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Speaker 6Visit T-Mobile.com. Welcome to the Fantasy Baseball Today podcast from CBS Sports. And first pitch, rushing. Deep left. Field. This is way back. Walk the walk. Got a fantasy question? Email fantasybaseball at cbsi.com. Get ready to win your league. Where fantasy becomes reality.
Speaker 1Now, here's Frank, Scott, and Chris. It's time for Position Recaps, and up first is Catcher. Welcome in to Fantasy Baseball Today on Tuesday, October 20th. I am Frank Sample, joined by Scott White and Chris Towers. Today on the show, it's our Catcher Recap. We'll look back at preseason ADP. Who finished top 12 at the position? We will wrap up with a very early look at some catcher rankings for 2027. It was a good catcher season. Chris, I was reading your catcher review slash early preview for next season. You pointed out that we had nine catchers provide 20 or more dollars on the Fangraphs Player Rater. Just four catchers did that in 2025. Similar outcome in head-to-head points leagues. We had seven catchers score 400 or more fantasy points. Just four in 2025. And seems to be set up nicely for next season. We do, unfortunately, lose Ben Rice with catcher eligibility. But lots of players, I would say, in their prime, about to enter their prime, and even more young prospects on the way. So, I feel good about Catcher. How about you guys?
Speaker 7Yeah, it's a pretty young and pretty interesting position. Now, the thing that you always have to keep in mind with Catcher, is late starts and short peaks tends to be the way catchers age, historically. It takes them longer to develop. They tend to fall off quicker than at other positions. It's not always true. JT Romuto was really good until well into his 30s. But generally speaking, catchers don't age the same as everyone else. And so, this is probably a position that historically just has a lot more volatility from one year to the next than any other hitter position. I think they tend. They tend to fall off quicker than any other hitter position. I think they tend to operate a lot more like pitchers. Remember, not that long ago, Logan Ohapi was one of the more interesting, exciting young catchers. Did he have a 30th homer season at one point? He got very close. And so, that's just a reminder that this is a weird position where things go wrong very quickly. But things look very, very good right now.
Speaker 8He had 14 home runs in 51 games. Oh, is that it? Yeah, he got to 20 the next year, but never got higher than that. He showed 30 homer power. Let's say Logan Ohapi did seem to be trending up.
Speaker 7Memory's a fickle thing. I hear you.
Speaker 8Yeah, I think there's a lot of validity to that. It's a position with a lot of attrition. It's a difficult one on the body and on the mind. And so, you do have players with short peaks. I mean, Adley Rush. Rushman might fall into that. I'm not ready to declare a final verdict on him, but he was an all-world prospect, lived up to it more or less right away, and has collapsed here during what should be the prime of his career. It seems like three straight years of considerably disappointing. But having said that, catcher is in a really good spot right now. The year of the catcher was as advertised. And I think it's still trending up. I've been writing my own position-by-position articles, just my initial rankings, basically releasing them in article form at each position. 20 deep, I've gone around the infield plus catcher. Catcher looks the second deepest to me. I mean, if you play in a one-catcher league, which the majority of people listening do, it still looks ridiculously deep. It's hard to mess it up. If the one you pick is wrong, and you're going on draft day, OK, you'll have like a half-dozen others to pivot to, probably.
Speaker 1And before we can look forward, we do have to look back. We have to know where we've been to know where we can go. And we will do that right now. Let's take a look back at preseason catcher ADP, according to Fantasy Pros. And the number one catcher drafted, if you remember, Cal Raleigh with an ADP of 14.6, fought by William Contreras. Ben Rice, again, no longer has catcher eligibility, but he did cash in on the breakout this year. The number four catcher drafted was Shea Langeleers, then Hunter Goodman, Salvador Perez, Will Smith, Drake Baldwin, Agustin Ramirez. Remember that one? That was fun. Yiner Diaz, Adley Rutschman, and Ivan Herrera, whose ADP was right at 176. He was DH only to start the year, but he did gain catcher eligibility pretty early on in the season. So according to the FanGraph's player rater, seven of these 12 actually finished inside of the top 12. So that's actually a pretty good turnout there. Yeah, the biggest bust at the position, no doubt. I mean, it was Cal Raleigh who hit just 182. He went from 60 home runs all the way down to just 23 this past season. The OPS from 948 down to 664. He suffered the oblique strain in late April. He went on the IL in mid-May due to that injury. Very easily could have wrecked the season. And then we find out right after the season that he had shoulder surgery for an AC joint in his left shoulder. So definitely could have been affecting his season. Although he actually finished pretty strong, Cal Raleigh did. And low-key, Agustin Ramirez was a pretty big bust pick as well. Cal Raleigh was the top of the top, but Agustin Ramirez was around a top 100 pick, and he was terrible.
Speaker 7Yeah, I mean, because Raleigh at least was pretty good in the second half. I think it was mostly August. I think he had nine homers in August, only three in September. So I got the numbers here.
Speaker 8Final 32 games for Cal Raleigh. He hit 256 with 10 homers and a 935 OPS. I don't know if we're going. I don't know if we're going fully into Cal Raleigh yet, but there are some other explanations going on there beyond just the shoulder surgery he ended up having. Do we want to get into that now? Yeah, you can do it. Yeah. Okay. So there were some mechanical issues going on from the beginning. And that turnaround, those final 32 games where it basically looked like Cal Raleigh again, had to do with him raising his hands to catch up to elevated fastballs. It was a change spearheaded. By Edgar Martinez, who is the Mariners director of hitting strategy, obviously a really good hitter himself. And then he took off at the end. So my initial inclination was like, I'm not going to do the Cal Raleigh thing again next year. I mean, he's so strike. He's always been strikeout prone. And so to see him crash this hard isn't the biggest shock ever. The timing of it is shocking because it was after a historic all-timer season for a catcher. But if you had told me, you know, three years ago, Cal Raleigh was going to be somebody who crashed around age 30, I wouldn't have been shocked by it. But, you know, seeing how much he turned things around and everything that went into that turnaround and finding out he was dealing with shoulder issues. I'm not saying he's going to be a 60 homer guy next year, but I think he can get back to being the Cal Raleigh from previous years. 230 hitting 30 homer guy and well worth starting. In any fantasy league.
Speaker 7Yeah, it gives me like very not to the same degree, but like JT Romuto in 2021, if you can remember back, that was his age 30 season. He goes 17 homers, 13 steals. He had had 2020 was a short season. He was very good. But 2021, he has this big strikeout rate jump. The power's way down. And I think there was definitely some we might be at the end for JT Romuto. And then he bounced back with a 2020 season. his strikeout rate down. raleigh was worse um and he was starting from a higher peak and so there's a lot that went wrong it was very disappointing and all that i still think he's a top 10 catcher you know we'll get into the specific rankings later but i i can't bring myself to move him down below like there's i think like a clear top seven or so at the position i might call the top eight he might belong in there i'm not sure that the last couple of guys are that much better than him but either way yeah i can't justify putting him below like samuel pasayo who i like yeah or carter jensen who i like but who have pretty obvious flaws in their game and i don't think the same upside as
Speaker 1cal raleigh it's funny you say that you think there's a clear top seven and maybe an eight with him included because i was just like messing around earlier and just kind of like ranked my top 12 catchers as well and i i wound up with cal raleigh you a eight but i wanted to put him higher just based on the way he finished the season i i i could
Speaker 7justify moving him as high as fifth i think yeah
Speaker 1i i thought about it as well and still could i mean lots to happen in the offseason here but if you look at the underlying numbers those final 32 games 92.9 average ev 19 barrel rate and the expected stats like all the stack cast stuff from those final 32 games was basically in line with his 2025 so was he just finally healthy along with those mechanical adjustments i mean he still had shoulder surgery so i want to wait to make sure that he's healthy you know in spring training whenever we you know get that but uh yeah i was pretty encouraged by the way uh cal
Speaker 7raleigh finished the season there whereas augustine ramirez i do not really have anything positive to take away from his 2026 season he was not very good at triple a i'm not sure the marlins view him as a catcher at all anymore and i'm not sure he's good enough to be a dh even for the marlins so i'm i'm real worried i think he probably still deserves to be drafted as a number two catcher uh but i don't think he's even in the discussion for a one catcher leave my initial rankings have
Speaker 8him only 28th so i don't think i could do augustine ramirez as a second catcher yeah like unless we get into spring training and it's like oh yeah this is going to be our primary dh okay i might have to revisit it some of that ranking is like uncertainty over the role but yeah there there wasn't much statistically to to uh to reassure you about augustine ramirez in 2026 and in hindsight i
Speaker 1know it's a lot easier to say now but if you look at his 2025 he actually was a below average hitter 91 wrc plus and he was an awful defender so i mean those two things in conjunction but he was a top prospect and he had awesome power speed numbers in the minors and he flashed some of that in the major so i understand why we were all excited about him the royal we see industry being excited about augustine ramirez but uh yeah just when you think about it i guess uh from more of a macro perspective just like below average hitter terrible defender like yeah i guess it's pretty easy to explain that one uh biggest breakout at the position ben rice i guess but no longer has catcher eligibility i think you have a lot of options here drake baldwin gabriel moreno dylan dingler we're going to talk about all those guys more in depth when we get into the top 12 they all finish inside the top 12 i guess if you had to choose one um based on where they start like probably moreno his adp was outside the top 200 and he finished as a top five catcher so yeah was he drafted behind dingler i let's i will pull that up but i think he was it was pretty he was
Speaker 7better than dingler yeah
Speaker 1he
Speaker 7did i would guess dingler was drafted behind him um without having it in front of me what
Speaker 8based on my own expect like gabriel always liked i had him as a breakout candidate for this year um but dingler i had you know just just just my own perception of these players dingler went a lot further to exceeding i just
Speaker 7i think part part of it for me is just moreno was good the whole season like early on he didn't hit for much power but he still had a 301 batting average in the first half and then the power came in a big way in the second half he missed a lot of staff right dingler was incredible for like three and a half months and was basically unusable for the final two months of the season so that that's the difference for me is just moreno did miss some time he ended up with about actually only about 50 60 fewer plate appearances than dingler which is a smaller gap than i would have expected moreno had no bleak
Speaker 1in april he missed about two weeks but that's really the only time that's the only time he missed he typically has missed a lot of time in his career that was part of the breakout for moreno is that he just finally stayed healthy and you know he's managed to improve that launch angle two years in a row so doing that has has helped gabriel moreno's breakout but yeah dylan dingler was coming from a lower point pre-season adp was 257 for him uh he finished as a top five or top six catcher and then gabriel moreno at 216 and he finished in the top five as well so uh dingler interesting one unusable final two months he also suffered a thumb injury in early august i think it was or july and then um i think that could have contributed to him being bad and
Speaker 7never stopped playing or really they rode him hard or it could have
Speaker 1just been regression right like there's no way to know for sure i lean towards the injury but you know maybe it was just him coming back down to earth a little bit uh dylan dingler part of
Speaker 8what i find reassuring with dylan dingler is he was you know even though i didn't buy into it he was a good hitter in 2025 as well and the underlying numbers were even better than the top line numbers uh so i didn't see it coming people did see it coming and you know as bad as the last two months were for dingler the overall stat line is really strong 91 rbi from a catcher's great he was yeah heard at the position yeah 27 homers
Speaker 191 rbi and unlike
Speaker 8augustine ramirez there are no job security questions here because he is a i mean top of the line defender
Speaker 7i will say they do have like a really good hitting backup catcher i think um eduardo valencia eduardo valencia could be really good and they used him at dh a bunch down the stretch they also have uh i think two different catcher prospects of note but i think they both had down seasons um i know hoseway i don't hoseway
Speaker 1bersenio i think is pretty close i think he can also play first base yeah i don't think he's viewed as a catcher
Speaker 8yeah i don't i don't think he's a catcher long term
Speaker 7but i bring that up all to say that dingler would probably benefit from some more dh duties just in terms of keeping him in the game yeah i think he's a catcher long term but he is like arguably the best defensive catcher in baseball yeah that's a tough tough needle to
Speaker 1thread for them he actually did dh quite a bit this year too but i mean to your point he's so good defensively that you hit 30 games at dh that that's a good amount for a catcher so obviously that part helps for fantasy too um but yeah i i think his playing time is very much cemented for the reasons you guys mentioned the sleeper at the position sleeper breakout semantics but uh someone completely slept on i don't even know how we would have seen this coming but liam hicks it's like nobody saw this coming he was the ultimate sleeper and he obviously had a massive season and finished as a top 10 catcher this year again we will get to all these names a little bit later on uh big thanks to everyone here watching live or on demand we appreciate it make sure to hit that like button and you might have saw a big smile on my face while these guys were talking i thought you were gonna hit the button i thought yeah i do appreciate everything you guys were saying and obviously enjoyed that but yeah camadero just hit a laser two run home run it looks like the rays are i mean what we're they're six out away six outs away from world series appearance here so um can we
Speaker 7can we get a good world series this has been such a non-compelling playoffs i feel like yeah well
Speaker 1i thought if you were comparing it to last like last year i would bet we're not
Speaker 8gonna get as good world series i'm not expecting
Speaker 7that but like man i feel like this has been like look there have been upsets and but there has just been not a lot of uh a lot of really compelling oh no i can't look away stuff in this playoff so i would like uh a really stressful world series please
Speaker 1i'm sure brewers and or race fans would would not
Speaker 7agree with that no neither team has ever won so the brewers no they haven't they've never won right never won they made it once before this i think it's like 44
Speaker 1two years 45 years something like that 44 something like that yeah so um yeah would be would be pretty awesome here potentially brewers and rays well we'll update you that as it goes on here but let's take that break and yeah you'll know by the time you're listening to this um and when we return the top 12 catchers from this past season we'll do that right after this a beautifully designed
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Speaker 1Download today. Welcome back in Fantasy Baseball Today, recapping the top 12 catchers from this past season. This is where they finished on the Fangraphs Player Rater, and they measure this based on 5x5 Roto categories leagues. I will also mention, you know, total fantasy points and fantasy points per game. We also have some pretty sweet graphics we'll throw up for these position recaps, so thank you to Debo for helping us out with that. But the number one catcher was actually Ben Rice. I'm skipping over him. We'll talk about him in first base. So the actual number one catcher is Hunter Goodman from this past season. Provided $31.50 of value in 12-team, two catcher leagues, sixth among catchers in total fantasy points, three fantasy points per game. That was tied for third at the position, so he does take a little bit of a hit in a points league. He strikes out a lot. Some were skeptical that he could repeat, but he did that. And then some. He upped his home run total from 31 to 41. Really good counting stats. He plays a bunch because he gets a lot of DH opportunities. There were some sacrifices here. The batting average came down. The strikeouts went up for him chasing some more power. But Scott, it seems like Hunter Goodman is settling in here as an elite fantasy producer, especially on the power side of things. The only risk that I see is potential trade away from the Rockies. I don't know that would completely sink him. His home road numbers, in his career, are not that far off. But the strikeouts, getting up over 30%, I don't love that part of it. But he is an elite catcher
Speaker 8at this point. Up over 31%. It was 26% last year, so that's quite a jump. But it's hard to complain too much about a guy who goes from hitting 30 homers to 40 homers. You'll take that trade off. It just is a bigger question. The sustainability question becomes even bigger the more a guy strikes out. And he doesn't. He does take a hit in points leagues. I do rank Goodman one for Roto next year, but five for points. Part of that's just there's such a cluster there at the top of the position. But that does show the damage done by the strikeouts from an actual production standpoint, not to mention a assurance standpoint that he can repeat. Maybe he gets traded at some point in the not too distant future. He's on a bad team, so that's. It's possible, but I wouldn't stress about it too much. It's less likely. It's more likely not to happen than to happen next year. And even if it does, like you said, I feel like he'd be one of the best power hitters at the position regardless.
Speaker 1Chris, I do think that there is potentially a floor here that we haven't seen just because he does chase a lot out of the strike zone and he does whiff quite a bit as well. I'm not saying that I would expect it, but I'm saying if we're just talking ranges of outcomes. I think that he can go out and hit another 40 home runs. I think the downside is maybe something we haven't seen before where he hits like 220 with 20 to 25 home runs and it's just like a big letdown. Again, I'm not expecting that, but just given how much he chases and whiffs, I think it's like within his range of outcomes.
Speaker 7Certainly, and because he is a flyball-oriented player with some contact skills, there's just pretty weak batting average skills here. Playing half his game is a good thing. I think that he's going to hit a lot of pop-ups and I think that's always going to drag the BABIP down. So I think there is a low batting average floor and you can't count on a guy to hit 41 homers every year. I would take the under next season. I think that's going to be a good thing. But I think 31 is obviously not the floor, but a reasonable lower end estimate. I'm not saying that's where I'd set my expectations. So all things considered, he is also my number one catcher. It's a very slim margin across the board, but I would take him as the top option in Roto. Just because nobody else comes close to giving you that kind of power. At the catcher position. I mean, beyond Ben Rice, he was 14 clear of the next guy.
Speaker 1Yeah. I think if Langelier stays healthy for his usual 130 games, I don't think he could get to 40, but I do think he can get like 30 to 35 if everything works out for Langelier.
Speaker 8Like we were just saying, Cal Raleigh is a possibility to bounce back to that, but you're up with the quality available at the top of this position. You're not drafting Raleigh expecting
Speaker 1that. Yeah. So my number one catcher ranked for next season is actually the guy who finished number two this past season. And I think it just comes down to how you want to build your team. I think it's a coin flip between the two, but the number two catcher was Drake Baldwin, who provided $28.6 of value in Roto this past season. Fourth in total fantasy points at the position. Three fantasy points per game was tied for third. He took another step forward. And honestly, I feel like it could have been a massive season if not for an oblique injury that forced him to miss a month of the year. But before the injury, man, it looked like it was happening. 303 batting average, 13 homers, 931 OPS in 48 games before he got hurt. He did more damage on balls and play. Also a massive playing time standout, 61 games at DH this past season. Chris, I think there is another level here for Drake Baldwin, especially like a slight tweak to get more pulled fly balls. I feel like we can get a 280, 25 to 30 home run season here out of him. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 7he had one. He's probably the best bet to lead the position in playing time next season, whether you want to say games, plate appearances. I believe he started every single game for the Braves when he was healthy. That's just a huge edge. Like you mentioned, he came pretty close to being a 50-50 DH. And honestly, the defensive numbers are weak enough that that's probably not a bad thing for the Braves. He's a very good hitter. And so all in all, I don't think there's very much to dislike about his skill set. Maybe he's not super maximized for power, but any flaws you see in his skill set or in his season mostly come down to just, I think it was right after he came back from the oblique injury, he was pretty bad. Let me tell you how bad. And he did not go on a rehab assignment. He just came right back.
Speaker 8So the 12 games back, directly back from the injury. This is basically his June split. 12 games, he went three for 48 and struck out 22 times in 50 plate appearances. And then he was basically fine after that.
Speaker 7289 or better in every other month of the season.
Speaker 8Yeah. He is the best pure hitter at the position, Drake Baldwin, I would say. So I don't think we've seen his best yet. I think we were, like you were saying, Frank, we were trending toward that before the oblique injury. He also struggled. He was in the playoffs, so you can't really blame that on the oblique injury. Maybe you could play it meant to facing a lot of good playoff caliber pitching, but.
Speaker 7It was seven games or whatever.
Speaker 8Yeah. But so much red on that stack has Paige, apart from that stretch with the fresh off the oblique injury, does not have any strikeout issues to speak of. Hits the ball very hard. And I don't blame you for putting Baldwin ahead of Goodman next year. But in points leagues, I have him number one and it wouldn't surprise me even if even if Goodman hit another 35 plus homers, if, if Baldwin turned in a better season, factoring in the difference in batting average and everything else.
Speaker 1All right. The number three catcher this past season was Gabriel Moreno. Again, finally stayed healthy and he had the breakout. He preside provided $27.1 of value in Roto. He was tied for fourth in total fantasy points and 3.2 fantasy points per game was second at the position. He does not strike out very much, makes a lot of contact, hits the ball hard. So obviously those are all things that play very well in a points league. He actually won the National League batting title by hitting 311, 874 OPS led all catchers this past season. I love that he's maintained the improved launch angle two years in a row, but he did overperform his expected stats. And especially in the second half, when he really took off, he, he overperformed quite a bit. Scott, it'll be interesting to see where the ADP kind of winds up here on, on Gabriel Moreno. I like him a lot. The breakout came through. I think he's a legitimate, good hitter. He's dealt with a lot of injuries, so you need him to stay on the field, but I just, I hope that the drafting public doesn't overvalue his breakout season too much.
Speaker 8Yeah, I was careful not to do that in my rankings for next year. Not so much because I don't buy the breakout. I think this is basically the sort of hitter he's always been. And we just haven't gotten to that. a chance to see it play out fully because of all the injuries, and then the improved launch ankle health that started in 2025 and continued in 2026. He was able to deliver some pretty good power numbers because of it. I basically buy that. What I don't buy is him staying healthy for 130 games again because he averaged 97 the previous three years. His high for games played prior to this 130-game season was 111. So predicting injury, people have a little too much confidence in their ability to do that, and I don't want to fall into the same trap, but he didn't even stay healthy this past season. He had that IL stint early on. So I just think there's a documented history, basically an unblemished history of him being blemished at some point, and I suspect that'll remain a frustration for Gabriel Marino.
Speaker 7Yeah, I also just think you bet on a little regression. He's not quite as good as he was last season. I don't think he goes all the way back to like a sub-800 OPS necessarily, but maybe more of a low 800s OPS, 285 hitter. I think he's a good hitter, but it's more likely we saw his career season in 2026 than that he gets better, certainly.
Speaker 1Yeah, so I just wrote down, you know, 285. 80 to 290, 15-ish home runs, 70 runs, 80 RPI, a handful of steals. I think that's pretty fair, and I think I have him at like six or, yeah, I have him ranked sixth at the position, so that's fine. I just hope that he's not, you know, drafted as like a top three or four catcher like he finished this past season. But yeah, let's move on to the number four catcher here, and that was William Contreras, who provided 25.7, a value in Roto. He was third in total fantasy points, 2.9 fantasy points per game, was tied for fifth at the position. He's kind of settled in the past two years as a mid-700s OPS bat, more of an accumulator, but he has posted 640-plus plate appearances three years in a row, so he seems like a lock to get you that massive playing time. He dropped the ground ball rate this year. He improved the launch angle. He improved the pulled air rate. I actually feel like that should have resulted in more power than it did, for William Contreras. Chris, I think he's rock solid. I think he's as safe as they come at the catcher position. And if you buy into the contract year thing, he's entering a contract year, so.
Speaker 7Yeah, and I think he is, just like there's no such thing as a safe pitcher, there's probably no such thing as a safe catcher, but he is the closest thing we have to that. He is, you know, maybe not the superstar we thought he was going to emerge as, but he's just rock solid. And, you know, actually, you only got one steal from him this year. That's kind of disappointing. He was usually good for six to nine each of the previous three years, so maybe there could be a little regression there, but on the whole, he is a really good player with very little in the way of flaws or limitations. Just maybe doesn't have the same upside as some of the other guys.
Speaker 8I'm going to make a bold prediction right now.
Speaker 7Oh. I understand.
Speaker 8I understand he's been at the top of the catcher rankings before. I understand he's turning 29 this offseason. I don't think we've seen William Contreras' best season yet. I think it's still to come. You mentioned, Frank, the improvement in pull air rate. It was, was it a career high? It was his career high for a season with at least 200 plate appearances, his pull air rate, and his strikeout rate was a career low by a lot.
Speaker 7Yeah. He traded some quality of contact for that 90 mile per hour average exit velocity was the lowest of his career. That's a multi-year downturn. That's still very good. Yeah, it's still very good. But it's more in the good, not great range.
Speaker 8Specifically, if you're improving your pull air rate like he did, that's plenty good enough to send 25 plus homers out of the yard. That's something he's never done before. His career high is 23. He's only gotten to 20 twice, which seems crazy given his stature. The catcher is more crowded now than the days when William Contreras, we just defaulted to him as number one. But I still think he has number one upside at this position, even for as deep as it's become.
Speaker 1Yeah. And I forget the conversion rate on this. And not all barrels are created equal, but typically it's something like 60% of your barrels should go for home runs. And he had 41 barrels this year. And if you just do the math on that, it's 24.6 home runs. So I, again, I kind of feel like he deserves, he deserved more power this year based on the barrel rate went up a little bit. The pulled air rate was much better this year. Like we've asked for years for William Contreras to lower his ground ball rate and he did it. And I feel like he deserved more power. So I'm with you, Scott. I still think, especially with that contract year, like I think we could get one more, like really, really big season here out of William Contreras. Let's take our final break. When we return back into the catcher recap, we'll move on to the fifth best catcher. We'll do that right after this.
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Speaker 1Welcome back in fantasy baseball today. Our 2026, catcher recap and we are up to the number five catcher this past season. And that was Dylan Dingler who provided $22.5 of value in Roto. He was ninth in total fantasy points, 2.7 fantasy points per game. That was tied for 10th at the position had this massive breakout 27 homers, 91 RBI completely fell off the final two months of the season. He suffered a bruised right thumb on a foul tip in early July. And I kind of feel like that, just contributed to his terrible finish here. Scott. So look, we have questions. Was it the injury? Was he always just going to regress? I think that's hard to say, but the stack cast numbers, the hard contact, the pulled air rates have looked very good the past two years. I think if nothing else, like two 50 to two 60 with like 25 home runs feels like a pretty fair
Speaker 8expectation. Yeah, it's a fair expectation. That's about what I'm expecting. So over the final month, plus it, it was August 8th on, he hit one 49 with one home run, which dropped his season batting average about 30 points. So that tells you the kind of year Dingler was having before then. But like I said earlier, um, 2025, he showed a lot of offensive potential to it in, in 2025, his expected batting average was actually 96th percentile. So, you know, then he follows it up by hitting two 43, a really bad final month. And a half. I, I think he's a good hitter. Um, I, I think, I think there may be a risk of doing with Dingler next year. What some people did with P Crow Armstrong and James would for that matter, uh, coming into this year where, Oh, he finished so poorly. I don't, I don't trust that he's ever going to be good again. Like the, the early season was clearly fake because of how poorly he finished. I, I don't think that's the case. I think Dingler should be a top five. Do I have a top five or do I have a sixth? Yeah. I'm top five for Roto next year. Lower in points because he doesn't walk much at all, but yeah, top five for me and Roto.
Speaker 7One thing I'm struggling to get my head around with Dylan Dingler is he had very different seasons in 2026 and 2025. His Wobo was two, three 26 and three 25. His ex Wobo was three 49 and three 44. That is really weird because he, he was a very different type of hitter across both seasons. He underperformed by almost the exact same amount. And Oh my goodness. Ian Seymour is melting down as we are talking. Uh, just walked in a better and hit one with the bases loaded, but back to Dylan Dingler. I, I am sort of inclined to say that the first half was fake for him in that. I don't think he is truly an elite power hitter. I don't think Dylan Dingler is, is legitimately a 30 homer guy like he looked i'm not i'm not sure he's a 25 homer guy uh he doesn't hit the ball all that hard he hits it reasonably hard but not incredibly so um he does do a pretty good job of pulling it but his plate discipline's pretty bad uh 23 strikeout rate six percent walk rate um and it's just a tough ballpark like that ballpark's just never gonna do him any favors so i i i think dylan dingler's pretty good i i think he's just short of great now that being said he's my number six catcher i could go as low as eight i don't really think i'd feel comfortable going any higher than six i
Speaker 1kind of wrestled with him versus cal raleigh
Speaker 7i have them back to back yeah i think raleigh herrera and and dingler i'm gonna wrestle with that a lot this offseason because remember as it says in my google doc first draft rankings it's actually a google sheet but first draft rankings don't hold us to any of this don't hold us to anything ever ever but especially not our rankings in october for the following april or march the
Speaker 1number six catcher this past season was liam hicks 22.4 dollars of value in roto he was seventh in total fantasy points 2.8 fantasy points per game that was tied for 10th at the position huge season out of nowhere hit 284 with 18 homers 82 rbi and 801 ops elite contact skills he upped his pulled air rate from 15 to 20 that that made a huge difference chris i do think that liam hicks is kind of hard to project moving forward because he got off to this great start then he alternated bad months with good months he was terrible against lefties so a full season with tampa like is he just a strong side platoon bat so i kind of worry about that i think the batting average and the contact skills are legit but i i think i'd expect the power to come down a little bit maybe like 12 to 15 home runs something like
Speaker 7that yeah i mean you look what he did with the marlins it was 14 homers and 101 games look what he did with the race four homers and 41 games i i think that's probably a a little bit of regression to the mean for him but man the contact skills are so good and he's got a little bit of like an isak paredes skill set where the back control is so good like he just does not swing and miss i i think i think he had the lowest in zone whiff rate of any uh hitter in baseball this season um and so that combination of outstanding back control with the pulled air rate which i think those go together right i think that's the thing that makes isak paredes so strong as he picks the exact right pitches to swing at and he gets the bat exactly where he needs it to be to do that consistently i think liam hicks has a little bit of that there is a fairly low floor here and i'm not going to draft him as if 2026 was real but i do think he's a solid starter i think the batting average should be pretty projectable maybe it's not 284 again maybe it's more like 275 but from a catcher that's still very good if you're talking more like double digit home runs rather than 20 ish i feel okay about that you know 10 homers and so i put all of it together and it's a pretty solid player it's not a star or anything close to it but i think he's i think he's solid it
Speaker 1feels like a good catcher too then rather than a catcher one sure
Speaker 8the the big issue is is and you you mentioned it frank but i really wanted to highlight it emphasize it underscore it that's the right word he became a strictly two player platoon player with the rays liam hicks stopped starting against right-handed pitcher or against left-handed pitchers and looking at his splits it makes sense but that makes him one of the lower pt number one catchers around the league for a guy who already doesn't have a lot of power to spare i i look at liam hicks in tampa bay and what i see is basically a lower variance alejandro kirk like i think hicks will more consistently deliver the 280 batting average that you're hoping to get from from kirk but i think everything else is pretty similar playing time power potential maybe he'll score more runs than
Speaker 7kirk i would i would say
Speaker 8scoring runs it will yeah like he scores like a couple two to three dozen runs a year alejandro kirk but i rank them similarly i have hicks i have hicks 15th i have kirk 17th i have adly rushman right in between for some reason i'll have to remind myself why i did that feels a little weird to separate those two with rushman but yeah that that makes hicks i mean unless it's a 15 team league that makes him a number two catcher for me next year rather than
Speaker 7a number one yeah as we're talking this through frank i know you pulled the rankings from the article i'm working through it he's not going to be where he was in that graphic i apologize this podcast is already out of date i
Speaker 8i'm sorry you guys are convincing me i need to move cal raleigh up i thought i was being pretty bold putting him 10th but you know not no i look i think
Speaker 1that's the prudent move i i still would like to get to spring training and know that that shoulder is completely healthy and he's fully recovered from surgery we don't know that right now but yeah just yeah for cal raleigh that is yep the number seven catcher this past season was carter jensen he provided 22.2 value in roto he was eighth in total fantasy points for catchers 2.6 fantasy points per game was 14th at the position very strong rookie season also very streaky he hit uh 27 homers 80 runs 81 rbi came with a lower batting average the underlying skills didn't really back it up he was kind of an accumulator but he played a lot i think he's old so he could theoretically get better scott what are your thoughts here on carter jensen
Speaker 8yeah i think he's gonna get better um i was pretty hyped to draft him this year and by my sky high expectations he he he didn't live up to them uh mainly i was disappointed with how bad the plate discipline was how much he struck out how much it caused that batting average to fall uh but in the end he finished as the seventh best catcher which is higher than you drafted him to be played a lot so the totals look good uh over 80 runs in rbi which is great for a catcher and then september did a lot to raise everybody's enthusiasm for 2027 that final month carter jensen hit 338 with eight home runs and an 1194 ops and maybe he's just mr september you'll remember i gave him that award and the awards episode of fantasy baseball today uh because i i you know obviously last september he was really good as well that's what got us all excited about 2026 but more than anything i i think i think there's room to improve in the strikeout rate it was so high last year and the september remember he got off to um his season began in a strange way too he showed up late for i don't know if it was for the warm-up or for the game itself and then got benched for a few yeah
Speaker 7um i can relate
Speaker 8to that and i
Speaker 7think he was i
Speaker 8may be remembering wrong but i think he was off to a good start after that and then kind of fell into a slump so i don't know how much that had to do with anything but it it it definitely uh cast a pall over his season and then he finished at a really high point so there's clearly offensive potential here i think he's we're still working out exactly what kind of hitter carter jensen is but we know he has power we know he's going to play a ton he became the catcher who finally relegated to salvador perez to d h primarily which was long overdue um and i think he's clearly the royals future at the
Speaker 7position the one thing i will add with carter jensen is just maybe he's not a 28 strikeout rate guy forever but i do think he's going to be a high strikeout rate guy because he's a very patient hitter which works to his benefit he's walked 13 or 10 11 percent of the time uh that's 17 percent strikeout rate that he posted in september of last year that's a huge outlier for his career he was more of a 24 to 27 rate guy for most of his minor league career he was 28 last year i i think he's going to be a higher strikeout rate guy his swing is fairly grooved um so i i do think there's some there's just always going to be some swing and miss here so i i kind of expect the batting average to be pretty low but in a in in a way that's viable at catcher right like 245 250 ish 25 plus homers and i don't think that's the ceiling i think it's a very good player it's just um i'm not sure how much better i expect him to get the only way he
Speaker 1would get better is just because he's a young player with a good amount of prospect pedigree and he just improves right there's not really much in the underlying numbers that tell us that he should get better outside of those reasons but i i think the batting average floor is actually even lower than that just because sure he strikes out a lot in xba and he puts the ball in the air a ton so it's just those two things combined lend itself to to a pretty low batting average and you mentioned the 217 xba so it's a little given take like i think he could improve overall as a player he's still so young but i also just don't want to like overrate anything that he did this past season so i think a low-end catcher one makes
Speaker 8sense here for i mean for how like how many historically how many rookie catchers have had a season this good that's why
Speaker 1i don't want to poopoo it's like a guy that hits this many home runs with like 80 runs in rbi as a 22 or 23 year old it's impressive like it is impressive stuff no matter you know which way you look at it the number eight catcher this past season was ivan herrera provided 22 of value in roto he was second in total fantasy points per game uh excuse me second in total fantasy points he was 2.8 fantasy points per game which was tied for 10th at the position so those two things don't really line up except tons of volume that's how we got there with ivan herrera 717 plate appearances second in major league baseball you might want to look at ivan herrera 717 and ivan herrera 717 at the top of the list so i think that's something that you can look at as well and i think that's a really good example of what's going on with ivan herrera in rbi as well i think that's a really good example of what's going on with ivan herrera in rbi as well i think that's a really good example of what's going on with ivan herrera in rbi as well i think that's a really good example of what's going on with between being the full-time dh and like their backup or second or third string catcher i feel like maybe the cardinal just threw too much his way and as a result like the the rate stats the per game stats actually came down but he got there because of volume
Speaker 7yeah i think that's all fair and i i think the emergence of leo bernal and whatever development happens for jimmy crooks and ronnie al rodriguez whenever he he gets called up you add it all up and i i think just don't play him behind the plate this should just be your full-time dh i think there's a decent chance they they look to trade him yeah this offseason as well because i i think he's got to be arbitration eligible this year i believe um and so maybe not maybe he's a super two guy or something but he's been around for a while and so i i think he would benefit from just not catching at all and i where i'm not a hundred percent sure of that but i think he's got to be arbitration eligible this year i believe and so maybe not maybe he's a super two guy or something but he's been how much improvement i expect from carter jensen in 2027 i i would expect yvonne herrera to be better in 2027 than he was in 2026 at least on a per game basis or a rate basis you know do i think he's going to score 98 runs again no do i think he's going to get 717 plate appearances again no but i think he's a better hitter than he showed in 2026 he makes a lot of contact he's got a hard enough he hits the ball to the right fields often enough i don't think he's the superstar that i thought he might be after 2025 but i think he's a really good player and i think he's going to hit more like 265 275 with the 20
Speaker 8homers my gut tells me the same thing but that's all yeah the data's and look if they have if they have what they think their franchise catcher is in leo bernal and dh is only what's going to be available to herrera next year like he has to be better than this because he
Speaker 7got he did get a lot better at the end of the season um his final 100 plate appearances his x level was 366 that's more like what i expected from
Speaker 8him uh okay yeah that that would be better but for the year he ended up hitting 241 and he ended up slugging 382 yep he lost about 40 points of batting average from the previous year he lost about 100 points of slug and like you can't have a 241 hitting 382 slugging full-time dh and the expected stats
Speaker 1back all that stuff up yeah yeah he lost about two miles
Speaker 8per hour and average exit velocity he did not lose any bat speed average bat speed for what that's worth so you know that that i guess is encouraging the the wear down argument did he wear down i can't prove he didn't but 108 of his 161 games came at dh if you're playing the field that little you probably shouldn't wear
Speaker 1down yeah but it's also just the most that he's played in a season you know so sure yeah i don't
Speaker 8know he's i think yvonne herrera is the hardest one for me to rank even beyond cal raleigh i rank him i rank him higher than cal raleigh so i'm i'm ranking him i do too i think optimistically but we're because look at the season he had for as bad as he was but that was with him playing 161 games which he won't do if he has the season that bad again right it's it's it's although i catch 22 being the cardinals
Speaker 7i'm not sure they have necessarily another alternative at dh so he benefits a little bit from that
Speaker 1although ryaniel rodriguez getting called up they probably want him to play somewhere in the field i don't know that they want a 20 or 21 year old to just play dh but yeah there are questions right now about you know using him at third base will he play catcher so i mean he could factor into the dh discussion and again yvonne herrera could get traded somewhere too so that factors into this conversation i ranked him fifth at catcher i mean maybe that's too high i have like him versus moreno i thought was an interesting kind of comparison because i would expect i think a similar output for both and i both have extensive injury histories as well but herrera's just done it for longer i mean you know before this past season he was up over an 800 ops two seasons in a row so he's just he's been better for longer um and so i lean on that with yvonne herrera but yeah it's i think it's close between him and uh gabriel moreno the number nine catcher this past season was shea langoliers and that is despite missing about a month and a half with a torn meniscus in his right knee so he provided 15 and a half dollars of value in roto he was 11th in total fantasy points 2.9 fantasy points per game was tied for sixth at the position hit 262 23 homers good counting stats he has become consistently great over the past two years he hits the ball very hard he upped his bat speed by a lot this past season strong expected stats awesome home ballpark the like i am really really excited if you can't tell by by shea langoliers um the only thing scott the last step for me is just making sure that that knee is completely healthy he did return late in the season but he only dh he did not play catcher so i just need to know that that knee is completely healthy and if it is like i i think he's a lock it in top three catcher for
Speaker 8this season yeah like we like i said about william contraris i think he's going to play catcher for this season i think he's going to play catcher for this season because he injuries have uh sidelined him for part of the last two years when he he looked like he was turning into a monster but i think that monster's still lurking underneath and what i like about uh about the way his 2026 played out even before the injury he was playing more dh than he had previously he was shea langoliers was starting to get the same treatment drake baldwin does with the braves where he gets to play dh on his off days
Speaker 1but but can he do that next season if he's going to play dh on his off days i think he's going to play dh on his off days brent rooker and tyler soderstrom are both healthy that that is a big question no that's
Speaker 8that that's and kurt's too yeah that's fair do you want do you want both soderstrom and rooker and outfield together was soderstrom
Speaker 7bad defensively this year i think he's actually pretty wasn't he like a gold glove finalist finalist two years ago he wasn't he wasn't very good but but i i don't think yeah he's rated out pretty poorly i don't think that they can
Speaker 1because they have henry bolte in the outfield too so i think and butler butler came
Speaker 8on strong at the end lawrence butler
Speaker 1yeah so i just i don't know that there will be many dh opportunities moving forward for
Speaker 8langoliers but obviously he was when i say he was getting that treatment that was before rooker and soderstrom got hurt that was as far back as april i'm pulling up the the daily lineups now for the and they should he's
Speaker 1a really good hitter i think it was like
Speaker 8against left-handers they were taking lawrence butler out of the lineup shifting rooker to the outfield and letting langoliers dh yeah that makes sense there's a where there's a will there's a way i can't guarantee it but if nothing else it shows that they recognize langoliers as a huge part of their lineup yep i
Speaker 1think that's all fair the number 10 catcher this past season was the old i can't really say reliable because uh i think the old compiler i think the decline is here and that is salvador perez who provided 11.7 dollars of value in roto he was 10th in total fantasy points this past season uh but just 2.2 fantasy points per game so again a compiler an accumulator big playing time standout still with 627 plate appearances um he hit 229 he did get to 21 home runs 70 rbi so some of the power stuff uh was was still pretty good here for salvador prez he was much better in the second half chris it feels unwise to bet on a back for someone turning 37 in may but if you want to buy into those numbers in the second half of the season they were much much
Speaker 7better sure there i i don't given the depth of the position i don't think there's any reason to bet on a bounce back from from salvador prez right like okay yeah he was better in the second half do we really think that salvador prez is a 25 homer 100 rbi again guy Maybe. It's not impossible, but I just don't see any reason to make any kind of investment in that regard. I don't think you'll have to either. Yeah, sure. He'll be cheap enough that as your number two catcher, if you just draft him for home runs and RBI and anything's bonus, I think that's fine. But I don't think it would make very much sense to bet on a big season from Salvador Perez at this point. And that's fine. You're not going to have to, but you shouldn't also.
Speaker 1I agree with that completely. He should be drafted as a number two catcher. I just wouldn't be surprised if he hit like 25 homers with 80 to 90 RBI while hitting like 240.
Speaker 8That is not my expectation, though. My expectation is that he's even worse next year. I know he compiled his way to a top 10 finish, but there are many other catchers. How many? There are 21 other catchers I would take. That sounds about right. That's about the number.
Speaker 1All right. Well, you know what? I have a pretty good feeling that none of you guys will want to draft the number 11 catcher either, but I'll just bring up his name real quick. That was Carson Kelly. That's right. Carson Kelly, 11th on the player rater at the catcher position. He provided around $9 of value in Roto. He was 14th in total fantasy points among catchers, 2.2 fantasy points per game. He was just present. He showed up. He played 120 games. He hit 258, 10 homers. He was near 60 runs and 60 RBI. The quality of contact and power came way down. He has a mutual option this offseason. My guess is that he will not be back with the Cubs. We'll see where he lands and if it's somewhere as a starter, like maybe as a deeper second catcher. But yeah, I just think this was mostly like he got to play 120 games and he wasn't terrible.
Speaker 8And I'm glad you brought it up because I think it's demonstrative of us kind of poo-pooing Salvador Perez finishing 10th. It's like, come on, top 10 finish and he's Salvador Perez. Why are you giving him such a hard time? Well, Carson Kelly finished 11th and I don't think at any point that this past season did anyone think of him as a top 12 catcher. It's just enough other catchers missed time to push him up that high.
Speaker 7There was that month in April of 2025 where he hit like Barry Bonds. You guys remember that he had like seven homers and 15 walks and 50 plate appearances. It was crazy. And no, he's like as a second catcher, Carson Kelly's fine. But he's never going to be much more than fine. And you should always be endeavoring to get better than fine.
Speaker 1Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, we can move on to the number 12 catcher from this past season. And that was Ryan Jeffers from the Minnesota Twins, who provided $8.7 of value in Roto, 13th in total fantasy points, 2.9 fantasy points per game was tied for six at the position. Just a weird year. For Ryan Jeffers, he got off to that massive hot start. Then he suffered a fractured hammy bone in mid-May. And then he was significantly worse once he returned. And we know the hammy bone is tricky, right? Like it derailed Jose Ramirez's season. And he's one of the best hitters in baseball. Ryan Jeffers, a free agent this offseason. I think he's a good hitter. I think he's below average defensively. My guess is he probably lands somewhere as a starter. I don't really know what to expect. Just because if you look at his yearly, production, it's just changed a lot throughout the course of his career. But there was a chance that he was like breaking out and could have had the best season of his career. We just unfortunately got derailed by injury. So we'll see where he winds up. My guess is he will still wind up somewhere as a starter, Ryan Jeffers.
Speaker 7Yeah, and potentially as a part-time DH. You know, maybe the Yankees were rumored at the deadline. That would make a lot of sense. But he, I think he probably just had two good months. Probably isn't really a great hitter like he looked early on. But as a number two, I think he's better than Salvador Perez, certainly.
Speaker 8He's generally delivered OPSs in line with William Contreras in that 750 to 825 range. And so I've always been hopeful the Twins would put more stock in Jeffers as their starter. And they never did. He was the starter, but he was like a 60, 60% of the time starter and not, you know, the 90% that we see from so many high-end catchers these days. The problem is you mentioned Frank, he, he, he's a defensive, he, his defense holds him back. And so no matter where he goes, I think he's probably going to be a 60% of the time starter. And that's going to make Ryan Jeffers outside of the top 12 for me next year. I do like him more than Salvador Perez and definitely more than, uh, Carson Kelly, but, but I
Speaker 7don't think I
Speaker 8would draft them even as high as 12th, Ryan Jeffers next year.
Speaker 1Yeah. It does depend somewhat where he lands. I wonder if he goes to a team where he could get more DH opportunities, like Chris pointed out. So, you know, being as like the 60% catcher and then getting DH opportunities on top of that, it's like, all right, you could see a world where Ryan Jeffers plays 120 or 130 games next season. And he, he was, he's generally, he's generally been a pretty good offensive player. So I'm a little intrigued by where he winds up again. That is, uh, Ryan Jeffers. We're kind of up against it here. Congratulations to the Rays, by the way, they, they are, they have advanced to the World Series. So, uh, the Rays versus the Brewers is your 2026 World Series matchup and, uh, pretty good leverage for the players in the, uh, in this, uh, CBA negotiations there. So, uh, two small market teams that are duking it out in the World Series. What we are going to do is, uh, we will reveal, some catcher rankings on our FPT Express episode. So make sure to tune into that. We are going to wrap there for Scott, Chris, I am Frank. Thanks as always for tuning in to Fantasy Baseball today, please make sure to follow and leave a five-star rating on Apple or Spotify. And we will be back again later this week.
Speaker 6Bye-bye. Paramount Podcasts.
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