have a band that's much now as they did 10 20 30 years ago so perhaps the influence of the smiths was very prevalent for a time yeah arctic
Speaker 2monkeys probably as well i guess arctic
Speaker 1monkeys yeah absolutely yeah i think again very hard to imagine the arctic monkeys existing without the the smiths being the precedent in terms of my favorite because i'm a bit old-fashioned this year i find myself going for ben watts north marine drive pink floyd's the final cut um and the xtc album from this year mama probably the three i come back to along with swordfish trombones the albums i come back to the most and neither of them also none of them are albums you could say are particularly innovative or forward-looking but in terms of just albums i enjoy those are the three those that all the four if you include they'd certainly be
Speaker 2there i mean the final cut was very much a close run thing for me and the ben watt and virginia rastley albums from this year are all-time favorites for me so it's quite a good album i think it's a good album i think it's a good album i think it's number of albums this year that i still hold dear it was a difficult choice as always yeah and the
Speaker 1virginia rastley again is another album that i would i think for me it's that between that and the ben watt album they feel somehow to occupy the same space in my mind i just have a slight preference for for the ben album so there we are 1983 in two extended episodes uh as we said at the beginning of this particular half of the episode we're finding it very hard with our diarrhea to to make anything less than the tales from topographic ocean uh when we come to some of these years that we're most passionate about tim i think we should pick a year next that we don't feel there's much because sometimes that can be interesting too it can't you know to pick an out a pick a year where perhaps we're going to struggle to find albums we want to talk about so what would you nominate as the next year for example i
Speaker 2was going to nominate 1995 but i can think of a lot of albums already that i consider quite important i thought that was quite an transitional year for older and newer artists in the way that late 70s early 80s was but we could do another year if you feel that that's going to yield too much
Speaker 1no no let's go with let's let's go with your instinct let's go with 1995 i off the top of my head i can't think of any albums from 1995 maybe you're right maybe there's a lot of music that i'm that i'm forgetting from that year
Speaker 2you're going to be dazzled by it you're going to be as deeply dazzled as you were in 1983 by bill since chimera which we didn't talk about which i always thought was one of his better albums
Speaker 1well you didn't put it on
Speaker 2the list did you oh i've missed it i
Speaker 1love that record well it's kind of a mini album isn't it it's uh i love chimera i love chimera i love all bill's music from this era i love it it's my
Speaker 2favorite era of bill good god we missed out kianis garzi by philip glass which is one of my favorite philip
Speaker 1glass releases oh my god well we have talked a lot about philip glass or in fact if i'm if i'm not wrong we picked iron stun on the beach as our favorite album from we did indeed whatever with 1978
Speaker 2you could argue that kianis garzi and apollo were also very influential on film soundtrack music if not pop music you could hear the influence of those two albums for decades afterwards i would say you
Speaker 1could argue and you have argued and i would concur let's call it a day there lest we start dredging up other albums we've forgotten to mention i think we've done a pretty good a pretty good job of covering a whole year what do you think i would of the circumstances capital thank you very much for listening we will be back uh it sounds like we'll be back with 1995 at some point who knows when yeah who knows when but thank you very much for listening and it's goodbye from me and it's goodbye
Speaker 2from tim bye-bye you
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