Speaker 1Welcome to the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast with psychologist Dr. Doreen Downing. Listen in as Doreen interviews people who felt they didn't have a voice or who suffered extreme speaking anxiety. You'll hear stories about how they struggled to speak up, what they did to find their authentic voice, and the confidence they now feel to speak up and make an impact. If you want to get started right away to find your voice, download Doreen's free 7-Step Guide to Fearless Speaking at Doreen7steps.com. And now, here is Doreen.
Speaker 2Hi, this is Dr. Doreen Downing, and I'm host of the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast. And what I get to do here is interview people who feel at some point, maybe several points in their life, that they didn't have a voice. And the challenge was to find this voice that was different. And I think that's what I'm going to do. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to
Speaker 3find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to
Speaker 2find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to
Speaker 3find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to
Speaker 2find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to
Speaker 3find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to find your voice. And I'm going to show you how to find your voice. And I'm going to You know, trying to control everything and force fit and be further ahead. And that those have been some of the biggest life lessons for me, for sure.
Speaker 2Oh, my. Yes, I can hear that. I can hear that your your drive to succeed is one thing. And I also felt like I I stayed in school all the way to a Ph.D. and even beyond so that it was nice and safe there that I knew I knew the ropes. I just had to do it right and get the applause from the teachers, I guess, or the A's is like the big A is applause. Right. And so I loved what you just did about putting it next to being an entrepreneur, because from the very beginning, I was never going to work for anybody. I wasn't even going to do an internship where I had to as a psychologist. And I made up my own internship. I found somebody I wanted to work with. And I said, you know, I'll make it all happen. I can help you. That's a whole nother story. But this idea that you've just said, entrepreneurship is a whole. I mean, we can't come in and grab it like and get from day one to day. I don't know, even 10, 20, 30 years down the line and because it's all unfolding or something. Right. It's a whole nother story. But this idea that you've just said, entrepreneurship is a whole nother story. I don't know, even 10, 20, 30 years down the line and because it's all unfolding or something. Right. I don't know, even 10, 20, 30 years down the line and because it's all unfolding or something. Right. I don't know, even 10, 20, 30 years down the line and because it's all unfolding or something. Right.
Speaker 3Definitely. Look, and it sounds like we had very different paths in that regard, because I never intended to become an entrepreneur, actually. It ended up becoming the only way I could do what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2All right. There we go. Find your voice. It sounds like. Yes. So what was the years of you moving yourself out into the world then?
Speaker 3Yeah. So. So like you, I love I mean, I love learning. I'm absolutely a lifelong learner. So I also did I did a four year degree in English and French. I did a master's in business after that and actually is during my master's. And I was one of the youngest in the year because a lot of people had already actually done a master's before coming on to this master's. It was I was, I think, one of four British people out of 80 students. It was very multicultural. It was incredible. And it was partly in London, partly in Paris. And one of the defining moments I actually remember that I think contributed to a lot of the imposter syndrome I then experienced in my corporate years was the moment that some results came out. I think it was like corporate finance or an accounting exam. And I should know. I think it was marketing. That makes more sense because I'm very much about the marketing. I was like ranked fourth out of the 80. Yeah. And I remember a girl. Coming up to me who I knew and I was friends with. And she was like, oh, my God, I saw the results. I was like, Holly's smart. And she was mind blown. She was mind blown that I was one of the smart ones in the group. I think maybe I don't know. I look younger than I am. And I was one of the youngest. You know, it's that whole. Because perhaps I wasn't showy and I wasn't the one talking about my achievements overtly because I was acquired to one in the group. But that moment, I have never forgotten it. Like, this was years ago. And I have never forgotten her surprise that I would be one of the higher achievers in the group in that sense. And I think that really stayed with me. And then in my corporate years. So I joined Big Fortune 500 companies as a marketing and brand strategist. And there was multiple times in my early years of the working world where. I was so afraid to get something wrong. You know, I felt like I, you know, you wouldn't speak up because you didn't want to say the wrong thing. Very much just afraid of failure. And if I was given a project that I hadn't done before, I didn't necessarily know exactly how I was going to go about it. It was pure terror. Like, oh, my God, how am I going to, you know, succeed? And this contributed to an enormous amount of stress to the point where. I would walk through the revolving doors of my office and feel sick to start the day and to, you know, feel like I had to perform and I had to prove myself that I had a right to be there. And I think now reflecting on it, I think this is the first time I've actually even made that link. This right to be there, like earn your place. And someone somewhere is going to find out that I'm actually a fraud who doesn't know what they're doing. And I think it's all from that perception. Of, you know, am I really good enough to be here? Actually, that's such a surprise to other people. And so that that that weighed on me a lot. And there was a moment where my boss called me into a private meeting room one day to talk through some stuff. And I was like, oh, my God, here it is. They're going to say, by the way, you don't really know what you're doing here. And we figured that out. And instead, which blindsided me, it was the complete opposite. She wanted to put me on. Like a recognition program. She'd highlighted me to the head of the UCAN Island group as one of the shining stars, to use her words. But it was so far removed from my own perception of myself at the time. It was like a wild disconnect. And this led to a lot of kind of soul searching at that moment in time as to why is that such a disconnect? Why would other people have such a vastly different perception than I have of myself? So, yeah. That was just to give you a bit of a context for how some of these things play out.
Speaker 2Yes. I think what you just revealed personally to the folks who are listening right now is something that I think reaches deeply. So I really, really appreciate you going to that more deep personal kind of conflict that you carried with you. And you didn't even know it was a conflict until, whoops, you know, I guess one day. I guess it's not just one day when we start to do self-discovery. It seems like you're a learner and somebody who likes self-awareness anyway. But so when you, it does feel like you started to wake up to this incongruent sense of the truly how you are and how you're affecting others and people who are saying, I see you. Wow. Although you didn't know that they were seeing you and getting, what, inspired, impressed.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think the wake up is a brilliant way to describe that period of time in my life because there reached a point where I made myself physically ill from the stress and the pressure I was putting on myself. I mean, it was a fast paced demanding environment. You know, everything had to be done yesterday. We're talking the fast moving goods consumer industry. Like it was. Um, you know, everything is like deadline, deadline, deadline, and there is a lot of external pressure, but, you know, coupled with the expectations I was placing on myself, um, which were often unfair actually in, in retrospect, but it, things hit a head where I ended up actually the, um, symbolism here is not a coincidence. I don't think as to why we're having this conversation, I ended up with laryngitis and I lost my voice completely. Um, and I just realized the significance of this because I wasn't even expecting to tell this particular story today. Um, and I remember calling for a doctor's appointment. I could barely make the appointment because I was literally a whisper on the phone and that's how sick I'd become. And I know hands down, this was, you know, it was what I think, you know, that generalized anxiety disorder, most likely it was never diagnosed as that because I never saw any professional help for that because I never thought that was even a possibility. You could get help with how you were feeling about work. Um, and that really prompted me to make some significant changes. So this is what I now refer to as my quarter life crisis, but it made me start considering what is my actual version of success. Not what other people think success is not what society says, not what my friends in my masters thought, because at the time when I said I wanted to go into marketing, I literally got laughed at. I was like, why are they all going into investment banking? Why would you go into anything except investment banking and make a ton of money? Um, and so this really made me sort of ground myself in what's actually important to me. What are my values? Is this path that I actually want? And when I thought ahead, I realized it wasn't. And I had this defining moment of having dinner with friends one evening, and this thought dropped into my head of, I guess I'll just be happy when I'm retired. And I was like 25 at the time or something. That's like a really long time away. Uh, oh my gosh. So this is what prompted, um, some actual personal development. I did meditation. I did NLP. I became a certified coach. Um, and yeah, it then just revealed to me that there's not one way to achieve success, you know? And I think I'd always gone down that academic route and hit the milestones and reach the director title and being a big corporation. Um, and obviously we both know there are so many different routes to success. And All That Matters is our version of what that even means.
Speaker 2Oh, Holly, already you've been giving such golden nuggets of your wisdom. You know, if people are listening, I hope they're taking notes. Not if they're, but those of you who are listening, take notes. You just got a huge one right there that there's no way to determine success when it comes to success. How do you define that? I love that. And I'm going to take a brief break and be right back because I know that there's more after 25 years old and all that personal development that must have led to something next for you. So we'll be right back.
Speaker 1If you want to get started right away to find your voice, download Doreen's free 7-Step Guide to Fearless Speaking at Doreen7steps.com.
Speaker 2Hi, we're back on the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life podcast. I'm Dr. Doreen. Downing, and I'm interviewing today a new friend, Holly McHugh, who's a coach who helps businesses, well, helps people who have businesses excel and succeed. And we've just talked about success being all different kinds of flavors. It's not just one path to success. So we've also uncovered some of the moments, kind of waking up moments. Like finding that she didn't have a voice, literally laryngitis that brought her to that moment when, oh, something needs to change. And so you started to go through changes. What next?
Speaker 3Yeah, so I married an Australian and we were living in London at the time, but we decided to move over to Sydney, which was a massive change on every level for me, left behind everything I knew. And this was shortly after I become a nurse. So I was a newly certified coach and I was so motivated and so inspired and everything was coaching, coaching, coaching, like transform your life because I'd done all this work on myself and it made such a difference. And I was so psyched to be able to start sharing this with others. So I thought, well, I'm not going to apply for marketing roles in Sydney. I'm going to apply for learning and development and HR type roles and see where I can, you know, find an opportunity to coach others. And of course, no one in Sydney gave two tosses about that. Because my resume said marketing. So no, you can't just slide into a learning and development role. And I was like, but I've got a qualification and I'm so passionate and I've done all this pro bono for your diploma. You have to do hours and hours and hours of coaching, as you're probably aware. Yeah, and that didn't count for much. So long and short of it is I managed to negotiate a part time senior marketing role in a Fortune 500 in Sydney that gave me one precious day per week. To explore, well, how can I support others in the way that actually I'm finally realizing I feel really called to?
Speaker 2And that was in their corporation that one day a week, but they like time off or something.
Speaker 3Yep. Four days in my role, one day for me. And over time, that became a job share. So as my business grew, I negotiated a job share where myself and another part time person shared our senior role. I had two days a week on my. So over time, I was building this up. Yeah. And this is obviously a huge shift in being able to really ask for what I wanted and in a way that got a yes and in a way that felt like a win win on all sides. I was so supported by my corporate organization for this. I think a lot of people thought I just, you know, I had kids and that was the reason I was part time, but I actually had my side hustle business and it, you know, as it grew, it got to the point where, you know, it was thriving. And, um, successful. And then I had my first daughter, I went on maternity leave and I never returned to corporate. So that was literally how I shifted into becoming an entrepreneur. Um, and how I had got to where I am today, but it wasn't necessarily the original goal. It wasn't necessarily the original intention, but it was really about tuning into what actually matters to me. What is the work I, I would love to do and to not let other people's expectations or definitions, you know? Ultimately decide how I went about that.
Speaker 2I'd like hearing a couple of times where you could have gotten trapped, but you weren't, you didn't get trapped. Uh, so you didn't even get trapped in, in England. You didn't.
Speaker 3Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, when I arrived in Sydney, it would have been so much easier just to accept a full-time role. And I was offered many in great organizations. And I. I chose the slightly, the very much more difficult route of completely starting from scratch with zero networks, having never run a business, having never even really charged for my services as a coach before that. But I knew, and there was this moment of clarity. I knew if I didn't carve out the time to just explore where this could take me, then I probably never would, because I would have got trapped. I would have got trapped in the safety and the security of that corporate bubble. And look, it took me a long time to leave it. I literally. I literally left when it was like, I can't have a baby and a side hustle and a nine to five. And that was kind of the catalyst I needed to be like, Hey, this is, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2Beautiful. I know that in a conversation before we got on today, you mentioned we were talking about finding your voice and you talked about a story with your, your children and you just mentioned having children and making choices, anything about having a voice, finding a voice and having a voice, what does that mean around having children?
Speaker 3Yeah. And I might get a bit emotional with this one because it's so deeply important to me. And I think there's so many parallels that I like to teach in my, to my clients with this, because, you know, working with service-based entrepreneurs, it's all about helping others feel less alone at the end of the day and what they're struggling with, right? You have a solution. You have a solution in your area of expertise that you know could genuinely transform someone's life. And by not making it overt and explicit, by not letting the world know, by not telling people that this is what you do and this is how you help, because you may be afraid to show up. You may be afraid to, you know, hold space or take up room, um, or be seen to be promoting yourself or whatever, you know, the limiting belief is there, which we've all worked through. Uh, let's not forget. You know, it is an act of disservice because there's people out there that desperately, desperately need your unique gifts. And this is something I was anyhow teaching, but it really came to a head with this personal experience, um, which has just cemented that even further. And that was with my youngest daughter, Olivia. She, um, is now four. And, uh, she unfortunately was born with a number of different health challenges. This was during COVID, during lockdown, we had zero family support. Um, and I basically, for, for one of a better description, just kept getting fobbed off by medical professionals. I knew as a second time mother that my baby wasn't feeding properly. She certainly wasn't sleeping well. And, uh, I knew that something was up. It was taking me an hour and a half to feed her. And then half an hour later, she'd be crying and hungry again. And I had a community health nurse come over to our house, you know, I'm in the throes of sleep deprivation and the newborn who's very unhappy and taking up to five hours to settle at night. Um, and she said, after 40 minutes, just cut her off, just wrap her up, cut her off and put her down for her sleep. And I had a speech pathologist come over and look in her mouth and tell me, no, she's got no ties. There's no tongue ties. There's no nothing. She's fine. I had the GP. Tell me if she's putting on weight, we're not concerned. And there was all these experts, all these medical professionals that were basically telling me she's all right. She's fine. Whereas my mommy intuition was like, my baby's not happy. She's not well, she's struggling. It ended up that she had the most severe ties you could have with Carl and her cheek, tongue and upper lip. And the analogy I was given was, it was like trying to feed with the mouth like that was trying to. You run with elastic bands around your ankles. My poor baby physically couldn't latch and feed properly. Her tummy was always full of air, not milk, which is why she was wildly uncomfortable and unhappy. Um, in addition to that, it ended up that she had ENT issues and, um, very severe reflux and a number of other things that just made her, you know, really struggle. Um, yeah, so uncomfortable. I, I, I describe it as trying to put to bed a wriggly plant. Plank of wood because she was just uncomfortable. Anyway, we, um, had to really kind of push for the support we needed. We were living in a regional town at the time where there just wasn't the experience and the knowledge. Um, and so it was put into the too hard basket. Um, we literally saw a lactation consultant who said, Oh, you've got a hard one there. I wish you luck. And it was just, you know, dismissed, dismissed, dismissed. So we went and sought out these specialist help that we needed. Yeah. Um, we were lucky that we had the financial means to do that, but it really came down to me not accepting. Right. what I was being told, even though it was from an expert professional and recognizing that when we feel so passionately and deeply for something in this case, you know, for my child, we will make a stand. We will advocate for what we know is right. And I think this was the real recognition of how important that is that when you know, there are people out there you can help, when this is, you know, your family member, then even when it feels uncomfortable, even when you have experts telling you otherwise, you will find your voice because it's too important not to write. And if I wasn't going to make a stand for her and speak up who was going to. So it was a challenging, difficult time. As I said, it was COVID. It was locked down. My parents live in the UK on the other side of the world. We had border closures in Australia. No one was allowed in or out. It was quite frankly, the worst time of my life, but she's thriving now. And it was some painful, but powerful lessons. And I share this to remind people of, you know, what you're doing things for, and most importantly, who you're doing this for. And it's not always going to be comfortable to speak up. It's not always comfortable to be visible. But recognize that if you're feeling called to share it, it's because someone else needs to hear it.
Speaker 2Oh, that's, that's breathtaking, what you just said, and how you just said it. It's so inspiring. So this has to do, I think, segue into the magnetic selling program that you do and that what you offer. And we're coming to the end. So I want to make sure and point to that so that people can see all of what you've delivered today, all the beautiful treasures that you've offered are coming not only from your true life experience, the woman that you are, but it's also from what you've learned and now what you teach others. So what about however you want to introduce your program or whatever you want to say before we
Speaker 3have to get off? Thank you. Yeah, look, I'd say that my philosophy of sales is wildly different to, you know, anything that could be perceived as kind of the hard sell. This is all about really meeting people where they're at and what they are already actively seeking. The most important thing with how we show up online as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, is to help our audience and our people to feel seen, heard and understood. Because when you can create that in your messaging and in your marketing and in your offers, there's no sell, you know, people like this is what I've been looking for. And you've just made it really easy to know where I can get that guidance, right? That wisdom, that knowledge, the expertise, that support. So my view is it's very much about, you know, the easy, effortless sales that we all desire to have. And that's where it comes from when we make it easy for people to say yes to us. And that's always leading with what they want. Where are they right now? What's going on for them? So that's really in a nutshell, the concept and where the sales psychology, the biopsychology comes into. Because when we understand the driving forces, you know, that influence and impact someone's buying decision, then the whole process, you know, becomes so much easier and more enjoyable on both sides. This is where it feels like a total win-win. You have something that can genuinely impact someone's life. They're seeking for that solution that only you can offer with your unique genius. So in Magnetic Selling Framework, I teach the biopsychology behind how to attract those ready to invest people who are already seeking the answers to their challenge. So there's no convincing, there's no persuading, there's no, you know, I have to really pressure or hard sell here or use any unethical tactics. It's literally, I see it as an act of service. It's to make it easy for the right people to find you and to get the help they're actually already wanting. And it really, in that sense, is just an invitation. So we can get away from, again, that hard selling method. It's about an invitation. So yeah, that's the premise of what I teach. I have a group mentorship program where I teach this in detail to entrepreneurs from every niche industry imaginable and all over the world. And I also work one-on-one. I have digital courses that support with really developing this skill set as well. But I'm all about, you know, having a relationship with selling that is ultimately, you know, about your people and what you are feeling called to, how you're feeling called to serve them as well.
Speaker 2Right. And the word easy keeps coming up because you're an easy person to be with too. And I think that's important that people are, you know, because there's a magnetism about those of us who are selling, offering or in our passion so that that magnetizes people too, I think. And that's what I feel today that the people who are listening and especially those who are watching it to see how magnetic you are. We have a website that people will be able to find you on. There'll be show notes and there'll be links to everything that you've just said, your digital courses and your magnetic selling mentorship program. So last words, Holly, I'll just open the space to see what rises for you to say about voice and having it. And I mean, I think you just did it. Actually,
Speaker 3you gave us a lot today. I think, you know, you already have a voice, right? And it's deciding how you want to use that voice. And I think it's really important to have that voice. And I think it's really important to have a voice. And I think it's really important to have that voice. And what, you know, you want your impact to be and recognizing that that doesn't have to be showy, it doesn't have to be extroverted, doesn't have to be braggy. It's literally helping someone else, as I said before, feel less alone and feel understood. There's no greater gift than that. We are driven as human beings with that sense of belonging. And so you showing up and saying, Hey, I get it. I understand. I know it's really hard. And I'd love to help you is can literally be that light at the end of a dark tunnel for someone. And so just know that there are people out there that need what you offer, and are waiting for you. You know, to show up for them and make it easy for
Speaker 2them to find you. There's that word easy again. Thank you so much, Holly, for being here today. And sharing your insights, your wisdom and your being and your easy presence.
Speaker 3Thank you so much, Doreen. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1Thank you for being with us today for this episode of find your voice, change your life. Each person during interviews shares what has helped them find their voice. You can learn from these guests and find your voice so you can be confident to speak up and speak out. And remember to download Doreen's free seven step guide to fearless speaking, at Doreen seven steps.com. We hope you enjoyed the show and we'll return next time. Until then, goodbye for now.
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