182 - Psyops, Propaganda Weapons, & Unrestricted Warfare w/ Jesse Carey

- Psychological warfare is real people. - The government knows how to make you poop your pants and melt your brain. - Oh, fuck a lot. - And we uncover the origins of Tarteria. - And Jess is gonna tell us all about it. - And that's where you go. This podcast is brought to you and powered by Sunday Cool. Watch this or listen. - This podcast is brought to you and powered by Sunday Cool. Watch or listen and leave a great review. Five stars, please. - Yeah. - You nailed it. - All right, there we go. This is what his recalls, nuts. - This is so good. (upbeat music) - Bingbong. - Bingbong and Marolan. - Five less. - So where are you from? - I'm from Virginia Beach, but I actually lived in Orlando like three years. - Nice. - Yeah, I was an editor at Relevant. - Okay, yeah. - So that's why it's in like the 55 West building at the time, like downtown. - Oh, yeah. - We just talked about he's producing a podcast as well in Calispell. - Yeah. - Oh, no way. - So we had a host out there. - So I might go out there actually next week. - Is it the guy from your UFO documentary? - Yeah, Andy. - Who hosts that UFO that chill black project? - Yeah, we need to talk, we'll talk more about that. That was awesome. - Oh, thank you. - Me and my wife watched it last night. - Oh, did you make it through the whole thing? I know it's kind of like 10 minutes left. - Okay. - But like, I was like, this is crazy. - Yeah, we talked about some of the stuff on the pod, but it was way worse. - In the last 10 minutes, he's just says, "Oh, we're just kidding, by the way." So he missed it. - Spoiler alert. - Yeah, suck. - No, when we talk to, I don't know if we like slow rolling in, but like, when we talk to Gary Nolan, who's like the Stanford neuroscientist. And, you know, Andy's a pretty, you know, Andy's former sales team six guy. He's very blunt. And I wouldn't say skeptical, but very like pragmatic, you know? And so anytime we bring in someone in from like the UFO community, I wanna be like careful, they're like credible. You know what I mean? You guys know how it is. I'm not like disparaging anybody, but you get a lot of like crazy. - Yeah. - But this guy, and like, dude, he's a Stanford neuroscientist. - You know, and you told this wild story. I don't know if you guys want me to pause or if you-- - No, go for it. - No, you're good. - But he told this wild story of, so he developed like, he was on Rogan, I don't know, like a month or two ago. But he developed this like brain imagery technology that is pretty big deal in like the neurology world. Anyway, these guys show up at his office at Stanford and tell them, hey man, you know, they're like in black suits, you know, kind of typical classic-- - Yeah, like you hear about the, you know, kind of minute black stuff. But he says, you know, they came to him and said, we have some people that work for us. We were at the DOD and they have these brain injuries that we can't identify. We'd like you to take a look to see what you can find. And so, you know, because he's a, you know, Ivy League, your neurological expert or whatever. - It wasn't. - Yeah, yeah, no big deal, no big deal. And maybe you heard of it, Stanford. And so anyway, he gets to talk to him. He's like, I gotta know how they incur these brain injuries. Long story short, these guys tell him that they encountered exotic materials during what seemed to be crash retrieval programs. And so, you know, it sent this guy down this rabbit hole and it's one of those things when you have someone crash, because everyone's got like a theory about this kind of stuff. But when we're doing black project, I wanted to be really careful about who we're talking to. - Yeah. - Because one kind of sideways voice can kind of discredit the whole thing. - Sure. - You know? And so, talking to him, talking to like Richard Dolan, who is like a UFO researcher, but he's also super pragmatic about life. - He's the British guy, right? - No, that was Nick Cook. - So, he was, his stuff was cool. - Dude, so his story is wild too. And that's one that I didn't want to do, I didn't want to do that documentary if we couldn't get him, because I really felt like he kind of anchored it. So, well, I think the British accent helps too, but he was the editor of "A Publication Go James Defense Weekly," which James Defense Weekly in "The Defense World" is like a really big deal, you know? It's every kind of contractor and aviation company references "Jane's Defense Weekly." And he gets access to like Bucky Martin, Skunk Works, everyone gives them access. And he started like seeing stuff that kind of made him curious about what is kind of being hidden behind the curtains, but he's also kind of top of the pyramid with having to kind of be the arbiter of what it's credible in that world, because a lot of people pay a lot of money to get access to the information he produces. - Yeah. - Anyway, someone sent him like kind of anonymously these magazine articles, I think they were from the 1960s. That said, like the anti-gravitic ages here, and it showed these craft being tested. And this was in aviation publications, fast forward a couple years, that just all goes away. And so he got curious, like, did it just go dark? And so he wrote this really cool book called "The Hunt for Zero Point," because he just became fascinated like, what if there are black programs within the sort of military industrial complex that are hiding super powerful technology that could have implications beyond just anti-gravitic aviation technology? Like the crux of it is like, is there a way, has there been something discovered beyond traditional propulsion that can be utilized? And the implication is, and you guys probably go down the anti-gravitic rabbit holes or whatever, but it would essentially, like the wrinkle in time thing, like pull space time together. So if the craft is here, and it wants to get to this destination, instead of using, you know, burning fuel and pushing it really fast, it could somehow pull that space time together and seem Thomas teleport. And so he got really curious about this and did, you know, one kind of trace, like, when did this first start showing up? And that's when he got into, like, the whole, like, food fighters and orbs thing in World War II, and traced it all the way through, like, you know, he did a deep dive. He went to the site of, like, the Nazi bell. - Yeah, the Nazi bell, like, the UFO that-- - Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. - They came upon. - Yeah, yeah. - And so the weird thing about the Nazi bell, well, no, it's kind of vanished, but the, like, structure that supported it was still around, that he was able to see it. And no one, it looked like some sort of, like, centerfuge, you know? And so it made him curious, like, if some of these Nazi scientists were experimenting with some sort of, I'm going to butcher, like, the science of it, but basically some way to, like, separate molecules that could create gravity manipulation, you know, create a system where more energy would come out than energy could go in. - And this is, like, the '40s, the '30s and '40s. - Yeah, this is, like, 1947. - Technology peaked at that point, and we have mail to reach that, yeah. - True. - Yeah, nothing close. (laughing) - Well, that's sort of what he is, he got curious about. - Yeah. - Because if you fast-forward, and there's a lot of weird stuff in between, but, like, if you fast-forward to after the war, there's Operation Paperclip, where the U.S. basically negotiated with, like, one of Ron Braun and all these, like, Nazi scientists, and brought them to the U.S. and basically gave them a immunity, but they're the ones who are sort of, like, the fathers of the modern American rocketry, of, you know, system. And so, but what he, and a lot of the people in that documentary, hesitate to speculate, you know? - Sure. - Because if you speculate and are wrong, you can be discredited. It's just, like, here's what we know for certain. - Yeah. - You kind of get the sense that he thinks that technology could have made its way over around 1947 and 1952. - That's when he started seeing all the UFOs pop up all the Roswell incidents. - Yeah. - Yeah. - There was a big one, it was an incursion in 1952, where, and we talked about this in Syop, the series, I think it's episode five. But there was a deal in 1952, where over the White House and all these military installations, and you can look up the press conference on this, we play clips from it in the show. At the time, it was the most watched, like, government broadcast of all time. This is in 1952. It was two weekends in a row. These lights that are showing up over the White House in military institutions. And so, I encourage, like I said, people can go watch the press conference. It's wild. It's like these, and two, everyone talks in, like, the 1950s, like, leave it to Beaver, like, - Maa! - Yeah, so we were here to say that was the White House going on. - But they're in, like, their Air Force Intelligence uniforms, and this was like a big deal at the time, you know? And that's that, when we kind of, in the show, we look at parallels between that and, like, the New Jersey drone encouragement. - Right. - You know, I guess, less fall, or whatever. And there's a lot of similarities. But after those lights are showing up, and the military came on and says, "But we don't know what they are, but nobody freak out." It was very similar to, I think they said it in, like, the 1950s. - Yeah. - Please be very, you know? But anyway, in the press conference, they had this other guy, who was like, "With all due respect to the general, I think these are interplanetary craft." And so, it was a wild time. - Yeah. - Have them nuts. - Yeah, that's crazy. - Have them crazy. - Yeah. But what happened is like coming out of that, the government launched what they call the Robertson panel. And the Robertson panel, it was like Eisenhower and Truman had a hand in it. And they were concerned about, you know, these, whatever was showing up. And so the commission, this panel to investigate, and it was all these intelligence people and mathematicians and stuff. And so they ultimately, they released their findings eventually, and this is in 1952. And they said, whatever it is, we don't know. But it doesn't seem to be a threat. But what they determined to be the threat was the hysteria that could result in people, you know, kind of freaking out. And they got very concerned, the Robertson panel, that if the American people thought that the military or the government was lying to them about this, it could cause like a total disruption of social institutions. And so the outcome of the Robertson panel was like, whatever these are, we should keep an eye on. But we can't let this get out of control or everyone's going to freak out. But that's led a lot of people to speculate that what came after that, which was like abduction stuff. Yeah. That's when things started getting weird. It wasn't just, you know, there was this guy's name Kenneth Arnold, and he was in, and if I'm going too far, I feel like I'm, I don't know, you're right, you're good. We're going to interrupt you at a certain point, but this is too good. So the guy Kenneth Arnold around the same time, this is a wild story. And we kind of dig into it in the show and play some b-roll and stuff from, from these interviews. But he's an aviator and he's in the Pacific Northwest. And he sees crazy crap flying around him. But he, you know, he's a pretty like, this is, this is before like the internet when everyone got weird. It's like, you listen to interviews with these dudes and it's like, oh, this is like talking to my grandfather. Like, you know what I mean? Like they're not, there's no, they're not like BS in a round. Yeah. They're like, no, man, this is, this is, this is out there. And it wasn't some conspiracy. It was like, someone should know about this. So he tells the military that he sees this craft. The military, you know, they do interviews with him, but he's not really satisfied with the efforts that they're putting into investigative. So anyway, fast four a couple of weeks later, there's a fisherman in the Puget Sound. And he's out there with his son. And he sees some craft flying over the Puget Sound. It starts dumping some sort of like metallic liquid into the Puget Sound. And he recovers some of it. And you know, he reports it too. Again, this is, this is before people could just be on Reddit and watch videos and kind of convince themselves of stuff. And these guys had really no incentive to make this up. I mean, they have a counter incentive, you know. And so it's so anyway, he does the same thing. And he's like, I got this material and he's trying to get the military to like investigate because he's all concerned. Well, these reporters are like, we should call Kenneth Arnold, you know, he saw something. Let's get him involved because he's sort of become this like advocate for transparency or at least investigation. So they bring him up. And it's I think it's in Seattle. And at this point, military Air Force intelligence, the Air Force had just been incorporated. So it just became a branch of the military, like a couple weeks before. So they bring Kenneth Arnold to a hotel and they start interviewing him about, you know, what he saw, what he kind of speculates as Puget Sound things was, he goes back to that office the next day, it's dismantled, right? All these sort of like weird espionage hijinks, like he starts thinking like people might be following it. Like a lot of weird stuff starts happening Kenneth Arnold. So he ends up the, they end up giving him some of the crash material at one point to examine to kind of give his thoughts. The Air Force intelligence guys end up saying, alright Kenneth Arnold, we want to take this stuff that was, that was, you know, retrieved from the Puget Sound. We're going to take it and investigate it. So these Air Force intelligence officers board a B25 and they're going to leave Seattle. They're going to take it back to the Air Force with this UFO material. Once after it takes off it crashes, of course, and so these are actually the first casualties of the Air Force were real who crashed in this, this flight, and the UFO evidently or whatever the material was, was never recovered. Of course. Yeah. But it's wild, but it's wild like when you, because all this sounds like a movie, you know, but when you dig into the history of it, it's, it's really interesting, but it also kind of, I think grounds it a little, you know, in the idea that I'm totally open to whatever, whatever it is, but I think kind of taking the Occam's razor approach, like let's start with, maybe this is conventional, highly exotic technology, but it doesn't originate from another planet. Like if you start there, there's a lot of evidence that, well, maybe that is the case and, you know, yeah. I mean, if you, if you reduce it to information, it's immediately palatable. Yeah. Dude found something and said, I'm not sure I should have seen this. They come recover it. They get on a plane and the plane goes down because of information. It's like, Oh, wow, something happened. Well, and then too, and this is where like the SIOP whole kind of aspect comes in is, so around this time, the Robertson panel also had this little footnote. They looked in American media of how many stories there were about UFOs and there were like thousands, right? They did the same thing because this is, you know, kind of the early stages of the Cold War at this stage. And the Soviets were the major concern. They didn't find one instance of one media story talking about UFOs. So our media is like littered with it, right? And our primary adversary at the time, this isn't even something that their people, you know, are even, you know, aware of, according to the media. So, so when this, the other kind of interesting anecdote is if you fast forward a little UFO culture, starts kind of taking off in the US, right? And at this point, a lot of people, whether it's like someone like a knit cook, who, you know, I think, I think he speculates about what the origins of this are, but definitely opened to the idea that it could be conventional, terrestrial, exotic breakthroughs and integrative technology. But, you know, people start thinking about aliens a lot around this time. So the other story that one of the other kind of anecdotes that we talk about is this happened. So if you fast forward a little, it's like 1980 at this stage. And there's a guy named Paul Benowitz. And he lives right outside of Kirkland airport base in New Mexico. And he's a veteran. He's a Coast Guard veteran. But again, like a real traditional, you know, not some kind of, I don't want to say crazy, I don't want to be dismissed. But you get it. Yeah. This is, he ran an electronics company like he was a pretty successful. He had contracts with the government to sell like radio equipment, really smart guy, like a electronics engineer. And he starts seeing weird lights flying around his house. And he has, like I said, he's like a electronics guy. So he starts filming it. And he's like, man, what is this? But again, he's a patriot, right? He's a veteran. And so he takes it to Air Force officials, the footage. Yeah. And he's like, guys, we could trust him. Yeah. Did not work out well for Paul, but so he, so long story short, well, I guess I can tell long story long, he, he ends up, they're like, oh, man, this is, this is, this is, you know, we should be concerned about this. We ended up assigning like a, an Air Force intelligence officer named Richard Doty, who's actually still around. Okay. Yeah. Remember this film in your documentary? Yeah. It was crazy. So he's, he's kind of different. And they'll be like, hey, we got to get to the bottom of this. You got to help the Air Force figure this out, you know, film whatever you can. Well, what Paul Bennett would sit and know is that what he had filmed was experimental aircraft, likely early drone technology. That was flying around Kirkland at the time. But instead of just saying, hey, man, you know, shut up, don't talk about it. Okay. Let's keep those videos on the DL or whatever. They're like, no, we have to, we have to like gas light this gas light the heck out of them. Shoot. Dude, they started, well, I mean, this went on for years too. At one point, they were broadcasting into his house because he knew he had all this, he was, you know, had all the sensitive listening equipment. Like he thought he was intercepting alien communication. He, at one point, they flew him over the desert and they had constructed a fake crash retrieval area. They had so messed up. They had like pipes coming out of the ground and like, yeah, that's the underground base where we keep the aliens or whatever. And this went on for years. They, to the point where he believed an alien invasion was imminent. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? Well, didn't they also, you guys talk about how he, they put people in his lives that talked about them being alien abducted and stuff. Yeah. So people would just show, so also like mutilated cows started showing up all over the place around his community and he got super interested in like cattle mutilations and he started going to these conferences and then people would come to him like, he had some weird encounter like there's one lady who got, I'm going to butcher some of these, she was like in a car our accident near his home or something ended up at his home. and told him that an alien abduction story about her, he was start like speaking at conferences and he was trying to blow the whistle. At one point, Richard Dodie and some of these Air Force intelligence guys ended up giving him like a laptop that had all this, what they said was like legit research that and it was really wild stuff. Like some of the research suggested that religious figures, you know, from all the major religions were actually like alien plants. And this is all made up stuff, right? Just a gas light. But he would go and disseminate this within like the UFO community and this is pre-internet. So now it's spread. Yeah. And he's actively trying to spread it to like warn people. And so you can trace a lot of, you know, the UFO lore of today. And especially sort of like the weird, like UFO religious stuff, like intersections to this. You know, some of those ideas were planted on a guy with the intention to deceive him. And he ended up losing his marbles, right? Yeah. He had a psychiatric break and barricaded himself in a home with a shotgun. Convents that aliens were after him and his family. He, you know, so he was institutionalized. He did recover, you know, he didn't die in the, but he was institutionalized. Like, God, is that why Elon always says we're the aliens? Probably. Yeah. Have you seen Kenneth Copeland though? I mean, look into his eyes. That do is an alien. Especially if he's coming off that private. Yeah. Him and Joel Osteen, they've got some type of alien DNA. Yeah. Well, speaking of losing your marbles. Jesse, do you want a song? Oh, I would love a song. I feel like the pod just, I feel like I'm downhills from here. People are going to be mad if we don't do a song. Yeah. I want to hear a song. I'm terrible memory. We'll just come with some. What kind of genre do you want, Jesse? Can we do a little Midwest emo? Or what we got, you know, mix in some EDM. Yeah, we can do that. That's easy. Yeah. With the acoustic guitar. That's easy. I can hear it. Yeah. Mm. Also, I got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. All right. I don't trust the lights. I don't trust the news. I don't trust the ground beneath my shoes. I wonder if this world is even real. If I can even trust the way that I feel. Know how this sounds. I can hear it too. But the more I ignore it. The more that it's true. They tell me what to fear. Then sell the cure. Don't know how much. More I can endure. Is it all sire? More than I've skipped a frame, yeah. Is it just a sire? The reason I can't trust, yeah. Am I broken or awake? How much more can I take? Is it all a sire? More than I just poop my pants. That was really good. I like how it was in a sire. I was gonna say, maybe it was both. Turns out I just had a bad bean burrito for breakfast. Guys, it's a sire. I brought it in. It smells. Guys, the government's on to me. They put the spoof in my pants in my jeans. I promise that was the government. Come on. That was very impressive. Hey, thanks, man. It's all you. It's all for you. We should add it to the series. Yeah. That'd be Sean. I'll see what Sean thinks. Sean, please. That's all we're banging. We'd love to have him on the pod. But if we just get to know that he heard our song about sire and poop. Yeah. I can lightly arrange that. But unfortunately, we have to do something, Jesse. Yeah. Let's do it before we move on. I don't know if you've seen our show. But I know you're in the business of asking the hard questions and answering them. So I just feel like it's just appropriate for you to answer this question. Let's hear it. Do we got to do this? Yeah. We have to. Yeah. I'm willing here. We owe it. We owe it to the people. Yeah. We owe it to Sean. We do. Sean. This question is for Sean. But Jesse's going to answer it. Today's question. Sitting by your viewer. Okay. Jesse. Are sireps good? It's a yes or no. I don't know if I can. Yeah. I remember that from from previous guests. Yeah. I feel you're looking for a straight answer that is in no way a setup. I'm going to say sireps are no good. I know. I think I disappointed the room. Just when I thought this was going good. I know. Just when I thought this was going well. This must be a sire up. I don't know Jesse. What you're thinking. Yeah. Because obviously sireps. Yeah. It stands for practice smiles yearly and often public services. Obviously. Obviously. Making the world a better place. Yeah. Really? And Jesse comes here and he says, no, that's not a good idea. No, everyone, everyone frown and don't help the public. Right after we sang him a song. And it's, it's, we try to put smiles on people's faces. We try to service the public. And Jesse's over here gone. Don't smile. Stop it. I'm just hoping. No joy. No joy. Instead. Boom. No one I just want to scare you. No joy, Jesse. That's what they call them. They do that. I heard that's what they call them. No joy on the streets. No joy, Jesse. No care, carry. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how you guys found out that that was. Now it seems obvious. Yeah. I mean, that's why my parents went with this name, you know. Well, they knew right out of the gate. I'm sad. I'm disappointed. We could, you could do the song again. No, it won't, it won't help anymore. I don't think we can fix this. I guess you guys heard here first. Jesse wants you to be sad and depressed. That's, that's the message. That's why he's here. To make you sad. To make you, I don't know, question everything. By yourself. It's public to suffer. He even said, I think he said it like. Oh, no, no, no. What's this move on? I'm gonna show you. Shit. Can I save Ninja? I'm in. Wonderful. You slurred out. You slurred out. You slurred out. You slurred out. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If February has a way of making everyone feel like they're a little bit behind in their love lives. Yeah, it's the flowers, the candy, couples everywhere. Whether you're married or dating or single or just trying to figure out what you want, guess what? It can feel like everyone else has it all together. Which is not true. Not even a little. 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And with over 12 years of experience matching people. With therapists, they typically get it right the first time. I've experienced that again. Myself, it works. And if not, you can switch to someone else at any time. A lot of people trust them. You're right on that, Josh. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists that have served over 6 million people worldwide and have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5. That's blockers from over 1.7 million live session reviews. That's incredible. The takeaway is simple. You don't have to have everything figured out to start feeling better about where you're headed. Sign up now to get 10% off at betterhelp.com/ninjas. That's better. H-E-L-P.com/ninjas. Thank you, BetterHelp. We love you. You're gonna make a fat joke. Don't make a fat joke. At me? No. Okay. You said fat joke. You looked directly at me. That's all I think. Welcome. All right. Thank you for having me guys. I think you win for the longest cold. I know. Well, that was so great, though. Well, I feel better. bad did I run? Okay. I did not. People love that. People complain. You guys don't talk about the cool stuff until the last bit of the podcast jokes on you. We talked to the beginning and now we're going to talk about not all downhill. Okay. So you sent us the link to side, which when this comes out, it will be available to the public. They can check it out. The new podcast by Aaron Kladd. It's just called Sia, right? Target intelligence. Sia. What's your involvement on the show? You're so I was like the primary writer. Okay. Sick. Yeah. Amazing storytelling. Oh, thank you. So thank you. Fun. Because I mean, just it didn't stay on something too long. The way you incorporate all the clips, the sounds. Oh my gosh, it was perfect. Oh, thank you. And so much credit, obviously, to the Iron Klad team and Sean and his team too. Yeah. We had a great team working on it. It was so good. I was listening to it yesterday. Like you just said yesterday, I'm like almost four episodes in. It's so good. But there are some things that I got out of it. I just wanted to ask you. Yeah. Let's do it. One of them was just the, what was it? The unrestricted warfare that you guys talked about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of warfare things that we talked about unrestricted warfare, cognitive warfare, smokeless war. Yeah. I'm just like, these are all new terms and it's crazy. Yeah. But can you give us a rundown in the unrestricted warfare? Because that was yeah, just and I think that's really the principle that if people want to understand just kind of the idea of siops, right? So there were these two Chinese military kernels. This is in the early 90s. And almost as like a thought experiment, they were trying to figure out like, how can you beat an adversary that is militarily and tactically and financially superior? And at the time, that was something that the Chinese military had to contend with for, for, you know, since like World War Two. But as they were kind of this rising superpower, they were looking at like, there's a real possibility they'll never catch up to the United States in terms of just military might. Now I will say, and we talked about this later in the series, they're rapidly catching up for a lot of reasons, particularly technological ones that we can get into. But, you know, so these two guys wrote this whole plan called unrestricted warfare and ended up getting kind of published and you can buy a copy on Amazon. But the crux of it is, if you can't beat them externally through conventional means, you have to launch a plan to defeat them from within. And how you do that is you first, you erode trust in basic social institutions. So that can be everything from like the idea of family, it could be the church, it could be the government, it could be the military, it could be law enforcement. And so if you slowly start to erode that trust, that can actually turn into an adversarial relationship. And then what you want to do is you want to make people confused about what is real and what is not real. And let the people of a country not even be able to determine, you know, truth from misinformation. And then you want to tribalize people. So you want people to, and this goes beyond partisanship. This goes into making people very worried about their own neighbors. Even, you know, beyond politics, like anyone who kind of sees the world differently, isn't just someone who, I might not, you know, theoretically get along with, it's a threat to my safety. And so if you, and then they also actually talk about how can you inspire, um, he gets going to dark like violence and social unrest and, you know, assassins and things like that. And they, so this, this was planned was in the early 90s. And it was kind of a long tail thing. And so they were, they have kind of been vocally looking for methods to apply these unrestricted warfare methods into American culture to weaken the United States from within. And so if you fast forward like 30 years, and especially you look at the advent of the internet and we still have no signs. We're doing good. So we want to keep an eye out for any of these signs. And you see it say something. Yeah, but we're all good. We're all getting along. Yeah. In the United States, there's no tribal. We all trust everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then you look at the most prominent social media platform is TikTok, which is owned by a company called bite dance. And bite dance is based in China. And there is no private institutions in China. Right. You know, the CCP ultimately can do whatever they want, not just with the data, but algorithm manipulation. And so, and we, we dive into this a little bit. But with TikTok in particular, and there's all this legislation right now. And who knows what's going to happen. There's a lot of like starting stops with it. But there are some particularly insidious things that are baked into the TikTok algorithm that Western audiences will get that behind the great firewall like in China, they're out, their TikTok algorithm is completely different. So, well, you guys talked about like in the West, there's like a ton of videos being pushed like in algorithm like self-harm. Yeah. Like just everything that is just terrible for your mental state of mind. Yeah. But in China, they're like pushing like math and science and like all these engineers on there. And you guys mentioned also like the like it was like 14 and younger or something in China. Yeah. You can only be on the app for like 45 minutes or something. Yeah. And it has a heart. That's like a legal thing. Yeah. Golly. And there's even things like how the app works at different times a day that's like depriving kids of sleep. And it's like harming. It's, you know, there's been measurable harm. There's legislation that is in Congress right now where you have kids who have developed like eating disorders and things. And they and they attribute it to the social media algorithms. We had on a, a woman, her name is Francis Halgan. And so she was a former executive at Facebook at the time that it now. And she, you know, the social network too, that's actually coming out. That's actually based on her story. So, so it'll be kind of, I don't know if she's involved with the film, but we got to talk to her. And she worked for Facebook's counter espionage team. And so this is around like 2019. And basically, they had said like, Hey, misinformation is becoming a problem. You got to, you know, we'll assemble a team and try to figure out some solutions to this. Well, what she found was that, you know, because they have all this powerful, you know, data tracking stuff that most of these kind of hostile actors for a lot of them, where whether it was, whether it was misinformation or just straight up like, excuse me, like fake accounts, like trying to stir people up, like someone going into like, let's say it was like troll farming or something. Yeah. So like, let's say there was, there was groups, they were target like mom groups, super chargers groups that were like, you know, advocates for the law enforcement community. And they would go in there and just kind of stir up trouble. And it looked like, you know, Bob, the, you know, the Red Sox fan, who's just really passionate about whatever, you know, issue is kind of the hot thing. Yeah. When in reality, her team was able to find that these were foreign troll farms, right? The main one was, and again, I feel like if I'm monopolizing any of this, let me know what I learned. Well, this is why we have you here. This is great. So the main troll farm was called the internet research agency. It sounds really, you know, professional. Yeah. Sounds nice. Yeah. It doesn't, they're just doing internet research. Yeah. Come on. But it was founded by a guy named Yagini Progojian. And Progojian, he's, he's no longer with us because he, people might know him better as the founder of the Wagner group, a mercenary group that I see the one that took up arms and was like marching. He was back on. Yes. Yeah. And he died in helicopter crash. So his story real quick. And then I'll get into the internet research agency. He was, he was basically like kind of a, just like a Russian thug and ended up serving time in Russian prison. And while there, he kind of got pretty entrenched in the Russian criminal underworld. He gets out, you know, he's this weird guy because as much as he is like this like street thug, you know, and there's some really crazy videos of him like don't even go down that rabbit hole of like on the, in the Ukraine war doing terrible things. But like, so anyway, when he gets out of prison, he is also like equal parts of entrepreneur. And so he starts a catering company. You know, I think he had like food carts at one point, but he ends up getting military contracts to do like massive like catering deals for Russian state events for the military. I mean, it ends up being like tens of millions dollars. There's a picture of him at one point. I think it was Bush. I think it was W was in, was that like Soviet say dinner and progoation is there as like the head caterer or whatever. So anyway, he leverages all these military catering wasn't like a cover like he was actually doing catering. He was, but he was passionate, but he was also like using it to, um, I don't know if he was like bright. I mean, Russia, let's just say he made a lot of money from a catering company. - Like more than you should from catering. - Yeah, exactly. And so he uses that money, and he's always kind of thinking about like the next thing, and he starts the internet research agency. And basically like, I think it was initially like 200 people. It was like minimum wage jobs, but it was kind of one of the OG like troll farms and companies could go in and hire them to like, let's say there was like a company that was a competitor. And they wanted to, you know, call that company stock to go down or something like that. They could hire these guys to go basically kind of stir stuff up online and create a public perception thing. And so companies would pay them to do like these massive misinformation or like kind of negative campaigns against different companies, kind of under the radar. And forgive my ignorance, but is that illegal or not illegal at the time? - No, technically not illegal, right. But everything, a lot of stuff in the kind of the pergusion world is on the boi of criminality. But when it did get illegal was other governments started saying, hey, we will pay you to stir up some social unrest. And so this happened in the Tigray region of Ethiopia. Like, France, Salgans team was able to trace a lot of crazy activity to some of these Russian and foreign troll farms where, I mean, people died, you know? I mean, Facebook as well. - These are being hired by other organizations, government agencies or countries or whatever to do that. - Yeah, exactly. So like, let's say there's like a, like a mine that has like valuable rare earth minerals or something in Ethiopia. Or there's someone who, for political reasons, would benefit from social unrest there. They would go up, they would create essentially like rumors online against these two, like, whether it's like ethnic groups or social groups. And in that case, you know, Facebook is currently being sued, I think the lawsuit is still tied up and who knows what will ever become of it. But France's Salgans team is the one who uncovered it. There was a professor in Ethiopia who there was all these internet rumors going that he was helping to fund this rebel group. And anyway, he came home from, he got fired from his job. He shows up to a driveway, 90 gets fired, guys on motorcycles come and shoot him right in the driveway. - And he was just completely innocent. - Completely innocent. He, but- - Just a random dude. - But yeah, the goal was to, that was the outcome of the goal. - Yeah. - Start a cycle of violence, create political unrest and in the vacuum of authority, powerful institutions can go in. They saw this in Myanmar too. - I mean, that was bloody and terrible on that. Over thousands of people. - Yeah, hundreds of thousands were displaced. And, but it was, you know, I mean, it wasn't a dissimilar method when you look at like the Rwandan genocide or something, but it was a different technology. Like, yeah. Like that was traditional radio. - Right. - Where the kind of turning neighbor against neighbor and starting this fear. They were weaponizing it and doing it through the internet research agency. And so other countries, I mean, they were, at one point, it was getting super sophisticated where they were hiring kids in, I think it was like Pakistan and they would pay them to create, they would scrape social media sites of like real people's photos and set up like whole fake personas of people that just looked like, you know, wholesome American families or whatever, but they have outrageous views about something or just kicking the hornet's nest. And so, and they were able to leverage it. And to a large extent, that's still going on, you know? But now they can do it through bots and stuff too. - So probably all the negative comments we get are just some Pakistani kids paid by Russia. - That's right, it's from the IRA. - Yeah, so now you know where that's coming from. - I feel better about now. - Yeah, yeah. - If anyone's hating on the song or anything like that, you know exactly. - Yeah, exactly. Get out of here. - Haiti can't sing. - Yeah, okay, Russians. (laughing) - Yeah, thanks, Putin. Thanks, Vlad. - But yeah, Pregozion ended up starting a mercenary group 'cause the Wagner group, which during the early days of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Putin hired them to kind of do a lot of the frontlines fighting. This was at the time when they were expecting that conflict to be, you know, a couple of weeks or a couple of months. To kind of do the dirty work, so that he wouldn't have to conscript Russian citizens. Any, and so Pregozion, basically he knew the prison system in Russia so well that he made a deal. He would go from prison to prison, right? This is a couple of years. This is like, I don't know, four years ago now. He was going from prison to prison with the blessing of the Russian government and saying, "Listen, your sentence is over. If you go to the front lines, if you make it through the deployment, you're free, right?" - My gosh. - And so he was going and recruiting from prison to prison and building up this mercenary group, bringing them to the front lines. And I mean, they were, these weren't professional soldiers, right? So like all kinds of horrible things were happening. But also like the Russian government stopped supplying them with ammunition and basic supplies and they were kind of on their own. Just, and Pregozion got so mad that he's like, he got them all, he basically rallied his troops who were who were in the front lines of Ukraine and marched and was heading back towards Moscow. And was going to March on Moscow. And he was so angry that they left him high and dry with ammunition. And this is a big deal. I mean, there's only a news story for like a couple of days. But they ended up, you know, kind of negotiating. And so they stopped the march in a couple of days later. Pregozion got on a helicopter go to a business meeting and there was a. - Oh. - A mysterious mechanical malfunction. - Was that the one that happened in the night? That like, that was like over. - I think so, yeah, I've never seen the footage of that. - Yeah, a mysterious mechanical malfunction. - That's crazy. - And that's where Pregozion's story ends. - So then it's happened. Oopsie, but all that says you can trace a lot of this back to this philosophy of unrestricted warfare. - Yeah. - Where, how can you weaponize emotion, right? Like, it's not about technological superiority. It's about psychological superiority. - Yeah, we'll hear in that instantly you think of what's happening in America right now. And what has been happening truthfully, like, I mean, since like 2020 before 2020, you know, like just the division in America. And like, everything is just like fueled by social media. And it's like, and then you hear this stuff of like, pump these troll farms and this misinformation stuff. And then you just start to question, what is real? - Well, and to that point too, beyond just like straight up political partisanship or whatever, or like, you know, you're being conditioned to like hate someone who believes different, looks different or thinks different about whatever kind of social and moral issue. That idea of questioning what is real. So another figure in Russia was this guy, Sirkov. And he ended up being like the minister of communications or the equivalent essentially, who's a propagandist, right? But he's very high off in the Kremlin for a long time. But his background was in theater. Like, he was kind of a theater kid. And he loved particularly Russians like avant-garde sci-fi. And there was a movie called Stalker. So the premise of this movie, you can watch it online. It's like a black and white's pre. It's actually kind of rad. You know, I kind of did a deep dive into it. But so in the movie, right, it's a sci-fi movie. So they kind of, into it that there's this like UFO crash or whatever. And it's created this zone where you can't go to, like if you're a regular person. But at the heart of this zone, apparently there's a room. And if you make it to the room, you can get whatever wish you want. Whatever your desires are. But you have to make it through the zone. But in the film, you know, troops are like guarding the edge of the zone. It's very dangerous. And you have to hire these guys called Stalker. So to kind of sneak you in there. And you have to try anyway, in the zone, reality breaks down. So if you drop a pencil, maybe it'll float. Maybe it'll fall, right? Like anything, you know, it's very true. So like, you guys, David Lynch fans, it's like very lynchian imagery in the film. Well, Circoff got really fascinated with this idea of the zone. Like what if you can make people question what is real and what is not? And how the world operates? And he decided to apply that idea to propaganda, of course. And so he decided, so like at one point, there was these different groups that, I'm trying to remember the details of the time. But they were, basically came from opposing sides of like the political and social spectrum. And what he did was, as a member of the Kremlin, he started secretly funding all of them, right? Then he leaked information that the Kremlin was funding these different groups. And so all of them started pointing at the other when they were like, can you believe it? They're being funded by the Kremlin, there. So all of a sudden, everyone's right, but no one believes each other. - Wow. - And so he created, like this zone of confusion, intentionally that it didn't look bad for the Kremlin, it turned all of them against each other because no one trusted each other anymore. And so he was sort of, He that was his philosophy of like old school wrote Soviet propaganda like that. Shepard Ferry, Obey, Posers, you know, like really clear, this is what we want you to think, right? Where the sort of the circle of method was, we just don't want you to know what is real and what is not. And in the vacuum of that truth, we can just hold authority. And so it was a totally different method of misinformation. And so you see a lot of that too, right now, you know. - I'm just learning that we need to just really advocate for people to pursue their passions when they realize what their passions are. We have this guy with theater. We have the other guy with catering. We have that other guy with art school. - Art school. - We just got to find the kids' passions at a young age and we got to push him. - Yeah. - We got it, 'cause they got ideas after work. - It'll lead somewhere. I mean, so when, what's the, is this guy still alive or is this a while ago? - Circoff, yeah. - Yeah, he's still alive. He's sort of on the outs with the Kremlin right now. That's one thing, no one, whether it's, you know, foregusion or Circoff, whatever. No one stays close to that level of power, especially in Russia, for a variety of reasons, mostly like corruption and things like that. Sometimes people know too much and become a liability. He's still alive though. There was an interview. - It's gonna move upon. (laughing) - He actually did an interview. He was like three months ago, but he had been silent for a couple of years. He's not an old guy. Like, he's reasonably young. Yeah, and he was sort of this wonderkin. - And it makes me wonder if like America ever does. Like, I mean, I'm sure we, you know, like Vaughn Braun or Vaughn Björn, whatever we get. - Vaughn Braun, yeah. - We brought him over. It's like, I want, like, you never know. Just who were, they're also bringing over to America to say, hey, you know, use your talents elsewhere. - Well, you know, I mean, just, you're doing it really well. - Like a lot of things work? Yeah, it's like, like a modern day project paper clip. - Yeah, why not? - Yeah. - I mean, it's a different type of warfare. We gotta capitalize. All I'm taking away is carons or victims. - Yes. - That's true. - Yeah. - It's propaganda. - Yeah. - I mean, they've got the Chinese government, the Russian government against them, and we're over here hating carons. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Talks. - Yeah. - By the way, Circus Mom was named Karen, and he hated her. (all laughing) - She's the worst. - No, but there's definitely stuff that happens with our own until, like, even going back to the UFO thing, right, so the Richard Dodie, like Paul Bennett Woods deal, where they're running like this gaslight inside, because ultimately it was the same thing. Like, this guy saw too much, right? So how do we protect a national security secret? - That's a crazy way to protect it. - It is to, like, basically let him disc, it's not to sort of protect the information, it's to discredit the messenger, and make people believe, not know what to believe. Like, there was a guy we talk about, he was Leon Davidson, and he's not, he's kind of an obscure figure, but you can actually read some of these memos and stuff he wrote. So this guy worked on the Manhattan Project, and he had, like, high-level DOD clearance, and he around the time he was working was around the time MK Ultra was first kicking off. And so, for MK Ultra, ultimately was the quest to see if drugs could be used to, you know, essentially as a method of mind control, particularly, like, massive doses of LSD, you know? But around that same time, so the government's already really interested in actively experimenting with mind control, in this case, on their own people, you know? Leon Davidson claims that they were so concerned about hiding advanced aviation technology. And again, this guy worked on the Manhattan Project, that they were using drugs, covertly, particularly psychedelics on people who had encountered aviation technology, that the government was developing. And then, so they would drug them and then create, like, an alien encounter experience. At some point, he claims, Leon Davidson claims that Walt Disney theme park designers were actually hired to construct fake crash sites that they would, like, so let's say you're someone who works in the Air Force, and you saw something you probably shouldn't have seen, right? Well, they, you know, what he was sort of suggesting is they would covertly drug you to elicit this psychedelic experience, and then take you to some place where you're like, oh my gosh, there's aliens here, right? - Wow. - And- - And- - And there's a head and Mickey. (laughing) - Is that goofy? - Gorge! (laughing) - But, but yeah, I mean, and so there are, any intelligence agency is, you know, counterintelligence is, and go and tell Pro and all the stuff. Like, everyone's just as active. It's just like the Chinese, and like, we talked to this guy who's an expert in kind of geopolitics, same Bill Gertz. And he, there's this Chinese philosophy, it's something like, to deceive the sky across the ocean, right? Like, he talks about, have you guys seen three body problem? - Oh yeah. - Yeah, so good. - So that is a Chinese novel, right? But like the weakness of aliens is they can't lie, or whatever, right? Where the method of winning is deception, and that is like ingrained in Chinese military philosophy, where, you know, and that's where it kind of comes into the siops, and particularly, like, the unrestricted warfare idea. - Yeah, it's so crazy. - Is there more proof that Disney was involved in that stuff? - No, I don't think anything outside of Leon Davidson, but he's, he's a credible figure. - I mean, it is weird that Disney had Von Braun on a touch trip. - Yeah, that was true of me out. Like, on their early Walt Disney specials, you know, where you'd be talking about the rockets, and so on. - Oh, yeah, I mean, we had-- - We had Nazi. - We also, I mean, we talked about that one Nazi. The, he was, I can't remember his name now, but he was a, he was the interrogator that, like, changed the whole game for the FBI's interrogation technique, but he's the one that created the murals, the Cinderella Castle murals at Disney. - Well, and it's like, that's, I mean, like, there's such a amount of overlap where it's like, this just seems strange. - Yeah, and, and, like I said, this is, he's not around anymore, Leon Davidson, you know, but like, like I said, I don't think there's anything that's verifiable other than his, what he said happened, but he's not a discreditable figure, you know? - Yeah. - But they're, even with Von Braun, and there's so much, this is a rabbit trail, but like, there's so much weird stuff with the rocket tree program, like-- - We've, we've talked about it a little bit, and like, especially with Jesse Michaels, getting into it and stuff with like, the occult stuff, and like, just weird, even today, like a lot of occult symbolism within NASA, and like, it's, it's, it's whack. - Well, that's another, another project I've been interested in doing. Now, we did a black project in Siop, it's a look at the, have you guys, are you familiar with, like, the Jack Parsons story? - Say, I don't know. - So, as I was talking about it, but. - So, he was, this is a rabbit trail from the Siop deal, but like, he, he corresponded with Von Braun. - So, Jack Parsons, like, the father of American rocket tree program. - That's right, okay, yeah. - He was a young guy, I mean, he died early, like, early mid-30s. Again, kind of suspicious circumstances. - Helicopter crash, he was no big deal. - He blew up in his own workshop, like, tinkering with stuff. But he, so this was a dude who wasn't like, he was kind of an outsider as a kid, you know, but was just obsessed with blowing stuff up, and he lived in Pasadena. And so, he kind of had a trouble upbringing, but he didn't have, like, a formal education, but him and his buddies were always just blowing stuff up. And anyway, you fast-forward to his, like, mid-20s, and he's sort of like this, Savant, when it comes to rocket tree. And he ends up founding JPL, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which is still operational. But Jack Parsons, that was his company, with JPL. And they got massive military contracts, and he was developing some crazy rocket tree stuff, like, because at the time, he was corresponding with Warner von Braun. Well, at the same time, he's doing all of this. He's living in a mansion with Alistair Crowley, which Alistair Crowley is, you know, maybe the modern era's most preeminent occultist. - Yeah. - And they were, they started their own, weird religion called Thelma, where they're trying to summon entities that they believe would bestow them power. And then comes along, Elron Hubbard comes into the picture. - Scientology, yeah, we talked about this a little bit. - Yeah, Elron Hubbard at one point stole Jack Parsons' boat, and they had a big falling out. But anyway, him and Alistair Crowley remain close, but Jack Parsons, or the father of modern rocket tree, was deeply, deeply into the occult. It's just a weird history. - It's weird. - There's so many people that are involved within, you know, rocket tree and NASA and all that stuff. And it's like, why does NASA find it such a high priority to hire these people that, I mean, that's not something you just dabble in, the occultism is like, that's something that like takes up a lot of time and energy and a lot of thought. And yet that's a priority for them to like have that type of thinking. - And I've thought about it a lot too, especially when I started working on this series, like, because I think initially it was sort of, when you look at all these topics, right, you kind of look at it well. It's either conventional and there's a lot of weird coincidences or there's something weird going on behind the scenes, you know? But I think there's also like the third way of thinking about it is like, there are institutions where it's convenient for people to believe something weird is happening too. So even like the stuff with like NASA, right? Well, I know like Diana Fisolka talks a lot about like the mission patches or each of these missions are named after like an entity. Jim and I Apollo, you know, and is that, is there some significance to that, or is it convenient for NASA to have people question, Hey, man, maybe they have. So we're burning back to that side up. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And I think, I think a lot of stuff in the space, you kind of have to at least entertain that suggestion, you know. But either way, it's still kind of malicious in a way. Oh, definitely malicious. No matter what way you go, it's like, well, why are you doing that? Well, and I think the reason, and this is one thing, not that struggle with, but just kind of thinking through it like, I do so like with the unrestricted warfare thing, like their ultimate goal, right? If you're a Chinese colonel is self-preservation, right? I have to take down an adversary and if I'm just thinking about this pragmatically, right? And I know they would beat us if we got to a gunfight, right? Or if our navies went at it or whatever. Well, what, yeah, it's a thought experiment. How could I defend my own country? And you come up with this plan and all of a sudden it's an evil plan, but your ultimate ambition is self-preservation. I also think in the in the national security space, I think some of the technology, and we, you know, we can talk about this, these direct energy weapons and stuff. Some of these technologies are so powerful, right? That if they fell into the wrong hands or were turned against each other, it's almost like a lesser of two evils type of situation that some of these intelligence officials are. It's like, we can either take every measure we can to protect the secret, including weaponizing, but I'm not, I'm not just to find it, but you could see the thought process. Understanding it. Yeah. Yeah. If you said like, hey, I have a weapon that is in our possession that does crazy things that seems like sci-fi. It is ours, right? And we can use it against people. But if it fell into the wrong hands or even people knew it existed, it could threaten humanity, right? What measures would you go to to hide? Yeah. And so you can see where they go through, well, let's just, let's just gaslight people into thinking there's aliens and, and I'm not saying that I'm not saying there aren't, right? Like I'm totally open to that idea, but you also have to kind of go through the intellectual exercise. Sure. Oh, what would you do to protect something like this? You know, you know, the scariest thing about this narrative though is the fact that you saw a craft. Yeah. What's your story? I'm curious. Well, mine was with my, me and my wife. This was what, four years ago? Yeah, a little more than that. Four or five years ago. We're in our yard. And she's all too. So it's not just me being a weirdo. It's special because I have this pocket. People really don't. I always think about the Tennessee one after you were already like on this like trail. They're like, yeah, let's, let's utilize him to keep him going. True. Yeah. But the one that we saw on the me and my wife, it was, I've said it so many times, but it was this giant V. Okay. And it was like, you couldn't see it except for the rim of it. Yeah. And it was like a full moon. So it almost seemed like the moon was like reflecting off of it. But I mean, it was huge. Yeah. It was completely silent. She's my wife screamed. I'm like, what is that? And then it was gone. And then it was like, and that was here intense or. Yeah, it was here in Florida. And I looked and it was like flying towards like Cape Canaveral area. So I'm like, I immediately thought I was like a craft, like a government craft or whatever. So it's also like, it wasn't like a, like a discus sort of thing. I mean, it was, it was very. Yeah. Yeah. B2 bomber ish. But anyways, they'd like totally freaked me out for to be fair. You guys had done just a ton of amount of valesity as we did. We're doing it. They don't kind of engage. Yeah. Holding a dredo of your face. Well, yeah. Well, speaking of secret weapons, I want to talk more about that right after this out because I had a pee. Hey, lovebirds. It's your merchant and parallel advisor and love expert, Rave Damsey. Everyone knows this month is special. Love is in the air. Hope is alive. And Sunday cool is already prepping for your summer orders. That's right. We all know you guys are freezing like an iguana in a palm tree right now. But we also know you have some mercy you need for your summer events. And it's never too early to get started, whether it's a summer camp or business event or heck of VBS. You know what? We got what you need to make sure to the event. No one's going to ever forget. Speaking of VBS, we have a ton of customizable templates that makes it easy for you to design the perfect tea for you and your group. Sunday cool dot com slash VBS. While you're at it, we can send you some matching hats, wristbands, stickers, whatever you're keeping shot heart and desire. So don't wait for love to pass you by. It's here, baby. 1-800-865-0726. Give me a call today. Is that good? Um, sick. That was a great pee break. Yeah, it was. Now I had to go so bad. Yeah, it was becoming all I could think about. I saw a video in TikTok, yes, and it's a lady and she specializes in helping people not pee a lot. I should do that. Well, she's like, if you're peeing every hour, you aren't supposed to be doing that. Sure. You should be able to hold it two to four hours. I said, that's never happened. Is she a neurologist? Maybe. Some P doctor. I don't know. Yeah. But she's like, it's a huge thing. It's a mental game. It's neurology and urology. Yes. Combined. And she's like, next time you have to pee. This is super weird, but it's like that. Do you do the, like the, what was it? Like the pelvic? Yeah, the old, yeah, the like you flex it. Yeah, muscles, pelvic muscles. And you breathe and you just try to think of something else. Okay. And I tried. No, I've got to pee. I tried to do that yesterday. I'm like, I just got to pee. Yeah. So I don't want to pee. This seems like terrible advice. I feel like if you got to go and you have access to a bathroom, yeah, I'm not an expert though. Just tense your butt and think of something else. It's like, you're a doctor because of this. I could have thought of that. Someone with the bladder size of a grape is like, man, I'm just mentally weak. Yeah. But I like how you're ticked out of them. It's like, dude. Yeah. That's IRA feed your information. Yeah. Oh, man. Just, yeah, just bladder misinformation. You don't have to pee. Wait a minute. These kernels are like ways to take down society, bladder infections. Tell me, when have you been more panicked? You're trapped in a space and you got a pee and you can't. Yeah. Dude, I think I, I don't know if I talked about it on the podcast, but like one of my, like, anxiety, because I have crippling anxiety sometimes. One of the things is like not being able to find a place to go pee. Yeah. That's why I discovered through EMDR. Yeah. Crazy stuff. It's a lot of money to pay for to find that out. But I saw this video where these people were flying from Cancun or El Salvador to Atlanta, Georgia or something in both bathrooms on the airplane stop working. And so they said, there's no more bathrooms working. So, sure there is. It's just not the one that you prefer. Me to go back. Yeah. Insanely. I would pee in a bottle. Yeah. Even if I didn't have to be, I'm like, I gotta go. It's like the established a peak corner. Yeah. So they have some of the office. Yeah. Immediately you established a peak corner in the cockpit. Ever you stand up, you're a leader. And you say, this is what we're doing folks. And I think it's wordless. I think there's just like a social exchange that happens in that moment where everyone looks at each other like, well, you know, you know, the implications of this, right? Everywhere's a bathroom if you pray enough. Yeah. Speaking of bathrooms. Yeah. I want to hear about these, these secret weapons. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. You say, you know, what I remember I was in college. My roommate was a music major for a while. And one of his professors also worked in like audio technology. And he was telling me this story. And I didn't really even think about it till like, here's like, we just thought it was funny that he was working for a project at some point that was trying to create some, there was trying to find a tone. The brown note, the brown note, right? Where it basically is a tone that would disrupt your bowels or whatever. And they would use it for like crowd control. But what a devious every note for you is the peanut. But you know, all I'd say is there's like a lot of development in direct energy weapons that uses frequency. And so like we were talking about understricted warfare, you know, the other kind of concept we really spent some time diving into. And this one, honestly, like I felt like the psychological operation stuff. And you know, we looked at like Edward Bernays and advertising and propaganda and all the stuff. Super interesting. But it didn't really creep me out. Like, like I said, I feel like you can come to sort of like logical. You could see how people get to that place where they're like, oh, I can manipulate. And I think we're all in the content space too. You know, like I feel like we all probably use our abilities for good. But you know how to tweak a thumbnail or head or whatever to Charles engagement, right? This is a lot of psychological operations to some degree or that. And weaponize. But the cognitive force that fair stuff is where it gets creepy because like psychological warfare is trying to manipulate what people think, right? Ultimately, whether that's a value or you know, what they think about a political issue or what they think about, you know, you know, an adversary or whatever. But cognitive warfare is really concerned with how people think. And so your cognition, and so what that can look like on a baseline level is like you can affect Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? So like, if you're, you know, at the very bottom of the pyramid is what they call self-accualization. But as you get higher up the pyramid, it's like love, affection, whatever. But at the very, or I'm inversing it, at the very baseline, like if you're cold, if you're hungry, if you're in pain, that's all you're going to think about until that need is resolved, and you can kind of move your way up the pyramid, eventually get to the Maslow set of self-accualization. So baseline cognitive warfare is just to disrupt your ability to think clearly about things outside of some needs. So like, if you see a lot of stories about like food shortages or things that threaten those basic needs, you start, it's like, there's a possibility that's a comment. So that's why we're talking about the kind of cognitive warfare attack because all the sudden everything you're also thinking about is clouded by, well, I got to put food on the table. Or the toilet paper thing. That's where my brain went. Oh, yeah, yeah. Go with it. Like everybody. We're going to run out toilet paper. We're going to get toilet papers. Yeah. And so, but as it kind of scales up, there's other ways to affect people's cognition. One of those is, you know, you look at the MK Ultra thing, like they were experimenting with drugs, but the brain through electronics and through frequencies. These can be manipulated. And so, they started experimenting with this. So, there was a guy, his name was Jose Delgado, and he's sort of a forgotten figure. He was Spanish, right? And so, he had seen, he had lived through World War II, he had, you know, he sort of had the generational trauma of like the Spanish Civil War. And he was obsessed with the idea of aggression because he saw so much violence. And, but he was also like a brain scientist. And so, he was, he was, he thought a lot about like, how can people become less aggressive and maybe humanity becomes less violent? And because he was a brain scientist, he was like, well, I'm going to start doing weird brain experiments. And he ended up getting toros, which are, they're like bullfighting bulls in Spain, right? So they are hyper, hyper, they're bred to be aggressive. They're not like, and they're like, you know, a Texas theory or something. These are most aggressive, like he said, bred to be aggressive. Anyway, he ended up having a theory about how aggression could be treated with frequency. And he created these implantable devices into, that he would put into the heads of these Toro bulls. And he would have them charge. And he had like a little device, he got a Stemosiever. And he could basically deliver different frequencies to different parts of the bull's brain. And it would, it would stop it in his tracks and it would create the bull docile. And he tried it on other animals and it would like change their whole countenance. So he wasn't just like disabling it, right? Wow. He was actually changing their mood electronically. And so, and again, that's like in the 60s, 70s. Oh my god. It was actual implant, a chip. Yeah, it was a chip. And wirelessly, wireless transmission. But so when you look at that, and then you look at, you know, like Neuralink and all that kind of stuff, it's clear that electronic stimulation and the deliverance, the deliverance of different frequencies to like stimulate different parts of the brain, can have cognitive and emotional effects, right? Yeah. Like it's demonstrating. And so the kind of scary thing with cognitive warfare is like, well, what if you could do that without the implantable? Yeah. Does this get into the whole Nazi frequency, the 444 Hertz kind of thing? Yeah. So there's been tons of experiments with the, what frequencies can affect people's mood or affect their physiology. So like we're joking about the brown note. At some point, there, there's an idea that the, some frequency, you know, would ultimately make a crap. You're saying? Yeah. Exactly. People's would not be able to contract, right? And you're, you know, bad effects if they say it, say it. And so, but then too, and this not to go down the whole rabbit hole, but I'm sure you guys have done episodes where there's a lot of theories about like, you know, you go to some of these ancient Megaliths that seem to have properties that were meant to channel sound, you know, maybe to achieve some frequency that would have some seemingly supernatural effect on p. So if you're in some big chamber, like a, this made out of granite that has a certain resonance to it, right? And you chant it or perform some ritual, you know, theoretically it could generate a frequency. And if there is, we can prove that these frequencies have psychological, neurological and physiological and physiological effects, maybe they, through some of these rituals, they were like creating these experiences, you know, that sort of blend the natural, the supernatural. But what from a military and, you know, weaponry standpoint, it is being experimented with in some really crazy way. So we had on the show, a guy who is the commander of the cryptological warfare for the Navy. He's commander, you know, we're just cryptological. So basically like they work really closely with the NSA on surveillance, counter surveillance, things like that, you know. But the NSA is, you know, everyone talks about like the CIA and all these advanced, the NSA is where like the really weird stuff is. But anyway, I talked to this guy who's, I mean, he's active duty commander and it was all these hoops to go through, you know, when you're working with someone with the Navy or any kind of government institution, but he was super cool. His name's Jake Beber and he is an expert in cognitive warfare. But particularly cognitive warfare, weaponry. And so you got, I think you guys did an episode, maybe a week or two ago about the Venezuela. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it kind of came out, there was like this account apparently from one of these like Cuban guards who these, you know, it was like a dozen Delta guys ended up taking out like a hundred dudes, right, that were guarding Maduro, that is compound. And one of the soldiers, and I've seen, I've seen some people question like the translation, like how accurate it is. But in effect, they were like, whoever this was said, the Americans had weapons that are unstoppable, that we didn't know where we were, we were bleeding from the eyes and ears, like there was no, there's no counter to it. Yeah. And talking to this, this Navy commander, he was like, man, there are cognitive warfare weapons that deploy technologies. And a president Trump called it like a discombobulator was used in Venezuela. So this is, so I don't know, this is like three months ago when we're talking this Navy commander. He's like, we have, imagine, he said it like this, he was like, imagine you're an infantry in your, you know, like storming an area, like a beach or something. And this weapon is deployed and it creates a confusion field and you walk into it and you're totally like disoriented. You don't know where you are. You can't think straight. He's like, imagine one that is a time warper where either time seems to start moving extremely slowly or extremely quickly. What? And now imagine you're in a gunfight. And I'm telling you this is like four months ago. He's like, those types of weapons exist. Oh, how does that work? How do like, what is that? How does that happen? So a lot of it, so there's a device called an L rad, a long range acoustic device. And I don't know if a consumer can buy them, but like private entities can purchase them. And it shoots like a beam of sound, right? And a lot of times what they'll use it, they'll use it for crowd control. Like you've seen that crowd control video, it was like Serbia or, well, they during like the whole piracy scare like the captain Phillips era, you know, part of the deals like these, those private, you know, vessels, they don't want to get, they don't want it to take lethal force, even if they're, you know what I mean, like that creates a whole not just ethical thing, but could get them in legal trouble. They start engaging in gun fights on the open sea, right? Yeah. So they started outfitting those with L rads. And what an L rad is is like, let's say a boat, you're about to be hijacked, right? And you have these L rads, they look like satellite dishes almost and you point out this boat. You can create a beam of sound that want, you can make, you can plug an MP3 player in it, but you can make it intolerable, right? Where it will turn the vessel around, like, and there's no defense from it. But there's also frequencies that you can, you know, take the same principles that guy, Jose Dogado was experimenting with back in like the 60s where it's mood altering, right? Because it sounds, it sounds woo, but there is like legit science to, you know, the neurological effects of targeted weapons, decks, so like Havana syndrome, remember her, Havana syndrome, yeah. Yeah. You know, I guess for a brief primer, like these American diplomats at these embassies around the world, a concentration that weren't, were in Havana, Cuba, but some of them were in the Soviet Union, all over the place, started hearing this weird frequency and ended up having a long-term neurological threat of thanks from it. Fast forward. I want to say this was like 20, 18, 19-ish. This was in the keys, right? There's a Ford Mustang that's like going crazy, like a hundred miles an hour. The cops end up getting a car chase, pull it over, okay? We play a clip from the actual police encounter from the vest camera, whatever. In there's like a burn bowl, which is a bowl where intelligence people will burn documents and things like that. There was also a device that would wipe the, any of the tracking on the Jeep to car GPS so you can't tell where it went, you know? Like a lot of shady stuff. In any way, the guy was like a celebrity chef from Russia. I mean, this guy's been on TV shows, again, I don't know what it is about Russian chefs. Long story short, he had worked, he was a Russian spy, and had been working in Russia on frequency weapons. And he had a lot of weird technology in his car. While an FBI interrogator is like, you know, the days between interrogation, she's trying to get information from the Russian spy who worked in direct, the direct energy weapon field. She's at her home and starts hearing like a crazy buzz in her ear and ends up she's still having long term neurological effects. But these type of direct energy weapons are super, like I'm working on another project. I can't say, well, it's called shadow figures, right? It's in, hopefully it will be on TV soon. It's hosted by a guy named Chad Robeshal, who's a former force me recon Marine, great dude. And we take team to special operators and try to either confirm or debunk conspiracies, right? - Cool. - That sounds sick. - Albarino's been on an episode, you know, L.A. Marsouli was on an episode of some guys, you know? But we did an episode on Project Blue Beam, right? And the premise of Project, and this is something that Warner von Braun actually even talked about, like, at some point, would the government get to a place where they would have their technological means to manipulate a society. And they would do it through basically like mass, not hypnosis, but like either they could, could they stage like an alien invasion or could they stage like the return of a religious figure? Could they simulate a supernatural experience, right? That scale, and the way you would do that theoretically is through some of these direct energy weapons. And so on the show, we took devices that, again, I'll show you guys off camera if you want, but like, you could buy, if you really wanted to, and you guys could probably do it, you guys are all audio guys, you can create a device, right? That shoots a direct, it's almost like, think about a flashlight beam, like if you threw dust in the air and flash light through it, you can do that with sound, right? But you can also do it in a way that it uses like bone conduction, right? So like if you're a diver, you can't wear headphones underwater, but you can put a little microphone on the back of your skull, and it uses bone conduction to vibrate in your brain and turpent set. - Well, they have those headphones now that, you can only swim, and it's just vibrations. - Yeah, yeah. - And so it's the same principle, right? Where this bypasses your eardrum, it actually vibrates your skull at a really low pace. - Like cochlear implants as well, right? Like that's how they work out. - And so we did an experiment with, we rigged up this sound beam, and the idea was, could we make someone believe we were there hearing a voice in their head? - Are we guys doing this? - Yeah, okay. - It's like, we want it, we simulate it, we wanted to see if we could technologically simulate telepathy and make someone believe that they were experiencing telepathy. So we did this whole setup, right? Where, you know, they, they, they, but you could see someone's whole world view change, right? - Yeah. - Like someone's sitting there and their whole face, they're like, I hear a voice in my head. You know, like. - Oh, it's so scary. - But if you think about like, what's available to governments, or especially if this technology-- - I mean, if you guys were able to do that, what you're seeing is what can the government do? - Exactly, yeah. - Exactly. And so-- - That's a large, large scale. - Yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and that's when you get into this cognitive warfare thing, where it's like, okay. Psychological warfare is scary, because I think we've all seen, people are very manipulatable. Psychological. - But you can like get out of that. - Yeah. - There's a way to reason your way out. - Turn off your phone, don't watch TV. - Yeah, go live in the woods. - Go away airpods. - But cognitive warfare, that's the manipulation of your brain. - Exactly. - That's scary. - And that is very similar. - I don't like that. - Well, and that's what-- (laughing) - I'm gonna go on a record and say, I don't like that at all. - Well, listen, and going back to our conversation earlier, where I don't want to, I'm not, I'm not advocating for gaslighting, you know, people who have seen crazy aircraft or, you know, misinformation or anything. But imagine you're in the seat of someone who knows the technological potential of what existing technology is capable of. And knowing that if it falls into the wrong hands, what the results could be. What links would you go to to protect that information? You know? And then you can start seeing this whole path of like, well, maybe we just flood the zone with crazy, you know, with crazy encounters and feed people stuff so that no one believes what is true and everyone is second guessing. Because ultimately, I don't think it's possible, especially on a large scale to keep secrets. I just, you know, I don't sure. I think it's just outside of human nature. So in order to protect secrets, you might have to let them out, but also with a bunch of disinformation. - Yeah, yeah, Alex Jones. - Yeah, it just keeps feeding. So it's like, you know, well, a guy who I talked to for the series compared it to, there's a method of disrupting, or they used to do it. The radar's got more sophisticated, but basically like, before they would do like bombing raids, they would fly over enemy territory and drop flecks of metal, sometimes like strips of metal. So that the radar would just bounce off of it. And when you fly through, you know, the radar doesn't know what is fake and what is real. And he's like, now just apply that to intelligence, you know, that it's not that the plane isn't there dropping the bombs and your radar doesn't see it. It's that it sees everything all at once and can't deter. It's circle of zone. It's what is real, what is fake, you know? - Ooh, it's good. At least we have to give our consent to the government for them to manipulate us. - Exactly, they're very trustworthy. - Yeah, it's probably in the terms of conditions, like do you consent to being used by DW? And I'm like, yeah, it's just giving me to my iPhone. - Yeah, that's insane. - Yeah, it's so scary. - I know. - Going into the warfare. - Well, and it was crazy to hear because it's not like I questioned the dude when he told me about like confusion fields and time warpers. - The time warp thing is, that kind of makes sense though 'cause I'm like, whatever. Like when I'm having like a panic attack or something, time just seems different. Like either it seems slowed down or super sped up. So that is totally like, it's brain chemistry. - Yeah, even not in the like panic zone. Like I talked to a buddy of mine, he competes in like extreme sports. And he described like when he like hits flow state and he's like doing a run, he's like, he's like literally, it looks like my boards and slow motion under my feet. So like something happens in the brain where time doesn't change. - But he's saying it's like perceive it differently. - They're like creating like a field. - Yeah, that's targeted. - Cool. - Yeah, but again, it's not like a question when he told me he's a Navy command. Unless, you know, by the way, that's one thing around the like, you're the sire, man. Like everyone's like, maybe you sire up in me, but then when after this Maduro raid, I was like, dude, that's literally exactly what the guy told me was that they have, they can create a confusion field. And the president called it a discombobulator, you know? - Discombobulate. - I didn't hear him say that. So the fact that they're even mentioning that it does exist 'cause that was a big thing. - Yeah, he was interviewed by, was it news, nation, or something like that. And he's like, yeah, we have it. - Weapons, make you poop your pants. But yeah, it's wild stuff. But, yeah, you know, but I also don't want, I'm not like, I'm, you know, someone other people that I've talked to about this is like, I'm still like an optimist. I don't think people should like freak out. - Sure. - But I do think, I think there's a level of discernment especially as like Christians, where, you know, there's been a lot of weird, like sort of supernatural belief systems that have evolved in like, I would say the like, little last 10 years when it comes to like kind of paranormal stuff that I feel like is in direct opposition to some core Christian theological tenants. And it doesn't have to either be, well, you know, what we believe is wrong and look at all this weird stuff in aliens and orbs and, you know, or, you know, this is all some weird supernatural deception. Maybe all that's true. But there's also evidence that other stuff is going on that is conventionally, conventionally explainable, you know? That we should be concerned about, but it might not offer the sort of like ontological threat that it's just like, oh man, that's scary that they were able to fear that out, you know? - And also just being aware of it. - Yeah. I listened to a couple of your guys' episodes and I just was spewing this all off to my wife while she was like, first thing in the morning. She's like, this is also scary. You're gonna scare everyone. And it was just, to me, it's like, just know that it exists. So you don't fall for it, you know? So you know what's happening. So that when you, these things come up and you start, you know, getting triggered online or something, it's like, well, maybe you gotta realize, like, hey, this isn't all real. - And even, like, think about the example of Jesus, though, we talk about it all the time where he's like, you know, give the Caesar what Caesar's not here to overthrow government. I'm here to love, you know, love your neighbor. Like, every time he, they tried to pin him in a left or right, somehow he was like, we're arguing the wrong argument. - Yeah. - He was like, wisdom is to be still and know that I'm God and listen for the still small voice. Not from that guy's device, but like the real one. - Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a good point. I mean, discernment is huge, especially within Christians, but you can also discernment. I really do feel like it is from the Holy Spirit, but it's also a practice. And it's like, if you are flooding your mind with TikTok and crazy narratives constantly, your discernment goes down. I feel like, yeah. And that's part of the psychological warfare, right? It's this frame, this confusion, what's real, what's not? - That's the clutching of the Holy Spirit. - Yeah, it's like, just like, let me guide you. And if you don't let it, then it's like, it's gonna become more and more numb to you. - Yeah. So just focusing that practice on practical things, like even just reading a book, I feel like it's way more healthy for focusing on the truths. - Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's crazy. But it's like all this stuff that you're saying, and then just what you're seeing on the news now, is just, it's crazy. It's like this clear division. It's happening in one spot, really. - But there, but it's also like, you know, the, it's a double-bladed thing, right? So there are certainly adversarial forces who are incentivized to create division in fear, right? And if you look at, like I said, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you're afraid of something, like if you're legit freaked out with something, like you feel like you're under threat, it clouds your judgment on everything, right? So there are adversaries that are absolutely incentivized for national, for, you know, military purposes to keep population in fear. But there are also commercial incentives where like I said, we all work in the content business, you know, like we know how it works. If it bleeds elites, you know, like we're all consumers, you're gonna stop scrolling, you might not want to watch like the gas station fight video or whatever, but you're like, oh, you know, like you're hardwired, you know, for a lot of different reasons to, for that kind of thing to capture your attention, you know? - Yeah. - But I also think, your point about reading the book, like I think it's very important to be aware of global and social issues and injustices and things like that. You gotta be, especially in the democracy, you have to have an informed citizenry in order to kind of make good decisions. But at the same time, like it's easy to lose context of the scale of those issues. If you're only, you know, observing the world through a screen, where if you're like, like if all of us like, like this morning when you picked me up from the hotel, if like I walked around that morning got, you know, well, you know, window coffee shop or whatever. Most people right now, and I think it applies to most people on the planet, like are just going about a normal day, having normal interactions. And most of those interactions are probably pretty good. - Yeah. - With other humans, you know what I mean? Like they're at least not negative, like checking out of the hotel, hey, you know, what's up? You know, just like, chitchatting. But if you only observe the world through a screen, you're gonna be conditioned to believe-- - Everybody hates each other. - Yeah, yeah. And but that's partly by intentionality and design and it's partly selling ads. Yeah, yeah, the algorithm taps into the id. Like, that's just so messed up. - Yeah, and the government doesn't want the best for you. And so it's like, okay, is the government want me to be a consumer? Does it want me to consume this content? Okay, yes it does, obviously. So maybe I should hold back on that a little bit. Yeah, I'll be aware of where I'm being pushed. We don't want to be sheep, you know, it's interesting. - One of your episodes, it was maybe chapter three or something in the side of thing. You started talking about the Tarterian stuff, which I would love to hear more about that 'cause we've talked about it a little bit. - Yeah. - I've always been like, this seems absolutely whack. But then you get those things where it's just like, oh, there was a region where it's called Tarterie and stuff like that. - Yeah. - Where you guys, I didn't finish the episode, but were you able to trace the Tarterian thing back to-- - Yeah, and it's pretty insidious, actually. - I would love to hear it. - So like, I'm totally open. So just for context with the Tarterian thing, because some people are really passionate about it. And I'm not trying to call anybody gullible or anything like that. But I think this one is observably, you know, kind of absurd on the scale of conspiracies, right? - Yeah. - I mean, it's out there. - Yeah. And so basically what it believes is there was like a reset of history, the mud flood. Yeah, there was a mud flood that wiped everything out, but this was like 200 years, right? This is, we're not talking about like 1000. - What created the Megaliths in Peru or whatever. You know, where there's like, oh, maybe there was some sort of, you know, younger dries or flood or something that wiped out, you know, I think that's a pretty conventional understanding, right? This is like, no, this is recent history that there was an advanced civilization. And the evidence they point to is like, look how cool architecture, you know, like, post-Roman architecture is like over the world, like the Taj Mahal, the Capitol building, does. - Yeah. - And so they must have had, they couldn't have done that with hammers and chittals, that they must have been this advanced society. Some sort of mud flood wiped it out in the history of this population, it was wiped out with it. And it's being hidden for some sort of nefarious purpose, right? - And then that CIA document, which we've read, which I've read on. - Yeah, so the origin, so there, yeah. A lot of people will point to a CIA document that talks about the history of Tarte Arabian wiped out. And then you, if you look at the context for all of this, is there was an area in Russia that was the Tarte region and the people there were Muslim. And after Stalin came to power, Stalin was a staunch atheist and part of institutional communism was the eradication of any religious system, particularly minority religious systems. And so he essentially wiped the Tarte Arab people from history. The CIA document is basically saying, this was an effort by Stalin, to make the Russian people believe that this community never existed. - Which is crazy. - Not because they have possessed advanced technologies, because they were a religious minority. And so you do have maps that have the Tarte Arabian, you do have a concerted effort to wipe it from history. But then if you fast forward a little bit longer, there's this mathematician, his name's Fomingo, is his last name. And he's very influential in Russia. And he wrote this, it's like eight or nine volumes. Like it is huge. And what he believes is that modern history is all lie. And that actual history is only, I think he says like, you know, stopped in like the 16th, like it's hundreds of years shorter than an actuality. And that all history, whether that's the story of Christ, whether that's the settlement of America is actually what the Russian people did, right? And you know, so Christ was Russian, the settlers of America were Russian, that all of the world was, this is Russian history. But after the fall of the Soviet Union, that was co-opted by the West. And some of the evidence he like points to, he'll even look at like the placement of stars in like Renaissance art, you know? And do these mathematical calculations, because of the mathematician to say, well, if you calculate it, it couldn't be possible because of the placement of the stars. This is actually, look, it shows that this was 500 years were added on to the calendar, right? To create this cycle of history that rewrites it. So you can trace a lot of these like Tarterian, like conspiracies to one, Stalin making an effort to wipe the, you know, that region from history. But also this kind of like kooky Russian mathematician who is literally attempting to rewrite history. And even there's like the, not to get like into geopolitical stuff, but like, if you look at some of the early justifications for like the invasion of Ukraine, was, well, all of this is Russia's anyway, right? I'm not saying, I'm not trying to like it, but you could see how something like that could be used for geopolitical purposes if people are conditioned to believe something, you know what I mean? So yeah, crazy. Yeah, Tarterian. I still believe in it. The might fact. And the thing is like, I don't, I don't want to be the guy that's like, 'cause I love, and I'm sure you guys do too. I mean, obviously like going down these rabbit holes, you know what I mean? And I don't want, they are fun. Tarterian is so appealing. Like it's because it's like, it is just a fun idea. Like, oh my goodness, their whole, their world existed before us. Yeah. I will say, I mean that there is some truth though I believe to the rewriting of history of just like the winners get to write history now. But going as far as like, there's this whole, I mean, because you can, there's so many different groups throughout the world that are even the Native Americans with their oral traditions. It's like, there's no advanced civilization that was living here in the United States. You know, like, yeah. And, and, and I think it's okay to like go down the rabbit hole and entertain, but at sometimes you just, I think again, part of it comes out of these, the subtlety of these psychological operations, you really want to be careful about because, you know, looks like you guys are in the space too. Some people, if you start peeling back the onion a little bit, who are like hardcore believers and whatever sort of their, you know, favorite kind of conspiracy is like, you can get some dark places. Yeah. And they're like, you know, yeah, I, I have been, I, when we first started the show, I would start getting down to this dark place. I'm like, this is too much for me. Yeah. It's like, it's one thing with like Bigfoot and cool stuff like that. But, but sometimes, and again, I don't, I'm not sure the point of the finger is at any one person or one ideology, but, but, but, but, but you got, but, but you got to be discerning in this space too. You know, I mean, we always, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, you're good. No, we, we always know when he's, when he's found himself in one of those rabbit holes because he'll come in the office and he'll be like, we just need to get back to Bigfoot. Let's, let's spend an episode talking about Bigfoot. Well, yeah, it's also like what you can start constantly consuming because if you go down these rabbit holes or whatever rabbit trails, you can get stuck in them and you can go deeper and deeper. And then you're just like, this world is a terrible place. Yeah. What, what hope is there? Yeah. Everything's alive. You know, where, yeah, I mean, especially that this should have been the discernment thing. Earlier just being Christians, it's like, well, one, we are citizens of a kingdom not of this world. Right? Yeah. Like, this is temporary, but our job is to die kingdom come. Like, we're trying to establish God's kingdom on earth. And if you have a starting point of complete, you know, disdain for the place where you're supposed to be establishing the kingdom, I don't know if that's healthy, you know, for sure. Yeah. And that's where that daily bread comes from. It's like, that's your center focus. No matter where you go, as long as that's the cornerstone, you're good. Yeah. But a lot of the times that gets lost in the mix and you're just and it gets just overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have some, I have some more questions for you. Yeah. Yeah. But we're going to ask these questions on our Patreon. Patreon account for such an engine as a butterflies. We're going to talk about some crazy or stuff. Yes. And we got that extra episode also on YouTube members. If you join today, but on Patreon, we got exclusive content behind the scenes footage discounts on swag. It's totally worth it. We're going to continue this conversation. We could be talking all day. Yeah. If you ever want to come back, we'd love to have you back. Dude, I would love to come back. I'll talk to Chad and the guys. Hopefully that show shadow figures. Yeah. Hopefully I didn't say too much about an episode. They're going to be mad at me. But like, hopefully that'll be out too. And I'd love there's some, we can talk off camera, but some wild, wild stuff. I'm really proud to be a part of that. Yeah. I think they're all intrigued. Yeah. I mean, it's ready to stream. I mean, some of the stuff that if you guys have a few minutes after, I can show you. Oh, yeah. Please. That we found and did in that show was pretty mind blowing. Okay. Hopefully we had to see that. So what else can they follow you? What else do you got to promote? We obviously this high up show that's going to be able to stream everywhere, right? Yeah. So I would, yeah, it's going to be on by the time they hear this, at least episode one or two will be on Apple Spotify on YouTube at this is ironclad. I think it's going to be on Sean Ryan's YouTube as well. Sean Ryan show. So be a weekly drop. Yep. Yeah, every week. And then I also weekly co-host the relevant podcast though with Cameron and those guys, you know, have been involved with relevant for a long time. So sweet. You hear me there. And then at this is ironclad and check out all our shows. You see black project that you will put them in the description. Awesome documentary. Yeah. So watch it. After watching, what's the age of disclosure? Yeah, I just came out. I'm like age of disclosure has nothing on this documentary. Oh, you're just so fun to watch. Oh, thanks, ma'am. Age of Disclosure is just a bunch of politicians trying to promote their books as well. Because I need to read this in my book. And it's like, why is everyone promoting a book? And some of them are walking it back around. Yeah, I mean, like, come on. It's crazy. Anyways, we love you guys. Thanks for coming on. We'll see you. Love you. Thanks, Jesse. What are you about to say? I'm gonna disturb you. I'm enough. Yeah. Any of you know what it's all the time that [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]