199 - UFOs Are Not Aliens: The Jack Parsons Ritual & Occult Symbolism | NAB x Isaac Weishaupt

What if conspiracy theories were never about the past, but about what's coming next? This week we're joined by a conspiracy researcher, Isaac Wisehop, to explore a theory that connects the Illuminati, AI, the occult, secret societies, and the future of humanity. Why are some people convinced we're headed toward a digital matrix? What do ancient occult beliefs have to do with modern technology? Why do some believe that the biggest changes coming to humanity are already happening right in front of us? All that and more on this week's episode of Ninjas are butterflies. Fair warning, this episode gets into some pretty heavy topics, and may not be suitable for young listeners. This podcast is brought to you and powered by Sunday Cool. Watch this, or listen, or listen, or listen, watch this, or listen. You gotta listen, listen! Welcome back ladies and gentlemen! We got Mr. Isaac Wisehop. Close enough. Wisehop! Like that? Yeah, that's pretty close. You gotta have some angry German in there. Wisehop! So how do you pronounce it? Well, okay, so Wisehop is probably the correct pronunciation. Do you want me to go into like the name? So the name is actually a pseudonym. It's not my real name because the very short version, back in 2011, I started researching all this stuff and presenting it online through a blog, then a podcast, and a YouTube, and all that. And back then, it was the realms that I researched and were quite seedier back then. It was more of a subculture. Today, everybody's into this stuff, right? They're called symbolism and conspiracy theories, which is good because, man, I learned so much now. I go online, and I'm learning a ton, right? But back then, there wasn't a lot of people into this stuff, so I had a lot of strange folks sending me death threats and things. But, you know, it's the internet. I don't know how serious to take those things. It's like everybody showed up my front door, but the first time someone wanted to interview me was this radio show out of Oklahoma. They say, "Hey, Illuminati Watcher." Because that was my name first, was IlluminatiWatcher.com, right? And that's how I would blog. And they say, "Well, what's your name?" And I was like, "Oh, I ain't got to give my real name." So I came up with the pseudonym as a play on the I and the W. and the founder of the Bavarian Illuminati is Adam Weisshopped, which you're probably thinking right now. Wow, that's really stupid, Isaac. It's what a dumb idea for a name for Conspiracy Guy, and you'd be correct. I think it was very rare. That's so funny. I actually just read that name for the first time in my life, because someone sent us a book that says, "Can a Christian be a Mason?" And he tagged a page, and it said in 1776, Adam, what's his name? You know Weisshop, or whatever, how you pronounce it? It started the Illuminati. And it's weird, that's weird, that it's 1776. That's super wild to me. Yeah, there's a lot of conspiracy theories about what the Illuminati was doing. I mean, we can go into that later, if you want. I kind of have this lecture. I'm tweaking that I want to present that goes through the history of spirituality, the occult religion, and how all the things lining up right now are taking us into the digital matrix, because this is the occult planet always has been. Interesting. And once you kind of know how the pieces fit together, you say, "Oh, wow, that makes all the sense in the world." I can't believe this is happening right now. Which is kind of surreal in a way. Yeah, that's sick. Yeah, we should definitely get into that. I'm gonna say, consider me hooked. Speaking of pseudonyms, though, did you real quick? Did you know that Stephen King had a pseudonym for a while? No, the craziest thing. So in the '70s, Stephen King was writing books, and back then publishing companies, they would only release one book a year for an author. But he was like, "I can't stop writing." And he was releasing too many. So they're like, "You got to slow down." It's all that coke. And so he's like, "Yeah, exactly." He was writing. He's like, "I'm gonna create a pseudonym." And so he came up with the name Richard Bachmann, and started releasing a book after book. I mean, like the long walk. It was the vanishing, all these other, these huge books. And there was a book clerk that was, you know, reading a lot of these books. And he was like, starting to notice some similarities. And so he looks at the publishing companies of Richard Bachmann and Stephen King. And it all goes back to the same address. And he's just like, so he writes a letter to Stephen King and says, "I know you are." "I know you are." So Stephen King calls him and says, "What are we gonna do here?" Like, "Well, don't ruin this for me." You know, like, this is something. And so it was just a few years later, publishing companies started changing their minds on how many books you could release a year. Oh, okay. And so he basically killed Richard Bachmann in his last book. I can't remember the name of it. But they released, Stephen King and Richard Bachmann released a book on the same day. And if you buy the books and you put the covers next to each other, it's one continuous picture. Oh, cool. That's cool. Super cool. What a time to be alive as a creator. Where they were like, "You know what? We don't need more of you." It's okay. Well, we get to that all the time. So yeah, it's kind of a race to the bottom now where you've got to post five times a day. Exactly, you know. So are you still getting death threats? You know, I actually had planned on doing a lecture maybe two years ago. And I had a guy say he was going to mount me to a cross and light me on fire. So kind of, I mean, it doesn't mean I'm going to die. Oh, yeah, that's true. Holy cow. You got to look into it a little bit. We got our first death threat not long ago. But he was Canadian. So it's like, those really count, do they really count? He said, he said, he said, stop making fun of Canadians. I'm going to send some people to come. He's like, I got friends in the FBI all these things. I'm like, dude, I like that. Like we, we love Canadians. We love them. We love Canadians. There are brothers of the North, but the French. The don't get me. He's not in the French. I can't do the French stuff. Dude, it's from Quebec. Yeah, that's the, yeah. Yeah, no death threats besides that. So guys, if you, if you want to add to our list, just please don't, please don't. It would remind you that scary. This podcast is hosted by Josh and Andy. Yeah, this is Andy's address. Well, welcome, Isaac. It's super cool that you're here. Yeah. Yeah, thanks, Rhett. Thanks for inviting me. This is incredible. So I appreciate this a ton. All the way from Utah. Yeah, that's right. And Utah, very, you know, very interesting in terms of the occult as well. Yeah, I am not LDS, but I'm friends with a lot of people that are, right? And the LDS has a lot of roots in the occult when you go back through Joseph Smith. And again, like this is stuff that we can talk about. I'm not really sure how you guys want to do this, but it's pretty slow. Okay, because we figured out I can like drill into something and go on for 10 minutes, you'd be like, all right, set up, dude. But like the, the history of the LDS goes back through Joseph Smith, who was doing a lot of occult practices. And he was doing a channeling of sorts. He made contact with an angel called Maroni. And that entity, you know, whispered things in his ear and gave him this prophecies. And then they come out West and set up in Utah, right? And then a lot of people, you know, in a way, it's kind of interesting. Because when I first moved there, I thought the LDS was a cult. Which even in my orthodox church that I go to, like they'll have all these like flyers out front. One of them is like, it's called cultist at my door about the LDS. And the interesting stuff is that Joseph Smith was a Freemason, and he was doing ceremonial magic. And these are all occulted things, right? These are the things that the orthodox church clearly condemns. But he made contact with, you know, it could be considered an alien religion in a way. It depends on how you look at this thing, right? But he, they contacted with this entity and in the, in the location down there in Salt Lake City, there's, there's all kinds of stuff that's quite interesting. When you've got the, the Freemasonic symbolism that you see on the temple, right? Yeah, yeah. I've been, I've been to the Salt Lake in Salt Lake, the handshaking, the eye. Yes, yeah, yeah. The whole, I forgot what they call it, the endowment ceremonies that they do inside the temple. Which like, that's the key difference is that there's these sort of mysteries that are contained within the LDS church that are only meant for certain initiates, right? Like, not everyone can go in the temple. And there's all these like secretive things, secret names. They give each other secret handshakes. This is all goes back through the Illuminati, the Freemasons, and all secret societies going all the way back to Pythagoras, right? So the, uh, the other symbolism that you'll notice in Utah would be the bee, right? Yeah, the beehive and stuff. Yeah, what is that? It's on the, so it's like on the state flag and it's all over in the artwork, all over the, the, uh, you know, the city, but the, the bee symbolizes magic, right? Goes back through, um, goes back through the mervengy and bloodline and France and stuff. But there was this idea that bees were magic. I think it was because of the idea that they can sort of create honey, create food and all this stuff. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, you have something? Is it? Well, is it all right? Yeah, yeah, go for it. Yeah, my wife doesn't bother me unless there's, okay, no, we're good, we're good. Okay, okay. Cause I got a, uh, security system and I was like, oh, no, is it like going off? Oh, you're good, you're good. Um, speaking of death threats. Yeah. But yeah, but Utah's got a lot of weird stuff going on with it with, uh, paranormal, right? You've got skin walker ranch. Yeah. You've got area 52 supposedly. I don't know about that. To the, every other sentence you say is, like, I do look, I'm like, well, what is that? Yeah, so out in, I believe it's, um, Tuella, army depot or dogway. a combination of the two, they're supposedly where they created the new Area 51, Area 52 supposedly. 'Cause they do a lot of like chemical warfare stuff there. It's very secretive, you know, but, and a lot of the stuff goes back to these, these are conspiracy theories going back to like the 80s and the 90s where people were just like, what's going on over there? And it's hard to know what's real. I mean, I did what you call like UFO hunting out there, which by the way, in 12, there's a dinin' pizza hut, you know. - Really? - So we went to the dinin' pizza hut, which was a great time. - Dang, you don't find those many more. But yeah, there's all kinds of weird paranormal activity and Skinwalker Ranch is obviously a huge one. You know, you just got the whole show and history channel. - Yeah. - What is UFO hunting? Like, what is that in tail? - Is it like that? - For us, it was just watching the skies. But this was, you know, 10 years ago. Today, you could do what they call like the close encounters of the fifth kind protocols, like Stephen Greer. - Oh, yeah. - I downloaded that app, just out of curiosity. And again, like, I got a preface. People need to understand who I am, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - 'Cause as a Christian, I'm not supposed to do any of these things, right? I'm not supposed to be, like I started ghost hunting in '99 and that opened my eyes up to the ideas of the occult and the paranormal. And we had talked on text about Father Seraphim Rose. - Yeah, yeah. - Orthodoxy and the religion of the future, his text he wrote in the '70s. And he prophesied pretty much everything that's going on today. I mean, it's pretty good run for 50 years ahead of its time. - That's crazy. - Yeah. - With the UFOs and then being just a deception, demonic deception. Which, speaking of that, did you see the Catholic priest, the exorcist? - I did. - Yeah, so this, this Catholic exorcist, he is, Monsing, Jesus piece, Monsingnor. - Monsignor. - Yeah, Stephen Rosetti, well-known exorcist in Washington, D.C. was relieved as real, Jesus piece, I'm gonna show you. Relieved of his duties by Cardinal Robert McClare. McClore, I give up. - It's Cardinal in the Catholic Church. - There you go. - The Archbishop of Washington, D.C. After saying in a May 29th video that many, if not most UFO sightings, could be explained by demonic activity. So he made that statement and then was relieved of his duties. - Oh, okay. - 'Cause like, that's not what the Catholic Church teaches. - Basically. - Maybe they should. - Well, there's found that very interesting. - Yeah, and so I've interviewed Professor Danipasalka twice about her books, yeah. - That's awesome. - She's super interesting. She's, for people who don't know, she's one of these people that's hanging out with what they'd call the Invisible College, right? - Yeah. - It's this group of UFO researchers. And like anything else, when you, he'll back the layers of what's going on, you see that there's a cult practices involved, right? People like Tim Taylor that she says he has practices of like meditation, veganism, you know. - Tim Taylor is the NASA control guy or whatever. - The NASA dude, who talked about him. - She's just a quite veganism with a cult practice. - Yeah. - Well, I'm gonna need, I'm gonna need to hear that. - You'll notice a lot of like cults and things. They always advocate for veganism. And there's like wrong with it, even in orthodox churches. You know, we do so much fasting. It's like twice a week. And then on top of that, several weeks out of the year where you basically stick to like a vegan diet more. - Yeah. - Now ask me if I do that. No, I don't. I was pretty hardcore orthodox for about 15 years. And I did several of the full fast. And it's interesting because when you do the full fast, particularly during the Lenton period, I, me and my wife did it like hardcore all the services. I mean, even the Holy Thursday service was like three and a half hours. - Sure. - It is interesting because you do start to feel this power of discernment in a way where you can kind of, I don't know how to describe it. And it seems like wack of doodle stuff. But it almost felt like some of the things that I consume on a daily basis, which is, you know, I'm a big like hip-hop head, horror movies, terrible stuff. Right? Do not look to me to be the example of a good Christian. But those kinds of things when I'm consuming them, feel a little darker when I'm sort of dialed in. And this goes back to, because the, there's a fine line between the occult and like religious thought. All right. Because when you, when you dig into the stuff, you'll find there's so many parallels. And like, for example, with the occult and new age practices, they'll do meditation. They'll do yoga with like meditation and prayer. They're very similar, right? But there's a, the fine line comes down to self-seeking versus God-seeking. And, you know, with meditation, it's the idea of emptying yourself and in some occult realms, it's emptying yourself so that you can become a vessel for another entity. - Gotcha. - Yeah. - And I've done meditation, right? I've gone to therapy for many years, and meditation helped me through a lot of tough times. But it depends on your goal, right? And when I meditate, if I meditate, it's always like I start with a prayer to God and then sort of do the meditation, close with a prayer to God, that kind of thing. So it's with prayer, you're focused on God with meditation, you are not, right? And that, and this goes all the way back to the beginning to the Garden of Eden and Cain, and it's this idea of what they call antinomianism, and I know we're getting, like, deep in the weed already. - I'm here for it. - It's like this left hand path theory that man can become God by existing outside the stream of God's consciousness. Like that's like the fundamental thing. Because a lot of these occult practices don't seem bad. They really don't. And I've read tons of new age books. And like I said, there's been helpful outlooks that I've been able to, you know, embrace from these sources. Even like back when, what the bleep do we know, the documentary came out is a very new age sort of documentary from the mid 2000s. That got me deep into this realm of quantum physics and the law of attraction, which is the secret, you know, the secret. And all these things are great ways of exploring the world that we live in and navigating it with a positive attitude. But when you go deep enough into the occult and you understand where that goes, and that's why the church sort of condemns these things because it's a, they look at it as a slippery slope that once you entertain these things, you eventually - Get soon by it and it don't tell me. - Yeah, you go down this Luciferian path and it's, it ends with like Helena Blavaski's Theosophy and this idea of like, well, Lucifer's actually the good guy and it's like, whoa, how did I get here? - Yeah, I've been, I've been locked on the point that you just made the difference between meditation and prayer and the fact that one is self seeking, one is God seeking. But like, if you look at the average prayer prayed by the average Christian, that is typically like, God helped me with something self focused. Like I would say that a lot of, a lot of Christians unintentionally are actually praying what by that definition you would consider a place of meditation. - Well, that's very interesting that you say that because the Seraphim Rose book, the whole book is about that about how like Hinduism and Buddhism, all this stuff is integrated its way into the church and like it's taken over in some aspects. - Even like worship, it becomes chanty and repetitive and talks about worship, he talks about prayer, speaking in tongues, like all this stuff, of like how much it's integrated into Christianity and how spooky it is. - And like you look at scripture, like the Lord's Prayer or Father who art in heaven, it's immediately like, your will, your kingdom, you, you, you, and it's nothing about, it's like, give us what I need by daily bread and forgiveness, but it's not the core of that prayer is focused elsewhere. - Yeah. - So that's really interesting, that'll pretty trade there. - If Father Rose was saying that ecumenicism was the chief heresy of the 20th century, right? And the idea there is, again, it's like kind of insidious because, and again, these are just ideas. I'm not saying that I'm committed to one idea or another, I feel like my faith pulls me towards Christ and there's times when I doubt that. There's times when you could really poke holes in the argument of Christianity and you'd be like, yeah, that is weird. Why would you give cancer to a child? Like, you know, there's all these things that you're like, man, that's tough. So I don't condemn people for their beliefs, whether that be new age, noctisism or whatever, because like I certainly don't know the answer, but the Father Rose was saying that ecumenicism is the problem because what happens is you start entertaining other religions and you'll see this a lot with some, I don't know, I can't think of any off top of my head. Like some Christian faith will entertain the idea that like, hey, there's aspects of this religion or that religion or that religion that, you know, we kind of have in common. Maybe we should do a fellowship and just agree that, you know, we've got a couple of sticking points that are a little different, but overall, we're kind of the same thing. And he wrote, Father Rose implies that that is this, you know, Satan, Luciferian idea that will ultimately dilute Christianity and get rid of it, which is the ultimate plan, you know, from Satan, right? - It makes sense with like the deceptions that are supposed to come for the church. - Yeah. - So if the church isn't really bought into the core of the essential gospel, then what is it? Well, speaking of deception, do you want to song? I would. - Love a song. (laughing) - What a transition. - What a transition. We have so much to get into. - Got it. - We gotta get, we just need to sing to you, Isaac. I just don't know why. I just feel inspired to sing to Isaac. - I feel it as well. - Yeah. Isaac, we're just gonna shoot from the hip, but do you have a genre in mind? - I'm down for whatever. - If you were to just pick anything. - We can imagine hip hop. He likes hip hop. - I'm a hip hop guy, but I'm gonna try hip hop. - I mean, he has a acoustic guitar. That is a, the well-known hip hop instrument. - Absolutely. - Yeah. - It's the basics. - Two poxes up there just shredding the acoustic. - Yeah. - Ain't had a whole album where he was playing the guitar. - That's true, I see. - But we're good. - All right, we'll come over with something. - I'm worried to listen. (laughing) - We'll come over with something. (coughing) (upbeat music) ♪ Not sure why they haven't called me back ♪ ♪ Are they full or something that'll act ♪ ♪ Send some letters in, I sent my application ♪ ♪ Are they busy or just on vacation ♪ ♪ I bought some robes just in case ♪ ♪ Hung an album, a fireplace ♪ ♪ Learned the codes in the secret handshakes ♪ ♪ I know I got what it takes ♪ ♪ I want to be in the lumenoddy ♪ ♪ And I know that's the place for me ♪ ♪ Secret meetings at a triangle table ♪ ♪ You know I'm willing and able ♪ ♪ The free maces had no to me ♪ ♪ But I was born for secrecy ♪ ♪ So please call me back, won't you please ♪ ♪ Wanna be in the lumenoddy ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Wanna be in the lumenoddy ♪ - All right. - We don't though. - We don't, I mean that's, we're speaking on someone else's behalf. - Yeah, this is of course, we're touching. - We actually found Jay-Z's journal. - Yeah. - And we actually saw him from Jay-Z's journal. - I'm just picturing somebody who got on this podcast from his fan base and was fully born in the city of the cargo. - What's happening, what are you singing? - Yeah, I can tell you right now, a lot of my listeners aren't gonna love the format because I know 'cause I've gotten this exact experiment 'cause my show is very research-based with minimal personality. And over there's more personality installs into it, but it's generally like, here's the research, here's the facts, here's where I found them. Boom. - I try to do some personal, they're like, what is this? - Yeah, they get mad sometimes, 'cause like, the show I do with my wife, that's, oops, all opinions, right? - Yeah, it's just like, you guys are joking around, it's growing around, I'm like, okay, Jay-Z. - I think our format's completely flipped. It's all personality in every search. - It's that personality lack of research. That's what it is. - That's what it is. - That's what people love it. - Oh, but speaking of personality, Isaac, I'm sorry we have to do this to you. Oh gosh, I forgot about this. - Every week, Isaac, we get billions and billions of questions sent into us. - It's a lot of work to go through. - And you are unfortunately in the hot seat, so we need you to answer this question. And it's scary, but it's simple, it's a yes or no. - It's a yes or no. - It is scary, but it's, - Our fans also ask, please don't expound on it. It's just a yes or no question. That's all they wanna know. And I don't know why they wanted it that way, but they do. - They requested billions of people. - Yeah, we live in a crazy world, Isaac. You live, the research you do is absolutely wild. It's scary, it's spooky. It's amazing that you're even able to sleep a night. So I think this question is incredibly appropriate for you. If you're willing to answer it. - I mean, I guess I have to pick it up. - We'll just go ahead and answer. We'll ask the question then. Today's question sent in by a viewer. Should children be around cults? - I mean, I guess it depends on who you are. - I mean, it's a yes or no. I'm sorry, we don't make the rules. I wish we did, but we don't make the rules. Like, should we get rid of all cults? - I'm a free will guy. - Yeah, it's a yes or no. I hate doing this to you, dude. Ah, makes me sick, I have to do this to you. You're a nice guy. - My gut just says no. - Okay. - I know, it's a hot take. - So you, okay. - All right, I mean, we were going so well. - I mean, how you were a good guy. - I didn't think that was a layup compared to some other questions. - I mean, children just being around these young horses, you know, these cults. - Yeah, these young, they learn so much. Have you seen the movie Spirit? - No, that's it. - Oh, okay, well. - Well, you're missing out 'cause the joy it brings children is the joy that these baby horses, these cults, a cult, as in a baby horse, Isaac. - We are very clear in the question. - Well, there's like the children of God called, and that produced a couple of big actors. - We're talking about baby, I don't, oh, oh. - Oh, so I mean, maybe there's something to do. - No, that's cult, oh yeah, that's, we're talking about cult, cult, cult, as in baby horses. - Okay, all right. - So, I mean, yeah, I mean, if you just want to strip the joy from children and just let them live in a cult. - Yeah, you'd much prefer them to be a part of a cult, and not be around cults. - Well, sorry, Isaac, I think this bro, I just have to wrap it up now. It's been nice having you guys at this point, you guys, I'm sorry. - Welcome to the show, I don't know what we're gonna do at this point. - Oh, a bunch of people. - All right, what was your trolling? (grunting) - Can I save you, Chuck? I meant- - I meant- - The buzzing. - You slur'd out one of the- - You slur'd out one of the- - You slur'd out one of the- - Just our butterflies sent you. - Thanks, buddy. - There we go. - There we go. - We did it. - I just get to feed a montage of like horses turning into glue. (laughing) - That dog food. - Got me bears, yeah. - Oh man, okay. - You know, that was a real horse head in Godfather, right? - Yeah. - Really? - Wow. - I did not know that. - That was a real horse. - The guy was a sin. - That's, hey, that's a good one to have seen though. - That's a cult class. - Can we go back and have you say cult and cult? - Cult? - Cult. - You are the man to ask that question. - Cult. - Cult. - Cult. - It's a cult. - Hi, he's a cult. - He's an a cult. - Oh, it's a cult. We could turn into a cult. - Oh, that would be a fun gas light to just completely switch like every couple seconds go a different direction. - That had an occult. (laughs) - Well, where am I cult? - All right, we gotta get back into it, I said. We cut you off. I'm sorry we had to do that. (laughs) - Yeah though. - I appreciate it. - Please do. - Okay. - Please do cut me off. - Let's get into, well, how did you first get in, like what drew you to researching the occult and or exposing it? - You know, I fell into what Father Rose talked about of pop culture influencing us into these realms of science fiction and the occult, right? I was right there growing up in the 80s and 90s. I was into, you know, ex files and there was this cartoon on MTV called The Head. It was about this alien that lives in someone's head. And then. - That's RFK and he has a worm. (laughs) - And it was interesting because in 2001, I was stationed in South Korea and my boy Chuck was like, tell me about Bill Cooper, he'll hold a pale horse. He's like, yeah, this book is talking about aliens under the Denver airport. And I was like, oh, that sounds really cool. So we get back to the States and I find a copy of it in, you know, this is 2002 now. And I get this book and I'm reading it and I was like, oh, this is really cool stuff, you know, whatever, whatever. Then a few years later, another guy, he hands me a VHS tape of David Ike's Freedom Road, which is, you know, David Ike, the shapeshifting lizard guy, right? - Okay, yeah, yeah. You guys always talking about the role of families, much of lizard people and the whole world's run by lizard people. And he was very interesting because he was able to put together a lot of different ideas about historical world religions and things and how it fits into this, you know, larger conspiracy. Now he has more of a Gnostic flair, which I didn't know at the time what that was, you know. Then around 2011 is when I started taking this thing more full time. I eventually discovered Freeman Fly, who another theorist and he was talking about Freemasons and ritual magic and all this stuff. And that's when all the pieces started falling in place for me. And then I'd read Father Rose and yeah, I've always been intrigued by the paranormal, like I was telling you guys earlier, back in '99, I was doing ghost hunting with a Utah Ghost Under Society. This is before it was on TV, right? So it was really weird of guy worked with us, telling me how he does this stuff after work. And he played this audio tape of, he's like, yeah, we were out in this field and we heard this bell ringing. I was like, what? And he plays it and sure enough, you can hear a bell. And I was like, what, there was no bell. And he's like, no, there's no bell. We're just out there. And you got to hear it when you hear the EVP tape. I said, you're crazy, dude. And he was like, he's like, that's the bell. is symbolic of the devil, that's the devil. - Interesting. - And I'm like, and you wanna hang out there? He was like, he was like, yeah, it's really cool. You get voices and stuff. I was like, you're insane, but I'm down. So we started ghost hunting, and I had so many weird paranormal activities happen around me. I eventually decided like, oh, this is real. This is a real thing. And that's when I sort of bailed on it. Now, and I hate to talk about myself like this, but I grew up in a church of the Nazarene, was like a kind of a non-denominational-ish church. And I didn't really like it. I call it like rock band church, right? And I'm not judging it or saying like, people shouldn't like that. It wasn't for me. And when I was 16, my mom was like, okay, you can stop going to church if you wanna stop. I was like, bet, I'm out. 'Cause I couldn't make friends. I think the key part was I couldn't make friends in the church because for whatever reason, like I was kind of a bad boy, right? I wanted to hang out with the guys doing all the things. I'm not gonna say it on here, but like all the things I shouldn't be doing, right? And so, and it was all influenced a lot by, you know, I remember when Dr. Dre the chronic came out. I remember having the cassette tape, we'd gather around and we'd listen to, we're like, oh, dude, they're saying the N word? Like, bro, what is this? And they're smoking chronic, what? And like, all that stuff is very influential when you're a teenager, right? - Yeah. - And anyway, so all those things led me into not liking church for one reason or another. Later on, I would find orthodoxy, and I like the orthodoxy because it was more mystical and that spoke to me in a different way, right? I think everyone has their own personal connection to God and Christ and whatever, however they want to look, is like, I don't care how it looks. Like, this is what works for me. But yeah, there's all these weird things that happened around the time that me and my wife were getting married in the orthodox church. We had, and this is, I was doing the ghost hunting stuff before that, and we had electronic devices talking, like they had a, this like, you know, little intercom in the basement and then upstairs and nobody was home, it was just my wife, and she heard the intercom going off and said, it was my voice telling her, come downstairs, come downstairs. - Yeah. - I'm telling you, she was freaking out. - That's not fun. - No. - And then, and there were several more instances, like we did at EVP in her house, and we reviewed the EVP and it was like, we asked her, you know, what's your name, blah, blah, blah? And it said, it said James. And my wife was in my girlfriend at the time, and she was in the backyard, I say, hey, you know, anybody named James? She says, yeah, that's my grandfather that died. I was like, oh, no. And then I had a voice whisper in my ear. One time when I was sitting in bed, just like, I don't know what it was, there was just hanging out. I heard a voice like right in my ear, like maybe jump a little bit, right? And then we had these claw marks on the wall and like places where it was like a split level, and it was up on the top of like an area where you can't get to without a ladder. And there's these green like claw marks, and it was all throughout the house. And this is right before we got, we painted it before we got married. And then one day, we woke up and saw all these marks. What? And I was just like, I'm-- - This is when you're into the ghosts. - Yeah. - I know, yeah. - And I actually stopped, I actually relapsed once, and did a ghost hunt in a silent 49, also in Tuello, we were talking about Tuella earlier. Silent 49 is one of these really haunted places, like Zach Beggins and the ghost adventurers went there once. Super creepy stuff, man. I saw flashlights turning on, and yeah, the whole ghost hunting thing is what made me fully buy into like, oh, there's something real happening in another realm, another dimension. - I love that we said relapses. It's like, oh, I could just immediately imagine like a ghost hunter's anonymous. Like, I'm not cleaning anymore, guys, I broke last night. - Yeah, kind of draws you in like the moth to the flame, right? And I think some people, maybe if they don't have the right resources, maybe they get lost in this stuff, you know? - For sure. I mean, I have a very similar story where I like, I love horror movies, I love being scared, I love going to the haunted houses and trails and stuff, and you know, productions. And my buddy was doing ghost hunting, and I did the exact same thing. I came out of it on the other side, like not knowing like there was another side to the door. Like I was always like, oh, this is the things we see and we feel that's real. Knowing something else existed beyond that. Like that's what really blew my mind up. And I had a much more, you know, respect for it. I was just like, I'm gonna leave this stuff alone 'cause it's just, it's yucky. Like it can really screw you up. - And it's not a far leap from the alien conversation that we're having at all about what the phenomenon is, right? - And that has, it's roots into the occult for thousands of years. You know, we can dive into that. - Yeah, I'd love to hear. - Wherever you want to go. - Okay, yeah. - Yeah. - Like we, yeah. - I'm super, 'cause I just listened to, do you know American Alchemy? - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah, he just did an episode where it was just him in his own research. I mean, absolutely mind-blowing. Like it was just like, he was talking about just these dark, I don't know what you call him, like black agent and dark agents. They like go in and they're literally taking children from third world countries as like, psionic assets, like to use for these-- - Who have abilities? - Who got, yeah. - And like, how do they find in these kids? - That's the question. But there's these, like Jake Barber. Do you remember Jake Barber? He was the guy, the bald guy who was like, part of the reconnaissance or the retrieval programs. - Retrieval programs. I literally only knew it was retrieval because you couldn't find the word. - But he, there's another guy who's in Indonesia after the earthquake and tsunami and stuff. And he was in the military, Marine, going through the woods and all of a sudden, there was a UFO type of thing, but there was also like containers with like HVAC systems on top. And he said they're loading kids up. And these guys were not in official uniforms, but they're American, basically hell on my gun point and basically you don't say anything or we will kill you. And so he ended up coming out and saying all that stuff. And Jake Barber was like, yeah. He's like, some of these companies I worked for, they would do that. They would go collect these children from third world countries because they're more prone to these open to spiritual. - Open to spiritual, like being able to communicate with UFOs and like just weird stuff. - I wonder if they don't label it that in their culture. Like to them, it's speaking to something else, but. - You know, it just talks about how they're so, they're not corrupted by like crap in their food, medications, drugs. - Distractions, distractions. - Media, like that, yeah. - It's like they're just, they're like pure. Like in the sense of like there's not, the brains aren't contaminated. And so like they're the perfect candidates. So it's like, it's the creepiest stuff. - That's awful. - But that episode was, I mean, so if you want to get into alien stuff, I would love, I would love to talk about it 'cause it's so relevant now. Like, you know, with like the White House, like posting some wacky do stuff. And like, but like it's, it also just seems like a complete siop with like what the government's doing. And Jesse Michaels, he does address that. He's like, there can be two truths. He's like, it doesn't have to be, oh UFOs are fake. And it's just a cover up for something else. He's like, it could be two things that the government's manipulating, you know? - Now, what do you think that shift is? - Because you were just mentioning before how, you know, obviously everything was so much taboo, you know, back in the day when you first started into this stuff. It was very taboo. It wasn't very popular to talk about. It definitely wasn't accepted as like a belief of a lot of people and majority of people in America. It was for sure. Now like we're seeing, it's very common to like have these conversations. Our White House is posting about it, you know? Our president's put like, why did that shift? How did that shift and like, where do we go from here? - Yeah, so this is the revelation of the method stuff, right? I think they're, I think that when you look at the full scope of the history of the occult contact with entities, even like the kids, right? The psionics stuff. These are, it's culminating into the plan, right? And this is what every conspiracy theorist, I call my red pill daddies, right? Like Bill Cooper talked about is this Luciferian New World Order. And one element is that they could be using this UFO thing to, and I don't believe any, you know, I've become more black pill to last a little bit where I don't know what I believe anymore. And I think that whatever the government says, we should take with a huge grain of salt, right? Because they could be pushing us towards this project. Bluebie, I mean, if you look at the history of the government, it's always some kind of fear of the other with which they can use to take away our rights in the sense of, what do I call it? I call it the protection over privacy stuff, right? It's like, oh, you know, we got another boogie man. Better make sure we're tapping your phone records and, you know, making sure that, make sure, I don't want to use terms to get you in trouble here, but like, you know, after 9/11 we had the Patriot Act, right? - Yeah. - And, you know, you had the Cold War for so many years and now it's, you know, Iran's got the thing and we got to make sure we keep you safe and it's like, whoa, but I think that what we're looking at is revelation of the method and that method is occultism. When you talk about why are they picking up kids for psionics, right? And I think that guest was on Sean Ryan that the guy who was talking about the packaging up kids and crates. And I think this ties into the fini. finance year, you know. Yeah. This is exactly what I think all the files that we haven't seen talk about because this is creepy, weird, like, psionic. Because he was, he was not just into that, that stuff. He was like, like, doing like, like, was it like quantum physics, like, gravitational anomalies, like, all that weird stuff, right? Right. And when you look at the history of the occult, the early scientists during the Renaissance, they were occultists, like Isaac Newton, he was an alchemist, right? That's where the term chemistry comes from is alchemy. So occultism was the foundation of science. And science became this sort of new religion of sorts. And it's rising to strange spooky things happening in the quantum realm that we can't really reconcile with the Newtonian physics, right? That's why they call it like the grand unified theory is they're trying to unite the two and they think string theories the way to do that. But there's a lot of weird things happening. And I think the occult is one of those threads that has been investigating and understanding this for so many years. This goes back to, and then to talk about the psionics and why they choose the kids, this is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Professor Pasalke talked about Tim Taylor, they call it like keeping the signal clean. Like, he views his body as an antenna to sort of download or channel entities, right? In a way. And you have to do that by keeping, you know, the signal clean is kind of what you were describing. And what's interesting is that Jesse Michaels, who I don't know the guy, obviously, super intelligent dude. I've seen a lot of this stuff and I like, this guy's really sharp. Yeah, crazy. And his, I found it interesting that he was able to land a guest named Peter Leventa. Do you know who that is? I don't think so. Peter Leventa. Yeah. So Peter Leventa, I only knew about him from being in the circles that I was running in for so many years. And I've read several of his books. And I've always said, this is, I've been trying to get him on my show for years. And I can't get a response. And that's fine. Yeah. But he is super interesting because he knows all about the occult. I'm sorry, I searched his name and then he said, people also search for Tom DeLong and Adolf Hitler. That's not good company. What a spectrum. Tomato tomato. So Peter Leventa. So he's, he's a, and I don't know which guy. No, he's American dude. He wrote several books on the occult. And it was interesting because, and I don't know where he stands today. I'm not like an avid consumer of everything he says. But for a while there, he denied being an occultist practitioner. And people point to, he was on the history channel doing this, what they call the auto-temply orientist, this magical group doing a ritual of sorts. Oh, there's, there's video footage of him and people are like, right there, he's doing it. And he's like, not me, I don't know whatever. And then he supposedly wrote the necronomicon as the under a pseudonym named Simon. All of this is allegedly, I don't know if any of that's true. I don't know if he's admitted to it or denies it's still. I have no idea. Regardless, the man knows so much about the occult. That's why I want to interview him because I mean, he goes so deep in the weeds. There's a book he wrote called The Dark Lord where he connects Alistair Crowley with HP Lovecraft. And it's like the most insane thing. It goes into tantric sex magic and all this crazy stuff, right? Jeez. I mean, I was telling you, when you get into the occult and you get down in the weeds of it, it's, it, all these pieces start to connect on the bottom. And that's like HP Lovecraft Crowley, channeling entities and all this stuff. And people have been to the reason he shows up with Tom DeLong, who's a Freemason, by the way. No way. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. He's a Freemason. And look, I love Blink when they two is one of my favorite bands of all time. And again, like I kind of keep going back to because I'm trying to show people that you don't have, I mean, again, not a good Christian don't listen to me, but for me personally, I still enjoy all these things. Horror movies, link 182, all these occult things. I just, to me, it's my way of seeing what the other side is like so I can kind of decide what, what path do I want to take? And I think if you don't, if you mindlessly consume these things and don't think about the influences that they're having on you, then you might get persuaded to go down that path of, you know, now you're channeling entities and when crystals on your body and stuff, right? Sure. But Peter Leventa wrote a book with Tom DeLong. And it's interesting. You brought up the, the kids with the psionic stuff being sort of pure, right? Because in that book, when it first came out, he wrote, I believe it's three books. I only read the first one. But the first one, it talks about the phenomenon. And he uses a lot of interesting things that if you didn't study the occult, you don't really pick up on and things that fly by like he says, he talks about how there's the delta shaped, you know, triangle shaped UFOs. And he compares it to magic rituals, because in, in magic rituals, the magician stands in a circle and manifests an entity and a triangle, right? It's why it's called the triangle manifestation. That's why Jay-Z, you know, doing this stuff. Yeah. It's manifesting energy. Clip it. He just did it. Guilty. I'm manifesting. So he talks about how there's this possible connection between dimensions that that UFO triangle is actually manifesting itself into our reality. It's the triangle manifestation is the craft. And later on, what's even crazier is that, you know, he's talking about all this UFO stuff and the government program and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he talks about the Aztecs. He talks about the Aztecs and while they're doing human sacrifice. And he talks about how what they would do at like, um, Chichen Itza, I guess it was, they would take the purist child because they, because they, they view the human body, just like you were saying, where like a child is like kind of the purist and they, they would use this color of Jade green to symbolize this sort of unripened pure energy force that's within the child. And they would take them up and the, the priest would brutally tear these children apart, right? Kindness. And the idea was they wanted to release the energy of the spirit, this pure spirit that was deep within the child so that I could reach all the way to the gods. Holy cow. And he's talking about this in an alien book and I'm like, why is he talking about this in an alien book, right? Yeah. And it's because they believe in this gnostic idea. And that's like one of the key, one of the key elements of occultism and understanding what's happening in our world with the aliens is the, the concept of gnosticism, which they basically invert the Christian belief of how this world was created. This goes back to the Garden of Eden, right? It goes back to Adam and Eve and everybody knows the story that the serpent says, hey, Eve, eat the apple and she's like, no, God said, don't do that one. And he's like, no, it's gonna be great. You're gonna love it. Whatever, all right? Well, the gnostic's believed that what happened was the serpent, who's the liberator, Lucifer, right? The serpent shows up and persuades Eve to eat the apple through a bit of a logical puzzle that he gives her and says, look, I need you to eat this apple. It's from the tree of the knowledge of good evil. And she says, no, God said, don't eat from that one out of all them. Don't eat that one. He's like, well, look at this. Do you think God's a really good guy or a bad guy? And she's always a good guy. And the serpent's like, yeah, but maybe this is just a test that he wants to see if you will follow your true will, your free will that he gave you so that you can have the tree of knowledge of good evil and you become like a God. Like, this is a test and he wants to see if you pass the test and you eat the fruit. And she's like, I don't know about that. And the serpent's like, look, either that's true or this is a false God. And he is an evil God and he's oppressive and he's like demanding you stay in this prison that he created the Garden of Eden. And she's like, okay, that kind of makes sense. So she eats from the tree of knowledge of good evil. And the Christian version, the Orthodox Christian version of the story is that God sees this happen and he's like, oh man. And he kicks them out of the Garden of Eden before they can eat from the tree of life. Because if they eat from the tree of life, now they're locked in there like a vampire that will sort of degrade over time. So he's like, sympathetically kicking them out. He's like, oh, this isn't what I wanted, right? So Nostex, basically, the serpent was a good guy. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's a good summation of it. Yeah. Like the old fights, like old fight means serpent, the old fight Nostex. And that sort of key distinction is what flows through all the history of the occultist and the aliens. And it's even in Peter Levin does book with Tom DeLong. And supposedly that's what the Freemasons really worship is, is this idea that there's a real God that exists where they call the, they call it the Plieroma. There's like a real sort of like the heavens, right? And it's kind of a wacky thing. But like the real God and the Plieroma created all these opposing pairs, these CG's. And one of those opposing pairs had Sophia, the goddess of wisdom. And she was like, you know what? I'm going to be like God too. I'm going to create a child of my own. She creates this child. And she's like, oh, no, like this is an abomination. I need to kick it out of the Plieroma for, you know, God sees this thing. So she kicks it out and it becomes what they call call the yada bolus. The yada bolus is like flow. holding around the cosmos and says, "You know what? "I remember being up in the Plieroma "and I think I can create my own world, my own universe." So he creates this prison plan that we live in, right? And that's what the Nostics think. We are worshiping as a false God who's the imitation of the real God. So these Nostics think that the real plan for salvation is not a connection with God or Christ. It is through knowledge, the noces. That's why it's called Nosticism. - Knowledge. - Knowledge through Sophia, right? And through Sophia, they can obtain this wisdom so that when they die, they can sort of, and don't ask me the details of it, but like when they die, they think that they'll become what Blavatsky called an ascended master and sort of not get recycled into this prison plan at system again, you know? But the Nostics theory shows up in so many ways and so much pop culture, like the Matrix, right? Which is my favorite film of all time. - Yeah, it's a Matrix trilogy. - Yeah. - And that's basically a Nostic tale. - Interesting. - And it bleeds into simulation theory, which is cheats into AI and like, "Oh, blah, blah, blah." It goes on and on and on, right? Like we can just go on all day with how the Nostic plan is what they're trying to present to us. And people are receptive to these ideas now. - Yeah. - So thousands of years. And now through pop culture, they can sort of train the mind to sort of embrace this idea and be like, "You know what, that makes a lot of sense." - Hmm. Well, that's, I mean, that's interesting that, 'cause when you think of the occult and like all the spooky stuff, aliens, demons, this, that, the music industry, it's like you view them all as like so many, like very different things. But like basically what you're saying, it's like the root of it is like the serpent, right? It's like kinda like that, that evil, I'm better than God. I'm gonna bring you away from God, you know, like, it's interesting. - Yeah, and this goes, you know, after the Garden of Eden, you've got the story of Kane, right? Kane who's slow as brother. And this is kind of the first instance of this antinomianism, left hand path, living outside the stream of God's consciousness stuff, right? He embraces violence and kills his brother and introduces that path to the world, that they call the Mark of Kane. And then after that, you've got two ball Kane, that was a descendant and two ball Kane introduces this, this Promethean Luciferian concept of man becoming the grand architect, man creating this new world that, man puts himself on a pedestal, and you see this with like tower of babble type stuff. - Right, sure. - But these two paths, you know, you've got Kane as the self-seeking path versus, you know, able, the opposing polarity, I guess, would be the God-seeking path. And the duality show up in so many ways, an example that you see most often is the Freemasonic floors, right? They have the black and white checkered floor. And you see this in virtually every movie. I mean, virtually every single movie, you see the checkered floor. And it's in Freemason lodges, it represents what they call the Moses pavement, and it's this idea of opposing polarities because the Nostics and all these occultists, they believe in this idea of the opposing polarities of spirit and matter. And I mean, I don't want to go too deep in the weeds on this stuff. But the idea is that ultimately, the idea is that they believe in this, they want to get back to the pleroma that we talked about, this Nostic, this real, the real heavens or whatever, and to do that, you have to respiraturalize matter, right? You have to bring together the opposing polarities. - So like what, I'm not asking for like a play by play, but like they say they're opposing ideas in a way and that knowledge is the bridge to ascend through deciphering all of that. How do you come up with that? Like where does that start? Does knowledge rise up from themselves? Because if they're the hero of that story, then it would have to come from within them or it came from outside them in which case, it was a gift and not something that they ever rose to. So like how do they overcome that kind of kind of loophole problem in the theory? Do they have an answer for that? - Yes, so you're getting into the philosophy of it and like my best guess for that would be that they think that the dualities are, there's no such thing as duality. - Okay. - They think that good and evil are on a spectrum. - Okay. - Kind of true, right? And again, a lot of these occult things, they're not crazy, right? Like I'm not here to say the occultists are crazy. I'm just saying that all the roads of occultism lead to Luciferian man trying to become God's stuff. But they think that what happened was when God created this world and you could read about this in Mark Booth's secret history of the world. He talks about this out loud, right? They think that God created this world and through the forces of Saturn, another symbol you see in a lot of movies and stuff. - Yeah, it's a black cube, right? - Yeah, the black cube, exactly. Yep. Through the forces of Saturn, Saturn introduced the concepts of the material realm. 'Cause before we were all just like kind of spiritual energy and then here comes Saturn as this opposing force, the adversary, the outer limit. And it condenses matter. - The black checker. - The black checker, yeah, that's a good one. - And it's interesting 'cause in Salt Lake, there's actually white cubes embedded in the sidewalk. And I've researched it to try to figure out what the heck are these white cubes doing everywhere. And from what I understand, there was a mythology of supposedly they were a map to an alchemist castle that was underground in Salt Lake. - No way. - It's crazy. - I'm telling you, there's a lot of weird stuff in Salt Lake. But yeah, the idea is that Saturn introduces forces that condense matter. So for example, the example he gives is that the humans were kind of like a spiritual thing. And when Saturn came along, it created the dead matter of a skull. And the skull is what allowed us to evolve to have brains and frontal lobes and stuff, right? 'Cause without a skull, you can't contain consciousness. So Saturn was a fundamental force in creating thought and creating life, right? So they admire it as such. - Gotcha. - There's even, there's even Saturnian cults that do sacrifices to Saturn. They believe Saturn to be this sort of cold, necessary god in order to transform. Like, they all believe in this alchemical process. - Yeah. - And part of the alchemy is to sort of utilize the duality of these two opposing forces. - Yeah, but they believe in a singularity. Or a singular, they believe in the single spectrum as you started that. - Right. - But the whole thing is somehow explaining a duality. - Yeah. - So the whole thing is circular. - Kind of, yeah. And you see this with, there's, when you look at like, sabotage the V and Jacob Frank, I don't know if those are like any, yeah. Again, we're like, Daven the Weeds. - I'm the least research person in this. - Okay, I promise you, I love that. - So, and I'm gonna be careful with the language I use, 'cause I don't wanna get anybody in trouble here. When you look at Kabbalah and the mysticism behind it and the one particular faith that that's related to, Kabbalah hairs. (laughing) - Sorry, I had to get it out. - There was this idea of the Meshiacra the Messiah coming around in the 1600s named sabotage of the, and he introduced this idea. He was like, "Hey, you guessed what, everybody, I'm the Messiah. I'm here to save everybody." And I'm here to tell you that all of the practices that our religion has are nonsense, you should actually prove how sort of like woke you are by violating all those practices, you know? It'd be like if someone came along and there was a Christian and was like, "Hey, you know what, I'm Christ." And all these rules about loving your neighbor, like, not true. So to prove how like woke you are to my teachings, I'm gonna need you to start killing people and being violent, right? It's kind of what sabotage of he did and Jacob Frank then come along and was like, "Hey, I'm sabotage of he too." And I'm the Messiah too. It sounds insane now, but this is what some of these people are into, the financier is into this stuff. I've literally got the book in my backpack that he bought about a capitalistic sex magic 'cause he was trying to create a moon child. - Oh my goodness. - It sounds so far fetched, but throughout all of history, all of those things, in our Bible, those things were happening to sacrifice us to foreign deities. - Well done. - And you know what I mean, pagan deities. - Yeah, keep going. - But just the fact like why would we suddenly believe that all of the pagan practices and rituals that existed for all of history suddenly went away? Like no, we're of the first generation in all time where it just stopped cold turkey. Like that's a ridiculously like small-minded thing to think. - It's creepy too though. It's just like we would, a lot of people would, I would say a lot of people in society would like look at that stuff and be like, okay, what a cuck. But like, dude, the most powerful men in the world were hanging out with this dude. - Yeah. - Like very intimate with this guy, relationship-wise, you know, like, going back to Crowley. - Putting a lot of risk. - Going back to Crowley too. Like a ton of people in our government were tied to that dude's weird stuff. She go from that dude to the financier. It's like maybe there's a common thread that goes back. I mean, that's about as far as my history the weird stuff. in this country goes, but I'm sure it goes, you know, if you get masonry and like, I know that goes further, but like, there's a common thread of creepy, weird stuff. Hopefully YouTube's okay with that phrase. But the Aztecs, going back to them, like, they did those sacrifices for how many years. It wasn't just a one off. Yeah. Yeah. They were smart people. These guys weren't dumb. Yeah. Like, look at the civilizations that they created. It's like very civilized. Like, they're farming everything. And yet they, and yet they prioritized these human sacrifices for what purpose it benefited them somehow. It was, it wasn't something they were just going to continue to do and see like, if it didn't work, let's just keep trying it. No, they were benefiting somehow. And so what, I mean, we have that happening today. And so that's like, that's what blows my mind. So, because we just look at something barbaric. But no, they were, they were getting something out of it. And the thing that makes me like, I kind of flipped in my brain is like, we always use the alternate religions around the world. They all have a flood narrative. And we're like, see, the Bible's real. But we forget if we're using that argument and they all have the same thing. And it means that they encountered the same thing. Then if you know, the Vikings are practicing sacrifice and they're doing it in South America. And then you're getting, you know, all these different places from all around the world, they're all doing naming it a different God, maybe doing it up a hill or up a pyramid or like, stuff's happening differently. But it's the same knowledge, freaking ritual. Yeah. It's like, you got to say, I don't know who you encountered, but you guys encountered either the same being deity or representation from the same exact pool of thought. Yeah. And to say that's just gone away. Yeah. It's like, it seems like there's more and more proof that it's still just as prevalent. Is there a cosmic battle that's waging right now or is there not raging waging waging waging waging. Waging waging. Can we continue this conversation? After IP. I have to be so bad. Okay. We on that. Don't go anywhere. What's going on, guys? Andrew here. I want to tell you about our Patreon account. We go so far down the rabbit hole you're never going to find your way out. There's stuff we can't even post on YouTube without a getting flabbed and all of that stuff exists at patreon.com/ningesorbutterplice. We got early released episodes. We got weekly bonus episodes, merch discounts, first access to merch like the shirt I'm wearing right here and so much more. So if you want to go deeper with us, if you want to see what we can't post on YouTube, join our Patreon. It's a lot of fun. Merch discounts, discord access, stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting about. Just go check it out. It's worth it. I promise you. Okay. Let me buy. All right. Let's get back into it. Let go the skin of the elbow, the skin of the elbow. The wieness. The wieness. Watch it. Easy. Easy does it. Hold on. Okay. They talked about I'm I always I always talk about Jesse Michaels and American Alchemy. Just because I guess it's shrine at the house. It's actually in that closet that Joe. Did you move everyone? Yeah. I'm telling you though, go listen to that episode. It is called everyone watching me to go watch that. I think Jesse. I think Jesse Michaels is your new Joe Rogan. Oh, dude. Yeah, I would easily listen to Jesse Michaels over Joe Rogan. Oh, shots fire. That's a joke. I would never do that. Turns out Rogan. Rogan now wants to come on because of his competitive nature. Yeah. What do you mean? I'll ask Josh. So the episode is called why the Pentagon try to censor this UFO book. So what he does, Jake Barber, he writes a book, a fiction book. But he speculates of things that are confidential or top secret. But he's like, I'm like 100 or like 99% sure they're doing this. So fiction as in work comedy. Yeah. No, but he writes this and then sends it to the Pentagon. And then the Pentagon goes and blacks out the stuff that he was speculating on. Basically proving what he thought. I feel sci-op either. It's like two on the nose, you know? Yeah, I guess. But I mean, they talk about this thing called speaking of matter, materializing all this stuff. It's a complete and Jesse Michaels says is completely speculative. But this thing called foglets. And it's basically nanotechnology to where in this parallel so much with like project blue beam with the scientists going missing. But this there's basically there's proof to say that this is a real thing. But he was saying that they will not do a, what do you call it? A patent for this technology because as soon as you do a patent, then it's like it's really to the public, right? Public knowledge. Yes. But this foglets, he tells this story of like these, this same scenario to where there's military escorting these people in Mexico. And they got ambush by like something similar that happened in Indonesia with these guys and not US uniforms, but they're American. They had all the military equipment, black hawks, all this stuff. They take the guy out, the military guy, brutally, brutally, it's terrible. They knew his name too. All this stuff. But the story goes, I'm pretty sure this is from his book. Conventional weaponry. What do you mean? Like the op you're saying they took them out. Everything's conventional. Everything's conventional and at this point. Yeah. Okay. But they load these people up in a crate, a container, attached to the helicopter and they're flying. And the US satellites saw this whole incident take place. So like there's proof that there was another force out there. So like these generals are talking like, did you send an ops team to do this? Or they're like, they call it a black on black? Or he's like, is this a blue on blue, like meaning like friendly fires? Like no, it's a black on black, meaning like special operations against special operations. Very purposeful, purposeful, creepy stuff. Yeah. But they're flying this container of people that they just took. They sent to fighter pilots to come like basically tell them how you guys kind of go land. Yeah. They're flying by force, death, court situation. They're going through this valley and they say, hey, we can't get these guys to go down. So let's do a fly by super fast, high speed. They're in this canyon, flying all of a sudden, there's a mountain. And this guy is going supersonic speed. His electrical system goes out. He ejects going at supersonic speed. Pretty sure he died. Other pilots saw this happen. He crashes. But before they crash, they see this helicopter fly into the mountain. So like the mountain turned in through like a, they said it was 3D, then 2D, then completely transparent. They flew into it and there's a tunnel. And so this goes back to this whole foglets thing where it's like, it's the concept is like, it's basically tiny robots that can interlock arms to where it's like, you can create anything, you can create mountains, you can create clouds. They said, you can punch this thing. It's like, it can be used to match your biometric data too. So like in theory, like there's a mountain, you can punch it and your arm would go through if it matches your biometric data. But if it doesn't, boom, you're really punching a rock. It's the wildest, crazy thing and it's obviously completely speculative. But like there's so many scenarios to where people are like, I saw them and then it just disappeared into a mountain or into this into that into the ground. They call them portals. But it's like, there's something weird to it. Anyways, it's in that that episode. That's it. I'm done. That's scary. That's crazy. There's a. So the foglets sound a lot like nanobots, which is something Ray Kurzweil was talking about back when, so back when the matrix one came out in 99, I got into Ray Kurzweil and the age of spiritual machines book. He talks about projections, timelines of where the future holds and which by the way, he predicts that we'll have the singularity by 2045, which is the time when we can all, you know, unify consciousness and become one with the Gnostic Plairoma. But that's a whole nother thing we can talk about. But he talked about the nanobots heavily in the book. And I remember hearing it. I was like, that's crazy. It sounds like the stuff from the matrix where, you know, what's his name? Agent Smith, you know, he's able to sort of disintegrate and rebuild and do all this like kind of sci-fi stuff. And then it kind of like never sort of came to fruition. Yeah. G.C., they made a matrix for flies. What do you mean? You guys haven't seen this. We talked about it on Patreon once. We put the fly in the matrix. Yeah. Yeah. Where they like explain this is so basically they took flies brain matter. And now they have this like this functional, I think it was a flies brain matter or the brain matter. They made it to believe it was a fly at some point doing tasks. However, it works. They took brain matter and make it so that they can take this literal biological mass, program it. And now it on its own can play pong. It can do tasks. And so like this brain tissue lives in this game now to play pong. - Like they have it to code, they have it to work. They've cracked the code, they can now use it to compute tasks. The practical application of this is they're saying, like, you know, you thank quantum computers is the answer, well, we're gonna use like the brain to do math. When it's not in use to keep, 'cause the brain needs to continue to be used, or it, not disintegrates, but whatever the word, like there's an atrophy, yeah, an atrophy that takes place, they allow it to believe that it's a butterfly floating and flapping around. And so apparently a matrix of some sort exist in this thing, and then I'm really disappointed in my brother, 'cause he was asking my brother was on last week, and he was like, what should we talk about? 'Cause he's not like super in all this stuff, but I told him you're super in the Grand Theft Auto, and he was working on, he didn't do it, but he was working on a conspiracy where the next Grand Theft has it come out, is 'cause we already exist in it. Oh, yeah, that'd be good. - Stop, stop, stop. But, a panic attack, let's get it out. But it's like, I mean, yeah, the fact that that is groundbreaking science, and the fact that it isn't being discussed, either means it's complete TikTok garbage that I've bought into or it's something they don't want to be really out there. - Okay, this is, okay, so I've got a lot of strong feelings about this, because when it comes to, like I've had this phrase, I've said for many, many years, that these nerds are gonna kill us. (laughing) I don't believe that. - Put that on the shirt. - We need bullies, we need more bullies. - We need bullying, bring bullying back. But okay, so let me sort of like historically take us down this path of explaining science fiction, right, because they do fantasize about this idea of putting our chips, the knurling chip, right? And chipping us into the matrix, which to me is just the continuation of the program, going back to Kabala, putting us into what they call the capitalistic monad. This goes back to Plato, right? Plato talked about the one and Pythagoras. They talk about the one, meaning there is this idea that we can break free from this realm and be a unified consciousness. And you see this in so many different spy kids. Oh, is that in the storyline? - Kind of. - Oh, I never say that, I don't know. - You should. - Okay, all right. - No, it's a pencil, no fiction. - Mental, no. - It's better than the matrix, let me tell you. (laughing) So if you look historically at science fiction, right, you go back to 19th century. And you know those early, like amazing stories, those old school comics, right? They were called the Palps. And the reason they're called the Palps is because they were printed on cheap pulp paper, right? Now the guy that invented that was a, a cultist, he was a magician, sex magic guy, named Carl Kelner. He was the founder of what's called the auto template orientist, the OTO, which is a magic order. - Oh, yeah. - And he knew Aleister Crowley, right? - So, 'cause Crowley was in the OTO as well. So the first science, I mean, if you go back a little further, Frankenstein was kind of the first science fiction story, right? And science fiction sort of gave birth through this idea of, you know, alchemy and the golem, because Mary Shelley wrote this about legends of Johann Dippel's alchemist castle, where he was doing alchemy stuff in the 18th century, 17th century. So Frankenstein is this idea of man creating life on its own, which is what AI is planning on being, right? That's why these guys are obsessed with AI. But you go back into the history of alchemy and golems and this idea of infusing life into inanimate matter. Matter, excuse me. So the Palps come along and then they popularized ideas of aliens and people going to Mars and the moon and all this stuff, right? And this would influence so many occultist and scientists, like Constantine Soikovsky. And this is where all your ancient alien stuff comes from, by the way. Soikovsky and Jack Parsons, Werner von Braun, you know, the guy we brought over an operation paper clip and like, "Hey, watch your films with Disney movies "and tell people how great NASA is now one of the moon." 'Cause you know, you could trust them. So the Palps influence all these nerds, right? And then Crowley, Alistair Crowley, another prominent occultist in the early 1900s. He sort of creates the alien mythology in a way. I mean, he inherited ideas from Blavatsky who had these integrated ascended masters or the Mojotmos that she had been in contact with. And of course, making contact with entities goes way back through John D and the watchers and the Nephilim and all this stuff. But Crowley, he starts his own religion, basically an alien religion called Thelima. I mean, you talked about occultists, they'll be like, "Well, there's nothing to do with aliens. It has to do with making contact with your Holy Guardian Angel." And it's like, "Well, okay." - That sounds like aliens. - Sounds like aliens to me, right? And, you know, he had made contact with an entity called A-Waz, which he later identified as Lucifer. - Okay. - There he is. - Yeah, and he made contact with A-Waz through sex-magic rituals with his consort, the Scarlet woman they call her, right? And he proved that at this exhibit, 666, he found Horus. And he came up with this idea of like, "I'm gonna start the new age, the age of Horus." Again, these are massive rabbit holes, we're not gonna go down. - Sure. - So he creates this sort of alien religion. He takes the ideas of John D. So John D, let me rewind a little bit more. So John D, we're in like the 17th century-ish, not great with the dates exactly, but he was the astrologer for Queen Elizabeth. - Okay. - And so right there, you've got an occult art. Astrology is occultism. And this goes back through the watchers, the fallen angels, the top man kind. These occult arts. These forbidden arts that the Bible talks about, like, "Hey, don't be doing astrology. Don't be playing with crystals. Don't be doing all this. It goes back to forbidden knowledge is the idea, which surfaces in many, many incantations through ancient Egypt with thoth and hermese and Emerald tablets and corpus hermetic them and like, this just goes on and on and on and on, right? And that's what I said is like, I'm trying to consolidate this into like a one hour presentation because it's a lot of dense material, but when you put the pieces together, you say, "Oh, like, this is the exact thing "they've been working on forever." - Right, yeah. - So Crowley, he takes, so John D makes contact with entities, the angels, and they say, "Hey, you want to make contact with us?" Here's the language with which you can use, and he writes down the Anokian tablets. And this is the Anokian language that God spoke to Adam with. It's this whole idea that through incantation, you can make contact with entities. He later, you know, John D's super fascinating. He later made contact with an angel called Medimim. Medimim was like, "Hey, you know what? "You guys should bring about the apocalypse "because God wants you to feed him souls "and you should end the world." Sounds very familiar with what's happening now. - Yeah, eschatology plays a huge role. And again, I'm looking at all these pieces. I'm like, "Oh, no, they're going for it right now." Like they're running for the end zone right now. So John D is told by this angel, you should bring about the end times. And to do that, you need to swap wives with Edward Kelly, this guy who was doing the rituals with him, right? Edward Kelly, kind of a scumbag. He was a thief, a scumbag. And he was like, "Oh snap, I'm going to get "anyone John D's wife." Heck yeah, let's go. And John D, he was a little more conservative. He was like, "I don't know about that." And meanwhile, Edward Kelly's already got his pants off. He's ready to go. - And angel told me. - Yeah, exactly. - We got to listen to the angel. - He's in bed. Yeah, he's told me to go for it. - So they do it. John D's able, not able to sort of consummate the agreement Edward Kelly, of course, he does. So they don't successfully do this, but he gets all these visions of pale horses and the apocalypse and all this stuff. And he gets this message from the angels that we need to create a sort of new world order global government sort of vibe, right? So it goes back to there. Fast forward to early 1900s and Crowley takes the same in Nokia and language and creates his own ritual called the Amalantra Working in 1917. And he makes contact with Lamb, which is the first great alien depiction ever. - Oh, yeah, yeah, we see that. - Yeah. And he drew the, he does this Amalantra Working, which by the way, Jake Barber, remember, he was the guy who said the craft, you have all crafts that he was retrieving were eggs. - Right, yeah. - Well, that was also part of the Alice to Crowley rituals, the Amalantra Working, 'cause he was talking to this. Amalantra is like the name of the wizard that he was in contact with and the wizard showed him a vision of the egg and was like, it is your great work to go to Egypt and to locate the egg. - It's oh my gosh. - Yeah, I'm telling you like this is like, this is years of topics I've talked about on my show. - Yeah, geez. - So it's a lot to sort of like spit out. But the great work represents this idea of respiritualizing matter back into the Kabbalistic Monat. basically get rid of the human body and unify the consciousness into one field, which is what any new age occult thing, you drill down and that's where it goes, including Ray Kurzweil with the singularity stuff. It's all about like, let's put our brains into the matrix and just unify us as one big consciousness. It'll be great, right? So Crowley does this stuff and he makes contact with Lam, later draws it in a book about Lavazki. It doesn't really matter. And Jack Parsons becomes a big follower of Crowley, right? Jack Parsons, the guy who starts JPL labs, the first rocket scientist basically. Yeah. There's a crater named after Jack Parsons on the moon. Parsons heavily into science fiction. Loves the pulps and he also is like, that's where he got the idea of making a rocket 'cause he was like, oh, it's in these comic books. It must be real. We can do it. So he does this stuff. In all the while, he's doing like satanic rituals and sex magic and Crowley's the Lima and so on. And there's a whole, I read two books on them that are, I mean, he's just fascinating and his, his consort, Marjorie Cameron, she's even more fascinating. I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of like, how much time do we want to talk about these two? But so Parsons, he basically takes a modified version of Amalantra and calls it the Babylon working. I've heard that. A lot of people, this is kind of more common knowledge now. 10 years ago, this was like, nobody knew what the stuff was. But now with social media and revelation of the method going on, this is more talked about. So Parsons, he does a ritual with Elron Hubbard. Yes, that same Elron Hubbard. - How about, how about? - From the church of something, - Technology. - Yeah. - I'm not gonna say the words on here. So him and Elron Hubbard are out of the desert and they're doing sex magic rituals, basically. Now, with each other from what I understand, who is Elron Hubbard as the scribe and Jack Parsons, I don't know how to say it nicely with himself, right? - Okay. - So they're doing these sex magic rituals to incarnate the goddess Babylon, which in various texts you can see, Babylon is actually the horror of Babylon or the Sophia of Nosticism. These connections can all be made, right? And anyway, so he thinks, okay, I'm gonna incarnate the horror of Babylon. We're gonna procreate a child, the moon child, which will be the Antichrist, which will end the world as we know it. - Is it Jack Parsons? - Yeah. - Rocket guy. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's a wild story. So Jack Parsons, in February of '46, starts these rituals in March, he meets Marjorie Cameron and he says, "Oh, hey, El Ron Hubbard, guess what worked?" The rituals, I met my horror of Babylon, Marjorie Cameron, doesn't tell Marjorie Cameron her role in this whole thing. And he then moves on to the second stage of the ritual, which is to procreate with Marjorie Cameron. They officially never succeeded in this. However, you wanna get into weird, fringy, allegedly conspiracy stuff. I just finished a two-part episode on Michael Aquino, the guy with the big crazy eyebrows. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And again, these are each of these characters of the occult have just fascinating stories that you find all these connections with MK Ultra and all kinds of crazy stuff, child abduction, huge part of this story. But anyway, February of '46, they start the second part to create the moon child, officially they never have a child. However, October of '46, guess who was born, Michael Aquino, nine months after. Is it possible? Sure, anything's possible. I don't know if that's true. But supposedly, they try to consummate this ritual and Marjorie Cameron only finds out later. I believe after Parsons died that she was part of this ritual. - Oh. - Because after he died, she continues to have sex with him on the astral plane. - All right. - Yeah, sure. - Dude, hasn't. (laughing) - But what's interesting is that Parsons, like I said, he was into all this stuff. He wrote a book, I believe it's called Lieber 49, which is called the Antichrist, and he goes on and on and his whole thing. He wasn't necessarily saying literally, we're gonna make the world explode. He was saying, we're gonna destroy the world as we know it. We need to get rid of Christianity. He called it the lying hypocrisy of Christianity. So, he didn't like any religion, but Christianity was like the one problem, just like Crowley, just like Blavatsky. And I think, I mean, you could make arguments that religion is a control system, and I could hear those arguments, and I could say, you know, maybe you got a point there. But it's interesting how they always have the beef. The one beef is Christianity. That's the problem. - Interesting. - Even though a lot of these guys are influenced by narcissism, which even in narcissism, they admire Christ. They say, no, Christ was the one that came here to tell us the way and the path back to the pleroma, right? So anyway, so Parsons in 1949, he dies in '52, right? Supposedly, he was trying to create a golem again, this idea of alchemically creating life, but. - What is a golem? - It's like a. - It's a megal. - Yeah, that is the name, huh? Golem is the name of the Lord of the Rings guy. It goes back to. His rabbi, Judah Lowe, was a Kabbalist guy back in like the 1600s. And he was doing alchemical Kabbalistic processes to try to put life into an animate object, clay, right? And supposedly, he was able to do that. And he said, he programmed this golem to protect his people. And it eventually sort of got out of hand and started just going crazy, right? It's just like the Frankenstein story, basically. And on his forehead, he inscribed the letters EMET, which means life in Hebrew. And to sort of shut it down, he took the first E-off and now it's met, M-E-T, which means death. But that was supposedly like a real story, right? And they've been trying the stuff. Parsons try to golem at the Trinity test site when their first atomic bomb went off. Supposedly, there's a giant container called the Jumbo there, right? And inside the Jumbo, supposedly, he put a golem. An inanimate object that he was trying to use the energy from the Trinity blast to infuse life into this thing. - So, Parsons, he was a part of the Manhattan Project or was he indirectly affiliated with it? - You know, I don't think I can honestly answer that question. I don't know. - Okay. - It might have been indirectly. I mean, he was running in the same circles. I don't think he was necessarily there from what I'm trying to recall. But the Trinity site also super important in terms of the occult and the post-atomic age that we're living in. Because, man, I'm trying to look at the time. How much time are you gonna go? - You're good. - Okay. So, okay, so the Trinity blast and then we're gonna go back to Parsons and Cameron and bring it forward to what's going on today. So the Trinity blast, we're talking about July 16th, 1945. They do what's called the splitting of primordial matter. And this was an occult ritual. It got named James Shelby Downard wrote about this in a text called King Kill 33. And in it, he describes a Freemason cryptocracy that runs the world through ritual. And he says that the Trinity site location was chosen ritualistically because it's on what's called the Hornada del Muerto, which is the journey of the dead man, which originates down in Mexico in a bat cave where the devil supposedly lives according to Mexican lore. So the Hornada del Muerto has all these sort of strange occult things along the way. And it culminates with the Trinity site where they did this atomic bomb where they split the atom. Again, you've got this idea of opposing polarities and you're splitting these polarities in a way. And it's sort of the most fundamental alchemical process. Now what's interesting is that when they did this, the scientists at the time thought, hey, there's a chance that this could ripple and like destroy the whole world. Like it could ripple through the environment and like everything's gone. Like that was one possibility, but they did it anyway, right? That's how dangerous, you know. And I've got science degrees, like I'm not like some Luddite who's like, no, science is terrible. Like I'm not saying that, but you have to understand that some of these people are inspired by I think demonic things. Again, going back to the pulps and Crowley's buddy Carl Kellner. So the Trinity, the Trinity bomb goes off. And after the Trinity blast, they say that the veil was thin between worlds because of this thing. This goes back through Oscar Yannager, the guy who was the architect of the Hoover Dam, talked about this in his book, Kenneth Grant, another very famous magician that was an accolade of Crowley says the same thing. It's depicted in twin peaks, which I'm a huge twin peaks nerd. We could talk about that for another five hours if you guys want to hang out, but so this blast happens. The veil's now thin. And that's the time that we get a UFO crash. A lot of people think Roswell was the first crash. No, it was the Trinity crash in '45. Just weeks after Dr. Jacques Vallet and Paula Harris, I was able to interview both of them. - No way. - Yeah, that's cool. - Yeah. Dr. Jacques Valet is fascinating. That's the guy. Him and Peter Levento are the two guys. I think they can understand everything going on because they both have a knowledge of the occult and science and all these things happening. And in fact, I asked Dr. Jacques Valet about this stuff and he said, he's a very interesting guy. He speaks kind of in code and riddle a little bit. Like, you know, some of these guys are so smart. They're like, you gotta like focus in. So he's talking to me. I'm like, what is he saying? And then I had to relisten to it. And he was saying that he said that going back to Prague, which I connected the dots afterwards. It was like, oh, Prague is where that first golem happened. He said, we have to go back in history and look at things that were forbidden and try to understand them today if we want to understand the phenomenon. Meaning all of these suppress the cult sciences, alchemy, all these things that the church and the people were like, this is all demon worship, we can't do that. Like, they've been doing it this whole time. And if we want to understand it, we have to go back and understand this whole stuff. - Sure. - Interesting. - Yeah. So, okay, so let me wrap up the conversation here. So the Trinity crash, UFO crash happens and a boy named Jose Padilla seized aliens and goes inside the craft and does all this stuff and collects artifact from it, right? And the government, they research this obviously. They go and clean up the crash site. His cousin later would marry Lonnie Zamora, the cop who, I'm sorry, his cousin Lonnie Zamora would go into marry the cop who witnessed the Sakura in New Mexico crash, another very famous crash. So, the government starts saying like, hey, what the heck's going on here? And then you had the Roswell crash in '47. And that's when they employ what's called the Collins elite. If you guys heard of the Collins elite. - Yeah, yeah, that's the term I was looking for. - Okay. - Yeah. So the way the story goes is that the government, the Pentagon is like, hey, we need to investigate what's going on here. 'Cause like I said, Parsons starts the Babylon working in '46 and then you get the UFO crash. And it's all part of the lore of how UFOs came to be because Crowley started a UFO religion, basically. Parsons continued it. Parsons talks about it many times in his text about UFOs being the sign of Crowley entity. He drew UFOs. He saw him and Marjorie Cameron saw a cigar shaped UFO which, to him confirmed that she was the horror of Babylon. When he saw it, it was like signs in the sky. Just what father, Seraphim Rose talks about. He's like, what were the men prepared to see? It was again, all influenced by science fiction. So Parsons and Marjorie Cameron do this ritual. Collins elite starts researching all this stuff. They're like, hey, we got like Satanists doing weird sex magic rituals and aliens crashing. What the heck's going on? And the Collins elite, they're of course going down to the same rabbit hole I'm taking everybody on right now. And they're like, hey, you know what? There's some connection between these satanic sex magicians and aliens. Like they're doing stuff and it's like making contact with entities and like, this is dangerous. We need to be careful, but the Pentagon, right? They're like, hey, we want to make a weapon out of this. How can we do this? How can we use this, right? And it comes elite for all these years. Had this influence to be like, no, you're going to be making like Faustian bargains with a devil. You can't do this. blah, blah, blah, and fast forward to 2021 or so. And Louis Elizondo from the Pentagon program says, he admits that the Collins elite exists. He says, yeah, there was these bunch of old heads hanging out and telling us we were trying to make contact with the devil. Ha, ha, ha, glad they're out of the way now. Kind of scary, right? Yeah. So, uh, so the Collins elite, they unofficially exist and research UFOs this whole time. And what's interesting is that Parsons in 49 says that the horror of Babylon, um, I'm sorry, the Sophia that they're trying to sort of incarnate to end the world, the Sophia is going to be birthed within seven years. Seven years later, Dartmouth coins the term artificial intelligence. Wow. I think it's connected, right? Yeah, it's got it. And Marjorie Cameron, let me, let me take five seconds to talk about her because she's super interesting. I did a three episodes on her because she's so fascinating. She would, uh, after Parsons accidentally killed himself in 52. She would go on to hang out in with all these like new age, mystic UFO weirdos and one of them was Kenneth anger, who was a prominent, um, film director and a cultist and Crowleyite, Thalima, all that stuff. And he plugs into this world, uh, like he had Bobby Bosele from the Manson family in his like band and the movies. Oh, well, he created a movie called Loose for Rising that had Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithful and like all these huge figures, right? And this is all right before ultimate. And then Mick Jagger has ultimate happen where he sees Meredith Hunter get murdered and all this chaos. And that's when Mick Jagger sort of tapped out on the occult stuff. I was like, Hey, there's too much weird stuff happening, right? And for Mick Jagger doesn't step out because the weirdness is, that's, that's got to be a lot. It's a lot. So, so, uh, Kenneth anger is interesting because he's the guy that's credited as the godfather of MTV and TV. Of course, very influential, right? We see, we see all these influential, uh, music videos that are, you know, every, every Christian like growing up in my church, like MTV was the devil. It's like, oh, you don't watch that stuff. And, you know, they might have had a point, right? Yeah. To be fair. Uh, but yeah, Margaret Cameron, she becomes best ease was kind of thanger. They start taking hormone pills to sort of, um, fuse together as one entity. Like, yeah, they're trying to like sort of like gender bend into each other. And later, Genesis PO Ridge from Throbbing Gristle. Again, these are, I know you guys are like, what are you talking about? Um, someone else would do that later, who was a prominent sort of occultist. Uh, and her, her child, Genesis was her child's godfather. And they were like feeding her child LSD at the age of nine. Like crazy stuff in this crisis. It's also saying, Margaret Cameron's like super fascinating. So anyways, Margaret Cameron, uh, she also starts depicting. She draws paintings and one of them is like her pro, I'll say pro creating with an alien, right? And she would then marry a guy named Sheridan Kimmel, who, guess what? He was in, he said that he was having sex with aliens on UFOs. And he had an alter ego named ball that he would channel my goodness. And then I mean, it just goes on and then she would marry a guy named Bert Schoenberg, who, um, was actually the same thing he was into like alien contact. And he would do LSD with the Oscar, Dr. Oscar Janiger from like the MK Ultra stuff. Wow. Same guy who gave out as Huxley LSD. It's all connected. It's, I'm telling you, it's all connected. That's what I'm saying. It's like this crazy like, and I mean, this is, I've been researching this for 15 years. And it's only now starting to like the puzzle pieces are falling together. I'm like, okay, I kind of get where we're going with all this, but it takes a long time to get there, uh, which is like, kind of maddening as a, to watch the phenomenon stuff sort of get leaked out and people questioning what's going on here. And I'm, I mean, of course, I've got my own filter and worldview. So like, I could be very wrong about all this, but I don't think I am. And the monetization saved. No, I mean, that's great. So you're seeing all this stuff coming out with like the aliens and UFOs and stuff and you know, this has just been part of the plan forever. Like they've been building up to this moment. Yes. And science fiction led us down the path. And that's where Father Rose was absolutely correct. Yeah. Like the science fiction, it's like, I have this thing where, I don't know if it's like an original idea, but this idea I present is thoughts become belief become reality. And it's, it's kind of like things can sort of manifest if you focus enough energy on it. Now I, I'm also like, I don't think we put a man on the moon. I don't believe that. I think that was Cold War propaganda. Nice. Hot take. But, but there's this, there's, and we can go again, another like two hours. I can't convince you guys too, I think. But this whole thing of science fiction is influencing us. And that's where I'm stuck today, because I think with with AI rolling out and them telling us like, Hey, the singularity is near. And we're going to channel these AI gods. I think that if that's true, and I don't know that it's true, could be just them reading too much comic books. But if it's true, I think that what they would do is convince us that it's real. They would take AI entities and try to fuse it into like a robot or something to make us believe that, Oh, this is a god. We need to sort of have it control us and tell us what's what to do. It ever see Westworld. Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you watch all the way through like to the fourth season or fifth season? No, I just the first season. Okay. Yeah. So like later on, it goes into this thing with Rehoboam is like this AI consciousness that controls all of humanity. And it's sort of like minority report with the precogs where they know when someone's going to commit a crime. And it's like the all knowing, you know, it's the all knowing thing. And it I think that whether or not it's true that because there's a theory that AI is nonhuman intelligence from the or us from the future or something like that. And I certainly don't know if that's true or not. I think it's interesting. Yeah. Regardless of whether that's true or not, I think that there's a plan to convince us that it's true. So that we can and that's what bugs me is that these nerds want to control society according to their worldviews. And yeah, I want to call with nerds, right? I got a master's in systems engineering. These nerds are like on some next level of like, I don't know how to say it nicely but they, their values of humanity and empathy aren't quite the same as the rest of us I would say. Yeah, I mean, it was evident in that interview with like Peter Teal, right, where he was like saying like, do you want humanity to whatever it continued to exist, or whatever, and like you took just a giant pause because like, this is a long pause. He's like, well, he's like, what do you mean? Or go the gates route where he's like, definitely not there are too many of us. Yeah, it's, it's, that is interesting. I mean, because obviously these billionaires, these tech guys, they don't care about human life, you know, it's like, it's just power, money, influence. And it's, it's just, it's a weird, but it's like, that comes from something, you know, it's like, you go back to that whole just occultist stuff. It's like, there's, it seems like there's an intention with this knowledge-based stuff. Like, and you can throw everyone else aside. Do you care if I take a moment to ruin Jesse Michaels for you? Just leave Rogan alone. Yeah. Rogan's, Rogan's also, like, I think Jesse sometimes listens to his podcast. Okay, well, like I said, I think he's a very intelligent guy. Yeah. No, and the same with Robert, like, I'm so, I'm so black-filled into the conspiracy world that I don't trust anybody, right? That doesn't mean that I'm correct. That just means that I look, view some of these personalities with a grain of salt and anyone who makes it to that level, I heavily question. Sure. I mean, that's fair. That's very fair. Yeah. And Jesse, you know, he's on Peter Tills payroll, right? You know, they're on it. Nope. Yeah. He's on Peter Tills payroll. Look at the details on it. I want to say he's funded through the founders fund or something, something like that. He's in the ballpark or worked for him at one time or something to that effect, which would explain why this guy, I mean, I don't know his full history, but I hadn't heard about the guy until a year ago. Oh, yeah. He's got Peter Leventon. I'm like, what the hell? I'm trying to get Peter Leventon for 10 years. What's going on? He does pull some crazy interviews. Well, we were for Peter Tills for a while too. We did an internship. Yeah, we had some complications. Yeah, it's not a big deal. funds the pot a little bit. And it's not a big deal. Jesse Michaels has worked for Peter Tills, though he operates as an independent creator. Michaels has an intensive background adventure capital and has explicitly stated that he worked as an investor at Teal Capital. Wow. That's interesting. I mean, does that I can guilty of anything? I'm not saying no, but that was confused. Just facts. I just think it's weird. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like a, he's a hero of mine, but I question a lot of Joe Rogan lately, too, because I'm like, he's got half of the finance years pay people involved on this show. Now what is this? Well, I mean, yeah, you look at it like the CIA and even maybe pass that so that we don't even necessarily know about. If there's anyone with an influential voice, they're going to want to take control of that, right? Because they want a narrative painted. Right. And that's why our views are down. So because when I am. Well, we're trying to, yeah, we're trying to stay here in this real space of one point, something million times. Yeah. Don't, don't get us to two. We don't want to get there. And I'll, and I'll sort of play devil's advocate here, right? It's possible that, you know, Joe Rogan, who a guy I've followed him for many years, right? It's possible him and like Jesse Michael's, they have some of these voices on there. And it could just be because someone there, you know, they're, their levels beyond where I'm at by far. And it could be that they're in these circles of power. And they say, Hey, you know what? You should have Peter Leventon there. And Jesse Michael's is like, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, let's have him on there. And it could be just as innocent as that. I have no idea. Yeah. But I do know that with the phenomenon and all this stuff, there's a lot of incentive and a lot of energy being put into putting this idea out of the masses through certain voices. And I, I just think it's strange because I went down this rabbit hole of the dark enlightenment back in 25. I did like a six episode series on the dark enlightenment. And that's why I'm skeptical of the whole thing. That's why I, yeah, yeah, that's smart to be. I mean, like, you got to question things at first. You got to, you can't just, you know, just accept it as it is. And right because a lot of the money for this. So it's weird when you follow the money on a lot of things. How it yeah, yeah, yeah. And like with Jesse Michaels, the thing that made me first suspicious was that he was on Joe Rogan. And then Joe Rogan was on his show like Joe Rogan doesn't do interviews. That's crazy. That's a crazy pull, right? And again, no clue. He seems like a really intelligent guy. I don't know. And he could just be plugged in. And his dad was like doing some weird stuff with psychiatry with embracing the shadow. Just stop. It's all love. It's all love. I didn't know Jesse Michaels was a venture capitalist who does his investing for teal capital. That's what it says. Like he works and he runs events for the family office known as that teal capital. So he runs events for a teal capital and invests for teal. Hey, Jesse. Hello, have anything good? Yeah, you're missing. You're missing it, dude. He looks for the next thing. We're trying to grow this. We're trying to grow this thing, man. We can get famous. Come on. I won't be sad if you cut this part out. It's probably good. No, we have to leave it. We just got an email. Peter LeVenda wants to be on the pod. You're in. Yeah, well, let's talk more about it. Let's talk about Patreon. Is that cool? Yeah, dude, for sure. Oh, I got it. We can we can be a little more loose. You see on Patreon with the stuff that we talk about Josh. Josh needs to take a lap and a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So download the Patreon app. Go to patreon.com/ninjasabotiflies. We're going to continue this conversation with Isaac. We're going to hopefully dive in some weirdo things. Yeah. Things that YouTube won't allow. Yeah. So check that out. Tell everyone where they can follow you. Plug all your podcasts where they can find you. I've got a podcast called cult symbolism and pop culture. Find it everywhere. I recently relaunched my third attempt at growing on YouTube at a cult symbolism as that channel. Please subscribe. This is twice it's taking me down. Oh, my goodness. I'm telling you and I try to be very careful with what I say, but that's scary. You know, it's I'm too close to the truth man. That mean kind of right. That's like I used to joke around about it. But now I'm kind of like, I don't know maybe, right? Yeah. I'm on YouTube and the podcast as a cult symbolism and pop culture. I'm kind of I'm kind of on Amazon too. I've written nine books. Amazon Audible. You can find me. Isaac. What on Kubrick, right? Yeah. Kubrick's code. That's so cool. And those are my early my first three books. Like when I look at them today, they're kind of cringy to me because I'm like, I was kind of, you know, I was just learning how to write a little bit. But I did two recently called aliens UFOs in the occult user illusion one and two, which I wrote in 2020, which everything's been sort of panning out as true. What I said, right? And then my most popular book is The Dark Path. I wrote in 2017, which again, kind of prophetic in a way because a lot of the things we talk about with the occult and the alien agenda turned out to be kind of true. So yeah, I'm kind of everywhere depending on your preference. Yeah, we're going to have to like be kind of derogatory towards him in our introduction when we set this up. So this guy gets some idiot on here. We don't we don't know what he's talking about. No, we just got trapped in the interview. And so we had a lot of finish. We got to post content. So we don't believe any of it. It's all fake. Isaac, thank you so much for coming on. This was yes. A treat. And honestly, it would be sick if you could come back. Yeah, I would love to absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, guys. Yeah. Please go follow. Go support them. Go to patreon. Go to send it cool swag.com. Get merch today. We love you guys. Thank you so much. Bye bye. Bye. So open style. We got.