#16 - Trust The Process.. Consistency.. What does those even mean? - HEATED CONVO...

All right, what's up everybody? We are back on the breakdown. This is episode number 16 the big one six we're getting our drivers license today and This episode is all about the term Trust the process It's been thrown around quite a bit In this cheerleading industry and realistically I feel like it means so many different things And it's also A good thing and also a cop-out sometimes so I want to talk about the good the bad and I guess the progressive like what what in our what do we think it means? And is it good like trusting the process which yeah realistically is just a phrase that people use when They want to help parents understand why their kid was placed on a team in a tumbling class why they're working on the things that they are And for kids it's kind of the same thing just you know Total different vocabulary so for sure, but yeah trust the process short form What does that mean to you Roman? Follow the steps what steps the steps placed in front of you who plays those steps your coaches The staff Depends on what it is though, but but what process? Well, it depends because the coach might Not have the same process for different kids. Are we talking about the team? Are we talking about individual the term To me it just means make sure you're following the The standard and the progress that every coach sets in front of them coaches have goals and there's a purpose for those goals and You have to Follow nine with that and believe it in order for it to be successful thing if somebody buts the system It doesn't or bucks the system. It doesn't work. So the process is An individual based thing it could be anything To me it just means Here's my standard here's here's what we need to do and This is our end goal and these are the steps we're gonna take if you don't give us a chance to take those steps You're not gonna get to where we want to go I gotta adjust my mic hold on one second. All right. That's better All right Caleb That's Roman short form. What's your short form? I can make it longer um We're aware yeah, we do all right if you could explain what the term or phrase Trust the process is what is it to Caleb the Caleb Johnson world champ. Okay, so like All right World champ one one the pie eating contest once Was it like the pie eating contest of the world it was woodward so that count yeah that counts Um to me personally. Yeah, like what is it uh when if have you ever used that phrase? Yes, and what did you mean by it To me it is Similar to what Roman said That the process that your coaches go through to ensure that like That you're successful at either Tumbling or if it's a team Um, whatever it may be I feel like every coach goes through a process and sits down whether that's one coach or Co-coaches and says hey, what do we need to do to make sure that our team is successful or if it's a tumble coach What do I need to do to make sure this class run smoothly and is efficient and We ask or tell the athletes trust the process Because we know the plan and they may not fully understand it yet, but there is one in place And we're asking hey I want you to trust me that I know what I'm doing that I care about you enough That I want to see you succeed And I have a plan for it, but I'm not going to explain it all to you right now So trust the process and we'll get there. That's kind of how I think of it just I think that's a great way to put it but I just thought about it just now when you were saying it and yeah literally I've never opened up a box of five thousand Legos and say no, I got this without looking at the book The book is the process. It's the guide boom analogies hello, we do it all Legos I can coach and teach English. I can't Russian. I got you Okay, I want to learn Russian Yep one word what I feel like that is inappropriate. It meant no cut that nut Bleep it out. Nope. It means no. How do you say it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah I feel like I'm making animal noises say I'm Russian language. Say Suka Suka uh-huh What did I just say? You'll find out when a Russian watches They were listening to this podcast. Oh fantastic. Now I have to ask Google Roman said it to you. So you're all right So back on track no already trust trust the process. Yes The process legos back on track. I do feel like that's a good analogy though. Okay. The process being the instruction manual Yeah, sure the action being building Legos Yeah, I like that. Mm-hmm. Okay, please hold We'll be back in one moment And we're back. Sorry short telephone break I want to throw a wrench in it Rinse and what the telephone the phrase that's going to break the phone anything trust the process All right while I agree with everything that both of you said I think the problem is no I agree with everything you said I just think it's termed the wrong way Because we use it as an industry then we use it in our gyms and then we use it as a coach Which all of those things always change your coaching style the industry changes the gym standards change So what is the process? Where is it written who can follow it and when the parent is told that what are they Like they just need to trust your word that's very different than trust the process Like trust my word Like believe in what I'm saying Matches more to what you guys were saying then trust the process because Right now there is no process. Yes, there is a general procedure for how someone can get better but Not every gym follows the same strength and conditioning regimens Not every gym teaches tumbling the same way not every gym teach stunting or jumps the same way Not every gym even focuses on dance. I would say a lot of them don't they just hope that kids are good at it And tiktok so realistically what is the process and where is it written how does a parent learn What the process is so that they can believe in it more and I think that's where My question about the whole trust the process thing comes from I think we work in a wonderful establishment. I think we have a lot of wonderful coaches, but we all coach differently But we all have a process and the process says the process is different when you get switched to a different class two months later And there's a different coach in there. I guess yes, we have cheerful standards But what's the process of achieving those standards? That's the problem And it's not not with us like we have a lot of Awesome coaches all over the place that you know talk through these things and we communicate a lot but When I think of it as cheerleading like the sport of cheerleading The there isn't a process no one has this written out You can go into gymnastics and there are books on books on books on everything that you need to do From point A to point Z to try and become an elite gymnast And yes, a lot of kids play toe way before that point But at least there is a there's framework For kids to start building up and do so where is that framework for cheerleading? They're they're technically isn't the process does change every single time But it also changes from coach to coach like Ice cream coach coach that just wants to make kids feel good Only cares if those kids come back and they feel hyped up every single day The broccoli coach or the the person giving you the vegetable coach is the one that's worried about their strength They're conditioning the long term not the short term gratification You have you have gym owners that are only worried about paying their bills for a small facility Trying to survive and you have gym owners that are trying to build a brand But why is that a process that a parent has to care about why does a parent have to care about how much Money a gym owner's making on whether or not their business is working The amount of money a gym's making brings in the quality of coaches Okay, but what I'm saying is you hear this from gyms that don't have an ice cream and a broccoli coach So where the term the term gets bigger than yourself or bigger than where you sit or where you sit Caleb and Like think about it. It gets it's it's on banners when you go to competitions It's being fed to parents and there's no process It's a slogan. It's a political slogan. Yeah, I don't want to say that it's not just a political slogan, because if it was, it's something that they use when kids are being placed on teams, which I agree with. I remember, I agreed with everything you said. For sure. This isn't me combating what you say. What I'm saying is I just think the phrase is wrong. So how do we change the phrase? I have plenty of suggestions, but it doesn't change the topic of conversation here, which is much bigger than us. I think sometimes the phrase, trust the process gets tossed around simply for the fact when people don't know what else to say to a parent that's unhappy or a kid that's unhappy. Remember earlier when I said, I think it's the good, the bad, and the progressive. That's the bad. That is the bad. But what is the process? What are they referring to? I feel like it's on a part of it. I think it's one of those things that you have to be a part of it to, like, understand it completely, but then also, I don't think it's so much that I don't think it's so much the term, trust the process as it is, the concept stands for of like the process is what you make it and like, or our process, we have evaluations and you have levels one through seven or one through six. That's our process. Yeah, it's on. I'm talking about it's not from one class to another. You said evaluations. There's a lot of gyms that don't even do evaluations. Right, but they have different classes or if they don't then the process like there is a fundamental process of tumbling. It hasn't changed much in decades. That's a beginning where you start and then there's things that happen after that to get you higher and higher and higher and higher where you want to go. So it's the process of building yourself up to where you want to be. I do think our process for cheerleading is somewhat written out where somewhere? Where? Then we have score sheets. Yeah, let's use the score sheet system or the scoring system guidelines. To me, the process is following the steps. I think the big problem is is a lot of people think they could go from step A and jump to step X. They're forgetting that step B comes there step C and sometimes you have to go back to step B and a lot of people. I don't even want to say parents. I'll say coaches do the same thing with athletes. They jump around and all coaches that are a part of the process you just talked about. Right. So I mean, there's still what's the process? No, but I guess nobody knows. It is it is an illusion of mirage as some might say, but I know that for me, the process is strict regimen and following the standard of building blocks. That's my process. What's yours? I don't have I don't I don't use the term trust the process. What do you use? I just work individually day by day with each kid and I say, okay, what are our goals? Let's talk about how we want to get there. So that there's a process. There are process. That is a process. But that is a small process and I don't say trust the process when I talk to the parent or the child about it. I explain what our goals are and how we're going to get there. Yes, overall, that's a process. But I do that with kids that want to get better at jumps. Kids that want to get better at tumbling. But that's me. You don't teach the same way. So what's the process that we're referring to? Big picture. And this is bigger than tumbling. It's not like I said, big picture because it's not a big picture term. It's not. It is. So you're telling me as a parent, it's not a big picture term. But I need to believe in that and spend $8,000 to $12,000 a year traveling. First of all, you don't have kids. But I'm just kidding. But no, $8,000 to $12,000 traveling on this mini two team because my kid wasn't ready for you three. Now I also don't think you should put that much focus into a term. But I'm again, don't cop out of the conversation. This is one of the issues that we have with cheerleading. Like we say things, but there's no backbone to them. Okay, one's the last time you said trust the process. Life in general. One's the last time you said trust the process. Like I don't even remember it's been forever. What about you? I don't think I've ever said it. I can honestly say I've said trust the process before, but the process meant something in my terms. Like this is this is the pathway. This is the goal. And this is how we're going to get there. That's my process. But if we're talking industry wide, the process is an illusion because it's always going to change. It's always going to reform based off of what's happening in the industry and what's happening in a gym on a team in a class. It's always going to change. But for myself, I guess if I say trust the process to anybody, the goal is I'm not training your kid to be a level one or a level two. The process is we are training you to get to level six or seven someday and be involved in that sport. So with taking skills out of it, taking everything out of it, I guess the process for me is building an athlete that's going to be that's going to survive and stand the test of time, I guess, in our sport, where so many plateau get injured, exit out. And rather than just saying, you know, you're a level one, I'm training you to be a level one. So it can mean anything, I guess to anybody. Again, I agree with everything that you guys have said the way that you explained it, the way that you explained it. What I'm saying is in the sport of cheerleading, what are we referring to when we say trust the process because which process are we supposed to trust? The gyms, the coaches, the industries? The coaches are a part of the gym and I think it all starts there. You also have a lot of parents that think they know more than a coach does. In a certain environment, I'm not saying everywhere, but it happens in every sport where like what are they called the armchair quarterbacks or whatever that they they know their way, they know that getting their kid on a trampoline is going to get their kid to the next best skill where we've seen more of a hindrance because kids I haven't I have. I've seen a hindrance in technique, but not in the ability to like do things. Like if I see a kid do a back handspring on trampoline, it's a bad back handspring. I don't judge them. Oh yeah, let's like let's work with that. You're already past the fear point. Like that's the hardest part to teach. That's not a bad thing. I'm talking about. But that's what a hindrance is. But a hindrance is if you build a habit long enough, you're not fixing it. It's it's extreme. No, you can fix it. It's called self-discipline and someone helping you. Okay, but how many reps like and this is maybe it's wrong. There's no rep count. There is a rep count. No, there's not. There is. When I ride my bike, if I make a mistake on a jump or if I have a bad habit from before and now I'm learning on a new jump, if I'm dialed in, it could take me five reps to make the change that I need to, but I have to be willing to make the change. But when it comes to tumbling muscle memory, it takes a lot more to overcome bad reps and bad, bad habits. A lot more what? A lot more reps. A lot more positive reps, a lot more conditioning, a lot more strength training, a lot more education, a lot more control and supervision to fix those things. I agree. I do. I mean, I know you. I just said it. I have. I agree. I just there's a kid on stage and I've seen somebody make a change one time and it stayed that way forever. Exactly, but that's, but that's and I've seen it on multiple multiple multiple. So that's what I'm saying is it depends on the person to do it from that point forward. There's no like if a kid knows how to do a backhand spring on the trampoline and then they can do it on the tumble track and maybe they have a bad habit when they get to the floor, but they can do it right on the tumble track. They clearly know what they need to do. They just aren't applying the same concepts or even firing the right muscles or the brain to muscle connection, whatever like they're just not comfortable doing that on the floor, which is what I said. It depends on your ability to make a change where you are where you need to. Yeah, I think there's a legit science behind it too. It does. There is like that's I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. It does. You just said there was a rep count. There is a rep count conditioning and rep counts. And if you've done it for longer, it's going to be harder to change it because it is because muscle memory is hard to overcome after a while. It's not, but it, but it is. It's no, that's, that's just generalized to my computer. So I could look it up. But okay, if it's just the term, I guess on the old ways or the way that it was presenting to me in a gym was how many reps does it take? How many how many positive reps does it take for something to become muscle memory? Or how many reps does it take? for something to become muscle memory. And Mrs. Beecher always, always stated that the reps you're taking, you're building muscle memory. And if you build enough positive muscle memory, you're going to get good reps in. If you're building more negative reps and negative muscle memory, it's going to take a lot more to overcome those. And yes, you're a lot more reps, a lot more positive reps. If I take 20 bad reps consistently, it's going to take me 40 to overcome those. And that's just a hypothetical number, but it's muscle memory takes time. Like there's a reason that wrestlers drill certain skills like over and over and over and over again so they could be reactive and fast. There's a, I believe that's the same thing. That's called training. Right. But positive training, if I train, let's use wrestling because that's something so simple for me to just dive into. If I train a single leg to take someone down incorrectly over and over and over again and I've trained my body to do it hundreds of times incorrectly, it's going to take a lot more time to fix that habit and it's, it's true for anything. See, I just don't believe that for the sole fact that if you have a kid that realizes that they do it wrong and they accept that they do it wrong and then their main goal is to correct to that. Like my brain goes to, okay, that's what they're focused on. Does that mean we need to relearn the whole skill? Potentially. But if they're willing to do that, I don't think muscle memory gets in the way of that. I just seen it from the past them like the kids. Let me use it. I don't want to use people's names. Remember this all comes from we agree with you on most of this, but I just don't think that there's a certain rep count. Like if I have 10 kids in front of me, all of them have bad technique and back handsprings. I guarantee two of them are going to get it faster than the others eight. I'm not disagreeing with that. Well, you just said there's a rep count. Yeah. There's, there's a, let me rephrase if they've all done the same amount of reps of bad back handsprings, you said it's going to take more to correct that. But I guarantee 10 kids in front of me, all following the same path, whatever Roman's path is that he's taking down that road with them. I bet they all don't get it on that certain rep. No, they're not all going to get it on the same rep. I'm talking about that's that's the only thing that I'm saying though. I'm I'm simply saying that if you're taking more bad repetitions, you're building negative reinforcements on muscle memory. And it's going to take more positive ones to overcome that a lot more. You can't a lot more than the bad ones that you did. Yeah. So if I've done a hundred back back back handsprings, you're saying it's going to take at least 101 to get a good one. I'm not saying that's the exact number of muscle memory muscle memory is muscle memory. If you take 20 bad reps and you start. So then now I got to do 21 even like there's no way I could get a good rep at 10. If I'm really good at listening and applying the correction, it takes time. I think there's a difference between does he not hear what I'm saying it correctly long term consistently and then just being able to do it correct one time out of an hour class. I understand that. But Caleb, you went into the gym and tumbled all all the time. Yeah. It wasn't an hour class. You probably developed some bad habits. But then you're like, hey, I got to fix this. Yeah. Did it take you? Did you overcore reps? Then what you had at bad reps? No, I just had to try to fix it. Okay. That's my point. But then remember it. But then for it to become natural and second nature, I had to do that every single time over and over and over again. And the more times I did that, then the times I didn't is when it became second nature long term. And that's what I'm saying. Like it takes consistent repetitions after the bad ones to get to. We didn't I didn't disagree with you on that. I said, there's no rep count. Okay. How many reps does it roughly? How many repetitions of something or how many times there's a human? I just read it and I'm looking it up because I want to know. And it says experts say that it takes between three to 5,000 repetitions of something for it to become consistent muscle memory. Three to 5,000, 3,000 to 5,000. Some have said it takes about a thousand repetitions of something consistently the same for it to become muscle memory. Okay. And instinctive. So just tell me. Do you think Caroline Dazed done three to 5,000 double whip doubles? She's pretty consistent with those. I think she's probably trained a lot of the skills individually to do them. That's not a double whip double. Yeah, but if I'm doing a double whip punch rebound. You think she's done three to 5,000 of them? I don't know. Let's find out. Just break it down. I'm just kidding. In the middle, 4,000. How many how much time would it take to do 4,000 reps? No idea. Say you did 10 a day and you're only in the gym three days a week, 30 a week. How many is that in a year? I don't do math. 30 times 52, Roman. That's a big number. 155 500 something. Okay. 556. Okay. So you're telling me then it's going to take us two and a half years of double whip doubles to be confident and consistent with it. Depends on the athlete. What I'm saying. But you're you're negating or you're combating exactly what you had just set out loud. Like you you're approving my point of it doesn't like the rep count is not consistent among anybody because some people have more discipline than others. I guess. And they they try to figure those things out. Do you really think that does anybody ever really get consistent at something or is it just it's we can go down this wormhole or is it just how comfortable this wormhole and confident they get it doing it which makes it successful every time. I from into three thousand to five thousand. I said what I'm trying to say is I don't believe that. I don't believe it for a second. Because both of you have passed people from level three and to level four that have a runoff handspring tuck that haven't even done over a hundred. And you're right that in that's fine. Okay. Well, that's not consistent. So you shouldn't pass them. Well, if we did that we'd all get fired. We'd all get fired because we'd never pass anybody. But the reality is for an athlete to be consistent to train might as Simone Biles still walking into the gym warm up handstands. Do you think that Simone Biles has done 4,000 triple doubles? No, probably not, but she's pretty consistent with that. I bet you she's probably trained a lot of components to those skills consistently that she could connect. That's not that's not what you just said. You said they need to have three to 5,000 reps. It's a be consistent. So that means you would need three. I'm not going back on this. I'm simply saying this. You take shitty reps. You're building bad muscle memory. Okay, you take bad reps. Bad muscle memory takes good reps over and over again to overcome. If you consistently take bad reps, you're building muscle memory, whether you've taken 10 reps or 30. Like if your head is out consistently in a back walk over over and over and over again. And I get you to get your head between your arms once or twice. The second I put you out there to work and do that skill, your head's going to come out. Show me one athlete that can consistently perform the skills the correct way after taking more bad repetitions once they get put into a situation where they have to. I'm sure there's plenty. I don't think there is. And you're allowed to think that way. This whole conversation started because I said, I don't think there's a rep count. And you said, no, there is experts have said it. Experts do say that there is a rep count for muscle memory. Then on the internet, doctors, okay, sports psychologists. So nobody's going out of level one, because we can't do three to five thousand reps in enough time and an hour of tumbling class once a week. I think kids take a lot more than that to be a successful athlete. I think the problem with our sport, not to go off topic, but one hour tumbling class once a week. That's the problem with our sport. And then I hate hearing how well gymnasts can do the gymnast spend 26 hours a week. Some of them, even the lowest of the lowest gymnast spend up to 13 hours a week training in gymnastics, unless they're a toddler program where they spend one hour or three hours a week in a program. So that that comes back. It take away the rep counts. Forget the rep counts. But that was your argument. That's where this started. So I don't want you to try to then re-evaluate and reprove your story. I'm not re-evaluating and reproving anything. To me, rep counts matter. You have good rep counts. You have bad rep counts. If an athlete consistently takes bad rep counts over and over again and then takes a few good ones and they're like, oh my god, it clicked. Their muscle memory is going to kick back in under stressful situations to the bad rep counts. That's what's gonna happen. It happens all the time, even with some of the best publics. What we're saying is that it doesn't happen all the time. There are kids that make changes. Those are prodigies. Like, no, they're not. Those are kids that are. There's no prodigies that we are aware of in level one or level two right now. They could be in the making, but. - They could be making. - What I said earlier is two of those kids are gonna make the changes that you need before the other eight. - That's my opinion. - That's my opinion. - Perspective. - But that's, I know. Everybody pause right now. Nope, I'm talking. - Oh, listen. - When you're coaching, literally like any level you never know what kid is gonna be like the next big star. And it's like even in level one or level two, like you literally don't know who you're coaching. Do you think that Simone Biles coaches new. - Somebody has to know. - She was six years old that she would be doing what she's doing now. - Somebody knew. - She knew she was talented. - Right, talented. Are we saying that they're gonna be a superstar because I know for a fact that's what I'm saying. It's like a mystery. - Listen. - It's a fun, no need to look at it. - I've literally. - I'm thinking it that way, I'm thinking it. - You can. But I've literally heard coaches wink, wink, say that kid is strong, that kid is gonna be good, that kid is gonna be this. Like we all can see a kid who has athletic, who understands and processes. We can all see that and we can also see the kids that don't. And are there gonna be glimmers of hope, a shining star that shoots across the sky once in a while and proves us wrong? Yes, but we're also very good at being able to see an athlete and say, you know what, they're gonna get to this point and hopefully they can get a little bit past it, but we can definitely see athletes and say, this athlete is gifted and has the ability to reach potential here. And we could also see an athlete that go, that kid is gonna be a hard worker, but because of athletic ability, thought process, whatever it may be, they're only gonna get to here. Sorry, you guys can't see it because we're not videotaping, but my hand was really high and then somewhere in the middle. It's just reality. But that proves, that proves our conversation that you were just combating, that there are kids that are gonna be able to push through things and they're gonna have bad reps, but then they're gonna correct them and get better. But that, because there's athletes that are strong enough and there's athletes that could do these things, you said-- - That doesn't prove the time. - You literally said-- - Athletes - 3,000 to 5,000 reps. - I am standing behind what I said. An athlete that takes more bad repetitions consistently is gonna struggle more than the athlete that doesn't. - You have to say that earlier. - I literally said that if they do 10 reps or 20 reps or 100 reps, that they need to do more than that to do better. - Yeah, positive ones. - Positive reps, overcome the negative ones. That's how you rebuild muscle memory. - I feel like we're saying the same thing and doing-- - We are all saying the same thing and just-- - I'm not saying that. - Yes, you will. - I don't agree with that. - He agrees with us. - He agrees with us. - Anyways, back to me. - Do you agree that I just put it in the terms of-- - I disagree with-- - 25 reps. If a kid does 25 bad reps in a back end spring on their trampoline and their back yard, they now need to do 26. - You're putting that number on it though. - No, I'm not. I'm giving a random number. You said that they need more than they had bad. So we could say 100 bad or 27 or 32 reps that were bad. Now they need 28, 33 or 101. - Yeah, so if you do five bad ones-- - You need six. - You have to do six until it's corrected. - I'm gonna research this. But if we're saying that you have to do more positively, you create a long term thing than yes. If we're talking about in general, like, hey, you did three bad bad handsbrings, the fourth one could be perfect. - Exactly. - However-- - Exactly. - It was a state perfect long term until you keep doing that fourth one for the fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, eighth. - And that's what I am saying. Okay, so what I'm saying is if you do 20 bad reps-- - Okay. - Okay. - Well, this is a random number. - Okay, 20 bad reps, got it. 20 bad reps. - 20 bad reps. - Arms bent on my face. - They do another one that's still a bad rep, but it's better. And then they get closer and closer and closer. They're still all bad reps. So now we're at 40 reps of bad reps because they aren't perfect technique yet. - They did better. - Then they do one that is beautiful. Everything that Coach Caleb has ever wanted in his life in a bad can spring. Okay? - Yeah. - Now they can do another one and then do another one. You're telling me I have to get to 40 to be confident in that change that I just made? - Here, I do think-- - You can be confident after one, you can be confident after one of the consistent. - I do think I do think sometimes. - No, actually more than you would think, I'm pretty smart. - I would agree. - I think that yes, the number of reps matters. Yes, the whole clicking thing. Like saying, oh, once it clicks and you figured out, I do believe that that is a real thing. It's kind of like this unspoken thing, kind of like the trust to process, which the whole episode is about boom, came full circle. All right. - Anyways, so-- - It's a square. - I think I do really think that once it clicks, that it is easier to repeat that because your brain, this light bulb goes off of like, oh, I know what that feels like now. Okay, I can copy that again. Oh, I know what that feels like now. Okay, I can copy that again and again and again. And if they do that, that's called consistency. But apparently, you're not allowed to call it consistency until you get to the 101st rep if you did 100 bad ones. - Okay. - Well, if you're a doctor. - Let me-- - I guess that's a better way of putting what I had said earlier. Like, that makes way more sense when you say when it clicks. So when it clicks, and you do make that change, are you gonna look back at your notebook that you wrote down all your bad reps and then be like, oh, I gotta do 700 more roundoffs to even call this consistent. - I ain't got time for that. I'm on to the next video. - No, cool. (laughing) - I'm like, forget roundoffs, I can do to us. Listen, if that's the case. - I'm gonna do a layout in my backyard. - As a coach. - If that's the, yeah, well, that's a whole nother topic. Get an air track from China, here we go. But if that's the case, then if it only takes one good rep to click, then as a coach, who coaches teams. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going down this hole. This is for you. - Before you get down this hole, think about what you just said. If it takes one good rep for it to click, no. When it clicks, when, not one good rep to click. - If it clicks, after one good rep, why as a coach do you want that kid to do multiple good reps before you put it in the routine? - Multiple is great. - So that they're about 400 is not great. - Nobody said 400 at a time. - Okay, I'm sorry, 3,000 to 5,000. - Exactly, get 'em right. Get those reps in. Is that number? - That also means. - That's a lot. - That you're not allowed. Even if a kid does it perfect the first time ever, you're not allowed to use that skill in a routine till they do it three to 5,000 times. - That's not what I'm saying. - Oh, 'cause I don't want to sit there. - I don't want to sit there. - That's what the doctor said about muscle memory. - Maybe 30 to 50. I don't want, well, no. - But my question is. - Maybe more than that. I don't want to sit in the gym and watch 3,000 backhand springs. - I don't have time for that. - Nobody does, but the whole logic behind it is the fact that if you're doing repetitions as a coach, you coach a team. You want to see more good reps out of an athlete than bad ones. - Yeah. - Why? - Building good habits. - Building good habits, which relates to muscle memory. Why does everybody take the athlete from the front who has legs apart a couple of times, but once in a while gets them together, why do we put her in the back of the routine or hide her on the side? You don't want to get this conversation started with me. - Why not? - Say you're on a competition schedule of eight competitions in a year. - It doesn't matter. - Okay, you've gotten to comment seven times. - That's seven bad reps. - Seven times, okay. - You should have done eight of them to overcome that. - Let's talk your team. - Let's. - Your youth level one team. - Yep. - You get to comment bent legs and back walkovers. - Yep. - You taking all those back walkovers out for the last competition? - No, we've got to hit numbers. - Oh, well then there's your answer. - No, no, no, that wasn't the discussion. - Wait, because her-- - That wasn't the other consistency. - That's not what I said. I said, why do we take that kid who does three bad ones and then does one good one? Why do we move her to the outside or move her to the outside? to the back, you're hiding that athlete. But if it only takes that one good click, when it clicks, why not just trust her to be there? Because her friend next to her that doesn't do this. Temple process. That's not what he said. And that section can do it four times perfectly instead of one because of muscle memory that was probably built there after good reps. What Romans or what Caleb said was when it clicks, it's easier to replicate. Yes, I remember that. You said that they need to have more reps than they've had bad ones. More good ones. Okay. And bad ones. Okay. Which means that once you've worked on something and it clicked, then you need to put in the good reps. If you continue throwing bad reps and then every 10, one good one clicks, I got a question for you. And then I put you under stress, you're going to produce the bad ones more often than the good ones. I have a good. I have a question for you. Sure. So your center back walkover, we'll call it color Suzy. Suzy. Sure. And then you got Sadie over there on the outside. Yep. And they're both on your youth level one team. Sadie throws her head back. Not our Sadie. Just on your youth level one. No. What I'm going to say is Sadie off to the right of the formation right now. She's third row. Got decent back walkover, but they're not good reps because her legs are bent and her heads out. Well, Caleb does a private with her who says something completely different than Coach Roman did in a click to her. Sure. Well, now she's done three weeks in a row. We are in February. Okay. Three weeks in a row. She's got straight legs head in at practice. We're in a private and your girl that's in the at practice. Okay. And your girl up front her head's been coming out the last three practices. Mm hmm. You're going to switch them. If if the one person is giving me more bad reps than the person that's giving me good ones. Yes, because good reps, I'm going to trust the good reps more. So if you've produced more good reps, I didn't get everything leading up to that takes good repetitions. Susie up front had good back walkovers all the way up until the last three weeks. And then Sadie over in the back right. That's not what you said. I said we're in February. You said if the person in the middle has bent legs. No, I didn't. I said her head starting to come out. Well, she's throwing bad reps and she's building negative muscle memory. But she's been tumbling for three years. Well, she's been tumbling for three years and has had straight legs for two of them and her head's in for two of them. And you've known her and you've coached her for both both years. But now Sadie, the last three practices, she's been clicking. I'm switching home. Exactly. But we didn't get to that rep count of doing as many as we had for the last two years. You keep saying the rep count. I didn't say I said that's what the expert said for muscle, but I will say that it takes more good reps than bad ones to build positive muscle memory. Pause. No. Pause. No. Listen. Nope. I think that we're going into. Yes, because yes, it does take a certain amount to create muscle memory. That is a real thing. That's true. I agree. But it does not take a certain amount of times of doing something to perform it correctly. Yes. Once, perform it to different conversations and to a very important differentiation, which I agree with it. You can perform something correctly after one turn. But for a consistent factor, you have to consistently do it correctly over and over and over again. Because once again, if I take you into a stressful situation such as a routine, you are going to crumble and you're going to give me more of what you did on the bad reps than on the good ones. That's an assumption. That's not an assumption that's a fact we've seen it happen. We've literally seen it happen. We've seen it happen with athletes who give us a bad rep at practice, a bad rep at practice. All of a sudden they do a good rep. They do another good rep, but they've done another bad rep and all of a sudden they do a good one. And the coach gets excited. Oh my God. That's great. And we throw them in the routine under a stressful situation. They get to a competition and that athletes on their butt. It's happened. I've watched it. You've watched it. He's watched it again. Not saying it hasn't what I'm saying is the kids been doing back walkovers for two years. That's a lot of reps and they've been great because she's been tumbling for three. Those reps were good. And that's why she's in the front center. But right now she's not doing that great. But Sadie over on the side is by your theory, not the people online. That was the three thousand of five thousand. Your theory of we need to have more good reps than we do bad reps to be consistent. Sadie will never have a shot at being in the front center because she's been doing back walkovers just as long as this one. Even though for the last three weeks, when something clicked, she's worked her tail off and they look great. Who's been more consistent for the last three weeks? Sadie. Okay. More good consistent reps, but she's had two years of bad reps, but she's doing the ones consistently right now. So take the number out of it. The reality is the person that's doing the more consistent over and over and over again in stressful situation is the person that's going to be there. Why would I put an athlete if an athlete is giving me a bad rep? I don't care if they've been tumbling for five years or not. You're giving me bad reps over and over again on a consistent factor. You're not giving me good ones. I don't trust you as an athlete. That's what this comes back to. And yes, you do need more positive reps to build a muscle memory that stays with you in the correct way. More than you've had bad ones is what you said. Yeah. And I still agree with that. I still believe that. So again, please stop being combative for two seconds and listen to what I'm saying, listen to what I'm saying. Sadie's killing it. Great. Good job. Sadie. Your girl that's been tumbling for three years and has had great back walkovers for two of them. That's why she's in the front. Front center back walkover. She's struggling right now. Maybe something's going on outside of the gym last three weeks of practice. Sadie's killing it. It doesn't affect the routine flow. Are you putting Sadie in front because Susie's struggling because by his theory Sadie doesn't have two years of good reps because she just figured it out three weeks ago. Sadie has given me consistent repetitions over and over and over again. Then yes, I would switch it and we're right back into him jumping in to stick up for this when I wasn't done. Listen, Sadie is giving you better reps right now for the last three weeks than Susie is. Okay. But Susie's been giving you better reps for the last two years. By his theory, Sadie doesn't have nor will she ever be able to keep up with Susie because Susie's been doing it right for two years and she figured it out three weeks ago. Does that make sense Caleb? Yeah. So if anything, I'm going to do it just to teach middle girl that you can't be lazy and you're tumbling and slack off because I agree with that completely. But new three week girls going to be in the middle because she's got every single one the last three weeks without missing a beat middle girl who's been doing it like that for two years. I'm like, no, we're not playing that game. You can be back left or chicken nugget in the back. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but again, I agree with that. But my, but my around his concept or his theory around you need more good reps than you've had bad. Yeah. It doesn't match with that situation, which could be a real life situation. Right. You have to take better repetitions. If somebody is on a consistent no one disagrees with you on that, but okay, but I just don't need to see if they've done 400 reps bad ones already. I don't need to see 401 to trust that athlete. I don't need to see that either. I am. That is what you said. We were having a conversation about like, this is what I hate about this. You guys literally like you, you take it and that is what you said, you need better repetitions. Nobody's going to put an athlete anywhere on the floor. If they take more negative reps versus good ones, if Susie and Sadie are standing right there and Sadie is giving me good reps and so on. So it's giving me bad ones. Guess who's not going to be in there? That's reality. And just because she's done two years of good ones, now she's built a habit that habit comes back. Whatever. Maybe she's not going to be in there. That's reality. But yes, you need positive repetitions over and over again to build a consistent muscle memory. So don't know. I'm not that expert on that. That I was reading an article to you. But Roman, you read the article about 3,000 and 5,000. We're talking about what you said. I believe not the article. Roman still believe that you need more positive reps than negative ones to have positive muscle memory. Otherwise, under stressful situations, that athlete has more of a chance to crumble than the one that doesn't that that's had the positive reps over and over again. So if Sadie's had 3 good weeks, that is amazing. Put her in a stressful situation. Hopefully she does really well. But if the other athlete Suzy, whoever Bob, I don't care, is it has been killing it for year after year and then it has a bad week, another bad week. And they don't fix it. Of course, we're going to switch them as coaches. We're not going to leave somebody who's going to jeopardize our team in the middle of a routine. We'll switch that out. But if they're still producing good reps here, they're blah, blah, blah and they're consistent on them. Trust the kid who's done more positive reps over the kid who's done more negative ones. That's going to happen. I've seen kids throw, like, I watched it in class weeks ago, months ago, kids throw these beautiful reps once in a while, but then throw four bad ones and then they end up in a routine. And I say, that's going to happen and it happens. The negative usually plays out in stressful situations. So the athlete needs more positive repetitions, more positive muscle reinforcement to be consistent especially under duress and routines are stressful. So that's what I'm saying. And I'm going to stick by that. Do I think a kid can overcome something and achieve it? Yes. Do I think Sadie can click and be good and be better than somebody who's been doing it for three years? Yes. Because kids stop trying, kids stop focusing. But that would take two years by your theory. It could. It could take less than that by your theory. But it wouldn't. But it wouldn't. But it wouldn't. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. But you say you're sticking to what you're saying. And that would mean that she can't be better. I'm not saying she can't be better. That's the amount of reps that happened over the two years that Susie did. But what I'm saying is, I hear you, Roman. I understand. But your theory is they need more good reps than they have bad reps to be consistent. And I said, I don't agree with you because if Susie's doing back walkovers with straight legs in her head and for three weeks, at this point, and we've had two practices a week, and she's been a tumbling class, I'm trusting her. She something clicked, like Caleb said, and she's making the change. Yes. Sure. That is consistency to me. Like consistency over like the time of I can watch her do a back walkover and then a cartwheel back walkover and she makes the same correction. That is a stressful situation because it's a connected skill. And she's doing it in a back or in a class when I'm not standing right next to her and I see her over at a different drill. That is not stressful, but somewhat because you don't have someone watching you in a kid's eyes because you know, tumbling can be scary. We know that. So maybe they're smaller situations that are less stressful that help you build up to be ready for a competition, but it won't take the same amount of time or the same amount of reps as bad reps because if that were the case, there are so many kids. And the first skill that comes to mind is a tuck around up back hands, bring tuck or even around a standing tuck, we'll keep it simple, simple, simple tuck, right? Kids, what are they struggling with? Had arms up, chest back, you know, like just the direction of jumping off of a kid's done a hundred over the course of three weeks or two weeks. And then it clicks. And then they start landing. I don't need to see a hundred to think that they're going to land on their feet. I would say that they're consistently landed on their feet. And I would start to see the potential in, are they going to change the way that they're taking off because something clicked that made them successful in the skill, then something else has to click for that to be consistent with better technique. And then something else has to click for them to be able to do it on the snap of a finger without thinking about it, but I don't think it takes a certain amount of time. And I don't think it would take that athlete as much time as they spent on bad reps. I don't think it takes a certain amount of time and nobody should. Skills don't come just because you've been doing them forever. Like whatever. Like it could take a year for one kid to get it versus a month for another. But for every bad rep, what do we do as coaches for every bad rep that athletes take? What do we do as coaches to help them figure it out? We drill, we give them other tools to put in positive muscle memory and reinforcement for those athletes to build that up. So that's what you do. A lot of coaches do it. But there's also a lot of coaches that don't. There's a lot of coaches that just want them to keep throwing it and try harder and then they'll spot them and like there's in their success in that too. I'm sure there is. I would love to see more of that. I would love to see that process where an athlete throws skill after skill, negatively, negatively, negatively. And I saw this post today and it literally said it, a back tuck is a skill. It is not just a flip, a flip just goes upside down, lands on its feet. Like to me, if you're training proper arm movements, proper jumping, all of those are positive reinforcements and muscle memory for the athlete to put in a rep count for that skill. So if they're taking bad reps, but we're combating it by working on breaking down the components of that skill, they're still building positive reinforcement with good reps. That's not, but that's still another, it's a rabbit hole. I know. That's not what we were talking about. I am going to, I am still, you, an athlete can have something click, but to be consistent, there has to be any athlete, any athlete take to take cheerleading out of it. Okay. Any athlete, something you can click, but to be consistent, you have to put in positive reps, more positive reps than the negative ones. How many single legs have you ever thrown? Single like what? Wasn't that the reference used earlier? They're on a single leg and wrestling. Take downs. Thousands. Okay. How many of them were great? Lots. How many of them were bad? When I started, I know that I threw a lot more positive ones than negative ones. And when you finally threw a good one and then another good one and then another good one, you finally got the 10 good ones. Did you think that you were pretty good at it? No. You made a change? Made a change. But was it consistent? Made a change to make it better. Made you good. Made it better, but not consistent. Okay. So it's still a bad rep? Good reps. No. Is it still a bad rep? Which one? The one that was better, but not consistent. If it was a bad rep, it was still a bad rep. I asked a question. Is it still in your classification a bad rep? If it was better than one of your worst reps, but it wasn't that bad. It was progress. Okay. But that's still, is it a bad rep or a good rep? There's different components to it. To me, it's still a bad rep, but there was progress made in a positive direction. And you've thrown a lot of bad ones. Yeah. Okay. And then how many good ones? I mean, I didn't keep track. Technique-wise. Technique. Best technique ever, because that's what you're saying for cheerleaders. For just single legs. Yep. As I got older, thousands. Okay. We trained every day. So you've thrown thousands and thousands of bad reps. I don't think I've thrown thousands and thousands of bad reps once I've trained and learned the proper way to do it over and over again, that's why we go slow. That's why we build up. That's why. And then we go to full speed. That's how it all works. We build up and once the positives and the right ones are going and the muscle memory kicks in and everything is there, then yes, I threw more good ones than I did bad ones as my career went on. So you threw thousands and thousands of bad reps and then you threw thousands and thousands of good ones after that? I don't think I threw thousands of bad reps. I threw bad reps in early in my career as a wrestler, but as time went on, the positive reps outweighed the negative ones. Okay. Like thousands of good ones and hundreds of bad ones. I think so. Yeah. Okay. But as a kid, so parents, this is the process that we're asking you to trust, but as a kid, you don't sit there. I guess. Let's take you to. I just sat here and I looked at this and it let's take you to both of you. So Roman, when we were out mountain biking what months ago, you were here. We were on a podcast and we talked about a log, right? Yeah, bro. And he had five or six bad reps on the log and then a couple of times we passed it because he was just tired. And so he was just like, all right, like those would be bad reps. Yeah. Then he does it once and he says, no, I could do it. I can do it. I'm confident. I can do it. And he was saying that to you, right? Yeah. As if he could go do it again. Yeah. Yeah. But he doesn't have multiple more than 10 good reps. I can do it, but I cannot do it consistently, which means I still don't have more good reps over the bad ones. This is such a rabbit hole because when it comes to this subject and that jump, once you do it, once you can do it forever, that's not true though, but it's not a troubling, something clicks. It clicks going over. but when I look at that log, if we're gonna go back to mountain biking, just because I went over it one time, I can say I know I could do it again. That doesn't mean I could do it consistently again, over and over again, because I've literally failed on it a lot more times than I've succeeded. And yes, the mental thought of it, yes, I can do that. Physical side, muscle memory wise, no, I probably cannot do it consistently, over and over again. When it comes to that in this scenario, I heavily disagree. Exactly. I don't, I don't, because. But that's my point is there is when something clicks. Yeah, something happens. I don't know what it is. It's the thing that pisses me off more than anything in this world. I don't know. Like where even we'll talk about biking, even when I go to do a jump and I go up to it six or seven times and I'm like, gosh, this thing's intimidating and I'm coming at it perfectly, I just can't do it. I case it once, worse case ever, you know? And then after that, I'm like, oh, I'm good. And then I could do it every single time, time consistently. If we're talking about just it clicks, yes, it can click. But the corrections that would make it a bad to good clicking is what makes it a good rep. And so that, and then if I do it, if we put it that way in time, but I've jumped that jump, five times now, but I ran up to it 20. It doesn't make it a bad, like it doesn't mean that I'm not consistent. I want to know what that that click is though, like the scientific term for it because like, there's a couple tumbling skills that I had that I would not have if it wouldn't have clicked. One of them being a standing tuck. The second one wasn't really actually the second one kind of standing full, but not really like a tuck for sure. Tell me one cost that even knows the technique of a steady pull. I mean, I don't, I mean, there's nowhere anywhere anywhere, gymnastics or cheerleading in any form of tumbling that tells you exactly how it's supposed to look. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I get what you're talking about. But so there's there's no to get it, to get it in a flip, where it's not a barrel roll from my feet flip to my feet, standing full as vertical as possible. I had to work at it and drill it for that one. And there wasn't really a click. It kind of like I just practiced a couple things a certain way so I could feel it and then I could copy it. But like my standing tuck for sure something clicked because one day I like, I did something when I jumped and I don't know what it was. I was like, oh crap, I just went really high and leaning on my feet. And then from then on, I figured it out and like that actually clicked. But and then like bounding for me. But consistent, the word consistent, what is an adjective? It describes something. Yeah, I guess so. So but once you got the tuck and it clicked, it wasn't like, hey, I got to do a hundred or more bad reps to make this consistent. No, you did like five in a row and you're like, oh, this feels pretty consistent. I think consistency, the way that we're talking about it is more of a mindset than a scientific numbers game. That's my final opinion, which is why Sadie can move. Which is why Sadie can move to the front and Susie's going back until she fixes this because we can't have her cross-center anymore. Yeah, bye Susie. If we're talking about consistency, actually we're not. If we're talking about it clicking and you thinking you could do it and then doing it, yes, that's consistency. But for muscle memory purposes, you still need more positive reps than negative ones. Yeah, I do. I do. How many bad reps are standing tucks did you do? I don't know. I bet you by the end of it, he did a lot more positive ones than negative ones. I don't know and and but that's not. I'm not even sure if you can imagine it's just like if we're talking about from the time you start to when you end and you can't measure consistency until your career is done, because the number of reps is never ending until you retire. Sure. So then that's a whole different thing. I guess so. Cool. So they trust the process. There is no process guys. We made it up. We'll call it clikstency when it clicks. Clikstency. Did I've been talking about getting this side note, side combo. I've been talking about getting flop sickle stickers made. It's like looks like a melted ice cream, but it has a flip flop on it, but it'll be kind of like busted and broken up looking. I can hand it out to the kids that that crash and like flop around, but it would be a positive thing because this is me personally as a coach. I like it when athletes can fall and crash and get up and be like, Oh, I'm okay. And like, this is something that I can like learn from and makes me better. And they use it as something that makes them better and it doesn't phase them. And I think that that's a positive thing because the more that you fall and see that you're okay, the less fear that you have to throw things. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, you flopped. Here's a sticker. There's a whole rough upstairs about, you know, it's called sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't want to get a flop sickle sticker, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes you have to do more reps because you did a little too many flopsicles. Yeah. We can get, do it more stickers made. There you go. It'll be a Nike logo, but upside down. Just stop doing it. Yeah. I think of end of the day, but really the trust the process thing, I feel like it represents more of an idea than a specific thing that means the same thing universally to everybody. My thought around it originally was there are millions, billions of dollars spent on this. Yeah. Which is insane. This is politics. But for the, for the realness of the conversation, right, for the realness of the conversation and the podcasts, for parents, I don't think it's really anything. If Jim's involved in it really doesn't, it's a thing that we use. But if you don't understand it, it's not something that's going to keep you or your athlete from being successful when you're leading. If Jim's have a skill chart listed out based off of level and a stunt chart based off of level and a jump chart based off of level and like how you can proceed through those levels. Yeah. Then that's a process. Right. Trust this because this skill is going to help you with the next skill, you know, like there's, there's preceding elements that will help with the ultimate result that you want to achieve. If you follow these steps, you know, for coaches, I think that you can have your own individual process to help an athlete obtain those things, you know, and there's different ways to get there. Obviously. The sport of cheerleading, there is no process written that I have seen that requires the same things. Yeah. Right. Like just think about like a gym that you were in before you went to cheer athletics and then what the standards were when you went to cheer athletics and how they were different, well, those two different processes, you know what I mean. So what process, trust what process? Yeah. Trust the process that you need more good reps than bad ones to be successful. Thank you. I mean, when I honestly, when I think of the term and use it, usually the thing that comes close is to mind is a skills chart and the evaluation that we do and that knowing that if you do these skills correctly, you're going to the next level. If you do those skills correctly, you're going to the next level and you can progress and there's those things laid out within each gym. Accessible to parents. It goes away to get from point A to point B, the handbook, right? You take a tumble class once a week. You're going to have better tumbling than a kid that takes no classes a week. And I think it's also that process that that skills chart is not just a thing that popped up out of nowhere. People spent hours on it, sitting down, discussing it, what goes on it, what doesn't go on it. What do they need? What's best for them? What's best for the kids? What's best for progress and efficiency and what's best for everybody involved? And I think that adds, I think that's where like the substance comes in of like trusting it because there's valuable time spent on it to ensure that it works and there's like thought and consideration put into those things that the parents see. And so I guess, I don't know, apparently it's just complicated, I guess, to really put a name on it or to define it. Every gym has a process. We all know that most of the gyms, it might not be the same one, but everybody has it. So depending on the parent, somebody says, trust this process. This is our process. This is why you're at our gym. This is why you're in our classes because you've seen our process work for others. Yeah. And that's what it is. as an industry, no, it's not written out there and there's a reason. It's money because if it was one process, somebody would be getting cut out of the money. And that's why it's not a consistent process across the board. And the day it becomes, there's going to be lots of people that gain money and there's going to be lots of people that lose the money. And that's how it always works. That's why there's independent event producers. That's why there's conglomerates or whatever you want to call them, umbrella produce like IEPs, whatever they're called. That's why there's so many out there. And there is no process to that. They don't want that process. That's why they don't want to connect on a score sheet because it's easier to divide people and say come to our competition because this fits you. This fits you. And if it was one process, then you lose the bargaining chip of what brings teams to your events or what brings teams to your camps or this or that. But as far as gyms, I think most gyms have a process written out for their athletes. And Caleb said it. It starts on a skill chart. And then on teams, it starts with level one through six. You know how many gyms don't have skill charts? No, I don't. A lot probably. I would say over 80%. Wow. There are gyms that just have gym owners and coaches that show up after work. Realistically, yeah. And they don't put any time into anything else or building themselves or building a program or when I think of of tumbling though. And this probably isn't true because I haven't thought about it a lot. It seems like with tumbling, it's been around for so long that it seems like generally the steps of these are starting off skills. These are skills after you've been doing it a while. These are skills after you've been doing it a little bit longer. And these are skills after you've been doing it forever. And like the most simple terms, I can put it that would be like levels one through six. And in the handful of gyms that I've been to throughout the years, there's some form of that in the gym, whether it's written down or not, typically a level one class or a beginner class or an intro or a 101 class or whatever, generally across the country is going to have a lot of the same similar skills in it. And then same thing for like the mid level or like the middle. That's assuming that they have level one class. Right. Right. Because gyms, you know, they'll combine everything together. But I guess, I mean, that's kind of what I've noticed is there's some form of of a foundation, whether it's written down or not within just humbling specifically. But that's the problem. I see carried it around. That's a problem written down or not. A parent who's uneducated. Yeah. This is spending money. Right. And then asking them to trust that. Yeah. There's nothing. What process am I trusting? Exactly. Both it's not written out. And a gym can't explain it to the parent that that's on that gyms problem. And that parent should go to a gym. They can explain what they're doing and what's happening. I think that's that's the bigger thing. As people blindly buy into things that aren't being productive to their athlete. And that's just what it is. It goes it goes back to private lessons too. Critical thinking. It goes back to all of that private lessons classes. Why why does a parent spend money on a gymnastics facility that puts their child into a tumbling class for cheer, which has zero structure. It's just to teach them about camp spring or a tuck. When the gymnast have a laid out plan. And if a parent chooses to do that. There's a process. Which part of it? The laid out plan for the gymnast. Yeah. Cheerleading again. It comes down to create that process comes down to the individual gym. And it I don't think you don't have that in gymnastics. Because gymnastics is all in the same page. I don't know how they did it. But they did it. Isn't isn't everything the same no matter what meet you go to. There's different. There's different. It's the same and the all the skills for the levels the same. And like literally hasn't really been changed over decades. It's existed. Because they've had one governing body. But we've got like 17 score sheets and 3,500 competitions. And again, this was the whole purpose for the conversation. Trust what process? There's not one we're cheerleading because we hear it all the time. When it comes to outside of the gym. Don't know when it comes to the gym. Trust ours. That's it. When it comes to your own gym. Trust that one. I think it's one of those things. I mean, I guess there really isn't in the in the term. As it stands by itself, trust the process. There's not one. With context, it depends on what you're talking about. And then like, I think it's one of those terms that. It means well. But somebody didn't think farther into that idea to know that it doesn't really make sense. It's a catchphrase. It's something to catch someone's attention. Right. And so I think it means well, but like it doesn't really, it does more harm than good because people don't understand it. I'm going to trust the process and go to bed. Nice. Yep. I don't know. At the end of the day, we have a process. Individually, we even have a process. Our gym has a process. Our classes have a process. All stated earlier. Right. Outside of that, people at the top have a process. They just don't want to share it with everybody. That's it. The process within this sport is divided amongst many people who all can't sit down and get together and figure it out. That's it. At least that's my thought. Sorry. Seems like that's that's what you're getting to with this. I don't think so. I just think that no one's thought about it. Yeah. I just think that no one's actually taking the time to sit down, put it on paper and start to play it out. And I also do think there's lots of people that just don't like the phrase. So it's like it's out there and now it's getting bigger and bigger, but people started using it less and less because they don't like it, but it's still around. So it's like let's talk about it. Well, try to talk about it. Let's just forget about it. You really think that nobody sat down and said, this is what we need to do for this sport before? No, I think there's plenty of people that have sat down and talked about it. They just never put it on paper. I beg to differ. I'm sure somebody's put it on paper. I don't know, but I'm sure it's been put on paper somewhere because that's how this industry is built. Somebody had to put something on paper. That's how this was built. So it's got to be someone could be an assumption. Nobody just said, "Hey, we're going to start this sport, but have zero rules to it, zero this, zero that." The biggest part in the process of this sport, when it comes to a parent, you have a lot of different processes that you could trust. That's the problem. Right. That's why it's different. You know what's great, but that's the thing. You just said it. But in gymnastics, in gymnastics, the way that it was done, it was all one thing. Gymnastics was gymnastics. Most people didn't even know what cheerleading was as a sport until 2005. People today still don't know whether cheerleading is a sport because of sideline, cheers, chance, jumps, band. It's so muddied that nobody knows. It's not just, "Hey, this is what it is." Hence, there's no process. Well, yeah. So if you're at the top of this sport, then please sit down and figure it out because you're confusing a lot of people. And it's annoying. I'm going to get fired tomorrow from everywhere. I've heard a better phrase. Other than trust the process, it was something else. What was the phrase you were thinking of? Did you have a different phrase? I like the positive inclusion or ones. I like something like Find Your Stride. Okay. Okay. What does that mean though? It's kind of like find what works for you and go for it. But my mom says that I work as a level five, but I'm in level one. Yeah, but that's not your stride because that's your mom telling you what to do. You said that's not my stride, but you told me to find my stride. If I find my stride as level five, instead of a level one, then try out for a level five team. Yeah, but you said that that's what your mom told you. So that's your mom stride. Go for it Roman. Try out for a level five team. I mean, I would make a level five team back in the day. Maybe non-tumble, non-stunt division, mascot division. Yeah, that's called sidelining game day. Is that a sport right now? Yeah, well, do you see nationals as a thing? So I mean, it is cool to watch, especially what is that? The speed spirit rallies with the band. All right. Oh, yeah, the game day live. Yeah, that's fun. All right. Well, thanks for listening. You are rant that went on a whole nother situation, but came back full circle. And she tried more positive podcasts rather than negative. So it's like I don't think it's negative. I think you just got to be okay with someone not agreeing with your opinion. I'm okay with people that both sides of that were accurate and work. So none of it was negative. It's just pick which side of the road you want to go to. Yeah, so three sides. I don't know. We're a triangle. No, we're trying. Who's the big wheel? I'm All right, we'll see you guys later. Bye