#185 - Fernando Nikolić - AI, One-Person Companies & The New Economic Elite

I run a company now and I'm the only person in the company, the only human in the company. I'm so deep in it and while I'm in it, it's so profound that I don't even know what it all means. But I know everything's going to change. It took me 11 days to build that. Okay. I used to have an agency build this stuff. It would have taken me, I don't know, where I'm at now, it would have taken 15 people a year and a half and a million pounds a bit. I built it on my own, no help in two weeks. The value of paying for that makes somebody else do that job for you is gone down to zero. What does a company look like in five years? Right. I don't know what this all means. What does democracy look like? What does money look like? If we go into this kind of like, I don't know, exponential AI growth where there's the massive amount of productivity, but it's all unevenly distributed to a wealthy class. I don't know what that means for everyone else. All these monopolies are done and we are now like in the middle of that time where all of these things are just coming crashing down, but we don't know what to build. How do we avoid the permanent underclass? This show is brought to you by my lead sponsor, Iron, the AI Cloud for the next big thing. Iron builds and operates next generation data centers and delivers cutting edge GPU infrastructure all powered by renewable energy. Now, if you need access to scalable GPU clusters or are simply curious about who is powering the future of AI, check out iron.com to learn more, which is iren.com. Yo, Fernando, I don't even know where to start this. All I know is I think I'm in a similar place with you with AI. I've definitely got the AI side cases. I would say about six months ago, I'd lost my mojo. It can be bothered to work to do four or five hours a day. I recommend doing no less than 15 hours a day for the last month and I have one day where I did, what 19 hours did? Yeah, I'm so deep in, I don't even want to call it vibe coding because I think that's an insult to what I'm doing. I'm so deep in it and while I'm in it, it's so profound that I don't even know what it all means, but I know everything's going to change. What was the catalyst that God should like to go really deep? Was it like a specific model or was it one use case that you saw? Are they blue or mine? Then you went on the rabbit hole? What was the catalyst? Somebody said to me if you played around with Claude because I was a chat GBT or a playbook complexity, playbook rocker uses them for different use cases. Somebody said just play with Claude. So I put a prompt in and it popped up for an answer and multiple choice. That's cool. Why does a chat GBT do that? Then I had to do another thing. I was trying to filter some data. I said, can you do a multiple choice, but can you do it with graphics to show me this? It did. I was like, huh, that's cool. So I was like, can you help me build a to-do list? It did. It popped up this H2 Mail to do list. I was like, okay, I need a column for each business. I want priority items. And I just built a to-do list. Funny thing was, I played with that to-do list for two days, ticking stuff off. Idiot here didn't realize there's no database behind it when I closed Claude. It got rid of it. That was a man. I was like, what can you do with this? Then last month, I have built so much stuff. I mean, I'm here to interview you, but I've built a system for the football club, a system for the podcast. I've built a system which tracks tweets by politicians and grades their truthfulness. I've built a delivery tracker that tracks my deliveries and tells me when they come in. I'm just building non-stop stuff. But these systems I've built huge. The one for the football club is a system for management with the operations, a team data system, a website with a content management system, email delivery system, inventory management, it's like everything. It would have taken me, I don't know, where am I now? It would have taken 15 people a year and a half and a million pound a bell. I'd build it on my own, no help in two weeks. Yeah, I know. I think a lot of people are realizing, you included that UIs, front-end coding is just dead in terms of its commoditized and the value has gone down to zero. You start to realize that everything is code. I create agents that create videos for me, animations and graphics and stuff like that. I thought you needed to be a designer with access to very specific software tools that was all about video in order to process these things. It's literally code that you just tell your agents to build for you and it comes out in whatever format that you want. CMS can be a backing, can be a frontend, can be video playing in real time. Everything is code. When everybody has suddenly got access to it, it's just the value of paying for that, makes somebody else do that job for you. It's gone down to zero. It's the printing press for software, right? That's exactly what it is. It's completely opened it up. The breakthrough moment for me wasn't the fact that I could build a system which is a bunch of relational tables. I won't even use the right language in this thing, by the way. I created my first GitHub repository under poor requests. I'm setting up Devon main branches. I'm using the cell. The deployments. I've set up environment variables. I'm setting up, I've got, what was the other thing I use? Super bass. But my use at the moment is, "Plord tells me I copy, paste and then deploy." A lot of the time, I question Claude on the thesis. We develop the thesis. I don't question a code. It gives me, I test it, it doesn't work. No, it doesn't work. Fix it. The real breakthrough moment for me wasn't just creating a, okay, here is the team. Here's the list of the players. That bit's all easy. Here's the stuff. The breakthrough moment for me was, we use Squarespace for our website. There's limitations for what you can do. It doesn't have a module for a fixture list. It doesn't have a module for a league table. The league table is a bit of copy and paste code for somewhere else. It doesn't look right on the site. The way we build fixtures is we just copy and paste a panel that I got some Squarespace developer to code for me. We've got three years of fixtures in one place. I got a design done by Claude. I'll say, this looks amazing. Then I said to Claude, "Can you build me a CMS so I can edit this?" It did. It was crappy. It was like homepage fuel. I spent three days taking how Squarespace did and providing instructions and build it the same. I had a framework of pages, preview, preview in mobile code. I can edit elements in page in the page. I can duplicate the move them up and down. I can do the SEO. Honestly, I just say, "I'm. " The funny thing was, Claude said, "We can't do this." Squarespace was going over 20 years. I did it. I built it in three days. It's 75% of the way there. I can get 100%. I can get 100% of the way there. The only thing I can't bridge is the knowledge cap of things they know I don't know. I've bridged the visual experience. I've now done the same with MailChimp. We can get the emails exactly how we want. But I can have a fixture module and I can have a table module. All I use is I just use MailChimp for distribution now. Absolutely. It's absolute cinema. The productivity levels, the stuff that I have made for me by my arsenal of agents is not only letting me do this super fast and learn and also learn along the way. I don't think it's such a. I don't think it's super passive. You learn as you chat and they top up, I can't explain things for me. I'm always very keen on the agents explaining stuff to me. Explain why you did that. What was your thought process? What was your decision-making steps here? And when it does that, I'm like, "Okay, I understand how engineers think a little bit more now. It's going to school while getting shit done." But not only the productivity and the speed, it's obviously the cost as well. If I wanted to start my company solo, if this was five years ago, even not even that long ago, I would probably have to go the VC routes, get alone or take savings or whatever. I have a profit margin of 94%. What are you spending on inference? On infrastructure? Infrains on tokens. Oh, dude, I have Google AI Ultra, which is 200 bucks. It was 250 a month. It's now gone down to 200 to be more competitive with the Claw 20X Max plan and those top tier models of the non-API AI. That's what I'm paying, 200 bucks. Well, I'm going over that. I've got the Claw 20X Max plan or whatever. They restock me on a Friday. I'm done by Sunday Monday. I reckon this month I'll do 10 grand at least. Okay, but that's peanuts, still, compared to what you would pay if this was five years ago. Alright, let's be honest, how much random shit are you carrying with you every time you leave the house? And that's if wallet full of cards, you don't use and receipts you don't need. And what about your keys? How many are on your set that you don't even know? know what they open anymore. Now listen I travel all the time for my podcasts, football, meetings, events, and I too carry way too much stuff. And so this is where Ridge comes in. Now I first heard about Ridge on the Dave Smith show. It's my bought one. So when they reached out to me and they were like "Can we sponsor the show?" I was like "Guys, we've already got it and I love it." So then they asked me "Have I ever had the key case?" And I was like "Guys, tell me more." So this is the Ridge wallet and it holds all my cards, which I'd previously been hiding in my iPhone case, which is pretty dumb really. And this is my key holder, which sounds stupid until you use it and realize how annoying loose keys really are in your pocket. And this is it. This is all I carry around with me. These are my phone. No big wallet and no losing my card because I left it in the back of my iPhone case. There no stupid, big bunch of keys jangling around in my pocket. Now I know some of you are going to be like "No P, I need that wallet and all that useless crap." Trust me, as someone who switched to Ridge, you really don't. So if you want to check it out, Ridge are often listeners of my show, 10% off. Just head over to Ridge.com/mccormac and use the code "cormac". That is Ridge.com/mccormac and you can get 10% off. The thing that's got me and makes me realize, I don't want to say we're fucked, but a lot of people are fucked. I'll show you my laptop afterwards. So have you built just one system? Okay, so I have kind of like everything. I have database, I have APIs, I have a lot of thousands of rows of data coming in through a system that enriches it, structures it, cleans it, analyzes it, and then presents it in an app or dashboard. And through APIs that I sell to other people or MCP where a lot of companies who are using stuff like Clawd, they connect to that data through the MCP. So I can. One company. Is one company gathering a bunch of data from a lot of insane sources that are expensive, tedious, and hard to do it yourself? I do that for you, I sell it back to you for a fraction of what it would cost you to build up the same infrastructure essentially. So I'm going somewhere with this. So I've built now four systems, three different companies, one's got two systems. Okay. And they're all starting to take the same shape because I understand what I'm doing with it now. And so one thing that this is the thing that blows my mind, why I'm not sure what this means. So I build out the structure, I say, what would a media company look like? Give me every department, finance, HR, commercial, production, everything. I might tell me every person who works in that company and it gives me them. I then get it to write the most elite experience skill for each of those people. I put them in a department. Every week they have a meeting. But what I have is what are my objectives? I said, in every meeting, the director sets an agenda and distributes to everyone. And everyone from their point of view has to think about what their department offers the business, plus also the lens of the business objectives. Have a meeting, print the minutes, come up with your findings and then your recommendations. Now they have an immediate, it's like 12 meetings a week. I'm getting hundreds of recommendations. So I built a grading system. So I have a recommended tab and it grades them on the most impactful upon what we do. So we can cycle through it. So that was like hold on a second. We have a podcast. I mean, today it's me and Connor. Connor edited it. We'll publish it. We'll promote it. But behind that, we now have the infrastructure and abilities of one of the best media companies in the world. And it's all automated. Yeah. Do you want to show it? Can you get it up? Right. If you go to, go to the AI team. This is for our podcast, right? On the left. So that's the board report. Scroll down past that. There's all your AI teams or your AI people. That's all the today they've had the data analytics meeting, the technology and the editorial meeting. Go and click on one of the people, come down the bottom. There you go. That's their skills. So if you go back, come, go up to the top to the goal. I go to the go to the recommendations. That's everything that's come out all graded on things we should do. Look at that. I mean, we can't keep up with it. No, exactly. Yeah. So I mean, that's just one section. But like the amount of things we built Keith, go to Keith. This is the AI that knows everything right. Just because I'm clear might to do list down the bottom there. So it just comes up. All the things you've got to do and help you like work through as quickly as possible. We've got so much stuff in there. Go to the analytics section. Come on. Like I'm always trying to get the analytics like specifically how I want them. There we go. It's all in there now. Emph. Episodes. We have like the you should be in here. You'll be in there. Yeah, you go. Like we can track through everything's been done. It's been recorded. Have we uploaded? Like it's that beautiful. Okay. It's like insanity. Yeah. But like so. Yeah. Before I'd done this, before I'd have all this playing around that you give it to that. I'm playing around with this. I was kind of like, yeah, AI is course. But you know, and you'd hear all these duma takes and all these ones about all the jobs are going to go. And you're like, yeah, I maybe. I know now. What I don't know is I don't know what the bridge between now and say five years as I don't know what happens in there. I think there's going to be a shit ton of productivity. Loaves of money made, but the distribution might not be great. I have so many thoughts about this. Yeah. Tell me where you're heading. I think about this a lot. I mean, first of all, what you showed me here is that, okay, design doesn't really matter to you that much because there's a lot of like the standard kind of like homogenized design that clogged gives you with the, you know, the cards with the border on the left. That was me. That was me. That was about the fifth version. I got to really. Okay. Yeah. But I've come further. Design does matter. Oh, I should show you the football world because I've taken it further. Okay. Yeah. Like I saw some stuff that is like very like one of the things that is very common when it comes to like AI designing stuff. That's why I said, yeah, I totally. Yeah. So did go fuck yourself. Yeah. But it's like it's the underlying corpus that I think really matters, right? It's what you find here. It's the insights. It's the gaps that you might not have identified yourself because it will take you insane amount of time and mentally taxing to comb through all that information or to come up with a, with that list that you got right? All right. Let me show this. So this is one I've built in for the football club. So this looks nice. Yeah. So I got to a new iteration. Go and click on the navcon. Go and watch what happens. Any one of those items. Oh, look at that. Oh, it's like that. But the insane thing I want to show you is the stuff. I used to have an agency. We couldn't build this stuff going to AI brain on the very left. Con. That like where it's got me. Click on there and go to go to the admin center. So I was like, there's the roadmap. I'm just going to build it and go up to the top of the icon. Put the style guide next to it. Down, down, go down there. So now I've built the complete style. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that. All the classes in because it's not very good at CSS, right? Right. Right. Go up to the top. Come. Go to go to documents. So yeah. I'm just going on there. That's not done what exactly what I want. That's first time I've seen that by the way. That's the principle of PDF and presentation documents. Go up again, Con. This is but I love concepts. So I now have version in for pages. And so if I don't like a page, I can get it to version it and I have a version history. I keep going back to the top. Forget the commands and access rights is cool. So it's built like how the access rights to the system work. Go to yeah. And then the next of that go to portals. Actually, all the different portals that I built off it for me to access. But the really cool thing is like, I will have I will test and I'll get like two pages of bugs in their meds. And I'll send it to it. And it's like, how do I QA this? If you go back up to AIT braincon left testing. See what it says, test in. Click that off. Yeah. So here. Now if you got to the very top. See what says wave six, Con. Click on that. That's every wave of a man's I send. So I'm open it back up. Scroll down to anyone. See it's got a test button, Con. If you click that, it takes you to that's that's weird. It's a bug. But it'll take you to the page where the bug is. Right. And then I can click put the feedback and then I copy it all out. Send it back. Is that yeah. Is that and but do you know what I realized? We're building a pyramid here. Because I don't know if you've had this. You can't even know this and make you more productive. You still can't build as quick as you can think. Yeah. Because I build and I'm like, I can make this more efficient. Here's a new layer. Here's a new layer. This can be automated. And so I'm I'm kind of wiping myself out eventually. Yes. I've knocked the first few rungs of the ladder off but the rest are going to go. And in the end, I'm just going to sit there talking to a robot. I was going on to never. Yeah. Yeah. Do that. I think that pyramid is kind of what I'm building as well. And it's a counter realization where you need to spend enough time with a very specialised agents that you just train is like getting a new headcount to your company. and you have all these documents ready for whoever comes in who doesn't know the company. And it's like, okay, go ahead and read this. And then after you're done and you have instilled this into your memory, we're going to do live action takes and see how you perform. And then I'm going to score you on your performance and then you iterate on that. And then it has to go to a point where you feel comfortable with that agent doing what it's job's intended to be and you get out of the way. Like you would if you were the CEO. You don't want to micromanage a junior manager. But you kind of want to be there in the beginning and then make sure that they have the right tools in order in order to be successful at your job. So exactly the same as humans interacting with each other, just one human interacting with agents. Well, it develops like a mid-level developer in that it interprets the brief about 80% right? And when it delivers back its results, it's got about 80% of it right. And then we fix it like in each. It's a half to spend it 50. It'll take five runs to get it right. Because it'll just all undo work. It's done or go rogue and like I lost one thing to change it will change something else. Yeah, yeah, which is just because it's a computational system. Right, right. I mean humans, a team of humans who would code this would also run into bugs and do some errors and find bugs and that just squash the bugs. That's always part of like product development. So it's not like humans would do it perfectly. AI is a reflection of humans in that sense. Yeah. That they need training, they need context, they need references and it's not a perfect world. So it's always going to be some iterations. But if you want to do a lot of things at once, you will be putting yourself in a very dangerous position where yeah, you think productivity is high, but you're just like in the hamster wheel of just doing the same thing all over and over with different agents or with different scopes. But it's essentially the same exact job. I had this crazy day. The day I did 90 now, it's right. I was working on five things. I know. I got up and I'm assuming, I mean, do you get up and yeah, I know you do this. I know the answer is yes. You wake up at 2 in the morning and go, well, that works. I'm a bit of going to give some more work to do. Yeah. Yeah. And so I got up one morning about six and I finished about one in the morning the next day. I mean, I had like a break for the person. That was like, yeah, make a coffee. But it was one of those days I was working on five systems at the same time. And I've got this like North Star where I'm trying to get them all to like a V1 that we can work with. So the podcast one is pretty much a V1. I haven't worked on that for a week. There's two other components which I think will be probably by Wednesday V1 where I want to step back on features. That's why I'm doing roadmaps. Yes. I'm doing roadmaps. No, you're V2, V2, V2. Just so I can let it breathe and let myself live. Yeah. But this one day and there's that gap. You know, when you send an instruction to use, Croad. Yeah. Yeah. You send an instruction and then you know it's going to be, it's going to reply within a minute, maybe with some questions. And there's going to take five, 10, 15, 20 minutes to do it. And there's that gap. And so what I would do in that gap, I would go to the next thing and the next thing. As I would go, blow up, type in, you do this. Right. Oh, that one's done. Right. Blue dot copy, paste, excuse me. Yes. And I was just like, and I was like, I don't know if this is actually really unhealthy. I don't know. It is unhealthy. I don't know if my brain can cope. I don't know if I'm damaged in myself. But that's what happened. There's also like a real life example of like when you're in the boss, you need to be very picky about the stuff that you decide to do. And it's hard because now you have the ability to do every fucking thing. Dude, I saw this tree. This guy put out. He was like pre-Croad. I was a developer with 15 unfinished projects. Post-Croad, I've got 180 unfinished projects. I was like, I get that. Yeah. No, totally. So I think when it comes to code, things are binary. It either works or not. Right. So if you can get to the point where you trust an agent to do coding related stuff and it's solid, you can let a lot of these things run autonomously. If you have like a good enough harness. That's what I do with the data side of my business. It's like, okay, give me a notice if something crashes and the database is on fire. But if there's a little bit of a, I don't know, one row in a database that is not enriched properly. Okay. You have to run automation sort of scheduled task that checks for these things. And if they find it, they don't send it to me. They send it to another agent who has the skills to go and take a look and fix it. And then that's it. Only let me know. And things are burning and not fucking working the way they supposed to. That might cause a bad user experience for my paying customers. That's when you involve me in. You got to get to that level where you just, you have a very solid harness that is like letting somebody. You have to trust somebody with your most possessed, most priced possession. Are you building agents with open cool? No. So I'm using Gemini for basically everything. Okay. And I'm testing a lot of like local as well. Like I have a different laptop that only has Olamah and Gemma 4. And I'm just testing how that is compared to me paying Google for Gemini access. But essentially that's what it is. I think that is really too cold if you have a good enough system and you can, you don't have to build everything from scratch as well. You can do like a lot of like LLM wikis from Carpathy. And there's like a lot of skills or G brain G stack. You probably haven't used that. You need to check that out. G brain and G stack. Yeah. It's a Gary Tand, the CEO and why why a combinator, why see. He created, he created like a very nice harness that works as your kind of like a CTO that goes through everything that you have and everything that you're trying to do. And it takes it to like very rigorous steps. Part of the process just to make sure that everything that you do is actually done well, like a you know, high growth startup would would look at it. And then it tells you, you know, like, hey, you're fucking up here. You need to clean this up. So it's super super helpful to plug into those things and then make it yours. You customize it. You kind of you fork a skill and then you keep the foundational and then you add the context that is about your business and you personally and then the combination of those two things become something like a very valuable employee would have. Maybe it would take six to eight months for a human to actually get those skills. You can literally get it in the same day that you downloaded. And everything that is not code though. And I think this is interesting because a lot of AI is being used for non code related stuff, which is like language related. So for things that it comes to like opinions, strategy and marketing, like content creation, what kind of like, how do you position the business, how do you position your personal brand, how do you write content to post and what format, et cetera. Those are things that I believe AI is really bad at. Yeah, I agree. And it's really, really bad. I'm very concerned about that because a lot of people don't share that sentiment. Everybody thinks it's wow, so great. No, it's slow. But people are sloppifying the web, you know, people are using it differently. It's like I use AI to prepare for interviews, right? I'll be putting it like I'm seeing Fernando today. We're going to talk about AI. We talk about our experiences. He's also a Bitcoiner. Give me a question and interview arc and it will give me an I'm not going to ask that question in that way. That's not me exactly. And so in the end, look, I've got one sheet here. It's just they're the topics I want to make sure I just don't miss and don't forget. Presentations, it can make them look good, but it takes a few iterations. Like I'll say give me five templates and we'll find the one I like the most and iterate on it. I think we'll know when it's ready for that. It's when it can write a joke that's funny. If you ever try to get AI to write a joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's terrible. It's terrible. Yeah, horrible. And maybe it'll never get that. Maybe that is a biological thing, but that's within us. Yes. A weird kind of mutation, biology mutation that we have that you cannot be taught. Yeah, I agree with that. But it doesn't have flair. No, but you talk about biology, which is super interesting because I feel like we're like in a very interesting, transitional period where a lot of things are changing. AI, obviously, being one of the catalysts and being one of the things that is changing work. It's like it takes a lot of the roboticness out of work out. And that to me, the way that I see it leaves a lot of space left for us to become human again. Yeah. Well, that's the argument that the because AI could destroy the inter- well, it can do two things. I think there's a world where phones go back to doing, there's basically, you'll have three things, which is phone calls, messaging and AI and your AI is you interface to everything. Yes. And that's cool. And that I feel craving for the analog world. And the last 20, 30 years, maybe 20 years might have just been this weird period of time whereby the humans built the logic ready for the AI to run the machines. Yeah. That's what it might have been. Because you know what, we all think that the internet has broaders like, oh, information for everything and you have access to so much information and you're like supposedly all this information should make you smarter and so much more knowledgeable because the access is there, right? But we can now in 2026, we can actually look back and be like, that did not fucking have to fucking dumb dumb as hell. And why? Because our human biology, we're not trained to know everything that happens everywhere all the time. We're not supposed to know that I don't know, massive flood happened in Jakarta that killed 70% of the human biology. people were not supposed to know that a trained derailed in Karachi or like anything in Buenos Aires. Like before I would say the 1930s, there was like, everything was localized. You know, information was tribal. Didn't want to be free. It wanted to be tribal. It wanted to be local, high trust in a way that you already spoke. It's kind of crazy to see like when you see, I don't know, I've been named the UK for so long now, but if you go to Glasgow or Newcastle and Leeds, it's not a lot of the radius between those towns or not that big, but the dialects they speak English very differently. Yeah, cool. So it's because all of these, the people were local tribal and the society functioned in a very tribal local way that was more high trust. Now we're supposed to know everything about everything and it's just not within us to really cope and process all that information. So we're now going back to little echo chambers and little like, you know, little bubbles of the internet, little pockets of the internet where that local high trust lives, but it's not necessarily reduced to physical location anymore. It's the location on the web that a lot of people from everywhere around the world are sharing some of the same interests as you. You find your tribe. Find your tribe. Speak the language. You agree on some fundamentals. And then that's it, right? And because we can cope with all this information. So, and we pick the bad stuff as well. You know, right. You can go out there and, you know, especially with AI now, you can have philosophical debates. You could say, what would Adam Smith make of the economy now? Yeah. Would Kane still back his thesis? You could go, you can do anything. Yeah, and we look for, I don't know, I was watching a guy, an AI video of a guy where his skateboard was a dog. I saw that. Yeah. And then I watched the AI Slop channel for an hour or I watched people fight and yeah, cats do stupid shit. We've not, I don't know. I think we've not, we've not used different for what it should be. No, because we can't. We don't have the brains to process that much, but the AI can process all that information, right? So it's like we have built the internet that we humans couldn't really use in the right way. But AI can actually parse through everything if you give them, give the AI the data, right? And that's what I think also is happening with a lot of like manual work. We don't want to, you know, I have seen every time you get a package from an Amazon driver, they're just so hurried, they have so little time, they got to get to the next location super fast, they are literally emulating robotic behavior. And then you do the same factories and just like deliveries. So they pissing bottles in their vans, yeah, they're deadline totally. It's fucking gross. So we are trying to emulate the robotic behavior, but we're not capable to do so. So I'm happy that we are living in this time where AI and automations just come in and take over. And yeah, a lot of people are going to be like, okay, these people are losing their jobs, but you know what, those jobs, if they could really choose something else they would. And working like robots is just not in our nature. Well, if you, I mean, if you go back to a period of time where you lived on the farm with your family, yeah, you didn't have running water and you had a shed at the bottom of the garden where you took a dump and you grew your own food. But like if you actually compared, get a rid of the modern luxuries, you were there with your family on your plot. Now you get up at seven in the morning and get on a metal tube and you go to a box and you move things on a screen from one place to be another, have an argument, you come home, it's like seven pm you're tired, you've worked your balls off and you've got no money left. What the fuck? What did we actually achieve here? Yeah, life is great for a lot of people, right? But not everywhere. No, and I think when we live in a society where the money is programmatically, you know, inflationary, you're going to have less time, you're going to have less resources to do stuff. So with less time and less resources, you don't really have time to actually sit down and read books and talk to people and have thoughtful debates. It's just more of that like coping where you just become a passive consumer of content and then the ones that are actually winning are on the others I create in the content and leading you to different places. Creating the algorithms. Well, the ones that are creating the algorithm is one thing, but the creators are also victims of the same algorithm. So they are creating content where they triple down on one thought or one opinion just to like grow an audience and keep those who come in so that they don't turn, right? There's a very evil feedback loop of like consumers on one end in that loop and then the content creators on the other end for being forced to create a certain type of content just to have a business. So I'm packaged it. We face that dilemma every time. Right. Yep. Like if I make a show with Fernando and we talk about why Bitcoin is the best form, money will do okay if I talk about all the robots are going to kill us all and make you talk about that, it's going to blow up. Yeah. And it's past the competition in the algorithm. I actually fucking hate it, man. Yeah, it is. And that's kind of like, okay, so why are Gen Zers all of a sudden having like a physical media moment on TikTok, for example? I think that's interesting. Like they like, they just discovered DVDs and I'm like, hey, this DVD thing is kind of cool. I like to have like a little collection of DVDs and watch movies this way. So streaming everything. There's that whole thing that's I don't know if it's a big thing, but I definitely seen it like physical media is like I think. I've seen the book thing where there's like young men going online and they're doing book reviews. Yeah. And they've read, I don't know, Mark as a rail years or the Iliad and they go and they're talking about they got from them like this is cool. Yeah, well, you have something called book talk, right? That's like a lot of TikTokers influencers there are just book nerds and they talk about literature and fiction and it's fucking cool. Like it's really good content. So there's this at least a little pocket. I'm not saying this is like a whole generational thing, but it's a pocket of the internet of you very young people. I can understand physical media. Yeah. Not necessarily I said resistance, but it's like, hey, this is cool. He didn't know about this. It's cool that this exists. Did you you old enough to have had blockbuster? Yeah, I was at the I didn't really I saw it shut down, but I was not a minute too young for that. So it was great. You know, Friday night Saturday night, he'd get a blockbuster. There was another one called choices. You know, you would go down and whatever the new film was, they would have like racks of it and you would hope to get a copy. Yeah, yeah. But you would just wander around, right? You just wander around and you do usually get two, you get like one for you, one for her and and it was fun. You look at the back and you would read them, you get some popcorn, you'd go back, you would watch it because you didn't have this shit in your way, didn't have a phone in your way and you'd watch the film. And that was a cool experience. Go into blockbuster. My kids would never experience that and Netflix is not a better experience. No, because you just yes, what can I find? The algorithm knows this shit is what people are watching. There's more of this. There's sports, I don't know, drama stories or like the latest murder investigation because they do well. And I'm just like this fucking sucks. This sucks isn't experienced. I've got an AI thesis which I think my, this is my hope. My hope is is that what AI is going to do is decentralize the capability to create anything to everyone. And so where Hollywood goes, well, I've got to get Brad Pitt and I did a caprio and I need to like, this film needs to bring in 200 million. So I've got to just follow this formula. You've got to have some dude who's going to have an idea for a script, he's going to go on AI and he's going to make a film and it's going to fucking blow. It's going to be the next fight club. Yeah, going to be the next usual suspects. And there's going to be so many of these films, right? That there will just be like a rating mechanism where people go, you've got to see this film because he only needs to sell like 50 copies to make his money back or 100 copies. And that's how I think we'll get a resurgence of like good music and good film because I think culture's, I don't know man. Yeah, it's a mix of that plus the slurpification of the web, just like increasing and increasing and accelerating, pushing people out. I just want to go online to just like look at some cool shit or discover some cool shit. And it's like the experience of going online gets worse and worse and worse. Then that inner desire to like go somewhere else or choose another direction might come, you know, like might even get you to buy a fucking motor off-lit phone instead of the latest iPhone, right? Just to kind of like force yourself to have a forcing function to like get down to that level, right? And start over again. But like I see like kids these days, there's two movies that's on cinema right now. We talked about back rooms, but there's another one called obsession. I think both of those directors are like 20, 21 year old and they grew up on YouTube. They were YouTube creators. They created like short clips on YouTube, whatever. They creativity was just so good that people loved in that realm. They loved the YouTube and you know, the content that was strictly on YouTube and maybe some some TikTok. But then after years of doing that, like some kind of like one content piece just blew the hell up and opened a whole new audience for this person to the point where like Hollywood XX discovered him and be like, Hey, all these clips that you're doing is pretty cool. Do you want to make a full length movie out of it? And he got a film deal. This is a lot of us. And it was a meme that started on 4chatt where somebody said, Oh, I had a dream like I had a nightmare. That was like very crazy. I was was like in this like sanitized fluorescent light office building where like the walls were kind of like yellowish and it was like a like a adored or carpet type of floor and I was like lost in that environment I couldn't get out. It wasn't dangerous but it was like icky. I felt bad and then that person I think Photoshopped or used AI to kind of create that image like this is kind of how that room looked like that became the meme template inside a 4chan where other people started creating other parts of the room other how wow and they started to create this whole world of of this like office environment with fluorescent lights like creepy. Then this guy the the back rooms director saw all of that started creating short films using this template so he from images he created the video in short form and then dad became like a whole thing became even more of a meme to the to the point that is now in cinemas and making fucking 300 million I think on a 10 million budget. I mean how much more interesting is that than a group of execs at Netflix in a room going yeah right how do we make because even that's become slob I don't know if you see the um did you see the film with Matt Damon and what's the other what's his buddy called Ben Avlick Ben Afflick where it was like they they were like police and there was there was like a high stuff the rip the rip now I've said there's a thing I've noticed with Netflix films they went on broken yeah they did they talked about it and very good said it was I think he said it was good it's not good it's not good now Netflix films I've noticed this pattern where there's not many locations so I'm I'm almost certain it's not a coincidence I'm thinking I'm Netflix I want the stars at this March I'm going to get the writer just try and keep it in one location or two locations keep the cost down make it all dialogue it's fucking sucks man there's like I mean I still stand by why said to Danny I think uh maybe why now's back to blacks the last great album we ever got yeah I think we get Albus I then anymore and I was like we don't even get that many great films that I used to kind of flight and I do America I'd be like films are gonna watch three films I'm gonna fly sometimes I guess there's no one film or one watch no well you and I we have a music background right yeah like remember just buying physical albums CDs CDs stealing them and you yeah like you were able to crack the the plastic there was like a whole thing so that before before they did that yeah they you could just take okay yeah no no but we were advanced even though they put that the plastic one we figured out a way to break that stuff yeah but like reading the booklets and see like okay this was produced by this yeah or this was recorded in this studio it's like oh shit electric lights studio that were Jimmy Hendrix recorded okay that's cool that this rapper recorded that in this studio right which is flicking through them flicking through and by an stack of CDs yeah the comeback of vinyl has been good for that yeah I think so too and people have that because is the discoverability thing that is lacking I think because everything is so sanitized and that's also like a reflection of how AI is using language to talk to you as well when you talk about like non-code related things it's all very like homogenous they they they they they they they take out the edge you know they round out the edges the flare they're the actual possess you know that will make you be like oh okay it's more of a like let me like the AI is like instructed to try to read your mind all the time and like say the things that you wanted to to say to you but have you seen the AI versions of songs where it's like it'll do like the soul version of many men by yeah yeah yeah I heard that that actually I do like that is fun I've heard some great AI versions of songs yeah done in a different style and but then how much of current music is AI produced like the new deaf tones out of sucks I've liked every album they've done the new one sucks and I swear to God they wrote that with AI but like I so I I subscribe to Google AI right and with that comes a bunch of tools a bunch of platforms and one of them is called a cafe get the name but it's a it's a AI music tool so you log in there and the the home screen is like what do you want to create today and then give you like nine tiles and every tile represents a category you click play and it's like you already start out with like the most cliche version of reggae tone or jazz or rap 90s and then from there you are supposed to be creative from that starting point of like the most sanitized bullshit vanilla type form a version of it so if that is a starting point well how what can you expect from people in the future to actually like put on the creative creative juices and actually create something new that is worth worthwhile well maybe that's for to save everyone creativity when all the jobs have gone sitting in office processing data everyone's just gonna have to go and be creative yeah or at least just find opportunities like you and I have you know like become a business you're the CEO the CTO the CFO the CIO everything and you use AI for that purpose so you know you don't have to necessarily be an employee because you're fired or they they're not hiring because they are using AI themselves now you can use AI to build a business that you wouldn't be able to five years ago because you needed the money you needed the people you needed the team you don't need any of these things anymore you need 200 bucks a month start off with that and you have everything available it's never been easier to start so these people who are losing jobs they will have opportunities if they really look for it yeah it's gonna suck though if you're like 45 50 years old you know we're like decade away from retirement that jobs can been swept from under you this you know I'm 42 years old and I never I coded HTML and CSS to make some MySpace pages that's the extent of like how HTML as I was yeah dream we've a cable look dream we've ever yeah oh my god man you're going back but like look at me now like I okay it's one man show I don't have a big team but I'm profitable I run a business I'm independent I left an executive job salary and now I have like maybe 90% of that salary back through through my business after I think it was eight months since I left my last job I'm 42 years old I'm not supposed to be coding and doing data science stuff but I but I am okay I'm gonna be honest I have never really been a skincare person most skincare has always felt a little bit I've complicated to me all the fancy branding and the celebrities and those 10 step routines and you know what half the time I wouldn't know what I'm buying what it actually does so when one skin reached out I was a little bit skeptical but they sent me the products but they also did speak my language which is science the company was founded by longevity researchers and they've been looking at how the body ages at a cellular level and they've developed this peptide called OS one which is designed to target those old damaged cells are call senescent cells basically these cells stop functioning properly and contribute to skin age and over time and they're not selling magic they're not selling false promises they're just trying to build products which are rooted in actual research and so I have been using one skin for the last week you know what it's been working I like the simplicity my skin feels better let's dry healthy overall and it only takes seconds I don't have to spend ages worrying about this before bedtime and you know what in my age honestly you need to start thinking about this stuff I could either accept I'm getting old and my body's gonna fall apart slowly or I can try and take better care of myself so yeah I'm gonna be carrying on using one skin so if you want to try it out you can get 15% off at one skin just using the code mccormac that is one skin dot co for the slash mccormac mccormac spell mcc oh rm ack and after you've made a purchase they're gonna ask you how you heard about them so please support the show and let them know we send you what what do you think this all kind of means because I can't imagine the world in five years time so I don't know when I first used chat gbt maybe was like two years ago from there to now feels exponential for sure the last month like what I've learned and what I've been doing with AI feels exponential and more and more people like discovering it more and more companies are letting people go I don't even know what a come what does a company look like in five years right I don't know what this all means what does democracy look like this money look like I just I can't I can't give I can give scenarios I think there's the abundant scenario which works out it's quite good and I can give you the disaster scenario I just can't figure it out I I don't think anyone has to figure it out and we're just gonna figure it out as it comes I think you know I like to call this error like the chaos gap because it is an extension of this like disruptions that we saw in the early 2000s like I as you know like come from a music business background so I was there when like the pirate bay and torrenting all that started to really become a thing and I saw from the inside because I was working at Universal Music how file sharing simple is that technology for file for sharing files how that just upended hold industry and forced a bunch of mergers and acquisitions that were not that was very inorganic they just had to scramble in order to survive right and then they figure out a way to survive that they still exist but they were like heavily disrupted and this keeps going on in terms of file sharing for media music and film cultural stuff it happened with bitcoin for centralized for central bank currencies and it's now happening with I in terms of information asymmetry. Information asymmetry being the ability to know what coding language to build a business or the access to information to learn new things. All of these institutions or third parties that the entire reason to exist was based on this information asymmetry where I'm in the middle, you have to go through me in order to get whatever you want. You can even say this is an extension of the printing press, like you mentioned, where the printing press kind of like upended education and literacy, which then removed the third party of the church so people could like access God themselves through acquiring their own Bible. You didn't need to talk to anyone. You could just acquire the Bible and Luther told you, "Hey, you can have direct access to God through the Bible." Here's the book. Now we have the media being upended because truth is everywhere now and the information is everywhere. So the media or the government are no longer the sole owners of the truth. You don't have to go through them in order to get the truth. And the same thing, you don't need to go to a coding school in order to code. So all these monopolies are done and we are now in the middle of that time where all of these things are just coming crashing down, but we don't know what to build. Yeah, did you see my tweet yesterday? No, but our tweets. I've upset a few people talking to my tweets about, so one more I said, "I'm software engineer now." People are like, "No, you're not." Can I fucking have? I think there's a lot of code in the tech world. So I put a tweet of this, "10,000 likes is mad." The realization that Adobe no longer has a business, AI is crazy. And look, yeah, yeah. So look, obviously I'm being provocative. Yeah, of course they still have a business. Maybe they're still growing. But we get nearer to not need them Photoshop because I could just get what I want created. And it's getting better at text and it's getting better at a man's and it will get to the point where it's perfect. You can create any image. So if I have, we don't use the football club, we just use mid-journey. We do some amends here in like Canva. I don't really need Canva much anymore. That's done. Grammily. Gone. Yeah. How many of these businesses do not exist or do they not exist how they think they do? I think these SaaS apocalypse is real. Yeah. Because you can build software for me. I showed it to Danny and Danny was like, "Yeah, I need this." I was like, "I just, there's no point in me trying to make a SaaS version of this because it's custom to how we do things. You should just take what I've got. Tell your AI to ingest it and customize it for you." Yeah. Like Open Source. Yeah. I think the opportunity here, and this is kind of like, I'm living this. So at least for me, it's very anecdotal, but it's working for me. But I do believe it can be extrapolated to more people. And that is, you and I, we can build our own internal tools that can be fucking buggy all the time. Like, you can be like to the point where we dedicate a set time of the week to fix bugs. And we're okay with it because we see that the trade-off is to pay thousands of dollars per month for a subscription for these tools. You build it yourself. They're not going to be as good. They're not going to follow the same standards, perhaps. But what do you care? I don't know. I think you can build better. I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know about that because I think there's a lot of, again, in terms of user interface, yeah, you can build it better. But it's the underlying corpus in terms of like the data that you have access to. That depends a lot from business to business. And I think that the people who create that data that offer that data have a business, at least for now. And because if you can gather data in that is extremely tedious or expensive, then I think companies that are well-funded, they see the trade-off. And like now, we rather just outsource that. You give us clean data that we can use in our internal workflows that we vibe code. But at least we don't have to hire a new person to be the data guy. Yeah, because data is extremely, if at a certain scale, a data business is real shit. And if you are processing a lot of data that can really determine the success or not of a business, then there's high standards that you got to that you have to adhere to. There's a mode there. There's a mode there, at least for now. But I don't think Squarespace doesn't mode anymore. No, exactly. Things, things, tools that does things for you that do kind of like mechanical stuff. Totally that. That you can totally replace. And like I said, I did it in three days. They'll come a day where you'll just say, "Look, create me a content management system like Squarespace and you'll have it within an hour." Yeah, yeah. And customize it for my business. These are the templates I want. Yeah, they are. It's just done. But if there's a business that is super important that needs data where you have to buy 400 cameras, install them somewhere in the real world and take pictures every second and then gather that data, sanitize it, and then sell it to that company who needs that. I think that's a very hard business to live code. So there is that mode is in the data that is like hard, tedious or expensive. I think that's the still an opportunity there. That's kind of like the opportunity that I have taken with my company perception where I take data from everywhere in the internet. I sanitize it and then I give it to you. Yes, you can do it yourself. But the companies that I've been speaking to, like I do maybe five or ten demos a week. And all of these companies are companies like in the digital asset space. They're all like super AI forward. And part of the demo is like, "Hey, so tell me like how are you doing in this whole AI transitional period?" And I don't want to name names, but there's a public company that has gone out and said, "Hey, we are laying off a lot of employees today because we're focusing on AI." On the demo, I asked them, "What do you do? How do you use AI?" And they literally said, "No, we have plot. We work with plot." That's it. So you basically gave everyone a better computer? Yeah. But like I was thinking, "Oh, shit, we got these like agents that are running. There's like 15,000 of them. We have our own like harness. We got like all this." And they were like not even close. So I think a lot of people they do understand, "Okay, we need to use AI." They see that value. But in terms of building their own systems, we're very, very early. Very early. And this is where I get stuck with it all. Because I'm like, if I can create software for me, and the next company can create software for itself. And we have all these agents. Again, how does this all look in five years? What does it mean? What does it mean for what is the shape of a company? Are we going to get to the point where there's no need for humans? Or there's going to be a need for very few humans. Like a square layer of 4,000 people. So 40% of their workforce. So another 6,000. In a year, they're going to go down to 3,000. Does it eventually become 25 people? Because you need a board. Is that it? Does a company just become a board of decision makers? Yeah. So what happens to everyone else? What does everyone do in the real world? Hope they have Bitcoin, man. I mean, look, I think what we're going to face is a hostile reaction to AI. And it's going to be soon. Yeah. The same hostile reaction to cars, and horses, right? Like people. Yeah. I mean, we've seen this a lot at this point in history that we can kind of like to say that they're going to be at transitional peer. It's going to be very hard. And a lot of things that were given, so not given anymore. And we have to adapt. And those who can adapt, they will adapt. And they will be new business models that will be created out of this. What they are going to be, I have no idea. I have one idea. I'm kind of betting my own professional career on that one idea, which is you provide data. You create a mode with that. And you sell that. And if people are willing to pay for it, then you just go, you triple down on that. How long that mode is going to last? I have no idea. But that's kind of like you don't have, you can't plan five years ahead. Anyway, so you're just going to like, I don't even know what you do about. Yeah, if you've got a five-year-old now, it's just about starting school. They're going to finish going in 13 years. Yeah. What skill sets will they need? Like, what more people will be doing in 13 years? The easy answer was like, okay, you learn how to code and you're an engineer, so you can get like a tech job. And because robotics and software is going to be all over. But now, hey, I just, that stuff. So what now? You learn to orchestrate. Yeah. Yeah. Or you develop tastes. That's kind of like, a lot of people are saying that, right? Taste. All these like very subjective things that will never have an objective answer. That there's a mode there. You know, you have a very specific taste. And you just have to find the people who like that taste. And you create that's your target audience. And that's like you're you build a business around those people. But capitalism has been built on being built on the idea of scarcity, right? Yeah. We've never had a world where it's been built on abundance. No. And I don't think we know what that means. No. I don't know what that means. I mean, and where those how those productivity gains are just going to be distributed is really important. Because if we go into this kind of like, I don't know, exponential AI growth where there's the masses amount of productivity, but it's all unevenly distributed to a wealthy class. Are they going to be essentially slaves to the AI? Will they be able to afford the AI? Yeah. Will they be able to afford the tokens inference? I mean, that's some black mirror shit where they're like, "Okay, if you can't afford to buy the tokens, watch this ad." And you'll get some free tokens. Or get on this treadmill and run for 45 minutes and you get 10 tokens to spend. But it is another utility now. I think tokens are a utility alongside. It was like, when we first got electricity, you would have companies get electricity. You couldn't imagine that you were wanting to say, "Yeah, we don't have electricity." Or then it became like the computer. And then every company has a computer. And then the internet, every company has. Every company's going to have AI. And every home's going to have AI. So alongside your Wi-Fi bill and your water bill, your electricity, your gas, you're going to have your AI bill. And I'm often from belief of that. Essentially, the LLM's really are utility. Yeah, the ARB is also. If you really take a breather and you think about how AI is really adopted right now, people aren't really using it like you and I do. Chativity has the biggest user base. They have like, literally, a billion or something like that. They use the chat. It's really cool. Huh? That was my next sentence. They just use it the way they use Google. That's it, dude. It's like Bitcoin or any other like a JSON tech that is very novel and very innovative and very bleeding edge. It's like, you're going to have a few people that will totally like go crazy and do 19-hour days. But that's not the people that you see out in the high street. It's like you discover something on X and then LinkedIn knows about it four months later. It's the same thing. The world is not like you, like, Howard World. Georgia people have no clue. I saw. Because I love islands on right now. In the ad break, there was a Google Gemini ad. And what was the ad about? It wasn't about like, "Hey, build the business." So it was literally Harry Kane on the barbecue saying, "I need to finish these chickens in 45 minutes." "Let me take my app and ask Gemini. I need to take a picture of my barbecue. I need to be finishing 45 minutes." Okay, and then Gemini went and gave him the itinerary for all the things that needed to do in about succession in order to be ready before the guest came in. That was the message. So that's the use case that you're presenting to the Gempop essentially. We just like. Well, they're going to miss, dude, because I think, yeah, I've nailed. I've been dialed in for the last month, right? Yeah. I'm like, "You just go accept. I need a month. I'm going to be dialed in." Because there's a couple of reasons. Firstly, I do have this small amount of fear. I was like, "What does this mean? We need to be ready as a family when everything changes." And if I understand how to use these tools and I've built some life, there's a bit of protection there. But I also think there's a period of time, short period of time, you'd be able to stay in your claim in this world. Yeah. The gap is now. And I think a lot of practitioners who look at AI and look at for what it is and can imagine how they're going to extrapolate what we're seeing today with whatever is going to happen in the next three, four, five years. Yes, we definitely. It is the. Permanent underclass. That's what it is. That's the forcing function. For me, to build a business from scratch, for you to optimize your businesses and really find your edge. AI is perfect for that right now. And I think we're lucky to be. I guess we took prior decisions in our life that put us in a better position now to sit and be like, "I have the luxury to take 19 hours out of the day." I'm not forced to go to a job or do a lot of shit that will distract me, but actually putting in the time. Yeah, but dude, when I learned HTML, I was working in a factory. I used to walk 45 minutes there. Yeah. It was a university holidays. I would work in a carpentry factory building stages for a day. I'd go back and I'd get my HTML 4 book out and I'd be there until midnight and get a bed. So did that for whole summer? I learned to build websites. Oh yeah. Like, anyone who's listening who's thinking, "Well, I've got this job. They could still be doing this." You can get your laptop out on a train on the way to work 45 minutes and do stuff. On 45 minutes on the way back. That's an hour and a half. You can do seven half hours a week on the commute. You can be listening to podcasts. You can be trying things out. The stuff you can do is so fast and the learning curve is pretty quick that most people can, should be. I just don't think that people know how to use the tools. I stumbled on it by the way Claude answered something. I had no idea. Because of that, I'm now at AOSO courses. But we come from the Bitcoin community as well. It's always like, "Okay, you hear about Bitcoin first." You're kind of like, "Oh, I don't know. You register it, but you don't really pay that much attention." And in time passes, and you go back and it's like, "Okay, boom now." There's just something that clicks in your head, right? And it's like, "You need to be high agency in order to be able to receive these signals and to synthesize them in your head and actually be operational about what you synthesize in your mind." That's not the majority of people. If majority of people were actually high agency, Bitcoin would be even bigger. Way more people would use AI for building shit instead of just replacing it with Google. It's just like the world. People are just like, "I don't like that." So we have to stop thinking that the world is like this. And be like, "Hey, there's going to be very few winners. There's going to be a lot of losers." The question is, though, from more like humanistic side. It's like, "What's going to happen with these people who are on losing it?" Yeah, what's going to happen with democracy? What's going to happen with taxation? What's going to happen with the money printer? Are they going to be taxing the AI companies to try and have that redistribution of wealth? Yeah. That bit I don't know. The one bit I am excited for is the politicians and being held to account on truth. And the majority of the civil service are fucking bean counters. What I've built there, can we build a better democracy with AI? Can we get rid of all these bean counters? Yeah. Like, and can we get truth? I mean, I wonder if you try going to show us receipts.com. I wonder if you can see this thing I've built. Oh, this is cool. I don't know if I've, like, I haven't released it yet. So it might still be behind a log in. Track in 628 MPs. I ingested 10,915 tweets. Got an 81 out of 100% accuracy on them. These are all tweets or tweets and. Blue sky? Was that this? Oh, yeah. So go into the latest. Come on. Up at the top. And so as it comes in, so none of these are graded or in review. So that's probably not the best place. Go to, yeah, go to claim. Sorry. I turned it off because I was hammering tokens. So you can see, mostly true, mostly true. I'm very fireball. Don't go any of the ones that are untrue because I don't want to get sued. Danny Krueger, mostly true. It's gone. The senior civil service withheld information from the PM for weeks. So we open up the receipt. There's his tweet and then it goes. The call claim that the information was written this one PM is directly supported by Starmer's own statement. Where he said, "However, it was specifically for an office officials, notably permanent secretary Oli Robbins, not the senior civil service broadly." So like. It's cool, isn't it? The only reason I haven't released it is when I got the first suggestion, I started finding things that were wrong. So, for example, there was an example where it retweeted somebody and they were referring to the retweet. My system wasn't recognizing the retweet, as I was saying, it was false. So it's going to take a lot of work to train the model to get for like the edge cases like that. But just bring it back up a second. But so you take tweets, I assume, from the Twitter API, you feed that in. And then what is the truth that you're referencing? So we break. So, all primary sources, like government sources, other sources, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that. Now, there's a couple of issues. I can't release this yet because I could get sued because of the state of the UK's libel laws if I've got something wrong. So I'm taking my time to get this right. But where it gets really interesting is like, obviously there you can feel to buy. I think, go to MPs, come. So you can literally, I've got a score for each MP. Like, how truthful they are, how many tweets they've done. And if you go to parties, it's very top of the parties, that's really, this gets where it gets really interesting. Yeah. So you've got a score by party. So like, labor is more accurate than reform. Right. But my problem is I don't have enough tweets. And, you know, and to process 10,000 tweets, cost me about three grad. Right. So it's like, how far back do you go? Do I want to spend 30 grand? And that's why I'm not sure. But then it gets really interesting. You've got the leaderboard. I've got the top column. Yeah. So then you've got the like most accurate, least accurate. Let's, who's, it's got Claire Coutino as the least accurate. Click on her. So true, mostly true, half true, mislead in false. Okay. And so you can go and see all the tweets. I need this to be a, it's close to 100% correct. Or defendable. So there's a right reply. I also want to look if they're manipulating people. So if they've been manipulative with their language. which I even put together a thing for the bio-lectrum, the problem with the bio-lectrum, not enough of them are on Twitter. But for me, this just started to make them accountable. Then I was like, "Do you know what I can do? "I can have question time. "I can ingest the entire, everything they spoke about." And I can fact check that. I don't want it there to hammer people. The people I'm more likely to vote for, the ones who are the least accurate, which is kind of interesting. But I want it there as a thing that politicians just take a second. So I was thinking again there, so they could claim their account. They could put a tweet in, and it'll fact check it for themselves, say, "You'll be an accurate here." And so, because I think the problem with the way the media is, social media at the moment is like, "We're quick to react." And we'll just say, "I mean, "I bet if I went in there, "I've got loads of shit, that's not true." But like if you're, it's like a forcing function to make them not lie. - Yeah, yeah. Or a forcing function for them to just double and triple down on one opinion and never have any new ones or just continue to be black and white as well, which could be favorable for the audience, right? So everything is predictable and it's not confusing at least. - Yeah. - But it's interesting. I have a function, I mean, there's a feature that I have in my company, which is exactly this. I have like 300 thought leaders influences from the digital asset industry, and you can go all the way back and see how they changed their stance on anything, or did something that they talked about, what do you call it, affect price movements, or did they change their sentiment from this time to that time? So it's really good to have like a corpus of like a historical backlog that you can just like feed into an agent and just like give me the entire thing. - The other one I wanna do is all government contracts are public. I would love to get a government contract. Who would war did it? Does anyone in the company that got awarded to are they friends with them on Facebook? - I love that. - Yeah. - Are they friends with them on Facebook? - Yeah. - Not making accusations. - Yeah, yeah. - Like I think there is a good black mirror of it. I don't want this for people's private lives. - No. - I absolutely want this for the public sector. - Definitely. - I want all, I want the black mirror version of the public sector, where all information is public, all can be ingested, and we should be able to root out a lot of corruption, waste, and bullshit. - Yeah. Like you've seen a lot of people do these like sleuthing online, but it's like very manual, very tedious. It's great to just have one resource, it just does that in real time, all the time. Because there's a saying in Argentina like you can't survive the archives, right? And it's like any politician, especially in Argentina, you know how that is? Everybody is so flip floppy, you know? Like they go with, like old school politicians, they just say whatever. They go with the flow, whatever is the, you know, policy, the juror, they just turn. But now with Twitter, there's a lot of people who can just fetch video clips from like 10 years back and when they're totally opposite. But in order to have that as a corpus that is living and breathing online and people can just access that for people that they vote for or think about voting for, it's really, it's what we need. - The other thing I wanted to put in there was like a check my bias. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Just a check your bias. You know, are you voting for things that work against you because you're ideological? Am I ideological? You know, can we improve civics with this? Can we have a better form of democracy? 'Cause the problem with democracy has been totally captured by essentially a mafia state. Yeah, let's just be honest. The government is a mafia and it has competing mafia's fighting, but that's what it is. Can we make it not work like that? Can you go into a system and say, look, this is what I want. I want lower taxation and locally I want the rose repaired and I want this and this is the guy who's gonna do it and then we immediately start tracking them. Can we do that? Can it be a fault? That's what I hope. That's what I want. Anyway, how's our boy Malay doing? Tell me. - Oh, Malay is doing great, honestly. I've always said that he is going to fix the economy and when I come to the inflation, any dead. Now there's other societal issues that he is. Not been able to fix, which I never thought he was ever going to fix because it's a deep root of cultural problem more than anything. And what I, and I think I'm on the record, your show saying, if in the four years, if he doesn't get reelected and it only has these four years, if he's able to just change the pendulum, move the pendulum on the culture at least, so that it is normal to discuss things that are like taboo for a communist to discuss, like, why can't people build a business? Why does inflation happening? These peronists, governments for the last 25 years have just denied that inflation has ever existed and kind of treated as a thing that is just a part of normalcy. - Oh, isn't that a thing in Argentina? There's two truths. The sun comes up and there's inflation. (laughing) - Yeah, but it's been normalized. It's like people accepted for like, oh, this is something that is irreparable. Like that is just the way it is. And politicians have in the past been treating it as like, okay, it's just the way it is. We tried our best, but hey, it's inflation. It's like normal. You guys have already used to it. And Mule is like, no, if that, this has to stop. When inflation is just another word of like incredibly irresponsibility from the people who are in the power and he did something about that. And at least culturally we can now say like, hey, we need actual monetary policy that is prudent. We actually need safer streets. We need to feel secure. These things were like never discussed properly. You know what I mean? It's a psycho to say it, but it was never a real debate because it was always about like, oh, you know, if you got a rob, you know, poor guy, like the victim is really the robber because he comes from poverty, you know, it's important. He's the victim. Empathy for the, was empathy for the, for the guilty is persecution of the innocent. Right. Because Adam Smith said that. Something I don't know. But yeah, that makes sense. That's the left wing luxury belief very much so. Do you think you get re-elated? Yeah, I think so. Well, this is my bias speaking. I want him to be real popular. He, yeah, yeah, he has not, what's really remarkable is that you, you would already, you could already tell who was going to be against Milay from the get go just because of the factions that they belong to and they have really giving it all. They have really tried to smear him on so many things. But I really, I really do feel like people, they look around and they see a different Argentina. Like it's more palpable, the change. It's not necessarily propaganda or Milay being a great propagandist that will make people re-elect him. It's like you can actually, yeah, the change is palpable. I think just the fact that people have the ability to save, that is a game changer. And I think people, you know, the longer time people have the ability to save, then they will be able to plan for their future. If they can plan for their future, they will make better choices. If they make better choices, they're just quality of life and their surroundings will be approved. So all of these things, I think, are being felt now towards the end of his visit. There's a peronisse to want to get back in. - Oh, yeah, you're not. - Get the money from the gun. - Yeah. - But Latin America as a whole is becoming pretty right wing, which I'm very happy with. So that's the way for now. Let's see. - All right, you told me before we were sort of recording that you've become a bit, a bit, a bit, a bit, a bit, a bit blackpilled. - Tell me about it. I think this is a lot of that's happening. - Yeah. - You know, apart from the fact that, you know, you see so many people like of the OGs quitting or there's like, you know, lightning developers who have dedicated like 11 years of the last career to focus solely on lightning, they have just like, okay, I'm gonna start a data storage company now, you know, stuff like that. A lot of people are pivoting. And I think myself personally, I've just been inside of it for so long and been really pushing for more adoption, broader adoption. And really in the process of that, I have understood that just Bitcoin is just not for everyone. It's for anyone. If, you know, they have, I think they need to be of a certain mindset to really rock Bitcoin. It's not for any normie to just all of a sudden fire up a nap and start using Bitcoin because it's cool. There's like this undeniable step, which includes a drastic realization of a lot of the beliefs that you've held for a lot of years might not be true in here to realize that. And just that is a lot, it's very hard for the average Joe to actually do. - It's the true man show moment. - It is. It's exactly right. It's like, whoa, wait a minute, this world that I've been like seeing and this lens that I've been seeing the world through, it's not really so bullshit. - It's all bullshit. What's up with that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It is, it is right. It is right. I'm not gonna change my stance. And that's the reaction that a lot of people will have. And you cope. It's cope. But it's like at the same time like in this day and age with all the information that's around us and you just don't have the time. And everything is like so confusing. You're not gonna read the Bitcoin standard and be like, okay, yeah, I get it now and then give me that. I think that's it for today. Bitcoin from the very beginning was created by people in the West that already had, you know, more education, more financial literacy, or like just education, like cryptography and data science and whatever. They were the people who created Bitcoin and the first people who adopted Bitcoin. Germany, US, you know, it's all the West. And 15 years now after that, it's still kind of more, it's mostly in the West. You see some stories from Latin America, from Africa, and Asia, yes, you do. But it's such a small refaild. I mean, in terms of like this, like ethos that a lot of Bitcoiners like to say about hyperbid condensation and like it was going to overtake the USD as a global reserve, yeah, that is failed. But that, personally, I never thought that was going to happen at all. And I don't think it's going to be. We need a worthless fiat liquidity machine to fund a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff is going to be bullshit, it's going to be wars, it's going to be programs from the government that we don't need. But also a lot of like innovative tech startups are funded by just pouring dollars at that and not thinking about being profitable for a while just so they can have the freedom to actually build the technology that can change the world. If we are on the Bitcoin standard, everybody will become extremely risk-averse because it's the trade-off between keeping your Bitcoin and then putting into a business that might fail. Yeah. So we need fiat, we need dirty, dirty, but press of a button money to actually make stuff happen. They could have always coexisted. I just, I feel like we failed in that. For me, it should be really easy to understand and explain what inflation is. Why is the choice? And why it happens under any government? Because there's someone who you vote for, you're going to get it. Unless they explicitly make it their mandate, which say, "Maladed." He's explicitly made it his mandate and he's dealt with it. Everybody else is fighting on culture or parts of the economy that doesn't matter. But none of them, there's not a single person like party outside of Malay where they're like, the one thing we have to do is stop spending stupid amounts of money. We've got to stop printing money because it's ruining everything. And that to me was like, that's where we lost. Because I realize it's not that Bitcoin is anti-inflationary, but it's a tool to teach people why inflation is bad. And I've tried so, I've made so many podcasts, tweeted so many things about it. And all the Bitcoin is replied. Everyone else is like, no, that's not good. No. They don't want to get it. No. And it's like, they vote for poor. Yeah. It's just raw emotions. Malay were able to be a success because he explained the inflationary, like the Austrian economic theory that is very academic. He took that and turned it into a chainsaw. Yeah. And that's how you get the message. Not everyone can do that. Malay is a genius in that regard because he can drive narratives with very easy explanations. You don't have to read a white paper or an academic paper. You don't need to. Not about you. You can just listen to it. And that's enough. And a lot of people in terms of like the people who have pushed for Bitcoin adoption and for Bitcoin education, some of them, very few of them have done a great job because adoption has grown. Yeah. But I don't think it's for anyone to get anyway. What do you think it means? What do you think it means for Bitcoin? I think it's going to be a very important niche. It's going to be a cohort among like Goldbugs. It will coexist with a bunch of different things. And I think if you're smart, you have Bitcoin as one of the things for yourself and your family. But it's not going to be this like overtaking, kill, fiat, and the walls. No. It's not going to happen. It's such a shame. It is. It's such a shame. I just, you know what Bitcoin is like that moment when you first discover it and you it's not that you discover Bitcoin, you discover the lie of economics, yeah, and the lie of government economics. And you're like, Oh, I've got a cheat code out of this. And you want everyone to go that cheat code. Yes, exactly. I cannot find a way. I've tried Fernando. So we've like, not find a way to get that message to people. And so many people like you too on a, on a smaller scale, like with a friend from a family. You see so many tweets of Bitcoiners that I don't know. I was like, I'm giving up on orange pilling. People just don't get it. I'm tired. I'm like banging my hands against the wall. And you know what? It's okay. It's not for everyone. Yeah. If you stop thinking that it's not, it's for everyone, you're going to have a better time because just a few people will get it. Then maybe they're sorry, but the AI thing's the same because I feel like I'm banging the door with AI now in the same way I was with Bitcoin. Yeah, exactly. And I, these people aren't going to go home and spin up crawl and spend all night. No. I'm in their mind. They're going to go to Gemini and ask for a recipe for barbecue. And Chagy B.T. has a building users that uses it as Google. That is it. And then you have the French crazy ones that will change their lives. And hopefully the people around them as well will have their life change. But that is the extent to what it goes to. Oh man. Well, yeah. We, we're not covered in anything. We're not covered in what we had. Oh man. We can go on for hours with everything. No. We'll do again before you head back, man. I look, I'm very excited about it. And when we sound off here, I'm going to show you something up in one. I don't even want to talk about because it's not done. But I'm very excited about it. I'm mainly on the optimist side. I think it's going to be negative at the micro level for a lot of people, but at macro level, I think it's ultimately positive. So yeah, people spin up crawd asking to build some crazy shit and see what happens. You business tell people it's called perception. It's what I like to call narrative engineering. People who are building companies and they want to find narrative gaps in terms of what is the industry in terms of the digital asset industry. What are the current narratives that is happening? What is sentiment? Who's actually talking about it and how much of a life it has gotten? They can take that and then they train their models on their own company. What their brand is, their voice, their tone of voice, their brand DNA and what they believe in. They take these two things together and they can create positioning, PR, campaigns, marketing, so many different things that it has to do with how you position yourself so that you can stand out and not create slopp and sound like everybody else. So perception.io, that's the go check out perception. Fernando, thank you, man. We'll see you all soon. Thanks, listen. Thank you.