2026 Starting Pitcher Preview Part 1! Process, Strategy & Top-12 ADP (2/19 Fantasy Baseball Podcast)

Welcome to the fantasy baseball today podcast from CBS Sports Got a fantasy question email fantasy baseball at CBSi dot com get ready to win your lead Now here's Frank Scott and Chris all right, so we've nearly completed all of our hitter position previews We still have you till only coming later on Now comes the fun starting pictures. Welcome into fantasy baseball today on Thursday, February 19th I am Frank sample join by Scott White and Chris towers today on the show It is our starting picture preview part one of a three-part series We'll get to the top 12 to 15 in 80 p later on But I do want to spend a good amount of time talking about process a wider macro level view of pitching in baseball I think starting pictures just completely different than any other position we talk about there's more variables And I think I hope Listeners want to hear more about how the sausage is made with starting pictures So let's start with picture injuries and their unpredictable nature because that feels like a pretty big talking point right now We know that picture injuries are at an all-time high over the past decade for a multitude of reasons Maxx ever velocity chasing spin rate development in the miners I mean you could even go as far as you know development as a youth right whatever the reason you can't deny it picture injuries are more frequent The problem with picture injuries is that they are Unpredictable some of them are unpredictable last year three of the top five pictures in 80 p were Logan Gilbert Zachweeler and Corbin Burns and they were about as safe as it can get when projecting innings year over year All three missed time with injury last year some more severe than others obviously burns, you know missed almost the entire year Zachweeler obviously a pretty big thoracic outlet Surgery that he had last season on the flip side There were other pictures in the top 15 in 80 p 3 in particular That had questions about durability last year gear crochet Yamamoto Jacob DeGrom all three finish as top 12 starting pictures in fantasy and Provided at least 170 innings. I don't want to go off the deep end and just say you know It's a crapshoot any picture can get hurt. I mean look that part of it is true any picture can get hurt But I do think that we have to be cognizant of injury history right I don't think that we would tell anyone to draft a pitching staff of just cold Reagan's entire glass now and brand new Woodrow and Zach Wheeler that would feel irresponsible maybe it could work, but seems like a very low probability so This is a loaded first question Scott will start with you. How do you attack drafting starting pitchers knowing the somewhat unpredictability of injury at the position? It's a crapshoot Frank. I'll say it. No, it's it's not entirely a crapshoot But it's it's closer to that than not The longer I play fantasy based ball the more convinced I am of this You can't you should not Go into the season thinking oh well. I'm safe at pitch at starting pitcher because look at all these safe pitchers I drafted you're going to have injuries you are there's no way around it and you're not gonna see them all coming obviously are there different degrees of injury risk within yeah sure there are but less than For instance the pitchers you listed off there I would put them in different categories for me when I'm assessing injury risk when I'm assessing how how likely a pitcher is To suffer from availability. Let's say the main questions I'm asking are Can he do it? Can he take on an ace workload and I think for Cole Reagan's for instance You mentioned him among them for for him the answer is yes. He threw 186 innings two years ago So can he do it? Yes, we've seen him do it very recently The other question is does his team want him to do it? And that's where Tyler Glass now ends up in the opposite category for me because even if by some miracle He stays healthy for full season which we've never seen him do before but no it's theoretically possible even if it happens I think the Dodger you're gonna let up so like you can remove him as a possible workhorse from you you can't remove Cole Reagan's as a possible workhorse for you So those are mainly what I consider when I'm assessing the risk for an individual pitcher But even sometimes that can be wrong. I mean the answer for Jacob DeGrom For me last year to can he do it would be no we haven't seen him do it in like six years So I am thinking he is physically incapable of doing it Now he did make a change that Kind of that changed the calculation there and it was known going into the season I acknowledged this might change the equation for him But I still was inclined to stay away from DeGrom that change being of course even throw his heart He took something off his fastball for the first time in that same period of time where he had missed all the injuries And so he managed to stay healthy so It's not like there is any full proof approach but I think I think the best one Is like I just laid out to assess whether or not a pitcher is even capable of Of doing of giving you the high end outcome you're looking for which would mean taking on a lot of innings Yeah, like I look at like Jurassicson There's no world in which Jurassicson there's a hundred and seven eighty any season. It's just not gonna happen There's just the rays are going to be too careful with this workload. I think Jurassicson is like Cap that 150-ish innings forever at least as long as he's on the race I just don't think there's any world in which they let him pitch more than that And then I look at like Jacob Begram. I think is a good example where If he stayed healthy He was gonna throw a hundred and seventy innings just because like the Rangers were not gonna start pulling him in the fourth and fifth innings of Start 20's thrown 60 pitches like that's just that's not how they're they're gonna use a guy like that and so I think There are there are guys who can't do it. There are guys who definitely can And there's a whole wide range of guys in the middle where it's just Comes down to whether they can stay healthy Yuri Perez I don't think he's gonna throw a hundred eighty innings under any circumstances this year He's never thrown more than like 90 in a major league season But I think he can stay healthy for 32 starts and throw 160 innings probably and So you know everyone's specific circumstances are different I think one thing that a lot of the injury discussions get at and this is not just for pitchers But it's obviously especially heightened for pitchers is Everyone has injury risk We tend to talk about it as if it's a binary thing and I'm referring to the communal We the fantasy baseball world all of us like Bired Bucston can't stay healthy Matt Olson can't get hurt well Matt Olson can definitely get hurt that can just happen He could just get hit by a pitch on game one of the season and miss six weeks That's just the thing that could happen Byron Bucston last year. I think only one on the IL once a lot of people thought that was just impossible and what it actually means is that Let's say Byron Bucston has an 80 per let let's say Tyler Glass now has an 80% chance of going on the IL in any given season Well that does mean 20% of the time roughly he's not gonna go on the IL That doesn't mean you should expect the 20% outcome But it is to say that If he plays a hundred seasons 20 of them in theory would feature no IL stints Maybe that specific number is not right for Tyler Glass now We're just using it for the sake of argument and the the thing about like Every pitchers injury risk is impossible to know it's never zero It's probably never 100 It might be 100% for Tyler Glass now I was gonna say 99 You know, but like is there a pitcher with a more appropriate name? That Tyler Glass now he is glass now Always has been really but it is to say that The ranges of possible outcomes for every pitcher are probably wider than what we will talk about on today's show because predicting the future is impossible and We don't have access to MRIs and even the people who do have access to MRIs Do things like give carbon burns what $210 million dollars? Seven starts before he suffers Tommy John surgery suffers a torn UCL like It's we're all like even the Even the experts even the people who crunch all the data even the people who have projection systems that bake in injury risk and all those things like I'm not saying it's all worthless It's certainly not it's better to have data than to not have data, but it is to say that To a larger set we have no idea and we're just making educated guesses and one of the things that I think is really tough about injury discussions is You can hear in how we are talking about it Compared to how we talk about everything else that we do in this job everything else we're like 93.1 mile per hour average x-files like we are going down to like the 100th place on on Some of these stats and then with with injuries. It's just I don't know. I think that guy's gonna hurt I think this guy's gonna stay healthy. It's it's totally It's largely vibes based and I think It's one of the biggest places in which It's easy to get tripped up and it's easy to convince yourself that you know more than you do because the truth of the matter And I think the big takeaway here is just we just don't know We really don't know who's going to stay healthy and who isn't we can make our educated guesses and we can look at trends And we can look at guys who have done it and who haven't and say this guy's more likely than the other but Gare Crochet made it through one full season Like one has made it through one full season in his life where he was a full-go starting pitcher the whole time Does that mean he's just gonna do it forever maybe There are Zach Wheeler could not stay healthy until he was like 29 and then he was the The the workhorse of all workhorses for almost a decade But it's also true that just because Gare Crochet did it for one year Doesn't mean that the risk we had on him going into last season has completely disappeared I think Gare Crochet probably still has a sizable amount of risk given his injury history in the lack of track record and I think scubals got risk and Skins even skiing's like he's built like an NFL defensive end. He's gigantic but He still throws 100 miles an hour regularly like that there's just a baseline level of risk that you're taking in and It's all to say it's These are impossible questions to answer, but I do think on the whole you probably need to Try to avoid taking on too much risk But and then we'll get to more of these topics in the future. I think you need to mitigate your risk That's rather than taking on too much And but I also think like we have these discussions, but I like oh This guy's throwing harder that means his injury risk is higher and it's like Yeah, probably It also might mean he's just a significantly better pitcher And at some point you got to get good pitchers too like if you if you draft a whole Staff with no injury risk Congratulations on the eighth best staff in your league It's just not gonna cut it. Yeah, and we'll talk about velocity in a little bit too because I think that part of it is really tricky Like we want velocity to a certain point and then we don't want velocity wait. That's too much velocity So it's it is tricky to talk about I've always looked at pitcher injuries when building out a fantasy baseball pitching staff as a sliding scale right? Earlier on in drafts. I want to take on less risk obviously and then the deeper we go the more likely I am to You know if Chris Boobitch and Edward Cabrera and Nathan of Aldi and guys like that are my SP 4567 whatever it might be That's fine because the opportunity cost is all right if they get hurt I can drop them or you know, it didn't really cost me much to make that investment Cole Reagan's is a little bit of a different story because while he did throw 180 plus innings two years ago He just dealt with a pretty severe shoulder injury last year and he's going in the fifth round So that that is still a pretty big price tag to pay for him. I don't know if this is the right answer But the way that I've always tried to attack it and I've done a few slow drafts already where I've wound up with Cole Reagan twice Both as my SP 2 is when I take him I always feel the need to surround him with other high floor or Quote-unquote durable pitchers that I've done it before right where I got Cole Reagan's with Gare crochet Again, he's my SP 2. I just I just don't believe such a picture exists Yeah, I mean, that might be the case. I got him on another another team where I took framer Valdez as my SP 3 just because he You know has delivered so many innings in the past. I don't know that that You know guarantees he's gonna give me a bunch of innings this upcoming season But he has done it for a long time So I always feel the need where if I do take a risk early on to kind of back it up with I guess some safer options around him And I don't even know if that's the right way to do it. It's just the way that my mind works I think it makes sense In theory it makes sense on paper But I think you are overestimating your ability to assess the safety of a picture and That was the case for Zach Wheeler going into last year. Well, I mean Tarek Scooble he did it just once all skiing same thing But Zach Wheeler year after year you can count on this guy and then what happened and it was garrick cold just a little before that and You know, it's not like it's just one guy every year I mean you mentioned a few at the top of the show that seemed safe last year and and then weren't Some pictures are gonna stay healthy this year And most of them will probably one be those that generally stay healthy But a large percentage of the pictures who don't get hurt It'll be the first time they've gotten hurt in a significant way anyway. So If it happens to work out That you pair a high upside guy who you don't feel secure about with Somebody who you do feel more secure about like a Logan web for instance Great, but I want to expend a lot of mental energy on it You mentioned mitigating risk earlier on Scott and I think for me This is how I mitigate the risk of that I get it. Yeah For me, it's just Draft more pictures than you think you need. Yeah, well, yeah, I do the volume approach Ultimately, you're gonna Like it's always these discussions. I'm currently running a piece about like the biggest questions for every team heading in the spring training I just wrote about the meds and it's like well, there's no no rotation spot for Jonah Tom And it's like well, okay, but Look where do the braves do spring training? They're probably like two hours away from the meds I would guess just look two hours up the road and They've already lost two pictures and they haven't played a single game yet like pitching is pitching is attrition yep, and You are going to lose pictures MLB teams are going to lose pictures. They will be opportunities for guys who do not currently have roles that is almost certain I have heard many times that the marlins had too many pictures heading into seasons And I've watched a lot of like Ronnie Henriquec as starts To know that there's no such thing as too much pitching shout out Janssen junk baby. Yeah, he's already heard So yeah, it's it's it's impossible, but I do think You should have some ground rules when it comes to injuries and when it comes to like where you take certain types of pictures like Guys coming off injury guys coming off surgeries Obviously you downgrade guys who are currently hurt but have like oh like last year George Kirby Oh, he'll be back by late April Well, it was actually late May and he wasn't as good before like seem to have him with every bit your last year shun Yeah, you should not expect the best case scenario when it comes to pictures Especially when they are already hurt because there are just too many ways things can go But I would also say when you're looking at like your aces the guys who are supposed to Hold your staff down while you you mess around with your high upside flyers later in drafts I have a hard time drafting an ace who doesn't have The demonstrated ability to be a hundred eighty inning guy or 160 inning guy. Let's say is the the new version of that and so like I love your Perez. I love chase burns. I think they're awesome talents If they're actually my sp2 That feels pretty scary just because I there's they're not going to throw a hundred eight innings Yeah, and they're probably not going to throw 160 like there's just too many ways for a wrong So they really need to be good To justify that so like I like that. I rank them as sp2's but it's It's scary to actually Click them when it comes to it I think what's maybe missing from this discussion though and and maybe feeds into my approach to drafting pictures is that They're kind of volatile in every way. It's not just how likely they are to stay healthy So just because chase burns is the second picture you draft doesn't mean you have to think of him As your sp2 there you might draft four pictures who could end up being your sp2 especially given the way the position is kind of flattened and There are large sections of the starting picture ranks that I think have comparable upside somebody like chase burns has the ultimate upside of course, but The upside that they could be a top 25 picture and fantasy. I think I think there's a lot of them Yeah, and and that's a good point Scott says about not just injuries being hard to predict but just These guys are dependent on eight other players to Do their jobs in order for them to be able to do their jobs Technically nine I guess because there's a dh who's got a hit for them to score runs so they can get wins and so That is also what makes like pitching is a trition not just because of injuries, but just because We have much less certainty about who's actually good at picture than we do about hitters because So much of their skill so much of their outcomes are out of their hands So not all of it, you know, I think we've moved away from pictures have no control over balls and play but We've only moved to pictures have some control over balls and play the guys behind them still got to make the catches Yeah, I does feel like there's a lot more projection at this position especially when An offseason like this we're collectively Very excited about young pictures, right that we haven't seen do it yet at the major league level So that's just another part of it as well. So let's take our first break before we do that Make sure to like this video if you haven't already subscribed to the channel trying to get to 40k by opening day So help us do just that let's take a break. We'll be back right after this Welcome back in fantasy baseball today. It's our starting picture preview part one and Chris earlier you mentioned Velocity it's kind of tricky. So let's talk about that We know that velocity in baseball is on this kind of continual upward trajectory Fangrafts has league wide velocity dating back to 2002 Leaguewide fastball velocity in 2002 was 89 miles per hour Which sounds laughable in today's environment, but the game was obviously much different than in 2025 the average fastball velocity was 94.1 miles per hour the highest it's ever been it's likely going to continue to rise Why is that there is a big correlation between velocity and stuff The harder you throw the better your stuff is the better your stuff is better the performance theoretically And the better you perform the more you get paid. So obviously pictures are chasing the bag I get it. What makes velocity tricky is that while it helps with stuff It also leads to more injury research in Ron Chandler's 2026 baseball forecaster shows that velocity jumps of two to three miles per hour for a specific picture are highly correlated with injury Reading something like that Might give you a little pause when looking to draft terric scubaal Christopher Sanchez to a lesser extent Camsch Littler those three names in particular scuba fastball velocity up two miles per hour over the past three years Christopher Sanchez average sinker velocity 92.1 miles per hour back in 2023 last year 95.4 Camsch Littler just in 2004 average fastball velocity 95 miles per hour in his starting against the red socks in the playoffs last year 98.9 miles per hour. So this is another loaded question. Chris will start with you But how do you evaluate how do you balance One thing velocity and performance from pictures But also realizing that it could more likely lead to injury Yeah, I think one of the the silliest things people say is like I don't care how hard you throw ball four Because like okay, sure. Yeah, you don't want to walk people, but like You know what helps you avoid ball four is strike three And you're just It's not true for everyone But as a general rule you are more likely to get to strike three through on 97 than 94 There are tradeoffs with command and and obviously injury risk, but There is a reason That major league baseball which is a 10 billion dollar a year business Chase's velocity trains young pictures to throw harder pays guys more when they throw harder that they are not dumb For the most part The Washington nationals specifically are the team that had we don't care how hard you throw ball four On their fence during spring training last year And they famously fired like their entire front office staff This offseason after a nether bad season Smart teams are chasing velocity smart teams are also chasing fastball shape And it's not just velocity. They're looking for good approach angles and all these Advanced stats that we will get into and talk ad nauseam about over the course of the next nine months or so but 97's better than 96 is better than 95 is better than 94 That's just true and so When people you know do the The screenshot of last year's velocity leaders and they draw a big x through all the guys who got hurt and it's like Yeah, guys who throw hard tend to get hurt pictures also tend to get hurt And guys who throw hard tend to be better. So if you're if you're just swearing off anyone who has a velocity jump or anyone who averages 97 miles per hour with their fastball You're just not going to draft the best pictures that that's just the reality of the situation and so There is no way to avoid risk Mm-hmm But I think too many people think of injury risk as the only type of risk And there is the risk that you're going to have terrible pictures because you didn't draft the right one well I don't know that anybody's drafting a pitching staff based on velocity leaders and bringing this To a more granular level because I mean most most of the pictures were drafting are established right and and Um, I don't know All right, let me try and organize my thoughts here. I think Obviously more velocity is better in terms of performance where I get a little Wary is when An already good pitch like we don't need him to be any better. He's already so good And he's adding multiple miles per hour of velocity like obviously Jacob deGround multi-sai young winner He adds a couple miles per hour velocity. He becomes better on a perining basis But he hardly throws any innings. So it was obviously a negative development for him Spencer Schwellenbach. He's very good as a rookie. We're all drafting him as a top 20 guy basically adds a couple more miles per hour of velocity becomes better But doesn't make it through the whole season and now looks like he may miss all of 2026 as well So obviously that was a negative development for him So I I don't Love to see that for pictures who are already very very good Um, and then the other one is pictures who already can't stay healthy Obviously in reports about how great Ryan weather's velocity is this spring and it's like But he already can't stay healthy with the velocity he has So I'm not sure that's what I want to hear from him So those are those are the the instances where I might I might push back on the idea that velocity is always better even though it is Right always gonna lead to better results. It makes you a better picture It will lead to better results Sure that does not necessarily mean it it is better for every single profile. I think on net You could argue it's worse if it makes if it increases injury risk, but my point is just Injury risk is not the only kind of risk of course and no I get why yeah I get like if I'm a pitching coach. I'm not a pitching coach obviously so it's to me a separate It's not really part of the fantasy baseball discussion, but you know you get you've got a guy I guess it's part of the fantasy baseball discussion in this way You got a fringe pitcher who's never really amounted to anything in fantasy And he picks up a couple miles per hour velocity Well, that makes him interesting And it probably does increase his injury risk, but for him it's worth it because he's looking for that bag And for me It's unquestionably a good thing because I didn't care about him before he had that philosophy I think this is call Reagan's before the breakout sure yeah sure No, I think like if Yuri Perez comes out this spring and he's throwing a mile and a half per hour harder It's like yeah, we don't you don't need that that was I was hunter green last year hunter green average 97 in 2024 and then last year he averaged 99 it's like Why although he actually Was better and his injuries weren't are related so who knows yeah Yeah, that's that's kind of a weird what I I still think in his case I've viewed more velocity as a a Negative since I just wanted to stay healthy But I I don't that probably wasn't the reason he got hurt sure Christopher Sanchez is is an interesting one because he was already pretty good for fantasy But obviously the additional velocity took him to say young caliber good and he managed to stay healthy Maybe he won't this year who knows But I I guess It's fine to have these ideas and these perceptions and even to voice them Am I to the point where if I see a already good picture the kind I'm worried about the velocity increase I'm worried about it already good picture picking up Couple miles per hour velocity potentially increasing his injury risk am I to the point where I am so Committed to that idea that it's actually worse for him that I'm gonna avoid him and dress I don't think I'm to that point So this is kind of trying to lose out for a 97 We're happy to see it. Yeah, I mean obviously he used to throw that hard so kind of a different situation But yeah, I I hit your point um, and it's just like I'm I'm I'm not ready to make this a a like a sticking point in fantasy. It's just more kind of uh to me uh kind of a theoretical conversation about How we've seen these increases play out from year to year and it is Very much so a case by case basis. So it's it's like yes, we can have the overarching discussion about it But really it does come down to like every picture being very different in their own ways as you guys talked about Let's get into innings here. We know that 200 innings are now a rarity 2020 is the dividing line you look back in 2019 we had 15 pictures with 200 plus innings From 2021 through 2025 we haven't had more than eight pictures with 200 innings in a single season during that five season stretch Uh over the last three years we haven't had more than five pictures with 200 plus innings in a single season Interestingly enough, we have seen an uptick in pictures with 150 plus innings. So in 2022 There were 62 pictures that accomplished that in 2023. It was 58 pictures who did that Then in 2024 that number shot up to 71 and then last year it was 69 So we're right around 70 pictures two years in a row that have provided 150 plus innings I'm not exactly sure what it means for fantasy. Maybe you guys have a better idea But I do find it slightly encouraging that while we aren't seeing a jump in pictures providing 180 or 200 innings like they used to We are seeing this jump in pictures providing 150 plus innings. Scott does that mean anything to you or Your shape at all how you draft pictures I think it just contributes both both of the the facts that the set of facts you laid out um contribute to the overall flattening at starting picture where they're To me there there's less room for differentiation there, which is why I tend to focus more on quantity over quality up to a point up to a point I mean you get far enough in the picture rankings. You just run out of quality of course But that's pretty far in the picture rankings. I would say I think you set it backwards. I think you you focus on quality over quantity right I focus on quantity getting Okay, a large number of pictures who I think are basically good versus quality getting a small number of pictures who are potentially ace like okay Which so that's how I said it right yeah, okay But it takes a while for the position to run out of quality Complete like I think there's a lot of quality in all phases of the draft And so that's partly why I'm willing to take that approach. It is flattened to a point where 80 names in They're still looking pretty promising to me Eventually that drops off and it's like okay adding more arms here is just adding a bunch of slot Basically, and not gonna do me much good, but I would say standard-sized leagues most of the drafts I do it ends before we get to that point in the picture rankings So that's the biggest takeaway for me that I mean that's something though that's it's been trending the position's been trending that way for a while now I hadn't necessarily considered the idea that there are Uh more pictures going 150 innings Though it makes sense Given how flat the position feels that that's the case Yeah, I don't really have an explanation for why that is but but I don't I think it only furthers the approach I was already taking Yeah, and look it's an arbitrary number, but it's a nice round number 150 innings right and I feel like a lot of times That is a number that we go to like hey if we could at least get 150 innings from this picture I think we'd be pretty happy with that so I thought that was pretty interesting that we are getting more of those pictures over the past couple of years What does the current pitching environment look like from 2021 through 2023? The environment really bounced around dramatically so league wide ERA Went from 4.27 in 2021 to 3.97 in 2022 and then shot all the way back up to 4.33 in 2023 I mean that is just a Wild swing of league wide ERA over a three-year span over the past two years things seem to have stabilized a bit in 2024 league wide ERA 408 with a league wide whip of 127 last year league wide ERA was 4.16 league wide whip of 129 So Personally, I kind of like where things have kind of settled in here You know, we've got the new environment with like they want more balls in play they want more You know kind of a small ball more stolen bases and things like that It feels like a nice balance compared to the up and down nature that we had previously Of course things can always change you know Unforeseen manufacturing things to base balls and like weather and ballpark changes and things like that Chris, what do you think of the overall pitching environment the way that it has Stabilized over the past two years Yeah, I'm not like a Strong believer that we need more offense or less offense as a whole I just want consistency. I think from our perspective and I think From the league's perspective with with how important like Dambling and prediction markets and all that have become for the sports business. I think a I don't even know if it's a level playing field, but just the same playing field every year is what you want You want some kind of predictability that's there there is plenty of unpredictability built into this sport And not knowing what kind of baseball they are going to be playing with and how that's going to affect production I think is the kind of thing that major league baseball just wants to try to avoid if they can and for the most part I think I feel pretty good that you know, we got two relatively similar years in a row doesn't mean it'll be the same, but they seem to have settled on a An acceptable parameter of manufacturing details that they are comfortable with and can replicate and that's the whole That's the only thing I care about. I don't care if the league wide ever ERA is 450 or 350 I just want to have some kind of sense of what kind of league it's going to be and I feel like we're in a good spot there I think you can reach extremes You look at Neapom professional baseball in Japan They've gone too far. Offense is way too hard to come by that would be not great But as long as it's predictable and we can say for the most part We know what the leagues going to look like. I think that's the most important thing I'm pretty happy with where it's at though like you Frank. I mean just decide from fantasy Just speaking as somebody who enjoys watching baseball. I think the aesthetic of the game has improved a lot Most of that probably has to do with the pitch clock But the you know the rules designed for more stolen bases has helped to re-inject that very thrilling element to the game And I think about this past world series how exciting that was and Mostly what stands out in my mind are plays that weren't home runs You know there were a couple big home runs in that world series of course freaking the goat row house, but But the plays that really stand out to me weren't home runs and I think uh Just the the You know obviously it's not just me. It's in the conversation for best world series of all time I don't even think it is a conversation personally And so I think everybody Recognizes that we can all agree 2003 was better Ah come on too soon Chris too soon Let's talk about how to evaluate pictures has loaded question everybody is different obviously I think in a perfect world there would be one metric that just takes every single thing that you can think of And spit out a number or a ranking right we're talking Top-level things like strikeouts walks K-Walk rate ERA peripherals micro analysis like Pitch mix stuff velocity pitch movement arm angle new pitches and then the top line is Innings right with that you have to look at past performance injury risk Six man rotations With all that said I mean look I would love to take all that put it in a formula somewhere and just spit out a number Obviously, I think that's probably impossible. I think projections try their best to do that To my knowledge it is impossible. I don't think that's happening There is no projection system that could just include all of those things. It seems like an impossibility Chris with all that said What are some of the main things that you like to look at and focus on when evaluating pictures? All right, so let's start at the beginning. I think the So in 1876 Abner double day invented professional baseball Oh, that's it. No no idea of anything I just said no But I do think I want to say vorus McCracken is the Named a plume of the guy who first popularized the idea of defense independent pitching stats which is What we know of as fit or x-fip or x-e-ra or c-era or D-ra or whatever Whichever flavor of that you want they all have different permutations and different variables that they take into account But they're all attempting to remove the influence of defense and trying to get to What the pitcher can control? Fit operates under the assumption that pitchers can control strikeouts home runs and walks X-e-ra takes into account strikeouts and walks But also takes into account every bad at ball that the the pitcher gave up and what the average version of that bad at ball does So if it's hit 97 miles an hour at a 15 degree launch angle The average is it's a I don't know 470 woe or whatever that's that's how they're operating That's probably the most in depth the version of of a defense independent pitching stat um Because it takes into account the actual bad at balls that the pitcher is giving up Fit just assumes all bad at balls are the same basically What I find very funny about all of this is Fit still mostly works But what fit can account for what x-e-ra can't account for What MLB teams are doing now when they're building their models is not just Here's how many strikeouts this guy got here when he walks he gave up here's how hard he got hit what MLB teams are doing at least the smart ones are doing and and their pitch models are is saying With this guy's egg arm angle and the the way the ball moves Here's the pitches he could to add to his arsenal to make his fastball play better or here's the changes That stuff is really interesting and valuable and has a lot of value in projecting who could get better or worse from their current baseline I don't think they tell us all that much more than the x-e-ra or c-e-ra or a fit whatever version. I think they are It is very useful to be able to say this guy's got a flat approach angle with his fastball and if he starts throwing it up in the zone More he could be even more effective It still requires him to do that. Yes, and that's what we can't account for. That's why I struggle with a lot of the super granular pitch-based stuff is like It requires something we can't control which is the pitcher being aware of it and then implementing it and then succeeding Yes I still start with I usually start with x-e-ra personally. I think that's the The all-in-one stat that I think incorporates Every aspect of what a pitcher does, but I also acknowledge that the quality of contact that a pitcher gives up fluctuates a lot from one year to the next way more than with hitters average aes velocity way more predictive for hitters from one year to the next than for pitchers so I'm still building off of You know Sierra or x-e-ra those stats that's kind of how I'm going and then trying to find hey this guy has some Really high whiff rate but the strikeout rate's not there stuff like that, but I'm mostly building my analysis off of Kind of strikeouts walks in home runs still to us to a large extent So you said a lot of the same things I wanted to say I'm going to say them in a slightly different way Reinforce the idea. Yes because I think Look if you like the kind of content that breaks down pitchers on a really granular level like that and looks at Plains and and You know seem shifted wake you like all that stuff that's great like if that's enjoyable content for you then you know don't don't let me yuck your yum But I think it can be For the average fantasy player A bit much to the point that it feels like Um What's the word I'm looking for it? It it feels For the trees It feels it feels like you're being excluded from something if you can't master this and I just don't think you need to I think For instance even like stuff plus I don't see a huge correlation between stuff plus and how a picture performs Which is all we really care about in fantasy how he performs I I'm not saying that stuff plus isn't useful. I think From a scouting perspective if if you're working for an MLB team and you're saying hey This guy is being undervalued look at this if we could do this to him Then we could fix him that talent is is laying in wake there and and we could We can put him in our lab and make him better But from our perspective we don't have a lab to put him in so it's it's not so useful for us We're just looking at what this version of the pitcher can do for you right now We don't have control beyond that So um I find them to be red herrings from a fantasy perspective again if you find that interesting content Great enjoy it But I don't know that it's going to help you that much with evaluating players for fantasy So I mean the main things I look at are does he miss bats Which I think is best expressed with swinging strike rate, but if you prefer strikeout rate that'll get you pretty far Does he throw strikes which I think is best expressed with strike rate But if you prefer walk rate that'll get you pretty far Does he get ground balls or fly balls ground balls are generally better But there's a bit of a trade off there in terms of how How hard the pitcher gets hit the the quality of the contact off him if it's weak fly balls that's even better I would say fly balls are generally better for whip ground balls are generally better for ERA But the best version is probably weak fly balls the safest version is probably high ground balls and then um All of those stats that I just gave can be summed up You know if you're mainly focusing on balls and strikes it can be summed up with fit if you're mainly focusing on contact quality It can be summed up with XERA I don't think either tells the whole story so I prefer to evaluate pictures On those individual characteristics, but if you're looking for a shortcut fit in XERA still will get you pretty far The one thing that they don't account for getting back to the original topic here of how How much you should be concerned about injury risk The one thing they can account for is how Deep-Aid pitcher works into games And to me that is something that you should be emphasizing over how likely he is to get hurt because it's way more predictable And so I look at a pitcher's game log and I just Determine how How likely he is to go six plus innings with regularity It's not strictly a factor of how much he did it last year But for established pitchers that's a pretty good gauge up in comers you know you have to You have to project a little more obviously, but as a general rule up in comers are going to be less likely to go six innings with regularity Just because they're going to be babyed early on in their career So you that's a mark against them, but even more than pitchers who I trust to remain healthy because I don't trust many of them to remain healthy I want pitchers who I trust to go six innings regularly when they are because those are going to be Way more impactful For the time that they're available to you can I make one Quick defensive like stuff plus and the more granular sure Pitch level stuff. Yeah, it is Those stabilize really quickly because they're not based on results. They're just based on Modeling pitches based on how other pitches that look and move the same way perform And so when a pitcher introduces a new pitch You might only need one or two starts to look at the stuff plus and say Okay, you've got to do it consistently, but here's what this pitch looks like and what this pitch could be and could me So that that's where I think the more granular stuff has a lot of value and I think it's Sarah's and Lance Brostowski and and and and Nikolayk who is I think a little less statistically focused more scouting focus I think those are incredibly useful Resources and and I I follow all three of them yes, and a bunch of other guys, but and I don't want to get people to get the wrong idea I'm not diminishing their work I think Lance Brostowski and and you know Sarah's are are superstars, but I I think that particular kind of Pitching evaluation matters more if you're working in a scouting department than if you're running a fantasy team for me I think they have a lot more value in season than before the season just because It's basing it on Changes that we're seeing in action. So like once the game start we're gonna see a whole bunch of new pitches Everybody's adding a new pitch I feel like that never happened. I feel like growing up. It was just like The pitches a pitcher had when they debuted are the ones they retired with and they either worked They didn't and they threw them the same amount to everyone and now it's like Nolan McClanes got seven different pitches, but he throws four of them to lefties and five of them to righties and so That's the stuff where I think there's a lot of value in That more granular stuff is is once the game star and seeing Hey, here's what this trend could mean for this player. Yeah Yeah, there's not much more than I could add to what you guys have already said here The one thing that I will bring up on stuff plus and the reason why I don't cite it much on this podcast is that It's different depending on where you look like that there's no just like set stuff plus standard basically It depends on your model and and like a lot of different people who Talk about stuff plus or have a stuff plus model. It's different from like so you'll see Hey, this pitcher might have a 120 stuff plus on his fastball for one person It might be 115 for a different person. So they they just kind of change But I know you can regularly find stuff plus on like fan grabs or In the athletic with you know, Sarah says projections and things like that. So uh look It's a lot of the same things that you guys look at K-ray walk rate uh K-walk I still look at I know it's like Probably one of the oldest in the book, but it's still really really correlated with like get your performance there Yeah, K-minus walk rate that's the wild thing is that like the basic baby stats from like My first saber metrics book by Fisher Price still get you like 80 for 85% of the way to what the more in depth Stats do it's yeah kind of wild how that still works And I know a lot of people ask about like what sources do we use where do we go to find this stuff? So for me Fan graphs for all just a lot of the surface level like eRA whip strikeouts walks You know all the eRA indicators fit x-fibs eera x eRA swinging strike rate K-walk I use like fan graphs is kind of like my I start there and then when I want to dig deeper on specific pitches and things like that I'll go to baseball savant staccast and look at you know pitch mix data and velocity and things like that Uh and and pitch realist calm actually does a great job of like breaking down specific pitches and you could see Whiff rates on specific pitches and movement and and PLV and so you could get really in the weeds on like baseball savant pitch realist calm But fan graphs is usually where I go for just like a lot of the surface level stuff there to start Uh, let's take our final break when we return we will talk about our starting pitcher strategy for this year finally And yes, we will get to the top 12 in 80 people do all that right after this Welcome back in fantasy baseball today. It's our starting pitcher preview part one Let's talk a little strategy given everything that we've talked about to this point. Let's get our set strategy for the upcoming season It feels Plentyful feels that way But spring training games haven't started yet and there will be a lot more injuries you can guarantee that We have the big three up top you've got scoobles schemes and crochet they typically all go in the first round Followed by that big tier right afterwards that spans you know sp4 through 15 I guess you could say however you wanted to find that and then there's even bigger tier after that basically from sp15 to 50 which feels pretty flat so uh with all that scott what is your sp strategy for this season? I'm more open this year to taking the big three in round one or potentially even two If I happen to draft in the spot where they're supposed to go I think they are ranked appropriately and and mainly I think terrick scubaugh garrick crochet and paul schemes present a big enough advantage At this position That they're worth taking on a little more risk that high and drafts the inherent risk that comes with drafting a pitcher um If they stay healthy You're gonna get such a huge advantage in those stats and and I should emphasize I mean this mainly for category sligs roto leagues included ones where Their ratios are taken into account the eRA whip advantage that they give you Um, and of course they give you a big advantage to strikeouts to end point sligs I don't care as much. I'm probably not drafting them because I think the ways they excel aren't as appreciated as much in point sligs and you can piece together a sub optimal pitching staff much easier on a point slig. It's it's it's the more forgiving format for starting pitcher So speaking specifically for roto leagues, I'm happy to take those guys late in round one early round two Beyond that If I don't if it doesn't work out for me to take one of those three there I'm probably not taking my first starting pitcher until round five At the earliest and and just hope somebody from the second tier makes it that far Maybe it's Chris sale maybe it's Christopher Sanchez As somebody like max free do I put in that same tier well sometimes go later Well sometimes go round six. I think I've even seen him go round seven before on a 12-teamer And I'm happy with any of those as my ace. I don't want to I think it's a deep enough tier And I don't think I mean this is the way tears are supposed to work I don't think there are any names in particular there who stand out by so much That they're worth drafting around or too earlier than anyone else So I'm just gonna kind of follow The way the draft is going go with the flow there at starting pitcher and hopefully get somebody From that tier whether it's Chris sale or Christopher Sanchez or max free or Cole Reagan's or whoever I'm not I'm not going to be that choosy about it um and then if That happens Or even if that doesn't happen Let's say that doesn't happen. Let's say I get I Twittled my thumbs for too long and that whole tier gets wiped out before I get a chance to grab a starting pitcher I'm really zeroing in on Kyle Bradish as my ace at that point because I think he is an ace And he's a tier lower in my own rankings certainly in an ADP he's lower But I think he's going to end up delivering that ace outcome. So he is kind of my ultimate ace fallback option Um, others could work in that role as well George Kirby potentially Freddie Peralta Uh Dylan cease maybe even Joe Ryan I don't feel as good about any of them, but if that's the way it goes So be it I can make it work. I feel like but if that's the way it goes if I'm winding up with one of those guys is my ace I'm really hitting pitching hard for the next few rounds because I need that surplus of mid-tier options who I think have upper tier upside And honestly, I'm probably doing that anyway even if I end up with max free does my ace that that is the part of the draft that I hit the hardest and try to build up Enough buffer there that I can withstand all the misfortunes that are likely to come my way Chris same question. What is your starting pitch or strategy for the season? Uh like Scott I'm perfectly willing to spend a late-round first pet first-round pick on skiing scuba or crochet. I think the three of them are basically interchangeable. I think there is a pretty big drop to the next tier, but the next tier is pretty wide And then the tier after that is even wider and historically Uh my research has shown that Pitchers in the first three rounds tend to be the best return on investment among the high end pitchers And then the difference between a fourth round pitcher and then tenth round pitcher again historically Is much slimmer than you would think and I think the reasons for that are fairly obvious And you can just look at the pitchers in that range right now to see that like I think Hazus Lazardo is pretty good Uh He is not so bankable That there's just no risk with drafting him But he's being pushed up into like the fifth or sixth round now. I think uh where's he at like 80 70 uh 80 and 80 p So seventh I mean that's fine. That's around where I have him, but it's like Do I really think Hazus Lazardo is that much more likely to give me a very good season than Kevin Gossman going 40 round 40 picks later Not really I think Lazardo's probably better, but I think the difference between them is is a lot smaller than their 80 p would suggest so I think It's fine to take one of those first couple of pitchers off the board I think if you don't like Scott said your your focus should be in that five to twelve round range One don't reach for anyone in that range. I think that's the big because there's just not that much separating them Let the values fall in that range and get fall you I think Ideally you want one guy that you can count on for like 180 really good innings whether that's Paul schemes awesome would love it if it was Paul schemes, but if it's not if it's Logan Webb or Brian Wu About Brian Wu still not sure about the injury risk there um back story you know whatever max freed You know Coleragan's hunter green Jacob a gromm like someone who could give me 170 really good innings I want one of those guys anchoring my staff and then Depending on how good that first guy is that will tell me where I need to go if it schemes or scuba or crochet I'm probably waiting until like the eighth round to take another picture if it's Hunter green I'm gonna pair that dude with someone I feel really good about because I don't feel particularly good about hunter greens chances of staying healthy so I think that's We're mostly in the same spot. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds very similar our approach this year Yeah, look, I think it's a clean sweep for the big three I am if I have a late first round pick totally fine Taking any of scuba's schemes or crochet if I miss out on that I usually like to get at least two of my top 21 starting pictures which ends with Jesus Luzardo I've shopped a lot in the You know round three to five range for try to get two of those names Christopher Sanchez Brian Wu DeGrom I'm actually drafting to grow on this year feels weird Max freed coleragan's George Kirby just like that range of the draft that I really want at least two of those as kind of my base And then just kind of build it out from there as you guys talked about a big so it so it sounds like you're doubling up in The range of the starting picture ranking because where Chris and I are really just looking for one Yeah, I would like to get at least two of those guys here. Okay, yeah for Big talking point this off season has been who is your sp4 in the rankings right after the big three I just need a name here. Well obviously talk about him a little bit later on But who are your guys sp4 this season? Chris sale for me. Yeah, I think I ended up with sale But the distinction between sale Logan Gilbert Goshenobi Yamamoto Christopher Sanchez etc is Basically non-existent. Yeah, yeah for me it changes based on the format I have Yamamoto as my sp4 in categories league But because it's a six band rotation. He's not gonna give you two star weeks a little bit less volume there In a cat and a point league I have Christopher Sanchez as my sp4 so does change depending on the format Like we did in the outfield. Let's just do a fill in the blank I guess I just did this for myself I would like to get two of my top 21 starting pictures, but Scott you want blank of your top blank starting pictures. Do you have a cutoff that you see like Man by the time I get to this point I would like to have my four or five pictures Uh, let's say four of my top 40 or so I would say Um, I know in our recent 15 team where I only got three on my top 40 and I was I was pretty happy with the way that turned out, but of course that was a 15 team or so preference for my top 40 Chris Sounds right. I was gonna say four of the top 50 something like that. Yeah All right now the moment everyone has been waiting for we're gonna talk about actual pictures now starting picture ADP using fantasy pros average draft position In aggregate of six different sources CBS Yahoo ESPN NFBC RT sports and fan tracks as always subject to change and let's start with that big three all going in the first round terrick scubaal ADP of 5.6 Paul schemes at 9.6 and gare crochet at 11.4 Terrick scubaal is the best pitcher in baseball back to back sia on the ward winner sub 2.4 ERA two years in a row It's a 0.92 whip or better three years in a row crazy stuff double digit strikeouts and 10 of 31 starts He went six plus innings in 23 of 31 starts He's somehow getting better which is insane and he's entering a contract year I mean Look, he's always motivated, but after the arbitration stuff and you know chasing the bag I think there might be even a little bit more motivation this year I mentioned this earlier. It sounds like maybe you guys aren't worried about it But I'll bring it up again fastball is up nearly two miles per hour in the past two years change up is up nearly four miles Power in the past two years Does that worry you at all when drafting Paul ski up? I mean that's cool. Excuse me That's what made him the sia young Top pitcher in baseball he is today. So I can't I can't view that as a negative development for scubaal. Could it Eventually lead to injuries. Well, it hasn't yet. So it's not it's not even a de grom situation where Immediately this guy's body starts betraying him But sure scuba will could get hurt they could all get hurt and You know he threw Denis throw Oh, no, I'm thinking of two years ago where he didn't eat throw like a lot of playoff innings I'm mixing it. I probably only made the stuff. He only made the start Okay, yeah, I think it was just the beginning it's increased last year from the injury plague 2023 to then 2024 Beginnings one playoff start We're asking the same question a year ago tarry scubaal. Is he going to be able to stay healthy? Well, he did Doesn't mean he always will But I don't think you should single him out as a particular injury risk. I don't say any reason to think his injury risk is any higher than the background level of injury risk for any given pitcher How early are you guys willing to take scuba? Um his 80p is at 5.6 So I mean would you actually use the fifth or sixth overall pick on him? No It's more like Probably nine or ten Trying to find it exactly I have eighth for roto. I have crochet right after him at ninth and then skeens 12th So now you have all the numbers all right Let's talk about Paul skeens started his career with the rookie of the year followed by the National league saw young award back to back seasons with a sub to eRA and a sub point nine five whip Now has seven different pitches that he uses between five and 40% of the time If we're nitpicking the strikeout rate came down a bit last year The pirates babyed his innings which was a little bit annoying And only ten starts ten wins in 32 starts that was a problem But you know we expect the pirates to be better this season I don't think they're still there's still not a great team, but they should be better So thoughts on skeens and would you take him or crochet? Chris you first I have crochet a little ahead. I think he's in a better team. He has more strikeout potential, but I think these three are about as close to a three way coin flip as you could possibly get I would not argue with someone who has skeens at the top because his I mean we're talking about two straight innings of a sub to eRA that doesn't happen to begin his career Yeah to begin his career and really like Basically his whole career as a professional at this point. So skeens is not a player I want to bet against or disparage in any way he is incredible There's no injury history here. I again think the baseline level of injury risk for any pitcher is what you apply to Paul skeens I think that's less true of garic crochet given that he does have a somewhat sizable injury track record but In terms of skills crochet might actually be the best of the three So yeah, I I can't I can't express a strong opinion about one over the other in any direction on this three. I think they're all perfectly viable picks for sp1 Again skeens is my 12th overall player for auto So it's same. I don't mean to nitpick, but to me he's the clear third because mostly because he pitches for the pirates there there is uh A little bit of a dip in the strikeout numbers too though. I think that could change I think skeens could catch up to scubul and and crochet as a strikeout pitcher rather easily but I'm pitching for the pirates really holds back as he was 10 and 10 last year with that sub to eRA He was four and eight going into the all star break as well as as uh As skeens was pitching so that matters in fantasy. It's not the most predictable stat But I think you can pretty safely predict that pitching for the pirates I know they're trying to compete now and all but there was a reporter Their manager was saying today that Intimating today that the odds were long Connor Griffin would make the opening day roster So I don't know how hard they they didn't make the sort of moves this off season I think really put them yeah into contention. So um Yeah, I think So the degree we could predict wins. It's hard to see Paul skeens getting more than a dozen or so for a last place team I was gonna say it's like 15 would be my expectation for school one crochet and it's probably 12 for skeens Let's talk a little bit more about gar crochet Lots of talk last off season about whether he could do it over the course of a full season Oh, he could and he did he led the American league in innings He was one of just three pitchers to get to 200 He tweaked the pitch makes a little bit. He wasn't as foreseen fastball reliant mixed in some more sweepers and sinkers I mean, it's a legit four pitch mix all of them are really really good for gar crochet the strike out rate came down from 2024, but it was still elite Scott any concern in the jumps and innings the past couple of years for a gar crochet went from 12.2 to 146 to 213 total innings last year There is a vague concern in that it's always concerning when that happens There isn't a an acute concern For me anyway We were just having the same conversation for tarot scuba last year who by the way Missed a lot of the previous year with an injury So it would have been easy to to make too much of it in scuba's case I think it's easy to make too much of it in crochet's case he will very likely get injured because they all will very likely get injured But I don't think he's in especially likely case to get injured and the underlying stats for crochet are actually stronger than they are for either scuba or scenes over the past two seasons He leads baseball in Sierra Fit K-Walk ratio K-rate Uh, I believe x-ia-ray like he He is pretty much perfect the red socks are a very good pitching development team If you wanted to have gar crochet number one Wouldn't argue All right, well, uh, it sounds like we're all all three of us are fine-tracking any of those three guys I mean, look, it's just kind of uh nit picking out all three, but they are very clearly ahead of the rest So after those three I have done pocket aces at least once this off season so I think it worked out Fine, I don't think it's like ideal, but you can get away with it. You just have to like yeah You have to to look at yourself in like the sixth round and say oh Cole Reagan's is falling I don't care because I can't draft another pitcher. I think you do have to if you're gonna do Hmm pocket aces. I think you really need to commit to the bit and Say I'm going all in on these two and my next like eight to ten picks are hitters Do you think it might be easier to justify and if 15 team leaders basically the deeper the league because Well, they're both great values. They're everybody's only gonna have so many stud hitters everybody's gonna have fewer differentiators within the hitter ranks so you can Catch up maybe a little easier the deeper the league is well, I think biggest argument you just manage at starting pitcher if you do that I think the biggest argument would just be that if you get both Steens and crochet in a 15 team league that means they both fell So they're even better values. Yeah, yeah sure that would be my primary thought there is yeah, I do that in a 15 team league Only because I shouldn't be able to After the big three you drop down to the two three turn where Yoshinobu Yamamoto has an ADP of 24.6 He bounced back from the shoulder injury in 2024 with a massive season 249 ERA 0.99 whip 201 strikeouts over 173 and two thirds innings he went out had an incredible postseason. He was a world series MVP Doesn't nearly everything you look for in a pitcher. He gets whiffs he gets ground balls. He limits hard contact and barrels The negatives the walk rate increased He's in a six-man rotation. So there are natural limitations there And he did have that shoulder injury in 2024 He also just threw 211 total innings. So it was a big workload over the course of the entire years It was pitch-ick every day in the world series. Yeah, pretty much Chris would you actually select Yamamoto at that two three turn in its well seem league Uh, no, no, I think Yoshinobu Yamamoto is being overdrafted. I think uh, it's unlikely to be a bad pick Because I think he's very good and particularly I think he's safe But I don't see much reason to For him to be Significantly ahead of the rest of this group. Christopher Sanchez look and Gilbert Chris sale Brian. We'll which however you want to order those guys I think they're all very very similar some guys get more strikeouts some guys have a lower innings ceiling I think Yamamoto in particular has a lower innings ceiling because That six-man rotation means he's probably gonna max out 30 to 31 starts every year Which means Maybe he averages six innings per start Nobody really does anything more unfortunately last year. He was a little below I suppose I could see a world where he gets to 180 innings But that feels like the absolute max and so I I just I think Yamamoto ceiling is just a little bit lower than some of the other guys And I don't see a reason to push guys into the second round because they have a high floor when we're talking about pictures Who don't have high floors that just doesn't exist See the first hour of this podcast before why um So I don't think he's a bad pick. I don't think he's a bad pitcher certainly but I think his price is just a little out of whack Yeah, I do think that you're drafting Yamamoto more for that floor. I mean you're taking him as the SP4 For me at least I rank him there the expectation is he's probably not going to be like a top five starting pitcher But I think it's pretty likely that he's a top 10 top 12 starting pitcher that I think is fine Because of the innings limitation. I think it's fine to rank him as the SP4 Yeah, I just think it should be the next pick is Christopher Sanchez or Logan Gilbert or whoever your SP5 is my my issue with Yamamoto's price is not that he's SP4 yeah, it's that he is Kind of in a tier on his own now By by 80p but in reality. He's not really he's in a very deep tight tier Yeah, we've talked about this a lot. I mean we mentioned it earlier this tier of you know SP4 through 15 which spends Until round five in some drafts maybe round six. Yeah, so you know Why would you take Yamamoto in round three or round two when you could get a comparable pitcher The next round or two rounds later or three rounds later right so that's just that kind of goes back to the the tiers Approach to drafting there after Yamamoto you dropped out a few picks to Christopher Sanchez with an 80p of 28.8 Big step up last year 250 ERA 106 whip 112 strikeouts over 202 innings. He was one of just three starting pitchers With the 200 innings last year. He saw that big velocity jump on the sinker over the past couple of seasons He works with this three pitch mix sinker change up slider change up as the money pitch But the other two are very good as well. He gets a ton of ground balls. He's really improved the control over the past couple years It's got the things that worry me here are you know the whip just one year prior was 124 So I just always kind of wonder about you know, maybe him regressing closer to that once again And he left the start in April with forearm soreness He never went for an MRI We never heard of the injury ever again And then he just went out to become one of the best pitchers in baseball So maybe it shouldn't be a concern. What do you think about Christopher Sanchez? Yeah, I mean the proof is then the putting there I feel like if if his if his forearm wasn't bad shape He probably wouldn't have pitched as well as he did So I'm I'm not worried about That so much is just You know, it doesn't have a long history of taking on this kind of workload There was a corresponding velocity jump all the things we talked about before but You know we we some go two hundred two ittings. We he's shown he could do it He went 181 deer before so like he's he's proven he can take on the workload you want from a true ace And if he gets hurt he gets hurt and That's just the way the cookie crumbles at starting pitcher So I Think all the developments we saw from Sanchez last year are positive You know in 2024 he tried to bring in that extra velocity and it compromised his control And he kind of had to back off of it a little bit Um and ended up in a pretty good place, but it was it was clearly tinkering and then last year He was able to Bring the full velocity without compromising control and so now he's a great control pitcher He's become a really good strikeout pitcher one of the best groundball pitchers in baseball Uh, and he's a workhorse on top of it. So why what's not to love it could go all it could all go wrong But I don't think there's a clear case for that happening with Sanchez than any of the other pitchers We talked about so far I guess we have to broach the subject because I think every pitcher we've talked about so far except for Gerr crochet will be pitching in the world baseball classic I don't really care But I know some people think that there's a heightened injury risk to the world baseball classic They have very strict rules about usage in the world baseball classic I think the first round you can't throw more than like 65 innings you have to get at least 65 pitches 65 pitches you have to get at least x number of days off between pitching appearances They're trying as best as they can to replicate a spring training workload in competitive games Yeah, I think the idea is that they're competing in high level competition intensity. They're trying harder I don't know if the data actually suggests that I think people remember high profile injuries in the world baseball classic but like the two most high profile injuries in the last world baseball classic were A guy blew out his knee celebrating a win and Jose Al-Tuveg I hit by a pitch. I'm pretty sure if I'm remembering correctly. That sounds right I'm gonna have the guy blew out his knee But maybe there's a I don't know a 3% more injury risk, but I have seen a lot of conversations about this I don't really think there's anything there. I'm not factoring that into my analysis guys just get hurt pitching And lots of guys get hurt and spring training too. Yeah, so I don't really think there's anything there But I just wanted to bring it up in case someone's yelling at their podcast provider while listening to us I would I'm guessing based on the way we talked about the tears and everything If Sanchez is actually a third round pick you guys are probably not winding up with him. I would third round pick no I mean, I'm not drafting a pitcher I am not drafting a pitcher in round three or four All right, period. I don't have a I don't have a starting pitcher ranked in the second or third round I will I'll do it in the fourth round. All right, so I take that back Yamamoto lasted to late in round four and one draft I did so I went ahead and took him but There's exception to every rule right for the most part you're not gonna see me draft a pitcher in round three or four But I mean, Chris there is a chance Sanchez can make it to round four and at that point you you would consider it Yeah, I have him ranked in around 40th overall so I'm Certainly open to yeah, no, no, I said for round four. I would yeah, yeah I don't have them in the second or third round. I don't have any starting pitchers ranked in the second or third round After Sanchez there's just one other name in the third round of 80p and that is hunter brown at 33.2 He has now done it for nearly two seasons He's made 53 starts since the beginning of May in 2024 with a 238 ERA a 105 whip 9.7 K.P.9 during that time he has a diverse pitch mix six six different pitches uses between 4% and 38% usage He up to his four seam sinker and curve usage last year and they are all really good pitches for him He also gets a ton of ground balls. He limits hard contact What worries me a bit about hunter brown is that he regressed in the second half of last year fastball velocity dipped a little bit And just a year prior his whip was 127 so again, it's like worries me a little bit Chris He's the one name where in the third or fourth round I just I haven't really been able to click draft on yet and that's hunter brown. Do you share any of those concerns? Yeah, hunter browns my sp8 so I'm a little I'm low enough that I'm unlikely to draft him even though again Same to here the overall price is very similar to all these guys, but yeah, I I think Hunter brown is probably closer to Logan web Then their prices would indicate Brown obviously coming off a better whip, but Like you said that was up to 114 in the second half and the Shrek at rate was a little lower and I think we we got one of those seasons were kind of everything went right For hunter brown in a way that you can't necessarily rely on every year. So I do think There is likely to be regression he is Among the pitchers in this range who is much more likely to be worse in 2026 than he was in 2025 But There's nothing wrong with a 315 ERA and a 1-1-0 whip. It's just Not quite as good. You know, you made the Logan Gilbert comp To me hunter brown is no different than max freed like right down to how good they are getting ground balls And so I don't see I know I'm higher than the consensus on freed, but I don't see Yep, the reason for separation. I suppose the reason for separation there would be that Brown had 10k per nine last year and freed was 8.7 But again in the second half I'm sorry brown was 8.8 per nine versus freed's 8.7 So basically dead on there and I think that's closer to hunter brown's true talent level given That you look at the swinging strike rates last year. It was only 11.3 that is very average And that was the highest he's ever had So I don't see hunter brown as being at The bat missor his strike out rate his overall strike out rate would lead you to believe he was I think his numbers are going to level up very freed like All right, we head into the fourth round and this is where we see a bunch of names come off the board Brian Wu 80p of 37 Logan Gilbert 38 Chris sale 39 max freed 45 hunter green 46 Logan web 47 Jacob to Graham 48 seven pictures on average in the fourth round right now Let's talk about Brian Brian Wu this dude went from his arm nearly falling off in 2024 to one of the best most consistent pictures in baseball last season 294 ERA 0.93 whip 190 H strikeouts over 186 and two thirds he went six plus innings in 27 of 30 starts Including his first 25 of the season just insane stuff from Brian Wu he has this ridiculous fastball with a slider and sweeper that both get whiffs Chris, I know you've made this comp before but it looks a lot like Zach Wheeler when things are going right for Brian Wu His regular season did end with pectiteness, but he appeared in the playoffs as a relief pitcher I like him, but I have questions. Can he maintain this many whiffs? What if the strike out rate drops back to 2024 levels? Oh, and Scott his arm nearly fell off two years ago. So, uh, would you be okay with Brian Wu in the fourth round as your SP one? I think Chris is going to have a lot more to say about Wu than I am, but just to answer your question briefly Yeah, um, I don't even really hold the pectoral injury against that one over here because it's like he's He exceeded my expectations by so much in terms of how he was And like durable in the sense that I was referring to earlier he was working deep into games and I just I didn't think that was possible for Wu to be honest So now that he's shown it's possible I'm gonna take it at face value More or less. Of course there is a chance he gets hurt again, but I'm saying I'm saying that for every pitcher I don't know that it's it's heightened for Wu based on what he just did so great control pitcher Gonna have a like like a whip standout and I think this is something this is a point we haven't brought up yet. So I'll bring him now I think what you're talking about drafting for five by five or roto Whip if you're gonna fixate on anyone category for pitcher. It's whip. It should be whip That's the one that that depletes the fastest harder to make up for Other categories are important strikeouts You know, I think that's that's a good one to emphasize too, but whip Especially and certainly over ERA Yep Chris. I may have a lot to say about Brian Wu. Yeah, what I really want when I was going to highlight about Brian Wu is Two numbers first numbers 27 the next number is negative three Those are the average launch angles that Brian Wu allows on his fastball his forcing fastball and sinker respectively It is really hard to do a lot of damage with a 27 degree launch angle It is really hard to do a lot of damage with a negative three degree launch angle His forceymer gets a lot of whiffs as well, but it generates weak contact in the air He pitches in a phenomenal ballpark the best ballpark for pitching and baseball He gets ground balls. He doesn't give up walks. He gets a lot of strikeouts now. I Brian Wu in terms of skills is Very very close to having no flaws and it's really just Lingering concerns about the couple of times that he missed time with arm injuries in 2024 It was a right elbow inflammation that put him on the aisle to start 2024 Then he had a right arm injury. I think forearm Tightness in June actually since June of 2024 he hasn't had any Arm issues if we don't count the pack as part of the arm. I know it's connected But it's not part of the arm So he actually became a workhorse in the second half of 2024 when he returned out of nowhere It was crazy. Yep. No, he went like 36 straight starts at one point without Exiting before the end of the sixth inning. It was it was really impressive. So Yeah, I think Brian Wu is Really really good. It's just there's enough lingering concern To knock him more towards the middle of this tier for me, but he's a fourth round pick for me and I'm Happy to end up with him as May's All right, let's talk about his teammate Logan Gilbert It was a weird season for Logan Gilbert He missed a month and a half with a strained right elbow flexor when he pitched his skills were off the charts The highest K rate of his career 11.9 K per nine the highest swinging strike rate of his career 15.5 percent Among starting pitchers with at least 130 innings He ranked third in K minus walk rate But for some odd reason he was just much less efficient He only went six innings in eight of 25 starts after going six in 26 of 33 starts just the year prior It almost feels like he was Trying too hard to get whiffs like chasing whiffs and as a result he was just less efficient because of that And on top of all that he had the flexor shrain in his right arm. So Chris I have found myself passing on him so far in drafts, but I mean the skills were off the charts Yeah, Logan Gilbert's my SP4 actually I said it was Chris sale earlier, but I made the switch to Logan Gilbert and Last year's flexor shrain is a concern for sure on the other hand he made 28 starts last season between the majors and his rehab assignment And he hadn't missed a start before that I don't like just looking through the game logs like since college maybe Like it really he made 25 starts in 2021. I don't know if he missed time At the my early level, but last year was the first time he had an injury since getting called up to the majors in 2021 Of any kind That's been reported. So I don't know how to balance that I tend to just give him the benefit of the doubt that Logan Gilbert is somewhat safe ish and I think these skills are As good as just about anyone including that top three Like if if Logan Gilbert went out through 185 innings of a 260 ERA and a 0.9 whip and struck out 220 batters I really wouldn't be that surprised. That's not that far off from what he did in 2024 The ERA was a little higher 323, but otherwise I think the skill set is there for for Logan Gilbert to win an American league siongas soon as this year I really think like There's a little bit of inconsistency At home and away because he's so much better at home than on the road, but That home park's not changing Team mobile's not going anywhere. I don't think they fixed the batter's eyes. So I think team mobile parks going to remain the best pitching park and baseball. I think If I'm drafting a pitcher from this range I'm shooting for the moon and I think Logan Gilbert is Somewhere around the moon Let's move on to Chris sale. He's entering his age 37 season, but when he pitched last year he still looked like one of the best in the game 258 ERA 107 whip Nearly 12k per nine is highest since 2019. He was limited to Just 125 and two thirds innings due to a fractured left ribcage that he suffered on a diving attempt like a fielding play So it was pretty fluky, but Look the skills are still there. He's old. He's had a lot of injuries in his career It's got I don't mind the price man. If we can get Chris sale in round four I would look to pair him with another pitcher pretty quickly just Again based on how I like to draft, but your thoughts here on Chris sale So he is my number four pitcher though As we've discussed with Yoshino Buoyama moto there it 4 through 12 or let's say 4 through 11 is actually my SP4 and Chris sale is Happens to claim that spot because I think the upside the if he is healthy The likelihood of him being a Sai Young winner is probably the highest of of any of these guys in this range and I mean the best way to put it is that From April 25th on He did have that rib fracture during that time miss some time, but from April 25th on it was 16 starts and all Chris sale had a 1.76 ERA a 0.94 whip and 11.7 Kper 9. I mean he was on track He was on track to win a second consecutive Sai Young and just the portion of that Coming back from the the rib injury. He made six total starts I'm sorry seven totals. No six total starts five of them were exactly nine Strikeouts. So he was cruising then two there's no There's no loss of skill here for Chris sale. He is as good as anybody when he's able to pitch Basically stayed healthy two years ago. Want to say young If not for that ill-fated dive Diving attempt last year Who knows it wasn't an arm entry that's that's really what I'm emphasizing here So the idea that Chris sale can't stay healthy It's been a few years since we've seen the sort of injury that might lead one to conclude that since he came back from Tommy John surgery in 2021 I believe If I'm remembering the let me make sure I think it's 2021 he came back from Tommy John surgery. Yeah Since then he has been on the IL for a positive covid test a Stress fracture in his rib cage a fractured pinky on his left hand A fractured wrist. I believe one of those was from a bicycle accident 2023 he missed about two months with left shoulder inflammation Backspasms in 2024 fractured left rib cage last year. That's a long track record of injuries for a guy who's 37 years old I don't think it's an especially worrisome track record of injuries though like I don't know maybe he has hollow bones, but Unless that's the case it sounds like a lot of bad luck and You just need a little good luck. I think for Chris sale to be really really valuable. So I think he's in skills right there with Logan Webb at the top of this heap Logan Gilbert you mean Logan Gilbert. Yeah, I think if I'm choosing between the two I actually would lean Chris sale just because Between the two he's the one that doesn't have an arm injury in the past two years So I guess that would be the deciding factor, but again like this The older you get I mean the more likely things are to just pop up. I get that aspect of it But man from a skills perspective everything is is still right in line there with Chris sale Let's move on to Max Fried who's first season with the Yankees was arguably the best of his career 286 ERA 110 whip Just under a k per inning Completely changed his pitch mix Through a lot more cutters and sweepers a lot less forcing fastballs He also threw a lot harder I don't exactly know what to do with this because it's from stat cast and I'm not doubting their data It says that his cutter was up over five miles per hour year over year. I just I guess I'll believe it. I mean, but it just it seems weird. That's basically how much his fastball usually is so The movement was very different. I think he started throwing Just kind of a Cut fastball where's the old one was kind of more of a Maybe a gyro slider. Yeah Max Fried is this sort of picture who I feel like You're just going to drive yourself crazy diving into the The individual pitch character is too much because he throws so many and he's changing the mix constantly and That's just not the best way to analyze him for all the changes he made last year his tatline was Pretty much the same that the main reason it was his best year ever is he through 20 or 10 more innings than ever before 20 more innings than in 2024 so that put him firmly in the Sai Young discussion he finished fourth in the voting one 19 games that that always looks good when you can win more games Throw on warnings helps you win more games, but I I mean, I'm is the same pitcher. He was in Atlanta previously. I was out on freed going into last year because I thought Or I suspected anyway that Bad things were going on in his elbow that just hadn't fully come out yet My resolve on that weekend when the Yankees signed him to the biggest contract for a left hand or ever because Obviously they don't do that without fully inspecting things But I still was a little hesitant to draft freed This year though, I mean No hesitation whatsoever like I said. I think I'm the high guy on freed in the entire industry I actually rank up ahead of Hunter Brown because I think there's a clear track record there better control pitcher I have more predictable and so freed is somebody I'd be happy to grab as my ace And I have basically no worries about him He is free to the bottom of this tier for me But that's almost entirely because he won on the aisle with four. I'm strains in 2023 and 2024 That's that's it Yeah, I mean that was one of my next questions is like He was healthy last year, but it's still kind of I guess lingering in the back of your mind that at some point He was dealing with forearm stuff. So it sounds like it Yeah, it affects Chris is ranking a little bit, but Scott it doesn't really bother you I mean he just showed the workload. I guess I should point out that He's probably the worst strikeout pitcher we've mentioned so far Yes, so if you do draft freed is your ace you have to be cognizant of that In a roto league I'm saying and in a points like I feel like the analysis is much simpler for pitchers in a points league Which is why we haven't maybe brought it up as much in this episode Maybe as we go deeper into the position it'll come up more I don't think you need to stress as much about who your ace is in a point Much more forgiving format certainly don't need a ton of strikeouts there So freed makes for an easier call there But in a categories league if he is your ace you're going to have to Play catch up a little and strikeouts I don't think you need to go crazy with it. There are some big strikeout guys available Later in the draft, but you need to be cognizant of it Well, if you want strikeouts There's hunter green on a parenting basis. He is one of the best pitchers in baseball 276 era 0.94 whip just ridiculous strikeout numbers Among starting pitchers with at least 100 innings He was fourth in swinging strike rate sixth in k minus walk rate If you remember in 2024 He actually had much worse control, but limited hard contact well last year Those were flipped where he showed much better control But for some reason a lot more a lot more hard contact The knock here is that he's yet to throw more than 150 innings in a major league season last year It was a groin injury that hampered him, but he does have a history of arm trouble before that and he throws a hundred miles per hour So Chris I want to be in I want to be in so bad But I am scared of hunter green well, and it's worth noting he does not just throw a 100 miles an hour He sits 100 miles 90 average 99.5 miles per hour this is not like oh hunter green can touch 100 it's like no hunter green Is the hardest throwing pitcher in baseball outside of a couple of closures basically But the skills that he showed last year were even more impressive than 2024 even though Both the xe r a and e r a were basically identical because it was the The regression of that hard contact like you said which was my concern for hunter green because that was what propelled his break out in 2024 Is this giant increase in quality of contact allowed or decrease But it came with a lower strike at rate higher walk rate and so it was like well if that regress is It did but the rest of the skill sets got skill set got better in a way that looks sustainable unless he gets hurt And I the worry I have is that the improvement in the skill set came from Jumping from already being arguably the hardest throwing pitcher Among starters to Adding two more miles per hour to that which made everything play up Uh expected well bought on the four seamer two seventy nine last season that is just a bonkers number you really don't see that On four seamer's very often It's just can his arm hold up I tend to think no And I'm I'm less likely I think to draft hunter green than Other pitchers in this range, but there's no denying the skill set is psi young caliber Hmm, but you know Chris fantasy is supposed to be fun and hunter green is fun Yeah, I just oh gosh, I want to do it for it when like I think a year ago his ADP was more like sp 30 maybe Well, I think people were in last year too Yeah, I think it was higher than that. I think it was two years ago Chris where it was about that point I will say probably Yeah, he was pretty late. He was one of two in ADP last year, so I thought it was higher. Yeah, I think Look he said it would be crazy for him to be sp 30 that that the skill set is obviously too strong, but drafting hunter green is my ace Yeah, I definitely have to double dip there. Yeah, that is not a guy that I can just like okay. I'm good at starting pitcher now I feel the same way He's not Like I have him ranked ahead of Cole rig. It's I should probably just switch him because I was last time I was drafting I was waiting for somebody else to take hunter green so I could take Cole rigans um Because I He belongs in this tier, but he is the one in this tier that I don't actually feel comfortable having as my ace because I'm not confident He can stay healthy. He's never shown us he can so I don't you know that first question I was asking can he do it? I can't answer yes to that for hunter green yet. I hope someday I can but I can't yet he can The because you know the question can he do it it being give us the kind of workload we want from an ace Let's go on to Logan web here huge season the most clear workhorse in the game today He led baseball with 207 innings and he's throwing 200 plus three years in a row I mean that is just such an outlier in today's game He put up a career high 224 strikeouts career high 9.7 k per nine. How did he do it? He mixed in more sweepers forcing fastballs and cutters and actually that helped his change up play back up because it had kind of regressed in 2024 the problem here is the whip 1.23 or higher two years in a row in the second half last year Logan webs whip was 134 he allows a lot of hard contact The ground ball rate is actually trending down to so that hard contact is now line drives and fly balls Not completely, but some of that hard contact usually be you know, it was better when it was on the ground But you know if it's line drives and fly balls. It's obviously a little bit worse there for a Logan web So in a categories league there's no way I can use a fourth round pick on Logan web because of the whip concern There's just no way yeah in a point league I would be absolutely fine with it because he's a workhorse He is he is probably the pitcher who in my mind His his value varies the most between formats Logan web I'm I'm kind of stunned he's being drafted this high on average because these are this roto ADP right So I mean ahead of Reagan's In a categories league. I can't justify that And that's not the only one like web for me is 15th Among starting pitchers and and roto leagues and and we have them what here 11th Yeah, that's because it's not just that the whip is high. It's that he's a workhorse He might lead the league in innings as he's he did last year as he's done two of the last three years Leading the majors in innings with a whip that's going to drag you down which will make it count all the more And so your whole draft if you invest in Logan web is going to be Feeding the whip monster trying to bring yourself back to a respectable place And it might be a losing battle and I don't know with the pick this early why you'd want to put yourself in that position I guess you're saying hey, he's durable, but That could change the drop of the hat and again because he's bad and erasio stat that durability is kind of working against him Yeah, would you guys like to hear my very favorite Logan web stat sure His forcing fastball in 2025 had the highest whiff rate of any starting pitcher in baseball wow His 93 mile an hour foreseemer that he almost exclusively throws into strike counts To get strikes strikeouts had a 34% whiff rate. I love that that is so cool I love watching a pitcher pitch backwards and only using your foreseemer in two strike counts to get whiffs is Such a cool way to go about pitching. So that's just a fun thing about Logan web I will mention again like the 80p we're getting an aggregate of six different sources So there is variance among you know the different websites and where you drafted everything his NFBC 80p in February is 63.4 so that is completely different. That's the sixth round. I mean even still then man I the hip that hit that you take it whip. I just Man being trying to be cognizant of whip and I had Logan web in a few spots last year And I feel like all those teams were just either middle of the pack and whip or worse and it was just so so hard to make it up So uh he he's a tough one for me to get over in a categories league Points league totally fine round four round five for Logan web Jacob de Grom Let's talk about him too took some velocity off last year and it worked 297 er8.92 whip over a strike out for inning his most innings since 2019 It was his first time over a hundred innings since 2019 He's not as good as the de Grom from before but he was still really damn good among qualified starting pitchers He ranked third in swing strike rate sixth and came out of swap rate I know he's entering his age 37 season. He's dealt with a lot of injuries I have basically been anti de Grom since I have joined this podcast back in 2020 And now I'm actually kind of okay with it. Is that a mistake? He was weirdly not great in the second half Yeah, he gave up a lot of home runs down the stretch. It was mostly just home runs He had up 13 homers and 19 starts before the all-star break 13 and 11 starts after I think that's probably just noise but You know that there are I think it could be him wearing down like first time pitching that late into a season and forever sure There there are skills declines here from Jacob de Grom and the fastball is Good but not elite anymore. I would say that the slider and change up are still awesome even like the occasional times There was a curveball still a great pitch um, but yeah, I think it's I think the best pitcher in baseball upside is not really there for Jacob de Grom anymore, but I am surprised he's Falling a little bit as much as he is Is this falling? This is about where I rank him. I mean, I have him ahead of web But it's about where I have him ranked two. I have him a little higher. I have him 11th Starting pitcher 46th overall, so I'm a little higher than the 80p But for me it's I just thought there would be more excitement After we got like he's not that much more expensive than he was last year That's good keep it right now Look obviously staying healthy was the biggest hurdle for de Grom and I'm glad he cleared it But he was only 9.6 k per nine. I mean the de Grom everybody remembers was 14 k per nine, you know, so it's it's It's kind of an underwhelming strike outrate for the the the the class of pitchers we're talking about now and not only that I mean you mentioned the second half was underwhelming with the The home runs Eight of his final 10 starts were less than six innings. I think that was on purpose. They were out of it Yeah, but is it gonna be on purpose again? I mean, yeah, I guess they could be out of it. You're right again this year I don't I don't know how good the Rangers will be. I'm sure they you know, they think they're gonna be good It's a possibility. Yeah, I mean if they're out of it. I could see them kind of Limiting his workload a little bit down the stretch definitely could see that it's got I wouldn't push back against the strike outrate I know you know what the k per nine was last year, but a 14% swinging strike rate I mean you know that number is elite and probably should have led to more strikeouts That's fair. Yeah, but it didn't So I guess just answering questions. Chris's question of Why are people not more enthusiastic? Well This strike outrate was five k per nine lower than I think people Were imagining it could be if de grom were to stay healthy again. I guess in a vacuum. Do you guys Draft him are you okay with it in this range like around four five? Mm-hmm It's with hunter green in terms of the discomfort it gives me I would I Have de grom in the same tier, but I would say web. I'm leaving out of the tier. So let's take him out of it But of the pictures we've talked about so far. Let's loop in cold rayons. We haven't talked about so far the two who give me just pepsia Our hunter green and Jacob de grom if if I had to settle for one of them is my ace. I'd probably be Uh Going even harder after starting pitcher thereafter All right, we're gonna wrap there on 80 people pick things back up tomorrow with uh actually your boy. It's got cold rayons So we will start there tomorrow for scott and chris i and frank thanks as always for tuning into fantasy baseball today Please make sure to follow and leave a five so rating on apple or Spotify and we will be back again tomorrow. Bye Caramount podcasts