#117 Stop People Pleasing: How To Set Boundaries (And Say No) | Charlamagne Tha God

What do you do to stop Karen about the haters? How do you deal with that? You just genuinely got to not give a fuck. We're all in verbally abusive relationships with our smartphones. Why would you go to a place where somebody's constantly telling you that you ain't shit? If you were married to a person like that, you wouldn't stick around in that relationship. So why do we take our monkey asses over to social media, especially with her? Charlene and the God has built his career by telling the truth out loud and doing the inner work to handle the fallout. In this episode, we're going to get tactical about how to have difficult conversations, how to win, what it takes to win, how to deal with things that's not going well. And we're going to break down the biggest lies people tell themselves about the world around them, acceptance, and how to actually make yourself better without hating yourself. What do you think the most important question is to ask in a conversation when you want to find the truth? I definitely think it's why. In particular, politicians always ask the question twice. I aspire to be this level of 50 cent petty. Like talk to me about what's happening. The things that I've seen, I get it. Don't offend the wrong person. That's one of the 40-law's problems. Do not offend the wrong person because you might have an enemy for life. So I kind of want to start with the fact that you've interviewed all of these legends for years. And I'm so curious. When you're interviewing big names, one of the most interesting parts for me listening to you is like, you don't let them go easy. Like you got the hard questions almost always. With like a lot of empathy. I think. Now, nowadays, nowadays more empathy. Interesting back in the day you went out of them. I wasn't even thinking about it. It was just like, you know, I didn't even look at them as humans, so to speak. I was just, you know, I had a job to do. And I felt like I wanted to ask these questions as a curious person, right? And because, you know, I always want to ask the questions that other people want to know about. And so it's just like, I was going to do that regardless. So I didn't even look at a person as a human. I know that sounds crazy, right? But I really didn't. It was just the subject of an interview, you know? And I didn't think about this person. It's going to leave here. And they might have a whole family or kids or, you know, they're going to be thinking about, you know, these things later on. Like, you know, so it's just like, I just just asked the question. Now do you think you're nicer? Are you softer? Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I would hope so. I don't like, yeah, nicer, softer. Like those aren't negative words, right? Like a lot of people like that, like those are negative words in this business. But I mean, some of the nicest, most softest people are known as some of the, you know, greatest interviews ever. Greatest interviewer's ever. Like, you know, personally, I like, you know, the Larry King's of the world, right? Because they just had an intellectual curiosity. I remember one time Larry King told me, God bless the day. Larry King said, the most important question you can ask in an interview, Shalameen. Is why? And so that's a simple question, but it does help you to dig, you know, very deep. But then I love the interview style of people like, you know, Barbara Walters as well, you know, it might have came off as, you know, an intrusive and aggressive, but she knew that she had a job to do. And if that person is sitting in front of you as a, you know, just a fan of culture, you have certain questions you're going to ask. But you also know that the people watching have questions they want you to ask. So I think it's a combination of both. So nice, nice, nice isn't a bad intention to approach, you know, an interview with like, you can still be nice and still ask the hard, it's questions. Oh, I definitely think it's why. And I definitely think when you're, you know, interviewing people in particular politicians always ask the question twice. Because when you ask the question, they'll have a prepared answer for it, right? But then when you ask them again and say, but why? Now they really got an answer from the human aspect and not the politician. We sat around with our team and neither the answers we came up with to answer, you know, this question, they really got to answer it. So I think, you know, asking whatever the question is twice, but when you, when you ask it again, that's when you hit them with the, but why though? Interesting. Do you, how much do you prep for an interview? Oh, a lot. What does that look like? Like I said, I'm a fan of culture. And when I say culture, I don't just mean entertainment. I mean, everything from sports to, you know, politics, because politics is pop culture now to, you know, spiritualness, mindfulness, mindfulness, like all of these different things. So I'm usually already kind of well versed on whoever it is. I'm sitting down and talking to, but then, you know, when you're sitting down and having an interview, you just want to see what's really going on, like in that moment, because usually like most people have something going on in that moment that you would want to talk about. If it's an author who has a book out, read their book, you know, if it's a, you know, person who dropped the movie or TV show, watch the movie, watch the TV show, just so you can be, you know, well versed on on that individual. But I also like the sense of discovery that happens in interviews. So you don't want to be over prepped, right? Because sometimes you'll be talking to a person and you kind of already know where they're going with the conversation. So you might be saying things before they say it. So it's like sometimes I just like the sense of discovery of finding things out, you know, in conversation. It's interesting. I think about it a lot. I mean, you have a giant audience. But I remember, like, it was just a few weeks ago when I realized, wow, one episode, if you consider shorts and YouTube too, it's going to get a couple million people to watch it. And if that means there's a million hours spent listening to this moment, it's kind of fucking scary. I love it. I better value it. Yes. What if we waste their time? What if we give them a bunch of bullshit? But that's the thing. What you just said, Cody, is absolutely true. But I look at it also from another angle of, and I know this goes sound dark. Well, what about when these people die? Like literally, like over the last 15 years, I've had conversations with a lot of people who are no longer here. So when I sit down with people, that's what I think about. What if this is this person's last conversation ever? You know, what if it's my last conversation ever? But usually, when you're talking to these people, yes. You know what I'm saying? But usually when you're talking to these individuals, these are moments in time that when, you know, this person gets older, they might use for documentaries. When this person passes away and they might use for documentaries, these are things that people, that other interviewers are going to reference when they sit down, you know, to have conversations with these individuals. Like, "Yo, I saw you on, you know, Cody Chan said so. I saw you on Breakfast Club of Shalimane." And you said this, like, so that's another way that I approach those conversations as well. That's interesting. You seem pretty obsessed with what you do. Are you? I think you got to be. I think you got to be obsessed with, you know, whatever it is that you do to actually have success. Like, you know, if you're not obsessed about something, like, you know, if you're not obsessed about, you know, being on these microphones are for the broad James, Kobe Bryant, Michael Judd, you know, you know, God bless the day, Kobe, if they're not obsessed with what they do on the basketball court, if you're a public servant, if you're not obsessed, you know, with, you know, doing the bidding of the people in the streets, right? Like, we're not obsessed with what it is that you do, then why are you doing it? Like, that's why they call it a passion. Like, that thing that you would do for free, you, yeah, so I'm obsessed with communicating on these microphones. I'm just 100% because I look at myself, you know, like a public servant and because I know that, you know, I am serving the needs of the public every day, whether it's through making them laugh, whether it's through, through informing them, you know, whether it's through, you know, having somebody on that's going to say something beneficial to them that's going to get them, you know, on a, on a path of righteousness, which spirituality or, you know, decide to start going to therapy because you know, we have conversations about mental health, whatever it is, you got to be obsessed with what it is that you do. How did you figure out what you were obsessed with or how did you find this path? I think so many people and a lot of people listening, they say that like, I don't know what I'm passionate about or, yeah, maybe I want to have a podcast or is that just mimetic desire? Like how does somebody who's totally lost and not sure what they're obsessed in? Is there a trick to find what you could become obsessed with? Man, that is an amazing question. It's a layered question because I can only speak for me, right? When I started off, I was born in 1978, right? So I started doing radio back in 1998, right? I started off as an intern in Charleston, South Carolina at Z93 Jams in 1998. And the reason I even, you know, got there is because I was just trying to find something positive to do because of the way I was living in the street. And it's so funny that all of the things I would get in trouble for in school being disruptive, you know, talking too much, being the class clown. All of those things were actual qualities that when I got on the microphone helped me, right? So when I started off doing radio, I started off as an intern in 1998. I didn't get on the air until like 1999. I always got to sloop my guy around white. He texted me to dance that I think this is one of those times where you're ignoring me. I got me on, got me, you set a boundary with me and he's right. But slooped my guy around. But he's the first person to ever put me on air, right? Because I was an intern and I worked in the promotions department. So I would drive the van and put posters up and all of that stuff and the other taxable talent was on, you know, doing their remotes. But then Ron was like, yo, have you ever thought about being on the air, right? And I'm like, no, but what's up? And so they started putting me on it. and it was literally one of those things that I just knew this is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I remember the moment I was in the radio station doing overnight, overnight, to midnight to six in the morning where it just hit me like, this is what I wanna do for the rest of my life. But I don't just wanna be a local radio personality, you know, doing the time and temperature, you know, in a city, I wanna be a super jock. You know, the super jocks back then with the time joiners, you know, in the Doug Banks, you know, God bless the day. It's luthin' my guy Russ Par, you know what I mean? How it's stern, Angie Martinez, Wendy Williams, those are the people you thought about when you thought about like the super, super jocks. And that's what I wanted to be. And I knew that I wanted to be that since 1999. - Wow. - And-- - Oh, and I wanna add one more thing. - Get in there. - And my first book, Black Privilege opportunity comes to those who created New York Times bestseller. - Great book, I read it. - Thank you very much. - Of course. - I have a chapter called Fuck Your Dreams. And the reason I say fuck your dreams is the name of the chapter but the actual ideology is fuck your dreams if it's not your dream. A lot of times we see things working for other people and we say to ourselves, you know what? This is what I should be doing. But that's not what God has planned for you. Like God has something destined for you to unlock your greatness, but you gotta figure out what that is. Like it's not just 'cause you see everybody with a podcast, don't mean that you should have a podcast. It's 'cause you see these people on radio having success doesn't mean that you should, you know, run to be a radio personality. Like, you know, you should, even if you feel called to those spaces, number one, ask yourself why, right? What is your actual intention? If it's to, I wanna make money and I wanna be famous, that's not a real intention. What is your actual why to wanting to be in these spaces? And if you do feel called to be in these spaces, explore every aspect of this space. Like right now we're recording this podcast in this studio. Somebody had to set up these cameras. Somebody had to set up these microphones, right? There's producers that are listening to us talk right now. There's all type of ways to be in this space, being in this business and not be doing what you and I are doing right now. So that's what I would tell folks, you know, if you do feel called to certain spaces and certain areas, doesn't mean that you post to be Cody, doesn't mean that you post to be Shawler main, figure out what that means and why you're being called. - You know, you talked about wanting to be a superjock and let's just call that like the greatest, one of the greatest of your profession. What do you think it takes to be the greatest in any profession? Like these days, there's a lot of people that'll say work life balance matters a lot. Can you have work life balance on your way up to greatness? - Yes. I might have answered that different some years ago. But yes, you can have work life balance. I would actually tell people that, you know, in this profession, work life balance is actually what's probably going to make you have more success. Because for what we do, you know, on these microphones, being able to communicate life in a way that connects with people is what kind of makes people gravitate towards us. So you got to live life in order to be able to do that, right? So when I'm, you know, like I just came back from Cape Town, you know, South Africa and I was there throughout the whole holidays and it's just interesting to watch people from other countries and how they gravitate towards, you know, somebody from another country just because they've been listening to them, you know, for so long. And one of the things that a lot of the people kept coming up to me saying was, thank you for embracing our continent the way that you do. Thank you for having, you know, they were naming different, you know, African talent that has been on the show, whether it's, you know, people like the Vito or Bernaboy, or, you know, me being friends with my homegirl DJ, a couple, you know, Bo Nang, like they were, you know, my man, Casper, Casper, I'm a mispronounced laughing. I'm just going to say Casper, y'all know what I'm talking about. But they were coming up to me because of the way that I connect with them and how I'm able to communicate my experience as a black American appreciating what it is that they do, they do and bringing them on my platform and having a conversation. So it's just, I think that, yeah, you work like balanced matter. Like I'm able to go to South Africa and like experience that place for myself. And then now come back to America and talk to my listeners who may never have been to South Africa. I've had the pleasure of being, you know, going to Johannesburg and Cape Town. And that might make more people want to go to Cape Town and Johannesburg just listening to me communicate my experiences there. So yeah, I think you gotta have, you gotta have work life balanced because you have to live life, right? And not even just in this profession, just in general. Like, yeah, do yourself a favor and go live some life. You got 168 hours in a week. You know how much time that is? Like, 168 hours, you should have more than enough time to do what it is you gotta do as far as you're living in your career is concerned. But also go out there and just have some time for yourself and your family. - You know what I think we should talk about that we talked about before. We were talking about time. And I set a line like, we gotta be done at this time. I'm always, I worry about not respecting people in time. I'm married to a military man. So he really associates lateness or extension with disrespect, which is kind of like a military mentality. So I was like, oh, I'm gonna make sure we're out on time. And you had like a really interesting take on a book you had read in two different types of time. - Yeah, it's this book that I love to read. It's called The Big Leap. Like I read it often. But it's written by Gay Hendrick. And he talks about Newtonian time and Einstein time. And Einstein time, if I'm saying it correctly, Einstein time is basically us realizing that we create time. Now I do agree, you should respect people's time. But when we say things like, oh, I don't have the time for that. Yes you do. You just don't wanna do it. And you're using time as the scape code. And the example he uses is like, your kid might walk in and your kid might ask you to play. And you'd be like, I don't have time for that right now. But if your kid walked in and your kid was, you know, cutting bleedin', you would stop everything. And you would have the time to do whatever it is to make your child stop bleedin', stop feelin' that paint. And so it's just the way we look at, you know, what time is, instead of treating time like it's something that's out of our control, you know, where a victim to it. No, you have all the time that you create. - So do you not say the words I don't have time? Do you replace it with something? - That's why I constantly read books. The same book over and over, right? I mean, like when I'm really into a book, I read it over and over because you want to constantly try to practice these things that you are learning in that book. But yeah, it's like, there's no such thing as not having time. You, the other saying that we always says, you make time for what you want to make time for. (laughs) So instead of saying, I don't have time, I don't want to right now. Like it's like, somebody comes to me right now and it's like, hey man, you know, I would really love if you would be at such a sudden blah, blah, blah, you know, oh, you know, let me talk to my assistants. I can check my schedule and see if I can squeeze it. You don't really want to do it because things that you actually want to do, oh my God, I'm there. Like, yo, let's figure it out. Like, you know, that's when you hit your team and like, yo, this person wants me to do X, Y and Z, B, X, Y and Z, let's figure it out. And I think that's actually what it is. Instead of saying, I don't have time to be like, I don't want to. That's my, yo, this year right here is all about the, no, like that's the, that's really a boundary that I think that we are just afraid to set a lot. Like we're afraid to tell people no because all of us are people pleases, you know, in different ways. And we all want that validation from other humans and we hate telling other humans, no, because we feel like if we tell them no, then they're not going to look at us the same or they're not going to respect us the same or they're not going to speak of us in a positive way. There's nothing wrong with telling somebody, no, I don't want to right now. - What's good that you say that, 'cause I think, you know, if I was to just watch you on the internet, I might not think Charlemagne the people pleaser. I probably, that's probably not like one of the things I would label you, you know? And so I think people would say, no, he probably sets pretty firm boundaries. I bet he's really good at that. But is that even something that you've struggled with? - Oh, absolutely. I've been a people pleaser for a long time. And I mean, people pleasing doesn't always look like just allowing people to do whatever it is they want, you know, you to do. Sometimes people pleasing looks like being overly aggressive in an interview, you know what I'm saying? You know, bombarding somebody with questions because you're worried about what the people watching are going to say about you. If you got a reputation, right? As this hard hitting question asker, then you feel like you got to ask the hard hitting questions. That's people pleaser. If you're doing it because you're worried about how other people are going to take it, how other people are going to consider it, how other people are going to view it, that is people pleaser. - It's interesting because you've been, you know, you've been at this game a long time. And you've had, I don't know, people hating on you for things. You've had people loving on you things for things. You've had some of the same people who used to love you, hate you for things. - Yeah, that's right. - You know? And so I'm curious to you, like what do you do Tiss! - Stop caring about the haters. Like what do you do when you're getting backlash? Everybody seems to be talking shit. Nobody likes you. - You just genuinely got to not give a fuck. And I have two people in my life that gave me great pieces of advice that I always reference, even if at times I didn't always feel feel what they were saying. Like I didn't apply it, right? My man, Cadillac Jack, who along with my guy, G-Sman, put together the Breakfast Club. Cadillac Jack told me early on in the Breakfast Club, I need you to remember the rule of 10. What's the rule of 10? The rule of 10 is three people gonna like you, three people not gonna like you, four people don't even know what the fuck's going on. And that is very true in life. Like that is just the absolute truth. Like we are so concerned about what everybody thinks and we think everybody is paying attention to us. Four people don't even know what the hell is going on. And then the three people that like you, they gonna like you no matter what. The three people that don't like you, they're not gonna like you no matter what. But guess what, the algorithm don't know the difference. So when the three people that like you were talking about you, great. When the three people that don't like you were talking about you, great. Your name is just all throughout the algorithm. My daddy used to always say to me, you're never as good as they say you are and you're never as bad as they say you are. That one I've always understood. I've always been like right in the middle with that. And I mean, that's really just life, right? Like you have to be a very egotistical, narcissistic person to think that everybody likes you and to think that everybody's thinking about you, right? Like there is nobody on this planet. Forget humans, there is nothing on this planet that everybody universally loves, not even God. Like no, I want you to just think about that for a second. There is nothing, not even puppies, not ice cream. Some of the purest things that you can think about, there is nothing on this planet that everybody universally loves. So for me, hey, man, I'm just happy I make you feel something. I really genuinely feel that. I'm just happy I make you feel something 'cause I would rather be thought of in some way than to not be thought about at all. - This is a secret nobody shares. I've done thousands of deals, but until now, I've never shared the most valuable 10% publicly because I wanna buy these businesses myself. Then I realized that if you guys buy the businesses, I get to do the deals with you. So this year at Main Street Millionaire Live, it is your chance to see our insider strategies. I'll teach you how we find, buy and scale a business step-by-step with the frameworks that I literally use to buy all these businesses. So if you wanna go from an aspiring owner to someone actually running a profitable business, join me, I'll give you my blueprint and maybe we end up doing deals together. - You had this conversation with 50 cent. Before he put out the documentary. And you had like, you basically like, we're like, prescient about what was happening in the world. And now, I mean, it's not really therapy for 50, but like watching him hold this level of revenge is am I a sick person that I watch it? And like the memes that are like, I aspire to have this level of revenge the 50 cent has. - Yeah. - I mean, 50 is a cancer, I'm a cancer. So I understand 50's level of petty. - You do? - I completely understand 50's level of petty. Plus I'm privy to like, a lot of the whole back story between him and somebody like Diddy. So I get it. And it's funny, I've been having, it's so 50 is such an interesting person to me. And I've been having these conversations about 50 for years. I remember it started with, I remember a long time ago, a couple of executives in the business was talking to me about 50. And they was like, why, you know, why is he always got to go after urban job? Why can't he just finally, God bless you, then? Why can't he just let it go? I'm like, he got shot nine times. They've had fist fights. They got stabbed, he got stabbed by them. Like, you wouldn't really let that go either. Like, yeah, that's not something you could just, I don't even think a therapist could tell you just to let that go. And they were like, you know what? You right? So there's always, and I remember 50 said this one time. I 50 was like, people always see, when I punch, but they don't see when the person swung at me first. Oh, God. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying that, you know, T, T, I'm not saying everything, you know, T, T does is justified. 'Cause I really don't know. But from the things that I've seen, I get it. I can completely understand it. And that's why you gotta just be, you know, very, don't offend the wrong person. True. That's one of the 40-year-old apart. Do not offend the wrong person. 'Cause you might have an enemy for life. I would never want to like 50, like, you know, like just cut the podcast, edit it out. And honestly, men sometimes that, man, that is therapeutic within itself. Like, just saying, fuck a person. I'll fuck with you. Like who says we have to fuck with people? Yeah, I know. Like who says that? Like who, we talked about that statement, money is through to all of it. Who told us that we gotta forgive everybody? Who told us that, you know, we gotta love everybody? Like who's, who said that? Like, sometimes it's fucked this person. And it's fucked this person for life. And I don't fuck with him. And people be like, man, you exhausting too much energy on that individual. Says who? And what if I want to exhaust this energy on this individual? Like what if I want, you know, to do exactly what it is that I'm doing and it makes me happy to do it? Who am I to tell that person that they're wrong? And by the way, whatever energy comes back to you from doing that, he gotta deal with that. And I think he's fully aware. Yeah. I think he's fully aware of it and it does not bother him in any way, shape or form. And there's a certain level of freedom that I admire. It is. That's smile when he does. It's a certain, and by the way, I've had these conversations with him like, you know, on air, off air because I've been, I've been, he's one of the most interesting, you know, people to me, just because he's a cancer and there's a lot of things that I relate to. But. And he seems like a smart motherfucker. Oh, he's a, I think, you know, you don't, you don't come out of the South Side, you make a queen's and achieve the things that he's achieved, you know, achieve things lost things, gone on back triple and not, you know, not even having success in multiple industries. That's what, that's what he don't get enough credit for. Yeah, he did his thing in music, but he went from an artist, started his own label, had successful artists under his label like, this is another, I'm glad we're having this conversation as well. But he's another person that I really look at, you know, as a blueprint because that's what you're supposed to do. I remember, and he says things that I remember. He said, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a general with G unit. But I'm a soldier when I'm with M and M and Dr. Dre. That right there is a, a, a jewel because I hate when people say things, like, yeah, but you work for a corporation and also own a lot of things on my, as well, right? I, like, so what's the problem? I'm like, you can do, you can do both. And to watch him go from a talent, right? To start his own record label, they're having four or five successful artists, then having success with clothing, having success with a sneaker didn't now in television and filmed, you know how hard that is. This guy has multiple franchises of various TV shows. And he lost it. That's the part that I felt like coming back, like the mental fortitude to lose it, to be in bankruptcy. Like it, you can make it, you can make it, but to lose it and get it back and to get it back. Ooh. Yeah. And to, and to, and to remain himself throughout it all. I actually think sometimes he does that just to remind himself, I'm still me. Let me go, let me, let me, I'll be feeling that sometimes. Like, you know, yeah, let me, yeah, let me, let me, let me, let me find somebody to really go at it with right now, just to remind myself, I'm still me. Like I, I don't know, I got, I got a lot of respect and, uh, I'm going to clip this out every time somebody talks shit. I'm going to relisten to you. And I'm going to remember this. But listen, don't listen to me though, because I'm a cancer and I'm still dealing with my own stuff too. So I can't hold revenge. Like I think it's a little healthy to be able to keep like a little bit of that. Yeah. And I like, and I like anti-heroes. Oh, yeah. That's my thing too. I'm a, I like anti-hero. Do you have one? Do you have like a, a, a, like, 50, has one? Um, you have one? Yeah, fuck that guy right now. I won't say his name, but Dan. Yeah, but I already won. Shoot. He never, yeah, I didn't want several. I've had a few, but I've won. I got so it's like it's, it's not the same. There's nobody I really want to like, uh, song up on them. What do you know? And probably, you know what? Probably I've never had one to that level. I probably never had one to that level. I've had, I've never had nobody try to like physically. Like, well, you know, I'm lying. I've had, I've had people send people to physically harm me, but it's like a punch in the face. Like, you know what I mean? It's not like a shooting or a stabbing or anything like that. So, yeah, but when I say I like anti-heroes, I like the Batman's of the world. I like the, you know, Tony Stark's the Deadpool's, the Wolverines. I like those type of anti-heroes. I'm the guy that, you know, I would, I root for the villain in movies sometimes, you know? And, and to me, like 50 is the ultimate hip hop anti-hero. What about you? You know, You know, you've been doing breakfast club for many years now. You've been online for how long have you been online before? But I'm gonna tell everybody how old you are. - No, no, let me see. I mean, well, there's two different types. I'm old enough to remember that there's two different types of online, right? - The first time. - 'Cause there was the My Spaces. - Oh fuck, I remember that. (laughing) - I like the square people, and I'm upset. - So there was the My Spaces, there was the Black Planets, but those weren't necessarily social media. Like you might be in a forum or a chat room, a chat, I forgot what they used to call them chat rooms or something back then. But yeah, I remember Twitter, I remember what I got on Twitter so early, I didn't even know that people replied to you. I remember when somebody said, "You gotta check your apps." I think it might have been a little doobol or somebody I was talking to, and I'm like, "I don't really like Twitter, man." I used to be on there, like you used to be on there talking to yourself, and he was like, "What do you mean you be on there talking to yourself?" I'm like, "I post stuff, but it's just there." And he was like, "Man, you gotta check your apps." I'm like the apps, and then that's when you clicked on your apps and you started seeing everybody, and you were like, "Oh!" - But I wish I never knew that existed. - Yeah, I feel about it some days. - I stopped going on Twitter in 2018, 2019, but we got on Twitter and like, "Oh, seven? Oh, eight maybe?" - Yeah. - Yeah, that place is a little while. - Oh, it's not good for my mental health and no way shit before. But you gotta know that though. So we're all in verbally abusive relationships with our smartphones. If you were at a job and you had a boss talking to you like that, I don't think you would stick around in that relationship. So why do we do that with social media? And I'm not forget just the block features and the unfollowing folks. I rather not even go over there. Like, you know, I'm a stern believer in if somebody be like, "Hey man, why don't you come over to the house "so we having this party, we having a cookout." Who are all over there? If they say the wrong people and the wrong energy, you not going. So why do we take our monkey asses over to social media, especially Twitter? Like I don't wanna be, I don't have no place, I have no desire to be over there. - That's really smart, a little social cleanse. - I have not been on this since 2018. - What about, like, you've probably changed a lot since 2018. Like I imagine 15 years online, are there some things that you have said before, like back in the day, you're like, this is true, I believe it with all of my being, and now fuck I was wrong. - I remember talking to Mark and Gladwell one time, and Mark and Gladwell said to me, you know, there's a lot of things that I wrote in books like, The Outliers, so I don't necessarily believe anymore. - Interesting. - And I was like, oh my God, like that, that, that, that kind of threw me for a loop, but then I had to think to myself, like, just because he wrote it in that book, and he has maybe evolved and, you know, learned a lot more information and it's taking him someplace else, doesn't mean that somebody else isn't gonna pick up that book right now, and it's gonna meet them where they are. - Do you think about your books that way? Like, when I was going back through, and I hadn't read, one, I didn't realize you had multiple books. And so when I, I know, when I went back and I was reading, so I had read Black Privilege, and then when I went through, and I was looking at, get honest or die, lion? - Yep, that's my last one, what third one? - I didn't realize that you had such a focus on mental health. And I don't know why. I guess I had seen breakfast club, and I thought of your persona a lot there, but I like asking you these questions, because when I think about our, like the person who's listening here, I'm always thinking about them, maybe a little less than the guest. Like, what does Charlemagne have? That I feel like every human listening, is just gonna like, it's gonna blow their mind this week, and it's gonna help their life somehow. And that's kind of how I think about you. Like you have this amazing career, but it's mostly like, what do you got that they need? You know? And when I think about your career in particular, there's a couple ways I wanna go with it that I think could be really helpful with people. One, conversations, we're having less of them. You have them deeply. And even with people you don't, well, I don't know if you don't like them or not, but maybe you don't agree with everything. Maybe you sometimes don't like them. And I guess one of the questions I have for you is like, what do you do when you have a conversation with somebody you don't like or agree with? You just agree to disagree. Like I don't think, I don't know there's too many people I've had conversations with who I don't like, 'cause I don't know them personally, not to like them. - Too high. - Yeah, I may not like their ideologies, I may not like, you know, some of their worldviews, but I don't know them personally to not like them. And I mean, that's what conversation is for. And just because you have a conversation with a person doesn't mean you go end up liking them at the end of the conversation, but I feel like as human beings, we should respect each other enough to discuss. And even if we discuss and debate and argue and we might even get to yelling in a interview, but I think that's just what happens when you are having a real, healthy, honest conversation with somebody. So I don't, I think this is our job. Like I'm a radio personality. I'm a podcast person, I'm a media personality, right? Just like you're a media personality. If I choose to invite you into my space and have a conversation with you, it is ridiculous to just then say, you know what, I'm gonna slam dunk on this for you. I mean, fighting this person in my space, just to slam dunk on them. If you get dunked on in the midst of the conversation, that's different, but I invited you for a conversation. So have the conversation and you know, see where it goes. - Do you get a lot of comments online? Like why are you having this person all the time? - All the time. - All the time. What do you say to the people who won't have a conversation? With somebody. Like what if, what are somebody's listening right now? And this happens around the holidays, probably good time in for it. They're like, I'm not fucking going home 'cause Aunt Becky loves insert one political party. And I don't wanna talk to her. - I think that's the most ridiculous thing in the world. And the reason I think that's the most ridiculous thing in the world because you know, politics are very bleeding, right? And the next few years, hopefully, right? If we still have free and fair elections, there'll be electing, you know, somebody else. And there'll be a lot of damage done because of the current administration. But the way people felt will kind of be a thing of the past, right? Maybe, you know, I mean, you know, my Andrew said that, you know, people don't forget what you did. They'll forget what you said. They'll never forget how you made them feel. So maybe people will forget about it. But man, I've been alive long enough to have seen how this goes, you know, before. And I mean, this is, that's your family member. Don't blame who's in the White House on you not wanting to talk to your family member. You never liked this person to begin with. Just like that out. 'Cause if you could just, if you could just cut me off or cut somebody off based on who they voted for, you never really liked that person. This goes back to what we were saying about time. Don't blame time for you not wanting to do something. You don't like this individual. You never really did. And now you feel like you got a valid excuse to not talk to that person anymore. And I feel like, you know, when it comes to just us as media personalities, listen, I've seen media personalities, you know, say, I don't know why, you know, Shalameen talks to these kind of people, a wide and breadth of the club talk to these kind of people. They don't say that to anybody else but us. Like, they don't say that to Jake Tapper, right? Historically, they didn't say that to people like, you know, Diane Sawyer, Barbara Walters, Open Winfrey, I grew up in the era of watching Donahue have the grand wizard of the KKK on, right? And I grew up in the era of, you know, Donahue would host, it's us, not just Donahue, everybody would talk to people that they didn't necessarily agree with, right? Nobody said anything back then. So why is it such a thing now? And I would tell all of these media personalities, you know, and you say things like, man, I would have never done that. That's why you're not me. That's just the reality of the situation. So don't ask yourself why you don't get the things that I get, you know, per se because you don't do the things that I do. I have no problem sitting down having conversations with people that I may not agree with. But that's just because of the great personalities that I saw before me. They were doing the same thing. I used to, man, they used to do specials, but they would go talk to Charles Manson while he was in prison. They talked to Jeffrey Dahmer. He ate people like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're not gonna talk to somebody just because they, they got a different public. Public, public, that's great. That is, that's crazy to me. I'm also old enough to remember when people hated guys like George W. Bush. Now everybody loves George, but they love watching George Bush with Michelle Obama. And it's always so cute, such a great relationship. I remember when y'all were calling George Bush the Antichrist. - Sure, well, or if you go back to history, Democrats were actually Republicans. Republicans were actually Democrats. Like the whole party, they've changed back and forth. - They had different ideologies at the time, no? - Totally. - But it's kind of wild to see, you know, what used to be a Democrat today was a Republican at one point. And same and vice versa. It's like we put these hard lines on them. But it's a really interesting point because you're right. I actually went to journalism school. I always wanted to be a journalist. I ended up in business and finance for all these other reasons. I guess we've come back. But I used to love Walter Cronkite for that reason. - Yeah, I mean, you did with the time where you would want to get that interview. Like, yo, we saw a freaking, uh, Barbara Walters went and spoke to Fidel Castro. Like, those were the type of things that we constantly saw the greats do. So who are we to be like, Nah, I'm not gonna do that. Nah, that's, that's, that's, so if not you, who? - Yeah. - And why not talk to that person and ask that person the questions that you know the world may want to know? - Yeah, I wanna talk a little bit about like the business side for a second. One, congratulations, amazing news recently on a huge deal you did. It's so cool. - Thank you, resigned with I Heart, I Heart Media. - Yeah, and I think like, not even to get into details on that but like, it's really cool to see somebody do an incredible deal and do a resigning and have it go really public and have it be in this new age of media, you know, which is I think typically deals like that. You had to be with CNN or CMBC or some huge network and now this is kind of you, you know, this is, you could move breakfast, club, charlamei and anywhere and you're the network now. So it's really cool to see, congratulations. - Yeah, and I mean even, it's smooth to I Heart, you know, I've been with I Heart for 15 years, you know, started off as a talent, you know, then became a partner when I created the Black Effect podcast network, which is, you know, by far the largest podcast network, you know, for Black podcast, I think right now we got like 50 to 60 podcasts where, but you know, we wanted to create a space that was specifically for Black podcasts because that didn't exist. Like, you know, I'm the type of person, I like to look around the marketplace and you know, see what's missing from the marketplace and that was something that was missing to me. I loved what Bill Simmons was doing with the ringer. You know, I loved, you know, watching what they were doing with smart list. I watched, you know, loved watching what they were doing with Gimlet, but I saw a lot of these Black creators who were doing two things, right? They were putting their podcast out, but it was like video first. So their videos were getting like tremendous views, but the audio wasn't necessarily reflecting that. - Yeah, that's hard to do. - I know that the money is in the audio. So I was like, man, you know, what if we created this network, you know, got these individuals who already have these, you know, podcasts, put us, you know, all under one umbrella and use I Heart Sales team to really, really pump their audio 'cause I heart is the biggest, you know, conglomerate when it comes to the audio. Nobody does audio better than I Heart. I'm not saying that because I work with them. I'm saying that because it's the truth, right? So radio, podcasting, nobody does audio better than I Heart. And man, if I could show you all the data of some of these podcasts who had these big video numbers, but the audio numbers weren't necessarily matching the video and how when they partnered with Black Effect and I Heart, how we were able to get those audio numbers booming to the point where we're at like 11 million, 12 million audio downloads a month. And that makes, you know, Black, Black Effect, you know, one of the biggest podcasts networks out there. Like that's very rare to be, you know, having network getting 11 million, 12 million audio downloads a month and, you know, things like that is what makes you a lot more valuable to, you know, whatever company you're with. - What's interesting, I kind of want to talk about that for a second. I don't know about you, but I had a long period and I'm thinking through it right now. But where I'm Latina on a check and it always bothered me when somebody would reach out to me and say like, "Hey, we want to talk to you, you're a female CEO. "We'd love to have a female CEO come speak about X-Wisee." Or like, "You're Latina CEO, come speak." And I kind of would be like, one, if it was female CEO, I'd be like, I don't know why my vagina has to do with it. Like I just, I'm just in charge of this business and I happen to have that anatomy, you know? And I remember I did write that in one email and then one of my executives was like, maybe we could not do that. But I kind of like took a personal, how do they chip on my shoulder? Maybe I have less than one now, but I'm curious for you. Like when people say like, "Sharliman, black CEO, come speak." Like, are you like, yeah, fuck yeah, 'cause I represent all these people? Or are you like, who cares? I'm a CEO, I just happen to be black. Like how do you think about that? - That's a great question. I don't, when I pull up the chick for lay, it don't bother me that, you know, they specialize in chicken sandwiches. I'm pulling up the chick for lay, 'cause they specialize in chicken sandwiches, you know? If I wanna go to, you know, pizza, if I want pizza that night, I'm not gonna go to a burger spot, you know what I'm saying? So it's just like for me, that don't bother me, 'cause we are unicorns, because we can't sit here and act like we don't understand the country that we live in. We live in the country called America. America is, you know, a country that was founded on white supremacy. Like, you know, this is called it what it is, right? So like that is what people think of when they think of America. That's what they've always presented to us, right? Like a white man. So I don't have a problem being a quote-on-quote unicorn in this space. If you are a, you know, woman CEO who's done great things, hey, sadly, we live in a country that doesn't think women can do amazing things. Like this is a country that, you know, just gave women the right to vote in our lifetime, right? So you know how they kind of already perceive women. So when they look at you as a woman CEO, they're looking at you like, damn, I can't believe she did all. I can't believe she got that done. Why? Because you're a woman. Same thing with a black person. Why? I can't believe that a black person could achieve those kind of things because of all of the things that this country has thrown at us historically. So things like that do not bother me. If you want me to come out here and be the, you know, the bearded woman at the circus, I don't have no problem with that. 'Cause I feel like, you know, by the time I sit down with you and have a conversation, you're gonna say to yourself and understand why that person is in the position that they're in. - Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think culture and racer, I don't think about it as much now 'cause I'm like a little bit of a spreadsheet nerd, but you know, as I've gotten on the internet more and then people of course, they notice you. Like, yeah, he's black. Yeah, she's a chick. Like, okay, yeah, I guess that's part of the equation. - Yeah, you've been dating obvious. - Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm like, all right. But then I realized, man, actually, there was a bunch of stuff when I was growing up that we didn't actually do, that I think hurt us monetarily and hurt and by us, I guess I mean women or Latinos in this instance. Like, when I was growing up, you know how they say, you don't talk about sex, religion, politics. - Politics, yeah. - In, for Latinos, religion's cool. Jesus is all around. Like, everybody could talk about Jesus, but you don't talk about sex, you don't talk about politics, you don't talk about money. Like, money's like, nobody talks about that as a Latino. And I think for that reason, it was harder for me to make money, like growing up, you know. Like, because I was like, no, we don't talk about it, it's not good, it's private. Rich people kind of suck 'cause you had to be bad to get it. And so I had all these ingrained narratives. I'm curious, and like, in black culture, is it similar at all? Can you talk about money in the same way? Are there like things that hold black people back monetarily that you're like, why the fuck do we do that? Don't do that anymore. - You know, that's a great question. I don't like to answer questions on behalf of the whole black race, because black people are not, you know, monolithic. And, you know, there's a lot of black people who don't like me. So I don't want them to think that I'm speaking. I'm speaking for them. But from my perspective, yeah, a lot of conversations, like financial literacy did not happen, you know, in the black community, like, at least in my, I don't want to say in the black community, at least in my circumference. Like, you know, my father was definitely an entrepreneur, right? Like, my father, you know, he owned the fish market when I was young. So I would be there hanging out, you know, working. My father also did construction. So he was an entrepreneur, even though he did work for a construction company for a period of time. But the most part, you know, all the money he made was, you know, doing things independently. So that was always kind of my mindset, but nobody taught me about, you know, taxes and, you know, you know, high yield savings accounts and stocks. Like I didn't learn about any of that stuff. So like I did in my late 30s, you know, early 40s. I think to not talking about money thing is interesting, though, because of course, none of us wanted to be broke, right? That's what led, you know, you know, guys like me to start selling dope, right? Because, you know, you don't want to be broke. But money was never my motivation. Mm-hmm. Ever. A lot of the times, even when I started, you know, selling dope, I was just doing that because the people around me were doing it and, you know, you would get clown for being broke. But I never needed money to really get anything that y'all got. Like a lot of times these guys are, you know, trying to get money to impress women and things like that. I was, I wasn't the best looking, but I could hold a really good conversation. I could make you laugh like they're, you know, you know, you know what I mean? There was a lot, the girls that y'all was, you know, trying to get, I was getting just being my natural broke self, right? So it's like, I have money was never my motivation. What was my motivation was wanting to realize my full potential as a person on this planet. Even when you were younger, you know what I was scared about? Being broke or not having money, that was a part of your equation. Were you religious when you were young? Yeah, I grew up, my mother was a joeva witness. My mother was a joeva witness. My grandmother was a Baptist. My father was a joeva witness, too, till he got this fellowship. And then he, you know, he started studying Islam. So I had, I was getting hit from all different angles. I had my grandmother who was a Baptist. So he, my father who was studying Islam. So I was reading watchtowers, the wakes, the autobiography of Malcolm X. Like I was, I had it all. But there was different things that motivated me to want to be successful. Like when I heard Biggie Small say, being broke at 30, give a brother to chills. Like right? I went, TLC made no scrubs. I don't want no scrub. But scrub is a guy sitting in his best friend's ride, you know, on the passenger side, trying to highlight me. All of the, I went outcast and goodie mob made, I want to get up, you need to get up, get out and get something. Don't let the days of your life pass. You need to get up, get out and get something. You know, don't spend all your days getting high 'cause you and I gotta do for you and I. When you hear that, that ain't necessarily about money. That's just about brother. You know, get up and do something with your life, figure it out. And even back then, man, I had no problem. I thought about going in the military. You know, there was a time I wanted to work at UPS 'cause you know, I had an uncle who worked at UPS, like, and the same thing with the military. I had a, you know, my mother's first cousin, his thing was Bruce. He was in the military. So I was just looking at all of these different things that could potentially get me off this dirt road in most corner of South Carolina. It wasn't necessarily always entertainment. Like, I had no problem living what people call the so-called American dream. Like, you just figure out something, you know, that can make you some money to be able to afford a nice place to stay, have some food on the table. And if you wanna have a family one day, you can do that. But, you know, it wasn't necessarily, I wanna be rich, I wanna be famous, I wanna be this, you know, multi-millionaire, you know, when I got, it wasn't necessarily that. Like, I just wanted to not waste the life that God gave me on this planet. - Yeah, that's true. You, I've talked a lot about God on your podcast in your books here. What is your relationship with God? And like, how do you use that in your day today? - Man, I'm only sitting here because of God, you know, whatever you wanna call him, Jehovah, you know, Allah, you know, Jesus Christ, like I'm literally in this position that I'm in right now because from the time that I can remember from day one, there was a higher power, you know, guiding me. I know we talk about these, we talk about having like, praying grandmothers and, you know, praying mothers, I really, really had that. Like I had, I was a kid going to field service every Saturday morning, right? So, you know, as long as I can remember, I've been a praying person and not just, you know, praying, like praying and asking God for guidance and direction and like literally feeling that presence of a higher power with me, that higher power literally guiding me and directing me and telling me to go do X, Y and Z. Go do this, go do that, like literally. And, you know, it was the times where I didn't listen to that voice the way I should have, you know, that caused, you know, so-called negative things that happened to me. And the reason I say so-called negative things, because I feel like everything is just a part of, everything is just a part of this process called life, right? The so-called good, the so-called bad, everything that happens to you while we're living this thing called life, is just part of the process that led you and I to both be sitting here, you know, in this moment. But I just feel like the whole way through, it's just been God. And I mean, I remember last year, I said, like I said to God, I was praying, meditating, and I said to God, I said, God, I am ready for every single thing you have planned for me on this planet. I said, I wanted all. And I know if people might hear that and they might think, you know, monetary things are just the good things that come with success. No, I want to experience every single thing that God wants me to experience on this planet, because I truly believe that, I truly believe that, you know, things don't happen to you, they happen for you. So I don't care what it is. I take good news, they say, I so called good news the same way I take so called bad news because it's just like, I, well, God, God, plan for me next. Like, you know, even today, you might get some news from a business perspective and you like, hmm, I didn't want that to happen, but God clearly has something else planned. So I'm open for it. So interesting. I have this line. I wasn't, I guess I was raised, I was really raised with a lot of religious influence. It didn't permeate or it didn't negatively at some point. And I felt like I had to break that, it came with sort of agnostic, atheist, then I came back to faith. But there's a line that I always think of by this. She was actually a feminist back in the day, Emma Bombak, and she has this line that I love, which is she says, "When I stand before God at the end of my days, I hope to be able to say I have not one drop left. I used every single thing that you gave me." - Yes. - And every time I'm struggling, I think about that. - Yes. - And I was wondering for you, you're such a man of, you read, you know, multiple books a week and many a month, and you're such a man, like you remember all these quotes, are there quotes that you live by that you like, when your faith is struggling, that you repeat in your head? - Yeah, I got two, and these are the ones that I actually made up, you know, I did with really bad panic attacks, right? I've got a handle on them, you know, in my more recent years, but like when I was young, I did with like these really severe panic attacks, and when I didn't know what they were, when I didn't know that I was having actual panic attacks, I would always repeat this mantra. I would say, "I love Jehovah God in this Son Jesus Christ. I love Jehovah God in this Son Jesus Christ. Fuck Satan, fuck Satan, fuck Satan." So I would say, "I love Jehovah God in this Son Jesus Christ three times, and I would say fuck Satan three times." And the reason I would do that is because, you know, when you read in the Bible in the book of Job, you know, Job was wife kept telling Job, "Hey, cross God and die." Right, "Want you just curse God and die." So I used to always be like, "Why would I curse God?" Like, I'm not gonna have a curse God and die. So let me just curse Satan, 'cause I feel like, "What I now know to be anxiety, this panic attack is him." So I would say, "I love Jehovah God in this Son Jesus Christ, fuck Satan." And, yo, I can't even front it would bring me back to sinner in a real way. I mean, now, when you, you know, I've done a lot more work on myself. So I do meditation and things like that. So I understand mantras, right? Like you understand the mantra when you're counting your beads, when you're meditating, you understand how that can bring you back to sinner. I was doing that back then and didn't even know it. And my other motto that I always say, is I always say, "Yo, keep God first. Stay humble. Keep working." Anything that happens in my life, I say, "Keep God first. Stay humble. Keep working." And I'm glad we're having this conversation because one thing I've realized over the last few weeks, 'cause we're taping this like the first week of January, right? I've watched a lot of people, like when certain things happen, when you just talk about my new deal with I Heart, I've watched a lot of people have conversations about that. And man, it really makes me realize how much people don't believe in God in hard work. - Yeah, that's not true. - Because anytime you get to a certain level of success, they think that you had to get there by some nefarious means. They think that you gotta be in the Illuminati, you know, you bust in and open on the cast and couch. Men and women, by the way. It ain't just women that they think. And ain't just women they think is bustin' and open on the cast and couch. Men and women they think is bustin' and open on the cast and couch. And it just makes me realize how many people don't believe in God in hard work. Because if you believed in God in hard work, you wouldn't look at somebody else and just say, they only got that because they did some bullshit. You would say, man, you know, I've been watchin' that person for decades now. I've been doin' radio for 28 years, like literally 28 years. Even if you don't count South Carolina, if you've been watchin' me from the time I started with Wendy, it's been 20 years. You've been watchin' that person for 20 years. You literally watch that person grow. You watch them evolve. You watch Ups, you watch Downs, you watch them go through fire. You watch all of these different things. But one thing you can't say is that person wasn't consistent and that person wasn't workin' hard. And then when that person, you know, achieved something, you wanna attribute it, you wanna give the devil credit for that? - Yeah. - You're right. You wanna give, well, you don't wanna give God in hard work any credit whatsoever. So what happens when you achieve a tremendous level of success? - Yeah. - Should we just say, oh, that person only got that because of Satan, that person only got that because they were bustin' it open on the Catholic house. I don't even think people understand the narratives they create that will eventually come back and bite them into ass as well. - That's it. - So yes, I give God all praises and I am only here because God has been guiding me all of these years. - It's so true. I remember when a my early mentor said to me, if you hate rich people, then how do you think you're ever gonna be rich? And I never hated it. I'm not really a hateful kind of person. Sometimes I wish. Like I was Sierra was here the other week on a podcast. I was like, what do you do when you have a hater? And she's a woman of faith. She's incredible. I've really come to respect her a lot. And she had such a good line. She's like, I give it up to God, I don't worry about it. But she's like, I'd be keeping receipts though. And she's like, I'd be keeping some names. And I was like, I love that line. Like I remember, I forgive, I don't remember though. But I think what happens with a lot of us is like, isn't it weird how we're we're we're wired from being young? Like sometimes I'll be on a stage and a business thing and I'll say to the audience, blank is the root of all evil. What's the root of all evil? And they'll just respond. Money. When did we learn that? It's not actually that in the Bible. It is the love of money is the root of all evil. But like how are we programmed to think that? And so that's when I start realizing, maybe it's not always their fault. Like the people who hate on you with this I Heart Media deal. I almost, it hurts my heart a little bit. I'm like, I know right where you are. It's that you still think that money is the root of all evil and you've never questioned why that programming is in your brain And you don't know where it came from. Oh, I know. I mean, I know where it came from. I can't think it came from being broke Like when you when you broke you're going to be Discrung to when you're broke you're going to be upset about that and you're going to say things like money is the root of all evil people will say Things to justify why they're not in the position that they want to be in but man I'm beyond I know it's gonna sound crazy. I genuinely truly don't care about Money I care about being happy. I tell folks all the time man. What is success success is You're doing whatever it is that you want to do and it makes you happy Yeah, I know people right now that you know are making tens of millions of dollars and they hate Their jobs are they hate you know what it is that they're doing so is that actually success? I know people who are in South Carolina right now making $75,000 a year a hundred thousand dollars a year But they got a roof over their head. They got food on the table They could take a vacation every now and then when they want to and they are genuinely happy Success should be rooted in happiness not in a Monetary amount of you know like this should just be rooted in are you happy doing what it is that you're doing I am Happy doing what it is that I'm doing. I love what it is that I do I like I love waking up in the morning To go do morning radio This is literally what I used to pray for and what I used to dream about when I was in you know Charlton, South Carolina at Z 93 jams in 1999. I was praying For times like this. I wanted to be the super job. You heard the people I named prior to Tom join as the dog banks Like those were the nationally syndicated radio personalities that a whole generation was listening to I love Being in the middle of one of my unanswered prayers. Oh, so there's no dollar amount that can make me Anymore happier than I already have been I'm in the radio hall of fame I'm literally in the radio hall of fame. I've been successful And happy not because of any money, but because I chose to do something and You know God allowed me The the wherewithal and the skill to navigate my way to that point So one of the things that actually brought me back to you online is you had this post about the trades And you were talking about the trades. Yeah, like plumbing H. Yeah, and blue collar and and I was like oh man, I you know I totally agree and you were basically saying I think in so many words like blue collar jobs Are just as important and powerful as white collar jobs more important there you go So I want to talk about this with you like what do you think about university versus trade school? What do you think about blue collar versus white collar? What would you say to a lot of my audience is a lot of blue collar people? Who are working their way up like give me your take. I think number one you should do whatever it is that you're called to do But I do think that sometimes We love to push people to what we think is the new Trendy thing right right now is AI, you know prior to that it was like, you know Just just social media and the internet in general right like you got to learn how to code and all these different things sure You know, I do agree with that, but man The more things change the more they stay the same you still gonna need somebody to come through this building and Install the plumbing you still gonna need somebody to come through this building and install the HVAC You know this building is going to need you know Electritions right like you're going to need Those people with those skillset so I think what the future should look like is People who decide they want to go to trade school and then using somebody's new technology to make their jobs easier It's the next generation of millionaires and you know Ten millionaires maybe even billionaires are gonna come from people who know how to merge The two the two worlds I was funny. I was having a conversation with one of my guys about this and you know, they were like, why are you? I'll be telling you what to go to trade school, you know, let's trade school those are the black jobs That that Donald Trump was talking about. I'm like those are the jobs that pay green That's not a black job like we are not in this room right now without anybody who understands How to do things with their hands like every single piece of equipment in this room the lighting everything back from my youth earlier was because of a blue collar Worker we can't exist without them. They make the world go around so yeah, I do encourage You know a lot of people to go to trade school because everybody don't necessarily want to go to you know a university and And get a degree like and I don't have a problem with that either some people want to go to trade school and you know Do that for a couple of years and come home and start making money immediately. I got you know friends and family members Back home in South Carolina who've been you know installing age back and you know Doing electrical work for 30 years Aim Mr. Mill aim is a no paycheck. They're not complaining about no recessions nothing they are Making their money lawn care services like there is so many, you know blue collar jobs that People are making six figures on right now and you actually From what I understand you have an endowment or you help with education as well in South Carolina. Yeah, I have a my mother went to South Carolina State University I have an honorary degree from South Carolina State University and I started this endowment fund called the Ford family scholarship and Suta, you know a woman I call my another mother of mine her name is Nicole Brevard. You know she was somebody who Was instrumental in you know me even you know Starting that scholarship fund at South Carolina State University and it is for people who want a major in Communications of course because I'm a media personality English because my mother is an English teacher or anything In the mental health profession and I'm I'm working on something right now I think it's gonna really benefit people as far as like a Trade school is concerned because I want to give people incentive, you know to go to Trade school and a lot of people can't afford trade school either so it's like, you know, let's let's let's help some of those brothers and sisters who want to You know go to trade school as well and I'm just I'm called right now to salute a young lady named Jordan Jordan the welder is her name on Instagram the reason I'm saluting her is because she's like a breakfast club Super listener like she supports us and everything that we do like you know I do the Black Effect podcast festival in Atlanta, you know every year I think we're on our like our third or fourth year and she always comes to it, but she's a welder and I just I just find her fascinating because she lives a great life. She's married, right? And she's she's a welder and she makes a great living like I said she comes to support us Air and everything that we do and she's a welder. So it's like, you know, we don't we don't always have to you know run to Entertainment our athletics, you know to to to live a good life. Oh, in fact There's way more people that are plumbers making a hundred K then podcasters and we need a crazy thing to think about yes And we need the order of magnitude Listen, we need them like I hate man. That's why I always say treat the CEO the same way you treat the custodian Yeah, because the reality is In a lot of ways the custodian is more important or just as important could you could you work in a building that was disgusting You understand what I'm saying. Yeah, you heard me. I was like I heard a bit of noise back back Like you see what I'm saying if you knew that the bathrooms in this building was disgusting You might not ever come here ever again. Yeah, so that's why people like the custodians and stuff are important because they make our lives So much easier so we got to constantly find ways to make their lives easier as well Oh, it's so true like one of my favorite people I opened the book with him is this guy Wayne Hazinga I'm really bummed that he died before I got to meet him, but he was a godless did it. Yeah, he was a garbage man That's how he started he started he was a dropout from college. He went to the military He became a garbage man driving a truck Then he figured out well, maybe I could buy one truck and I could start my little route and that route turned into waste management Which became a multi-billion dollar business and then blockbuster that he started and sold before one sideways and then owned a bunch of Sports teams what garbage dude and so it's like all around us. I think the problem like the lie that we were told is that You have to stay the garbage man when you start as the garbage man It's like yes start cleaning the toilets. That's sick But then how much easier is it to climb the ladder from the guy who did the cleaning to the next wrong to the next run to the X right if you're competent and then on the motherfucker That's right. I'm on board and by the way even if you don't want to do that that's cool to me That's true. I like like you're like there's parking attendants that I look forward to seeing every day Because when I see him they screaming my name my scream name name like some of might be singing songs like you know They might be talking to me about stuff that we was talking about on the air those are the people I like to talk to I don't know what do we know we've been doing Yeah, like I like talking to working class People because yeah, I definitely I still consider myself a working class person I just do a different line of work, but I used to work at Taco Bell. I did tell them marketing I worked at a clothing store me and my now wife used to work at a clothing store in the mall when we was you know teenagers I did all of those things, but you really get to see what's going on in the world when you have conversations with working class people. They're the ones that can help you keep your your boots on the ground. Let's say we got we got one of them listening right now And they get to listen to you and they come to the end of this podcast and you get to send them off Like what are you saying to the person who's on their climb figuring it out? What would be the advice you would give them today? I would think the thought that you would leave them with the first thing I would say to them is thank you I am grateful that you decided to listen to the Cody Sanchez podcast wish all the main to God. Thank you And um, thank you for you know, whatever it is that you're doing every day that makes our lives, you know better and Yeah, I will tell them and the reason I'm saying thank you because I will tell them you know make sure that they have a attitude a gratitude as well Because man when you wake up every day and you are genuinely grateful for where you are like you say God thank you May God, I'm so thankful and grateful to be number one just alive But then number two to be able to do what it is that I'm currently doing You will constantly get blessed with more. I think that is what truly makes an individual happy right when you have true gratitude for Where where you are in life? You know at the moment like you can't wake up every day and hate what it is that you do If you wake up every day and hate what it is that you do Please change what it is that you do like like you you have to like you cannot wake up every day and Hate what it is that you do because you gonna project that negative energy on to everybody like you don't don't be the The garbage man with an attitude right don't be the person working into fast food restaurant with the attitude and saying goes for us Like if I wake up every morning With a negative attitude. I'm gonna get on that radio and I'm gonna project that onto the people and trust me I've been that before I've been in that space where I've been that before and God had to remind me quick I can take this away from you. You do know that right? I got to take this away from you in two seconds So you asked for this you prayed for this. This is what you wanted This is what you worked hard towards how dare you come up here every morning and project what you got going on You know negatively to the people that's one of the reasons I started going in therapy and when I started going in therapy Back in 2016 I would literally come on the radio and tell everybody that I'm going to therapy every Friday at three o'clock I started talking to the people about what it was I was dealing with because I owed that to them They can't turn on the radio and Hit me going off on somebody or hit me Maybe badgering somebody in an interview. I'm like, damn why is this person? Why is he coming like that? It might be entertaining to some some might be like what is up with this dude I started to go do the work on myself because I wasn't happy with what was going on with me internally And so me coming on the radio and expressing that You know the other people and tell people I'm going to therapy and trying to get a handle on my anxiety and about to depression and things like that That became a whole movement of its own and that just started with me being honest with my listeners And not wanting to take for granted the blessing that God that gave me because I know he could take away from take it away from me in a heartbeat And that was 2016 so that was six years in the breakfast club We still here nine years later. I continue to grow. I continue to evolve So clearly, you know, I did something right last thing for you like what are you what should people be following you on this year? I know you're working on a million things, but like where should they be or you like I'm fucking excited Tune into this people. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for that Well the breakfast club is coming in Netflix this year. Yeah, um, so you know, you'll six you open up your TV open TV Yeah, like right now if you you can go to Netflix right now type in breakfast club and you'll see it pop up I think they say the video podcast start on January 26 So you can set your remind us for that and I mean, you know a lot of people are having conversations about You know Netflix and they're saying Netflix is trying to compete with YouTube I don't think Netflix is necessarily trying to compete with YouTube. I just think Netflix is doing what all of these, you know, screaming platforms are doing Let's bring on content that people want to watch and let's just see if we can you know get as many eyeballs over here and have them You know spending their time and attention, you know with us So I just think you know, it's it's dope for the podcast and game Like to see where podcasts and has grown and where it's evolved to where you know a premium, you know network Like Netflix, you know wants to have us on and um man I just hope to do more of that like, you know, I want to like like like sitting here talking to you You have a hit podcast But what else does Cody Sanchez want to do? Cody Sanchez might have a scripted show in mind based off her life or something Cody Sanchez might want to do documentaries Those are the things that I'm thinking about with all of these screaming platforms, you know Netflix has gotten the game in a real way Um, I think Apple should follow suit. I think peacock should follow suit. I think Amazon should follow suit and just tap in with Us right these new media personalities who um, you know have a lot of different content and IP that we can bring to the table So that's one thing, you know breakfast club on Netflix I also have a book in print called black privilege publishing and 2026 is gonna be a huge year for us because we have our senior halls memoir Yeah, which comes out in April. He's he's been one of my entertainment inspirations forever, you know I have four huge entertainment inspirations is Jay-Z Clarence Avon A radio personality named PD Green God bless the dead and I'll send you a haul and so it is I mean, it's like a privilege to be publishing his memoir So that comes out in March I believe but you can pre-order pre-order his book now My man two chains, you know who you should actually have on this podcast because his business mind He is you know a very various suit, you know business man, you know like one of my You know business ventures, which is the crystal franchises that me and my wife have in South Carolina I got into them because of two chains, you know, he has a crystal franchise crystal is a burger spot Oh, yeah, so they serve like you know, they serve like little sliders like so they're like the down south white castle And so yeah, you know, he has a role at crystal and my man little Duval I saw him one day Uh, Duval does this thing in this community called Duval day and I saw him with all these crystal burgers And I'm like am I see crystalline the minute where you get crystal from and you like you know two chains is you know working with them now So I reached out to change and you know my guy technique. That's two chains partner And they plug me right in with my man, you know Jonathan Childs, you know who owns the crystal franchises with me and my wife Ended up doing six of them slew to my guy Billy as well, and so we got two chains book coming out The voice in my head is God that comes out in April My co-host Jess hilarious, you know on the breakfast club. She has a book coming out called tell deaf to we parent It's a co-parenting book That comes out uh this year as well, and we have some other ones that I we haven't announced yet So I can't announce them, but those three we've already announced so you can go pre-order those um wherever you buy let's do it Pre-orders are so important. It's like I don't think people realize like if you like one, you know If you like or send you if they like you if they like Jess like the best thing It's such a gift to do a pre-order because all the publishing nonsense you got to get through so hopefully you guys go buy some of those book Pre-orders are important, but I think that they're a I'm not gonna say they're a tad bit over it. I think the publishing company puts a little too much emphasis on them Yeah, because people buy in the moment, you know people want to buy like right now What I did in New York Times like the edition I agree I had to go through to try to I was like don't buy now wait three seconds only from this spot. It's fucking crazy town Yeah, my second book. I'm not doing anything. I care. I care about selling books more than I care about the list Because the list is all politics. You know that like like I can't believe they let me on there I thought for sure no fucking mainstream millionaire title about boring businesses making money like that's a people list Yeah, but they don't I don't think I'll drop myself crazy worrying about stuff like Seriously because you just don't I don't know how it works like you know It's all politics with you know all of those lists So I just want people to go out there buy the books learn something you know from the books most importantly because all of those different books serve You know different purposes are senior halls memoir is just for anybody who grew up on our scenario and you know wants to See the ins and outs of Hollywood in the 90s and why he made the decisions that he made because what he was knowing was groundbreaking and revolutionary back then So if you ever who you gonna love that book two changes literally the voice in my head is God So it's like a spiritual book that shows you you know why he made the moves that he made you know From child to you know now is an adult and you know just book is about co-parents and it's literally about how her and her You know her first baby's father, you know have Had a healthy co-parenting relationship. So we got a lot of different books for a lot of different people I can't wait to read them absolutely man. The God. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Go. It was amazing. Absolutely We are sitting on a generational wealth creation event if you're here this means you're a builder As we're going through this next three days and I want you to know that the American Dream starts with you guys by our little main street Revolution and then I just want to give you guys permission To take a leap of faith You find you then what I know now. I would probably do big deals It's given us a next-door layer of security that we never would have had I am so excited to introduce you to some ordinary people doing extraordinary things We have to really take the time to make a meaningful connection. It's the fact that there is a lack of connection and the person just wants to be seen heard and understood. [MUSIC PLAYING] Thanks for taking the question. 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