#107 - Discovery Meistern

Hello and welcome back to Pitch Elements, your podcast about the B2B software IT and technology sales. My name is Volker Hein. I am the founder of the Pitch Corporation and we help you to increase your win rate and to shorten your sales cycle in software and text sales. And today it's about what discovery is and how you have to lead discovery calls at all. Before we jump right into the content, I have a short announcement for you. On January 13th, we will host our first experience sales event live in Frankfurt am Main. If you want to do your career in 2023, then this experience sales day is exactly the right kickstart for you. On this explosive day, you will get to know the experience sales system and how you can shorten your win rate increase and your sales cycle with the modern software text sales. How you can really convince the target level, to inspire your product and to really differentiate yourself from the competition. This is a day full of tactical insights, practical tips and live coaching. Filling on topics and insights is enormous and how you know that from us is simply not bullshit but really deeper, more usable content. We cover everything from pitches, from pitch argumentations, pitch structures, about the discovery, sales cycle, development and shortening in C-level meetings, convincing decisions, framing, creating connectivity, to qualify opportunities, to carry out sales engagements and how you do outreach and much, much more. You have the opportunity to be coached live from me on stage, to ask questions from our know-how and our best practice, from the collaboration with over 250 sellers and sales teams from the K&U and Enterprise Sales in Dachau to profit. Our tickets are limited and if you want to be there, then now book your ticket with the link in the podcast description and we'll see you in Frankfurt on January 13th and we'll change the software and IT sales together. As a whole, it's been a long time in this market, there are a lot of concepts for it, a lot of instructions on how to make a discovery call, what questions you should ask, how you can lead these conversations and what it ultimately means. There is no idea about MADPIC, there is spin selling, all these concepts out there that were generated in the last 10, 20 years and that will still be used today. And I want to get a little deeper into this episode with you today, why I think that these concepts are no longer so usable for the market, in which we are today, why they have been good for certain generations in the past, but what we actually have to do today. And for that I want to get deeper into your first time, what is this discovery and what is it all about, why it actually works. Because the problem is a bit that through these concepts, through the way these concepts are built, the notion has been established a bit, it's about asking a lot of questions and because the human-to-human business should be and not so technocratic, I make a lot of ad hoc, I make it feel like a building, like intuition. That's what you all know, when you lead discovery calls, it will probably be so that you really templatize in the most cases, somehow have an idea that you are in the most cases, you have a systematica in there to really discover all the topics and to be able to finally realize, is this an engagement where I want to go in or not. But a lot will simply be decided by ad hoc, ad hoc questions will be asked, it will be thrown out of the feeling of the stomach in these calls. And that always makes sure that I'm in these calls, I have the feeling after such a call somehow I understood the customer well, but then suddenly, when I, for example, put my pitch build, I suddenly realize how much I still lack, what I didn't understand at all. Or I have such a shull flap that I don't really understand where my blind spots were or what I actually didn't discover from my customer. Then I build my pitch, then I have this sales presentation, 30, 60 minutes sales term and suddenly you have this strange feeling of, that doesn't really hit the core of this customer, somehow through the feedback that comes or that the customer directly says, yes, but that's not what we need at all. And so on, I suddenly realize how little my pitch actually has to do with what the customer wants, and all of this lies in the discovery. The most deals that are lost in the software and tech sector, which are lost in the back, have to do with that, that I didn't really understand in the front, what is really the need of the customer, where does this customer want to go at all and why does this customer want to do that at all? So what are his triggers, what are his motivation, his motivation, where does this whole topic actually come from? And I actually have to find that out, that's what I have to find out. That means a good discovery actually means, from the results of the first one, I understood that I can win this opportunity, because what I sell to this customer and not a situation in this customer finds that helps me, my product, or my solution, to be able to sell it really well. The second thing that I found out from a good discovery call, which is a result, is that I understand which sales argumentation I need for it, in order to get my product in the situation of the customer with his paints and his needs and his goals, in the best way possible, to be able to sell it effectively quickly, or at least to make sure that decisions are generated quickly. That means that in the end there is a clear way, a way where I know that this sales argumentation will make sure, or in the best case, that this customer buys it for me. And that's the third result of a good discovery or a good discovery call, is that the customer takes me as a value partner, as someone who doesn't just want to sell something, it's completely clear that you want to sell it, because otherwise you wouldn't talk to each other, that means you don't even need to ship around, but that's just how it is. But he or she has to at least take me as someone who knows in this area and who is trustworthy and who is trustworthy and who may be challenged and who can go in and build a new perspective. These are actually the three core topics that should come out at the end of a good discovery call. So, I know that I can get the opportunity, because the customer has exactly these problems, because he has these goalsets that solve our product as best as possible. The second is, I understand which sales argumentation I need to be able to inspire these customers to convince them or to make decisions. And thirdly, the customer has to understand me as a value partner and perceive me as such. These are actually the three results. And that's what's missing in all these concepts. That's what the focus is not on at all. The focus is completely right on it, to say I have to understand my customers, and I have to ask them a lot of questions, and I don't have to speak a lot, but ask the right questions. And that's actually always the tip of the iceberg. You say, which teams you should discover, for example the decision maker or the budget you should discover or the need of the customer or the pay-off of the customer, so what does the customer have from it? They don't tell you exactly what the specific questions are, through which I manage to create an intimacy, to create a value proposition, a value discussion, where the customer doesn't notice that he is in a sales situation right now, where I want to pick up a checklist on what the customer's issues are, but where he really understands that I really need him to really understand and help. That's actually what's supposed to come out of it, and all these concepts from the past they don't do exactly that, they don't put this focus on it, but they put the focus on which topics I have to discover. But it doesn't really play the role that much, it's basically about what is the result of this call and what I want to get out of it. The thing is, that the discovery call, if you really think about it as a theory concept, this discovery call must be completely systematized, it must not be a need, not an intuition, because there is a very specific way of doing it, for different target groups, and it can also be different in this way of doing it, but it is, for very specific target groups, it is systematized. That means it leads to this sales process at the beginning and should make sure that with this call, with these 30 minutes, or as long as your discovery always works, that I understand there, I can really win this case, and how am I going to build this further sales engagement. In my world, or whatever I always perceive, both from you, from Cellan, from Head of Sales, with whom I talk about it, that this discovery call in its importance, in its importance, is not really recognized, and that is not really recognized, why do I have to systematize it at all, and what systematization is actually included in it. It is really used, that this call is one of the most important instruments in sales, because I can build the pitch out of it, i.e. the 60-minute sales argumentation, to inspire my customers to make sure that the customer can make a decision. And that is the core of sales, that is the core of software and text sales. To help the customer, to make informed decisions, and in the fastest possible and most efficient way. And that is what the pitch needs, the meeting pitch. So I have to build the sales engagement so that it is very, very short, and that it is convincing, that the customer gets all the information, that he is led through his problems, that he can win an understanding for the solution, and in the end can clearly say, let's do that, or let's not do that. And to prepare that, I need the discovery call. I have to discover my customers correctly, by doing what they are doing. That means, without a discovery, there is no pitch, and there is no demo, no sales conversation, and no offer. It is decided. A lot of the sellers out there go through the world, and mix the pitch with their discovery call. That means, there is a first call with the customer, because he has just pressed a button here, Bokeh demo, or something, or speaks with our sales, whatever. So, then this conversation is usually built up like this. You ask 15 minutes, try to get something out of the customer, and then you start with his presentation, and here is our solution, or you go straight into the solution. I'll show you something. That's how this sales conversation normally goes. And with that, I show things that the customer may not even deal with. I am not at all able to build up a real narrative, a real argumentation logic, an argumentation chain, to convince this customer best of all possible in one situation. Instead, I mix these things, and because I mix them up, they can only remain generic. It's always like this, that you try to adapt your pitch or your demo to your customer, so to say, if you would do it like this, and with you it would be like this, and so on. But it never has this depth, never this convincing power, like a pitch that I built specifically for these customers. The specific set up, with exactly the arguments and the core topics that these customers really deal with. That means that the whole first area, this goal setting, to really think about why this thing is there, and what do I actually do in this Discovery Call. There are a whole other series of reasons why these old methodologies, the old structures, in my opinion, are no longer so relevant for the present time, especially for the seed level Discovery, are not usable. So I don't know who did that, who tried to discover some seed level with Spin or Medic, or to qualify, it doesn't work. You need a different approach, you need a much deeper value advisory. That has to be built differently. There are still a series of other reasons, we do that in another podcast episode or in another YouTube video. Let's take a look at that together. But first of all, basically it's about five major categories that you have to understand in the Discovery Call. The first is I have to find and develop the strategic narrative for my customer. That means I have to find out why this customer wants to change at all. What is the core of why they are now starting to think about this topic? For example, if I take a CRM transformation or an ERP transformation or something else, something where someone wants to buy another software or wants to think about it or at least is open for it, to change a process. Then I have to ask myself, how does it come to this point that he says, "I am open to changing my process"? What doesn't work in this process and why does someone care about it? Why would I give out 570,000 euros for this process to change it? Why do I do that? Or 80,000 euros or 130, whatever your deal size is. Why do I do that? Why do I give so much money for a process that should actually run, that should actually be in order, that should actually generate results? So what doesn't work? What is missing? What is the impact of it? How does that affect the business? It's nice and good that the data is somehow unstructured or that I don't have an entity in the CRM system or that I can't add any deal size in my contact or any deal phase or anything else. Or that I don't have any access to the R&D system. Nice and good. But why do I give out money for it? Why is it worth 250,000 euros for me? Where does that come from and what does that mean for this company? And then I have to look behind the curtain. That means I have to understand, when a customer tells me, "Yo, this is a process, it has an impact on how we write calculations about our final customer." Then I have to understand, what is the business logic behind it? What is the business process? So what is behind it? And then I have to go on. In which individual parts of the company does that flow in at all? Where does that cash flow come from and what do these cash flow problems create? What do they do with this company? And who in this company then started to say, "This topic is so big, so relevant and so problematic that we want to look at it now." So who in this whole process chain sits on this topic and has said at some point, "It's enough, let's take a look at this and we want to change things." Where does that come from? And that always has to do with the strategic narrative. Out of this, I can develop a strategic narrative from exactly these topics. Then I can clearly build a narrative about why change. Why now? Why do you want to change this process exactly now? Why is that really going on? And it never goes around the CRM implementation or the ERP implementation or the data silos or that the data is consolidated. Since you sell an IT product, i.e. a technological product, which is also the main target group for the CIO. For all other business products, it is not possible. Yes, all other business products are these topics that I just mentioned, not the strategic narrative. But something behind it, something where it really is about the whole thing. And that is the discovery call. The discovery call should serve to find exactly this strategic narrative and to be able to develop it with the information I generate from the customer. And that brings me to the second point, which is important for the discovery. Namely, how do I do that? How do I really get out of this customer this topic, this insight, this information? How does that work? And that brings us to the point, I have to talk to this customer on a different level. You can imagine that yourself, if you were to go to the store and someone would come to you, who works there and wants to help you or wants to help you choose the right things for you. Which information does the price give you? And how deep are these information? You would have someone, where you have the feeling that he is scratching on the surface, he is only doing his job here, that is business as usual. Doesn't he give the same information as someone, where you really have the feeling, "Oh my, he is really interested, he goes really deep, he knows things that I don't know." And he gives me value pieces, small information, so that he or she is positioned. Positioned in a way that I understand, these people can tell me something, these people know something that I don't know. That is value advisory. To go into the customer with these value pieces, value insights, and to convince the customer to have a very specific, unique perspective on this business, on these business processes. And that if you would get together, a synergy could arise out of it. Something could arise out of it, where the customer, the one I want to sell, might never have thought about it. Or for the first time, understand that there might be partners out there who know more than me, they might be able to help me to build my business process in a completely different way, to shape it in a completely different way. That is what it is about, and that is positioning. That means, in the discovery call, I am not just the questioner. I am not just the one who asks questions and tries to take it in. But I have to give more value to the customer in this conversation. And you all know that, and it always sounds so stupid, but you don't do it. You don't give these people more value, because what is more value? That you can do that, that your solution can do that? That you have somehow already done that with other customers? Where is the more value? Explain to me how the process works. Go in, have some meat on your bones, and not just, yes, my company and our great software, they solve exactly that, but it is about discussing deeply with these customers about their business processes. And on this business process, discussion, to ensure that the other person understands, "Hey, this is like me, this is happening here at an eye level, this is a dead end, that's what it is about." And this value advisory, these are small nuggets that I bring with me. That's not a lot. But when I make the systematized, when I can work systematically, value nuggets to a certain industry that I can then enter into the discovery. I don't have to know that. I don't have to be the crack sign for this industry. I don't have to be the McKinsey advisor with 12 years of professional experience that has worked in this industry. I only need value pieces, which I put together in an information package. And with this information package, I act in this discovery call. This is a very deep short story, or one of these people to convince and inspire. And to make it seem like you really had an idea of this industry, whether you might have never really dealt with it yet. In the best case, you have a value advisory that really comes from the experience. But you can't do that for everyone. If you haven't worked for two or three years in the sales industry, then you can't do that. And the industry portfolio is from manufacturing, from farmers, from, I don't know, metal builders, from automobile manufacturers, from, what do I know, then you can't expect that you know yourself in every industry. And that's exactly why you need these conceptual thoughts about how I work on value insights to the respective industry and how I bring these value insights into the discussion. To make it seem like we really can discuss at eye level and give the customer an advice and to challenge them. Theme number three, what we need in the discovery, is testing your own sales argumentation. That's also something that most people don't even have in their focus. Why don't they even think that in a discovery call I'm not just asking what are your problems and what's the impact and where do you want to go and how much does that cost you? What is your sense of urgency and who decides that with you and do you have a budget and so on? It's all about finding out which sales argumentation works with these customers at all. That's a very abstract concept for those who have never dealt with it yet. You might not even understand it. But there's a pitch structure and then a pitch messaging. So in the content of this 30-60 minute sales conversation there is a very specific way, a result, let me say that the customer should sell your software, to be logical. About a chain of different arguments, about logic trees, about logic chains. Can I get to know the customer? He understands what topic we have. Until I present my solution and the customer says, "Yo, that's exactly the solution I want." I can completely build this process. I can completely make sure that I'm able to really understand why and why that is. That happens in the pitch message. And that's why the pitch is never somehow patched together from any different foil decks. It is very stringent and developed. The pitch is like an instrument, like a surgical instrument. And I'm building a very specific argumentation, a very specific logic chain. I'm building this pitch to convince this customer. And what I do in the discovery is, for this customer with his situation, because it will call out everything at some point. At some point, if you get to know this system from experience, you will realize in your discovery calls that customers are almost always facing the same problem. They express all different symptoms, different situational problems, but in the core it is all the same problems. Maybe there are five, six, seven, eight, whatever, different core problems that you solve. And they will always and always appear. For these core problems, I can create a core argumentation. That means a logic chain that I can always and always use. And these logic chains, that's what I finally check in the discovery, whether this is present. It's a very specific concept, a very advanced technique that you have to have on it, where you have to know exactly what you're doing there at all. Because I can deal with a very specific problem, an impact from this impact, a very specific relevance. And from this relevance there is a big problem, which also has an impact and a relevance. And so I build different chains. And what I then ask in this discovery call is, don't you have exactly this problem in front of you? Instead, I ask back in the logic chain, do this thing, do that for yourself. And so I can jump from the statement, we somehow have, I don't know, I'm thinking of something else. We have too much content in the warehouse, it's a problem. Can I get to the question after that, okay, how do your sales run? Or what is the cash flow? Or do you have a cash flow problem in your company? Or do you have a cash flow problem? The customer will be completely confused at first, because he doesn't understand how it fits together. But if I catch this point, so if I know, cash flow could be a topic in this chain that this customer could have. And suddenly the customer says, do we have, where do you know that? That is value advisory. That is exactly what explodes the customer's head, where he suddenly thinks, how can he know that? How can this seller know that I tell him, yo, we have too much stuff in the warehouse. No, again, it's an example, I just thought of it. We have too much stuff in the warehouse, and suddenly we come to the cash flow. Where does he know that? And that is exactly the point where the customer comes to think about it. Where the customer thinks about it. Oh, there seems to be something behind it. There seems to be really something to have on it. And then I can explain it in the discovery call, maybe even explain it, or in the pitch, where these chains come from. But I know, okay, cash flows have the issue. They have this problem, so it will be this argumentation logic. And I can then put this argumentation logic in the pitch. And that is what actually has to happen in the discovery. These are so-called lever questions. So I have a very specific type of question, a very specific kind of question to put into this logic chain. And this specific kind of question is a lever question, because it leverages in which direction my sales argumentation actually goes. In which direction do I actually have to inspire my customer with this argumentation? Is that the direction or rather that? Is that the strategic narrative or sales argumentation? Which of these three is it, for example? And I test that in the discovery. So that I can go out after the discovery and say, okay, these are the problems, goals, impact, relevance. I'm working on everything. That's how I can react to it now. That's the argumentation I can build on to convince my customers to really do it differently and strictly. The next thing we'll need, the fourth big topic, is everything in the field of leading. When I've worked on this value position, when the customer suddenly notices that something is going on, that's someone who can really give me insights, or that's someone who's interested in talking to him, feedback or feedback, oh, that's a good question. I have to think about it. Those are exactly the things we want to achieve. And when I've established that, it's much easier for me to lead in this discovery call. You all have the problem, you talk to head-offs or professional managers or users, and you want to go to the next level, to the next level, to the decision-maker, to the goal-level. And most of them depend on this question, how is it going? And that's exactly how it's going. That's how I'm going to establish these frames. And then I'm going to work on a leading position in this call, through the relevance that I create to be able to lead this engagement. I have to do that. And then I have to have the exact wording for how I'm going to do it. To open this person, to go up, to take the topic with you, and to bring this person, so the goal-level, really to the decision-maker. For us in training, we've done everything, we've standardized everything, templated everything, how exactly that works. Because that's something I have to have on my mind. I have to have these frames on my mind. So a frame means giving the customer a certain frame, in which this customer can move now, and a situation to create in which the customer accepts this frame and moves within this frame and not outside, that means creating a frame on its own. In which I have to act, in which I move, but I want to lead, I know how I get this sales engagement from the discovery to the decision-maker, because I do that every day, because I have a systematic. The customer doesn't know that. So I have to help the customer understand that the process I have is the right one, and that he lets himself into it. And then I have to ensure that the right decision-makers come in, and that works through the framing. That works to create connectivity. How exactly that works, that's what we do with us, also this whole systematic behind it, that everything is working on the whole deal. That's the point number four. The point number five is that it only works when I'm prepared. All that I just described, that doesn't just come from the sky, it comes partly from the sky to me, because I do that every day for two years, in this systematic way. With the pitch cooperation, and of course in my own business, in my own sales activity, that's how I started to work. But also that needs preparation. And this preparation is something that the least do, because they don't have time. And they don't have time, because they don't know how that is structured, how it works. How can I work systematically working on these things? How do I do that? How do I prepare myself for a call and not to do half an hour or an hour of research, but ten minutes? And to know everything about this customer and to build up exactly this depth, or fifteen minutes? How exactly does that work? And that's why I need templates, templates, structured templates. Of course, you can create them yourself. You can build yourself something like that. We have completely templated something like that. How do you have to go now? If a customer calls, if a customer wants a meeting, if you want to have a meeting with a customer, what do you do then? How do you prepare yourself for this discovery call? How do you go through that? How do you work through the group? Your product, how does that fit? What are these goals of the company? All these topics that you have to have to carry out this conversation. You need systematic preparation for that, so that it really works quickly and effectively. And the thing is, that will really distinguish you from everyone else. If you look at software yourself, if you are interested in sales tech for example, then just do it somewhere, no matter what tool it is, just make a sales call. And then you will get to know how other people do their discovery. And then you will understand how meaningless that is. How absurd this approach model of this company is. I have some, because we also buy the software for us. And I have some SDRs who only ask me if I have the cola and if I can make the decision on my own. And then they give me a demo date of an hour. And now, what do you want to show me? I can also look at your standard shit on the Internet. How do we do the discovery? It is so basic, it is so rudimentary, it is so bad, that some customers sit there and think, "Why did I do that now? Why did I waste this 30 minutes of my life?" And that is exactly the point where the customers fall out of your sales cycle. That is the dropout rate when you want to go from the discovery call to the pitch. If you don't have it there, that is exactly why you don't really do the discovery. That is exactly the reason behind it. And if I do the right thing, if I do a great discovery, then I am able to win this customer very differently, because he first realizes what is possible at all. The same is in pitch, if I pitch right, if I have prepared the right thing. When that hits, then the customer knows for the first time what is the new standard, which measuring plate can I put on it at all. And I differentiate myself with that. And that is exactly the sales experience. And this sales experience weighs more and more and more and more. Because the products become more and more exchangeable, because there are more and more companies that have the same target groups, and that is why I have to start differentiating myself. And that starts at the beginning. That starts at the out-reach, at the discovery, that starts at the pitch, that starts at the sales engagement. And in each of these touchpoints, I have to bring excellence. And I have to build an experience within these touchpoints that ensures that I really get excited about this customer. If you are now interested in how exactly you can do this, how this can work for your deals, how you can increase your win rate and shorten your sales cycle, then book a free first meeting where we analyze your situation. You can do that via our homepage, www.pitchcooperation.com Then we have a short conversation. We talk about your situation, about your pitch, about your topics, we look at how we can solve it. And from there on, we move on. In this sense, my name is Volker Hein, I am the founder of The Pitch Corporation. That was Pitch Elements, your podcast, B2B Software, IT and Technology. Thank you for being with us and see you next time. On January 13, we will host our first experience sales event live in Frankfurt. If you want to do your career for the best year in 2023, then this experience sales day is the right kickstart for you. On this explosive day, you will get to know the experience sales system and how you can increase your win rate and shorten your sales cycle. How you can really convince your product and really differentiate yourself from the competition. That is a day full of tactical insights, practical tips and live coaching. The focus on topics and insights is enormous and how you know that from us is simply no bullshit, but really deeper, usable content. We cover everything from pitches, from pitch argumentations, pitch structures, about discovery, sales cycle, development and shortening in C-level meetings, persuasion, decision framing, connectivity, opportunities to qualify, sales engagements to lead and how you make the outreach and much, much more. You have the opportunity to be coached live from me on stage, to ask questions from our know-how and our best practice, from the collaboration with over 250 sellers and sales teams from the K&U and Enterprise Sales in Dachau to profit. Our tickets are limited and if you want to be there, then book your ticket now with the link in the podcast description. And we'll see each other in Frankfurt on January 13th and change the software and IT sales together.