13 – Acting

[Music] Welcome to Imbrave beat by beat. I'm Curtis Rutherford. I interview a whole bunch of different improvisers and then edited together chunks of those interviews to investigate different aspects of Imbrave one piece at a time. This is episode 13. Acting. First off, sorry for the delay in episodes. For the most part, the delay was just because sometimes life gets in the way. And October ended up being a busy month for a bunch of reasons. And I wasn't able to get a chance to edit any episodes all month long. Sorry about that. On top of that, I came to the Too Late Realization that I needed to scrap one interview from my original crop of interviews. And I also have started slowly interviewing more people to add into the pool of opinions that I used for these episodes. I gave myself an arbitrary deadline to release the first episodes of this project back in June. And started releasing episodes with all the interviews I had at that point before the number of interviews became too unwieldy and I wouldn't be able to edit any of it. It meant that there were some people whose opinions I really wanted that I didn't end up getting into the podcast. Now that I've got a bunch of episodes out, however, I'm going to try to bring in more people very slowly into the mix. We'll see. I'm still kind of figuring it out. But basically, it'll no longer be the same group of 24 improvisers I started with. Also, and sorry about this, but there won't regularly be one episode a week. I was having a hard time keeping to a weekly production schedule as it was. And I realized that spending five to ten hours a week editing this podcast, plus working on my own other projects, plus improvising and working and living my own life, there just weren't enough hours in the week for it all. So expect episodes on average probably every couple of weeks, hopefully. I think that should allow me enough time to make sure that I'm still crafting episodes that I'm happy with. Anyway, this episode is about acting. Many people often think of improv scenes in terms of a sketch, which means that we often simplify it in our heads into a script. This is what you said, then this is what she said, then you responded like this, etc. In addition, when giving notes, a coach generally writes down small snippets of dialogue from a scene. For these reasons and others, the verbal part of improv often gets worked on the most. But we're not improvising lines of dialogue for an audience. We're improvising an entire scene. This episode is about all the ways that acting can bring a scene to life, and the ways that it can help us make our scenes better, funnier and more real. I don't know that much about acting. It's not something I've ever really studied, so I specifically asked some of my favorite actors how they create characters and what they brought from stage acting into improv comedy. First up is Jessica Morgan. In episode three, warm-ups, Jessica talked about using warm-ups to warm-up your entire body. And not surprisingly, the same approach applies to reacting in improv as well. Do you feel like you build your characters from a particular point, like from voice or body or anything like that? I was gonna get real corny. I built, I definitely build my characters from body. When I was in college, I had, I think I was doing pretty well. I was trying hard, and I was doing my homework, and I was okay, but I don't feel like I was great. So I took vocal classes and voice and movement classes and acting technique classes, and I took a movement class that was all about initiating your characters from a physical point of view. And I did a scene from Death of a Salesman as the wife, and I remember just feeling it click. I will never forget that scene. I barely moved in that scene. It wasn't about what I could do with my body. It was about how that character lived in my body. And I mean, God, that was in 2007 or '8? No, it was like, no, it was 2009. It was 2009. So, but almost a decade later, two weeks ago, I initiated this terribly gross character. That was this kid who just wanted to make out. I don't know if it's fully a game, but it was like other teens focused on academics. Another kid is known for being a track star. I want to be known for kissing. And I did this thing. The first thing I remember doing was just running my fingernails along the tops of my legs. And it was like, that's who he is. Got it, got it, got it. And it was just one small physical choice. And so, therefore, if he's always like just kind of creepily running, lightly running his fingernails on his thighs as he's walking around, his knees are probably a little bit. It's probably a little hunched over so that he can always kind of like do that. And it's not inherently bad. And I even had someone come up to me afterwards and say, that was so creepy, but I didn't hate him. And that felt great to me because it was good. I did a good job because even the best villain, you sometimes don't always hate. I'm not saying that kid who just wants to kiss is a villain, but he was coming on really strong. But yes, so I took this movement class and it just made everything click for me. And so if I, and all actors are different, you know, some people come from the vocal, some people come from their technique, their environment. But that was always the easiest place for me to pull from. From watching you, that makes sense because your characters are always very present in a scene physically. And like that's one of the things that like even when you are like still, even when it's just, I mean like that scene you did with Kleinman a while ago, where it was just him like screaming like, what was it like? Come back, come back. It was, I think, the best scene I've ever done and I didn't say a thing. It was great. And this is another thing where I think that like where I put myself on stage did so much work for us before the scene even started. I put myself down stage right and facing the bomb. So facing away from the stage and I just had my head down and I was shaking my head and he just went off. And the, I think it was, oh, that's when we were doing the sleepover opening. And of course I love the sleepover opening because it's a character opening. I miss that opening. It's so good. But that was from a character who was talking about how good a pizza was. Right. And like how it was the best pizza ever. And so Kleinman just dove into trying to get my character to understand what I'd done, like what I'd made. And like how incredibly important and good it was. And like my character just doubted herself. And it was funny because it's about pizza. It could have been about art. And then the second beat it was it was a mapping over good will hunting. So the first, the first, it makes sense. It makes sense that that's that character. It's he, and then that second beat he was waiting outside my door. And he was like, I hope she's out there making the best pizza she's ever made. All I did was just stand in that space and just I cried and just and just shook my head. Yeah. Didn't say anything. Even like the just crying, you were like the way you held your body was so specific of I am holding myself up against a flood of the world. And it's just this guy yelling about pizza. Yeah, I can't, I can't be good. I can't be good at making pizza. It would be impossible. Do not tell me you cannot penetrate those fortress self-doubt. Like that was that character. It's so damn because it's pizza. It was so specific. It was, you mentioned like, oh, rather than like just sitting there, even just with that is Linda her name from death of a salesman. Yes, I think it is. Okay, even just like doing that of like not just being there, but choosing to be still. Yeah. Is such like a different way than most improvisers exist on stage. Ooh, I got thoughts on that. Okay, let's talk about that for a little bit. And then we'll come back. Yes, of course. So standing still on stage shows power, shifting shows weakness, moving forward on stage takes power, moving back on stage, you're giving power. So forward on stage towards like the front of the stage towards the audience or even if you are if you with purpose are moving to one of the wing seating areas, moving with purpose forward on stage shows that you have power. If you back away from the stage and towards the back line, it shows that you are giving up power. We stand on the back line. Yeah. And we love to shift our feet back there. So we honestly like I'll stand by this. We look weak as hell on stage sometimes because even if we're going to be on the back line and that's our neutral setting, do not lean. Oh, this grinds my gears. Do not lean. Do not put a foot up. Don't sit in the chair. Stand with two feet planted on the ground and stand with presence. Like not musical theater. I'm about to belt a solo style, but be there. And then when you are actively engaged in a scene and I'm a culprit of this, I've been on teams where we play whole scenes against the back line and I hate it. I hate that. Yes. And that even even if you're setting a scene that far back, it had better be for a reason. It had better be to juxtapose maybe a split screen scene that's happening forward on stage or you're hiding or something. It really, really, really bugs me. And I mean, I say that and I do it. Sure. I mean, we're conditioned to do it. Not by, you know, any teachers or any performers or anything, but we also when it be generous improvisers and make sure everyone can see. Yeah. And so we go so far back and that doesn't do anyone any good in the long run. Like maybe they're seeing your back, but they get it. So they're seeing if, you know, if they're on house on that house right and you're facing house left, then they're seeing the person who's facing the house right. They're seeing something in his live theater, you're feeling something. Exactly. There have been times. where I've been on the back line and the scene is so close to me that I just want to push them. Because it's like, I'm not part of this scene. Yeah. I don't want to be part of this scene. I'm focused on you. I don't want the audience focused on how I'm focused on you. Yes. Yes. Yes, exactly. I will sit down or lean though. And I, but I do it because when I am like focused, I don't think people should. I'm doing, I'm done. This is like a bad thing. But maybe, and this is from watching like two square when like Peter Gross and Dan Beckett all would do it. When they would have like a third person there, when they would have like some a four square, if two of them were doing a scene, maybe like John Lutz would just like sit down and just watch. But it felt like I am watching the scene and I am giving them power. And I'm very specifically saying you guys are the scene. But when it's just a whatever, yeah, I fucking hate that. Or you have no power. If you're there on that back line and you're leaning against the wall and it's, I have no power to give or take. That's when it sucks. If you're sitting in your engaging and you're giving them power and you're giving them focus, great, fine, but have power. Yeah. Because it's yours because you have an audience full of students who love this, watching you. And they, we want to, so corny, but we want it in still good habits. We want it in still and show good habits, especially in the little things like that. That was Jessica Morgan. Jessica is an intentional performer in every way possible. Most improvisers react verbally with intention. You said this, so I decided to say this. Or they react intentionally with emotion. You were angry and then so now I'm angry too or happier, whatever. But notice how much Jessica talks about all the ways you can intentionally respond to your scene partner in the audience other than just say verbally. Many of the things were apparently simple changes. Focusing up when you're on the back line, standing in different parts of the stage, but you feel those differences when you're watching improv. The audience instinctually responds to it. Oh, this is someone who knows what she's doing. I can't wait to see what she does next. Next up is Molly Thomas. With the theatrical, like, the theatricality part, like I feel like you're one of those improvisers who thinks much more of a stage picture of the stage in general. Just like how you move about the stage and how you set up both those group games and scenes in general. Is that just something you've always thought of or is that because you come from more of an acting background? Yeah, I think it's just naturally because I come from an acting background. I've done improv in college. I've done short form for two years. And then I was doing theater for a long time because I thought, well, I was just doing theater. You don't have to justify me. Right. We all make career choices than we do this thing. So that's what I was doing. The first couple of years I was doing improv at UCB, the being on stage and the acting part of it, I felt very confident in, but pulling premise and the thinking part, the writing on your feet part, took the longest for me to figure out. So yeah, I think just organically I think about that. And very funny, pretentious theater background story. When I was going to do my 101 intensive show, I, we got to the Chelsea theater. And I did an apprenticeship and did my first couple of professional shows at the Purple Rose Theater Company, which is a three-quarter thrust stage. And so one of the things I learned performing there that I didn't learn in college was how to act on the diagonal. So instead of facing like what you would think of as the front edge of a proscenium, you're turning towards the aisle. Oh, okay. Because then that's the way that most of the theater can see both you and your scene partner if you're facing each other that way. Because then you're always getting two-thirds of the audience essentially. Right. Roughly. Right. Because you're always getting the front and then a side. Yeah, so yeah, because there the audience was on literally three of the four sides of the stage. And so two full sides could see my face and an overall, like the other, the third side that couldn't could see my scene partner space and the middle could see both. And so we get to our half hour before our 101 intensive show. And Betsy Stover was my teacher and I got on stage and I was like stretching on stage. Like I did, like I do before theater shows, like really prepping my instrument. And I asked her when people were asking questions before the show. I was like, do we need to think about acting on the diagonal? And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I was like, oh well, because it's a three-quarter thrust. Oh, I just like. Was that, was that like an actual question that you had or was that a little bit of a, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was like we haven't talked about this yet and it was so stressed in the place where I like cut my teeth performing. And I'm sure it was also like, I'm nervous. So this is a way I can feel in control and like, cute other people in who may not have the same performing experience that I do that, like this is the thing we should do. And she was like, no. No, what are you talking about? Yeah. What are some like simple stage picture things that you just don't see enough of? At the Chelsea Theater, really taking up the whole space. Because so many, like so many people will either hug the back or just stay smack dab in front of that column. Yeah. And there's so much space in every axis, like front, back side. Right. Right. Yeah. It's just really thinking about using that whole space. And if we're not worried about because no matter where you're standing, unless you're really standing with your butt facing that's, you know, the center, like directly down stage, there are always enough people that can see you. And if you have, yeah, if you have eight people, especially in a group game, taking up that whole space, using those doors in the curtain, not just for entrances and exits, but, you know, it's like the people who used to climb over the back wall. Yeah. I feel like that I haven't seen that happen in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just anything. Like we have this whole space, so why not really use it? And people do. I so that sounds pretentious. Like, I mean, people really do. But yeah, but as far as it is one of those things that even when you do it, it's, I find I have to re-remind myself. Oh wait, I haven't done this or, oh, I saw another team do this. I want to steal that more. Otherwise, the impulse is just like, oh, I can get by with just standing around or just doing the same object work I've been doing or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And it reminds me, I just saw a poster at a high school. They're doing Peter in the star catcher. Did you see that? So it is a, it's a Peter Pan, it's either Peter Pan or like a kind of 10-genchal or a Peter Pan story. And I saw the original production of it and like they would use a piece of rope and have two people stand and like hold a corner of the rope up to form a doorway. Oh, okay, yeah. And then, I remember one scene they were on a ship, so they created the doorway. And then when the ship rolled from side to side, they would like move, side to side to make the doorway slanted. And they did so many really creative things with very simple props. And it was just so exciting to watch. And I think we're doing the same thing, even though we don't have any props. Yeah. But the more things that we can do like that, that I just find those moves really exciting. Because we tend to stick to just like animals. As far as like other things like kind of more background stuff, like, it's much rarer to see that kind of like or machinery. I guess machinery is the other one where people are definitely going to jump out and start doing that. Right. Or like a forest of trees. Yeah. People stand out. But yeah, it's the it's the stuff like we will we also tease Maddeni about magic bullet where there is a while where he would just be a bullet flying through the stage. And that happened in a couple of shows. But I don't know when somebody just does something like that that's so evocative. Yeah. And it would never occur to you possibly to do it or to do it in that way. I think that's so exciting. What are some of the things that you as an actor wish improvisers did more of? I love it anytime somebody commits to a physical choice or a vocal choice or just acts the hell out of the scene like somebody who is just being really emotionally committed in a scene or committed to the genre. So any of those things that are outside of being ourselves. Yeah. I think are really exciting. And they only add to what's happening in the scene. And it really is like that stuff feels like the easiest to add. Like it's harder to be like oh be funny or be smarter, be faster. But acting felt like the thing where it's like well devote more. Like commit more. Right. Right. I guess it just depends on the person too. So for me that was easier but then the thinking on my feet. And the thing that I really really struggled with was, might be in a scene and somebody would label something. Basically, just the basic thing of saying, that's unusual that you're doing this. And my gut instinct would be to defend my character and to say why I'm doing it. And basically to turn myself back into the straight man. And it was, I think that just comes from, well, personal stuff, whatever that is, but that aside. But thinking about your character and nobody thinks they're the bad guys. What's your motivation and my, are you doing this? Which still is a good improv thing to do because you're then justifying the behavior. It's, yeah, if it's done in a way where it's like, well, that was no longer unusual. Right. Then that's the problem. Right. Like Conor Antle always knows what his character wants and why he's doing what he's doing. But he'll be the straight man or the crazy man, you know, no problem. Right. No matter what. But if he's the crazy man, he always has such a good grounded reason for wanting this crazy thing. So for me, that was the hardest thing to learn or one of the hardest things. And so for some other people, I'm sure it would be difficult or feel very vulnerable to either do an accent that feels silly or be emotionally committed in this way where it's like, well, I didn't sign up for that. I sign up to do comedy, not drama. That was Molly Thomas. She talks a lot about using the full stage. Whatever stage you're on, don't use it like a tightrope or a tiny little catwalk where you can only do the scenes in one single, two-dimensional plane, two people talking to each other. Move about. Up next is Morgan Phillips. How do you feel like you embody characters so completely, I guess? I really is for me just acting as if it's actually happening as much as possible. I don't think I get fully immersed in scenes. It's not like I have any sort of, it's a lucid dream, as opposed to like, totally captured by the fantasy. But it really is just trying to be present and reacting to stuff that's happening there. Especially if like in a group scene, I'm not exactly sure what we're doing as a group yet. I really just try to be natural and just react to what's going on. I actually find that, I think it's maybe a weakness in my play at least right now of, it takes me a little while to pick up on what's going on in group scenes sometimes. I get the feeling that everyone else knows what's going on and I'm not entirely sure what's going on. So I just, I will maybe stick with just my personal reactions of things for a while and then maybe not say anything for a while and just react. So it's some of that might be to sort of treading water while I figure it out. My rule of thumb would be be a real person until you figure out what kind of real person you're supposed to be. And then if you're being really, if your choice of being a real person is really weird, hopefully somebody else will notice that and call that out and they can help you out there. But just being a real person until you figure out what kind of real person everyone else is being. Because they're clearly being some kind of real person can't quite put your finger on that. When you're coaching, are there any things that you have directly stolen from the kind of acting world? Like I want you guys to do this to be more present or committed or to react harder and like that. It's interesting coaching, dealing with things like acting and responding truthfully to things because you're usually working with people with a variety of backgrounds as far as studying acting or not, ranging from people who have advanced degrees and acting to people who have literally never acted in any way in their life. So actually I've been thinking about a thing lately where instead of, because I used to get frustrated where I felt like I was saying over and over again, just act, just be like a regular person would be. Just react like you would react. Just be a human being. Stop being, don't show me, quote unquote, impromptu, and show me real and just sort of finding different ways to say that. Sometimes that can work. But sometimes this is just like, it just doesn't register because nobody, because maybe people have just never been asked to pretend on that level before, since they were little kids, you know, playing house or whatever. And so lately I've been thinking of it as just getting more specific. You're not just a parent and a teacher at a parent teacher conference. You're a specific version of that. And then going through, like talking about different types of parent teacher conferences, maybe a parent who's a little bit anxious about their kid and if they're up to snuff, very level wise or a teacher who is just like really pleased to be able to tell the parent about what great things a kid is doing. So those aren't the games, those are just more specific based realities. So I think, so I've been kind of approaching it from the other side lately as far as acting stuff. Just be a specific type of, you know, be yourself if you were that person and a very specific version of that person. Which makes sense because if you aren't as clear on what it means to be yourself in that moment, you've definitely, maybe you're better at observing others and what they do and kind of stealing from them and doing that kind of thing. It also feels very similar to like the actor thing of what's the background of this character. All this shit we're not going to see behind the script, but making those choices also as an actor who improvises, doing those same choices and kind of refining that. Yeah. And it's definitely not something that I think people know intuitively to do that. I think it's something that has to be kind of studied or at least talked about. That idea of like one choice leads to another thing leads to another. If I walk like this, then how do I feel inside? How does that cause me to relate to other people? What does my voice sound like? That sort of thing? Like, I think if you've practiced that a lot and done that a lot, then you can make that sort of thing instantaneously. But it's kind of a new concept for a lot of people. Any exercises you like to run to help people get to that point? I honestly just do a lot of, don't worry about the game, just show me two realistic people. And oh, by the way, also yes and as you're saying, as you're saying things, you think people in that situation would say yes and be yourself, but a version of yourself that happens to be a doctor or a version of yourself that, you know, what would you be like as this character? I don't do a lot of, like I don't do a lot of things that I maybe would have pulled from being a theater major. Sometimes mimicking each other at like warmups where you have somebody in the middle and everybody initiates with a character, individually initiates with a character that they have to match. And maybe even saying like maybe make it a character that you haven't seen that person play before. Just to sort of get people to stretch and realize that they can kind of play characters that they haven't played before. I think sometimes within Prav, it's like exercises can help you get to places that you wouldn't naturally go to and then you realize you can do it. Yeah. I like that character we'll want a lot because I think it works very well for kind of like both sides of improvisers of both people who act very specific characters, you get to like see them do like take on the characters that other people are initiating and do those characters that you don't see. And the people who don't really play characters at all play close to themselves, you get to see that like play goblins or whatever. And I think you get to grooves as an improviser, especially if you're really well received as an improviser. If people like to watch you improvise and you get a good reception for the things that are your natural go-to's, I wouldn't say like don't do that, like absolutely do that. But if you want to get better at improv, you're going to have to push yourself and some of that might be, it might be helpful to have exercises that push you in unexpected directions, make you play. We used to do two-prove with a guy named Michael Martin where we would do 45 minutes to an hour long, two-proves sets, kind of an improvised one act play, kind of feel. We had agreed that we were allowed to play multiple characters, but I realized at a certain point that it was always him playing multiple characters. And I was always playing one character. And it was just because that was like my tendency. It was, that was what felt comfortable for me. It wasn't a crunch, I don't think it was a fear of doing it. It was just what felt normal to me, once I'd committed to a character for that long, it felt strange to suddenly become another character. And literally just realizing that and forcing myself to do it a little bit, now it feels totally normal to me. If I hadn't noticed that as a thing that I was not doing and pushed myself to do that, I would have kept doing the same thing over and over again. So I guess that's where coaches can come in and kind of notice those things and kind of push you in that direction, get your flexibility up. That was Morgan Phillips. I love that note to non-actor improvisers of be a more specific version of that person. Specificity is going to be a big part of the rest of this episode, as we'll see up next with Alex Dixon. As I've mentioned before, Alex used to coach one of my old Harold teams, co-workers, which will come up in this interview. Two other things that may need explanation, we talk about Gravid Water, which is a show here in UCB, New York, in which an actor memorizes one character's lines in a script. And then an improviser who's never seen the script does a scene with that actor. The actor recites a line, the improviser improvises a response, the actor recites the next line, etc. I also mentioned Triple Crown, which is a bar in Midtown, New York with a basement that people often use for improv shows because they don't charge money for us to use it. The shows are occasionally well attended, but often not. Anyway, here's Alex. I took a couple acting classes in college, but I think that I didn't know I was an actor. I went to one of those colleges that I think is like a lot of colleges where if you were on the input, I think that's what I'm talking about. that didn't mean that you were an actor. So I think I realized like my senior year, I was like, oh, I, and I think my senior year, I was like, oh, I want to keep doing improv. I still don't know as an actor. So I decided to move to Chicago, and I did the year-long conservatory at Second City, and then somewhere in there realized that the things that I loved about improv were the same things that I would love about like doing theater, scripted theater, or any sort of scripted acting. What sort of things? Being on stage with another person reacting to them, honestly. I don't think I probably could articulate it then, but I think then it was just like, I like being on stage and reacting to another person and playing off of them, but I think now it's, and I think this was true then, I just didn't know. I think it's about like evoking a feeling in somebody else, having an emotional response to somebody, and they having an emotional response to you. So I moved to New York, I'm from Connecticut, so I came back east to go to acting school, because I think I personally needed that to be able to confidently say that I am an actor. I felt like I was faking it or something, which wasn't true, but that's how I felt. So yeah, so I went to acting school. I went to do a two-year conservatory at Circle and Square, and then I think I thought I wasn't going to do improv again, and then I just really missed it, so I started taking classes at UCB, and was excited that I think I realized that going to acting school where I had to scream and cry for two years and not be funny made me a better improviser. Yeah. So that was exciting. How do you think a major better improviser? What were some of the things that you definitely, oh, this is how I've grown since the last time I did it? I think it made me way more comfortable on stage, more relaxed. It made me more confident in my point of view, and I think it helped me to not be afraid of digging into the emotions, because I knew that improv was inherently funny. I knew that even if you try to do dramatic improbates funny, so it made it exciting to be like, oh, I can actually dig into, quote unquote, the scary emotions, and that's even funnier or more fun, or at least leads to something. Whereas I think before I went to acting school, I probably was like, keep it light and be silly, which I still do, but I think I realize, I can have the full spectrum of human emotion and still make people laugh. Right, yeah. Which was cool. Because they already, like, audiences are there to laugh, and also just the fact that we're making it up, it has that kind of. We're ready at any moment, just to like release this nervous energy that we have of seeing that. Yeah, and I think, like, I do think, like, people, like, sometimes having moments in funny shows where there are like, aww, or feel something different so that when the laugh does come, it like pops more, and it's more of a release kind of like what you said. I love getting those other emotions too, or seeing a team get that like, aww, because it is, it's like, it's even more involuntary than laughter at a comedy show. We're expected to laugh, and so we sometimes like, perform laughter of like, that was funny, huh? But that response, or like, yeah. That's totally involuntary then for a comedy audience. Yeah, I agree, and I think it's really. Yeah, it is really fun to get that. And to like, I think that comes back to like, the comfort on stage, the fact that I'm more relaxed as a performer than I was in my early 20s, means that like, when those moments happen, I don't go, oh no. The audience, yeah, the audience like gasped, or it's just like, cool, more fun. Yeah, I know where they are. We're good, I can just keep moving. Yeah. That's great. So, you said point of view as well. Is that something you kind of consciously inhabit with your characters, or do you feel like at this point, it's just, I know at any point, I'm playing not Alex the Improviser, but I am this character who wants this thing. Yeah, I think with practice now, I don't think about it anymore. But yeah, a lot, I mean, and you know, because it's improv, so it is sort of hard for you to remove yourself. Yeah. So a lot of times it is like, sometimes I'll get a laugh on something where I'm like, yeah, it was a character, but I also really feel that way, but I guess it's funny. But yeah, I think now, because I've done it enough, that it just is, I naturally am like, no, my point of view and do that, like if this is true, what else is true without thinking too much about it? So then what are some things that when you are like, when you're coaching a team, or something like that, or when you're coaching a group, what are some of the things that you try to push them for, acting wise, or what are some things that you've stolen from your background there? I try to push people to, depending on the scene, but a lot of times push them to play it so real that they're scared that they're in a not funny scene. Yeah. So I love the exercise break up scenes. I think I did it with your team when I coach you guys. Oh yeah. Or your old team. Because first of all, it reminds people that like, even if you're doing a sad, emotionally charged scene, break up scenes are just scenes where you break up. That's it. Even if you're doing a sad, emotionally charged, angri-seen, whatever it is, it's going to be funny because it's improv. And also, even the most like in their head improviser, when they do that exercise, will surprise themselves because they get so into it, because most people who are at least 25 have gone through one break up, right? So usually even like the most timid improvisers will like click into something, and they'll start saying things that are really specific. They know stuff because they're like, "Oh, I'm in a relationship with you," and they start like piling on. They get emotionally invested. Even if they break, they usually, the other person acknowledges it and is like, "What's so funny?" Yeah. And it's like everything that they forget that they're allowed to and supposed to do in every other scene, they just sort of do naturally. So sometimes they'll do that exercise. But a lot of times it is like, somebody will initiate a premise. And I will, like, a big one I think that I see a lot is people initiate a premise that's basically like, "We have blank addiction and we're in an AA group." And I'm like, "Well, that's not unusual." So I usually will be like, "Guys, you can do this scene, but everyone has to play it real." Yeah. Like to the point where I want you to feel bad, like you're in a scene that's not funny. Not everyone does it, but like, I think that's something I say a lot. And even brave enough to be in a scene that might not be funny. Yeah. And even then, if it doesn't end up being funny, then I think that's a pretty good lesson of like, "Oh, yeah, addiction isn't a game." Right. Right. Or an AA or any of those, yeah, that's not a game. Right. We have to be characters who have other fun beliefs, not a psychological or mental or a medical affliction. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And I also say to them, like, "Here's the thing, you find yourself in a scene where you're alcoholics in AA." And worst case scenario, if you play it real, people leave and they're like, "That AA scene was hard to watch." They were really good actors. That's worse. But worst case scenario, if you don't play it real, is they were making fun of alcoholics. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just like, "Play it real, because I'd rather if people leave the theater and be like, "Whew, that one scene was real good and not funny." The worst case of playing an AA scene real is better than the best case of playing an AA scene, not real. Absolutely. And there's a lot of things like that, or like, people not re-- like, somebody gets shot in a scene, they're just like, "Oh, man, you shot me in the heart." React real to it. Yeah. Worst case scenario, we're a little uncomfortable that we're watching someone die. But at least it's not like, "Wait, did you get shot in the heart?" What's going on? Are you a sociopath? What's happening? And even a sociopath would fall over and freak out. You got your shot in the heart. It's like, I guess this person is a robot or a vampire. That's the only explanation for why they're not moving. Exactly. Yeah, let's justify this new really weird thing. So, yeah, so to answer your question, I think the thing that I keep coming back to is I have been saying this a lot of like, be brave enough to be in a scene that might not be funny. And just like, I just say, play it real. Because usually when people aren't playing it real, I've found that a lot of times it might be because it's never like, "Oh, they don't know how to act in this situation." It's usually a situation where it's like, "You know what this is like." You know how you would feel if somebody said that to you. So it's just pushing them to act real. And I do think that that's what helped me going to acting school is that, because I do think reacting from that real place that might not get a laugh is scary. And I think like so much of acting school is like sitting in a chair in front of your class in silence with your hands on your legs having to like totally relax your body. Right. Or your teacher is like, "What's going on with your finger? Why are you twitching your finger?" And it's just like, just to be yourself while people are staring at you and like taking notes. It's like a bizarre social experiment. As somebody who is like constantly in motion or something like that, I cannot imagine that. I would go insane. Well, and it's amazing the stuff that like, and that I'm thinking of one particular class with one particular teacher who's like 450 years old. She was best friends with Marlon Brando. And she is like, "You just sit in front of her and she'd be like, "Why don't you love your father?" Or something. And then people would just start crying. It was like, "How did you?" And they'd be like, "How did you know that?" It was so weird. But even in like voice class, doing voice exercises where like just in front of you're standing in front of everyone they're staring at you and you're making sounds. And the teacher will be like, "I remember she said to somebody once, "Lose the bravado cowboy. "We all know you're a man." To this guy who was there, like a lot of men. and was very conscious of, like, I am masculine. And she said that, and he just burst into tears. I feel like most of acting school is like, is this the shield that you think is helping you? Drop it. - Right. - And I went into it being like, I don't have any shields, and I was wrong. (laughing) So I do think that, and some of them have gone back up 'cause it's been a while, but I do think like I'm more aware of them when I'm on stage, and I know, I guess, have a better sense of when they're useful and when they're not. So it's easier for me, I think, to play it real in situations where maybe 10 years ago I would have been like, "Uh, no, be a cartoon. "This is scary." - And since most of us don't either don't have that acting background and/or as comedians, we have done nothing but build shields our entire lives, too. How do I deflect this situation? How do I deflect this? - Well, one of the things in acting school that a couple of my teachers didn't never allow my classmates to laugh because they picked up early on that making people laugh was one of my things. - Yeah. - So even if I was doing a comedic scene, teacher would be like, "Nobody laugh. Alex doesn't even audience." So I got used to doing every sort of work with nothing with silence. - Right. - So that's also, I think that was also really helpful. I think if I did an improv show now to silence, I wouldn't be like, "This is fine." - Sure. - But yeah, it was definitely one of my things that they were like, "Oh yeah, let's take that away "from you for two years." - Yeah, that's also possibly an advantage to doing a bunch of shows that the triple crown. - It's like the same thing. I've done shows to silence or near silence. - Or yeah, or yeah, I've done shows for one person. That's okay. - Yeah. - I say that to my students a lot. They'll be like, "There's only like six people in the audience." I'm like, "I've done an improv show for one person. "It's fine." - Yeah. - But also if you don't like it, invite people to your show. - Exactly. Who made this happen? You guys. (laughing) - Yeah, so I don't know if I answered your question. I guess they did. - Yeah, some of the things I should play it real. - And especially those break up scenes are so fun both to watch and to do because they are, they're so multi-textured in a way that most, if you said, "Hey, everybody do a job interview scene." I feel like everybody would do the same job interview scene. Even though we've all been through very different job interviews. - Yeah. - Like I've never had an office job, so I don't know what an office job interview is. I just know what like weird, like either me meeting parents because of a multitude of their kids. - Right. - Or because I was like a janitor when I was in college. It would be like me taking drug tests. It was like the job interview for those types of jobs that I used to do. - Right. - But like we never see that. - Right. - But with a breakup, you instantly everybody clicks into, oh, I'm gonna do the breakup where we both agreed. I'm gonna do the breakup where I didn't know it was a breakup and she did. - Yeah. - This other person did and I didn't. That kind of thing. - Yeah, I did it the other day with a group that I coach and these two women did a scene that I've never seen this happen and it was great. Where it started out, where one of them broke up with the other one and she got really mad. But then as they were talking about it, the person who was dumped was like, oh, I mean if that's important to you, then yeah, we should break up. And she was like, that's what I'm saying. And it ended like, I love you so much. I was like, that was awesome. Because that's the other thing. It's an improv scenes a lot of times I say this a lot. You don't need a conflict. Like people think you have to have one and it's like, no, I mean we've all seen comedic sketches, movies, whatever, where some of the funniest things are people are getting along. But with break up scenes, it's obviously like we have a conflict. So it was really fun to see one that started with a conflict because I told them that they had one and then ended with like, oh cool, I'm a single age. It was great. - We're just kind of also the ideal breakup of like, oh, okay, I guess this is true. - Great. - You had us do a grab and one, you had co-workers do a grab and one or thing too, right? - Yeah. - That was fun. - It was fun. - Let's talk about that. Because that's one of those things I feel like, that's the only time I've done that. - Other than having like, seen "Gravid Waters" shows. Have you done that before? - I haven't, I actually hadn't done it since like, college when it was a short form game. Which I think "Gravid Water", I haven't seen "Gravid Water" for a while, but I think "Gravid Water" is, yeah. "Gravid Water" is not the short form game because the actor memorizes the lines beforehand, right? Yeah, so I hadn't really done it since, I called it on book, off book, and college. But it was probably my favorite improv game that we played when I was on a college improv team. - What are the things that, okay, so if you are then an improviser responding to the person who is on book, I guess, what are the things that you tell people to look for? Or to do, to make sure that you were doing in that moment? - When you're the improviser? - When you're the improviser, yeah. - I think the pitfall that always happens is, which makes sense, 'cause a lot of times the words that the person on book is saying, don't clearly make sense. So I think a lot of times, and this didn't happen with co-workers, I remember being like, is the improviser will be like, are you okay? Are you on pills or make them insane? Which we know, even if you're both just improvising is not a great justification, is it's like, all right, well, I guess nothing matters. So it's always like, it's like breakup scenes where it's like everything they're saying matters, listen to every single word, maybe listen to the way they say it. I think it's a fun exercise for teams that are having trouble with justification, 'cause you have to, the person improvising, almost has to justify every line and make it fit in with what they were talking about. So yeah, I think that's mostly what it is. It's like, if you have to pause and take a second to make sense of it, that's fine. I think a lot of people think improv is like, you talk, I talk, you talk, I talk. And it's like, no, in real life, we think, or we get bored with the conversation, we go like, wash a dish, and then we come back to it. So like, letting it breathe, I guess. So it's not like, don't feel like, oh my God, I have to respond to that right now. It's like, let it sink in and then whatever. - And sometimes those disjointed parts are really connections to other parts of a conversation. - Right. - Listening, now like, listening to all the audio for like the people I've recorded so far. And also yesterday, I was with one of the students, I tutor his job, his job. His homework was, it was like, the reading something that's like written very much in kind of like a vernacular style. And so the assignment was, record a conversation, and then like, transcribe it in that vernacular style. So he recorded a conversation with his mom. And we were like, just going through and listening to it and transcribing it. And it made it very clear how much she just talks over his mom and screams at her. She was like, being so nice of like, oh, let me, oh, you guys are gonna read a Tobias Wolf book or you read a, let me look this up. And she was like, doing this and he was like, mom, no, I'm talking about this. But also transcribing it, how clear it was that people will jump piece to piece. It was like, oh, wait, are there more cookies? Why aren't there more cookies? Anyways, the dog is still sick. And we'll just like jump back and forth. - Yeah, yeah. And I think that's what's fun too in improv scenes is, again, giving yourself permission to make up whatever you want. And having a conversation with your mom in the kitchen and then going, there's a cookie jar over there. And saying, I want more cookies, are there more cookies or whatever. And those moments get a laugh too, 'cause it's like, oh, you just made it more real. Like you created a new reality that fits in with the fact that we knew you were in a kitchen or whatever. Yeah, you just get a laugh just for making a decision that's specific. It's crazy. But yeah, I love that. That's so funny. - It's such a dumb shot. - Did the kid realize that he was interrupting his watch? - He did. And it was one of those things that I kept telling him, like, you do this all the time. I've been telling you for years, you do this. - That's so funny. You need to go hug your mom right now. (laughing) - That's so funny. I remember when I was little, my mom, like if I was yelling it or something would be like, I wish I had a tape recorder, so I could play back for you how you sound right now. And I would always be like, that wouldn't do anything. But it probably wouldn't have. I would've been like, oh my, I'm so sorry. I'm awful. - Yeah, just listening to myself talk in these. It's a little bit maddening, 'cause I realize how much we all kind of like jump back and forth and have these like pauses and do this like, uh, you're gonna talk, I'm gonna talk and that kind of stuff. I don't know. - Yeah. - The specificity thing feels like a cheat that nobody uses enough in improv. Or it is just like, that's how much can you text through this world. - Right. Yeah, I was teaching yesterday and somebody, I like to point out sentences that people say where it's like, you were vague. This is a moment where they were doing a scene and somebody said, oh, they were doing a bake sale and they were like, I hope we raise enough money for the field trip. And I was just like, guys, anything that you would have said would have been funny, just because you made up a specific field trip. And also what's fun is when you, when people get specific, sometimes I'll be like, say that again, but don't say field trips, say what it is. They'll not consciously add something that also adds more character information, like if they say to the Museum of Natural History, it's like, okay, we're in a city or we're just out of a city, or they'll just add like, for the trip to the Met's game, my daughter, and then they'll keep talking. And they're like, my six year old can't stop talking about it. It's like, oh, now we have, that's so great. But they just say field trip and then it's over. - And if a character has a specific feeling about a field trip, that tells me nothing about them. But how they feel about the natural history museum, or about a Met's game adds even more of that, I gotta go to the Met's game, I gotta go to the museum, or I'll get to go to the museum. I'll go to the Met's game with my daughter. - Yeah, also like, if you're having a big sale to raise money for a field trip and then you say something like for the field trip to Central Park, then it's like, oh, you guys aren't, somebody's pocketing. - Yeah, you know what I mean? - So it's like, It's like that fun thing of like, and I think beginning improvisers will say that and be like, "Oh, that didn't make sense." And it's like, "No, that was the best thing about the scene is that now we have this fun thing that we can explore that we would never have thought of or discovered if you had said just field trip or if you had thought about the thing too much and said the perfect thing." The fun thing is like, "Whatever comes out of your mouth." And when coaching or teaching, you can see that so clearly of that difference between I am making a game move. I'm making a move because I think this is going to be funny and weird and often it's a conflict or whatever that is. Versus that, just like, "Oh, you were just that character and you just filled that out." And the other person instantly saw that was weird. Right. Yeah. That's like the most fun thing about it is when you didn't really hear what you said in your scene partner is like, "I guess what? You're the weirdo." Oh, cool. I've been thinking about how every conversation you ever hear is insane. Like I've never heard a good conversation. Yeah. Almost every conversation. These people fucking suck. Which makes me think, "Any conversation I've ever had, somebody else thinks that." But it is like there's specifics in those conversations. The other day, me and Luke Field were riding the trade home and these guys right in front of us were loudly talking about how one of them was saying, "If there were a tumor in a steak, could you eat it?" And for the entire trip all the way back to a story, he was like, "Oh, no, would you get cancer? I don't even know." And then he was like looking it up on Reddit and it was like all of these specifics where it was like, "This guy is so weird." That's so funny. And was his, were he and his friend to make this an improv scene where they peas in a pod? A little bit. And he was like, "Would you want to?" I guess. I don't know if you would. He was like, he was like, the other guy was really contemplating it and the guy who offered this suggestion was just very into like, "I think I want to try it. I don't know if there's like a way. I'm going to keep looking because I think it would be fine." I guess. Also, how do you buy a steak with a tumor in it? If you decide that you want to try it, what is the next steak? Exactly. Do you have a cancerous steak? Yeah. No. Speaking of overhearing stories and going back to, you don't need a conflict. I often tell my students or people I'm coaching this story when they feel like they have to have a conflict in a scene. I got on the train once in the Far Rock Oasis. So it was the first stop. I was the only person on the train and then the second stop, this couple got on and they sat kind of like diagonally across to me. So it was perfect because I could like look at them without them knowing that I was looking at them. And the guy was like, "Oh man, I'm so hungry." And the woman was like, "Oh, I bought you something." And she takes out a paper bag and takes out this orange. It was like really big. And the dude was like, "That's the biggest orange I've ever seen. That babe, babe, you bought me that?" And she was so proud of it. She was like, "Yeah, I mean, it was the biggest one in the air. I knew you'd like it." And she was like holding it like he was looking at like a baby, his newborn baby's face. And he was like, "Oh my God, yes, orange is so beautiful." And he was heightening how much he loved the orange. And the more excited he got about it, the prouder she got of her subtly. She was just so happy that she made the perfect, he had no joke. It heightened to the point where he started peeling it. And he was like, "I'm going to eat you." He started peeling it and juice squirted on her. And he licked juice off of her neck. It was so weird. But it also was like, I was watching it going, "This is an improv." This is a game. You could do a second beat of the scene. And they love each other. They love the orange. There's a zero conflict. And it's this one simple thing. And it was so funny. And I always bring it up as like a. So I could have watched that scene for 20 minutes save where it might have gone sexually. But yeah, it was so funny. And it's just that change of rather than. I brought you something to eat. I brought you the biggest orange I found to eat that slight specific instantly. We lock into that. Right. And he immediately had a feeling that it wasn't just like, "Okay, thanks. Move on." It was like he had a feeling about her, had a feeling about the orange. It was great. I love having earbuds in and then turning off my music. And just like, I'm going to stand just up to the side. Just pretend I'm listening to music a little bit. Just take in this conversation. I know. It's hard when I go out to eat with a friend in there, something, a conversation. I'm just like, "I'm sorry, I'm going to have to. We can't talk. I have to listen to this." And then I'll fill you in. Yeah, often like any of like good friends or like anybody have been dating for a while. They know it's like, "I'll get like, I'll like perk up a little bit." And it's like, "Oh, that radar is sensing." And it's just like, "Okay, let's just listen to this conversation." And that's it. I know. It's so good. I know I get to do teams, especially like 201 through one, I feel like this is where it's fun to do. It's a very. it's a fun exercise and that I get to yell at people. It's just no pronouns. Do you see, there's no its, his, theirs, or anything that's essentially a stand in for pronouns. That's great. Like feel-trip. Right. Great. Be more specific. Right. I want it to feel like a bad short story. Like a Murukami short story where it's like, "It's not just I bought a drink." Right. "Oh, I got the orange, orange vitamin water." I want everything to be that way. That's very fun. Twist that. That's fun. And I bet they find out that like, "Oh, when we do that, it actually doesn't feel like a bad short story." It's a better improv. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. That's great. I know. I love when you do exercises like that. And it's like, "So that was an exercise, but that is. " There's some exercises where it's like, of course, like saying yes and at the beginning of it. You don't have to do that. But there's a lot of exercises where it's just like, "So that was an exercise, but also just like keep doing that." And then as soon as they start doing improv, they stop doing it again. It's like, "No, okay, then just pretend you're always doing that exercise." It says, "If we gave people all the tools to build a house and they're like, "Okay, this is the saw, this how you'll use this is the hammer." And then they just go and just start grabbing piece of wood and hitting them into each other. Right. No, that's what you're doing before. Right. Let's go back. Again, saw. Saw. Hammer. Do that. I know. A lot of it is like fear because it is like, but I'm, that exercise felt scary because there was a way to do it wrong or right. So then it's just like, "Oh, now there's not a wrong or right. Okay, I'll just fall back on what I know and I'm comfortable with." And like my fear stuff again, which is not being too specific because I'm scared that I'll make the wrong choice. It's like, "No, you're not going to." And even if you fail at an exercise, there's that little caveat, there's a little bit of indulgence of, "You know what, this person failed at an exercise?" It's not improv. So you're even more willing to take a risk and an exercise that you might not do in a scene. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, it's so interesting because it is. It's like, "Oh, this is an exercise, so we're just trying stuff out." And it's like, "Yep, but that's what an improv is." That was Alex Dixon. Specificity is key. Get used to memorizing turns of phrases that you hear and enjoy. Use proper nouns whenever you can. Exist is a real person surrounded by real things. Up next is Sebastian Cannelli. We were talking about improvising as specific characters rather than as bland amalgamations of humanity. When you are being like that very specific character, do you like think of specific people or do you think of like pieces of people and things and just from my life? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's stupid not to. You know what? Because why invent, I would rather just pull from my life. I only say Italian names and scenes just because that's the neighborhood I grew up and grew up. So why would I change that? A lot of women I play are my mother because she's fucking kooky and why wouldn't I capitalize on that? And I think the audience recognizes when it's something specific. When it's so general, they could feel that you're just trying to go through the motions or that you're not sure what to do. I think specificity is like so important and always steal from people. Yeah. Always. That's what we're doing as I think a lot of improv goes, oh, we make it up on the spot. We don't know what's coming next. But other art, all they do is pull from their life. Yeah. Their job, a job as an artist is to like experience life and show it back to the people, right? And why should we not do that as improvisation? It would be insane if a painter was painted like a still life. And they're like, oh, did you look at like a bowl of fruit? It's like, no, I just thought about fruit. I just thought about the idea of fruit. It's like, no, look at a fucking bowl of fruit. And it wouldn't, it wouldn't feel real. Yeah. Because you would be missing like the shading or the seeds on it or something like small texture stuff. And I'm just straight up copying the people sometimes and like, why not? You know? And you let the scene take over. But if specific fits, please, I feel like it takes a lot less work. That was Sebastian Cannelli. Up next is Liz Nooth. We'd been talking about her acting background and what strengths it brought to her improv. I probably first noticed the strengths that it brings when I was in 301 and we had to do Oscar moments and just being able to like drop into an emotion and convince people that you actually feel that way. A lot of games are based on reaction and honest reaction. So we're all games probably. Probably. Yeah. So that, mostly like that. with that reaction, the like straight man reaction or any sort of reaction to behavior in a scene. That's been the most helpful. And like commitment, being a person who I think on stage can just like project and knows how to be in front of an audience helps you when you're starting out. - Yeah, it's surprising. It's still how often it feels like I have to give the note of just like be louder. - Yes, yeah. - And I mean, not, I like, I didn't come from any acting background so like I get that like, oh, this is a new, weird thing, but even like on Lloyd or Harold, like, it's like, oh, you might have been doing this for five years and still that bait, those kind of basic acting things. - Yeah, I mean, I started, I started doing improv because I wanted to help my acting and I also feel like improv has helped my acting so much. - And what was? - Well, Patrick, my older brother is an improviser, Patrick Knoth, and he told me to start doing improv because he was like, you need to loosen up. I think that I would like perform and it felt stiff and it felt like very limited. I felt very limited. And yeah, like improv helped me be in the moment to the point where now I could go up and forget my lines and just be able to like exist as that character on stage which not many people can do. It's kind of crazy that we know how to do that. - Yeah. For someone who is coming to improv with their like, with that strength of acting, are there any pitfalls that you felt that you fell into that you then had to like, learn to avoid? - Yes. It's like, it's a skill but it's just a tool on your belt that you have. You always have to act in your scenes but you can never use it as like, well, I'm just gonna act my way through this scene. You can behave honestly but you have to listen. Just being a good actor doesn't always make you a good listener. I think probably the best actors are all really good listeners too. But I would notice that I would be in scene sometimes and I'd be like, I'll just rely on this and you just can't because if you just try to act and emotionally commit in a scene and you're not present and listening, you can make moves that feel panicky. It can feel like an arbitrary reaction. - Right. Each move, like from watching it, each move then often sometimes feels like, it just came as like this like, charge out of the blue or it's like, oh, acting, acting, acting, acting. Oh, let me make a move, acting, acting, acting, acting rather than like an integration of the two. - Yeah, exactly. Honesty is always more important than like showing your ability and like, oh, I could emotionally react right now in some arbitrary way like you're saying, but an honest reaction is always better and you can heighten that thing. - Are there like any particular acting exercises you like to run with teams where you feel like you guys aren't, you guys aren't in the moment enough, you guys aren't like, I don't believe you. - Yes, there's a lot that I like to do. There's a scene study exercise that is actually really similar to like the yes and exercise that you do in 101, which is just to repeat back what the person said previously, but the person said before you as a question and then answer it as your response and that helps immensely with listening and being present and in the moment. So there's a lot of ways to ask a question. - So there's a lot of ways to ask a question. There are, so like you're just doing that every time? - Yes, exactly. Every time. So it gives you a bridge between where your character's coming from and where you go with it. And that helps with scripts immensely, but an improv it helps because it gives you that extra few moments of like what did this person say and how am I going to react to it? So that's one that I really like to do. That's a little heady and it's a little clunky and it can be like really hard for people to understand. Like people think there's only one way to ask a question. Which is true. And then one that I like to do is I think I read it maybe on your exercise list and it's the wedding vows. Is that from you? - Oh yeah, I think Matthew Bryan Cohen had a team of mine do that once, yeah. - Or anything like that. There's a similar exercise where you stand across from each other and you say I love you back and forth a lot and let it sort of cascade. Just like earnest, direct, positive scene work like that where you just have to sincerely do wedding vows to each other and there can be no jokes. It tends to make people connect really easily. I recently saw James Fulton and Tom White do one a while ago but where they had to say I love you back and forth or possibly do vows. I can't remember which one we were doing. And then they just did a scene about how they were like good friends who they hadn't seen each other in a while. And they had all of these like inside jokes together but it's just the spirit of it influenced a scene that they did after that exercise. And it was really lovely. It just connects the two people immediately. - It's great to see scenes like that where they're, it feels like we are seeing a edited portion of a longer life. - Yeah. - And it's not just, oh these characters existed at the beginning of the scene and they'll die at the end. - Exactly. - But they have inside jokes, they have this whole relationship like that. - Yeah, this familiarity, yeah, that's true. And then I also am that annoying coach that makes people do like really high stakes, like break up scenes all the time or really, like high stakes, like you come home and like your spouse blew all the savings on gambling addiction or whatever. I have people do a lot of that stuff 'cause it's yeah, it just gets you in touch with your emotions. You're trying to approximate like a certain genre, like a serious scene in a genre or something. It's good for you, it stretches you as a performer and as an improviser. - In what ways do you think that stretches them? And how does that often translate into better scenes or funnier scenes? - I think it gets you out of like trying to think of the most clever thing you could say or trying to like get the other person. It just, it helps a person be in the moment. It helps an improviser be in the moment. And in early levels at UCB we use like when we're teaching we use status as a way of just informing, just giving somebody like information about a scene. It's not like, oh here's all the best scenes or because someone's playing high and someone's playing low status. It's just like a tool, it's like a landscape that you give somebody and then they feel more comfortable just like behaving. It's just like a short cut to honest behavior. - That was Liz Nooth. Liz talked a lot about how acting really accentuates and often creates or defines the game. For more about game, here's Will Hines. We've been talking about how people first learn game. - What do this, I don't really agree with this idea that people get game during class. I don't think I got game until I'd been on a Herald Knight for a year and a half. I don't think I was comfortable saying, this is what I think they gave them as until I was on Herald Knight for a while. Now I started in an earlier time when you could get on Herald Knight less evolved. But I think that's somewhat true. And I think the same is true on Mod Knight. If you get thrown in a sketch team, I think you might not be awesome always at identifying the game right when you join Mod Knight. I don't think that's so bad. We're supposed to be in a print system. - Yeah. - So certainly level three and four, I'm expecting you don't kick. - Yeah. - As some people do, some people take it so naturally. But I'll give you, I got a 16 people in a 401, four max will have a handle on game, max, usually more like two. And everybody else, they're kind of funny. They know it's unusual. They're pretty good, especially if it's a point of view they have, but they can't play weird worlds too well. They don't get out of fights well. They get disoriented. They're juggling so many rules. I don't hold them to the standard of having to understand. If they can theoretically get it when they're watching another scene, I feel great. Oh yeah, watching it, yeah, there was the unusual thing. Then I think you're in totally good shape. - Right, then they just need to get comfortable enough in the scene work to be able to have that over our later. - That's a little cum later. And that's all right with me. - So you said like about a year or so into Harold Knight, that's when you felt like you got game. Was there like, were there specific scenes that you remember where it's like, okay, now I'm kind of feeling this out. Now I see, or any moments where like somebody says something that they're like, - I have breakthrough moments that I remember, but they weren't related to game. They were related to acting. Like I was far more self-conscious over myself as a presence on stage. I came up with like really strong performers. I was in level three with like John Gemberling and Brett Gellman and Jessica St. Clair. And they were just like really confident seasoned performers already. And I felt like just I would vanish into nothing next to these guys. And I also felt like I was kind of like the nerd day job guy who was not as funny. And whenever I would try to play game, it just felt so naked and forced and fake sounding. That what I was looking for was like, how do I just feel like I'm holding the audience's attention and not looking like I'm full of shit? And really had more to do with like acting and committing than game. That's what I was way more conscious of that. - Yeah. - I remember far more like, sitting with Curtis Gwyn. I remember, okay, I remember one. But at this point I'd been on "Herald Night 4" over two years. But I remember sitting with Curtis Gwyn, who's a guy, UCB performer of "Days of Your." And I had this big initiation laid out, okay, for a game. I maybe even have told you the story Curtis. But okay, I just came out of the opening whatever it was and I was like, all right, I'm gonna, my initiation was some long rambly thing like this. Like, hey, hey, Mr. Smith, you're that DJ and the local radio station, you're that shock shock, you're the shock shock. I got a record of mine I want you to play. It's a banjo, it's called "Rickety Fence." I don't think I even said "Rickety Fence." I think I said, "Is my old banjo bluegrass music? I want you to play it on your shock shock morning show." And I had this weird idea of somebody trying to get a bluegrass record on a morning show. I mean, it was so complicated. It's bad for "Herald." Curtis just looked at me and went, "What?" Like he just shot, "What at me?" And I felt like, he was just reacting in the moment and being truthful. But I felt more like challenged. I was like, "Oh, I'm fucking up." I said too much and I'm fake. And this guy is so natural and confident. I look like shit up here, me, the improviser. And I just sort of doubled down and just tried to like be, I just, okay, just commit. You're an old guy trying to pitch a record, right? That's what you are. And I got a little more voice into it and I'm not great at voices. And just slowed down and I just said the initiation again. It's repeated it. But this time it's funny 'cause now I'm saying this big mouthful again but slower. - Right. - And it went over bigger. So that initiation was bad, but I threw two swings at the pitch. I got like better execution at it. And I remember feeling like, oh, I can't be rocked as easily as I once could. Like I sort of recovered my footing pretty good. And the audience laughed and I was like, maybe they liked me more than I'm expecting. You know, maybe I'm getting there. (laughs) And I think I remember that scene being good. - I really was just kind of the getting that strong reaction and then just like doubling down on, I'm still this. - Committing to the, like I doubled down acting wise. You know, I didn't like rethink game or unusual thing. I was just like, okay, wait, who am I? Old man pitching a record. Old banjo player pitching a record. - Yeah. - Okay, I'll do that. I'll just do that and the audience will see it. - Yeah. - You know, and it felt pretty good. I remember another one with Curtis. This is much shorter. The suggestion was alcohol and or hangover. And I was working on initiating simply, as you can see from my last example, I was having trouble with that. And I stepped out and I was just like, I sat down, took a big sigh and I was like, oh, god damn it, I got drunk last night. And he went good. That's good. And the audience laughed. And I felt good right there. Now, do we have a game? Not really. A guy's glad you got drunk. That seems like it, we're on the way to something, fun, you know, maybe given the situation. I think we said a couple lines later that he was my AA sponsor and yet he's trying to get me to get drunk because that means I'm so boring that it's making him sad. And it was good scene. - Yeah. - And it was, we didn't have a strong game at the top. But we had a hint of something. And oh, this is a time of we were not doing openings. - Oh, okay. - We just refused to do openings, which you could get away with for a while. So we were just going right off the suggestion. So I was like, I'm just using the suggestion in an initiation, putting some tone into it. You know, I sat down and felt like sad and guilty and said, oh, I got drunk last night. It felt like rich and full and simple and real. Those are the kind of break these I remember. I was like, oh, I'm turning into an actor. - Right. - I'm turning into someone who's very comfortable on the stage. And so I remember that way more than like game stuff. - Yeah. - For all my appearance as a cerebral nebyshy nerd, I'm not really so great at the math of it. - Yeah. - I've become better at what I originally was weakest at, which is acting stuff. - And it feels like for me, the acting stuff is always, I've thought of it as, that's what I could learn. Even more than like game and all that stuff. - Right. - I think all of it's learnable. - You don't feel like you can make yourself any funnier than you are. - Yeah. - Or more quick-witted. - Like I can only think as fast as I can think. That's not a muscle I can work too much. - Yeah. - Yeah. I guess I felt that way too. It's also like, there's certain pools of skills, you know, wit, sense of irony, patterns, and then truthful acting maybe. And if any one of them, you can like grow, there's upside in each of those like a lot. And they spill over. So okay, if I'm gonna focus on his truthful acting, and you really like kind of let that flood into all your choices, it'll help a lot of them. - Yeah. - It'll make your unusual things more realistic. It'll probably naturally lead to justifications. It'll react to patterns naturally, theoretically, you know. Similarly, if you're like pretty good at like game, if you're really good at ironic, unusual things, you can just, if you can just take anything and frame it as something ironic and funny. That's an awesome muscle that can help you and will theoretically help those other pools get better. So I leaned hard on truthful acting. Plus I think I had the most upside to gain there. I was weakest when I started. - That was Will Hines. How much you act in a scene is, one of the things you may have the most control over when you're improvising, you can either commit or you can stand there and not commit. Kind of seems like maybe you should then commit to your scenes. Be a specific person. It'll make the game clearer to you. It'll make what's fun clearer to your scene partner. It'll make your scenes more fun to watch in every way possible. That was episode 13, acting. Use the stage intentionally. Whether you're moving around or staying still, do it because that's what the character should do. Respond with more than just your voice. Use your whole body and steal from reality. Be specific in everything you do. Please rate and review the podcast on iTunes and if you have any feedback for me, please send it to [email protected] that's c-u-r-t-i-s-r-e-t-h-e-r-f-o-r-d.com. Thanks to everyone who has already done so and thanks to everyone who is part of this episode. - Jessica Morgan, Molly Thomas. - I'm Morgan Phillips. - Alex Dixon. - Sebastian Cannelley. - Liz Noth. - My name's Will Hines. and I'm Curtis Lutherford.