435: 163 Kids Found in FL, Lindsay Clancy Verdict, Montana Family Annihilator & Girl Hires BF to Kill Mom

insurance isn't one size fits all and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit that's why drivers have enjoyed progressives name your price tool for years with the name your price tool you tell them what you want to pay and they show you options that fit your budget enough hunting for discounts trying to calculate rates and tinkering with coverages maybe you're picking out your very first policy or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family either way they make it simple to see your options no guesswork no surprises ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law hey true crime besties welcome back to an all-new episode of serialously hello hello hello welcome back to an all-new episode of serialously with me your true crime bestie and your host annie elise happy thursday as you know thursdays are headline highlights days where we're going through everything that is happening in true crime this week a deep dive did come out on monday it was all about the philly house of horrors eugene horse which talk about like the ultimate jump scare if you see his face and his dad's face but i know so many of you have been asking for coverage on that people suspect that he may be the united states serial killer in over 50 years so you know doing what we do over here had to like dig through newspaper clippings archival and like get the backstory on not only eugene but also his disgusting ass dad and so i released that deep dive for you on monday go take a listen you probably for all my audio listeners will also want to check out the youtube video version though because you've got to see these photos photos it is like jump scare mania but that was the deep dive monday today it's hella fun and i hope you enjoyed it and i'll see you in the next video highlights as i said lots to go over we have lindsey clancy verdict the deadlocked jury on tuesday so much to discuss we unfortunately somehow have a new family annihilator case out of billings montana you have also been asking that i dig into the 163 kids that were found in florida we're digging into that and i actually tasked that on my expert guest host ultimate frisbee amy colette hello good morning now if you don't understand that reference it's because you need to listen to last week's episode and for the record i don't play frisbee you should and he wants to apparently it's a good exercise thing i actually was going to tell you we haven't talked about this yet i don't know if you saw the comments on youtube from last week's episode a lot of people were surprised that we are actually sisters no i know and so maybe it's a lot of new listeners who aren't understanding but yes i think it is guys we are sisters she's the older one barely and barely three years barely and i remember for a long time people thought we were twins obviously not with our hair right now but how did they not even know we're sisters no they're all you guys sound alike are you sisters and people were like schooling them of course they're sisters but yes we are sisters and biologically sisters not just you know not just best friends yeah so i have tasked you today or not today but like before but you're gonna cover that story because i just like need a mental break for a minute yeah and i know it's wild but yes i gotcha let's get into we also both have our foot up on the table right now and we're both wearing the exact same shoes what's happening so that happened last week and that was before i knew we were filming in the new set and you were gonna see my feet but then i was like these are the perfect shoes because today i actually had open toed shoes and i felt like we don't need a foot finder put your feet away but we should be sponsored by luso luso where's our boy chris noise yeah exactly sponsor us um no it's my brother's best friend's company i told you guys about them before they basically weren't they modeled after oh there you go there's a toast weren't they modeled after the four seasons slipper yes and so they're like this waffle look at me doing a sponsored ad and it's not even sponsored go ahead zoom in no um they're like this waffle material they're slip-on shoes so padded and comfy i have them in like every color and they're the best to fly in because my feet swell up so okay i didn't need to go that far um there was something else oh yeah so back on to the sister comment i told you before we started recording that i have a social media reel i want to film with you yeah i'm not going to tell you what it is ahead of time but we will post it and we will see just how simpatico okay we are okay the pressure's on um okay so let's start we have obviously so much to go over today so let's start and i'm getting ahead of myself i also at the end of this episode i'm going to talk to you about micah miller because if you have watched death of the pastor's wife and i know so many of you have we've got to talk about that i have been knee deep in that case for years now and it's wild but i have a lot of thoughts so anyway let's start though with an update in the lily peters case and i don't remember if we talked about this last week or the week prior but i want to give you an update in this case and it's the case of 10 year old lily peters she was murdered in chippewa falls wisconsin back in 2022 now like i said if you remember this case we recently talked about it because there was another update but and i have a deep dive coming back out in the next couple of weeks where you'll be able to hear the full story start to finish but lily was killed on april 24th 2022 after she was walking home to her house with her 14 year old cousin carson carson and lily were going back to lily's house when he asked her to leave the trail that they were on go explore the woods she followed him he was older than her and she you know it was her cousin and she trusted him lily was on her bike carson was on his hoverboard but then once they were away from that trail and in the wooded area he attacked her he knocked her in the stomach knocked her to the ground struck her in the head ultimately strangled her to death and then allegedly sexually assaulted lily's body after she was dead only 10 years old just sick so he got scared like a little bitch that he is and he was killed in the woods and he was killed in the woods and he was killed and immediately ran away ran home and pretended that he didn't know where she was or what happened he showered he cleaned his clothes and then he eventually returned to the scene and he covered his little cousin's body with leaves lily's father had reported her missing that night after she didn't come home by 9 p.m and then two hours later her bike was found abandoned in the woods the next morning during a volunteer search party they found lily's partially unclothed body so her death was ruled as a homicide via blunt force trauma and strangulation so carson was arrested two days later and then he was charged with first degree intentional homicide and sexual assault authority said that he had confessed and told investigators that the killing and the sexually assaulting lily had been his plan all along this wasn't some spur of the moment crime of opportunity crime of passion it was something that he had been planning now carson was 14 years old at the time okay like born bad diabolical disgusting evil human being however in january of 2024 it was determined that he would be tried as an adult and that he would be tried as an adult which thank god we love that for him right so his trial was scheduled to take place in november of this year however as the update was a couple weeks ago and the whole point i gave you the update is because we learned that the trial may never happen they announced that there was a resolution hearing that was going to be held on august 26th however because the court records were sealed based on his minor status based on the case itself we didn't know what that actually meant i think in that episode i said i bet he's having a you know a lot of trouble and he's going to be held on august 26th he's going to plead guilty either to a lesser charge or to something he doesn't want to be tried as an adult and have like this adult sentence that's most likely what's going to happen and sure enough now that that hearing has happened we know so last wednesday on august 26th he pleaded guilty to first degree intentional homicide as part of his plea agreement but here is what really pisses me off for a multitude of reasons and i actually fly off the handle in my deep dive which like you know how i get when i run on a tangent but i'm not going to lie to you but couldn't hold back in exchange for his guilty plea they actually removed the two sexual assault charges they were dismissed i know and so the charges were quote read in which means that while carson wasn't convicted of those charges he acknowledged that the judge could consider the allegations when determining his sentence but basically getting thrown a huge bone in this situation and the sentence he got while it wasn't light i personally do not believe that it was just he was sentenced to life in prison however he has the possibility of extended supervision after 25 years he was also given credit for the four years roughly that he has already spent in custody which take a listen to this sentencing all right then to the charge of first degree intentional homicide how do you plead guilty how do you plead guilty Well, Well, there's sentencing factors the court takes into consideration. Gravity of defense. I can think of no more serious offense in the world than first-degree and potential homicide. It's a Class A felony. Character of the defendant and the need for her rehabilitation. You were 14 when you committed this. Obviously, there's a need for rehabilitation. The public needs to be protected. This is a first-degree intentional homicide. While you were a minor when you committed it, it is still a very serious offense, and it shook this community. So what I am going to do is I'm going to sentence you to life in prison with the eligibility. For extended supervision after a period of 25 years. So he was also ordered to pay a little over $30,000 in restitution. Now, that whole extended supervision thing kind of sounds like parole, but it's not quite that. It's a little bit different. Basically, when inmates are given a chance at parole, a commission's board decides if they should be let out based on their prison life, right? If they've had good behavior, what their file looks like, and everything that has happened while they've been incarcerated. Also, if they've picked up any new charges, fights in the prison, other things, you know, whatever it may be. However, in an extended release case, Carson will have to file a formal petition with the court and then go before a judge who then will ultimately decide if he can prove that he is no longer a risk to the public. Also, with parole, it's usually for a certain amount of time that the parole board gets to decide, you know, one year, five years, and then if they violate parole, they get re-arrested or they get re-arrested on new charges, it kind of like kicks back into gear. But for Carson, if he is ever granted extended release, he will be under supervision for the rest of his life. And if he breaks even one rule, then he goes straight back to prison and he will carry out the rest of his sentence, which that gives me a little bit of comfort, I guess. The fact that, like, oh, you have to really be a model citizen for the rest of your life or your ass is going back in the slammer. But, I mean, after four years of waiting for this case to finally go to trial, we now know there will not be a trial. And he's pled guilty to killing Lily. He's going to spend, hopefully, the rest of his life in prison. But where I get hung up is, is this justice for Lily's family? Or here's where I get even more hung up. The fact that the sexual assault charges were dismissed because of the plea agreement, does that mean if he's ever on supervised release, he won't be on the registry? That's exactly what I was going to ask you. He won't have any sort of repercussions? It's going to absolve him of doing that? Like, can he work at a school? Right. And from a family's perspective, God forbid if we were in that situation, I would think, oh, so you're acknowledging that he killed her, but you're not acknowledging what he did to her dead body and how he desecrated her memory, her body, her remains. Like, that's just as important in all of this with the sentencing and accountability and justice. And so I get, while plea agreements, you have to, it's like give and take a little bit. This really pissed me the fuck off. I was going to say. I think if the sentence were a little lighter and that happened, it would be extremely frustrating and upsetting, but I don't know the details as well as you did. So if there was a chance that if they didn't do the plea and move forward, that the sentence could be lighter, then I think as a family, I would probably, because that's a family member. So that's kind of wild. I would want them to be away from me as long as possible. And if that meant removing a charge to make sure they're locked up, fine. I don't think that it would be lighter. Because he was being tried as an adult. He already had confessed and admitted his DNA, I believe, was inside of Lily. It was a slam dunk case. He did have a lot of family members initially going to bat for him and trying to like, you know, he's great. He's innocent. Very Aiden Fucci ilk or elk or whatever the fuck you say. I don't know what the decision was here and why they did that. But when you think the math of it all, he's 20 years old now. No, he's 18. He's 18 years old now. Whatever. 18, 19. He'll be, if he gets supervised release, that he'll be 45 years old. Okay? And he can still have a family. He can still have a career. He can still have a life. And while, yes, he has to be on his best behavior because he'll get thrown back in if he, you know, does anything wrong. Still, how is that fair when this 10-year-old girl was brutalized by her own flesh and blood? So why do they offer an option of a plea? Usually for. A lot of reasons. Sometimes it's to save the family members, like, the heartache of going through the trial. Sometimes it's because the resources it's going to take or the state, for some reason, doesn't feel that they can prove their case and get a rock-solid conviction, which, again, I don't think is the case here. And the family wouldn't have had to sign off on it. No. No. That's right. Usually, sometimes they have the family weigh in, but ultimately, I mean, hello, look at what happened in Idaho. I know. Yeah. Not always. So, like I said, that deep dive is coming. But. I just want to warn you guys. Very passionate. I recently recorded it, and I get a little heated. I don't blame you. It's a really hard one. Like, and yeah, I mean, sexual assault on its face is, like, disgusting regardless how it happens, when it happens, and who it happens by. But then the necrophilia aspect of it all, which, like, not to get, like, overly graphic. I understand she wasn't, like, cold and in a morgue, but, like. No. Postmortem. And just, like, your family. It's your cousin. Yes. Like, we're so close with our cousins. They're, like, brothers to us. And you have these urges at 14 years old. Like, I know guys have urges at 14 years old. I'm not, you know, like, naive in that sense. But, like, diabolical. Yeah. Straight to jail. For life. Straight to prison. Yes. Okay. Ugh. Ugh. Shake it off. Okay, well, I'm going to give you a breather. Thank you. This is the one that you guys have been asking a lot about. It broke last week and is shocking, but thankfully in a good way. Yeah. In some regard. So, last week it was announced that over the course. Of five days, law enforcement across Florida, we're back in Florida, found 163 missing children in just one of the largest child recovery operations in all of U.S. history. And it's the biggest one that Florida has ever done. It was called Operation Statewide Shield. And the goal was pretty simple. It was to find missing kids who were missing, endangered, had run away, and get them somewhere safe. And investigators were then taking the investigation. They were taking information from these missing persons cases and figuring out where these kids might be and then sending officers out to then actually find them. And they were finding them all over the place. There were 46 children found in the Tampa Bay area, 41 in Miami, 32 in Jacksonville, 21 in Orlando, 12 in Fort Myers, 8 in Pensacola, and 3 in Tallahassee. So, they were all over the state. And it wasn't just kids who were missing. They were missing somewhere in Florida. Authorities say that some of these children were also found in six other states, one U.S. territory, and even 12 different countries, which is wild to think of how widespread this was. And the kids ranged in age from just two months old to 17 years old. And officials say many of them had experienced some level of neglect, exploitation, or had been exposed to some sort of criminal activity. And you can actually take a listen to that press conference here. How? How are we, you know, how are these kids missing in the first place? It really does run the gamut. You've got some relatives or distant relatives that will kidnap or get into custody battles over kids. You have some foster care situations where, unfortunately, kids are abused. You get some kids that are neglected, that run away, that turn to drugs. You get kids that fall victim to, you know, pimps that push them into prostitution, that run trafficking rings. Really, really awful. All of the above. It's a pretty sad situation. We, you know, we will have a lot of arrests and more information to come. That's probably as specific as I can get at this point. And so once they were found, they were taken to recovery hubs where they could actually get some medical care, help from child welfare workers, social services, and victim advocates. Basically, people who could really figure out what exactly these children needed and help place them with the right professionals to try to get them that specific care. And Florida has actually done that. They've done quite a few big operations like this before. Operation Dragon Eye found 60 missing kids in 2025 and Operation Home for the Holidays found more than 120. But this time, less than a year after those two other operations, they found an additional 163 kids, which to me, I mean, I don't know about you. That sounds like a lot. You just had these two big operations in the same state. And now you're finding when I heard 163, that number to me was like staggering. Well, yes. And especially with where it's connected and like the arrests, which I know you're going to get. But like, yeah, it's wild. It's a lot of kids. I'm getting to that now. Get to it, O'Brien. Get to it. Well, of course, there were arrests in all of this. Thank God. Three initial arrests have been announced as of right now, which three felt like not very many when I first read that. Yeah. The first was Robert Farrell Allison, who was arrested by the Lee County Sheriff's Office on August 20th and charged with the murder of a child. And the second was Robert Farrell Allison, who was arrested by the Lee County Sheriff's lewd and lascivious battery on a victim between 12 and 16. years old then on august 21st the jacksonville sheriff's office arrested michael prescott who was charged with three counts of lewd and lascivious acts with a minor felony battery and aggravated assault he also has a warrant for interference with child custody and then the third person jayden allen harwood was also reportedly charged with interference in a child custody case and resisting officers without violence so that i'm wondering is there some familial yeah there's some weirdness connection there stuff so obviously with only these three arrests so far there's going to be more to come and there are still several open investigations connected to this operation and of course investigators are only scratching the surface at this point with that many children across that many counties and countries and even states i'm sure they're going to find a lot more but aside from the arrest the fact that there were like we said 163 kids found in five days is a huge deal and a huge huge huge huge huge huge huge huge huge huge and huge and huge and huge one thing that's the fact that there were like we said 163 kids found in five days is a huge deal and a huge deal and a huge deal and a huge accomplishment that i don't think is really being talked about enough somewhere even literally babies of course up to teenagers but i think getting to the root of like how these children all went missing and for how long and hopefully other states are learning from this and we're going to have some organizations like this where they're going out and searching as well because clearly there's a need for it yeah which is crazy so thankfully they're all in the hands of people who can help them now and hopefully they're all in the hands of people who can help them now and hopefully they're all in the can help rehabilitate them and get them into some safe environments i have thoughts give them to me i'm gonna lose my mind right now so bear with me because there's two things that really pissed me off this weekend one this case but more so because people who are posting about this case and not credible news organizations some but more of like you know how you'll get in your feed like on either instagram or on tiktok like random news updates where it's like a clip and it looks like breaking news the amount of time i saw this headline but the footage that was being clipped with it were not the children being rescued but the children from um like ariel castro's house and the one woman i her name is leaving me i apologize who had the panda eyes and was up in the attic and all of these things to almost sensationalize it and make it look not saying make it look worse than it is but to have more very heavy graphics along with it to where people thought these were the children being rescued and these were the conditions they were living in i thought it was really distasteful and gross like the story is bad enough you don't need to you know sensationalize it and put all of these images and retraumatize these victims who have now been saved all over again that made me mad the second thing that made me mad is our friend greg at crc child rescue coalition i think i've talked with you guys about them on the podcast if i haven't they are a fantastic organization that we've partnered with they have developed this amazing technology where not only can they track predators as they are exchanging explicit material and sharing material on the web but they can track the ip address they share it with local law enforcement they help aid in the arrest and it's just unbelievable and i cannot speak highly enough about them but greg made a post that and i don't know the exact details but that basically we are now taking a step step backward with in law enforcement to where certain people or certain charges of ai related material is not going to be charged as seriously and because it's not a real victim because it's not a real image and that made me really mad because for tons of reasons it looks like real material first and foremost and it's different if somebody takes somebody's face and photoshops it on but if it's actually just ai generated that's where this argument is coming from or i should say this decision is coming from but here's where i don't like this it then normalizes it because if there's no sort of repercussions for looking at that material creating that material sharing that material then it's going to continue to be circulated people are going to start not becoming necessarily desensitized to it but after you see something enough times you there it becomes a bit normalized in a sense and one who's to say like where's the boundary there because what if they take an image of your child and use ai to enhance it and make modifications but it's still very much i think then they can charge but if it's just like somebody going into ai and creating it with a prompt blonde little girl with pigtails and yeah then it's not quote a real victim but then it's like if you're able to continue to share and create and do all this it's where it's all over the place and potentially sell it yes it's like you're normalizing it you're accepting it you probably are desensitizing a bit to it and it's only a matter of time before you take it a step further yes exactly and so i know we've talked about this ad nauseum for years but it's like law is catching up very slowly with technology and so i know a lot of people are pushing back on this i know there's a lot of stuff happening on the hill of people trying to fight this and do things like that but it is very disheartening and when i saw that i was like we are taking literally 20 steps backwards and if we can't even you know enforce the law on that right now in this moment when ai is used for literally everything where are we going to be when the law catches up in three or five years hopefully and how how much further progressed will ai be at that point you know and it's not only just how normalized it is it's like then it can also get in the hands of people far younger and just i mean there's so many problems with it yes that's really disheartening i know so you guys should definitely check out child rescue coalition if you haven't and like see what they are all about check out their instagram their website again cannot speak highly enough about them i am somebody who spends a lot of time and probably way way way too much money on skin care and also now on hair care now that i'm in my hair health journey but one thing that i never really thought about was the water that was coming out of my shower and i saw the joel lee showerhead on tiktok for years i was like oh this is cool but like it feels a little gimmicky feels like what the hell is water really gonna do then i got those like water strips where you can test your water and i 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coverage that fits your life on your terms progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law here's mario lopez from the alma mario lopez daily podcast all right quick question you ever notice how some cars just steal the spotlight well that's the 2026 toyota rav4 it's got bold standout style intuitive tech inside and now hybrid power standard which means efficiency without the need to plug in so whether you care about looks smarts or just everyday practicality rav4 brings all of it you've been holding out for the right suv this is your sign check out the 2026 toyota rav4 at your local toyota dealer or you can buy it at the visit toyota.com see packages and options at toyota.com for feature availability all right so like i said these family annihilator cases familicide seem to be happening more and more i don't know if like summer 2026 is just the summer of you're supposed to kill your family but like i don't know what is going on so genuine question because i've been horrified by this also do you think that people are seeing this happen and like getting the idea in their head and thinking like then i should do that too because how is it that all of the sudden truly i don't think people are seeing and getting the idea because in most cases the murderer is being held accountable or has taken their own life and so it's not like they're seeing something that they could get away with like an alpine divorce for example but there is certainly an uptick and - I don't know why. - But they are getting away it if they're taking their own life yeah i guess if they're like oh that's the solution to my problem i'd want to talk to a psychologist about it because like part of me wonders during covid we saw a huge uptick in child abuse cases and especially with the special needs community because they were at home and the parents couldn't deal so part of me wonders is there some sort of element of like summer break and it's too much or these families who have multiple children because most of the families where it's happening it's like a family of six or eight or it's like these large families it's not just a husband wife and one child or something like that i don't know all i know is i feel like there's a new one every single week this one is coming from billings montana so many of you have dm'd me about it so we need to talk about it so at 6 0 1 p.m on sunday august 23rd the billings police department in montana got a 911 call that reported hearing shots fired inside a home when the first officers arrived they confronted a man outside who was later identified as 44 year old alan smith however like the little coward ass he is he ran back inside the house as soon as they tried to talk to him officers then heard gunshots and smoke coming from inside the house so alan eventually ran into the backyard where authorities say he then shot himself he was taken to the hospital but he was later pronounced dead now within minutes very similar to the other case we just talked about the house was completely engulfed in flames now because the homes in this neighborhood use wells and not fire hydrants it took firefighters a long time to figure out like the water situation they had to bring water in by truck they couldn't just hook their hose up to a fire hydrant so it took a lot longer obviously and they ended up fighting the fire for hours finally getting it under control around 1 a.m the following morning and then once it was safe enough for the investigators to actually get inside the home they went in wanted to see you know how many victims there were what was really going on here and they discovered that there was a something horrific eight people were dead according to authorities before alan turned the gun on himself he had killed his grandmother his parents his sister and her four children then took his own life the victims were 92 year old evelyn smith alan's grandmother his parents dana and barb smith his 39 year old sister megan jacari and megan's four children 13 year old owen 12 year old joey 15 year old landon and 12 year old charlotte now police have not confirmed yet which family member made that 9-1-1 call because i guess the call did come from inside the house it wasn't a neighbor overhearing it but a neighbor later said that little 12 year old charlotte was the person who called 9-1-1 however i haven't been able to verify that or confirm that but what the neighbor said is that she called 9-1-1 saying that she was trying to save her family which can you even imagine that you're seeing him wipe out your whole family at 12 years old you're calling for help because you're like he's shooting all of my family members he's killing everybody it's so awful and terrible to think literally i it's like making me cry i know so as investigators started going through the scene they found some weapons but they haven't said what type of gun or guns were used they also haven't publicly released a motive yet the sheriff said that investigators do have some idea of what could have prompted the shooting but their main focus was processing the crime scene so as more information then started coming out from family members it was learned that the home actually belonged to alan's parents alan had been living there with them but the police say that he had just moved out a few weeks before the killings now in most of these cases we don't usually know the details about why or how things happened however in this case there are some conflicting stories about why he moved out why he left the home and whether that might have actually been his motive for killing his entire family megan's longtime best friend kelsey megan's longtime best friend kelsey said that alan left on his own sometime around the end of july and that he didn't tell his family where he was going according to her alan didn't have a job and he didn't have any sort of income however the family wasn't particularly worried about him megan's ex-husband however said that alan was a hermit that he spent most of his time on the computer and that he was asked to leave by the family a few weeks prior he said that alan had attended eastern washington university and that he had a bachelor's degree but for whatever reason never seemed to be able to get a job to be able to find a job or hold down a job he also said that there were in fact warning signs saying there were many red flags and many people spoke out but no one listened so now investigators are trying to figure out what those red flags exactly were what really happened in those weeks leading up to the shooting and what ultimately caused alan after moving out to go back into that neighborhood go back into that house and carry out this mass murder of his family because when you look at the timeline it is really hard to believe that alan was a hermit and that he was really difficult to wrap your head around alan had left the family home then he decided to what show back up in the neighborhood weeks later someone inside called 9-1-1 reporting that shots had been fired and then eight people nine including alan ended up dead so as investigators have continued going through what's left of the home they have found some reminders of the life that was there before this horrific tragedy took place there was a family photo album that was found still mostly intact as well which is amazing and a huge miracle there was a family bible that was found almost completely untouched which is just wild to think about but just again goes to show that there was a lot of love a lot of probably faith in this family and a lot of care for one another neighbors have also been bringing investigators water and food as they've continued working their way through the wreckage meanwhile the entire city of billings is trying to process what happened the mayor said that it would be very difficult to find someone in a city of about a hundred and twenty thousand who didn't have some kind of connection to these victims or feel the impact of their deaths he said that there was at first shock then followed by people who were deeply upset and then that shock and upset turned to anger and he said that that's okay because you're going to feel all the different emotions as you go through the grieving process and just not the understanding but the realization of what has happened i mean nobody could have expected that in this small town that something like this would happen and i'm sure for everyone directly connected you know six degrees of separation whatever it may be i'm sure it's a very complicated situation for people to process when it's somebody you either know know by proxy or are friends with and it's just incredibly difficult i mean before you got into the detail i was when you started naming who the victims were i was thinking they're not even his own children like what could possibly motivate you to kill your nieces and nephews like obviously that's what sent me into tears but it's like they're red flags what are they so you know is it he was mad that he got kicked out was there already something weird going on that he's on the computer all the time and not holding a job so yeah we need to know what those red flags are so people can act because you're right it's complicated it's family it's hard to speak out but when there's red flags you have to speak out yeah i think think about his 92 year old grandmother she made it her whole life and she's like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i know only for this to be her ending it's and there's no yeah it's just wild it is so a whole family just and again if you're planning to take your own life anyway why do you have to go to the extent of hurting your whole family who is just innocent bystanders just stop with yourself yes yes like see like it's horrible i know i know well this next one is pretty horrible too and also has to do with family great yeah this next case is out of delaware county ohio oh another ohio case yeah i know florida and ohio honestly yeah so just after midnight on friday august 14th the deputies in delaware county ohio received a 911 call reporting that someone had been shot the caller was a man named neil king and he said that someone had just shot his wife 55 year old tamela dutcher neil had told the dispatcher that he had been watching tv in the basement when he heard a gunshot and that he had ran upstairs to find her and when he was looking for her he heard another shot this time somewhere near the dining room or one of the front rooms then he said he heard the door swing open and saw the back of someone running out of the house you can actually listen to that dispatch call here shooting engine 321 medic 321 and battalion 321 at the dollar road that is the call that went out just after midnight for emergency responders to rush to the dutcher family home you're going to stage for dcso there is a possible suspect on foot in the area armed and dangerous 55 year old female shot near the eye she is still breathing they're trying to put pressure and when first responders arrived his wife was rushed to the hospital but just several hours later she unfortunately died from her injuries investigators then spent the rest of the day inside of the home to find out what had happened and what had happened to her just trying to figure out exactly what had happened and at first it looked like just a random intruder had come into the house and shot her but then detectives started looking at what had happened just hours earlier and they found out that the person who did this was actually much closer to home her 18 year old daughter brianna told investigators that she was cleaning a room in the house with the door shut when she heard the shooting happen she said she didn't see anyone in the house and that she just heard a sound that quote made her ears ring she also She also said that the front and back doors were usually locked, she wasn't sure that that night they were specifically locked and the only person she thought that could have maybe possibly done this was a family friend that her mom owed money to but then her story changed and she said that the door to the room that she was cleaning was actually open but that she would have seen someone if they would have walked by her she also added that she was dating a guy that her parents wouldn't approve of saying that they were quote very racist and if they knew he was black they would have kicked her out of the house and then her story got even more detailed brianna told investigators that just days before the shooting she and her mom had gotten into an argument over cleaning brianna later called her boyfriend 20 year old christian evans to vent about this particular fight and according to investigators christian told her quote if i were you i would have killed her okay what kind of advice what an idiot and like fighting over cleaning like how many times did mom yell at us to like clean our room or make every single day no honestly she still gets mad at me um no if she like yelled us and we call her boyfriend he's all man you should have just killed her why because she asked me to do the dishes like like red flag yeah like what do you mean and also like not for nothing but he's 20 years old like you're old enough to know better it's crazy yeah she also told investigators that christian's roommate 21 year old dejamius pain had previously threatened to kidnap her family and she claimed she was afraid of him which obviously i would be afraid of someone threatening to kidnap my family but what so your boyfriend recommends you killing your mom because she asked you to clean and his roommate has threatened to kidnap your family like why are you still dating this guy and like why is your boyfriend's roommate threatening to kidnap your family right what is happening in del and where are we delaware county ohio what is happening so brianna said that on the night of the shooting christian's roommate threatened to kidnap her family and she threatened to kidnap christian and his roommate had come to the family's home in christian's car but brianna told christian that she wasn't going to leave with them because she had responsibilities with the horses on the property she claimed that the two men then just left and then about 10 to 15 minutes later that's when she heard that gunshot brianna initially denied knowing who was responsible and denied having any involvement at all in her mother's death but investigators say that that story didn't hold up obviously a search of brianna's phone reportedly recovered deleted text messages between her and christian messages that prosecutors say showed that the murder had been planned in advance and that they were talking about it just minutes before her mom was shot in the messages christian allegedly wrote things like take them both out at the same time and this has to be perfect brianna also allegedly gave him information about her where her parents were in the house that her mom was in the living room and that her dad was in the basement and now prosecutors say that christian is the one who brought christian out of the house and that he shot the gun to the home but they haven't publicly said who it was that actually pulled the trigger and neil brianna's father was also allegedly targeted according to prosecutors after her mom was shot neil rushed to then help his wife and another shot was fired in his direction he survived and the bullet reportedly hit a wall instead so by that afternoon investigators had identified christian and de jamieus as suspects and at around 5 25 p.m detectives executed a search and arrested both of them investigators say they had actually driven away from the area after the shooting and eventually went back to their apartment and then there was brianna she was initially arrested on a charge of obstruction of justice after investigators accused her of lying about what she actually knew but then on monday august 24th prosecutors announced that her charges had been upgraded to include murder all three were later indicted on aggravated murder charges and they are each facing a three million dollar bond and there's still one detail about brianna's mother that makes this case especially chilling listen to this it's crazy she was a doctor who years before her daughter was even born co-authored a paper about homicidal adolescence so basically kids who kill and the paper was published in 2002 titled the violent and homicidal adolescence hearts darkened before time oh my god i got the chills right oh my god and that book basically detailed patterns of violence and homicide amongst young people and listen to this one of the observations in that paper is that although most young homicide offenders were boys the girls that killed were usually killing family members of their own i just got really nauseous could you imagine that i just got so sick but it kind of reminded me you know how there's often like social workers or people in that field who then end up taking um care of people that you know have come across in their experience of working and so it's like and then those people sometimes are troubled and end up hurting them so but i mean still kind of wild because this was her actual daughter so now investigators say obviously it's very ironic that she herself is now being killed by her own daughter so all of these so obviously all of these three defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty but i think the writing's the writing's on the wall so we'll i'm sure get more details are you familiar with the jennifer pan case yes it reminds me very much of that we've i know we've covered it on this podcast but i think there was a documentary on i don't know peacock or hulu or something over the last two years where it came out where she basically like enlisted the help or hired her boyfriend but i think it was her boyfriend i think it was her boyfriend okay i don't know the details are a little bit fuzzy but she orchestrated the entire thing and um i think she was like lying about going to college she was lying about her school and like accolades and then her parents like found out or starting to unravel or they like emailed the school or received any other something and then she planned this whole thing and then in the video she's like acting distraught and like she has no idea and it's just like diabolical that such young people which i get it she was brianna's 18 but like still you're a young adult that they're capable of such evil and i can't help but wonder i know that it's been happening since the dawn of time is it because people are being exposed to true crime more mainstream media now at a younger age whether it's through documentaries fiction whatever it may be gone girl all of these things to where there's some sort of like i don't know subconscious influence or normalization or to where they like i don't know sounds like so it will be interesting to hear more about that but i think it's a good question and i think it's a good question and i about it so i did read that um the attorney for i believe it was the boyfriend see the boyfriend of the roommate i think it was the boyfriend is trying to say that he's not competent to stand trial so we'll see what what all of that has to do with it but she seems like she's obvious i mean she's she's 18 she's an adult but she's also young and she's in love with this guy and she's afraid of his roommate but is that bullshit was she just saying that to the officers like or did he really i guess that's true kidnap her because i'm just thinking you're hanging out with the wrong people who are advising you to do this and even putting that thought in your head and you're 18 you can move out granted i mean you probably are there for whatever financial reasons whatever but it's like you legally can date whoever you want live wherever you want so that seems like more of a solution i wonder if she was the driver in this and or he was or if he was like i know she mentioned that her parents wouldn't approve of their relationship because of the difference in race so were they both equal parts in this was she the driver i think it's pretty ironic too that in those text messages he said this has to be perfect when like first of all then don't text about it rule number one but then also like you missed the misfired and didn't hit dad thank god but like for wanting to be so flawless and perfect like you really executed it awfully well you're right maybe she was the person behind it all i mean it's all going to show up in the text messages when the discovery comes out and what she said to him and what yeah was she just did he ever even say i would have just killed her right then and there or was that a lie too to the police to make it so to deflect from her involvement or like her guilt yeah oh i'm interested we've got a foy of this like asap yeah okay um okay we've got to talk about the lindsey clancy case trial updates this week and everything that has been going on so finally after five weeks of testimony i think it was over 80 experts several days of jury deliberations were finally starting to wrap up all things lindsey clancy however earlier this week there was a wrench thrown in so jury deliberations first began last week i think some people were hopeful that they would reach a verdict by the end of the week but then they were sent home obviously for the weekend because they're not sequestered resumed on monday they asked the judge to go home early on monday which a lot of people were like why are they asking to go home reddington said it was because they were just exhausted they obviously is very emotional everything that they're having to weigh and review and do all these things but then some people were like well is it because they're at an impasse and they just want to go home for the day like what's going on then sure enough on tuesday morning the jurors came back and said that they were unable to reach a unanimous verdict and here's where it got a little complicated when i first heard this immediately first i wasn't really even surprised i i have thought that she would be found not guilty by reason of insanity and I've thought that from the beginning. However, once they have charge conference. And once the jury was read the instructions of all of the verdicts they could find, I started to think, oh, there is a very real possibility that there could be a hung jury here because there's five different options that they can choose from. Straight not guilty, which is at first everybody's like, that's very unlikely, but still possible. Not guilty by reason of insanity, guilty of first degree murder, guilty of second degree murder. And then the judge also brought in guilty of manslaughter, a lesser charge. And they have to find a verdict for all three of the children. So to reach a unanimous verdict, when you have five different options and three different charges, and there might actually be a caveat there. So it could be a different charge for each. It's like 15 options basically, right, in total. So it's like to have everybody unanimously agree on that when there was a lack of investigation, where Reddington harped on that in his closing, when, obviously, there was a lack of investigation, where Reddington shouldn't be watching social media. But I'd be hard pressed to think that they have not seen anything online. But I think that it opens the door to a hung jury. However, very similarly to Karen Reid's first trial, they came back saying we can't reach a unanimous verdict. And the judge sent them back multiple times. And she's like, you have to. And then it ended up resulting in a mistrial. How do you feel about that? Well, OK, here's what I think. I think if the judge forces you to go back and continue deliberating, you're going to have to go back and continue first. I'd be like, OK, is there one holdout, two, or is it truly split? But then if they did come back then with a unanimous verdict as a defense attorney, if it wasn't in my favor, not that it would give you more grounds for an appeal, but I'd want to survey the jurors. I'd want to maybe use that as an argument. They couldn't figure it out. You forced them to make a decision. So I think it gets a little murky there. But when we heard this on Tuesday, my first thought was like, oh, this is going to be a Karen Reid situation again. And we don't know how many holdouts there are right now. So I wasn't sure, like, will they come back quickly with a unanimous verdict because they just want to get the hell out of there so one person will cave? Or is it truly split? Like, who really knows? But then my thought was, if it's a hung jury and it ends in a mistrial, will the state retry her? Because technically, they don't have to. More than likely, if there's three homicides, they would retry her. However, they don't have to. So based on what the prosecution, has been seeing in all of this, not saying that TikTok is going to influence their decision one way or another, but they would have to make the decision, are we going to retry her? Do we think we can win? Based on now the spotlight on the lack of investigation, lack of evidence, if Reddington now changes strategy, because you can't even consider the first trial anymore. So he could technically change his whole strategy to either bring in a third party alternative suspect, but he doesn't have to. Or just harp on, she's not criminally responsible, there was no investigation, these injuries don't align, this and that. Because now they would be seeing everything that's out there. And again, not saying they're going to hinge their decision on TikTok or anything like that, but with a mistrial, it opens the doors to, maybe there's not going to be another trial, maybe they will retry her, but then what are the new arguments going to be and what are the strengths and the weaknesses that the other sides can exploit and leverage and all of those things? If there is a mistrial in these types of situations, then she would just go free? Yes. Which is arguably, even if somebody wanted that for her, it's like, what kind of quality of life for this poor woman who like, she probably needs a lot of care. Yes. It's interesting you say poor woman, because I have been of the thought that she was suffering from postpartum psychosis since day one. I have seen now, it's so weird watching the evolution of all of this. Back in 2023, when it first happened, everybody's like premeditated, she's an evil monster. She's like, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. You know, throw the book at her, death penalty. Then as we started getting closer to trial, people started opening their minds up to postpartum psychosis, saying Lindsay's a victim and more allyship with her in that regard. Then the trial happened. And then as we know, everybody said, oh, Lindsay didn't even do this. It was all Patrick. Now, as jury deliberations started, and even a few days before that, I am seeing such a huge uptick, almost full circle of it back to, oh, Lindsay didn't even do this. It was all Patrick. This is premeditated. She's evil. She needs to be found guilty of first degree murder. And it's so weird watching everything come full circle. And so. I mean, guilty or not, I just mean this poor woman, like she's lost her three children. She's going to be in hell for the rest of her life. Exactly. No matter what. Because it's her fault. Right. Regardless of how it happened. And she's like. She's paralyzed. Paralyzed. Her life is destroyed. Absolutely. So that all happened Tuesday. And then ultimately, just like the Karen Reid trial, the judge. The judge sent them back and said, you need to keep deliberating. This has been a five-week trial. We have gone through so much. Like, we're not going to just throw in the towel, go back, keep deliberating. Then on Tuesday night, there was a little bit of commotion at the courthouse. A woman ended up being arrested for witness intimidation, potential jury tampering. She was reportedly videotaping some of the jurors. And so she ended up being arrested. She was in court on Wednesday. And her next court date is in October. But that resulted in first thing on Wednesday morning. The judge asked each juror individually under voir dire, basically, like, do they know what happened with this woman or were they affected? Not an open-ended question, but a yes or a no. Seemingly, they all answered no. So they were sent back in for deliberations. Then around 11.15 a.m. on Wednesday, the jury, it was announced that the jury had a question. So the judge came back in the courtroom. Everybody came in the courtroom. But it wasn't a question. It was a statement. And it was that they are. Still deadlocked. So this is now the second time that they were deadlocked. And what's interesting is at this point, a lot of people may think, OK, it's a mistrial. However, with the state of Massachusetts, there is something called a Tui Rodriguez rule that you read in. And the judge basically issued that to the jurors where he tells them, you have to go back. You have to continue deliberating. However, under this specific rule and instruction, I want you to really consider. Your point of view in all of this, your position in what you believe the verdict should be. Listen to your fellow jurors as well. Like, you know, reexamine their your position. Listen carefully to the reasoning of the other jurors. Consider whether your doubt or your conclusion is reasonable when other equally honest jurors are obviously disagreeing since there is disagreement in that room and continue pushing and trying to reach a unanimous verdict. So he sent them back to continue deliberating. We don't know what the split is. If there's one person holding out, two people holding out or what's going on in that room. However, we know there are nine women jurors and three male jurors. So you also, like I said earlier, you have five options for each charge. It leaves a lot of room for there to be different and varying opinions. And there's maybe a woman who either sympathizes with Lindsay or hates Lindsay because she's a mother herself and can't wrap her head around it. There could be a man who doesn't believe in anything postpartum psychosis related. I mean, you don't know at all what's going through their minds. And we also don't know the split at this moment of how many are disagreeing and how close they are to a verdict. But at this point, at the time of this recording, we don't know. I will obviously keep you updated. Most likely, since we won't have another episode till Monday, it'll be via Instagram. That's where I've been doing a lot of my updates at underscore Annie Elise or True Crime with Annie. I have two accounts. So check in there and maybe some news is already happening right now on Thursday. So I'm over there probably rapid fire uploading. But curious to know your thoughts. Is this going to end with a hung jury and a mistrial? And then will there be another trial in the future? I think probably yes, since three children were killed and it's a homicide. But at the same time, I don't know what is going through the state's mind. The whole thing is just wild. So I mean, this was one case that I feel like people are going to be like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I People who are not even into true crime. Oh, it's polarizing. We're very invested at gate, sorry, invested. And every single time I've gone anywhere in the last couple of weeks, I feel like it's the first thing people ask me about. 100%. I was literally at my kids, like beginning school play date that they had. And the amount of people who came up to me like, I need to know your thoughts on Clancy. And men and women. I know. It's, I know. It's been an interesting one. Now, another interesting one that I know I briefly mentioned at the top of this episode that has gotten so much attention. Is Micah Miller's case. I don't know how familiar you are. Did you watch Death of the Pastor's Wife? I'm very familiar with the case, but I haven't watched it, but I'm going to. Okay. I did a deep dive this week. It's out right now. You can go listen to it. What I did not like is that Netflix did a great job covering it. They left out so much of what went on during the relationship between Micah and JP. I'm talking multiple 911 calls, text messages, history, more in-depth conversation about how he, in my opinion, groomed her. From a young age and when their relationship first began. And so I did a deep dive Tuesday exposing all of that because, you know, I always do my follow-ups and say, well, here's what Netflix missed. So that's on my second true crime podcast feed, 10 to life. I would say that one for YouTube, we did have to censor quite a bit because of the nature of the content and the underage elements of everything and all of that. So if you want the uncensored version, listen audio on the podcast or if you want the uncensored version, or if you are a video watcher through and through and you want the uncensored version, go to Patreon because we always. upload the Uncensored videos on Patreon and completely ad-free as well. But that case is wild, so exposed all of that this week. So you have homework right now. Your homework, if you're listening, is to go listen to the Philadelphia House of Horrors serial killer Eugene Horsch from Monday, the Micah Miller What They Left Out from Netflix on Tuesday, and then watch The Death of the Pastor's Wife, if you haven't yet, and your homework, O'Brien. And I want you to look at me in the eyes, okay? Here is your homework. You're going to watch that on Netflix. You're going to go to the park. You're going to get that Frisbee, and you are going to throw it as far as you fucking can. I got it. I'll do it. I got it. I got this. I'll do it. That's like Emmy. I got this. I got this. I know. And she's doing so well. I know. We have to talk after this. I can't wait. Her first day at big kid school. And with her rolly suitcase. I just like, ugh. The picture is just, ugh. She looks like an eighth grader compared to her classmates because she's so like tall and big. Little gal. I know. All right. That is it for today's episode of Headline Highlights, guys. Thank you so much for listening. Be back with you next week. Be back with you Monday, actually, with an all-new deep dive into a case. But go back, listen to those deep dives, watch those deep dives now from earlier this week, and we will talk with you very soon. Until the next one, just get a divorce, be nice, don't kill people. I'm going to add a third tagline in. Don't kill your family. Don't listen to your boyfriend's terrible advice. Yeah, that too. And just stay safe. Stay safe. All right. Bye. Bye. The group chat's going crazy. The reservation is set, and I still need to figure out my ride. Well, what is a ride going to cost me? That ride might be more expensive than everyone's first round. Oh, wait. Let me check Lyft, too, real quick before I book. That's less than I thought. I guess those savings can go towards buying everyone dinner tonight. 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