11/12/26: Thomas Massie Says Trump Terrified Of Epstein Files, Massie On Potential 2028 Run

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronic store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. This is Martha Stewart. Have you ever started a new tradition? Here's a hint. Do it with Lenox. Lenox has always meant timeless holiday beauty, and the Lenox Space Village is the perfect holiday gift. Imagine ginger from a Georgian townhouse or pepper from your favorite Swiss chalet. Lenox has brought timeless beauty and quality to tables and homes for generations. Baking together, sharing recipes, decorating, suddenly simple pleasures become part of your holiday story forever. When you give a gift that lasts beyond the holidays, it's an amazing feeling. When you give Lenox, you just might start a new tradition. Discover the full collection at Lenox.com slash Spice Village. If you run a business in this community, your next customers are already listening, and we're here to help you speak to them. Just tell iHeartMedia what you want to accomplish, and we'll help create an advertising plan built around your goals. Whether you want to reach new customers, increase sales, or bring more people through your doors, we can help. Getting started is easy. Just visit iHeartAdvertising.com today. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. Had a busy day? Don't have time to listen to the show? Catch up on breaking points with our free daily newsletter. You'll get our breakdown of every daily story. And lots of links in your inbox every day. Head over to BreakingPoints.com. You can sign up for the newsletter at the top for free today. Good morning. Guess who called in sick? None other than Sagar and Jetty. We're hoping that the whole Jetty family is feeling okay, but I'm happy to be here, Crystal, because we've got a big show. You don't have to hide the truth. Last week, you went to the re-education camp. This week, he's at the re-education camp. It's okay. You turned out okay. So, he'll be fine. See if you notice a difference today after Crystal waterboarded me. All of last Friday. So, stay tuned for that to see if Emily's vibe is a little different after a little, you know, retraining, we'll say. It was an enhanced interrogation. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's fine. I've been told that's fine. Blue wave. Go, Hakeem Jeffries. Anyway, we have a really gigantic show. Thomas Massey is going to join us in studio for a lengthy exit interview of sorts. But, of course, he hasn't exited yet. He has just achieved the number of signatures he needs to bring a new Epstein-Files Accountability Act to the floor. So, we're going to talk about that, Hegseth, all the things. So, we'll get into all of that with him. We have a good long time with him. So, really looking forward to sharing that with all of you guys. We just recorded it. Also, a bunch of stuff going on on the Republican side. Trump is threatening the Democrats with prosecution if they investigate too hard. Some new inside details about just how unpopular J.D. Vance is, I guess, with a bunch of people in the Republican Party as he positions himself for a potential presidential run. Garrison Lovely is going to join us to break down what is probably the biggest news. I mean, it has to be the biggest news of the day in terms of the American and global economy. Jensen Huang, we just got the news, has now resigned from NVIDIA. He was going to be forced out. This comes after revelations of one affair with an alleged Chinese spy and another affair that was just revealed yesterday with an NVIDIA HR executive. So, this is the most important company in the world. He is a sort of singular figure. There really was no succession plan. They had all the eggs and all of the global economy eggs in the basket of Jensen Huang and he is now out. Truly. And breaking news throughout the day yesterday that we're going to cover for everyone. It's actually still breaking as of this morning. So, we have a lot to get to on that front. Indeed. We're also going to talk to Garrison about the intersection of the AI fight and the leadership fight because both on the Democratic Party side, both Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, very cozy with industry so we'll break down those ties and what that will mean and then we're sticking with the tech focus here. Alex Karp, he's always been a Democrat. He sees Palantir as being progressive. He thinks Trump went too far on immigration and he had told him so privately. Now, he's just coming forward with it but he was saying this behind the scenes and his primary commitment is actually to economic justice. Emily, I don't know if you knew that. I have so many thoughts on this. I'm so glad we're covering it. We yesterday had a moment where we were like, we're doing this right. Yeah, we are. It's a crazy story. It's a crazy story. We're literally doing the like, we were always blue AI song meme. Yeah, and you know what? There is some truth to it which actually makes, like there's some truth to the fact that he's been a Democrat which made the 2024 decisions that came out of Palantir and Karp all the more, in retrospect, I mean, hilarious and gross. I mean, they put out a literal like Western civilization manifesto. Remember that whole thing? Took out a full page ad. We stand with Israel, Palantir. So, a lot going on there. A lot going on. A lot of very obvious things. A lot of things going on there, actually. Well said. Yes. And by the way, if you want access to all of this type of coverage, why are you not subscribed over at BreakingPoints.com yet? I mean, you get entered into the fish raffle that was going on last month, but this month we're still running the free trial, BreakingPoints.com. That's where you can go to get a premium subscription to the show. And remember, that lets you watch the full show in your inbox early every day. That's really the way that we do the show is it's meant to be consumed. So, if you want to check that out, you also get a free trial and you also get access to our AMAs and all kinds of other great stuff, Crystal. We're working on something new for the premium subscribers. I'll just leave it there since it's not all the details aren't all ironed out yet, but it is in response to the thousands of you that signed up in order to get access to the extra live stream after the election coverage and the live stream the next morning about the election coverage. So, we took that in and are, you know, incorporating some new elements into our coverage, let's say. We're really excited about it. Yes. So, thank you, everyone. Let's get to today's show. Progressive's Accident Response can contact emergency services if you're in a major accident because the only thing worse than someone you love being in an accident is not being able to help them. Progressive is here to help when you can't. So, get peace of mind knowing your loved ones are protected with Progressive's Accident Response. Learn more at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Limited availability in California. Driver is responsible for emergency and towing charges not covered by the policy. Coverage subject to policy terms and conditions. Here's a hint. Do it with Lenox. This year, Lenox will make the holidays something truly special. How exciting it is every year to unbox all of our favorite decor and smile at the memories. The Lenox Spice Village is the perfect holiday gift for someone you love, including yourself. Calling back to the originals from 1989, now you can share the memories and the flavors of the season. It's a charming collection of hand-painted houses. Imagine ginger from a Georgian townhouse or pepper from your Swiss chalet. Baking together, sharing recipes, decorating, suddenly simple pleasures become part of your holiday story. Forever. With Lenox, collect those moments every year or treat your favorite someone. Remember, when you give a gift that lasts beyond the years, on the holidays, it's an amazing feeling. Discover the full collection at lenox.com slash spicevillage. This is Jacob Goldstein from What's Your Problem? Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. That's software overload. Odoo is the all-in-one platform that replaces them all. Odoo is the all-in-one platform CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's odoo.com. We're joined now once again by Congressman Thomas Massey here in studio. Congressman, thank you so much for coming back. Great to be here. Well, the President of the United States, as usual, is, attacking you. We want to start with this first clip. This is going to be A1 for the control room. He called you a loser recently over your effort to impeach Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth. Let's take a listen. Stand by, Pete Hegseth, if he's impeached. Yeah, I'll stand by. So even if he's impeached, you're going to keep him as your defense secretary. We won two wars. He was in charge. We all won. I had great people. You what? Massey says that he's carried out a lot. Massey's a loser. Just like you're a loser at CNN. Just like your ratings are a loser. Massey is a loser. Stone cold loser. So no particular surprise that he sees you as a loser for trying to impeach his secretary of war. Stone cold loser. That's pretty good. Now, there were reports he was thinking of actually firing Hegseth. Is there a world in which the impeachment may have saved Hegseth by galvanizing Trump to his defense? I think that works for Trump, but I don't think it's going to work for his cabinet. I think this was a near miss. They say, if you shoot at the king, don't miss. I've seen the King get winged or got shot shot and not make it much longer. And I'm talking about speakers of the House, whatnot. I think this was a wound for Pete Hegseth. It gave space for a lot of senators who we didn't know had a beef with Pete Hegseth to vocalize their lack of confidence in him. And so, no, I don't think this accrues to his benefit. Honestly, it's a starting point for the Democrats in January. I think they'll be a lot less polite than I was. I offered eight articles of impeachment. What I heard from a lot of people was, well, why didn't you do this one and this one and this one too? He withheld money for Ukraine. He fired these generals. He covered up this. He killed these programs. I'm like, well, you can do that in your impeachment. And they'll also have hearings. That was one thing I wasn't able to compel. So I had to limit my articles of impeachment to facts that we know, right? There's also, of course, a deep irony in the president right now calling you a loser given the midterm drubbing, historic midterm drubbing that he just received. But what do you make of the fact that all the Republicans stuck with the president's wishes on this one? Because it's very clear that right now part of what he's trying to do is reassert control over the Republicans in the House and the Senate. By the way, apologies to Caitlin Collins there. She caught a stray bullet from the president. I think she's used to that. I call that secondhand hate. And if you you may get some of it from having me on the show. My analogy to to answer your question, my analogy to what happened with this impeachment resolution vote is the Titanic hit the iceberg on November 3rd. I brought a life raft to Republicans. I'm like, look, you all acknowledge we got this drumming because of the war, the unpopularity of it. And here's a chance to put some daylight between yourself and this administration. Pete Hex, Hexeth is roundly despised and hop in the boat. And they're like, no, we got a ticket on the Titanic. It's everything's fine here. We'll just stay on the Titanic. Music's playing. Things are great. Right. But the reality is they can't. They still can't. It's like they've got concrete boots on or something. It's they can't break away from what they know is wrong. It's like rat poison. Right. It just tastes too good. So they're going to keep eating it. Some of these people need to worry about 2028 getting reelected. They had near misses in their congressional districts and it could get worse, not better for them as more of the things that this administration has done and the people around this administration have done has done will come out. Well, it was fairly common knowledge in Trump's first term that here in Washington, Republican congressmen, Republican senators would say one thing to the cameras and then behind closed doors, they would say, listen, we know that this is ridiculous. We know that it's not good for a president. We know that it's not good for a president to talk like this or we know that he is doing things that we disagree with and we don't think should happen one way or another. Is that still the tenor of conversations behind closed doors in the Republican conference on Capitol Hill? They won't even admit it now. They're just, I think, shell shocked. You know, I think there were 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump during his first term. And now you can't even get one besides me to impeach one of these cabinet members. So his, what it means is his grip on the conference, on the GOP conference, in spite of the shellacking that we took is still strong. And if you do look at Republican primary voters, that's what my colleagues are worried about. They're worried about their, they got the next election they need to win. They don't want to be like you. Correct. Right. And in my congressional district, you know, in the last poll that I did right before the election, Donald Trump had 70% approval rating among Republicans. Mm-hmm. And I would, you know, 75, 70%. The problem is he used to have 95%, right? And so in a general election, you carried all of the Republicans and they showed up and voted. And because he's gone from 95% approval among Republicans down to 75%, that's why we took the drumming in, you know, on Tuesday. Right. I've obviously never been a Republican, never agreed with the Republican Party, but I used to know what they, like, were about, basically. Basically, they're free trade. It was, you know, there was. I felt that way, too. You know, and then the low taxes. Yeah, what do you think the Republican Party is at this point, if you had to say sort of ideologically, what coheres it? You know, and there used to be outside groups here in Washington, D.C. that would be like the North Star, like Club for Growth or Heritage or FreedomWorks. FreedomWorks, RIP. Yeah, RIP, but also RIP to Club for Growth. I mean, they lost their way. They're still in business. They used to be the free trade people in Washington, D.C. If you wanted a good Club for Growth score, you had to be for free trade, and now they've just rubber-stamped everything Trump does, including tariffs, and I think they lost their way on the big, beautiful bill. I tried to point out, hey, guys, you're cutting taxes. That's great, but you're also increasing spending in the same bill, so you're going to drive up the inflation, but also interest rates, because our bond ratings went down the very day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. the big, beautiful bill passed. That was a signal that we weren't serious about tightening the belt here in Washington, D.C. And, you know, while I'm calling out people, the Freedom Caucus, right, that was supposed to be the group of conservatives that kept the Republican Party honest. They're nowhere to be found. Like, on the big, beautiful bill, you were saying, you were asking me, do people say things behind closed doors and then do another thing? That was the Freedom Caucus on the big, beautiful bill. Mm-hmm. They all knew it was trash, that it increased spending, that they had seen these budgets that go 10 years. You never make it to the 10th year where they show that it balances in the 10th year. Mm-hmm. They knew that the first two years is all you can count on in the big, beautiful bill, and in the first two years, it blows the budget. So where were they? Where are they now? Do you still see yourself as a Republican? Yeah. I think they're lost. Like, I am the one, if you took our platform that we. run on. In fact, and to a large degree, the populist promises that Trump made, I'm the one that's sticking on that, right? Like, release the Epstein files, cut spending, no more wars, maha, this is a coalition, not just, I don't just consider myself a Republican who stayed true to his principles, I consider myself still part of that coalition that, to his credit, Trump built before he tore it all apart once he got in office. Now, speaking of that, actually, fascinating moment last week where your old friend, Ron DeSantis, broke with the president on election day before he even knew that it was going to be a bloodbath. This was with Stephen A. Smith, and he's continued ever since. So we have one clip of him hitting Republicans over some of the things that you care about a lot, the Epstein files, the Iran war. Let's take a listen. I'm like, you know, that's a bad vote. We ran as Republicans on saying we need to do that. And then you actually have people in the Congress voting against release when the attorney general said she had all this horrific stuff on her desk and that people are going to be held accountable. It's untenable. When you have people going in, trading stock, how is it that. I've been in elected office and I'm poorer for it. I was actually pretty good at it, you know, in my spare time before I got into this. But my view was, how do you have no investment acumen and then all of a sudden get elected to Congress and then you're outperforming Warren Buffett? How does that work? Well, it's a great question, Congressman, but I'm sure you've seen this. He's been attacked since he started criticizing the Trump administration, the Republican campaign, just for being friends with you and for your prior political relations. I think you endorsed him. I campaigned with him in New Hampshire, South Carolina, Iowa. He was a congressman. That's the thing I think people forget. fun fact, he's also a foodie. We used to take turns picking the restaurant. We didn't want to go to the fancy dinners up here that the Republicans were having. And we both were true to our wives. So we would go out on a dinner every week, you know, just to get away from all the chatter. And we would actually talk about bills and stuff. I know that sounds crazy. You're losers. Yeah, we're losers. And he's right. Like, he's a smart guy. He's a JAG lawyer. He doesn't like to remind you, he went to Yale and Harvard and he served in the military and he's a hard worker. And he's also pretty smart about, you know, some people say, oh, he's too wonky. He spends too much time studying things to be, but he probably had polls. He was probably, he's a political junkie too. He's predicted the loss of Eric Cantor up here before Eric Cantor Yeah. But to Dave Brat, I don't know if you remember that. That was the majority leader who went down. 2014. Yeah. And that's when Ron was here. But Ron was right about all that. He's been right about so many things. Have you talked to him since? I have not. I probably jinxed him the other day. Somebody said, who would be a good replacement for Pete Hegseth? And I said, Ron DeSantis. Like, he wouldn't have all these constitutional problems that Hegseth has. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a car. If you're buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronic store employee was a little too good at their job, then sometimes you make great ones like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. Here's a hint. Do it with Lenox. Calling back to the originals from 1989, now you can share the memories and the flavors of Lenox. Forever. Remember, when you give a gift that lasts, you give it back. Odoo is the all-in-one platform that replaces Amazon. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR. Fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Why not you? That's odoo.com. Let's talk a little bit more about the new Epstein Act that you successfully got. Enough signatures on the discharge petition. Let's go ahead and put A4. Up on the screen here. This is your own tweet. I'm reading here. Thomas Massey to Thomas Massey. This morning we reached the required 218 signatures on my discharge petition for the Epstein Files Transparency Act 2, working closely with Representatives Jayapal, Teresa L. F., and Representative Ro Khanna to get this to the floor for a vote soon. What is consequential about this new Epstein Files Transparency Act? Well, it's a new and improved version of the first bill. When we wrote the first bill, Ro Khanna and I, we never imagined the Attorney General of the United States, the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the United States, would not follow the law if we could get it on the books. But he hasn't been following the law. And one thing that's hard to do is to get Todd Blanch into a courtroom because a lot of the arguments that he's making would fall apart in front of any judge. And so what this bill does is it gives private right of action, that's lawyer speak, I'm told, that lets you sue the Attorney General. And it allows three categories of people to do that, survivors, so that they can get their own files, congressmen, so that we can litigate the ways that he's not following the law, and then attorneys general of the states, particularly the New Mexico Attorney General, where Zorro Ranch is, would love to prosecute these crimes in state courts for state offenses that don't have statute of limitations. And Todd Blanch, it's unprecedented. He's not cooperating. He's not cooperating with the state attorney general who wants to prosecute crimes. And so this would give him the ability to get unfettered access to those files so that he can prosecute the crimes in New Mexico. And you can imagine the Florida Attorney General, the New York Attorney General, probably the New Jersey Attorney General, those people could also prosecute crimes in their own states that Epstein's co-conspirators committed. And remind us, by the way, what you believe is still missing from the releases. And on top of that, I know built into the original Epstein. Files Transparency Act was potential criminal penalties for noncompliance in the DOJ, if I'm remembering that correctly. So just bring us back up to speed on what you think still might be out there and what actually could happen to people at the DOJ right now if they are noncompliant with the act. Well, I think they could be prosecuted. We didn't put any specific thing in there. I think the Administrative Procedures Act gives people like journalists standing. And Katie Fang has got standing. And is successfully litigated. She is litigating against Todd Blanch now. What was your first question? What do you think is missing in the release? Oh, yeah. Well, there's probably millions of files missing. But I don't go by the number or how many gigabytes of files he can't account for. What I care about are the files we specifically required him to release in the first Epstein bill, which are the memos and internal documents about their decisions on whether to prosecute and whether to investigate some of these people. Mm-hmm. I think Todd Blanch has claimed twice in kind of memos that nobody reads, but I read. He has a CYA memo that he sent to Congress where he says, well, we're asserting deliberative process privilege. Now, that's a term of art used for the Freedom of Information Act. If you ask for something from the administration, oftentimes you'll get a lot of redactions. Well, one of their favorite redactions is where they're making decisions. All they have to show you is what they decided, not how they got to the decision. But that's a rule that applies to the Freedom of Information Act. And even if it applied to the kind of production that we're compelling them to release, our bill overrides that because our bill says, give us those files. And so that's one of those crazy legal things that wouldn't stand up in court if we could get Todd Blanch in court. He's trying to say that an older law or rule on the books trumps the newer law. But that's not how laws work. When you pass a new law, it replaces the old law. In that particular area. President Trump was close friends with Jeffrey Epstein for a long period of time. Mar-a-Lago was clearly a hunting ground for Epstein. What is your understanding of Trump's involvement, not just with Epstein, but with this broader circle? So Trump told Marjorie Taylor Greene and she told me, you know, the day that he told her this. Right. We were in close communication. He told her, you're going to get my friends hurt if you keep up with this. If you get these files released. I think what he's worried about, even though he may not show up in those files, because a lot of the stuff he did predates emails. You know, he's not a big emailer, predates cell phones, predates the Internet. A lot of stuff you could get away with, he and his friends could get away with, aren't in the files. But if his friends get implicated, they may take him down as well for things that aren't explicitly in the files. And I think. I think there's something in there that's not been produced that Melania is afraid of because she held her own spontaneous press conference. Right. That nobody knew was coming. Very odd. She was trying to get in front of something that was about to come out that has to do with the Epstein files. And even from that podium, she said Jeffrey Epstein did not act alone. And so let's take the first lady at her own words. They're closely connected to the. To the Epstein, you know, cohort, let's call it the class of billionaires and bankers. And they were in those social circles. And I'm afraid or he I believe he's afraid that he gets taken down by this somehow, even if he's not in the files. I mean, it makes sense because he's not one to, like, sacrifice his own political standing on behalf of a friend or an associate, et cetera. That seems down to character for him. He's at MIT. We called it ballistic podiatry, shooting yourself in the foot. He's he's a practitioner of it now. Like Donald Trump knows what's good for Donald Trump. And you can rely on him to do what he thinks is best for him. And without knowing what's in his head or the things that he knows, it looks completely irrational what he's doing. I mean, he's squandered this majority. Texas is blue. Part of it's the Iran war. But part of it. Mississippi, too. Yeah. I mean. And entire legislatures, Wisconsin, a triple loss there. And part of it's the Iran war. Part of it's cost of living. But the hiding the Epstein files is in the top three issues that caused this red. I'll call it a red crater. It's not so much a blue wave as it was a red crater. And they lost a lot of trust with that. Yeah. And they had a chance with the you know, when we got our bill passed, they couldn't hide behind. Well, our. Our policy is never to comment on these investigations or do that. Like we took all those excuses away and they could have come clean. Instead, they produced files that encourage us to believe there's more there. How many Republicans are with you now because you were defeated in the primary? Nancy Mace went to run for governor. Lauren Boebert just lost. Marjorie Taylor Greene resigned. So all the people that were with you before, including yourself, are all being bounced out for one reason. One reason or another. So, I mean, what do you make of that? And are there other Republicans who were coming to the table or signing on to the discharge petition who are with you on this? Well, I tried to make the case to one of my Republican colleagues. colleagues that he should sign the discharge petition. This was this week before the other two Democrats signed. But he pointed out to me what you just pointed out, that the six of us who signed that discharge petition, none of us are coming back, including Ralph Norman and Brian Fitzpatrick in that list that you just named. All six of us are gone. So, you know, it makes it hard to tell one of my Republican friends, you should sign this discharge petition. But I do think we could get another unanimous vote or nearly unanimous vote in the House and the Senate on this sequel bill, because unlike the Iran war, where people can't break away from it, I think having that ad run where it said he voted against releasing the Epstein files, I mean, that is poison in a primary and it's poison in a general election. Now, you've been criticized for, and many have, for using overheated rhetoric when it comes to Epstein, allegedly using overheated rhetoric when it comes to Epstein. So talking about mass trafficking ring, pedophilia, that sort of thing, the counter argument is that much of this was women who were of age and were consenting to be in essentially like sugar baby type relationships. They knew what they were doing. They were getting modeling benefits and that sort of thing out of it. What's your response? I mean, I wondered if it was appropriate to call Jeffrey Epstein a pedophile. And I had, same concern myself until we did the press conference with the survivors. And I heard the story of 14 year olds who were conscripted into Jeffrey Epstein's scheme and recruited other 14 year olds at their high school. And that brought me to tears. And I'm like, this is a special kind of evil. Like it's one thing to molest somebody or take advantage of them, but to get them to do your evil bidding, to bring other girls to you, underage girls to you, so that they could get a reprieve from being abused themselves. Like that brought me to tears. And that helped me understand why a woman wouldn't talk about this for years, because it happened. These people who came out and told those stories, they got accused of being sex traffickers themselves. And they said this would happen and they told their stories anyway. And so, no, there's no overstatement here about how evil Epstein was and the people around him who enabled it and partook in it. As we've been discussing massive midterm drubbing, you were just saying that the Epstein files release you think was sort of a beginning of the sense of betrayal and disgust that many people had with what was going on with this administration. Tell the story of what you think happened. Like what were the components that led to this like historic mass loss, red crater, blue tsunami combination of the two, whatever you want to call it. Systematically, Donald Trump disassembled, the coalition that he put together that had put us in the majority. Like he got a lot of women who are independent women to vote Republican on the promising to release the Epstein files. It looked like for once that Republicans would have the upper hand on this issue, right? Usually it's the Democrats who say they're for women and they're trying to, you know, convict sex traffickers. Well, in this case, Donald Trump took the lead with that and also got independent women to vote for him. And some Democrats. Democrats on the Maha issue. Okay. We don't want to feed our families poison. I don't know why I got breast cancer. Is it something that I ate? You know, I want to be healthier. I want my kids to be healthier. And, and then he turned around and I was at the Supreme Court when the DOJ showed up and made the DOJ's lawyers made the argument for Monsanto and Bayer that they should be immune from these state labeling laws that would allow people to sue them for cancer or other. You know, other diseases that they might get from glyphosate. It's not limited government now. Well, he basically that's the biggest betrayal of the Maha faction of that coalition that you can make. Then you have the sort of the Pat Buchanan's not, you know, I know he gets categorized as being xenophobic or whatever, but he was always for not being in anybody else's war. He was like me against the next war already. And against the last war. And there, you know, there are a lot of us who don't want another war and are tired of war. And again, these are a lot of these folks are independent. Some of them are Democrat and, and 20% were Republican. That's why he went from 95% approval to 75% approval. The no new war faction. It's like the biggest stick in the eye. Not only did you get into a war, you did it in the Middle East. Iraq's neighbor, okay? Like, come on, did we not learn anything? And then he betrayed the fiscal conservatives. Doge, a lot of Doge did not happen. Like, if Doge had been effective, spending would go down, would be lower than it is now, right? We were told there would be, there was a trillion dollar of waste or, you know, a few hundreds of billions. That didn't, there's, Doge was a failure, unfortunately, if you're conservative. I think anyone would want the government to be more efficient. Yeah, wouldn't you? Why would you want waste, okay? And, but what happened is Elon Musk threw his hands up and left town because he found out it was easier to land a rocket backwards and get a car to drive itself than it was to get these guys to cut one penny of spending, right? He was so frustrated for a hot second, he wanted a third party, right? And for another hot second, he was going to primary every Republican, right? Yeah. And then he just, oh, well, this is going to be hard to get my satellites in space when I need the FCC to approve every, you know, satellite, et cetera, et cetera. I better give this mission up. Did they lean on you much at all for Doge? No, I sort of laughed my way through the whole thing. Right. Because I remember at the president's first sort of State of the Union, he went through this list of ridiculous things we spend money on. And my Republican colleagues are standing up and clapping, like the chairman of the committees who authorized this spending, right? Are clapping like seals. And I'm like, these clappers, are not going to cut anything. Those are all their projects he's picking out and naming. Well, and there was never a focus on the Pentagon, which is where. The focus was on spending another $150 billion in the big, beautiful bill. So he alienated Maha. He alienated No New Wars. He alienated the fiscal conservatives. And then the Epstein issue was a top three issue. And it wasn't just about sex trafficking. There's a belief, and it's well known, that there's a category of people. These people don't go vote even. Listen, a lot of them aren't even donors. They're above politics. They're above the judges. They don't go through TSA. They don't get the pat-downs. They fly in their own planes. They walk straight onto the tarmac, get on the plane. They're outside of our society, operating above it. They have their own islands. And it's not just Jeffrey Epstein and his associates. And people all across America, one of these people to be accountable. They thought, "Okay, Donald, we know you were one of them, but we're relying on you to take them down." So you think Trump is under pressure from other people in this sort of coterie of ultra-elites not to mess with the privileges that they have politically, financially, economically? Correct. Yeah. Don't disturb the. I mean, it's global, right? We saw the prime minister of Norway get indicted. We saw the British ambassador to the United States get indicted. We saw the United States had to step down. Prince Andrew lost his title. The former minister of culture in France had to step down. There's accountability around the world except for here. I mean, you did have the president of Harvard had to step down and maybe a dozen CEOs here in this country, but nobody's. Jeff Staley. Yep. Nobody's been convicted. Howard Lutnick still got his job. He's. I mean, that's how tight. There's a lot going on with him this week, too. Yeah. We'll see if he still has his job next week, yeah. On that impact on the midterms, the group that swung the hardest away from Trump was Latinos, particularly in Texas and the Rio Grande Valley. And one of the issues they cited was the aggressive tactics of ICE. What's your view on that now that played in? Well, Kristi Noem came, and it was actually the day before she was fired, but she came and testified in front of our Judiciary Committee. And I said, "Hey, why don't you just require everybody to have a body camera?" Like, all the good cops I know want body cameras. Mm-hmm. And all the police departments in my congressional district have body cameras. Like, have body cameras before anybody gets a gun and gets to go out there and do these things. It keeps everybody honest, because you know nobody's going to get away with anything in the long run. And why not have warrants? Like, why do you. Judicial warrants. Like, the administration pretends they can give themselves warrants. It doesn't work that way in the Constitution. And even if you're going after somebody who's committed a crime or whatever and may not be a citizen, you're going into somebody's house that is a deed that's owned by a U.S. citizen here in the United States. You should have to have a warrant for that. They could have done it in a better way than they did. And actually, this is something I wanted to ask you in general, because Maha is an interesting area of this. Like, as I've always admired about you, you're of extreme concern for civil liberties, extreme prioritization of civil liberties. You're not like many libertarians who are full open borders or who are full, you know, just don't eat the poisoned food. It's your choice, that type of thing. How, with Maha in particular, but also on civil liberties when it comes to, you know, people in this country who who don't need to be surveilled by flock cameras and don't need to or don't have to be, shouldn't be because of their Fourth Amendment rights. Do you think the Republican Party has lost under Trump some basic concerns for civil liberties that might have been there if it weren't this Trump era where everybody wanted to march in lockstep with the president? And, for example, with ICE, they blamed Alex Prendergast for carrying a gun. It was one of their first lines of attack was the fact that he was an armed citizen engaged in protest with a gun. And that's where you lost some gun owners. They're like, no, you don't deserve to die because you carry a gun. What the hell? There's no justification there. You know, you touched on something. By the way, I have a bill called the Flock Off Act. Instead of I try to walk the line between the libertarian argument and, you know, and I just say we're not going to fund local governments with federal money to pay for flock cameras and the other people that make cameras unless it's to pay tolls or to enforce the border. Ironically, those are the only place you could use automatic cameras. But one of the hot issues that just sort of went away. This is you should be suspicious of this. You know, when Mike Johnson was on Judiciary Committee with me. Oh, yeah. He was in favor of Jim Jordan's proposition that we should get rid of the warrantless spying. Oh, yeah. FISA was a big. He went on Glenn Greenwald's show and talked about it. Yeah, it was a hot topic. And we were all going to do something about it. Jim Jordan, Mike Johnson. And. And I. And then Mike Johnson became speaker and was responsible for railroading the reauthorization of FISA. And now and then when FISA came back up, it actually quietly didn't get renewed. The part that everybody was worried about. So they're operating under some legal. They're still doing the same things. Right. There's there's still spying on you without a warrant. And it just went away. It's behind the scenes. And they're they've come up with some legal justification that lets them do it without. Without an authorization from Congress that that concerns me. That would be one question I would have for, you know, of Jim Jordan. He was the leader on this and he ultimately agreed to be quiet. And now that he's the minority leader, will he find his voice again and be for civil liberties in this domain? What do you make of Stephen Miller being made chief of staff? He doesn't seem one overly concerned about civil liberties, let's say. You know, I think probably Susie Wiles. Was going to leave anyway, but maybe he screamed at her one too many times and she quit on the spot. He didn't have time to find somebody. And Stephen Miller was in the room. You know, you're going to be the next chief of staff. And I don't know that there was a lot of thought that was put into it. But Stephen Miller was making a lot of the decisions anyway over there, I would say. In what areas in particular? Obviously, well, immigration, but executive orders like, hey, just do this, assert your executive power. And we'll let the courts sort it out. Yeah, we'll lose eight out of 10 of these arguments in the courts. But a few of these things will slip through. So let's just do everything by executive order. Don't waste your time with those bozos in Congress. Don't get this stuff authorized over there. Like the tariffs. We've never voted for tariffs in Congress, yet some of them still exist. Some of them got struck down by the courts. I think that's the kind of Stephen Miller strategy that you're going to see, especially now that you don't have a Republican Congress. They're going to be. Damn the legislative branch. We're going to do everything we can with executive authority. But I think picking a new chief of staff was a chance for Trump to say, I got the message. And the chief he picked says he didn't get the message. Right. Yeah. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home. You can't just buy your home and auto with Progressive. Here's a hint. Do it with Lennox. This year, Lennox will make the holidays something truly special. The Lennox. Spice Village is the perfect holiday gift for someone you love, including yourself. Lennox has brought timeless beauty and quality to tables and homes for generations. Baking together, sharing recipes, decorating. Suddenly, simple pleasures become part of your holiday story. Forever. With Lennox, collect those moments every year or treat your favorite someone. Remember, when you give a gift that lasts beyond the holidays, it's an amazing feeling. When you give Lennox, you just might start a new tradition. Discover the full collection at Lennox.com slash Spice Village. Why not you? That's Odoo. Odoo.com. So, actually, speaking of Susie Wiles, I wanted to ask you about Cali Means' media tour. He was on Joe Rogan and CBS and said that Trump's staffers basically treat him like a baby. You might know more about this than I do. My first thing to suggest is his assertion that Maha is being swamped by the swamp is absolutely accurate, that Susie Wiles clearly played a role in that because of her longtime lobbying connections, particularly to the firm Ballard, where she used to work, which its business is going through the roof. People can find all the receipts on that in the public records. But let's start with this clip of Cali Means. This is from CBS describing how Trump is treated by his own staff. I think he had severe poor advice from people, I think, who treated him like a baby in many respects and used him. The president's staff treat him like a baby. Of course. They would block access and information to him all the time. I would be not surprised at all. They had very short conversations on these issues, you know, where the president's extremely busy. And the president said, OK, whatever. And then he's not interested. Yeah. Then they use that like like it's all it was all like the president wants this. So, Congressman, I think that's a message from Cali to the president that he wanted the president to see this assertion that his staffers are treating him like a baby. I think it's specifically he went when he went on CBS and made that message. Do you think that's persuasive to the president? Do you think that moves the needle? Well, I'm glad. You showed it because the president's probably watching Breaking Point right now. He's a huge fan. So if you missed it on CBS, you'll catch it now. You know, it was in October or I think it was September, maybe October, when I told I told Bobby Kennedy he had a meeting with about a dozen of us congressmen. And we went around the table. This was over at CPI. We were like in a room over there. And I said, my biggest concern. My biggest concern is that you underestimate how deep the swamp is and it's going to be harder to get anything done once you get there. And his response to me was, well, I've won lawsuits against the biggest corporations in the world. And so I'm not concerned about the magnitude of this task. And what I wanted to explain to him was this is not a courtroom you're walking into. There's no jury. There's no fair presentation of the facts. There's no discovery, as Kali Means just showed you. And even President Trump, about 10 days after the election, when he was President-elect Trump for his second term, we had a conversation about cabinet secretaries. And he asked, he said, what about Bobby? Is he too much? And I said, what do you mean? He says, is Bobby too much for HHS? And I said, well, I don't think so. What are you talking about? He says, don't you think we need some vaccines? And he said, President was, get the craziest son of a bitch you can find to run every one of these organizations, because they're only going to be able to change it 1%, maybe 3%. The bureaucracy is so entrenched. And he said, do you know Bobby? And I said, yeah. Are you friends with Bobby? And he said, yeah. He said, call him up. Tell him to get ready. Wow. So I called up Bobby Kennedy. I said, Trump, I think he's going to pick you, but he's worried about that he thinks you want to ban all vaccines. And Bobby Kennedy said, I never said I want to ban. You didn't do an impression for Bobby, I noticed. No, I can do one. But anyways, not as well. Not that I did a good one for Trump. But anyways, the next day, he picked Bobby Kennedy. And then as this administration started, I had a few conversations with Bobby Kennedy, like when they were killing all the chickens and the egg prices were high. He was applying logic to the problems. He was like, wait, if there's an outbreak in a million chickens, why would you kill all the chickens? all the healthy ones, like don't you need keep those and breed them. Anyways, it made sense. And so in the beginning, things started off well, but it's become opaque to me. I haven't talked to Bobby Kinn anymore, mainly because I don't want to jinx him. I don't want somebody to know that he's talking to me. It wouldn't go well for him in the administration. So I haven't had any conversations with him since Trump started getting mad at me. But did you sense that there was an element of, or do you sense there's an element of crony capitalism. Did you hear this about Susie Wiles being somebody who was blocking things or was facilitating? I mean, for example, she did have Politico reported she had meetings with the Bayer folks and obviously her former firm was representing Bayer. So if you're in Washington, you know how that works. And it's pretty obvious the writing's on the wall. So were you under the impression that this is what was happening inside as well? Absolutely. Yeah. I believe everything that Colleen Means is saying there, because like I said, I went to the Supreme Court. I watched the DOJ argue for Bayer not to have to be sued. They wanted to get out a court free card. National security. But I watched this happen everywhere. Trump did the executive order, the defense order that said round up glyphosate is a national priority for defense. Like that's crazy. None of the generals said that, you know, that, hey, we need glyphosate to be safe in this country. I watched it in the legislative branch. The Bayer lobbyists were slipping provisions into the farm bill. We got it stripped, actually. We were able to stop them from slipping it into a bill in the House. But they've been working in the state legislatures. Like there's a four-pronged attack that Bayer has lobbying effort, state legislatures, the U.S. legislature, the judicial branch and the executive branch. And they've won the bill. And they've won, you know, three quarters of those battles. Yeah. I mean, the thing that irritates me about Kelly's critique is it just sounds so much to me like all of the others who will never criticize Trump. It's always, oh, it's the advisers. Oh, it's all Susie Wiles. Oh, yeah. Oh, they're treating him like a baby. He doesn't even know what's going on. I mean, that's the part that really irritates me. And also to try to absolve him of the endemic corruption, which, yes, OK, Susie Wiles, but you literally made three billion dollars while you were president this time around. He's always been a pro-corporate guy. He literally, during the campaign, went into a room of oil executives and said, if you give me a billion dollars, I'm going to do whatever you want for you, do whatever, you know, you would want me to do. So what do you think of that aspect of it? Because that's very frustrating to me and has been consistent from the first term. No one could ever say anything directly about him. You know, in his first term, I tried to thread the political needle and never criticized Trump, criticized the policies, but never criticized the man. He deserves it. Look, he goes to a podium and he'll tell you we stole Venezuela's oil and to make American companies rich. Like he's he brags that, you know, there's there's corporations making money because the price of gas is over four dollars a gallon and diesel's over six. Like, yeah, he is he now owns every bit of the malaise that he's created. And did that strategy work for you? Because I do think, you know, you see that with him and Joe Kent still being very careful not to, like, go after Trump. You know, he's been very careful not to, like, go after him too hard. Tucker Carlson played that game for a long time. Do you think that strategy? Well, ultimately, it worked until it didn't. He brought the full weight of his administration against me, even now that I've lost. I mean, he's in press conferences. He's talking about me. I'm living rent free in his head. It will probably happen again on this next Epstein bill. I'm not sure what his posture is going to be. I don't know if they're treating him like a baby. Has anybody walked in yet to tell him? Mr. President, as he got to 218 on the discharge petition, you're going to have to sign another Epstein bill. Like, maybe they don't want to be the person that has to tell him that, right? But, you know, he does his own social media. You're right. You're absolutely right. He owns these things now. He can't be absolved of it. And people are people need to quit tiptoeing around. But my colleagues, they're the ones I'm most disappointed in. Like, they won't even go against him on policy when doing so would just be to keep the promises he made in the beginning. Like, no new wars or, you know, MAHA, the glyphosate stuff, or cutting spending. And ultimately, they would not tolerate me, even though I never said a bad thing about him, about the president. Ultimately, it was my votes that they just wouldn't even tolerate a policy disagreement. Not one member of the GOP could deviate. So. Well, I've asked you about this a million times, but I'm actually curious, since the midterms, if this has changed in your mind. Because it was maybe back in, like, 2017. I was at the Washington Examiner at the time, and you said, when you used to campaign with Ron and Rand in Kentucky, you were looking around, and you thought that they were all really excited about libertarian ideas, but you learned during the Tea Party years, they were just looking for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. Yes. And Trump won best in class. Trump won best in class. That's right. And I actually wonder if your primary had happened, you know, maybe a month from now, just hypothetically, if we wave the magic wand, and that primary that happened earlier this year was happening a month from now. It seems to me there would probably still be enough Republican primary voters who follow Trump to maybe get Gowrind over the end. But I'm not confident about that, because it almost seems like, you know, when you start to look like, you've lost your own base, that could be a kind of cascade of, a permission cascade, almost, where people are like, yeah, this guy, he's not necessarily crazy, he's just kind of corrupt and weird. Is that, is it possible that his spell over the Republican primary base, as you said, that's what people are really worried about, has worn off after the midterms? Well, what we know from the Hegseth vote is the spell on Congress has not worn off, right? They're still clinging right there with Trump. They're circling the wagons for, you know, they're circling the wagons for, you know, they're circling the wagons for, anybody in his administration, even the most incompetent ones in his administration, they'll circle the wagons. Some senators, not so much, but everybody in the House. No, I lost, I would say, if I'm doing an autopsy here, there were three causes of political death. Began with a blackout on Fox News. Like, my Republican primary voters over the age of 60, they watch it in the kitchen, they watch Fox in the living room, and when they go to bed, they watch it on their CPAP machine. You can invent that, actually. Right, yes. You can do that. I'm going to come up with a way to do that. That's another patent, another Massey patent. And run my own ads in the middle, right? There you go. To get some more oxygen, you know. For you and that person, yes. Click through to this link. Anyways, so I lost because of the blackout on Fox. That is literally oxygen. And I used to go on there all the time, you know, like once a week. And, you know, earned media is a big deal when you're conservative on Fox. So they took, they blacked me out because they wanted to keep access to the White House. And they're mostly doubling down since the primary on saying it's everything but the war. I don't watch it much. But so I lost because of that. I lost because of the counter-Trump endorsement. You know, he endorsed my opponent. I could have survived two of these three things, but I couldn't survive all three. The third thing was at least $32 million spent against me, which was the most that's ever been spent against any congressman in a primary ever. Okay. And so, and I could have sustained that without the Fox and the Trump, you know, stuff. So it was the, it was three of those things together. And I think those same three things would happen now. Although I would guess that the Israeli lobby is going to focus more on Democrats now than they will Republicans. So they may start trying to call that herd once it assembles and they start seeing voting patterns there. They'll probably go after the stray Democrats instead of the one stray Republican. AIPAC gave a lot of money to Jim Jordan last cycle. Yeah. A lot. I still can't believe they ran those AI ads suggesting you were having a threesome with, what was it, AOC and Ilhan Omar? Yeah. And people believe this, right? They did believe it. Like I, when I saw it, what goes through your mind is what can we do legally? Can we get these ads? And I thought, no, they're going to get so much blowback. That is so over the top. And I have conservative voters and they're going to look at that and just, it'll be revolting. This will work to my advantage. Not true. Like people believe that, like took it hook, line and sinker. It's disturbing. The older people, like, and there was a disclaimer that showed up for three seconds made with artificial intelligence. If you're 79 years old, you know, and you watch Fox all the time, what do you know about artificial intelligence? That might be the name of the security camera at the hotel that caught me in the threesome, right? Plus people are just not paying that close attention to read all the fine print, you know, and know exactly, like, and interpret that. And also to interpret that as this is, you know, a fake thing that we just invented versus this is a reenactment of something that really did happen here. I mean, it's just insane. Actual conversation with a voter at one of my rallies, this older lady said, my name is AOC. My neighbor says, she's not going to, she said, I'm voting for you. Don't worry. But my neighbor says, she's not going to vote for you because you dated AOC and Ilhan Omar. And. And I said, well, that never happened. That was like a fake ad. She goes, really? She was at my rally supporting me, and she was still going to vote for me, even though I did the threesome. God bless her. And she goes, well, I'll go back and tell my neighbor that's not true. Right. Like she hadn't even argued with her neighbor that it was untrue, and she had just accepted it was true, and she was going to vote for me anyway. God bless her soul. Really? Yeah, I do too. Can we put A5 up on the screen, please? This is from Axios, which you're probably familiar with this report. Congressman, the headline is MAGA Castoffs Plot 2028 Spoiler Bid. And the picture is you, Congressman Thomas Massey. And they are reporting organizers see a fighter in Massey. They say you raised almost $10 million in the process of pushing back on Trump over Epstein. You have a large online donor list for his parting act in Congress. Thomas Massey is pushing an impeachment vote against Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. For months, Libertarian Party operatives and MAGA defectors have been privately and publicly encouraging Massey to run under a rebranded party. Is it true that these conversations are happening privately? And can you tell us where your mind is when it comes to that? I had to wait for the last sentence of that story because there's three plots to conscript me into this race. Right. One is the takeover of the Libertarian Party. I think the plan there, which, by the way, I'm not a part. Of any of these. But one is a plan to take over the Libertarian Party. You get ballot access and you rename it and try to rebrand it as American Liberty Party or something like that. There's an effort. If you remember when Bobby Kennedy was sort of cast off by the Democrats and they wouldn't let him in the debates, he started running as an independent and and actually successfully got ballot access in many states. It took a lot of money. A lot of lawyers had to be paid. Because everything was challenged. But ultimately, it took a lot of effort to get him off the ballots like he once he, you know, joined forces with Trump. He had. I know the attorney, that attorney's actually worked for me. He does vaccine lawsuits. He he did my case against Nancy Pelosi when she garnished my wages for not wearing a mask. Anyways, Bobby Kennedy's attorney who did all that, Aaron Serious, his name, he had to get him off the ballots in those states. So there's the independent bid. There's the take over the Libertarian Party bid. And then every time an article like that comes out, 20 people text me and say, don't fall for this. Make sure you run as a Republican in the Republican primary, like people are ready to to change, like the Republican Party is so blown to pieces, you know, that now they think they might be ready for somebody else. Definitely. I am just fleshing out that. Last one. Yeah, I don't think there's anybody's name who's floated out there that would be in the lane that I would be in, which is basically run on Trump's platform again. Maybe in other words, let's let's bring the global elites to account. Let's get justice for for the people. Let's try to make our food clean and healthy again. Let's don't get involved in any new wars. Let's end the wars we're in and let's bring down interest rates and the cost of living by stopping. Stop spending so much freaking money and be honest with American people. We can't lower your taxes and raise spending at the same time. There could be a lane there, but and now I'm probably I'm imagining that Kalshi and Polymark, people are trading right now as they're watching this. Well, we can get on there and do it before we post this interview. Yeah, keep keep talking. Oh, this is pre-recorded. Well, I can, too. Right. There you go. We can all get in on the phone. I've never bought anything. I don't have any shares in either of those trading markets. OK. Yeah. We're an anti-Kalshi and Polymark. Yeah, I'm not anti. I'm not against it. Just don't do it because I could move the market. But I have not ruled it out, but I have not agreed to any of those plans. Do you buy that logic, though, that the Republican Party is ready to move on from Trump and have a clean break and someone who's been a critic and an adversary? You know, your sense? I'm an engineer and a scientist. Yeah. I would want to do some polling to see if that's actually true. And, you know, I don't like to argue things that we can know. So and I've still got some money in my campaign account. We can pay for a poll and see what people are thinking now. We can test your question. We can test, you know, of could you win your own primary now after all of this? We could also test the question. Can you get more than 3 percent in any plot to run for president? And what is the obviously you were in? The picture with Joe Kent and Tucker and Marjorie up in Maine. Is there an ongoing conversation among that kind of faction about a third party run? And would you have any part in something like that? I'm not sure they're all convinced of that either. I mean, we did have that meeting together. We we actually didn't spend much time talking about a third party run. We were talking about how to keep us out of nuclear war. I do. And not to change. The subject. But since that's what we were talking about in Maine, I do think that, you know, right before the election, there was a concern that Trump would double down on this war and it could go nuclear after this election. I think having people come out and say the reason we lost is the war has helped us avoid that scenario. I think he's less likely to do that. So that's one of the good things from the drubbing that we took. Yeah. But I do talk. To Marjorie almost every day. I talk to Joe Kahn about once a week and Tucker every couple of weeks. We may be on a group chat. Well, now that I think about it, it's a nightmare. Yeah. But unlike the secretary of defense, we haven't invited, you know, a press person onto our group signal chat. Incredible. My last question for you, just looking back over your time in Congress. You know, any any regrets, anything you would do different? Any, you know, changes you would make? So, you know, I also in that story, to your point, you said his last act is the impeachment of exit. People don't know what my last act is, right? OK, I got to tell January 3rd is I've got at least one more act, which is the Epstein bill, which has good prospects, really good prospects for passing. Is there anything I regret? Let me tell you the things I'm glad I did. OK. Before they changed the rules to keep me from doing this, it was in order to offer an amendment to rename a bill after a bill passed. So I went to the floor and offered an amendment. They passed a debt limit increase and a CR in the same bill. And I offered an amendment to rename it a bill to kick the can down the road and for other purposes. And the clerk had to read that and everybody laughed and cheered. And then I forced a recorded vote on it. So I know that's like and then there was one day. They tried to pass a bill without a rule. They've only done this once since I've been in Congress and I was sitting on the floor. I kind of anticipated it. It was they had done 11 of the 12 bills as an omnibus and they still needed to do the DHS bill. And it was actually Netanyahu was in town and everybody was at lunch with their APEC donors and I don't have an APEC donor. So I was like the only one sitting on the floor of the House. They brought the bill. I watched on TV in the cloakroom. They passed a bill in the Senate and brought it to the House and tried to pass it. Without a rule, a rule basically keeps you from using the regular rules of Congress. And I'm like, holy crap. I ran down to the parliamentarian. I'm like, are they passing this without a rule? Can I claim time in opposition? Can I debate this? And he's like, yes, you can. Yes, you can. And I said, well, when is that in order? And he said, well, after they finish reading the bill, but they usually always suspend the reading of the bill. And I'm like, can I object to suspending the reading of the bill? He said, yes, you can. So I forced the poor clerk to read like a hundred page bill like and everybody had to come back from their APEC lunches because I was to a clerk read. Yes. But that gave them time to finish their lunch and make it back before I claim time and debated against this. But that was like a good moment that I had in Congress. My goal on January 4th, you know, when I'm no longer a congressman, is to have no regrets. Like I want to know if a war happens or goes nuclear or if the country goes bankrupt and we get into runaway inflation or something, I don't want to have any regrets. I don't want to say, you know what, I was one of five hundred and thirty five people. I got to be in that group and there were levers, you know, I want to make that I didn't pull that I should have tried. And that's why, like during covid, when they spent they were doing a two trillion dollar stimulus package and they were going to shut down. The whole country. I got in my car and drove here eight hours overnight and stopped them from doing that and forced a vote on it and a debate. I couldn't stop the bill. Part of this inflation we have now is still the tail of that covid spending and the shutting down of our whole economy, not just the government, but the whole economy. I will sleep well on January 4th, but my my nightmare would be waking up and realizing there was some rule I didn't exploit that would have let me do something. - That's a very-- - That's a very revealing-- nightmare. Congressman Thomas Massey, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. I appreciate it. With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans, develop a trip itinerary with daily updates, or create a prioritized schedule so you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life. Get started at ChatGPT.com. There are exciting things happening at your local CVS. Shop new extra big deals with ExtraCare every two weeks. No coupon needed. Plus, get access to exclusive sale prices, personalized deals, and more as a member. ExtraCare is the way to save at CVS. Join for free online or in-store and start saving. Visit your local CVS. store or cvs.com slash extra big deals for this week's deals. Okay. Laundry stinks. Literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re-wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real-life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry the, quote, right way, deep clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm & Hammer Deep Clean. Number one claim based on total wash loads sold. Guaranteed human.