#167. Why Marketing Matters From Day One With Lacy Lieffers

Let's stop thinking about sales in terms of you pushing and you selling. Let's start thinking about as a conversation with a potential reader. Think if you just had any book you want to promote to another reader, maybe it's another off you read, what would you say about that book to tell them they'd want to read it? Do the same thing with your book. Then a marketing is just simply the vehicle to get that message out, to communicate. The marketing is of course the platforms and the methods and the tactics and strategies. Marketing is not this big thing. Sales is not this big thing. It's just a conversation with someone you're having and where and when and how you're having a conversation. Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming. So each week I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable, and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode I'm sharing a conversation I had with Lacey Leifers from Black Fox Marketing. Lacey's a marketing coach with over 16 years of experience and she specializes in helping authors build their personal brands and successfully market their books. She's known for transforming overwhelmed and uncertain writers into confident, celebrated authors. And Lacey's all about making book promotion feel less intimidating and more empowering, also that authors can turn their dreams into reality. And as I mentioned in this episode, we're going to talk about marketing. So specifically we're going to dive into why book marketing is not just a final step in the process, but more of a vital component that you need to address throughout the entire writing process. So whether you're in the early stages of drafting your manuscript or preparing for your book launch, it's really important to understand and implement marketing strategies that can significantly impact your book's success. So Lacey's going to talk to us about all of that today. She's going to share some actionable insights and expert tips to help you build momentum, connect with your target audience and ensure your book gets the attention that it deserves. So with all that being said, I won't make you wait any longer. Let's dive right into my conversation with Lacey Leifers from Black Fox Marketing. Hi Lacey, thank you so much for coming onto the fiction writing, ladies and podcast today. I'm so excited to have you. Hi Savannah, thank you. I am so excited to be here. Yeah, and we're going to dig into all things marketing. So before we get into that, can you just share a little bit about who you are and what you do and things like that? Yeah, I am a big brand new marketing nerd. I love working with authors. I have been in the marketing space for well over 16 years. A large chunk of that. Working with authors, just helping them identify their personal brand, help them find their readers, help them expand their reach across the world and just really teach them the ins and outs of marketing promoting their books. You said you've been in the industry for 16 years. There's like so many things I want to ask you just based on that. Like, what have you seen work? What have you seen change? But we'll get into that, I'm sure. So what would you say to an author who's starting out? They've just written a book or maybe they're they're just starting this adventure. So they're like googling how to write a book. Like, when do we start thinking about marketing? Where do we start with marketing? Talk to me about that. Marfayne should honestly start at day one. So it can be a very scary overwhelming term. It feels like something bigger that a lot of authors often push to. Okay, I'll just a worry about marketing once I finish writing the book. And unfortunately, that means that it's a little bit too late to start at that point. When you finish and publish your book, you already want to have an audience that you can actually promote it too. And that's often why a lot of authors see very low engagement, slow follower growth. They don't see a lot of book sales or maybe stagnant book sales. And so the sooner you can start marketing, the better. Now, of course with that, that doesn't mean full on, create email, get ads running on day one. The actual start of marketing is just really thinking about your end audience or your readers. So what are they interested in? What would they find value and what would they enjoy in your book? And starting to make decisions based on that. So what kind of platform should you be on? What kind of content can you create that they might find of interest and value that you can highlight as you write in going through edits of your book that you can pull out much easier later on creates an offensive content. So sometimes the start of marketing is just simple awareness of your audience, what they'd find value in and making them decisions of what you can share and create later on when your time is a little bit more freed up. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I think a lot of writers go into it thinking this umbrella term marketing. And so they think they have to do everything right away. And it gets really overwhelming, right? Because they're like, okay, I hear people saying I need to build a list. I have to create a platform. I have to be on social media. I have to do all these things. And then I have to like actually write the book and create a freebie or whatever it is. So I love that you were like, you know, just pick out the things that you can kind of start doing gathering pictures of you doing the process or sharing you writing your book or things like that, right? So this is something I see happen a lot with writers where they're they'll say something like, you know, kind of like what you just said, they don't start marketing early enough. And then when it comes time to market their book after it's done and they kind of just start, they think that marketing failed and it's not going to work for them and things like that. So do you think it all just comes down to if you start early and you have zero platform when you start that you can actually have success marketing your book? Absolutely. I mean, it's a matter of starting early, but also being really intentional with your choices as you alluded to there, marketing, it can be a scary realm. A lot of people get overwhelmed, frustrated, burnt out when they try to market because I think it's just all these actions and tactics and platforms and strategies. So they think I've got a market now they go into doing everything and you could really quickly get overwhelmed by just the amount of choices and things within there. And you can find yourself just spending a lot of time and money and energy just trying to implement a lot of these tactics without really stopping to say, are these right? So yes, the earlier start, the better you set yourself up for success because sometimes you're stopping, taking a breath and making a plan for that launch, a plan for the promotion, a plan for the rest of the books within your series or your backless helps ensure that you're properly promoting everything. You're properly utilizing the time when you're not as hands-on, i.e. the times when your book is off at the editor or made with reviewers, where you can actually be building some of the content or looking for authors or influencers or people within the media to help promote your book or looking for collaboration or promotional opportunities to have spend that time. So yes, the earlier you are, the better jump start it gives you to just set up that success. Not only that, but when you can start talking about your book earlier, you can get an email list running, you can start talking on social media, you start collecting your audience and you actually start building the habit of talking about your book and promoting your book and selling your book, which is the other scary piece of the puzzle for authors, where selling feels like this scary, pushy, aggressive type of space that it doesn't need to be. So you get into this, it gets you comfortable talking about your book, the value of what people are going to find comfortable, it gets you into the habit of promoting or creating content or sharing stuff or you get to start talking to readers about your book, finding what they find interesting to change your promotions and tactics. So it just allows you to create a better strategy, but it also just helps you create a warmer audience that when you do have a book to sell, you actually have people that are your followers that have sign up for your newsletters that have started to engage with your heard about you on a podcast or at an event or from a friend or an influencer they trust that it's a little bit easier to start creating those sales when you are ready to help promote those sales. Yeah, so it gives you a longer runway, like you said, helps us warm up our audiences. I think it also is important to note that it like lets you explore and make mistakes and you know, because none of us, myself included, we don't come out of the gate like knowing what's going to work or knowing what we like or how to bark at something. So we might start out doing something like posting on Instagram and it's like, yeah, our captions back in the day could have been better or whatever it is, right? But at that time, it doesn't really matter. It's more just like getting your feet wet and getting that momentum rolling degree. - Exactly. Oh, I absolutely. And you look at that like think of how many authors will create a spin-off series from side characters that their audience really love. At that time before you publish your book and those early days when you publish it, it is your time to build that connection with your readers to essentially test what's happening. That's why things like arc readers, beta readers are so important in the process as well, because they can give you that early readers specific feedback of parts and characters and scenes and quotes and sections that they really love that they're interested in, that again, you can help implement into your rating. But it just, it becomes your testing ground. And let's not forget every single author out there, no matter how big they are now, started with one book and no sales. So therefore no readers. So it's an easier time for you to get in and get comfortable using your voice and speaking and creating content or using the right words or tropes or things to say about the book to use to it because it's a practice. It's a new language you're trying to speak. It's you trying to talk about something you know so well to someone that knows nothing about it. It can be a really hard transition of your promotion, your sales, your marketing message to get out there. So it's a great time for you to practice and to learn what's working, to learn what people are identifying with to lean into those things a lot better or what things don't work to adjust or tweak or avoid those things going forward. Yeah. And I think you said something important that a lot of us don't think about our favorite authors. They literally started with zero. So zero book, zero sales, zero platform, zero email list, all that stuff, right? So speaking of starting at zero, if I'm an author, whether I'm just starting or if I'm trying to catch up on some of this marketing stuff that I haven't done, where would I start? And I know like, you know, there's I feel like there's a almost like an impulse to go straight to social media because it's the thing that we see. I often tell writers to start with their email list. Where do you fall in that? Yeah, I see and hear the exact same thing. [BLANK_AUDIO] Social media feels easy for people because a lot of times people are on social media already, but you have to think they're almost 8 billion people in this world. A large chunk of that are on social media and a large chunk are creating content and sometimes multiple pieces of content every single day. So when you're just starting out and you're trying to find your audience, it's really hard to grow it on your own and to build up this audience. To increase your awareness, to have people start getting engaged where people really buy once they feel connected and they're engaging with your content, they feel more connected with your characters in your world. So social media is a great tool once you have an engaged audience, but it's non-effective tool to really start building if you're brand new emerging author or you're just trying to build your audience. Versus tactics like email list, it's a great tool where people are, they're committed, they've read a piece of your work, they're following you, they are kind of more like your VIP saying, "I read this, I was part of this world, I enjoyed it, I want to continue an experience and I want to use this email as a reminder for when something exciting or new happens." But even then, it can be hard to build people into that list to start. So the tactic, Boapa, like boring other people's audiences is where I actually tell a lot of authors to start, to build up that audience to help increase that awareness. What that means is you look for people that already have an audience, already have a following that matches or is in alignment with yours, that they have credibility, they have trust, they have engagement built up. So influencers, book talkers, bookstagrammers, other authors, people within the space people like you that speak specifically to potential readers that can talk and have credibility and trust built up with their audience, that they can essentially endorse you to say, "If you love this or you love the other books, I've suggested other authors are recommended, you're also going to love this person." So when they can give a recommendation, you're now being given access to a whole new audience at a level of, "This is someone you have to look into and you should check out these books." It's a lot easier because you're getting recommended and it's not just your voice saying, "This is really good." So, right, we're starting. Get as many people talking about your books as possible and as many different platforms. Yeah, and I love that. So let's talk about that a little more because if I'm an author hearing this, I might think that sounds hard. Like, why would someone with a couple thousand followers want to promote my book? What's in it for them? I have nothing to trade them. How do we get over mindset stuff like that and what are some things we can do to get these relationships built and to execute what you're talking about? Yeah, I love you saying that because they hear that all the time. And a lot of times we as authors, we, not that we get down on ourselves, but we get so caught up and impossistend, and like maybe it's not good enough, what if people aren't going to enjoy it, what if they don't read it, or the fear failure, like what if what if it does actually suck, or what if right? Like, we just get so caught in our heads and it is, it's everything about writing and publishing a marketing book comes down to your mindset. So one, you have to understand that there is value there. And this is why I always tell off, it's like, really start to think about your target on it. So you're your readers, who is going to read the book? Why are they going to want to read this type of book? What is unique about you? So what is kind of unique about your brand, your writing style, your characters, your tropes, the way you're delivering it? What is unique that they can identify with them? So really know what your audience is going to get for value out of it, about what they're going to enjoy, what other things they like, and then what parts of it's going to enjoy. But then it's kind of that matter of shifting towards who then can I talk to? So understand the value, look for people that own access to that audience, but then at that point, it's your job to come to the table. And at that point is where you have to come in, understanding you have value to connect. So let's not forget that someone that has an engaged audience, their goal is to provide value to their audience. If you have a book that you know is going to help and that their audience is going to enjoy, it is your job and your responsibility to communicate that to them. Now things like this is we're having beta readers, the people that are coming in in the earlier stages of editing your book, giving feedback, can you have like early comments or thoughts or notes about it, having arch readers like advanced readers that can read your book after the editing published or point, but before it's getting published, it actually gives you reviews people within the space. It's so important to have those not only to help with your marketing and promotional opportunities, but to kind of give you almost like a little boost of confidence to say, these are people that are in this space, they're honest, depending what they're saying, it kind of just helps give you that little bit of confidence as well as giving you some reviews and comments and testimonials that you can go to the table with as well. Say like, hey, like the book is coming out, it doesn't even matter if this is your very first book, because here's what people are already saying about it. And you snip it and concepts. When you know what your audience really loves within a book, like say you're writing in a romance genre which has so many different subgenres and plots and styles and tropes, you can say specifically the key words, terms and phrases about the trope and what it likes. It just makes it easier for people to identify. It helps you create your pitch so to speak, to go to your audience, whether go to the influencer off, that is say this is what the book is about. This is what readers really love. Here's what some people are already saying. And any other credibility or proof points or other collaborations or any people within you industry or space that have said really great things, it just gives you that value to come to the table to half the time. It's really just their own boost of confidence to say, "Hey, I'm actually a value here." Their audience will like it. You should interview me, but it just also gives you that credibility to open up that door, to open up that yes. And then to supplement that, that's where you can give additional things. You can offer up an exchange for review. If you have an email list, you can offer to promote them within your email list or share their podcast or promote their blog. You can offer up a giveaway with a copy of your book, either a physical copy or maybe a couple of digital copies depending how global you want to go and give their award. You can do these extra things to create some extra excitement. So it's not simply you just getting asked to promote it, but it's giving them something to actually promote and to drive and something they can really get behind and rally behind. So there's even more value coming to the table. Yeah. And I think that all kind of comes back to knowing what are the right types of people to work with, because like you're saying, a content creator who let's say has a bookstore and they share romance books with certain tropes or whatever, they want content, right? So they want to be able to share books and it's kind of getting in that mindset of like, like, yeah, maybe I can't do anything for them in terms of sharing their account with my email list, because maybe I don't have one yet, but you're still providing value via something for them to talk about on their channel. So I think that's really cool. And then the other thing I think writers discount is that let's go on this example of romance. So if you wrote a romance novel, what do we have a value in that romance novel? Well, we're giving readers a feeling that they want from romance novels, right? So when we say value, it doesn't mean like how many followers are you bringing to the table or whatever it can mean those things, but it's also the reading experience holds a lot of value. That's like what we're all doing it for. So absolutely. There's anytime you read any book, no matter the genre, the trope, the whatever, there's a transformation that is happening for that reader. Now that transformation can be formed of education, entertainment, value, and emotion, a feeling. Sometimes the transformation could just be decompressing after a really busy day. It can be their way to just come back to itself. Maybe their way to fall in love with love again or learn a new skill or get a new habit or go on adventure like readers when they read they go on this journey whether it's a journey of excitement or adventure or it's a journey of growth and evolution. And it's such a cool part for an author to be. And that's where like every single time work with an author, the first question to ask is tell me what you're target audience like tell me what you're readers. And I don't want you to say age, gender, and where they live. I want you to tell me about the behaviors, the way they buy, the way they make purchasing decisions. I want you to tell me about their psychographics, like their personality, their interests, their hobbies, like other things that they find value. And because normally that like it gives you some other stuff you can talk to relate to, but it also gives you other points you can look into and take a peek at. For example, I had an author who was a treasure hunter. And he wrote a book about how to create a metal detecting business on Kichiji. So like the most niche specific type of book you can ever create. And he did so incredibly well. He was bestselling for both of his books. He had this massive company then she actually picked up and paved for the cost of the second book. Hard to be one of their pros that they flew around the world talking to events. He had bookshops and stores buying books for like 50 at a time or more to sell. He was going to interview on podcast. He got invited onto TV shows to be on because we really focus on his audience and where we can go and approach him. So for example, we didn't only look at a bookshop to carry books. We spent the time looking at other hobbies and interests and thought who is most likely to pick up this book and enjoy it? Well, people that are ultra adventurous, maybe they like hunting and fishing and camping. So he'd reach out to stores like Bass Pro Shops or Cabellas or just local mom and pot fishing shops and we approach them and went to the same table. Like here's the book, here's what it's about here. What people are saying already the same stuff I'm telling you guys. And they found the value and they brought the books and they were selling. And people love the message they focus on the brand because when you can think about what value reader is going to get out of reading that book and enjoyment, now you've locked in on what value you can create and makes it so much easier to pitch your book to submit for an award, to sell it, to sell it and to talk about it, to ask to be promoted or interviewed. Yeah, I think that's so cool. And it reminds me of this author I worked with who she wrote murder mysteries slash mysteries that took place on a cruise ship. And so part of her marketing thing was like, I want to get my book on cruise ships, you know, and I thought that was so cool. I'm like, that's, you know, totally makes sense to me. So go for it. But yeah, sometimes it's thinking outside the box of like where we can actually promote our book and also thinking outside the box a little bit in terms of like what value means. Because again, it's not always like numerical, right? It's it's how do we connect with readers and give them what they're looking for? So I feel like we're circling around. You need to know your audience and you need to have a platform at some point. You need to start building a platform to start connecting with that audience. So do you want to talk about like in your words, what is an author platform and like where would it authors start with this? Yeah, I love that. Different types of platforms. Social versus digital. So social more like the Facebook, the Instagram, the TikTok, LinkedIn. There are also those sneaky ones you don't think about like Pinterest where you look a lot of fantasy authors around Pinterest. A lot of even nonfiction authors are on Pinterest because there are a lot of people that will search on that for tips, tools, resources. They want to look at pretty quotes. They want to see pretty illustrations. They want to just get into the world. They want to look like there are all these different platforms that can be on socially where your goals are just really connect and build a community with your readers. And then there are more digital platforms such as you can create a blog, you can do a podcast, you can have a website, you can have a link tree type of landing page where again, it's about creating community but it's also more providing the information and a path to purchase an access point for just all the how-of-your-information, your freebies, your story, your book lengths and purchase links and everything else. And really again, like the choice and it's going to feel like broken record, but the choice comes back to, well, where is your audience? Like what kind of book, what genre are you writing in, what are the subjohners, like where your audience actually, what platforms are they using? But it also is like I always tell authors, think of what platforms you enjoy too. For example, if you're a fantasy author and you have these books, well TikTok and Instagram are two really great platforms for that. If you absolutely do not like TikTok, it feels completely overwhelming. You don't want to be in that space. It's okay to not be on TikTok. Again, let me remind you, almost eight billion people in this world. If you're not on TikTok, but you're on Instagram and you're consistently creating content, you're providing stuff that is a value to your audience, you're showing up, you got the right tone, the voice, you're talking about your books, you are going to still get sales, you're still going to create with your audience, you're still going to be able to create a community and a sense of engagement with your audience as well. It's fine if you don't use TikTok and maybe it's a down the road or maybe it's a never. So again, like yes, there's so many different platforms and options and choose the ones that make sense. I also always try to encourage authors to add one into the mix. So get on one, get comfortable because social media can be really overwhelming and it can feel like you're spending all this time creating content and stuff that you know they're going to love and you post it out there and it's crickarts and you hear nothing and you get no followers and nobody's engaging and maybe it's just your family, your friends that are engaging that aren't necessarily buying the books, it can feel really frustrating and overwhelming, which is also why I say that both are starting to get other people to talk about it helps because it also has a point, a place to drive people back to. So yes, really good content. So when people get driven to your page, they see a lot of really good book related content and not just pictures of you at a beach or on a vacation, but it just, it really does help and it just gives you a really good space for that. But just be cognizant of what the platforms are and that it can be overwhelming. So take it easy. Get on one, get comfortable as soon as you're consistently showing up where it's like three to five times a week, you're posting, you've got good voice, you've got some pretty decent gauge when you're building, that's where you can add another platform on and you just start creating content that's maybe tailored to that platform and get control in there and then once that's controlled, then you keep adding. Yeah. And I think something I see a lot of writers do is that though, let's say they show up three to five times a week on Instagram and they're doing that and then they still feel frustrated because they're like, I'm not translating this into growing my email list. And then we'll look at their Instagram and it's like, well, you're not really asking your followers to do anything or you are just kind of posting these like I went to the beach last weekend and here's what we did. And it's fun, but it's kind of like, what are you expecting people to do, right? So there are like, yes, we need to do this, but there are strategies. You can also lean on that are going to help you get the result you want. So is it creating a freebie? Is it, you know, part of the platform I feel like is knowing why someone should sign up for your email list? Are you going to get writing updates? Like, what are you going to get if you sign up for this email list? And so when I think about it, I think about all of that. Which platforms do you want to be on socially? How are you going to build your email list? It's not enough to just like if it were enough to post dog pictures and grow your email list, I'd be proud of that. You would do right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like thinking about this the whole strategy of it. And I think that's part of why you say we need to start early, right? Because it's more involved than just throwing out pictures three times a week. Yeah. Well, and if anybody listening doesn't have an email list yet, start one. There are platforms like Mailer Light author email that are designed specifically or better suited for authors and entrepreneurs at the prices are better, but just get when started minimum, you only have to post once a month. You give an update of where your books are at. What's happening? Any cool milestones or achievements? It gives you another bargaining chip when you are wanting to collaborate with other authors, but it's just the best place to actually sell from your books. Again, those people are VIPs. They're more engaged. They're more of that warm audience of they've interacted you before and enjoyed what they read or saw or heard. They're most likely to keep buying versus social platforms. You're constantly approaching and attracting new minds. People have engaged. It's a lot harder to get to say they're a lot colder of an audience. It's hard to get that sale. At any point, you can see like all of a sudden something happens where you get locked out of your account. Someone hacks it. All of a sudden, Instagram changes their algorithms or also a weird glitch happens at the close of your account. You lose access to everybody. Email is yours. As long as you don't start spamming people email, it can save you bars. But it just comes out. So it's so incredibly important to do that. Then we look. Another part of the puzzle you talked about is holistically sharing the entirety of your brand. Authors have this and you have a personal brand. It's your identity as an author. It's a world you created that characters you developed. The storyline and everything else. It's like your brand is just what you share with your audience and your readers. And that's what you're trying to achieve. What you're working towards. What you're offering people. You care about and everything else comes apart of your brand. But when you are talking about a weather through your email on your website, when you're getting interviewed on your social media, you have to holistically show everything. So yes, it can't just be pictures of dogs, can't just be pictures of your vacation. It's okay to put a little bit because those show character. We want to show everything. So you want to show character. You want to create content that creates more affinity. So more stuff that they can relate with like book suggestions, office suggestions, quotes that you love that are within that same space. You want to create value based content. Well, what does your reader want most? Well, if they're in the fiction world, they want quotes. They want snippets. Book trailer is they love X to create some motion with them. It creates a feeling. It evokes a sense of excitement or love or terror like whatever it is that you're creating. Like it just can do so much there. So it adds value to their day. They're the sales specific types of content where you're driving something to take a very specific action like sign between our reader, sign to be street team, launch team member. Get the book on pre-sell, get the book on sale, sign up for this contest as promotion. So you can use things like novellas and short stories and snippets to drive people into your newsletter. Get them subscribed to see these updates where again, you're giving value, but the goal is to actually promote to sell to get them to convert. And then you can create content that is very authority focused where it's showing your credibility and why you are the person in that genre. So if you were being interviewed, you got any awards or best-selling status or you're getting testimonies or reviews or things, it just gives more credibility. Children not just you saying your books are good, but shows other people are inviting you into their space. They're wanting to talk about you. They're giving you the reviews and they're showcasing that out to people. So when you share all of that stuff, it now shows who you are authentically and holistically, but it helps add people and it ensures you're driving people to sign up to email where that's your spot to buy. It ensures you're driving people to your sales pages. It ensures you're driving people to get to know your character a little bit more and increase an engagement everything else, which helps just generate those future sales because they feel connected to you as well. Yeah, and I think it's important to note that like none of this has to be perfect in the first iteration. Because even this is where I see an I get it because I'm a perfectionist, a recovering perfectionist, I like to say. But like we hear we need an email list. We hear we need a website. We need all this stuff, right? None of it has to be perfect. None of it has to be complicated. You can literally have like a landing page when you're just starting to write your book with an email collection thing. And maybe that's it for the first, I don't know, six months. Doesn't matter. But what you know, it's I always think it's better to have imperfect action than not taking the action because you're never going to get the result you want if you don't take the action. So I love that. And I feel like we could go off on a tangent about author platforms and like vibes of our brands and you know, things like that. But I keep getting stuck on this like the word feeling and the word of motion and the word vibe because there are things that we don't think can count as like relevant to our book. Like for example, if I'm just stuck on this romance thing too, like if you're writing a romance and a guy, the main character is a chef, right? You could share like recipes or and like stories about why that recipe is important to you that evoke the feelings of love and intimacy and friendship and family and whatever. So sometimes I find it helpful to think about almost like what's the mood board of your brand, you know, what's that you're trying to evoke and then what fits in there. And it makes it feel more organic and less like I have to create 20 can be graphics because someone told me to. Yeah. Yes. Well, and keep in mind, every single person's world, we buy off of emotion, no matter how logical you are, you can buy in something because it creates efficiency. There's an emotion there because they don't want chaos. They want order. They want security. So no matter what, you are selling to an emotion. So you have to speak to that emotion. You have to speak to what it creates. And that's why things like book trailers are really beautiful because we put someone in that emotion. The music, the images, the graphics, the visual aid of it creates that that's why quotes work so well. Snip it, short stories. It gets people excited. It gets people in that world and we can tie that we have a little section and seen from your book and else in the end it's like to continue journey. Get it here. People can I can't tell you how many books I bought because I read some scene or some broke or some show that sounds great. Let me try it out and I bought the book and I read them like, oh, this is actually really great. And then I sent it for the newsletter and then every time they put [BLANK_AUDIO] on any book, on Buy Not Book, too. It's so easy to capture people, but we download, so we forget it's like our biggest point of value is the book itself that characters, the story is the world, and we think it has to this whole elaborate thing we create, but it's just, no, just promote what people love. And if you're not sure what it is, then go back to your Bader Viewers, go back to your ARC reviewers that we've said you need to get. And then look at their comments, look at the characters they love, look at the parts where they mentioned, say like, oh, I really love this, or this was perfect, or it was such a great enemies to leverage type of romance, like whatever little tropes that they are saying and commenting, that is your bread and butter, just take those, even if it's seven things, and just keep putting those on repeat and keep sharing news. So again, it's not you selling or promoting, and I like to tell authors, like stop thinking about sales in terms of you pushing and you selling, and let's start thinking about as a conversation with a potential reader. So think if you just had any book you want to promote to another reader, maybe it's another off you read, well, what would you say about that book? To tell them they'd want to read it, do the same thing with your book. And then in Markley, it's just simply the vehicle to get that message out to communicate. So the marketing's of course the platforms and the methods and the tactics and strategies. So marketing's not this big thing, sales is not this big thing. It's just a conversation with someone you're having, and where and when and how you're having a conversation. So that's it's between one book lover to another, what would you want to tell them? - I love that, 'cause it's almost you're, but almost saying like invite them to read it and they can say yes or no, but you're just having that conversation and it can be that simple. So I love that. The other thing, so this is reminding me of something I see a lot with writers who they're doing the things, they're doing the strategies, and then they're saying, okay, well, I'm not seeing my audience, I get all my email list or whatever. And then I look at their Instagram and maybe they're just speaking to other authors. So like they're doing all the right things, but they're speaking to other authors who maybe aren't their target reader, maybe some of them are, but maybe they're not. Do you see that happen a lot? - I do, and this is where we lose sight of who we're speaking to, so that audience. And it's very easy to do that. Everybody does it. It's so easy to get caught up, especially wanting to share stuff. So then you go, okay, she's tasking me with affinity based type of conscious that makes them feel connected. Okay, so what am I doing my journey? Well, I'm writing. So they talk about their writing journey, talk about the process, they talk about the hows and what's they're doing, and yes, they're creating content, but then they start to attract around people. So a lot of times when we don't see, like we see slow-faller growth, we don't see a lot of engage, we don't see likes, we're either saying the right thing to the wrong people, or we're saying the wrong thing to the right people. And it's a simple quick switch to go, and you can even do before you create that piece of content for anything I've actually had some authors, and like, go on and create their reader, and they feel really uncertain and hesitant around creating content. I'm like, okay, so here's your ideal reader. Here's what we talked about. Let's just look on Google and search for a picture, and you can get man and woman, making it both. It just kind of looks like him, have him printed out before you write that piece of content, before you go and do that interview, before you write the book description or author, or anything, I want you to just take a look, and for a second go, what would they like? What would they find interesting? And if you don't, like, I'll actually work through my clients and through all those questions, well, where are they going? Where are they feeling now? What do they want to feel? reread through that, just get you in that mindset, because it's so easy to just get caught in a trap of just telling people what you're doing, and just creating content, because I have to create content, but we forget who's supposed to be reading that content. So always, always, always has to add value. And I talk to people anytime with authors, it's your goal is to create a brand experience. So no matter where they interact with you, they're getting some type of value. So just always remember who you're speaking to, and if you don't have the likes, you don't have the comments, you don't have the shares, you don't have the followers, then either your message or your person is wrong. So just kind of determine which. - Yeah, I love that. And so you kind of shared some strategies already of things we can do to prepare for our book launch. So getting arc readers, getting beta readers, collecting like the things they've highlighted, the things they liked, things like that, getting early reviews, getting influenced to share your work. If we're now kind of shifting into book launch mode, what are like your top few things that you're like, you must do this to have a successful book launch? - Yeah, and some of it's like that, it's get an email less going. Reach out to people, get them wrong, find as many arc readers as you can, advance readers, if you find 150, perfect. The more that are reading your book and giving you those reviews, especially in day one, the better. But another thing people don't think about is that it's so focused on, I just have to point this one book, you forget about the rest of the books you have in your toolkit. So you can talk, and even if you have one book, not many authors just write one book and just go, that's it, that's done, that's the end of my journey. They're not gonna put in this work and build a business. So typically we're saying this stuff we're talking in the authors that they wanna create a business. And some are like the author printers, that people are actually striving. And so even if this is your first book, maybe you don't have your back, the book's already been published, but you have other books you're gonna write. You can still talk about those and use what you're doing now as a platform to highlight everything that you've written. And if you don't have that book too written yet, you can still talk about when it's coming, what's happening, you can build some excitement, start to give some teasers, so that you're building some future trust to your audience that they know, they're not gonna pick up a new book in a series, love it, and then have it fall off the author never continues, which is the absolute worst for readers. And that's why a lot of readers actually won't start a series until it's finished because they're scared of that happening. So when you talk about it, you show a consistent. So it's use it as an opportunity to actually promote the entirety of your list. And really like if you wanna break it down into three phases, the first is create that bus. So create that initial excitement, do some countdowns, do some pre-order bonuses, collaborate with other influencers, authors, book bloggers, just create some buzzer on your book from other people that are talking about it. And then you wanna maximize your visibility. So the next focus is how can you really promote and get more people talking about it? How can you really promote that launch period? Like email marketing, social media advertising, any type of media coverage or running promotions or actually getting like doing launch events or having cool, unique twists or things like this. Like then you can create and just build on that further bigger stage. And then there's that post launch. And this is another thing authors like usually forget. The launch of book, they get excited. The first couple of weeks, it's the excitement, they're getting the stats, they're getting whatever like, oh my gosh, it broke top 500 out of like thousands and hundreds of thousands of books. They're like, wow, it hit top 20 or oh my gosh, it's number one, like it's exciting. People are talking about, they're building it. And then after a couple of weeks, what happens after launch is and we all do it, it's we dip. And we hit this little low moment and we get tired and everything seeps in in the exhaustion. And especially when we left the launch up until like the last minute, we're doing everything we possibly can. That's why as much as can't early on, it's great. But the launch is so important 'cause you wanna continue that to build on a momentum. So you still wanna have interviews. You wanna have some promotions that are running. This is a great opportunity where if you create any novellas or bonus scenes or extra chapters or alternate POVs, these are really great points or even character art or world art. These are really great points to have actually share that out to your audience to keep people in the world, to keep that excitement going. So if you love that, check out, here's this extra scene. Here's this, but you have to send to newsletter to get access to it. So you're still driving more people into your main sales based platform for future. You keep the spotlight going. If you see your book in a store, you're posting and sharing it. But if you see someone reading your book, you're getting them to share about it. You can ask your art reviewers or your launch team to keep sharing and posting about the book. You can keep doing like these promotions and getting other authors to talk about it. You wanna keep talking about your book. You wanna keep sharing and exciting things. You wanna keep giving them more opportunities to keep engaging in your world, especially if it's gonna be quite a while before the next book launches. You just want to keep people engaging with you and then just keep getting excited about keep telling them what's happening. Keep telling them the exciting moments where they can buy when they can next buy. - Yeah, I love all that. And I feel like there's so much that writers can learn going to your website and your Instagram and things like that. So I wanna pick your brain, but we would be here for like 10 hours. So I just love all that. And that's actually the phase I'm at with my book right now. I'm in the post launch where I've had to move on to other things, but there are still things that, and I feel like a lot of authors were like this. They have all these ideas of what they're gonna do during their launch and not all of them work out just because we tend to be like overexcited and we plan too much for ourselves. This time post launches when I'm doing those things I didn't get to during launch. So it's kind of like, I like that you're saying start early because I can almost feel there are some listeners that it's like this is so overwhelming. That's why we start early. We don't leave it to the last minute. Keep notes of everything you want to do. Use some of it in the post launch. And I do think for me, if I were to share a lesson of my own launch, it feels easier once you just start doing it. So the hardest part is literally like, start of the email list or putting up a website that you're not super proud of, but it's there. Just start and it's just gonna get easier and you'll get more experienced. And luckily there's a ton of great resources. There's a ton of great people that, you know, writers can work with yourself included, but other places like Bookbub or like PR teams or whatever it is if you're out there need that help. So Lacey, can you let everybody know where we can find you around the internet? - Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, you can find me at the Lacey Leifers. You can find my website, Black Fox Marketing. If you are an author and marketing is overwhelming, sales feels scary, you feel for Walmart, that whatever. Yeah, it's a moment, re-training and live resource and everything else you can join on Facebook. I have a book to business. Facebook group, you can pop in. I do weekly life trainings. I have my own newsletter, of course, so you can sign up, you can go to my website and find access to that. But I'm kind of everywhere, and you will see. - Yeah. - And you guys are going through it, like you don't have to do it alone. There are so many great things you can do, so many steps. I am more than happy to point out and say, here's a great starting point. Here's where you should go on your journey next. So, I'll send any platform, just reach out and ask the question, happy to help. - Yeah, and we'll put all of Lacey's links in the show notes and then also you, have a book launch playbook to share with us. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yes. Yes. So because we know how overwhelming a book launch can be, I created a nice little checklist of each phase, what you're going through, what you can take a look at now. Of course, give yourself some space and grace. If you're taking a look and something feels a little bit too overwhelming to do for this launch, it is perfectly okay. Like Savannah said, to mark it for the next one, but it is a step by step everything you need to think about at each phase. And I even have some time projections of like four months, 12 months out from your launch of when you should be thinking about doing that to make it as easy as possible. So it is kind of like a nice little inclusive list to not forget our miss out. So I have a link that Savannah has for you guys as well that you can click to get access to that. Yeah. We will put that in the show notes and thank you for sharing that with us and all your expertise. Lacey, I really feel like I could talk to you for 10 hours about marketing and maybe we'll have to have you back someday if you would grace us with your presence again. But I so appreciate it and I know that listeners are going to love this. So thank you so much. Yeah, no, thank you. It has been my pleasure to everybody listening. You guys are on such an exciting journey and I'm so excited for you. And when you lock in on what your value add is to your readers, I promise it's like a completely different experience when you're promoting your book. So I'm very excited for you guys and if you need support. So thank you again for having me. Awesome. So that's it for today's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in and for showing your support. If you want to check out any of the links I mentioned in this episode, you can find them in the show notes listed in the description of each episode inside your podcast player or at savannagobo.com/podcast. If you're an Apple user, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few seconds to leave a rating and a review. Your ratings and reviews tell Apple that this is a podcast that's worth listening to and in turn, your reviews will help this podcast get in front of more fiction writers just like you. And while you're there, go ahead and hit that follow button because there's going to be another brand new episode next week full of actionable tips, tools and strategies to help you become a better writer. So I'll see you next week and until then, happy writing.