#13 Anja Savcic

You have to be a little bit cracked to be an actor because you go to these auditions and you either don't hear anything or they blatantly are like, no. And you're like, it's okay. It's going to be the next one, you know? And it's like, there's something that is a little off with you to just be like, it's okay. Like, I'm going to book the next, you know? You got, and that's the persistence I'm talking about where it's just like, you, you convince yourself that you're like, no, I have something to offer and I'm going to try again. Thank you so much for coming here today. Thank you for having me. So everybody, this is Anya, Safchich. And I've known you for almost a decade, but we never were friends. Sure. We worked on one movie that movie a long time ago. And what I think is so fantastic about your career is that you are a great drama actress and comedy. Thank you. And you have done both of those things. And I love comedy. I love, I love drama. But I think it's really amazing that you can have that versatility. And now having known that you've been in the industry for so long and worked on these great shows like Louder Milk and Ricky Stenicke. I just imagine that you've kind of developed a process. Yeah. And so from, you know, when was the first time that you thought that this could be a career for you? Well, it took me a long time to feel like it was actually going to be a career because I think when you're starting out and even when you get that first role, you're like, it still feels so impossible. The mountain feels so high, you know. But then like the more you do it and the more roles you book, you're kind of like, okay, like maybe this isn't career. Maybe I don't need like another job. Maybe this could be the job. But I didn't feel that way and stable until I booked Ladder Milk. Yeah. Because it was my first series regular. So I was, I was like, oh my god, I have like actual, I'm a lead of a show. And then once it started to continue and had a couple seasons, I was like, oh, like I'm actually doing this. So it was really surreal because I'm just not feeling of like living your dream and you're like in it and you're thinking, oh, I did it. But now that I have like other goals and other things I wanted to just kind of just the stakes keep raising. It's funny because we don't have careers in the industry where you're on a job and you'll have that job for 10 years, like some careers. You're kind of going gig to gig. So that creates that kind of like angst and pressure. But then if you look back 10 years or I look back and I go 10 years ago, I would kill to be doing what I'm doing now. And so it's this funny kind of, you have moments of gratitude, I think. Yeah. And then because you have to take breaks in the industry and you know, there's like a strike or you go on holidays, you take up months off between shows. Yeah. You have to manage it between those shows. I think that's one of the hardest parts is people think we have so much time off, but it's like that time off is kind of you're waiting, right? You don't want to go on the trip because you're like, well, what if I book that thing or I have an audition or so it's kind of like you also have to let go and live your life and enjoy those breaks, which is weirdly stressful. Yeah. It is and turn it off. Yeah. And like with my wife, like I was just recently thinking about it and realizing like, don't be all about business all the time. Yeah. You know, we have to find time to just be romantic on a date, you know, and not think about it. Yeah. But it's hard because this business is always going and you're saying people like, oh, that person's doing this, that person's inspiring. So you also like it. You know, it's not like you're doing something you really don't want to be doing. Well, I think it probably happens to a lot of people, but you get an opportunity sometimes, I don't know about you, but I've had the phone ring. And they asked if kind of you can start tomorrow. Yeah, right. And so you're kind of always keyed up a little. Yeah. For that. You're always on like the edge of your seat, you know, you're like something coming and then. Yeah. Or you think you're going to get a good audition or those are the worst when you're like waiting for something. You're like, oh, my God, I might book this thing or like I'm shortlisted or whatever. And you're like imagining your whole life. You're living somewhere else. So you know, you have this whole other set of friends and your life has changed and then just it, you know, you don't get it. And then you're like, whoa, no, like it's hard because you don't want to jump too much into that fantasy. But at the same time, that could be your reality. So it's like, you have to find that line. But the more you imagine it, the more the more it hurts when you don't book it. So it's just like, oh, finding that balance always. Yeah. And then the other thing that's interesting, I think, you know, Richard Harmon. Yeah. He did this podcast and he said, it's not about the jobs, not about like when you're actually acting. Because that's really quite fun if you're preparing and you're excited. And you know, the scene, the jobs about the time in between or acting on the 12th hour of the day or waiting and training and going to class or appreciating some movie when you're not working. Yeah. Or managing your money. It's all because you have to know you're not going to work for a bit or you're going to do a passion project to make five grand. Yeah, totally. I also, I like to say that persistence is the main key because if you keep going, so many people drop out early. Yeah. You know, and I think also the older you get, a lot of people end up giving up. And I'm like, I'm happy to be like the grandma. That's like there at that. Yeah. You know, like playing those parts because it's just like, I like it. And I'm going to keep, I can't imagine not doing it. I think I would just be so sad. I think I'd turn on my TV and see like my friends and be like, oh, no. Oh, yeah. Why is that not me? Why am I not joining them? Totally. So. I don't think I'll ever stop in this business like until I die. No, it's a dicting. Yeah. I can see how people retire, but I don't think I'll retire. No. I just imagine I'll constantly be interested even in trying to develop whatever I'm doing or in some capacity having like a professional work related. Photography trip or whatever it is. Yeah. I also feel like it's a little bit like, it's a little bit like gambling this job. You know, you're betting on yourself all the time. I remember I saw this podcast. They were talking about actors and they were saying how you have to be a little bit cracked to be an actor because you go to these auditions and you either don't hear anything or they blatantly are like, no. Yeah. It's going to be the next one. You know, and it's like there's something is a little off with you to just be like, it's okay. Like, I'm going to book the next one. You know, you got, and that's the persistence I'm talking about where it's just like you, you convince yourself that you're like, nope, I have something to offer and I'm going to try again. And eventually someone's like, yeah, okay, you, I'm going to take a chance on you and you're like, oh my god. But then it's the next step, which is like, now prove yourself, right? Now really show up and do a great job. And you have to deliver. And the pressure is a whole other aspect of it, I think. Do you find at the end of a show, it's harder like after you've been acting for, or maybe at the end of the week. Like if you've had a really long week, do you find that? Harder in what way? Well, like your energy is low, so you find it harder to connect emotionally in a moment. Or do you feel like you have to draw on reserves or what do you do to, to, to keep up your level, like your standard? How do you keep your bar high as you're getting to the end of a season or the end of a, or the end of the long. That long show. I think it also depends on the genre you're doing. Like if you're doing something comedic, I think you just have to be really well rested and in tune with your instincts. But if you're doing drama, like I did, I did Big Sky, which was a very dramatic show. And every scene I was in, you know, something's really high stakes is happening. So that was really exhausting because it's like, every day you go to work, you're like, invite or flight in your scene, right? And it's hard to come down from that. But when I'm working on something like, you know, like, loud or milk or Ricky Stencky, which is much more fun, it's so collaborative. And so it's like, you're just feeding off each other and it almost like brings your energy up. Right. So when you go home, it's like a, you're almost like trying to come down where you finish something really dramatic. You're trying to like, lift yourself back up. Right. So it's like those two different things. Yeah. No, I definitely know. I find after a successful day on set, especially if it's something that I'm like in charge of. Yeah. It's difficult to like, you're just so elated, I guess, that a little doubt or it's so, it's such a, yeah, it's a, it's a, you feel high. It's a rush. I was going to say, yeah, it's a rush. It's a rush. Take some minute to come down. I find also, yeah, sometimes when I work on projects, it takes me time to decrease my, I don't know, my high. But that's hard, too, because if you go really high, then you kind of can end up really low. So how do you not get into like a depressive state, you know? How to try and stay level balanced. How do you stay balanced the whole way? But then I like the high. So it's like, everyone does. I need the low. Yeah. So, okay, let's say that you had a script and it's a drama like Big Sky, where you know it's going to be intense. Okay. What are you doing when you're, when, what tools do you use and what kind of education have you found? I know you talked a little bit about using different techniques from, was it Stanislavski? Yeah, like I like with Stanislavski where you're asking a lot of questions. You know, you're figuring out the who, the why, the what your character needs. You know, those are really important to ask. But then I think what I like is when I'm on the set. And once I've answered those questions for myself, I understand the scene. I understand the purpose of my character and the scene where the story is going. Then I can kind of let that go. And just be in the moment and be instinctive, which is where like the Myzner comes in or like Uda Hagen's really big on just like listening, right? Reacting and also using your own, using your own experiences to connect to the character. I really like that. So, is that prep when you use? Yeah. I feel like that's more in the moment thing. Right. And you know what else I really like is connecting with your scene partner. Sometimes you have someone that's just in it with you. And then when it goes action and you're just in the scene and they call cut and you come out and you're both like, where were we? That is the high that I love. That's like the feeling I chase because it's like you're completely somewhere else. You are really someone else, you know? And I don't know. It's like nothing better than that to me. That's just like such a thrill. Yeah, it's funny. I get excited just hearing you talk about it and I'm not an actor, but I know I'm chasing it or we're looking for it. And you can see it and it gets really exciting when you see that happen. You can feel it. You can feel it. Everyone can feel it. Yeah, like really good scenes or even really good moments just make everybody stop and pay attention. Yeah. And a lot of the times you know sets are interesting, right? Because there's such a mix of personalities and people. Yeah. There's like the blue collar kind of types. There's some people who don't care about the show at all. Yeah. And then there's people who are really cinematic and totally in it. And there are some who are very seriously in it. True. And you know, maybe like the producers who have all the money on the line and they get stressed out or something like that can happen. So it brings all these people together but want a really good performance is happening. Everyone shuts up. Everybody shuts up. I know. And then I think that's the moment where I'm like, oh, this is why we're here. Yeah. Like when everything's come together, not just the acting but the set's working. Yeah. You know, the lighting's perfect. Yeah. And the camera's moving and it's with the scene. You're just like, oh, like what a feeling when all of it connects. Yeah. But it's so hard for. It's so crazy that we can make anything because we bring together like 200 people. And we say you're doing this department and everyone's in the department and there's different personalities and people that don't get along. People that do get along. Some people are falling in love and like, you know, it's like that you're so much happening. That's right. You know, yeah. So it's just like, what a place. And then there we all like create this memory because we're there together 12 hours a day. You get to know people so deeply. And something I really struggle with is letting go of those relationships sometimes because you get so close to people. Yeah. You know, and you connect so much. And then it's like, oh, you never see that person again or rarely, you know. But you had this like experience together. It was really intense experience together. That's very unique. Like it's very, I think it's very unique. Yeah. I've worked in different jobs. You know, I'm just a server. Yeah, same. I served on a ferry boat in New Zealand and things like that. And there's a nice camaraderie that you get. I'm sure it a lot of places have worked. But with film because there's like every now and then there's like a car crash or there's this intense thing that's happening that is abnormal. And or you're traveling up a mountain or someone's diving underwater. Yeah. And, you know, the camera guys are like, we got it. And you're like, I know. It's such a thrill. Even to people who just want to go home. They're like, yes, we can go home. Yeah, right, right, right. When you can get that thing in one take. And everyone's like, yes. Yeah. I remember I did this. I did this scene in Big Sky where they wanted to get an extra shot. And they were like, oh, no, it would be so cool if you had like one tear run down your cheek. It would be so cinematic. And I was like, all right, I'll try. And so I'm like standing there and we're like doing the scene. And I just have this one tear roll down my face. And I was like, yes, I did it. And then they called cut it. Everyone was like, yes. And I was like, yeah, they'd never ended up even using it. But it was just so funny that I was like really crap. Like it was like so cool. We were all in it together. It was cool. Waiting to see if we could have it. That's really cool. I like actually operating camera a little bit because I've only got back into this after being on set so much. And seeing that they're really like the camera operators are really sometimes doing nothing. But sometimes they're dancing with the actor. And they're like, oh, steady cams. Steady cams are hard. And it's hard to find a good steady cam operator. Because they have to get what they have to feel how you're looking to the other person. And there's entire shows that are a bit like live like that. Succession is one or Friday night lights is another word. Yes, I loved how that was shot. I loved that. I guess even the office, right? Yeah, the cameras its own character. Parks and Rec does it too. Yeah, the office is really good at it. Of course. They feel like you're kind of creeping in on these characters in a real way, in this voyeuristic way. And so the camera opts. They really have to be kind of connected artistically to the moment. Yeah. They're in it. They're in it with you. It's so cool. They're the front line. Yeah. So who in your life supported you, I think you mentioned that you had some support from your family. And who else was a big mentor? Yeah. Well, my dad was really big on helping me get into acting. He had met some guy randomly who was an actor and had asked him like, oh, like where should my daughter go? And I ended up going to this acting school, film acting school, and I got an agent through that, which was really cool. So he was really supportive. But in terms of people I look up to, there's so many talented people. You know, I love. Marion Cautillard is one of my favorite actresses. I watched two days one night. Have you seen that movie? I haven't. I saw that a VIF many years ago. And I just remember I left the theater going, wow. I hope I can one day even get somewhat close to what she does because she's just so good. She's so tapped in. It's amazing to watch. So I love her. Kate Winslet. I love Titanic. It was like a movie I was obsessed with when I was a kid. She's so great. I think I watched that a million times. She's good in everything. She's good. Mary of Easttown. I randomly started when it came out. But I'm just so drawn to her. She's so real and grounded. There's something cool too about how she hasn't done much to her face. She looks the age she is. And there isn't a lot of hiding that. And I don't know that there needs to be. Diane Keaton's like that. Oh my god. And still super talented. I know. She's amazing. I love her. Yeah. There's a lot of inspirational actors out there. But some of them that are just, they just show up and they're so good every time. I mentioned when we were talking before Kate Blanchett. I find it isn't her so great because she's so prickly and she's great at doing it. Oh yeah. So she finds. She has like a regleness to her that she just can bring out. The no one can do in that same way. You know. And like Julie Roberts has a bit of that now. Not for her. Different energy. But like, she's so likable. I also find Kate Hudson. In almost famous. I rewatched that. And I couldn't stop looking at her. I just, she lights up the screen. It's amazing. Yeah. Do you think that you have. How do you think about that with yourself? Oh my god. Do you have things or. Oh yeah. That's me. I know why they called me. Or are you a chameleon? I like to think I'm a chameleon. But I'm sure. It's hard to know how other people see you. So all I know is like the things I go out for. Like, oh, there's that kind of role again or something. For some reason, since I was young, I. I booked a lot of parts where like I was pregnant. Or I had a child. And I was like, do I have like some young mom vibe? Like what is going on? But I also know obviously, like those are big life events. And those happen in shows and TV. But that always made me laugh. I would get like a role where someone's pregnant. My friends would like, of course, you booked that. You know. And I was like, why? Why am I always with a child? Yeah, so you think that you're pretty much. I think. I mean, I don't know your career as well as you do. But I think that you have like a versatility. I think so. Yeah. But then, you know, are you going to get like the tough military girl? Right. There's some. I'm trying to think of roles that you wouldn't get right. Which is also like, is that insulting to you? Well, no, I don't think so. And what's interesting is when I auditioned for Louder Milk, I'm pretty sure that casting here in Canada didn't want to see me for it. But my manager from the States got me in. And, you know, I sent this tape or whatever, and then I got a call back. And I thought it was interesting because I remember getting the part and being like, well, I can't do this. Like I just don't think I could do this. The drugs and that. Yeah, I'm like, you know, she's like a stripper. And she's, you know, has tattoos. And I was like, how the, what am I going to do? So one of my friends, who she has more of like a tougher energy, I would say, I was like, I need your help. You know, like, can you come to my taping? So she did. And then she kind of also helped coach me and stuff. And I just kind of tried to pull into that energy. And I found something. And then when I got it, I just remember being there, being like, how did I get this? Like, how am I here? Like, do I fit this? But it was cool because they didn't know me. All they knew was the tape I did and the call back I did. Where I feel like sometimes when you're a part of a certain city and a part of a certain. They knew you more. They think, oh, well, she wouldn't fit that. Because they know they see your life. But then that also makes you feel like I can't fit that. But what was cool is I kind of skipped past that. And I went to people that didn't even know me. And then I got to be like, well, let me push myself, you know? And then that got me the part, which is cool. So it's like kind of, I guess the lesson is don't limit yourself, you know? And even push for the things that, like the military character. Maybe I could, right? I could find that. I could research it. Well, just a contesting in zero dark 30. I don't know the same way. Absolutely, yeah. Like, she doesn't seem at first. Like, she would play a CIA analyst out on the ground and then you buy it. But she's in tree of life playing this like beautiful mom and like, you know? And then she's this tough woman and the other maybe. I like that answer. I asked Cassandra know that answer. And she said the same thing. She said generally it helps a little bit if you're starting maybe. And then she kind of backed it up and she's like, no, someone's looking for a role. They just haven't seen you yet. Yeah. And if maybe you're that person for that role and you walk in and you nail it, that can happen because acting classes are very strange places. And I've done a couple. And one of them, I remember being like, this seems like brutal. How they're getting everyone on stage. And the class was asked by the teacher to say, what do you think this person looks like? Looks like. And some of the answers were a little bit rude, right? OK. Mom was like an alien, you know? And I was just thinking like, is that rude? I don't know. But the acting class environment is so strange anyway that it feels like you just have to be open. And it's not like, I guess it's a safe space to use that word. I mean, it can be. I'd say it's not always. Yeah. I think you have to be careful who you choose to go to. Because it really depends what works for you to. Some people like the more intense teacher that's like, no, like do this. And I don't like that. I like a more gentle approach. Because I think our self-esteem's are already so fragile when we're doing this job. And I also think it's important not to get reliant on someone else. If every tape, you're like, I have to see this coach or I have to have this coach on set. Well, no, this is your performance, you know, you can get input and like have someone help you. But you should feel comfortable enough to be able to handle your own role in your own part. And I think that can be tricky because people can get really dependent. And that person is who made my career a nap. It's like, no, it's you. You know? Yeah. I think that's great advice for anybody just to recognize like coaching and other techniques. And like, Meisner and the classic, the classic coaches are great. But you're the one who has to show up and do it and connect. And then it's your win, you know? And maybe in the beginning, you need more help. And you need, you know, someone to help you technically, like, how to, where to look. And how to sell a kiss on an audition or whatever. Okay, wait. Those things are so awkward. How do you do that? How do you do that? I find when, whenever they're like, oh, you need to hug someone or kiss someone, I usually just take like a small step forward and kind of like have a moment. And, and then I kind of step back and maybe they're like embarrassed in the scene or whatever and play that moment. But to actually be like, you know, puckering or something. It's so awkward. Like, it's not working. Like, don't please don't do that. Oh my god. That just brings back high school memories for me, like trying and failing. Oh my god. Sorry. Yeah, it's brutal. But I mean, that's why it's an interesting scene too. Because that moment where one person usually goes. Yeah. And then the other person kind of is like, are they looking at my lips? Yeah. Richard Harman also gave another tip. It wasn't on this podcast. He was telling me at Dylan's wedding. Yeah. That when he, I think I asked him, how do you play when you're really mad at another guy? And he goes, I just look at their lips and I pretend I'm going to kiss them. And he's like, what? And he goes, I, I live triangle or something like that. And he's like, it ends up looking threatening. Oh, he's so good at playing threatening. He's good. I remember a long, long time, governor and Richard forever. I remember him telling me, because he plays a lot of villains. He used to tell me he would go, head down, eyes up. And that would like make him look kind of evil. Yeah, sinister. Yeah, sinister. And it's a good tip. Yeah. No, he's good. I love that he likes, he said it's fun, like, to play the bad guy. He was joking about how much it's more fun than playing the hero. I think it is. It's usually more interesting, because the hero sometimes is, is the audience. You know, like, he's the, or she is the way we see the movie. But the evil bad person is usually a little more layered and, you know. And to do it well or to write it well, they should have an argument that some people, and even maybe yourself, every now and then says, well, he's kind of got a point there. Yeah. You know, like, he should empathize a bit. His philosophy has, like, a result, which I wouldn't get to. But I can see, like, you know, what they're saying. Or at least it's nice to explore those ideas in a movie and the safety of a movie through other characters. You know, like the Joker pinning the two boats of criminals against each other. Saying, you know, what do they call that? The soldier's dilemma or something. Whoever fires first dies. So do you both fire at the same time? Or do you both walk away? Hmm. So that's a good question. With acting and comedy, I was going to ask, what was the first comedy that you, like, loved, like the first comedy that you saw? And why is it that you've done these comedies and are so good at those? Thanks. Good question. God, I don't know. I think probably, like, Dumb and Dumber was something I saw really early on. I loved bridesmaids when it came out. Oh, super bad, actually. It was probably one of my first movies that I laughed so hard I almost cried, like in the movie theater, because it was just so spot on with high school. It was just so, like, I'd never seen something so absolutely accurate to the high school experience. So that blew me away. But I also feel like I'd never really chose comedy. I feel like it kind of just happened, which is cool. But it's also a genre that I just love, like I want to do forever. Because, like, I was saying before, it's not as heavy, obviously. And when you go to work, you're collaborating, you're laughing, you're having fun. And you go home with, like, a nice high rather than when you're doing a drama. And it's obviously, I love both, but it's just, it's more draining, right? You have to really reserve yourself. And, you know, you're probably not going to go, like, to the party on the weekend. But when you're doing the comedy, you're like, maybe I'll go. And it's like, it brings up your energy. So there's something really fun about that. But yeah, I never really chose it. And I think most actors, especially when they're starting, it's like, you're not really choosing your parts. People go, oh, why did you pick this character? You're like, I auditioned and I booked it. Like, I don't know. I didn't pick this. You know? That's the job. I think as you get more established, you can say no to things you don't want. But you still aren't always saying yes to the exact things you want. Because you don't know if you'll get them. So we all have to take jobs and get it funny. Exactly. And so I find that funny too. Like, there's like a, you don't know if the movie is going to turn out good, even though the script might be great. Or you love the script. Or vice versa. That too. That's so true. But with comedy, I think what you're saying, a moment ago is so true that onset, everyone has to be chill. Yeah. Or else it's not going to work. Be relaxed. And the crew experienced crews know that and they know like to create and foster that environment. And I think that's like a really special thing that production people don't get enough credit for. Shout out to all the production people who know like to create a good environment. So the actors can have more time to act. And another take, you know, there's another saying from directors is like, there's not a director in the world who wouldn't cut off their arm for one more take. You know, like at the end of the day, like, oh, we just, you didn't get that shot. Yeah. But there's some directors that are like, we got it, you know, like Peter Farley is very, we got it. Well, let's move on. You know, he doesn't milk the scene. He's like, we guy know the moment and he'll come up and be like, hey, like less, like one less second here before you say this line, he'll be funnier. And, you know, he finises it. But then he's like, yeah, we got it. And I think that's really cool to know what's right to and not just be doing takes for takes. Yeah. No, I fully agree that you don't need a lot of takes if you have good cast and a good script. And that's kind of one of the harder lessons, I think, that at least taking me to learn is that if you are kind of filling a role, because I think that's the other challenge what's said is things change and people shift and the schedule changes and all of a sudden they can't do it. And this actor got it better off for the next day. You didn't lock them in. Yeah. But I hate to just, you know, crap on film industry at large or like just Hollywood, but sometimes I'm watching a show and I'm like, there's this one bad actor in the show. I know. Oh god. And the rest of the cast is amazing. It takes you out of it. It pulls you out. It pulls you out. And if there's a show that has no weak links, like those shows. I know. Like succession. Like succession. No weak links in that. So good. No weak links. Like the office or like, I don't, there's everything's so real and feels like it's happening. They cast the right comedians. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think, what do you think that you want to do as in like what project would you want to do next? I would love to do, I'd love to do another comedic show. I think that would be really fun. I'm getting a little bit more into writing things like that. So there's a really cool comedy I've written with a friend of mine, you know, the way we want to, yeah, the way we want to. I guess you probably can tell us what it's about. No, well, we'll see if it happens. Yeah. It's just. What's writing like for you? How long does it take you to sit down and can you glue yourself to the seat effective leaders? Well, it's cool because I co-write. So I think I like that dynamic of being able to collaborate and like bounce ideas off each other. I haven't written something on my own before. Like a long project, like a feature or anything. I think that's really hard for me because it's like you have to motivate yourself. You know, when you have someone else, it's like, they're like, are we writing tonight? And you're like, oh, I don't want to, but I should. You know, you have someone that's accountable for you. But usually I just use writers to do it. And I sit there on Zoom with my friend and we talk and we write and collab. It's awesome. It's so fun. It's so fun because you're just laughing. Like what makes us laugh? Then we put that in. Oh, my God, that's so good. You know, and then I do pull like real experiences at all. For sure. For sure. I just switch them up a bit, you know. I just started doing that a bit more after interviewing Ava Safi. Okay. She's a young director in Vancouver. That's right. She's a great film called Forner. And she was mentioning how much she's unapologetic about. As soon as she has a fight with somebody. Yeah, she's like, you're going in the script. Yeah. Which I think is kind of like, I think it's great in a lot of ways. But then I also worry about a little bit about subconscious. Like, oh, you don't like this person in this character. Right. Well, yeah. I don't know if that can actually, but I mean, really scared. Are you scared you're going to be in someone's script call? No, I'm scared. What are you trying to say? Is someone writing about you right now? I don't know if somebody else will notice their mind scripts. And they'll be like, oh, but wow, that's fantastic. Yeah, writing a bit. Yeah, totally. It's been really fun. It's a great outlet. And it's nice because it's still part of the industry. So on my off time, I'm still doing something that's related. And it gives you a little more agency, too, when it's using your mind. You know, you're, I think acting, I love, but it's hard in so many ways. Because sometimes you don't get the part because you're blonde. Or you don't get the part because you're not the right height. Or the right age. Or you can't do a particular skill that they need. Yeah. I can't play the piano. So I can't, you know, it's like, dammit. Yeah, I'm not a figure skater. So it's limiting in those ways. Because there's so many things you have to check. We're with writing. It's like you sit down. Oh, it's fine. And you write it out. It's freeing. Yeah. I mean, will it get made? Will it not? That's your whole other aspect of the business. Yeah, you have to love the process of it all. And then writing especially, I think, because it's like, I don't know about you, but sometimes I fall in love with what I've written. Yeah. And then you go back to it and you're like, what? It's not so good. Oh, yeah. Have you ever had the opposite? We come back to something and you're like, damn. That was actually insane. Yeah. Yeah. I had that happen recently with the front of mind. There was something we wrote a couple years ago. And we were like, why should we write next? And we went back and we read what we had written. And we were like, well, this is good. We just have to like switch this and switch this. And it's just funny. Because when we left it, we were like, oh, it's not good. It's not good. It sucks. You get so discouraged when you're sometimes when you're making something or you're not getting the right feedback or something. And then later you grow and you're like, actually, I could salvage this. Oh, yeah. And just find a way to make it interesting. Plus, like on set, if you have that kind of environment that day or whatever, you're going to workshop something with some actors. Yeah. I love doing a read through. That's really fun. A read throughs are great. That's the best. I worked with a guy named Patty Gibson who's on a play right now. And he's just doing this. He's a great actor. And he's saying the workshop and the practice is the best part in theater. Because everyone's figuring things out. And you're kind of discovering things. And I think it's because you're kind of a writer. All the participants are a writer in that sense. Yeah. You're collaborating. That's my favorite part of it. Because when you go to a set and you get to have input, I remember going to a read through for my first guest star. I never booked. And we did read through. And we were sitting at this table. And the writer, as we were reading it, he pushed over a note pad to me. And it said, do like that line. And I thought, I can have an opinion. I couldn't-- I was like, oh, no. And he went, yeah, I'm scratching that. And I was like, wow, I'm a part of a process. He's hearing me say it. And it sounds clunky. So he's like, why did I write? What sounds right to you? And I think that's my favorite part when you can actually change stuff together and see what works. And not push something just because someone's like, I wrote that. It has to be perfectly that. It's like, well, if it needs to change, it needs to change. But also, a writer's words are sacred. So I don't know. It's hard. It can get funny, right? You can get a little bit of people get really into their work or in the edit or whatever. And I've seen some of that fighting that happens. And then if enough time passes, it just completely evaporates. Nobody knows. Like, what were we fighting over? Yeah, no one cares about that one line or whatever. And now you've been fighting about it for an hour. It's like, yeah. But with comedy, I think there is some writing in the office where there's the cadence. There's a cadence to a joke or the setup and set up a punchline. Three people bow in a row kind of thing. In the laws of threes. And trying to find a beat and a rhythm is also another challenge that exists. Totally. But succession doesn't do that so much. And I love that show so much. I have all the scripts of all four seasons. You do? Do you read along while you watch it? Or what do you do? You do? I used to do that. So I think I told you I used to be obsessed with Greece for some reason when I was a kid. And when I was 10, my parents bought me this like box set. It was like a VHS. But I had the script in it. And I would watch the movie every day for probably like two months. And I would just read along to the script and or to the movie. And it was just, I think that probably, you know, accelerated years. Because I was like, oh, you could also you could see how it was written. Yeah. And like the format. I'd never seen the format before. So it was really cool. I love doing it. And you see like what jokes landed? Which ones didn't? Or there's like a little note here or there. And yeah, that that show is so well done. It's amazing. And one thing I love about reading the scripts is that they have a forward that says we usually try to keep the actors right on script, except at the end. And some of the greatest bits that are in my memory of when I watch the show. And I'm like getting to that part in the book. And I'm like, oh, is that going to be like scripted at the end of the scene? These buttons that they have on a lot of the funny jokes are not scripted. Really? So the last line, I would say like 10% of the scenes it seems like they let the characters go. And then there's a next, a next or a line. Interesting. And it's on a good joke. Then the next, there's a follow-up joke. Do you think that they think that through beforehand? Or do you think it's just a in the moment? Well, the showrunner wrote this forward. And I think that he told the actors try and do it just like it's written. But we'll obviously take your input. Yeah, yeah. And like, for example, Roman was not-- Love. My favorite character, by the way. Oh, he's awesome. He was not written as-- sorry, he was written as a drug user at first. Oh, OK. So he was doing cocaine at first, theoretically. And then after a couple episodes, they were getting to some party that they were going to go to and whatever. And Kirin Culkin said, I just don't think my character actually is a drug user. If my brother is, maybe I'm not. And then so they changed it. That's cool. And that's another fun thing that I like too is there's a small changes dialogue. But also bigger ones too. Yeah. Like they originally imagined a character-- his character again had a daughter in the pilot script. But really? When they got to the shooting of it, they pulled that out. And they had it just be his-- the daughter of his girlfriend who he breaks up with. The first episode, the second episode. Do you think that's also a production thing? Like they're like, do we want a kid here all the time? I might be it. I wonder if that's-- Or they can ask some of them. I wanted to can them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I always joke about it. But like in Landman right now, John Ham's characters-- this is not a spoiler. There's the last season. I haven't seen the new season. But in the old season, we're just catching up. His character's in a coma. And I was like, oh, did he just ask for too much money? Or did his agent ask for too much money? See, you're thinking like a producer. Yeah. And so they say, oh, he's in a coma. Yeah. But we don't know when he's coming out. Oh, OK. He booked another job. Yeah. He's busy. Yeah, he's coming back. He booked a Marvel movies. Yeah. So do you think that being a lead is a completely different thing? Like how do you prepare for being a lead? Ooh, I think a really important thing about being a lead is your energy on set. Because I think I've been on sets where the leads or lead isn't very inviting. And I think that can-- it just can change the energy of the entire film set. So I think to me, it was always really important. And I had really great mentors in that, like watching really great people lead shows. And seeing how inviting they were with guest stars, with crew, just a kindness. I think that's so important. It's so nice. It's so nice. So I always try to remember that. Especially when someone has their first role and they have one line or one scene. And it's like, be like, hey, this is awesome. You're having a good time. And you get to be part of someone's core memory. Because I still remember my first role. I did a part on Bionic Woman. It was like an NBC show. And I booked this recurring. And I got to meet Lucy Hale. And she was so kind to me. She was so kind to me. And I remember leaving set. And I was walking with my dad. And I was leaving set. And she got out of her car to come over and hug me and say, thank you for coming. It was so nice to meet you and all this stuff. And I just remember being like, what? Like, this is so cool. So things like that, you're a part of people's-- this is people's dream. Yeah. So when someone's new, like, being really inviting and kind, I don't know that there's anything more important. Yeah, I think it's like almost godly. Yeah. Dylan mentioned something like that. That he remembers an NHL player doing that to him when he was a kid. Really? And now he does-- he's such a good dude. He does a lot of stuff that he's, like, doesn't share about with, like, charities and things like that. Yeah. And I was asking about it. I was like, you do these things. And you don't even post about it. And he was just like, yeah, I remember someone did it for me. Just took the time to listen to me when I was just a kid and some NHL that you look up to. And so if you're an actor on set and they do have a lot of prestige and a lot of times they're treated quite nice because they're trying to do a hard job and we're trying to give them time to relax and do it well. So if you have that role and you can be kind to the PAs and stuff, I think it goes so far. Yeah. And I remember on set, some Daniel Acliffe, for example, he was so nice to everybody. Yeah. Like, even though-- He seems lovely. He was so nice. And I always, like, I'm happy to share that with people when I tell people about, like, what I know from the weird Hollywood industry. Yeah. Because there are some bigger actors that sadly aren't like that. I know. It seems like, what are you doing this for? Cloud. Like, they feel cool. They feel better than everyone. And then they want you to feel below them. And I just don't think that that's right. I was really lucky. When I worked on "Ladder Muck," it felt very even. There was no power dynamics. I remember a friend of mine, he booked a recurring on the show. And we all had to, like, move our tent. Or the tent had to move at some point. And usually, like, props comes and, like, does that for you. But we were all, like, let's just move our chairs. Like, what's the problem? And I just remember my friend being like, I can't believe you guys are moving your chairs. And I'm like, why wouldn't we move our chair? What do you mean? But then you start to, the more shows you go on, especially, like, really, really big budgets. It's like, no, like, you don't move the chair. Like, this person has to move his-- There's all these hierarchies. And you're just like, oh, my God. Like, you know, but it creates such a difference. Yeah. And I think it is one of the only industries where the hierarchy is so strong. Yeah. It's huge. It's huge. Yeah. And it's like, where do you fit in it? And like, who can you talk to? And like, you know, if you're in costumes, do you look at, like, Jennifer Lopez? Like, you know, in the eye? Like, it's weird. Yeah, it is weird. I don't like that part of it either. There's things that the unions and the agents do that I think is so useful. And they're, I see exactly why they're needed. And then there's, like, part of that hierarchy thing, like, that even part of not moving your tent is, like, our union rule. Yeah, right. Because they have a-- I mean, I understand in some levels why, because if somebody moves a cable, and then somebody, I can't find it. Sure. But if it's, like, my chair, you know? Or, like, you're going 10 feet over. Yeah. Or even with, like, locations and permits. You shoot over here, and that's fine. But you can't shoot over here, so you don't have the permit for that. And it's, like, the same field. And I've experienced that on an action show in Europe, where, like, we're already in a field, and a helicopter was landing. And they wanted $5,000 to have it land again. I'm like, we just went up and landed. We can't just do that one more time. And they're just fleecing us for money. And so, at that time, you know, that's why producers do get their backs up. And they don't aren't friendly. And they don't talk to anybody. Yeah. Because they're, like, worried about risk, I guess. Well, you're handling so much. They are handling a lot, especially with helicopters. Yeah. But, um, that's okay. That's a good tip. Be a nice person on set. Be a kind person. When you're relieved. But also be a kind person. But, like, also do your scene well. So the movie doesn't fall apart. It doesn't fall apart, you know? On your sets of tip number two. What's tip number three? Um, tip number three. Um, okay. I think this job, a big piece of it, is also kind of, kind of similar to the first, first tip. But how you interact with people in general. Like, there's so many dynamics. And there's a lot of difficult people, you know, and difficult personalities. There's people that get really angry or, like, stressed, really easily or, or hangry or whatever. And it's like, how do you manage those relationships? Because also at the end of the day, relationships are what get you jobs. So if you're not kind to people and patients and understanding. But also having boundaries, you have to have boundaries. Um, so it's, it's like finding the level there. Because every set you're on could lead to your next job. So be a good person. If it's not enough to just be a good person, to be a good person. Be a good person so you can get the next job. You have two reasons. It sounds like obvious, but it's so true, I think. Yeah. And then the hierarchy, whatever, like, trying to ignore as much as you can, I suppose. Um, and then that's where just experience comes in. People kind of can read the room better once you've had experience. Oh, yeah, of course. Oh, yeah. I think it's not a bad thing to be a PA, like, to figure it out. That's a great idea. You know, being assistant for, for people, a lot of, like, I was an assistant. I was an unpaid assistant for a while. And then I became a paid assistant. And a lot of those jobs, you just kind of figure out the set. The feel. Yeah, the vibe. And that's, uh, I guess that's my tip. Why am I giving tips? I don't know. I love it. You need more tips, too. So those are three fantastic tips. If any more, any more. Any more tips. Ooh. Um. I think rehearsing is underrated. Like, I think in film, it's like sometimes you're just cast and your drops into set. And it's like, you're in love with this person. And you've been together for 10, like five years. And you're like, I've just met this person. How do I, you know, but I think if you know who's booked a part opposite you, especially if it's a significant role, meeting up, having a Zoom, having a phone call, whatever. And maybe even going over your lines, um, when I worked on Big Sky, Brian and I worked together a lot. And we would meet up before and we would run the scene or sometimes we were on set. And it's like, we're sitting around and we're like, let's go to the actual like set we're going to be on later. And let's work out where we want to stand. And then it's like, when it gets to time to shooting, you already kind of know what you, what works. And then you can share that and collaborate with the director based on what they thought, right? And it just makes everything better. Your performance is better because you've already done it. You're not just like an action and it's the first time you're having your moment. So there's not like a feeling that sometimes you're like, uh, what's the, what's the way to say this? Like it's not new, not fresh that first time around. I like when it's, I like when it's new and fresh, sure. But I think there's something to being rehearsed, but then letting it go. Like that same thing I was saying before you're prepared, but then you can also kind of relax. It's easier to relax when you know kind of where you're headed. You know, then you can kind of make new ideas and thoughts and, and put things in and be more impulsive because you already have a shape to what you're doing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think that makes sense. I mean, I really love just getting together to talk about a script or a movie. I would, I would, there's nothing more fun. It's the same thing with like writing that they say, you know, if you're going to write a mystery, then make sure you've read many, many mysteries. So you know all the tropes and then once you know the tropes, you can break them. Yes. Because you know how to use them. Yeah. You know how they function. So when you book a role, do you go and do research in a way like that? Do you try and find books or characters or real life? Sometimes, yeah. Definitely. I like usually like watching something like a, you know, something on YouTube or whatever, like finding people's lives. Um, but yeah, I think that's important, especially if you don't understand where they're from or their job or. Right. You know, something like that. Yeah. So do you have it? Can you share a story of any of your roles? What kind of things you may have done to? Ooh. Like for louder. Well, yeah. When I, when I booked louder milk, I had never been to a strip club before. Really? Nope. And I thought, well, I should probably go to one. So I did. I went with a bunch of friends and we went to a strip club here in Vancouver. And, um, yeah, it was eye-opening. It was an interesting time. We got a lap dance and it was a whole, wow, it was quite an experience. I never had a lap dance before. No. Well, I can say I have. I did get a lap dance. You did. Paid for it and I got it. You know, it was so funny. We were, we had been partying so hard that whole day, just a wine tour that by the time we got to the strippers, like I was just like-- You were done. I was like over it. They're like, this is the high. And we were in Portugal and my buddy's fiance had landed and she didn't have a key to get into the hotel. And so we're all like, oh, what are we going to do? Make her like, wait or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And him and I were just like, you know, let's just go. Like, let's just call it and a couple of the other guys were going, like, going balls to the wall. And so when we left and we were pulling them out, their wives were like, what are they doing in there? They're texting us this crazy shit and they came to pull their husbands out of the strip club. Oh, great. But I was very well behaved. And that-- And they told my fiance, like, he was sober at the end of the night. It's impressive. Why did I start talking about that? Oh, I don't know. Oh, but I-- Let's try first. Yeah. I sure did. Me and my friends sat beside each other and we held hands and we were like, oh, my god, this is happening. So-- Did you do anything on, like, the darker side of that character? Did you research to find out what-- Well, I did. She was a heron addict. I definitely didn't dive into that. Probably good. Good thing I did. That's probably smart. Yeah, probably smart. I did smoke a couple cigarettes just, you know, get into my system. Which was really thrilling. My parents were big smokers growing up. And I just know I have the gene to be addicted to that. Like, even just having like a couple, I was like, yeah, I like this. So I had to be like, OK, get a back off now. I've experienced that. I understand now. Yeah, I know. We're smoking too. Like, I tried it. My dad was a big smoker and he quit, but it was so difficult. Yeah, it's so hard. I remember thinking, like, this is cool. And then, like, this is terrible. Yeah. But the rush. It also looks really cool. It looks so cool. In movies. Yeah, in movies. It's more like the smoke. You know, breaking back. The lighting. The lighting. Just the atmosphere. Yeah. It's so good. It's so cool. It's got an effect too. Yeah. You can play a role. Just the dancing smoke beside someone's face. You don't have to speak. You can just be smoking. Just the way you hold this. Yeah. You know what? It is romantic. There's a lot of, there's a lot of the, what's it we're looking for? It's like a customer. That's not a query. The habit is not just about the addiction. It's about going outside and taking a break and all that stuff. Socializing. I remember when I was younger and, you know, you'd go out to clubs and stuff. And then you go to the smoke pit. You know, and I didn't smoke where my friends did. And they're like bumming cigarettes. And you're talking to boys and you're, you know, it's like a way to interact. This is very social. Yeah. It's so easy. I try to have with people. Yeah, totally. So. That's cool. Anything else that you did for the role? What else did I do? The tattoos. I didn't get any tattoos. I did watch some YouTube like intervention style stuff. Those shows are always so fascinating to watch. But yeah, that's kind of it. And then there was a lot of people that really understood AA and like sober living that were a part of the show. So just talking to people on set too was really helpful. And, you know, people being like, that's not accurate. Like we should change this. And that was helpful. Yeah. I worked on a script that had a main character who was an alcoholic and was in AA meetings. And as we were writing it, we were finding out from other people as we were discussing it. Some people would be actually fairly open with us and be like, actually, I have a. This is what it's like. Yeah. Probably have a pretty bad experience. And here you go. But I didn't realize that there's a lot of process. And yeah, it makes it real. That's what makes this script so much better is when you know how it really goes. I know. That's why it's good to like use a part of yourself when you're writing or even when you're acting. It's like, how do you understand that feeling of rejection or sadness or joy, you know? Do you ever get the feeling that you're letting a character in and it's taking a bit of your personality if it's a really challenging role? Like, do you ever feel like you have to wash it like that? Yeah. I find that like when I did louder milk, there's so much swearing. And I don't usually swear that much. But I wouldn't be able to stop after the show would be over. And my friends were like, okay, why are you saying that word every other minute? And I'm like, I can't stop because I'm just doing it all the time at work, right? So it just like becomes a habit. So that was like a fun, fun one. But with the darker stuff, I think you could definitely end up taking it home with you. So I find making sure you shake your body out is a good one or just like listen to really upbeat music because something to get you out of the darkness because I don't know about you. But I can kind of veer towards like a more sad energy, like a depressive energy in my life sometimes. It's just kind of always the way I've been a little more melancholy. It's like, how do I not let a job I love pull me into that thing that I don't love for my life? So that's kind of a challenge sometimes. And you got to really actively think it because sometimes you're like, I don't need to, you know, get myself out of it. I don't need to watch an episode of Sinefeld. I can just go about, it's like, but it stays and it festers and it grows. And then you're like, why do I feel terrible? Yeah. I think that's actually such an interesting question. Like, why do I feel terrible? Because often I'll notice that if I ever just slept on it, I just feel way better. Like at the end of a day is when things creep in. But you don't, the strange part of what are minds or maybe just my mind is like, you don't really notice that part of it. And I'm like, oh, this is a depressed thought that it's like, I know. You get sucked into it, right? And then it starts to spiral and change. And you have a slap and you worked out too hard or something. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny that when you act, sometimes you're adopting like those feelings. Yeah. And then I'm like, thinking to myself, does your brain know the difference? I don't think so. Yeah, it gets stored in your body a little bit. Yeah. And I remember an older actor from Vancouver telling me that he was like, we need better insurance coverage for like counseling. Because he was saying, you know, you go to work and your child is died or something in your scene. And you're doing this scene for two days straight. You obviously don't feel good. Yeah. So it's like, you need someone to talk to you, you need to. Oh, well, they do have that. You're just taking so much. I actually do have that part of our film union and I think it's a good thing. No, it's really important. Yeah, they have that completely covered for counseling therapy and an emergency type things too. And that's one of the things that I, you know, I was crapping on the unions earlier. Yeah. But it's good. There's parts that I think are so silly like about how they perceive, yeah, this is what you're saying before. You can't do this job or you can't help on a set. Right. And then if you do an indie film with a bunch of friends, I know. Just let me do the movie. Just let me make the movie. Just let me, I don't need the hundred dollars. You're going to go in a field and we're all going to talk. Like, what do you need? Yeah. What do you need oversight for? I know. Yeah, but that is, I think then it's like these people know how to be safe. Yeah. And that's maybe what they're protecting is. Yeah, you need protection in film school. There were kids who got kicked out of film school for doing things to actors on camera. Like, for example, shooting an arrow at one. It was like a unsafe stuff. Totally unsafe stuff. Yeah. So I think maybe they're worried about that. But once you get past that, I do find that the mentality of like the influencer. Yeah. They want it to be like a bunch of friends. And to me, I think you have like the Colin Brothers had that or Clint Eastwood. It's always the same people. And I think that in our business, because of what we're talking about today, like the pressure and the emotions, that if you can find a group that is all just your friends, it's the best. That's amazing. Yeah, I envy Adam Sandler because I look at him and all the movies he creates and he just brings in all his friends. And then he's like, I want to go to Paris, you know? And you're like, okay, that's like this foot in the bill. It's just like, damn, like that's the dream. You know, you find the people you like and you bring them along with you. And that's again goes back to the relationships. Right? Because it's like, who do you meet? Who do you drive with? But who do you genuinely drive with? Not in like a, I think people sometimes think, oh, it's like networking. Like, hello, my name is. It's like, it's not that. It's like, who do you laugh with? Who do you like have the same like taste with? That's the person that like you're going to end up working with. Because you know how to collaborate, because you have an energy together. Yeah. Right? Yeah, that's like the goal, I suppose. I think that's maybe as I'm trying to get more control over the projects to do and involved in why I'm enjoying writing now is because of that reason. Both choosing where you're going to shoot and then who's going to come along? Yeah, because you can write a role and be like, I have this person in mind and they'd probably be interested, you know? And even if they're not, I have this person in mind. And you know the vibe of that person, because it's like when you're choosing someone to act in something or be with you on a set, it's like, they're with you 12 hours a day. What's that person like is like a human being, not just as a performance or as a right? It's so important. It's so intimate, actually. Yeah. Especially if you do an on-location shoot. Yeah. It's quite, it's pretty wild. So are you writing something right now that you have a role for yourself in mind? I do. You're writing this other role, that's so great. I love it. Yeah. That's genius though. Well, I'm just like, I got to make my own roles too, you know? Like, what do I want to be in? What kind of thing? Of course. Do I want to-- Hello, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, right? Yeah, right. I don't know if I'm at that level, but-- I think it's Tarantino too. Yeah, seriously, that's true. No, I think it's cool when you're writing something for yourself. Because then you're like, okay, I can do this part. And you're challenging yourself too, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Well, you know, so we've talked for an hour. I've went by pretty fast and put Robert Rodriguez. He has this one kind of quote that's like, don't be the one telling yourself you can't do something, right? He's like in our artistic lives, he claims that it's your imagination that other people are thinking that you can't do something or that you're a tall poppy. You're holding yourself back? Yeah, you're holding yourself back. He's like, you're the one throwing the tomato at you up on stage. Yeah. Well, that's like me saying with the audition for Laramilk, like thinking, oh, I can't do that, you know? It's like, then you push yourself and it's like, maybe you can. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You have to try it. And what other ways do you push yourself to try and do you meditate or anything? I wish. I think about meditating probably once a day and I absolutely don't do it. Does that count? I think exercise has been a big one for me. Just like, keeping my, when I'm moving my body and my thighs are burning or whatever, I don't have time to think about life's problems because that's the problem number one. Yeah. And then the endorphins from it is, there was just so good. So I'm trying to keep that consistent in my life because I never really had like a full-on workout routine. And now that I have more of that, I'm like, oh, wow, like I actually like this. I used to just hate exercise. I'm like, oh, God, who's going to go to the gym, you know? But then you're like, oh, this can actually be like something you have goals in and strive for. And so I really enjoyed that. Yeah, I love it. I try to do it every day. Yeah. If I don't want to get a little grumpy usually. Same. Yeah. Okay, well, how many push-ups can you do? I don't know, like 10. That's great. I'm working on it. Well, I just want to thank you so much for coming. This was really fun to have this chat and, yeah, I've always had a ton of respect for you and your crew. For you too. You're an awesome guy. Thank you. So I guess that's a wrap, I think. Yeah, awesome.