123 | Rise Up O Men Of God: Part 1 (with Jimmy Cating)

[Demo] Why hello there and welcome back to the podcast. I'm so glad you're with us again, and I'm grateful to have a great Bible conversation. This week, Jimmy Cating is back in the studio with me via Zen Caster, and he's bringing a Bible study called Rise Up Omen of God. Are you ready to get your toe stepped on because I certainly got mine stepped on in this study, but it's such a healthy conversation to have about being a man of God. Let's jump straight into it, shall we? I'm glad you're back on the podcast with me, so thank you for joining me again in on the virtual studio. You're in California, and I'm in Texas, but we're meeting online, and I'm thankful to have this opportunity to study the Bible with you. Well, thank you, Jonathan. It's a joy to be with you, a pleasure to speak to you, talk about the Word of God with you, and thankful for this opportunity. Hope it's helpful to your audience. I do too. I think we're going to have some good feedback from it. I've enjoyed going through the notes already, and so I think people are going to really like it. Now, you begin with the reading from 1 Corinthians 16 13. So I'd like to read that and ask a question. It says, watch ye stand fast in the faith. Quit you like men. Be strong. And here's my question. What in the world is that verse saying? Well, that's a good question, especially when you read it from the King James version, and we're going to get into this a little bit later on in the discussion, but it really is a call for men to act like men. And to be strong, and we sing the song sometimes rise up, oh, men of God. And throughout the Bible, God exhorts and he challenges people to rise up. It's a call to action. It's an invitation for opportunity. It's a reminder of responsibility. And so that's the challenge that God really poses to all men, and that's really what I want to talk about today is God's call to men to rise up and be the man God needs you to be needs us to be. Now you use as your springboard into this call of what God wants men to be the first man. And you know, there's some maybe good qualities we can get, but there's also some not so good quality. So why, why did you start with Adam and what are we supposed to get from his example? Well, in Genesis chapter 2 and verses 15 and 18, the Lord God took the man, he put him in the garden of Eden to tend it to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man saying of every tree of the garden, you may freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat. And the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die. And the Lord God said, it is not good that man should be alone. I will make him a helper comparable to him. So we find here at the very beginning, the beginning of history where God actually created man and woman, and he did so for his glory, but, you know, unfortunately, the very first couple they don't really bring out the best in each other as God intended them to be. Right. So unfortunately, in the very first couple, we don't see two people bring out the best in each other. We don't see Eve being the helper Adam needed her to be, and we don't see Adam being the leader Eve needed him to be. As you, in that last thought, said Adam was not being the leader that Eve needed him to be. I'm sure there's going to be people who may, maybe they stiffen at the thought of Eve being inferior to Adam. But it really is important that we talk about Adam as the head of the home. So can you kind of break that down as far as him being the head. And what does it mean for her? Is she is she really inferior to him? Okay, well, that's a great question. You know, when God created the home, the Bible makes it clear that Adam was formed first and then Eve. Now, this doesn't mean that Eve was an afterthought. We know, of course, that God had a plan to create Eve before he did before the beginning. And so it doesn't mean she was inferior to Adam. Rather, God was setting up a structure by which he would establish Adam to be the governing head of the home and the one who would be ultimately accountable in the relationship. What this means, these Adam was, of course, formed first and then Eve and God created the man to be the spiritual governing head of the home. Paul speaks of this in 1 Corinthians 11, verse 3. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man and the head of Christ is God. And so this delegated order of authority was not based upon a culture, a cultural construct or even a custom, but it was really something that was based upon the order of creation. Before you read 1 Timothy 2, I see that in your notes, but I just wanted to emphasize that one more time that somebody might be listening to what you're saying and they might respond with, you know, that's just the patriarchy or that somebody trying to keep women down. But this is not a cultural construct. This is God's plan. And so these scriptures that you're reading are helping me and others, I'm sure recognize that that in the Christian faith that God has this delegated order of authority. I think, let me pause. I don't know if I ask you later, so I'm going to go ahead and ask it now. It's not in the notes. Disgods delegated order of authority. I mean, he loves people more or less based on where they're at in the totem pole. Oh, absolutely not. God is no respecter of persons. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 11, where he speaks of the the woman and man and that man being the head of woman, he also says that God is the head of Christ. And we know that God and Christ are equal. They have the same, they have the same importance. They are both deity. They are of equal value. And just because Christ was submissive to God does not make him inferior to God. We see that in Philippians chapter 2 that he was equal with God, but he lowered himself. He voluntarily submitted himself for the salvation of the world. And just because a woman is given a position of submission doesn't mean she is inferior. In fact, there's great strength in submission. We can talk about that later. But a woman recognizes that. And she for the salvation for the betterment of the of the home she submits to her role just as the man would submit to his role. I'll just throw in there too that if anybody has not listened to the podcast episode that you gave on an overview of 1 Peter, one of the things that you brought out in that study was that the submission that Christ had was one that was voluntary. It wasn't this blind acquiescence, but it was a fully understood and recognized ability to see the need to submit and the value in it. And so the other roles of submission in 1 Peter, kind of mirror that. I thought we could connect that to hear as well as that there's a recognize recognizing that this is a voluntary act. And very good. And when you we come back to 1 Corinthians 11 where Paul is talking about the delegated ladder or delegated line of authority. And just because the man is the head of woman, he wants man to understand that for man is not from woman, but woman from man, but there, but there was a dependence afterwards upon the woman. Even though all men or all the first woman came from the man, all men afterwards come from woman. Right. So there's this dependence that we have upon each other really in the overall scheme of things. Well, let me read 1 Timothy 2, which is in your notes. It's kind of a thing that set us down this path, but maybe I could read it and then you could help explain it to me. It says, let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence for Adam was first formed in Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. So why did you use that in this part of the study? Well, we learned from this passage that this delegated line of authority that we've been talking about is established not merely based upon the order of creation, although that is part of it. But there's more to it. this delegated line of authority. was also established because of what happened when Adam and Eve fell into sin. After God created Adam, he put him in the Garden of Eden to tend and to keep it Genesis 2.15. Before God even created Eve, God created or commanded Adam and he said of every tree of the Garden you may freely eat, but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat for in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die. So after God created Eve, it was evident that God's plan was for Adam to communicate his instructions that he had given to Adam before he created Eve, and he intended Adam to be the one to communicate it to Eve and it appears that Adam does so. In Genesis chapter 3, Satan appears to Eve in the form of a serpent and tempts her deceives her into eating of the forbidden tree and she evidently knows somewhat of what God says and she must have gotten that from Adam. Right. Now you bring out your notes that there is a bit of a difference between what God says and what Eve says. What's that about? Well, when you compare what God actually said to Adam and what Eve quotes to Satan, Eve makes several changes to the Word of God. They're subtle, but they're significant. And actually it made her susceptible to deception and that's an important lesson to learn. Whenever you change the Word of God, it makes you vulnerable to leave him and that's what happens here in this first fall. In Genesis 3 and verse 6, it says, "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave to her husband with her and he ate." Now in that last you know, people can't see your notes the way I can, but you've got it bolded and underlined. And so I expressed that for people who are listening that you have really emphasized this final statement. She also gave to her husband with her and he ate. Would you take a minute, maybe break that down and why it shouldn't be overlooked? Yes, she gave to her husband with her with her. Now that raises a question, where was Adam when he was tempted? Well the Bible says he was with her. Where was Adam when she was being deceived? Where was Adam when she ate of the fruit? Well the Bible says he was with her and it doesn't, that word for my understanding doesn't mean that he was merely with her in relationship, but he was with her in proximity. Eve didn't have to go find Adam. He was with her and it's not like she handed him the fruit and he was unaware of what it was and where it came from. He was with her and the Bible tells us that Satan deceived Eve, but Adam was not deceived. He knew what he was doing and he went into sin with his eyes wide open. He was with her and he says nothing. He does nothing. He goes along with her. So Eve takes the fruit, eats the fruit, then immediately gives it to her silent, passive husband who was with her. And I think really the process of his sin, even though it was obviously manifested in the eating of the fruit, but it actually began with his silence. Something needs to be said and he doesn't say anything. Something needs to be done. He doesn't do anything. Instead he silently goes along and follows the lead of his wife and they both sin. And what we see here is not merely what Adam does. It's really what Adam doesn't do. I like that. I'd like to, I'd like to even repeat it for emphasis sake. The Adam, it's not what he does, but what he doesn't do. And that's kind of the purpose of this study, right? Rising up on the men of God and what we're supposed to do, what naturally we don't do. That's right. When God meets out the consequences of their sin, he reaffirms his original intent that Adam should lead when he says to Eve, your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. Then he says to Adam, because you have heated the voice of your life and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you saying, you shall not eat of it. Cursed is the ground for your sake. In toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. So in 1 Timothy chapter 2 where the Bible explains that a woman is not to use surreth authority over the man, God in one sense prosecutes the passivity of Adam. Let's pause there for a moment. God, let me break that down. God prosecutes the passivity of Adam. What do you mean by that? Well, God is inditing Adam's sinful silence and his lack of leadership. And at the same time, God is imposing upon a woman a role of submission and silence for taking the lead. So therefore, by a divine role reversal of what had played out during the first garden scene when woman led and man was silent, God is reaffirming his original intent by demanding silence of the woman and leadership of the man. So really when you look at this, there's a burden placed upon both man and women in this passage that requires humility and submission from both. What would be this burden? You know, I think about it. I'm looking at Genesis 3 and I'm trying to see burden in here. Can you maybe break that down? Well, the burden is that while the woman will struggle with submission, the man must labor with leadership. And so when Adam failed to be the leader, God intended him to be, God is reinforcing that that he must be and the woman because she took the lead and Adam was really kind of submissive to her lead. He is imposing on the woman a role of submission that should have happened there at the beginning. So there's this heavenly, this heavenly admonition to rise up and fulfill the God-given role that he expects of both men and women. And it requires submission of both. Right. Right. Now in the Bible, since it's a book of patterns, you kind of take us down in your study on a pattern of passivity. Right? So what does that mean and what are some examples of it? Well, obviously, Adam is the first example. The first man, we see him struggling with a problem that a lot of men struggle with. Adam becomes a stereotype of the passive male. This pattern is repeated throughout scripture. Every man seems to struggle to some extent with this temptation to set silently by while sin is committed or when people need them to stand up. So there's many examples. It's been said that even the best of men are men at best. And we see some of the great heroes of biblical history succumb to the sin of silence. We see it with Adam or we see it with Abraham. When you get to Abraham and Sarah, God says to Abraham, you're going to have a son and he's going to be and from you will come a great nation and through your seed, all families of the earth will be blessed. And instead of waiting and eventually allowing God's plan to unfold, eventually Sarah is frustrated and takes matters into her own hands. It's taking so long she offers her servant, hey, to Abraham to have a child by. Now, this would have been the part in the story where Abraham, you would expect this man of God to say, no, this isn't right, this isn't what God wants. We're going to be patient. We're going to be faithful to him. You're my wife and I'm not going to do this. But instead, what Abraham does is he says nothing. It appears. Yeah. And like Adam, Abraham was silent and passive and his silence is really still speaking 4,000 years later, ishmael, hagar, son whose descendants comprise the Arab nations despise Israel to this day. And so we see just the ripple effect, the long-lasting ramifications of how loud silence can speak. Now, and he's not the only one, right? There's other examples. That's right. And we could go on and on. We see in the story of Jacob, the story of his son Joseph. No, before he is sold into slavery, the Bible says that Joseph's brothers inved him, but his father kept the matter in mind, Genesis 37 and 11. So what we have here is a case where Dad knows that there's a problem, and he doesn't do anything about it. He just kind of keeps it in mind. He thinks about it, but he doesn't really take action. He doesn't say anything. He could have nipped it in the bud, and he could have prevented a lot of heartache, but instead he just kind of lets it go. And the next thing we know is the brothers are selling Joseph into Egypt because of Jacob's passivity. Right. Right. What about Eli? Well, Eli is another example. He's a man in position of great respect. He's the high priest, but he learns that his sons are stealing the offering and seducing the women who are serving in the tabernacle of all things. You know, this was a major disgrace and shame. And God says of Eli in 1 Samuel 3 verse 13, "I've told him that I will judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knows because his sons made themselves vile and he did not restrain them." And so again, you have this problem. You mentioned how whenever you follow this pattern that really laziness isn't at the heart of it. What's at the heart of this problem of passivity that all these characters have? Yeah, you look at these great men. They were not lazy. They were men of God. Many of these men in the Bible who at times remain silent and fail to step up. They're not unsuccessful failures. They're kings and priests and warriors. And yet when it came to certain aspects of their lives, they step back and they sit down. And here's why, I suppose. As men, we have a tendency to say or do something only when we have a surety of success, but we're confident that we're going to be successful. And we have a tendency when we think that we might fail not to do anything. So when we are not sure how to fix a situation or handle someone's feelings or are confident that we can help them, then that's when we become more passive. We just kind of ignore it. Maybe hoping that things will get better on their own. Well, that's a powerful point to make that we would only want to do something when we're sure of success or sure of our strength. But you also bring out part of this remaining silent or the failing to step up that in Adam and then also in all of these patterns as well, but there may have been an unawareness, specifically an unawareness of the threat. Could you perhaps explain what that might mean and what are the implications of it when Adam was unaware of the threat? Well, when we ignore a problem and maybe we're passive about it, it's because like I said earlier, we may not know how to fix it. We're hoping that it'll take care of itself and we kind of rationalize that it's not that big a deal. And perhaps part of the reason Adam remains silent is because he didn't realize that the serpent, the devil was such a threat. The Bible describes the serpent as more subtle than any beast of the field. That means he was crafty, he was kind, he was sly, he was deceiving. And I think he deceived Eve, but certainly in some respect, Adam fails to see the danger that is before him. Yeah. He doesn't see that this is an act of war against his home. So he doesn't say or do anything. So he's unaware of the threat and you use Hollywood to kind of help enhance that point. There's a movie called The Patriot. How does it help establish the point you're making? Well, in this movie, The Patriot, there's a scene where Mel Gibson, who is the, he plays the main character. He's the father in this family and he doesn't go to war when the Revolutionary War breaks out. He knows the pain that war brings to people. He knows the pain that war can bring to his own soul. And so there's this struggle that he experiences. He does everything he can to avoid the war. But the war begins to take its toll on his family and his own community. In fact, there's this moment in the movie when the war is literally being fought in his front yard. And it wasn't until his son, his own son is killed that he is immediately convicted about the fact that he has not been fighting in this war. And the woman that he loves tries to console him, reassure him. And she says to him, "You've done nothing to be ashamed of." And he says, "I have done nothing." And for that, I am ashamed. And I think that really is illustrative of a lot of us men. We fail to realize that there is a war that's taking place, a war being waged in our front yards. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a tragedy to wake us up. What is this war being waged? What is this war? Are we speaking in kind of poetic terms here? What should I as a man be preparing for, whenever you mention war? Well, that's a good quote. You know, the Bible actually talks about the battle that we're in. It's not against flesh and blood, but it's against spiritual forces. Ephesians 6 verse 12, Jesus speaks of the devil as an enemy, John 10 verse 10, an enemy that will come the kill and to steal and to destroy. So we're not talking about taking up arms and fighting a foreign enemy or even a domestic enemy that we can see with our eyes and shoot at with guns. But it's a spiritual battle for the heart and the soul and the minds of our family and those that we love. Now, you at this point in your study, you bring back in that verse that we read at the very beginning. 1 Corinthians 16 verse 13. And you, you, I guess use it in its proper context, where you're trying to get men to step up. Do you mind maybe taking a moment reading that in a couple translations and explaining what it is? Sure. You know, going back to 1 Corinthians 16 verse 13, Paul admonishes men to stop acting like boys. And he uses the language, watch ye stand fast in the faith. Quit, quit you like men. Be strong. The ESV or English standard version says, be watchful, stand firm in the faith act like men. Be strong. So, you know, notice Paul doesn't say act like man. He explains what it means to act like man. He doesn't just say be a man, but he tells us what that looks like. What does it look like? Okay. Well, as you continue reading, he says, be watchful. So we're talking about the problem with passivity and Adam, realizing the danger that he was facing. Paul says, you want to be a man, you want to act like a man, be watchful. Pay attention. Realize that there is an enemy. Open your eyes, be alert and be attentive. One of the problems, a lot of times as fathers or as husbands is that we just, we close our eyes and we don't really pay attention or we let somebody else do it or take care of it. But that's not their responsibility. As a father, it's my responsibility to be alert to the dangers my kids are facing. As a husband, I have to be alert to the dangers that my wife may be facing. And as a Christian leader, I need to be alert and be watchful of the dangers that the church may be facing. And then he says stand firm in the faith. He doesn't say sit firmly in the faith. I think the language is kind of indicative of what we're talking about. Rise up, O man of God. He says, stand, stand firm in the faith. Get ready, get ready to fight. The man of God must rise up because the enemy knows that if he can neutralize the man, he can get to the family. And if he can get to the family, he can get to the church. So what does he need from men to pull all of that off? Nothing. Right. All the devil needs for men to do is really kind of just sit back, kick back in your lazy boy, watch TV or you know, get on the internet, just kind of don't realize that there's a subtle serpent slithering underneath the foot, footrest of your recliner. So get up, pay attention, be watchful, he says. Just a few chapters earlier, in chapter 13, to illustrate Paul's point on the duration of spiritual gifts. He makes this illustration. He says, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child. I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things." And he tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 3, verse 1, "I cannot speak to you as spiritual men, but as carnal babes." Well, when you mentioned these scriptures, you know, I was going to ask, you know, Jimmy, is this just your opinion about what men need to be, but then you quote from the Bible, all of these scriptures where we're supposed to act like men, be prepared as men, put away childish things. You contrast this biblical manhood with, I guess what happens when we don't accept that responsibility. And you call it something that it's humorous, but it's also sad. And that is "boys with beards." Would you tell us about "boys with beards" and maybe what we see in our culture versus what God's call this to be? Oh, we're going to cut it off right there. And if you want to know about "boys with beards," as Jimmy is going to help us understand from the scriptures, you got to come back next week. And yeah, these cliffhangers, they can be a little frustrating, but it is helpful for me to break them up and get more episodes out of these interviews. So come back next week, find out about "boys with beards" and what else the scriptures have to say about "men of God" and why we need to rise up and become the man that God would have us be. Until next week, you can go to the website, check out all of the resources that are there for you to use and utilize, absolutely free. And until then, this is Jonathan Edwards. Always remember, God loves you very much, and I do too. We're willing to do this easy. [Music]