#218: Website Teardown | How to Build B2B Landing Pages That Actually Convert with Tas Bober, Founder of The Scroll Lab, Gabi Sellam, Conversion Specialist at Fiverr, and Will Hoekenga, Founder of Six Words Studio

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Their content engineering platform helps you surface your highest value opportunities in AI search. Then shows you how to actually take action on them. Not just C dashboards, not just get another recommendation or SEO report, but actually go out and execute. And this is the topic that everyone is being asked to get smarter about right now, AI search and SEO. If you care about this topic, then you want to go and check out Aeroops. They're built for you. It's aeroops.com/exit5. You can learn more about Aeroops and what they're doing in the AI and SEO space. That's aeroops.com/exit5. You're listening to B2B Marketing with me, Dave Gerhard. [Music] So welcome to the ultimate roast of landing pages. I'm very excited. All right, so we have three awesome speakers. We have Gabby Solom. She is a conversion specialist at Fiverr. And we have TAS Bober who if you are anywhere near the Ex-April community you know. And then we also have Will Hokang-Gal who is the founder of Sixword Studio and an awesome copywriter. So I'm just going to bring them on stage without any further ado. Welcome landing page team. Hi. We're here. How are we feeling? Amazing. Gabby, congratulations on your 10. Yo, I guess Dan's Raudi behavior and the previous roast kind of got him kicked out real quick. Yeah, he's fired and we automatically have Gabby. Awesome. Well, super excited to have all of you guys here. Here's how it's going to run today. We're going to do a brief presentation. We are going to learn from Gabby about her experience with landing pages at Fiverr. It's a great presentation, full of data and little tip. TAS and Will are also going to add their own lessons there. And then we're going to get into what you're here for. The roast. I will share my screen. I will drive. TAS for fire emojis is what we got here. So we're going to have fun. All right, who's ready? You guys ready? Okay, thank you, Daniel, for this great info. Hi, everybody. I'm very excited to kicking this session on landing page. And basically, I prepared those slides based on my experience at Fiverr. So let's move on to the next slide. The agenda. So we'll start with a baseline and go over best practices in creating high converting landing page. I brought you examples of the examples from Fiverr and we're wrapping this presentation with two unknowns on the landing page optimization. So let's start the first thing that I want to go over. Okay, let's start with the definition. Basically, a landing page. It is the destination. A visitor is going to reach after clicking on an ad, an email or any of early and it's conversion based. You have one goal. It's either direct purchase or lead generation, but you need to be focused on this main goal. Whether landing page is not, first of all, it's not a homepage. We have a lot of similarities because, of course, a homepage also is conversion based, but homepage is mainly the main entry point of the website. So it's going to gather a lot of intents and hit the heik to many other places in your website. And also, it's not a blog post because, you know, the primary goal of a blog post is information. So let's talk about intent. This is very dear to my heart. It's basically the starting point of any campaign. I want to separate what is high intent and low intent. So high intent is basically when someone a user is actively searching for something, so you can think of a brand and then it's going to be direct channel. You are searching for it or it's going to be on Google. Of course, if you're clicking on an ad or an organic reset, you're typing a keyword. Your intent is very hot. On the other side of the umbrella, we have what we call low intent. And this is basically when you're exposed to a content and you decide to check it out. So typically on social media, of course, when you're scrolling down and you see that you're targeted on ads, but it can also be done on a foot partner ships or influencers and keep this in mind because when we'll go over the examples, this is going to come back. Okay, so I have five important things that I would like to go over and the first one is a header because this is the first thing that you're supposed to see when you land on the page. So of course, you want to have something that is very in my opinion simple and straightforward, but also conveying a value proposition. And for me, one thing that is very important when I'm working with my copywriter, it's always you know, explaining that the users didn't land a firm magic on this page. He came from somewhere. There's an entry point and there's a copy in this entry point. So you want to ensure that there's continuity in the copy that you're creating and you'll find some connection between the entry point copy and the main header. Then moving on to design. So some basic UX design, a principle is that bigger larger elements capture more attention and that's why in general, your header on the top full is bigger. So you want to work on your hierarchy between you know, headlines of headings, paragraphs and having different sizing. When you have images, it's important that it will be supporting your text and not overshadowing it. And I'm stressing this especially for B2B businesses because you can face something that is a bit complex. So you don't want to overwhelm a visitor with something that is too big and really getting over your content. And overall, like you want something that is scalable and we'll look at the landing page that show how you can have something organized with bullet points and that will be readable. Of course, CTA is super important having something that is clear and persuasive. Also, this slide is okay. It was a bit different but all good. So I won't go over everything. What I want you to take is that have only one primary CTA in the top fold. I know that in the past, when we used to talk about landing page, it was really, you know, having something simple, a header, non-avigation one city. I think that now we learn that we can have something a bit more complex. But if you decide to have several two cities on your top fold, make sure that the primary one is more visible. And one thing that I want to add is that a CTA can be a button. But for example, in Fether, we also use search bar because we have so many services. So we understood that for some campaigns, it's better to go for that. And of course, for the generation, it can be a form. Trust element, of course, super important, especially if your brand is not that known. So we work with product, we work with customer success, we look at reviews and every time that we can add testimonials, reviews, badges on the word, we do so. And last but not least, a mobile, not only for SEO purpose, I think that in my perspective, mobile is so important because it's a discovery platform. Now so many brands get to be known through social media email campaigns and it's basically the platform for first impression and first impression always influence the next step in a user funnel. So even if your product is not made to be converted on mobile, it's still important to have a good mobile web version. Okay, so we're going to talk about example and it's a high intent landing page. This is a campaign that we did for a website creation. So a little bit about some context about Fether. Fether is created on e-commerce standard. We sell thousands of services and the way to organize it is through listing pages. So you can see it on the image on your right. This is a listing page for website development services and we use to use those listings as the landing experience for paid acquisition. After doing some research, we understood that it's not the optimal landing experience because it was very overwhelming for users. So we decided to test something to create a landing page and to showcase the story of website creation on Fether because we not only offer website development services but also website design and if I ask you what is the different, you won't know how to explain it. So we have the page and unfortunately because it's not the updated version, I don't have a link to the landing page that I wanted to show you. So you can see on the screen shot here what we created. So the header is turned to top freelancers to create the perfect site. So we switch it. We used to have a copy that is very service oriented and hiring and here we understood that the goal is more important and here the user goal is to create a web. So let's talk about it and make sure that they're in the right place. And of course, a value proposition from Fiverr is to hire top freelancers. So it's also there. And I'm very sorry that I can show you what comes after because we basically created a structure that is cannibal where we explain all the diversity of services with the deliveries. Whether you're looking to get a website on weeks, so you should be hiring this expert or you're looking to get a Shavascript file and you should get this. This was the idea and we got great results from it conversion rate in probably a 15% and the campaign ROI increased by 5.7%. So we started implementing this strategy for other campaigns and something that I want to point out also is that this is not the final version. We constantly optimizing so even if we want to use this one, we know that we can still improve it. How often would you say you make update? It really depends on the campaign. We do let it run sometimes, but every couple of months we check in again and you know say, okay, let's try a different city. Let's change the hero. Let's adapt this. We don't do it on a weekly basis, but yeah, like every couple of months we check in again. Okay, moving on to another example. This is a campaign that we created for five up. So we were targeting here. We are targeting ecommerce professionals that are building or scaling their businesses and the goal for them was to basically fill in a form and right away after they were able to schedule a meeting with the sales team. So a few things about it again here on the top full. We make sure that ecommerce a professional could understand that this is really for them. So your ecommerce project plan executed delivered. We have a clear city that is to book a call. And for this landing page, we can see the form that we use, but it went through some iteration and what we learned from here. And back and forth to weather the calendar should be open or not. And the cell steam was basically at the beginning overflowed with request and not relevant. It's so per request from the cell steam, we decided to close it. And after during a month, we saw that we only got eight meetings, which is not enough and not where we were expecting. So we opened again the calendar and it jumped back to 200 minting books booked. So we're like, OK, it is more relevant for us to have more meetings. But how can we help the cell steam filter in and exclude leads that are not relevant. So we decided to add an entry that is project a description with a limitation in characters. So we would have to be very straightforward with their demand. And this was a win because it helped the cell steam without feedback from them that it was helping them really select and before jumping in on to call in the identified better the needs. So this was a great example of how we collaborated with the oversteer stakeholders and how we were able to better the final the cells final. And the last example that is also a low intent a landing page. It's the content hub. It's fresh out of the oven. We launched it in September now. And the target audience is for B to be marketers. So guys, this is for you. Basically here we created a landing page to provide to show case marketers, also resources that we can offer and how they can integrate a freelancers into their marketing operations. And what is great about here. I think our focus was how can we build trust through content. So we have our annual report on marketing where we extracted data on marketing word and their needs in tap freelancers and how we can help filling the gap. So we have actual real data. And then we have also here that you can check out on the link. We at five, we use five. So we're like, OK, let's talk to our marketing leaders and ask them who are their favorite freelancers to work with. So we have, for example, our CMO Mati that shared his top five freelancers to work with on five or four on the landing page. And this is a great example on how you can leverage, first of all, content creating something unique to build trust with your users. So we're promoting it through influencers partnerships and also a positive and email. So make sure to check it out once you receive it. So let's try to write it up with a list of do's and don'ts. So let's start with the do's first line content with user intent. So it's super important. It's, you know, the starting point of your campaign, whether it's high intent and very ready to purchase or lower intent and still thinking information. Do a bit as regularly. We always optimizing. And even if you don't have enough traffic to test, learn and create new iteration. Do prioritize a clear and compelling header. So it's very important to have something that is, you know, conveying your value proposition, work on your visual hierarchy and ensure that you have something that is professionally built and of course optimize for mobile. Again, this is a discovery channel. So you want to make the best first impression on the don't don't overload with information. This is something that we learned we don't want the users to feel overwhelmed and the first seconds really matter. Don't neglect page load speed. I didn't touch all the technical part of the landing page creation, but it's also super important and a page that is not loading quickly enough is going to affect your bounce rate. Don't forget to use white space effectively. So of course you don't want it to be too overwhelming, but on the other side, you don't want also to feel empty. So you don't want to buy only on one form of engagement. You have several intense. Of course you have the main one that you want to push for on your top full, but then you know think about you know education learning more. And last but not least don't forget to follow up. Talked about landing page. I've talked about the step before, but the step after is as important. So make sure you know that you have a good and body that you have a thank you email that you have a self-phen out that is built. And that's it for me on this spot. Abby really, passing will what would you add here for your views and don't for landing pages. I could just something that really resonated with me that you brought up Gabrielle was connecting the context of where the user came from to the first message they're seeing on the site like as a copywriter. That's something that's always my first question is like how did people get here? What did they see before and I think that's something that often gets lost in the chain of a landing page being created because there's usually multiple people, you know working on it and there's sometimes in silos. So that's just something I always tried to remind people to like really dial this in the experience of what they clicked on where they came from and the first thing they're seeing and how aligned are those messages. And then people are probably sick of me saying this because I talk about it so much, but I will tell you in a promo video, which is web accessibility guidelines. Just so you know they're not guidelines, they're ruled because I got fined for that. And so it was something simple like having read or having black text on a red background. And so I didn't think it was a big deal. Obviously at the time I'm like hashtag marketing 88 doesn't care. So if you're always confused or overwhelmed with design choices always go for the simplest one because the point of the pages to enable people to consume it and they can't consume it if it's a jarring to look at so don't over design. Just make sure that it's minimalistic and you're getting the information across. That's a good point. I think we all want to avoid getting getting fined here. We had a couple of questions just before we get into the roast. I think Sarah had one about your first slide Gabby about like high intent for versus low intent. She said would ABM with demand base. For example, be a combo of those because it serves ads to people based on their high intent, but we also show display ads. What do you guys think about that? I think it really depends on the campaign. I mean, I would assume that it's towards lower intent, but it really depends on the context. Okay, I'm going to go on just the tiniest right, which is. People they're here for. Can I roast ABM platform? Okay. I've used many and like what is high intent? I guess that's like the biggest question because the same account varying stages, a larger the account varying stages. It's hard to be like this account has high intent. So I don't know what that is, but like I don't know if like intent can necessarily be matched in an ABM campaign. So you kind of have to look at it almost as like relevancy for that specific company, but they're essentially you have to think about the information that they're collecting because obviously you're talking about it from a B2B context, which I have. Gabby was talking about e-commerce stuff. Like I don't know anything about e-commerce don't ask me, but I can talk about B2B landing pages, which is like they're collecting a specific set of information. And your job is to provide that information at varying stages, right? They're going to get there whenever they're going to get there. And I think worrying too much about what their next move is like. Oh my gosh, okay, they go they visited this page. What's the page they're going to do next? Like there's a set of activities that they're going to go through. So they want to understand the product how it helps their specific company. They want to understand pricing. They want to understand what the sales processes like. So you just create these pages that kind of. gather all that information up for them and then you can make it ABM friendly by ensuring that there's stuff that's relevant to them But like I think it's hard when it's like well ABM it could be top of fun or it could be bottom But I'm like they would much rather have a page that isn't necessarily like welcome Wells Fargo Thank you Thank you for visiting our page rather than that It's like and also marketers like don't have time to create a landing page for like every single company There is on the face of the earth that's on there like ABM list which happens to be 200 companies or whatever So my suggestion is to create like five or six core landing pages that you can send any varying number of companies to They choose the intent you don't have to worry about it because you have information to supply Um that matches that intent that was my rant but anyway, I don't know if I that answer the question But I think intent varies by Company as well and the larger the company the worse it is so instead of trying to create pages for each part of that company specific journey just create the pages for the journey And no matter who the companies are they can go and visit and gather that information in order to make the business case To consider you like that create for the journey not the company going on the journey Yeah, um one more question and then I promise we're going to get into the road So Anna had a question dynamic content campaign landing pages Are they worth it using tags for personalization? What do you guys think? We do use dynamic content but again, it's because of it's our business We offer so many services and we have freelancers and every freelancer have a different skill set So we do use you know content, you know like dynamic content showcasing our supply the freelancers Also the skill set So it depends I think it depends first of all of the scale and how much you're targeting There's some things to take into account for our businesses it matches because we have so many Things to take into account so many targeting so many services that we had to implement dynamic content So it depends on your business and how big the need is would say All right, should we roast some pages? Let's roast some pages. I'm very excited about this So we pulled up a couple of pages. I'm going to share my screen All right, there we go. We can see it So first up this was submitted by Eden Reed company is VC3 and they sell managed IT services to municipal and business leaders So this is the landing page that we have again, we don't have the intent we don't have The keywords or search pages or anything like that. So yeah, I'll just do about I'll just do like a quick scan You guys make some some quick notes and then I will go back up for the roast Think a lot of words the text is standing out to everybody I mean, there's a lot of it You have a bunch of different CTAs All right, initial reactions guys and then just tell me to drive where you want me to go if there's another section Let me know Danielle, can you read what the little live chat message says in the bottom right? It says I'm here to make it easier for you to find what you're looking for Okay Yeah, I mean, I think someone pointed out in the comments, but Multiple competing CTAs right off the top stood out to me especially when like sometimes you can see that someone has a good reason for doing a secondary CTA but The Y VC3 when I see that I'm kind of like isn't that what the page is going to tell me like you brought them here Why do you want them to go to another page and then the the live chat message like do you need help finding anything is almost like a signal of It's going to be really hard for you to find what you're looking for on this page. So there's just like a lot of distractions. I'm feeling right away Yeah, so the first thing is Yeah, I don't know what the source is right so it could be something else I will say if this is coming from like a specific campaign like a pre-campaign or even an email campaign It would be better not to take them to the main website and I will beat this drum until the day I die Because I'm dramatic, but I will not die for landing pages, but you know what I mean So I think the biggest thing is and the reason why I always suggest create another page and everyone's gonna be like yeah I'll create a task with what resources will get to that but like You want to create a specific page because the problem is the data becomes muddled right everyone and their brother Can access this page on the internet? So if someone's coming here and it could be like some internal stakeholder it could be a customer right someone who's already customer It could be a prospective client Even if you have a ton of traffic here of coming from the campaign coming from organic coming from direct The problem is that you're going to make decisions based on the wrong information because your data is going to be Kind of skewed So that's the the first thing is if you want to truly test How will any pages performing just make it an isolated experience and don't give them too many distractions or exit points To Will's point about the chat I used to use drift at my last couple of companies and what we would do is either put A drift a specific playbook on these like high intent pages that was very specific and relevant to the content on there We would also either like just exclude the script from these pages if we didn't want it to be distraction or that specific content And we would only allow it to trigger After they were on the page For a certain amount of time or perhaps hit a certain amount of scroll depth on the page as well So that's something to consider because what happens is I'm in the middle of reading your headline and this pop-up happens on the side And we are in the like Dory generation or whatever where it's like Oh, what's that where my parents like you know, everyone's just so distracted that you just don't want to like do that So I have a lot more tips, but that's where I'm going to start one quick piece of context. They will add from submission So I said this is a key vertical focus and primary service offered with Google and display ads driving to this page Just you guys know I think For me on the top fold, I mean overall like the chat said it's it's content food There's a lot of content when I'm looking at it. I feel like the header It's an addition of words But it's not actually conveying the value of the service and when I'm looking at the sub heading sub heading be ready to pass your cmmc audit Feel like explained much better what I Lendon on so I would have something much simpler as a header and switch it Also, it's on four lines the the header. I would always limited to three lines because it's taking too much space So it's even a bit overwhelming like this addition of word So yeah, I think I would I mean again like it is high intent from what I understand like they saying that it's high demand So I would simplify the landing by Reducing the header to three lines and having something that is much more straightforward And focusing on one of the service if it's cmmc compliance just focusing on this and not adding all the other services You can explain it later on your page, but it doesn't have to be like everything doesn't have to be on the main header Yeah, all right, so Here's what we'll do. Let's do one thing one quick thing that you would change about this to help it Be better and then rate on a scale of one to ten and I want you guys to do it in the chat reminder ten is gold standard We love it amazing don't change it one is please take this off the internet right now And yeah, let's go all right will you first? Yeah, I think there was like a three step process section and I saw a lot of comments about that and the chat is set up to me too And they're trying to show how they make this Getting certified for compliance with the DOD so you can keep getting contracts How they make the process simple, but instead they're making it seem like working with them is going to be hell Because like there's just so much here And so I think instead they should focus the like the feeling of problem on the actual compliance and how difficult it is But show like how you simplify it and make it easier and I feel like it's doing the opposite right now So that would be one of the first key things I'd work on But yeah, skill one to ten I'm going to say like three and a half All right three and a half Chat see next Yeah, I was going to say three and I'll tell you why one I don't consider the salining page so like That's number one, but number two yes, there is a lot of content on the page Which isn't always the worst problem to have because there are some companies who struggle to even have a little bit of content So I'll give you a little bit of that so your biggest issue is going to be like killing your darlings right you want to say so much Because you think that everything's important. This is going to be a prioritization exercise for you more than a like CRO type exercise You're going to have to pair this down quite significantly because If it's someone who's overwhelmed with this problem, you're overwhelming them a little bit more Now the other thing is which I'll give you brownie points for is that I didn't have to travel to many other pages to understand what you will offer and what you are giving them so that's the part that's going to give me a three where I understand It's a service-based company. You're going to do a gap analysis and you're going to do you're going to help me pass this audit and get more contracts Right, so I'll give you some points that I don't want it to be like super it's four flame emojis not five, but you know, so Just making sure like, okay, you have some of the right components. There are some missing. Like, okay, if this is high demand and you do have high demand, there's no like social proof on the page anywhere that says that you've helped someone do it in xyz time. Your simple your simple steps can be much smaller for sure, but I think some of those components are missing. And so I think that that's kind of where you need to focus is just cutting a lot of that copy down and landing page. I say no nav or anchored nav. So a nav, if you have a lot of information to give, have it to where they can jump down to varying spots on the page. It will also give you heat map data on what they care about the most. And that is actually how I discover that FAQ blocks were the most interacted with blocks on the page is because we launched FAQs on a page and it got like 15% of the clicks, which was insane. I'd never seen that. So that's always something to do. Even if you're reiterating some of the stuff earlier in the page, they don't want to dig. They think they're going to get more direct information about your copy and about what you do in your FAQs. So yeah, that's mine right there. Awesome. All right. Gabby over to you. I think I will give it a four. I think that the content is there. I'm going to repeat what is that said that I think we need to simplify it to reduce to organize it. And I think I would focus me on the top fold and reorganize it having a header that is much more straightforward. He moves the secondary city because I think that if we want to promote the company, it can be also a section that is below that explain, you know, in a few centers, why they're the good fit, but it doesn't have to be there. Awesome. Great. Well, what is the VC3 has been roasted? And now we will move on to the next one. Hey, it's me Dave. Our friends over at customer IO are sponsors of today's episode. They're a really cool company that helps marketers turn first party data into engaging customer experiences across email SMS and push. And they built their platform for marketers who actually care about the craft because marketing is a craft that takes creativity, thought and taste. Right now, everyone thinks they're magically a marketer because they have access to AI. And the result is kind of painful. More robotic emails, more noise, more bleh. AI isn't magic. It's not going to fix bad strategy or write great copy for you magically, but the best teams also aren't ignoring it. They treat AI as infrastructure when it's built the right way. It actually makes marketing feel more human, not less. And that's what customer IO is doing. Their AI handles repetitive work like setup, orchestration and tasks that should be automated so that you can focus on what actually matters. The craft of marketing, the strategy, the creativity. 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Oh, there we go. I'll just scroll down, give you guys a basic view. Mother, smell what you think in the chat. All right, initial takes. Gabby, what do you think? So we're targeting utilities. I think that I struggle to understand the target agents to get it notified. Maybe it's because I don't know the topic enough, but very something about here. Like the header is very short, supposed to be, I think, inspirational. So not concrete. I've been there is a lot of content that I did to read. So I think I have some confusion about the target agents, but overall, I'm seeing the form. And this is simple. I'm seeing the companies, the trusted companies. And I'm seeing education and a clear city case that is. Yeah. I would say overall, it's looking professional. There's a trust element and the education on the top part. Maybe it's because I don't know the topic enough. I think there's something about the targeting and how I can identify the agents. Well, what about you? Yeah, I think this page, it was kind of a struggle to quickly see what the thing is, which I believe it's put some sort of predictive modeling software for global utilities. That's just kind of like buried within that large paragraph immediately under the headline. And I also just think this, having this very large form, right in the hero section, kind of taking up that prime real estate, especially because when you were scrolling through, I kind of felt like some of the product screenshots and stuff they had are things that might be interesting to their ICP given that it's like, you know, you can see interesting little data about the utility polls and stuff like that. So maybe that's something that would be engaging to someone who works in the field and be like, oh, like I would love to be able to see, you know, this kind of information. So I think having something like that up above the fold and maybe having a button that goes to the form instead of like slapping those really long fields up there would be a better way to go above the fold and kind of a high impact test to run on the page. Yeah. All right. Over to you, test, work, flame, emoji. I'm laughing, but well, fun. The comments is hilarious. This acts like me roasting this page when my landing pages on life support. So good. Also, okay. I just shout out to Adam Bloom for recognizing fewer versus less and getting that right. Just the, the, the grammar, peatant in me wanted to point that out. Sorry, that's no, no, no, it's all good. You know what's so interesting to me is that there's literally software for everything. I'm like reading this page and I'm like, what? Okay. It took me a little reading. I do this thing called a three page test, which is how many pages does it take me on average to figure out what a company does and the average is three. So if you're anywhere under three congratulations, it took me to in this case. I will say again, I don't know. You said retargeting and awareness, Daniel, the campaign. Yeah. Here's what they said, a new landing page with new design, sending traffic from paid LinkedIn and Google ads. Campaign is running to target US utilities and driving from awareness and retargeting ads. Okay. Weird because awareness and retargeting should be like almost two different component. Like what you would send someone from a retargeting campaign versus what you would send them from like a first touchpoint awareness campaign of different things. Someone who's in an awareness stage is not going to come here and then fill out this form based on just this information in the hero when they're like, I don't even know where I am. That's like those guys on Tinder who are like, Hey, how are you? Hey, sweetie. You want to get married and you're like, why? You know, and it's like, yeah, you're there for the same goal. Like eventually you'd like to meet someone get married. I mean, I did. I met my husband on Tinder. We got married 10 years ago or we met 10 years ago. But if you straight up said that, I would be like, this is a creep ghost block report. Right. So it's the same concept here where it's like, if it's your first touchpoint, like you can ask them for their most precious leverage in the situation, which is their information. So I much like actually unlike much other landing page people will tell you to always put the form in the bottom unless it is a super, super high intent page where they're saying, I literally want a demo of this product. So I would put that down below. And next to that one, I would lay out the expectation. Someone did call that out. What am I going to get if I fell out this form? Yeah. What's going to happen? And then you don't have to give them the whole sales process. But you can say, you know, one to two steps ahead, like someone will contact you within 24 hours. We'll have a discovery call and then we'll give you a custom demo because I worked at one SaaS company and they will pissed because they thought they were getting a demo from the first call and they felt like people were wasting their time. So if you set the expectations, it also eliminates some of that friction and objection. It's not super clear who you are. It might be like you don't talk about the product until the third line on the subhead. And I don't know if people are actually going to read a paragraph that's literally sitting in like a square box. Like that. So you got to make it a little more succinct. And then it says global utilities trust, Niara, to keep their networks safe from fire floods and more. That actually says a lot more. And then I would say global utility companies because I was like global utilities. It sounds like someone saying like enterprises trust. So when I first ran, I was like, wait, are these utility companies or the utilities? So just something like that. And then there's a lot of like these like the no nav. You're like, great. I'm not going to do a nav because I don't want to distract them. But I'm just going to put a hundred links on the page instead. And so I think that's part where like you have the logos, but I don't see anything else. At least I didn't when I sold out. Do you see anything? Daniel on quotes from any of these? No, they link to case studies. So I'll give you a hot tip, which I do for my clients. I go through all the case studies. I pull out the quotes and I use the quotes because volume always has a larger impact than density. So if you have one case study, you're trying to choose between like having one deep case study on a page or having multiple quotes, do the multiple quotes. People skim before they invest, they need to see like from someone else's mouth, what you help them with. And that you helped more than one person. And in this case, it looks like zero people outside or taking them when just said they're editing live. Oh, oh snap. Yes. I we need this kind of speed. We need this kind of speed and sauce. This is great. This is awesome. I love this. I'm excited. On that note about testimonials, I was clicking around on the site just now a little bit. And like, Nira has great quotes that they could be featuring. There was one that I saw said we eliminated 300 hours of inspection time. Like this seems like a very high impact product that's getting great results. So yeah, don't hide them beneath case studies. Pull some of those not like interesting nuggets out and sprinkle them throughout the page. Love that. Such a good call out. Totally agree. That needs to be there. Like I feel like the elements are somewhat there. Like if you scroll down Daniel, you know, like this block I got excited initially because I'm like, wow, okay, we're going to talk about the problem. Yeah. I mean, which I guess we kind of are. But then they're like linking to these other places. And then I get disappointed because I'm like, I don't really want to go somewhere else and read about this. Like just talk to me about how you're solving this. So I wonder if the question format is great. Can you also kind of give more context to the problem? So then in their minds, they're going check, check, check, that's me. And then going into this, I have a wide monitor and that graphic sits on like, is it the same for you will you're nodding? It's huge. It's huge. It's like I'm like looking over here and then I'm going over here and then my memory is poor post children that I'm like, I've forgotten what I read over here about time I go over here. Right? Like that one quick thing which you won't be able to fix live. But I'm going to tell you is I really doubt that this website actually didn't run it through compliance checker. The background imagery and text on it, I bet you 25% of the internet can't read that because of the contrast, the number of images and then the responsiveness, the pieces even move. So even if they could read it in one specific portion, they're not on another specific portion. So you're going to, I think like the design thing, it's like it's nice in terms of like, okay, yeah, this is very relevant to us, but putting any kind of text on imagery guys, like you've got to be so careful about that, especially if it's a busy image on the background. I use Accessibi, but you can literally look up Allison, you can look up any web accessibility checker. I just like Accessibi because they list, they do like a list format and in categories of like web accessibility checker. So run through that, not everything is important, but go against the readability color contrast. Those are the things you'll actually like, they pick up on first to get fine for. Awesome. Daniel, can you scroll down to the second section, the question one real quick? Because I liked this too, but one quick thing, and then we can move on or Gabrielle, if you have thoughts on that as well, but pages have this habit of using what I call placeholder headlines where there'll be a headline and you could kind of imagine it on almost in any industry. And like here, answer any question is just so broad and generic. It's a good opportunity to rephrase this, but act as if you're talking directly to the people at utility companies. So it's not like I typed out rather than that, you could say like, assess any risk, no field visit required. And then they see what those risks risks are that they can assess. But I really liked these actual examples in here. So I do think this is a nice section, just with massaging. It could be a lot better. All right, cool. We got to keep it moving. So we're going to wrap up one thing you would change to help them. I think we've been through a couple of good suggestions, but if you have to sum it up and then rapid fire, let us see. And a deal of one to ten. All right, Gabby, you go first. I'm always focused on the top four, because I think most of the magic in general happens there. So I see that we already reduced the subheading. I would make sure that you know, we're explaining better the product. Again, I think the header can be much more simple and straightforward. And I agree with what they will and pass it about the form that it doesn't have to be there and it's a waste of space. So just having a die-hack city, the big does look professional. And I do think there's magic sections. So I would give it a seven. Nice. I love it. All right, keep on the check. Give us your intake. We want what, want to know what you think. All right, Will, let's get your rating. I'll put it at a six. I think it's probably like a five and a half, but extra half credit for literally making changes in real time. That's amazing. That has to be a roast first, I would imagine. But yeah, just reiterating the things focus on above the fold. And also like, don't be afraid to flex a little bit, because it sounds like y'all are getting great results for customers and you know, make that impact known. Fewer outages feels like you're underselling yourself. Okay, I'm going to go on five, but I was going to do six because of the life changes. That was so baller. You know, how long I've worked in house, the company's for 14 years and I still remember this GR ticket where we started this project and then we launched the campaign literally a year later. It was like on the anniversary of the creation of that ticket. So just because of that, you get a whole point because that was like so good, so good. I'll remember this forever. I think we all need to give her a round of applause for Hannah. Yeah, that was so taking this advice. Meeking life changes. Hannah, you are awesome. You have what how many people are here right now? We've got about 350 marketers live. She's right. Yeah, so good. I think that I commend you for like it being a landing page. I think that you could use this if you have the autonomy to make those decisions very quickly. Use this page as like your testing ground to be extremely clear about what you do and what you're offering, especially if it's a first touch point landing page. You want someone to come here and understand immediately what it is you do. So if you want to call out what your product is, do some little research to see because sometimes what we call it internally does not match what we call what people are actually searching for and coming to you when move that form down be clear about the problems that you're solving showcase the product. You have blocks on there that don't have that background imagery. I would make this whole page just like your brand colors, but not that background imagery because I think that you'll actually distract and lose some people on there and then definitely brevity and specificity are going to be your friends on any landing page where you can take some of those bullet points down quite significantly in the solutions area and then that social proof what they can expect after. So yeah, there's like a you're like yeah 50% there. That's how I look at it. So you got 50% to go with some of those tweaks, but it could be overall like simplified and take off all these extra links. You don't need that. Awesome. All right, we're going to speed do one more. I'm going to give some more context here. This is what I got in the submission. All right, we got B2B Capital Equipment Sales, Advanced Technology Space, thank Metal 3D printing, Long Sale Cycle, one to two years, large buying committee. After listening to your podcasts with tasks, I rework the form and say, no form at the top, very informational educational. This is being used for an ADM campaign targeting mid to low funnel accounts in the medical industry through your display ads, demand base. I will judge it by time on page, links to other pages on our website and progression of open opportunities with these accounts. Girl. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. The whole team is watching. Maybe try to reach out to like three honest flame emojis. Well, listen, she followed my suggestion. So it's more like it's more like five heart emojis. How about that? All right, I'm going to do a quick scan of the page and then we'll go up for quick reactions. One thing you would change in rating all at once because we got a couple of minutes, we had to squeeze the thing because we got to announce those five or pro credits at the end of this session as well. Also, as you're scrolling, just shout out to Sarah for being willing to do this with the whole team watching. I would be terrified. So that's amazing. Because that asses in this. I know. I thought machine is really cool. I'm going to go last. Fine implants. Sorry. I'm just I think this is cool. I hope there's a video down here. All right, cool. I'm going to the top or Gabby I want your take. What do you think? What's something you would advise them to do and then let's read on a scale of one to ten. Okay so first of all I mean I understand that the conversion window is very long so there's not a direct conversion goal from there but still I struggled with the city that is on the bottom because first of all it's violet on violet and for me it wasn't clear that this was the primary city so as a structure like I would make sure that still you know you have a real placeholder I think overall design wise it's very dark and it's violet on violet so I feel like it's some of the content is getting lost and I mean in terms of structure it's looking good but but I think it's missing exit point to overpowered because we're trying to drive more links and having people going over on the website and I feel like it when I mean this is the first one that we're seeing we don't have a lot of the engagement I mean place for engagement on the top of the page so I would have some work toward having something that is more engaging does look good but it's very dark. We're eating it already. Yeah I gotta go. Put the ones in the comments. What would you guys rate this? I mean I would give it a six. I like it. All right what do you guys think in the chat and then let's go will and then we'll wrap up the task. Okay yeah just off the cuff I'm gonna give it a four. I strong agree Gabrielle on the colors the purple on like the very dark it's almost like black background just just very hard to read. I also just think this is not a scanning friendly page just in terms of if you look at the headlines many of them are just like can you scroll to the second section Daniel right below the fold. That's fun. Like need a solution that delivers maximum efficiency and lower cost. It's just like the most generic benefits that you could apply to any industry out there and this is a very specific device that serves a very specific set of people like this makes medical implants and it looks like it does a great job from the photos down below renderings or whatever they were. So I almost just think like you do a lot of assuming a lot of times when people get to a page like oh they're on the page they they know who we are by now they know what this is about like they really don't a lot of the time like so any any word like industry related words that you can get into the headlines will go a long way and then it also takes a long time to figure out on the page like what the page is talking about like there were references above to a machine but it wasn't talking about what the machine was and then you finally get to what the machine is like the big reveal and so I was kind of caught between like is this for is this like a a problem aware landing page where people have no concept of the of the thing and you're just focusing on the pain points and then introducing the machine as the hero if so like you can do that but I think you need to lean into more of what those actual problems are beyond just the generic throughput efficiency stuff like that so I know we're coming up on time I will shut up now and let let ask her all right test rapid fire okay rapid fire but first I have a lot of thoughts Sarah just like message me on LinkedIn after and I'll do a free audit for you okay like a full audit anyway so my first thing is I did run it through the accessibility scan and you are not compliant in terms of the font size and the color contrast which they kind of alluded to but just like officially it does not meet those requirements or something to just consider definitely two colors that are the same on top of each other aren't gonna pass that so just something to consider there I do agree on the efficiency and lower cost thing I actually wrote a post like a couple days ago and it was kind of mean but I just said if every SaaS platform company well I said SaaS but obviously I don't know if your SaaS or not which was another question I was like wait it's a machine or is it a platform is it a solution like I don't know what's going on but I said if every one of them delivered and I promise I'd be the fastest and richest person on earth and so I just don't think that that's your value prop that you need to lead with or your benefit I know eventually it does but that's not what it is so I think once you come up to the actual product that's down here that's when it starts to become a little clearer about what you do in fact Daniel if you can scroll down to the part that says find feature detail and superius finish that was the point where it clicked for me I was like oh I kind of get what this does right and it's halfway down the page only 30% of people make it to the bottom of the page on the average B2 landing page right other than that too this still has the full navigation which can then just like if they can understand what you're doing on this page they are 100% going to other pages and most people would misconstrue that as oh well I'm giving them access to other pages well they wouldn't need to access as many if they didn't know the depth over breath thing or breath over depth thing I thought about you have the quotes down below I would swap these I would just move that up and lead is here and then yeah some stuff about yourself there's some kind of proposal happening over here and then are you ready to break free what am I breaking free from what are the steps what's the process that's my high level thoughts I would probably give this like a four or five probably a four because I'm still unclear on what you did I went to your main website to kind of look and I'm like okay actually if we hover over your home page the meta tag says metal 3d printers that tells me more than this entire landing page told me so if that's accurate then they then there you go but seriously send me a message I'm happy to do a free audit for you like I did for the XF5 community some time ago and I'll send you a loom with some other tips that was amazing thank you guys so much for joining to roost that was off them it's the only session that went a little over to which I think just speaks to how awesome you guys are so we have something very exciting which you know you've been waiting for so we are giving away in this session $5,000 in credits to Fiverr Pro and we have our winner who is Dan Roche he is the CMO at workbook so we will hook you up via email with the Fiverr team and then you will get your 5K credit and for the rest of you if you didn't win but you still want to check out Fiverr we have a fun link to give you and if you use the code exit 15 and I'll pop that in there too so that link and then the code I'll just type it instead of copying exit 15 you'll get 15% off your first project which Fiverr so now we're going to head into the pricing section of the roost and that's our last session of the day but thank you, cast will and Gabby for that awesome session and please go follow them on link in you're gonna learn a ton thanks everybody. Thanks so much. Thank you. 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