#15 Brianna Michelle on finding her voice beyond sexual assault - From Trauma To Triumph with Wade Robson and James Safechuck

Intro Trigger warning This podcast contains discussion of emotional, physical and sexual abuse and includes explicit language. Listener and viewer discretion is advised. Speaker 2 Please remember to like, subscribe, and rate on your favorite podcast platform. Speaker 3 If I forgot one little thing, they're like, OK, well, tell us the story again, because you didn't mention that the first time. You know what I mean? It's just like, how can I remember all these things when I just was almost strangled to death? I was kidnapped and I was raped. Speaker 1 Without healing, traumatic experiences can have an enormous impact on defining who we are and who we will become. Speaker 2 Wade Robson and myself James Safechuk are both survivors of childhood abuse. In this podcast, we're talking with survivors, trauma specialists, and advocates. Speaker 1 Highlighting the many resources available in order to inspire the brave Steps to starting or continuing the healing journey. Speaker 2 This is from trauma. Speaker 1 To Triumph. Hey everyone, welcome to our podcast From Trauma to Triumph with myself, Wade Robson, and James Safechuck. Speaker 2 Our guest today is Brianna Michelle, who's the founder and CEO of Voices Beyond Assault, a nonprofit organization dedicated to revitalizing and empowering the lives of survivors of sexual violence across the globe. Brianna was sexually abused as a child and then while in college was abducted, beaten and raped. This experience woke up a sleeping giant within her that declared no more to sexual violence, and she began using her voice as power. Speaker 1 Brianna is on a mission to bring more awareness to the epidemic of sexual assault, tackle taboos, and give a voice to women, men, and children around the world. We hope you're inspired by Brianna's unwavering courage and relentless determination. Her journey from a survivor to a beacon of hope and strength reminds us all of the power of resilience and the impact of using our voices for change. Speaker 4 Brianna, it's so good to have you here. Speaker 3 Yeah, So good to see you again, Wade, and so nice to meet you, James. Speaker 2 Nice to meet you as well, yes? Speaker 4 Thanks for taking the time. So maybe we could start at the top, start at the beginning. Growing Up with Addiction Like, I'm just curious, you know, where'd you, where'd you grow up? Speaker 3 I grew up in Seattle, WA with amazing single mother. My dad was around, but he wasn't around in my life, you know, due to his own personal addictions and things of that nature. You know, he was just in and out, in and out, in and out. And then eventually my mom shut that down because, you know, it's, it's like, you know, I'm going to allow you to love your dad for who he is. However, you know, you have to have structures and boundaries with people, right? You know, his addiction was was becoming a real issue with him coming to visit and being a part of my life. So he will come when he was on his high versus coming and having the respect to be around me sober. So she kind of shut that down at an early age. But when I got to understand what was really going on with him and his addiction, and she always mentioned to me, it's not that he doesn't love you, he's just sick right now. When I got of age like 11-12, she kind of explained to me a few things about what addiction looks like and all of that. And, you know, I start to see him differently. You know, I still, there was still so much admiration and love for him because he's such a good spirit. Like he was such a good spirit. It's just, you know, he had he had his issues and his traumas and his things that I learned about also in life. But, you know, that affected me in ways that I, I didn't realize until I was older. But you know, outside of that, my mom did such a good job. I never wanted or wanted for anything. I did always did good in school. I had really good friends. Junior year my grandfather passed away, which was like, that was the father figure that I had like, you know, for the summer times and, and Christmases and the phone calls all the time. You know, my grandfather was my rock, you know, and he transitioned when I think it was my sophomore junior in high school. And, you know, that actually made me really want to connect more with my father. You know, I'm like, no, I have to make this. I have to make this work whether he wants it or not. And so I used to find him in Seattle at certain places because he, because of where he was in life, like he would be in certain places in certain areas in Seattle. So I used to go and, you know, pull up on him and be like, Hey, I just want to say hi, I love you. He's at the store and candies or juice and like sit somewhere, you know. So I, I really created that relationship because, you know, although he had his issues, he's still my, he's still my dad. I still like everybody always say to you, love that man. You didn't even know him. I was like, but I knew him, you know, anytime I was around him, I knew he was my father. The free spirit, the, the communicating to everyone being super friendly. That was my dad. I definitely got those characteristics from him. You know, he was a veteran as well, you know, and then when he got out, you know, he just kind of humbled in to things life, you know, I just love that man. He was he he was great outside of his issues, you know, and my mom was just such a soldier for, you know, really setting back and just being like, it's not about me. It's about what the relationship you and your father has. You know, she was really, that was really special and I still thank her for that because she allowed me to really have my own relationship with him. Speaker 2 Yeah, sons of a strong woman. Speaker 3 Yeah, she is. She's very strong. She's very loving. She took care of a lot of my friends growing up, you know, with some of my friends that were either kicked out of their home or, you know, had issues or didn't have a place to stay. They stayed with us for months. You know, she always took care of everybody. She was the nurturer and the provider, you know, and she just exuded a lot of love, but a lot of firmness, too. Yeah. So she she was really great. That's my best friend. Speaker 4 That's beautiful. Do do you, like you mentioned in teenage years, you sort of started would go find him, go find your dad, try and make those connections. Finding Connections Do you remember when you were, you know, even younger, before teenage years? Do you remember like a, a, a feeling of longing at all for, for more of a relationship with him, for more of a connection with him? Speaker 3 Yeah, I have a vivid 1. So he came over one day and, you know, my mom, he was on his high and my mom was like, you guys can stay here, you know, you can stay here at the house and talk or whatever. But she was like 10 minutes, 5 or 10 minutes, I can't remember because he was just all over the place. And, you know, we were talking outside and, you know, you know, just laughing and joking because he was really playful. And he was just like, oh, I'm going to come back next week. And he was like, let's go fishing. And I was like, oh, my God, we can go fishing. And he was like, yeah, because he used to fish. You know, he actually, that's where him and my mom went in the last, where they met in Wisconsin. But then they moved to Seattle because he was working on the ships in Alaska. So I was like, oh, my God, yeah, you're going to go fishing. So the day that he said he was going to come, I had my put on my favorite flower little outfit. And I remember sitting on the couch waiting for him. And then I woke up the next day for him not being there and him not showing up. And I remember waking up and I remember crying and I remember my mom saying to me, you know, it's OK, he still loves you. He just probably had a lot of things happen going on. And I just remembered that I was like, I just want him to be around, you know, or at least keep his word, you know? And from then it was just a lot of I, I think from that moment was when I really was like, OK, I would love. I wish I had a dad. Do you know what I mean? That was just there. Speaker 4 Do you think that like that lack of connection with your father played any role in your journey? The Impact of Not Having a Father Like it with with boys, with other boys and romance and that sort of thing. Speaker 3 1000 percent 1000% I would say there is something to say about not having a father in your life that can can foster these emotions of feeling wanting to feel needed, wanting to feel loved, wanting to feel protected, wanting to have men affection. I found myself really attracting more people that were like my father to like the fast talkers and, you know, things of that nature. I, I found myself in that lane, you know, for sure. You know, I never understood what that love from a man was. You know, it really, although he gave me love when we were together, it wasn't consistent. It was never consistent. So it, it did affect like my relationships and what I thought I was supposed to have or what I wanted and my needs and allowing things that I probably wouldn't have allowed if I did have a father that showed me the correct way to be loved by a man, if that makes sense. You know, and you know, just to be honest too, like there, you know, I was a molester when I was younger as well. And, you know, I think that that also played a part in the man and the relationships that I dealt with as well. And I think that if I would have had my father, I would have felt more protected. And that wouldn't happened in my in my mind, because that can happen with you, whether you have a father or not. Honestly, however, I felt like if my father was around, that would have never happened, you know? Speaker 2 How were you able to kind of figure out that you were going for your father type? How to figure out if you’re going for your father type of love Like often times people do that, but it's subconscious and they don't realize that they're going for their father. Speaker 3 When I really started dating my boyfriend now, you know, he really showed me this patient love and this kind love and this genuine love that I've never really experienced. And so a lot of times I'm like, what is this a game? Like what's happening here? It's like, slow down, pause a little bit. You know, I was really resistant to it because it was so intense and it was so intentional, you know, that I was like, oh, wow. So I'm so used to this type of love that it's really hard for me to accept this, you know? So honestly, within these last three or four years, Oh wow. Speaker 2 And it's, it's interesting too, how like this, this new love and affection was a healthier one, but yet it feels because it's new, it's uncomfortable. And you're like, what's going on here? Even though it's it's better, right? It's. Speaker 3 Healthy. It's healthy. Yeah. It was very healthy because a lot of the other relationships are very long distant, long distance, like somebody would be, you know, somewhere across the world. I'll just travel to see. We'll have fun. And then, you know, it's like on the phone here and there, you know, it's like those type of relationships, which was really just like my dad, you know, like my dad would, you know, I'll see them every once in a while. But when we were together, we had a blast. And then those moments that we weren't together, it's like I had to, you know, just kind of wait for that next moment for us to connect again, you know, and I definitely found myself doing that more and more. So to have, you know, someone that just is like, I'm actually going to stay here with you and I'm going to show you this. I'm going to be consistent with this love. I'm going to be patient with you. I'm going to have conversations with you. We're going to, you know, I'm going to show you how much I love you, even though you're assisting me. And that was that was kind of a we actually had a conversation. I was like, you know, you scared me a little bit because I didn't know if you were crazy. But you know, I deserve all of that. You know, I, I deserve all of the love that I was given, you know, and that I am being, you know that I'm receiving now. Speaker 4 That's a big moment to come to that deserving piece, right? To, to, to, to, to know, to realize. No, I deserve this. Yeah. Speaker 3 Yeah. Speaker 4 Maybe we should go back a little bit 1st and then like, yeah, so, you know, you mentioned being molested as a child and to the degree that you're comfortable, if you're open to telling us any more about that, what happened? Being molested as a child It was, I was around six and, you know, it was a family member, uncle, and you know, it was me and an older cousin that he used to molest, but it was when I was visiting my grandparents. So he actually lived with my grandparents. My grandparents took care of him. He was in a wheelchair. And you know, and because of that, it was like, oh, you know, let me help you, let me get you food, let me help you out. And I think that that was where he was able to take advantage of of us, you know, and I obviously started with my older cousin and I remember him, her bringing me, you know, we're in the room talking to him and all this stuff. And then it turned into, you know, things that were sexual, you know, unfortunately. But being six years old, how do you understand what's happening? You know, how do you acknowledge what's happening when it's like, oh, it's our little secret? It's because the way you look at me and, and I think about it now, it's just disgusting. It was really disgusting, you know, so your. Speaker 2 Uncle said figuring out how he kind of explained the abuse to you or or set it up so he said it's because how you looked at him. Speaker 3 How? How I looked at him. Speaker 2 Right. So putting out the blame on you right of. Speaker 3 Course, yes, yeah. You know, predators have very manipulative ways to make you make you feel like it's normal for one. And that is something that you want as well. You know what, at six years old, there's nothing sexual that I want at all. I want to be a child, you know, I want to be out playing and doing those things. You know, looking back, it's just a really just uncomfortable, disgusting, do not think about it time that a grown man can take advantage of children. But it happens all the time, you know? Speaker 2 Do you remember how he explained for you not to tell someone? Do you remember how he set that up? It was. Speaker 3 Just, you know, our little secret. If you don't, you know, don't tell anyone because if you do, then they're going to be upset. You know, they're, you know, they just don't need to know. It's just, it was just our secret. It's our secret. And, you know, honestly, thinking about that time, I didn't know what was happening. I had no idea what was happening. I thought that you're, you know, you're supposed to listen to adults. You're supposed to do what adults tell you to do. You know, we never had that conversation piece, you know, about if someone touches you here, here, here. Oh, no, dear. And that's something that I implement in my organization too, and training, you know, just like to be able to tell kids to be comfortable, to understand what their body is and knowing that people can't touch them any type of way and if they feel any but uncomfortable to speak about it. I've never had those conversations, you know, I think that, you know, because you never expect your children to have to experience that and then you don't. Maybe there is something of not wanting to open up, open them up to knowing dangers of the world, you know, But I never had those conversations. So I never knew what not to do, what to do. I just knew to listen to your parents or listen to grown-ups and listen to, you know, have respect for them and do what they say. And that's, you know, really what I did. And being so young, just, I was looking at a picture the other day of me being like, I think 7:00 or 8:00. And I was like, wow, like just what I experienced before that, you know, or during that time, it's just like, wow, I'm just such an innocent child. And then that was ripped away from me during that time, you know, I really was. Speaker 4 Do you remember you? You and your older cousin that this was happening to as well. Do you remember if you guys ever talked about anything about it, like what was going on? Speaker 3 So there was a time when I went to Wisconsin to visit actually, 'cause I have an older sister, my mom's, my mom's daughter, older sister Tasha. I went to go visit her and my cousin came over and we just looked at each other and we hugged each other and started crying. And we never talked about it. You know, it was never like a conversation, but we looked at each other and we just said that she looked at me. She said she was proud of me. And I looked at her and I was like thank you. And then I think that topic was coming, you know, But we just looked at each other and just held each other and hugged each other. And, you know, we both said, you know, we're proud of each other and that we were sorry, you know, that we had to experience certain things. But it was never something we've really talked about more than that, you know, because it's just not something easy to talk about. And it's just it's really, you know, it really changes your life. You know, you don't realize it, you know, being young and just like growing. But once you hit that adolescent age, I think start really affecting you and you start, you know, when you start dating and stuff what you accept, what you allow you know to happen because this happened to you. So you think it's supposed to be this is normal and. Speaker 4 Yeah. Do do you remember how long it went on like it was at that one particular summer? Speaker 3 So it happened over, you know, 3 summers or two summers, something like that. The first time Brianna told someone And something you never told anybody or for a long time you didn't tell anybody. Yeah. Speaker 3 For a long time I didn't tell anybody, not at. Speaker 2 All, who did you tell for the first time outside of your cousin? Speaker 3 Cousin who knew my mother, I told her. And when I was after my rape, I told her. Speaker 4 OK, You went to this College in Atlanta. Speaker 3 Yes, I went to Atlanta University and made really good friends and had a really good time. And my sophomore year I decided to one of my best friends decided to transfer to Georgia State. She called me and she was like, oh man, come and hang out with us. You know, it's been a long time. And I was like me, like I don't feel like going out, like my hair is green, like I'm trying to get this color together. I said, I can't, you know, And she was like, Brianna, I haven't seen you in forever. So I was like, OK, whatever, I'll go out. And so I put on my jeans. I had like a hoodie and I had my Timberland boots on and I went out to to hang out with them. And they were at this club called Coyote Ugly. Which is like in Buckhead, Atlanta. And we went there and, you know, we were having a great time hanging out everything. And, you know, they were, there's drinks moving around. I wasn't really in the drinking space. So me and this guy, Jason decided to, you know, like, OK, you know, let's go get something to eat because both of us are really sober. But, you know, and then I was like, you could just walk them to the car. They can go get their car and then I'll meet you closer to the restaurant. And he was like, OK, cool. And he walked them to their car. And I went to go to my car, went to move it. And as I'm parallel parking, kind of bumped into the car behind me and, you know, when you kind of tap a car, not really hit it when you're parallel parking. And so I'm getting out playing on my lip gloss and this guy was like, you know, bitch, you just hit my car. Oh, blah, blah, you know, just talking. I'm like, Oh my God, like, I'm sorry. Like I didn't, you know, nothing was wrong with this car. Nothing. And you know, I get out and I'm looking at it. I'm just like, OK, nothing's wrong with your car. I was like, but I'm, you know, I'm sorry. And he was like, you know, give me, you know, you know, I was like, I have insurance. You know, I'm like trying to explain to him I have insurance, like, you know, just all the conversation because he was pretty irate. So I'm just, you know, kind of looking around. And normally Buckhead is really busy, you know, And this night it was, it wasn't as busy as it normally is, you know, so I'm kind of looking around because he's irate and I'm just like, I have insurance. He's like, no, give me like, you know, if you got 100 or $200.00. And I was like, I don't have any money. Like, you know, I'm a broke college student. Like I don't have any money. And then I look over and there was like three other people, I guess that he was with or that were in the car. And so, you know, at this point, I'm getting a bit jitters because I'm like, OK, what's about to happen? Like, you know, like, you want money from me? I'm telling you, I have insurance. I don't have money. And, you know, you just keeping this conversation going, just talking. And, you know, there's just a lot of anxiety, a lot of things happening in me. I'm like, I don't know what to do at this point. And there's a guy that comes across the street and he was like, yo, what's going on? You know, like, dude, you need to calm down. And I was like, thank God, you know, And it was interesting because when I looked at him, he had his hat really low. And then when he looked up, like his eyes, I remember his eyes being really red. And I was like, oh, I think that's a little crazy. And it's like, but you know, I was like, thank, you know, he's helping me. He's helping me and you know, so the guy I was like, I said, OK, look, I said can we just do where I'll meet you, you know, tomorrow or something in a public place when you're like sober and I can give you my insurance information or we can work something out to where you can get your car fixed or you can get whatever money you're looking for. It was just a weird situation and the guy end up calming down and the guy that was helping me was like, you know, I think you should move your car. He said, because if you, you know, come out of the club, he's still here, you know, you don't know really what he's on or whatever. His friends. And I was like, yeah, you have a point, you know, so I definitely don't want to come back to see him again or be parked in front of him anymore. So he was like, there's a parking garage that's like around the corner or whatever, and that's OK. So I drove to the parking garage and I went to go park my car. Put on some lip gloss. I'm putting, you know, I'm about to get out the car and when I open my door, his hands around my throat like. Speaker 4 This is the guy that that was, you know, supposedly helping. Speaker 3 You, the guy that was helping me, his hands around my throat and all I'm doing at this point is fighting for my life. And the whole time he's choking me like bitch, you're going to die tonight, you dumb bitch and choking me, choking me. And I remember just looking at him and I'm just like, you know, trying to fight because he's definitely squeezing my throat. I can't breathe. It was all of everything that you see on television, you know, and the the situation that you would never expect yourself to be in. And, you know, he's strangling me and choking me and saying all the things that I'm going to die tonight. I'm a dumb bitch and all the things. And I just remember, you know, me not being able to fight him anymore. Like, you know, I'm trying to pull his hands off of me and I remember not being able to fight him anymore. And I remember peeing on myself. And I my mom was a nurse and she always, you know, I remember her mentioning it to me when people pass like normally they pee and they defecate on themselves. And the only thing that I was thinking I was like my mom, my mom, my mom, like, you know, I was like my mom cannot handle like, you know, my mom couldn't, you know, it's the only person I was thinking about in my mind. And I swear this is something I still believe in. My grandfather was very present in that space, but I was able to like grab his hands and it felt like I lifted him up. I doubt if I lifted him up, but I was able to get his hands from around my neck. And I felt like I just completely sucked in the world, you know, just fucked all the air in. And then he, you know, attacked me again, start strangling me again, start hitting me and biting me and all the things. And I remember, again, not being able to fight. And when I woke up, I was in my passenger seat. He was in the driver's seat. We're driving on a highway. I'm all the way laid back in my passenger seat, and he's smoking cigarettes. The music's blasting and, you know, obviously the fear, the not knowing any, what's about to happen. And I was, I was in and out of consciousness, it felt like, you know, And he raped me a few times in between. I remember him pulling up to a gas station. I remember him pulling over on the side of the road doing something to me. And you know, we were driving for I mean, I was just so in and out, you know, it was then what did the nurse say? It was shock. My body was in shock. And it was about he kept me for about 7 hours. And I'll never forget we were my seats all the way back and I had clothes all back in my car like a girl. And he would take, he took all the clothes and he put them on me. And remember, I was driving through like on this like bumpy, bumpy gravel. And it's daytime at this point. Like the sun's out. You know, it's just because all this happened around like midnight, you know, and the sun's out at this point and we're driving. I just see these apartment buildings. And my only thought was like, Oh my God, what, what now? You know, like what's about to happen now? Because it's like I couldn't move. I couldn't, I couldn't say anything the entire time these all these hours, like there was just nothing coming from me. My body was just felt frozen. And I remember I'm laying there and he's like looking at me and he was like, you know, if you are a hoe, you should have told me a hoe. He's having like this whole conversation that obviously just mental. You know, if you were a hoe, you should have told me a hoe. Why the fuck you let them *** do that to you? And he's just has talking of his banter and you know, I'm kind of looking at him and like, like, I know it's you. I remember every pour in your fucking face, you know, when you were strangling me, you know. And then he lifts. He unclenched my teeth because I guess when you're asphyxiated, your teeth clenched to your tongue. So I guess the whole time, I don't know if my teeth were clenched my tongue, but he opened my mouth and he poured beard on my throat. And I remember, you know, kind of, you know, and he took the seat up and he was like, fucking look at yourself, look at yourself. And he pulled the, the mirror down and I looked at myself and my face was like this big, like my eyes were bloodshot of red and bulging out of my face. And there was bite marks. I was bruised. And I, I tried so hard not to cry. And I just said, Brianna, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry. Like try to get out of this situation, you know, and he was like, look at yourself. You're like you, you know, like, look what this fuck is like. Why would you let them? You know? He was just all over the place. He was saying so many things that I just to talking to myself. I was just like, I need all the strength I could. And I was like, I don't remember what happened. Like, please, I don't remember what happened. I don't know anything. Thank you so much for helping me, you know, and I'm like trying to give him all the praise because he was enraged, like enraged. And so I'm like, I'm, you know, I'm sorry, I don't, you know, I don't remember what happened. Like, please, I need to go back to school. I have finals. Like, you know, please, like I just need to get out of here. And he was like, you don't remember. You don't remember shit that happened. You don't remember nothing that happened. And he's like just screaming in my face spinning, you know, it's just, oh, it was a lot happening. And it felt like forever, you know, of like trying to figure out like where he, you know, what he's about to do. Do I jump and run out of the car? Do I, you know, I didn't know what to do. And so I was just like, you know, kept trying to just say, I just don't understand. I don't know. I don't know what's happening. I just need to get back to school. And he was like, you know, he climbed on top of me and he was like, this would be your thank you to me. And he put his stuff in my mouth and, you know, it was like, yeah, you're welcome. And he got back in the driver's seat and he was like, well, let's go in the house, you know, so you can at least take a shower. And I, I just knew one thing. I'm not going in. I'm not going anywhere with this guy. Nowhere. And I was like, please, I really need to get back to school. So I'm begging him to please second by the school. I have a final. I really need to, you know, finals. Like, I don't remember anything. And he asked me for my number. My he'd opened my glove compartment. He took all, everything that was in there, which is my insurance cards, and he took everything out of my wallets. And he was like, you know, make sure you don't remember anything. He's I'll stay in contact with you, you know, and he's, you know, and I look at it, he was like threatening me in a space, but not, I don't, I don't know what I don't know. And yeah. So all of that happened. And Fast forward, he ended up driving and dropping himself off at a Greyhound station, which was not too far from the Atlantic, the Atlanta schools where we were. And I remember him dropping himself off and he was like, I'll give you a call. I'll call you to check up on you or whatever. And I was like, OK, you know, just anything to get him to feel as comfortable as possible. I'm like, OK, you know, thank you, you know, And he gets out the car and I remember just, like, still sitting there and just watching him walk away. And when he hit the corner, I just remember hopping out and get in the car and like, driving. And then I pulled over and I just, like, completely broke down. And I was like, what do I like? How do I go to my friend's dorm with my face like this? What do I say? Happened to me. How do I, like, I'm not going to tell him I was right. Like, I'm not going to tell him what happened, you know, at all. You know, I just didn't know what to do, you know? So I had to go to her dorm. So I'm trying to wait around until she had class. And so Spellman has security guards at their gate. So when I went to the gate, I just put my hoodie on and I was like, oh, I'm going to, you know, Kimberly's dorm. I'm staying with her. They let me through. He asked, was I OK? And I was like, yeah, I'm OK, you know, But I really wasn't keeping eye contact. I was acting like I was doing stuff with the car and whatever. And then I went to go to the dorm thinking and expecting that she would be at school or in class. And I get up there and as soon as I'm open the door, she's, you know, she's grabbing her bag to walk out. And then she looked at me. She said, Brianna, what the fuck happened to you? Like where were you last night? You know, well, first of all, what the fuck happened to you? And I was like Kim, like, I just need to get in the shower. I'm just going to go to school. I'm just going to get in the shower. And she, I guess she put two and two together. She was like, you're not getting in the fucking shower. I'm taking you to the hospital, she said. So let go and you know, and when we got to to the car, I kind of told her, well, I told her when we were in the dorm, like she kept asking, she kept asking us to shower. And I was like, something happened. And then she was like, we're going to the hospital and we went to the hospital and on the way I told her, you know, that what happened. And then we got to the hospital. Did the rape kit detectives came. I asked her, please don't call my mother. I was the one thing I was like, please don't call my mom. And obviously is the first person she called. My mom was in the first plane smoking to Atlanta. And yeah, so we did the rape kit and the detectives, you know, talking to the five different detectives about the story. And it was, it was very traumatic and, you know, life changing. Speaker 4 Gosh, my gosh, Brianna, I am so sorry. Speaker 2 So sorry. Speaker 4 I just obviously can't imagine. Seems silly to say, but can't imagine. My gosh. And then I mean, how how's the experience with the police like going through that right after all of that trauma? Speaker 3 It felt it was kind of traumatic too, you know, because it's like you have to constantly explain the story. You have to write the story, you have to talk to someone else. And at first you have to tell the nurse what happened. They do the rape kit and then the detectives come and there's, you know, it's a bunch of men, you know, asking what happened. And then, you know, there's a thing of like, Are you sure? Like it was rape? And, you know, did you know this person? Are you sure you didn't know this person? There was so many trigger questions that I felt, you know, I think I really feel like the Police Department and detectives really need to have a bit more bedside manner, empathy and compassion for survivors of sexual and domestic violence because to be physically violated in your body and then to be questioned. So I mean, I know they're doing their job, but there has to be better ways to ask questions. There has to be more coof in understanding what somebody just experienced with their body so brutally that there has to be better ways to ask questions. So that was that was also very triggering and very frustrating as well. And I do remember them, you know, searching my car and looking through my car. Obviously I defecated in my car, all the things in the car and they found a bag like a baggie of obviously cocaine or some type of drug. It was a white substance. And they asked or is this yours? And I was like, no, it's not like what is that? Do you know? Like what? I don't even know what that is like. I wasn't even drinking at the time, let alone knowing what you know that was. And they were like, Are you sure this is not yours? Are you sure this is not yours? It was just a lot. It was a lot happening with the police and detectives that, you know, made me really feel uncomfortable. And I do feel a lot of times, or what I'm learning because of VBA, is that, you know, our stories aren't really taken as serious as black women, you know. So there was, you know, all these questions of Are you sure you didn't know him? Like, have you ever had any type of sex like that? Like where, you know, and I'm like, where I want to die? No, like, you know, it's just a lot of questions and things that I think we're very uncouth, you know? But then there was one particular detective who really, really seen me, you know, and he really made sure that he gave me his number, his contact information. So. And I was like, I just don't. I didn't want to talk about it a lot, You know, I just felt like I kept repeating the same thing over and over and over again. And then I had to write it down. And if I forgot one little thing, they're like, oh, OK, well, tell us the story again because you didn't mention that the first time. You know what I mean? It's just like, how can I remember all these things when I just was almost strangled to death? I was kidnapped and I was raped, you know, like it was it was a lot. So, you know, there is, I do sympathize with a lot of survivors that sometimes just going through that process or just like, I don't even want to do it, you know, because that's kind of where I was. But my mom, you know, my friend was like, Nope, you need to tell them everything. You need to, you know, make sure this happens. And I do thank them for that because I do feel like I did kind of take my power back once, you know, once the process started moving. And I was like, OK, good. Because I don't want him to do this to anybody else, you know, because I'm sure it wasn't his first time doing it to someone. And I'm definitely damn sure it wouldn't have been his last time if I didn't, you know, feel like I did my part. Speaker 4 So did they find the guy? Speaker 3 Yeah, they found him three years later. He was in jail in Miami or in Florida. I'm not sure what city specifically but I think it was Miami and he was in jail and they did ADNA before he got out and it matched the rape kit perfectly. Speaker 2 Wow, first again I'm I'm just like heartbroken by this. So, so sorry. Speaker 3 No, I think I, I, I appreciate, you know, I, I always love when men, you know, at least understand the space that you know, or try to understand the space that I was in. So I, I really appreciate, you know, your stories, but it wasn't you, you know what I mean? And you know, and it wasn't anything. And I, I appreciate the, the concern and the love and all of that. But, you know, I, I met so many amazing men as you two, you know, you just sympathize and you understand, you have compassion for it. You believe me, You know what I mean? And that in itself is enough, you know. So thank you. Speaker 4 Oh. The Importance of Keeping Yourself Private There's so many, so many points in that story. One interesting thing is like how you know you're, you're just gone through this traumatic event and your immediate instinct is to like not let people know, right? Just kind of like, let me, let me hide it, right. And you didn't you know, your instinct wasn't to go to the police And how often that's used against women who don't immediately think, oh, I need to go, you know, get a rape kit test or, or I need it right. It's like that's that's used against them is like, well, why didn't you go there? Not taking in the realities of what it's like to be to have that traumatic experience. And now that's not everybody's first instinct is like, let's go to the hospital and get and and get further, further traumatized by the police and by the hospital. And I mean, your friend brought you there, but that, you know, you had your friend to sort of guide you. That's not wasn't your natural instinct. Speaker 3 No, it wasn't my natural instinct. It wasn't my natural instinct because one, I was like, what just happened like. And then I thought, what did I get myself into? You know, that's a whole nother thing too. And then I'm like, who's going to believe this, you know, or and then why did this happen to me? It was so many questions that I couldn't even think about the hospital. I couldn't think about the police. And then I'm like, what are my friends? And the thing? I don't want them to be hurt. I don't want them to be worried. It was all of the things, you know, it's been like I was shamed. I felt violent, like it was so many emotions that I can't even name enough words to explain. Speaker 2 And a lot of those thoughts you just named, were you blaming yourself? Like, what did I do? Wow, this is my fault, right? So now, And now I'm going to hurt the people I love by telling them, right? So you're just bringing it all on yourself. Your instinct doesn't to go to the police, right? And that's used against women so many times all the time, just all the. Speaker 3 Time, all the time and you know, and even to my instinct to take a shower, you know, because I felt disgusting, I felt gross. I felt like I wanted to peel my skin off, you know, I felt so disgusting. And it's, you know, it's and a lot of women do take showers. So when you take showers, it washes off the evidence and then, you know, if they later want to report, then the evidence is not there and then that's brushed under the rug. It's just, you know, the system has to change. You know, I just feel like I've experienced and know so many other women and men and non binary that I've experienced, you know, the justice system when it comes to rape and domestic violence and the way that they're treated, the way that they're dismissed, the questions that they're asked. You know, it makes you feel like it's your fault, you know, it makes you feel like you actually did do something wrong. Like, you know, so it's like, well, who if you don't believe me, then what's the point of me, like going forward with this? You know, it's so many uncouth things that happen in the system. Not saying that it's always that way because there are some people who have actually been, you know, had good experiences. But for me, it wasn't the best. And I think a lot of things could have been different. And I think that there needs to be a lot of compassion and understanding of the mental health space that you're in after physical trauma, you know, especially immediately after. And if people were feeling safe with the police and, you know, with, you know, being able to go to them directly, you know, if they heard more positive stories, then that wouldn't be an issue for them to go and speak to the police immediately after. But I think there's so much personal and physical damage that you're worried about figuring out what happened to you. And then also when you do tell somebody what their response is going to be, you know, because not everybody gets Kim's response, my best friend's response, you know, to, like, go to the hospital. You know, some people get really, really nasty responses. And that completely shuts them down. You know, there's so many levels. You know, I was just really blessed to have a friend. I was like, we're about to face this head on. Like you're not about to try to hide what you want to hide. Speaker 4 Yeah. So Speaking of mental and emotional health, you know, immediately proceeding like in the in the coming weeks and months after that experience, what was from what you can remember, what was going on for you internally. The aftermath of the attack It was a lot of pain, a lot of questions. You know, I felt like, you know, my mom was there with me for a few weeks and you know, I just, but I also felt so much love, you know, because my mom was there and my friends were coming to visit me. Like, you know, they would not leave me alone so that, you know, they would not leave me alone. It was, and I'm crying because it was so many emotions, but there was so much love and support. You know, I had so much love and support, so I felt safe, you know, I felt really safe. I felt protected. I felt supported and I felt loved. Even though internally I was, I was just wired, you know, I was wired with like frustration, anger. I was like, God, like, how could this happen to me again, you know, but in the most brutal way, you know, from one thing, you know, being young and being lost to, you know, being brutally raped by a stranger, you know, you start questioning like life and like what life is going to look like moving forward. Who am I going to be? Because I thought I was, you know, I was so excited about life. I was stepping into like womanhood and like doing my own thing in another city. And you know, I felt like even with everything that happened when I was younger that, you know, that left me and I was just growing and then boom, that happens. And it felt like it was a set back, you know, in my life. And I didn't know how to move forward. What I do remember the strongest was just the love and support of my friends and my family and them calling and, you know, my mom being there like right by my side and, you know, telling me that I was a victim in that moment in time. But now I survived that. So it's time to understand that, you know, I'm not a victim anymore and to move into that survivor space. Like even after it happened, I was like, you were victimized, you know, and in that moment you were a victim. She said, but you're here, you survived, you're alive. There is so much that you can do with this. Like she spoke those words unto me every day. You know, still to this day, you know, I talked to her three or four times a day. You know, it's just always positive. It's always love. So that's what I, I, I'm really grateful for. You know, I'm really, really grateful for having my mother and my friends there because I don't know what I would have did if I would have held that inside. Like I have no idea what person I would be right now. Speaker 2 Then you had the conversation with your mom and you told her about your childhood abuse right at that time. Telling My Mother About Childhood Abuse Yeah, I told her probably a few months after because I think I needed to really just get that out too, you know, because it wasn't something I can hold anymore. Like, now she knew about this thing. Like, why can't I tell her about this? And I did tell her, and she just got really quiet. She was like, I just really wish things would have been different and that there was a way for you to communicate. And she just said sorry, you know, and that she wished that there was more that she could have done as a mother, too. And I was like, you've done enough as a mother. Like you didn't do that, you know what I mean? You didn't expect that to happen. We trusted everybody in that household, you know, uncles, grandparents, you know, But I, I don't fault her for any of that. It's not her fault, you know. Speaker 4 So either one, your childhood experience, especially this rape experience, like you know, would understandably crush the spirit of anybody, right? Healing from Childhood Trauma To sit here with you today, you know, and to just see how bright you are right as a spirit and as a woman, and how strong you are and how driven with purpose you are. How did that happen? Speaker 3 You know, when I mentioned, you know, my mom mentioned the victimhood and being a victim at that moment and being a survivor, I'm alive and I survived that situation. There's so much that can do with it. I didn't understand it initially and I was like, now, thank you for the positive messaging, you know, but I still, you know, had so much to work through and, you know, my healing look like, you know, starting to drink and starting to do all the wrong things to subside the internal beast that was going on, you know, the internal emotions that was going on. So I started drinking, you know, my friends are drinking and everybody was happy. You know, I'm like, OK, maybe that will help me be happy because and you know, then you wake up and it's the same. It's even worse the next day, you know, But I had to keep up with that. So I started drinking a little bit too much. So there's a lot of negative that I did and I kind of left, you know, I stopped talking to a lot of my friends for a long time because I always felt like misery, love, company. And I felt like I was so up and down emotionally that I was using it against them and redirecting my anger and my frustration at the people that love me the most. So I, I did some of the negative things that, you know, sometimes people get involved in because they think it's a coping mechanism, you know, And I remember one day just waking up and I'm just like, no, I don't like the way I feel. I don't like the way I look when, you know, hungover. And this is not helping, you know, I really have to do better. You know, my healing was up and down. You know, some days I was happy, some days I was crying in a ball, some days I was pissed, you know, and then there was other times when I went out, I was really triggered by being out when I seen somebody that seemingly look like him or something like that because I was still in the state. And you know, it was a lot of emotions and even sometimes I used to question the days that I was happy. So I'm like, why am I so happy? You know, like, why am I having a good time, you know, But my friends were my friends. Eventually, after a few months of me like not talking to them, not answering their phone calls, call me and was like, no, like they all came to the house and was like, no, like, we're here for you and we're going to be with you throughout this whole thing, You know, especially while you're still here in Atlanta, you know, like you can't hide from us, you know, because that's, I think that's what I was doing. I was just hiding because I just didn't want to have to always be like, oh, how are you doing? You know what I mean? Because I didn't know how the hell I was doing, you know, I was struggling. But after about a year, I think I really got it together. I, I was just like, I have to push through this, you know, and, and then I started meeting people that experienced the same thing. You know, it's like, I'll tell people that, Brianna, why weren't you on campus for like, you know, a few months, what happened? I'll tell them I was raped. And they're like, oh, like, that happened to me, you know? And then I started meeting so many people that it happened to. And when I start meeting people that that happened to, I was like, oh, so this is not like a isolated type of situation. This is something that happens way more frequent than I ever imagined. I found some solace in knowing that I wasn't alone, you know, and knowing that it didn't just happen to me. And in that space, I was like, OK, why is this happening so much? You know, like, why is this so frequent? You know, so then it was all those questions and me doing research on rape and sexual violence and what that looked like and the statistics of, you know, people that it happened to and the minorities, especially black women. How often it happens, how much we never talk about it. We don't really share our stories because of not being believed because we're already over sexualized in the media. And there's so many questions of, you know, what do we do? What were you wearing? And all the things. So when I did realize how often people that I was meeting said that that happened to, I was like, OK, like this is this is crazy. Speaker 4 So maybe I don't know what the time span is, but if we kind of move towards, I mean, what led to, you know, you've created this incredible organization Voices Beyond Assault. Voices Beyond Assault So what? What led to that and inspired that? Speaker 3 So what led to that really was me meeting all the people that I met who had been violated. And I never forget there was a few of us. So, you know, we're all kind of in the same crew. They were friends of friends or people that were in class with me and things of that nature. And I remember, you know, asking them, I was like, you guys want to do like a movie night. You know, all the people that I knew that said that they were sexually assaulted and all of them didn't even really know each other, you know, So we all were together. And I, you know, kind of stood up and I was like, I know you guys know each other, but let's introduce, you know, everybody introduced themselves. And so everybody induced themselves. And I was like, you know, I really brought you guys together because I know we have one thing in common, you know, we've been violated sexually. And I just wanted to bring us together so we can do something together so we can kind of step away from reality and support each other in any type of way. And a lot of the girls are like, hey, first, where did you bring me? You know, like, why am I here? You know, and, and then once they once that really was just like, I really think that we need to find a space where we can support each other and like check on each other and see how we're doing. And, you know, everybody start kind of sharing what happened to them, whether they've told their stories to other people or not. They're people who really opened up about what happened to them for their first time, you know, after, you know, telling me like, oh, I've experienced something like that or not as bad, but there's no comparison to sexual trauma. Like, once you're physically violated, doesn't matter whether it's, you know, the way it happened to me or if it was a boyfriend, you know, that's actually it's up to you. We still experience that physical pain and that mental anguish because our body was violated. So, you know, that's how it really started. Like, you know, I started doing these like once every two weeks, like where we go to the movies, we'll go bowling, we'll have champagne nights, we'll have like, riding sessions. But it was really just us checking on each other and seeing how we're doing for that time. And one day somebody would be happy. The other day somebody would be in a rut. And we just left feeling loved and supported and heard and seen and felt. And we left with hugs. We left with thank yous. We left with, I'm looking forward to this week now, you know, And to me that just that made my heart warm, you know, And I was like, I really want to create a space where survivors failed, seeing her believe supported and have a space to heal together, you know, So that happened in Atlanta. And then I end up moving to New York after the trial. And when I moved to New York, it's the same thing. I met so many people because I then now start moving in purpose and everybody knew what happened to me. Anytime when you met me, you know, whether I was on a date, I'll make it clear, like I was in a very violent rape situation. So you got to be patient with me. You got to be, you know, you got to have. I'm setting some boundaries as well, you know, And so I started creating the same environments in New York where survivors are like, let's let's go do these things, you know, And so we started doing events and, and when I went to Cape Town, I spoke at a lot of schools and about what happened to me. And, you know, and that was healing for me. That was very healing for me to be able to talk and share my story and, you know, tell people to be open. If something happened to you to get that, try to take that back off, you know, because we always carry with that with great. It's like a book bag full of bricks that were just carrying around, you know, and, you know, 11 brick at a time, you know, peeling away the layers of what you're feeling and those emotions and being around people that support you. And so those, the programs that I was doing with my friends, the men and women and, you know, that were sexually assaulted, that was my healing spaces because it was kind of like a group therapy without therapists. We, you know, we were just able to share our story, share what we are and what we wanted out of life and be there to support that. And when I moved to Lai was like, OK, what's how do I do this? I was like, I have the nonprofit organization or profit organization. I was like, I'm not trying to make money from it. I'm just trying to really make sure that, you know, survivors really know that healing was good on them, you know, and that when we heal, we're not only better for ourselves, but we're better for our family, we're better for our friends, and we're better for the world, you know? And I think as much as they say hurt people, hurt people, healers heal as well. And I really wanted to do an organization, so I applied for my 5O1C3 in 2018. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I didn't know who was going to, you know, And I end up submitting it. And I remember getting the letter back from the IRS and I let it sit for two weeks. So I was like, what is this? They're not going to approve it. And I opened it. And I remember I was like, yes, so God is telling me this is what I should be doing. And then I didn't really know, you know, at that point what to do. So I was still doing the programming, like with friends and people that I knew. And then in 2020 when things shut down, I just started really noticing online how many people were speaking about sexual assault, the Me Too movement. People started talking coming out more with that. But then in 2020, I was like, a lot of people are living with their abusers. A lot of people are living in silence now, even more so, you know, with their stories and what they've been through. I was like, this is the perfect time to really start moving forward with VBA. You know, so VBA is to empower survivors and we do that by amplifying their voices. So we do a lot of survivor connect stories where we survivors share their stories, They talk about their, you know, a little bit of their stories, talk about their hailing journey, what they're looking forward in their lives and how VBA can support them and why they're a voice beyond us all. The importance of community So we're doing that. We're doing group therapies, we're doing yoga on Zoom, and we're doing Sound Fast on Zoom and BBB just kind of grew into a really beautiful organization that I'm really, really proud of. It's. Speaker 2 Beautiful and that community you built, you know, makes me think about before somebody comes and tells about their abuse. There's so much fear with telling somebody about your abuse, you know, and what you don't think about is some of the things you'll gain, which is this community of people, right? You're going to you're going to actually is going to open a door to other people who've been through what you've been through and you don't think about that before you say it. You're just thinking like, you know, you're thinking all the horrible things that are going to happen to you. If you say something, you know all the all the terrible things you don't, you're not necessarily thinking like, I'm going to gain all of these. People who understand me and there's people that are going to help me heal and who I can help them heal. This community you can build, which you've done this amazing job of like facilitating that community. And you took your power back or you always had your power. But you, you, you showed, you showed, you know, you, you, you flex your power muscle. Yeah, exactly. Speaker 3 Yeah, I always say that the OU dies after you're physically violated. And then there's the the you like I'm Brianna two point O you know what I mean? I completely elevated from, you know, who the person I thought that I was, who I thought I was going to be where I was going in life because of the trauma, you know, and then the healing kind of just grown me into like this whole other woman that that understands boundaries, that knows that I can say no and mean it and look people in the eye with no issue. You know what I mean? No issue at all, because I mean what I say and I say what I mean because I will never be violated again. You know, so there's, there's so much strength in healing because you do set really strict boundaries about what you will accept, what you won't accept, what you want, what you don't want and how people are going to treat you. You really show people how they're going to treat you versus them feeling like they can treat you any, any type of way. You know, that's where my healing lies because you know, I just, it's nice and kind. I just, I really like, you know, I think it's so important for them people to set boundaries and know and understand that their body is completely theirs and it's nobody, nobody's place to touch you any type of way, speak to you, any type of way at all. You know, you always deserve that respect. And so often after sexual violence, you know, you can become anti sex or you become engaging, you know, feeling like it's a way to also take your power back as well. Like I'm having sex with whoever I want to have sex with. I've been there, you know, and I know people have been there and just being in spaces where people see you, you don't even have to say anything like you, you feel comfortable enough to be like this also happened to me. I need help, You know, I want to work through this. I want to get to a space where this is not something I'm holding inside anymore. Because when you hold that inside, all the sicknesses, all the cancers, I, I believe all, a lot of sicknesses come from a lot of things that we don't release that we try to hold on to. And then there's the internal fight of emotions and thoughts. And I think just being able to, even if it's not sharing it to the world, sharing it with someone that you trust. There's like a there's a weight lifted off your shoulders and you know, all of our spaces are extremely safe. There is no judgement. Figure out your own way of healing and whatever we can do because we provide therapy for survivors as well. We partner with a few therapists and cross cultures therapy organization that you know, provides therapy for like 10 and $20.00 an hour, you know, So if they want to do therapy, go through us and we'll pay for that because therapy is expensive too. You know, sometimes it's hard to even do therapy after survival because it's so expensive, you know, or if you don't have insurance and all the things. So, you know, and if they need help with legal, we reach out on their behalf to find the best person for them to communicate with. You know, so we try to not try. We do make people feel safe, believed, heard and seen. And that is really the goal, empowering survivors to know that they are worthy to heal and to thrive past trauma. There's that support system that we have to make sure that, you know, we all know that we have a group of people and people become friends. They start businesses together, you know, so it becomes this beautiful experience of your friendships and growing friendships and relationships that are beyond me, you know. And, you know, the collaborations and advocacy that we do is like collaborating with therapists, collaborating with these gyms and with, you know, teachers and things of that nature to make sure that we can have these events for survivors that are safe. And, you know, also, you know, doing educational programs too. So, you know, going and speaking and talking about sexual violence, talking under, you know, high schools about consent and knowing what consent is, you know, and understanding that is a fine line because if you have to ask somebody, are they OK, it probably shouldn't be happening or like, Are you sure, then it probably shouldn't be happening. And having that self respect for yourself as an individual to be like, OK, like next time do you know or not? Speaker 2 Is there any like misconception about rape that the general public has? I mean, I think you said a lot already, like even in your story there was a ton, like very enlightening, but just is there anyone in particular that just comes to mind? It's like just major misconception that people think about rape. Speaker 3 That it happens. It's strangers that it happened that do this to you. You know, boyfriends have raped, you know, friends, relatives that those people raped too. Also to what you're wearing, what a survivor, you know what someone's wearing that that they want or they are asking for sexual, you know, asking to be raped. I think that that is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter what you have on. Like no one should be violating you, period. And another misconception is that like when people tell you that they're rate 98% of the time is the truth. You know, I know there are cases where people lie about that and it's disgusting because it really devalues true stories. However. Speaker 4 You know, it's an extreme minority. Speaker 3 You know, they say one in four. I was saying we're one in three. The CDC says one in three women have been sexually assaulted and one in five have men have been sexually violated. So it's almost every other person that you meet. And if it's not the person that you met, they know somebody that was affected by it. So it's so common. Speaker 4 I think there's first your own experience, your own personal experience, and then now you having this organization where you are getting to know and talking with and helping and dealing with so many different people of so many different races and cultures. So is there anything to speak to as far as particular experiences, like within black culture, whether it's about sexual assault or rape in maybe in relation to just how it's dealt with, I don't know if we can stereotype that much, but how it's dealt with within the community or talking about it, how it's received. Speaker 3 You know, even with our programming, there's very few of us there, very few of us there. It's probably anytime we do. Like, for example, we had our survivor retreat at Sunstone Winery and Vineyard. There was 58 people there. There was three other black people there. And I think a lot of times there's this, don't say anything, you're strong, you'll get over it. Unfortunately, we're not believed as often as other races are believed, you know, that we're braved or violated. And I don't know where that's the, you know, a lot of race, a lot of that stems and racism too, you know, So unfortunately a lot of us, because we're not believed and because we're not heard and because we're always stereotyped in certain ways, then we don't say anything. We're like, we're strong enough to get over. We got this, You know, I just, yeah, I just was really blessed. And my mom was like, you don't always have to fucking be strong. Excuse my French. You know, you don't always have to be strong. You know, I'll never forget. She called me one day in college and she said, how are you? You know, she would call me when I left the house, You know, when I was leaving class and I was coming back, we just talked all the time because, you know, that was for protective. She was in protective mode. And she asked me how I was doing. I was like, I'm fine. I'm fine. And she knows me like a book. And she was like, Brianna, wherever you are, sit down. And she was like, I just want to let you know you don't always have to be fine. You know what I mean? It's important for you to also tell me when you're not fine, you know, so that way I can work with you and so we can talk through things or we can, you know, communicate where you are and how we can get you through this. You know, by you saying that you're OK as putting a whole mask on, she said she'd have to take that off at night. Remember that, you know? And that also stuck with me because, you know, we do put this mask on like we're OK. Like, you know, everything's fine. And then when we go to sleep and we take that mask off, we're completely faced with the reality of what we're dealing with because we have to sleep with ourselves, you know, and that mind starts brewing. Things start moving around and, and it's not a good way to live by saying that you're OK all the time. So it is OK to not be OK. Speaker 2 Yeah. And to have compassion for yourself when you say you're not OK, right? You're not beating yourself up over it. You're having that inner compassion which I think is so lost with sexual assault, sexual abuse. Like, you don't have that voice that says, you know, it's actually it's OK, You're not OK. Speaker 3 Yes, yeah, yeah, You know. And it's just like, you know, if you ask your friend how are you doing and they're like, I'm not OK, you will give them a hug. You'd be like, I'm here for you. What do you need? We also need to give that to ourselves. Like there was times that I had to literally hug myself in the mirror and just like, I love you and look in the mirror and say those things to myself to reinforce, you know, that I'm not OK and you know that's OK. And me crying, it's OK, me laying in the bed, you need to lay in the bed all day. And rest is also OK. That doesn't mean that you're depressed, doesn't mean that you can't make it through. It means that your body needs to rest and your mind needs to settle. You know, those tears are purifying and they're necessary for you to release that pain. And, you know, give yourself, give yourself that, you know, and like you said, that compassion that we give to everybody else, we also need to 1st give it to ourselves because you can't even give it to anyone as much as you would like to, because you haven't even given yourself any, you know, it's just like that self love and that self knowing that you're, you deserve all the love that you're leaving or that you also get, you know, it's, it's important, you know, and sometimes it's just challenging after sexual trauma to understand that and realize that, you know, and so we hide ourselves. I remember because I was choked. I used to wear turtlenecks all the time for a while, just because I didn't want people seeing my neck, you know, I just felt like so exposed. And then I started making chokers. I was like, fuck that. Like, you know, my neck is sexy. Like, you know, I mean my neck, you know, it's, it's a part of me. It's my throat chakra, it's all of that, you know. And so I started making chokers in a space and taking my power back. Speaker 4 I love something you said a little earlier to the effect of often we'll wait to see how somebody is going to treat us right and then react or respond. Communicate to Others How They’re Treating You Then whenever that that happens, you kind of spoke to this idea of like, no, communicate to somebody how they're going to treat you. Speaker 3 100 percent, 100%, yeah. You have to, because if you react to just how someone's going to sort of respect you or treat you, then you're giving them power over you versus you, you know, having your, your standard of what you want, you know, and you have to have a standard. You have to have a standard. And you know what, those standards just boundaries, really. And if anybody respects your boundaries, then they have some respect for you because you know, there's a lot of people who set boundaries with and they're like, you know, they got all the attitude by because if you can't respect my boundaries, then why are you here? Because then you're going to be disrespecting my boundaries and then we're going to have a problem, you know? So instead of making problems, let's just call it quits at this point. You know so. Speaker 4 Right. So with Voices Beyond Assault, what are some of the ways that people, I mean, you mentioned some of them, but just to kind of bring it, hone it in on this sort of question, ways that people like if they want to learn more, they want to participate maybe or they want to support. What are some of the ways people or things people can get involved in? Speaker 3 So Voices beyondassault.org, you can go there. We have a space where you can e-mail us immediately or you can e-mail me directly at [email protected]. Our programming is mainly in Los Angeles at the moment, but you can follow us at Voice to be on Assault on Instagram. Our voice is beyond assault on TikTok. There's also, if you want to donate, go to Voice to be on assault.org and donate there. 98% of all of our funds go to everything, all of our programming. We are looking for any survivors who just want a supportive community and to be empowered and to uplift yourself or others. You know, we always need survivors who feel like they're in a, in a really healthy space to support those who are still a bit silent or still, you know, having a bit of resistance on, you know, joining programs or speaking about their story or even sharing their stories to someone. The importance of love and support So yeah, voicebianaslot.org. Speaker 4 I love that you created this organization seemingly, you know, sort of organically out of what seemed to be some of the cornerstones of your own healing journey. Like when, when, when you were speaking about you immediately preceding the, the, the rape experience that, you know, the most powerful experiences you had was, was the love, even though there was so much trauma and so much pain that you were going through, of course, and understandably. But what you come to, what floats to the top is that love and that support from your friends and from your family and from your mother. And then you've just kind of alchemized, it seems that what was that experience for you into creating that sort of space for others, along with that recognition that healing looks can look different for everybody? Speaker 3 Yes, it can look different and that's OK. Whatever space that you're in, it's OK. You know, I've been there, every survivor has been there, and there's nothing that you can't overcome. So save space for yourself to love on you, you know, and healing looks good on you. It looks looks damn good on you. You know, when you get to that space or even when you're in the process of it, it looks good on you. You know, everything changes. The way you look at people, the way you hold your head up, you know, just your confidence level, all the things change. So we're here to just help you embody that or to continue to have you continue embodying that and then also giving that to those who need, you know, so, and it is true. Thank you. It's like me really taking all that I had from my mother and my friends and just creating spaces of love and support for survivors as well, you know, Because without that, it's really hard. I mean, there's so many survivors that I met that their mom didn't believe them. Their mom will push things under the rug, you know, or, you know, tell them to be quiet or they're lying and didn't believe them. I couldn't even imagine what that's like. So we create those spaces where you have sisters, you have brothers, you know, older women there who are mother figures that are going to have your back, you know, and you can pick up a phone or you can e-mail and stay in touch. And it's just a a cycle of of love and just communication and support and where you are believed and supported. Speaker 4 Yeah, beautiful. And yeah, on that note, you, you now have a, a branch of the organization that's that's for men as well. VBA for Men Is that right? Speaker 3 Yes, we have Men of VBA. We have VBA Espanol, VBA Francois, VBAL, GB, TQ, plus the community, VBA Sri Lanka. And yeah, we're just expanding because unfortunately, you know, everyone has an experience and the men of VBA has been so great and so positive and you actually did an amazing conversation. She had an amazing conversation with them as well. But yeah, men at VBA, we unfortunately, you know, like I am a woman LED. So sometimes I feel like, you know, although I do understand that men experience, I don't really know their experience. So having that branch where men can take over the men at VBA, I thought it was so important because I know so many men has been sexually violated and sometimes coming to our groups, there's a lot of women and they're the only men in the program. I was like, I wanted to create something for men to know that they're also seeing heard and understood, you know, and create safe space for men to have healing and to heal past their trauma. Because unfortunately, men don't speak up as much as we do, you know, and for many different reasons, rightfully so. And I understand that. But we're creating spaces for them to where they can speak up, they can share their stories and if they don't want to, they can still be in a safe space. Speaker 4 Beautiful. Well, James, you have any have anything else at the moment? Speaker 2 No, I thought, I thought it was. It was a beautiful conversation, yeah. Speaker 3 It was I thank you man. I thank you to men for just being a listening ear, for your compassion with me and like just, you know, having this conversation. You know, I think that it's so important that survivors can share their stories and share where they are. And, you know, being a woman to also having two men that support the work that I'm doing, you know, and support the brands and things like that and the work that I'm doing. So it feels like I'm I'm doing, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. Speaker 4 That's for sure. I mean, I mean you you exemplify, you know, the name of this podcast, right from trauma to triumph. And so you know yours parts of your story that we know where you know, at some point devastating, right, and what you are turning all of it into is just so inspiring, first and foremost, just for you personally, you know, and then now how you know what you're turning that into a way to help so many other people is just so inspirational and so beautiful. And then we just so inspired by you and happy for you and, and I'm proud of you for what you're turning this into for others as well you. Speaker 3 Know so thank you I appreciate that a lot and let's continue to do it. I love the work that you 2 gentlemen are doing and thank you for sharing people's stories and thank you for sharing mine. Speaker 4 OK. Thank you so much, Brianna. Speaker 3 Thank you too so much and have a beautiful Saturday. Speaker 2 Thank you. Speaker 3 OK, thank. Speaker 4 You see you there. Bye, bye, bye. Speaker 2 This is from trauma to triumph.