2026 Cleveland Browns Preview: Roster, Odds & Win Total

[Music] Welcome to the acclaimed podcast, The Deep Died, featuring your esteemed hosts, Andy Monitor and Drew Dinsick, powered by Bet Spurs. Welcome to The Deep Died, the AFC North on tap this week, and we started at the bottom. Ben and Wallace, since we talked about a team that's literally just not really competing this year, but we are starting with the Browns this week, and that's kind of where they sit, despite the fact that if you squint, 2-3-53 on this roster, not too bad. But one, I know some time out, somebody gave us a hard time about the Jets podcast because we started out with, "Oh, gross." Like, they were like, "Hey, wait, really sell me to listen to your project." I'm sorry, it was the Jets. So I'm going to stop you right there. Okay. We're going to be in positivity town when it comes to the Browns, which it'll be healthy to baton some of the things, but I mean, where did they rank 31st or 31st for you? I think they're 31st for me. I have them 27th. Really? Okay. Maybe your positivity town and I are not, but I have to-- Well, I'm overworked by about a point and a half over these guys. I have some positive things to say about it. That said, all the doom and gloom that Drew is spouting, that is for real when you don't have quarterback Sorrel. I mean, honestly, I'd rather be the Browns than the Steelers right now. If I was-- if I'd rather be a Browns fan than a Steelers fan, right? If I'm buying stock in one of those two franchises and I'm expecting to reap returns in terms of in the next five years, we're going to be competitive, I would rather be in a Browns stockholder. Because I feel like this year, you're not set up to win, but you got a lot of the infrastructure all kind of figured out. And if you swing and hit even a singular double on your quarterback choice at the top of next year's draft, then you could compete pretty quickly. I don't know that they figured out the coaching. Certainly, I actually have huge reservations about their direction they went with the coaching. I don't know if there is just a broader curse that is just kind of, or a stink on this franchise that will never ever let them be successful. But there's a lot of players on this team I like. I would be happy to kind of build around. It's just a question of, it's just weird. This is the fifth year of a five year fully guaranteed deal for DeShan Watson. If you ever wondered what it would look like, if you lit $230 million on fire, this is-- What's the dark night? Yeah. The scene from the-- Geez, yeah, I mean-- I did dig in a little. It feels like, you know how I mentioned this on a previous podcast, how some of my football like information just erases during the off season. I got to remember like, oh yeah, this guy's on this team, this coach is here, this person exists. It feels like that happened to me with Watson because he's, I mean, how many games has he played since 2000? He was-- he has-- Yardage Leader in the league in 2000, and then it's been-- 2020, I mean. Yeah, he'll be for 48-- For the-- Not that time, you got to. 4800 yards and was the Yardage Leader. Yards per 10th leader, yards per catch leader in 2020. You paid him $230 million. You have gotten 19 starts and nine wins out of that investment, which is a very, very bad return. It seems that's what it's-- It's very bad. And I did-- I just-- let's do this right now because this is the entire thing. And who knows? Maybe he doesn't play another single snap. They just give it to, you know, they give it to Sanders for the duration. We draft another one. This is the last-- but I did try to find some pros. And some of it, I think, is around the shoulder injury. Like, I went and, like, looked up all the injuries. Because there's a bunch of injuries. And I'll get to that when we get to the cons. But that-- the 2023 shoulder injury, that turned him into like, hey, there's just your shoulder clearly is not good. And you're lacking some mobility. And I think some of the stuff prior to that as well, he had the year off in 2021. For-- I just didn't play that year. I couldn't find an injury for that one. I'm not sure what happened. I think-- I think-- Not sure. So-- and here's the-- it's a very, very qualified pro. If that shoulder injury wasn't like a debilitating one where it's just-- it's done. Because, you know, that happens. The ceiling is still alive for this guy. And the peak was real. And when he was with the Texans, it wasn't that long ago. He's not 40 years old. He's 31 years old. And we just really haven't-- we haven't-- There's no clean pamphlet to convict on. But I will say, like, when I threw this on the skills of justice-- it's funny I mentioned the skills of justice at this game. Cons are still-- so the both Achilles were on the right, the same leg, correct? As far as I know. I-- I stopped keeping track because I just assumed it was over. I'm a little confused and surprised about there being an ongoing competition right now. I think it's over. Yeah. Well, and also just like watching him when he came back and he was playing. Prior to the-- He was-- Yeah. He was holding the ball an incredibly long time. He just didn't look like the same person. And then the final-- maybe most damning con. And I know it's only August 3rd and we got a lot of time left. Kind of looks like dog shit and camp. Oh yeah, no doubt. No, no question. Yeah, no, I think I have no positives here. I don't even think there's like a really good reason to even run him out there week one. I don't know. Here's just-- Let's uh-- I think there's one reason. There's only one reason it is that you saw that ceiling. It was like five years ago and he's still on the roster. And you also said that you got to at least-- And maybe the coaches don't feel this way. But the league was different back then and he was throwing to absolutely in his prime to Deandre Hopkins. I think that's not all there is to it. If you feel like-- I don't think that's what it is. It'll come down to what the coaches decide on that as far as do we think there's still any-- Okay, so uh-- Let me give you uh-- Let me give you a number. Over under two and a half starting quarterbacks for the Browns in 2026 camp in. They're going to play 17 games. Over under two and a half. You think they're going to start three different guests? I mean, that's just how the team works. That's all I know. I mean, they're averaging like what's 3.8? 3 probably close. That's right. That's probably around two and a half. Some years this two, some years this three. Yeah. Some years this four, I guess. But no, I think that the important thing with this Browns team in this offense is or at least like again, like-- fucking unbelievable that Andrew Barry is still employed as the GM of this team, right? Like he survived all this. In the moment, you're like, he's got-- he's done some nice things. He sold high on Miles Garry. He got a nice young player back. Like that's kind of cool. Like he's continues to crush the draft in terms of getting picks. And then, yeah, dude, he traded down and still got to pick the first offensive lineman, which was the clear and obvious need this year. Like there's lots of things that you're like, "God damn, this guy gets it. He's got a pulse. He knows what he's doing." But then in the broader zoom out, you're like, "How in the hell is he still employed?" And how is he going to be the steward or the franchise going forward? Because presumably, they're going to pick their quarterback in next year's draft. Presumably, it's going to be in the top three picks. And that's going to be the bet that ultimately makes her save his long-term home in Cleveland. Because the rest of the pieces on this team look pretty darn good. And I think the way you want to get out of this year, if you're the Cleveland Browns, is develop your investment, your brand new investment at the wide receiver position. Continue to develop your investment at running back and tight end. And figure out, kind of get the information Todd Monkin needs in his hands to run an effective system with the rookie quarterback next year. And then you turn the page and you start fresh. And you hope that you can have a quick turnaround because you're going to have a bunch of decent players entering their primes on team friendly deals all across this roster. So, you know, it's a good vision. I think it will succeed. I think this is a team you will buy Allen at some point. And I think if you kind of come out of camp with the idea that Shooter Sanders gives you the best chance to develop your two rookie wide receivers, then you give him a ball week one. And he might just start all the games. And we're going to save more thoughts on Sanders, because that's how I rated this quarterback for coming up with the fair rating for the Browns. But the, you know, his data from last year was absolute dog shit, but he was also playing behind the worst offensive line in football. I think I had the Browns offensive line rated zero by the time we got to the end of the season because it was so, so bad. So injuries. And they replaced everyone except Kevin Jenkins. I'll see you the only guy to come back. Anyway, whatever the case is, it was super, super bad. It was so bad last year. I don't think we're supposed to talk about him. Seeing, seeing, you know, seeing Strader Sanders behind an offensive line that can give him a motor come of time to operate, maybe he's got more talent than we realize. And you know, I think if you're, if you're a nervous Browns fan about this season, you're nervous that you accidentally win seven games. And that Strader Sanders looks just good enough that you don't make an effort to draft a quarterback at the top of next year's quarterback rich draft, right? Isn't that kind of the worst case scenario here? And that's probably, yeah, that's very much the worst case scenario. So it's a weird, it's a weird transition here for the Browns. And yeah, I, I'm probably going to watch more Browns games this year than I did last year. I'm going to, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued, I think is the right word about this team. I want to get their rating right. And I'm going to need to kind of get a handle on what Monkin plus Shooter Sanders behind this offensive line ends up meaning because yeah, Mike, a lot of other talent on the scene that I'm coming into. Yeah, I don't want to, we said we were going to do this from the beginning. We've gotten worse about it, but we're not going to talk much about 2025. It doesn't bear much on here. I honestly, I think my biggest takeaway is, and maybe we've done this in a few spots, I don't think you upgraded it head coach. I think you probably downgraded DC took a took a step back. The coaching staff has some turnover. We're going to talk about and I have an answer for you as I've looked up some charts. Your average quarterback started per season over the past five seasons for this team is over three. And that includes two seasons where you only started two guys, Baker and Pino, Percent and Watson, but in 2023 it was Watson, Flacco, DRT, TTR, PJ Walker. We had. Oh, and then the funniest part, Jeff Driscoll started, and you know why Jeff Driscoll started in KTN because the playoffs were wrapped up, baby. Flacco Flacco has taken that team to the playoffs. Oh my God. And then last year was obviously Sanders, Dylan Gabriel and more Flacco. And then the year before Watson Winston, DTR and one Bailey Zappie start I'm showing. Bailey Zappie started. Okay. Triple checking. Triple check. So over two and a half is a good bet then. Over two and a half did cash. Mike again, quick thoughts, quick thoughts and the Stefansky firing. It was right away. I guess get a start on it, but at the same time, it's hard to evaluate some of these guys like Monkin who's been, you know, OC on some good teams. Like, hey, you had George's starting lineup and you had a lot of what happened in Baltimore. And it's like, are you, are you the reason? Are you the beneficiary of the beneficiary of that? We got Travis Switzer coming in at OC Mike Ruttenberg at DC. Dom Capers is on this team. Dom Capers. Still in the league doing. Oh, yeah. I thought I saw Ryan Griggs's name somewhere in this organization. Did I? Do you stay Lee? Is Ryan Griggs involved somehow? I will double check that. Oh, yeah. If you don't remember, and this is why I do bring this up, Jim Schwartz just said, Bob, I'm done here. Yeah, well, he was, he was hopeful to, he was going to get, you know, promoted. But in the, in the absence of the promotion, then, then it got weird and he had to move on. Yeah, it did get a little weird and then Tommy Reese. You know what? You know what, though? In Atlanta, he was. What would you say? Would you say Schwartz is demeanorist, generally? A little bit of a red ass? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that fits. Are you a little sad? We didn't see Schwartz get promoted to head coach and then they traded Miles Garrett after Munro. Oh, Jesus Christ. You got a little of that press conference. That would have been fine. Damn. Anyway, yeah. Munkin feels like a lateral move from from Stofanski, in my opinion. I mean, I don't know how huge Stofanski guy, but I'm definitely not a huge Munkin guy. He's a little bit of a lower Jackson or hop guy. I am very much not. I saw that. I saw that move in particular because I spent the most of my time with my ratings full honesty was trying to come up with number for this offensive line because it's like, fuck, man, these pieces like some of them are good, some of them are not, but they're, they're all kind of okay. Like, is this better than average? Is it worse than average? I don't know. The George Warhol part of it is bad. Have you seen his resume? His resume is bad. I coached a year or two everywhere, although he does have an offensive coordinator on his resume for the London monarchs. Yes, NFL Europe, I'm sure he's actually been here before, but his his his left tackle. The last time he coached in Cleveland was. Can you name him? Yeah, Joe, Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas, I'm sure, right? Yeah, I had to be. Yeah. So you was here like 15 years ago, man. Dude, I wish I had all the numbers for the offensive lines he's coached, but let's just go through it because it's this is fun and funny. Rams 96 to 97 offensive line coach that was before the, Mark Dick Vermeel and Mark Mark Mart's era. It was a bad offensive line. He spent four, he had four cups of coffee in Arizona as the offensive line coach. I'm pretty sure he was in the bottom half of the league all four of those years, two years in Dallas before then three years in San Francisco, four years in Cleveland, four years in Tampa, three years in Jacksonville, a year in Houston, and then two years in the Baltimore Ravens. That is a lot of stops for a guy that a lot of people do not know his name and that is because none of those stops were as he given flowers or covered in glory with the performance of the unity coached. So good luck to the offensive line room. Overall, yeah, even his last stop even was he was just an assistant. If you remember, I can't think of the name of the gentleman, but he passed away from like COVID, I think, in Baltimore, I think that's how he got promoted there. So he's on past. I'm going to double check that. I had some notes on this guy because it's the same thing. I'm trying to figure out this offensive line and I'm like, oh, this guy, he's got, he's been in Cleveland before and then I look and it was like, he was hospitalized. Joe D L Sanders was hospitalized and he died August 25th in the news. Yeah, you're right. Gosh, man. Wow. Yeah, you're right. We're up, took over as a bereavement hire. Did you think you'd get this much war hop on the pot? No, no. Anyway, DC stepped down grade, presumably at least shorts, shorts always kind of got exactly if not more out of the ingredients he was given as a defensive coordinator, I thought. Yeah, it was a, and then a bunch of those big turnovers. A lot of guys were promoted from within. Like I said, Dom Kper, they brought in quarterback coach, assistant quarterback coach from Pittsburgh, but a lot of those stuff was just, hey, we lost some guys and everybody moves up a little right there. Let's talk about the changes to the roster. How about that? Yeah, they lost an edge rusher, but they did sign Jared verse in that trade. So I'm assuming that's just kind of a neutral move. It's a slight downgrade, but it's a youth. It's a move in the right direction as far as age goes, right? Yeah, as far as, hey, we're not going to compete. We did scratch our heads when they signed them to that deal. It's like, hey, this is cool for the fans, but like from a roster building standpoint, like that's what we're doing. Yeah, we're going to, we're going to build around a defensive end who's, I mean, amazing and he's the most fun player to watch sometimes, but did you make sense? He had the highest grade of any defensive player I've ever graded last year. That was not very good. He was the defensive player of the year record breaker, sack record breaker with a bullet, and it was warranted. He had an absolutely amazing season, Miles Garrett that is, and he will be lost. His loss will be felt, but it is kind of a, you got on the right timeline, I think, with verse, right? Yeah. Sure. Like when you're presumably chasing a playoff, when you're presumably placing a chasing a playoff spot in 2027 or 2028, he will be in his prime and Miles Garrett will be past his prime. So don't hate it. Kind of hard getting back to the point that you made about how you'd rather be a Cleveland fan than a Pittsburgh fan as far as rebuilds right now. I like that you have some. young players in a bunch of fun spots and, you know, likely they miss on the quarterback, not only because, not only because more, well, there's more misses than hits when it comes to quarterbacks anyway, but it's Cleveland, which is further handicapping that. But I mean, if they accidentally find the right quarterback, could be fun. Let's talk the other, the rest of the guys. I hope they have that one. I hope they have the number one overall pick and there's a quarterback so they can play it so we can bring them. Yes, I really hope it's I hope it's a leaf manning thing where there's two and it's like, oh, what are we going to do? All right, Elton Jenkins Center. Yes, this is probably one of the besides verse coming over in the trade, maybe the most important piece here. He's a proven interior lineman. He needed some help there. He's going to help out on a offensive line that needs some help. We brought in Titus Howard. Yeah, like Titus Howard, like Jenkins. He is a right tackle. You brought in Zion Johnson. Can we do the free agency from the charger? Go. We're spending a lot of time on the whole one. It is what it is guys. Sorry. We're going to. Zion Johnson. He graded kind of okay last year. Is that because the rest of the line was such trash for the charger? So he was not the weak link for the first time. It was very hard actually good. It was very hard to grade actually Titus Howard as well. It was very hard to grade individual players on offensive lines that were very much near the bottom in Houston in Titus Howard and the chargers in Zion Johnson. It made it difficult. So I'm assuming this is okay, but we'll see it because you still have Tevin Jenkins at right now. If you're the one strong week on a weak link system with four weak links and no one's ever attacking you, and you always win your 1v1s, is that actually winning? Is it actually winning? That's the Zion Johnson question. That's the Titus Howard question. Both guys could compensate you or that. So they're paying them. They're paying them like they're good. Quincy Williams, free agent from the Jets. He is the quadrate to the isch male that is the Williams boys. Still helps out a thin spot and a spot that you needed weeks. I've got. Is the quadrate to the isch male the better or the worse? Quadrate was the younger brother. I don't think he was good as right. I think Raheeb was better than quadrate. That's why I thought too. Okay. I just want to make sure I was either both like college guys. Right? The rocket and the missile they were called respectively. One was a Minnesota Vikings. And then other departures besides Garrett's, Vansky Schwartz, Tommy Rees, Wyatt Teller, Devin Bush, Jerome Ford, Cam Thomas, linebacker, Muhammad Diabate, who is in Tennessee. I mean, the Devin Bush thing where I talked about it in the Bears podcast. It did thin things. That's kind of probably why you have. Yeah. None of these are. They're all drops in a bucket compared to the obvious one. They re-signed war. They re-signed Delphits. They re-structured to Sean Watson, which gives them the little cap savings and helps things out. But I think the biggest thing outside of the trade is obviously the draft where they had a bunch of good picks, I thought. And part of it was, as you mentioned, they traded back with Kansas City, moved back and still got Spencer Fano. Fano? Fano? Yeah. Fano? I haven't decided how many days. Spencer Fano, don't you know? Fano? Fano. I think, yeah, the prime, good gamble. Probably going to be the, you know, probably going to be able to start with week one. That's what you wanted. I think he's going to have to. I think he's your left tackle because the rest of the depth for everybody and then another first round pick, KC conception. I mean, DeWon Jones is a fine swing tackle. If you don't have to. You have a little bit of depth. Got another youth, got more youth in the draft, Austin Barber. I guess, all right. No, no major losses. Right. Save one. Save well. Yeah. And Stefansky, I did not like this to Vansky firing. Okay. Give him what you give him and then you expect him to. I think it's one of those things where sometimes you just got to switch. You got to switch Jackie's at some point, but I don't think you upgraded it all on head coach. So I don't think I didn't hate. I didn't hate Stefansky leaving. I didn't love the. I didn't love. Monk and higher. Monk and higher. Yeah. Maybe that, maybe that's what shading my stuff. So all right, real quick, the rest of the draft conception in the late first round. He's your immediate slot guy because again, of the rest of the roster. Same thing with Denzel Boston, who is, you know, he was touted as a first round talent, but some people, he's probably an outside guy for you because of the fact that you need white receivers at this point. They went heavy and offensive line and white receivers in the draft and in for agency because those are things they needed, which makes sense. You go to the grocery store, you buy the groceries you need. They also drafted the Emmanuel McNickle Warren from Toledo, a safety that's going to help fill out the back end. A lot of people thought he was a first rounder. Yeah. Right. Yep. Depth from there, Austin Barber, offensive tackle, another kind of swing tackle behind Howard. Another center from Alabama, Parker Brailsford. Breaking news, they signed a player named Justin Jefferson. Not that guy. Linebacker. Linebacker. Justin Jefferson. Alabama kid. Yeah. And then depth after that, tight ends. And a quarterback in a quarterback in round six or seven, I don't know if he's still in the roster. Tail in green. Yeah. He might think they'd supposedly there, they're working on some tailing green packages. He's his, he's your fourth guy that makes a start if we get to four. Although, well, I don't think Watson starts. I think it's, it's Shudor Gabriel. I think we get one more plate season flaggo in there again. All right. Two thoughts on the draft. You ready? One, they still, they stole a lot of players who were expected to go higher. I know that KC Concepcion was, was the, you know, a lot of people had eyes on him late round one, early round two, they get him Denzel Boston slid into their pocket. EMW slid into their pocket. And the move back and still getting the first tackle was pre-stabbing. Although, I didn't love their compensation for that move back. Right? Like they didn't, like the, the, the cheese gave up very little to move up from nine to six. Maybe you could have held their feet closer to the fire, but that's it. Good draft for the Browns. Good, good roster. You got, you know, what you want to say to your hearing here. Yeah. I think the, the picks they got were, they were able to do some depth, get some depth there in the third and fifth rounds. Yeah. Real, real quick. Another year of Shudor and Kevin's defense key working together. Does that concern you if you were the, if you have eyes of moving on, does it concern you, giving him another year of, you know, kind of the same, the same, you know, two to lich, and maybe actually being a competent enough quarterback to make it hard to move on. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't, I just don't know if the guy has it. Okay. Well, let's talk about that. Unless you had any other offseason thoughts. No, that's a kind of basically it. We'll get into ratings now for this upcoming season where we have the team not winning a ton of games, but maybe being a little more fun than we thought. Okay. So Shudor Sanders, the data would say his number should be around one from last year. It was wildly inefficient. Even the games that he did performed well against bad defenses. It was like pulling teeth. The mistakes that he made were like painfully, painfully telegraphed and should have been coach, you know, coach, you should have been able to coach him up and around those issues. And it just, he didn't seem like he was had the decisiveness of the confidence to really do the job. Now, the limitations were in large part fueled by the fact that the wide receiver room was quite weak, I thought last year. And that the offense of one was the worst in football. So it's like you didn't give him anything to cook with and he cooked to you a turd sandwich like how much how much do you hold that against him? You know, dubious food. He gave him. He gave him. He gave him. We're ingredients and he made dubious food. You try to take a rock in an acorn and make soup out of it. Didn't worry about it. Stone soup. Great children's book, though. I saw how low you are here. And I I gave Monkin a little benefit of the doubt as far as being, I mean, I wasn't sure if you remember earlier talking about him. How much it was him. How much was just having pretty decent rosters. Yeah, so I gave him a little benefit of the doubt. But yeah, I'm penciling in Shadour here. And I have him as like a 1.4. I have him as a 1.1. He is my lowest rated quarterback. And I guess, oh, actually, I was taking a pack. I got a Google reviews of my Arizona number. I can't square my Arizona number with the market. I'm way higher. You got to figure that out. We're set to star. Yeah. 1.1 for Cleveland. If I was higher than-- I mean, if I was lower than market on Cleveland, I probably would have scrutinized my call here a little bit more. But because I'm higher and I'm this low, I'm OK with that. Does that make sense? Yeah, a little bit. I still-- This is the biggest knob we have to turn for the ultimate rating. And I'm as low as I feel like I can conceivably go. Because if he performs worse than a 1.1, he's getting benched. Right. I guess that's not our-- Is this not our problem anymore? Yeah. Yeah. Again, we're trying to model this for week one for now. So we're penciling in Shadour, Monkin. I went with 2.2. It's still one of the lowest numbers on the board for me, obviously. But I didn't go quite as low with you. Gave Monkin a little bit of a bump. Because I think he can at least call plays. I don't know about him as a leader of a team yet. We'll find out. His EPA per play, it's just worth saying out loud. We had a 260. We had a 260, 4 snap sample. And yeah, EPA per play minus 0.186. So you were better off. I think you were better off having-- Throwing the ball into the ground. It's like he's on every dropback. Probably what I had about the same outcome. Composed-- Here's an EPA question for a week. Yeah, good. Because-- and I was doing something. We'll talk about this more next podcast when we get to McCarthy a little more. But I was trying to figure out aggressiveness for coaches. And when I was trying to frame-- because there's different ways to do fourth down decision trees and your percentages. When I was framing it, do you also frame in the kickoff if you are to score? Because that gives-- based on, let's say, you take the field goal, you make the field goal 70% of the time based on whatever long it was. But then you have to kick off. And you're shitty at kickoff coverage. Like that has to be part a small part of the equation. Because I said that has to be built in the same thing on a fourth down. If you score on that fourth down, that's not where seven points. It's worth six plus the chance you make the extra point plus the team's field position on the next stop, right? After you get off. Yeah. I think that sounds good. I'd never really gotten to the weeds on-- I just trust the bots that build those out for me. And I'm like, yeah, that sounds right. But yeah, the kickoff has to play into that, right? Because if your other choices are pumped, go for it, maybe miss it, miss the extra point. All of that is counted in where they're starting with the ball. So the kickoff has to be in there, too. I would go 100% agree. Yeah. OK. I don't know. For some reason, that just didn't sit with me for a second. And then I thought about it for two more minutes. I'm like, yeah, why wouldn't that? OK. Move on to skill positions. Yeah. I'm looking for anything positive real quick on Sanders. Pacific can give him even a motor couple. What's up, man? He's a big misstad. His number was retired at Colorado. That's something. He almost had a positive EPA game against the Titans. It was close. That one was the one I remember well, because I bet the Browns that day. And I was excited as hell. And they lost-- oh, no, I bet the Titans to money line that day. And it was actually a close call, 31, 29. Beat the Raiders. Beat the Steelers. Week 17. That was a weird game, too. Weird. Anyway, 1.1, scope firm to go up. Maybe there's some-- maybe there's some-- oh, yeah, I remember the one I wanted to tell you. You know one other thing about the quarterback competition-- the only thing I've taken away from the quarterback competition so far in Cleveland? Yes. They're wearing GoPro's on their helmets. More than other teams are as well. I think that's awesome. Yeah, what's taken so long? I don't know. That means-- Why isn't everyone wearing this? No, that's cool. As far as actually getting better film studies and working on what they're doing, it's like, well, I see you looking this way. What are you looking at? You can actually see what they're looking at. Dude, you put the all 22 and the quarterback view side-by-side and you're like, OK, so this is what's happening. You're looking over here. You need to be looking over here. You need to-- yeah. I want them smaller. I want them inside the helmets and I want them during the game. Yeah. Hell yes. That's-- I mean, I don't want to-- They can do it for F1. Well, I can't they do it for football. So I don't want that during the broadcast. I kind of want that to be a regular thing, but like on a replay of a cool play where, hey, somebody-- the quarterback made me scrambles for a crazy run or something. Yeah. That would be kind of a cool shot. Did you get anything out of the rest? Did you get anything out of the ref cams during the World Cup? I didn't really-- Those were kind of cool sometimes, but no, not really. OK. I'm going to be careful with the rest. All right, my skill position group is-- Anyway, go ahead. My skill position group is 2.9. OK, that's low. Probably a floor, because at a lot of it is, I have to start rookies at the floor. OK. To rookies essentially starting and then Judy, veteran, good. Maybe that is good as the name carry. Yeah, I'm just going to say, the name is carrying a little more water than the actual production. And at the same time, he had to play with a bad quarterback and a bad offensive line, protecting them. So who knows? Maybe he can have an up year if we fix some of that. And then Harold Fanon, I have really good tight end. He was fine before the-- Blue Vizagroin injury ended his rook year a little early. Queen's turn. So Judkins good. Tough. Judkins, very good. Good running back. Good tight end. Here we go. And I think upside wide receiver room for me. So I'm at 3.4, and I also think this is a floor. Let's get to go up. It really depends on what we see from these young riders receivers during the preseason. KC especially. He's playing the slot role, right? Yeah. They didn't have anything. They didn't produce anything out of the slot role. And last year's offense. And if you can give Sanders some layups, so he's not holding onto the ball for eternity, I'm kind of curious to see if you can get that efficiency number up. Offense line for me. Real quick, Dylan Samson. I like some. The depth isn't great here. So you got that's the other part is I say a bond. Tylan Wallace, Cedric Tillman, Malachite Corley, tomorrow. Yes. Everybody. Everybody. And that's the second way. You're here to return. Everybody in the second way of this was just pretty weak. Offensive line. I went 4.2 for the Browns. I don't know. I don't know. I honestly don't know. Individual rating for me for a lot of these guys is decent. The fact that they've never played together and you have a bad offensive line coach bringing them together, I can't possibly defend a number higher than 5. The intelligentsia that rates offensive lines, thinks this is going to be a bad line. The-- let me give you an example. 4 for 4. 31st offensive line in football. I don't know. The rookie left tackle is a little spooky, but I think he's good player. And I kind of like what you-- I kind of like Jenkins' center. There's not many positive centers in the NFL. Jenkins is one of them. No, Jenkins is like the shining light on this for me. OK. What's your name? I'm at 1.9. 1.9. Oh. So I upweight continuity. So this is your worst offense in football. This is again, it's a floor number. If we see glimmers of, hey, the rookie can play. Jenkins is playing at a high level. But yeah, I don't have terrible grades on the non-Rookie's individually per se, but it's like new offensive line coach that we're not super sure on. And a bunch of guys who didn't play together plus Kevin Jenkins, I'm starting pretty low. Again, I have a pretty heavy penalty for being a rookie that's starting on week one. So this is like, hey, this is just generational. This is just happening. I'm probably a little low here, but I'm fine starting here for now. All right. I sound. And Kevin Jenkins are fine cards in the scheme of things. Green scheme of things. There's not many great cards in football. There's not many good centers, Jenkins. So if that three come together and give, it kind of prevent quick pressures up the middle on Sanders, then we might have something. And if I bump this up to like a four, it adds like two thirds of a win to their win total for me. So it can matter. I have this is the worst offense in football and my number for skill and offensive liner better than yours. So this is your way. My card back in time though. That's true. defense for the rest of the day. this is a top 10 defense on paper. Yeah, so runstop anchored by one of the best young linebackers in football defensive, bringing defensive rookie to your carcin' swessinger, no issues at all with the interior of the D-line as far as runstop goes. Mason Graham looks like a nice young player, not a lot of great young tackles, distinguishing themselves. I thought he was fine last year. I loved the safety support you got in the runstop was good last year. There's just a lot of good run defenders, so I'm at 5.6 for runstop. Pass rushes down to six and a half after, you know, a number like eight last year for me, even though I like verse perfectly well. He is not a 99 out of 100. That miles gear was not hugely into some of the other players besides verse in the past rush here. So I might end up turning the snob down, don't know what the might root and berg effect is going to be. How much the past rush was really fueled by what shorts wanted to do and how he was pushing those buttons. Coverage for me is a 5.2. I like Denzel Ward. I think he's fairly compensated. I didn't think the contract was outrageous. And if he's your CV one and he's healthy, then this is going to be a difficult unit to pass on. Tyson Campbell and Miles Hardner fine players, not great, but they're fine. And I like the safety duo. My coverage number has been written in very, very light pencil. I'm a little higher now 5.4, but I do like a lot of these guys. The Tyson Campbell thing is probably a plus. He's a good personnel grade across the board. I think they play well a little higher and run stop. In fact, I'm higher across defense. And you have a six point run stop. That is maybe written in lighter pencil with the Malik Collins stuff. I got to make sure that he's not 100% that matters in this. I'm not going to come down, but at the same time, I'm like, I'll leave it here. I'll wait to see where he ends up in a couple of weeks. Then I'll make my adjustments if he's not playing week one. But Quincy Williams, Carson Sreshinger, like you mentioned Mason Graham, he's a big deal. Past rush. I'm a little higher new, but pretty close. I'm at 6.6. You're at 6.5. I have right. Graham, McWire is like decent enough playing slash rotational pieces. I think it's a good thing to do. It's a good thing to do. you could win those four games I wouldn't be shocked. Brutal way to start the season really. Those back-to-back games in Florida. Yuk. Couple of sun shans on the chart there. It's gonna be warm. Right away. Quarterbacks to can play on the road. Backed back roadies in general to start the season over the time over the long arc of the NFL have not portunded, that have not been a portend of success. Portanded success. I don't know what the right way I'm looking for is they have not led to especially successful. Starts to the season so realistically you need to make some hay and your two home games week three and week four if you're going to get your your season on track. I kind of like the idea back in the at home catching points against Caroline and Pittsburgh if we're getting honest ever being honest. Their final two preseason games aren't home at least. But it could be the bill it's the bills and the Patriots possibly fine tuning things against your ass a little so easy travel schedule. Easy travel other than the two Florida strips in the other part of the season. Neutralish rest overall. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Nothing. This is not a this is not a spectacular schedule I guess. What's I guess what unlocks should or Sanders to being like a league average quarterback and this offense being. Being able to you know kind of like just like we wake up week six in this we're like God man can you believe we have the browser lead you know as a neutral rating. There is there a peg there is zero like what what gets them there. It's I mean a lot of it is the surrounding cast like. The offensive line has to gel immediately. The rookie receivers have to contribute, if not be above average. But so much more of it is just his growth from year one to year two. He has to be a way better decision maker. He can't be making some of the just there were flashes of like, hey, that was a really fun play. He made a great play there. But then for every one of those, there were three like, oh, you can't take a 17 yard sack here. And you just can't throw that interception. And he's just too much backyard ball, too much of like, honestly, or and I don't want to put him in this conversation because I don't know that he has the same skill level, but it does kind of remind me of times of Caleb Williams first year. It's like, oh, you're getting sacked a lot and you're making some stupid plays. But at the same time, I can see a little bit here. It's like that, but much, much, much less of the, I can see it a little bit here. So I think it's kind of come down to the, can the coaches get him making some better decisions? Yeah. The one thing, yeah, that's reasonable. The one thing that I guess the first seven weeks of the season, as I look at these teams, they're playing the only top 10 defense I have them facing is Baltimore. And Baltimore is 10th. That is actually a surprisingly soft schedule in terms of opposing defenses. The only top five defense they play all season is Houston. Baltimore, twice obviously because they're in the division Houston once. I have Pittsburgh is the 12 best defense. Maybe that surprises people, I guess, but there's not a lot of good defenses on here, which means there's absolutely scope for should or looking like we got to give them a two or a three. Just a good question from Jay. How's there implied win 6.5 with their only favored twice? And you just, if you start looking at every line as a money line, rather, and, you know, just if you're a 1.5 point dog, that's like 48% of a win. You got two of those. That's a win. You know, you got a two and a half. You're, you're supposed to win that like what 45% of the time? Couple of those. That's a win. Yeah. You know, the Vegas, you're supposed to win that like 54 or 55% of the time. There's just enough of those. And then you, you add in all the other. Hey, even, I mean, even as a touchdown dog, what do you win? 20% of the time. Uh, well, yeah, the, is there one where there are some six and a half points? Dogs when they're hosting Baltimore, that's a 30% probability in terms of the money. Yeah, add up all those little, it's, it's like stacking pennies because yeah, there's not one of those where, hey, this is a game you win 80% of the time. Yeah. Um, on average with this schedule, which is actually I, when we start, when we pivoted to schedule, I kind of implied it was a tough schedule. I think I was just being tricked by the amount of times that there's, there a dog. This is actually a pretty easy schedule. Just a bad. Yeah. Yeah, that's the moral reflection of the market number on this team is really, really low. Um, you're even higher than the market number. Did you know that? I am. Um, I don't know. I don't know about, uh, I don't know how would out of approach to these guys. I kind of feel like they're going to be a bet on for me a lot of the season. And I'm going to be the one that feels like an idiot for, for backing this, uh, this dog of a team in a franchise, um, God, dude, even week one eight points. Jax defense scare you at all. Yeah. It's improving. Did that have a lot of crack that game that came, that came feels like 27, 23, 27, 20, eight points is too many. I have the Jags as a neutral defense. Maybe a little low. Have the Jags as a slightly below neutral defense. Hey, here's a fun, here's a fun exercise. I can look at my number for that game. I have to start thinking about we going more seriously. I have, I have all 18 tabs built out and ready to go. So in that game, I would, on my fair is 6.3. I like the eight points. I'm taking the, I got to fill in that part yet. I got to get that part ready, I guess. I'm taking the, I'm taking the, taking the Browns week one. It looks like I'm a plus, I'm a 6.3. So I'm on the other side of seven. So I like to eat a lot. I wouldn't be definitely wouldn't be it. That's a, that's a Wong T's just on for Jax. Jax. Oh, yeah. Home game. Oh boy. Anybody, a Buster week one. Oh God. When, when on the schedule, would you take the Browns and survive? I'd be, I would not. You would not miss unless they played in Christmas somehow. And I had to, but they don't. They only have one prime time game. This was pointed out in the chat. They are about 20 to 25 to one to win the division. They're 80 to 100 when the, the conference 200 to one to win the Super Bowl. Those aren't bets. You could get Jared verse player defensive player of the year for 20 to 25. If you think he breaks havoc here, conception is like 30 to one to be offensive rookie of the year. If you think a slot receiver has a shot at that by just getting a million balls thrown his way because that might be the way that the offense goes. I doubt Monkin is some more than we're talking about for coach of the year. He fits one part of the role is like, Hey, we have incredibly low expectations. And if you won 10 games, we'd have to talk about you. The schedule soft, which is part two, part three is I just don't know that you have the quarterback to actually make that happen. Boom. I think they're still. It's probably eight wins and eight win Browns team. And this is the playoffs. Monkin's not getting it. Is he? No. And then this, I mean, the same thing kind of goes for MVO, O P O I C P O I D Roy. There's really not anyone to talk about the win total five and a half, six and a half depending kind of juicy to the over five and a half, juicy to the under six and a half. I'm right there. I'm not making any bets. I'm not making bets on the all I'm not really interested in backing this team preseason right now. I don't have anything that's giving me excited to try to offensive value. But as you mentioned, maybe a team we're backing is a big dog because this defense is still very good. And it's going to follow that same pattern we saw from this team and Steelers teams have the last few years where, oh man, this team stinks. But they could drag you down in the mud and they can get you in a game where the first person to score 17 points has a damn good chance of winning. And you just got to get a turnover here, a turnover there, a missed kick, special teams gaff. And suddenly you're writing a game with a team that's clearly a touchdown better than you because your defense is keeping you in it. And it'll be an interesting spot for them match up wise, I think once in a while. I like that call. They have a joint practice in their preseason with the Buffalo Bills. I'm excited to hear how that goes. So that game won't have many usually you do joint practice and then you don't play anybody. Unless it's one of the ones where the Bills are getting kicked in or the Browns are getting out of the team kicked in practice. And then the other team comes to the game with a chip on their shoulder, a mission, a mission not accomplished. That's my favorite preseason angle by far, you know, when there's like three joint practices and one team wins all three. And then there then, you know, the good players are given the night off of the preseason game and the other team as an extra grind. And then they beat the tar out of some guys. I love those. Anyway, man, as we sit here right now, I'm not going to back the Browns in any type of ceiling outcome. They don't have a good enough offense and a good enough quarterback. As you mentioned, a good enough coach to hit a surprise ceiling that we're not seeing. They do have a high floor with the defense being top 10 and being young. I think this is a team that I will bet on at least seven times the season, maybe more starting week one. I'm going to take the eight points against the jacks. That's too many points. I'm sorry. That's total price. Too high to what do you think that total is? I'd have to check 40. 44, 46. Is that your guess? Or are you looking at? I have no idea. You don't have that. Scraper built in. I'm looking at a 40 and a half. Oh, never mind. Never mind. 40 and a half. My fair number on that total is actually, sorry, man, it's probably around 40. I got too many tabs. If I could clean my shit up, my total is 42.2. So I would actually take the over there. So the Browns need to score 17 points in that game to cover an eight to cover eight. I've been there. Can they do it? Tune in week one. And it fell on Fox. Actually, that's a serious game, bro. All right, man. Good job on the round. So I was, I thought we were, I thought we were fair and somewhat optimistic. So good job. I'm not with fair. Yeah, absolutely. We will not be in the next one. We'll see you over there if you want to watch us talk. This, I run back the 2005 Packers. Yeah, if you're getting, if the Packers, Mike McCarty, Aaron Rogers, Reunion is giving you the feels, go ahead and skip the next podcast. I'm going to be a little positive. I'm trying to.