#141: The Business of Integrated Marketing Communications and Diversity w/ Entrepreneur Kim Hunter

Welcome to the Crux of the Story, the podcast where we explore the communications that shape business, politics, and our daily lives. Our host is Mike Fernandez, whose helped leaders in business, government, and other sectors address serious issues, navigate reputation challenges, and build brands and relationships. All with an eye on making a difference. Here's Mike. Welcome to the Crux of the Story. Today we are honored to have a very special guest. Mr. Kim Hunter, Kim is a trailblazing entrepreneur with over 35 years of experience in the field of multicultural integrated marketing. He is the founder of LaGrant Communications, a firm dedicated to providing innovative marketing solutions to help his clients reach diverse audiences and communities. In addition to his work with LaGrant Communications, Kim is also the founder of the LaGrant Foundation established in 1998. The foundation has made a significant impact by awarding nearly 900 academic scholarships, totaling more than $3 million to diverse talented young people who aspire to build careers in advertising marketing and public relations. Kim's commitment to diversity and inclusion doesn't stop there. In 2011, he launched KLH and Associates, an executive search firm focused on placing racially and ethnically diverse candidates in top level positions with leading companies. Throughout his illustrious career, Kim has been a passionate advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion throughout the communications industry. His dedication to mentoring and supporting the next generation of professionals is truly commendable. Kim Hunter, thrilled to have you here, my friend. It's good to be here, Mike, and I want to thank you, thank you, thank you, and I want to start off by saying for many of the listeners, Mike has been one of my biggest sponsors. Many of you may know the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. Mike Fernandez has been a Kim Hunter sponsor, so Michael, thank you, thank you, thank you. Glad to have your friendship and really thrilled to have you on today and really appreciate the impact that you made on the industry. But 35 years, that's it, that's an impressive accomplishment. Can you share the story behind the creation of the grant communications and what inspired you to start it? Absolutely, and just for a point of clarification, you are 100% right, Mike, I've been running my multicultural agency, it'll be 35 years September 1st, 2025. Oh, so we're not quite there. We don't want to add too much. No, it's all good. I have 43 years of professional work experience when you look at the time we go ahead and then where I am today. But the reason why I started the multicultural agency was really one key reason, and that is I had worked for corporate America for seven years in various roles for Fortune 200. And when I pivoted to the creative side on the agency side for one year, and I had come to the conclusion literally at the end of 1989 that it was probably in my best interest that I walk away from being an employee. And the key and become an employer. And part of that was I got to see the millions and millions of dollars. I would drive through the pipeline with corporations, whether it was the Fortune 500 or a small business. It was the rainmaker. I was the point of contact in terms of strategy and execution. And the reason why it really put me over the edge is when I realized that I don't require a lot. Money has never been my motive or my ever in my career. And I tell young people today, if you're good at what you do money will always come. And I think it's a local component, but it shouldn't be the all the key component of making a decision about your career. What it happened was I was realizing that I wasn't getting a thank you for work rendered. And that bothered me into this very day when you do some it costs nothing to say thank you nothing. And I said, I don't need your money. I don't just say thank you for work done and I move on. And I was beginning to come to the conclusion that either entity of Fortune 200, which is backster or a small business, which I came in to be the second in command and drive growth. It wasn't appreciated. And I decided, come well, go on. And people said, was that a scary transition. And I'll be honest with you, the response I have to that question is probably the response of any entrepreneur. And that is, we don't have time to think about whether it's right decision or bad decision where you scared you make a decision. I built out a business plan. It had a five year component to it. And I executed against the plan. Now the difference is as the plan moves online, you're supposed to modify the plan because there's a lot of change in the marketplace. Now I started the business in 1990. So you do the math is 2025 that's 35 years. And what happened is I started the business at the height of a recession. 10 years later was another one 2020. And as you know from economics, there's always typically a recession every 10 years. But with 2008, we went up getting one two years prior to 2010. So if you remember the big fall out in the financial world, that was 2008 versus 2010. And so I went through various ranges in the marketplace from a financial perspective. And what I did, I learned to pivot. And that's probably one of the things that I think weapon is that recognize the landscape and you got to modify. I was able to modify it and today 35 years later. Yeah, well, you know, and it's interesting because I think that world of multicultural marketing and few people actually use that term much anymore, but multicultural marketing communications. It really changed during that period of time. How did that impact what you do through the grant communications? Well, it impacted tremendously. So I started out with one target audience. So I started out with the African-American supermarket. That's the AACM. Now, as you know, Mike, you're originally from California, particularly Southern cow. I recognize the cause of my relationships with clients and my the marketplace that as I move through building the enterprise, I recognize that the Latino market was a huge market in terms of me. And the clients, whether it was Nissan, Macy's or the light came to me and says, Kim, we would really like your services in the Latino market. And that was able to build out my Latino. And to this very day, I have the African-American supermarket, the Latino market. And then the third market as we move through was the LGBTQ market because many of our clients was coming to me saying, Kim, there's an need for our messaging to be in that audience. So those are the three basic target audiences that we specialize in literally for the last 35 years. Yeah, well, and it's also been transformed. I mean, it seems as though, you know, back in like the 1990s, a lot of companies were just doing kind of identification ads. And now they're more sophisticated in terms of how they're reaching diverse audiences. Am I wrong? No, you are right. However, there are some bases there. And I'll share with you and the audience. My third two brands and I probably I'm leaving out multiple ones, but I'll say here are four brands that got it early into this very day. Still practice what they preach will start with the two major ones that are linked. McDonald's and Coca-Cola. Both McDonald's and Coca-Cola are masters. And I mean masters at multicultural. Why do I say that? They've had the same agencies for the most part over 44 years targeting both the African American and Latino markets. Why? Because they saw growth. And this is the part I threw later on will get you. But McDonald's and Coca-Cola saw an opportunity to grow their business. So it was a business case. It wasn't feel good. I want to do the right thing. It was a business case. They saw growth opportunity. And as we are in the business world, we're looking to grow our business and McDonald's and Coca-Cola has the other two unequivocally propped in gamble. Propped in gamble. Those products resonate against those two demographics exceedingly well. And they have been practicing what they preach. And it would be another brand that has reached out to the fast growing target markets. We can talk about any of the automotive company, whether that's niece nine Toyota. They were there in the very, very beginning, but Coca-Cola McDonald's and propped in gamble by far are leaders in terms of multiple. I'll tell you, here, change is within the terminology. For me, it is multicultural. I'm not changed. I'm not interested in pivoting. That is what it is. I'm sticking with it. So what are some of the campaigns you've been proud of stuff through the years through the grant communications unequivocally? My brand, my reputation is more on what we refer to when I built the agency, I built my agency model after putter and a valley. And why I say that because they had built out, they had built out the what we refer to as the social marketing issues platform. So HIV AIDS inform mortality teenage pregnancy anti smoking those are the campaigns that I am by far the most proud of because what it does, it changes a behavior that the outcome of the audience. And a case in point at the height of me building the business HIV AIDS was killing a number of African Americans Latinos by sheer numbers. And I felt compelled to get in there and tell the story of what needed to be done. And I use that analogy Mike because at the end of the day that put me on the map for social marketing issues. I want to be clear about the terminology. And when COVID came around, the best years of my career were 2020 2021 and 2022. Why? Because I took a epidemic or in a pandemic, a global pandemic that impacted Americans, but specifically more in California and was hired to launch a campaign to educate populations what they needed to do to minimize their risk. In this case, becoming a candidate to COVID and educating them over time. And that was, though, that was probably one of my best campaigns we've ever done, whether it's TV, radio, out of home, digital, played a very important and also getting into the community where you're now touching the actual audience that impacts the, you know, to drive education that impacts a behavior change. And that's the thing I think a lot of people tend to forget about advertising PR marketing because I refer to myself like as an integrated marketing communication special, not a PR guy, I'm not an advertising guy, I'm an integrated marketing communication. So back to your initial question has the marketplace changed the answer is yes, hence the reason why I built out my company in the very beginning, I recognize when a client has an issue. And if you're PR, you can only do PR, if you advertise it, you can only do advertising, I have been trained, I can produce 30 second TV spots, I can produce 60 second radio spots, I can also do crisis management and I can also do repetition management, which falls more on the PR side. Having a combination of those skillsets allowed me to build out the business and have it be sustainable 35 years later. That's terrific. I know another way in which you've made a tremendous impact in 1998, you started the little grant foundation, what motivated you to establish it? How has it evolved through the years? Mike, I'm telling you what I tell this story, people, it's surprising, how did I do it? I'll never forget it. It was in February of 1988, so it was winter everywhere else in California, as you know, we don't have a necessarily winter winter. And I've always had this love affair with reporters, and I was on the phone with a woman who was the editor in chief of PR Week. Now I'm going back down memory lane because the foundation started the exact same time, PR Week migrated to North America. In New York, where the national headquarters is for the US, and Julia Hood was the editor in chief, and I love Julia. Julia is now at business insider, and Julia and I were always talking about the lack of racial diversity in the business. And it got to a point, Mike, in all honesty, I was hearing myself respond to Julia's questions as a reporter, and we were just bantering. And I said, Julia, I got to go. And she took it as if I was irritated by her questions, and I was not irritated. I was irritated with Kim Hunter, hearing himself complain about a marketplace, and I'm sitting here saying, Kim, Mrs, you got to stop this. And she said, Julia, I'll never get to this. Kim, well, what does that mean? I said, Julia, I have no idea what I needed to talk to an attorney and talk to my CPA. I probably make her feel even more comfortable, and I hung up, and I called my attorney, and I called my CPA, and I kind of went through, here is my frustration in the marketplace, and I want to solve the problem and not continue to talk about the problem. And both of them said the exact same thing to me, Mike is, well, Kim, that sounds like a different company. And I said, let's not focus on the company. Let's focus on what the mission, because everything is you know best, Mike starts with a strategy. Here is my vision, here is my strategy. How do I move this forward? And they both came back to me maybe a week or two weeks later, set up a meeting well before virtual and said, Kim, we have given us some thought. It appears that this has to be a separate company, and I said, okay, what is that entail? They said, well, based on what you have shared with us, it sounds like a nonprofit, not a for profit. And I said, okay, and we put the paperwork together, we created the Legrand Foundation in 1898. We started awarding our first scholarships in 1989. I am so proud to say the group in the first group, if they were about ten of them, about half of them or one third of them, I still have a relationship. I mean, there are some particular Jessica, she, Jessica, she was a junior, immigrating into her senior year at UCLA in the comms department. And Julia has maintained a relationship with me, both personally and professionally, and she has reaped the benefits. She's from literally graduating from UCLA, moving on to the agent side, which is you will know is very calming, going from entail grad to agency. So she had worked for Berson, she had left Berson, moved to go work for the Oakwood studio apartment. Remember the well, we got backster, moved me into them when I moved from Minneapolis to LA and Seattle to LA. And then she left there and went to go work for Procter and Gamble. And then I was hired, my executive search room, was hired to find a director directly reporting into, in this case, to why Neptune when, to ride was at Verizon. And Jessica rose to the top of the competition. And I was able to move Jessica from LA to Baskin Ridge, New Jersey. So she went from being a manager at the well of brand, which is Procter and Gamble, to Procter and Gamble as a director of comms. And that's a prime joy because she then left there, she lost her job, she was impacted by restructuring. And then I moved to San Francisco, where she became the director of communications under Kimberly good, who was at that and this easy there. So the foundation has been a wording outcome for me and seeing kids move through the pipeline in their careers. That's great. You know, one of the things that has impressed me, I mean, I've had the pleasure of meeting some of these scholars in the past and actually hosting events with you in the past. Beyond the scholarship, you've also helped to establish mentorships for your scholars. What role do you believe that mentorship process plays in the success of these young professionals? It plays a substantial element in their career journey. Now I will share this with you Mike. In the very beginning, I shared with you that you are Kim Hunters sponsor Mike Fernandez is not Kim Hunters mentor. One, I'm probably a little bit too old to be. And I and I kind of walk through this. I am Jessica. She's sponsor. I am not her mentor. So I mentorship and sponsorship are key elements. Now you start out in the mentoring and then you matriculate to a sponsor knew yourself Mike. I know the impact you have had on people in the industry. Barry call well as one of the first ones that come to mind. You started out as Barry's mentor. You then transitioned to Barry's sponsor. And I have no doubt bearing his career was directly proportional to a micro Fernandez. And we all need one. And I think the younger generation do not quite understand the difference between the two and that you are radically different. I would rather have a sponsor any day than to have a mentor. We all need mentors in certain parts of our career journey. But at the end of the day, it's the sponsors that really can have an impact. So when I get a phone call from Chris Foster at OP or G or for a Gayle Hyman at Weber Chanwick or from any other senior level person of trotted mectronic. I know you have deep relationships down the pipeline. Is there somebody who aligns with your skillset I'm looking for. And that is probably one of the biggest joys I bring after your career is that I've had this journey of touching a variety of different entities within our profession. And then when I get that phone call about a possible role, I'm able to think through who would best fill that role. Now, Kim, as you've already noted, we've known each other very long time. And I can remember when you were scheduling meetings with agency CEOs and top execs with Fortune 200 Fortune 500 companies trying to encourage them to look at hiring diverse talent, particularly in communications rules. Is that what spurred you in 2011 to create KLH and the says, no, I'll tell you exactly Mike, how I went. Mike, I was sitting at my desk, which I want to because I have moved you figure again, I've been running my agency for 35 years, I have moved more times Mike in my journey with the agency than I have personally, I've been in my same home in Los Angeles. It will be 39 years April 9, 2025. With my agency, I have moved a total of eight times. Now, let me be clear, I was sitting in my office at 626, I will never forget it. 626, Wilshire Boulevard, that building Mike, bringing this is owned by Oscar de la Hoye. So we're talking now, a major former boxer who owns the building on Wilshire. I was sitting in my office and I got a phone call very candidly from a young woman who I noticed very day, Gwen Fisher, she was working for a company in L.A. And I got a phone call from an executive search firm saying, Kim, I want to thank you for your referral. Now this person is leaving L.A. with a newborn and her husband and transitioning to New Jersey. I said, it's my pleasure and I hang up. Mike, I cannot make this up. 45 minutes later, I got another phone call from another executive recruiter thanking me for my referral for a person that was moving this time of mail, moving his family from Houston to I believe was the Bay area. And then it was an epiphany and I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm getting thank yous from the executive search firm for my brain trust and I'm not getting anything out of it. So I said, Kim, what I'm going to do and I will tell you my I sat down with six executive search firms to privately held and four of the big boys, that's Russell Reynolds, Spencer Stewart, I goes into struggles and corn fairy and said, here is what I propose. I propose that I am your multicultural talent expertise from mid to senior roles. Mike, every last one of them said the exact same thing. It's just like they had talking points and those talking. Kim, we really appreciate your brain trust, you know, Kim, you're already running two enterprises, which, you know, if you didn't have those other two, we would hire you. That was the tail to sign. I didn't ask you to hire me. I asked you to have me as your strategic advisor as I run a lot of other companies and then I said, you know what? Enough's enough. I'll compete and that was the turning point. It was the big turning point. I had many of the fortune 100s hiring me for the chief communication officer, the chief marketing officer, the senior vice president of corporate affairs, the executive vice president of corporate affairs. And then at the end of the day, that was the reason why I did what I did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and clearly there was a gap in the marketplace because they were trying to tap you for information. The way you think about this marketplace today, what differentiates KLH from other search firms? Well, one, I have a specialization. So while my specialization is in the, what I call the multicultural component, that means the African American, the Latino, the Asian and Native American. And with a focus in advertising, we are marketing. That's my mission. What has changed is that today, CEOs are recognizing the importance of having a very talented notice how I'm leading with talent skill sets in value proposition. This is not about making the C sweep feel good was in the best interest of the enterprise. And I probably doing my journey of the last 12 years, I will be candid with you Mike that I will never forget. I got a phone call from a CEO from Methodist Le Bonner in this Tennessee saying, Kim, I was at a holiday party in Memphis. And the executive vice president of corporate affairs for Horizon Bank was there. And we, I got to talk to her. And she said that she want to hiring this agency, KLH and associates to bring in a director of comms. And I was able to pull a Latvian. Who I must be a mentee of mine from Bronx, New York to Memphis, Tennessee. And he says, I need to know who this person is. At the time, the CCO said to him, oh, well, this name is Kim Hunter. He naturally assume, which I get it. I need her information. And it's not her. It's a him. And she gave the CEO my number. And Michael called me when it's my voicemail and said, hi, I'm Michael Ugandi. I'm the CEO of Methodist Le Bonner. And I like to talk to about a role that have opened the vice president marketing comms for Methodist Le Bonner. And I want to return the call, talking to Michael. And Michael was so adamant because he wanted talent. And you and I both know, you're not going to find always not, not every time the best talent in a smaller market. So he wanted to think big. And I was able to bring a woman from Baltimore, who I had already played at North of Grumman. And she had already transitioned out of her role. She was a free agent. And I moved her from Baltimore to Memphis, Tennessee. And for me, when a CEO makes that outreach to me, that really speaks volumes. And because that thing of the day, Mike, I have no illusion. Kim Hunter is a business person first and integrated communication specialist second. The career in many ways has been built off of helping clients, understanding, connect with diverse audiences, as well as identifying, developing, and placing diverse talent into various communications, advertising, marketing, and PR jobs. And one of that, what's your reaction to President Trump's executive order targeting DE and I programs and transitioning away from them? I will say this, this is an opportunity for DEI, DEIB, the belonging, whatever you want to call it, this is an opportunity. And again, I look at every crisis as an opportunity. As an opportunity, while I am not an advocate of the current administration's approach to DNI, more specifically to your question, I think it's an opportunity for people to step back. Now, let me be clear, I am not a DNI person. I've always struggled with DNI. And let me tell you the why. DNI was created to keep Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton off of a CEO or brands back. That is not a good reason to bring on or tell the story of why you should have a diverse equity and inclusion enterprise or team within your operation. There was never a connection with those three words to the business. Now, how I look at DNI, I look at DNI more as Donald, Erica, and Ivanka. So I look at DNI as those three words in the marketplace and I said, how do they handle who they are and the impact they have on their businesses? For me, I say it's an opportunity for the industry at large and across the board to take a closer look of the why DNI was created. And what impact and what measurement tools, because you and I both know data analytics has played a critical part of our craft that was not there 15, 20 years ago, it is today. So how do we measure. So for me, it's about the measurement component. Why do we do what we do and what is the impact on the business. So again, it's an opportunity for people to step back, assess and decide what is in the best interest. And again, I go back to the brands that have been doing. And again, you can use the words diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging all you want. I always go back, what is the business case and I use Costco. As you know, I went to undergrad in Seattle, Washington, Costco is based in the Seattle region that Costco boarded directors and the Costco executive leadership team with the helm of the CEO has made it made it very clear it was as well as the board. We're not back in the way because it has had a major impact on the business. Jamie Diamond, who is one of my favorite CEOs that Jamie Diamond is clear, it has had a positive impact on my business, we're not getting rid of it. That speaks volumes when you have businesses saying that then you have others that probably got tripped up into the whole executive order. And it's a tragedy. And I use target is probably the biggest one. Mike, you lived in Minneapolis, I went to Grand School in the Twin Cities, I lived in the Twin Cities, target has always been a part of the fabric of the diversity, equity, inclusion. It has always been a fabric of the Twin Cities, it has been a fabric of the United States in terms of buyers going into their stores and seeing products that reflect their consumer base. So while target has missed the boat, so to speak, they're not going to get rid of many of the programs that has had an impact on the business. At some point, multigultural, they got it long time ago that their consumer base, they drove revenue. And as long as it's driving revenue and impacting the PNL, impacting the stock, they're going to do it. And McDonald's, McDonald's made that comment, they're going to modify change, you know what, and people doesn't worry you. And my response is, no, it doesn't. They will give lip service to appease the current administration, but in reality, they're going to do what's wrong for their business. They got to reach out to a diverse consumer base. It's going to buy product. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, what challenges, I guess, do you see for these companies is they're dancing, trying to modify what they're doing? Do you think they'll still stay focused on their marketplace? I think they will. I really truly believe my, and I've seen it. I've companies are calling me saying, "Kill, this is where we are." Now, part of the challenges, and I get it, with an Amazon in particular, Amazon has a huge client base with the federal government. So, if you have the federal government saying, "You need to get rid of these programs or it's going to impact the bottom line," they're going to do what they need to do. I get that. Okay, I'm a business person. I said repeatedly throughout this program. But at the end of the day, Amazon is a big partner of ours. And at the end of the day, they're going to do what is best for their consumers, they're going to do best with their shareholders, and they're going to keep driving and impacting the bottom line. So, while things are being said from an exterior perspective, the question is, we forget the internal component. So, is the only base going to be, "It's okay for us to make those modifications and impact the business," highly doubted. Right, right. Now, people hear our voices. Obviously, they know my last name. So, the assumption is that I'm Latino, but others listening may not know that you are black. I'm curious, how do your personal experience, how they shaped your career and your approach to communications and leadership? Interesting question, Mike. My takeaway is, because I've lived in so many different places, I was born and raised in Philadelphia, I'm one of 11 children, I'm the only one with the college education, I'm one of the few with the high school diploma. And I saw the power of media as a young kid growing up in the west side of Philadelphia. And when I started applying to colleges and universities, I knew in order for me to move my life first, right, because if you improve your life, you will improve your outcome of your business. I then left Philly and went to Seattle, Washington. And I did that on one way ticket. I had never flown in my life. So, I was 18 years old when I left Philadelphia and went to Seattle. So, I was exposed to a variety of new cultures, new ways of thinking, and then I was recruited off campus at that time by American Hospital Supply Corporation, which is now in Baxter, and they moving to LA. And while I was in LA, I got, again, I was exposed to different cultures, different viewpoints, then I was recruited by the same company and asked to transition to the Twin Cities. And while I was there, I was starting graduate school, and with they paid 100% of it, and allow me to go to Central America to perfect my languages in the writing, and then move me back to LA into market management at the age of 25, managing 53 million dollars of revenue. So, for me, my experience is based on geography, different experiences in work, and I tell people all the time, you may want to pivot yourself to one area when you're first starting out. You know what, I have no doubt, I'm in a strong sales background, a small market research background, very early in my career, put me in the place I am today, because I'm able to synthesize, analyze, dissect, or audience, and see how I can make sure that I can relate to them, because I get it, most of us are comfortable with those they have in common. And I'm more driven by being around people that are different than me, and how do I have that conversation? I mean, Micah, at the age of 21, I go from LA to Minneapolis, I had North Dakota, South Dakota, Western Wisconsin, I know my experiences are so vast and so different than most Americans will ever have, but sitting in North Dakota, Bismarck, North Dakota, and sitting in what I refer to as why not my night, North Dakota, or the western part of Oclair, Wisconsin. It was a change agent of my life, and just being exposed to different things, like I learned to appreciate the opera when I was in Minneapolis, I eat an encariment. I mean, you told my inner city boy having an appreciation for opera, Minneapolis exposed it to me, I learned the water, I had a fear of water, to this very day, I'm your classic African American, who in majority not all, do not know how to swim. But Micah, I know how to water ski, I know how to jet ski, goes on Lake Minotanka, that gave me the opportunity of wearing a vest that gave me comfort and water that my feet didn't touch the ground that allowed me perfect of water skiing and jet skiing. So for me, it's about my life experiences, and those life experiences has positioned me where I am today to appreciate so many differences of people's point of view. People say, well, Kim, what party do you belong to? You've been appointed by Republicans in California, you've been appointed by Democrats, and I said, I've been an independent since I was what the first year I was allowed to vote 1980. Now people said, well, that's interesting. What was it about that scenario that made you become an independent? And I said, you know what, I knew at 18 years old, I didn't fit in what people wanted me to be. I wanted to kill, I am independent, I am independent thought, and I can bring that independent thought to whatever you both personally professionally, and I'm very proud of that, because I am not going to bad mouth and are, and I'm not going to bad mouth at D. I, when you come to me, Dick Reardon was probably my best example. He was the mayor of the town, Bradley. I served seven years and I'm pointy, and he's as is one of his commissioners, and people naturally connected. Oh, Kim must be a Republican, because he was appointed by Republican. And I'm like, that is so juvenile, and it doesn't connect the dots at all. As you know, L.A. as a democratic city, but who succeeded town, Bradley, after 20 years, was dick reared into this very day. Dick Reardon is one of the best mayor's lost Amphids has ever seen to this very day. So for me, I can be appointed by Republican. I'm one of Karen senior advisors as the mayor of lost, I'm about if I Democrat, she's my former vice woman. But at the end of the day, they're coming to me for my brain trust, in my point of view, and I allow them to pick and decide what pieces of that brain trust they think is best for them as they move through their roles. And I'm good with it. I took my team off it. They get so worried. They said, Kim, when you say it, they listen to you. And I said, one, you got to be passionate about it, and you have to show a great deal of conviction. And I'm okay with a CEO or CCO or CMO says, Kim, I appreciate it, but we're going to go a different direction because they're going to have information that I may not have. That when I provide them my council, it doesn't align with the business. Well, you have made a change and didn't make it public to me. And I'm okay with that. But I was team always remember the work that we do is intellectual property. And as long as you're constantly thinking it's showing value, clients will always appreciate that. And I'm a big believer. Another kind of semi personal question is you effectively are running three unique businesses. You teach as an adjunct professor at a university. And you serve on a number of boards. How do you balance it all? Well, point for clarification, I'm no longer teaching. I did that in the early 90s. So I stopped. I was growing my business, but it was one of the best things Mike that ever happened to me. And I encourage all, if you have the time, give back academically education was the key social responsibility. And it's very Dave for Kim Kim has four of them is the number one education in terms of running the three separate enterprise. You're right. My bookings are for profits. My middle one is a nonprofit. And the difference is Mike people do ask the question all the time, Kim, how do you do it? I said, I'll be honest with you is what is challenging as it appears. And let me give you context. Notice that all three enterprises mission is pretty much the same. It's the three target audiences, right? Okay. And the advertising PR marketing is what my craft is for 43 years. So as a result, I'm just merging those elements into various entity. Any given moment, I could be switching from providing counsel to a CEO or CCO or a CMO on the agency side, to say, Kim, we're having some challenges with entry level college kids. And we really want to really capture that Gen Z market from the industry. Give us your thought. I then pivot to the not profit. And then I can sit and be and he says, Kim, we have an open role. This is very real as of today. Can we have an open role on our team? It's a vice president role reporting to a senior vice president of a fortune 15. Do you have any possible thoughts of a candidate? I then pivot to the college and associates, which is my executive search firm. So for me, Mike, I will tell people that is the reason why I'm able to go in and out of the three enterprises. Now where I would not be able to and I use this analogy because cooking for those who know me, I love to entertain. I love to cook and I've been doing it for a long, long time. So this Sunday is Oscar Sunday. I do my annual Oscar Sunday so Ray and what that is. Well, it's been hand picked by me that will come by to the home and watch the Oscarsers from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. You must have your balance completed prior to entering the own. And then there was a first, second and third prize. There's plenty of food and plenty of wine and champagne. That's it. I don't do any of the drinks because that's what the drinks that matter most to me. So serious question. What's your odd one favorite for the best motion picture? Oh, unequivocally. I'm still here. It's all for best picture. Now Mike, I'm not a surprise to you. My master's is in business with the emphasis in Latin America that movie is about the dictatorship when Brazil had a dictatorship. So this woman, Fernanda, she's enough for best actress, but the movie I'm still here is about that time. Period. And I love that movie. Now, subtitle report is in English, but as you know, Brazil is the Portuguese country. So what advice would you give to a young professional who is now interested in pursuing careers in advertising, marketing, and public relations? And are there any nuances or anything different if that individual is from a diverse background? Become a great listener. One of the things I remember when I worked for corporate America, and it surprises people when I say this story, I said, I remember one of my managers put me through a two day listening seminar sent me from LA Chicago. And it was a change at just listening to people's points of view. You don't have to agree with them, but listen, be an active listener. And I think that will set a young person up for whatever they want to do. If they want to be in theater, they could pivot the theater. I say use that as a analogy because I love theater. It's okay. You want to be an architect. That's okay. But if you want to be an advertising to your market, it's the same principles. Become a veracious reader. I still read text books. And I'm amazed when I'm interviewing candidates, whether for my client on the executive search firm or for my own enterprises. I said, talk to me about the last book you read. And why did you do see the read that? And when I get the respect will come beyond you, I have not read a book. That surprises me and disappoints me because the art of reading allows you to perfect your oral and your written communication skills. And it also opens your mind up to possibilities. And that's what is all about the possibilities. So what I'm talking to a young person who's currently an undergrad or grad. And they're saying, Kim, what are those forms that you would encourage me to focus on the ability to write is key. I tell people, I love English majors. Why? If you are the fundamentals of subject verb direct object, you can pretty much do anything you want in terms of writing. So for me, if you write well, that will be a key indicator is a direct correlation, not indirect to speaking well, that's key. The others is really learning to be know who you are. What are some of your strengths? The analytical students, the critical thinking skills are woefully lacking in business. And how do you get those skills? And I tell you, I remember taking statistic and undergrad and grad. And I never understood my then as I do today. Why I did 3.8 out of 4 4.0 in stats and undergrading grant because that was the one course that everybody struggling. And it's the decision. The what if scenario. So this is what do you do. So I always try to counsel my clients is prepare for the worst. Because if you prepare for the worst and plan for it. So if there is going to be an accident, what are your tools in your toolkit that you can pull out and then plan now to mitigate the worst possible activity. And at the end of the day, I've been heard by many of the Fortune 500s in crisis that they could have completely avoided if they would have done the right thing in the very beginning and they did not. Wow, that's terrific. Quickly last last quick question is what's the last book that you read and what would you recommend would you recommend it? Oh, the last of what the current book that I'm currently raising is the book by our goal on basically what is it. It's basic trust. Do consumers have trust in these enterprises. Now we know about you know the Edelman trust barometer which I'm a big advocate. I think which is one of the most brilliant people I have ever known in my career. But I will tell you our goal is book because I was in Chicago. And I was meeting with goal and because goal is a client of my security search firm. And I saw these books lying around in the Chicago office. And I asked I said, do you mind if I have these books. I read the first seven chapters on the flight back from Chicago to LA and then finish the book over the weekend. So for me, learning and also developing additional skills that will teach me to provide value to my clients and my donor partners with the foundation is going to be key. So I'm reading up a brain now from Al goal and from the old goal in inheritance. Thank you, Kim Hunter. Been a delight to have you on with us. Thank you, Mike. It's you're a good man. And for those I for those who really don't know and have the fortunate the story I tell about Mike Fernandez that really spoke volumes about who he is as a person is that Mike. He mentioned earlier he was supporting the Le Grand Foundation when he was at Cargo and he was Mike chair in the twin city. And we had to go back and forth planning and Mike and I were having breakfast and one of the trips and Mike looked at me and said, Kim, I would like for you to consider not staying in hotels anymore. I want you to stay at my home and that speaks volumes when you invite people to your home. It speaks volumes about who you are as a person. And I said, well, Mike, I'm traveling with my staffer and you looked at me and said, well, Kim, she's invited as well. And to the day when Mike invited me and my team member to stay at his plus to have dinner with his family, it told me about who he is as a person because at the end of the day, we all know he's bright. He's analytical. He's created. He's innovated, but Mike has a soul and bringing people into your home in Wazeta spoke volumes to me who you are as a person. So that I will never forget. That's Mike take away about Mike Fernandez. Thank you. And again, congratulations on your coming 35 year anniversary at Le Grand Communications is coming September. And many thanks for all you do to encourage that the advertising marketing and PR worlds better understand and better reflect the audiences they seek to connect with. Thanks to all of you who are listening, this podcast is brought to you from the Kennedy Greenhouse studio at the University of South Carolina School of Journalism and Mass Communications. We look forward to being with you next week when we'll explore yet another crux of the story. Thanks for listening to the crux, a production of the School of Journalism and Mass Communications in association with the Kennedy Greenhouse studio at the University of South Carolina. You can find our episodes on SoundCloud, iTunes and Spotify or by visiting our website thecruxpodcast.org.