Speaker 1Once I had an amazing potential client and project, or so I thought, we talked for four hours over a few days. I sent a proposal, I had already told her the price, so this was just a formality. I sent the contract and then she disappeared, like completely disappeared and I have no idea why. Everything seemed great. I even checked in a few times, but never got a response. Welcome to the Profitable Graphic Designer Podcast. My name is Katie Sandel and this episode was brought to you by Aventive Academy, an online business education platform that helps brand graphic and web designers get more clients, increase their pricing, and build a profitable design career. We have online programs, courses, and templates that you can use, and you can find out more about starting and growing your freelance design business at AventiveAcademy.com. We have all been there. We all had or have clients who would completely disappear. Maybe sometimes ignore us or don't have time to respond, or maybe they already found someone else but didn't bother to waste their time and send us an email to let us know. People are, I'm not going to say people are rude, you know, like people are not, like I can't just like generalize everyone. There are amazing clients and there are clients from hell, right? That's why that website even exists and that's why that website clients from hell is so famous. Actually. I have to now tell you a little story of one of my clients from hell. It was like the worst client ever, but also I'm not going to go deeper into exactly what happened. Maybe I will in one of the future episodes, but there was a contest where you could apply, like submit your story. And so I submitted my story and it seems like I had the worst client from all applicants and I got Adobe subscription for a year for free. So that's how bad of clients I had in the past. And if you're having a bad client, that's totally normal and totally fine. And I think that every freelancer and not just every freelancer, but every business owner, every entrepreneur has had a bad client in their life, like for sure. But that's now, you know, totally different topic than when people disappear. There are so many different reasons why your potential clients or even your current client, just stop responding to your emails. And to be honest, recently, something like that did happen to me as well. We were kind of like, we finished the project. So everything went well. That guy was already my client and it was like 20K. So the project was about $20,000. He paid, I think like 15 or 16 already. And we never even transferred the files to him. So he didn't disappear to me like on purpose because he would lose. He would lose $15,000. There were only $5,000 left for him to pay, but he never got his logo. He never got his brochures. He never got his website, like nothing. So it kind of like, I knew that he has to come back. However, he just completely stopped responding. I sent an email, I called, you know, I didn't want to like bother him too much. But over a couple of weeks, I sent a few follow-ups like, hey, you know, we made all the last revisions and changes. And he's just like not responding. And then all of a sudden he sends an email, hey, I was busy with work and this wasn't like my priority, whatever. Now I'm ready to move forward. If you can transfer the website, I'll pay the rest. And like, that's it. So I'm like, okay, well, thank you for letting me know, you know? So not everyone disappears on purpose or because they, I don't know, like they have different reasons, you know, why they disappear. However, this was my current client. Like someone who I'm already working with and not like a potential client who kind of disappeared. So I knew he will be back. However, it's not a nice feeling of, you know, not knowing where the client went. There are so many reasons why people can disappear, why clients disappear, especially potential clients. If they think that you're not the right fit, sometimes they will just not let you know because it's easier for them to disappear. And there's that the whole new. Word that became popular in recent years is like ghosted, you know, I've heard people going for dates and things like that, and then people would ghost them. So I think that that's how clients do with us too. They just ghost us when they think that we are not the right fit. So one of the reasons why your potential clients never responded to your emails or phone calls or anything like that is maybe if you didn't fit their budget, either you were too expensive or too cheap. Now, when it comes to. You know, you being too expensive, that's totally possible because if someone is looking for a cheaper logo, like $100, $200 logo, maybe $500 or whatever it is, and you're charging $5,000, they will be like, okay, whatever. They'll just move on. They will simply not let you know. Some people will. Some people will simply respond, hey, that doesn't fit our budget. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the right fit. Thank you so much for your proposal. Or thank you so much for letting me know. Or whatever it is, they will let you know. A lot of people will not because they just don't care. And that's totally fine. That's not you. It's not your fault. It doesn't have anything with you. It's their personality. And it tells more about them than about you. So don't be like annoyed or bothered by that. Just let them be. So that's if you're too expensive for what they thought they would be paying for a graphic brand or web designer. Or. A photographer, videographer, like, I don't know exactly what you do, but that's, you know, when you're too expensive, you could be also too cheap because there are companies who are, let's say, looking to rebrand. So they're looking for a new logo, colors, typography, labels, boxes, websites and whatnot. And they set budget by themselves, like, you know, internally within the company of, let's say, six figure. So $100,000 is how much they're planning on spending. Or investing into their rebrand. Now, if you send them a proposal or tell them that you're going to charge them $20,000, which is five times less than what they were planning on spending, they'll think, oh, we don't think this freelancer or this designer is the right fit. He's too cheap for us in a way. Maybe her services or his services are not that great. Like something's off. You know, maybe they're looking for an agency. Maybe they're looking for someone who has a lot more experience. Maybe whatever it is, like, you're just not the right fit. You're too cheap for them. So they'll go and look for someone who's going to fit their budget. The other reason why someone would just like ghost you and not respond to your emails or calls is if you didn't communicate well. And what I mean by that is that, let's say you had a potential client who called you or emailed or whatever it is, and you told them. This is my process. This is what you're getting. But they didn't understand it. And, you know, that doesn't always have to be like your fault. But most of the time, that is our fault of not communicating well with a client and not explaining what exactly they get for the price that they pay. So sometimes we will just say, oh, you get logo design, you get this and that. But they don't see the bigger picture. They don't see the value behind that logo. And they don't see the difference between you, Nicole, Sarah, and. And Mark, like whoever, you know, we are all the same to them. We're all just a graphic designer, right? So, like, you have to explain to them the value behind your designs, behind your process, behind like everything that you do. So it's, you know, on you to learn how to communicate well, how to explain to them exactly what they will get. So they're not sure what they're getting. They're, you know, not sure. But you're the right fit. And they might disappear for that reason as well. Also, sometimes clients just want to move faster than what our timeline is. So, for example, they come to you, they're looking for a website and they think because they don't know, you know, they're not designers. They don't know. They think that you can complete the website design or maybe web development or whatever it is in a month. So they tell you, oh, our timeline is four weeks. And you're like, oh, well, that, you know. That's not possible. Or they don't tell you what their timeline is. And then when you tell them that you need three months to complete the project and they had four weeks in their mind, they might just ghost you. They might just not respond to the email because they're looking for faster services, not knowing that that might not be possible. Or maybe even it is possible, but you're booked out. So in this case, it's simply that, you know, the timeline, the finish line is not aligned. with what they're expecting. Another reason, and I think that this happens really, really often, is when clients are maybe not like price shopping, but just browsing for now. And it's the same like when you go to maybe not a grocery store, but you go to a shopping center or a mall or something like that. And then you walk into a store and when someone else asks you, like, how can I help you? You're like, oh, I'm just walking around. I'm just browsing for now. And then, you know, I'll think about it. If I need you, I'll let you know whatever your response is. But it's basically the same principle where you're just walking around, looking at all different shirts and shorts and dresses, heels, like whatever it is. And then you're going to make the decision of what you will buy. So a lot of clients do this and that's totally normal. And, you know, just imagine yourself, let's say you're hiring a writer to help you with your homepage, like to write something for you or maybe social media manager or whatever it is. You're going to contact a few people. You will want to get a few different proposals. You will look into a few different portfolios and then later on hire one person based on, you know, things that you liked or didn't like about others and so on. So this is totally normal and it happens really often. Again, it's not your fault. And it's kind of like industry standard where people will look for a few different options until they find the best one for them. I'm looking into my notes and this one is a good one. So basically, this is when you get a potential client and they don't respond to you, but they were actually not your potential client, but a competitor who were, you know, checking your pricing, your proposals, maybe your process, workflow and so on. And this has happened to me in the past. I also think, and maybe this is something that I shouldn't be saying on my podcast, but I think I did something like this as well, where I would send an email to a graphic designer. Asking for, you know, like, how much is your logo design or how much? Yeah, I think that that's what I did a few years ago, like a long time ago. And, you know, basically, I was just checking how much she's charging, the way she responds to that email, what her timeline is and things like that. And, you know, again, this has happened to me as well, where I would get an email. And even just a few weeks ago, someone reached out to us asking for full rebrand. Like logo, labels, packaging, websites, stationery, like every single thing. And they asked for a proposal. They wanted me to write everything down and kind of like break it down into sections and how much it's going to cost and all that. And while my process is, first of all, not like that, I would try to get them on the call where we can discuss the project. And then on the call, I would tell them how much it is. I don't want to waste my time sending or, I mean, writing proposal. If it's just things don't fit, like if they don't have the budget to pay me, if the timeline doesn't align and so on. So I never actually work on a proposal before they approve it during the call. To go back to the story. So what happened is, yeah, so they reached out, they asked for pricing. And when I tried to get them on the call, they were like, oh, they're just looking for pricing and timeline. They didn't want to get on the call. And I don't even know exactly because it was the fake email address. I don't remember exactly what stood out to me that I was like, oh, wait a minute. I think they're my competitors. It was something like health and wellness related or something skincare or something ideal client. Like, I don't know. And then I Googled or I went to LinkedIn to find their like first and last name. And I saw that they are a branding like agency owner. And then I clicked on him and opened the website. And basically. So did they do the same thing that I do? They're just browsing around and trying to figure out how much I charge for my services, what the process is, timeline and so on. They're doing their competitor analysis. So I get it. It's it's OK. Like, I'm not mad about it. I don't do it to other people anymore. Like I did. Again, I'm not sure that I was supposed to say this online, but it's fine. You know, it's it's what it is. So, you know, you move on. But that's, you know. If something like that happens, you might think, oh, a client ghosted me. Maybe I didn't do something right or anything like that. But they were actually not your client. The other reason why your potential clients can ghost you is if you're not unique enough. And what I mean by that is, for example, and this has happened again to me, is where they would send me an email and I respond and they forget about me or they engage with someone else. Because, you know, every client will reach out to a few different designers and then they will try to select the best fit. And then if I just respond like, oh, hello, thank you so much for reaching out. I would love to know more. Blah, blah, blah. It's just like, OK, blah. Nothing, nothing special versus maybe someone else would be like, hello, thank you so much for reaching out. Are you available this Thursday at 2.15 p.m. for a quick 15 minute call where we can chat about your goals and, you know, whatever it is. And then that person, the client, is going to respond to that email and either get them on the call, they get a client and so on. The client is not going to go back to their inbox and be like, oh, I'm sorry, we hired someone else. Sometimes, you know, they might be like that. Sometimes they might actually go back to your email to let you know that they hired someone else. But most of the time they will just move on and ghost you. So, yeah, there are so many. Different reasons why people would not respond to your emails or your calls. And most of the time is not your fault, even though it can be. For example, if your emails are boring, if you didn't communicate the values, if you didn't explain well what you're providing and things like that. But most of the time people are just selfish. They don't have time. They don't care and they don't respond. So, you know, no hard feelings. Just move on. The same how they moved on to. And, you know, it's really. And I actually have a really funny story. There was a client who ghosted me after he already paid the 50 percent down payment. I did some logo sketches and asked for feedback and he never got back to me. I emailed, called, tried to find him on social media. Nothing. I mean, at least I was paid something. But it was really, really weird to the levels where I was like, well, maybe he died. I mean, it's so bad, but he paid 50 percent. Down payment. However, at that time, I wasn't charging a lot of money for a logo design. So let's say it was, I don't know, maybe a thousand dollars for a logo. And he paid five hundred and disappeared. Still, you know, five hundred dollars is that he lost because, I mean, I don't know what happened. I checked my email a few times. In a sense, if it's working, I use my, you know, different email address to email to this email address. And then use this one to respond. And, you know, I was literally doing everything I can just to make sure that my email is working, that it's not stuck. Or I don't know what it could be, but he just like disappeared. Another client who was a potential client and I thought she was amazing. It was like amazing potential client, an amazing project. It was a skincare line. And this happened, I think, in 2020, right before or during pandemic. I can't, you know, remember exactly, but it wasn't because of pandemic that she disappeared. I mean, I don't know why she disappeared, but I feel like it's not because of pandemic. So we talked for about like four hours over a few calls. And that was totally my mistake in a way that now I would never spend even, I don't know, more than half an hour. Let's say 45 minutes on someone who I don't think that. Would be ready to move forward quicker. So what happened is she reached out to me. I talked to her. It was all great. Like everything went like amazing. Again, you know, it was skincare line. They were looking for, for branding services. They were about to launch at the end of the year. So basically we had like a year to, um, to complete the whole project. Everything went amazing. I told her the price, the timeline. She asked me if I can help her select. The bottles and it just felt like I'm talking to a friend. It was really, really good. And I sent her a proposal after she already approved the price and timeline and everything. So it was literally just a formality. Like, here you go. This is the proposal. This is the summary of our call. Sign it here and I'll send you an invoice. And she just never signed. She had another call, another call, another question, another email. And it was to the level where I'm like, okay, well, we just spent four hours on calls. Me answering your questions, responding to emails and you're not signing, you know, kind of like what's going on. So I sent her an email. This is your proposal. This is your contract. This is your invoice. Or maybe I didn't send invoice yet. I don't know. I was waiting for her to, to sign it. And she never responded. Like she completely disappeared. She ghosted me. I still don't know. I still remember it like it was yesterday. how annoyed I was that I spent four hours for nothing. But it was a big lesson, like a huge, huge lesson where now I talk to a client for about like 15, 20 minutes. I tell them timeline, budget. I tell them every single detail. I mean, I couldn't know that she's going to disappear because I did the same thing. It's just, I provided too much advice where she was asking me about different manufacturers and process and launching skincare lines and social media. However, it didn't end well in a way where, you know, she just disappeared. So whatever, that tells me more about her than about me. And I did check because I knew the name of her company. I did check a few times if she launched the business and I don't see anything. So who knows what changed? Maybe she realized that that business might not be profitable by the time she needs to make some money. Maybe she realized that she doesn't want to do it. Maybe, who knows what it was. However, she never let me know. So I was ghosted by a client. And you know, everything that I just talked about in this podcast episode is what I posted on our Instagram at Aventiva Academy. And there were amazing, amazing comments. Kind of like, if you're not interested, just say it. I hate when this happens. Highly unprofessional. This will happen often, especially when you start. But hey, hanging there, y'all. Yeah. And this is what I also wanted to say is that at the beginning of your career, this will happen very often. But as you move on, as you are growing, as you're charging more, as you're getting more serious leads and whatnot, this will happen way less and less. So I think that in the last three years, maybe, maybe three times this happened to me. And I don't know. I can tell you all about them because I clearly remember them. But in like 2015 or whenever I started my freelancing, I had like, I don't know, 20 people disappear on me that year. And I believe that from those, let's say 20, 15 might be my fault. Let's say that 15 were my fault because I didn't communicate well. I didn't know how to communicate. I didn't describe my process or pricing or whatever it is. My email was boring. And then the last five, who knows what it was. You know, it was maybe something on their end. However, as you start your business, this will happen more often. But as you move on, it might not happen, you know, again. I mean, it probably will, but not as often. Yeah. And the rest of the comments are here. We are facing the same situation. Mostly of these ghosting clients have left me without any response. Even some of our competitors want to know the price. I don't know. I don't know if the problem of the product, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, this happens like really, really often. And then people are like, happened to me. Thanks for sharing this. We learned from these experiences. Exactly. I love this comment. We all make these mistakes. Relate, relate. Yeah. So, you know, if this happens to you, it's totally normal. It's called freelancing. It's called being a business owner, being an entrepreneur and someone who works with people. Whatever you do when you work with people, people are all different. So, yeah, I hope you learned something from this episode and just know that we always improve. And if things were your mistake, that's totally fine. You learn from that and, you know, you improve. And if something is not your mistake, you just let it be. Don't, you know, no hard feelings. Don't care about it. Just move on. As I mentioned during this episode, that tells more about the process. Than about you. Okay. See you next time. Thank you for joining us today on the Profitable Graphic Designer. In addition to this podcast, we have created some amazing online courses to help you set up your business, get more clients and scale to the income level you desire. If you need help developing your freelance portfolio so it stands out, if you want to learn how to create proposals, new clients will say yes to, if you're still trying to figure out how much to charge for your business, you can find us on our website. And if becoming the go-to designer for your dream clients is your goal this year, then I invite you to enroll in my signature 12-week program, The Profitable Designer, or one of our other specialized online courses. To learn more about the programs and get started, visit AventivaAcademy.com. See you next time.
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