153 - Recovery Tools: FASTER Scale

[MUSIC] You're listening to the Pure Desire Podcast. You're safe place to find hope, healing, and freedom from sexual addiction, betrayal, and relationship issues. [MUSIC] Happy day to you people. I am your host Trevor Windsor and you're listening to episode 153 of The Pure Desire Podcast. Here join me via social distancing as always my co-host next time though. Never give up. Never, never, never give up. Winston Churchill? Yeah, that's good. I've never actually heard him speak. I'm totally making up a voice there, but did you know that when he gave that speech, he did not say never give up. He actually said never give in, never, never, never give in. Obviously speaking about Nazi Germany and never giving in, but we like never give up better. So we've changed it, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, anytime you can quote Winston Churchill, that's probably a win for everyone involved. That's right. Okay, a couple of quick things. We revisited an old friend on today's episode, not a person, but more of a tool. But first a couple of things. Subscribe to the podcast if you have it. It's free. You can find us on all the major platforms and please give us a review. It helps more people see the podcast, means a lot to us. Also follow us on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, @puredesire. PDMI. And you can also find some of our video content from these as well on YouTube, just search "Pure Desire Ministries." And then lastly, we have a pretty big event. We've talked about this before a little bit, but we have the PD Summit. The Pure Desire Summit coming this fall. It's our first ever Pure Desire Summit event. If you're in group, have gone through any amount of recovery, or just want to press into more healing, we want you to join us for this amazing event. Yeah, we feel like if you're in the "Pure Desire" universe, if you're a friend or in our family, or a fan of what we do, that this is going to be an impactful event, full of our team presenting and speaking and getting to have Kurt Thompson as a guest who authored a great little book called "The Soul of Shame" or another book called "The Anatomy of the Soul," just his ability to process shame in a very normal way. I think people will get a ton out of him. And yeah, we're just excited to have it here in our neck of the woods and should for some reason there be concerns about viruses or social distancing, even in September, everyone's registration includes virtual access. So we plan to have the conference live and in person, but if something comes up at a minimum, there'll be the virtual conference. And so we want people to be able to move forward with confidence and we hope that by then everyone will be together and we'll be having a great time in person at the National Summit. Yeah, September 11 and 12. So make sure you go to our website under events. You go to find an event. You will see the tab right there for the "Pure Desire Summit." Just click there and you can register. Also, we've got an event posted on Facebook as well for it. So, okay, let's get to today what we talked about. We via Zoom, praise Jesus and the Lord Almighty for Zoom. We sat down and talked to Ashley Jamison about the faster scale. Yeah, it's kind of ironic because I think when we recorded that second episode, we were still in a church, basically a church closet that had choir robes in it. Our equipment was very primitive and so we're like, "Hey, we've come a long ways. Let's re-record it." And yet now here we are recording this episode over Zoom. And who knows if the audio quality will be that much different than the good old Coke closet days. But what we do recognize is that this tool, the faster scale is of vital importance. I believe it's still our most listened to podcast, but it's all the way back at number two. And we were just thinking there's a lot of people that may not scroll back that far where they've kind of entered into the period as I or process over the last three years. And so we wanted to revisit this and he's built on that early episode, but just kind of bringing some of the tools and insights that we've learned a long way. And obviously, including Ashley and that from the female perspective, the betrayed spouse perspective is always helpful. So it's a good conversation whether someone is trying to figure this out for the first time or like some of us. They've been using it for years and just want to think through how do I continue to have this be a valuable tool in my recovery? - Yeah. And amings, anytime the week and sit down with Ashley is good for us and good for the listener. So I think we really built on the foundation we created in the second episode and definitely continued to grow as we learn and use this tool and help people use it. So it's going to be a great episode. Enjoy. Ashley, James Ann, thanks for being with us today. We're going to be able to make this last social distancing with us, and hey, we appreciate it. - I am super happy to be here in my kitchen, in my leggings. I have my business tough on. - It's fantastic. - We appreciate it. - We just want everyone to know that we are recording right now. This may come out post pandemic. I doubt it, but people may not be stuck in their homes anymore, but at the time of this recording, we still have to stay. And all of that, so all of us are still pushing forward the podcast. We're all wearing pants, and we're really excited about today's episode. We are circling back to the tool that we've referenced. We might be referenced every single podcast we've done. This is episode 153. This may be the 150 third time we've talked about it, but we are going to talk about the faster scale. It just sounds good off the tongue, doesn't it? Faster scale. Anyways, so I think that if you've been a listener from the beginning, you know that our second episode that we ever recorded was on this tool, but we just feel like it's such an essential tool to what we do in recovery and in healing that we felt like it was necessary to circle back to it again. So if you are happy, you can thank Mr. Nick Stembo for that. But let's jump into the first question. Let's say someone hasn't listed the podcast or hasn't been in group yet, and doesn't know what the faster scale is. Let's just kind of define it real quick for people. - Yeah, the reason we're doing this again is because we have found it to be such a critical tool and faster as an acronym. But what it is is it is an emotional and behavioral awareness scale. So we all know when we've gone back to that place, we don't want to go anymore, where we've promised ourselves or others we're going to change the behavior, we're going to stop doing something. And at Pure Desire, as many other groups do, we would call that a relapse. When I go back to a place, I've promised God, myself or others, I won't go back to, I'm relapsing. And so we know when that's happened. I mean, we can feel it. There are certain behaviors or things that we're doing that we know we don't want to be. What we have often missed is that there are a number of things both emotionally and in our behaviors that we've done on the way to that relapse. And the truth is that most of us can be blind to that pattern. We don't see the way that that is happening in a very predictable way. And so we owe a great debt of gratitude to our friend Michael Dye, who created the faster scale. And he was working primarily with drug addicts as part of his ministry with Y-WAM, and would watch them taking these steps. And he just started to feel like there was some predictability, there was a pattern to it. And he said, could I kind of categorize the phases or stages we move through on our way towards a relapse? And so he began documenting behavior and choices and decisions and over a number of months and years recognized that the faster scale is how he would describe it. And so those six steps, F is for getting priorities. A is anxiety, S is speeding up, T is ticked off, E is exhausted and R is relapse. And we'll talk through how to use that. But that's an overview of recognizing, when we move away from trusting God and others and being in healthy relationships and being healthy in our internal dialogue, we've begun to forget priorities. And when we do that, it will naturally create anxiety. And then we need to deal with the anxiety, so we start speeding up. And when we speed up, it doesn't work. We don't deal with the emotion. So sooner or later, we're going to get ticked off. And when we're dealing with intense emotions and we're ticked off, it's going to exhaust our brain and our body, which really opens us up to that old behavior that we promise not to go back to and we relapse. And so we have just seen the incredible value that if someone can start to recognize the scale and deal with their emotions and their behaviors early on, it actually gives us incredible power partnering with God and the Holy Spirit to begin changing that pattern and not end up back in that old predictable place. So it's really this emotional awareness that we're feeling something long before we go and do something. And if we can recognize what we're feeling and why, man, the tools that gives us to make change really, really is invaluable. Yeah, well, Nick did a great job explaining that. I know that for me and a lot of others that are just now, just starting on the recovery or just addressing their addictions or trauma or whatever it may be that's bringing them to working on themselves. You're not really aware of why you do what you do. That's why we're all in group. And so I just love how objective it is that anything where I can just not have to try to self-identify my feelings because in the early stages, it's really hard to do. But I can just go and highlight what I'm doing or thinking. That to me was really helpful. Even if I'm like, I'm not ticked off. If I'm experiencing road rage or constantly pushing people away or arguing or whatever is in that category, then whether I feel ticked off or not, I'm behaving and thinking that way. And so it really just helped me realize that I was in these different stages. If it was easy enough to recognize that, then we wouldn't go from restoration to relapse without recognizing. it. And so that's what I love. It's just very objective. You can go through each step that Nick explained and just look at it and and simply say, "Am I doing or thinking any of these things?" And then make a plan from there, which we'll talk about more. Yeah. It's just a grid. And I love that. That someone else did all this hard work to create a grid for me that I can filter how I'm feeling or how I'm doing through that. Instead of having to like remind myself to ask myself every day, "How am I doing today?" Because that could just be different on any day, any hour, any moment. Where this is just a grid that I can come to filter through the grid, how I feel. And then it gives me a better idea of where I'm at. Yeah. I know that when I first started a appeared as I a group, one of the huge fears I had that I was going to keep relapsing because I felt like in my life it just happened. And I'd used that line so much in confessing like to my wife and others and to myself that I really believed it. I thought I would just go along, things were going well, and then, "Woop, there was a relapse." And I don't know where it came from. It just happened. And then life would be good, and I'd be making good choices. And then all of a sudden, "Woop, it happened." And so I was terrified that one of those oops kind of moments was going to happen again. And so for me, the faster scale was so liberating. Actually, to see that there were a number of choices I was making that were I used to just just find say, "I don't know what happened." I was on my computer and this thing triggered me. And the next thing I know I was looking at stuff I shouldn't. And to me, what I thought was an oops moment, what I was blind to is, "Oh, well, first off, I was on my computer alone and I was isolating." There was stuff from work that day that I hadn't been dealing with appropriately. I wasn't in good relationship. So there's all these other factors that actually were the kind of things really I could do a lot of healthy, good work on. But until we see them, until we start to recognize what they are, we are going to end up back in that old predictable place. So it's really just eye opening to what's going on underneath the surface long before we go back to that old familiar place. So let's talk a little bit more about the significance of this tool. Why would we say that the faster scale is such an important and vital tool in someone's recovery? Well, I mean, kind of exactly. We were just all talking about it just, it helps us to see where we're going instead of that, I don't know, it just happened. Nothing just happens. There's always a pathway there. There's always, I mean, even as, you know, the Bible tells us there's always a way out. So we don't just go from point A to point B with no in between. And that's what I like about the faster scale is it is once you start to just trust the process, you hit relapse a few times and you're able to navigate like, "Why did I do that?" You really do begin to just trust if I'm in exhausted and eventually I'm going to relapse. And even though that may not make sense, like how does being exhausted, how does needing sleep, you know, how does that lead to relapse? It doesn't make sense to us even in my early stages of recovery because I have an auto immune disease. If I get really sick and flared, I can hit exhausted very easily. I'm irritable, I have no energy. You know, like I can just get exhaust really easy. And even that physical illness, I'm thinking, how does that have anything to do with relapse? But it does. It just makes you more prone when you're tired, when you're in pain, when you're irritable, when life isn't fair and you're, you know, running bitterness through your head. And so the more you're able to just trust that, the more you're able to just highlight your things and realize that you are going down a path and you don't want to be going down the faster scale. You want to be, you know, staying in restoration as close as you can. And so it's important to see this stage is coming. For me, it's an important communication tool with John that it gave us mutual language to use when we were both recovering him from his sexual addiction, me from eating, you know, sexual addiction, betrayal, trauma, you know, all the things that I was doing. All the things. And so it just gave us mutual language. It took the fight out of even policing his behaviors when we could come together and use this tool. And I know if he's doing his homework and he's using his faster scale tool, he's going to see that he's getting nearer to relapse. I don't have to keep bugging him about that. He's going to notice that on his faster scale. And then even just as a mom, when I first recognized this tool for myself, it wasn't about sexual addiction. It was just like, how does my house get all crazy and how does my laundry back up? And then why am I slapping my children? You know, like I, okay, you guys know, if you've heard enough podcast, like I'm from real had an anger issue. And I'm recovered, you know, but you know, I watched that I watched that I watched that I can get to that place again, that place that when I was a single mom, I never want to go to that angry place again. And so just as a mom, I can see I'm starting to let things pile up and it's creating anxiety, it's creating anger, I'm getting exhausted. And so I mean, I could go on about it forever. It's a good, a good tool, relationships for addicts, for spouses, for moms, anybody. Yeah. I think for me, like the language I was just thinking about it, this morning, it's like an emotional thermometer for me. I can literally tell where I'm at at all times. And what, what it's helped me do, and this is, you know, because the question is, why is it important in recovery? And it's similar to what you were saying, Ashley, that it helps me follow the bread crumbs back to what triggered me or something that was difficult for me. I can tell you right now, with the pandemic and everything that's going on. And I love the language. I know there's a lot of resources out there, but I remember hearing it from our friend Jay Stringer that, and also actually a pastor from our church, the idea that your body doesn't lie. And I literally, during this pandemic, have felt stress all the way up my back, all the way into my shoulders and my neck. And I literally can't get comfortable. I'm like moving around and I can't like, yeah, I'm sitting a lot more because I'm at home and I'm working, but man, it's been, it's been good because the faster scale, like I said earlier, kind of gives me that grid that I can filter that through. And it also helps me try to connect the dots. We get into some of the best practices. I can, I can share a little bit about something that's helped me do that. But for me, it helps me not feel shame that I feel tense or feel these things in this moment. It helps me tie it to something that actually happens tangibly and starts to basically normalize how I'm feeling. Not justify, because there are some things on the scale that, you know, you probably want to avoid or stay away from. But it does normalize the process of how I got there and I feel less shame. And that actually equips me better to deal with it because I'm not carrying this load of shame on my back as I'm trying to figure everything out. It actually releases that. And then I can take some steps forward to get off the scale and start to process the emotions. Yeah, I really think of it as the difference between trying to stop a behavior or changing the way that we do life. And that's something we talk a lot about. It appears as I or that that our behaviors are really an outcome of the way we're doing life of the system that we've created. And so if we don't look at the system and start to unravel that and do life differently, then the behavior is going to keep happening. And I think again, that's what was eye opening for me in this process was to see that my my behaviors in pornography were an outcome, not not just a choice I was making an isolation. I've used this on other podcasts, but to me, it's that illustration of someone who's on a freight train that's running 50 miles an hour down the track and then, you know, sees danger becoming and tries to pull the e-break. We, that train can stop, but it's going to take it a long time. And by then, it's often too late. I think that's how many of us feel when we're kind of accelerating towards that that relapse. I can see it coming, but I almost feel powerless to stop it. And in a sense, it's, well, you are becoming powerless because you are going further and further down that path that your brain knows, your emotions are responding to. And if you wait until you see the imminent danger to start taking action, that's that's a losing battle. But if if the train is just starting to move, if the engine is just turning on and the wheels are beginning to move and we see, I know where these tracks lead me and I don't want to go there, then it's actually much easier. And I don't want to simplify it, say, oh, it's no problem and everybody can do it because it still takes work and effort. But it's like, oh, I can see I need to make better choices now. I need to do life differently. And then I'm not going to head back to that same old behavior. So to me, it really comes down to saying, you know, do you want to be successful at living free? And if so, then you need to address the whole system and change the way you do life. And that's really what the faster scale gives us the language to do. Yeah, Nick. I remember the first time I went through betrayal and beyond. It was actually other than school and things like that. The first thing I ever completed, I was such a quitter. I have a lot of energy. I'm a seven. If anybody-- Any gram? Any gram? I'm just seven. Yes, I was seven. And so I'm just like a kid in a candy shop, a little puppy, anything new and cool I want to do. But then I easily get burnt out. And so being busy is one of my relapses. I just don't get myself enough margin for kids, a job, you know, and then all my things I want to do. And so I quit a lot of things after I start them with all this passion. And betrayal beyond was the first thing I ever finished, start to end and did all the work and participated. And I remember calling my sister going, I'm not a quitter. I just-- I get overwhelmed and then I hit this spot on this thing called the faster scale that it says black or white, all or nothing. And I just realized-- I think it was 28 years old when I first went through that. I am not a quitter. I just let myself get overloaded. And then I back out of everything. And that was really cool because then going through the trail and beyond that first year, every time I'd hit that black or black and white or nothing thinking, I would look at my calendar and say, I'm in a bad place right now because I'm at risk of like dropping my group and saying, not doing it anymore, quitting my job, quitting my kids, quitting my husband. And so I look at my calendar and say, is there anything I can take off? And even if I have to back out of this event or even if I have to, you know, not go to that party, it's going to be worth not hitting a wall again and quitting everything and quitting on everybody. And that was really exciting for me to realize that I didn't have to be that kind of person. And that gave me a lot of hope going forward that I could change some really bad behaviors that I had. That's good. So you kind of have already touched on this a little bit with your experience and material and beyond. But when you're thinking about a recovery tool, you think that it's specifically for someone who's struggling with an unwanted behavior. But do we also see that the betrayed spouse or the person in the relationship that is experiencing the hurt, maybe the trauma, the betrayal that it would benefit them as well? Anybody who's been through betrayal and beyond group start to finish and has done all the work will hands down, say the faster scale is one of the best tools they have at their, you know, in their toolbox. The tender part of it with betrayed spouses is you don't want to bring in a betrayed spouse who just found out something horrible and then give her a sheet and say, "Hi, let all your bad behaviors. You know, highlight everything that you're doing wrong in your life." And so you have to be really, why is it how you bring it up and when to bring it up? Because like we've already talked about through plenty of examples, this is a tool that applies to anybody for anything. It's not sexual addiction specific. It's just a, if you're a human being, it's just a healthy tool to have. But you'd never want to give somebody who's in trauma and, "Oh, yeah, here's all these healthy things you could start doing with your life." Like you wouldn't tell a woman who comes in after she finds out about an affair and say, "You know, are you exercising enough? Exercise is really good for you." You know, there's a time-- You're not taking care of yourself enough. You know, you're struggling with the amount of you just exercise, you know, and then, you know, maybe be a spare too and, you know, I don't know, it might make you feel better. Like you wouldn't say all those things even though they're healthy thing. Because it's healthy. And so when I introduce it to women in betrayal, it's past the trauma part, past the understanding addiction. And it's like, "Okay, now what do we do just for ourselves, for self-care and keeping ourselves healthy and that holistic approach of we just want to be healthy all around?" And it can be hard. The first time I introduced it to a couple groups, they're like, "Why am I doing this? I'm in this group because, you know, so-and-so did something to me." And I just tell them, you know, if you're thinking and feeling all of these things on the faster scale that you've highlighted, they're already playing a role in your life. They're already in effect. You're already thinking those things. You're already staying up too late. You're already overeating or under-eating, whatever it is. And so putting it down on paper and highlighting it so that you can see it and make some healthy changes is not changing anything. This stuff is already happening. We're just putting it on paper so we can make changes and you'll even be able to handle trauma better if you are healthier and rested and doing these things. And so when you introduce it to somebody who's been betrayed is important, but absolutely, yes, everybody should use it. Yeah, I would just take what Ashu is saying that it's a tool for people. And so if we can recognize there's any area of my life that I'm doing things I wish I didn't do, and that doesn't just mean sexual behavior. That might mean I explode at my kids in anger. That might mean I go on a shopping spree and run up a whole bunch of debt that I later regret. I binge eat at night. If you were to ask, I think the majority of people, are there things in your life that once and all you do, you wish you didn't. Most of us would raise our hand and say, yeah, so to approach it that way to not say, well, you need this because you're betrayed or you need this because you're an addict, but just to approach it to say, this is a helpful tool for us to recognize why am I doing what I don't want to do. And so in that sense, it can be beneficial for spouses, addicts, those are betrayed. But the other great thing, and Ashu mentioned this, is the common language it can give a couple to talk about recovery and what they're working on. Because if I'm able to say to my wife, I'm sorry, I can feel I'm speeding up. I'm just trying to deal with some frustration I felt from work and it's not about you. Well, she immediately knows what I'm talking about because she knows what speeding up is and she's aware of my patterns. We've talked about those things. And she's able to enter into that to be more supportive and vice versa that she needs to share something. So it's really a great way, like Ashu had said, that a couple can start to communicate on an emotional level because I think that's a reality that most couples, they know how to talk or discuss the kids and sports and where are we going on the weekend. But to really connect emotionally, what are you feeling, what's driving you? Most of us didn't get taught how to do that well. And so the faster scale can become a really effective meeting ground where you learn to share things that you haven't known how to share with your spouse. So it's really effective in that regard too. Yeah. And talk about not just using it for addicts and betrayed spouses. My mom joined a Genesis group last year and I've mentioned this before. We had horrible communication style. We used to hang up on each other, not talk to each other, yell and then come back together. We just did not know how to communicate well. And so when she joined a Genesis group at my prompting a year ago, she ended up calling me one day and saying, "Can we have lunch together?" And I was like, "Sure." You know, like my mom loves to treat me to lunch. And then she traps me in the dining table and she's like, "You're on my commitment to change this week after doing my faster scale." And I'm like, "Oh, no." You know, but she's paying for dinner. So I had to listen. And I love her. And but it was like the best conversation we had had because it was over a life-long frustration that we have with each other where she'll tell me something that I'm doing with the kids that's dangerous. She's very cautious, I call it paranoid. And I tell her to stop talking. They're my kids. You've already told me once they can walk barefoot. They're not going to get hookworms. Everybody can send in their like comments about this if they want, but I just like, tell me about vaccines once. And then they make my own choice. And so she doesn't like how I blow up at her, but I also don't like how she's constantly telling me what's dangerous for my kids. And so it's an instant trigger. And so for her to say, can we come together and talk? And that her commitment to change was to talk to me. That week was really great because she shared her feelings. She said, "You know, these things happen down the faster scale and it causes me to act this way." And then I said how I felt. And then we made a plan that she can tell me something once and then she needs to give it to God and let me be an adult and choose what to do with that information. And so now she's like, "Can I say my one thing? I have my one thing. Can I say my one thing?" And I let her say her one thing. And then I take the information. I said, "Thank you for sharing that. Now I'll think about that and decide what to do with it." And so that's like mom, daughter relationship that we're using this faster scale. And it's really great. Yep. I think another thing, and this goes with all the questions really, but I think that just the other day, I remember getting ready for the day, I had made this plan. Amy was having a rough day and I just thought, "You know what? I'll take Brady or Sun who is like full blown, three-nager mode." We could do, I could sit here and tell stories and process that right now. We could have group right now. And I'm not going to do this as self-control people pay attention. But I came out in the living room and I'm like, "Hey, how about I just take Brady on a drive and gave her some options and thoughts." And she didn't love the idea and responded not the way I thought she would. And I got so upset. I got so upset. And the faster scale has trained me. It took me a minute. Definitely took me like, you know, a couple hours to figure it out. But I was looking for a win. I was looking for, I want to care for my wife emotionally and feel like I'm a good husband. So it wasn't that she said no. It was actually that I wasn't able to feel the way that I wanted to feel. And so for me, what it's helped me do and the reason I say this is it's not what happened that made me upset. It's the emotions and the things I had going on under the surface the whole time that really made me upset. And what's great is the language you guys are talking about. I literally processed with her later that night. I'm really sorry for how I responded and I got upset because this is what I was after. And she was super understanding and I felt like it basically created a better connection between us. And so I think that's just, it has so many different applications outside of I want to stop watching porn or I want to stop overeating. And it just practically has been super helpful even recently. Yeah, that's a really good example. Yeah. It's like we're trying to figure out the story behind the story and that's going on for all of us. So what's happening in the moment is not really what's driving us or where the emotions coming from. And the more we learn about that, the more present we can be with the people we love and care for. So you guys, if we find ourselves kind of getting down the faster scale where maybe into ticked off or we realize we're becoming exhausted, the temptation can be okay. I need to climb my way back up and not be so low. But that's not really what we do. So if we recognize we're starting to move down the scale, getting to an unhealthy place, how do we change that and get back towards restoration? Yeah. So the way that has been explained to me through group and as I have become more and more familiar with the tool is it's not climbing back up, it's jumping off and starting back at restoration. And so for me that has looked like a couple different things. I think when I identify that I'm getting a speeding up maybe exhausted, maybe I mean ticked off for sure, but like when I'm getting into speeding up I've learned to start making phone calls or reaching out and just processing with someone what's going on. I may not even be able to identify exactly what I'm feeling, but at least I've started a conversation and kind of let my emotions breathe a little bit. If that makes sense let someone else speak into it that knows me, knows where I'm at. And for me that helps me to name how I'm feeling and it may be identify the timeline of what happened and what has kind of brought me to this place emotionally. But then also for me it's just a way and for me I'm a verbal processor and so it's just good to get how I feel out there and almost let somebody this is a bad, this is a bad example, but I'm gonna say it. If I verbal vomit someone can kind of kind of sift through all of that vomit and be like okay here's what caused it. This is what made you sick, this is what made you feel this emotion, this is what caused the pain. And so I think less people would actually answer my phone call. That's how they do. I viewed your conversations. So Trevor you're a verbal processor. What that's shocking. I know I am also a seven on the N. A. Graham. So you can email me about it later. But a couple other ways that I've processed to is for me I've learned that journaling is really helpful. Where it's just and really it's a prayerful journaling where I'm processing with the Lord. This is where I'm at. This is how I'm feeling asking questions almost exploring or like putting on the detective hat. Like why am I feeling the way that I'm feeling? Where is this coming from? What has triggered this? What is this tied to in my past? What am I not getting that I want right now? And so I think that journaling has been that way. And then there are moments I've been exploring this as I've kind of been stressing into spiritual disciplines and understanding the value of them. Just sitting in silence and really like that idea of like listening prayer. Where I'm just sitting and I'm just allowing the Holy Spirit to just start talking to me. It's really uncomfortable as a seven. It's really uncomfortable as a human being. But I think that that's something I've also seen some some quick revelation from the Lord as to what's really going on under the surface of come. So those are three things that I have put in practice practically to help me jump off the scale and work back toward restoration. Yeah. I do the same thing. When I get to that place, I do a lot of journaling and praying and have to write it out to keep my little seven brain on track. But what you know, other than what Trevor said of jumping off the faster scale and just going back to the things in restoration instead of you know, climbing your way back up, it's the combination of getting off, going back to doing all the things you can in restoration and then also putting in safeguards because you are in a vulnerable place. And so even for me, I just feel like I'm in the twilight zone right now with the quarantine and no structure and kids and zoom meetings and triple zoom meetings at the same time with the kids. And I feel so crazy and I feel out of control with everything like shopping, eating just I feel really out of control last week. And so I knew that I was in relapse just in other ways, getting angry at my kids and eating and just shopping and just numbing out on TV. It was really crazy. And so I'm like, okay, I need to get off this crazy train and start doing the things in restoration as well as put in safeguards. So no TV past 10 o'clock. Like I'm going to watch some Jesus films instead of some murder films because I need something good in my soul before I go to bed. And so I switched what I was watching at night. I, you know, try the TV after. There's an irony here though because Jesus films, if you're watching the passion, that is a murder film. Like there is this like both and tension. Yeah, no, I know, but I need like murder that makes my heart want to love others more. Not be vigilant. The right kind of murder films. And just like all of those things and talking to John, like, okay, let's just drink wine on the weekend or, you know, like putting in, I looked at my whole crazy train behaviors. I am not going to buy anything. I started listening to a book by Jen Hatmaker about self-control and not having overindulgences. So whatever I could do to fix, you know, to plug in good things, I totally switched. And my week is so much better. I haven't yelled at my kids. I haven't like over a, you know, I'm doing really well, but it's crazy to see how your week can flip when you get off the train and then put in safeguards and start doing those good things. Yeah, it can be good to go to the definition of restoration in the faster skill that defines it as accepting life on God's terms with trust, grace, mercy, vulnerability, and gratitude. So if I realize I'm on the faster scale, for me, it's that question of, okay, how can I accept life on God's terms? And what do I need to enter back into? Is it trust? Because trust will usually be about relationships or vulnerability reaching out to a group member. Is it shifting my mindset to gratitude? Is it giving myself grace or mercy for people in my world that if I really focus in on that definition, it often makes it evident what I'm missing. Like, where am I not accepting life on God's terms? And that's what's driving me down the faster scale. So if you can take a few moments to take deep breaths and think through that and just, okay, how can I accept life on God's terms, it can move me back into a healthy place that then I can readress my day and try to lean into whatever it is I'm facing. Yeah, that's really good. Okay, so we have, again, talked about the faster scale a lot on a lot of our episodes. And I think that we've touched on really a bunch of different tips for really just approaches to using this tool that have been really helpful. But again, like with this episode kind of recycling back to it, will you guys just give us some just thoughts? Like, what are some tips that you would give to people? Maybe who are just starting to use the faster scale for the first time now that we've been using it for a few years? What would you tell them would be some tips on using it? Yeah, I know this will sound really revolutionary, but I think it's super key and that is to follow the instructions to do it the way it's laid out to do because I think there's a tendency for people to look at it and get over what there's so many words and there's the what do I do or they just, they can't make sense to their weak like, I don't know where I was and that temptation to just kind of dismiss it. I think it really helps to break it down and keep it simple. So you go to the F of forgiving priorities and you read the words that describe forgiving priorities and you're doing it with your pen or pencil in hand and as you read secrets, if that was present at all in the week, you underline it and then less time and energy for God. So avoiding support and accountability people. You read through the whole list and if it was true at all, you underline it. Then I can break it down to just the words I've underlined and I can circle or star or identify the one that was the most present. And then I can take that one word. So I'm breaking it into these pieces that keeps it doable, keeps my mind from getting overwhelmed and just looking at like, let's say procrastination, answering questions one, two, and three about procrastination. And the other tip I would have is as you answer those three questions, don't try to make it too big of a deal. That's what I find some people do is, did I write the right thing or I don't know if this is exactly like, if it comes to mind, that's the goal. So how does it make me feel when I procrastinate? I feel lazy, I feel out of sorts, I feel like I'm, you know, not getting my job done. How might it affect important people? And that actually leads to another tip. I all hear a lot of people say like, well, I don't know how they feel. But you don't need to go ask them. You don't have to wait for them to tell you all you're trying to do is put yourself in their shoes and say, okay, if I'm procrastinating, how might that make my kids feel or how might that make my spouse feel or my employer? Like, what kind of ways does it impact them? And you write down what comes to mind? And the same on number three, and then go to the second, go to the A of anxiety. Do the same thing. Read all the words, underlying any that were true, circle the one that was the most powerful, answer the three questions. And I just find that if I follow the instructions, it's always a beneficial time. And I can't tell you how many times I will realize that I was further down the faster scale than I thought simply because as I go through the word, it's like, oh, yeah, that was happening. Oh, yeah, that was happening. But in that discipline, what it does is it can help you overcome some self-blindness. If we just look at the faster scale and try to go, I think I know where I was, I was probably in speeding up and we make some guesses. We're not really going to help ourselves overcome any self-blindness because we're just seeing what we've always seen. But if we follow the instructions and take it step by step, it actually might create some awareness that otherwise wasn't there. So that's maybe my greatest tip is just follow the instructions, make it a healthy habit and discipline, and trust that God's going to reveal something through this that really can be life changing in your process. That's really good. Does anybody else not be honest about where they're out in a faster scale, just because they don't want to write so much? Like sometimes just stop in the '80s so you don't have to keep writing. I don't do that either. You do the only one, yeah, for sure. I know, but Nick is saying, like there's a tendency to just be lazy, like assume where you're at. I, to be honest, I have done that a few times. Like, okay, I know I'm in TikTok, but I need just some done writing. But the more you use it and do it fully, the more you're gonna get out of it. And so some of the tips that I have would be just to understand that it can be confusing at first. And everybody that I've talked to says, it's a little confusing to understand it the first few weeks, but just keep doing it, keep listening to others. And the more that you use it, the more you'll understand it, it'll just become second nature, second language. But you're not alone if, you know, if you feel like it's confusing. The other part would be, don't skip over categories that, you know, the process is that we go from that, you know, forgetting priorities to anxiety, to speeding up that there's a process to read, there's a visual predictability to relapse. And so, you know, to get to anxiety and say, well, there's nothing anxiety, but there's a whole bunch in speeding up, really stop and think about that, pray about it. If you're brave enough, ask people that know you the best, and that live with you, you know, are there any areas in here that you see that really think about what you're highlighting in each step? And then the other part that I can see, some group members getting confused on is when it asks, you're like, why do I do this? It's really, why, what need are you trying to meet? It's not, you know, don't fill in, because I lost my temper, because I'm selfish, you know, that we do things, we do even unhealthy things to meet a genuine need. And so, why do I do this? You know, yelling at my kids or zoning out and watching TV, my need could be, I just, I needed some downtime. I needed some self-care. It's not because I'm selfish or because I'm lazy or because my kids were being evil, like, you have to really stop and think about what it is you're needing 'cause that's why we do addictive things, is we're trying to fill a void. Why am I overeating and my procrastinating? Why am I, you know, does it make me feel good? Did my feelings just get hurt? And now I wanna eat something because I wanna feel good or I know I wanna look at porn because I wanna feel good because I was just with my parents and I felt rejected that you really need to dig why it is you're doing that thing. - Yeah, yeah, and then Nick Suggestin was great about not thinking in too much about how you're hurting others. Just, it's really just, why am I doing this? What am I trying to get out of this? And then how is it affecting others? Just putting yourself in that head space, especially as an addict is really a good place to be. - Yeah. I just have two more to add. One that's been really helpful for me. And I wish I could climb credit for this, but I can't. I'll give Brian Roberts the credit where credit is due. He told me, we're going through some of the material. He would say, when you circle something, put a date next to it so that when you look at your week, I literally can look at and map out my week. Okay, on Monday I had that really, like really good day maybe at work, but had some weird things happen. And then Tuesday had a really difficult meeting that brought me here. And then on Wednesday I got to Exhausted. I remember feeling like where did this come from? But if I look back, it creates a timeline, you know, down the scale of what happened. I think interestingly, maybe this is my creative idea brain, but like also if you do map that out and jump off the scale, you actually can see what day you had those conversations and went back to restoration, and then maybe went back down in a forgetting priority. So I think that that can really help people tie their emotions to things that actually happened. And then the second tip is really just talk about it on your phone calls. Like when you reach out to somebody, use that as the language to describe where you're at. When someone is checking in, literally the first question should be, "Where are you out on your faster scale this week?" And let's talk about it. Use that language, use that, you should literally have that scale either on your phone or right, like physical piece of paper, looking at it when you have those talks, because that's gonna help you process with that person. You're gonna facilitate you actually jumping off the scale going back to restoration. - Yeah, that's really a good advice. And to add to that, just glance at your scale daily, 'cause it's like you're saying, it's so easy to forget what happened in the beginning of the week. So if you're sitting down to do your scale before a group, you could completely forget what happened in the beginning of the week. - Yeah. Yeah, so you guys, we've all been using the faster scale for a number of years now. We've seen mistakes that we make, but we've also watched a lot of other people in group kind of go through this learning curve. What would you say are the most common mistakes that people make when they're starting to use the faster scale? Or maybe when they've been using it for a while? - Yeah. So a couple of them come to mind, and the first one is very similar to what Ashley's saying, that you do your faster scale one time a week. Either it's like midweek, and you're like, "I already did my faster scale." Or it's, "Oh shoot, I have group tonight. I better do my faster scale." Like you may find some stuff there, but at the same time, it's one of those tools where the work you put in is really gonna determine what you get out of it. And so doing it just one time a week, or doing it maybe at the beginning of week, and then right before group, I would say do it at least three to five times a week. And then the second one, and I struggle with this personally, and in leading groups, I've also seen this too, where you actually start to compare where you're at, or where you were out on the scale to other people in group, where it's like, okay, I made it down to speeding up, but oh, oh, Nick, you made it to exhausted. You had a worse week than I did. And what it does is that promotes a culture of shame, and we don't need that. Like, you know, maybe you got to exhausted because you had some things happen in your week that were terrible, and really like, you went from like restoration to exhausted, that doesn't mean you had a worse week than I did. If all I did was hang out in anxiety or speeding up. And so I think that we need to not make it a comparison thing or a competition thing, and I think it's really easy to do that, because you know, just shame. I think shame just enters in the room and that culture, and I think we gotta avoid that. - Yeah. - Yeah, and what Nick said, just the biggest mistake is not doing it thoroughly, whether it's you're just not following instructions, or you're being lazy like, I am sometimes, and not filling it out completely, that you want to do it fully, and really be open to things that might be new in the week, or things that you're discovering about yourself, because that's why we're doing it. And not having the same, you know, I need to read my Bible and pray more, I need to just go to bed at 10 o'clock, like if you're having the same revelations out of your faster scale every single week, then you're not really gonna go anywhere. So just be really open-minded, and be brutally honest with yourself, and then make the necessary changes that you need to make. - Yeah. Yeah, the value of an exercise or a tool is in actually doing it. It's like if a person thinks, oh, I know how to run five miles, that isn't nearly as productive as actually doing the exercise of running five miles. And so if we assume, oh, I know where I'm at on the faster scale, I was in ticked off, and we don't actually do the exercise and walk through the process, it's kind of like the value of only thinking about running five miles. So it's in walking through the steps that really we grow and learn and are changed. A couple of the other mistakes I see is how often people would say there was no benefit to a behavior or a stage of the faster scale, or there was no benefit to me. We wanna remember that anything we're doing is because there is a payoff, and it may be a benefit to our old nature. It may be a benefit to our sinful self or our addictive self. And we've maybe learned as Christians or Christ followers to not call that a benefit, but if we look at it for our old nature, those are benefits that are brain in a place that is not moral, says, oh, I like that, it felt good, or people left me alone, or I had an excuse to be lazy. I had permission to not try or to give up. Those are benefits to our old self, to our fallen self. And if we can acknowledge that, it can really help us grow and see why we keep choosing that thing. So do your very best to never say, oh, this has no benefit. If you're doing it, it has a benefit to your old nature. The other thing I'll see is the people skip restoration, they don't go back to talk about restoration, 'cause I go, well, it was a rough week, I don't think I was in restoration. The truth is that at some point your week was okay, and when it was good, why was it good? And even if you just showed up at group, you're back in restoration because you're keeping a commitment to being in group. So to always process what's good about my week, that's what the restoration category can do for you. And then I would just echo what you said Trevor, about not letting your faster scale become comparison, and even for yourself. I know if we're a performance oriented, for all you threes out there on the NEagram, the faster scale can become like a great. If I got to tick off, it's a D, if I'm an exhausted or relapse, that's an F. And so we wanna go no further than forgetting priorities because that's like an A and I had a good week. And what we need to remind ourselves is that being on the faster scale doesn't make you a bad person. Being on the faster scale makes you human. And as a human being, and I've told this to all my groups, there will be a day you end up an exhausted somewhere in your life because that's part of being a human. And for getting our limits and boundaries and just getting to a place we didn't mean to, that's not bad, that's human. And we just wanna recognize our patterns and tendencies. So don't get into that temptation like, well, I don't really wanna go beyond anxiety because it was a good week. And if I say I went down to speeding up, then it wasn't a good week. And I thought it was a good week. So I can't go further than anxiety. The truth is you could have a great week [BLANK_AUDIO] At some point you ended up in exhausted, but the way you dealt with it and handled it was really excellent. So it was a great week. And you could actually have a really poor week that you never got beyond forgetting priorities. You just camped out there. So we've got to get out of that performance grading mentality and just say, hey, the faster scale is part of being a human, but the goal is not to go to relapse. The other stages I would all say are part of the human experience. We just want to figure out how to deal with them in healthier ways. Yep. That's good. Okay. So one of the things that we do is we really, this is tied to another tool that we use. And it's called the double bind. And so how would, because the double bind and this another one of those tools we will come back to again, we promise. But it is something that can be challenging to understand. So how does the faster scale tie with or tie into the double bind? Yeah. So when we're doing the faster scale, it's kind of like we're down in the trees. You know, we're at a very detailed, specific level. We're looking really closely at certain behaviors and choices we made. The double bind is kind of coming back up above the tree level. It's getting to that 30,000 foot view and saying, okay, big picture here. What was driving me? What was really pressing me down the faster scale this week? And usually there will become kind of a dominant thing that happened. Maybe it was an argument with your spouse. Maybe it was some pressure or a project at work. Maybe it was just some internal dialogue. Maybe it's a secret that you're keeping that's driving you. And if you can kind of identify what was the biggie that I was dealing with, then you can answer those two questions of why was it a double bind? Meaning why was it painful to change, but also painful to stay where I was? That's your double bind. So let's say if it's that I'm keeping a secret this week, well, it's painful to admit the secret because that takes vulnerability. It takes courage. It might hurt the person. It's an awkward conversation. So that's painful. But in keeping the secret, now I have anxiety about it. I'm getting ticked off. I'm worked up. It's kind of on my subconscious. I'm not dealing with it. It's like, oh, okay, this is what was really driving me. And that may be some weeks where you might not exactly be sure what was the main one. But if you can even just pick something that you think might be underneath it, it gives you another perspective to look at, why did I keep going down the scale? As opposed to when I was in for getting priorities right away going back to restoration. So that double bind connecting it to the faster scale can really help bring another level of illumination to what we're doing and what's driving us. Yeah, this is always a challenging one for people to wrap their minds around. And I just think about it as, I'm in this place that's not healthy. And I'm recognizing that. I'm looking down, as Nick said, from that 30,000 foot view that there's something that's a challenge or is not healthy and to just weigh it, that loose, loose situation that change is always going to cost something. So do I continue on this pattern or do I make the tough decision and maybe uncomfortable decision to change? And for me, it helps when I step back from my faster scale. So you're in it, you're every day highlighting it. As Trevor says, maybe put some dates on there, just really get into it. And then when I go to do my double bind, I just take a step back. And I look at all of my highlights and my faster scale and really ask myself, is there a theme this week? Sometimes my theme is just saying up to late eating too much, watching too much TV. It's very just indulgent physical things that are wearing my body down, making me irritable, depleted. Other weeks I've stepped back and I'm like, everything on here if highlighted is mental. I'm replaying negative thoughts, I'm mind reading. I'm whatever it is that was maybe from my betrayal trauma or I got in a conflict with a friend or how to ref week with the kids. And then other times it could be something spiritual. I'm avoiding church, I'm avoiding my Bible. Why am I doing that? And so I just like stepping back after all that hard work of doing the faster scale and looking at the theme because I could easily, I live in speeding up, not that I'm proud of that. And then in the last weeks I handle my sped up life, like Nick was talking about really well and I still feel like it was a good week and other weeks it just gets away from me, the kids and work and whatever. And so I like to have my double bind, ebb and flow with what I really need to work on that week, even though I'm kind of always in speeding up. I always need to read my Bible Marie, always need to work on better exercise. But really picking what was the major problem off your faster scale and then rolling with that is my favorite way to work on the double bind. Yeah. For me the current double bind is working from home is consistently seeing my 38 week pregnant wife try to deal with this three major and the feeling of the tension of like I want to help and I want to be a good husband and I want to relieve my wife. But then at the same time I'm working and so I feel like if I go help then I'm not able to get my job done. Yes. But if I'm like doing my job then I can't actually be there for my wife. And so the double bind in some ways for me I think I almost look at it as this, this maybe similar to what you're saying Nick, like a backdrop to how I'm feeling. Like it's kind of the background if you will that's kind of the current situation. And so for me it's helped me to understand and I'm encouraged right now that the rest of this week, you know, the next coming weeks that I needed to just be aware that that's a double bind I will be walking and consistently. And in some ways that allows me to give myself grace as I'm feeling the emotions that I'm feeling but also tether it back to something that may be creating that tension in my life. And your shoulders. Oh my God. My shoulders. Okay. So let's wrap this up. I think that this has been really good and even just I went back and listened to the second episode we did of the episode two of this. I think this is already way better definitely building off of it. But I think that one of the things that as we go through recovery we start to think, oh I don't need this or all I've done this. I maybe don't need to have this as part of my recovery tool kit. Do we ever stop using the faster scale or should we? Never. You should never stop using. No, I mean, okay. So realistically my pattern is I just ended my unraveled group last week online. Shout out to all my ladies who are doing amazing and going to go lead. It was an amazing group and I love being in group because of that weekly accountability. I love when John and I are in groups simultaneously because then we both are doing faster scales and we're addicts. So we need that accountability. But right now I'm not in group and I probably won't start another group till September. And so my tendency is to just keep a check on my week, assume I know where I'm at on the faster scale. And then when I start getting really crazy, I'll pull it out again. But I'm always striving for is doing that faster scale weekly with John because it's one of our very best marriage tools we have. When we say we're going to commit to praying together this many times a week or just can communicate, it just gives that space because if you're married and and have kids, you just know that days can go on and you realize you haven't had a really sit down meeting full conversation with your spouse or even checked in with yourself. And so if you can at all just keep it on somewhat of a regular rotation in your life, it's going to be so good. And and like I said before anybody who's gone through group is going to tell you the same thing that it's a tool that they take with them out of their book and continue to use print off versions from our website or whatever. Yeah, I think a good question to ask might be do we ever stop needing self awareness because going back to where we started, this is an emotional and behavioral self awareness tool and what many of us lack is really, really healthy self awareness of why do I do what I do, what's driving me, what's what am I feeling, what's triggering me, what's making me get angry at and and because that's going to be the rest of our lives, I think there are definitely ways the faster scale can benefit us for the long haul. Now does that mean we'll always be in group? Does that mean we have to look at it every day? Well, no, I think over time our habit or use of it might change. If we continue to use it at least weekly just to walk through the steps to do the exercise again, it's going to continue to give us that kind of self awareness and really to think about self awareness isn't actually for me. I know it's got the word self in it, but self awareness is truly a gift I give to other people because if I'm aware of what's triggering me, driving me, making me emotional, then I am going to be much more adaptive responding to you, communicating with you and having the kind of relationships that are healthy and growing. If we keep that perspective, then we say, "I always want healthy self awareness and if the faster scale can help me get there, then I'll keep using it." I think if we have that perspective that it's not just a recovery tool, then we do see that it's something we can keep using for the long haul. Yeah, and I can even, so my son, Wailen, I wish I had it on the fridge still, but it's up in his room. He has a little baby version of a faster scale. He does counseling for some anxiety, and counseling is great, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I learned that. His counselor had me come in for one of his sessions and talk about these five steps. She should broke it down to five because 10 was too much for a little guy. She said, "What does Wailen look like when he's just in his relaxed, anxiety-free state?" I'm like, "Oh, so this is what he looks like." We went through visually what he looks like. He snuggled up in the couch. He's really smiley. He's hugging me. And she's like, "Okay, when he starts to experience a level one anxiety, what does he look like?" And we wrote down all the things. His room starts getting messier or whatever. And then she took his favorite character, so it could be Marvel characters for somebody. And so which one does he represent when he's in that really happy place? And he picked his favorite character. And then it got kind of angrier and more like crazy characters toward the bottom. And so we put that up on his fridge and he went next door to play with the friend and came back so angry because he gets a little anxiety playing with people. And I said, when you left, you looked like this character, but when you came back, you looked like this one, what happened? And he went upstairs and sat in his room. And I forget they're like Pokemon characters. I can't remember their names. He's like, when I went over, I was like, you know, blah, blah, blah character. And then this happened. And I started to feel angry like Charmander and I came home because I didn't want to get to the one that was on the bottom. I didn't want to get to that place where I hit him. And so he relaxed and talked through it. And then he's like, I think I'm, you know, whatever rainbow bird. Now can I go back over? And so when I went to his counselor said, do you know what the faster skill is? And she's like, yes, the thing I created for William is basically a little kid faster of scale. And so we even have it. And it is so amazing for him to visualize where he's at on that scale. And I can ask him before he even goes over which bird are you on the scale right now? And I don't let him go over if he's too low. Shout out Charmander. Like way to go. That's so good. I'm pretty cool. I don't have a story like that. I just the way I think of it is like it's as if I have read the Bible one time through. And I'm like, okay, I'm good. I don't need it. I don't need to read anymore. I'm okay. I can move forward. And what I'm learning, it's like I'm reading through Luke right now. And it's like, I've read Luke before. I've read it a few times actually. And what's interesting is I'm coming through it again in the different season of life. I have an eye at I am a different person. I'm at a different place emotionally, maybe in my maturity, maybe in my context. And those things change over time and how I interact with the same things I've read or the same things I've done, changes and develops and grows. I think the same thing is true when you use the faster scale that you start to realize that some of the things that I do in forgetting priorities might actually be where I want to start putting my relapse. So it starts to develop or grow a little bit where I'm starting to identify relapse differently because of the recovery work I've done. But also just understanding that it's like on, yet like yesterday coming to the faster scale, I may have looked at it this way, but today different contexts, different day, different situations, I may be looking at it differently. And I think that to just look at it as your static and this thing is static, I think is wrong. And so I think that that's something that I would just encourage people using this tool long-term can really create a lot of future growth and future health as you continue to use it. Yeah, okay. Great. So good. I had an interview. So the faster scale can truly be a game changer tool and recovery and healing. But really, like we've talked, it's only useful if we actually use it. I mean, imagine that. It's only useful if we use it. And it's like the healing journey in so many ways, you will get out of it what you put into it. And so this tool continues to obviously be something that each of us uses. We pursue even more healing. So if you're not using this tool, use it. If you're not in recovery, this tool is still something you should use for sure. Print it out, start just using it today and become more self-aware. Because as Nick said, you're not the only person who's going to benefit from this. Actually, the benefit is going to be for other people. So Ashley, Nick, thank you for Zoom recording this podcast today. Good stuff. Thanks, Trevor. Wherever you're at on your journey, just remember that peer desires here to help give you the roadmap appealing. If you or someone you know is looking for help, just go to our website, peerdesire.org, and you can join a group. You can start the counseling process. You can buy our resources. Just start your healing journey today. If you have subscribed to the podcast, do it. It's free forever. I promise to share it with your friends and family, ride a review, help others find the podcast. And lastly, never stop being healthy. [Music]