2026 Update: Tony

pushkin hello who is this hi this is kalila holt your producer well hello hello nice to have you back in the studio welcome yeah nice to be uh reunited in this auditory space yes indeed it is have a seat please i'm already sitting but thank you yes um we are gonna revisit some favorite episodes this spring yes i couldn't be more excited you sound not excited at all but uh yeah you know sometimes my enthusiasm doesn't come across and i'm always surprised like same like in photos i think that i'm smiling but then when i see the photos not only am i not smiling at all it looks like i'm scowling i have a really hard time showing enthusiasm too i've noticed that often when i try to like really lean into enthusiasm in my voice it sounds like i'm being sarcastic yeah but i i am excited and i'm gonna prove it to you i'm gonna prove to you my excitement and my enthusiasm as as this conversation goes on okay i look forward to that yes and we're gonna also check in with our former guests because you know a lot of them have had some changes in the years since whereas stories and lives continue and so lives do end eventually oh god thanks for bringing the whole thing down i'm just i mean it's everyone's thinking it all right anyway who are we talking about today so today uh we're gonna revisit the episode um jonathan about your friend tony from our very first season i love it it's been a lot of fun long time yeah that was my favorite episode that season something about it just really moved me huh again it sounds like i'm being sarcastic but i'm i'm serious i really liked it no no i believe you it's a it's a personal favorite of mine because tony's one of my best friends and he's an interesting man and his life beyond the story continued to be interesting and flow in all kinds of uh unexpected and original directions so i was really i was really excited to be able to excited to check in with him after we kind of uh what's the thing that they do in movies like after after the rap party of this episode and actually speaking of rap parties yes you want me to do some rapping no no thank you okay um i have a fun little fun story from production oh please which is that there's a part in this where uh one of tony's godson says it's over for you you old sausage yeah when we celebrated the first season i at the suggestion of chris neary one of the producers on the first season right went and got a cake and i asked them to put on uh it's over you old sausage i i do remember this and i thank you i thank you again for that um but if you had to do it all over again if you were to make edits might you say it's not over you young sausage it's still going um so enjoy yeah enjoy we'll check in with tony at the end of the episode and not to overpromise but there's just a lot that's gone on in his life and a lot that continues to go on yes but first things first a word from our sponsors this is an i heart podcast guaranteed human this is jacob goldstein from business history when the internet arrived most people used it to look things up others saw what it could really do the same is true with chat gpt chat gpt work goes beyond answering questions give it a goal plus things like notes files feedback data or project plans and it can help create a brief analysis deck outline tracker or workflow you stay in control reviewing the work and choosing the final result put chat gpt to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects get started at chat gpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans if you love music and great artist interviews check out before the moment hosted by nile rogers this new series follows nile as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shape their lives and careers from hit makers like miguel to rising stars like alex warren nile explores the stories behind the scenes and the stories behind the careers the songs and the moments that changed everything because every musician remembers the point where everything changed and this podcast tells the stories that came before it listen to before the moment a lincoln original series on the iheart radio app youtube or wherever you get your podcasts we spend hours deciding what to buy but there's a split second decision that can make or break a sale do you have the trust to hit buy now agentic commerce is testing that moment more than ever and that's where paypal comes in with 25 years of checkouts 400 million consumer accounts globally and the benefit of purchase and seller protection all of which make sure wherever a purchase starts it ends with trust built for payments growth and agentic paypal open built for all business visit paypal open.com purchase and seller protections on eligible transactions only terms apply see paypal.com risk management for details hi this is kalila from gimlet media please hold for jonathan goldstein i'm sorry who is this kalila from gimlet media please hold for jonathan goldstein please hold please hold Yeah. Wow. Hello? Hello? How nice of you to take the call from yourself. Oh, hey, Jackie. You seem surprised that you called me. So nice to hear from you. Glad I didn't call you. I didn't realize that I had you on my calendar. But this is great. How are you doing? It's been so busy. It's nice to, like, decompress and have a normal conversation. How's it going? From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Tony. Hello? Hello. How are you? Very good, thanks. I was wondering if you would be up for meeting me for an hour. Okay, well, about? I was absent for most of your life, and, you know, I've always felt bad about it. Here's something you don't hear every day. A godfather awkwardly asking out his 31-year-old godson on a god date. I know you're busy. I know you're a busy-ass, life-mouthed father of two. But if you can spare an hour. For, like, Monday or Tuesday night, you know, I'll bring you. Unfortunately, a week in advance, not a. I don't know what the hell's going on. The godfather being blown off is my friend Tony. The realization that he needed to be a better godfather came suddenly. It was like if Vito Corleone woke up one morning and thought, you know, godfathering should be more than just decapitating horses. And then picked up a rotary phone and asked Johnny Fontaine out on an ice cream date. But to explain how Tony got to this point, let's go back to the beginning. It all started when Tony and I were catching up. And regarding work, how is that going? Good. It's really great. I'm actually enjoying the process of making this film, which is, I think, the really amazing thing about the past year. This past year has been a hard one for Tony. He's recently divorced and still adjusting. The house that has been settled. Yeah, everything is settled. Everything is settled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I first met Tony in college when he was a young film student with manic energy, jean shallot curly black hair, and gray clothes that always smelt of Greek food. After college, we became roommates. And on the weekend, his mother would visit. She referred to me as Gatso Melismano Evryaki, which I think translates loosely as the alley cat-haired little Jew. But I didn't mind, because whenever she showed up, she brought homemade spinacopita and terra mussolata. Tony would wash down these Grecian delights with copious amounts of booze. Pretty soon, he started washing everything down with booze. There's an image from that time that stuck with me. Tony had decided to join me at the gym after downing a half bottle of vodka. I remember him wailing on the heavy bag in his undershirt, and gray jeans, looking a little like a kid pounding on the floor, fed up with everything. Eventually, Tony turned to harder drugs. like heroin. And soon after that, we stopped being roommates. Tony went to rehab, and after he got out, spent some years putting his life back together. He had a few relationships, and then he met Natalie. Natalie was smart and loved to write, and when Tony hugged her, she disappeared into his body. Tony's a big guy with a thick black beard covering his boyish face, and Natalie was apple-cheeked and glamorous. I liked being around them. One time, while walking by a curiosity shop, I saw a comically small ping-pong table in the window. Immediately, I thought of Tony and Natalie. I imagined the two of them in their kitchen smacking the little ball back and forth together, and laughing. During their wedding vows, Natalie said, I vow to grow old with you, but most of all, to grow young with you. And Tony, in the end, said, I vowed to grow old with you, but most of all, to grow young with you. Tony, in the end, said, I vowed to grow old with you, but most of all, to grow young with you. Tony interrupted her, right in the middle, eyes welling up, to say, me too. It was like he'd blown his youth, but was getting another chance. But then, at some point around three years in, things started to get tougher. Tony spent a lot of time locked in his studio, working obsessively on his movies, and Natalie started to feel hamstrung by Montreal. Its smallness, the lack of opportunities. They wanted a baby, but were having a hard time with it. And then, Tony's dad died, making him the sole caretaker of his mother, a woman who didn't shy away from espousing strong opinions about her son's personal life. All of this was hard on him and Natalie. She was not happy. She was not happy. She was not happy. She just didn't want to be here. Natalie wanted to start a new life in a new place, but Tony felt happily stuck in the old one, and he couldn't leave his mother all alone. So when Natalie decided to leave town, he knew he couldn't go with her. Was there ever a conversation? In which you were both trying to envision a way in which you could leave the city? No, because there was no way. Like even with your mother to go with you? Why is that? No. Tony's mother is an 84-year-old Greek woman with little English, whose only hobbies are meticulously cleaning her toaster oven and wringing her hands while frowning. And so in here lies the heart of Tony's current problem. When they separated, Tony and Natalie were trying to have a baby. And now he finds himself alone, middle-aged, and worried he's missed his last chance to have a kid. I don't think there's a point to anything if you don't have a relationship with a young person. How do you mean? If I sit here in the dark thinking about it and realizing, you know, I'm 46 years old and I live alone and I'm not, you know, probably not going to have kids and who the fuck gives a shit if I live or die, aside from my mother. And a few friends. But really, who gives a shit? You know? Who's going to feel a loss? I'm not saying that in a negatistical way, but who do I mean something to? Whose life have I enriched? Like, I don't think, I don't understand what there is to do here if you're not somehow helping or being connected to a younger person. Lately, Tony's been thinking about three young people he had been connected to. His estranged godchildren. Tony admits to screwing up those three relationships during three difficult chapters in his life. Drug addiction, rehab, and divorce. What if you were to try to get them back in your life? I'm not sure what difference I can make in somebody's. It's kind of like, hey, here I am, now I'm ready for you. Like, I haven't been here all these years. But hey, here I am now, you know? Hearing my friend give up on himself so easily, I decide to suggest something bold. Why not try reaching out to the godkids he lost, now? I mean, I actually do want to have a relationship. I do. You don't know until you at least try, right? I'm open to anything. Do you have their phone numbers? I get him to tell me about it. I get him to tell me about them, beginning with the first, Paul. I was 16 years old. It was very formal. I held this kid in a Greek Orthodox baptism ceremony for an hour. My arm almost fell off. Babies are really heavy, especially when you have one arm to hold onto them, and you have a candle in the other. Yeah. But it was cute, you know? I was really young, and I was close to their family. But I was 16. Within, like, two years, I was a raving lunatic alcoholic drug addict. I didn't see much of him, or anybody at all, from the family for quite a few years, and I didn't think about him much. That's for sure. And this godkid, what's his name? His name is Paul. And Paul would be about 30 years old now? Yeah, he's 31. And here's the thing. I've never actually talked to him about how he felt having an absentee godfather, but he beat me up. He had an arm wrestle, and I think he really enjoyed that. And when you say enjoyed that, he enjoyed hanging out and spending time with you, or he enjoyed beating you? Enjoyed beating me. For being such a crappy godfather? That's what I'm saying, yeah. Is there a particular question that you would want to pose to him, or to all of them? Do you hate me? Like, does it mean anything that I'm somebody's godfather, because I said so, or somebody said, or we did something a long time ago? It can mean nothing, or it can mean something. You know, godfather's a big fucking deal, if you think about it. It has a spiritual implication. God, right? It's not toilet father. And so with my encouragement, Tony picked up the phone and reached out to Paul, which brings us back to the phone call you heard earlier. How many calls? I mean, on Saturday you said, or? Yeah, I think that'll be easiest. Okay. Are you up to this? You don't feel like, I don't want to impose on you, like. Oh, no, I just, you said, you know, you feel bad. I don't think you should. There's nothing to feel bad about. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, give me a call on the weekend, and we'll try to figure something out. Okay, great. I'll call you. Perfect. All right, sounds good. Oh, take care. All right, bye. You too. Bye. On Saturday, Tony called. With no response, he reached out again. And again. Eventually, he gave up. Tony and Paul never got together. If you're a music fan, here's a new podcast to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic, but in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, that moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made that moment. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Jacob Goldstein from Business History. Imagine Henry Ford trying to create the assembly line. He had factory plans, production schedules, supply information, research, and ideas coming from all directions. His team spent years studying how to make the process work. Now, imagine having ChatGPT work. ChatGPT can help with big projects that have lots of steps. You give it the goal, along with real information like notes, files, reports, feedback, and project plans. It can use approved apps, connected tools, and files to help turn all of that into something useful. A plan, an analysis, a tracker, a presentation outline, or a workflow you can keep improving. And you stay in control. You give direction, review the work, approve actions, and choose the final result. Would Henry Ford have built the assembly line? With ChatGPT, we'll never know. Ford didn't have ChatGPT. You do. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode, available on Plus and Pro plans. Malcolm Gladwell here. My new book, The American Way of Killing, investigates America's gun violence crisis. Why is the richest country in the world plagued by such lethal violence? Through a series of stories, interviews, and archival tips, I confront one of today's most urgent moral dilemmas and examine why the U.S. has never quite understood its own problem and why you can't fix what you refuse to see clearly. Get The American Way of Killing at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or at Audible, Spotify, or wherever audiobooks are sold. Tony and I reconvened, and I tried to bolster his spirits. Maybe things would go better with Godchild II, and Zoe. She is the daughter of a rehab buddy who is actually also a drug addict. dealer here in Montreal when I was dealing dealing in Montreal and we we met in rehab in Ottawa and he asked me do you want to be her godfather I said sure I said you guys didn't baptize her they said no be her godfather okay great and so it was just like that so that was easy yeah but it was meaningful I was happy to do whatever was going to be required of me and I did see the kid you know when she was young and then I moved to Montreal and so she basically grew up without me in the intervening years Tony's only seen Zoe a couple times when she comes to town she doesn't bother looking him up because I remember how I used to see people that were like never mind 40s yeah like people in their 30s were crusty you know yellow toenailed you know old people and you know I get like she likes something on my Facebook page and I'll be like oh but Tony wants more than that since Zoe still lives in Ottawa just a two-hour drive away I suggest you go visit her maybe it isn't too late but after his failed attempt with Paul he isn't sure she'll even want to see him so I offered a road trip down with him for emotional support you know the whole purpose of this thing is for you not to be a deadbeat goddad I know I feel really bad it's my fault it's always last week of high school and Tony's arranged to pick her up after her day of finals you don't mind driving a little fast do you don't go like snail pace grandma style that's my style grandma style don't do that when we get to the school Zoe's waiting outside all right here we go you feeling good I'm feeling good there we go here we go here we go hello hello hello how are you Zoe is 18 she's wearing a yin and yang choker around her neck and a pink scrunchie in her hair so how's everything how are you really good almost done high school yeah the final frontier so good let's go to the park would you like some candy as Tony's emotional support system I thought it might be helpful to bring refreshments we drive along chewing in silence and then Tony decides to break the ice I have a really great disgusting story to tell you well can you contextualize what disgusting oh my god I'm only thinking about it because it happened right around here oh no I don't like where this is going a friend of mine he's been collecting his vomit for the past 20 years in a gigantic tin a gigantic metal drum in the basement that's so terrible why would you why would you bring something like that up right now happened right around here so like wait how did you find out about that so many questions and fun fact the vomit house is on Ralph Street Google map it it's right there next to Brown's Inlet the park we're on our way to I've only been to this park once before and that was a weird day explain I started dating this guy and like the first time we ever hung out outside of school was in this park we were on those swings and I just remember being like wow this is really weird like this is a date so I guess that was like my first date we find a picnic table beside the playground where young mothers are playing with their babies Tony and Zoe sit side by side she fiddling with a strand of hair and he's staring at the table sweeping pebbles of sand back and forth the two of them catch up it turns out Zoe's taking improv classes and Tony's taking improv classes too back and forth oh I'd love to see that I'd love to see that you'd like you'd like my troop I think you'd like those guys a lot being both a friend who wants to encourage bonding as well as a lover of show business I ask if they might improvise a scene or two this is my favorite bench it's funny because it's also my favorite bench and I've actually never seen you sitting here but instead of the comedic romp I'd hoped for I get a sluggish five minute piece of Samuel Bichetti in theater so I guess what I'm saying is you'll either have to move to the bench that's beside mine or beside his and scene I thought like improv is supposed to be like funny well because usually his energy and you're on stage and you're like you're doing stupid shit and people are laughing you're not laughing and in my heart it feels like Christmas morning on Ralph Street as Tony and Zoe begin to bond yeah yeah you look really solid yeah it's like so I'm playing to my audience they're having fun but Tony's still thinking about godfatherhood tentatively he brings it up like I you're the godfather traditionally well godfather's supposed to to provide spiritual instruction and um I wasn't there when you were really young when you were told when you were young this is Tony he's your godfather yeah do you remember that um I always knew that you would you had this like connection to my parents that was really valuable so by extension like you'd be valuable to me even though I didn't know you that well yeah what do you what can I offer you at this point from this point onward in a formal fashion I don't know what you hope for me to provide for you is like to provide for me yeah oh I mean it's a two-way street I mean I can't just like take so much and not give anything to you so that's the point the point you don't you know that's the point is that I'm here for you that is the point with a god child not so much with a god adult the children's book is called the giving tree not the giving and taking tree children aren't self-conscious they don't find it weird to take without giving anything in return but adults do I'm beginning to feel like pushing Tony to reconnect with his god children might have been foolhardy Tony can't just insert himself into a past he missed out on and as for the future Zoe's getting ready to go off to college she's at the point in life when actual parents see less and their kids never mind godparents she was a little bit country and he was a little bit rock and roll that was a song I'm a little bit country yeah no let's do the reverse I'm a little bit as Tony sings both parts of Adani and Marie duet Zoe watches him with a big smile on her face it's clear they really enjoy each other and the afternoon goes well but as far as the god parental relationship Tony wants it feels like it just might be too late I'm really impressed I think you're got a pretty fucking firm hold on things well I mean if you're ever in dire need for like a caregiver when you're old and uh can't go to the bathroom or something like I could help you um only one god child to go will Tony be a godfather or a toilet father is the cat still in the cradle and if so will he scratch Tony's eyes out when roused from his godfatherless slumber we'll find out after these important messages from our sponsors if you're a music fan here's a new podcast to check out it's called before the moment a new series hosted by the legendary Niall Rogers you know him as the producer songwriter guitarist and co-founder of chic but in this series he's hitting the road to sit down and down with some of today's most fascinating artists from hit makers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren Niall explores the stories behind the careers the songs and the moments that changed everything because every artist can point to that turning point that moment before the breakthrough before the success before everything changed through candid conversations and personal stories you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today listen to before the moment a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts this is Jacob Goldstein from business history imagine Henry Ford trying to create the assembly line he had factory plans production schedules supply information research and ideas coming from all directions his team spent years studying how to make the process work now imagine having chat GPT work chat GPT work can help with big projects that have lots of steps you give it the goal along with real information like notes files reports feedback and project plans it can use approved apps connected tools and files to help turn all of that into something useful a plan an analysis a tracker a presentation outline or a workflow you can keep improving and you stay in control you give direction review the work approve actions and choose the final result would Henry Ford have built the assembly line faster with chat GPT we'll never know Ford didn't have chat GPT you do put chat GPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects get started at chat GPT dot com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. Through a series of stories, interviews, and archival tape, I confront one of today's most urgent moral dilemmas and examine why the U.S. Number three is Nicholas, the son of my cousin. This one is especially challenging for Tony because unlike with Paul and Zoe, Tony's not the only godparent in the picture. Tony's ex-wife Natalie was warm and likable. When they started dating, she helped him reconnect with his family. So much so that when Nicholas was born, his mom, a cousin Tony wasn't even especially close to, asked them both to be his godparents. Tony and Natalie were together at Nicholas's baptism. I was holding him. And he was really, he was, he was really upset until I, I, I took him and he was quiet the whole time. And everybody was kind of spooked by the fact that he was suddenly so quiet when I was holding him. So there was this whole kind of energy around like, oh, why is this power Tony has over Nicholas or why is he so quiet? And everybody seemed to make a kind of a strange impression on people. And it felt good to sort of be, I guess, for whatever reason had nothing to do with me. Somehow this kid felt soothed or calmed by, by me. And we baptized the kid. We had a big party. And then we started, we were there every year, like three, four times a year, which is pretty good, but it was all good, but it was all about being with Natalie. Natalie was the initiator. She's the one who planned the godparent stuff like trips with Nicholas to the movies and the museum. Nicholas loved Natalie and related to her and Tony as a unit. So when that unit split up, Tony couldn't bring himself to keep visiting Nicholas and his mom. It reminded him too much of Natalie. I didn't feel like seeing them. I didn't feel like going to her house because I always went there with Natalie. But Nicholas's mother continued to reach out. Nicholas really misses you, she'd write. Eventually, she suggested they all get together on neutral ground, her sister's house. So. We did. We set up a surprise dinner, which was about two months ago. And I went, I went over and they were really happy to see me. But at the same time, I noticed Nicholas's first reaction. He was, he was, he was kind of shocked. And I could see that all this stuff went through his eyes. And then he put on this kind of smiley, happy guy thing. I could read it all in his face right away. And you think that was because. Because Natalie wasn't there? Yeah. Yeah. Tony's afraid that Nicholas won't want a relationship with him that doesn't include Natalie. Afraid that maybe he's not the godparent that Nicholas wants. But he also doesn't want to repeat the same mistakes. So he screws up his courage and goes back over for dinner, hoping he and Nicholas can connect again. But before Tony gets a chance to sit down, the very first words out of Nicholas's mouth. So Tony. Yes. How's Natalie? Oh, Natalie, um, she's, she's okay. If you just could get back with her, that would be a relief. Why would that be a relief? Well, I want to see her again. And I never get to see her. Yeah, that's true. I only see you. And that's not enough. Wow. You will see her again. And she says hi. Because she's in Australia. Actually, she's in New Zealand. You don't want to be in the place that she is, right? Well, I don't want to be in New Zealand because it's far away from everything that I do. My mother is here. My mother's an old lady. She's 85 years old and she needs me. I actually can't live alone. So I can't go anywhere. So it's Natalie who doesn't want to be here. It's over for you. It's over for you, old sausage. It looks like that. But you never know. I'm not, I'm not in love with anybody else. They sit down on the couch and Tony faces the thing that's hardest for him to talk about, even with adults, let alone a child. So are you going to be sad if you don't see her again? A bit. A bit? Okay, just kidding. A lot. A lot. Is there anything that. That you want to ask me about Natalie or anything? Did a part of. Did you feel like a part of your heart broke up to pieces? Yeah. You did? Yeah. Very much. A lot. Do you miss her a lot? Yeah. I do. Well, you should have. You should have said this. Come back whenever you. Come. You could come back whenever you want. Or just say. Or just say sorry or something. Yeah. I did. Okay. I said sorry. And so did she. She had things to be sorry about, too. And then I said come back. For a long time, I said come back whenever you want. And. I think. I think she's decided. I think she's decided not to. I think she's decided. Maybe it's because post-Canada takes a long time to get a note. Really long. No, but I read her on the internet. Oh, internet? Yeah. Oh, that makes more sense. I thought you brought it from post-Canada. Tony's putting away his own feelings and focusing on Nicholas's, which is a very godfatherly thing to do. And Nicholas, for his part, seems to be straining on his emotional tiptoes to try and get her back. They try to reach Tony. And together, they meet somewhere in the middle. Do you remember when I. You know I baptized you, right? Yeah. And you were crying. You were really upset. I had to pick you up. When I picked you up, you went totally quiet. And everybody was like, you're so quiet. And everybody said, you made him calm. And I thought, that's cool. Maybe that's what godfathers are supposed to do. They're supposed to make people calm. And be like, everything's okay. Don't worry about it. You know? But let me ask you something. Yeah? What kind of godfather do you want me to be? I wanted you to be the same thing as you are right now. Which is what? You're a really good godfather. I am? Yeah. You're pretty good. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. That's very nice of you to say. It's not a joke. You're really good. You're a godfather. Thank you. That's awesome. Cool, man. And with that, Tony was a godfather. Because when your godchild tells you you're a godfather, you're a godfather. When I talked to Tony a couple weeks later, he'd already seen Nicholas again. They went to visit Tony's mom. He says she liked having a kid around, to wait on, to serve Spanakopita. She's laughing in her heart. This is the best day that I ever had. And it's only just begun. It's only just begun. Now that the last month's rent is skewed in with the damage deposit, take this moment to decide if we meant it, if we tried, or felt around for far too much for things that accidentally tied us. Recording. Heavyweight update. Subtitles by the Amara.org community hey hey let me just uh let me show you what's happening here uh-huh so it's recording on the macbook mic you're getting the macbook mic you're getting the the iphone like six inches from my mouth you know what you're doing you know what jackie cohen would say huh fuck you what would she say she would be like look at you you think you need three microphones you think well you have to say you're so important because everyone wants to hear what you have to say yeah yeah oh zoe says hi by the way say hi to you that's so nice i told her i'd be talking to you and and how is zoe great i mean she's you know she's 28 now oh my and and she's been dating a nice greek boy since then more or less you're kidding no i'm not kidding and he's great he's awesome she didn't move far from home she has like a great job and i was sure she would move to montreal like all her friends did and everybody moves to montreal but she never did and i admire that because she's really building a strong foundation and she's very happy that's wonderful i'm so glad to hear that and nicholas is like amazing i think i told you he's a track athlete like a star athlete really yeah he's graduated from high school he's yeah and he's like coaching me now and he's just turned into a really amazing like resilient like deals with all kinds of hardship really maturely like the total opposite of me like he like i don't i don't know he says he gets spiritual uh guidance from me but i don't know what that would be or if he's just blowing smoke up my ass you know that you guys have a special connection but that that's we do we laugh a lot like we have a good relationship we have a really good time that's so nice so how are you i mean you look well thanks so do you oh well you don't have to say that no but you do um i mean basically i'm okay um i'm a three and three and a half months into the the stay here which is uh gonna be a year wait a second so why don't you explain what here is right of course i have to do that um here is the clear sky meditation and study center it's like a buddhist based retreat center in the rocky mountains of canada and it's where i live with 12 other people who are permanent well long-term residents and i'm trying it out for a year i'm living in a kind of pseudo monastic situation and there's deer everywhere and they just stand like 10 feet away and like stare at you before they dart off just there's coyotes and like howling like 30 feet from from the building at night it's it's really beautiful and it's tough it's tough here it's it's tiring it's it's not for everybody could you just explain a little about how you found out about this place yeah i owe this to my former mother-in-law natalie's mom who actually just a couple of years into my relationship with with natalie i was looking for a place to meditate and she picked up a flyer from this place she used to go to yoga and said this guy is supposed to be good and then when i showed up i realized oh this is traditional like religious buddhism and my first reaction was i uh i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't want i didn't i came to the wrong place this is not this is not way i don't think so basically but um he was a very down-to-earth teacher and he just talked and made a lot of sense to me and i connected really really quickly with him so what what is the path that you're that you're on right now you're thinking of staying there for a year but that is in service to possibly staying there forever possibly anything is possible right now like at this moment in time anything is possible i don't know what i'm gonna do um and you're comfortable with that well not really but yes also i mean i don't know what choice do i have like i i don't want to live in montreal um when i started taking care of my mom when she got sick we should say that yeah in the time since uh since the episode your mother-in-law got sick and she got sick and she got has passed away yeah um and that sort of both freed you and kind of untethered you from from the city from montreal yeah yeah yeah so my mom you know was diagnosed with dementia right before covid and it was uh it was horrifying the onset was horrifying because you don't know what it means you don't know what's what it's going to mean to take care of somebody who's demented you have the worst kind of ideas in my head but it turned out to be yeah my my stint as a parent you know the closest i'm ever going to get to being a parent is i think is taking care of my mom for a few years while she was uh unable to take care of herself and it also brought my relationship with her to a very paradoxically a very good close because we got so close and also because there was this cognitive opening where she wouldn't recognize me a lot of the time and so we were like strangers so there was a different quality to our interactions there was a like a freshness or a kind of openness at times which was really amazing that's a nice way to to see it yeah yeah i i drew a lot of um strength from that it was just a freedom and by the end i mean it's weird taking care of somebody who's going to die as opposed to growing up to be you know an adult does kind of go to school and have a whole life it's it's it's weird it's there's a strangeness to that um but in a way i i feel like i grew it up like i became i finally became an adult um but i don't know what i'm gonna do in the long term because it's i'm still adjusting just to being like a middle-aged person what that means like i'm not even sure like i think i'm starting to realize what that means now what does that mean to you what does it mean to me it means the time is running out like really like i'm really starting to get a sense of like you're you're on the down slope like we're things pick up speed as opposed to oh god life is so hard because you're going up but you're still on the up slope right now it's like no things are getting work things are my body is is is um there's a lot of body issues in the last couple of years but then in the bigger picture is like where do i want to live who do i want to be near what do i want to do these questions are all floating up in the air because i walked away from any kind of you know structure i don't have a family i don't have i keep coming back to that i don't have like my my oldest and dearest friends are scattered all over the place they're not going to live with me you know you guys aren't going to be you know coming up the street with me meatball sandwiches when i'm demented howard might howard might maybe you know he'll be demented first i don't know i don't know god forbid so it's like and it's not like oh i'm setting up a nice little hospice for myself so that i can i have my people to take care of me like i don't i don't care what happens throw me off a cliff fill me with some yogurt no i mean call jackie you want all the regular things it's it's just you're taking a a rather unconventional route to get to those things yeah i i think it has to do with with um um knowing what you're gonna do right so like what if you're not sure that there's a container for for you in in in life like whether there's a job or it's a family or like a very particular career track which is very involving which has steps which you can follow you're kind of free floating you're you're in free fall um and now it's like kindergarten all over again like okay what next what's next and like where's my mommy like what the fuck am i doing what am i doing here like not knowing really not knowing but is is that exciting also at all yeah it is it's very exciting that's good yeah um tony i'm so sorry to have to run off i'm i'm looking at the time i could talk to you all night but i'm supposed to take uh agi he's got a basketball game um give my love to agi and emily and and um tell him i say hi and we'll talk soon i will i will man good to see you okay you be well okay man bye for now bye thanks to everyone who helped put the episode together and we'll be back once again with another exciting update in two weeks also we're starting a free newsletter i know what you're thinking you're thinking finally yes that's right not just audio but now in the form of news and a letter sent directly to your inbox and who knows maybe you'll even hear from a producer or two kalila holt yeah you probably will we'll let you know when new episodes are coming out and we'll send out some other fun stuff as well like um word puzzles uh i'll be not going to send out word puzzles well we don't know yet we might make uh crossword puzzles word jumbles we want to share everything that we can and you can sign up for that at patreon.com heavyweight if you love music and great artist interviews check out before the moment hosted by niall rogers this new series follows niall as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shape their lives and careers from hit makers like miguel to rising stars like alex warren niall explores the stories behind the careers the songs and the moments that changed everything because every musician remembers the point where everything changed and this podcast tells the stories that came before it listen to before the moment a lincoln original series on the iheart radio app youtube or wherever you get your podcasts malcolm gladwell here my new book the american way of killing investigates america's gun violence crisis why is the richest country in the world plagued by such lethal violence through a series of stories interviews and archival tape i confront one of today's most urgent moral dilemmas and examine why the u.s has never quite understood its own problem and why you can't fix what you refuse to see clearly get the american way of killing at pushkin.fm audiobooks or at audible spotify or wherever audiobooks are sold this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human