#15 These 9 Things That Will Radically Improve Your Life & Trade Business (If You Actually Do Them)

[MUSIC] Welcome everybody to another episode of the Off the Tools podcast. As always, it's myself Wayne Betis and Andy Jones, how are we doing Andy? >> On in, always got the cup. >> Good lad, I'm messing up again, starbucks again. >> I'm going to be gutted, I'm going to be gutted. >> I'll get some more order for the next retreat. [LAUGH] So today we are talking about nine things that will radically improve your life and business if you actually do them. So I would advise that if you're listening to this and you can, if it's safe to do so, obviously, maybe make some notes of the key nine areas that we're going to talk about today. So let's just get straight to it, shall we Andy? So the first one, you'll hear us talk about quite a lot. I'll type with this one, raise your standards, then raise your prices. So Andy, do you want to kick us off with that? >> Yeah, so obviously we've always been big advocates for this, but you have to think about the knock on effect of your pricing structure. Beyond just trying to grab the customer. So we ran the webinar the day, a lot of guys really low on the pricing structure. And it was why you're new charging more and it was well, my customers won't pay more. That's one part of what we're getting out here. Well, you've just kind of answered your own question there that you need new customers. But to go further down the sort of domino effect of that, you're then going to be tied to your back pricing structure for all the respects of work in the house. So if you have service in their boiler for 60 quid, when it comes time for a new boiler, you're not going to be able to charge your good money for the new boiler because you've got to, let's say, a cheap customer. So there's a little bit of a, there's nuances to it as well. A lot of the time, lads will over deliver on price, on value. Regardless of the price. So a lot of the time, it isn't just about being too cheap. It's also about the amount of value you give to customers. So, you know, a lot of lads of, you see it on the forums, they'll go rushing out on a Sunday morning because of the, you know, a long-standing customer has got the, you know, the boiler's not working. That is like premium level service and they're not charging for it usually. But yeah, by getting by charging cheap, you're going to attract the cheap customers. And then you're going to be sort of trapped for one of a better way of saying it with that. You can't, you know, can't charge 60 quid for a boiler service for, you know, a few years and then, you know, start to educate yourself. And we get this all the time. New lads will come into off the tools. They'll be in charge in 60, 70 quid for a number of years. And we get the same response of, well, actually, I can't lift my prices because these kind of customers won't pay it. So what we've found themselves fast to do is somewhat start over again. So, yeah, you think, you know, you think, well, I'd think the building of business and the very focused on customer acquisition, which is absolutely the right thing to do in the early stages of business. But a customer acquisition, full of cheap customers, isn't going to build your business to that's going to grow. No, and a lot of people think that by working harder, they're going to escape that stress trap. And I think that's not the only thing that's going to help you get the money. And I think that's the only thing that's going to help you get the money. Because the two scourds to take the time, like, like, we started in our heath and business, we started out with a really strong price. And yet, it's very difficult to not to stand, stick to your guns and stand your ground with that pricing, because you get a lot of nose, because people are again used to paying that cheap price and getting more value for it, through the sort of a failing of other guys. But it's imperative that you stick to your guns when you do that, because otherwise, as we've just said, you end up with a diary full of cheap customers. And would you go from there? There isn't really anything you can do from there. Other van replaced those customers who've kind of wasted your time filling the diary with them anyway. Yeah, no, definitely. Most of the guys in this trade's industry, they don't have a skills problem. It's a mindset problem, isn't it? You know, they think drafting and working hard is going to solve the problem, but just isn't the solution, is it? And I think it might have been you that mentioned this phrase, that like, if your pricing doesn't make you slightly uncomfortable, then you're probably too cheap, aren't you? Yeah. And if you converge, again, and that spills out, so you can track that through as many metrics of you want. So whether you want to say, if you're not getting a lot of nose, if you're not getting people saying, well, you're way too expensive things like that, then yeah, you're definitely doing something wrong in my opinion. Again, it kind of depends what you want to achieve from your business and potentially from life as well, but if your conversion rate is really high, then you've got a problem. You're too cheap, basically. That's again, fundamentally, this is the recurring theme with our conversations, with our mentees, is that they don't really know any of the business side of things. It's only once they start learning from me and you and from the other lads who have been doing it for a while, they start to realise actually, this is a business, this isn't just plucking a price out within a, you know, and I've used that description before of if you were to sit down and work out exactly what you need to charge per hour. Let's say you started a new business tomorrow and you worked out what you need to charge per hour and all the data came back to say you actually need to charge your £100 per hour. You wouldn't go out and start a charging people £80 an hour, you just wouldn't bother. That's the challenge that guys are operating without the knowledge. So they think, "Oh, I'll just do 60, 70, 70, and I'll get a lot of yeses and lots of yeses is good because it keeps me busy." But you end up just, as we said before, you just end up with lots and lots of cheap customers who really restrict your ability to push forward with them. Yeah, definitely. So that is point number one, raise your goddamn prices people. Let's move on to number two because we've got nine to get through that trust me, you know, not at least these nine haven't just worked on theory that, you know, me, Andy and many of the lads in off the tools have implemented each one of these. So please make sure that you're paying attention. So the next key point to discuss here is pick a lane based on your strengths, not Ego. So what I mean by that is if you're good at installs, you're fast and efficient, focus on that. If you're brilliant at service and repair, put your attention on building that as the business. And ultimately, stop saying yes to absolutely everything. Agree? 100% and again, I'm super biased on this. So, you know, me and Wayne have both said the same thing many a time. We're not particularly brilliant engineers. You could argue that makes us better as coaches, you know, those who can teach as they say. I remember when I like back in my tie boxing days, it was generally the common theme. Most of the best coaches were relatively average to good from the competitive side of things. And I now believe that it's because you only have so much capacity. And I think, and you know, we had a we had a mentee up yesterday with someone to one coaching with me and my admin team. And I said the same thing to them when they were asking, well, oh, you're quite good on the software and you're good with this and you're good with that. And I say to them, it's because I was, I'm not the best engineer at all. I was good at breakdown and repair. And that was it. Like, it took me two days to a commie swap kind of thing. So it was just like, but so what happens is you then start to shift into, as you put it, your own lane. It's just transpired to be that my own lane is coaching mindset and now becoming software based as well. But if you're, as you've said, shit out of the installs, stick to that as well. And that also actually then is somewhat transferable because as I say, our business is predominantly service and repair. And because that was the thing that I, like the one skill set that I had as an engineer, it also then puts me better positioned to own and run a business that is focused on that. Because I kind of know what I'm talking about with that, you know what I mean as opposed to, you know, a really complex older S plan system and there's a low last header and shit like that. I don't know. Like because that's not not my jam, you know what I mean. That's where our business is domestic UK based service and repair stuff so that then you, then you can own that. If you're shit up at that stuff we've just spoke about, if you're, if you're really niche and you're really good with big houses with big systems, you know, two boilers, three boilers, multiple tanks and that's your jam. And that's, that's where you need to lock down on, leave the basic stuff that I've just been talking about. Yeah. Particularly a lot of convenience semis and, you know, niche down on that. So yeah, not just on your own skill sets as an engineer, but what you can then potentially transfer into a business and have a niche business doing that as well. Definitely because not all work is good work. Some work will just keep you busy and skin. Why don't it, you know, yeah, it's again, it's if you try to take on everything else and as I just explained, if you're not sort of skilled in everything else, that's when more mistakes happen. So if you start trying to do, you know, start trying to break into the bathroom world, but you're a heat, you're a breakdown engineer, you're going to struggle because you're not going to stand the, you know, you know, all of the in-depth stuff and what's going on behind the wall and, you know, that boards, sharp and tiles have popped off the board, you're not sure where the leak is or the timber's warped underneath the floor, so the trays dropped and, you know, all these sort of things, there's a lot of complexity trying to just like, and again, it's a bit like the, we were just talking about before the pricing side of things, more as you say, more is not always better. So just trying to soak everything up for fear of, because most guys really struggle to say no, don't they, like you said before, it's just so scared to hear a no or say no to someone. So that's the, the skirt to hear someone say, no, you're too expensive, so they stick to being cheap. And the two skirts are let a customer down, because they think they'll lose that customer, you know what I mean? They might have been servicing the boiler for a bit and changed them rads and saying some taps and then they say, oh, can you, can you change this, you know, change my bath for me or whatever it is? And then they're like, oh, I don't want someone else to go in, because then they might steal that customer and you know what I mean, it's well, I've got to go. And then you just end up in a vicious cycle, then, not staying in your lane, you know? So just to reiterate that, that key point number two is pick a lane on your strengths, guys, okay? It's so, so important. Moving on to number three, one of mine and Andy's favorites, favorite subjects. So build recurring revenue that buys you breathing room. So if you're in a business that can have a recurring income model, then you've got to be bloody doing it, haven't you? You know, there's, we could do, well, we have done it and we will do more on this in depth, but you know, a few key points about recurring revenue, you know, service plans will bring you a steady flow of cash. So that improves your cash flow position each and every month. It means that when you're quiet, you don't have to panic as much because you've got that safety net of that recurring revenue coming in. And ultimately, it increases the value of your business, doesn't it? You know, because there is some actual tangible asset within it, rather than it just be at the whim of a phone call. Yeah, signed contracts that if you wanted to sell a business, you'd got to, as you say, something tangible. But ultimately, it's building some stability because, you know, a lot of guys get scared about growing the business and hiring staff. But if you've got a recurring revenue, you can offset those monthly outgones with the recurring monthly incoming money you've got from this recurring revenue. And it can be implemented in almost any business and any trade business. So for example, I know a guy who's a detailer who's done, done, have hands and done my cars and that over the years and was chatting to him the other day. And that would be a really easy one to put the service planning. You get a monthly care clean, you had the other other and that would be something that most guys wouldn't even think you could implement it on something like a detail in business monthly top up. The more premium guys would do the ceramics, you know, an annual top up of your ceramic coat, you had the other other, but it can be put in anything we're, it can go. Like we'll see. I'm in discussions with my son's girlfriend. She's a dog walker and dog sitter. And that's like the next iteration of her new business. She's like, you know, is to lock these people in, you know, pay X amount a month and you get four walks or five or whatever it is. So you've just got to be a bit creative. If you're not in obviously the plumbing and heating industry, it's like so easy to do. People can be a bit scared if they're not in that industry, but even electrical, you know, smoke alarm tests, carbon monoxide alarm test, pack testing, all of these sort of the EICRs, you know, all of this sort of stuff can be put in into some sort of package drainage, you know, like even like even to the point of like kitchens, you know, making sure that the kitchen is looked after once a year, all the handles are tightened up, cleaned up, you know, whatever. There is so many. Yes, it's not going to be as easy for those industries that maybe it's not the norm in, but it wasn't the norm in plumbing and heating. It wasn't the norm in TV. You just look at Netflix and stuff, do you know? I just want to interject there just from again, my experience as well as my research and that we have touched on this before on when we did the long podcast, there's what's happening in the world, but predominantly in the UK, does becoming the number of people who've gone through higher education is increasing and the number of people with, let's call it quote unquote, real world tangible skills is reducing. So what you find in is that the people who have gone through higher education and maybe in a reasonably high salary job, but then lack those tangible skills are simply outsourcing that kind of stuff, you know, I think I read something the other day about someone had paid a handyman in the central London to put a shelf up or something, it was just like 500 quid because it was like writing central London and he did like a same day service blah blah blah. So you're getting people who like, well, I don't know how to do that. So I'll just outsource it. So even something as simple like like I changed, you know, for those who don't know, I've got six-year-old twin boys and the like the both big lads as well and they're just like a world went through the house and the open kitchen covered in the ranting outfit like in the 30 odd kilos and blah blah blah. So we've got them double hinged things that a week is shit. I've replaced them about eight times now. So something like that is about a kitchen fitter. You could have something in place where when the door drops, when the hinge snaps. How you combine fix it. You know, there's a guy in, I know this is the either end of the scale, but there's a guy who is based again in the centre of London and he only has five clients. He's a heating guy, but he only has five customers. That's it. So all he has five customers and basically pay him. I believe it's about five grand a month each because these are uber wealthy people and he is ready on call for them and they meet in that working bank. He's around and he's got all the parts in the van just for them. So there's other end of the scale. Yeah. Where you wouldn't even think that would be a thing like, but there's people who either don't know what they're doing or they've got enough money to say, I want you to, you know what I mean, like this is people who don't care about spending that money. But again, there's something, everything, carpet cleaning, and your carpet refresh. Yeah. There's so many opportunities in recurring revenue. It's unbelievable. So to make sure we keep on time, just to recap that. So key point number three is building recurring revenue that will buy you breathing room in your business. We're going to move on to number four, which again is another key point that we talk about a lot. And that is systems will beat hustle. Get the right software for the business that you're running. You know, software in this day and age is the heart of the business is to be in heart. You know, you should be doing your quotes through it. You should be doing your invoicing through it. You should be managing your diary through it. Job cards, job reports, you know, payments, communications, everything runs, should run. through centralized systems. And more so, customers are now starting to expect that level of service. If you're not sending out booking reminders, booking confirmations, you're falling further and further behind. People like us, we use multiple softwares to elevate our business and make our life easier and be able to outsource roles that maybe if you're not using a system, it would be pretty impossible to do. Systems will reduce friction, reduce mistakes, importantly, if you have a set system of how to booking a job, then it's very hard for someone to make a mistake with that, isn't it? Which then, on the other side, that makes it a lot easier to outsource. It's systems are just fundamental in this day and age, aren't they? Yeah. And again, we're in 2026 now. There's a lot of guys and they'll be like, "Oh no, I've never needed software. "I don't need to worry about it." But you didn't previously. Now you absolutely fucking do. There's no way of getting around it. And I was chatting to my office manager about this yesterday and there's a couple of key points that we discussed on it. Number one is we have probably saved two more members of staff in the office by having the software, because not only the automation's but the efficiency, especially something like Coltian, where you can spend an amount of time to get it ready, build it out to the work that you do. And then it's ready and it's a bit evergreen then in moving forward. The other thing, and this was a prevalent point of that, it's my belief that fast forward over the next 10 years and the ability for the sole trader, guy not using any software to still operate will be slim to none in my opinion. Because that's not a failing of them as an engineer that is going to be customers or willing to take the old school away anymore. That's what me and you are obviously working hard to try and get through to people. You don't really have a choice and be an ignorant to it is not an option. You don't have a choice. You have to, even if it's just a job management software and something to deal with the inbound inquiries, but people just won't suffer it. Like you say people we live in an Amazon world, you know when your person's come in. Like we had some parts come to the office yesterday via DHL I think it was. We got told a few days before what day it was, we got the reminder on the day, we got a tighter window in the mid morning and then we got you know gym, yard, guy is coming between 11, 52 and 12, 52, then it's like easier than it's been delivered and then reception terms up with it. But it's like that's people people unfortunately have come to expect now. So if you don't start to implement that, what will actually happen is someone will maybe ring you and they don't get old here or they'll ring you and book a job with you. And you're doing it the old school way of year. I'll come to you on Friday Mrs Smith. I'll see you then it'll probably be the afternoon. But then that's it. Thought is he coming? Is he not coming? Or it's four o'clock? Has he still coming? I don't really know. And then some people it will start with people not really being happy with that. To them people just not accepting that. So then it'll be you actually will rank him and he said he can probably come next Friday. But then around this company who said, well yeah, we can come to you on Friday. It'll be a morning slot will give you an arrival window and then when you are engineers on his way from his previous job, you'll get a text message. And if you want to you can track him. Service me obviously. You can track him if you want. And then it's like, oh, that's like what I have to do. Yeah, just take someone to a new level, didn't it? That's not happening to me. I'm a new but yeah, so then it's like what'll happen is the he will have lost that customer then forever because it's like, well, actually, this is what I want. Whether he's a veteran year or not, you know what I mean? Like it's the time for the time where you can really shine as just being a better engineer, doing a good job and charging a good price and building a business that way is gone. It's not enough now. I agree. You have the other things in place that we've spoke about so many times before. And yeah, you hit a very important point about being ignorant to it. And I think blockbusters is probably the prime example of that, isn't it? You know, back in the day, if you wanted a movie, you went to blockbusters where you all would have grown up. Most of people listening are going to probably be mid-20s at early, early 40s. You know, we would go to blockbusters, rent the movie. What did they do? They were ignorant to the fact that the online world was taking over. They even had the chance to buy Netflix, I believe, for like a few million quid. And their belief was that they didn't need to iterate their business. They didn't need to change the model that had served them for 20, 30 years and look at them now, you know? The guy that there was actually a makes it worse 'cause there was another thing for that with Netflix that they offered to go into partnership with them. I really like to stream to download the content that they owned and stream it as a business together. And they laughed them out the door. And I think Toys Arrested something similar with Amazon. They had the chance to be an exclusive toy distributor for Amazon and decided not to do it. And obviously, to pieces that have gone incomplete. Yeah. And they were, you know, Toys Aros was the thing, wasn't it, when we were young guy? Yeah. Definitely. We had a massive one in Near Ikeer, it needed the big Ikeer in Warrington, Massive One. And it was our big experience as well, wasn't it? Yeah. And it was a real part of the fun. They had such a market domination, didn't they? And then within a few small years and a technology revolution, it snookered everything. I want to end this little section on that statement there, Andy. If your business only works when you're present, you don't own a business, you own a job. I believe you've said that many times. I have said it many times. So I know that might not be nice to listen to, you know, on the other end of that statement. But it's so true, isn't it? And systems are one of the, one of the major players in taking you from having a job to actually having a tangible business, isn't it? Yeah. And again, like, obviously, we're all very passionate on this because we don't want lads in the trades to come on stock, for onto a better way of saying it. And putting some software in place is a very, very easy and, in my opinion, low cost way of allowing you to operate in a very similar way to where you've already been operating, you know, still being, you know, nicer customers, doing a good job, good reputation, et cetera, but allowing you to still keep up with the other guys. Because again, to finish that conversation I had with my office manager, it's my belief that there will be a rise of, like, so what will happen? You'll end up with certain areas where the dominant players in the game are the small to medium trade businesses with, you know, let's say, sub 10 engineers, an office team and all the software. They, you'll get a handful of them in certain area. And the guys that were just the one manband, old school style guys will just sort of phase themselves out. So just one, and I'm running a bit over on this, but again, we are quite passionate on it. It's just what I will say is to the guys that are just the sole trader, one manband style guys. Look at your revenue, look at your profit, sorry, for the last, let's say, five years. And if it's not gone up, you've got a bit, or at least, stayed strong and just maybe slightly crept up, that should allude you to that you've got, you're getting sucked in. Or this, what we've just been talking about is starting to happen because you're what you're finding is maybe you're not getting quite as many customers as you were before, because these are getting picked up by the guys that are doing it with software and doing it properly and bringing them into them, bringing their trade business into the modern world. And what, again, without going into the realms of inflation and things that are already eroding your profits, if they're not at least being similar, then that in itself must elude you to that. There's a problem starting to happen. You know what I mean? If you can't quite replace that car that used to change every four years, now it's every five years, you know what I mean? That holiday that might not be able to go on that holiday. That should be enough to say, something's going wrong. And if I don't step in now and change something, well, it'll happen is I'll reach a point where it's like, I've got no other option now. I don't have any little bit of savings to implement some software. I don't have any extra time to educate myself and stuff. It becomes too late and then you're left with actually, you either go and get a job for one of those businesses we've just spoke about or you come out of the industry. So yeah. Yeah. So that's key point number four. Sort your bloody systems out, guys. They're non-negotiable. Moving on, we're just going halfway through, so I'll just quickly recap. So point number one was raise your prices. Point number two was pick a lane that suits your strengths. Number three was building recurring revenue. And number four is have systems in the business that help you run it. So moving on to number five, which is get paid up front and lock in the paper trail. So we've all been there where we've done jobs, customers haven't known what's included or there's a dispute. And you know, without the proper paperwork, without proper deposits, it can all get very, very messy. So it's so important that you're sending out quotes that have your terms and conditions applied, that have a physical except button or signature or some way of them committing to that process. And obviously, ultimately, you know, we should be taking deposits. In my business, we take deposits on any job over 500 pounds. Some businesses will insist on payment up front in this day and age. You know, we're all used to it. We order stuff online, we pay, and then it turns up. But yeah, getting paid or at least a portion of the payment up front is very important and making sure that there's a solid paper trail in that business. So that if a dispute occurs, you're covered. What's your thoughts on that? So we actually do take payment up front on any job that or any job that's perhaps a line item based job. So anything that's kind of cut and dry, we would take payments up front. So something like a boiler breakdown, which is for us a line item job, we would take payment up front for that boiler repair. Again, that's what you're saying about when you supply materials. Again, payment up front. And this is another one that a lot of guys tend to struggle with because they say, oh well, either I've never done that before or my customers wouldn't pay it. This again falls into being making sure that you've got a bit more of a substantial business. Because again, yeah, if you're a sole trader, one man banned and you don't have any online presence, the customer is a new customer. They don't really know you from Jack. It's going to be hard and naturally to take payments up front. But if a Google search of your business produces lots and lots of results and you're even easier if you're a limited company because you've got companies house, there isn't any reason why a customer should be concerned. If you've got thousands of reviews online and you're well established, you shouldn't be taking the risk of not getting paid up front. Especially when you supply materials because that's costing you money, isn't it? So most of the places, as you say, take these payments up front. Like, you know what I mean? Big businesses, they all take payments up front. Why are you not doing the same? Again, it's trying to sort of pivot your mindset from thinking like, sole trader, tradesman, or I'm just a tradesman. To be honest, I've got a business. I need to run it like a business which requires payment up front. And A, stops the casual problems. And B, and this is a controversial thing. But from, again, experience, when you wait till job completion to take payment, you've lost all of your control of that job. So all of the horror stories you hear of lads like, you know, I'm going to go on, like lads, you've done a driveway for someone or they've not paid, I'm going to go and rip the driveway up. Because the cost must be nitpicky about this tiny little bit of tolerance, which is allowed in this game, blah, blah, blah. So yes, it requires the correct software and terms and conditions and acceptance. But if you get paid up front, you can then remove the emotions from a hiccup after the job. You know, you get it a lot with builders, don't you? You get the job, the customer owes them 10 grand of not paying because, you know, this does not on straight or whatever it might be. Then the emotion comes in then because you're like, well, shit, that's 10 grand. I need that to pay my mortgage. Flip that and it said, you've already been paid. And it's like, yeah, okay, well, I'll pop round, you know, next Tuesday, we'll get it fixed and we'll be happy because you can, you can operate logically then. So you know, but also it's about that transparency. So again, to use the the boiler, sort of breakdown analogy, what we take payment up front for. That was born off the fact of we were getting a lot of work from light landlords and property management agents, who perhaps don't really know how boilers work. They've probably never been on site and saw that particular one. And it was always like an expectation for you to fix the boiler. So again, you've got to get that TNC's and the quoting software in right, but you were then we were finding we'd go out. They knew it was a fault find. We then send the invoice and it'd be like, well, is it fixed? Well, no, this is a fault find. Oh, I thought you was going out fixing it. I went again, payments up front, the right software and acceptance things like that. So yeah, in my opinion, most jobs can be paid up front. I agree. And if you're not taking payment, whether it's full payment deposit and you're not having it agreed in right in, ultimately every time you're doing that, you're gambling, aren't you? You know, if you're going to spend 300 quid on some materials, plus your time to not only are you gambling 300 quid of your hard earned money, you're also gambling the hour, two hours, three hours, whatever it might be, in the hope that they're going to pay, which yes, in most cases, most people are honest and most people will pay. But what happens when that 10 grand one doesn't pay and you can't pay your mortgage at the end of the month? You know, that's when you need that, this policy in place, isn't it? Because it's for when things go wrong, you know, yes, I trust that you're going to do a good job, but not all customers are honest, like not all tradesmen, you know, if you're a road tradesman, then don't listen to my bloody advice because I don't want you ripping off people. But I'm trusting that people that are listening to this are honest, hard working people. And this isn't about stitching up a customer. This is about protecting yourself and being a true business person because we're here to make money, guys, you know? And we have to safeguard that with the right processes, with the right systems, everything we've spoke about and having a paper trial and taking deposits or payments upfront is one of those key points, isn't it? Yeah, as again, like to repeat, can repeat what I said before with the different viewpoints on it is that, you know, we all hear about the cost of living, etc, etc. That affects us as well. As well as the customers move a lot of people look at it from a customer perspective, all they can maybe afford that because of the cost of living, but it's the same from our end. And another sort of common thing you might get, especially if you do a bigger job, is a customer might want to try and defer paying you that invoice until they've been paid perhaps, you know, run 28 today, pay day for most people on Friday. If you were to do that, that old school way, go out and do a job today and send an invoice. Majority of people will probably hang on till Friday to pay you. Yeah, yeah. So you, and then what happens if an unexpected bill drops on the doorstep, again, you're probably going to be last, oh, sorry mate. Yeah, I'll start it out for you next week. And sometimes it can just be forgetfulness, can't it? Like like the customer, you done the job Monday or Tuesday in their head day, we're going to pay you on Friday when they're their payment hits, they forget because the kids are screaming in the car, you know, they get home and life gets in the way before you know it. It's Monday or Tuesday of the week after and they still haven't paid. You're left out of pocket. Yeah, it's just, it's just another way. And then you start flapping and you're wasting a lot of energy and personal time, then trying to chase it up afterwards, which usually takes more effort than just getting paid up from. Yeah. So to end that point number five, guys, is get paid up front where possible and lock in a paper trial on every job. Moving on to point number six, hire admin before you think you're ready. And then, admin in my opinion isn't a cost. It's actually leverage. Okay. One good office person will instantly free you up. Okay. So don't underestimate the value that an admin person can do in the business. I know Andy, obviously you're a huge believer in this. Yeah, do you want to elaborate a bit deeper on why hiring an admin before you think you're ready is important. So just to again, shift back to a prevalent thing that you said before about staying in your lane and sticking to what you go to. If you're a fucking awesome bother installer, why are you answering the phone? Why are you booking jobs in? Why are you trying to go out and do pricing quotes? And you know what I mean? It's like stick stick to what you go to and you will generate way more revenue by utilizing that time. And then you're spending for a figure 10 hours a week doing admin, whether it's, you know, payment related, booking jobs in sending out emails, whatever it might be. You can wait, make way more, you know, the reality is a heating engineer makes more money than an admin person. That's the reality. That's perhaps a simple way to look at it. If you can make more money, fit in fixing boilers, swapping fuse boards, whatever the trade that you're in, stick to doing that, stop untrying the phone. Yeah, that's the tip. It's probably the simplest way that I can try and contextualize it. I think the biggest thing here for a lot of tradesmen is they see it as a cost. So they see the admin person as a 20, 25 grand cost. So that's what scares them. They look at their income, they look at what they're doing in their business and they think, how can I find 25, 30 grand, whatever it's going to cost you to pay for that? And that ultimately is the biggest obstacle. Because once you shift that mindset, that it's not a cost, that it's actually leverage, it's actually being prudent to spend that money because if you find the right person and you, and caveat here, right, you've got to spend time with these people, you've got to train them. You can't just employ, marry down the road, throw in the deep end with half an hour's worth of training on how to do things and then expect the business to run, you know, Andy's smiling because, you know, we have a few lads that maybe have fallen into that trap in the group and hopefully they're quickly learning the lessons. But if they're trained correctly and they're given support and they're given freedom to, you know, I don't believe in like regiment style management, you know, there has to be room for that individual to have a little bit of freestyle, have a little bit of their own emotion and their own qualities, you know, to come out. Then you will then just see if you do those things, you will see so much benefit, won't you? And, you know, just your business alone, Andy, how much is it progressed since you hired Office Person Number One and then Office Person Number Two? Again, most guys are going to look, put all of the focus on to getting more field staff, more engineers out on the road, more technicians out on the road because they see that for what it is, which is a direct revenue driving role admittedly. However, I will categorically say for my business, it was the non-revenue driving, Adam and Rol, that we're talking about, that has made the biggest pivot in the business because it's just, there's so many variables that you really don't think about when you're hyper focused on more revenue driving such as like, if you just look at, like, and again, funnily enough, in my meeting with my office manager yesterday, we looked at this, we just literally pulled up the last five reviews on one particular platform and every single one of them used a, I should, you know, every single one, communication. That's the software we've just been talking about and the admin we're talking about, admin team we're talking about now, communication, every single one, fantastic communication, never experienced this level of communication before. And then one in particular, in the same lineup, referenced one of the members of the office team by name and how friendly and whatnot they were. But again, I'm much like yourself, I'm a bit big advocate for letting them sort of on the role because again, that's the next extension of staying in your lane, isn't it? So that some guys will take someone on and go, well, this is the script I want you to work to this and you're just gonna end up with a pissed off admin person who's like, I don't really like my job. Will you say, well, this, like, I don't know if it's you who gave that analogy of putting the bump, like going playing bowling, putting the bumpers up. Yeah. And then say, well, this is the space to work in. Don't go outside of there, don't go outside of there, but all of this space in between is for you do what you will with it. Yeah, no, and that analogy works for life as well, you know, I read it in a book, I can't for the life of me remember the book it was in, but it explained that principle in like, if you lived by a busy road, right? And this was to do with like freedom, right? And you let your kids out in the garden, but there was no fences, right? And they could go anywhere. So they could go to the river down there, they could go over the busy road. Is that the sort of freedom you want to have or is it better to have some level of security? So boundaries that are your safe and secure and that person can then experience the freedoms within those boundaries. It just felt relevant to sort of bring that up because I think putting guard rails in for admin is important because it gives them space, but not unfiltered space. But you can also leverage that in your own life, you know, have certain boundaries that you're willing to do, how many hours you're willing to work, et cetera, and have that structure to create more freedom for yourself within that, isn't it? - Yeah, absolutely. Any other points on hiring admin? - Just, yeah, I'll say this to so many of the lads. Again, my own perspective on it and this is something that really surprises people. And again, something I've seen on the forums, a lot of lads said, oh no, you could, you can have five engineers per office staff, 99% of the time that's incorrect, although it does depend on the type of work that you're doing. But usually you're looking at, from what I can see, a two to three, so let's call it a 2.5 to one ratio in my opinion. So if you had five office, sorry, five field staff, you're gonna need two members of the office. - I would agree, all of them. - Definitely for a service, right? - It's a very space business. - But even if you've got, let's say, again, let's say a bathroom business, where you're doing a lot of bathrooms and there is a required input of a lot, they probably require a lot of communication. Customers come in and all like these tiles, like these or whatever, same scenario. But yeah, for a service, space business like ours, where the lead volume is very high, then there is a lot of phone time and a lot of quote sending as well. But again, it's freeing up that time. I would always be the advocate for us. It will always be a two to one ratio. - Yeah, for us. - Well, I'm just thinking back. So when I was at my biggest and I had 10 vans on the road, I had a full time showroom manager. I had two girls in the office. My wife was part time, so that's four. So I'd say I had four point five when you include like the stuff that I was doing 'cause I was like the managing director, so I wasn't out on the tools. I weren't quoting, I was just working in the business. So a similar, like two to two point five ratio to the team I did back then. That was like 10 to 12 years ago. So I definitely agree. So to move it on, 'cause otherwise it's gonna end up into a massive long too long of a podcast and people wouldn't stop listening. Number six, key point number six is to hire admin before you think you're ready. And just the last little point on that, stop looking at it as a cost, okay? 'Cause it really isn't if it's done correctly. Moving on to point number seven, which is market consistently, even when you're flat out, okay? Busy businesses, market themselves 24/7, 365 days of the year. Quiet periods in your businesses are caused months in advance. There's a lag to it. So by marketing consistently, you will limit the amount of quiet times that you have. What I see, you see, with all the ads that we work with, is people get busy. So they stop advertising, they stop marketing, that wave starts to crash out, then they go quiet. When you're quiet, it's too late. You should have been marketing for work a month, two, three months before. And I see it all the time. And if your business keeps going up, down, up, down, not only is it exhausting, it puts a lot of pressure on you as the business owner. Doesn't it to find that work? And the simplest solution is to consistently market. Look at all the big businesses. Do you really think that Apple, Amazon, McDonald's, do you think they need to spend millions of pounds of marketing as in like, they're busy, they're generating revenue, but they know that if they stop that and they lose that momentum, they will then hit a downward spike in any big business and in any business, no one wants a downward spike. So marketing consistently is probably the easiest way to reduce the highs and lows. It's never gonna be, you're never gonna find a trades business that doesn't have the odd up and the odd down. There's always gonna be, especially like he in, we get quiet periods during summer, we have huge spikes during winter. That's seasonal, that's, there's limitations. to how far you're going to be able to control that curve. But by marketing consistently, you're giving yourself that best opportunity to not get to those quite periods and have to panic and make rast decisions. What's your thoughts on that, Andy? Yeah, and the other side of the coin as well, marketing is often one of the first things that people trim when they're quiet on the pierce is tight, which is again, biggest mistake. Marketing/advertising has always been a crazy thing in the trades and construction industry, because you probably heard me say this phrase a million times. It propagands my gears when guys say I've never had to do any advertising I'm marketing and I'm flat out and they were it like a bunch of honor. Yeah. Because the grinds my gears, not from them personally, but just a lack of education on why that's such a negative thing. You should, as you said, 100% true, always be running marketing, always never, never let it go, because it will mean that even if you don't plan to really scale your business, you can go either start to increase your pricing or and or you can then start to be more selective of your work. If you've been in the game for a while and let's say you're 60 and your body's a little bit beat up because you've been doing loads of installs and you go, you know what, I really just want to move to service and repair now. How are you going to do that? If you are not marketing down that channel in a way where you can start to then hand pick the kind of work that you're doing. So it's more than just growing a business and that's what again, so many guys think well I don't want to scale and grow a business so I'm not going to do any marketing. I'm happy being on my own, being the local guy. That's fine now, but it's like when you say well, wouldn't you like to make a little bit more money? Wouldn't you like to be doing the kind of work that you either like and enjoy or you are the best at? Some guys like just doing plumbing for example, but they find themselves fitting boilers are bathrooms because they feel like well that's what we have to do because that's what's coming in. Yeah, you know and you just want to start doing you know reactive plumbing work for example, then you're going to have to do marketing to bring that in. So yeah, there's firm or nuances to marketing than just what most guys think which is getting busier are growing a business. One of the biggest things that I see and I have seen for the last five to ten years is the turning it on and off like a tap, you know, so when they're busy or or it works like I said in both ways and that's like I get it sort of like habit isn't it that like oh your busy said, so do I'm going to stop stop doing the the advert here, I'm going to stop doing that and vice versa when you're quiet, you might be like I can't spend that money, but turning things on and off you just lose the momentum and it's so frustrating because I know from experience and working with so many different businesses over the years that the ones that succeed market consistently, you know, they don't turn it off at any panic or any any high point or low point, they keep it solid and I think that like to sort of go full circle on that that comes down to knowing the numbers in the business because if you if you understand the numbers correctly and you set aside money for marketing then you don't need to think about turning it on or off you've sort of budgeted it in the costings of the business so there's no there's no real excuse and those that seem to turn it on and off are the ones that probably don't have a handle on their numbers as well because they don't know what they should be spending or where they should be spending it so I know I went off on a little bit of a tangent there so I'm going to try and bring it back back into the to the key points here that we're talking about. Yeah, the deep on marketing really isn't it because yeah again like I try to think how I can streamline it a little bit but again I'm trying to think now so the thing that goes quiet that's enjoyed that because I'm trying because we're under a bit of a tighter time frame on this this one so I'm trying to think about it so again we've marketing too many guys look at it as super binary like oh well if I'm putting a hundred pound in I want to get 200 pound out for example when it comes to marketing and they want to look at it from a very strict cashful perspective well I spent this much in this month but I got this much out was it worth it no I'll bin it off without looking at all of the other variables you've gained a new customer that's customer acquisition there are other jobs you know you might have heard the phrase foot in the door that's giving you a foot in the door to other realms within the property you then also going to get probably get some reviews from that customer the marketing is probably also going to grant you access to another review platform you know what I mean if you're on something like an orated people for example that is a high hitter on a google search of an individual business which also then displays your reviews loads of things that I've been spoke about many many times before of when it comes to marketing you cannot just look at it as one plus one equals whatever I've got from it can't I think on that note before you segue into what I think is going to be point number eight point number seven make a note market consistently I've stopped handy there because point number eight is think lifetime value not one-off jobs okay and this this fundamentally shifted everything for me you know when I started to look at what leads cost me I was doing it binary like you just said Andy you know I was looking at at the beginning I was looking at it's cost me 40 quid to get this lead I have to go to three of those leads to get a sale so it costs XYZ when I started to look at the lifetime value over a longer period and what I mean by so so for those that don't know I'm sure I've discussed it before but not everyone listens to every episode so I'll try and rattle through this quickly lifetime value is an estimate okay so it's not perfect but ultimately if you acquire a customer hope you should not only acquire it for that one job that person should then become a customer of your business and use you again in the future I like to use a five to seven year timeframe to estimate what that person might be worth to me okay so in a very easy example let's use a boiler service or let's say an electrical check one or the other you know something that's like you go in you do that job right if you've done that job right and you've implemented everything that we've already spoke about that customer should then come back year after year okay so let's say use round numbers let's say that job is worth £100 and you can do that for them five years in a row okay that value of that customer is now £500 okay so if it cost me £40 or £100 but I know that if I do my job right on average I'm going to get at least five more jobs out of that person at the very least you know I'm underestimating there then you can look at your marketing and you can look at the costs and the runnings of your business in a completely different life because you will be willing to spend a far more far amount more to acquire that customer if you embrace the lifetime value and yes in a smaller business it is definitely more difficult to have that longer term view but of the businesses that I believe succeed in the trades industry they are the ones that are looking at lifetime value because that ultimately is the secret source it's why the big companies can spend millions you know on marketing look at box for example they know that their model would acquire market share acquire that customer based on a lifetime value that they're going to get repeat work other services etc etc so they could blow all of our small companies out of the window because we couldn't afford to keep up with them so there are limitations to what you can spend on it but fundamentally understanding what lifetime value is and stop looking at it as a one-time job for a customer will revolutionise your business would you agree Andy? Yeah in every way I will agree because again that's that's always been our hyper focus and it's not it's very difficult to not look at the numbers that are writing from to say your monthly revenue for X number of jobs it's super difficult to look try and look beyond that because again guys are generally just fighting fires a month by a month in most trade businesses but again that it's intrinsic to also being selective of the work that you take on what we said a little bit earlier I mean you absolutely need to try and focus on that because it has so many knock on effects you know the angle that your business is going how you progress in forward the marketing side of things that we've just spoke about there's a lot of variables that you really need to think about and if you want to even if you just want a steady bit of a growth in business you absolutely need to focus on that you can just look at a job per day job per job, which again comes down to the quality of the job that you do in as well. Like we had, so one of our lads was one of our newer lads was out on the site the other day doing a service on the boiler and this customer had someone in while he was there to fit a shower screen and he found it so funny, he rang me and video called me, right? So you like this one. The customer had a P-shaped bath. The guys have turned up and fitted a flat shower screen straight shower screen, right? So it looked shit for a start and he's like, "Have you seen this?" Like, he's video calling me, like, "What the fuck's that?" But then on top of that, they left all the rubbish on the landing. Oh God. Been bag full of rubbish, a metal trim that they'd folded up and just put on the floor and then the box off the screen and got that customer back to them all. Yeah, 9 million years. So they're just like the opposite to what we're talking about. They're absolutely not looking at lifetime wise, so it's not just the job, the kind of what you do, how you have the backend, etc. It's also the time on site, which most guys really pride themselves on. So yeah. Yeah, I agree. So key point number eight, think lifetime value, not one-off jobs, really is fundamental. Moving on to number nine, so the last point of today's session, which is upgrade the man, not just the business. And what I mean by that is, you know, you've got to be looking after yourself fundamentally. You can't do any of what we've spoke about today in previous episodes. If you're not focusing it on your sleep, your health, your fitness, your own mental health and headspace that you've got, because if any of those are out, guess what? Your performance is just going to dip and guess when that, when your own output declines, the business affects your family life gets affected. You cannot scale a business or even improve a business if your life is in chaos, whether it's health mindset, whatever it is, it fundamentally leads you to bad decisions. If you're burnt out and you're stressed and you're not healthy. So looking after yourself physically, obviously everyone knows what they should be doing. If you don't spend a bit of time researching basics of health and fitness, but we should all be moving more and eat in less, you know, they're the general root, like rules of trying to keep a healthy body, but don't neglect what's up here, you know, the biggest bit of the biggest asset that you'll ever own sits right between your temples here, which is your brain, okay? And your mindset, the mindset is ultimately what is going to determine if you actually listen to today and go and take action and try and change that mindset and look at things in a different way or whether you're just going to go back to that comfy blanket, you know, of doing what you've been doing for all these years, you know, hustling around in that hamster wheel. I know we obviously, you know, mindset and everything and health and all of that is a huge topic for us enough of the tools of alliance because it fundamentally is the fuel that the business needs. So if you're, if you can't pour in good energy into the business, it's going to fail or at least slow down. What's your thoughts on all that Andy? Yeah, so obviously we did the longer one on mindset the other week, but this is, again, I'm going to struggle to put all my thoughts into a small window of this, but I personally think mindset is almost everything and this is probably one of the most problematic areas in the trades and construction industry because it's something that many guys really, really struggle with because it is often born from a lack of self-worth. You know, I've said before, I spent some time operating them within a property-based industry and that's the opposite end of the scale. There's a lot of arguably overconfident people, but the mindset of side of things and when it comes to pricing and being willing to really push out of the comfort zone, you know, these are people who are quite happy to jump on social media, you know, lots of, you know, videos and content and with themselves at the helm and unfazed by it, which again is just mindset based because they're like, well, this is what I want to achieve. I'm not going to let my own being a bit shy, standing the way, no, this is what I want to achieve and it's all all the various, you know, ins and outs of that is generally born from mindset. But yeah, if you're not dialing up upstairs, then you're not going to achieve the physical outs, you know, outside or whatever it is, side of things, but it just extends into everything, you know, your goals, what you want to achieve, your pricing structure, how your business looks, how you talk to people, whether it's customers or your peers, your family, it's, yeah, it's such like, and you're right, as you say, we really, really push on this heavily, heavily, sorry, within off the tools and it's going to be a really big part of obviously the higher level mastermind that we're going to be implementing next year with a huge, huge, because what the beauty of once you elevate your business and you get the admin staff we were talking about before, you get your pricing structure right, you get the types of work that you're saying yes to dialed in, it will start to free up that personal head space to then think a little bit more actually. I never really thought I could get it, but now I'm starting to see an actual business form. What can I do with my life and my free time to really get this to something that I've never really expected I could achieve it and create something better for my family? My kids' future is always this common thing, I want to leave something for my kids. Well, if you don't change some shit, you're not going to get there. If you are still on the tools at 65, because you have to be, are you going to be leaving anything for your kids? Are you going to be knowing me? It's like, yeah, it's a really deep, nuanced topic is mindset, but to me it's the foundation. Yeah, 100% agree. Well, I've thoroughly enjoyed today's podcast. I hope you guys have just a quickly recap on the nine key points that we think that will help revolutionize your business. It is ultimately raising your prices, picking a lane and sticking to your strengths, building some level of recurring revenue into your business, having solid, reliable systems that become the heartbeat of the business, getting it paid up front where possible and locking in a paper trail to everything that you're doing, hiring, admin, leveraging your time ultimately, marketing consistently, thinking about the lifetime value of a customer and ultimately upgrading yourself as a person. I believe, and I know from the data and from the lads that I've worked with over the years, that if you take action in each one of those points today, you cannot fail to see improvements. So please take this information, get out there and ultimately, nothing changes unless you take action. So please take action on this. If you're still a little bit unsure on how to do anything, what to do next, you know, me and Andy are here. We're here to help. You know, you can contact us on the emails that are on the screen now. You can go to the website, even better. You can become a member of off the tools Alliance where you get to work with me and Andy, you know, week after week, month after month and start to implement on all of this knowledge that you're gaining. On that note, I'm done. Andy, you finished. I've got anything to say. I've never finished, but you know, say that for the next one. It's been a pleasure, lads, and I look forward to seeing you all soon. Have a good one.