124 | Rise Up O Men Of God: Part 2 (with Jimmy Cating)

(singing) Hi there, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Jonathan Edwards with Pure and Simple Bible.com, and I'm very thankful to have you as a guest in the listener today. We're in the middle of a Bible study conversation with Brother Jimmy Cading from out in Oakdale, California, and Brother Jimmy is talking to us about the concept of "rise up Omen of God." And we've talked about Adam in the Old Testament and how he failed to rise up and the challenges that we face to rise up and be the men we should be. Now we left it off last week with a cliff hanger about boys with beards, and while that phrase may make me chuckle a little bit, it is a serious problem. So let's jump back into the conversation and learn what it takes to be a biblical man of God. Here we go. You contrast this biblical manhood with, I guess, what happens when we don't accept that responsibility, and you call it something that it's humorous, but it's also sad, and that is boys with beards. Would you tell us about boys with beards and maybe what we see in our culture versus what God's called us to be? Yeah, and I don't mean any disrespect by that phrase, but it's just a way of kind of showing the fact that it's possible for someone to look at them, to look like a man, but to act like a child, just because someone has gone through puberty doesn't make him a man. Boys, even though they may be older in years, they can be a boy if they shirt their responsibilities and neglect their opportunities to truly make a difference. I'm talking about boys who may be married, but they stay up late, playing video games while their wives fall asleep in bed, or boys who binge watch Netflix while their kids put themselves to sleep. Yeah. Boys who are too busy with their own hobbies to pay attention to the widow down the street who need some help. Boys who work hard for their toys and they don't really mind buying expensive gadgets and so forth, but they really don't have purpose for their lives. They're not really being intentional with how they spend their time or their money. Boys who may whine and complain about not being appreciated and not having their needs met. Boys who have to be handled with kid gloves because their egos are so fragile. There are sadly a lot of boys with beards and that's not what God wants us to be. I'm not talking about that all man have to have a beard or all men, you know, I'm in trouble. The facial hair or whatever, but in reality God is calling on all men to rise up to a greater purpose. Sure. Well, you know, I think something that's helpful and practical is not just calling out people for what they're doing wrong, but also offering encouragement for what they can do right. And I do like that about your study is that you're not only willing to call out the man child, you know, the boy with beard, but you're also asking for them to consider ways to fulfill that God-given purpose. So I was hoping maybe you could take a few moments and offer some practical challenges for us to grow as men. I'd love to hear them and I know others would as well. Okay, sure. Just a few suggestions, some practical challenges. Just kind of give you some ideas. They're not certainly limited to this, but you kind of explore the possibilities that are out there for all of us. One would be as a man, we should invite a godly man that we respect, a mature man, maybe in the faith that has been in the church for many years. Ask them to lunch. And while you're eating lunch, don't just talk about sports and the weather and shallow things, but ask them important things. Maybe five questions about faith and family. Yeah. Another thing you could do is send an encouraging text to your children. If you have children or tell them that you love them, tell them you're praying for them, even if they're adult children. Be vulnerable in that respect. Say, say you're sorry to someone specific and take responsibility for that, what you've done or maybe something you've neglected. Find a widow or a single mom. Ask if they need help with any projects, mold their yard or do something that may have been neglected that maybe get some other younger men involved to mentor them in that project and help them see what a man is like, what an example should be. Write a note of forgiveness. Seek out a leader in your congregation and ask what you can do to help serve. Take the initiative in that. If you are a leader in the church, get a group of young men together and go over their spiritual goals. Mipe out some practical ways to help them reach those goals. And then I'll just add this practical thing as it relates to your own marriage. Pray for your wife and pray with your wife and let her know. Let her hear that you're praying for her and see what happens. You know something I'd like to do Jimmy is I'm going to take that list. I know you said these words suggested there. You know that certainly it's not everything but man a list like this is so good to just have. I'm going to try to remember to copy and paste this list in the show notes of this podcast. So if somebody's listening to this and they don't see that then please shoot me a text or message and remind me to post that because I think it'd be good for some of our folks to kind of see that list and maybe even copy it themselves and have it because there's several in there that I know I could work on. I'm sure there's others who can do the same. So thank you. And when you talk about these these things, you're talking about responsibility. But I like in your your study notes how you kind of break down what responsibility is and what we should be thinking about as being responsible as man. Would you take him in and talk about that responsibility? Sure. You know the responsibilities of a man are kind of a broad. There's physical responsibilities. There's spiritual responsibilities. The physical responsibility primarily in 1 Timothy chapter 5 or say Paul tells Timothy but if anyone does not provide for his own especially for those of his own household he has denied the faith in his worst than an unbeliever. So God has given man the responsibility to work and provide for his family. That's the physical. There's a lot of physical aspects to that. That is a spiritual duty as well. But then there are spiritual responsibilities directly given to the Father in Ephesians 6 verse 4 where Paul says "And you fathers do not provoke your children to wrath but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord." So God doesn't give that responsibility to the church to raise your children. God doesn't give that responsibility to a preacher to teach your children or to a Sunday school teacher. He gave it to the Father and that demands of men to rise up to be attentive to be actively involved to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I'd like to ask you a question that's not in the notes. We're talking in kind of general terms. You know a point that's going to be made coming up pretty soon is how ideally or generally speaking a child's first perception of God is made by what they see in their Father. But before we get to that general point I want to I think almost as common as somebody having a good positive example of Father are those who don't. So my question would be how can Christians who maybe didn't grow up with a good Father figure who are struggling to see or emulate what a good Father is because maybe they didn't have one or maybe somebody is not living up presently and they're they need to turn their life around. Do you have any advice or practical tips for somebody who's maybe not have the best example of the dad and how they can kind of break that cycle for the next generation? Well a couple of things come to mind. First God Himself is our Father. God is a Father to the Fatherless and even if you didn't have a perfect example or maybe you We had a bad example. of a father. You need to look beyond that earthly example and look to your heavenly example and see From the scriptures the qualities and the characteristics of God. You see God is a father who is loving He provides for his children. He disciplines his children. He is fair. He is He is Just the perfect example in all aspects of what a father should be You know my I had a stepfather growing up and he passed away when I was a teenager and So I I kind of went through those very impressionable years without a father figure Directly in my family. So I made up my mind and I had to realize that I was not fatherless I had a father in heaven who loved me and I I know Through the scriptures how much he loved me and I tried to be like him and I still try to be like him But God has also given me the gift of the church and in the church I see many men who are those examples that have become father figures to me and I I actually Thrived on that and I Gravitated towards that in fact your father became a Spiritual father to me Doug Edwards is one of the greatest men I've known and he has had a great impact on me Directly and indirectly but just watching his his example and how he Raised his family, you know when you guys live in Indiana in those four years My high school year high school and college years I was at your house a lot and I could see and I could I I Witness that and and so I would encourage if you don't have a perfect example or a perfect situation God has provided you one and Just take advantage of it Thank you that I know I put you on the spot with that question, but I think you've answered it beautifully and I have as you do you've mentioned yourself and I have many friends in the church who they came from either blended or broken homes and Yeah, they've got they've got to look at God and they've got to look at brethren Who can provide that example? Maybe they didn't have so I'm just encouraged Not just those who don't have a father figure to seek out someone, but if you are a brother in the church a man who has a great family and you see somebody out there that doesn't Kind of adopt them in a way and bring them under your wing and kind of encourage them and model that and try to foster that relationship in others Well brother, let me ask the question that's that's I have for you in the notes and I think we can continue. I think we're gonna keep talking about what we've just mentioned slightly but You talk about how a child's first perceptions of God are often made by the Father. Would you maybe Continue to explain that thought and then why it's valuable and necessary for men to rise up to that challenge Sure, you know when Paul says that we are to bring our children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord That phrase suggests that Fathers are to emulate God and to substitute God's ways for our own ways When a father brings his children up in the training and admonition of the Lord It's as if the Lord himself is raising our children right and when a father loves and protects and provides for and leads his children then He begins to instill in their minds an image of God It's it's been said beautifully said a Child is not likely to find a father in God Unless he finds something of God in his father There there are exceptions to that obviously but That that that quote I think really embodies the the idea that whenever we as fathers Don't act like God We don't talk to our children. We don't love them. We don't discipline them. We don't provide them the Oversight and the authority that is instilling them this sense of respect and for authority It's it's going to be hard for them to relate to God to love him and honor him and respect him the way they they should But when a father does instill in the in their their children these godly qualities It's it's really a profound Head start as to our relationship with our children is going to help them in their relationship with God Unfortunately sometimes men shift that responsibility They allow the mother to take the entire load or leave it up to other men And and we we did talk about how other men can play and should play a role and a part but but listen really other people can't have A great or they can have a great impact, but they they cannot fully Substitute for your leadership. No one is going to be as impactful as the father if it's in the ideal situation and that's if that's possible So the admonition is to be watchful to stand firm in the faith act like man and be strong So how many marriages have been destroyed in homes that have been devastated and even souls that have been damned not because of something a man did but because of something he did not do uh-huh and And the churches just think of the churches that have drifted away over the years and the divine pattern that has been abandoned not because of something A man said but because of something a man failed to say right false doctrine comes in and people were too Well, there were too shy or too timid to stand up or to speak up at that time This is often the story behind the story, you know, sometimes we we will see problems surface and sometimes things will fall apart and will ask Well, what what happened? How did it how did it come to this whether it's in a church or whether it's in the family and not every time But far too often when you don't see or what you don't see is that there's a long history of a man who just didn't rise up To be the husband and the father the grandfather or the leader that he needed to be at the time he needed to be the most Now you you bring up the Example from the prophet Ezekiel and how You've got this list of oppressions and among them is some of the very warnings that you're talking about right now What's going on there? Yeah, that's right in Ezekiel 22 verse 29. It's interesting where God listed the sins of the people of Judah that led them to their doom and he said The people of the land have used oppressions committed robbery and mistreated the poor and needy and they wrongfully oppressed the stranger so I sought for a man among them Who would make a wall and Stand in the gap before me on behalf of the land That I should not destroy it But I found no one As one of the the saddest things you know God was looking for a man right but he couldn't find one and Today God needs men God needs you to be the man to stand in the gap because he's looking for a few good men to rise up You know, it's it's been said all that's necessary for evil to prevail. It's for good men to do nothing Yeah, yeah, that's that's really the case Well, if I'm let's say you know as the host I'm trying to represent everybody who's listening to this podcast For our listeners who are ladies they may be thinking well I can just skip this episode because it's not about me Or they might be frustrated because the only part of this that really was about me was the part where I messed up You know back in Genesis 2 But you you kind of pivot here in your study to Emphasize that the the woman is the helper whenever she was made as the help me for man is really worthy of Consideration in how men are to rise up that they need women in order to do that So can you maybe help us understand the how women can view this admonition and be a part of it? Well, I hope to you know God created the woman to be a help and You know, unfortunately Eve was a hindrance, but it's more often true than not behind every good man is a great woman. And when God created man, he announced it is not good for man that he should be alone. And so God created woman. He did so to make a helper suitable for him. That in no way should be considered demeaning to the woman. Right. And in fact, it's really kind of the opposite. It was the man who needed the help. And God is the one who made a helper for the man. And it happened to be the woman. So man hear that though. And they they ignorantly turn it into something derogatory or condescending. Yeah, she's the helper go go make him a sandwich. You know, kind of that kind of idea where she is his servant. But that's not what we're reading here. In fact, we need to be very careful when we look at that word helper. Have you ever thought of who else the Bible refers to as a helper? That's a good question. You know, there's a couple of places here in the New Testament in Hebrews 13, 6. The Hebrew writer says that the Lord is my helper. Mm-hmm. Well, not fear. And then John 14, 16, Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit as the helper. And he says that I will give you another helper that he may abide with you forever. So when the Bible says the woman was created as a helper, it should not be viewed as demeaning to the woman on the contrary. If anything, it should elevate her. It should show her her importance and her worth. And again, we ought to remember it was the man who needed the help. Right. Right. In fact, you go on the state that man was incomplete. And I like that. So it's it's a matter of helping complete what God had made. But you said in your notes that God has made a completer and not is it competitor? There was a mispelling. A competitor. Okay. Not a completer, but a competitor. Yeah, a competitor. That was just kind of a play on words. Well, you got me on it. That'll be clever. Will you help me understand that then? Yeah. God made a completer, not a competitor. So, one is to be the head and the other is to be the helper. When you have two heads competing, you end up with a two-headed monster, a two-headed body, a monstrous marriage, you might say. Moses said, "Therefore, shall a man leave, father and mother, and be joined to his wife, and they too shall be one flesh, one body of marriage, one vision, this idea of one flesh." When there are two visions in a marriage, there is literally "division", "division" meaning two visions, a double vision, and that's not what God wants. He doesn't want a division in our marriage. He doesn't want two visions. We're to be one flesh. And our ladies in the church are in a unique position to help, or a lady in a marriage is in a very unique position to help. I like how you break that down, whenever you, again, there's some very practical things you gave about how a man can be a man. But there's also some very practical ways that our sisters, specifically our wife and others who maybe close to us, they can help us rise up to meet the challenge that God has called for us to be men of God. What are these three ways that you talk about here being ways that women can help? Well, there are three options, there are three possibilities, and really one of them is the ideal. The other are really, we should avoid. The first option is for women, sometimes you try to help by inditing your man. We are weak and we are flawed, and you could point out a lot of things where we're not getting the job done. There's plenty of evidence against this. You know our flaws, you know our weaknesses. But Solomon advised against this kind of strategy. In Proverbs 21, 9, he says, "It's better to dwell in a corner of a house top than in a house shared with a contentious woman." So constant criticism, it clips the wings of a man, and it drills a hole in his leadership tank. It kind of deflates him. So you could indict, but it's not going to give you the success you're searching for. Another possibility is that you could instruct us. You could tell us not only what we're doing wrong, but how to do it right. And there are times when that's appropriate, that's needed. But I'm pretty sure that your husband didn't marry you, so you could be his mother. And I'm pretty sure he didn't marry you for that reason. You couldn't instruct us, but that really doesn't help in every situation. The real option that's the best option is that you inspire. So don't indict, don't spend all of your time instructing, but focus on inspiring. And I would suggest that you go with this because you inspire your man, your husband to create a culture of encouragement. Don't underestimate just how powerful your words are. Your encouragement is to him. A woman is to a man. It's been said, a woman is to a man. What wind is to a fire? She can fan it up or she can blow it out. I like that. And with your words, you can breathe life into your man's soul, confidence in his heart and strength to his backbone. Now, so I'm glad you clarified that. I'd said here's another list of things to do, but really the third one seems to be the one we should be aiming for. Can you spend some time telling me who Richard Wormbrand's wife is and how she fits that mold, that third inspiring category, how she kind of fits in there? Well, I came across this story from a book that was written called Tortured for Christ, written by Richard Wormbrand. He was a preacher in Romania behind the Iron Curtain. He was arrested in 1948. He was tortured for 14 years because he publicly said communism and Christianity were not compatible. So in his book, Tortured for Christ, he wrote, and I quote, "It was strictly forbidden to preach to other prisoners. It was understood that whoever was caught doing so or doing this received a beating. But a number of us decided to pay the price for the privilege of preaching. So we accepted their terms. We preached and they beat us. We were happy preaching. They were happy beating us. So everyone was happy." End quote. Now, I love one of his quotes in his book. He said, "Doing the work of God is dangerous, not doing it is more dangerous." And as we speak of this concept, this idea of rising up, "Oh, man of God," certainly the courage to speak up and to do what God wants. It's risky, but we need to weigh the alternatives. Now, to get to his wife, before Richard Wormbrand was arrested for his faith, the Communist Party was putting incredible pressures on religious leaders to endorse communism, which of course meant a rejection of the gospel. There was this rally where one by one, the religious leaders were standing up to give their endorsement of communism, knowing what would happen if they didn't. And it was almost Richard's turn to get up and to speak up. And his wife, Sabina, is sitting next to him in the crowd and she leaned over and she says to Richard, "Richard, stand up and wash away the shame from the face of Christ. They are spitting in his face." And Richard said to her, "If I do so, you will lose your husband. And she replied, I don't wish to have a coward as a husband." Wow. And in his book, he said, "Then I arose and spoke." Now, I love the quote that you put immediately following that. I think it's so encouraging for our sisters. to hear this, that God is not asking for you to be weak so that your husband can be strong. Will you break that down for me? - Yeah, in the case of this example of Richard and his wife, this, what she said to him may be shocking. And it may even seem a little cold and inconsiderate, but it is actually the help that he needed. - Right. - And it took great strength for her to say and to have that attitude. God is not asking for women to be weak. Submission is one of the most difficult things to do. Sometimes we use the word "meek." No, Jesus was "meek." We're commanded to be "meek." But "meakness" is not weakness. - Right. - What it means is to be strong and our strength under control, under restraint, and we're in control of it. And so there is tremendous strength found in a submissive heart. And ironically, you must rise up in order to bow down and submit to God. So that takes symbolically or figuratively speaking, we've got to have the spiritual fortitude, the courage to submit. And unfortunately, in the very first couple, we don't see two people bringing out the best in each other. We don't see Eve being the helper Adam needed her to be. She turned out to be a harmful hindrance. We don't see Adam being the leader Eve needed him to be. He turned out to be a passive partner. And when they sinned, both of them hid, neither of them would take responsibility, but ultimately God came looking. And when he came looking, he came looking for the man. He asked, "Where are you?" And I always found that interesting when God asked a question. It's not because he's ignorant, you know? He knows everything. - Yeah. - It wasn't because God had lost Adam. In fact, it was because Adam had lost God. And God asked this question so that he was trying to get Adam to take responsibility to step up, take the opportunity to fix the problem that he caused. And the challenge for all men is for us to have the courage to rise up, take responsibility to make the changes that we need to make, because one day we're going to answer before God. We're going, God's gonna come looking, he's gonna come calling, so to speak. And he's not gonna be concerned about our knowledge about sports and our standing and fantasy football or our high score, some video game, or even our resume, he's gonna be more concerned about what we've done as spiritual guides, spiritual shepherds in our home and the spiritual status of our hearts. - I don't know, sometimes I don't feel like I'm the right guy for the job, I don't want to bring this kind of stuff up because I don't feel like I've got it all figured out yet. But it's necessary because we constantly have to be reminded. I know you previously used an example of a cold that gets taken out of the fire, will kind of cool down a lot quicker than it does when it stays in the fire. I kind of see this study like not eating a meal. If you don't get the nourishment, then your body's gonna suffer for it. And so sometimes I don't feel like I'm the right guy to deliver this kind of stuff, but I know I need to because if we're not nourishing the body with this kind of information, then they're gonna be missing out on a whole lot. So it's a call to action for me to kind of get myself motivated. - I appreciate that humility and I certainly want to convey that I hope that what I say is taken in the spirit in which it's intended with love and humility. And I certainly am not perfect and want to continue to grow and learn. But I see this as a problem. And like I said, even the best of men are men at best. And a problem that we all struggle with is men and to be passive. And this admonition, Paul says, rise up, be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. And as we sing in the song, rise up, O men of God, the church for you to thwart her strength unequal to her task, rise up and make her great. That's our charge, that's what we try to do. Even when we fail, we don't give up, but we keep stepping forward, rising up, doing better today, trying to do better than we did yesterday. - Well, brother, thank you so much for coming on the show. And for talking with me about this, I think it's gonna be a very healthy conversation for others to listen to. And I hope they appreciate it as much as I have. - Thank you, brother. It's been a joy to be with you. God bless you. Thank you for all you do. And for this opportunity to share this message with your audience. And I pray and I hope that it's been helpful in some way. To God be the glory and great things he has done. - Amen, amen. What a great conversation. I felt so motivated by re-listing to it. And I hope that you feel good too. You know, when you see the title, rise up, O men of God. I mentioned it in the discussion with Jimmy. Sisters, if you see that title and you think, wow, this isn't for me, I'll just wait for the next one. I hope you didn't do that. Obviously, if you did, you wouldn't be listening to this right now. But I hope you felt encouraged too. Because in God's great plan for the family, it takes a man, it takes a woman. And then working together as the greatest team that God has created. So I'm thankful for Jimmy, for the time we got to spend together. There's so much in there for me to review and to think about. Like I said in my intro, man, I got my toes stepped on. Just thinking about what I need to do as a husband, father, to be a man of faith at home, but also in my community as well. And I hope that those of you who are listening, that if your toes were stepped on, that you won't just gingerly walk for the next day or two. But rather, you'll use it to improve and empower your walk with Christ. So thank you, Jimmy, and thank you everyone for listening. Until next week, you can go to the website and find a lot of great resources that are there for you to use and download absolutely free. And always remember, God loves you very much. And I do too. We're willing to do season two. Medu-de-de-de. (upbeat music) ♪ Do do do do do do do do ♪ ♪ Well I'm here to tell you a story ♪ ♪ A story that is true ♪ ♪ How about a judge by the name of Katie ♪ ♪ Yeah, he was a man like me and you ♪ ♪ Well, it's real, it's in some trouble ♪