Speaker 1By the time I hit my 50s, I'd learned a few things, like how family is precious, work can always wait, and 99% of people over 50 already have the virus that causes shingles. Not everyone at risk will develop it, but I did. The painful, blistering rash disrupted my life for weeks. Don't learn about your shingles risk the hard way. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist today. Sponsored by GSK. Hello, and welcome back to another edition of the Album Years
Speaker 2with myself and my co-host, Mr. Timothy J. Bowness. Say hello, Tim. Hello. Now, one of the things we've kind of made more of an issue of is the fact that we've made more of an effort to do since we reconvened was to go beyond our original remit, was to sort of concentrate, I think, on the, correct me if I'm wrong, something like the mid-60s to the mid-90s, that kind of window.
Speaker 3It was up to the year 2000, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2And we sort of considered that to be the period when the album was king. But we've made an effort to go beyond, partly because people have requested it, but we've made an effort to go beyond that. And we did 2001 as our last. We did, yeah. Such a long time ago, I can't even remember. But now, today. And it's almost like, I mean, it's almost like being thrown a dartboard, isn't it? We haven't picked this year for any particular reason. It was just randomly chosen. 2006. Just kind of chosen at random, right? It was sort of chosen at random.
Speaker 3I think part of the reason I chose it is because we were picking years that we were surprised at how much we liked. So 2001, we thought was going to be a bit of a dud. But in the end, it turned out to be a bold new beginning for music. 21st century, looking good. And I think we speculated at that point, when did the, the rot set in? And so I sort of chose a couple of years for our next two that I remembered feeling pretty uninspired in. And the one we're going with today, 2006, is one that when I then looked through the list of releases, I remembered it correctly. Whereas the other year that I chose, actually, I found lots of things that we both connected with and loved as albums. That'll be the next podcast. But yeah, so 2006. It was partly because there was that question we asked, when did we feel the rot for the album set in? And also because I remembered this to be a bad year. And the interesting thing is that, you know, I can think of 2005 and 2007 having new artists and albums that really excited me. So this particular year, a bit like 1992, was one that just didn't produce much for me, really. Yeah. And I feel the same.
Speaker 2I mean, without giving too much away at the moment, the other year that you've picked that we're going to do for the next one is another year. From our original period, you know, it's from the mid-80s, isn't it? So it wasn't totally surprising to me to see lots of records on that list that I remember buying and liking, or at least engaging with. But this, I have to say, this list I'm looking at in front of me now, 2006, is quite slender for me, as far as records that either A, I've heard, or B, I guess more importantly, that I actually like. There's very, very little here now. It may be like you say, that the year before this, or the year after this, or the year after this, there would have been lots. But right now, the answer to the question, when did the rot set in? I'm definitely looking at this list and seeing, well, maybe for me, for me, it was around this time that at least I, you know, I began to lose interest with sort of mainstream, you know, music. Maybe I was still listening to, I don't know, ambient music or experimental music, but I wasn't engaged with necessarily the big hitting record releases of this year.
Speaker 3What's interesting by this time, and maybe it's the impact of the internet. I find that what you're, what you've listened to out of this, I've not listened to. What I've listened to, you haven't listened to. And there's a far greater fracturing of people in their own little bubbles. And I kind of find that with, with friends in general, that whereas we would have these kind of listening sessions and a lot of tastes in common, there's a point in the 21st century that maybe because of the advent of, you know, the laptop, the personal computer, the beginnings of download and streaming. That we're all in very separate bubbles, really, in this kind of
Speaker 2list, sort of suggested. Let's jump right in. Now, another thing that's interesting about this list, because you put this list together, is that there is, the people who've listened to the show before will know that we usually have categories. We have groupings, don't we, of records. And, and I think as you kind of suggested, there doesn't seem to be any real, there's no patterns, there's no groupings, that logical groupings you can put things into, at least not easily. No. Is that a good thing? Or is that kind of a bad thing? Or is it just a thing? It's neither good nor bad. I think it's neither good nor bad.
Speaker 3Yeah. In terms of, in terms of producing good music, it's neither good nor bad. I think we've had years where nothing's happened, yet there'll still be fantastic albums. And of the albums we're going to discuss today, you know, one or two that are amongst the best absolutely sit outside the culture, sit outside of time, and you wouldn't know where to place them. You know, there is no genre.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, there are, I'm looking at the list. Again, as you're talking, and there are some sort of trends I see. And one of the trends, which I think also you alluded to in our, in our pre-record conversation was that there is a bunch of people that have been around a while that are producing some quite late career peak work. So we have on this list, we have Scott Walker, we have Johnny Cash, we have Sparks, we have The Who, we have David Gilmour. So there is a kind of trend here that, that the older artists are coming back with some sort of late career highs here. So, so should we talk about those? I mean, I think the most significant one for me out of those would be the Scott Walker album. Now, we've talked about Scott Walker before. He just continued, didn't he, to become more and more and more out there. And I think we've discussed this. There's a point at which the balance was right for us personally between the, you know, the great crooner, the great song interpreter and the experimentation. And that point was Climate of Hunter and Time. And I think that's a point that we should be thinking about. And now we have the next record, another 10 years after Tilt, The Drift, which was his first for 4AD. And for me, this is a record I admire more than I love. I love the fact he made it. It's just so experimental in a way that normally I would like. But I think the combination of his voice and the music becomes quite impenetrable, certainly in relation to what I love about the previous records. I don't know if you agree with me on that, Tim.
Speaker 3Yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, for me, the sweet spot, I think, is I really like 3 and 4. I love the tracks that he did on the Walker Brothers album, 1978 Night Flights. And I think that's where he hits that sweet spot. Night Flights, as you say, Climate Hunter and Tilt. This comes 11 years after Tilt. And I don't know what I was expecting, but he does, to his credit, take all of the ideas that he has had on Climate Hunter and Tilt much, much further. I mean, they're almost like extreme experimental audio plays at times. You know, this is the album which features the thumping of the side of beef or whatever it is. He actually has a percussionist. You've got some beef in this. As somebody else says, I think on the Internet, somebody was pummeling the pork at this stage. I don't know whether it was pork or beef or chicken. I'm suspecting it was pork or beef as it was quite large. It could have been a pig.
Speaker 2I'm sure, whatever it was, I'm sure he would have given great consideration to exactly what kind of meat was required for his conceptual, you know, sort of conceit. Yeah, but I think you're absolutely right. To be honest, I think this is a trend, obviously, when you listen to the next record, Bish Bosh. I mean, that, for me, what you just described, it's exactly that. They're like all. These are not songs anymore.
Speaker 3Climate of Uncertain Tilt still possessed some of the beauty of 3, 4, his great songcraft, his gorgeous voice. Whereas at this stage, it's an extremely stern voice that is matching the lyrical preoccupations. And the lyrical preoccupations are extraordinary. So I think Clara, the one with the pummeling of the pork, that is about, if I'm right, it's Mussolini and Mussolini's mistress being hung. And punched by a crowd in Italy. So it's a kind of the death of Italian fascism. One of them is about Elvis Presley's unborn twin, Jesse. So they're kind of extraordinary from a lyrical point of view, as well as from a musical point of view and bringing these vivid lyrics to life. And like you, you know, God, I'm so glad he made this album. This is one of the most uncompromising and wonderful albums to ever hit the UK top 50 chart. You know, Mark Holman, when he heard Tilt, allegedly walked out of the playback, disgusted. Christ, I wonder what he made of Bish Bosh.
Speaker 2I'm thinking, yeah, it's like, OK, you've tried Tilt, what about Bish Bosh? Some of these moments on these tracks are genuinely terrifying, aren't they? I mean, that moment when he starts, is he doing an impression of Donald Duck on one song? Yes, yeah. Is it Donald Duck he's saying? And it should be, it should be hilarious and it should be ridiculous. Oh. Absolutely bloody terrifying. He pulls it off. But it's not the sort of thing you would put on for a romantic dinner date, is it? Let's face it. This is, this is. is really quite extreme musical theater and the voice becomes so mannered hasn't it i think that's one of the things that i have a problem with the voice has become so mannered by this time it's like it's like someone doing an impersonation of scott walker at his most mannered and i think a lot of singers end up perhaps going down that route don't they where they become almost a almost a almost a parody of themselves in that respect
Speaker 3i think that is true and and the other thing as well is he almost seems to be undercutting any beauty so there are only two tracks that you could consider to be remotely conventional one of them is cossacks are and one of them is the very last track if you know that one it's a lover loves and a lover loves has melody has sweetness and in the middle of this if you remember he's going so he's singing this beautiful melody and it's it's gonna it reminds me of that you know that watermelon in easter hay the gorgeous yeah um piece by frank zapper and zapper always undercuts it with that silly cynical voiceover this is even worse you're trying to lose yourself in the beauty of the guitar and the beauty of the voice i think
Speaker 2you know i think what we're both saying is that we kind of understand we recognize and concede the album is a masterpiece it's a work of genius it's just not something that we you know we could imagine wanting to listen to very often and it's that trout mask replica thing is you listen to it and you're just dazzled by it yeah it's so uncompromising it's so unlike anything else anyone has done you know before or since and yet it's not something that you're able to warm to particularly so you know i'm so happy that album exists i think his career is absolutely fascinating the whole trajectory of his career is absolutely fascinating the drift obviously is is a is a massive a massive entry in in that career
Speaker 3trajectory isn't it i was gonna say one of the things that makes this so extraordinary as you say this is an album that in some ways is more experimental than say the nico albums of the late 60s early 70s it's one of the most amazing albums that i've ever heard of and it's one of the the most extreme albums ever to come under a pop and rock umbrella but think about it mid-60s middle of the road crooner and i was looking at the list of people on it peter walsh co-produces it peter walsh was a mainstream 1980s producer for the likes of simple minds and the session players on it they include people who were on jerry rafferty's baker street and were regular session players in the 70s and 80s people like hugh bernie who were on jerry rafferty's i think it is john giblin's the bass player so in some ways the people involved on paper you couldn't imagine them creating
Speaker 2this work but then you say that but then on the next record no not the next record the record that he made just before he passed away he went and worked with some drone metal guys so maybe maybe he kind of felt that himself that he was too you know relying too much on
Speaker 3this sort of core group of musicians what's interesting about that is that the album with suno which actually i like is the most accessible of his later works it's prettier in a way even though he's working with an experimental drone metal band i mean it's that thing that on paper you could not conceive that album if you just looked at the list of names what's come out is remarkable so we should probably
Speaker 2move on to him so um there's a bunch records here some of these people i i haven't heard the lindsey buckingham record i haven't heard the johnny cash record so maybe you can talk a little bit about about these and tell me and the listeners about these
Speaker 3under the skin lindsey buckingham i think is one of the best albums he's ever made it came after um i think it was a 14 year gap in solo albums and it was his first album after the say you will fleetwood mac reformation and it's incredibly distinctive um he's developed this quite unique uh acoustic guitar sound with a lot of arpeggio and and echo um covers donovan song which is always a good thing for us um and it's surprisingly impassioned and bitter so his voice is still on great form this is the thing that these guys at this stage are late 50s early 60s and their voices are still extraordinarily good and so this you know really is quite an emotional distinctive entry and i guess it comes back to what we were saying earlier that the older guys at this stage they're making the music that i think they always wanted to make they've gone past the pop period when perhaps they were making concessions they've gone past the 90s when perhaps they were a little unsure of their abilities they've arrived at the mid-2000s and they've thought well we are what we are we're going to make the albums we want to hear so there's a there's a decidedly more idealism and emotion so endless why is that sorry yeah sorry i was just
Speaker 2going to say to him just picking up on the point you made that is that something to do with getting to a certain age because i guess i feel you know i feel like i'm not going to be able to do that myself too and you know obviously we're both in our 50s now and maybe as you get to a certain age and you just start thinking to yourself well i don't need to to do anything to please anybody but myself now um you're not trying to fulfill what the industry expects of you anymore you've kind of built an audience for yourself and maybe that is just a sort of mature something to do with maturing and and getting to that age where you just don't care anymore what other people expect or want from you having said that i think we've always been a bit like that yeah i was about to say i think
Speaker 3you're right with a lot of musicians but i think many musicians that we discuss and like did go through a period where perhaps you could say they compromised their idealism in order to achieve and i don't think you and i ever did that you know at the point when we were being encouraged to do so if anything i think it forced us the other way you know we would well briefly
Speaker 2we did didn't we we i think very early on we we made a few singles and and you know contrived singles to be radio friendly and all that stuff so but it was very brief i think wasn't it and it made us it made us sort of redouble our efforts in a way to not go down that path i
Speaker 3think you're right so
Speaker 2it was a it was a it was a lesson that we learned pretty early on and i think since then we've kind of stuck to that haven't we but there's a sense but there's a sense i think with these musicians you're talking about that as you say they've kind of spent the 80s and 90s in a way trying to chase the young pretenders trying to match up trying to stay relevant right they have to stay relevant somehow and they've got to this point where they've just said nah fuck it uh this is what i do this is what i like to do i don't care anymore um this is why i make music so the music seems to i guess naturally seems to begin to have more integrity certainly the david gilmore record on an island it's nothing you haven't heard david gilmore do before in a way but it's what he does very well and he's doing it very well extremely well yeah
Speaker 3and it's it's a very sort of pretty leisurely album that sort of makes you feel like you're in the right place and you're slightly hints at some of the floydian grandeur but in some ways it's just a beautiful singer songwriter album as if he's cast aside every single record record company dictate and thought i'm just going to write some songs that i love and work with musicians that i trust so you've got people like phil manzanera who i think co-produces it and plays on it you've got robert wyatt i think on one track as well so this is an album made with friends as much as anything else
Speaker 2yes and it obviously he's allowing himself in a way to fall back into his comfort zone now that's something you couldn't accuse scott walker of doing no um but and maybe that's the difference between the scott record and some of these other records we're talking about although i haven't as i haven't heard the who or lindsey bucking records but maybe these are artists allowing themselves to fall back into their comfort zone do what people love about them do what they love to do but what about the who record and i i don't know this record the who well i mean how is that the buckingham
Speaker 3album does have a certain bit and it's one of the things that's amazing when you consider fleetwood mac's success is how on a few tracks he almost seems to be lamenting the fact that people are ignoring him there's an aspect of that but actually it gives the album a really interesting edge you know this is not actually a complacent album you know under the skin i really would rate as one of lindsey buckingham's finest achievements and i'm going to go against the grain on this because i know that the reviews weren't necessarily good but it enables us to talk about contemporary production as well endless wire by the who it's one of his big conceptual works it's got the rock band with perhaps more acoustics it's that mix that you hear on who's next but it's the band that are weathered with age you've got the synths you've got the terry riley style classical minimalism you've got the riffs but you've got some very understated songs and you also have quite a big concept at the core of the album as well which i'm not going to describe in the way that i would describe the core concept that who's next was going to be about but it's in some ways an extension of that but they sound like the who in 2006 the voices are great the voices are weathered there's one track which is called anti and theater which closes the album and i think it's one of the best things that who have ever done and what it features is a lovely acoustic guitar arpeggio roger daltrey singing quite emotively and a very very laid-back almost hip-hop groove in the background so it's the who doing something different but entirely themselves and it contrasts with the who album which you may not have heard from two years ago who and with that it's almost as if they're saying okay what do people like about the who now this album got fantastic reviews and i think it's a weaker record i still like it but i think it's a weaker record it's almost like okay let's take this aspect of who's next this aspect of quadrophenia a little bit of my is they've auto-tuned daltrey's voice so on endless wire it's pre- perfect pitch it's pre the autotune domination so Townsend and Daltrey's voices sound really raw throughout the album and I think it's a positive whereas on the album from a couple of years ago it's almost as if they're trying to make Daltrey sound younger they're certainly trying to keep his pitching perfect and you can hear it you know if you're aware of these things you can hear the autotune on almost every single track and it neuters it neuters these powerful new quite strong Townsend songs you know certainly the last album goes against what we were just saying it's Townsend saying I am still relevant I can still make a racket whereas Endless Wire is him going down his labyrinthine conceptual roots and it's more enjoyable because of that all right so maybe we should move on I
Speaker 2mean there are other records made by oldies but I think it's a good idea to make a new one and I think it's a good idea to make a new one and I think it's a good idea to make a new one and I think it's a good idea this year Johnny Cash American 5 100 Highways Elton John the Captain and the Kids which again I haven't heard but I've heard good things about it it was I think it was seen at the time as a return to you know what people liked about him but let's move on to some of the more contemporary artists this year so Joanna Newsome and I don't know how you say the title of this record East YS East is it East
Speaker 3that's how I said
Speaker 2it yeah she's a very interesting artist isn't she I bought this this year so just listeners who maybe don't know this this artist kind of her harp is her she's a singer-songwriter but her her choice of instrument for accompaniment is her is harp she plays the harp which already is a very very different sound this is not just another another sort of singer songwriter with an acoustic guitar or piano but she also writes these very kind of sprawling most of the songs on this record about 10 minutes long and it's five if I remember rightly there's five 10 minute long sources there is this storytelling aspect of it and I think it's going on she's she's kind of got this slightly uh kooky hippie chick kind of vibe hasn't she about her but it's very beautiful the string arrangements are lovely I think Jim O'Rourke produced this record did he or mix this record I know
Speaker 3that Van Dyke Parks did some of the arrangements for it
Speaker 2yeah yeah um and it's interesting because she almost comes from that tradition doesn't she of almost baroque baroque kind of string arrangements and storytelling and she seemed like an artist very much out of time which I guess you know I don't know if you've heard of her but she's you know again something that backs up your theory that there isn't really any sense of strong sense of direction this year uh which is it which is interesting that you have an artist like Joanna Newsom breaking through I mean how would you sort of characterize what she does I've probably failed to do it justice I don't
Speaker 3know I mean I think there was if there was any kind of movement um you had people like Devendra Barnhart um I can never pronounce it Susan Stevens as well doing similar things in that they were kind of reclaiming eccentric 60s 70s singer-songwriter ideas and ambitious orchestral arrangements infusing that I guess with a contemporary sensibility and yeah I think it's a it's a really strong album I think she has a marvelous voice which is kind of weird because it's somewhere between little girl and old woman it's like she sounds simultaneously incredibly wise and cracked but also very innocent there's a kind of bjergish quality at times and that's one of the only this for the contemporary influences you can hear in what she does but you're right that these are sort of five seven to eleven minute harp mini symphonies with lovely string arrangements um quite a sort of storytelling narrative and it could have existed at any time from 1967 to 2006 to now and been hailed as a classic because it's so quirky but it's it's
Speaker 2quirky but i mean you know it obviously it obviously did reach quite a large audience fascinating yeah uh i mean apparently i'm looking at the wikipedia page now it's sold over a quarter of a million copies this record now this is not an easy record no no uh i mean it you know it's not it's not as extreme as something like scott walker's the drift because it's very beautiful yeah uh and it's very kind of engaging inviting it's very warm sound but the songs are not really songs either they're more like narratives which is something it does have in common with the scott walker approach you know there's more sort of like mini mini sort of plays in a way but i mean i think a lot those artists you've mentioned the davandra banhart and the stevens you know they're all sort of artists you would loosely say psychedelic folk artists you know they've kind of got that they've got that sort of sense of being in the tradition of folk singers and singer-songwriters but the music is much more out there and much more i mean she has she has everything from banjo to string arrangements so it's got it's got its roots in americana in a way too hasn't it yeah there's something about it that could not i mean i appreciate what you're saying there's something about it that couldn't have existed in the 60s or the 70s i mean it's it does also have a very contemporary edge to it a very contemporary very sort of pristine jim o'rock mixed the record i know jim was in there somewhere it's a very pristine very high fidelity sounding record isn't
Speaker 3it yeah i and yes i i think that she has the relationship to let's say banhart and stevens that maybe the beach boys and van dyke parks had to the psychedelic beatles and psychedelia in general because if you listen to beach boys of the late 60s and van dyke parks and psychedelic beatles and psychedelic beatles and psychedelic beatles and parks the late 60s there's a real sense again of american tradition that could be anything from blues to bluegrass to dixieland to old school gershwin ballads and she seems like she has absorbed all of this but it's interesting because you know at the time i would say other than this hint of bjork's eccentricity i couldn't see anything close to it and one of her favorite albums of all time was roy harper's stormcock which is for very long rambling singer songwriter pieces that that makes
Speaker 2perfect sense that makes perfect sense to me yes i mean but she's got a very untrained voice hasn't hasn't she as well i mean it's a very it doesn't sound i mean in in complete contrast to most female voices you hear now uh which almost seem to have come through that america you know american idol kind of filter yeah joanna newsom's almost sounds naive naive and untrained doesn't it and it's and and for that reason i mean i think we've spoken about this before on on on the show on the podcast that these days underachieving voices are much more appealing than those overachieving you know sort of american idol type voices you know do you think of people like bill callahan as well from smog you know going back to that tradition of the bob dillons the tom waits these are not these are not trained professional quote-unquote voices and they're much more engaging and appealing for that reason they really touch you for that very reason i entirely
Speaker 3agree and i think as i said going back to the who that's one of the problems this year 2006 they're letting doltry sound like doltry but by 2019 they're giving it the contemporary american idol auto-tune production which just doesn't suit a raw spirit or raw voice like doltry really yeah i'll say
Speaker 2that i mean i can even hear auto-tune on the new at the two new abba songs which i think are amazing by the way but the one the one caveat to that is i can hear the auto-tune and you know they're in the late 60s early 70s now so that voice is not as strong as they used to be but still i wish in a way i could hear the voices cracking and maybe not reaching those notes rather than that signature that i hear of the auto-tune and the maladyne plug-ins this leads
Speaker 3to the johnny cash album from this year because cash died in 2003 and as you probably know rick rubin who did this with quite a number of artists basically took a number of artists back to their roots and saying look what do you want to make take you out of the studio system the record company system album joint to make and i will help you do this and so he made a series of albums i've called the american albums in which cash is mostly in a studio with a guitar singing songs he loves plus a few contemporary songs that rubin would have brought to his attention like hurt by nine inch nails and what they do is exactly what you've just said that they leave this guy who's in his late 60s early 70s to sing as he sings american five isn't perhaps as as good as american four the man comes around but it's incredibly strong and very very touching for that very reason that they've left this as he would have probably been then 72 just before he died because this i think these were the last tapes he did before he died in 2003 you know there was no attempt to disguise that this was an ill man in his early 70s and it makes the songs all the more affecting
Speaker 2so let's talk about um something else that was genuinely new this year and i remember this record coming out this was a record that had famously broken or an act an artist that famously broken through myspace at least that was the story arctic monkeys some younger people might even remember myspace it was it was myspace was facebook before facebook yeah and for a very and for a very brief moment in the mid 2000s the mid-naughties it was what everyone was trying to to get you know to get their music across on because this arctic monkey success story they released their first album uh this year called whatever people say i am that's what i'm not and it was massive wasn't it i mean you know i bought it i was curious i'd heard the singles and what was really interesting about it is that it was that another of those bands in the tradition of the smiths and the stone roses that were making no attempt to cover up their you know their normal life and their normal life and their normal life and their normal life and their normal The fact that they were from the north of England. singing in this very, very, very strong accent. And it's got that kind of kitchen sink drama, lyrical quality too, hasn't it? I know you adore and I love that too. Morrissey, of course, famous for doing that in his lyrics. And it's something that absolutely Alex Turner has too, isn't it? It's almost like he's just giving you these little slices of life, you know, his life. And I must admit, I found that really refreshing. I hadn't really heard it done with so much wit since the days of, you know, listening to the Smiths records growing up. Yeah, so I really enjoyed this record. It didn't become as fixed in my, you know, in my psyche as the Smiths records, but that could be an age thing. You know, I was already, you know, grown up by then. So it didn't kind of hit me the way the Smiths stuff did. But I think in its own way, it's just as distinctive. And also they've really carved out a career. And they have developed and they have evolved, as I understand it, from what I've heard over the years of the records. They have really become, you know, artists and this is where it all begins. So what was your take on this record when it came out?
Speaker 3I think you're right. I mean, I, you know, I really liked the, the Bait Look Good on the Dance Floor single. And I think it was partly his voice that appealed to me. I thought he had this kind of ragged, almost Kevin Coyne quality, actually. And so I like the energy of it. You know, to me, it was a little like if the Lars met the Smiths. Like you, I liked it, thought it was impressive, but it didn't touch me in the way that, that's the Smiths had done. And I think that's partly because there's a greater melancholy strand in the Smiths. There was a greater love of the epic and love of the ballad in the Smiths, which I think you and I are quite partial to. And in that sense, this album is very tight. You know, it's much closer to the Lars in terms of their sort of songwriting discipline and concision, if you like.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. There's not, there's not a lot of stretching out in terms of the musical palette, is there, on this record? I think. I think they did that a lot more later on with their later records. Yeah. But this record is essentially, you know, guitar based. I think even the title comes from one of those old movies, isn't it? Now I'm thinking, isn't whatever people say I'm not, what people say I am, that's what I'm not. Isn't that from one of those old? It sounds like something from
Speaker 3Saturday night, Sunday morning, doesn't it? It sounds something like Albert Finney would say.
Speaker 2You know, and in some ways also one of the last rock bands to have broken through, you know, and we're talking about 15, 16 years ago now, but they were one of the last rock bands that ever broke through to the, to the, you know, to the big time in that sense, you know, the sort of band that could headline a big festival, a Reading or a Leeds festival or whatever. Because I can't think of any since, since Arctic Monkeys, anyone has really broken through on that level. You know, I'm talking about sort of Muse radio head level and they have, they did and they have. And as you say, I think a lot of it is down to the quality of his, of his observation and his lyrics and his voice and not covering up the fact that they're from Chicago. Sheffield, you know, they're from the North of England, you know, that's, that's always something quite appealing, isn't it?
Speaker 3I think as well, what was quite clever is that he, you know, Turner very quickly had a side project that was much more epic and Scott Walker influenced as it happens, you know, that kind of Scott Walker of mid to late sixties. So I think very quickly, you know, if you thought they had something extra, they proved they had something extra pretty quickly. I think talking
Speaker 2of radio head, Tom York released his first solo record this year, the eraser, which is one of the few records on this list. I can genuinely say I absolutely love and still listen to. Now there was a sense, even by this time that where does radio head end and Tom York begin because radio had already embraced electronica, you know, in albums like amnesiac and hail to the thief. But this is Tom completely sort of giving himself to the, to the electronic, electronic world, isn't it? It has a lot of the sort of influences of the music you've listened to by artists, like on the warp label, that sort of IDM electronica, but he's done that amazing thing where, and I know one of the conversations you and I have a lot is that you don't relate to a lot of electronic music because it doesn't have that emotional tug that lyrics and vocals and a strong sort of central vocal performance would give it for you that would make you love it.
Speaker 3Or instrumental performance as well, you know, because obviously I listened to a lot of jazz and a lot of ambient, but there's always,
Speaker 2but it doesn't have that yet. It doesn't have that solo voice that kind of pulls you in. But here's an example of a record that does have that, you know, this is, this is electronic music. This is, you know, quote unquote, God, I must stop doing that. This is, this is in many respects, quite robotic, mechanical, electronic IDM music, but with his voice, which is an amazing kind of tool for, for pulling you in emotionally and touching you emotionally. What did you make of this record? Do you, do you know the record? Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, this comes out of Kid A really more than anything else. Cause I think Radiohead sort of reasserted themselves as a rock band with electronic influences as the 2000s went on. And this is him pursuing strands of Kid A and taking them much, much further. So, you know, it does have a kind of very icy, robotic, glitchy electronic sound throughout, but he has this very ragged, emotional voice that yeah, it ties it all together for somebody like me. It's not a compromised record and it's certainly not an accessible record, but there's enough of a sort of human quality to draw me in. So, you know, this is kind of electronica with a real human edge and I liked it. And of course it provides a great entry point into his solo work, which I guess has a couple of strands. And one of the strands is taking this music even further. And the other, is the more soundtrack aspect that he's developed of late as well.
Speaker 2I think he has this knack for just, I mean, just when you think you kind of understand what the track is and where it's going and what kind of musical vocabulary he's using, he will introduce something that just kills you with his beauty. I mean, he's done this, he did on his last record too, you know, these electronic, very kind of cold electronic backings, but then he'll introduce some keyboard chord progression or arpeggio or something that's just devastatingly beautiful. You know, it might come two thirds of the way through the song or something. And he does that a few times on this record, notably on the final track on the record, which is my favorite on the record called Symbol Rush. He's just got that ability to just grab you when you think you're just losing interest because it's quite a cold sort of impenetrable electronic sound. It sounds like he's just sort of noodling over the top with his voice and then it will just suddenly cohere. The whole track will cohere and it all just falls into place. And the other album, of course he's made recently that, you know, as you kind of pointed out the soundtrack element, the soundtrack to Suspiria, which I think is incredible too. People talk about the original Goblin soundtrack to Suspiria, which is great. I actually think the Tom York one is even better.
Speaker 3And I think it's, you know why it works. It's convincing. It doesn't seem like sort of middle-aged superstar rock person attempting to be the apex twin. It's anything, but he's completely in control of what he's doing and he's adding something to it. And I guess the actual biggest surprise with it is that it hasn't been particularly influential because it's quite unique. You know, it's really is somebody coming from a sort of rock and singer songwriter background uniquely adapting experimental electronic elements. Tom York does seem an artist alone really.
Speaker 2Well, you say that, I mean, I have to say he's been really influential on me. I mean, if you listen to a track, like from my last time, like King Ghost, which is very, I mean, the whole sound of it is electronic except the voice. That's the only kind of human element in it. And that very much, which is, is the influence or, you know, not that it sounds like his records, but that idea of taking kind of cold glitchy electronica and putting a very sort of affecting beautiful, you know, sort of vocal melody over the top. But I think it's interesting you say that I think he is one of those artists that, as you say, is almost creating his own world. There are some artists that are very easy to emulate and there are other artists that are so difficult to copy that it, they almost have their own scene. They must create their own scene. I think of people like Peter Hamill. I think, I think of people like, again, like Scott Walker. They're hard to copy, aren't they? It's hard to emulate. I mean, I think Kate Bush too. Kate Bush is an artist. Everyone, you know, there was a time, wasn't there? When it seemed every slightly quirky female singer songwriter that came onto the scene would get compared to Kate Bush. But the point is that none of them ever sounded like Kate Bush. You cannot. Same with Bjork. You can't really sound like artists. I think Bjork is interesting. She's almost like the, the female equivalent of a Tom.
Speaker 3I was about to say, I was going to say, actually, I'm going to contradict myself here because in fact she was doing this perhaps even earlier than Tom York and Kid A, you know, she was experimenting with cutting edge electronic producers, electronic artists and humanizing it with her voice. So I think that, you know, maybe we say it's a field of two and they're both utterly unique and the way in which they process those electronic influences is very different. So if you're listening to Vespertine, which obviously is using a lot of electronic elements, I mean, it's a very symphonic, quite coherent, beautiful statement. Whereas The Eraser is, is more uncompromising. And again, you know, what's interesting here is for this year, 2006, we found three albums already, The Drift, The Eraser, and Ys, Jon and Newsome, that are not following any record company dictates and being hugely successful. And that's quite encouraging, really, that Alice, I think, has done a good job, and I think she's doing a good job. I think she's doing a good job. so comprehensively rips up the rule book but 2006 even though it's not proving to be our year it's still proving you can make extraordinary statements and be successful with them well i
Speaker 2take issue slightly with you there tim i don't think the drift sold i don't i don't think the drift sold very well at all number one um number one in belgium sir and i'm not sure by the standards of radiohead i'm not sure the eraser probably sold that well either but i mean by virtue of the fact that it was the the solo album by tom york it probably would have sold pretty well yeah but i don't think i don't think any of these records really crossed over to a massive one but what you're saying is still absolutely true you know they're amazingly uncompromising statements by really unique artists that seem to be inhabiting their own little world and that is fantastic to see that still happening in in 2006 you know a year a year that we on paper previously thought was was not a particularly strong year yeah but i think you're absolutely right about york i mean even going back beyond vespertine all is full of love i mean what a what a song you know so emotionally touching and yet it's its backing is entirely uh electronic i think
Speaker 3bar the odd return to a more conventional pop format she's kind of got further and further out yeah she's lost me
Speaker 2bjork lost me a long time ago i'm afraid yeah yeah but again i like experimental music but i mean that's the problem i think with problem you know it's not a problem it's what makes them special but it's the the issue as a listener with people like bjork and all you know it was also true of of people like brian ferry you know wasn't it these marmite voices for those of you don't know marmite was uh well how would you describe marmite is it like a beef sort of like no no condiment of some
Speaker 3good grief so it's vegan it's vegan marmite is it i'm thinking
Speaker 2of what am i thinking i'm thinking above for a long
Speaker 3time no marmite is yeast it's a yeast extract which they've made into a supremely tasty paste that you can put on all sorts of things i find muffins crumpets toast put a bit of cheese so you
Speaker 2like marmite i'm with you like marmite so you see now now the reason the expression marmite and you're relating to having taste in something or not is that it's something that people either tended to get or completely not get they loved it or they hated it i hate it i hate marmite you love it i love it so when so we have this expression i don't know if it translates outside of the uk we have this expression a marmite voice a marmite so you can do marmite anything yeah basically what you're saying by that is it's something that polarizes opinion exactly so people either love it and they get it or they absolutely don't get or hate it what other albums would you like to particularly mention tim here because i don't know most of these to be honest so um
Speaker 3there's a canadian guy i really like um destroyer who has destroyers ruby is out this year and it's not my favorite album of his but it's a reasonably decent starting point slightly more conventional than a lot of his work but destroyer is a bit like war on drugs in that he has incredibly unfashionable reference points you know yacht rock or avalon era roxy music but manages to make these quite edgy canadian indie albums and he's got a very eccentric voice almost like a kind of contemporary peter sarstedt and again quite a storytelling style but i think you know destroyer is an artist who is worth listening to and he had destroyers rubies out this year one album i really liked this year was hello young lovers by sparks because i think that with little beethoven in 2002 i think they'd found an entirely fresh vocabulary again and in this case it was these relentless repetitive pieces with almost orchestral fragments so it was somewhere between a sort of philip glass minimalism with almost a kind of hip-hop cut-up technique and repetitious lyrics and hello young lovers continues that and it's it's another brilliant sparks album and um you know they're a case where he's got a very signature voice but it doesn't seem to drag it doesn't seem to become a parody of itself which easily could so i think that um you know they're a band who again they're having a moment in you know 2021 which is great to see but i was going to say they're
Speaker 2really they're really the band of the moment aren't they i mean god there's there's two movies out right now one about them and one where they've done the soundtrack or something so they've all obviously always been a connoisseur's choice haven't they i mean a lot of musicians a lot of film directors clearly a lot of film directors uh love sparks but apart from that very brief moment in the mid-70s they've never really enjoyed that crossover to a large mainstream audience have they they haven't um but but as you say a fascinating body of i mean i don't know or you know all of their records but they're another of those artists that seem to exist in their own world where no one else sounds like them and they continue to evolve and they continue to evolve and they continue to evolve and continue to change even now i mean they must be i'm guessing ron is in his 70s now i think they're both mid-70s yeah mid-70s yeah even now still you know still kind of innovating still progressing and always with that very kind of wry arch sense of of playfulness and humor i think
Speaker 3that's the one thing that's been there because you know if you think about it you know for the duo they have constantly shifted you know almost as much as mars davis or david bowie and they anglo-centric influences like the who and the beatles but i think they fuse that with a love of things like gilbert and sullivan and what have you but um you know yeah they had that commercial moment in the mid-70s when they somehow managed to collide with glam rock very effectively and then maybe in the late 70s when they managed to collide with electro pop again when they'd work with george omarodra and that was a great reinvention but you know there's a there's a sort of there's a ztt reinvention in the mid-80s they did a track called change which is as astonishing as anything on ztt but they didn't leave it there you know they they are continually shifting and certainly this kind of little beethoven hello young lovers shift is interesting because it's not like anything else out there it's not like they said okay pet shop boys have got aspects of
Speaker 2sparks pet shop boys is a good sort of reference in a way isn't it because neil tennant obviously also has that kind of art and he's got a lot of art and he's got a lot of art and he's got a lot of archness about him but but he also had that kind of um vulnerability and tenderness and sentimentality that i don't think at least again i haven't heard all these sparks albums and some of the ones you're talking about i'm not familiar with i don't think perhaps because ron was writing the lyrics for his brother to sing that there wasn't ever that feeling that you were being let into someone's heart the way that you were with neil tennant and the pet shop boys maybe i'm wrong about that but no i'm one of those people who i'm one of those people who i'm one of those people who i'm wondering if that's probably why perhaps people have always found sparks a little bit more impenetrable than they did with because you're right they said they had a lot in common with with sparks pet shop boys and you obviously pet shop boys have been massively successful in a way that sparks have not i
Speaker 3think you're right i think it is the vulnerability i think the one thing that you pointed out in a way that marks sparks world from the very very beginning is perhaps a zapper-esque quality but even zapper you know if you listen to zapper's work he can be hugely emotional with his guitar playing so although there is a kind of heartless humorousness throughout zapper's career even there you get glimmers of love affection vulnerability and i don't think you ever get that in the work of sparks you know they remain an enigma i think and a brilliant enigma so from their very early works as half nelson through to their glam period and their garage period their electro pop period and their electro pop period and their electro pop period to their groucho marx meets philip glass period in the early 2000s the one thing that remains is that maybe you don't get a sense of them as emotional human beings but you know still a compelling and brilliant
Speaker 2band okay so let's try and wrap things up to him let's just go through some of the other ones that you have on the list that we haven't uh given a mention to some of these i think neither of us have heard but we'll we should we should at least have a look at them mention them anyway so you've also got a matter of life and death iron maiden which i have heard this year oh you have heard this fits
Speaker 3into what we were saying about older artists just deciding we're going to do what we want to do it's heartfelt it's very well put together and it's pretty
Speaker 2ambitious actually the letting go by bonnie prince billy another in a string of fantastic records by will oldham um the swell season by glenn hansard and marquetta iglova i don't know what
Speaker 3pretty album it's a lovely album he went on to greater success by writing the music to the film once but i saw him live in dublin at the time and um he was in that kind of damien rice territory of heartfelt singer-songwriter but with some interesting arrangements and uh did it well you know great voice some good songs okay
Speaker 2he's that guy i i know that movie so he's that guy glenn hansard okay then we have suno who we previously mentioned as having collaborated with scott walker collaborating this year on with with boris the japanese trio boris on an album called alter which i like a lot which is again part of a great continuum of work that they've both those artists have produced in fact um shearwater palo santo a concept album about nico what's not to love about that amazing record and protect you by the mars volta uh the warning by hot chip i don't know any of these records so i'm this is why i'm glossing
Speaker 3over okay do you want to talk about any of those records well not any of those particularly i mean you know records i remember getting at the time finding interesting when um nick barch's or nick baird's ronin they were making their series of ecm albums that were very interesting that kind of stern jazz minimalism and he's got voice and it's a great voice and that's one of their strong albums always sounds beautiful of course because it's an ECM record one band I completely fell in love with in the early 2000s with the Yashimi album was Flaming Lips and so they've got an album this year at War with the Mystics which sort of sees them reasserting some more of their kind of psychedelic garage band credentials so it's not one of my favorite albums but you know I got to say that you know Stephen Drozd Wayne Coyne very much became favorite musicians for me okay Tim let's wrap things up
Speaker 2so we we need to do our usual thing pick one album for you that you would take to your desert island you would hold close to your heart forevermore and one album that you think is looking forward to what will what will come I think it's gonna be tough that one isn't it I think this is it yeah because there isn't really as you say there isn't really a pattern and there isn't a record here which seems to have had you know it seems to have cast at least I'm looking down the list now I can't maybe the Arctic Monkeys you know um well again I'm not sure how many bands really came up in their wake I think you know when we were talking about that we pointed out that they were really the last of the sort of rock bands to break through so I'm not sure how influential they might have been but anyway
Speaker 3what what would you I suppose in terms of sort of suggesting what happened afterwards I guess The Eraser by Tom York because it suggests paths that he's taken at the very last moment at least and obviously there's an artist I don't know if you know Stephen Wilson I think it suggested some paths he's taken yeah but as
Speaker 2you pointed out to him at the time I'm the only one that's actually shown any influence from that record so I don't think that's entirely true by the way I think he has been influential but but I think you were right when you made the point that it doesn't seem to have become a signpost to the future in the way that perhaps it might have done I'm looking at this list and I'm looking at some of the records that neither of us have heard and thinking I bet that's the one like the Hot Chip record I know nothing
Speaker 3about Hot Chip yeah the Hot Chip you know they're good I like Hot Chip yeah no I mean they're a good playful electronic dance pop band with influences like Robert Wyatt so you can see there's something going on they're a bit like Underworld in that sense that although it's producing a kind of electronic dance music with more of a pop sensibility in Hot Chip's case um they clearly know other things and you can hear it in it you know so I always kind of hear the the Englishness of something like Robert Wyatt um see now looking at
Speaker 2this now I think there is an album that actually has proved to be quite influential even though I'm not a big fan the Burial album okay uh because it was in in the dubstep scene it was seen as the as the great artistic masterwork um and ended up being you know big critics favorite and all that so perhaps in that respect the Burial album my favorite album is of the year is the Tom York album I genuinely love that record I still listen to it um you know very often and in fact I listen to all his songs and I listen to all his songs and I listen to all his solo records probably more than I listen to Radiohead these days actually um yeah I mean
Speaker 3ultimately I agree with you on the Burial although I say I think maybe Tom York's he raises sort of hints at paths that he will take and maybe a few sort of electronic artists so it's going to say that the thing with with Tom York is that obviously he had the oxygen of publicity that being in Radiohead gives you so he was hugely successful with an uncompromising work so I think it's maybe been more influential than people will suspect but not a lot of people are necessarily succeeding with that uncompromising emotive voice against hard edge electronica approach um so I'd go with you know the Tom York and the Burial perhaps as being the most influential um in terms of being my favorite weirdly I might actually go with Endless Wire by The Who partly to be controversial but it's partly for me because it was so underrated it was unusual really given that they'd not made an album for at that stage was it I'd probably put it in there in my top five Who albums and I think it's um a genuine late career ambitious statement putting in
Speaker 2your top five Who albums isn't I mean there's only about eight Who albums anyway isn't there yeah it's in my
Speaker 3top five of six Who albums yeah yeah
Speaker 2but listen I mean I think it's worth mentioning you know we're talking about what what perhaps trends or what's been the most influential perhaps that in itself has been an influence that's kind of come from that era 2006 of the Johnny Cash the Scott Walker the Who's the David Gilmour's the kind of elder statesman of rock kind of returning to what they do best and and making these kind of noble late career statements I mean we kind of started off by talking about that maybe that in itself has had an influence on the industry because so often now these days don't you you see these artists some of them are now in their 70s or even pushing 80s you know people like Paul McCartney yeah that are just basically making records that sound like Paul McCartney records and having number one records you know and that kind of stuff is going on all the time in fact Iron Maiden are likely to be number one this week with their new record so maybe that in itself is a trend that you know that comes from this this period in time this era okay cool so maybe we should leave it there Tim and say thank you very much for listening and coming back to us after all this time sorry we were we were so tardy and it took us so long to get it together again but we are hoping to come back with another episode pretty soon this time one from the 80s I believe we're going to do next indeed I'll tell you what to keep the suspense there but for now thank you very much for listening and goodbye from me and goodbye from Tim bye-bye
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