21 Disturbing Details in Ohio ‘House of Horrors’ Case

What we saw down here today is pure evil. Sixteen children found in unimaginable conditions. Most of our livestock was kept in better conditions than the children. The kids forced to live in a 12-by-12 room in rural Ohio. Starved, neglected, illiterate, and according to the attorney general, some even unable to speak. It looked like almost feral animals. It was terrible. Here's everything we know so far about the Siders family house of horrors. This is Scandal, presented by Law & Crime. I'm Sierra Valesky. The conditions are out of a horror movie. A 12-by-12 room in rural Appalachia where 16 children are hidden from the outside world. Not even allowed to attend school or leave the house. The conditions are unlike anything I've ever reported on before. Conditions you cannot even imagine people being in, let alone children living in. Where they're covered in bugs and squatting and have that distant look in their eyes. It was terrible. But all that is just the beginning. There's reports of an indecent exposure charge, medical bills so severe they could bankrupt a county, a church, or a school. A child, bride, and even conjoined twins. So what do the accused have to say for themselves? It's not illegal for something to be dirty. It's not illegal for a home to be unkempt. That's a defense attorney for one of the defendants, and we'll hear more from him later. But first, one of the only phrases we've heard so far from the accused child abusers is this little clip. And how do you plead? Stop. This is not the time for you to argue your case. We're taking a deep dive into this case, breaking down all the leads, debunking rumors, highlighting the facts, and even hearing from law and crime's very own Anjanette Levy, the host of Crime Fix, about her research in this case. But first, let's begin with a scene setter. Today's scandal takes us to Vinton County, Ohio, a small county with a population less than 13,000. Here's Ohio prosecutors. This is Southern Ohio. This is Appalachia. That doesn't excuse anything. It's just explanatory. Families with that many children in Appalachia is already pretty unusual. You don't see families with 7, 8, 9, 10 or more children typically in Appalachia. And then if you do, you certainly wouldn't see them confined in such a small room or such a small. This is one of the smallest counties in Ohio, Vinton County, one of the poorest counties in Ohio. For the past four years, Vinton County, Ohio, has been home to the Siders family. 73-year-old Gary Siders Sr., his wife, 67-year-old Christina Siders, who goes by the name Lynn, their son, 36-year-old Gary Siders Jr., and his wife, 33-year-old Elizabeth Siders. On June 30th, a search warrant was executed on their home. And there's been some confusion here. Some reports initially said the warrant was related to Gary Jr.'s public indecency charge. And Gary does face that allegation for four reported incidents between May 23rd and May 31st. But that's not what the search warrant was related to. Here's Gary Sr.'s attorney, Dorian Baum. It would seem pretty odd for a couple of misdemeanor counts of indecent exposure to generate the type of response that happened at this house. I would also be very interested to see what this search warrant said, what the basis for the search warrant was, how they were able to obtain such a search warrant. Because I have a hard time believing, first of all, if all it was was an arrest warrant, then none of this could have happened. So clearly it wasn't just those charges, because if it were, they would have a simple arrest warrant. They would ask for Mr. Siders Jr. to come out, and that would have been the end of it. So obviously there was more there. I'm sure that I and all of my other colleagues who are representing the code. We'll all be very interested to see what the basis for the search warrant was. We'll talk more about that during our interview with Anjanette. But so far, Ohio officials are keeping tight-lipped about why they were there in the first place. All we know is that they were there to serve a search warrant and came across a scene no one expected. I've been doing these types of cases for a long time. I spent a big portion of my career dedicated to prosecuting these types of cases. And I can tell you this is pure evil, what we saw. And I have to commend the deputies from the Benton County Sheriff's Office and our agents from Ohio BCI and I who went into really kind of one of the worst environments that I've seen in my career and were there for those children in their time of need. Inside the home, first responders found a 12-by-12 room, home to 16 children, ages ranging from 6 to 12. Changing from 1 1⁄2 to 18 1⁄2. We will tell you that several of the children are in serious condition. Two of the children had to be care-flighted to level 1 trauma centers because of the nature of the injuries. And it's very, very serious, obviously. The AG actually refused to discuss the kids' emotional state and would only comment on their medical condition. I will tell you this. Their medical condition was so severe that the number one concern of the folks who are law enforcement, officials who were there at the scene, was getting them medical treatment, getting them to safety to the point where literally their lives were in danger at the time. When first responders got a look at the conditions and the sheer number of children, they knew they had to call for backup. Multiple agencies were deployed in this case, including the Hamden Fire Department, Benton County EMS, Jackson County EMS, Jackson County Sheriff's Office, the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, and of course, the Ohio Attorney General's Office. It came as no surprise to me that the Benton County Prosecutor is partnering with the Ohio Attorney General's Office, where I used to work as the Deputy Attorney General, because there's many more resources available, both through the state's Bureau of Criminal Investigation, which is the premier unit of investigators in the state, and through the special prosecution section of the Attorney General's Office. So normally a small-town prosecutor's office like Benton would have three or four prosecutors who do. In a weird way, your head would move. most to emotions there's there is joy when we get when we realize that we're about to change 16 lives for the better but you're also it's hard these people have been here for about four years and you would talk to some people who live in the neighborhood he said I had no idea and talking about somebody asked about to describe the conditions added on to what the sheriff said I didn't actually go into the room where the kids were I just looked through through the door that was yesterday I can still smell I can't get the smell I cannot get the smell off of me or away from me right now we just talked about that a little while ago and then we were talking as a group about some of the evidence we looked at today where they actually discovered the kids and found the kids and it really it's not that different than those old commercials used to see of kids in Africa just where they're covered in bugs and squatting and had that distant look in their eyes it's terrible I mean it is absolutely terrible and again we gotta make sure the kids are safe we gotta make sure they're placed in good solid therapeutic placements and we have to hold accountable the people who are willing to do this to their own family so let's talk about the family all the adults have been charged with endangering children which we'll get to in a second but first their backstory the parents here are Gary jr. and Elizabeth only 36 and 33 respectively and that means Elizabeth was only 15 years old when she had her first baby this came just months after she married Gary jr. and you heard that right by the way married this was back in 2008 Elizabeth was 15 years old and Gary jr. was 18 now it wasn't legal to get married in Ohio for someone only 15 but just across the border in West Virginia Elizabeth was legally allowed to get married with parental approval so she did Elizabeth's uncle-in-law told local TV station w-o-w-k 13 quote she did not have a very good home life when they got together and she escaped to Lynn Christina and Gary's house which was back then a normal American home over the last two decades the family has moved around a lot we know that they have ties to Gallia County there was some talk that they may have been down in Pike County there was some talk that possibly in Jackson County there's some talk that they were up in Wisconsin for a little bit and it appears that they've been back here in Benton County for about four years Elizabeth's brother Jeremy has claimed that she was indoctrinated and we'll talk about this more with Anjanette we're not really sure what that meant I mean indoctrinated into what we can take some clues from his social media posts though on June 30th he wrote quote my sister just wrapped her life up due to indoctrination it is 100 real 20 kids and younger than me the math equals immature piece of explicit man involved I met this dude a couple months ago shook my hand like a baby would super soft hands definitely never worked a day in his life I should have took him out that night I was thinking about it but my sister I was happy to see been 15 years you lost touch with your family followed another look what happened on July 5th he posted another status it reads quote this is what I think slap on the wrist you cannot be charged for ignorance the horror stories is not true nothing is true my sister and her husband really did do their best to their IQ allowance is the one to blame low IQ getting that money similar just like me only on plus 500 app I'd be chasing that money with a bit higher IQ everything is misunderstood their hygiene low IQ the man of the house is responsible at most he is the leader leading followers that's what I think again we're going to talk about all of this during the interview the possibility that maybe there was something else going on here that maybe Elizabeth herself could have been a victim too and in fact her defense team is still trying to figure all of that out I believe it is possible to understand that my client was decided to be a victim of a crime but the court is looking at deciding what the bond is going to be set at there are factors that are emanating out from the court for them to help them make that decision ultimately in this case there's a lot of attention given that I think we're all here and it puts a lot of pressure on the court system it puts a lot of pressure on the media as well for my client specifically not having any criminal history to my knowledge not having ever been charged with failure to appear starts to mitigate some of those factors some of the things that courts will look at in a case like this is what does that criminal history look like have they ever been charged with failure to appear because that's what's trying to determine is this person a flight list at this point in time we are still not sure at least at my office whether my client is a victim I have previously stated that she is not necessarily in the territory of herself as a victim but the investigation from the prosecutor's office and the investigation from my office is still ongoing so with all of that and taking all of that into consideration we have just been filing a motion to modernize this case there's an interesting reply from the prosecutor about this to whether Elizabeth herself could be an additional victim according to her attorney she's not a victim so we'll let him decide how he wants to address his representation of her the victim or not we still don't know what we do know is that all four adults have been charged in this case now originally it was with 17 counts and that was later amended to 16 I'm gonna go over it with you because these are serious allegations and I think it's important that you understand what we are talking about all right these complaints are identical they each contain 16 counts of endangering children which is a violation of revised code 291922B1 and 291922E2D all of those counts are felonies of the second degree all of those accounts allege that you did in Hamden on or about June 30th, 2022 unlawfully abused a child under the age of 18 and that violation resulted in serious physical harm to that child okay if the defendants are convicted here's what they could face each of those felonies of the second degree is punishable by two to eight years as a minimum sentence and a maximum sentence of 12 years in prison a maximum fine of fifteen thousand dollars and 18 months in prison to three years of post-release control all four adults appeared in court for the first time on July 2nd the first two in court were Gary senior and Gary junior side by side how do you plead yes I will enter a not guilty plea for you at this time then and you can confer with counsel okay Mr. Siders would you like me to enter a not guilty plea for you as well until you have the chance to speak with an attorney Mr. Siders would you like me to enter a not guilty plea for you as well they were both very quiet hardly speaking even when bond was discussed Mr. Siders would you like me to enter a not guilty plea for you as well At that time, bond was set for all four defendants, $300,000 each. But the problems just kept coming. To start, the children were taken to medical facilities for care and later placed in temporary custody of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services. But finding a safe place for them could be kind of tough. Because as you can imagine, placing 16 kids in a county of this size taxes the resources. I have assurances from the governor and from the Department of Children and Youth Governor's staff that they will provide whatever we need, whatever resources we need to support these kids and help protect these kids. And that's not the only medical expense the county could face. His medical care could potentially bankrupt Vinton County. This was a new update just this week when Gary Sr. was given bond and taken to the hospital. Gary Siders Sr., the older Gary Siders, was provided with a bond. And he's been given a bond today, an OR bond. Let me explain the circumstances around that. First, let me stress, the community is not at risk because of this bond. Yesterday, as you all know, the cases were scheduled for a preliminary hearing. During the transport, Mr. Siders fell and had a medical issue that required treatment and assessment. Oblenda's Hospital was where he was taken. And it was taken. It was determined at that point upon some tests that Oblenda's did that Mr. Siders Sr. has a serious medical condition that requires specialized care in a hospital outside of this area. Practically, and I don't know if you folks know this or not, but when defendants are housed in county jails, it is the county's responsibility to pay for the medical care. Prisons are for defendants who have been convicted. Then the state pays for it. But he's still an innocent man that has not been convicted yet. So the county was going to be on the hook for his medical care. And again, based on the information that we were provided, his medical care could potentially bankrupt the county. We were not going to put that burden also on our local taxpayers. Because of HIPAA laws, we don't know exactly what happened to Gary Sr. or what sort of condition he's in now, except that he has sought medical treatment. There's also been an order for his competency to be evaluated. Here's his attorney again. Frankly, I've seen what you've seen, which is I saw it appears that he has limited mobility. My understanding is that he had difficulty hearing. It also seemed that he had difficulty understanding the judge. So I have some of the same concerns that anyone else might have looking at a person whose competence might be in question. As anyone who knows anything about the law knows, the very first step is to ensure that your client is competent. You can't move forward otherwise. So one of the basic tenets of my criminal defense of Mr. Sider is going to make sure that he's competent to even stand trial, let alone any of the other defenses we might raise. So I guess the short answer is no, I haven't been able to talk to him yet. I don't know anything other than what everyone else has seen, which is what happened at the arraignment, what took place there, etc., etc. So the defense has been hard at work. Getting Gary Sr. out on bond and working to determine his competency as Elizabeth's team put in a request for a bond modification. On top of all of this, all the defense attorneys involved in this case are combing through the evidence they have, which, according to Dorian Baum, is very little discovery so far. We have gotten so, so little from the state at this point. You know, as has been reported, we've already filed for discovery. We're asking for the state to provide it to us. I've had some minimal communications with the state. But from what I've seen, to be perfectly blunt, when I see a press conference where the state AG is making these hyperbolic, extravagant statements about what he saw, where the sheriff is talking about livestock, is just simply, it's beyond disingenuous, frankly. It appears to me, from what I understand, that these people are really just trying to criminalize poverty and extremely impoverished families. As many people in the media have already noted and have already discovered, the kids who have been described as feral, been described as illiterate, it's my understanding that, as the internet does what it does, it's come out that these older kids had social media pages, Facebook pages, Snapchat pages, which speaks to a couple of things. Number one, if they're so illiterate, how are they posting things online? Number two, if these are kids who are trapped in this place, how are they able to have. Typically, when you see cases where people are trapped or they're not allowed to go do things freely, they're not given internet access, they're not given social media pages. Furthermore, I've seen the inside of this house. I'm pretty sure that the state AG did not see the inside of this house, because when he was making these descriptive statements about what he saw or what he smelled, I'm going to go ahead and guess that he was getting that secondhand from a number of people. And I think for him to come out and again make these hyperbolic statements without himself being really a part of it was just frankly inappropriate. Gary Sr.'s attorney has also made note of a potential grand jury proceeding, which defendants have a right to. But in such a small county as Vinton, it's complicated. The grand jury is a secret process. We do not disclose specifics on that. We hope to be having information for that within the next couple of weeks. What I will tell you is this is not Franklin County who has grand juries every day practically. Normally, Vinton County has a grand jury every other month, which is why the preliminary hearing issue came up. It's because we don't have grand jury that often. And by right, the defendants have the ability to have that hearing. As the prosecution and defense fight back and forth about the details of this case, there's one thing they can all agree on. This was not a case of human trafficking. I know some of the people have been talking about the possibility of human trafficking. That's not what this is. That is not what this is. So it's not like you have kids from all over creation that have been trafficked through. That is distinctly not what this situation is. And while the defense argues the conditions of the home couldn't have been as deplorable as they're being made out to be, the attorney general stands by his comments. I think all of us throughout our careers in public safety and criminal justice have been in some pretty bad scenes. As far as just conditions. This probably was the worst scene that I've been in as far as the deplorable conditions. You know, there's a secondary search warrant going on right now out at the property to continue the investigation. It's my understanding that it may not even be safe for our deputies and the agents to go into certain places of the house because, again, it's just deplorable conditions you cannot even imagine people being in, let alone children living in. On June 7th, all four defendants waived their rights to preliminary hearings. The next step in this case is expected to be the grand jury hearing, though we're not sure when that will take place as it's secret. I'm just going to come out and say this case is crazy. There's so much going on and truly so much to unpack. And we walked you all through it. The facts as we have them right now. But here's the moment you guys have all been waiting for. The expert guest who knows this case inside and out. It's Law and Crime's very own host of Crime Fix, Anjanette Levy. Anjanette, I think this is your first time on Scandal. Thank you for coming on. I think it is my first time. Thank you for having me. It's this will be really fun that we get to unpack this together. Yeah, I'm so excited because we're coworkers. I've known you for years, but you are really the one who is spearheading this case. I mean, you're the one who's on top of all of it. And interestingly, I'm sure a lot of our viewers know you are out of Ohio. You're from Ohio. So my first question for you is, can you explain this area for me in Ohio? Yeah, definitely. So Vinton County is a rural area. It's very beautiful for people who don't know. You know, it's very green down there. Lots of, you know, some lakes and things of that nature. There's not a lot of people who live there. The population is around 13,000, maybe a little less. But it's a beautiful area. But it's also an area that's pretty poor. It's down kind of in Appalachia. And there are a lot of hardworking, good people who live down there. But there are also a lot of people who struggle to make ends meet. So I actually went to summer camp down there when I was in junior high once. I had one summer camp excursion ever in my whole life. And it was in Vinton County. And it was beautiful down there. So it's a really interesting area. It seems very picturesque. But to your point, especially since I've kind of dove into this case, it does seem it's a very small area that may be not the most amount of money in the county. And then to see something of this. I mean, I know that you've worked in news for years. You've covered literally thousands of cases across the country and world. Have you ever come across anything like this? Well, I've come across a lot of cases where children have been found living in awful, horrific conditions. However, I've not come across a case where they went in and discovered 16 children who apparently belonged to one set of parents. in one room. It's been described as 12 by 12. They said that was an estimate. And they claim these kids were in a room where there were species, that there were flies and cockroaches, that type of thing. So, you know, I have covered cases and really horrific, awful child endangering cases. But I haven't covered one where they came out and said, yeah, we went in and we found 16 children ranging in age from one and a half to 18. And they're all in the same room. And nobody knew they were there. You know, the law enforcement agents and the attorney general claims that they talked to the neighbors and the neighbors didn't know there were kids living there, which is stunning to me, because if you have kids, you know that it's hard to keep them still for long at all. You would think these kids might be out in the neighborhood running around, riding bikes. And there was even a bike. There was even a bike that we saw in one of the photos from outside the house. But it appears that nobody really knew that children were living in this home, at least from what we've been told thus far. That to me is so crazy, because I picture my childhood street. And I remember there was one family that we called a big family, and they had four daughters. And that was a big family, quote unquote. So to have 16 kids and essentially keep them hidden away so that the neighbors don't even know they're there, that is crazy. I'm just going to say it. Okay, so I have a lot of questions about this case. And let's start with the search warrant, because you and I were talking before we were recording, but I want all of our viewers to know about this. So there's been some misconception about what led to the search warrant, why it was served. There's some reports about the indecent exposure with Gary Jr. But can you explain, do we even know why the search warrant was served in the first place? Yeah, we don't. It's really kind of wild, because the Vinton County Sheriff's Office, and they were being assisted by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation, which is not uncommon in that area, because these are smaller law enforcement agencies. They got a search warrant, and they went there to investigate and look for evidence of some sort of crime. And I think because these four misdemeanor public indecency counts were filed against Gary Jr. on the same date the search warrant was executed, people kind of thought, oh, it's related to that. I've been told it's not part of that misdemeanor case, that this is something else. What that something else is, I wish I could tell you. I don't know, because the search warrant affidavit, that's the document they supply to the judge in order to say, look, we have probable cause. You need to give us the warrant. That's sealed. The search warrant is also sealed. I have the order sealing both of these documents. And nobody knows why they went there. But what we do know is that when they went in to serve the search warrant and to execute the search warrant, they were surprised. They were surprised that the search warrant was sealed. surprised when they found these children all kind of huddled I guess in a room together so that was not something they expected to find when they went into the house so so the initial investigation why they went to the home that remains a mystery and who was the target of that investigation that that also remains a mystery so question marks still there why they went there in the first place but to your point it was a shock for them to come into this home you said it was a 12 by 12 room that's what the AG said to 12 by 12 room they've been compared to living in poorer conditions than livestock that some of these children are feral that's one of the quotes we actually have the soundbite in this episode and I wanted to ask you about this too because there's been reports the attorney general went on record and said those things you know like some of these children can't even speak but then you spoke to the attorney for Gary senior who said okay some of these kids had social media so what can you tell me about the condition of the kids that we know yeah I mean their their their level of literacy and their ability to speak I'm not so sure we we have a definitive answer on that some of the older children do have social media accounts you know the oldest child is 18 and then there's a 17 year old and if you do the math the ages go down from there and so I found social media accounts for what I believe are at least three of the older children definitely two the two oldest children and so there's not a lot of writing if you will typing regarding these kids but there are a couple of posts here and there on these accounts where they're talking to somebody else somebody also shared some screen grabs of private messages between some of the children the older children and somebody else said a so-called internet boyfriend whatever that means somebody from overseas who was allegedly an internet boyfriend of the older girl but they have since broken up and you know that could be a voice to text type message we don't know we don't know how those messages were you you know, initiated or whatever. But there is one that does appear to show one of the girls speaking, saying one word. So we, I think there are some questions about, okay, can they all really speak? Are they semi-literate? But we know they weren't in school. So they weren't getting any type of official public schooling that we know of. But that's neither here nor there. The kids were in a house, allegedly, kept confined in a house. I'm told they're not, they weren't like chained to the wall or anything like that. This is the defense attorney's contention for Gary Sr. He said he's seen nothing that makes this sound like a so-called house of horrors. But I mean, come on, we've got kids that they said were kept in a room and that there was feces in there. They've got flies on them. They had to be rushed to the hospital. And then some of them, one of them at least, had to be intubated. All of these kids have since been released from the hospital, thank goodness. So we still don't know their level of literacy, whether or not they are indeed, some of them developmentally disabled, and how, you know, how bad a shape they were actually in. I mean, were they eating? Were they being fed? These are the key questions that we need answers to. I mean, yeah. And, to your point, no reports here that they're chained up, that this is like a horror movie scenario. But at the same time, if they were living among feces, at the very least, that's unsanitary. That could lead to, you know, disease, infection, illness, so many really, really difficult things. And I guess this leads into my next question too, is we've talked about this county is, you know, very small in terms of population. Where do these kids go from now? Because they all need to be placed somewhere else. And I think that's a really important point. Somewhere safe. And I will say that the attorney general, the prosecuting attorney, everyone has said the number one thing here is that the kids are safe. Like that's our number one goal. So what happens to the kids now? Well, the kids, from everything I understand, have been placed in foster care. And whether those are families in Vinton County, maybe they've gotten some assistance from surrounding counties, we don't know. That information is always kept private when children are placed with specific families and things like that. But it was certainly going to place a strain on the social services agencies there in that small county. So it's our understanding these children have all been placed with some type of foster families. There are times when they will find family members who they believe are suitable to care for children. But we're talking 16 children here. And some of them are toddlers. That's a lot to take care of. The older children may require a little less care. But the older children may require a little less direct hands-on care. But when you've got little kids running around, that's a lot. And we're talking 16 kids. So we're told they're all safe and in good places. But certainly, placing 16 children, I think even in a bigger county, would still be a challenge. Yeah. And you're right. There's different levels here. I mean, the younger kids, maybe they're not even potty trained at this point. We don't know the various levels. Whatever. So it is tough. It's great to hear that they're all in safe places now. But I guess the next question to you, we've talked about how there are 16 victims here. But there's another question mark if potentially there's a 17th. And by that, I mean Elizabeth. OK, so this is the mother. She has been charged. But there's a question mark as to whether she is a victim here too. Because as we've reported, you are the one who found this 15 years old when she got married. She had to go across state lines into West Virginia. She had to go across the state lines into West Virginia to get married, which is interesting to say the least. She's pretty much had kids almost every single year since then. She's now 33 years old. And her brother has gone online and said, I believe she was indoctrinated. What can you tell us about the Elizabeth of it all? Yeah. So that's what we know is that Elizabeth, she grew up in Gallia County. That's an adjoining, a neighboring county to Vinton. And again, a county that's in Appalachia that is rural. It's not a wealthy county. But she grew up in a family. It's my understanding she met Gary Jr. and his family. They were all living in the same mobile home park years ago. Her brother, one of her older said that elizabeth was indoctrinated now into what we don't know what that means i mean indoctrination can mean a lot of things and this is his claim on facebook he he also said you know he hadn't seen her in a long time until recently but he also said that she chose to follow this family um so it appears that elizabeth got pregnant um married gary jr in west virginia when she was 15 he was 18 she had a baby a short time later she was pregnant when they got married and then you know she had babies almost every year since uh so what she was allegedly indoctrinated into according to her brother i don't know uh there's been another siders family member who's spoken out and said that he was of the understanding that elizabeth didn't have a great home life back then um i don't know it's just i have a lot of questions because i just know if i were 15 and i went to my mom and said i want to marry somebody she would say are you like have you lost your mind you're not marrying anybody um you will be i would have been under my mom's thumb um there's no way i would have been marrying somebody at age 15 16 17 i mean right it just wouldn't happen um so something i think there are a lot of questions about what was going on back then with all of that and then why her family hasn't seen her it sounds like until many years somewhat recently um it's very strange it's very strange i've often wondered too is there a religious component to all of this because christina siders who goes by lynn um i know you mentioned that earlier on her facebook account there's a lot of imagery of god you know jesus crosses the lord's prayer okay is there a religious component here and um tommy stalli i just saw a recent interview with him he's the attorney representing elizabeth he said he spoke with her and you know talked about all these children and he claims she said they always wanted a big family i mean this is like a big family on steroids this is not just a big family this is a huge family and he said that she said that children are a blessing from god all children are a blessing from god so i i'm kind of at a loss as to what is going on here is there a religious component here i don't know that is a huge question a lot of people have when i'm just talking to my friends about this case they everyone has said cult religion what's going on here and i think that's one of the things we got to keep following this case to see what's going to come out what can elizabeth tell us about you know most of her adult life and that leads into my next question to gary senior okay so you're the one who spoke to his attorney we have soundbites featured throughout our entire episode here he has since been released into the hospital and obviously there are hippo laws here we can't know exactly what his condition is or you know whatever all of that but what do we know right now about gary senior well we know he's 73 years old photos i've found of gary and lynn on facebook um show that they i mean the photos i mean nobody puts horrible photos on facebook right but the photos i have seen of those two they looked clean um you know they were dressed as normal people are dressed they did not look dirty or anything like that um but these photos are a couple of years old gary is 73 years old he appeared in court in a wheelchair and his attorney said he has some mobility issues and he complained of some pain he had him checked out um he fell actually when they were supposed to be going to court for the um preliminary hearing he fell they took him to the hospital to get him checked out and then a more serious medical condition was discovered so they had to send him to a hospital that could that was equipped to deal with that more serious medical condition so there's something going on with him and there are also questions about whether he's actually able to understand what's going on around him because if you watch his first court appearance he didn't really seem to understand what was going on um his attorney dorian baum filed a motion requesting a competency exam yeah and then also um to see if he might be not guilty of any of these things and he's not guilty of any of these things and he's not guilty of any of these things and he's not guilty of any of these things and he's not guilty of any of these things by reason of insanity which doesn't mean like oh my god he's insane but just does he have some type of mental issue or a mental condition that prevents him from understanding that whatever was going on in that house was wrong uh you know it's whether or not you can understand the wrongfulness of your actions or inaction uh that type of thing so uh that evaluation will be conducted the judge ordered that um he will be assessed to see what his understanding of everything happening is and what what his cognitive abilities are at this point so there there are a lot of questions when it comes to gary senior and there are questions about whether he'll even be released from the hospital um the prosecutor has said if he's released he'll be on gps monitoring and he is not a threat to the community yeah wow i mean i feel like every question that i ask you we talk about it and we speculate and you report the facts and then it's like well we still don't know there's still so many more questions right i mean we're telling you what we know right what we definitely know but there's so much we don't know we don't know um we really don't yeah and i guess that can kind of be my last question as we're wrapping this up what do you anticipate for the future i mean any future court hearings or what can we expect in terms of the justice system as it moves on i know you talked about competency so for gary senior that's going to be a big thing but what about the other three defendants what's ahead well elizabeth as her lawyer has filed a motion requesting that she be released from the court he he said she doesn't have any money she's indigent she's poor she can't put up any money in her bail right now it's three hundred thousand dollars um he said she is agreeable to doing the gps monitoring she is not she would not be a danger to the public she would report to her bail officer things of that nature so um he wants her released without putting up any type of cash bail which i find interesting i will be very interested giving the fact giving the fact that um you know during one of the press conferences somebody asked prosecutor archer the vinton county prosecutor something like her attorney's saying you're investigating whether elizabeth is a victim and he kind of had a really interesting response to that he said um well her attorney says she's not a victim uh but but what her attorney has said is that he's still investigating whether she was a victim so that made me wonder if the attorney if the prosecuting attorney is kind of tipping us off a little bit saying like look this lady's not a victim we don't know that for sure but um i'm wondering if the prosecutor is going to file a response to that motion saying don't know we oppose this motion that that's my that's that's what i'm wondering so we're gonna have to see if there's a hearing about elizabeth being um released on bail whether that will be argued against strenuously by the prosecutor also uh gary jr has those four public indecency counts he was supposed to be in court for that this past week that court date has been moved his attorney couldn't attend so we'll be looking to that and then the grand jury they're going to have to impanel a grand jury to hear this case and then once the grand jury hears the case there could be even more charges stemming from that initial investigation that brought them to the home in the first place so i think the bottom line here is we're still so early on i mean thankfully these kids were rescued they were treated they're now in a safe place but to your point we haven't even had a grand jury convened yet there's still so much ahead and as i said at the top of the interview angie night you've been on top of this case covering it from start to whenever it finishes so thank you so much for giving us some of your time and kind of walking us through the case today thanks for having me i appreciate it and that is where today's episode of scandal leaves us for now if you like what you saw and you want to see more or connect with me on social media you can find me on places like at sierra gillespie thanks for watching today's episode of scandal as always i'm your host sierra gillespie and i'll see you next time