#113 - Crafting Champions and Building Brotherhood: Inside the Triumph of Westfield's Football Legacy with Coach Jake Gilbert

Hey, you welcome to Coaching Minds podcast, the official podcast of mental training plan today. Very special guest. If you did not listen to season three episode 11 with Jake Gilbert talking about developing grit, definitely worth your time to go back and check that out. Coach Gilbert, thank you so much for joining us today. As usual, thanks for having us. Coach Karnes, big fan of the mental training plan and all the various ways we've used it over the years and everything you've done for me personally and for our team and all of our athletes. So honor to be on. So I would love to talk, because I know there's going to be a whole bunch of listeners that have no idea where Westfield came from. And I'd know I've talked about a little bit before my perspective being there as a player, starting off my teaching and coaching career there. But I'd love to hear from you when you were kind of on the outside looking in at that Westfield job. What did you kind of-- what was your perception of the state that they were in as a football program? Oh, frankly, not very good. It was to me more of a spiritual move and we felt called to come, but I had no evidence that it was a good decision for my career. Or for football, I thought it would be a good family situation, potentially, to raise our kids here. So the football program-- I did think we had some good kids who were hard working and maybe needed a much stronger vision. We did an initial survey of all the players who said they were interested in football. So there were about 100 kids. And of the 101 kid said if everything went well that year, we could go 500. And it was Wade Bertron, a good friend, who was a spectacular, very confident player. But even the most confident kid that we've ever coached probably thought that best-case scenario was 599% of the team felt like we could not go 500 at best. And so what a disappointment. But that's where we were from an expectation standpoint. And there were just a lot of work to do in terms of establishing toughness in systems. And I think we could reach for more. And we did. And I want to fast forward and skip everything because we're going to come back to it. So starting off, Westfield, my freshman year, we were 2A, the second smallest class in Indiana high school football. We skipped 3A and went up to 4A in my junior year and just got the break speed off of us. I mean, we were bad. We were not any good. And so there was a whole generation of kids that had grown up in youth football, in middle school football, in high school football of just used to seeing Westfield get beat by these bigger schools. And it kind of became the expectation, like you were talking about, and I remember you walked in and started talking about when we win a state championship. And it was like, well, we won two games. Maybe we should start off winning three games first before we start talking about state championships. But now let's fast forward a whole bunch. And I want to just talk a little bit about the success that the football program has had here in recent years. Can you kind of give us just an opportunity to kind of brag on the success that your players, the kids that have put in the time and the work, the coaching staff that's just dedicated themselves to this program? Can you kind of update us and give us that highlight real list of accomplishments? Sure. I mean, I feel like we've just done a great job building the culture where kids love themselves, and they love their teammates, and they love Westfield Shamrock football. And I think that that's been the biggest accomplishment. And we are, gosh, like 850 players deep now, K through 12, maybe 900. And we have 200 players at the high school alone. And it's a big organization. So it's grown, but it's grown on love and work ethic, so really family and commitment and out work, out love culture. I think that that's maybe the biggest accomplishment on we've had a lot of fun along the way. I think we've had big impact on the community. I think we've sold hope and belief. And I think people believe in us. And then the victories have been good. I was told that only one team as center grove, girl, has won more games than us in the last 10 years in Indiana football. I don't know if that's true or not, but we've won a lot. And I think we've won whole probably seven or eight sectionals in the last 11 years. And this year we were a play away from going to the state. We made it to the semi-state round and lost in double over time, but I think the last four years was probably the winningest class we've ever had overall. And their records were 12 and 2, 12 and 2, 8 and 4, and 11 and 2. So that's a pretty successful high school run to win over 40 games. But I think we've done it, again, just development, outwork, out love, getting better, growth mindset, big vision, trying to eradicate complacency at every turn. And I think a lot of that has been the success beyond just the measurables. As you-- let's now kind of fill in some of those gaps. So let's go back to 2013. First time that the high school had been to the state championship since 98. And you know, they went as a 2A school. And it came up short in that state championship game. How do you-- as you kind of stood back and evaluated that performance, what did you go into that off-season thinking? OK, we're now-- we're making some progress. We're headed in the right direction. But we need to-- I was really concerned and I was right. But let's start with this. I was devastated that we lost. And I mean, I was wiped. And so I can look back now and logically say, OK, we were underdogs in a snap. But it was just such a magical run that even though we lost to a great team and a guy who's now in NFL and an extraordinary player, and I was shocked and devastated. And I did not handle it well. And I didn't help our kids handle it well. So you know, that was poor leadership on my part because I was crushed and I was in my own feelings. And so I don't think I handled the transition into the next year well. And I reached out to mentors to try to help. And I could just tell we were still just in the whole as a team. Like, we returned some good players. And so we were just licking our wounds so long and we just couldn't quite turn the page. But yet at the same time, there was an arrogance of, like, listen. Now we know how to do it. Well, we'll do it again when it's time and we'll get there. And I don't think we put in the work from, say, January through June that we needed to. Or maybe even June and July. And I think we had some leaders on the team who just felt like it would happen again because we returned some talent and we were good last year. But the culture wasn't good enough. And we didn't get it done. And you know, some of those close games, maybe we had won the year before, well, we lost. And I don't think it was because we weren't talented. We graduated some great players, but we graduated in incredible culture. And I don't think I did a good enough job getting us back there. I know that that offseason, you came to one of our quarterback club meetings and said, we got to do this with the entire team. We were doing some mental training stuff. And I don't know that if I've ever thanked you for this, but without that kind of kickstart of, hey, you got to figure out how to do this with everybody. Certainly wouldn't have written the focus cycle books. Certainly wouldn't have started mental training plans. Certainly, my path would have been much different. So thank you for that. But there was that challenge of, we've got to be more intentional about training the mental side of the game. And it was like, I don't even know where to begin trying to do this. As you think of the program wide changes from coming up short in 2013 to getting back to that state championship game in 2016, in your mind, what was different? What growth had to occur program wide to take that next step and win a state championship? Well, the first time you go, that sets the vision. And vision always, belief always proceeds action. And so our belief just grew and grew and grew in 2013 throughout the off season, through the in season. So the vision continued to expand. Well, we had the vision that it could happen then in 2014. I just think we lost track, though, that you have to build it every year. And you have to build it throughout the season. And there's just never a point of time where you reach some level that, OK, now we're good enough. I don't care who it is. It could be the 10 and 1 Philadelphia Eagles who finished one and six down the stretch. I mean, you have to keep improving and growing at all times. And I think when you have to understand both views, the big picture telescope vision of where you can go and where you're heading, which is your compass, your North Star, your Y, your purpose. But then, gosh, you've got to put your nose to the grindstone and that microscope day-to-day vision and just put all that work in day after day after day and being every day team, not an everyday team. And I think we messed up because we were just coming every day team and we just had hopes and wishes and we didn't earn it. And I learned that above all, I've got to demand that out of everybody, especially the leaders on the team and our obviously our staff and myself. And so that's what I learned the most is we had a dip in the details and the complacency. We were there, we were going through the motions, but as more activity instead of productivity. And I feel like we just weren't improving at the same rate as the 2013 D-Minute Costus. I appreciate some of that background and want to really shift gears into the whole reason that I asked you to come in today. Our last episode, we had Jeremy Finleyon who was essentially a first-year coach taken over a small school program. And you and Jeremy are obviously at very different points. And I want to dive into, you know, you've been at this larger school for over a decade here. And, you know, I know when you first showed up to Westfield, if we would have gone 500, there would have been parents that thought we were the greatest coaches ever. I remember in 2014, we were joking about some parents that came in to meet with you that were telling you that you didn't know what you were doing in some aspect. I don't even remember what it was, but it was like the, the expectations had changed. The stage is different. The school size has grown. The, you know, there's the challenge of living up to higher and higher expectations. There's the challenge of you have to build it every year. There's the challenge of you can't get complacent. Talk to us a little bit about, you know, as you're not in those beginning building stages anymore, what are some of the challenges that come along with leading a larger program that has had a level of success? Now, yeah, I still think that the more success you have once you accomplish something kind of for the team, it's easy for people to think about themselves. So let's face it, like in 2013, okay, on that team, we had Westfield's first ever division one offered player in high school, Devonries. And man, what an honor. You know, and then we also had Jacob Robinson. So we had two division one guys on that team. Well, you know, hey, now we have six. And maybe there'll be more, you know, and that's, that's a change, but the bigger point I'm making is, there was a time when if I could get a kid, the opportunity to play at what's a matter you, then people will be thrilled to death. Oh my gosh, my kid can go play football over that little bit of school. Well, now, you know, everyone thinks that they can be an all-American in college. And you know, it's just a little bit disruptive to the team concept at times and the current environment, goodness gracious, everything about it works against building team, everything about it works towards, you know, the individual. And we want those guys to get accolades and attention and love and reach their individual goals. But once we get to August, that's shut that down. I mean, the all season, it is about developing yourself and getting everything that you can get for yourself. But as soon as we start August, the team, the team, the team, I don't want to hear your reading tweets. I don't want to hear anything about any individuals. I don't want anything about any of it, just the team. And then in the all season, I will absolutely help you reach your individual goals. But we have so many more individual distractions, I think, than we used to. And that's, maybe that's just the environment we're in, but I think it's also a byproduct of our success. Here's the other thing, our roster's grown from 100 to 200. But yet, the amount of time in the game is still the same. So I've got twice as many kids to play every week. And everyone still expects to win. And really, every parent out there wants you to play, you know, the 21 best players and then their kids. And so that hasn't changed. It's just that we literally have doubled the amount of kids to find a way to get in, then we did in the beginning. So those are the biggest changes I've seen. - And what are some of the ways that you think you guys address that? Because I mean, just logistically getting that many people to feel like they are indeed a part of the success of the program without just throwing them some fluff, without just, you know, giving them a couple courtesy minutes here and there. How do you get them to feel like, yes, I am a part of this. I have ownership in this. If they're not a big time contributor, especially. - The thing is, the kids know who should play, you know. And so, JV freshmen were a little more equal in our playing time and everything. But varsity, you know, we have to win the varsity game. That's how we're evaluated as a staff, right? And so the kids kind of know when we're up front and clear, but we're also very clear about, you know, we treat our players as they deserve to be treated. And guys who live out the values of the program, we try to honor them. Some guys, you know, as they're full potential, maybe in leadership, some maybe in serving the team, some maybe in being a mentor to a younger player. Another guy, his job maybe to score touchdowns, are make tackles. And not everyone gets those roles, but we honor the contributions that people make, even if they're not always on the field. And we make a big deal about it. And we try not to do a whole lot of individual awards. We do team awards. And we give some individual awards for performance, but we don't overdo it. And whether that be the end of the year banquet, or hey, we won the game. Now let's talk about who the best players were. We do some of that, but we try not to overdo it. And we don't, like in the season, if we lose, we don't give any individual awards. 'Cause the priority is for the team to win. And so if the team wins, then you know what? Then individuals get honored too. That's the message that we try to send. And we try to bend over backwards to make being a part of the football program special for everybody. And so we try to include team building, character building, fun activities. We try to honor kids that don't get to play a lot. We try to really back up our talk in that sense. And all along the way, we try to message that to the kids that we value you separate from your performance. Now that doesn't mean that if a kid performs the best and he doesn't buy in as much, Friday nights is about who performs the best. That's who gets to play. The rest of the year is not necessarily about that. But everyone has to be clear on that. And we are clear with them. - Talk to us a little bit about the physical changes that you guys have undergone as a program. I mean, I remember a time where you would start off staff meetings with, I don't wanna hear about how big this other kid is. I don't wanna hear about how big or how fast this other team is. We're not gonna complain about the guys that we don't have. And I'm sure that at times there's probably still schools that are bigger, faster, stronger in places than you guys. But just talk to us a little bit about the transformation that I know we had Coach Hansen on the show back on season two, episode eight, talking about physical, emotional, and spiritual strength. And he's obviously been a huge asset, just a huge piece of the success of the program. Talk to us though about just kind of that development and how you've done that, how you've prioritized that and the fruit that you've seen from that. - Yeah, I'm definitely a weight room guy. And I would say off the bat, Coach Hansen deserves every bit of the credit. He's the head coach in the weight room and the off season, I'm his assistant. He's my brother, I love him. He's amazing. And he's more competent at his job than I could ever be at mine. So we're crystal clear on who's in charge in there and he has my support and backing. He prevents me from overworking the kids, you know, if anything 'cause that's kind of my thing. But he is so competent. But I think, you know, first off from the heart, right? You have to love yourself, your teammates, and what you do so much that you're willing to put this level of work in. I want the commitment to be immense, immense. So, you know, yesterday we had, they worked out three times. We had it something before school, during school and after school, just because it was Monday. Now because of any other reason. And I want it to be that way. I want the commitment to be immense and they're expected to be at every minute of it working. It's hard as they possibly can all the time. Now, the cumulative effect of all that is just that once you've made that much sacrifice, you know, you can't help but to go do your best again and again and again. And I think it's like compounding interest, Ben. So, you know, it's compounding interest in the way you build your body. And it's compounding interest in how hard you're willing to play and it's compounding interest to buy into the other factors of the program like mental training. Because once you've put that much physical work in, it's foundational. And it does expand then your belief. I think there's more confidence built in that weight room than any room in a world. And so I think once they start to see themselves differently, like maybe I can do it. Then I believe other actions follow. And then it just, it's like the flywheel of momentum that just keeps turning and turning and turning. And something clicks that they're willing to put in more effort. And then they like it and they keep coming back over and over and over and working their cuts out. And then before you know it's like, wow, I've gained 20 pounds of muscle every off season. And you know, then you get out there on the field and realize football's a lot easier when I'm stronger and faster than I was two years ago. And that has helped us. And I think we now have norms where people expect like guys, we're gonna be strong here and we're gonna be fast. And I don't think we view ourselves as less than physically anymore. People go to the physical part so much, right? Physical football is a very demanding physical game. People watch it for the physical nature. And so people are just all about the body, the body, the body. Size and strength of the recruit or of the player or whatever. And that's the part that you can kind of judge and assess because you see how fast Tyree Kill is or how far Josh Allingham throw the ball, whatever. How big DeForest Buckner is, sure. But I just really believe that the great ones are all built again, first their heart. They know their purpose and they love in a way that motivates them and drives them to do it. And then their mind, we need guys who are smart and competent in what they're doing and their job and their assignment and then their body in terms of putting it into practice and play. But there has to be this connecting strength of things that coaching the mind gives you and it's we trust that their heart is in the right place. We trust them that they know their assignments. We trust that they can do their job physically. But if they don't trust themselves, if they're not confident enough to trust themselves, then none of it matters. And if they don't believe that they can do it, then they won't and it'll show up at the worst possible time. We play great competition every week and we're in close tough situations constantly. So my goodness, if you have to coach the mind and the mental skills to a point that the others can fire or else it's like trying to drive a car with no gasoline. So if they don't trust themselves, then I don't, if they don't have the confidence skills, I'm just not sure that they can execute and we're gonna, the average person thinks it's something else. Oh, the coaches dumb are, well, they're not fast enough. Well, I mean, is that one tenth on the 40? Really, the difference is that they gotta have the confidence. Oh, I can still get it done. I just, I'll adapt my technique. I mean, shoot, when you take the pads off of some of the guys that you win with, sometimes your opponents are like, that's that kid? That little guy? I thought you had all studs here since you win. And then they, it's like, they are studs mentally. These guys are studs mentally, confident, battle tested, believers, overachievers, yeah, over believers, absolutely. Well, sometimes people don't see that part of football because it's such a physically oriented game. And to me, what you brought to us, what I knew was going to have to be our edge for us to gain ground and surpass, was gonna be how we coach the heart and how we coach the mind. Talk to us, talk to us just about maybe a couple quick examples of athletes that you feel like we're so, you know, either their heart or their mind or their leadership, just they changed everything about the program because of some of those, some of those things that don't show up on the stat line. - Well, you know, I think this past year in Jackson was our quarterback and there was a change in terms of, we were down, we won 11 games. We were down after halftime, seven times. So, you know, I'm not sure the way we went about winning was healthy and good. But no one seemed to mind and everyone seemed to believe we'll always win because, hey, we just make the plays down the stretch and there were so many games. I was like, gosh, we made every single play we had to down the stretch and a lot of those were with the kid throwing the ball. And so, I appreciated that this year. I thought our whole team, the resolve of it all was really, really good. I think Andy sweet and just the way he led was maybe the most profound, you know, of all. And I just felt like, you know, I don't know that Andy was our best at playing the position of quarterback, you know, I mean, it would be hard to argue against Ryan Pepio's arm or hard to argue against some of the things that like Kim Simon's brought to the table are Nick Ferrer. Gosh, we've just had so many good ones, Wade Bertron's competitiveness, you know, but like as a leader, as someone who moved the culture of an entire team, well, Andy sweet was like, it's Pied Piper. And so in my mind, he moved us all forward. Me included and being in his presence helped us all so that was something to know what I really know or see. I saw it every day, every day, you know, Jacob Robinson. In those early days, we only had about one or two guys that could fight their way out of a wet paper bag. And, you know, Devon Reese, Frank Grimes, the way those guys competed, Darryen started event like we had just enough, just a few tough guys that competed well. Then I think stiffened the spine of everyone else and that very first team, John Roscoe, Nikita Yesapov. Now, I mean, those guys were a little bit by gosh, they were junkyard dog tough and Darryen started event, you know, but then by the time we got, you know, some of our young guys became big dogs in 2013, well, then we had some dudes. And, and, you know, Robinson, Devon, like those guys gave us a couple dudes out there to say, all right, we can compete with you now. And I think the big brother effect of that as in, if you're going to fight some guys in an alley, well, if big brothers with you, you've got a lot, your spine is a lot more stiff. If he's not, you're like, let's do a peace treaty real quick. But, you know, we, you know, Jacob gave us a guy that we brought to the game that people were like, we've got one of those guys too. So, we're willing to play it. You know, look at this stuff. And I think, you know, those are a few guys that I think just kind of changed, changed all. And then the last one, I've got to mention would just be Maximus Webster. It's amazing how many of these guys recorded backspit. Webster was just such a good person. Now, he was an incredible player. My gosh. Was he a football player, he could do anything. But on that team, Maximus was just such a good person that the outlaw of culture. I mean, you want to talk about unselfish. My gosh, was he amazing. And then a couple of that with Micah Halzer, who was the best football player I've ever coached. My gosh, now we've had some excellent football players who were maybe more gifted, like say Dylan Deneman. Now, if this past year, you know what I mean, but Micah just has an overall football player. Well, I mean, he's just, he's the best I've ever coached. And so like, when you put him and Maximus together, well, that was enough. You know, we just had to build around those guys, but those two guys, we could do anything. And that's how the team felt anyway. So even though we, you know, we finished 12 and two both the junior and senior year, I mean, people thought, as long as we got those guys, well, they won't let us lose. And so we thought we were always going to win because everyone felt like, as long as those two guys were on the bus, go ahead and go. That's all we need. - I know, when I was, when I was coach from a semi at Trader's point, you know, I had, our entire team had to listen to episode number 72 with Andy Sweet. It was right after he'd been selected as Man of Honor, basically take all the, you know, all of the officers in the Marine Corps, some of the top leaders, you know, that our country has and he was selected as the top leader. It was like, you guys need to go listen to this, which, you know, I'm not saying that listening to a 26 minute podcast with Andy Sweet was going to change the culture of our program and all the sudden build these kids into leaders. So how do you go about, you know, for a school that maybe can't rattle off all these names of all these kids that they have, where do you start to develop that and grow that and build that? - Well, we're fortunate here and we're a one horse town. So I'm able to get to the youth and they believe what you tell 'em to believe, especially at that age. And so I think you gotta set the hook early if you can, if you're able to and really sell culture and be there and help them experience it. And you're always, you know, given the long-term vision of when you're in high school. So it doesn't matter if they win or they don't in fifth and sixth grade, but you're always talking about when you're in high school, it's gonna be amazing. It's gonna be like this and they'll believe what you tell 'em. When you have 'em in high school, you know, I think you, there's that, if you don't have anything going well then change something in work hard. So the attribution theory of motivation, I mean, you make some change and they're automatically gonna believe it'll be better just because. And so you make changes as needed, but then I do believe it's like you earn it through hard work. And by doing that, the more and more you do that, the more they love each other. And so that's the culture that we believe in building is just family commitment, you know, out working out love. And I think that's just the way I know how to do it. Now along the way, you train leaders who then reinforce your message. And so if you don't have the example for them to see, well, you kind of build it together, but as soon as you get that example, by gosh, you put them out front every chance you can and you highlight, you know, who they are and what they did well. And then what happens, here's when you know, when your average Joe, not your stars, okay, not the guys you knew would get there. When your average Joe starts to get there in every way shape or form, it becomes amazing. Like, oh, your backups are actually as strong as your starters used to be. Your backups speak the language, your fifth string guy, you know, your sophomore who you don't know if he'll ever be a varsity player or not. When those guys really get it and they speak it and they live it out and then they develop. Well, now you know, it's permeated the entire team. That's your evidence. When it's just a few guys at the top, they probably are gonna be great no matter who is the coach. But when it permeates the average Joe, that you don't even know if they'll ever be a varsity player or not, now it's worked. - Obviously, every year you have that goal of, we wanna reach our full potential. We're really hoping that that means we're gonna win a state championship and you know, have our hand raised at the end of the season. Obviously, you know, you came up a little bit short of that. But in my mind, you got to experience something that is a, if I'm being honest, would be a dream of mine someday, being able to coach your son. He was the, he ended up, you know, winning the starting quarterback job. Talk to us just a little bit about maybe some of the challenges that come with coach in your own son. And maybe some of the things you did well and some of the things that you would do differently or any advice you would have for coaches out there. - Yeah, it's tough. You know, I talked to a ton of guys in advance because I knew that Jackson would have a chance to play. I wasn't sure, but I knew he'd have a chance to compete to play. So that being the case, you know, I did some research, but gosh, I don't know that anyone told me anything. That was amazing. One guy said, hey, don't punish him because he's yours. I thought that was good advice. A lot of people told me to enjoy it. I didn't listen that much. I would say what I did well, I made myself present and available for any part of the journey that he wanted to take part in to do extra. And, you know, when your kid's a little under like, hey, dad, you want to play a game or dad, you want to throw the ball and man, say yes to that every time because when they hit around 14, and I don't want anything to do with you. And so, you know, after that lapse of time where I was kind of out of the cool circle, well, then he needed me again because he had goals. And I don't know that it was so much that he wanted to pay attention to his dad or, you know, hang out with his dad as I had the key and he wanted to go throw the football. And I had the equipment and the key. And so that was the most enjoyable part for me is just being a father again who, hey, I got to spend time with my son for a like-minded purpose. And I enjoyed that. It wasn't, I didn't do a ton of coaching. Um, you know, he's a very, very independent kid. I told him on the front end, um, you know, he's pretty high functioning and independent. So it was like, look, honestly, buddy, but when you kind of leave the house, you know, I don't know that you ever really be back a whole lot. And you're not going to need us much. I don't think when you become an adult. And so this is our time. And I enjoyed it in that sense. Now in the games, I was never nervous, but I was just doing my job, you know, and I tried to take a little bit of time to kind of reflect and enjoy it, but I wasn't great at that. Um, I asked a good friend of mine, Jason Simmons. I said, how did you handle it? And he said, you know, I would go back and on Sunday, if I could steal some time away from preparing for the next opponent and rewatch the game just as a dad. I did a little of that. But in the game for the most part, I was, um, just coaching. And then when, um, you know, he had an excellent quarterback, one great below him who, who got injured in our inner squad game and, you know, unfortunately for him, he didn't get to compete at the start of the year and, uh, or else they both would have been playing, you know, at least through the first two or three games and then we make a decision. Uh, the original plan was, well, pick a starter coming out of the inner squad, scrimmage, he'll start the, the, been David Scrimmage in the first two games and then we'll reevaluate that was the plan. But then when the other guy got hurt, well, that paved the way for Jackson, get all those reps and he played great. And we won and, you know, by the time the other guy was able to come back, shoot, we were like, you know, five and oh, six and oh, I mean, at that point, I wasn't real eager to switch and I thought he was playing well. We were playing well, but we started to give the other quarterbacks some chance and, um, but you know, we were just kind of too far down the road. And I was happy with his performance. But that whole thing was very stressful on me. So that was the hardest part. I was so focused on making sure that Jackson's competition, our junior quarterback, who I'm not naming just to protect his privacy, but he'll, he'll be great next year. Um, he's going to be amazing. But I, I just was so concerned about treating him right and well and, you know, making sure the perception and everything that that, that made it way less enjoyable, um, even when it was kind of clear cut. You know, I still, that made it hard. I wish I could have discarded some of that and just enjoyed it a little more, but that was tough for me, um, because I'm the head coach. And so it was my decision who played. And so ultimately, I just wanted to make sure I was treating the other guy fair. Now, in my opinion, I probably went overboard to make sure that they both got reps versus just my son who had to be the starter. Cause I think we probably gave him less reps as a starter than any starter we've ever had. And that was just probably because I wanted to make sure that the backup had a fair chance. And so I'm very, very proud of what he accomplished. Uh, I love being a part of it. I love what our team accomplished. You know, I, I wish I wouldn't screwed it up in that last one. And we could have made it one game further, but if we would have lost that game, I would have felt just a sick. So I know that's just how, how it is. And but it was, um, beyond what I could have ever really even written from a script, you know, like, oh my gosh, he'll get a play. And I never cared that he was quarterback ever. I, in fact, I wanted to play linebacker. Um, but for him to be the quarterback out there and lead us to so many. Fourth quarter, come back wins and play with so much just poise down the stretch. I, I was very, very proud of him for that, um, father to son and coach the player both. As we, uh, as you get ready to head into this next season, let's say, you know, you have, uh, you have a younger coach who's going to be coming in and joining you guys for the first time. You're trying to say, look, here's, here's kind of a snapshot of who we are, what we do, what we're building, where we're going. Well, how would you, how would you kind of, you know, briefly give that overview of your program and what's important in that, in that first message with that new coach? Well, you know, anyone who's new to program coach or player, I go through the whole culture piece. So in my mind, you know, hey, we're a great experience, full potential in terms of vision and mission and, um, we're going to live that out. And I think how we do that, how we behave on day to day is to out work and out love. And you have to understand that for any of it to make sense. I mean, that drives and steers everything. And then we'll get into strategy and nuts and bolts, but, you know, we have to be people and purpose over performance. I mean, I want to win. Believe me. Don't, I mean, anyone who knows me, I want to win everything all the time. But how we get there, I believe, is people driven and loving our kids and loving each other and, and I want clarity on it because I think, you know, people get attracted to a program based on the record, which again is important to me. However, our why and our how is more based on loving the kids, pushing the kids, um, getting into work hard, getting to love each other, getting to grow in a coach has to understand all that. And then the second part is for them to understand the relationship between us. We want you to come here and make us better, but understand who we are and what we do first and then make it better. Um, we went and brought you in if we didn't think you could improve us and we want to grow and improve, believe me. But don't come in and just, oh, well, at my old school, we did this. I don't know what you do, but we ought to do that. I don't care. I mean, like we're not, this isn't our first day. So, you know, we're not making massive changes all the time anymore. We're pretty settled, but we're willing to change if you can add value. We had a new coach last year who absolutely about, um, we ate. There was kind of a shift in his input became more often and stronger. And by gosh, I took it and we made some changes for how we did things, especially against a couple of opponents based on him. But he was here long enough to learn, you know, us and what we do and why we do it. And then he improved it. I think that's a challenge sometimes for coaches. You know, they're eager to tell you what they know. But I want to see that you care first about everybody and the program, the kids. And then I want to make sure that you're competent in, in, I guess, what we do already. And then I'll trust you to change or improve us. As we wrap up, one of the, one of the things I always like asking guests is just knowing what you know now. What advice would you have for yourself? If you could, if you could go back and, you know, talk to yourself as that first year coach, knowing what you know now, what advice would you have? Well, um, I, I feel like I was bold as a leader back then, but completely misguided and why, you know, I think I was just maybe misguided and so therefore maybe arrogant. So like I, I believe in bold conviction driven leadership. But I think my conviction was just in the wrong areas. And so I would want to clarify, um, values and clarify purpose and clarify. Mission and, and vision and I didn't have that at that time. I just was maybe overconfident, arrogant on, we're going to work harder than everyone else. So we'll automatically win. And because we worked hard, some of the other things happened accidentally. You know, we did grow close to each other because it worked together all the time. We, we did get better and we, we wanted to win badly. So we put in more work to learn and but really the foundation was, was poor and wrong. And so my leadership, um, when it was successful was probably just lucky. And, uh, I don't think I had done enough work on really knowing who I was and why we were doing things other than just trying to win Pete Carroll, who just retired. If you read his book, he talked about, you know, after he was fired by the jets. Um, I'm pretty sure it was the jets or the Patriots, one of those two. And he had a year off of coaching and he said it was the best thing that ever happened because he spent that whole time really just researching who he was, who he wanted to be. What he wanted to program to be about and he just hadn't put that much work into organization of his thoughts and, you know, how to think. And so his whole compete forever, all that, well, that, that was born out of the failure of getting fired, but it forced him to slow down and learn from others. Mine came after, you know, just a whole hum average first run of leading my own program, going back and being assistant and learning from a great leader. And that stimulated me to improve my leadership and really define who I am. So if I could have started not with my pro, I know way more about football now than I did that. No question about it. But if I could have started with all the things I've learned about culture and leadership, um, man, I would have been a much better coach for those kids who unfortunately, I just tried to work them to death and hopefully that meant we would win in the end. And sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. This has been absolutely fantastic. Coach Gilbert can't thank you enough for stopping by. It has been an absolute joy, um, just to see, you know, my alma mater, my hometown, the school that I poured my, you know, my heart and soul into for so long to see the changes that you've brought with the, the program that you've built. It's just, it's brought joy to my heart. So thank you for, for what you do for the young men in our community. Thank you for the, just the job that you do and the person that you are. And, you know, as always, thanks for, thanks for stopping by and joining us on the show today. Well, always an honor and just such a big believer in you and grateful for everything you've done for me and for us. So, um, I'm, I'm a believer. So if everyone out there listening, you know, I wouldn't spend my time on here. Um, if I didn't believe in what been teaches and, um, the mental training plan and what it's done for us. And it's just been so instrumental in everything we've accomplished and, and I'm just grateful. And so thank you and thanks for having me on. It's been an honor as usual. Thank you. If you found value in today's episode, please share it with a friend with a fellow coach that might join it. Or it might benefit from the discussion. If you're curious about taking your team's mental game to the next level, visit mtp.academy to explore our unique training programs that can help you train your entire team year round. If you've got questions about that, I would love to chat with you in the meantime. And until next time, make your plan and put it to work.