#11 De Gymnaste à Cliff Diveuse : plonger au-delà de la Peur - Madeleine Bayon

And if entrepreneurs were the athletes of innovation, two worlds at the same performance recipe, the same challenge, and yet two universes that hardly talk about it. Or too little. Hello to all and to all. I'm Benjamin Késair, an old player of international rugby, and co-founder of Team Park Ventures. The investment fund that wants to boost human capital, startups that build innovation in the climate and health of an impact. I have the chance to regularly meet entrepreneurs, athletes, investors, who inspire me deeply and push me to action. I want to share with you these discussions to make you enjoy and to put in light this link between entrepreneurship, sports and investment. Hello to all and welcome to a new episode of The Grand Game. I'm Benjamin Késair, an international and co-founder of Team Park Ventures. The investment fund which is the best of sports at the level at the service of positive innovation, especially in the climate and health. I have the chance to meet entrepreneurs, athletes and investors, all united by a very character, the fact that I never got it. And so the Grand Game is to pass these stories, these messages, to celebrate the fact of traversing the adversity, rather than celebrating everything that happens. Today I have a huge chance to receive Madeleine Bayon, an incredible athlete. First, Jim Nast, now Clive Diveuse, but also a personality, an extraordinary, extraordinary entrepreneur who inspires me enormously. Madeleine, very cool to have you with me today. Thank you for that. Thank you very much, I have so much to say. You arrive, you are freshly returned in France after a competition in Pouy. We will talk about your course, we will talk about your youth, we will talk about gymnastics, obviously, we will talk about your transition to Clive Diving. And can you just first do us a little bit because we have quite common history. Can you do us a little brief on your childhood, or are you born, how you grew up, and then immediately have a father who is put in the uterus. So it's that which separates the violins. Exactly. And from a violinist's mother. And yet, you have finished Clive Diveuse. I don't care about anything. A thing that I would like to delay. But can you do us a little bit your childhood course to make it a little more stable? Of course, so I am already a part of the same of a French family. I always do a lot of sports when I was young, but it's the gymnastics which took my heart very quickly. At 11 years old, I did my first championships in gymnastics, so everything went very quickly. At 12 years old, I was dominated in France to be in sports and to be able to actually reconcile this level and my studies. I did two championships in Europe, three championships in the world. I finalized it every time. Then at 17 years old, I stopped. I studied at King's College London and at Hong Kong University of International Management. I was dominated in Spain to work at Amazon Web Services as a commercial. At that time, I started to play as a hobby. I know that it's a hobby and become very, very fast. I was trained every day for three years and after three years, I had my first World Cup Competition in extreme play. And I became the first French player of the history to participate in the World Cup competition in Red Bull. You have a lot to find. You have to understand that you can imagine what you have to answer. That is to say, that you have to be very young at the age of 27. That's it. You have to be very young that is already exceptional, that is a lot of lives. That I would like to celebrate. But now you have told me that you are going too fast. If we come back just at the beginning, we will not go back too much to this particular person. But I know that you are very close to your parents. And it's funny every time, because we have to say, we will talk about it later, but we will continue to talk about it together and we will talk about it later. So, don't you think that is to be useful as a violinist? And what can you just say? I imagine that their excellence in their craft, their precision of gestures, their taste, their discipline, their training. And is that something that you have noticed very young? Yes. Without knowing that it would be applied in the gymnastic, or in the Clive diving, or in your home zone. But is that something that quickly has been, how to say? We have planted the grass in the importance of the discipline. And of being meticulous in what we do? Yes, completely. And I think that, finally, Dax is going to have the Clive diving and the classical music. But in fact, it's still a world where, at the highest level, you need a lot of work. So, I know that I have seen very, very young, but my parents, a lot of work, the weekends, the holidays, etc. And they are not complaining. It's not a problem. But in fact, to reach a level of excellence, there is no choice. There is no shortcut, etc. The talent does not suffice. And I think that also the passion, in fact, to be excellent in what we do. You have to love. You have to love. You have to love. Don't worry about the competitions. You have to love every day to go to work. And me, I am a father. I am very happy to come back from vacation. Because he is going to go to work. And what? And I think that, if this value of doing things well, at home, we do not have to do things halfway. Whether we did it or not. Whether we did it well. And so, I also did a long time ago, etc. But there is a moment where my parents say, "Well, if you stop, there is no problem. But if you continue, you have to do things well." So I really grew up with these values of working hard, of doing things well. And above all, what do we do? Because otherwise, it is too hard to work hard if we do not like what we do. And this taste of travel, or in any case, the fear of the idea of traveling, it comes to you, you think? Well, I think clearly when we are abroad and that we have a double culture, so I am very young. I speak French Portuguese. We already have an open mind. We know that there are two ways to see the world. The borders are not really limited. Because it is... It's not the end of the language already. Exactly, not the end of the language. So it's true that you see, for me, it has never been a limit. And so I was telling you, when I asked myself the question, "Well, how do I do to continue to learn sports and study?" I am going to France. It is me who is first in the decision to go to France, all of a sudden, without my parents. And it was not a problem. I told myself, "Well, we will see the problems in place." Well, I was not afraid of... In any case, I try not to anticipate what I am afraid of. Wait, let's take a little bit of that. So you already did it in the Portugal gym, in a club, in a club, in your school. I don't know. Exactly. So in the club, and I was already in the Portuguese team. So in the national team, I did my best, but in the world, in 11 years. But at that time, I trained 5 hours a day. I went home at 10 am. I didn't have time to sleep. So there, at the moment, it was no longer walking with the school. After school, that's beautiful. After school, exactly. And agi-mystic, acrobatic. Acrobatic. Exactly. Often, I saw a lot of photos and videos, it was a little pinch, that we were in the air for a bit. Exactly. It was the old game, we started in the air, so we were three girls. But here is the old game. It was a big responsibility, because Basel did acrobatics, etc. And so the younger of the group, more or less. Exactly. Because you have a little lighter, the younger one. The younger one, a lot of restrictions, of weight, etc. That's the central piece of the group. So it's not a Olympic sport, unfortunately. And so, for my parents, I always really took advantage of the studies. Once again, you have to do things well. So it was very important for me. So they told me, it was a solution to continue the agi-mystic. And the studies, because my friends in Portugal were twice. And that was not an option for my parents. And so here I have the chance to be able to go to France. They already know me very well, because in the field of the world, I was in competition against the French. And then I changed to the edges. And so it's you who decided to take the country back in France? Exactly. In a study, was it the case or the equivalent of the INCEP? Exactly. So it was in the crepes. So I spent two years already in the arena and then two years in the table. So at the beginning, I was going to see my parents, maybe every two or three weeks, and I will do years and years of less and less. And I think at the age of 16 or 17, I see them every four months. Because we didn't have a weekend. We trained the Saturdays. So if I wanted to go see it, it was necessary. It meant to do the training of the Saturdays. And it was very mean. So... I know that you can have a nice time with your training training. It's very complicated. It was very difficult. It was very difficult. It was a bit of an end-to-end-go at the time of the week. Exactly. It was like the... I told you, I would have liked to put the Black holes. And finally, you could say, how many matches we can play in a season. They started to say, "First, we need X, a number of weeks of the year." And then, we will see how it will be. But you are a bit like that. It's about doing your week. First, first, here are my training plans, which are non-negotiable. And then, we will try to complete the rest. Tell me if I forgot something. Really, because it's a CV that is already very expensive. Four times in France, two times in Europe, two times in Europe, two times in the world, with a seventh place in the modern year in 2014. Exactly. That's it. So, anyway, and you become at 12, five world teams in your discipline. Yes. I have to walk around the world. It's incredible. Yes. But the reverse of that, is of 12 to 17 years, two weeks of vacation, parents, with 30 hours of training in a week. Exactly. It's like a rhythm which is braking you touched the finger, something which is hard, you felt it, perhaps, you, as it is old-fashioned. Yes. Maybe the look of the coach, or the look of the coach, which told you to look at each gram that you take, because it could have a significant consequence. So, already six young, perhaps, perhaps not the preparation, but in any case, your relationship with the nourishment which will obviously be complicated, this stress which is not very, so I know that it is carried in a sportive ambition, which is that of excellence. But which can also be enough, for someone as young, how do you take all that? This load of training, this stress, this pressure of being religious, potentially, your relationship with your weight? Yes. In fact, it was very hard. It's a sport which is very, very demanding, very young. I think that my childhood was, well, I did not have childhood or adolescence for 12 years. I was already going to have thinking of adults, thinking of responsibilities, thinking about my weight, etc. I will come back to the passion, I was passionate, I would love to train. And I think it's really important, because competitions are almost 10-20% of my sport. So I would love to train. I tried to do it for myself, but they never pushed me. So they always accompanied me. But I was going to stop, they said, "Okay, okay, no problem." So I never had an external pressure in any case of my parents. So I always did it for myself. And also, I think that this maturity, I don't know how it came to me, but I came to see that it all belonged to the gymnastic world. And it was not the real world. Because it's true, that we can go back to time and stay in this kind of bubble, or here is our body. We are defined by our weight, we are defined by our performance, and that can be very heavy. And I think that I just had a little bit of recoil, here is the fact of having parents, someone who was not at all in my sport, who did it, who did it, that didn't define me entirely. But here it is still super hard. And on the other hand, it is what has forced my character today. I have the pressure almost, that I would never see something hard because being a child and having to work so hard without reliance, without a repo, etc. It's super hard. So on the other hand, after that, I have the impression that life can't be easier. But you have a very hard time with some of the players particularly in charge, but you still have some vacances. And so you are talking about this pleasure of training, which is obviously essential to wake up early, wake up early, start to recover, do not panic, look at a positive attitude, but without taking the knife into place if it was a hard time, you are talking about this distance with your parents, and it is important to be close to each other. How do we do? You are forced to have blous' cuts to be the equivalent of an internage and you are thinking, you stay the weekend. When you did not have training, you did not have a moment of absolute solitude, really hard if young when you were in Krebs in France. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And I think all three or four of me, I was going to stop. So yes, yes, I have a lot of very hard moments. Then, so already, we had a good team of sports, and we knew everything that there was a debate. It was normal. If we had to accept that, I think that people, maybe from the outside, or from the sports, they would say, "Oh, they are obviously passionate by their sports. Every day, they are very happy in training. It is not necessarily the case." And it's okay, because in fact, it is super hard. Of course. After me, I did not see myself in a classical life of colleagues, to have just schools. Because in fact, the gym allowed me to surpass my limits, to progress. And I think that at the beginning, at least in fact, I am really passionate to progress. That is the same thing from sports. That is what makes me passionate. And therefore, to see that, well, I worked hard. And that I would improve myself. Every year, the classes, you are more difficult and so on. That was... It made me... It made me... It made me a lot. And... So... So there, we came back to the passion of knowing why we did it. And in fact, the alternative to stop was not a real option. In fact, because... I do not want... I like, in fact, this thing that it is hard. I think that... Because after all, we are good. Well, I managed to do it on my own. And each time, we feel stronger. If... If this thing is easy, well, I think it doesn't matter. What I read is that already 6 young people, sometimes you can't tell. You know, often, you come back to the question if the satisfaction only comes from the final result. Yes. Well, it will be long. Yes. And learn to love the grind is really to appreciate the travel, to accept, to appreciate this intermediate step, which is in your daily life. Yes. Your progress, your training, your way of passing. And, more quickly, you fall in love with this. The fastest, you can enjoy your inner life. Yes. With satisfaction, in short of roots. Because if you just wait for a medal or the world champion, it's a very long trip. Very long. Although, at that time, you did not tell. But you said you had equipment, so other athletes around you. Yes. There was a bit of a circle not of vulnerability, but of ability to express these emotions, their stress, this tension, these doubts. Yes. Completely. Well, we were... we were always very tired, etc. We had the courage, the training, etc. Then, I think the reality of the gym was our peak of the car, it was very early. So, we had to do the training. Right now, what? It's like the teenagers, the basketballers, etc. They had a little more time. Six months, they could maybe recover better, etc. But, I think, also, what united us was this difficulty. In fact, because of our sport, everyone had different sports. But there, where we found ourselves, it was... Well, yes, it's hard, but in fact, you don't have the choice. We were going to the training. And I think, too, to add something that made me laugh. I could use a little bit of a word. But me, I would never victimize myself. That is, I would never say, "Oh, no. I forgot to do that." "Oh, I have to do that." I always had the choice, and, as I said, at the same time, my parents never forced me. And, in fact, "Well, at first, you say, "Well, it's me, who chose to be in this situation." Well, you can't let them go, because you have the choice, to get out. And so, I was always very... I always felt responsible. That's it. If you want to get out of this situation, I can get out. And... And so, that's it to say that, in effect, I think, it united us to go through these periods. When we had a lot of competitions, it's not always easy with the races, etc. We were very close. And it was great. There are no meadows for excuses. Exactly. Yeah, that's it. There's no help for the... I love this question. "Pick, you quote." Because I find it very true. It's very true. It comes back to another point. So, I have another question. But... You were talking about this role of your parents who were in support. Yes. Who wanted to help you. But... But who doesn't force you? I loved this... I heard a quote from Yann Torp, an Australian manager, who said, "But how do we get there?" And also, young, having an important training training. Well, it's funny. He talked about his relationship with his dad. And he's not a day away from me. He was eight years old. When he started to become serious, maybe ten years old, I was throwing myself in front of him. And he's not the same. He said, "Listen. I would accompany you on all the races you want. All the training. All the spaces. I would love to be with you. I would love to be with you. But I would never wake you up." And you see, it was his point to say, "I'm there for everything you want, but I will never take my hand." If you don't work, if you don't have a driver's license, if you don't want to do it. Yes. I can't help you. And I think that's very simple. Without any doubt, I don't know it at all. But without any doubt, if you discuss the relationship between Rafael Nadal and his uncle, it was really that. Yes, I think you have coaches who will push you, to pick you, etc. But if you don't have someone who wants to be with you, who wants to be with you, who wants to be with you, and who loves you, who takes pleasure, it's completely impossible. Yes. It's impossible. If we come back on the Acrobatics Gymnastics, I had seen a thing that I found. "Do you have a technique?" I would leave it to you. I would give you an example. "Do you have a technique, even physical?" Because you were a bit the last lion of the chain. And even in the construction of the chains, I imagine that maybe they could position their hands and then you would arrive after, and I would tell you everything. And what do you have? A means, almost physical, to build this confidence, to be sure that you know that everyone is almost vocal. There were two things, there was an idea, what they said, "Pret", I don't know, that they didn't use terms to give you a rhythm. And I gave you an example. I had listened to one of the old patrons of the Gymnastics, who talked about how the chain of commands, or in the case of the chain of men of the Gymnastics, to go into a room where there were terrorists, and they put everything in their head. And the last one, when he was ready, when he was charging his weapon, when he was really ready, he put his hand on the shoulder of the other. And when the other is ready, he felt it. So this time, he didn't need to turn his head. He put his hand in front of him. And so the first one, that he was all done in front of the chain, started with a hand that he put on him. He knew that there were seven others in the back, who did their checks, who were ready, who gave their confidence. And apparently, it was a very, very important moment, because he felt that everyone was ready, it was not just at the level, he is absolutely certain, we are the last lion of the chain, that all those who are behind him are ready. You see, there is Philippe Spangaro, it was his podcast, that I found really brilliant. Do you have something like that? Maybe a vocal command? And so that you really, because you, to get in the air and make triple loops, you have to be sure that there is not one who is the worst place, or a hand-made liason, well, it doesn't have dramatic consequences. And do you have something like that? Well, I already have two aspects. So we already had a little different physical training, where at the moment, in the training group, but at the moment, we had individual training. And there, we had individual training, but my coat-to-coat, and I think it was super important to see that me, I did my job, and that me, to see that she did their job, so that we were all quite informed to then do our job together. So I think that, of course, it is a bit of a confidence, that we all work together for when it comes to work. And then the second thing is that, so my coat-to-coat, she will always catch me. And sometimes, I did nothing, and that means that I arrived on her, and she took away the blue ones. So she did everything she needed to catch me. Sometimes, I was walking after her, and so on, because I did nothing, but what was certain, is that she never let me fall. As soon as she did it herself. And so that, well, the fact that, even if she was doing bad things, then we were briefed, and she was too beautiful this sentence. How can you be certain of that? How can you have zero doubt in your head that, as you said, and that, frankly, in your eyes, she will never let me fall. So, how can you be certain? Yes, so, already, the experience, because she never, because she never did it, so it can happen one day, but even when, for example, we learned figures, we did them in the far, so we had a kind of body, or I learned the figure. And even when I had the bodies, she would catch me, and she would hurt me to catch me. So, she didn't even need it, because... Because I was on an attack, because I had the bodies, so the next one, she could have caught me a little bit with the bodies. So, in fact, even in situations that were not necessarily, I was not in danger, well, she, she, she, she, she would still... Never. In 10 years of gymnastics. No. 5 years at the highest level. No, never. Never, never. Never, never. Never, never. And... And sometimes, I think that there was this desire, "Well, go ahead, I'll do an hour." "Well, give me more time." And in fact, because on the one hand, it was me who had the biggest responsibility of being alert. But, anyway, they also accept that their responsibility was to catch my ears. And I think that was the right balance. And then, we trained together for years, and years together, when we formed a new trio, a new partnership, before making a competition, it could take a year. In training together, to precisely learn what to know, we started with very easy things, impossible to do difficult things, with people you don't know. Because, in fact, as you said, you don't know what's going to happen. So, in fact, also before forming a partnership, well, we trained for a very long time, on foundations, etc. we went through a little bit, and that's how we built the confidence. Yes. But now, you make me wonder about a subject that we already discussed all the two, which is my question of confidence. It's the trust-man-date, which is the credibility and the human heat, the credibility. It's everything you wrote. I want to see my co-equipers train. I want to train. I want to do their games, and see that. Of course. But then, it's the human heat. This ability to be able to share things, to learn what to know, to get rid of. And that I totally understand. It's to live together. Have you ever had co-equipers who were not in your dreams? No. In addition, that's what we do. In addition, we do different things. At the border of the border, everyone had to eat, etc. So, yes, we were... We were... We were watching that our team was doing a job. And there were... There were really many roles, very defined. You never were happy. And there was never a happy thing that became very happy. No. So, you can have the transition very happy, which is very happy. When you grew up, etc. I was always busy, because I loved the acrobatics, I wanted to go there, so I found another way to stay a little longer. With the sun. But yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And, okay. Well, listen. I don't know, at the moment, the most difficult moment of your career of gymnasts before we talk about the rest of the team. So, I don't know if we can tell you that it's the career, but it was the dream. I think of my career. I think I've put two years at least one meter. Because... Wait. Just wait. Do you know what you're looking for? How do you take the decision? So, I'll take care of it, because I don't want to get bored of it. And then we had... Well, I wanted to have a life. And then it was not at the Olympics. It was worth it. I didn't have much time to move on. So, I'll take care of my career with the champs of the world in France at the Valois in 2014, at the end of the year. And then, I had a bit of a project to go to the South as a career transition. It was going to be even more simple. A perfect team. It's going to be a new year, a new year. It's going to be a new year. If not... So, I had planned it. It took me six months, I had planned it to stop. You'll have announced it. You'll have announced it. You'll have announced it. Everyone knew it. And, for now, it was a monstery brutality. Because, in fact, the day after tomorrow, we're on a classical stage, on tour with my mother, etc. And, in fact, I built all my personality around the gymnastic. So, I was the gymnast, I signed autographs, and small girls. Well, I was there. I was on the mountain, on the mountain of the world. And then, the day after tomorrow, I was more than one person. And I wasn't good at anything. Well, that's what I was saying. So, in fact, I was totally deconstructed to build myself to know, in fact, who I was next to the gymnastic. I said to myself, "If I'm good at gym, and I don't do gym, I'm good at nothing." In fact, no, it's all my qualities, my resilience, etc. that I had done that I was good at gym. I could apply it to everything I wanted in my life. But, it took me a while to understand what I wanted to do in my life, what I liked, etc. So, it was very, very hard. And, at the same time, it allowed me to pose. I think that there are not many young people who do that as well as young people. It's a crisis of 50 years. But, in fact, what I want to do in my life, what is important, the results, etc. And I also see what kind of look I had on my face. Was it the fourth or the fifth place? Or was it rather the training, the moments that you see? So, I was a little reduced for two or three years, but it was super hard. It was super hard in my mind. It allowed me to talk just because of you because you were talking about the future. But, when I saw you did a post, it wasn't long before this network. You were talking about that. And I think it's great because you read the language, you try to be a leader, for example. You say, "I'm crossing." "You're going very well now." Maybe for some other gymnasts who are going to cross the same thing, you even said, "Your relationship with your body was complicated." Because, in any case, you didn't have an adolescent life, or a standard life. And, in any case, it's good. In fact, you really lived a woman's moment. That's right, that's right, that's right. It's hard to accept. How did you do to cross this test? Did you have a psychological support or do you really try to share that maximum with your parents? How did you do to cross this test? Yes. So, I always was very open to have psychologists, in the team of France, because we had no choice. So, I continued a suicide. In fact, I saw almost all my life. So, that helped me a lot. My parents were very fond of time. And that's what I think is really important. I think that these are the only parents in the world who have proposed me to do a good job, that I took a sabbatical year after my terminal, to reflect on what I wanted to do, because, normally, I took ten years of sabbatics to see if I was outside. I needed to reflect on what I wanted to do, etc. So, I took the time to reflect on what I wanted to do, etc. I also followed new friends, from sports, from gymnastics, who, precisely, didn't see me as a gymnast, but as a gymnast. I needed to do a lot of work to see that there were people who were interested in me, while I was more gymnast. And I think that's it. I take the time to get back to the project, because I'm someone who has a lot of energy. It's just that I don't know where to put this energy. And I think it's a bit like, maybe during an entrepreneur, because we went to the sabbatics, it was finally delivered. And, in fact, there are all of them, they say, "What?" And so, I have a lot of chances that my parents tell me to take the time. So, I go to the England and work for a year, even though it's been a year that I have something to do. So, I worked in a gymnast, in a magazine, I learned English, etc. And here I was supposed to reflect on what I wanted to do. And when did you go to Hong Kong? It was before? It was during my studies. In fact, I did my training, I did a year in England for the sabbatics, and then I started my studies in London. Okay. And then, I went to Hong Kong. Yes, it's time to go back to Hong Kong. It's still a bit more simple. Yes, it's quite crazy. And so, after Hong Kong, you're a manager in Madrid? Exactly. So, you're a manager in Madrid, from AWS, from your aspirations, from this new purpose that you've been looking for? Yes. And finally, how do you find it, and how do you decide to... So, I started my management studies. I didn't know what exactly I wanted to do as a job. And so, I decided to test everything. So, I did all the tasks, I worked in part-time, all the time, in startups, and all to really put my hands on the field. And finally, I said to myself, "I'd like to test a big tech box." So, I did a task at Amazon Maps Service, which is the special part of Amazon. In Madrid, I loved it, etc. And so, I went in full-time. I had a manager in Madrid, because they had big offices for their full-time jobs. So, I still work for the French market, but since then, I spanked. And so, I came, and I said, "Super, you're waiting for your goal." And then, I started working, and then, I realized, "Now what?" And in addition, it wasn't easy, because it was working. And less of the aspects that I loved at Amazon, it was my colleagues' work, etc. And so, in fact, during a few months, in my work, I worked a lot. I think, in my head, there were two types of people, who did nothing. And those who worked too much, because there wasn't their colleagues to tell them, "Well, let's take a day off." So, I started to work a lot, and I said to myself, "Where are you going to stay?" And so, I said to myself, "Well, do a sport to get out of your work a little bit." So, I started working the most. So, it looks very weird, but it's true, when you do gymnastics, it's funny, it's a real moment for the body, etc. And I had a thing, "Oh, maybe I'll try it again." So, I started to write an adult course, the course of the evening. And, in fact, I loved it. And what I loved was to find, well, already flying in the air, doing aerosols and everything, but also to progress. And in fact, I would always be in the end of the month. The coach told me, "Well, do what you want. Take care of yourself. You can run and jump, just like that on the platform." And I said, "Oh, but I don't like it at all. For me, what I like is progress. So, is it because you can correct me my technique, etc.?" And then the coach said, "Oh, there. Okay." And what did I do? And, in fact, at the end of the month, I started talking with this coach. And I said, "Well, I want to take over the competition, is it because you think that I can reach a global level?" And he told me, "Listen to me, please. It's hot. It's really hot. But, in fact, since you did sports at a level, do you know what it is? Do you know the sacrifices? So, with that, I think, "Yes." And so, I just need that a guy, a pro, an expert, says, "You can do it." And then, I trained every day. Until I arrived. Every day. Every day. On your budget, on your time, on your... On my budget, so I had to organize myself. So, I was super proud to train before my work in my field. I started by doing the physical preparation in my field. I did the same thing every day. And then I started to work. And the evening, I went to the pool. And I would have several months, etc. I was a little more structured. So, I went to the gym. I had a program, etc. I showed myself, "Yeah, three or four hours a day." I didn't take part in the summer with my friends. So, at the beginning, I said, "No." And I said, "But why do I have to go?" And they wanted to do the things red-bullar that comes from this sport. And I never flinch under the pressure. I never told myself, "Yeah, in fact, it's a little difficult." Because, in fact, until you arrive from objects like this, it's ridiculous. Because you're a person, there is nothing. You say to everyone, "No, I can't do that because I'm training when you're a person." So, you have to go through this moment in English, a little bit of cringe, you know? Where people are. "Yeah, what's going on?" And, in fact, and in fact, I'd love to have this kind of "objective in Athens on a dream." That's what he would also do every morning. And as I said, I'd love to work very hard. And in addition, I was able to progress because I was so far away that there was everything to do. But you had a base, as you said. I had a base. I was thinking that when you said you're a "voltageous" training. Yes. It's famous songs, I've seen in your videos for a long time. Exactly. The song you use when you arrive. That's it. It was a good base. Just before we get into the details, sorry, because I think there are people who don't know about it. But can you paint a bit of the picture of Clive Diving? Yes. How does it work? It doesn't look like Red Bull. The name of the stage. The name of me, by the name of Pro. I don't know. I don't know. You gave us the environment of Clive Diving. Yes. So the Clive Diving, where the extreme play, is a classic play. So the classic play is three meters and ten meters. The Clive Diving for women is twenty meters and the men are twenty-seven meters. So we're in the double of the areas. And by Ninder. And by Ninder. Exactly. Because this has to be in natural places. So it can be extreme cases. Or they build temporary platforms. It can be anywhere in the scene, anywhere in the sea, etc. And so it's a very recent sport. So it's Red Bull that started to bring this sport. So there is a world circuit which is the most prestigious. Where there are competitions. Through the world and the object of Red Bull. I'm going to put the plungers in different conditions with a lot of challenges and see if the performance remains stable in all these conditions. Since a few years, we have also in the Federation of Quatic Sport. So in Interpol, so we also have a little bit of the world, etc. I would say we have a dozen of parents' competitions everywhere. Absolutely. Everywhere in the world. And in fact, the difficulty is that it is extremely afraid. Because it is very dangerous. In fact, we arrive in the water almost 80 kilometers. So if you work, it's like a car accident on the national. You can do very badly or not. Yes or no? It depends on where you are. And then there are wind, there are waves, etc. And so again, it's much more challenging mentally than the classic plunger. Because the classic plunger is in the pool. So you have competitions around the world. But the pool is probably the same. There, it changes every time, etc. So you really have to adapt. And in fact, there will be 20 women in the world and a 30 men who do this sport. There is very little amateur, because in fact you can not jump badly before putting it. And in fact, technically, if you take all the jails they would be much better than us. But in fact, I made the jails before putting it. But I never put it in my life. So in fact, the barrier to the entrance is the mental. And I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating that beyond the physical training, etc. that this kind of huge mental game, and you, against you. Because the only reason why we can reach a plunger is because I am not saying the good things at the moment. Because extreme conditions, it is difficult. But the platform can't be crossed. Well, there is no such as, for example, a dancer. It depends on the wave, etc. There, my plunger, it's me who decides exactly what I do. So if I do wrong, it's because of me. It's because of that. Well, you say, I think, I don't think I would have the courage to get up to 20 meters. But if I would have, I would have the courage to get up to 20 meters. I would be terrorized by the order of becoming paranoid. No, the plunger will crack. The trick has been misunderstood. I'm going to be afraid. You're going to think of parasites, which ultimately, what you are saying in saying the only reason for which my plunger can be lost is my fault. It is a consequence of a psychological work that is already completely consequent, that allows you to remove the noise, remove everything that is not in your control, and focus only on what you are already doing. You do face-forward, you have a lot of work and psychological work and on the command of mortals, even gymnasts, very, very high levels or a foot, as you said, which technically are even more than you, even though it holds well. Well, I would like to touch a little bit all the constructions. It's completely crazy. To give you an example, the people in the Red Bull competition that wants to go up on the platform must go up with Arne. Wait, let's start. So the people who are not plungers, who want to go up on the platform of competition Red Bull just to go see, they have to go up with Arne. Of course, of course. Of course. But there is wind. Sometimes, when I talk about it, I hope not to spoil one of your anecdotes, but there are noises. It is high level of failure. It will obviously be that it is very complicated. Well, I have to go. Yes, yes, yes. And I'm not going to do it all alone. I'm not going to do it. Arne, I'm sure you know that. Well, now you have to take a break, but you don't have it. Well, in any case. And what is it? You may find the most difficult sport you can choose. In which you already had important bases. Yes. You may be looking for absolute adversity. In a universe in which you know that you had predisposition and bases and a story that allowed you to excel. In this adversity. Did you go to find the most important challenge possible? Yes. In fact, what is incredible in this sport, I love to go out of my comfort zone. It is that every day, we are afraid. That is to say, there is not a moment where after ten years of experience, it is good, you are used to it. No, no, no, no. Every time. There is still a little thing in life where every time you do something, you will repeat it many times. Well, you almost the same adrenaline level, the same level of weight, your comfort zone. It is still dark. And I, who loves to progress, it is perfect. Because it is at the end almost. But you have the cult of this fear. We talked about it all many times. It is often the question, "How do you do not have fear?" And you answer, it is to say, "No, no, no. My goal is to jump in and be afraid. It is to succeed to jump in and be afraid. I do not want to do abstractions of this fear. And that is an element that was very important. Can you tell us about your routine, your way of speaking to yourself, about your timing, tell us about your routine when you move to the platform? Well, when I arrive on the platform, I will look at the board and I accept everything that makes me very scared. So the waves, it is a lot too much. Why do I do that, etc.? I leave one minute where I will really embrace, accept all these emotions. Accept them. Because, in fact, it is the moment, it is normal. In fact, these emotions are very rational. It is very high, it is very scared. So the waves push them, I accept them. And once I accept them, I concentrate on my plunge. So before I concentrate on my plunge, I will do very simple exercises but to calm down my nervous system. And then I will really think about my technique. In fact, I will think about what I can control myself. And that I think it is the most important and even in the view of the app. What can I do in my plunge? So the waves, the wind, all that. I have no impact on what I can do. So I concentrate on my plunge. I can't reflect too much at once. So I focus on what I want to do, but my technical points, so that's how to relax, etc. And once I am ready, I will count to four. Because if I count to four, in fact, I reflect to the end. So here I do three, two, one. And I swim. Sometimes I can do two, three counts, because there is a big wave, a big wave, etc. And also, by the way, the point I forgot is that I will try to catch my shoulders like if I was my own leader, my little brother. I can tell you in my head, "Come on, Madden." But often, in the videos, I tell him "Come on, Madden." "Come on, Madden." "You can do it." "You can do it." And I will repeat it. But ten times at the same time, I am crazy. And really, I am a mature leader, in fact. And I know I can do it. And then, like that, it gives me this energy a little bit of the American psychology. "You can do it." And I count to four, three, and it's part of it. And this process, you build it alone. That is, you always have a support of psychologists. But it is almost more of the mental preparation, a little more sporty than simply a personal balance around the psychology class. This routine, you build it alone. It's with your coach class. It's important with others. I think you're quite... You talked to me. It's pretty nice. Maybe you can talk about the relationship to the competition. Yes. To the competition Tris. You talked about a relationship to Frater... Yes. Fraternette, for the children, you will understand what "Sisterhood" is. Yes. Between you, because you have to recognize the ultra complexity that you know, from the moment you're already in the competition, before being with others, and with a lot of training. Yes. How did you find this process? It's an incredible community, because I think that the fact that it's an extremely dangerous sport, we don't want the others to get angry, it means going to the hospital. We already have that. There is this respect. In fact, we know that it's very emotionally. So we respect a lot. And so really, I have many things that have more experience, that have always been accompanied when we arrive. For example, we have new places, very difficult, with rocks, etc. Well, the people with more experience will say, "I'm ready to play like this, I'm ready, I'm ready, etc." And in fact, they give us advices, a little bit about whether they are ready or not. And then we will push. I'm going to push each one of them. I'm going to test what works for me. And then I'm also going to give advices. Then the most important thing is that the routine is less. And then you have to test it. For me, this routine, I also do it in training. When I go to seven meters, I don't necessarily need it, because I'm not afraid. But in fact, if I do a new routine for the first time in competition, well, my body will be disabled. It's too new. So in fact, I'm going to do it in training, so that this routine is something familiar. In fact, and that's also a routine. It's a little bit of familiarity in this environment as well as style, etc. And then to come back to the competition. We support each other a lot. I think that the fact that it is not a sport of dual life, so we don't each have one after the other. But I don't have the other ones. Exactly. Well, that's it. We hope that we can be better than the best. So here it is. It's really incredible. As you said. To put the context down, you're also, during... 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