117 - Chris Do’s Origin Story — Part 1

I take things to their extreme logical conclusion. And then it becomes very clear to me what has to happen. So if I am sitting here sobbing like a child, if I give up on my dreams, if I don't get focused more portfolio, I return home, totally defeated, mission unaccomplished, that worked my way into getting a state school. I could be good above average at a place where average people go. And then the rest of my life is written. And that's not a life I want to have. [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to the Future Podcast, a show that explores the interesting overlap between creativity, business, and personal development. I'm Greg Gunn. If you're a regular listener of the show, then you know our format. Chris talks with an interesting guest while carefully poking and prodding them with questions, all in hopes of learning as much about their experience as humanly possible. But today, we're flipping everything on a set. In this two-part series, the roles are reversed. Our guests and future pro-grort member, Emily Hansen, will be interviewing Chris. So think of it like a deep dive into the mind of Mr. Doe, the person, the businessman, and the educator. In part one, we get to hear Chris's origin story about how an introverted refugee became the confident YouTuber that you admire today. It's easy to make assumptions about people, especially when you haven't walked in their shoes. And this episode is probably the closest you can get to wearing Chris's sneakers. Chris shares very personal stories about his family fleeing Saigon, living life as a cultural outsider, and why it's so important to have and to follow your own internal compass. Now, there are some violent moments in his story, so skip ahead if you think that stuff might bother you. And I have to say that, annually, it does a wonderful job guiding this conversation. And Chris is incredibly vulnerable in his responses. So as weird as this is to say, please enjoy our conversation with Chris Doe. Today's podcast is going to be a little different. Usually it's me asking my guests a bunch of different questions, but my friend, Annale, who's been part of pro-group and somebody I've gotten to know over the last year, she really encouraged me to tell more of my story because I'm a very private person. And I generally don't feel like this is a story that people want to know. And it was during one of our live streams, and she really insisted, hey, you had to do this. And, okay, enough excuses. I've told you all to go out of your comfort zone, share your story, but maybe this is one where the shoemakers kids have no shoes. And so with that, Annale, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Chris. Have you been here? Now, for people who don't know who you are, can you introduce yourself, please? Yeah, but you know what? Maybe it's more interesting if you introduce me. I can't. This is not how the show works. You know how the show works. You got to just introduce yourself. Yeah. I'm Annale Hansen, and I'm from Stockholm, Sweden. I'm 46 years old, so I'm not so new in this industry, and I've been working for like over 20 years with marketing, branding, and brand strategy. And yeah, and I'm part of the pro group. And yeah, here I am. Okay, this is beautiful. Thank you very much. That was a rather unusual and conventional introduction. I like it, and I think that might be. Well, I think that might be setting the tone for the conversation we're about to have. And there is not a giant structure or premeditated thing. It really is just about having a conversation with two people. So maybe I can start to ask you, what do you want to know that you think, maybe I haven't done a great job of sharing? Okay, one thing that I'm really curious about is, when I see your website, it's really clear that you care about your mission, because that is the first thing we see. But you're not talking so much about it. So I wanna hear more about the mission and what drives you. - Hey, beautiful. So you don't think we do good job, X-Morgan. - All right, let me see how our process that, okay. So for people who aren't familiar, the futures mission is to teach one billion people how to make a living doing what they love without losing their soul in the process. And this comes from a very personal point of view in that as a creative person who went to one of the finest design in art schools, at least in America, that I learned the craft, I learned the theory, I learned conceptual thinking. But I'm not sure it was because of me or not, that I didn't get a lot of business skills. So I had this false impression that all you needed to succeed in life was to go out into the world and show your portfolio. And that expression, the work will speak for itself was really something I held on to really tightly because of a lot of different reasons. But one of the main reasons is because I'm an introvert. I don't wanna talk about myself. I don't wanna talk about anything. I don't even wanna talk about my work. I would just rather put all my energy into the work. So that the work would speak for me. So then I quickly realized I'm not gonna get any business. I don't have any clients 'cause I don't have any business skills. I don't have any marketing skills. And so this journey of self discovery of learning about business and figuring out that part of it became my entire obsession. 'Cause I felt like at that time, I understood the design parts. So I needed to learn that. And then I was able to achieve some level success where I felt like I wonder how many other people are in this exact same situation as me, not just in the United States, but all over the world. Then it turns out quite a few. So now I've dedicated my life, my purpose, the thing that drives me is to teach as many people as I can before I expire. - Okay, but what, it's still like, I hear what you're saying, but it's like, why is it important for you? Because you do work a lot and you're so passionate about what you do. And there must be a reason why you feel like you can put in so much effort and work. Like, what do you want to accomplish? - Okay, so I think I understand the first part. And then let's see if I can tackle the second part. The first part is this is why, why even do this? Well, part of my story is that I'm a refugee, I'm a first generation immigrant. I was not born in the United States, I was born in Saigon, Vietnam. And my parents had to flee because of communism in 1975, April 30th, 1975. That's the moment when our entire lives had changed very drastically. Coming to America, we didn't have a whole lot. And I was very obsessed with like trying to understand how we can move up the socio-economic ladder. It really was because I would read in magazines and watch on TV shows like, our lifetimes not look like the lives that are being portrayed in these things that I'm staring at. And I wanted to achieve something with myself. And when I ultimately was able to find my creative voice and a career, I got way more than what I had bargained for. In orders of magnitude more, I was content on just living some modest life and having a small business. But I was able to get more. And so I feel like now, this country that's been so great to not just myself and my family, but immigrants from all over the world, and especially from Vietnam, I just feel like there's a debt that I need to pay off. Okay. So that's the motivation, right? I feel like the scales have been so far, lopsided in my favor. I don't know how much I can do to bring balance to it. And I feel like I want to balance that scale. - Yeah, okay, I see. So what do you think would have, like how would your life look like if your parents didn't take that decision that day? And you were still in Vietnam right now. - Yeah. My life would be drastically different. My dad told me that, and I try to tell the story without totally falling apart on you, okay? My dad was in the military, and the communists are not known to treat enemy combatants kindly. My mom would tell me stories about how, as the Democratic Party in Vietnam was being driven to the South, that there were horrible stories of torture and all kinds of horrific things happening. And she had told me a story. about some relatives that were buried, neck deep in the sand, to be tortured and to die that way, with whatever creatures that can find them. And that's just one part. And my dad knew, and he hated communism so much because of the atrocities of things that he had heard about in it, and witnessing his life, that for him, there was no option to stay. There were zero options. And he even told me that on that day, in that window that was collapsing in 24 hours and to get out of the country, he had told me that there were pirates, basically ship captains who were bringing people on their boat, collecting their money, and then taking them out to the sea and just pushing them off into the ocean so they can go back and get more people. Because there was nowhere for them to go. Okay. And so what he told me was, he says, even knowing that that was a high probability, if all the options that were available to him didn't materialize and many of them did not, he would have gladly taken us on that boat because he would choose death over living under communism. Because he also knew that's not a life for him, it's not a life for his kids, and he would probably be tortured and put into camp, which some of my relatives, years or decades later, were released from those prisons, and they're physically, you know, but that takes a toll on your psyche that I don't think you can ever recover from. - Oh my God, what a story. Have you been back to Vietnam? - I haven't. Ironically, for the first time, we had planned a trip to go back this year, booked the tickets, hotel, it was gonna be our family and my parents were gonna go with us and then COVID hit and we had to make this decision. At that point, it wasn't clear yet like how bad this was going to be and we were still weighing our options because I was really looking forward to this trip. - Yeah. - Of course, so here's the thing, we canceled the trip and it turned out like Vietnam is one of the safer places to be, which is what the heck, right? We're thinking to ourselves, third world countries not gonna handle this. And that's probably one of the safer places we could have been but whatever. - But your parents did they go back? - Yeah, they've been back several times. - Yeah. - So okay, so like when you arrived to America, like how did your life look like then? - We arrived in 1975 and we landed in Kansas City, Missouri and the reason why we were there is because that's where our sponsor, host family was. And the way this worked as far as I understand it is there were large communities within the church where Catholic and I'm sure what happened behind the scenes was they're saying like, we need to find host families for these refugees that are also Catholics, that God loving people and we need volunteers to help them integrate into American society. And so what happened was our families got split up into like large chunks, right? Because you just so everybody can understand both my mom and dad have about 10 brothers and sisters each. - Yeah. - And then they have kids. And so one host could not say, okay, I'm gonna take 100 of you because I mean, it's not literally 100 but it's a lot. Okay, and so we were broken up and so someone to Arkansas, someone to Kansas and someone to San Jose. But they all knew like, okay, we need to stay in touch, we need to reconnect. And eventually we all kind of wound up mostly in the same place which was San Jose. But we landed in Kansas, it in Missouri, in a poor part of town. And we lived across the street from our sponsor. - And how old are you? Three, four or three? - Three. - Yeah. - Three. I can totally understand when you say, that you can be a little bit upset when people have assumptions about you and your story that you don't understand how people have it. Like you have been there, like you're there, you know, the first generation. - Yeah. - You have seen everything. - Yeah. - I mean, things like this happen, happens all the time over the world right now. You know? - So I understand the story of people who struggle. - Yeah. - People who have been marginalized. I understand what it's to be poor. I understand what it feels like to be an outsider, to be hated just because you're different. And I've lived with that for a really long time actually. - But how was it when you came to the US? Like were there a lot of people from Vietnam? Like did, was were you the first person from Vietnam people have met? Like, you know, or how many people are there? - Now I'm not saying that there have been zero people from Vietnam in the United States up until that point. I think there were some. - Yeah. - But then all of a sudden, I'm not sure about this number. I think 200,000 people were able to escape with the help of the US government. - A quick note here. According to Wikipedia, over 130,000 Vietnamese refugees were evacuated. - Someone to Australia, someone to America and someone to Canada, but a lot of us went to America. And I think for a lot of small town, mostly white suburban communities, maybe this is the first time seeing an Asian person, most definitely the first time seeing a person from Vietnam. And so when I was growing up, people had lumped us all together. Like if you looked Asian, you're Chinese. That was just assumption. Didn't matter if you're Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Laosian, Filipino, you're just Chinese. - Yeah. And you know what? I haven't told you that, but I do have two siblings that are from South Korea. Like, but of course they're not my siblings. Like that, but they are. And they, but they're adopted. And adopted could still have, you know, a lot of struggles when they come to a new country. So I can just, you know, imagine how it must be. Like, so how were you when you were like a little child and like, how was your personality? Were you a shy or? - Yeah. I'm still shy. So it's not drawing a big distinction between childhood and adulthood. Luckily I have tools to cope and deal with interaction and social gatherings. But as a child, it's very quiet and sure of myself. My older brother is built differently than me. One day when you meet him, you'll see like he has broader shoulders. And he's smarter than I am. And I'm not talking about like, subjectively speaking, for a point of contrast, my older brother is a four plus point, like four plus point of GPA student, right? - Okay. - He goes to UC San Diego, he gets his master's degree from Stanford. He's in startups that get funded and then go public. That's my older brother. And he's physically just bigger, like bigger hands, bigger bones, just bigger. And then my younger brother, for the long time was just the cute son in the family. And he got all the attention because he has big round eyes and curly hair. And he just got that. And here I am in the middle and the middle child syndrome is not helping my introversion here at all, right? - Yeah. - And I'm skinny, like I'm relatively smart, but not as smart as my older brother. And I don't have the first son status 'cause he's the oldest son from the oldest son, kind of thing. So I was struggling for most of my teenage years up into that point. Like, who am I? How do I fit in this? And I can't measure up to my older brother. - Yeah. - I'm not as cute as my younger brother. I don't tell you a funny story here. Yeah. I was looking at old photos, right? My mom, thankfully, had tons of photos from Vietnam, from Kansas, from wherever we were. They thankfully took a lot of pictures. And I would always look at the photos. And I would say, which ones me? And it's always a good kid, that was me. I was like, no, I'm that one, mom. - No. - I'm that one, right there. And she goes, no, that's your brother. I'm like, shoot. You know, like, I have my little squinty eyes in crooked smile and like the weird dimples in places. And now we start like the cuter one should have been me, but he wasn't. And I just have to deal with that. - This is so strange because when people see you today, I just think they see like this super successful, you know, person who knows it all, you know, with really good self-confident. I almost, I think I totally like you transforming into this extrovert, you know? - So it's a little bit strange to hear you talk about yourself like this because you often have this super, you know, self-confident. So when did this change? When did you transform into this Christo we know about? - And my life story is about contrast. And so it's actually very easy for me to pinpoint moments in my life when things changed. - Can you tell me about one? - They're stages, right? When I found graphic design as a thing that I could do and as a career, just the idea of it, that was the beginning of that change. It wasn't transformative in that moment, but for the first time in my life, I got clarity on the kind of person I could become in the things that I could do. And that happened when I was 17, 18 years old as a senior in high school. Okay, so that started me on this path and then when I got into art center and Found people just like me Yeah, art nerds and weirdos and introverts and we all love design Yeah, and I found that without a ton of effort I was Better than most people Yeah, and that gave me all kinds of confidence because for the first time in my life I found something that I could do that I have a natural proclivity for that I'm good at and people seem to acknowledge that like my teachers and my friends And I found that almost immediately, but I wasn't sure So I would play this very cruel game as my wife describes later. I Asked everybody that would be willing to show me the portfolio Okay, because I was told that no matter how good you think you are there are a ton of people there that are good As good as you or even better than you at the school So I had this assumption because I had seen the portfolio of one of the one of the art centers graduates His name is Luis Fitch. Okay. I looked at his work because he came by our college and showed us his work I was blown away. Yeah, it was so so good So the narrative in my mind was and he said this I'm just one of many and I think he was just being falsely humble at that point Yeah And he's shown this showed us this work and was the best portfolio I've ever seen in my life I don't think everybody there it's gonna be like that So of course when I get into school as soon as I make a few friends I ask people hey Can I see your portfolio and they're like really proud they're like yeah And they don't even ask me to see mine so it's cool right so I just get to see their work and they would you know Those those vinyl zipper bags and yeah, yeah, they would unzip them and lay them out in the table with the Astage sheets and all that stuff and you flip through them yeah, and they're mostly compositional exercises Life drawing color studies and a little bit of design And in my mind I was looking at this and I think this is so rudimentary This is so basic. I can't even believe you got into the school Because everything in my portfolio Was photographed it was laminated it was all about design and packaging Menu design editorial layouts shopping bags none none of these foundational figure drawing none of that Yeah, okay Like I thought I had a real portfolio, but and then I looked at their work. I'm like these are art exercises man Yeah, and you got into school. So one portfolio after the other it started to confirm something in me. It's like oh I got a scholarship for a reason Yeah, they have to pay They paid for a lot of different reasons. I mean I got a scholarship because The portfolio that I presented I think Was actually in alignment with the major that I was studying and two I had financial needs So those two things put together allowed me to get a scholarship But I wasn't sure so I needed to know and there's not that many times in life where you have these kind of questions where Am I just the average bear am I worse than everybody? Am I better than everybody else? Where you can actually get confirmation Yeah, when did you get so competitive like was it what were you really competitive or did you just want to show Like you know your parents or yourself or like why was it so important to have that To compare yourself others. I'm a super competitive person. I think you know that and I don't think that just happened overnight So when we're playing video games as a as a kid. I wanted to be better We would go to the arcade and have very fond memories of the arcade and for young people There used to be these places inside the mall where you can go and you would you would bring a pocket full of quarters And then you would put them in there and you would play and the goal was to play as long as possible because I don't have a lot of money And so if you can hold your own and and people would enter into the like there's a game I think it's called karate or kung fu or whatever and you'd battle other people And if you can hold that for a couple of games you're doing pretty good. Mm-hmm. It's always competitive that way I was you know, even playing hide and seek. I didn't want to get caught I wanted to win So it just translated into something I was actually good at because I tried my hand at sports terrible Yeah, I'm not gonna win that game So that when I finally found design of course I'm competitive. I want to be the best Yeah, but what happened when you won like did you get any did people you know compliment you or like what was the drive to to win all the time you mean in games Yeah, but or in school like where they're from you Um, I I don't know because well okay, well when you play a game I try to be a gracious winner. I'm not a Horrible person. I don't want people to think that like when I win. I don't like well you suck you you know don't get out of here I'm not like that. It's just a personal Just gratification. I want to just prove something to myself Okay, but that's what I wanted to hear like it's it for yourself Yeah, because I've been in that situation that and I became kind of Competitive because I had a parent who are really competitive. So that's why I wanted to ask you Yeah, my parents are not competitive Actually, my dad is very conservative and He's a very quiet human being he has a quiet confidence. He's not out there trying to like tell people This is what I've done not at all and so when I so when I it's I ask people to see their portfolios Many of them never even asked me to show them mine. So I didn't even bother. I don't have anything to prove to them And if people ask out of reciprocity, I would show them Right, so I just I'm just curious. I wanted to know where I stood in the game of design And so when when I was performing at the top of my class, I would say top two three students of my class Not not number one, but just top three. Mm-hmm. I felt pretty good I wasn't calling my mom like mom you won't believe I'm the you know in the top percentage of my class I didn't it didn't matter to me. Mm-hmm. It didn't matter to me that other people thought that or not It's just I started to know and it's like Okay, let's keep building on this and I was ultra competitive because What I play a game with myself The game was can you be the best person in this class? In every single class It's really interesting how you like how how you actually got that It's kind of a self-confident right don't that you didn't need that confirmation from somebody else Yeah, I know I talk about this a lot which is you need to have your own internal compass like right and wrong Yeah And we talk about the moral compass and there's ethics And then there's design there's all kinds of things and you need to be clear So what what I would do is I'd walk around their room And I will look at the work and I would know like yeah, you did it this week or no That person killed you And it is a horrible feeling in my mind and when when this teacher said it they were only confirming what I already knew to be true Okay, and that's a big difference right so some people would come to class Yeah, present their work and think this is great Actually most students thought that and so when the teachers said there was terrible They created some kind of Fracture inside their mind this gizmo between what they thought they were and what they really were Was unbearable for them so they would leave the room and cry or they would cry right on the spot Yeah, and I was in there thinking This is uncomfortable for all of us, but you must have known this sucked before you came here You must have known Right or maybe you were like unsure like you weren't like when I did work and I wasn't sure I knew I wasn't sure and so the teacher's gonna say This was actually really good in these these are the parts I like or this was terrible. I'm like, yeah It could have gone 50-50 But I didn't go into class thinking that's it nailed it And then them to turn my world upside down Yeah, so we talk about this lot, Emily Which is to have this objective lens to be the witness to your own life and your thoughts Yeah, I already developed this pre-art center Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back with more from Chris You know what smart enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook Meet factor your loophole in the laws of meal time Chef crafted meals delivered with a tap ready in just two minutes You know what's even smarter treating yourself without cheating your goals Factor is dietician approved chef prepared and you played it pretty smart, huh Refresh your routine and eat smart with factor learn more at factor meals calm Marketing is hard But I'll tell you a little secret it doesn't have to be let me point something out You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great you love the host you seek it out and download it You listen to it while driving working out cooking even going to the bathroom Podcasts are a pretty close companion and this is a podcast ad did I get your attention You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Lib Sin ads choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements Or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Lib Sin ads Go to Lib Sin ads.com. That's L.I.B.S.Y.N ads.com today Marketing is hard But I'll tell you a little secret it doesn't have to be let me point something out You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great you love the host you seek it out and download it You listen to it while driving working out cooking even going to the bathroom podcasts are a pretty close companion And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Lib Sin ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one. Across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Lib Sin ads. Go to LibSynads.com. That's L-I-B-S-Y-N. Ads.com today. Welcome back to our conversation with Christel. When we go back to that moment, did you still feel like this outsider? No. I was feeling like I'm on the inside now. There was still a little sense, OK? Because the way I describe it is this. Art school like this is broken up into many groups of people. Most of it is the affluent. Like there's levels of wealth there. And there's a joke, right? The joke goes something like this. And I heard the teacher say this, how do you know you're going to a public school versus a private school? Well, the nice cars are in the teachers lot. That's the public school. The nice cars are in the student lot. That's the private school. It was very much true. So I was driving a Nissan 200 SX, which was a hand-me-down car from my brother, who bought the car used and had a slipped timing belt. So sometimes when you drive around the corner, it starts to whine. So you can hear me coming around the corner. It's super embarrassing, right? It's like-- It's like, there comes Chris. And my brother, he had put a little love in his car, and he put up tinted windows, but he did it himself. And of course, he didn't do it right. So it was bubbling. So I just want to be very clear with everybody like what's going on. So I'm driving a second hand used car. It was getting me to and from home in school. While some of my friends were driving beamer, so Mercedes and Porsche's and things like that. I'm like, dang. So there is that class in terms of wealth. And I was not at the bottom, but I was pretty close to it. I only knew a handful of people who were poor than me. One of my friends, Jorge, he's from Tijuana. And he was just basically on his own. Oh. Whereas my parents were able to pay some of the tuition, and the rest was done in loans and scholarships. So there was that part. And then you could tell the high society people. Not only do they drive fancy cars, they dress differently. Yeah. Everything they have is different. And I'm a bit of a-- I don't want to say a scrub, but I'm just like-- sometimes I shower, sometimes I don't. I wear clothes mostly out of utility and what I can afford. So oftentimes, this is my hip hop day. I'd wear this burgundy color trench coat and made of denim. Yeah, yeah. He was my doc with my Doc Marns. And I wore that mostly because I could sleep in it. Oh my-- Sleep in it? Yeah, I could sleep in it because-- What? Yeah, because at school, I would work all day in night at school. And you went to bed in your clothes and just went off? Literally. I slept on the table. Oh my god. So I would go into a classroom where I thought, there's not going to be a lot of noise or distraction. I'd work there to three in the morning. And a class was at eight or nine. And then I would just sleep there. And then I would go to the bathroom in the morning to brush my teeth and wash my face. And that was it. So I literally slept in my clothes on top of these hard wood tables. And that was my life. But OK. But I mean, it doesn't sound like a lie. Like to me, more than going to school. Like how are your social skills? Like, did you interact with people at all? I did interact with people. But I made a lot of conscientious decisions to not participate in anything that I and see as productive or helping me to grow. I had this very real feeling in my heart and my mind that I have one shot to make it. A lot of these people, they're going to have a job that somebody's going to hand them a wealthy relative that's going to hire them. Or their network was so strong. I didn't have that. And I knew this is it. And I didn't even know, to be honest, maybe something would happen. Maybe I could kick that. I don't know. So I was not looking at, like, there's tomorrow. There's only today. So I had friends. And one of them I married. But I would just talk to them. And then they would say, hey, do you want to go to this party or hang out? And I said, no, you guys go do that. I'm going to go to the library. I'm going to say in the computer lab, this is where I'll be. And I did this for the first two years. I didn't date anybody. I was like living this life of celibacy. I was a design monk, mostly because I had just a prior to getting into art center. I had just gotten out of a really bad relationship. It was toxic for years. And finally, I just couldn't handle anymore. It's just so much heartache that I said, you know what? I'm done with girls for a while. I'm not saying I'm not attracted to girls. But I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to focus on this typography. Yeah. And wasn't that break out? Like another transformative moment for you in your life? It was. It was. I mean, like I said, I had arrived already at school a certain way. And school just helped me to resolve a few things. But this breakup, this girlfriend that I had was the first person I ever fell in love with that I dated for years in high school. And we had a really tight but toxic relationship. It was not built up of honesty. There was a lot of manipulation going on. She was a lot-- even though we're the same age, she was a lot more mentally mature than I was. And she had many suitors, right? And she controlled. She controlled me and made me, basically, just looking for those little scraps of validation or affection. And it was rough. And she played that game really well. And my friends were like, what are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing? Why would you do that? Like I literally would get on a bus because I didn't have a car in high school. I would get on a bus. And I think it took two bus stops or two-- not two bus stops to a transfer. I had to take two different buses on two different lines to go see her. And sometimes I'd go see her because she's like, I need help in packing. And that's all we would do. I'd just come there and just be manual labor to help her. And then I'd get back on the bus and go home. And that's how I spent my weekends. But there's a reason why you did it. I loved her. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I wanted to show and to prove to her and to her parents that I'm a good kid, that I'm worthy of being a part of this family. And they were wealthy. They were actually very wealthy. Both her parents drove Mercedes and they owned multiple supermarkets. And so it's kind of funny because it's like one of those teenage romance movies that you see where the boys nerd and this poor person and this girl that he falls in love with is wealthy comes from different society. And it was kind of-- I'm not saying we were poor at this point, but like I said, there's just different class. So we would go to a place like Angus Steakhouse or something like that. And she would say, you order the prime rib. And then she adds the extras, like the mushrooms. And I'm like, my parents are not. We've never eaten here. We just don't go to these kind of places to steakhouse. And then so I'm getting this whole world of education from her. And we would go to the Boulangerie. And she would order this kind of bread with a pesto. And she's like, I'm very specific. It must be this always. And she made it very clear to me what she wanted in life and told me, go get it. That was our relationship. So what happened? What happened because we were into this transformative moment in your life. And you said you had a few of them. Yeah. Like what happened after that? Well, OK. So years of dating are just years of being tortured and just craving some semblance of a normal relationship. I was living in San Diego with my older brother in La Jolla. And I was trying to keep my portfolio together so I can go to art school. And in one of these conversations I had with her, she had in the past told me to give her my credit card so that she can buy the stress. And she had told me, yeah, she had told me that it was alone. I'm like, great because it's not even my credit card. My older brother got me a credit card because he saw that I was hustling those starting to do business. And he's like, you need to establish credit. You need to pay these things off. And I had a job, but I didn't make that much money. So I'm like, OK, you promise to pay me back because I don't have this kind of money. And she uses the credit card to buy a dress. And then I'm like, can you pay me back? And she has money. She just doesn't want to pay me back. And it created a whole situation for me. And so put a pause on that. So now I'm living in San Diego. And we have a code, for example, she wasn't supposedly allowed to have calls from boys, especially at a certain time, proper family and all. So we have code. I would call and hang up. And then she would know it's me. And she would take the credit card. call. She didn't accept it so that she didn't get in trouble with her parents. So I think on one night it's like eight o'clock. I think it's a Thursday or Friday. I call, hang up. I wait. I call again. Her mom picks up. So I hang up. I wait another 20 minutes. I call hang up. I call again. Her mom picks up. And I'm like, oh my god, it's a Thursday or Friday night. It's pretty late. I want to tell you I only did this twice, but maybe I did it three times. I don't know. And so now I'm starting to feel horrible. I'm like, where would she be? Yeah. Right? And I'm just turned upside down. All the worst jealous thoughts in my mind is like, oh my god, she's out parting. Whatever, I don't know. And the next morning we talk and then she's like going out and I'm like, so did you make a home or not? And she's like making up some cockamamey story. I knew it was super like not legitimate, but I couldn't articulate it. And she was just very good at manipulating my words and feeling. So I just felt horrible. And I was just telling her, you know what? You don't know how much that dress kind of has become a problem for me. And my brother is like pissed off at me because he had to then use his own money to buy a dress for a girl. He is younger. It was just a messy situation. And it created all kinds of friction between my brother and then my mom because they all know about this debt and this very toxic relationship I have. Yeah. And so finally, I just told her like, this, I just can't stand this. I don't want to be with you anymore. I know you went out with other people. I know that I paid for a dress that I'll never see. And you just lied to me all the time. And she goes, whatever. And she says, well, if you don't trust me, I said, okay, I guess I'm not being rational, but I don't trust you. And so this is over. And that day, I just felt horrible. Like I was angry. I can tell you right now that I can tell it with some objective distance, but I was crying. I was angry. I want to put my fist through the wall. It was like this sucked. She was my entire life at that point. So that began this whole transformative process. And there's a lot of things that were happening at that same time that compounded the problem. One was I had promised my parents and my brother that I wasn't going to be entangled with this girl and that I was going to be focused on my portfolio. And so they saw me just throwing my life away. Yeah. And they couldn't handle it anymore either. So that, you know, we talk about this story arc and the dark night of the soul. Yeah. I had that night, like two days after we broke up, where I really did feel like, you know, life wasn't worth living. And that that night I cried like I've never cried before. And I felt like I hated my brother. I hated his girlfriend. My mom just gave up on me and my dad was probably sitting there. I didn't talk to my dad, but I was probably thinking my dad's like nodding and saying like, I knew it. I knew this was a dumb idea. And in that moment, I had to make a really big adult decision as an 18 year old kid, which was, do I want to continue living or do I want to do something with my life, even though nobody believes in me. And maybe this is where the lack of validation thing begins. Yeah. Which was I was just going to do this for me. Yeah. Because at this point, I had nobody that was in my corner. I remember this one thing. I don't share this all that often, but I remember after talking to my mom and my mom had said, forget about going to our center, just go to state school. It'll be fine. And that was code word for me. Like she's giving up. Yeah. Right. And I was crying. Yeah. And I have a younger brother. He's only he's only a year younger, but he and I for most of our life did not get along very well. And I had a member that he had loaned me some money. And so I asked my mom like, I want to talk to him. And in that moment, I had said to him, like, I love you and I appreciate you helping me. And there's a lot of stuff that's going on right now. I don't I'm crying when I'm saying this. And he's probably sitting like, what the heck is going on? Right? Because he and I don't have that kind of relationship where we're having these kinds of conversations. I said, you know what? I'll always be there for you. Because right now you're the only person I think I can count on. And this is like a person I don't have a great relationship with. Just keep that in mind. Okay. Like we fought like cats and dogs. I think he was just super confused. Like, you know how sometimes when people get drunk and they get really emotional. Yeah. And you're like, whoa. And that had this happened to me from the other point of view. I think for him, maybe he was thinking what is going on. Yeah. And maybe afraid of somebody's really suicidal. I don't know. I don't think people think that. You know, but as a kid, I had fantasized about suicide multiple times. You know, and I wanted to be painful for everybody. I really did. So this is not a new thought for me. I'm I'm sharing this to you because I'm just trying to be as real as possible. You will make me cry now. You know that. Yeah. So that was just my my road back. Like I'm not going to do this for anybody. I have to do it for me. And I'm going to do it no matter what. And I had made a promise to myself that I'm going to get in TARD center. I'm going to finish my portfolio. Obviously first get in TARD center. And if zero people supported me, even though it was a super expensive school, I would do whatever I can. If it takes me 10 years to finish school, it will take me 10 years. If I have to work a semester and then go to school semester or two, whatever, whatever needed to happen. So that was when it in the art, the character becomes super resolved. Like this is it. Like you go down to the depths and then you must like that man climbs out of the Lazarus pit with his back broken. That was me. And I'm being very dramatic about it. But I want to share something here. So it's I don't want to tell you the story because I don't want giant amount of pity for anybody. But one of the reasons why I think I'm as successful as I am is because of this trait, which is I take things to their extreme logical conclusion. Yeah, you do. So if I am sitting here sobbing like a child, if I give up on my dreams, if I don't get focused more portfolio, I return home, totally defeated. Mission unaccomplished. That worked my way into getting a state school. Yeah. But did you feel like it's almost when you describe it like you were this super sensitive and then this happened and then you like almost put on a mask. You know, it's like a superhero thing that because how could you handle it? I mean, it's not that you change overnight as a person or your personality. Like you needed to do something dress to go to or how do you describe that? I actually do look at it like something happened. So I don't know a person can change it 24 hours, but I think if a person can, I did that night. So the switch was flipped because it was so dire, so extreme in my mind that basically just go die or rely on yourself and prove to every single person that you have what it takes. That you're going to do this thing. So that night I describe it to people as and that night the child died and the man appeared. And I'm a completely different person after that point. So for context, prior to that day, I would wait to the last minute to do my homework. So the assignment was due on Monday. I would literally be at King Coast Sunday night all night working on it. And I was totally on focus because I was basically watching late night shows back then was our synchial hall and then CNC music factory with Paula Abduel. And things that I'm like, I don't even know why I'm watching this. Yeah. Right. And so I put in the minimum effort that I needed to be successful. And that was pretty consistent with me throughout high school. And after that day, yeah, stop watching the TV. I stopped for obvious reasons because of the breakup. I stopped calling my ex girlfriend. Yeah. I was just like, what kind of projects do I need to finish so that my portfolio can be at a point in which I can get into the school. That's all I was thinking about. So in a period about, I'm going to say like 45 days, maybe a little bit more than that. I finished all my portfolio pieces. And I even drove with my friend Jorge to Tijuana. I had a professional photographer shoot the packages for me. And I was ready. I was ready to get into school. I just feel when I hear that it's a little bit sad that I mean, I know you were really successful. And but like what happened with that, you know, when you say you totally change as a person. And I know I told you this before, but I do, I often, I'm often kind of good at reading people. Yeah. And I do see that boy in you so many times and also really, really sensitive person. And you know, I asked you a couple of days ago, like, did I really like can't I read you at all? Because if you'd so, objective and sometimes you just describe yourself as this logical, cold person. And I'm like, no, that's not you. Like, did I totally misunderstand you or misread you your personality? No, I don't know you missed right my personality. There is a joyful, whimsical, boyish person inside this almost 50 year old body. Yeah. And he gets to come out to play from time to time. But when it comes to making hard decisions about business or accomplishing some kind of objective, that person has to wait. Okay. So when you see me giddy and laughing like a school girl, when you see me be so excited to talk to a guest or an idea or a concept and I'm very animated and I let some of the antics go. Did that as that person, that person's been there and that person hasn't gone away. It's just I'm better at regulating who gets to speak and when. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you don't have that reactions to your emotions at all. You can control how you react all the time. Most of the time. Yeah. I've been in situations before where I felt like punching somebody in the face as an adult. As a kid, I had this feeling all the time. But I didn't act on that. I'll share an example with you. Yeah. There's one time I think I'm maybe eight or nine years into the business and things are going really well. We're successful big clients and I have a whole team of people. Yeah. And there was an art director who worked for me on staff. And he was talking about something. And he's just he's got a dark personality like he complains a lot. And I was in the other room and I could hear him talking. I'm very sensitive hearing. And he said something like, oh yeah, they just make stuff up here. And I dropped what I was doing. I went out into the room. Yeah. I said, hey, what are you saying? Yeah. And there's a lot of things you can say about me that I'm going to be totally okay with. The one thing that you do that I lose my cool is you attack my integrity. I can't remember the specifics, but he had basically said you lie. Okay. And you could say like we're cheap. We're we're not good designers. We have bad taste. You could see all those kinds of things. It's not going to hurt me. And I get this from my dad. Because my dad throughout all the many lectures and conversations we had when I was going up, he said, a man is only as good as his support. That's the contract son. Yeah. And I always kept that like I only have my honesty and my integrity. Everything else I don't know who I am, but I have that. Yeah. And that's the reason why my relationship hurts so much with this girl that I fell in love with is because I didn't know what was real anymore. What was true? Yeah. Because she just made up stories all the time. And so when this employee had said this about me specifically, not just broadly. And I said, tell me one time when I've said something and it's not to be true. And my voice, I could feel it. It was coming out. Right? Like if this person was going to do a little character assassination because he was just not, he was feeling grumpy. And if you wanted to go down this road, I was prepared to go to whatever extreme that was going to be. And I could feel it. I was like, I said, you better take that back right now because that is not true what you said. And luckily he could see what's going on. He said, okay, I misspoke. I'm like, okay, and then I just back I'm cool again. Yeah. But you don't you're not so often lose your temper, right? No. Not now. And there's a couple of times I can remember the times, which I really I was ready to fight. And you know, I think women and men deal with this a little differently. Like when men are ready to fight, we're talking about exchange blows and punch each other in the face, right? It's not just verbally saying, I you're stupid or something. You know, so there's a story here. I was running two offices. We had a bicoso situation where we're in Santa Monica, New York. Yeah, one of my executive producers had said something to me. I was like, I can't believe my employees talking to me like this right now. So this idea of integrity and respect is really big for me. You attack those two things and we're going to have a problem. And I remember and I was like, my blood was boiling. And he was he was yelling at me at this point, saying all kinds of stupid stuff. And I said to him, I said, I'm very calm, almost like cold assassin way. Yeah. Even though inside, I was feeling very different. I said, look, I don't think this conversation is productive. My concern is if we continue down this path, you will say something and I will say something that we can't come back from. And I think we're really close at that point right now. My suggestion is we end this call and reconvene tomorrow when we're both cooler. I said it just like, yeah. Right? And he said, I will not end this call now. We will talk about it right now. I said, okay. That's your choice. Let's get into it. And then I think his heart and his mind were a little the timing was a little off. And then his his mind caught up with his heart, which was like, wait a minute. I think I'm in a getting into a situation where I'm going to get myself fired. Yeah. So he said, no, no, you're right. Let's talk about this tomorrow. So here's what I did. My blood is boiling. Because I wanted to tell him right then and there, you're fired. You know, get out. Don't ever come. You know, I want to say whatever I wanted to say at that point. Yeah. And we got to phone. And I give it a minute. And I'm thinking, you know, if he smart, he would send me a text message apologizing saying, I was out of line. I'm sorry. I've been under a lot of stress. Yeah. And that's all I need. That's all I need. I don't need to giant me a copo here. Nothing came through. I check my emails. I'm like, okay, 10, 20 minutes. I'm like, okay. This guy apology. No, no, no. He's not retracting anything. So I call up my business coach, Kira. And Kira knows like I never call him. And now when I'm talking to Kira, I'm telling him my true emotion right now. Yeah. Which is like, Kira, I'm ready to fire this person. He's done. He crossed the line. And Kira's like talking me through the whole bit. He's like, Chris, I can feel that you're really upset right now. And you have a right to be. Yeah. Nobody should, no, no, no, no, no, employee should ever talk to his boss the way that person talked to you, right? Yeah. And they crossed the line. No doubt about it. And I would advise you to fire him. But let's be prudent about this. Let's set up a plan. As he's going to disrupt your office operations and the people that work in that office. Yeah. Yeah. So this was one of those moments where I'm like, okay, Kira, that's why that's why I have you because I'm ready to move. And so next day, Kira, no email, no nothing. I went into office. And I told my my other executive producer in my office, they said, hey, this happened last night. And somebody crossed the line. Yeah. And he said, you have a right to fire at his person. He said, okay, it's sad. But see, so like I can feel it. Yeah. Yeah. And see myself feeling it. And say, like, how do I want to react? In this situation, I wanted to react this way. But it doesn't mean I don't have those feelings. I do have those feelings. Yeah. That's what I wonder. But then I was like, I can see you have those feelings. And I can feel you have those feelings. So if you were saying something else, I would really question myself seriously if I lose my super power. But okay, I'm glad that you have those feelings, but you can control them. And that's what I try to do. Yeah. I witness the feelings and interpret what they mean. And then I decide how I want to react or respond. Yeah. And that's the first half of the story. Next week, we continue the conversation going deep into Chris's personal mission, life philosophies, and the story of how the future came to be. See you then. Thanks for joining us this time. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get a new insightful episode from us every week. The future podcast is hosted by Christo and produced by me, Greg Gunn. Thank you to Anthony Barrow for editing and mixing this episode and thank you to Adam Sandborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reading and reviewing our show on Apple podcasts. It'll help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. Have a question for Chris or me. Head over to thefeature.com/HeyChris and ask away. We read every submission and we just might answer yours in a later episode. If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefuture.com. You'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. 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